unintentionally. its program is about an hour. >> host: "please stop helping us how liberals make it hard for blacks," author jason riley. if i were to tell you that i've

taken this around me for several cookouts are just around town, political circles and it has raised a few eyebrows, just title alone become and sparks conversation, what would you think about that? >> guest: publishers would be happy to hear that. it's not surprising. i've had a similar reaction. when i went to get the jacket photograph taken the photographer was black and ask me what is the title of the book and it started a conversation. >> host: you touch a lot of third rails in this book. you go from president obama, you talk about the voter id and even at the conclusion the third rail that you touch and i want to talk about that a little later on. george zimmerman and people in the black community. talk to me about how you have come up with these thoughts and

brought things together for the book that typically is not thought of in the way that you have written in the black community. >> guest: a lot of it comes from people that i dedicate the book to do the black conservatives that affiliate of thatthe hoover institution and academics who have done a lot of research in this area and have written about it for many years. and i'm familiar with their work and thought the younger generation of blacks should be saying the things they are saying for a new generation of readers and that was a part of the impetus for writing the book. >> host: you are an independent and he starts chapter number one black man in the white house. talk about that, barack obama. >> guest: barack obama's presidency in the first election of 2008 was kind of the culmination of the civil rights division.

that pushed political power as a means of raising blacks in america. and i think it games with the civil rights act of 64 and the voting rights act of 65. since then, however, liberals, black liberals in particular have made political power a priority electing more officials and the obama presidency is the culmination of that vision. i want to say we have that now. to use the data term what do they have to show for it and that is really what prompted that chapter and what i get in there is the history of groups that have gone that route. they push the political power and they push economic power. >> host: and you talk about those in the civil rights you talk that thutahthat the indust. tell me about that.

>> guest: well, yes i think what you have on the left today is a group of individuals and organizations and the big battles have been fought and won. the trouble they have today convincing people. they are the true problems blacks face and i think they have become parodies of what they used to be under king. the naacp spent its time coloring the nation reciting the confederate flag or the use of the n-word is saying there you go. see nothing has changed. don't hold them responsible for the social economic situation today when we still have donald sterling out there or someone raising a confederate flag in the tea party rally and i think that is a search for relevance. i don't think the racism in general is what is primarily

holding blacks back today and racism hasn't been the primary berry or to the advancement for some time. >> host: i want to go back to something you said. battles have been fought and won when it comes to the community. what did you say to the disparities and the jobless rate in this country? african-americans still to this day have the highest unemployment rate in the nation. it's been bringing us to the country and obviously there are disparities in education. there are predatory lending situations where they have these loans that make them default or foreclosure. there are so many other issues out there that is just in the criminal justice system as well and that's one of the reasons president obama came out after the georges mirman verdict because there is a thought and feeling in fact that

african-americans are at the disproportionate level giving higher sentences for things like crack cocaine and also in jail for different things versus a white person. as a talk to me about that when you say the battles haven't been won. >> guest: i take issue with the premise that you pointed the unemployment rate and said for instance that they've been that way since we came here to this country. as you go back to the first part of the 20th century as far back as the 20s, 30s and 40s and even into the 50s, you will see black labor participation rate tire than white labor participation rates. you will see if you go back to the census studies coming out of slavery in the 1870s and 1890s while off into the

1940s, you will see the rate of two parent households hire him on blacks than among whites. so, you have to look at the trends that were already in place before some of the major civil rights legislation passed. you have between 1940 and 1960 the 40-point drop in the poverty rate in america. 40 points between 1940 to 1960. before the voting rights act. before the civil rights act. that trend continued after it was passed, but at a much slower rate. at best they were continuing the trend. >> host: with lbj the war continues and i understand you talking about the consensus of the slavery in the 50s and 60s but that quality of what kind of jobs there is a big difference.

they are versus being in the lower end of the spectrum the kind of jobs for agriculture at variance and housekeepers and things of that nature. >> guest: that's not what i'm talking about. blacks were joining the skilled professions at a faster rate prior to affirmative action policies which began in earnest in the 1970s than they were after those policies were put in place. teachers, craftsmen and so forth joining the provisions at a higher rate prior to the passage of these. again, almost without thinking we credit is like a form of action for helping to swell the ranks of the black middle class and increase the number of the college graduates. in fact affirmative action has had the opposite effect. we have 40 years of evidence to look at regarding the affirmative action policies. i will give you a quick example. at the university of california

in the empir entire state syste, racial preferences were banned back in 1996 and a voter referendum. after that dan took place, black college graduation rates at the university of california rose by more than 50% and they also rose in the most difficult disciplines of math and science and engineering. again by more than 50%. a policy intended to increase the ranks of the black middle class was in fact producing fewer black college graduates and then they otherwise would have had. >> host: in the book you cite the justice clarence thomas.

>> guest: i think they will say let's look at the track record of what is working and what isn't working when it comes to something like affirmative action with the evidence shows is that affirmative action is mismatching kids with schools and what i mean by that is that it often sets up kids for failure and takes smart kids that might do well to a less selective schools and then that's more selective school they are more likely to drop out altogether or switch to an easier major. a quick example of this is a study done at mit. blacblack students at mit some s ago. the students enrolled at mit scored in the top 10% on their math sat scores. of all of the kids in the country regardless of color that they were in the bottom 10% at mit. so, you take these very bright kids who would just be hitting it out of the park at a less

selective schools. they are at mit struggling. and as a result many don't graduate of mit doesn't care about that. they care about how the freshman class works. whether it looks like there is enough diversity and whether the college catalog has the right look. but for me someone who is concerned about the level of public graduates in this country i would like to see more of them graduate and the evidence shows me that more graduates than the absence of affirmative action policies than when we have affirmative action policies in place. >> host: please stop helping of how liberals make it hard for blacks to succeed. the author with us today jason riley. this is a very hot conversation. i'm thrilled to be sitting here talking with you. i really am because it is interesting to hear what you have to say. as you are going back as a

reporter i get a different set of facts but it's for the listener int and the reader ande viewer to make the assumption, and i appreciate what you have to say. >> there are lots of footnotes and there is an index people can look it up for themselves. they don't have to take my word. >> host: let's go back to the affirmative action situation. we have seen it in the university of michigan talking about preference. we heard about these opportunities in the bush years with the university of michigan, but i want to talk about the examples that you give at mit, but what about places like harvard university that really go out and recruit african-americans to come in and they give them scholarships to read they give them thousands of dollars for scholarships to come to the schools in harvard university and amherst have been

battling back and forth between being the number one school to graduate. >> guest: many of them are black immigrants mightily. they are not people that grew up in a subculture that i talk about in this book and which are graduating from the schools and any of them are immigrants and you find that when you look at education across the country come and in particular in the big cities here in new york where i live you have some selective high schools and the kids have managed to get into those schools do tend to be immigrants. so, there is that. but the issue with affirmative action again is are we helping the intended beneficiary? when you lower the standard for the admission, are you helping or hurting the child's chance of graduating clicks and i think the evidence is overwhelming.

>> host: in society today you are no one and i hate to say this but you don't make anything if you don't have a college degree. >> guest: why are we assuming that it's for sale or nothing? >> host: we were talking about mit. so i'm bringing integral to the table harvard if they've named other schools and made appeals that harvard has been very prominent in how they -- >> guest: i have no problem with harvard recruiting kids. the problem is when they recruit for those that can't handle the work because they want to make the freshman class more diverse. that's what i have a problem with. where they can handle the work and they are more likely to graduates like most people in america. they go to school where they can handle the work and you see the higher graduation rate when the

person entering as a freshman when their credentials match the credentials of the average student at the school that's where kids graduate. >> host: very interesting conversation. i want to talk about another topic. again, let's go back to the title of the book please stop helping us how liberals make it hard for blacks to succeed. voter id. it's been a very big issue in the black community. especially since the last couple of years even before the president. we've been talking about this issue and its 100% with this president. i want to read a piece of your book that says it so happened to black voters turn out suppressed the white turnout on the record in 2012 even while more and more states were implementing these supposedly racist voter id laws. about two thirds of the three

eligible blacks 66.2% voted in the 2012 presidential election higher than this thank .1% of the non-hispanic whites who did so. talk to me about the need for or if we don't need a voter id in your opinion. >> guest: the reason that i addressed this in the book is because i think it is shameful the way that the attorney general eric holder's and others have essentially been going around the country trying to scare blacks to the polls that the wall is being passed to disenfranchise them and the evidence doesn't support that. it's interesting that trend predates the obama presidency in case someone dismissed it as a phenomenon of having a black president. that trend dates back as the

census makes it clear to the clinton years when the turnout was steadily increasing. and the other point to make here is that it's not only the most democrats and republicans and men and women and conservatives and liberals support a voter id so do most black americans. so, the president is out there telling people that support voter id and the majority in a number of polls taken in the recent years have shown this. he is telling them that the republicans are not interested in the ballot integrity. they are only interested in suppressing votes. and my point is giving the voter trends and turnout trends they are trying to suppress. they are doing a pretty bad job of it given that voter turnout occurred also and went up as you mentioned in the statistics on

the strictest voter id law in the country >> host: some question whether the voter id is reminiscent and promotes procedures in the past when it comes to voting for blacks. you need an id to get a library card. the idea that it's too much to ask of people. it is quite insulting and i think that again most agree with me because a majority of them have told them repeatedly they do support the voter id. it is wide and deep in the country. he would never know that listening to the rhetoric, but it is and has been for a long time.

i'm sitting with the author of please stop helping us how liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed. very, very hot topic i think and before we go any further you might have your supporters who think i'm cheering you on. but let's find out who you are. we understand that you sit on "the wall street journal" editorial board and urls are a contributor at fox, fox news coming at you are an independent, correct? where did you get your ideas and start out this way? did it happen all of a sudden or did it start growing it into someone help shape your ideas flex >> guest: it happened gradually starting in the late

teens very politically aware as a young teenager i didn't live in a political household we didn't sit around discussing politics in my family in my immediate or extended family. but in school through social studies through the courses of the time you are required to do some report on current events or read a newspaper and i started doing so. in college i started reading the authors like shelby steele and what they said made a lot of sense. and i liked the fact that they brought the deed to the discussion and they were not just shooting from the hip and speaking from experience is in many cases with people like shelby steele, and it resonated with me.

they were trying to show me the way or point me in the stretch and. >> host: where did you graduate college? >> guest: new york buffalo. i graduated from there and i was born and raised in buffalo. >> host: talk about your influences. you come from a divorced household. your mother cared for you and your father was in your life? talked to me about that and how it relates. as it relates to president obama and how he talks about fathers. >> guest: i grew up in a home but only where my father had a huge amount of influence even though he didn't live with us my parents were divorced when i was younger but my father had visitation rights three or four days a week, weekends, holidays, he was a presence in my life coaching little league baseball and things like that. but i also have an extended family .-full-stop strong intact

families that was just quite common. everywhere i looked whether it was my church, extended family, i saw men all around me that went to work in suits and ties. it was just the norm. i have too many role models to o count but my father was very much a part of that. and my mother, despite the diverse always appreciated that aspect of him that he stuck around. he was around for his kids and grandkids. >> host: since you have something that unfortunately many kids including president obama did not have. >> guest: i would love to hear him speak like that and i wish

that he would do it more often. the point i was making is the flak that he catches on the left from black intellectuals in particular when he says these things. he is accused of talking down and condescending. it's more about airing dirty laundry making the same arguments that raise concerns talking about blacks. talking about culture as the real corporate and a lot of what ails the underclass today is quite taboo among blacks. those are fighting words. and one of the reasons we don't talk about it more often is because he catches so much flak. but i think that he is dead on

when it comes to these issues. when it comes to staying off drugs and staying in school, getting married or having children, is extremely powerful. and that hasn't just been shown anecdotally. there is hard t social science d empirical data backing that up and so i wish him all the best and i wish he would talk about it a lot more. we are talking about race an ana dvd that this time there is racism in this country? >> guest: of course and i will not live to see a time when there isn't. but the question isn't whether it exists. it's what extent is racism a

barrier to progress in this country and when i look back at what blacks achieved when racism was much more open and overt and even legal, it's hard for me to draw a connection between racism and 70% of the community or double-digit unemployment rates in the community. given that in previous times they faced many obstacles in the country we had better outcomes in both of the categories. >> host: please stop helping us how liberals because harder for blacks to succeed. jason riley, when you are on fox news or writing the columns for "the wall street journal" do you include this kind of conversation or dialogue that is in your book? >> guest: i do commentary on

television on all types of topics. most of them not having to do with race that when it comes up, sure. i see these types of thing thind recommeni'vewritten in this boon fact, that's where i said vendors either in the pages of "the wall street journal" or the publications over the years order on television. i have been doing television commentary for about a dozen years now. so there've been many opportunities to speak about these issues and i try to take advantage of them. >> host: what has been your response from the civil rights leaders to sum up this? have touched these anyway and backing up with the endnotes with what is the response? >> guest: there is a lot of name calling. it is a lot of childishness. unfortunately what you don't get is a lot of engagement of the idea.

instead you put on the couch. you've seen this happen with clarence thomas. justice scalia is wrong on a number of issues if you are a liberal, but clarence thomas isn't just wrong. he is a sellout. he has got psychological problems. that is what the reaction typically has been. that's usually coming from black elite. independent tree of journalism or politics i get a different reaction. there is a naacp rank-and-file

and i think they are wide differences. and it is unfortunate to me that many of the media, many in the media continue to run to the house sharpton speak on behalf of blacks and over the past decade the interest of the jesse jackson and al sharpton is diverged wisely from what the black underclass in particular needs in terms of the public policy. >> host: before we go to break and after we come back we are going to talk about more of these issues that you dare to touch in this book. does it bother you when you hear the community rise up against you for what you say? >> guest: that would be a little melodramatic. no one likes to be called names. i don't believe that. but i believe these things need to be said.

i don't think liberals and the policies that are put forward would help the black underclass furthermore i don't think they are not just not helping. i think in many cases talking about affirmative action earlier that they are harming. they are doing more harm than good. that's what motivates me. they are saying what needs to be said and it is a positive contribution to the date and that is an important debate. some name-calling is something that people put up with. >> host: jason riley "keys stop helping u"thesestop tellins make it harder for blacks to succeed." we will be back with this conversation in a moment. he wod

like to download and listen to "after words" while you travel. >> host: we talked about third rails. you are touching that on the conclusion of this book when it comes to president obama's addressing the nation in the surprise announcement or speech to the nation that friday about almost a week later after the verdict and i'm saying you touched the third rail. for whatever reason i was on the andy and i had to be in florida, landing in orlando florida the night of the georgia cinnamon verdict and it was across the airport and across the state of florida and a week later almost, president obama came out to the

briefing room to the press corps and he spoke from the heart. he knew about racial profiling and things of that nature. >> guest: it seemed that he had its instructions on what it could take into account and what it couldn't. mainly that was a different matter what the scenario was in terms of who is following who. what mattered in terms of what the jury was told that there is a memento of his life was in danger. but what i took to task is whether it was gun control or racial profiling or the perception of young black man in

the country and how he wanted to talk about that. i think jimmy we should have a conversation about how young black men are perceived. but we cannot divorce the conversation. that is from black behavior. they are not coming out of nowhere. and so, i don't think we can talk about racial profiling without talking about the black criminality. and that is not a conversation many on the left want to have. there was a law professor that wrote a book that i talk about in my book. she complains about the black incarceration rates, but she doesn't want to talk about any of the behavior that leads to those incarceration rates.

as we pointed out, the gap in 1960 was narrow than it is today. it is wide now and obviously if you think there was a system out there responding were responsible for these incarceration rates that had to be a chore racist bac were raci8 and is today. >> host: since you bring this up and you are talking about georgia cinnamon into the acquittal and racial profiling. at the end of the day there is a young man that was bad for a -- more a hoodie. >> guest: he was viewed suspiciously because of the color of his skin and the way that he was dressed. and i don't have any doubt about that really.

>> host: why do they proceed that way? >> host: there are people that where hoodie. i have a martha's vineyard to hoodie. am i wrong if i have my hair pulled back you don't know if i'm a man or woman wearing my hoodie. >> guest: if we have a problem with black men being perceived as more likely to commit crimes, we need to do something about the crime rate behind those perceptions. we need to do something about black behavior. >> host: what in your opinion should be done not just by black lawmakers but by everyone. the federal government, state government coming universal. what should be done to prevent these from happening?

>> host: >> guest: with wha >> guest: with what we should stop doing. the obama administration's response to the problem is to go easier on criminals. he wants to reduce sentences for drug offenders. besides from that in schools, he wants kids suspended at lower rates than they currently are because there is a disparity. >> guest: regardless of who is doing the bullying in the schools. >> host: many people are not fully aware or they may not be about the disparity. at one time in the 100-1 disparity where those who had -- were using crack cocaine got a much larger sentences than those that did powder cocaine.

who is the one -- what is the group that is thought to do cocaine into the group that is thought to powder, white america so that disparity has been whittled down in the administration said there is a racial element. >> guest: do you know who but the initial ratio in place by >> host: bill clinton had a chance to pull it down. >> guest: the congressional black caucus. >> host: they had a chance to pull it down and they did not. >> guest: the lawmakers at the time wanted law-enforcement to crack down on this. it was driven by black lawmakers in the disparity. is it, to turn around all these years later and say it was racially based it is not accurate it's rewriting history.

>> guest: >> host: they have to start hadt from the base of the environment or at the time. when they were working at the time and they kept moving it down they hav had to start the s to move it down. >> guest: one is to increase the sentencing. you don't have to reduce the sentencing for the crack offenses. there is another way to make it equal. secondly, i think that no one is asking why the administration said that these are with the drug dealers and not the victims of their crimes. how does it help the black communities to help these guys returning back to the neighborhood sooner rather than

later? how does that help the law-abiding individuals of those communities? and of course the majority of black people that live here are law-abiding and they have to live through this nonsense because of the thugs that make life a living hell for them. similarly in schools. how does it help the kids that go to school to learn. where are your sympathies? mine are with the law-abiding residents is. my sympathies are with the kids in school are to learn. i want to see them achieve and get ahead. and it's more difficult for them to do that. but some of these policies that are being put in place in the name of helping the black for. i think they are having the exact opposite of that. >> host: you talk about several other items in the book. current issues to include the minimum wage and immigration,

these hot button issues right now and we are talking about the hot conversation. the author, jason riley "v. .-full-stop helping us to liberals make it hard for blacks to succeed." talk about your feelings of immigration as you've been writing about that and what you say about immigration reform. >> guest: this book i don't get much into the immigration reform and i will say that there have been some conservatives who have wanted to scapegoat for high black unemployment rates and i don't think that the data backs that up. if that were the case it we see high levels of immigration, we should see lower levels of black employment and vice versa but that isn't what the data shows the black unemployment as you know has been doubled for decades and it's been irrespective of immigration

trends in this country. i don't think that it should be scapegoating for the unemployment rate. on the minimum wage, and again aanother policy that is intended to help the black poor, but it is another poor and high poverty tool. most poor people make more than the minimum wage. most of that make the minimum wage are not poor. poor households are in that circumstance typically because no one is working in the house. not because they are people working at jobs that don't pay enough to what they need is a job more than a raise and to lift themselves out of poverty so to the extent of the minimum wage laws are out of the labor market to the extent that the result in a reduction of jobs

overall on the economy, they don't help address poverty even though the left continues to sell minimum wage hikes as an anti-poverty tool. >> host: as we talk about minimum wage and you write about the minimum wage if we talk about other issues that are in this book please stop hoping us to liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed, what is your commitment? do you think is leaving the civil rights leaders to help the black community? community? >> guest: i think it's important not to be put into the groupthink. it's important not to say that right thing for the fear that he will be called names, and i think it's amazing how the spheres can take hold.

i remember going to visit my older sister back home in buffalo shortly after they started "the wall street journal" and i found myself in a conversation with my niece, her daughter asking her what the subjects were and she stopped me in the middle of the sentencing said why and she turned to her little friend sitting there and said don't sound bite. why are you trying to sound so smart and i laughed basically. but it stuck with me. here is an 8-year-old, 9-year-old already linking up race with intelligence and knowing the sophisticated enough to avoid certain speech patterns herself and mock them and others 8-years-old. i had forgotten how young this stuff starts.

>> host: you have experienced that. michelle obama, oprah winfrey, so many african-americans have experienced that when you are not necessarily trying to have the street lingo in the business world. >> guest: there are limits to the government benevolence and they must help. >> host: so you are talking self responsibility. >> guest: getting the culture in order i think those are the things that need to take place. they need to develop the type of attitudes and habits and behaviors other groups in america had to develop.

it does more harm than good. >> host: when does the political structure get in the way? because you have the republicans here, democrats here, they are not coming together and the question is you have groups of people that are in need and there is fighting off looking at the groups of people, but yet -- >> guest: i don't know that there's a political solution to what i'm talking about other than encouraging the government to get out of the way to stop doing some of the things it's doing. when you block them from attending the schools or better public schools you are not helping beas matters and that is what the democrats and many liberals continue to do. push the policies that signed with the teachers union and the adults in the education system over the needs of the kids in particular poor kids who often times are black. >> host: it's interesting that the republican party

particularly george w. bush's first-term they were trying to get more of the black vote and then katrina happened and they knew it wasn't going to happen and that the numbers were just -- >> guest: you have republicans here and there who are trying. paul ryan comes to mind and they suck their vote and in the past that people like jack kemp but those were all exceptions to the rule. i think that republicans still believe they can win without the black vote. i don't believe that racial animus is writing but the pragmatic group of time. but more than likely to go to where you're going to get a better return on your investment of time.

republicans are starting to think that they need more latino voters and you see this big debate going on in the gop over how to do that outrage. there is no such debate going on among the republican party. they need black voters to win elections. >> host: after this presidential evil action and out of the white male do you find that a problem? they are now realizing that there was a problem. they are gender specific and race specific white male. anything else falls along the side and they are trying to play catch-up. do you find tha that is a pandeg move to say that we have to do

this or do you think they need to really broaden their underground because this is one country, not necessarily just one country for one group. >> guest: i associated more with the left than you would call identity. appealing to hispanics as the cynics and the gays as gays. i think there is pandering that goes on and i hope republicans don't go that way. i hope that it a very unified message, but at times both parties have been guilty. do you feel that? >> guest: sure. and i think that they will have no choice going forward given the changing demographics. the question is how they go about doing that.

and we will see. but again, right now i -- with respect to black voters i don't think that they are making a series of reach to the naacp convention every four years is not a black outreach. standing up saying i support outreach i think they need to go into the neighborhoods and into the churches and introduce themselves and not let their democratic opponents define them and when they have done that. when they have done that i think that it -- i would like to see more of that. >> host: talk about the independent party and its outreacoutreach and it's under f effort if it is one or not one. talk about the independent. >> guest: the independent voter? >> guest: post for those people that are lumped in and are undecided, i call them apartments of themselves.

they can tell you how an independent is going to vote if they get or follow-up questions. people like to call themselves independent. >> host: they are an important group. they are the third party. a lot of these elections are coming down. we will see. but i think both sides probably want a broad bigger tent i should say that you're right republicans in particular i think it is something on their mind right now but i would say more so with respect to latinos and blacks at this point. >> host: once again we are talking with jason riley please stop helping us how liberals make it harder for blacks to

succeed. he has been giving his thoughts that have footnotes and all facts and figures that he is basing his information on but as you look through this book i want to go back to the unemployment rate and talk about the households where there are people that don't work in this household. >> guest: what you have in the households in most of them there is no work. what they need is a job. the best anti-poverty program is a job, not an increase in the minimum wage. people already make more than this minimum wage. >> host: so these people that are not working and relied on the government sometimes people fall through the cracks and they need to have training programs and things of that nature to bring them up out of where they are to get into society again.

>> guest: i don't think that a majority of them are. i think that you are talking about a culture of dependency generation after generation after generation. the stigma is gone in many cases. what these people need is a work ethic and i don't think that open-ended programs develop a work ethic which is ultimately going to be their ticket out of poverty. what is the guideline to change the dependence of the black community on the liberal party in your opinion? >> guest: we have to stop making excuses and the black culture certain attitudes that are counterproductive for instance. that is something that needs to be denounced and not swept under

the rug. it has to be denounced and forth rightly so. we have to announce that black kids are scoring worse on standardized testing graduation outcomes and so forth not because the teachers are using these methods of instruction. >> host: to be playing on the family structure? >> guest: it's because we are reading device as much and we need to come to terms with that. there are cultural problems. they are not necessarily political problems. we have to help blacks in this regard, and i think that it's what the government can do beyond what it's done in terms of passing the civil rights act by passing the voting rights act, getting legal recourse when they feel they've been discriminated against, but beyond that there's not much the

government can do and we get in trouble when we start doing what johnson called for the turn of the great society program he said what you want equality as a result. he wanted equal outcomes. you're not going to get equal outcomes based on human history not in the u.s. or anywhere else. you are not going to get the proportionate outcomes of the type. it is an unrealistic goal. it is up to the groups themselves to take advantage of that and that is something that black leaders of old used to understand. if you go back to frederick douglass or go back to the perky washington this is what they were saying. they were optimists. they said i think we are going to have them one day. but the more important job is to read the people and to be able to take advantage of those

opportunities once we have been. and that has been the failure of liberalism in my mind. is that they have not prepared to blacks through the policies that they have pushed to take advantage. we have created a people that see themselves first and foremost as victim victims and t helpful and it has to change. >> host: so the liberals have helped to enable the community. >> guest: the worst aspect of the subculture that they have helped today. >> host: and also at the time when the minority group in this country will alternately wind up being the majority in the years to come soon but at the same time you are saying that african-americans should take the self-control responsibility that when you are talking about pulling the government away from this, where does the community come in?