is no specific focus to look into intellect data on sexual violence of the trading for program on our nation's college campuses. . .

and so to both of our panelists, why understand that instances of sexual assault against students who are in rotc programs should be investigated and reported in the same manner as other campus sexual assaults, i guess my questions are, have you undertaken any formal or informal cooperation with the defense department on the issue

of sexual balances in rotc programs and college campuses. can you tell me why the department of education has not apparently spoken specifically to this aspect? and there would ask both of you respond. >> thank you. what, i am sorry to have disappointed you in the task force so far end of the we can redeem ourselves going forward. it is a focused criticism and fair point. i want to be sure that i say that our goal in the most recent frequently asked questions document was to make clear that there is posted on the college campus and the obligations do not extend to. it was our goal ought to take away from that overarching message that time line obligation to extend to every student of every type of every campus so that the schools will

make them safe. i have some lori that we might be of the biting the besieged. employees to work with your office in of want to assure you that we have been working specifically with students. one point that comes to warrant, she had not been able to be promoted to commander. we investigated and found harrowing facts about the way that she was treated and the way that the rtc believed -- talked to her and sexually discriminatory ways. the first year of will that ever so we are working in this space in our enforcement were trying to send a clear message. specifically to your way as we work together.

we put up our first 90 day report. the president has directed us and reminded us that he expects a new annual report each time. >> thank you. >> i want to thank you for your work on the defense aspect. burro by takeaways was that there must be be legal punishment for sexual assault if you're going to change the culture. one thing i can assure you of is in our work we look at institutions across the board fix, crimes that occur regardless of the location, but one of the important changes is that we're going to start to look more closely at issues of culture, climate, damaging traditions, lots of that and the military, especially along the lines of raising. when you create that culture of the next exhibit is sexual assault in high number.

this is something we would like to work with you want going forward and to look beyond rotc to the very enduring problems we see in our athletic programs, fraternities go and sororities. >> thank you, senator baldwin. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. thank you for being here. want to follow of a question senator barry was asking about best practices with respect to prevention. i want to turn the investigation that disciplinary process, a fairly well publicized case of columbia. they talk about the fact that many students feel a second of victimization when they get in the process of reporting and

testifying. she is as some incredibly insensitive questions and speaks to a much broader concern about the bigger rather uninformed and sometimes undertrained said of investigators and people who are overseeing the disciplinary process. what do we learn from what happened at columbia? the recommendations you are making to schools so that we do not have a reputation of read victimization happening when someone has the courage to report and bring it to a disciplinary board. >> we have seen all too often that the investigative process can be so in vases and unpleasant and bill and of the students elect not to use it which sends its own the message. that is one of the key things that we want to see campus's

change. they need to send up message to their students. and it will not involve separate questions about students' backgrounds, way of further victimizing people and have the courage to come forward. we will take the we have tried to do about that is to put information specifically about the conduct of the frequently asked questions. and we're making our investigation results will public, the kind of things that we find unacceptable. the specific set of concerns is exactly what we saw. is exactly what we saw. so we have been able to highlight what it is that we thought was wrong with the weight of those investigations are conducted. we have it will to highlight what it is the university's have agreed to change and of monitoring those changes to make sure they are live for realities. >> let me ask you the question,

of c-span2 to these processes. you don't get data about the kind of questions being asked. so how do we track whether this is getting better wars. >> well, certainly at the schools or we have resolution agreements we get case investigation files. that is a very important piece of data we can say that the school is now behaving in an appropriate manner so that we give money to keep monetary. we will see the ways that the schools investigate what it is that they do, the degree to which they comply with policy and the degree to which they status -- satisfy obligation. >> this is a key point. whenever number you look at, 185, one and six, something

else, we know is that campus sexual assaults are vastly underreported. one of the main reasons is there is not a good path for redress. the criminal-justice system is often we victimizing, and these campus judicial systems come with if they are not well formulated, can be even more so. one of the things that we give these new rules is try to fix some of the procedural elements. now there is a notice requirement. there have the students who come to us and show documentation that there were given one to two hours to prepare for a hearing. we now will allow students to above the accused and the accuser to have an advocate with them, and adviser of choice.

and one thing that may be tolerable to considering the future would be a basic relevancy rule. i can tell you, having reviewed documents for many of these hearings the kinds of information submitted and considered by these boards is friday. i have seen cases where people take things off of facebook pages for something like this and have that submitted as evidence. this is something we might want to look at going forward. even relevant evidence should be excluded if they're is a substantial risk of unfair prejudice. >> it makes sense to me. >> thank you both for being here. it strikes me that the relationship between the cause

of university, the local police department is important. at the steps in that relationship are fraught with danger, both for the alleged victim and the alleged perpetrator. including loss of an opportunity to gather the necessary evidence interference by the university or college in an ongoing criminal investigation, there's a public safety value to making sure that these events are reported and they're is a potential liability to university if it keeps was students confidence of that causes of this to by the individual above million pub product information to the police. a common law crime to commit

misprision of felony, which is concealment of felony and a coor's investigation is not a core expertise the handoff between the university at the local law-enforcement authorities is not very well managed and a lot of places, and there are very simple theory is that could make a big difference i think it is probably a very big difference if the victim or alleged victim is dead having a conversation with the university if they say, well, you should consider reporting this to the police. they had downtown and we me give you cab fare. the student to killing going off into the unknown verses, we have

a good relationship with the local police department. officer jones is right outside working these cases. you really should let her into this conversation because you will be making choices now that will really change the way you could pursue this. that seems to be an area that is not doing the attention that it deserves. so i guess my question to you is, have you identified colleges and universities that have what you would consider to be a model relationships with their local police department in terms of making sure that that had not between the two is not is handled from the perspective of students with interests involved >> yes, we have. i want to say how strongly as i

agree. the perspective you raised a raw but the colleges and universities staff or they say there is not even all local law-enforcement agency nearby that has the capacity to take a rape kit. there is the mention of the problem you describe which is that connect is not good, but there's also the disconnect whether is not a place to send students. >> what are your ma relationships? i don't expect to have it at the top of your head, but i would like as a response for the record have each of you identify where you think mall relationships exist between campuses and the local police departments know where you take the elements are in a relationship the victim of what our relationship?

is a little alarming to hear how much completely untrained and inexperienced people of badly around in the batter in which a felony is but alleged. and if you don't bring people that you have the proper authority, and know what they're doing and have a process in place to make sure the evidence is gathered which degrades rapidly, that you created a real problem. similarly to what if you force the college to go and maintain an investigation that produced a report at a time when the police as saying, for god's sake, we are investigating this. knock it off. this is interference with a criminal investigation. that seems to be a pretty serious challenge.

>> jim and i have been working together to create a model, the brand of of understand. we should be able to of least give you those boards. >> my time is up. -as the default for the record. i know that help our police departments and universities would welcome that. >> until we want to get to the second panel. the next pedaling, there will be a witness. she said the disproportion that practical nature, efforts to enforce the. they should be given the latitude. but everything rises to the level, i would say come by to

with the level of a felony. additionally rather than simply imposing fines of varying sizes of sierra should be allowed to have forced budgetary allocation but we were talking earlier with the key may have thought that i felt we should take away its nuclear option. that's fine. it makes it hard to respond to incidences' that may not rise the level of felony but still our egregious actions on the part of one student to another. so i just want to make that clear. i thought you're basically saying, no. >> it might make of it is useful to have the nuclear option level

lori that allows a tool would make it harder for colleges and you -- universities to use the nuclear option. >> did you are in disagreement. secondly, you know, again, i have been involved in some of these when my wife was a prosecuting attorney. a lot of times students who are victims of this just need to know what to do. they need to have someone that they can trust to go to, like an ombudsman on the campus that has been trained, that has the qualifications to that is initially be on the side of the person who is victimized to give them the kind of a information about where they should go to regional many colleges have that kind of a box with? do they have them or not? >> they have a coordinator that

can function as an ombudsman. >> but the title line person is sort of like in the hierarchy of the school. okay. got that. our military academies to exempt from tournament? do we know? >> i think the answer is yes. >> i was talking about our military academies. i have just been informed that there are exempt from turtle line. >> does that mean they are not reporting data? >> senator, the military academies are exempt from the query act. >> you collect no data? >> they do that after report. >> it is something that probably

should be corrected, because of the way that title for financial aid rules -- >> well -- >> the rules say that if you do not receive funds from the programs do not to comply. the act simply does not apply to those institutions. >> it is only entitled for. >> on that topic, and looking into this asking in an earlier question about the program, when congress did take sort of some new steps on combating military sexual assault the defense authorization budget, we did include the academy is under those provisions. yet the rotc was not included, which is why i feel like we have to focus attention on the training of many your future officers.

but you are accurate about the title line. >> they do after report under i did not know that. j. stapleton. >> i understand that there are certain instances the come through the sexual assault reporting mechanism of these universities that amount to less than criminal activity. my point is that unless you have someone in the robo understands what sexual felony assault is -- veteran ombudsman is not

anywhere near that level, and if the institution can support connecting with the police department in a way that is easy and supportive for the alleged victim then you have real problems to on the road because by the time did you figure it out it could easily be too late to get the appropriate evidence. you have really put the individual and risk in terms of defending her right as a victim through law enforcement process. >> i got that, when i think you will hear from some of this battle that may be a victim gets caught up in person to a felony accusation which takes on a life of its own. maybe they get a little reticent to go down that pathway. >> of the person presents the risk of being a serious offender

there are very good reasons why sometimes the law enforcement goes forward even with an uncooperative victim. we do it with violence against women prosecution's all the time. the woman recants but you go ahead with the excited utterance because of the statistical likely every offending. >> i think this panel has thoughts on the subject. it will start with amelie, a recent graduate of the university of virginia as an interim she also completed research. i am told now that works as special insurance and steve to t -- chief student affairs officer next we have mr. john kelly colorizing senior at tufts university.

he is the survivor of an intimate part of violence and rape while a college student, special organizer for know your mind. and we are careful you are here. jane stapleton, university of new hampshire prevention, elevation. extensive experience in working to end violence against women in college and university settings the lead developer and evaluator of the new york power social marketing campaign. she trains organizations of up to facilitate and implement comprehensive strategies. with that, in statements will be admitted in their entirety. could you start and some up in five minutes the essence of yours.

hopefully we will have time for questions and answers. >> they cupola senator and other members of the committee present today. as noted, and the recent graduate of the university of virginia. my a experience as a survivor, i learned a great deal about the dynamics are around campus of sexual assault. i want to let out several observations about the challenges faced by survivors. as requirements to expand the mandate for prevention and education and reach and is critical we ensure rollins -- colleges. personal feelings of responsibility, especially when reinforced undermine the survivors says that it is is our right to seek justice.

one survivor did not support al qaeda report her gang rape until a year later. told her she was wrong about what had happened because those are all great guys. her friends response took away her confidence which meant those five young men were me unpunished and the threat. while the current national media spotlight has almost exclusively focused a lack of punitive sanctions, we must maintain a range of available sanctions especially in cases where the perpetrator is no, many were initially scared to report because they did not want to ruin his life. the dean of students was only able to take disciplinary action

rules that have changed the of the cuts would come here of the door. the range of sanctions is about giving survivors of a door. a better chance to be fully aware. also, it may discourage future survivors from coming forward. in order to rectify what potentially chilling effect, where we -- the agreements should inform committees to help them stay informed and involved a top talent communication a vote does not immediately dismay

mistreatment certain to reassure students the administration is transparent about the way it handles cases in the future. roh including formal requirements resolution agreements can help address some of the fiercest. in order to address concerns about equity commonly being wasted maybe helpful to stets a charlie define the requirements of procedures raise my ocr and their guidance specifically, the five recommendations clarifying concerns about how to appropriately adjudicate. this made it contribute to schools in sufficiently stationing.

it stars a toward clarification of how procedures up to look based on those see our recommendations may help distinguish the process for criminal proceedings. a clear sense of how to proceed when it comes to ocr enforcement that a practical nature hinders efforts it's more of a tree trunk. they should be given latitude. co-ceo version be imposed rather than a purely punitive financial resources they could force schools to improve title might efforts to read a section could mandate a school must allocate 50,000 per year for four years

while it may follow the scope of today's hearing, and is important to know consider potential for state and federal and crumble. as we improved our efforts we would not have to rely so heavily upon colleges. out side of the college context much more meaningfully. options may make it possible to better address this problem. thank you for the opportunities speak. >> welcome. please proceed. >> thank you. i entered into what was then become an abusive relationship. nonetheless that of my freshman year he ignored my nose to berate me, and then physically

grabbed been restrained me know and believe his room until i told my love to. claman's letter he raped me again. as the men have become an advocate for the rights of students survivors. i think -- might take you for giving his son richard did. i come here with policy recommendations which i hope to address. first, congress must give the department of education's office for civil rights the part to the power to levy substantial fines. the only rackham pence currently is the full removal preventing schools from becoming repeat offenders. in addition these lines can go to help subsidize it costs for

enforcement area directly into victim services. no fines were levied. schools cannot truly be held accountable. secondly, congress must compel the department of education to continually release a list of school with complaints. they may be deprived of affirmation surrounding their own complaints. the university was under investigation when i was raped there were still under investigation and i still did not know. had i known, i could only about what have chosen another school to attend. i only wish i had known they were under investigation when i began going through my campuses silicon and that a modicum of

preparation for this humiliation the wooden door. they did not protect the. i was thrilled to see that ocr recently released a list of schools currently under investigation, but that must become the norm. compel them to continuously been publicly released surabaya experience can become a now wire . he did not use fiscal force until the last day of our relationship. in the months and weeks leading up to that moment he cites psychological and emotional abuse. those of you star with the emotional and psychological abuse. indeed to research shows that the effects are just as deleterious has a bruise or a broken bone.

99 percent of survivors experience economic abuse. there was agreement that we did not have the authority to expand the definitions of dating and domestic violence without the statues dating is much. please state as much. policies inform expectations and culture, and the expectation should not be to wait until you have hospitalization under your belt before you can report your id it to the abuser and receive justice it is time for congress to standardize the definitions of sexual assault and rape that colleges use of that they apply equally to male survivors and those in the greater kirk community. the estimate is 30%. for lesbian and bisexual women is 43%. about one-third of same-sex relationships of all domestic violence and about one-half of

all transgendered people experience sexual violence in their lifetime. this nation's policy on the local, state, and federal level fail to fully address this normally perpetuating the silence but prevents a college students from being of a fully access their sole right to education. please make consistent and inclusive definition so that this ceases to be an issue. austin's a right to education and policies that discriminate or ignore the large cities failed to provide as the ride. put in summary transparent trauma sensitive annexes the policies are a must for institutions of higher education and the federal government. thank you. >> thank you for being here and for her being so forthright in your testimony. i appreciated. please proceed. >> good morning.

thank-you, chairman to ranking member, committee members. i am from the university of new hampshire. along with dr. sharon potter, and the co-director of provincial income innovation, research. it is down a to be asked to testify before the committee on an issue that has been an important part of my personal and professional life. mid above researchers and practitioners to work together to create checks to may evaluate, and disseminate evidence does based prevention their responses to sexual and relationship violence. we are invested in building practitioner capacity to respond to survivors, measure climate and incidents, prevent violence and comply with recent federal laws and mandate. we believe that to truly and sexual and religious violence we must understand what works in

prevention and response, evaluate effectiveness, document climate in since and readiness to change and implement of is based best practices. during my career i had the opportunity to witness the dramatic shift in prevention approaches. in the early days we attempted to end the problem of sexual assault on campus by educating people about the fact and risk reduction, talking to women of how they can say save and asking men, please don't wait. by standard intervention is a different approach where women are not approaches victims or potential victims and men are not approached as perpetrators are potential perpetrators. is that, we utilize a community approach to prevention where rwanda's a role to play in in big sexual in relationship violence. together we have developed to

evaluate current and implemented by standard first off provinces strategies to save the intervene before, during, and after instances of sexual and religious violence. prevention innovation evidence based bystander intervention prevents a strategies include brain and a bystander, in-person prevention and know your power. both have been proven to reduce participants' acceptance to increase knowledge, increase people's willingness to intervene before, during, and after, and increase people self reported by stan behavior's. prevention strategies have been developed with considerable import and have been adopted by

colleges and universities across the country and adapt for the u.s. army. several members have administered an unwanted sexual experience study every five years at the university of new hampshire since 1988. the campus wide survey measures are male and female undergraduate student experiences of unwanted sexual intercourse and conduct. in 2012 the survey incorporated questions related to religious violence as parking included participants from a newfoundland colleges and universities. additionally my colleagues have developed in the value in the committee ready yesterday survey for campuses to measure committees raises to five readiness to change behaviors, policies, and practices. prevention innovation has just launched the campus sexual in relationship violence prevention

consortiums in an effort to provide technical assistance to colleges and universities as they work to meet the legislative requirements to reduce campus sexual and relationship violence. finally, prevention innovations as a nest to protect students, conduct a study of sexual assault policy education. i am delighted to see the extent to which the u.s. to provide education through title might have prioritized campus safety data on a related to sexual assault but dating and domestic violence. when we discuss these important reforms is important to remember the multiple forms of violence, not just focus on sexual assault , as well as technology diversity of survivors. the recent end dates are

essentials for stopping these preventable fences. all of the recent federal mandates told colleges and universities accountable for ensuring safety and accountability of campus. for some these build upon work a was a risk of bad policies that have already bid developed and implemented. for many campuses these provide an opportunity to begin work informal ways for the first time it to keep about how federal law is to be reformed restaurant, i suggest federal regulations provide guidance included 80 in the best of violence, sexual assault, and stocking.

conduct committed to services for undergraduate, graduate, staff, faculty and the administrators, parents, community members, businesses, and the one bright. conduct regular clients that is the measure the extent and nature of the problems of sexual relationship violence studies should be made public. utilizing prevention strategies that are scientifically evaluated in evidence based research report, to the non research based. >> solutions are popping up everywhere. for-profit companies are seizing the opportunity. a number of these solutions are not research and for more evidence based.

we must assess campus readiness to change. campus's fall on a continual of readiness to engage. we must create confidential support services and advocacy for survivors. campus's need to identify and advertise on campus, for its support and partner with community-based crisis centers to provide support for survivors and evidence based research and poor -- research informed prevention. everything and everyone needs to keep survivors in the center of prevention. i would back of the discussion on the need for the department of education to identify a program. thank you for inviting me. >> we will try to do a quick round we have about 15 more

minutes. let me just ask you cannot do we have any information from the data on college orientation? to colleges have sections on sexual assault and other forms of violence which you point out, stalking, intimidation like mr. kelly spoke about in terms of that type of intimidation students. do we have any data? >> we do not actually have any data. the ambitions do not one primary prevention programs, but we have no data which is will we have been asked to do a study.

>> when will that be done? >> it actually is campus-wise study involving seven campuses. >> you are also a survivor of assault. i read your testimony los night. it seems to me we have a little bit of a difference you are basically advocating that we have different levels of sanctions, maintain a range of sanctions so as not to deter survivors are reporting an expected variety of resolutions. that is getting us into what the senator and i were talking about to all of these wires to global of felonies and maybe this event

device driver does not want to push it that far. i am confused myself. i agree, you don't want to permit a perpetrator who is guilty of felony and you need the serial perpetrator from escaping the provisions of wall in the of the other hand, you are saying there ought to be other approaches. help me think this through. >> i think that the kind of clear point of the distinction is maintaining a range of sanctions is about being able to offer survivors are range of outcomes and to say that we can use the mandate. that is not the sent once a disciplinary proceeding begins a survivor maintains the same goals or wishes many victims feel a lot of self plane initially that prevents them

from wanting to report in a punitive way. the changes. it is a comfort in some ways and allows the school to act. once a school has initiated formal disciplinary proceeding it is entirely possible they can determine of style environment exists. we believe that they pose a threat to other students, and so we have to take that action. it is a way of cooperating on the needs but allows the school to make choices. the risk that mandatory reporting would deter someone from kuwait forward in the first place.

>> mr. kelly, again, by him, perhaps, also, and the office and the sections of the office of civil rights what they can levy against institutions out of compliance, and for me, mr. kelly coming for me, about how you might see this rather than this big nuclear option or we go to the police and have this person prosecuted as a criminal, are there are other things that we need to be looking at here and approaches on this? especially as it pertains to the gay and lesbian community? >> thank you for your question. i think that in the testimony and provided that what makes the most sense is to provide the

office of civil rights with numerous avenues for compliance and for the punishment of noncompliance. the school is found out of compliance right now the only option is the full removal of federal funding or no and all. they're needs to be below ground . what is happened recently is students have been using it query act more and more, but there are not tied to a campus in downtown. it is just one standards set fine that is pretty low and does not have an effect of schools with hundreds of millions of dollars. so i think what makes the most sense is to have fines tied to a school's yearly operating budget or schools fonds in some way. no way uc funds that are not unduly affecting the small campuses.

if you have a student, hundreds of millions of dollars a pound more the disposal, you're actually not going that have some effect which is important. >> kind of agree with that. >> i would absolutely agree. the key kind of issue is the idea of budgetary reallocation. that can be flexible, cooperate. provide bystander education. well, the office of civil rights could mandate that they provide $500,000 per year. that would really push compliance in a way that is voluntary and in good faith but would have more teeth. >> what do you think of that? >> i would like to see the discussion the discussion focus on prevention. >> i got that. >> if we are really, truly looking to stop the problems of

course we want to have responses to survivors and adjudication, but we need to focus on stopping the problem. >> i agree. we need better orientation. they the structure in place that informs students as to what violences, campus violence, sexual violence, stalking, intimidation. >> an important piece of the statistics is that there really are not -- they are what gets reported to a formal structures. >> say that again? >> the statistics really are reports that come through the university to formal structure. the campus police or the dean of students' office. so what we found an hour climate studies, is small percentage of

students to report actually report to those formal structures also it is so important to release the findings of those claman's that these so that when prospective students and their families look at the query statistics of say, well, this is low, eight is not necessarily indicative of what is happening on campus. plumb the study would give them more comprehensive use of what is happening. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to start by taking this panel for your testimony, and particularly those survivors to have taken something horrible and turned it into positive advocacy and support for others. i want to run continue to highlight one aspect of the

issue of campus sexual assault, namely how did a uniquely impact live speeded day by sexual interest in your community. they have not always been taken seriously. stigma and this combination mean that many are reluctant to report that they have been victims of crime. furthermore, while title might prohibits all forms of sexual this combination including that based on stereotypes in the inquiries act requires reporting of campus hate crimes based on sexual orientation ginger identity, there is no federal law was specifically addresses discrimination in education based on sexual orientation. as you heard earlier today, the

question and she and i know it colleagues have introduced legislation called the higher education anti harassment at which would require colleges and universities to address harassment, a clearing cy rebellion pace of talks about sexual orientation, gender characteristics which would add to the important protections we're already discussing in that are already on the books ended short colleges and universities take steps to avoid and address harassment in all forms. i would like to hear from the panel. none of you about one sums the subject things in your written testimony. other other ways in which congress and the administration can better ensure that our response to campus sexual assault and other forms of campus violence is truly

inclusive. >> thank you so much for your question, senator. thank you for your work on the legislation that your's speaking about. i think it is incredibly important. and we're talking about harassment, and a similar way that we talk of a sexual discrimination under title line, i think we could be talking about sexual discrimination. and coming in no, a lot of these hate crimes still happen. the unfortunate reality is that sexual violence within the community is rampant. think of making sure policies cater specifically to those by it is the best place to start. another has been a lot of talk about the criminal-justice system. i have been on winnable case because i am a male.

i could never prosecuted against my assailant. we need to be talking about how better than have state legislation to my own back to have local legislation that expands definitions of sexual violence that includes male survivors ansars of same-sex sexual assault. some of the states have laws that are discriminatory on the books. you see male pronouns when talking about assailants and female pronouns we're talking about survivors. things like that need to be eradicated from along. i think the senate is the place to start. you have to start at the time. i appreciate the work the you don't on the topic. >> i would reiterate the point about language. something as simple as the violence against women act

paints a clear picture of who violence happens to and you perpetrates violence. i think it is something to be mindful of the we are requiring the consideration of climate surveys. if those should be made to have language that is inclusive that measures of service across groups of that does not present opposite sex partners or opposite sex as sales. >> i would agree with my two panelists. and though we were hard to build strategy is the rare inclusive. think again with new evidence to know what warwicks. >> of the of a study. allegis said will be along the area. the barman published a proposed rule to the violence against

women's act amendments last week. one of the provisions gaining a great deal of attention is the new provision clarifying that both parties may have on his present during an institutional disciplinary proceeding including an adviser of their chores. on the one hand some argue that this chips away at the institution's ability to marshal students and committee members. others indicate that this offers both parties the right to have someone to accompany them and offer advice toward could amount to a dramatic proceeding another side. >> both points of the salient. the recessward system make sure you're managing your expectations the rest comes with

lawyers and the advisory council and the inequity occurs if one student can afford a lawyer and the other could not. what could be given to one side but that is not available. that is where the advisory will perhaps prevents a serious problem. >> good point. one student might have the financial resources to of all kinds of lawyers. the of the person may not. >> what i think is important to notice that it does not limit the it was a can be that gives the school leeway. the school has the ability to live with the advisor tony be present and not be allowed to speak which is important is often times schools to not have victim resources, crisis

counselors, domestic violence advocates, things like that. an outside crisis counseling center, local courses currently center would have those resources. so to be able to limit the advisor could be tell only members within the institution can be problematic because you can leave survivors with no one who has training on how best to support a survivor in difficult time. i understand the difficulty, but if you are limiting what is able to be set in these meetings by advisers, limiting the role of the advisor, as long as you have the ability the have someone present, that is what matters the most. >> it is essential to allows survivors to have ups of support people. ..

or an advocate provision i think is the way to go. >> they may not be trained legally to know all the legal nuances and stuff. >> victim advocates are. >> i was about to say some district attorney's office have victim witness advocate to operate basically to provide victims of crimes a variety of crimes with all the resources at

their disposal and accompanied them to the legal process to have victim witness liaison to a specific campus would be a good solution to that problem. >> i have got two minutes left. first i would like to thank her witnesses for their expertise in their views today. particularly want to thank the survivors who are with us here today for your personal courage in coming forward and speaking to us. i must say that when i hear you i put a lot of weight on what you are are suggesting rabid and perhaps others. i give a lot of weight to that and so that goes to the issue of having a sliding scale in things like that but i seem to have the disagreement with the department on. so i just want to thank you for that and thank you for all the wonderful research you have done. perhaps you are right i am the father of prevention and health and everything else but we have

got to do a better job of having structures in our schools and inform students that set up preventative type measures. yes that's the first thing. >> thank you for all your work. >> we have to do something also to respond to assault victims that are there. we know it's underreported. >> absolutely. >> i just found out the academy, the military academies don't have to report a military act. that needs to be fixed. i thank all of you and i think my colleagues and i specially want to thank senator alexander for his partnership in this hearing. he had to go vote and i now yet a plane tickets but i want to thank the committee's efforts to examine this critical issue. it will be made part of our higher education act reauthorization. exactly how it's going to do that is why we are having this hearing to inform the system asked to what to to do that i requested a record remain open

until july 10 for members to submit statements and additional questions for the record and the committee will stand adjourned. thank you very much. >> thank you.