>> recently, a senate commerce committee held a hearing reviewing e-cigarette advertising targeting young people and its effects on their health. we'll hear from cigarette company executives and industry experts. this is about two hours and 15 minutes. >> okay. today the committee's examining the marketing of e-cigarettes, and i should warn you that emotionally i'm on edge. on this whole subject. i'm on edge. a product whose popularity has recently been soaring including and especially among young people. we will hear today, i assume, from the tobacco companies or whatever they call themselves that they will be, they're just marketing to adults which i'm going to find an amazing answer, and we will quote that. e-cigarettes are battery-operated products that vaporize a liquid containing something called nicotine, and we all remember that, don't we?

eight people with their hands raised, all the rest of it. now, we know that a cigarette and e-cigarette are somewhat different. but nicotine is nicotine. little kids are little kids. and they're looking for things. and they're looking for things which they get to see a lot of in advertising. one of the nice things that you can sort of mimic the act of smoking. it's cool. kids are cool. these products are relatively new, and their long-term health effects are unknown at this point. which, to me, raises the question why in heavens name are you going ahead and marketing these things and selling these things and putting them online when the results of the health studies which are being done seriously are still out? why would you do that? you want to make money, that's

your answer. that's your answer. you'll tell me you're just talking to adults, but you're not. you want to make money. so you plunge in, get what you can, and then the studies come out, then you go ahead and do it. until the fda puts some nice rules and regulations on you. these products are relatively new, and their long-term health effects are unknown. however, they do indicate, they do deliver the nicotine, and it's a highly addictive substance. nicotine does a variety of things. it can affect brain development among young kids. some people claim that e-cigarettes can help adults quit smoking combustible cigarettes while others are concerned they may reduce quitting by encouraging dual use of e-cigarettes with combustible cigarettes. but we have not done enough research yet, and i admit that,

to resolve this question. but that is not the focus of this hearing. instead, we're going to focus on how marketing of e-rates -- excuse me, i like e-rates a lot -- e-cigarettes reaches america's youth and what consequences that that fact may have. since generations of cigarette users became addicted to nicotine in their youth, it only makes sense to be concerned about whether e-cigarettes could also get young people on a similar path to addiction. addiction under any form, i think, is a bad thing. and i don't know, we figure maybe about 4,000 kids in west virginia are affected by this. badly. the last thing anyone should want to do is to encourage young people to start using a new nicotine delivery product. it's the last thing. research isn't in, not sure what

the long-term health consequences, the short-term health consequences, ah, but there's an opening in the market. so, booming, let's get in and make as much as we can because there are no regulations. that's our fault. i apologize for that and welcome the distinguished senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> if you put west virginia and south dakota together, you have approximately 72% of the united states territory. [laughter] >> seems that way. >> health experts are sounding several alarms on these virtually-unregulated products. in addition to the issue of nicotine addiction, e-cigarette calls that are related -- cause calls to poison control centers to be very much on the rise. and particularly involving children and particularly involving children under the age of 5. yes, 5.

moreover, some studies indicate the toxins other than nicotine hay be found in e -- may be found in e-cigarettes. we don't know that. we don't know if the answer is, yes, partially or not at all. we don't know, do we? so we hold off until we know. and then we go ahead. but, no, some have chosen a very different course. given the health concerns and the lack of data substantiating health benefits, it's imperative to restrict youth exposure to e-cigarettes. simply stated, children and teens should not be guinea pigs as we await more conclusive research. i do not understand that. i do not understand the corporate view on that. making money's a wonderful thing, but making money with something like this where you don't know what the results are

but you do know what those results are with nicotine and cigarettes, it's, it does not reflect well on corporate america. finish unfortunately, awareness and use of e-cigarettes by youth has been surging. so please consider the following: between 2011 and 2012, i count that to be one year, e-cigarette use among u.s. teens more than doubled. 1,800,000 kids have tried these products, and a recent study found that awareness of e-cigarettes among youth is virtually you ubiquitous. i guess that means they have the see stuff somewhere, like advertising. maybe television, maybe newspapers, maybe magazines, maybe lots of it. be so we'll talk about that.

the growth in youth awareness and use of e-cigarettes has coincided with a flood of recent e-cigarette marketing activity. a report published this month in the journal of pediatrics found that youth exposure to e-cigarette advertising on television increased 256% in two years. that's kind of like everybody, all the results are out on the health surveys. just go, go for it. go for that dollar. 256% increase. extraordinary. a may american legacy foundation report found that last year 14 million teens saw e-cigarette advertisements on tv and 9.5 million saw print ads.

so while major e-cigarette companies reiterate that they only target adults, a large youth audience still appears to be getting their message pretty loud hi and pretty clearly. -- loudly and pretty clearly. and particularly when they aim the message at tv and magazines and, you know, social media and events which just really come down hard towards kids. to look -- good morning. >> good morning. good afternoon. >> you can wish me happy birthday. >> and a happy birthday. >> thank you. [laughter] so to look for closely at this issue, i joined a group of senators and representatives including representative waxman, senator durbin who's going to be here, committee colleagues like senator boxer, senator blumenthal, senator markey. and a recent investigation asking leading e-cigarette manufacturers about their marketing practices.

the results of this inquiry -- and that's all it was -- were troubling. the joint report we issued this april concluded that e-cigarette manufacturers are adepress fly promoting their products using techniques and venues that appeal to youth. now, i understand that whatever young people go to, you're probably going to find it dull. so if you really say we're targeting adults, i guess you just have to overlook the fact that a lot of adults wouldn't go to what you're targeting. but we'll see. practices of surveyed companies include sponsorship of youth-oriented sporting and cultural events, handing out free product samples -- that's really nice, you know? free product samples. i mean, that's neutral. nothing aggressive about that. nothing about enticing the money

plow to pick up -- flow to pick be up in that. using celebrity spokespeople. god rest their souls. airing television ads during programs that reach large youth audiences. using social media without imposing age restrictions. and marketing e-cigarettes in flavors that could appeal to children. now, i'm an adult, so would with i be attracted to cherry crush, chocolate treat, peachy keen, vanilla dreams? no, i wouldn't. 60 years ago i probably would have been. so that's the way it works, the dollars flow in. this review provided just a snapshot of activities of nine market leaders in this industry, but there are hundreds of companies that do this. in the marketplace. for example, beyond the flavors

identified in our report, refillable nicotine liquid is marketed and can be found in flavors that include bazooka joe. no turn-on for me. gummy bears. no. no, that's not adult stuff. chocolate tootsie. that's not adult stuff. that's aimed at children. products like these sound more like a candy shop display than a means for delivering nicotine vapor. and it's not hard to see how they could appeal to kids. many of the practices that e-cigarette companies are using to pitch their products are prohibited for cigarette marketing under measures including the comprehensive 2009 family smoking prevention and control act which passed and is the law, but these rescissions do not currently, i say, apply to e-cigarettes.

loophole in the law. a chance to rake this cash. worry about the kids later. 4,000 kids in west virginia, well, you know, is that important or not? to me, it kind of is. to the companies, they might not be looking at that. it's worth noting that the tobacco control law was enacted following years and years of litigation that uncovered internal tobacco company documents showing that despite claims that they only promoted their products to adults, the industry had targeted young people as a critical market. and of course you have. that's where the money is. that's where the buying is. that's where you've got cash in your pocket and you're 12, 8, 14, out you go. you want to be cool? well, you can actually hold one of these things and look like

you're gloria swanson, was that her name? >> uh-huh. >> in april fda proposed rules to regulate e-cigarettes, but finally these rules could take a long time, making them complete. meanwhile, the e-cigarette industry is booming, and tobacco companies with a history of marketing cigarettes to youth have been jumping into the market. i don't know how many per day, per week, i just don't know, but a lot. as the e-cigarette industry continues to rapidly evolve, we need to hold companies something called accountable. accountable. that's an american tradition. gm's finding out about that. toyota found out about that. accountable for promotional activities that encourage kids to start using e-cigarettes

before we know what the health effects really are. don't wait for what you might be getting into, what harm you might be doing, but jump in now and maybe congress and fda will be, as they always are, slow. so you can make a lot of money while we're sorting this all out. and then again, those 4,000 kids in west virginia, not maybe at the top of your list. and because e-cigarettes look so similar to cigarettes, we must also make sure that e-cigarette marketing doesn't i understand mine decades of work -- undermine decades of work to deglamourize and denormallize smoking for youth. and there we were making tremendous progress, enormous progress after a long period of time. in any event, i look forward to talking about these issues with the major e-cigarette companies represented here today, and our

panel's accomplished experts. and now, senator thune. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and allow me to add my birthday wishes. happy birthday to you. i'm sorry you're stuck spending it with us. [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> yeah. >> no, i'm not. i'm not at all. >> mr. chairman, i want to thank you for today's, thank you for holding the hearing and thank today's witnesses for appearing before the committee. according to the world health organization, there are more than one billion smokers in the world. sadly, in one year alone more than five million of those people will die prematurely due to direct tobacco use. in 1976 professor michael russell, a leading expert on cigarette addiction, wrote and i quote: people smoke for nicotine, but they die from the tar. end quote. the introduction of e-cigarettes which usually contain nicotine but none of the tar involved in ordinary cigarettes presents new challenges for the public health

community. it's also a new opportunity for increased lick health to the the extent -- public health to the extent that these new products may help reduce the number of individuals who smoke combustible tobacco cigarettes. dr. david abrams and at the amen legacy foundation -- a nonprofit dedicated to reducing tobacco use is funded by payments from the master settlement agreement between state attorneys general and the tobacco industry in 1998 -- has called the e-cigarette a potentially, and i quote, disruptive technology able to render the combustion of tobacco obsolete, end quote. similarly, mitch zeller recently said, and i quote, we have to have an open mind on the potential for these emerging technologies to benefit public health, end quote. in addition, a recent study by researchers at the university college london on the efforts of people to stop smoking found that e-cigarettes are 60% more effective than nicotine patches

or gum. many e-cigarette companies argue their product is still an emerging technology and warns that restrictions may inhibit future innovation to create safer products for existing smokers. at the same time, we need to be mindful that even if e-cigarettes are shown to be less harmful than combustible tobacco cigarettes, nicotine is addictive, and the long-term usage and health effects of these products are currently unknown. opponents also believe that e-cig rotes are a gateway especially among minors. overall awareness of e-cigarettes is growing, and some advertisements whether they're intended to or not are reaching youth audiences. in addition, the campaign for tobacco-free kids represented by mr. myers have identified advertisements that employ similar campaigns and themes as advertisements from combustible cigarette companies decades ago. while this is not necessarily the case for all companies, it

raises understandable concerns about the targeting of this advertising. there's also been a recent rise in the number of calls to poison centers involving children related to e-cigarettes and the accompanying solution which often contains nicotine and other ingredients. the american academy of pediatrics represented here today by dr. tanski has raised concerns about the lack of child-resistant packaging on these products. earlier this year the food and drug administration proposed a rule to regulate e-cig relates as tobacco products. a number of questionses are being asked about just how these products should be regulated, especially how they and cannot be marketed. begin that these are relatively new products and given the extent to which they may provide benefits to public health, i believe sound science should drive regulation. i also think we should all agree that children should not be able to purchase these products. my home state of south dakota has banned the sale or use of e-cigarettes by those younger

than 18 years of age, and several other states have done the same. while i'm opposed to smoking in general, i look forward to learning more about the apparent potential of e-cigarettes to reduce harm to current smokers. as with most issues that we face in congress, i believe that more scientific investigation and thoughtful discussion is needed, and mr. ballin is here to discuss some of his work with the university of virginia to start dialogue between various stakeholders on these issues. i'd like to end with a quote from dr. thomas glenn who's a director at the american cancer society who sums up the current debate surrounding e-cigarettes as follows, and i quote: as with so many highly celebrated or reviled products, their true nature likely lies somewhere in between with both pros and cons to recommend or discourage their use, end quote. hopefully, we can shed some light on these pros and cons here today. so thank you again to our witnesses for appearing today, and i look forward to hearing

your testimony. thank you, mr. chairman. >> let's start with dr. tanski. >> good afternoon, and may i add my birthday wishes, chairman. >> please don't, please don't. [laughter] >> happy birthday. i'm susanne tanski at the geisel school of medicine at dartmouth. i'm here today representing the american academy of pediatrics. i'm the chair of the aap's tobacco consortium, and i conduct research on tobacco and adolescents. chairman rockefeller, ranking member thune, members of the committee, it's my pleasure to be here today to talk about electronic cigarettes. pediatricians have numerous and growing concerns about the known and unknown risks and health impacts of e-cigarettes. we are seriously concerned that e-cigarettes may lead adolescents to a lifetime of nicotine addiction and could serve as a gateway to traditional cigarettes. the aggressive marketing and its impact on youth is particularly worrisome. the evidence is clear that

tobacco advertising directly influences youth. use of e-cigarettes is rising dramatically as told, and we believe this increase is clearly linked to unfettered advertising. while there's much we don't yet know about these products, we do know enough to say this: we must act now to protect children against these risks from e-cigarettes. they're devices that heat and vaporize a solution containing nicotine, flavoring and other chem cat. contrary to claims, these products a not without significant risk. nicotine is a psychoactive drug with a high level of toxicity and rapid addiction. overdose of nicotine can lead to headache or dizziness or seizures and death. it can be absorbed through the skin, and it comes with workplace safety warnings. due to its extreme toxicity the lethal dose is somewhere between one and thirteen milligrams per kilogram of body weight. toxic effects at much lower levels for children. pediatricians fear it's only a matter of time before a young

child dies from the liquid nicotine used to refill these cigarettes. indeed, the liquid has led to a spike in calls to poison centers. it's colorful, it often smells like candy and is sold without child-proof packaging. a small bottle can contain over 500 milligrams of nicotine, enough to kill several average-sized, curious toddlers. we find it complete he unacceptable that no federal laws or regulations currently require the sale of e-liquid in child-proof containers. we call on congress to act quickly to make sure these dangers to children are eliminated. the ingredients in e-liquids can cause lung irritation in the short term, and no research has yet been established to show their long-term safety. the vapor contains numerous known toxins and carcinogens. the levels of particulates that

are emitted are similar to that of come busted cigarettes -- come busted cigarettes. flavored e-cigarettes are concerning. this is well understood by manufacturers. a web site sponsored by one company notes, quote: kids may be particularly vulnerable to trying e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors. unquote. notably, this same company markets e-cigarettes in these flavors. other flavors include captain crunch, atomic fireball, clearly enenticing children. young children being enticed to experiment with nicotine because the adolescent brain has symptoms of dependence occurring within day toss weeks of intermittence use. there's a risk that these users will progress to come busted tobacco products. anecdotal reports and limited data suggests e-cig represents

may help some smokers to reduce or quit smoking. further research is necessary to determine if and how they can play a beneficial role in reducing tobacco-related disease. research also needs to identify whether e-rig sets are -- cigarettes are used as a bridge. e-cigarettes have yet another cause for concern, the renormalization of smoking. children do what they see. it's, therefore, very important that we not allow use to renormalize the image of a smoker. given all these concerns, it's alarming to us that e-cigarette use has grown dramatically. a recent study by legacy found 9% of 13-17-year-olds are currently using electronic cigarettes. marketing clearly plays a large role. there's substantial evidence that tobacco marketing reaches and influences adolescents. e-cigarettes are advertised with many of the same tools used by companies, celebrity endorsements and event sponsorships.

they promote freedom, rebellion, independence. these marketing practices must stop. america's pediatricians believe that strong regulation of e-cigarettes are absolutely essential to protect children from the risk of these products. we support fda's regulatory authority to regulate tobacco products for the protection of the public health. it would be a tragedy the if we failed to regulate e-cigarettes in a way that protects children only later to find out we caused serious harm. the message of america's pediatricians is simple. we have a duty first to protect the children. thank you very much for the opportunity to speak here today. >> thank you very much. dr. tanski. and now, mr. matthew myers. >> i'm matthew myers, president of the campaign -- president of the campaign for tobacco-free kids. mr. chairman, minority member thune, members of the committee, i want to thank you for the opportunity. we've worked with many of you for over a decade to help pass

the law giving the food and drug administration authority over cigarettes, smokeless tobacco and all other tobacco products precisely to address many of the concerns, mr. chairman, that you raise today. over the last several years, we have seen a dramatic growth in the marketing and sale of e-cigarettes. despite the rise and the use of e-cigarettes as you correctly noted, little is proven either about their health effects or their population impact. our core position is that responsibly marketed and properly regulated, e-cigarettes could benefit the public health if, in fact, they help people switch off of cigarettes to either the exclusive use of these cigarettes or to quit use of nicotine altogether. however, e-cigarettes pose a potential health risk to the public. if they are not used by smokers or other tobacco users to stop smoking altogether, if they

cause children to start or reglamourize smoking in the eyes of our nation's children or if they discourage smokers from quitting by providing doses of nicotine that sustain addiction rather than help people quit. today, as you correctly noted, as a result of the failure of the government to act swiftly and the most irresponsible action by the manufacturers and marketers of e-cigarette companies, the marketplace for e-cigarettes has turned into a true wild west. the rapidly growing and today completely unregulated e-cigarette marketplace has not only outpaced the science, the behavior of the e-cigarette industry itself raises serious concerns about the ultimate effect of e-cigarettes on the public health. how e-cigarettes are made can also impact whether they are effective at helping people quit smoking cigarettes or whether they lead to sustained cigarette

use or introduce a whole new generation to smoking. unfortunately it appears that a substantial segment of the industry is neither designing their products, nor marketing with an eye towards reducing the number of people who smoke be cigarettes. let me crease the issue of marketing -- address the issue of marketing because it is the one this hearing is about. the marketing practice, themes and images of e-cigarette manufacturers today, mr. chairman, exactly as you noted are virtually the same as those used by the cigarette manufacturers to successfully attract kids to smoking cigarettes for 50 years. it is a battle that we have been fighting and are slowly but significantly winning. yet for e-cigarettes today, what do we see? we see celebrity spokespeople with themes like freedom and imagery like this. we see the use of sex as we saw with the cigarette companies with themes and images like

this. we see placement in "sports illustrated", the swim suit issue of "sports illustrated" with placements of the brand name on the bikini bottom of a scantily-clad model in probably the magazine that is read by more adolescent boys than any oh single -- other single magazine in the united states. we've seen a return to sponsorship of sporting events, rock concerts attended by youth all over the country. ..

and figure out who they are targeted to come would, in fact, have the whole body of science done by the national cancer institute, the institute of medicine, the surgeon general, oedipal for of others that look at these techniques in marketing and determined that they are directly and causally related to the increase in use of cigarette smoking among kids. it defies logic. it defies logic -- site. to say the same technique, same ad won't have the same impact on our nation's youth with regard to e-cigarettes. you here i'm sure that the e-cigarette manufactures, that we don't target kids. in fact, that's exactly what the cigarette companies have been saying for 50 years. to this day they have never

admitted running a single ad that targeted kids. the third prong of those eight ceos who stood up after they said that they didn't believe that smoking causes disease or a diction was, we don't market to children. let me quote from judge kessler's decision in the case of federal government brought against the tobacco industry, sadly, eight years after the tobacco companies promised to stop marketing to kids, that was from laurel and said our tobacco has never marketed or sold its product to use. is the same company that markets blue cigarettes. the judge have exactly the opposite, that that was the case. has just requested unable to repeat, it isn't a surprise we are just seeing the dramatic rise in youth because in the last two to three years we have seen a fundamental change in e-cigarette marketing antifungal change in the amount of

e-cigarette marketing. what we are seeing is the start of the potential tsunami. because not that e-cigarettes are good or bad, but because of the behavior of the e-cigarette manufacturers and marketers. that's what is causing the rise here with regard to this. so it's not as by twisting the dramatic rise and it should shock us if we see that rise take off in unprecedented levels unless something is done to stop the kind of marketing that i am sure you. the same is exactly true with flavorings. they're asking us as well to turn the world upside down. the exact same flavors that you quoted that dr. tanski quote, that prompted congress to ban the use of characterizing foods and cigarettes are now being found in e-cigarettes. and we're hearing the same thing from them. these aren't about targeting kids, they say. here's a bottle of liquid. cinnamon bun flavored.

i would pass it around with your fingers would stink if he did and i have to caution you not to open it because it's as if it touches your skin its touches your skin its toxic. if you inhale that it's toxic. and yet this is being sold over the internet with virtually no open controls as easily available. blue cherry, crush with this. is a surprise if the data is already showing an increase in use of these very flavors? dr. tanski cited a tobacco companies own website, but i could cite you a string of quotes of interim tobacco industry documents and quote that says that these flavors appeal primarily to young people. now whether or not they may or may not help somebody quit smoking, we don't know. but what we do know is that they feel dramatically to young people, and unless somebody gets a handle on the marketing of

these flavors, and a new study out in just the last week shows the number of new flavors has literally exploded. i can guarantee you, nobody is testing those flavors because they would have to if you been regular by fda to see those flavors entice kids. in short, mr. chairman, this hearing comes at exactly the right time. it is an urgent need for our government to step in and protect our kids. this is not hearing about whether or not e-cigarettes potentially have beneficial effects. it is about the behavior of the e-cigarette companies and how their marketing and manufacturing these products. unless the fda acts and acts rapidly, and, unfortunately, the proposed for deletion doesn't even address the question of e-cigarette marketing for the flavors in e-cigarettes. so that our kids will continue

to be, as you greatly said, human guinea pig for an industry that has demonstrated no responsibility and how it is marketed, where it is marketed, to whom it is targeted its products. we urge you to take strong action to ensure that these issues are addressed. thank you. >> thank you, sir. and now mr. jason healy as president of lorillard, subsidiary blu ecigs, the market leader for sales and marketing in the e-cigarette in history. we welcome you. >> chairman rockefeller, ranking member thune and members of the committee, i am jason healy, founder and president of blu ecigs. it is a privilege to speak about a new product that has tremendous potential to reduce tobacco related harm and disease and hopefully play a role in eliminating traditional cigarettes. back in 2008 i tried my first electronic sacred. as a smoker i saw tremendous

opportunity for myself and other smokers. i immediately saw that this innovative product could provide an alternative to smokers who enjoy smoking or who struggled to quit, like myself, but don't let the negative effects of traditional cigarettes on their health. i became convinced that e-6 are just as much a force as digital cameras once were to the film industry. and every time a use and e-cig instead of the combustible cigarette it is a good decision. i am not alone in seeing the potential. public health experts have long considered harm reduction and effective approach to the reduction of risk caused by various behaviors. harm reduction policies apply to tobacco will make great progress because we desperately need an alternative policy that complements prevention and cessation. different types of nicotine's use, occupy different points along what fda calls a continuum of risk. some activities care less risk than others.

lacking combustion from e-cigs fall lower on this continuum compared to traditional cigarettes. that is only logical because traditional cigarettes are very different. as one example of the significant difference, a recent study by our researchers found that harmful constituents present in cigarette smoke were at non-detectable levels in the paper of blu ecigs and similar to that found, our funnies are consistent with other third party research. i concluded a summit of this analysis in my submission. >> could you say that last sentence once again, please? >> i'm sorry, to the harmful constituents? >> yes. >> our study by our researchers found that harmful constituents present in cigarette smoke were at undetectable levels in the vapor of a blu ecigs and so much of that found in --

>> thank you. >> we support science-based fda regulation of e-cigs and we're committed to working with the fda. manufacturing standards to assure safety, age a person to ensure this isn't adults only product, content indicating labeling to ensure consumers informed are supported by responsible manufacturers. we are encouraged that the preamble to the proposed regulation seems to acknowledge that regulation should be proportional to harm any one size fits all approach is not appropriate. we agree with the fda director for the center for tobacco products when he said we have to have an open mind on the potential for the emerging tech dodges to benefit public health. blu has not waited for fda's action to address youth access. with actively advocated for and support state legislation to prevent minors from bridges in electronic cigarettes and we require third party age verification for online sales.

blu began as a small company marketing a product in an emerging market with the challenge of introducing a product that did not effectively exist in the u.s. with the help of our parent company we adopted strict and responsible marketing restrictions that reflect a clear and focused on adult smokers, also substantial reducing youth exposure to blu or promotion. are voluntary restrictions such as limiting ad placement do media events with the target audience is at least 85% adult, match or exceed restrictions adopted by comparable adult product numbers but as an industry leader we believe these marketing restrictions demonstrate responsibility. to reiterate our marketing focus is to committed to adult smokers. that e-cigs are a viable alternative to sacred. we provided you with an explanation of the voluntary marketing restrictions that we have adopted. we have included this expedition in our submission and i provided

to the committee. e-cigs have a tremendous untapped potential to positively change the lives of adult smokers of traditional cigarettes. reaching this ambitious goal requires a new way of thinking and involves compelling marketing to normalize this behavior and as result the normalize smoking. so adult smokers know it is a viable alternative worth their trial. further we believe that using a variety of flavors is critical to keeping adult smokers have switched to e-cigs from returning to more harmful combustible cigarettes. e-cigs are likely the most significant tobacco harm reduction product ever, making less over products available as soon as possible should be a top pretty. thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. healy. and now mr. craig weiss, who is the president and ceo of njoy, electronic cigarettes, the second largest presence in the e-cigarette market. [inaudible]

>> members of the committee and mr. chairman, thank you very much. my name is craig weiss and i'm president and ceo of njoy. njoy is an independent electronic cigarette company with no affiliation to the tobacco industry. we are proud to say that our corporate mission is to also tobacco cigarettes and the death and disease it has left in its wake. i like to focus what i believe unites us and our country with the members of this committee, with the fda center for tobacco products and with dedicated women and men in the movement and public health. we look forward to a day when combustion cigarettes are no longer part of the american landscape. we are appalled at the tolls of the tobacco epidemic has taken a continued to take each year on this country including 480,000 adult americans dying prematurely each year from tobacco related illness. the evidence code indicates that new approaches will be required to operate the combustion is a great. electronic nicotine delivery

systems hold the potential for a critical role. because folks either cannot or will not quit a positive alternative. they provide smokers with the nicotine that they're addicted to integrate without the combustion of tobacco. as stated by the 2014 surgeon general's report, the burden of death and disease from tobacco use in the united states is overwhelmingly caused by cigarettes and other combustion tobacco products, rapid elimination of figures will dramatically reduce this burden. we understand the great suspicion caused by the 24th entry to the marketplace of the first of the three major american cigarette companies. while major tobacco companies have now entered the category as cigarette sales fall, they did not create this industry, and most companies in the industry do not sell combustion products. njoy which was established more than five years before the first major american tobacco company purchased an electronic cigarette company is independent

of the tobacco industry and has absent been no incentive promote combustion cigarette use, among adults or use. ends are increasingly displacing cigarettes and are used as a form of the adult smokers. reports from a cdc survey that expanded edition of the cigarettes among youth has risen should be taken seriously. however early fears that electronic cigarettes would entice young people to initiate with these products and to migrate to combustion products appear to be unsupported by the data at this point. to be clear, no minor should be using a nicotine containing product of any kind. the maxim public health benefit will be achieved by mitigating risks the youth without constraining the ability for e-cigarettes to effectively compete with combustion cigarettes among adult smokers. bans on sales to minors which we were among the first to support are essential. we have long supported fda regulation of this category, and the fda's issuance of proposed

regulation is a critical milestone. cigarette style advertiser structures were not part of fda's proposed regulations. subjecting electronic cigarettes to combustion cigarette style advertising restrictions would only erect unnecessary barriers to effective promotion of these products to adult smokers. smokers are not going to purchase a smoky alternative that they were not aware of. it is important realize that in the event that trantwelvtrantwelv e faced the same advertising restrictions as combustion cigarettes, the big winner will be big tobacco to get to maintain their struggle on the more than 40 million americans who smoke. still, even responsible to the another advertising should be delivered in a manner that is consistent with the assertion that it is intended for adult smokers rather than for kids. njoy's television campaign quote friends don't let friends smoke, is a clear illustrate of this principle and we need more rather than less of this kind of advertising.

analyzing information collected for its may 2014 report on e-cigarette advertising that chairman rockefeller referenced in his opening remarks, the american legacy foundation noted, this data suggests that the marketing of njoy is more focus on reaching an adult audience. according to the surgeon general, nearly 6 billion of today's children will adopt smoking, grow up, and die prematurely from cigarette caused disease if present trends continue. the best thing we can do for the health of all of our children, is to ensure that the growth in a world in which neither their parents or any other adult role models are smoking combustion cigarettes. providing smokers who cannot or will not quit with a positive alternative may be the long sought solution to a massive health problems does cost millions of lives, and more and more members of public health here and abroad are beginning to make their voices heard in support of this technology. we need to approach regulation of this category in a manner that has guided by science

rather than by demotion or suspicion. there's too much at stake to do any of the way. njoy looks forward to working with the committee to achieve the goal of obsoleting combustion cigarettes. thank you. >> thank you. finally, mr. scott ballin, dedicate that right? i apologize. >> close enough. >> mr. scott ballin is a tobacco health policy consultant spent yes. mr. chairman, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here. i spent much of my professional career dedicated to working in the public health arena and in particular tobacco and nicotine area. worked for the heart association for many years, coalition on smoking or health complex in around a long time. i also feel the age. i commit today to give you my thoughts on issues being raised in this hearing as well as unrelated issues and some of us have come up your. on what is a very dynamic

emotionally charged and rapidly changing environment. this includes the broad topic of how all tobacco, nicotine and other products, should be regulated, including their advertising and marketing. i and many others including the director of the fda's center for tobacco product believe we're in a new era, sort of an evolutionary next stage looking to develop a more comprehensive, rational and workable approach to the regulation of all tobacco and nicotine products. this next stage could potentially be a significant as our recor quite of fda's oversit over tobacco just a few years ago. it entails how best to regulate the growing speculative of products including e-cigarettes. to hold significant promise for phasing out or wendy virtually eliminating the deadly combustible cigarette but it's got to be done right. it entails accepting and using what is common for two as

continue to do to write a product based on the risks, relative risk and their intended uses. gone are the days when we continually say that all tobacco products were equally harmful. fda oversight has changed the equation. science and technology and innovation have changed the equation. new entrants into the market place have changed the equation and consumers have changed the equation. while there are many issues and some issues need to be addressed, there are two general areas of focus come to mind when it comes to reducing the harms caused by the tobacco. first, we need to ensure that no one, ma no one under the age of 18 should able to purchase any tobacco or nicotine products and that we do everything feasible to prevent the initiation, possession and use of any tobacco and nicotine product by anyone under the age of 18. this includes advertising and marketing, whether intentionally

or unintentionally appeals to children and adolescents and it includes a discussion about what restrictions should be placed on flavorings. it is generally agreed if we can prevent we are a long way towards addressing our public health objectives. second, we need to ensure that the approximately 40 million smokers in this country are provided with consumer acceptable regulated alternatives to the deadly toxic sacred. that's what's killing people in this country. someone noted earlier, professor mike russell said many years ago people smoke for the nicotine and they die from the tar which in many respects is what this discussion is all about today. to do this effectively we do need regulations to recognize there are distinct differences between these products. one size does not fit all. we should also be encouraging better and more focused research in both the public and private sectors can encouraging innovation providing incentives

to develop science-based of the red cross encouraging competition rather than stifling it. in this rapidly changing environment in which it will be essential we approach the discussion of these issues in a more civil manner. that is happening at this table today in many respects and i appreciate your leadership, mr. chairman. there are numerous stakeholders involved have seemingly differing views. i believe there's a lot more in common, common ground than people think. the institute for environmental and negotiation at the university of virginia has been at the forefront and telling issues of safe haven tobacco dialogues where individuals can discuss issues and a non-adversarial manner. first the dialog data back to 1990 involved the public health community and tobacco growers which led to policy changes in this body and in the house that led to the enactment of the tobacco control act and the tobacco buyout. that was environmental and many people said it could not be done. the last three years of in focus

on hard reduction issue and is often a set of core principles that were developed. additional safe haven dialogues are being planned and we're going to try to expand those discussions to include a broader number of people. fda's proposed regulations is also a place to start or stakeholders and others interested parties can make their views heard. some disagree with the specifics of the postal. i believe fda is also looking for new ideas and approaches. the doors opened and i think the fact they haven't covered issues relating to marketing and advertising e-cigarettes allows that discussion to start taking place in the agency as well. mr. chairman, and members of this committee, there is a balance that needs to be achieved which in my view can be a win-win for public health. we can deal with the issue of youth initiation of all tobacco and nicotine products including the impact of advertising and marketing as well as helping millions addicted adult smokers.

we are making some progress. it is not enough. clearly not enough and has been stated in this hearing as well. new approaches are needed just to sure as dr. kim were just told "time" magazine a few days ago and i agree with them. we need to think outside the box on some of these things. within the next 10 years i would like to see the number of children and youth initiating and using cigarettes cut by 75%. the numbers of adult smokers cut at least in half. a major shift away from the manufacturing of deadly toxic cigarettes to the development, manufacturing and use of significantly lower risk science-based regulated products. i believe that given the proper regulatory tools, coupled with incentives, innovation, research, market place competition and cooperation among various stakeholders, we can do it and we can save a lot of lives in the process. thank you. >> thank you, mr. ballin.

i almost don't know where to begin. mr. weiss, so i guess what you'rwhat youare saying is thatf had a corporate board meeting, and she decided, that the corporate purpose of your company would be to reduce cigarette smoking among adults. and, therefore, you went to e-cigarettes as a way of so doing. spent yes, sir. our corporate mission is to obsolete the combustible cigarette. >> so that we been laid necessary to the conclusion that you don't do any advertising in some of these magazines, tv, which have been discussed. you don't advertise in areas that would appeal to youth to use e-cigarettes, because you would need to do that because you have a different mission. it's the adults you're working on. you are not working on kids.

>> that's correct. were only interested in adult smokers. >> so you don't do any advertising? >> we do advertising that is aimed at adult smokers. >> is that advertising and at adult smokers the kind that was discussed by mr. myers of? >> he didn't hold up any of njoy adds. >> you understand what i'm saying. in other words, appealing to young people. >> i don't believe that our ads appeal to young people. >> boy, life is easy, isn't it? you can answer like that. all right. you are on the record there. this is to all the witnesses, but everybody has to answer. -- but not everybody has to answer but i'm worried about e-cigarette marketing reaching youth, that appears to be the case.

if people figure out a way to actually just trying to affect adults but get nine and half million people who read advertisements, 14 million people who see advertisements about e-cigarettes, that's, would make an interesting discussion. but limiting cigarette marketing to youth has been central to the multi-decade effort to prevent young people from becoming addicted to smoking, and that's it is well-established that nicotine isn't addictive ingredient in cigarettes. so, mr. myers and dr. tanski, would you agree that i made a sustained and prolonged smoking prevention and tobacco control effort, there has been an encouraging decline in youth rates of cigarette smoking in this country? >> your absolute the correct. there's been a wonderful decline

in the rates of smoking but the data fetches cannot last week showed a low of 15.9% prevalence among high school youth which is the lowest rate in 22 years. so there's been great strides in reducing cigarette smoking among our youth. >> i get the drift. now, e-cigarette manufacturers say their target audience is just adult smokers, and that the other, the youth, don't figure in. this is really, senator boxer, what gets me is this gets so to the integrity of corporate culture, and what people will do when they are given the chance to make money. i'm sorry, i just, that so deeply embedded in the that's why start out by saying i'm on edge emotionally on this whole hearing. but by blanketing a wide variety of media with advertisements, our discoveries also creating the risk of introducing a whole

new generation of young people, starting zero through five, to the highly addictive substance called nicotine? >> yes, sir. that's exactly our fear. there is a whole generation of young people who have grown up since the master settlement agreement, and other restrictions have never seen the tv addict glamorizing cigarettes, who have never seen the kind of advertising i showed you, and i could have shown you dozens more of those ads as well. and we are deeply concerned that while e-cigarette companies should be free to inform adult consumers, there are ways to do it that don't require them to put ads on the bikini bottoms of women in "sports illustrated," sponsor rock concerts. i could show you youtube's of

central and provocative images. there is a way -- >> i get your drift. now, the argument has been made that nicotine is what people get addicted to, but tar is what kills them. i'm sort of stunned by that, because of the one and the other are the same. in other words, you have to prove that nicotine is sort of good for your health for a young person. how would they possibly get say they get addicted on nicotine but they are not being tar present is good for the? >> to point. nicotine is dangerous to young people, specifically, while their brains are being formed. so there's no such thing as a

safe delivery of nicotine, particularly in the uncontrolled levels and in these kinds of things that we have seen for young persons are fda regulation we have shown that it is possible to deliver carefully to a adults release periods of time. what's going on in the current marketplace for e-cigarettes, however, is that nicotine is being delivered in uncontrolled levels with uncontrolled flavors and no quality control. and to say that that does not pose a potential risk is a misstatement. chapter five of the most recent surgeon general's report focused entirely on the toxicity of nicotine. so it is 100% true statement that nicotine isn't what causes cancer. that nicotine is not a benign substance. that's what it has always been regulated fda, and while it needs be regulated by fda in e-cigarettes to protect the public as well. >> thank you. my time is up but with the

indulgence of my distinguished recce number i just want to give mr. healy a chance -- ranking member, a chance to want i am positing spent thank you, mr. chairman. firstly, for myself i being a father, besides a businessman, and not want my in the hands of children. and it's something i think we take very seriously, but at the same time we try not to lose sight of the big picture, of the 41 million smokers like myself. we also look and watch whether it be voluntary advertising restrictions that we put in place that we actually got out of the tobacco act and we put those policies on ourselves. and we also look at who is buying. when we look at who's buying blu, the average age is 51.1 years old. so we watch both ends of the

equation -- we have to be responsible for the results. >> as i said my time is up. i apologize to my ranking member, senator thune. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. myers, assuming all agree that chile should not be able to purchase these products, what's your view on whether e-cigarettes have the potential to reduce harm if the current adult smokers of combustible tobacco cigarettes switch to them? >> as i said, if properly regulated in terms of quantity of nicotine, how it's delivered it, the man is delivered and it's targeted to a current smoker who couldn't otherwise quit, with levels of nicotine export -- i don't think there's any doubt there would be a reduction in harm. >> what's your general view with

regard to the science around e-cigarettes? do you view it as settled? >> no. science is not settled and the signs couldn't be settled because the product itself is changing. unfortunately, we haven't had this kind of rigorous science for this that we require for any other product under the regulation of the fda. our organization, i think all the other public health groups, would welcome rigorous science so that if e-cigarettes has the potential to help millions of smokers quit, we do the kind of science so that we are sure that that were selling to them will actually accomplish that goal. in the absence of regular sure what we've seen it is products h nicotine levels of enormous additional levels, high enough to be of concern and in some cases so low that the fear is that it just makes it too easy for kids to start because nicotine is harsh. the last thing we want to do is have a perfect product for a kid to start as well as advertising.

so he decides that should drive the precautionary principle of protecting our kids and how we go about developing it. >> thank you. mr. ballin, there's been a lot of discussion about the benefits and harm of e-cigarettes. in your testimony you agree with mitch zeller, the director of fda hoosiers who said there's risk for nicotine containing products. he also stated any regular sure of the structure debates on the road to risk abitibi juices but can you elaborate on how we can find the appropriate balance or e-cigarettes was some of the key players can do to further the dialogue in scientific research? >> yeah, i think what them hang around table is actually a common direction of what needs to be done. there needs to be more research. there's a question about it. there needs to be done by fda internally, nih and other places, coupled with universities and other academics, also industry has a

responsibility. there was a statement made by someone earlier that there has to be accountability of this entity. i think as the agency begins to regulate these products, anybody who wants to file an application of the 82, they will have to have the proof to back up whatever they're asking for the agency to approve a product or also allow a plane or anything else. we need to head in that direction very quickly. i agree with a lot of what's been said at this table. i think we need an aggressive monitoring surveillance system. we talked about that, many, many years over the years in the public health committee and in fda and i think it or to find out what's going on in the marketplace we need to build to tap into the industry documents, if it's not proprietary information to fda needs to do a better job of coordinating efforts to see what's happening so we can take the necessary steps to take action. there is a lot of things that need to be done. there's no question about it but i think collectively and

responsibly, if it's done properly we're going to be able to deal with some of the issues we talked about today. throwing grenades at each other i don't think will be productive. that's what over the years i've come to the conclusion that when people can sit down in a room without negotiating anything and have a civil conversation, off the wall com, off the record conversation, progress can be made. it may not be but until you start talking, you're never going to find a. i will say again for me, this thing is beginning that process and i appreciate it. >> what concerns do you have about advertising to children? and how has the emergence of the tobacco companies in the e-cigarette field changed the market or the perception of the advertising? >> for me being from the public health i have the same concerned about advertising causing the line. i don't know where that is necessarily, but i will say some of things i've seen bother me as

a public health person. i don't think banning advertising per se is the route to go because at the same time i think we need to be providing truthful, accurate information to the 40 million smokers about what these products are and how they can be used. that is what i think we need to go. i agree that we need to monitor this stuff which is what you said earlier, but there are things that give me heartburn about what i see in the marketplace. i think we need to deal with them up front in a very honest manner. >> just very quickly, mr. healy and mr. weiss, what are your companies doing to restrict advertising to children? >> as i mentioned briefly, we adopted at blu a policy that we got from the tobacco control act, and that was that in our print and television and marketing efforts that the audience be at least 85% of

adult, as i said, which is what we decided to impose and got that from the tobacco control act. >> in a nice case was also self regulator in the years this led up to this regulation, we only advertise in programming don't have a predominant adult audience whether that be on television or in print. >> mr. chairman, my time has expired. >> thank you. senator heller, you're going to be a very good person, as you are anyway, and yield to senator boxer because she is a committee chair and she's here, and -- senator heller is not. [laughter] senator boxer. >> thank you. mr. ballin, you are very optimistic men. your document sitting around a table and resolving these things. you know what it took? they all sat across there any different then you in congress

raising their hands, swore to tell the truth and then lied. and at that point we return and things began to happen and we began to make progress at that point. i just want to say we don't ask people to raise their hands because you just need to know and we all know that you have to tell the truth because of 18 usc 101. so i heard a couple things here that are not true. i just want to talk about these things. for example, i think mr. healy, you said -- it's true, it's your opinion, this is the greatest invention ever to get people off of the of the cigarettes. you said that spent yes, sender. spent i asked in an is considered a plus in the record an american hard review to review the scientific journal but have you seen the? >> i don't believe i have spent we'll put it in the record unless there's a check and, okay. and here's the deal. it's pretty well. refute. health claims and claims of

efficacy for quitting smoking are unsupported by the scientific evidence today. these are leading scientist, so mr. myers, you are to get a look at this because i don't think you were accurate in your response even. i need to go on. i don't have time. i have to make some points here. now, my two friends from the e-cigarette companies, you believe, i'm sure, that nicotine is dangerous to adolescence, is that correct? >> yes, i do. >> correct. >> and you're aware that u.s. surgeon general said nicotine exposure during adolescence may have lasting adverse cut was for brain development and adolescence are particularly bubble to this highly addictive drug. so i am just asking you because you said that you are working to get a dose off cigarettes. that's your goal and that's your mission. have you ever had a conversation in your company, informally,

formally come up with another executive about how this product could be marketed to non-smoke non-smokers? >> i can say i haven't had that conversation. >> did anyone in your company ever have that conversation? >> not that i'm aware of spend what about you, mr. weiss? >> uploading not spent what's in your cigarettes? tell me, what's in them? >> nicotine, glycerin and flavorings spent how about your? >> the same, nicotine and distilled water i would add to that list. >> are you aware there was some formaldehyde found in transit? >> yes. we've tested our products and there's no formaldehyde in the ingredients in our products spent how often do you test your part of? >> we test them pretty frequently. >> so this story that found formaldehyde had nothing to do with your two companies? >> not from mine, no spent and

not from your scripts they didn't find any in yours? >> no. the new york times was not testing our products. >> is unequivocal that you do not market to kids. so here's my question. to mr. healy. you sell your products in cherry crush and vanilla flavors. cherry crush, yet your parent company has a youth smoking prevention website, your parent country that says kids may be vulnerable to try e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors such as cherry, vanilla, piña colada. you sell cigarettes in three of those lives. how can you sit here and say you are not marketing to children? >> senator, it's a good question. flavors -- >> what's the answer? >> the answer is the average age of a cherry smoker is in the high '40s, but also we found that flavors increase, or sorry, decreases the ability,

possibility of adult smokers who use e-cig's switching back because they don't -- >> weight. why did your parent company in their youth smoking prevention website say kids may be particularly bubble to try to e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors such as cherry, the note, chemical lot at yourself in three of the flavors but are you marketing to children? >> no, i am not spent who is attracted to cherry, barry, vanilla? was attracted to the? >> adult smokers. >> that's interesting. and i would like to say that you even those are parent company called you out on it, mr. weiss, your company president committed -- committed to not selfless but now wall street investment for you will be offering a new flavors and more to come. what are these flavors the? >> there's a variety of flavors, pomegranate is one.

we have untold flavors like single malt scotch for an example. i have speak you have adult flavors as oppose to your kids lead of? >> for example, we are not offering and candy or gummy bears. >> wonderful. what are you offering. what is the list of 10. you have a? >> i don't have a list by can probably remember them. in addition, there's vanilla bean. there's also teach t. -- tgt. there's also -- >> sir, i don't have time because my time is very limited. would you make that available before the end of the day speaks of course. >> and i wanted to show the flavors that we see in e-cigarettes. i don't know the flavors to mr. weiss is not coming up with axis of evil, he wasn't going to. but i'm just going to ask our advocacy people there, the two at the end.

do you think totten can is something that's attractive to children or adults? >> i would argue that content would be attracted to children speak what about gummy bears, mr. myers of? >> i would agree, and the evidence shows that to be the case spent and popsicle? okay. so for e-cigarettes as an industry to proclaim that they are not advertising to kids and your choosing these flavors we don't know yet, mr. weiss is fled away now heard that cherry and berry, even though your parent company said that they attracted kids, you don't think they attract kids. you are wrong. you are wrong. let's look at some of the advertising. these are cartoons. they are not by your companies, other companies. i want to say to my children, advocacy people, do those look like they're aimed at children

or adults? >> senator boxer, i would agree that would be papa smurf and that would look like it's appealing to children as there are movies that are featuring the smurfs spent and as a grandma i can attest the fact that the biggest movie now, frozen, the biggest song is let it go. one of the e-cigarettes has the logo, let it glow. now, i am saying to my chairman am who i adore whether it's his birthday or not, i'm every day, i share his views on this. and i'm asking mr. weiss and mr. -- you can conjure so into thinking what you know. we don't know if this product gets people off cigarettes yet. it's not proven, not one. so don't think that you're doing some great mission, and then don't say that you really care about kids when you go against your own parent company's advice

and start using these flavors. i have some of these flavors are. i'm not supposed to touch them because they are like poison, seriously. pink -- what is this one? pink spot. gummy bear pink spot. rocket spot. gotten can be. we are seeing a repeat, and we here in this committee did it. and i'm just saying, i have a lot of of questions i'll put forward for the record, but i think all of this is very important, and i know that people in industry, you can talk yourselves into everything. and i was a young woman, doctors said, smoke a cigarette, it will calm you down. thank god my mother said, not on your life. don't be a part of this. because you will regret it.

spent thank you, senator boxer. senator blumenthal. >> thanks, mr. chairman. and like the previous colleagues, i am tremendously respectful. i'm not going to go quite so far as saying i'm adoring, but we love you, and happy birthday. >> you like my daughter, too. >> i also want to thank your staff and our staff would ask the work they've done in putting together this really profoundly important hearing, and it does have a very eerie and haunting feel. the only difference between your testimony today and the testimony that the tobacco executives is that you were not under oath. because i find in this testimony a sense of denial that i cannot

credibly accept. and the reason is that it's defined by the numbers. the latest report i the legacy foundation shows that 18 million teenagers were exposed to tv ads within a six-month period alon. it shows that njoy's ads reached 3 million teenagers. there's a legal principle that people are responsible for the natural and logical a facts of what they do because they know those effects. and you know that you are reaching children and teenagers. so i think we have seen this movie before. it's called big nicotine comes to children near you. and you are using the same kinds of tactics and promotions and ads that were used by big

tobacco, and proved so effective. i want to show you, for example, one, to begin with if we can show it. you can see our old friend, joe camel, and our new friend who is mr. cool. anybody recognize mr. cool? spent idea, senator. >> yeah. are you here denying that mr. cool a fuels to teenagers and children? >> mr. senator, that particular illustration was not a commercial. it was place on our website for our consumers. it wasn't education. now i understand it was -- >> education piece on your website of? >> yes, sir. >> so it was not in any way

designed to represent your company. is that your testimony? are you denying it represents an official act of your company? >> no. no. what i'm saying was it wasn't a commercial. it had education piece that were specifically aimed at our consumers. now, we have taken it down because when i had objections and people said to me, i think this is inappropriate, while i disagreed that the messaging was an end of children i -- >> you know what, inappropriate by the tactics that you substituted are equally so. you are one step ahead of your critics. let's look at the next visual, if we may. now, does anybody recognize him? mr. weiss, who is he? >> i believe that's robert pattinson. pattinson. >> what does he have in his mouth? >> njoy cigarette. >> helix ought like mr. cool, doesn't he?

>> he is an adult smoker. >> but do you deny in your testimony today that this ad, that the use of this image is designed to appeal to children and teenagers? >> i do. >> why? >> because he's a 28 year-old adult smoker. >> your testimony is that adult role models have no appeal to children or teenagers? in other words, if they're older than 18 have no impact on people under 18? is that what you are sitting? >> what i'm saying is that our target is to reach adult smokers and being able for them, adult smoker to the other adult smokers, that perhaps they admire are using an alternative to a toxic secret, that that's a good thing. >> well, these ads in these images are designed to appeal to children. and again, they are not only reminiscent, they really are duplicative in my view of the

tactics adopted by big tobacco. you have taken the playbook and you have modified it to a noncombustible nicotine delivery mechanism. and this hearing is not so much about the contents of the e-cigarettes or their potential health effects, which i find somewhat difficult to accept on the evidence we have so far. it's about the marketing and promotion tactic. the use of celebrities like robert pattinson and images like mr. cool, and others that oh perhaps we can reach on a second round of questioning. but in my view the evidence is undeniable that you are seeking not only to re- normalize but, in fact, to reclaim arise tobacco use and that these

products for many, many children and teenagers will be a clear path and gateway to combustible tobacco use, otherwise known as cigarettes. my time has expired or i apologize, mr. chairman, and i hope that on a segment we came here more responses. >> you have doing this a long time, senator blumenthal. senator klobuchar. >> thank you very much, chairman rockefeller. i'm a former prosecutor and the like to look at the facts. the first fact that send a blumenthal mentioned that sticks out to me as a recent study found that almost 2 million kids have not tried these e-cigarettes. that's the problem right there. can we put that picture back up their of the twilight guide? have you gone to those movies, mr. weiss? >> yes, i have. >> have you been in those theaters, because i have with my daughter when she was 16 and i can tell you that the people in those theaters for the most part are kids. of the people that read those

books for the most part are girls. and i've seen this many times because i've had to be up at 2:00 in the morning when they do the premier and all the girls go to see the movie. and so this is a birthday, a happy birthday to robert pattinson, i noticed that senator blumenthal used. do you think that really appeals to like me or senator blumenthal to wish him happy birthday? >> i can come out this repeat what i said earlier that he's an adult smoker we are trying to appeal to adult smokers spent he's an adult in movies and appeals to kids but it's a marketing technique. the third fact i want to move to was the leading issue. and i don't understand why, when regular cigarettes, they can't have flavors, right? is that correct? >> yes. >> i would ask you mr. myers, why were they banned from having flavors, regular cigarettes?

>> because congress determined after substantial evidence that they mostly appealed to young people. >> exactly. and so i don't understand why you couldn't have your product without flavors. mr. weiss? >> so, for us we get a decision we make through the lens of what is going to help us a comish our mission to obsolete secrets but because were in as an adult smokers we have not yet so any products that contain any flavors. and still as of today don't. but as responsible company prior to offer the flavors we conducted research to ensure that to the greatest degree possible we would not appeal to non-smoking youth with the flavors we would provide. so what we're trying to understand who uses our product with the goal of appealing to adult smokers without appealing to miners and we were satisfied with the results of that research which we will be happy to smith for the record. the research was conducted by a doctor was present here today and willing to answer questions to you or your staff.

>> i've got to show you just have an 18 year-old just because that's all call names on them, they think those things are cool. i think what you, mr. healy, who at the piña colada brand but i think a lot of you think those are cool. not to mention the ones that senator boxer mentioned, those flavors. i think any flavor is something that kids like. the other thing, for the fact i want to follow up on was the mr. cool and you said which was just on a website, right? >> correct. >> let's talk about the website. i understand the social media and how a lot of this is, and understand the study out this month shows the e-cigarettes are being heavily marketed on twitter, over a two-month period there were 70,000 tweets related to e-cigarettes. nearly 90% of the tweets were from e-cigarette companies and on almost all of these included a website linked. i also understand when people set up for the twitter account have to say they're over 18, right, 18 or over.

>> social media sites have age verification or certification processes that we installed. >> okay, but they are public tweets are anyone can get on the twitter account and anyone can get on youtube, right? none of the videos are age restricted, is that right? >> correct. >> i just had to check it out when my in-laws use, i don't think they use twitter, okay? they are in their 70s. but i know that all my daughter's use twitter and all use facebook and they are very adept on social media. that is putting it in a minor way. so i would think that this kind of marketing would be particularly appealing to kids and i wondered if you wanted to comment on that, dr. tanski? >> i think your completed correct that using social media is a particularly, reaching young people are to the point of the age restriction, the websites for electronic cigarettes to my knowledge right

now most of them say are you over 18 and you say yes and your in, rather than having the double forms of age for vacation that they do on some of the combustible tobacco websites. it's far easier to say yes and you can get right in. i agree that the protections to use our relatively weak to be able to access some of this social marketing. it's very powerful as you noted. >> okay. mr. myers? >> i completely agree. it isn't 70-year-olds were looking at twitter or the youtube videos that are out there. and we looked at the age verification on the e-cigarettes sites including lorillard and it is nowhere accountable to what it is a set of requirements for cigarettes. so it's a dual standard, one allows young people in much, much easier. >> i just want to conclude here in my closing argument as a former prosecutor. ..

>> i've got tell you that most people over 50 are not going to know who robert pattenson is, as much as you'd like to think it. and just that he's 28 years old and has 28 candles, justin bieber's over 18 too, but if someone put him out there even though he's over 18 years old, i don't think that anyone is going to think that is marketed to adults. so this is my exhibit d. so thank you very much. i just think that, to me, when you look at all these facts, there's heavy-duty marketing

going on to youth, and the last thing we need is for them to get dependent when we've just started to see such success. thank you. >> i'm going to sneak a question in before senator nelson. mr. healy, you said that you're a smoker? >> we, chairman. >> for how many years have you been a smoker? >> i started at 23, and i'm 40 and two months, so i'm not good at math, but a fair amount of time. >> and you're using e-cigarettes to help you get rid of your cigarette. >> well, to be honest -- >> i'd like to hear about how it's working. how long have you been doing it, what do you notice? >> to be honest -- >> i don't believe, i mean, i think what you're -- from mr. myers over, i think you're all talking into the clouds. in terms of facts. you're disingenuously trying to say something which you should

not be saying, but to your credit, you're trying to get off of tobacco, and so how is the e-cigarette helping you do that? >> i was, i can only speak to hi personal story. i was smoking a pack and a half of cigarettes a day. now at best i will smoke five tobacco cigarettes a week, most -- a lot of times none. so it is, and it makes it very difficult for me asen -- as an e-cig smoker, being that it doesn't taste and remind you of tobacco, it's difficult to go back to tobacco as consistently as you were. >> all right. and one other question. the, have you ever, does can lorillard allow distributing of free samples to kids? >> blu distributes -- >> i mean, blu. >> yeah. samples to verified 18-year-old or above smokers. >> and how do you know that

they're 18 or above? >> we have machines that they have to provide, firstly, provide their driver's license, state driver's license, and then the first question they're asked is are you a smoker? they said, no, their experience with us ends. if they say, yes, we talk to them about the product, and they can acquire a sample. >> so you think that's a virtuous civic duty that you're performing there? >> i think we should be responsible particularly when handing the product to someone. >> senator nelson. >> mr. chairman, as usual, you have picked a hearing on an important topic of the day, so thank you very much. i want to ask dr. tanski, you testified that there was the recent increase of nicotine poisoning cases in young

children. are these cases mainly coming from children getting into the refill vials of liquid nicotine, or are you seeing the poisoning cases from the kiss pose bl -- disposable e-cigarettes? >> unfortunately, senator, we don't actually have that level of detail. what we know is that the trajectory of the number of calls has been increasing for electronic cigarette and nicotine devices very rapidly with 251 calls in just the month of february. we don't have the kind of detail that says if they're coming from the refill devices or not. my personal suspicion is that's the greatest likelihood for the kids to get into them rather than the whole cigarettes themselves, the whole electronic cigarettes themselves. >> you also note that there are currently no standards for governing child-proof packaging for these liquid nicotine bottles, and i would like, mr.

chairman, if this this has not already been entered into a record, it's a photograph of a number of these liquid flavors; banana split, cotton candy, kool-aid, sweet tart, gummy bear, fruity loops, rocket pop, hawaiian punch. doctor, would you support giving either the consumer product safety commission or the fda express authority to enforce child-proof packaging for toxic or harmful household substances on all of those liquid nicotine containers? >> absolutely, senator. it is critically important that we protect youth and children especially from these nicotine-containing products. everything else in your home that is toxic pretty much has a child-safe cap on it whether

it's a bottle of bleach or the medications from the pharmacy. they're all contained in something that is harder to get into so it gives that extra time so that a parent can be there so they don't have a toxic exposure. so i ask for your help. we believe that fda has regulatory authority over the packaging, although it's not yet been commented on, and i would encourage you guys as the committee to, please, help us. i think consumer product safety commission should consider, if possible, to include their oversight to include this as a toxic product. i know that at present tobacco products are excluded from the packaging regulations, but perhaps that should be revisited, and this should be considered somehow different from other tobacco products. >> maybe all the more needed, the gummy bear actually has aicture of gummy -- a picture of gummy bears on the label. mr. weiss, you have stated that

there should not be restrictions on responsible advertising of e-cigarettes or other types of these nicotine vapor products. tell us what is responsible and what is irresponsible advertising in your industry. >> responsible advertising is trying to reach the more than 40 million adult smokers in this country over almost 500,000 of whom die every year prematurely from tobacco-related illness. it's trying to reach those people and get them off of the toxic parts they're currently using is a responsible thing to do. irresponsible, i think, would be the use of cartoon characters or images, trying to target children with advertising during television programming that appeals to children and things of that sort. >> well, is it responsible to show an e-cigarette that looks almost exactly like a come bags

cig -- combustion cigarette in a television ad? is that responsible? >> i believe it is, was i think for -- because i believe for most smokers if you ask them what an electronic cigarette is, they think it's a complicated object with a lot of wires, and it was important for us to let them know it's as easy as possible to transition from one habit which is, unfortunately, a habit that's going to prematurely end their life to another habit. >> for an adult who knew all of that. but what about for a kid that's looking at that tv advertisement? doesn't the message send to that kid that doesn't know the sophistication of what you just said that it's okay to have either one? >> no. that's why we have in our messaging, for example, friends don't let friends smoke which was our ad campaign that we did earlier this year. that's the kind of ad campaign that i think the public health

community should support. >> i think that's where you're going to run into some problems. in the public sector, we've been through this with tobacco and children. we have seen how tobacco companies have tried to hook children through the seductive advertisements on nicotine, because once they get 'em as a child, it's going to be tough all through their life as an adult to get off of it. and i think you are going to have some significant pushback on blending and blurring the two. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator nelson. senator markey, would you forgive me if the power structure of the -- [laughter] has arrived? and was actually, was actually -- [laughter] no, the power structure is here. with coffee. and black coffee, no sugar.

and we're actually going to give a presentation before all of this started. but because he was the power structure, he was doing something that required the use of power. so would you -- [laughter] yield for a moment to senator durbin? >> i think that -- >> you have a right to remain silent. [laughter] >> i spoke, i spoke on the durbin amendment on the house floor in 1987, i think it was, which was the first first amendment ever brought out on the house floor to ban be smoking on flights two hours or less, and that amendment passed by a vote, so we're here with a historic figure on this issue, dick durban. [laughter] so i'd be willing to hear. i'm sure it's a historic presentation. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] >> i want to thank the chairman for his kind remarks and also my colleagues, and thank you for your patience. i'm going to submit my statement for the record and first acknowledge the presence of matt

myers. matt and i have been in this struggle for a long time trying to save and spare kids from tobacco. and what it does to 'em. and we know when addictions start, they start in your adolescence. if you can sell an addictive product to an adolescent, you've got 'em. you may have 'em for life. and that's why a lot of marketing is done for children. back in the day it was just bald-faced marketing, joe camel and everything you can imagine. and the kids were wearing t-shirts and hats and, sadly, becoming addicted to products that would absolutely be the end of their healthy lives if they weren't careful. and now we have this argument by the e-cigarette industry that is just an accident that all your advertising and marketing is appealing to so many kids. that's a little hard to understand. i think it's hard to believe. look at the numbers here. e-cigarette use among nation's kids is on the rise.

cdc released data last year showing in one year, from 2011 to 2012, the percentage of middle and high school students who used e-cigarettes more than doubled. they would have you to believe that just happens, it's an accident. we know better. the same study found that one in five middle school students who reported using e-cigarettes had never even tried a conventional cigarette. this wasn't about finding a way off of smoking, this suggests for many young people e-cigarettes was a gateway to nicotine addiction and to smoking. the new study by jama goes even further. middle and high school students who use e-cigarettes more likely to smoke traditional cigarettes, less likely to quit smoking. this didn't come from some liberal think tank. jama, pediatrics. according to the 2014 surgeon general's report, many kids and young adults who are occasional smokers go on to become daily smokers. i'm not going to give the whole statement here, but there's one part i do want to refer to

because it hearkens me back to an era, senator markey, that you will remember well. it was 30 years ago, if you can recall this time, when those seven tobacco company executives appeared over in the house of representatives and took an oath that cigarettes and tobacco were not addictive. now lorillard, one of the executives represented lorillard, lorillard's back arguing they don't market to kids. look at the analysis recently published in the journal of pediatrics. between 2011 and 2013, exposure to e-cigarette marketing by children age 12-17 rose 256%. 24 million kids saw these ads. that's no accident in the world of big business. lorillard's blu e-cigarette accounted for 80% of this advertising targeted at 12-17 years old. it's the same battle, mr. myers. we've been at it before. they want to addict these kids,

this time to an e-cigarette which has a chemical that's addictive. we know what it leads to. sadly, it leads to tobacco addiction, disease and death. i don't believe there is a case to be made for e-cigarettes being sold to children. i hope this committee feels the same way. >> it does. thank you, senator durbin. senator markey. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and just going back to dick durbin, that was the historic debate on the house floor, and that was the beginning of the banning of smoking on airplanes in the united states, and we still are in your debt, dick, for that day. it changed the whole course of history. my father died from lung cancer. he smoked two packs of a camels a day. he told me at age 12, he said he knew i'd be starting to smoke very soon.

he said to me at age 12. that's what, that's what year he started to smoke, and he knew i would too. and he was urging me not to, as was my mother, at age 12. because my father knew then that when he started smoking, maybe in 1930, that the same thing was going to be true when i was a boy, and the same thing is true today for boys and girls, huh? that's when the temptation is greatest, and that's when we have to be most aware of it. because the marketing to them is what makes it seductive, and then once you've got 'em, you've got 'em for life. and so that's really why we're having this hearing, because the marketing of this, the allure of this so superficially attractive that we know that all of history tells us that it's targeted at young people, at kids. and it's always been that way. and i miss my father, and i wish he had never smoked two packs of camels a day, but he couldn't break the habit once he was into it.

once you're on, you're on. so we know the technology is a very good thing. we have transformed rotary phones into iphones, turned sunlight and wind into electricity and plants into life-saving drugs. there are certain things, however, that do not need to be reinvented, repurposed or modernized, items that serve no societal benefit whatsoever. the cigarette is one of them. yet new cigarettes have exploded into the marketplace known as everything from e-cigs to advanced nicotine delivery systems to vaporizers. like many other new technologies, these products are designed to appeal to youth, are more accessible to youth and are explicitly marketed to youth. be and because of this, we are focused on a revisitation of the history books. we know what happened in the past, we know what's happening right now. after more than four decades of research, there are several incontrovertible facts. nicotine is addictive.

it affects brain development, and in combination with tobacco, it is responsible for claiming millions of lives. these facts are true and were true decades ago at the same time as big tobacco willfully, consistently, publicly and falsely denied them. today e-cigarette sales in the united states alone tops $1 billion. use of e-cigarettes by high school students doubled in just one year, and more than 20% of middle school kids, typically age 12-15, who use e-cig relates have never smoked -- e-cig relates have never smoked a traditional cigarette. this is not at all surprising when one considers the way these products market particularly to youth and how these products are available in a myriad of flavors from cotton candy to kool-aid grape. in the 1950s, chesterfield cigarettes claimed they were the best for you and left a clean, fresh taste in the mouth while, and today white cloud e-cigarettes promises the gift of fresh air.

in the 1940s philip morris promised their product will provide freedom from throat irritation and virginia slims and other tobacco companies advertised cigarettes as touches of freedom that equated smoking with women's rights. today blu cigarettes have a campaign called take back your freedom, promoting the use of their products in spaces where traditional smoking is not allowed. and in the 1970s lorillard advertising executives suggested walking a fine line in packaging design to insure that packaging was geared to attract the youthful eye, not the ever-watchful eye of the federal government. today's electronic cigarettes are no better than the marlboros of the 1950s. cotton candy-flavored vapor, liquid can contain just as much nicotine and sometimes more as a traditional cigarette. cherry crush e-cigs pose the

same addiction risks as joe camels of the 1970s, and we know from years of research that flavors attract young people, and the younger a person is when they start tobacco use, the more difficult it is to stop. we know that if a kid hasn't started to smoke by age of 19, they're not going to start. we just know that's a rule. so you've got to get 'em before 19, okay? because all the social pressure is no longer effective anymore, okay? just a rule. so you have to market younger. that's just the way it works. got to find replacement customers for those who have died. so, dr. tanski, if you could give me a yes or a no, is the nicotine that is present in e-cigarettes and e-liquids any less addictive than nicotine in traditional cigarettes? >> no less addictive than anything in a traditional cigarette. >> mr. weiss, mr. healy, do you agree that your products are just as addictive? >> i agree they contain

nicotine, and we do acknowledge nicotine is addictive. >> so you agree. do you agree, mr. healy? if that is the case, mr. myers, and they're addictive, then what possible argument can they make in order to keep these products on the market or targeted towards children? >> it's particularly the reason we're concerned about the kind of marketing that we've seen and the kind -- and the use of flavors that we think have traditionally been shown to appeal to children. >> for many, the thought of santa claus brings back nasal ya of childhood cookies and big white beard. host children would not think of santa needing e-cigarette. other examples including images of car troops bring back -- cartoons bring back flashbacks of similar strategies used by traditional tobacco companies.

mr. myers, do you think there is a chance that these images could appeal particularly to young consumers? >> i think there's no question about that. and our concern is, it's a generation of consumers who have been protected from this kind of advertising. and so it's the first time they'll see them. >> do you think it's a coincidence that it's actually called cool in the same way that kool cigarettes with a k back in the earlier age was meant to be the entry level for a kid to finally reach camels, but it would be a softer entry for the kid to be able to go kool first and then move on to the harder cigarette? >> it requires a level of disbelief to believe that it could possibly be a quince sequence. >> yeah. so cool was a word then, and it's a word now, and each time it's trying to get the young kid into the pattern of smoking cigarettes. mr. weiss, mr. healy, do you agree with mr. myers about that, that that's really what the

intention is, to entice a kid into doing something that's cool that, ultimately, is going to potentially lead to real health consequences for that young person? >> absolutely not. our product is intended for adult smokers. i could understand the opinion if smoking wasn't and we created smoking. we didn't. we created our product for smokers to get them away from combustion cigarettes. >> mr. weiss, mr. healy, in your testimony, in the materials presented to the committee, you repeatedly state your target audience are adults, and we continue to hear it right now. will your companies commit to not using these types of materials that could be expect today particularly appeal to children? -- expected to particularly appeal to children? will you agree to not use that type of advertising? it was used when i was a boy. you're using it again today. we know why young kids used to say i think i'm going to smoke kools first, so will you agree not to use that kind of advertising in the future? >> that particular -- we have

removed at least a year ago, so we've committed to never using that again, correct? >> well, will you commit to not using any kinds of cartoons in the future, mr. healy? >> i will agree to that, yes. >> will -- >> yes. yes. >> no cartoons in the future? >> correct. >> will you chit to going through your -- commit to going through your social media sites to erase any past images such as those who appeal to those who are young kids? >> yes, absolutely. we rigorously go through and will continue to do so. >> will you agree with that, mr. healy? >> i believe blu already has. >> dr. tanski, companies create the impression that e-cigarettes are a way to eliminate cigarette use altogether. this has been acknowledged by the american legacy foundation who stated that some brands focus their message more responsibly on smokers to quit combustible use. let's briefly view a recent television ad by fin e-cigarettes, a brand that has recently surged in popularity.

♪ ♪ >> to the land of the free -- [inaudible] to independence, the freedom of choice, to equality. there was a time when no one was offended by it. that time has come again. fin, electronic cigarettes. rewrite the rules. >> so to repeat the closing line, there was a time when no one was offended by it. just smoking amongst other people, indifferent to how it might impact on them. but that time has come again, says the ad. the message seems to be promoting smoking as a new favorite pastime for young, attractive consumers. dr. tanski, based on your review

of e-cigarette marketing messages, do you have any concerns that these products are glamourizing smoking in general? >> yes, i do, senator markey. it's clear that many of these images are quite glamorous and quite attractive, and they really are taking a lesson from the 1950s playbook of the back in companies, and that is a significant concern as we've all heard. i just want to make a point that when kids, when young people see these ads or see people who are using electronic device, it's very indistinguishable for a young person to make the distinction between what is someone who's smoking versus vaiping. my own kids are pretty savvy, they're 13 and 11, and they know what i do, and i've shown them videos and packages, and i'll say what are they doing? they'll say, they're smoking a cigarette. it's very difficult for kids in particular to understand that there's a difference. so we really are seeing, i fear, a renormalization of that kind of image and behavior. and it's glamorous, it's sexy, they've got very cute models who are vaping, and our kids don't

recognize the difference. so it really is significant cause for concern. >> do you agree that blu's tagline, "nobody likes a quitter," may be encouraging continued nicotine and tobacco use by those who would otherwise quit altogether? >> that, again, is a significant concern, that we're maintaining dual use rather than getting people to completely quit their come busted tobacco product. >> and let me just, mr. healy, many corporate companies collect data about their consumers, do you collect information about the demographics of your customers? >> yes, sir, we do. >> could you provide the age demographics and the other information to the committee? >> yes, i could. our average consumer is 51 years old, but we can give you the total data, supplement the record. >> mr. weiss, would you do the same? >> yes. >> for the committee? okay, i thank you so much. i think that, um, we know what's going on here. you don't have to be dick tracy to figure this out, and we

understand the advertising, we understand who it is being marketed to. we understand that you've got to get someone under 19 to start smoking, or else you've lost them most likely as a customer. so, mr. chairman, i thank you for this hearing. i am fortunate i never had a cigarette in my life, but that was just because my father knew he had made a big mistake, and he made it, along with my brother, a very strong admonition to me. but this was just an avoidable catastrophe. and we just have to make sure that other young people who were not brechted the way i -- protected the way i was aren't actually made vulnerable by the marketing of these companies, because otherwise it's just another gateway like kool cigarettes used to be into the worst that can happen to someone from a health perspective. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator markey. we're going to have a second round because, if senator blumenthal doesn't ask a second

round, i'm not going to speak to him. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i would -- >> before you start -- >> i would respectfully request another round. >> before you start, i'm going to give can my conclusion -- give my conclusion. i think this whole thing is nothing more than it's all about the money. i think it's uncreative, i think it's nasty. it's like pornography, in my mind. what's toic between the one -- to pick between the one and the other? in fact, what you're doing is much more dangerous. i'm ashamed of you. i don't know how you go to sleep at night. i don't know what gets you to work in the morning. except the color green of dollars. i've never said anything like that before, but i've never in hi 30 years on this committee have i ever heard testimony such

as given by you sole two, and by you sir. what i want to do is sented you to the -- send you to the middle east. you should go to the middle east and settle that, and then come back and talk to us more realistically. but for you two, you're what's wrong with this country. and the profit motive is good. but only if it's aimed at something which is for the general benefit of the public, and that could be stretched a little bit. because the public likes to be entertained. i can't say professional basketball is necessary for the existence of democracy this america, but people like it, so let's go ahead. but i think this your case you don't have that -- in your case you don't have that leeway. it's simply a matter of the dollars, the money that you rake in, the 256% increase in two

years in advertising. and then you say it's only for the adults, not for the children. when everything else that's come out of this hearing says otherwise. i think it's dreadful. i yield to senator blumenthal. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for giving us a second round. and, again, thank you for holding this hearing. i want to begin by joining senator durbin in thanking matt myers for his longstanding historic and heroic efforts in this area which go back decades, and, in fact, we've worked together for a couple of decades on nicotine addiction and tobacco use which are a continuing problem in this country. let us never forget despite the fact that this hearing is on e-cigarettes that the evil of tobacco and cigarette use remains as a primary cause of death and addiction in this

country. and if there is a redeeming fact about your products, it is the possibility that it offers quit mechanisms -- yet unproven -- but at least perhaps a glimmer of hope. it's the advertising and promotions and the pitches that bring us here today. and so let me begin this second round of questioning on a sort of a positive note. in the war against big tobacco, so-called, i was privileged to help to lead that effort close to 20 years ago with lawsuits that eventually led to settlements. that produced great advances. not alone, because it took an act of congress in the tobacco control act to take another step, and we still have more steps to go in the battle to redeem public health in that

area. but let me ask you, would you be willing to come together, to sit down, to commit to reaching a settlement, an agreement, a protocol that stops any possible ads and pretty pitches that appo children and teenagers? >> i mean, i'll answer for njoy. we are committed to not, we do not want to attract anyone who is not an adult smoker to our products, and we've committed to fda regulation. we've been long supporters of fda regulation for the category for them to make the science-based, data-driven decisions. >> i'm asking you to commit to something more specific which is to join in talks, specific discussions involving others in the industry, the major players

just as happened in the tobacco area that would produce protocols and agreements, for example, to avoid use of tv, to avoid use of cartoon characters, to require identification at point of sale similar to what was done in the tobacco era? >> we would be willing to have conversations. i wouldn't be willing to restrict television advertising because it's an effective means of -- >> well, of course it is. it's a attractive means to reach children. i'm asking you to join in conversations that would involve others in your industry, and i'm asking this question of mr. healy as well. it would at least consider what has been true of the tobacco industry, its avoidance of the use of tv ads. >> i would welcome the ability to sit down and discuss it. as i said earlier, it's not my intention to sell this product to children.

the 41 million smokers. so i am not averse to sitting down and discussing all possibilities of how we do that and eliminate tobacco. >> and we're not talking here about intent, because i am sure that your companies have not done what the tobacco industry did, which is to do marketing studies that we discovered when we brought lawsuits that showed that despite all their claims under oath, in fact, they had studies showing that their marketing tactics were aimed at children, had the effect of reaching children and appealing to children. i know you're a lot smarter. you don't have those studies in your file. but this hearing is not about what you say your intentions are, it's about what the effects are of your marketing strategies, your promotions, your use of celebrities. and let me just show you just to complete some of the tableau here, i am sure, mr. healy, you

recognize this individual. >> that east jenny mccarthy. >> and you know what product she's using. >> blu. >> and would you deny that this kind of promotion appeals to teenagers and children? >> i would deny that. >> you would? and even though she's a celebrity, even though she's in an obviously suggestive pose here, you would deny it has any appeal to teenagers and children? >> yes, i would deny that. >> would you say she is smoking in this proto -- promotion. >> she's vaping. >> vaping? so to go to the point earlier, you don't see any confusion between smoking and vaping in this ad or any of your promotions? >> of course there is some confusion, but in order to defeat tobacco and cigarettes, we have to appeal to smokers. >> let me show you another

official document from your company, it's on your, i believe on your web site, is it not, as part of what you have called the smoking, lorillard inc. smoking prevention program. do you recognize it? >> no, i don't. i'm here to represent blu, not lorillard, so i'm not sure where that's from. >> it's your parent company, isn't it? >> i don't even know what you're showing, sir. >> well, let me -- can i have one of the staff give it to, and by the way, mr. chairman, could i have all of these documents and the visuals shown by both senator markey and myself and others on the committee made part of the official record? >> [inaudible] >> thank you. do you recognize that document? >> i believe it's from i forget the technical name, but the site that lorillard sponsors. but they're not responsible for the messaging or have any

editorial control. again, i'm here to speak for blu, this is not -- >> well, if it's a lorillard document or it's on lorillard's web site, you're saying lorillard's not responsible for it? >> this is not lorillard's web site. >> is it on yours? >> no, it's not on mine either. >> so it is not part of real parents, real answers, what you need to know about e-cigarettes? >> i assume it is, but -- >> you assume it is? you've never seen it before? >> i've never looked at the site in depth. >> you've never looked at the site in depth even though it -- you are here representing blu, are you not? >> correct. >> well, let me just ask you then as someone who has never seen it before, it says for the first time in 43 years smoking ads are returning to tv with advertising. and you'll have the -- to accept

my representation that this is part of a presentation called real parents, real answers. it's sponsored by lorillard inc.'s youth smoking prevention program, and it says that smoking ads are returning to tv. are those your ads? >> our ads would be some of them, yes. >> and it says kids may be particularly vulnerable to trying e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors such as cherry vanilla, peen ya colada and berry. that's a warning about flavors, is it not? >> that's an opinion of the person that created the site. >> the person who created it, and it might be lorillard. but, of course, you haven't seen it before. >> lorillard did not create this site. i know of it and the business behind it. they sponsored it. and at the bottom of the site it states cites the opinion of the -- [inaudible]

not lorillard. >> well, let me show you a couple of charts on flavors. would you say that this kind of promotion or ad appeals to children? >> it's completely inappropriate, and i would agree with you. be. -- >> and it is part of what the industry does, yes or no? >> it's one brand in particular, i believe. it's not what i do or -- >> so wouldn't you agree that as a, in quotes, responsible marketer -- and you're in the business of promoting and selling these products -- that an industry-wide agreement to ban those kinds of cartoon characters would be a good thing? >> banning cartoon characters and the use of in our advertising, i agree. >> so would you commit to come together and reach another master settlement agreement that

provides for a wan -- a ban on this type of inappropriate marketing, the use of people like jenny mccarthy, sports and rock concert sponsorships, all of these kinds of same protocols and agreement with a result of the tobacco industry coming to the table? would you agree to do it? >> i would agree to sit down to discuss how we effectively eliminate tobacco, but i would not sit down to discuss how i relinquish my first amendment rights and losing focus of the big picture that we could eliminate tobacco here. >> well, may i suggest respectfully that i would have more respect for all of the answers that you've given today knowing that you're the messenger, you don't make the policy if your companies would

commit to help lead and make yourselves part of the solution, not the problem. and the problem here -- i just want to stress again and i've said it repeatedly -- is not your product. we're not, i'm not passing judgment on your product. there's not enough science to draw conclusions as yet. i view it skeptically as a means of quitting or cessation. but i'm not passing judgment on the product. i'm passing judgment on the marketing and promotion which create a clear and present danger of addicting another generation, addicting another generation to nicotine which is among the most powerfully addictive drugs known to man. and it is, in fact, the ingredient in cigarettes that makes them so pernicious and

insidious because it hooks the user to a device that kills them. cigarettes kill people. and if your products are a gateway to cigarette use, they are aiding and abetting at killing. so i hope you'll rethink some of your answers. i hope that we will have another forum where we can revisit some of these issues and that we can move constructively toward some kind of solution. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator blumenthal. senator nelson, i think you had a question. >> earlier in my comments i noted the toxicity of the concentrated nicotine in an e-cigarette refill liquid. let me ask the two gentlemen, mr. healy and mr. weiss, in

addition to the nicotine what are the other ingredients in the liquid nicotine? >> speaking to the blu product, the five key ingredients are propose lean gliokohl, glycerin and vegetable glycerin, distilled water, nicotine and natural and artificial flavors. and. >> and in our product it's nicotine, probe line gliokohl, glycerin and also flavorings. >> are any of those other than the nicotine harmful substances? >> so we've tested our products, and we support the, the fda's harmful and herbally harmful -- potentially harmful testing for these products, and we're submitting our results to the fda and are very comfortable with the results that they are orders of magnitude safer than combusted cigarettes. >> but as to the substance

itself being harmful or not, i didn't understand your answer. >> so the substances are generally regarded as safe in foods. they haven't been tested in terms of epidemiological studies and inhalation in humans over large periods of time. >> do you headache a complete listing of finish make a complete listing of all these substances in the e-cigarette liquid available to the public? >> yes, i do. it's on our web site. >> yes, sir. >> i would just note for the record and ask that it be inserted, it's just been brought to my attention, here's a billboard at christmas time in miami on i-95.

a picture of what appears to be a santa claus-like figure. i don't always vape, but when i do, i choose vapor shark, kris kringle. so you are utilizing the seasons of the year. i would add this to record, mr. chairman, very, very attractive models all promoting these products. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you all, and the hearing is adjourned. >> thank you. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> a top obama administration official says no one, not even children trying to escape violent countries, can illegally enter the united states without eventually facing deportation proceedings. but homeland security secretary jeh johnson basically acknowledged yesterday that such proceedings might be long delayed. you can join the conversation on our facebook page. here's the question, should president obama use executive power on immigration? and here is what some of you are saying. paul kelly offers: not unless it's to order the national guard to the border to forcibly evict the invaders, especially the teenaged ones. he could at least address the neglect, and if they knew of

this in advance -- which appears likely finish -- the fact they probably caused it. >> and, again, we're asking for your input. go to our facebook page, facebook.com/c-span, to offer your thoughts. >> live on wednesday morning, british prime minister david cameron answers questions from members of the house of commons. watch prime minister's questions live on c-span2 at seven a.m. eastern. >> this afternoon a look at mexico's efforts to boost oil and gas production. mexico's ambassador to the u.s. and a panel of energy executives will talk about the recent decision to allow private sector access to state-controlled energy market. watch this live on c-span at 1:30 p.m. eastern.

>> coming up later today, a discussion about the israeli/palestinian conflict. panelists will talk about the future of palestine's unity government, the stalled peace process and the recent death of three kidnapped israeli teens. the wilson center hosts this discussion. our coverage is live on c-span at four p.m. eastern. >> c-span2, providing live coverage of the u.s. senate floor proceedings and key public policy events. and every weekend, booktv. now for 15 years the only television network devoted to nonfiction books and authors. c-span2, created by the cable tv industry and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> charles best runs one of the most popular micro philanthropy platforms. he spoke at the new york ideas

festival, and he talked about impact of technology on our lives. this is about 15 minutes. >> so charles best, cover boy, among the most celebrated and innovative ngos anywhere in the world. >> that's kind of you. i'm going to interrupt. when i was a public high school teacher in the bronx, donors choose.org was just an experiment that my students and i would work on during our after school hours. there was one person in the world of philanthropy who saw our potential, and that was darren, who brought me in with my students, to let people see what we were up to. [applause] >> because you were doing this amazing innovation, but now you've become very much associated with a new sense of philanthropy. and i want you to reflect on a quote that i am inspired by and

challenged by when i think about our work at the ford foundation. and it's a quote by dr. martin luther king about philanthropy andty land throe piss. and what he said is that philanthropy is commendable, but it must not -- it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of injustice in america which make philanthropy necessary. >> uh-huh. [applause] >> and so i want to, i want to ask you to reflect on that in your own work. you have created a platform that is one of the most popular platforms for micro philanthropy in the world. are the people who are on your platform, are they thinking about the injustice in american education when they click to buy that playground or that trip to the met for a student in the bronx? >> well, that quote which weighs

on me and inspires me, i think, evokes an understandable criticism of donorschoose.org which is that you are betting private citizens let government off the hook when citizen donors step in where the system is falling short. and are you not inviting state legislatures and governments across the united states to stand down now that donorschoose.org is here? and, of course, if that were true, i think we'd all quit. and what we see happening is that when someone gives to a classroom project on our site, very off -- there's a 70% chance, in fact -- that this is their first real encounter with what's going on in public schools on the other side of the tracks. they emerge from their giving experience fired up, politically angry because they've just had a much more vivid encounter with the unmet needs of students in low income communities than if

they had read statistics in a newspaper article. so a large proportion of our donors actually say that they are more likely to vote in an education budget referendum or take some other form of systemic protest as a result of being on our web site. it was energizing rather than reassuring when they encountered these classroom needs. and there's several more things that we're doing to change the system itself, but i'll let you go with your next question. >> so are you building a movement of angry people about public schools? [laughter] is, is, are you raising the consciousness of these people who -- and i'm one of them -- who sit in their comfortable homes and go online and look at your pictures of these terrible places that we can't believe are american schools and try to -- are you building a movement, are you about a movement, or are you

a nice platform that allows people to go and buy classroom products for kids? >> yeah, yeah. well, you as the audience will be the judges. you each have a $25 donorschoose.org that our board of directors has underwritten so that you can choose the classroom product to support. this is the gift of giving that stephen colbert, our board member, gives to every guest on his show. when you find the classroom project that makes your eye twinkle and you spend your $25 on it, you let me know be if that was an experience which makes you feel like everything is now okay or whether you've been awakened to needs and challenges that you didn't know existed beforehand. but we do think that we can show the world that crowd funding -- doe -- donorschoose.org is not just a thousand points of light of sort of feel-good, one-to-one connections, let people ask for

stuff, everybody can feel warm and fuzzy. there's two ways that we think we can help to change the system itself, and i'll give you just headlines rather than go into them. one is by piloting a third way on teacher performance pay where teachers get donorschoose.org classroom funding credits commensurate to student educational outcomes. think of it as a performance bonus, but one where the currency is not cash money, it's classroom funding credits which has made this flavor of merit pay much more amenable to the teachers union and the teachers themselves. one way. the second way is by letting inventers and entrepreneurs circumvent the educational industrial complex and introduce new inventions and new tools directly to teachers without having to hire a force of sales people and lobbyists. and the third way is by opening up our data so policymakers and budget makers can see what resources teachers most need in brooklyn or what louisiana high school teachers are thinking

about as expressed by the projects that they're creating on our site. we think we can give voice to teachers at the budget making and policy-making table by opening up the data generated by the 600,000 classroom product that is a quarter million teachers have created on our site. >> so what's been the biggest surprise for you? when i first met you, you were really naive. [laughter] you were really naive. and i was so inspired by your naivete -- [laughter] and your determination to make a difference in the lives of these kids. and so over these years what's been, if i were to say tell me your biggest surprise? >> there are still district leaders who want to shut down donorschoose.org because they don't like the idea of getting, of teachers getting funding for books that they might not have approved of or going on field trips that deviate from the

mandated curriculum or just getting any resource that they're not personally authorizing and controlling. and this began in our first year when we were operating out of my classroom in the bronx and another teacher in the bronx got funding for a field trip to go up the hudson river on a clear water vessel. she had gotten oceanography training the summer before, and she was going to take her students fishing, testing the local -- taking water samples, learning about the hudson river, ecology. students had signed -- parents had signed off, principal had signed off, and when the district administrator heard that this field trip had been funded through our site, he told the bus driver to turn around right as they got to the hudson river and 86'd the field trip which was the similar reaction to a school pral principal in chicago who told a teacher she would be fired if she used our site again. the first project was very respectful of the school, but it revealed the school didn't have

dictionaries just by virtue of requesting them. >> so we shouldn't be angry about the inequality, we should also be angry about the system and the bureaucracy. >> that's right. >> and i think the question is how do you navigate that politically? because what you're doing is politically very combustible and very disruptive. >> i think we're still taking some comfort in that naivete. and, you know, initially we just kind of circumvented the powers that be and the bureaucracy by going directly to teachers. we do keep school principals in the loop every time a project is funding, and we tell them what materials are enroute to the school. but the teacher does not need to, first, have paid their dues or get the higher-ups to sign up. they do not need the sign-off of anybody. they can create that project, and if citizen donors think it's worthy, it's coming to life. but where we are kind of

ignorant is how to get the powers that be to pay attention to what our teachers are trying to tell them in the projects that they're creating on our site. we know we can create killer infographics when we open up our data, high school teachers think it's most effective at getting kids hooked on reading. we don't know how to get policymakers to pay attention to those infographics. >> so you're also not just an innovation platform, you are innovating in actually what the demand is by what you see. you see a lot of things that i would imagine come in trends and that could certainly be aggregated with policy implications. and yet you don't have a foot in the policy making. >> that's exactly right. we're going to need to partner -- we think we can be the best at creating an amazingly vivid giving

experience and liberating teachers to tell the world about their best ideas for helping students learn. we'll never be that great at lobbying, so we're going to need a partner for that. and speaking of the trends that we see, i'll give you just one example because it shows not just policymakers should be paying attention to what teachers are trying to tell them on our site, but so, too, should schools of education, trained teachers. we noticed not long ago there were a lot of special education teachers who would request books on our site for students to read to therapy dogs. because they had concluded that special needs students are often very reluctant to read out loud in front of the classroom because they're afraid they're going to be taunted. but if that same student is given a book to realize to a therapy dog, they've now got a 100% attentive, nonjudgmental, rapt audience, and this student can absolutely blossom as an orator. and schools of education are not hip to this discovery. this is only, this is the kind of thing that strictly teachers,

classroom teachers on the front lines using their kind of primary street expertise that only those folks come up with these insights. and yet i think it would enrich the training of any special education teacher to know that this is a neat little trick for getting a special needs student to come out of their shell. >> so let's switch gears from the bronx to notting hill gate and your friend, gwyneth. so you, i understand, have recently -- she's joined the charles best bandwagon. and so what is this goop thing that i keep hearing about? >> well, she doesn't know me from adam, but she does know donorschoose.org, and i was just noting that this newsletter that she creates has an incredible following. it's always been interesting to us to see which media outlets generate the most ati