confused about what this argument is. how do you do it at the scene or two at the station so you have enough time to get the warrant by putting it on airplane mode. >> you don't necessarily have time to do it on the scene. i believe that's true. ..

the attorneys present particular problems. >> does that present the exact home every cell phone has? >> i was referring to the privilege rule. the court looked at it. the lower courts that have looked at the questions that if a person is arrested holding a briefcase they can open the briefcase whether it is locked or unlocked and look at its contents. they can't just go through for interest. they can look for evidence that is relevant to comal activity and they do that in a way that is minimally invasive of privacy not just for the sake of doing it.

>> some cell phones have tax returns so you would have a return on the jaywalker looking for a crime. >> if the court is looking for a rule that limits the ability of the police to search cell phones because cell phones are different from paper items in some respects but not all. the most reasonable rule to apply to be one that says when there is a reason to believe that there is evidence of the crime of the arrest on the phone the officers can look for that. when there is not they can't. you can imagine in every case they can look at everything so i will give you an example. someone is arrested for a gun

crime and now we are going to look at the things that might be related to a gun crime. so whether he is for guns, whether he's done searches for gun stores his e-mails might say something about gun possession or gun purchase. the whole range of things. >> justice, i would acknowledge that fewer reasoning is correct in certain circumstances and for certain crimes. it wouldn't be the case for the crying or a bar fight or any other of the minor crimes who held the violations that are positive on the other side of vacation for respondents or the narrow approach to solve the searches. but i do think a couple of things are worth thinking about. in a serious offense a drug offense if the police didn't get

a warrant they would be looking at the same thing because the only way to execute the line on the phone would be to engage in at least a cursory search of everything on the phone to see if it was related. >> but the whole idea of the war and is that the magistrate felt you you can look at those thin things. i would go so far to say that the magistrate can't narrow the warrant in any way that is appropriate. the fundamental point and i tried to serve there is a different balance in a moment of the arrest. at that moment the society interests are at their apogee locating evidence related to the arrest and apprehending the related suspects. and the suspect has a highly

reduced privacy interest. >> four minutes mr. fisher. >> i think i heard four or five different proposed rules that i want to go through one each at a time. the states talked about a fundamentally different rule. and i think that the justices have already figured out 17 and 18 which would sleep in virtually everything on the phone to the extent that it wouldn't you have a really difficult struggle on a case-by-case basis to answer the difficult question whether any particular have fundamentally different information than existed in the non- digital world. i also heard a suggestion that if a smartphone is on to somebody it's different than if it is sitting next to them. them. that isn't correct if what the government says about the passwords satisfies them. remember it gives the authority without a warrant anything in the area if there is a

distraction argument. so, the person that is arrested sitting in hi at his desk at the office into reaching area from his computer would be open to a full search under the government's rule. they need to present the password from kicking and. the first thing to make sure is that you understand those can apply only at the scene. when the officer takes the phone back to the police station two hours later and searches through. all the arguments whether an officer needs to be able at the scene can be left for another case and i think justice breyer is right that is the best of the government has shown is that there may be certain tightly limited circumstances were exigent circumstances would apply. i want t to say a few things on the password protection which we didn't talk about in the next

argument. how it would be for the smart phone to seize the wireless and for an officer not to be able to address the concern at the scene that it might walk later and it's also worth noting in the footnotes that we attached the government is arguing in the lower courts that even if it is locked at the fifth amendment doesn't give the person the opportunity to refuse to diverge the password and the warrant. so it doesn't have any plight if they win the argument that it's making in the lower courts. justice kennedy committee suggested the possibility distinguishing between serious and long series. with all due respect the court's decisions in robinson and atwater was squarely presented and precludes the kind of determination for all the reasons the government argued in those cases. and then finally, justice william u. mentioned a couple of times the principle as applied to the case evidence you think you might find on the phone.

there are two profound problems. first is the court recognized you need to be sure to protect the amount of privacy people had at the funding. the fact somebody might incidentally have an item on the person even in the rare case a diary or address book people are stored in the home and they are sacrosanct and arrest and that is what the threats around history says it cannot be the occasion to do that kind of search. justicejustice, you are right iu run the test through the world of crime the government might be able to identify the crying here or there that would be difficult to make an argument about. as we pointed out in the brief dui, lettering the person can make a fairly convincing argument sometimes that evidence on the phone would be a relevant. so that brings me where i want

to and which is understanding what the rule of the government would do in terms of just ordinary police work. remember the case starts with a catchy beat the traffic stop license plate in its everyday police force traffic stops are at the beginning of the criminal investigation and a leverage point into searches. if you adopt a rule that says if you can make an argument that evidence on the phone would be relevant to the crying of a rest you may have an e-mail from the dmv telling you you better come in and renew. if that opens up every american's life to the police department not just at the scene but later at the station house and downloaded into the computer forever i think yo you'll fundamentally changed the nature of the privacy of the founding of the republic that we eventually ever since. >> thank you counsel. the case is submitted.

president obama takes part in the town hall events in minnetonka minnesota. we will bring its lif its life g at 3:10 p.m. on c-span three.

we be leave all men are created equal -- many are denied equal treatment. we be leave at all men have certain unalienable rights. yes many do not enjoy those rights. we be leave that all men are entitled to the blessings of 30 yes millions are being deprived of those things. not because of their own failures, but because of the color of their skin. the reasons are deeply embedded in history tradition and the nature of man. we understand without rancor or hatred how this all happened.

but it cannot continue. the constitution and foundation of the republic. the principles of freedom and the morality forbids it. and look at the fda regulations. and you have the opportunity to share your thoughts.

>> i think this whole thing is nothing more than it is all about the money. i think that it is on creative, i think it is nasty. it's like pornography in my mind. let's depict between the one and the other. i don't know how you go to sleep at night. i don't know what gets you to work in the morning. except the color of dollars. i never said anything like that before, but never in my 30 years on this committee have i ever heard testimony such as giving by you. what i want to do is send you to the middle east because you say

he can get people together and settle that anything you can talk to us more realistically. but for you, you are what is wrong with this country. and the profit motive is good. but only if it is aimed at something for the general benefit of the public. and that can be stretched a little bit. because the public likes to be entertained. i can't say professional basketball is necessary but people like it, so let's go ahead. it's a matter of the dollars come at a 256% increase in two years in advertising. and then you say it's only for the adults. when everything else has come out of this hearing says

otherwise. i think it is dreadful. >> in the series of capitol hill hearings on the form of unaccompanied migrant children from central america crossing into the us-mexico border. witnesses from the department of homeland security and immigration and customs enforcement testify at this three-hour hearing. >> without objection the chair authorizes the committee at any time. we welcome everyone to this afternoon's hearing on

administration made disasters. the south texas border of an accompanied alien minors and i will begin by recognizing myself for an opening statement. there is a tsunami hitting the nation's southern border. unaccompanied minors and struggling with minors are arriving in unprecedented numbers. central american minors and teenagers are making a perilous journey through mexico and then walking miles across a hospital environment assisted by smugglers and coming to the united states in violation of the law. according to the deputy border patrol chief who will testify today the department of homeland security expects to every and more than 90,000 unaccompanied minors on the border this year. the estimated number of you atms operated in 2014 represents a 1381% increase since 2011 while the projected number of 142,000

apprehensions in 2015 represent a 2232% increase. it is not just a uam. adults bringing along liners are also coming. since 2011, the member apprehended individuals comprising family unit has increased from 13,642,000 for this here as of june 16. taking into account just half of this year we have seen a 143% increase in families apprehended at the border since 2012 created the administration claims that these aliens are coming to the u.s. based upon generalized violence strikes, conflict and discord in their home countries. it's true they play a role in central america and coming to the u.s. illegally. seeing strife and economically disadvantaged countries along with seeing impoverished women and children showing up at the

nation's doorstep arouses the deepest sympathies. however the factors causing the recent unprecedented surge are very different than those claimed by the administration. a 28, 2014 rio grande valley sector intelligence report tells a story that is strikingly different than the claims humanitarian crisis the administration paints as responsible. the report summarized interviews conducted with apprehended central american minors and quite frankly it paints a very different picture of the situation. according to the report when these individuals were asked why they made the journey to the united states, approximately 95% indicated that the main reason was to take advantage of the new u.s. law that grants pass or permit research to being issued by the government to when men traveling with minors and unaccompanied alien minors.

while no law has been enacted, the truth is that this administration has altered immigration enforcement was his. the timing o of change in the policies correlates closely with the steep uptake of individuals showing up at the border. apparently the word has gotten out of that once encountered by the border patrol agents and process thanks to this administration's enforcement policies, one will likely never be removed. the word has spread to the americas and beyond that the obama administration has taken unprecedented most likely unconstitutional steps in order to shut down the enforcement of the immigration law for millions of criminal aliens not considered a high enough priority is especially minors and adults with minors. the world seems to know the dhs refuses to enforce the law under those with prosecutorial discretion. the beneficiaries of the policies he can include many

thousands of aliens who've been arrested by state and local law enforcement war criminals but in proceedings of the dhs has left back out onto the street. now the beneficiaries include the minors and families who continue to arrive at the border and the administration ushers in 100% reverse escorts into the interior of the united states. most are ultimately released and often into the hands of those that paid smugglers to bring them here in the first place. in addition to simply not pursue the removable aliens, the dhs has been granting hundreds of these individual individuals administratively ossetians and work authorizations. the dhs does this under many invoking doctrines with a satiric names such as the third action and parole in place. the net effect of the policies have been described by former ices king director. if you are a run of the male

immigrants come your odds of getting deported or close to zero. apparently those arriving at the border now know this. indeed, the director of the migrant shelter in mexico told news outlets that childre but cd families are encouraged to cross into the u.s. illegally because they think they will be given amnesty. she said i remember a little boy that was 9-years-old and i asked if he was going to go meet someone and he told me no, i'm just going to hand myself over because i hear they help kids. in addition, like so many others across central america, rot in a 13-year-old said his mother deleted the obama administration quietly changed its policy regarding unaccompanied minors and if he needed a cross he would have a better shot at staying. in the meantime, central american media touts an open door to the u.s. for minors and

families. based on information the committee has received, it seems the administration has known about this problem for some time. reverend richard who serves on the white house immigration advisory panel agrees. he stated that officials gave the fast-growing migration crisis from the media because they are trying to pass an unpopular read write." he indicated that the administration's priority to get a senate bill passed. they didn't do anything public about it or want to tell anyone about it and now they are at a stage where they are feeling we have to figure out a strategy. they conclude that's what the administration is afraid of the border will derail any reform of the immigration law. unfortunately, the statements show the administration has made a fundamental miscalculation. the failure to secure the borders, mitigate threats to

national security or to enforce immigration law only undermines congress ability to reform our immigration law. it's easy to predict people in south and central america as well as in mexico would recognize the veiled invitation from the administration to send their children and families to the united states with little chance of deportation. these individuals know the administration's policy of not -- tragic because the journey of the administration encourages is so dangerous and results in death, disease and harm into so many minors along the way. it's often said that while rome burned unfortunately it seems that while the borders and upload rate i look forward to

finding out from the witnesses today what if anything the obama administration plans to do about this crisis and what solutions could work to end it. i would like to thank all of the witnesses many of whom are career law-enforcement professionals for taking the time to testify. >> now i would like to recognize the members of the committee from michigan for his opening statement. >> i had hoped we could have a balanced discussion about the root causes of the humanitarian crisis we are seeing play out along the southwest border and also begin to identify solutions to this pressing issue. i now see that some have already made their conclusions before even hearing the facts. i'm very disappointed about the

conclusions and surmises that have been made in the opening statement and the title of the hearing seems to say at all in administration may disaster the south texas border surge of unaccompanied minors. i couldn't more disagree with a misleading title such as this and supplanted by the arguments just presented. my concern is not just this title attacks the president of the united states or that it presupposes a conclusion without substantial evidence, but that it also dangerously mischaracterizes the issue at

hand. the increased and unaccompanied children apprehended along the southwest border in recent years is evidence of a humanitarian crisis unfolding in our region. the facts simply do not support the claim that this administrations actions have somehow led to the current situation. the dramatic flow of children across the southwest borders is a symptom of the real humanitarian crisis that's going on every day in the el salvador and guatemala where most of these children come from. and in each of these countries, the level of violence is skyhigh, and the ability of the government to protect its most

vulnerable citizens is terribly low. honduras has the highest murder rate in the world and they have had it for the last four years. el salvador and guatemala are close behind act fourth and fifth. the state department even warns american citizens not to travel to honduras and el salvador because the level of crime and violence is critically high. and as a result, many people are fleeing to ask for protection abroad. it's important to note they are not just sitting to the united states. since 2008, mexico, nicaragua, panama on and coaster rica have seen a 712% increase in bus

highland claim from these three countries alone. the number of children we are seeing is sure to test our resolve with respect to the rule of law. and our obligation to protect people fleeing persecution and that is a test that we must not fail. i can't think of how we have responded when tens of thousands of haitians to two disease in small boats and dangerous conditions after the coup that ousted the president. coast guard vessels interdicted many of the boats and returned people to face persecution without a fair asylum hearing. let's not repeat the mistakes of the past.

although the current situation poses a greater challenge to our department of homeland security, health and human services and justice, we must rise to meet the challenges and to demonstrate our continuing commitment to the rule of law and the protection of refugees. but us not forget the urgent issue in the background. we need to fix our broken immigration system. it has now been a year since the senate passed bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform that would bring much-needed relief to american families, businesses and communities. and with that, i just want to conclude by pointing out since

the senate passed bill the house version hr 15. the congressional budget office has reported that these bills would jumpstart our economy and decrease the deficit by $900 billion over 20 years and public sentiment remains decidedly in favor of comprehensive reform. but here at the end of june and another work period, we have done nothing to achieve the needed reform so what are we waiting for? i am ready to take a vote now and if that happens, i am willing to believe that a

majority of members of the house of representatives would vote right along with me. but leadership in the house still blames there and actions on the president saying that you can't be trusted. we need to fix our broken immigration system. thousands of children are flooding across the border. humanitarian crises right in our backyard. these are difficult issues that cannot be explained, let alone solved by this simplistic accusations and recycling of political sound bites. i'm very discouraged but i will not stop. now is the time to lay down the legislative farmer in the

political theatrics and do something simple because it is the right thing to do. and if the house fails to act i support the president doing what he can in the current law to protect the broken system. and i conclude my remarks on that note. >> we will now turn to the chairman of the subcommittee on immigration border security. think you mr. chairman and. it is my pleasure to yield to the chairman of the national security subcommittee on oversight government reform and we've done great work on this issue as well as mr. chairman fraud and the asylum process. the gentleman from utah. >> from the onset the obama administration has made it clear that the classes within to be

deported if within the interior of the united states. this created an atmosphere conducive. sometime in the family members entering from the south of the border into the united states. in order to deal with the problem the administration announced that the united states integrations customs enforcement will expand the number of family detention beds and a trial attorneys and judges to the border to address the sudden surge of children, teenagers and families to enter the united states illegally. unfortunately the plan to deal with the crisis the border created by its failure to enforce the law really will do little to solve the problem itself created. the obama administration has weakened it and all the administration plans to deal with the problem will assure the

claims get adjudicated quickly and minors and adults will be put on the fact track two remaining in the united states permanently and legally and with access to the full array of taxpayer provided benefits. under the current law many of not a majority of them are eligible for immigration release. many of the miners arriving at the border are claiming asylum or credible persecution. these minors can apply for it will likely receive asylum because it is as easy to save the system. they maintained a department of homeland security report that shows at least 70% -- 70% of the cases contain proven or possible fraud. the rates of the asylum applications are skyrocketing and the former members of the violent gangs who were once encountered are getting asylum. last the aliens who were denied asylum are rarely successfully

deported. they will first apply with a uscis officer and approval rates by the officers of increased from 20% to 2007 to 46%. approval rates have increased from 51% in 2007 to 74% in 2013. combining these two bytes of the apple the vast majority to affirmatively seek asylum are now successful in their claims. this isn't to take into account the appeals to the immigration appeal or federal court. furthermore family called a long can clean a credible persecution to seek a hearing before the immigration judge and received work authorization while their case is pending. over the past several years several claims have been granted

under the obama administration. currently the data provided by the department of homeland security shows u.s. citizenship and immigration services makes positive credible affair findings in 92% of all cases. the claims have increased 586% from the year 2007 to 2013. as the word has gotten out of the rubberstamping of the applications. this is more troubling because we have received reports that drug cartel members are abusing the process to bypass regular immigration checks to get into the country. they expanded the drug smuggling operations into the united states. once here are some of the cartel was engaged in the same feuds that caused them to flee mexico and others in the first place. it also details the squad members that enter the united states after claiming they feared violence they fell out of there and players.

the two families involved in drug trafficking came to the united states claiming the credible fear persecution and begin targeting eac each other e they were here. it's outrageous that they are gaming the system by claiming they have a credible fear of persecution and when often they did the perpetrators of the violence themselves. the administration wants to fix the problem they should enforce the laws already on the books, reverse policies that created the mess in the first place and work with congress on the targeted legislative fixes. i think that your man and yield back. >> we now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee on immigration border security, the gentleman from california for her opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman. today's hearing is on a serious topic and it deserves a serious discussion. unfortunately the title and administration made disaster looks like some have made up

their mind and may indeed end and to turn this into yet another partisan attack on the administration. the facts don't support that attack and i hope we will be able to give the topic the consideration that it usurps. there is indeed a spike in the number of unaccompanied minor children apprehended along the southwest bordesouthwest bordere increase actually began in 2011. the rate of apprehension has increased sharply. we may apprehend as many as 90,000 kids in the current fiscal year and they have overwhelmed our resources to cope with them. in the past, the majority of kids coming alone came from mexico and they tended to be older children, 16, 17-year-old boys. that is no longer the case. the current spike is driven almost entirely by children in free countries and we have a

chart you can see it is starkly laid out. the source of these children coming into the united states or el salvador, guatemala and honduras. the current population has changed as well. we don't have that on the charge that it contains lots more girls, lots more younger children dan has come in the past. and it has been pointed out and i think all of us will agree. they could be killed, raped, maimed, become victims of trafficking, extorted. many of them know the dangers they will face so we need to understand what it is, knowing what they face that is causing them to come in anyway. what is so horrible that is going on in those countries that you would face potentially being trafficked or reefed in order to get here.

now, the un refugee agency has taken a look at what is going on in the countries and they report a spike in violence by transnational criminal organizations. they maintained people including children who were killed and dismembered elsewhere in the honduras the hous house reportst murders of children are on the rise and according to the state department's 2013 countries report on guatemala, many hundreds of women and girls are killed each year. the report notes and i quote that in most killings sexual assault, torture and mutilation are evident. but only one or 2% of these resulted in conviction. this was a regional catastrophe in the united states and it is

not the only country experiencing an increase in the number of young people fleeing the countr countries seeking protection. and mr. conyers mentioned this but it's been hundred 12% increase in asylum applications in mexico, costa rica, panama and belize. it's significant that there is no measurable increase of any sort from children coming from these other countries. look at nicaragua. there is no spike and at nicaragua is a country that is who were then honduras, guatemala and el salvador. there is no spike from the other countries so if the majority is correct that there is a change in policy which there has not been why only from three countries? why not from the poorer country of nicaragua?

i think also it's probably the most experienced in dealing with refugee matters interviewed 404 of these unaccompanied children and they found out 58% of them spoke of serious harm. last year we had a hearing on so-called asylum reviews and the chair man asked whether it was a situation things have gotten more dangerous in recent years and i think it is obvious when it comes to el salvador and guatemala and honduras it appears to be spv unfortunately some have tried to politicize the situation. some have argued the administration ithat theadminise for the crisis and indeed the title of the hearing is conclusion very in that respect.

put aside the fact the obama administration sent records in terms of deportations. i think we need to know that nothing has changed in terms of the law. looking back to 1997 court ordered settlement first established that children should be released into the least restrictive environment because at the time children were being housed in prison with adults and we found that into the courts found that unconstitutional and wrong. subsequent to that our former colleague of texas introduced the homeland security act of 2002 which codified the court settlement and said that unaccompanied children must be released into the least restrictive environment and of course by william wilberforce protection act that we all

championed here cosponsored by mr. berman our former colleague and fortenberry and chris smith and also signed into law by george bush further codified about ruling that we are not going to put little children into shackles. it's true the government isn't using expedited removal to deport these children without an immigration hearing. why is that? because the law prohibited. they are following the law saysw says they must do and this was the law signed in when george bush was president and the republican congress. the regional commander terry and traces requires a regional solution and i am hopeful that some of the steps announced last week to encourage the demand that governments of guatemala, el salvador and honduras to take

action to prevent the violence against these children will have an effect. i am also going to be looking closely at how we detained families as the chairman is correct we also have to families with young children and as we know we are opening up additional facilities for the families to be housed. i'm sure the chair man will recall from the refugee act of 1980 as well as the illegal immigration reform and responsibility act of 1996 offered by the congressman smith of texas. it is required each case be reviewed closely on a case-by-case basis and that no person or child have torture abroad. this humanitarian crisis poses an enormous challenge and it will not help us to face the challenge by suggesting that when we follow the law we are

somehow making up a new policy. in fact we are following the policies that guide us treating skill db2 children since 1997 and i hope we will not play partisan games with this dangerous situation and i yield back. >> all the other opening statements will be made a perfect record. we welcome our distinguished panel today. if you would all rise i would begin by swearing in the witnesses. do you swear the testimony you are about to get shelby the truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? god? let the record reflect all of the witnesses responded in the affirmative. i will begin by introducing the witnesses. thomas is the executive associate director for enforcement and removal operations for immigration customs enforcement in the department of homeland security. in this role he has direct

oversight of critical programs and operations to identify arrest, detain and remove aliens from the united states. he is a 30 year veteran of law enforcement and has 27 years of immigration enforcement experience with a bachelors degree in criminal justice he began his career as a police officer in new york. ronald is the deputy chief of the u.s. border patrol and as a border patrol chief operating officer he is responsible for the daily operations of the border patrol and routinely reports to assist the border patrol in the planning and directing nationwide enforcement and administrative operations. the deputy chief entered the border patrol in 1985 at the station where he also served as a supervisory border patrol agent and has been with border patrol since. mr. crane serves as the

president of the national immigration customs enforcement council 118 american federation of government employees. he's worked as an enforcement agent for the u.s. immigration and customs enforcement at the u.s. department of homeland security since 2003 prior to the service he served for 11 years in the united states marine corps. mr. brandon is the border patrol agent and serves as the president of the national border patrol council representing one and 17,000 border patrol agents and support staff. beginning in 1997 he brings with him more than 17 years of experience as a border patrol agent and she was first elected president of the local in california and in 2001 was later elected president of the largest local in tucson arizona in 2010 where he served a two-year term. he's currently a border patrol agent stationed in maine.

reverend was named the sixth bishop by his holiness camp david coke coke francis. he began his formation in 1972 at the holy trinity seminary in irving texas and was ordained for the diocese of dallas may 171980. he holds a bachelors of arts degree in philosophy and a masters degree in divinity and masters of arts degree in theology from dallas with 1985 the bishop received a masters degree in studies from st. john's and adversity in collegeville minnesota. we welcome all of you and i would ask you summarize the testimony in five minutes or less to help you stay in that time there is a timing light on the table and when it switches from green to yellow you have one minute to conclude your testimony and when the light turns red fo through time is up.

we welcome you again. we are glad to have you with us. >> chairman, ranking member of the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the u.s. immigration customs enforcement role in addressing the influx of unaccompanied children in the nation's southwest border mainly the rio grande valley. through the government we are determined to address the situation in a manner that is comprehensive, coordinated and humane. may 12 th 12 secretary hadi levr condition of readiness which was the first step to bring the interagency resource to their. they directed secretary johnson to the group to ensure maximum coordination was engaged. this includes dhs and all of its components into the department othe departmentof health and hu, defense, justice and state.

secretary johnson has designated federal emergency management agency administrator to serve as a federal official for the u.s. government effort. when cbp encounters a child in the united states cbp begins the interview process to determine the status, review available documentation and to determine if they are accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. under the trafficking victims protection reauthorization act of 2008 we refer to the unaccompanied child is a national candidate in mexico may be permitted to withdraw his application for the mission and the repatriated immediately. however this isn't true for the majority in the rio grande valley because almost all of them are in guatemala and el salvador and according they are required to be processed to see the immigration judge. upon determining that unaccompanied child doesn't have the option to withdraw his or her application for the

admissions cbp notifies the department of health and human services office of refugee resettlement. once they notify them that a shelter is available pursuant to the requirements of the law it is the legal responsibility to quickly and safely transport the unaccompanied child from the custody to a shelter for sympathy. ice transports them over ground, commercial air and charter flights. to speed up the transportation and unaccompanied minors in the shelters we have additional aircraft planes and closely work with the airport authority to ao have been escorting officers like houston rather than making a trip to the valley where both flights were limited. they are also using reapers escorting for unaccompanied children. the officers from other parts of the country are assisting and supporting the transportation

needs in the valley. this allows more escorting capabilities, prevents officers in the valley from breakin valle overtime salary cap and offers relief to those officers that are working at an incredible pace. all 24 field offices have primary backup coordinators each of whom receive annual ice specialist training with respect to the unix vulnerabilities of children. finally, i see has detailed more than 91 officers to the rio grande valley to assist with increased transportation needs. in conclusion with the committee's suppor support, icg continues to work closely to ensure we have the resources we need to address the situation. together with unified coordination groups we are leveraging all available transportation capabilities and resources to the needs of the children. turning goodlatte, ranging member conyers and members of the committee i thank you for this opportunity to testify about the role in managing the children and i look forward to answering your questions.

>> welcome. >> chairman goodlatte, ranking member conyers and members of the kennedy figure for the opportunity to appear before before the border protection addressing the influx of the children along the southwest border. for the past three years the rio grande area valley in texas experienced its enterprise including increased an ounce of unaccompanied children and family units mostly from el salvador, guatemala and honduras. the recent dramatic increase in the children is difficult and challenging on many levels. today this fiscal year the number of children encountered is over 51,000 they have more than doubled as compared to that in the entire previous year. today there are over 2,700 cbp custody of the border patrol rio grande valley has its actions in south texas campaign criminal targets and ellis at networks using residents detailed sources

they have augmented the rio grande valley personnel with additional experienced agents from across the southwest border. allowing the flexibility needed to gain more interdiction and effectiveness and situational awareness on its footprint in the targeted zones of operation. peace children are especially vulnerable in the population while in cbp custody unaccompanied children are separated from adults and provided drinking water food and medical assistance. while the basic necessities and facilities may be adequate for the short term stay cbp facilities were not designed or services were not in place to accommodate large volumes for an extended period of time. we are working closely with dhs and other partners to search resources, personnel facilities, equipment and supplies to quicklquickly, safely and humany screen then process children in accordance with trafficking

victims protection reauthorization act and support the transfer to the department of health and human services office of resettlement. we are working with icd, hhs and other partners to improve conditions through the utilization of the facilities such as the placement center in arizona to detain a stage the childrestage thechildren that ae transferred to the custody. the border patrol affairs of established medical units at the busiest stations and conducting public health screenings with assistance from the coast guard in the preparedness response. for all incoming adult fema has deployed the coordinators to assist with several teams to the rio grande valley and the placement center to assist the care and recreation of the children attending a transfer to hhs. unless the work that fema has done using the national response framework and their initial coordination. the team has greatly improved the conditions for the work force children to.

assistance from nongovernmental organizations has also had a big impact on the efforts to address the need of the children and the support into improvements to those that have been and are the caretakers in whatever way is needed including mixing formula to get a cbp employees are committed to making sure they are treated in the most respectful way possible under the present circumstance agents have stepped up to work the problem with compassion, dedication and professionalism and they are to be commended. it continues to work closely around the clock to address the situation all the while protecting america by securing the border, detecting and interdicting those across the border in violation of. thank you for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to your questions.

>> mr. crane, welcome. hispanic drinking member and distinguished members of the committee before congress discusses the changes to u.s. immigration law regarding the legalization it must first ensure the appropriate safeguards are in place. that is the lesson that must be learned from the humanitarian crisis taking place on the border. reports from officers in texas corroborates the intelligence reports indicating that the majority of individuals illegally entering the united states are motivated more by rumors of amnesty than the situation in the respective custody is. many have confirmed this in their own interviews. if the administration continues current policies it can expect prices to escalate and other problems to potentially emerge. desperate people in impoverished countries don't read of the laws or policies and do not pay any

heed to cut off dates. continued talk in the united states on legalization without appropriate safeguards first in place will continue to draw millions like a magnet for southern order. the most humane thing we can do to deter the crisis like this one is to consistently enforce the immigration law. since the crisis started over a year ago, employees in the valley has been overwhelmed. the leadership attempted to address it to do to the limited manpower available that have little effect. as a result the employees in the rio grande valley worked day and night since the early stages of the situation and has the severity increases however other offices and facilities throughout the nation are now assisting and experiencing similar workloads. by way of charter flights and commercial aircraft, officers were transferring hundreds of children, family units and other old aliens out of the valley every day to the point across

the nation. without officers performing the critical border security mission for the last year border operations in the rio grande valley would have quickly broken down. ..

this crisis is placing a tremendous strain on er zero and its limited resources nationwide. i.c.e. is transfer some officers to the border and temporarily detailed others. as ero's rolled broadens er boat is experiencing manpower losses in its offices and transports nationwide. as one example in a detention center established this week in new mexico will be manned by i.c.e. officers from other locations within the u.s.. fugitive operations teams in some areas have been shut down with officers reassigned to process and transport children and family units. officers and other programs such as the criminal alien program for secure communities likewise are pulled daily from their public safety missions. i.c.e. ero's commissions to include his public safety missions are being impacted. since 9/11 the border could --

patrol has tripled in size about ero has become smaller. few are aware addition to its enforcement mission br zero is responsible for the retention transportation and removal of aliens apprehended by the border patrol baking er of a critical border security asset and asset long overlooked and severely undermanned as it struggles to perform its mission of supporting a border patrol that has tripled in size. in closing i know border security is important to have a member of congress and i hope my test might today regarding i.c.e. er zero assist congress in addressing the problem in kerfye the critical role i.c.e. ero place in border security. ero cannot continue in its current state drastically understaffed with morale plummeting to record lows. congressman carter and house appropriations committee have recommended funding for single

officer position at er zero in place at the border patrol. doing so the appropriations committee has taken important first step in improving law enforcement effectiveness of the er zero. we greatly appreciate their assistance. thank you and that concludes my testimony. >> thank you mr. crane. mr. judd welcome. >> chairman goodlatte and members of the committee. i testify before you today from a law enforcement perspective. pretty agents on the board of the latest surge in unaccompanied minors is not a surprise. this crisis is the culmination of a variety of factors including but not limited to the first to catch and release program. this program is bad policy and encourages people from countries other than mexico to enter the united states illegally. in most cases individuals entering the u.s. illegally know they will be released if apprehended.

they were so there's no one is afraid of breaking law. currently my understanding is 90% of the unaccompanied minors are being placed with either a family member or close family friend many of them are in this country illegally themselves. although unaccompanied minors are subject to deportation through their mobile process we have to be awesome with ourselves. most will never honor the notice to appear in court and face deportation. they failed to appear and planned into the community. second undersea quest race in manpower was decreased by 5%. they realize the impact of this decrease means we effectively lost about 1100 agents. this manpower decreased did not go unnoticed for those trying to enter the country illegally. it was a good time to try. third and possibly the most important organized crime's ability to adapt to changes in manpower policies affecting the borders of the united states. our borders are constantly under attack by drug cartels in this latest surge of unaccompanied

minors is one example. these cartels have an intelligent intelligent network and are skilled at exploiting our weaknesses. it is no coincidence that many the same cartels responsible for the violence in central america are also making hundreds of millions of dollars smuggling unaccompanied minors across the border. in fact the current surge has made all aspects of smuggling easier by tying up virtual agents with large groups of unaccompanied minors. if the efficiency and safety where the goal it would make more sense for the cartels to cross unaccompanied minors into the usb ports of entry by way of the u.s. customs service. that way they can manage uncertainties and avoid risking harsh terrain and inhospitable weather while gaining entry into united states. instead the cartels purposefully crossed to tie a border patrol manpower creating holes in our enforcement facilitating their other what lines of business such as drug smuggling and the smuggling of known criminals into united states.

40% is being pulled from the field to perform duties caring for those in our customer -- custody. the question i know many are asking is when he should do to address this crisis in and the following actions will improve our nation's response. and our catch and release policy. we need to detain unaccompanied minors until their cases are promptly adjudicated. as long as we continue to release unaccompanied minors to family and friends the problem will not only continue but grow exponentially. organized crime will continue to exploit their weaknesses and take advantage of policy. we know from experience that once released into the community the chance of minors being deported after they failed to appear in court is small. we need to follow through enforcing the laws of this nations are breaking the law carries consequences.

do not grant special status. this is a corollary to the catch and release program. we need to be crystal clear that unaccompanied minors and their families will not be rewarded for breaking the law through special or legal status after being arrested. when we need to knowledge our immigration policies at the -- over the last 30 years have been at best inconsistent. if we are to stop this latest crisis with unaccompanied minors rehab to change the cost benefit analysis for those that create holes in border security. congressman chase at introduced the pay reform act that were stored manpower on the border while also saving the american taxpayer millions of dollars. this legislation is groundbreaking and will increase the efficiency and effectiveness of agency while saving money. several members of this committee are co-sponsors and i want to thank you for your support. and to strengthen interior enforcement. we discuss discussed how lack of consequences for breaking the law has encouraged a new flood

of illegal immigration. by the same token a lack of sconce abscesses for those who successfully enter our country without being detected is encouraging illegal immigration. where do you have laws on the books that if enforced will stem the flow however these laws so they work if they are consistently enforced. this is a difficult issue is no single solution but i believe a fix is well within our reach. the humanitarian crisis is real and our agents are fully aware of the hardship many children have endured in search of a better life are to be their family. many agents try to contribute in small ways. some spend our money to buy toys and diapers and other spent time with minors in what is undoubtedly a confusing environment for them. in the end the current crisis needs to be addressed and through adequate manpower at the border we must change the current cost benefit analysis for illegal immigration so the rewards and incentives are less appealing. again i want to thank you for

the opportunity to testify and they look forward to answering any questions. >> thank you mr. judd. >> good afternoon. thank you chairman goodlatte and ranking member conyers for the opportunity to testify on unaccompanied children entering united states. having called to serve the church as a bishop, bishop of the diocese on the border. my challenge is to the best of my ability and under the guidance of the church to apply the gospel teaching of jesus to present-day situations. in visiting with these children in my diocese and their home countries by witness the human consequences of the violence they have endured. this challenge tests the moral character of our nation. it is a test we must not fail. our other nations are watching how we handle this matter. our moral authority of the world is at stake.

let me say upfront that the u.s. catholic bishops support the right of our nation to control her borders and to enforce the rule of law. my -- migration to our country should be orderly, safe and controlled, consistent with the common good. this is why the u.s. bishops have supported the reform of our immigration system so that the rule of law can be restored in a humanitarian manner. we hope that they house will understand this colon consider immigration reform as soon as possible. in our view mr. chairman the current challenge we are facing is driven primarily by factors in central america and mexico. most specifically the rise of violence against children fomented by organized criminal networks including drug cartels. they act with impunity threatening families and coercing children to join their

membership or face violence and even death. there are more young children arriving. many who are young girls 13 or younger. while there are a variety of ongoing push factors mr. chairman including poverty and family reunification violence is the strongest. otherwise it is unlikely we would see such large numbers of unaccompanied children on our doorstep. over the long-term mr. chairman there must be a concerted effort to address the root causes of this exodus specifically the rampant violence in the region. as part of this effort you made reintegration practices and prevention programs would complement anti-violence. for the short-term response we recommend the following rate of unaccompanied children should be expeditiously placed in child friendly shelters and not

warehoused in cbp border facilities. families should not be detained in restrictive settings but placed an alternative community settings. their legal proceeding should not be short-circuited and undermined due process. unaccompanied children should be appointed counsel so they can navigate our complex legal process. posts relief services including case management support should be provided to children placed with families and in foster care both for their safety and to assure they appear at their legal proceedings. sufficient funding should be provided to care for these children so that federal agencies do not have to raid of their budgets such as the refugee budget. pastoral services should be provided to these children and families including visitation by priests ministers and other religious. mr. chairman with your permission i would like to replace one story of why

children are fleeing their home. in november i lead a delegation of u.s. conference of catholic bishops to visit el salvador and honduras or ramallah and mexico to look at this phenomenon. we met many children who told us their stories. at the center for detainee children in mexico we met two boys ages 15 and 17 who were clean-cut and respectful. they had recently arrived from san pedro's honduras a city with the highest murder rate in the world, higher than kabul afghanistan or damascus syria. organized crime members have attempted to recruit them and told them that they and their families would be killed if they did not cooperate. the families quickly insisted they leave and flee to safety. now as they waited for repatriation to honduras they told us they would not return to their home city to what they

felt was certain death. they would try again. any risks they faced seemed like a better option than returning to their home. this story is typical of many of the children coming in. it also shows the decision space by parents and families who are unable to protect their children in their homes and communities. this was brought home to me by a mother of our delegation at her repatriation center in el salvador who told us i would rather my child die died on the journey seeking safety in the united states than on my front doorstep. in conclusion i ask you to consider the individual stories of these faux marble children migrants and open your minds and hearts to their plight while seeking meaningful and long-term solutions. i ask you to respond to the deeds of these children not to turn them away or ostracized them. americans are compassionate people. we should not turn our back on

these children. >> thank you mr. seitz. without objection i'd like to enter these documents five e-mails from i.c.e. enforcement regarding 100% reverse escorts unaccompanied minor runaway cases issuance of notices to appear and unaccompanied minor daily reporting broadcasts broadcast message. a fema senior leadership brief, a dhs unaccompanied minor fact sheet which shows dhs was aware of this problem in july 2011 and the four charts presented here today. >> mr. chairman i would like to ask unanimous consent -- mr. chairman tear right. i would like to ask unanimous consent to include and record the e-mail sent to apparently all members of congress and their staffs on a congressional tour to the temporary shelter at the navy base in ventura county to which it says no recording devices no questions no interaction and photos will be

provided by the government, no photography. >> without objection the e-mails will be part of the record. >> i would like to ask unanimous consent to place the following statement in the record. the statement from the first focus campaign for children, human rights first, lutheran immigration and refugee service, the national immigration forum, the u.s. committee for refugees and immigrants, the women's refugee commission, the episcopal church, the american immigration lawyers association and also the chart showing the various numbers of children coming from various central american countries. >> without objectional but documents will be made part of the record. >> first of all i'm glad that the first focus is put in the record and i would ask unanimous consent to include into the record a statement from the united nations unhcr our

nation's high commission for refugees children, ron and i would like to put into the record a letter to president barack obama that mentions that doctors should be ended. i ask unanimous consent. >> without objection the document shall be made part of the record i will begin the questioning and i will direct the first question to mr. patullo and mr. judd. yesterday white house press secretary josh earnest challenge republican stating that if they are truly concerned about border security we should back the comprehensive immigration reform package that passed the senate last year and a strongly supported by president obama. unfortunately the statements show the frustrations lack of understanding of this issue is failure to secure our borders mitigate threats to national security or enforce our

immigration laws only undermines congress's ability to reform our immigration laws. further the senate does not contain any provisions that address the problems in current law that would allow us to more effectively address the current surge at the southern border. we can align border patrol agents shoulder-to-shoulder the southern border and it would not matter due to this administrations policies. isn't the point of apprehending aliens to ensure they return to their home countries not provide them a golden ticket into the united states and i will start with you mr. vitiello and go to mr. judd. >> i'm not sure. >> isn't the point of your job of apprehending illegal aliens to ensure that they return to their home countries and not to provide them a golden ticket into the united states? >> it is the work of the border per troll to interdict people at points of entry yes. >> the question is asked why are they entering at the points of

entry. it would be a lot less dangerous. our job again if we line our border and were arresting these people and taking our manpower out of the field we are opening up holes for criminal cartels. that is what we are doing. >> evisceration so it's commitment to border security is irrelevant because the way the laws are written and because of the credible fear of persecution and asylum policies the more border patrol agents resent to the port of the more opportunities aliens have to turn themselves over to them so they can than be released into the country and the promise of appearing at an immigration court hearing years down the road. is that an accurate summary of the situation you're agents face? >> our agents are arresting these individuals and we turned them over and what happens to them from their, we are seeing what is happening from there but again from an important standpoint if we arrest them and

theory are letting them go we will continue to see more. >> let me ask you this. while 47,000 according to this chart unaccompanied alien minors have arrived in the first six months of this year is not just unaccompanied alien minors. adults taking a long minors are also coming. since 2011 the individuals comprising families has increased from 13,000 to 42,000 for this year as of june 16. taking into account his half of this year we have seen a 143% increase in families apprehended at the border since 2012. dhs dhs has less than 100 bits for family detention meaning these families are usually released. additionally family members of these youth who arrived earlier have received prosecutorial discretion and work authorization. to what extent do you think this is cause families to come to

united states in violation of the law and more appropriately i should direct that question to you mr. homan. the question is to what extent do you think the families who have arrived earlier may have received prosecutorial discretion work authorization has cause families to come to the united states in violation of the law? >> i can't speculate on why they are entering the country. you have heard of border patrol when subjects into the country and they are processing them. i only know what i've read. i haven't had direct contact with the aliens. >> when they do enter however they only have 100 beds for them. is that correct? >> 96 beds. >> 96 beds for this year 42,000 people. that is kind of cramped is it? >> i have 96 family that is all i have. >> mr. crane do you want to add

anything to that? >> i guess i would just say it's ridiculous. we don't have enough bed space to hold people we apprehend. >> mr. homan we understand you are career law enforcement official and we thank you for that. we are just trying to understand the operational realities associated poor policy decisions. part of the white house's mantra on this matter is that everyone is being put into removal proceedings yet as reported by "the new york times" this weekend that doesn't really mean much when some will wait years for their first court date. then there will be procedural moving and posturing that will last years even if the aliens show up before their court dates which many will not. by the time the removal orders issued all these individuals would be so low on the totem pole for removal that i.c.e. estate of priorities that they will never actually be under the

state of priorities of i.c.e. that they will never be removed. is that the case? >> i can tell you any unaccompanied child and family members are served with nta's and scheduled to be put in front of an immigration judge. it's years out. it could take two years or could take five years. >> that isn't true that i.c.e. has only been able to remove less than 2000 unaccompanied alien minors per year since 2011 as you are seeing this surge take place? >> yes, last year we went to 1800 beds as we look at the unaccompanied alien children via with an immigration court in the last five years 87% are still in proceedings and we have no final orders. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan,

mr. conyers. >> thank you. as we have listened to this story unfold, many including some of the witnesses today say that we could only stop the migration flow by changing cost-benefit analysis made by these children. i wanted to start off with you deputy chief vitiello and ask you this question. might it not be clear that the possibility of coming to this country is motivated by a huge fear of violence and death that

many of these children have in their home countries and as a matter of fact an attitude shared by frequently their parents as well. >> in the reporting i've seen there are several factors that the violence and conditions are among one of the top four, correct. >> and do you have any reason to believe that your organization and as well the enforcement and removal operations are all working in good faith with homeland security to do their best in terms of an incredibly

dangerous situation? >> yeah we have done quite a bit to improve conditions on the ground with fema's help and help from the coast guard office of health affairs. we are doing the best we can given the situations we face there. >> is there any assurances he will be giving any further assistance? >> we have gotten quite a bit of help from fema and the interagency coordination directorate under the national response framework continues to increase transportation both from i.c.e. and other sources increased attention capacity for i.c.e., increase placement or places for placement within hhs. >> my last question to you is our staff reports that the number of unaccompanied children

from nicaragua that have been apprehended by border patrol for this fiscal year is 164. does that comport with your records or knowledge? >> i don't have that number in front of me. i know nicaragua is small in comparison to the other three. >> thank you very much. bishop seitz how do we deal with a problem of these huge vulnerable populations from these three countries, el salvador guatemala and honduras, and have to recognize that from other countries around we don't have the same numbers. does that seem like some kind of a discrepancy and an anomaly

that we might want to inquire into? >> es mr. conyers. he began by asking how do we deal with an issue so large and of course my first answer is always a good deal of prayer would be a good idea. it's a huge challenge that we face. i think it's so interesting that when you look at the countries that nicaragua is involved in that number, the one thing that we can distinguish that is different in nicaragua from those other three is the presence of pervasive violence within those countries. and so certainly a part of the response has to be that we need to do what we can both church and our government to try and bolster the ability of these governments and communities to deal with the incredible levels

of violence, unimaginable levels of violence that these families are facing. >> i want to thank you for your comments and i also want to thank the entire panel for this seriousness in which they approach this incredible circumstance of young people that are risking their lives and are exposed to all kinds of unimaginable dangers in terms of the risk of trying to get to this country. my last observation and i will get to this very quick. do you have any information that our government could in any way be aiding or encouraging them to

come to this country collects. >> we will allow a brief answer. >> i don't have an answer right now. >> if they have answers they can speak them at any time. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from north carolina for five minutes. >> i thank the chairman and i think the panelists for being with us today. you may have touched on this mr. vitiello but if he did i want you to reiterate it. what consequences specifically would you like to see put in place to stem the flow of unlawful aliens entering into our country? >> i think the consequences matter. we were struggling with high levels of illegal migration in tucson. we did quite a bit of work to find out classifying people as they were being apprehended and placing them into some sort of proceedings whether administrative prosecution or

hearings for removal. >> were they juveniles for the most part collects. >> these were adults mostly from mexico. what we are working on together in the interagency specifically with the i.c.e.'s help is at increased attention for the family and we think this is going to make a difference in this problem. >> mr. vitiello i want to ask you this. we have been reading a lot about these unescorted juveniles coming to the border. when did this start? >> i think we have seen an increase over the last several years. this is much different than anything we have seen previously. typically in the last several years the high levels of traffic would have leveled off if you will in the spring and this year it has not. >> hasn't forced -- enforcement

been relaxed in enforcing our immigration laws? >> it has not. >> let me ask you this. i am not sure how i will phrase this but whoever can answer this. to what extent has there have been an increase in gang entry with members of gangs be they juveniles are adults? >> that is always a concern for law enforcement and the agents in the field ourselves. we haven't seen a marked increase in the number of people who are gang affiliated during this influx. >> i know mexico's gang invest invested. does anybody else want to put their own words into this? >> what we have to look at is we have to look at most of these unaccompanied minors coming across in getting themselves up.

the gang members don't give themselves up so what we are seeing is an influx in unaccompanied minors. they're very well could be an influx of gang members unfortunately because our workforce is so stressed and creating holes it's becoming easier to smuggle those that would do harm to our country through the holes we have created. again the question has to be asked why aren't they presenting themselves at the ports of entry going through dangerous desert terrain across rivers over fences. they could easily go to the ports of entry and present themselves there ask for asylum and received the exact same thing that they would be getting through going through the desert that they are not doing that. they are going through the desert and stressing our resources. >> i wonder if the parents of these juveniles were told, send your kids to america and we will

take care of them and they have relied upon this to their detriment. >> i am sure that some folks, the ones who bring them across have been building up that possibility is one question about that. again from what we have seen and heard the main reason that they are deciding to leave and still face a tremendous dangers that they face on the journey is because they don't feel they have any other choice because of the violence. >> i thank the gentleman and mr. chairman i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york mr. nadler for five minutes.

>> let me first express my dismay at the title of the hearing. the administration border search of unaccompanied alien minors. it shows what a farce it is. we are here presumably if we are here for any purpose other than politics to find out what's going on in why we have this urge at the border but the conclusion is announced in the title. this conclusion i believe is wrong but nonetheless a proper title for the hearing might be a disaster and a border search of on this -- maybe it is. i don't think so but that's a cold collusion and it's wrong to have a hearing with the conclusion announced before you start. bishop seitz you talked about the violence that is propelling

these kids to come here through danger to come here etc.. you have also heard the immigration policies of a bomb in frustration particularly the childhood of rifle policy is responsible for the recent wave of unaccompanied united states. with the understanding of american policy they are determining if the identity identity of an sake i probably will have a hearing for a few years and probably will be in a bed somewhere so i might as well trek across the desert and come here. how would you respond that what is causing surge in kids coming unaccompanied the childhood arrival as opposed to the violence in these countries? >> from these countries -- from what i've seen there hasn't been

a significant change in administration policies as far as i know. what has changed it appears as the violence on the ground in these countries. in honduras, if you can imagine if you can imagine the population this country something like 8 million. the number of children being killed each month has been in the last couple of years around 70 children. in the month of may it was 102. and so it seems that gangs and narcotraffickers are choosing to target children and to try and co-opt them into their gangs to cooperate. >> are we seeing an increase, a

similar increase in unaccompanied youth fleeing these countries just to get out of there? >> that is 11 what would expect it was simply owing to poverty and administration invitation but as i mentioned and what others did as well nicaragua which is perhaps even poor than those other countries has not seen a change. >> you misunderstood my question. from the three countries have we seen an increase in kids fleeing there for places other than united states? >> i'm sorry previously had. we have seen huge increases. i believe the chart that was up earlier and i don't see where it went to, shows that, that countries that are receiving such as panda mom nicaragua itself are receiving many more asylum seekers up 400 some%.

>> this would be consistent with the conclusion that the increase of kids coming here as well as other places because of violence and not because administration policies. let me ask mr. vitiello or mr. crane would you say this is what bishop seitz was just discussing? is there any evidence, well why should we not reached the conclusion that this increase in unaccompanied kids coming to the border in presenting themselves to the border, presenting themselves to the border guards why should we not believe that this is because of the violence and its because instead of administrative policy? >> violence is one of the intervening factors but there has been some confusion reported by the media in these locations. there is some benefit to be had

in the united states and that's why it's important. >> is that the reason they go to other countries to matt? >> i'm not sure but it's important to recognize that the secretary did write an opinion page, an opinion piece for an editorial to the families of people in these countries to tell them that there is that this benefit that may be smugglers and they be the media is promoting that don't exist. >> is there any real evidence mr. crane or mr. patel you. >> the time of the gentleman has expired. >> my question is the entire premise of what we are hearing of this hearing is that it's administration policy on childhood arrival since causing this problem are you aware of any evidence that it's bad as opposed to violence in the sending countries? >> i work for the border patrol so we are the ones that arrest

them upfront. what we have to do is we have to interview these individuals that we arrest and one of the things we have to ask especially if they ask for asylum we have to ask what is the fear and oftentimes they will tell us that they are coming here to be reunited with her family or they have been told that they will be released if they come. so yes in the interviews the initial interviews that take place with the agents and people we arrest are telling us that they are coming here because the radio is selling them if they come they will be released. the churches are telling them if they come they will be released in other organizations are telling them and advertising. these are the initial interviews that are taking place and they are documented. these interviews are documented and they are a matter of record. steve the time of the gentleman has expired. the chair announces a series of votes on the floor. the committee will reconvene immediately following the votes that we have time to get one

more members questions and so the chair will now recognize the dauman from alabama to stir pockets for five minutes. >> appreciated. thank you. bishop seitz i have worked closely with the catholic church on debt relief and jubilee and have the debt relief bill in the house and i have actually spoken out for legalization of 12 million immigrants that are here and i have spoken out for the need to have some pathway to citizenship for her dreamers. i have criticized the alabama bill. i was probably one of the only public officials that criticize this as being an overreach. i think i have established at

least in migrant friendly position and i very much sympathize. we are a country of immigrants. i am curious, these children are coming from honduras or ramallah and i guess el salvador and some from mexico. the catholic church obviously and i think you all offer more traders think your statement, you are the largest refugee resettlement agency in the wor world. is the church undertaking any effort to discourage these children from taking these long journeys? are you speaking out in these countries to the church, two bishops and to the father's? >> very much so. during her mission to central america in november we spoke to many groups that are working with the children with the youth

in these areas and near universal message is don't go. that is personally a message that i have conveyed when i've been there speaking to young people. we really want to do what we can to stabilize their situation. there's a program. i believe it's organized by catholic relief services called youth builders which is working directly to help children who are at risk for fleeing and they have been very successful. >> speaking out against the drug trafficking and the violence, the church i think would be very effective in doing that because i don't think whether you are pro-immigration or anti-immigration you don't want these children to be sent unaccompanied. even with the government i don't

know if the catholic church and in countries like mexico, these countries have quite a bit of political clout. even going to the president of mexico and saying you are allowing the trains to come he here, freight trains with children hanging off the tops. you now that could be stopped. i would think just a minimal government effort could stop a lot of that. i can imagine the mexican government not being able to stop children on their border. i know some of this, it's just a force in the demographics. >> we certainly don't encourage them to make the journey. at the same time i think we have to recognize that if these children feel that there life is in danger they may well feel. >> are there ways to offer those

children a place of refuge within those countries where the catholic church has a large presence like incompetence and places you know, we have boys and girls ranch is here and places of that nature. >> a large presence but unfortunately limited resources. we are trying to do the best we can with the resources we have. >> that is what i was saying wouldn't it be safer if they stayed in honduras? i wish the church and i'm not speaking -- i wish i would say is their way to stabilize the situation they are? i really think and you know if they make it to the united states you offer them shelter and refuge. that's almost in a way and i know it's not your intention but does that create some up --

somewhat of a problem? >> when they arrive to the united states i don't think we can say i'm not going to show you compassion. i'm going to leave you on the street because i don't want to encourage anyone else. we have to care for this situation as it is in those children in need. >> i would urge you and continue to do so that there needs to be an effort. i am speaking to the choir. >> the chair thanks the dauman. >> mr. trimming can i ask unanimous consent to submit for the record from i.c.e. and escort services for unaccompanied alien children solicitation asking, noting that they are expecting 65 thousand unaccompanied children amounts of head. this was in january of this year.

i would ask that it be submitted. >> without objection will be made part of record in the committee will stand in recess as part of a series of five votes and for the witnesses i would advise it would be 45 to 50 minutes so make yourself comfortable or go get something to drink or whatever. we will convene probably at close to 4:30. the meeting will stand in recess. >> i'm going to allow mr. scott and allow him to continue. thank you for your patience. the gentleman is recognized. >> thank you. mr. homan does any law change

that created the situation we are in? >> weblog are you referring to sir? >> we have a new situation and that because of a change in law or a change in circumstances? the children are showing up. >> the law does not change. >> okay. now when a child shows up and is apprehended, what sanctions as the law now provides? >> when the child is apprehended by the border patrol they process the child and identify the child. if they identify the child is being unaccompanied which means not in the residence of a parent her legal guardian than either border patrol or i.c.e. will contact health and human services and advise them that we have an unaccompanied alien child. we have 72 hours to turn them over to the custody of all our our.

my office part of the act requires that i.c.e. transfer that child from cdp custody to a bed identified by h. h. s.. not only is it in the tv rap that we are required to do that a lot but also in my perforations. i'm appropriated for the transportation of aliens which includes and even to an aids that includes the transportation of unaccompanied alien children. >> is each child entitled to an individual is tearing? >> yes. >> and are they entitled, too they have lawyers? >> pardon me? >> do they have lawyers? >> most of them do not. >> they have a right to a lawyer, is that right? >> they have a right to a lawyer

at their own expense. >> but if they can afford it no virus proof -- no lawyer is provided? >> correct. >> you have to ascertain whether or not they are victims of trafficking is that right? >> border patrol that's part of the process and review that the border does with huac. >> when you ascertain whether they are in title to political asylum? >> i would defer that to border patrol. >> border patrol so the screening that the border patrol does on-site they are screening for credible fear and if there's an indication of credible fear than the matter is referred to asylum offices. but it would move to their venue. >> and what happens in that venue? >> as i understand those

officers will review and do an interview to find, to define whether or not criminal fear exists or if there is a likelihood exists and it will further push it to an asylum hearing. >> how long does this hearing takes? >> i'm not familiar with that. they are referred to the immigration court for that purpose. >> is border patrol and immigration do you have enough resources to process all these children that are showing up? >> we are in fact processing them rather quickly given the age and the circumstance and y yes. >> by the present law provides that you find a suitable placement for each one? >> we were there when this problem was the most acute and we heard from the folks on the bench in his work that they can process within the first 20

hours or so and the rest of the time they are in our custody is waiting for suitable space to send them to. >> are at the children entitled to protection under the children in limitation act where they are placed? is that your understanding mr. homan? thank you mr. children -- thank you mr. chairman nye you bet. >> the chairman recognizes the gentleman from california mr. issa issa for five minutes. stay let me follow up on mr. scott questions. if someone tells you their name to have any way to verify for 13-year-old? >> agents will use their experience of a person as documents. >> if they have no documents they simply say i am joe. >> unless they have a prior history of u.s.. >> if it's not filed and used --

they tell you a name you have have to accept them in? do you know. other than guessing it because they tell you your eight comments that corrects? >> if they have other documentation we can verify it but essentially it's done by law enforcement. >> you say you do your best on trafficking but if they are from countries where they put a gun to their parents had so they will lie about being victims of trafficking. >> i'm not sure i understand. >> the reverend would have you believe that people come here because they are trying to escape this murderous violence that seems to exist in every country so the question is you don't know if they are victims of trafficking. if they don't have tattoos and they have never been identified

with fingerprints you don't know if they are gang members coming to this country or in some other way coming here to commit crimes. speak agents can try to verify whether or not. >> i work with the border patrol love. i appreciate everything you're trying to do. i'm just trying to ascertain with the president willfully and overtly enforcing a vast amount of people that you are trying to look through and do the best you can what your limitations are. now what i'll identification are you taking from a 1-year-old, five euros euros, 10-year-old, 15-year-old person in? >> that's all based on the interview. >> a bio identification? fingerprints? >> under 14, no. >> of him under 14 and i say i'm under 14 and i look under 14 and i'm a gang member that has been deported you don't know that because you are not taking fingerprints.

if i am under 14 and i being trafficked you can only hope you can spot the fear to find out whether or not they are actually being brought here for illicit purposes by somebody who says they are an accompanying parent. and you are taking no bioinformation so the truth is these people can disappear completely and the name and statement they gave us a note value because you have no markers to then recover those say or jane or whoever who says i am 13. i am coming here and this is my name. >> it's much harder that way. >> children are useful tool for an adult to bring in because you don't have any identification for them and if they grab a 12 or 13-year-old and say i will get you over the border just tell them i'm your mom, they can

do that and he really have no protection against that. isn't that true? >> i assume that's possible but that is not what we are seeing currently. >> what you are seeing is the flood of illegals coming here prepped to say whatever they need to say to stay here because the president of the united states has told them in no uncertain terms that they get here he won't enforce the law or allow you to enforce the law strictly. is that true? >> yeah the numbers are skyrocketing. is there dramatically violence where this is coming from? or in fact are they coming from areas like guatemala where the violence is down isn't it? >> the course that we see have a bright if factors. speaking can anyone answer the question i ask lex's violence down and bought a mile and a people coming in larger numbers?

>> is there proven correlation between violence and where they are coming from. i have a lot of people who are for second and third generation who have worked with me for years and they are friends. they do not come from the poorest areas of mexico? they come from areas of mexico that came before them. they come it because they have associations so i would say to you until you prove it to this committee they cannot accept that you are claiming between violence and the refugees draft -- that is not living up to his responsibility and and this carnage that can occur when children are pushed over the border in some cases left in the desert. mr. chairman i appreciate you holding this important hearing and i yield back.

>> the chair recognizes the gentlelady from california ms. lofgren for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. just a note mr. jedd even mention mentioned there was a catch and release policy and i just wanted to note for the record that this is not policy, it's the law and it has been the law since 1997 when we had the flores case settled and dick armey's bill that it was enacted into law and signed by president bush in reinforcing the 2008 statutes. so it's not just some random decision. i wanted to ask you mr. vitiello you have been in the border patrol for 29 years so i think a pretty good sense of how all of this works now as compared to past years and i have no doubt

that the number of children of writing each day is likely placing a strain on border patrol agents and facilities. the would you say the situation evidence is a security problem necessarily? >> in airports if in airports at the guy friday when we were there it was clear to me that based on the reporting that is available locally in the rio grande valley that most of the family innocent children are coming out a couple of zones along the southwest border. we break down the operational area by sounds and effects in rio grande valley most of the traffic is coming out with a couple of songs they are and by and large the traffic is seeking out any -- agents not the reverse. >> i would note for the record that when someone appears and again this