a broader foreign policy. so i don't see her -- that's not how i see it. that's not how the president sees it. i don't think we should assume that the president, that the secretary clinton or anyone else must agree when it% with the president on every single decision he has made either before or since. but she has been incredibly loyal to the president to he is very appreciative of it. all of us who work with her are very appreciative of it, and so i suspect will be a lot of criminology into every word she says for a long time, but i'm not concerned about that. .. >> is it going to hurt the president if she starts to [indiscernible]. >> i do not think so. in a long list of concerns that i have in my life, political and otherwise, this is pretty low in my list.

i do not think she's trying to distance herself, i think she would say she is. decisions that were made when she was secretary of state into the things that we have done now, it is a fairly natural thing. what is notable is given the very highly charged primary campaign the two ran against each other, only six years ago, it is notable how close the relationship is, how close they have been on core issues and their loyalty to each other. >> thank you for doing this. we appreciate it very much. [laughter] thank you. are you having a good time? did you do anything fun? >> i had dinner with [indiscernible]. >> how fun.

>> here's a look at her primetime schedule on this he's been better -- on our c-span networks. coming up, another chance to see dan pfeiffer talking about the agenda. on c-span two, virginia congressman scott russell discusses relations with russia. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> today secretary of state john kerry, just back from a trip to the middle east, will give a speech on u.s./india relations at the center for american progress. we'll have that live at 1:30 p.m. eastern time on c-span3. then leaders from the nation's largest jewish organizations and communities gather in washington to show support for the people of israel.

they'll join members of congress, the obama administration and other dignitaries at what's being called a national leadership assembly for israel. scheduled speakers include national security adviser susan rice, house speaker john boehner, majority leader-elect kevin mccarthy, and ron dermer. you can watch that live today at 2:30 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> next month on booktv's "in depth," former republican congressman from texas and presidential candidate ron paul. he's written more than a dozen books on politics and history with his latest, "the school revolution," on america's education system. he takes your calls, e-mails and tweets live for three hours sunday, august 3rd, at noon eastern. and tune in next week for author, historian and activist mary frances berry, and in october court sessions, both past and present. best selling author and historian michael korda in

december, in depth on c-span2's booktv, television for serious readers. >> next, bbc parliament's westminster review, taking a look back at the major events in the british parliament since april. topics include the leadup to the september 18th scottish independence referendum, changings to the house of lords and the malaysian airliner that was shot down in ukraine. alicia mccarthy hosted this one hour program. ♪ ♪ >> hello there and welcome to westminster in review, our look back at all the big events in parliament since easter. coming up in the next hour, the government gets a stamp of disapproval as tens of thousands of people are forced to wait weeks for their pass ports.

>> this is a sorry shambles. >> the government will do everything it can while maintaining the security of the passport to make sure people get they are passport in time. >> the horror of jimmy sal's sexual abuse is revealed. >> he was a callous, wicked predator. >> there's passionate debate on both sides as peers debate the rights and wrongs of assisted dying, and after the european elections, we ask what what nowr the e. u.? but first, they may still have been munching the final fragments of their easter eggs, but hen they came -- when they came back after the recess, everything was far from sweetness and light. business ministers were forced to robustly defend the privatization of royal mail. the value of its shares went up by more than a third on the day of floatation, and the spending watchdogs criticized the handling of the selloff,

accusing the business d. of rushing the sale. but appearing before a committee of mps, both the business secretary and his senior minister insisted the selloff had been a success. >> these shares were undervalued when they were floated. >> well, i don't want accept that -- i don't accept that. this was a successful floatation. we expected it to go to a premium on the first day. you'd certainly have been critical if it had been wrongly priced and had fallen below the offer price and people had lost a great deal of money, including the employees who worked for the company. >> the departmental approach seemed to be to do everything to insure that it was sold. value for money for the taxpayer was a secondary interest. >> no. >> the very strong, unequivocal advice we reffed if we had attempted to push the price to the upper end of the range, there was a very high

possibility that the large number of people would simply walk away there the transaction. >> all of the evidence suggests to me that you were motivated by a fear of tail your. i understand that -- failure. i understand that. i'm happy with that viewpoint. but at least the general public needs to know that that's the motivation, because by all accounts they lost, the taxpayer lost between $1.1 and $1.2 billion pounds or whatever you say about sporting your -- supporting your argument, you were wrong. >> no apologies, no regret. >> absolutely no apology and a recognition -- and, i think, mr. fallon used this phrase, it's a good one -- hindsight is a wonderful thing about price. that in given the circumstances at the time and the facts that we have available to us, the correct decisions were made. >> but the issue reared up at prime minister's questions the next day. >> there were no conditions on

the hedge funds, but there were conditions on other groups by the postal workers. can he explain why postal workers were told they couldn't sell their shares for three years but hedge funds were told they could cash in on today one? and, mr. speaker, who wrote these hedge funds? they've been very coy. none other than the chancellor's best man -- [cheers and applause] so why is it, mr. speaker, if one rule if you deliver the chancellor's best man speech, but it's another rule if you deliver the -- [inaudible] what this shows, mr. speaker, he can't talk about the deficit because it's falling. he can't talk about the economy because it's growing. he can't talk about jobs because there are one and a half million more people in work. >> david cameron. well, it's the government's competence over the sell off were the royal mail was being questioned, it's confidence in --s confidence in another area was being questioned by

tens of thousands of travelers. it was estimated by some that up to half a million applications for passports were stuck in the system. caught up by a surge in demand. the normal three week application process had reached six weeks in some cases. calls to explain what was going on, the home secretary said the majority of applications were being dealt with in time, but you knew that was little consolation for people waiting for their new passport. >> the government will do everything it can while maintaining the security of the passport to make sure people get their passport in time. there is no big bang, single solution, so we will take a series of measures so we will take a series of measures to address the pinch point and problems it faces. >> this is a sorry shambles, and the home secretary who can't even bring herself to say the

words. government's incompetence means people are at risk of missing their holidays, their honey be moons, their businesses. every mp has been inundated with these cases, and the home secretary hasn't seemed to even know what was going on. businesses i know receive weekly updates about the flow of applications and the turn around, and it is beyond belief and not credible that ministers were not aware of this problem before it was raised in this house. >> yesterday at prime minister's questions, the tens of thousands of people were having their holidays canceled because of passport delays. meanwhile, after the association -- [inaudible] they've seen no increase this holiday cancellations because of passport delays. who should we believe? would the home secretary apologize to my constituents who are foster parents, they applied for a passport for their foster

child, corey, and weeks later they had a phone call from the passports office to say that the passport was on its way. then they booked their holiday. six weeks after that they still hadn't got a passport. so corey, the foster child, wasn't able to go on holiday with his parents. will she apologize for that? >> all mps at this time should be assisting their constituents through this unprecedented demand and this difficult time, not cheap, smug, self-satisfied -- [inaudible] >> the conservative, caroline -- [inaudible] there was one other government respondent which surfaced in the commons the last few months, the planned introduction of universal credit. the controversial scheme which rolls six working age benefits into a single payment was meant to cover one million people by last april. but the program has been reset amid continuing problems. it's now being rolled out to another 90 job centers, and more

changes are to be made. >> we expect and believe according to the plan that we laid out that everybody will be on by 2017. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i think it's the first time i haven't heard the secretary of state say his project is on time and on budget. but we've still here total and utter complacency. it'll take a staggering 1,052 years before it is rolled out. so what do we have? universal credit delays, personal independence payments delayed, loiment and support allowance -- employment and support allowance delayed. his incompetence is not only wasting tens of hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayer money, but it's also causing pain and hardship for some of the most vulnerable people in our country. >> this d. and this government has entered into the biggest welfare program, and we are

getting record numbers in work, record falls in unemployment, more young people into work, more young people who have been long-term unemployed back in work. the benefit cap, 42,000 people have been capped, 6,000 as a result have been moved to work. universal job map of 6.9 million people registered. the work program -- you don't want to hear this stuff because these are all records of success of welfare reform. >> iain duncan smith defending his universal credit program. but, of course, when it comes to government competence, this man is really only concerned with one thing, the performance of the economy. the chancellor, george osborne, has been keen to don a hard hat and go around the country showing that with unemployment falling and confidence growing, business is, in fact, bouncing back. it's a point he's been hammering to his labour opposite number in the commons too. >> and let me be clear, we said we would get the deficit down,

the deficit has come down. we said we would recover the economy, and the recovery is taking place. he predicted a million people would lose their jobs, and a million and a half jobs have been created. >> all promises, he's broken those even on the deficit, and living standards aren't rising, they're falling year on year on year on year, mr. speaker. 1600 pounds is worth -- [inaudible] >> if this chancellor really thinks his economic plan is working, let him answer this one simple question: at the next election after five years of this chancellor, will working people be better off than they were in 2010, yes or no? [applause] >> of course britain will be better off, because we won't have the mess of an economy on the brink of collapse. >> george osborne in a characteristically robust

exchange. down the corridor in the lords, many of the big issues of the day came up, but there was also a small, quiet revolution. take a little look at this. >> third reading of the house of lords reform number two bill. >> hi lords -- my lords, this bill be now read a third time. >> that this bill be now read a third time. as many -- [inaudible] the contents have it. >> i beg to move that this bill do now that's pass. [laughter] >> the question is this bill do thousand pass. as many as are of that opinion will say content? not content? the contents have it. >> lord steele. now, that may not appear to be anything extraordinary, but it marked the passing of the latest attempt to introduce changes to the house of lords. the bill being approved there

allows peers to retire or to be thrown out for nonattendance or for breaking the i law. the plan has been through half a dozen different versions over several years and even this time went right to the wire of the parliamentary session before clearing its final hurdle and getting assent in the full pomp and pageantry of the ceremony of -- [inaudible] the very next day. >> house of lords reform act. lorraine labolt. >> the lords reform vote just squeezing through on the last day of the session. the program for the next parliamentary year and the list of the new bills the government wants to make law was due to be introduced in the state opening of parliament a couple of weeks later, so mps and peers took a break. campaigning was in full swing for local elections in england and northern ireland and european elections. the results, when they came, were dubbed by some a skeptic

earthquake. in the united kingdom, the u.k. independence party topped the poll with just over 27 better of the vote. labor came second with the conservatives just behind and the liberal democrats beaten into fifth by the greens. across europe the number of meps euro-skeptic party doubled. the u.k. correspondent for one of germany's biggest selling daily newspapers. so, stephanie, the success was not a surprise to many people here, but how was it seen in the rest of europe? was it a shock to leaders there? >> well, it was kind of a shock that not only u.k. was so successful in the united kingdom, but that there were so many other very critical or euro-critical, anti-european parties being very successful. in france, especially, then in hungary and also in germany for the first time you had a party that is not anti-e.u., but anti-euro that had more than 7. >> what's the, what's been the

european reaction to the decision of david cameron that he wants to renegotiate britain's position with the e.u.? >> it has been, in general, quite critical because it's seen like, oh, everyone's a special treatment while, again, they already have a special rebate when it comes to the budget, they're not part of the -- [inaudible] area, they have not opened their borders. they do not cooperate in other areas, so why do they now want to renegotiate the european policies? >> and do you think it's a suggestion angela merkel is open to? would she be willing to get into renegotiation with david on? >> i think that's -- cameron? i think that's now a very critical question because it is known that angela merkel has a very good relationship with david cameron that was proven last year, actually, she invited david cameron with his wife and children to -- [inaudible] like the official summer palace residence of the german goth.

government. and that was a gesture from merkel personally to say i want a good relationship with the british government. now, after that you had the row, the argument about the future european or now-european head of the commission, and the policies of david cameron were to cease not only in germany, but especially in germany as a provocation. and that, i think, has made it much more difficult for david cameron now to renegotiate and to get a better deal for the united kingdom in europe. >> from where you sit, is britain really as isolated as it appears, or are there other countries that are moving towards a position that's a bit closer to britain and a slightly more skeptical about the e.u. project? >> i think there's no question in general that there are a lot of european countries that are skeptical of the european union as such. the germans are also highly critical. the question is, how do you do it? do you try to do it in a

friendly way and with partners try to find consensus, or do you do it -- which is seen especially from germany as such -- in a very controversial, almost provocative way? and this is what the british prime minister has done. and by that he has caused a lot of criticism. >> stephanie bold been, the u.k. correspondent for -- [inaudible] well, with the european elections over, it was time for parliament to reconvene with all the pomp of the traditional ceremony. the queen came to open the new session. it was a rather drizzly, gray morning in london as her majesty set out from westminster. part of the ceremony can be traced back to the 14th century, but this year there was a very modern touch. the queen traveled in the new diamond jubilee coach. in attendance was the prince of wales and once again the duchess of cornwall underlining that one day the baton will pass to the next generation.

at the blast of the trumpets and the queen, now wearing her robe, withdrew to the house of lords. the queen and the duke of edinborough take their place on the throne, and black -- [inaudible] is summoned to hear the speech. and the bit the people always remember, the slamming of the door in the face of black rot, a symbol of the supremacy and independence of m,s. black rod knocks three times and is finally let in. and as usual, there's a very audible heckle from labour's dennis skinner. >> her majesty, the queen, commands this honorable house, attends her majesty immediately in the house with peers. >> [inaudible] [laughter] >> then that walk from the commons to the lords with the rival politicians engaging in polite conversation all the way.

mps slowly funnel into the lords, and the queen finally reveals the secrets of the speech. among the bills to be brought in, changes to pensions and child care payments and legislation on small business and infrastructure. >> my government will continue to implement major reforms to the electricity market and reduce the use of plastic carrier bags to help protect the environment. >> but away there the pomp and -- from the pomp and ceremony, the new session of parliament was dominated by events not of this government's waking. there was widespread horror of the scale of the sex abuse by the late celebrity dj jimmy savell were published in hhs hospitals with major reports from tourism and broadmoore. announcing the findings, jeremy hunt acold eyesed for what had gone on in the health service and said the whole country would share a deep sense of revulsion at what the reports revealed.

>> as a nation at that time, we held savell in our affection as a somewhat eccentric national treasure with a strong commitment to childhood causes. today's reports show that in reality he was a sickening and probe lick sexual abuser who repeatedly exploited the trust of a nation for his own vile purposes. one of his teenage victims believed that she was pregnant as a result of his abuse. two witnesses told the investigation savell claimed to have had jewelry made from glass eyes taken from bodies in the mortuary. other reported behavior is too horrific to recount in detail at this house. savell was a callous, wicked predator who abused and raped vimmings, many of them -- individuals, many of them patients and young people who expected and had a right to expect to be safe. i want to apologize on behalf of the government and the nhs to

all the victims who were abused by savell in nhs-run institutions. we let them down badly, and however long ago it may have been, many of them are are still reliving the pain they went through. how a celebrity deejay and predatory sex offender came to have unfettered access to vulnerable patients across the nhs and gold-lathed keys to its highest security hospital surely ranks as one of the worst failures of patients and public attention our country has ever seen. >> it is clear that there will be incidents whether we know corroborative evidence of the abuse as in my local case, the complaint was unconscious at the time of the alleged incident and learned of it from a hospital cleaner who witnessed it. does my right honorable friend agree that no proof is not the same as it did not happen and that his welcome words of apology should apply to all

those who think they may have been abused? >> there are several people culpable in this affair who are still drawing substantial nhs pensions. why doesn't he consider revoking the personses as a consequence for their behavior and a clear warning to others? >> well, i don't rule that out at all. if someone has behaved in a way that is in breach of either the law or the regulations at the hospital they worked and there is a way to have legal redress such that things like pensions can be docked, then i think they should face the full consequences of that. >> verymy hunt. and with his historical child abuse back in the news, the home secretary announced an independent inquiry into how public bodies, including westminster, pbc and the, this hs, dealt with allegations of abuse. teresa may also said there'd be a second inquiry tolling

claims -- following claims that allegations weren't acted upon and documents had been lost. mrs. may said one review had been carried out last year into materials submitted to her department including from the former mp, jeffrey dickens. >> the investigation found that 114 potentially relevant files were not available. these are presumed by the home office and the investigator destroyed, missing or not found although the investigator made clear that he found no evidence to suggest that files had been removed or destroyed inappropriately. the investigator was satisfied that the home office parked all credible information about child abuse in the time period from mr. dickens and elsewhere to the police so they could be be investigated properly. >> mrs. may then moved on to the calls for a wider inquiry into historic allegations of abuse. >> i can now tell the house that the government will establish an independent inquiry panel of experts in the law and child protection.

to consider whether public bodies and other nonstate institutions have taken seriously their duty of care to protect children from sexual abuse. the inquiry panel will be chaired by an appropriately senior and experienced figure. it will begin its work as soon as possible after the appointment of the chair and other members of the panel. >> wills may's first -- mrs. may's first choice was a former high court judge, but she stepped down before the inquiry had begun work after criticism she was too much of an establishment figure. her late brother, michael maybers, was attorney general in the 1980s. >> the secretary is right to announce she has changed her option and response on child abuse, but i i want to press her on the details. we need three things; justice for victims, the truth about what happened and how the home office and others responded and stronger child protection and reforms for the future.

any allegations that a child has been abused must be thoroughly investigated by the police even if it took place decades ago. >> mid 1990s a senior ex-whip who had served in the 1970s told the bbc that the whip's office routinely helped mps with scandals including those, in his own words, involving small boys and that they did it in order to exert control over those vims and prevent problems for the government -- those individuals and prevent problems for the government. it's just one powerful example of how perm and political interests can conspire to keep justice from happening, so can we have a full commitment that this inquiry will consider not just the police and social services, but will also look at what happens at the heart of power? and if those systems are found to exist today, that they will be overturned whether that's uncomfortable for political parties, parliament or whether it makes life uncomfortable for the government itself? >> i welcome --

[inaudible] much of the discussion that we've had today has been around historical cases. is my right honorable friend confident if as much a bundle of documents was handed to her today, it would with treated in a much better manner? >> i would hope that if a similar sort of bundle of documents was handed into the home office today, it -- they would insure that those documents went to the police and that they were properly investigated. in the case of material name -- that came in, the material was hand today the police. but we will be making sure that was actually what took place. but obviously i would also expect that appropriate records will be kept today if such material was handed to the home office and that the home office would make sure that the police were taking those matters onboard appropriately. >> teresa may. now a culture of fear and intimidation, boys and girls

separated in class, pupils told of white prostitutes. these were some of the findings of inspections at schools in birmingham. the investigation into 21 schools was launched after a letter alleged that muslim extremists were plotting to take over state schools. six schools, including some that had been rated good or outstanding, were put into special measures. another 12 were ordered to make improvements. the education secretary's summary of the so-called trojan horse investigation was uncompromising. >> head teachers reported an organized campaign to target schools in order to alter their character and ethos. with a culture of fear and intimidation. head teachers who had a record of rating standards reported they had been marginalized or forced out of their jobs. one school leader was so frightened about speaking to the authorities that a meeting had to be arranged in a supermarket carpark. after concluding that governors

are trying to promote a narrow, faith-based ideology in what are non-faith schools, specifically by narrowing the curriculum, manipulating staff appointments and using school funds inappropriately. at one secular school, terms such as white prostitute -- unsuitable for primary children's ears -- were used in friday assembly. the school organized visits to saudi arabia only for muslim pupils, and senior leaders told inspectors that a madrassa had been established and paid for from the school's budget. the school was not adequately insuring peoples had opportunities to learn about faith in a way that promotes tolerance and harmony between different cultures. i'm taking decisive action to make sure that those children are protected. schools that are proven to have failed will be taken other, put under new leadership and taken in a fresh, new direction. any school could now be subject

to rigorous, on-the-spot inspections with no advance warning and no opportunities to conceal failure. and we will promote british values at the heart of what every school has to deliver for chirp. >> our focus now has to be on insuring successful futures for the schools identified today. because what the recent weeks have shown is that the education secretary's vision of controlling every school from behind a desk doesn't work. >> has to think much more carefully about the nature of its inspection system. the city council has knowledge, some tough questions to ask of the quality of leadership in its children and young people. >> what seems clear from the reports that have been published today is that the central charge that there has been an organized assault to import extremism which has, in fact, radicalized children have not been met. what there has been is

unacceptably poor and bad governance which has let children, parents and staff down and which must be tackled. >> this affront to british values may well extend to other schools outside the area already inspected. will my right honorable friend insure that there is no hilling place in any part of the british education system for the misogyny and homophobia that underpins so much of the religious fundamentalism in some of our schools? >> margo james. michael groves' statement came just two days after he was forced to apologize to the home secretary for telling the times she had failed to drain -- [inaudible] of extremism. in response teresa may accused him of failing to act when concerns about birmingham schools were first raised four years ago. the prime minister later intervened telling the pair, in effect, to kiss and make up. and speaking of apologies, david

cameron apologized for appointing this man. the former head spin doctor and be former editor of "news of the world" was found guilty of one charge of conspiracy to hack phones. the jury was later dangered after it -- discharged after it fail today to reach a verdict of two other charges of misconduct in public office. during a noisy session of prime minister's questions, ed miliband said david cameron was wrong to have taken on the former "news of the world" editor, a decision for which he said he took full responsibility. but ed miliband questioned the prime minister's interrupt. >> the charge against the prime minister is not one of ignorance, it is willful negligence. at the heart of this scandal a are thousands of innocent victims of phone hacking he didn't stand up for. the prime minister will always be remembered as being the first ever occupant of his office to have brought a criminal into the heart of downing street. >> all of these issues were examined by the levinson inquiry. but if he wants to examine the calls we make, i'm happy to

because it is leadership that has got this economy moving. it is leadership that has gotten our deficit down. it is leadership that is putting britain back to work, and it is the total absence of leadership from the labour party that shows they have nothing to say about britain's economic future. >> david cameron. passionate speeches, powerful arguments and touching personal stories defined the day as peers debated whether or not people suffering from terminal illnesses and close to death should be able to ask doctors to help them die. over a hundred peers put their names down to speak. it was a compelling and emotional debate with both sides of the argument making a very persuasive case. >> the current situation leaves the rich able to go to switzerland, the majority reliant on amateur assistance, the compassionate treated like criminals, no safeguards in

respect of undue pressure now and many people caring so much for those they leave behind dying earlier and alone because they fear implicating their loved one in a criminal enterprise. they hoard pills or put a plastic bag over their head when they are alone. >> there has been several failed attempts to change the law. the former arch bishop of canterbury declared that he'd changed his mind and now supports assisted dying. but the archbishop of york reminded everyone of the official church of england position. he said the end of life could be a special time. >> when it was discovered that my mother ruth had had breast cancer, she was expected to live only a few weeks. but through the care of the hospital and hospice, she was able to live for 18 months. during this time our children, who had been born in england, were able to get to know and love their grandmother, and she was able to delight in them. this was a gift. >> my lords, in december 1990 my

father, age 77, was diagnosed with acute leukemia. he was terminally ill. but the doctors thought that they could prolong his life for some months with chemotherapy. he died before the chemotherapy began. less than 14 months later, my husband, age 38, was also diagnosed with acute leukemia which was well advanced and very aggressive. he was given less than two months to live. i do not know what the outcome would have been if my noble friend's bill had been on the statute book, but i am profoundly grateful that it was not. because i do know that my husband longed for release, and i do know that today my son still has a father, and i still have a husband. >> my own mother's experience with leukemia didn't have quite such a happy ending. she fought it for as long as she

could, made the most of her life, adored getting to know her grandchildren. but in the end, she was in a hospital bed begging for help. she was in agony. i, too, begged for help. i ran out the hospital trying to find a medic who would do something. but they argued that she was getting as much morphine as they dared to give her, any more would be illegal, and they couldn't help. the noble baron's lady fellowshippedly referred no this bill as offering a loaded gun. my lords, if my mother could have grasped that loaded gun, and if she couldn't have, i think i'd have fired it for her. >> a very important interest. this bill is about me. i did not ask ask for it, i did notten want it. but this is about me -- [inaudible] before anyone disputes this, imagine if it's already law

and -- [inaudible] do your lordships think that i will be refused? no. you can be sure there will be doctors and lawyers waiting to -- my right to die. sadly, many put their energiesings into that. this bill offers no comfort for me. it frightens me because in periods of great difficulty, i know i might be tempted to use it. >> lady campbell. well, that bill will now go off to be considered in detail, but with little time before the general election next year, it stands no realistic chance of becoming law. back now to the committee corridor where mp were told that wales should be given more control over the way it's policed. the silk commission which was asked to look into further devolution, argued that most aspects in the future should be the respondent of the welsh

government. the relation came in the second part of review to examine the settlement in wales. >> strongly the evidence we received pointed to the interrelationship between the police and other devolved services, health and crime prevention, the other emergency services had all devolved. and the bodies that we spoke to were very clear that there's already a level of cooperation between and devolved and nondevolved agencies, but that would be helped and improved if the strategy was being set for policing from wales. >> now, was it cook-up or conspiracy that a man suspected of involvement in the hyde park bombing was sent a letter telling him he was no longer wanted by the police? it was a question asked by the northern ireland affairs committee which was examining how over 200 people were told they were no longer wanted for crimes committed before the 1998

good friday agreement. the scheme became the focus of controversy after the collapse of of the case against john downey for the 1982 hyde park bombing, charges he denied. the case was dismissed after it emerged that mr. downey has a letter from government officials mistakenly telling him he would not face criminal charges for the bombing. >> what are we really to believe in all of this? when you've had to give advice under very difficult circumstances, give advice to us as the ear of the public, the voice of the public, public opinion -- >> yes? >> what can be made of this? was this cover-up or was this conspiracy? >> the big thing that i would suggest you get from this is that there was a bona fide intention to deal with a very difficult situation in order to advance the peace process in a way which didn't damage the justice system, which didn't involve removing people from prosecution in circumstances where prosecution was justified.

so prosecution was justified, then they would not get a comfort letter. and i think that's what the bona fide intention was. and if it failed on one occasion for whatever reason that may have been, it's unfortunate. but to my mind, it doesn't undermine the legitimacy of the process that was being undertaken n. in a later -- >> in a later session, the committee heard from two families who'd lost loved ones. michael gallagher lost his son aidan in the bombing. >> it appears the government were willing to do everything to placate the terrorists to the debt criminate of the victim. -- detriment of the victim. this committee has listened to ministers from the blair government. we have herald excuses such as it was -- heard excuses such as it was not a secret or an amnesty, and we want to, we need to accept that it was deceitful and dishonest. the truth we were never expected

to know about this had the downey case not came to light. >> do your colleagues believe that you have been denied justice because of this? >> absolutely. because what you're taken away from the fact was hope. we still have hope even though it's 40 years, even though it's 16 years. the problem is why do you want to let these people off the hook? i want to make sure that they're looking over their shoulder for the rest of their lives. why would you give them a letter that says you can go now and enjoy yourself and get on with your life? >> that's maxine. we brought a picture of her because her name's been bandied about. and there was never a face to put with the name. we think it's really important that you see who our sister was. maxine was murdered on the evening of the 21st of november, 1974. i was 11 years old. for each and every one of us --

[inaudible] until the day we die. we miss her today as we have done. >> do you feel like -- excuse me for calling you -- [inaudible] in a perverse way are actually even more forgotten? >> yes. we've been utterly and totally -- you know, we have a memorial in birmingham. do you know how long it took to get that memorial? to remember 21 people who were -- >> 30 years. >> 25 years. for us, this is the idea of our justice system. what is the purpose of our politicians setting legislation only for them then to not follow the same legislation that they've implemented? what is the point of having more in the first place if no one's going to follow it? because that's exactly what it looks like to us. >> separately in mid july a judge led a review into the letters on how the system had systematic flaws but wasn't

unlawful in principle. lady justice hall let said she'd found two other cases where similar errors were apparently made. the northern ireland secretary, teresa visitors, meanwhile, said anyone who'd received them as letters shouldn't regard them as get out of jail free cards. politics in scotland, meanwhile, has been entirely dominated by the independence referendum due on is september the 18th. the arguments for and against against surfaced repeatedly. in may the snp leader at westminster said the better together campaign arguing for a no vote was based on project fear, a suggestion laughed off by the scotland secretary. mr. robertson highlighted some of the tactics he claimed were being used. >> the people of the borders and the rest of scotland are being subjected by the self scale probability fear campaign -- project fear campaign, described by its own supporters as

negative, nasty, threatening. and the prime minister is toxic in scotland. why are each his own colleagues saying this -- even his own colleagues saying this? >> mr. speaker, i have to say that it's a bit rich to hear the honorable gentleman talking about project fear when we have the first minister -- [inaudible] deliver a lecture i could only describe as project ridiculous. the fact of the matter -- and there's no escaping this. for people living in constituencies on either side of the border, they want us to walk away from these benefits. >> mr. speaker, leading members of his own campaign have told people in the borders and the rest of scotland that they will have to show a passport at the border, drive on the right-hand side of the road, worry about

their pensions when in this place people are being told that -- >> on currency. why do his colleagues think that the people of the borders and the rest of scotland will fall for this demeaning, insulting nonsense? >> mr. speaker, on the question of borders, it highlights perfectly how the scottish nationalists want to have their cake and eat it. on the one hand, they tell us we can have a common travel area which which has worked very well but with the -- [inaudible] but at the same time they tell us we will have a widely divergent immigration policy which the republic of ireland does not have. >> alistair carmichael. well, it's certainly been a bloody battle on both sides, and with me to discuss it all is david maddox, correspondent for the scotsman. david, has it really been all about money in the arguments of heart versus head? which have we heard more of?

>> i think it's been surprisingly a lot about money, actually, much more than i expected. especially from the yes campaign. i mean, a lot of the leaflets i've seen have been promising people, you know, 400 pounds or 500 pounds or even 3,500 pounds for different things if they vote yes. and there's been, actually, a lot less of the heart than i thought there would be. i think, actually, one of the criticisms are -- [inaudible] and its negativity was focused an awful lot on money and what scotland might lose. but, actually, when it went for more of the heart in recent months, it's actually been a lot better and more successful. >> the polls have moved around a bit, but have we got any idea how many people have actually changed their mind from one camp to the other? >> we don't. and part of the, i should as my newspaper commissioned some of these polls, i shouldn't be too down on them.

but i'm not sure if i can, we can entirely trust polls. this is an election like no other. i think, for example, when george osborne and the others, danny alexander and -- [inaudible] said no to the parent, we saw it go up by five points for no because, obviously, people were slightly worried about that. but then when we had the guardian front page saying, actually, the pound might stay with scotland after independence from an unknown minister, then we saw the kind of reverse. >> where do you think this election is going to be won or lost? which of the key groups of voters as far as you can see? >> there's two key groups of voters in this election. there's, there are the people who have never voted before and will probably never vote again but will probably vote in this election, and many of those, i think, fall into this very large undecided group. and it's very difficult to read which way they will go. and, you know, from lower income

groups predominantly, people who quite often are reliability on welfare, labour party perhaps should be reaching out to better and hasn't been over recent years. it's sort of one of the areas where the nationalists have managed to get a foothold in scotland. so it's, i think they're key to this. but i also think that women are key to this. and women in the polls have been strongly supportive of the no campaign. there's been an interesting dynamic where alex sam in particular doesn't seem to be able to reach out to voters. alex salmon has a very similar problem in scotland. >> and, presumably, will be absolutely crucial -- your feeling it will be massive. >> i think it will be higher than we've seen anything in this country. turnout toes for this sort of

referendum internationally tend to be in the 80s and 90s percentage wise, so we will almost certainly see or very high turnout. >> not too much longer to wait. david maddox, thank you very much, indeed, for coming in. a number of international conflicts have dominated the news in recent months. as the war in syria continues into its fourth year, the government here has changed the way it provides aid to the country. the move follows growing frustration with the inability of the united nations to reach starving civilians. almost 90% of u.n. humanitarian help has been going to those in government-controlled areas. it's hoped urgently-needed supplies will now reach more than a million people. britain has committed hundreds of millions of pounds to the international relief effort. iraq has been in crisis with the rise of a militant islamic group in the northwest of the country. isis wants a separate state covering parts of iraq and

syria. it's thought to have up to 10,000 fighters. the foreign secretary called developments in iraq extremely grave but said the options for britain didn't involve military intervention. meanwhile, events in ukraine took an even more violent turn in mid july with the shooting down of a malaysian passenger jet, mh-17, over the country killing nearly 300 people. the unrest in ukraine originally began after street protests and calls for closer ties with the e.u. since then russia has annexed the cry mean peninsula and stands accused of arming separatists in some eastern provinces who have declared independence from kiev. following the air crash, david cameron made a statement to the commons. >> mr. speaker, alongside sympathy for the victims, there is also anger. there is anger that this could happen at all. there is anger that the murder of innocent men, women and children has been compounded by sickening reports of looting of victims' possessions and

interference with the evidence. and there is rightly anger that a conflict that could have been curtailed by moscow has instead been fomented by moscow. no one is saying that president putin intended flight mh-17 to be shot down. it is unlikely that even the separatists wanted this no happen. -- to happen. but we should be absolutely clear about what caused this terrible tragedy to happen. the context for this tragedy is russia's attempt to destabilize a sovereign state, violate its territorial integrity and arm and train militias. this is a defining moment for russia. the world is watching, and president putin faces a clear choice in how he decides 40 respond to this -- to respond to this appalling tragedy. i hope he will find a path out of this festering and dangerous crisis by ending russia's support for the separatists. but if he does not change his approach to ukraine in this way, then europe and the west must fundamentally change our approach to russia. >> here, here: >> those of us in europe should

not need to be reminded of the consequences of turning a blind eye when big countries bully smaller countries. >> all of us have been outraged by the images of the site, the site left open for anyone to trample over the way the bodies of the deceased have been handled with what looks like casual indifference. we've all been hour ryed about what -- horrified about what must it be like for the family obviously the deceased to see this. >> commenting on the worsening situation in gaza. >> the council expressed serious concerns about rising fatalities. mr. speaker, we strongly endorse that call. it is vital that hamas recognize the need to enter serious negotiations to end this crisis. in particular, we urge hamas to engage with the ceasefire proposals put forth by the egyptian government. it is only by securing a ceasefire that the space can be

created to address the underlying issues and return to the long and painstaking task of building a lasting and secure peace that we all want to see. >> since the start of this conflict, 20 israelis have been killed, 18 of them soldiers. .. at its disposal can only protect itself by the kind of operations which the secretary-general of the united nations has told us?

>> he told us what is or is not proportionate. the argument being made that it should be an eye for an eye, but in truth in international law the correct definition is the response should be proportionate to the threats. would he agree that actually israel has no alternative to find it to his firing the missiles at them and to stop them? >> with his experience as head of the foreign affairs select committee, he's right to quote that important definition of international law. that is the correct position. that is right, israel understandably feels under pressure to try to stop the missile attack and that is brought the situation to come about. >> david cameron. the last few months have seen a rather frenetic round of parliamentary musica musical ch. there were two new faces at the top of common select committees. conservative ross store, a former diplomat an army officer

was elected chair of the defense committee. also another tory was voted head of the house committee. in the cabinet, -- after maria miller resigned. the most dramatic resignation there was this man, who quit parliament altogether after being found to have breached the lobbying rules. the conservatives -- being sworn in in june. it appears they voted to suspend the member after he claimed allowances for 11 days on which he did no parliamentary work. if you thought all of that was more than that, in mid-july david cameron surprised people with a comprehensive reshaping of his cabinet. familiar faces including ken clarke and the big surprise, the education secretary who became

chief whip. william hague went from foreign secretary to the commonly, a move that went down well in the house. >> he spent four years traveling the world. he has rubbed shoulders with angela merkel. he has hobnobbed with angelina. and i'm afraid -- in the words of the former education secretary, i don't know whether he would call that demotion, emotion, promotion or locomotion but i know i'm certainly looking forward to his return. >> speaking of the former education secretary, angela eagle said he did not have the most auspicious start spent yesterday not only lost his first vote that he managed to get stuck in the toilet and nearly broke his own web. >> william hague said he would -- >> welcoming the new chief whip

and made fun of what he was doing yesterday, knowledge of those in the toilets in whatever lobbyists is a very in porton piece for any chief whip. i take this as evidence that he was carrying out his duties for various constituents last but. >> big winners included making morgan promoted from the treasury to education secretary. philip hammond the move from defense. and elizabeth trust, environment secretary. if those are all people david cameron want to move to new jobs, there was one man the prime minister just couldn't budge. back to europe and jean-claude younger, the man being put forward as the next president of the european commission. david cameron made it clear he was resolutely opposed to the former president of luxembourg being seen as too much of a brussels man. at the meeting of european leaders to discuss the

nomination, david cameron insisted on a boat and initial of fans he lost by 26 votes to two, only hungary loaded with britain. in a wakeup is to be david cameron made the statement to the commons. >> i firmly believe that it should be for the european council, elected heads of national government to promote the president of the european union. it should not be for the european parliament to try and dictate that choice to the council. this is a point of principle on which i was not prepared to back. facing the prospect of -- some might have swallowed their misgivings and gone with the flow, i believe it was important to push the principle and her te deep misgivings about this issue right to the end. >> the truth is the prime minister returned to britain on friday having failed. more failure, but on a folding chair of relationship building,

winning support, and delivering for britain. i know it is inconvenient to remind him, but he lost by 26 votes to two votes. and then, and then, and then he comes to this chamber and seems to claim it as a complete vindication of his tactic. his party may think it represents splendid isolation. it isn't. it is utter humiliation. >> david cameron hit back. >> well, we heard yet another performance where -- [shouting] endless words, endless wins, endless rhetoric. no questions, no great, and no ability to stand up for britain. >> this problem go back to the fateful decision of the prime minister when he was running for his party leadership to approve the withdrawal of the british conservative from the european

people's party. mr. joker was the candidate of the epp. had a party been a member they could have influenced him in private instead of impotence in public. >> down the corridor was ukip spent it is hard to find a normal person who knows why his job was so important. my to create public support for the governments eu reform if they were to reveal the unelected commission's role of its proposal of eu law and issue regulations which are binding in all eu countries? or could it be, my lord, the government shares the bbc's fear that if the british people understood just how irrelevant this apartment has become and how rotten and antidemocratic the eu really is, then leaving it by become irresistible.

>> lord pearson with the last word for not least on our relations with the eu. a subject that is not going to go wait in the run up to the next election. that's it for now. but you do and when parliament returns at the start of september for a daily round up of life. until then from me, alicia mccarthy, goodbye. ♪ ♪ >> [inaudible conversations] >> coming up on c-span2 at about 11:10 a.m. we'll have live coverage of the president's town hall meeting with a group of young african leaders. their meeting in washington, d.c. as they learn

about entrepreneurship, civic leadership and public engagement. again, live coverage at about 11:10 a.m., just a few minutes away. >> and after more than about six weeks of talks, house and senate hoosiers have the greed on a compromise plan to fix veterans health programs at the chairman of the house and senate veterans affairs committees have scheduled a news cards today to unveil the plan. live coverage at 1:30 p.m. eastern time. the house and senate both in today for legislative work at 2:00 eastern. the house working on 16 bills under suspension of the rules including one deal with airfare fees and one sanctions against

north korea. the senate will vote this afternoon on a number of nominations and later this week highway funding to get to watch live coverage of that senate debate here in c-span2, and the house over on c-span. >> on "the communicators" tonight, two members of congress talk about their technology legislation. >> we crafted and visited this. under 702 of the hot, you can collect data and you now know from the stoughton disclosures that it's a lot of data that may also include the information of americans can't even though that can't be in the collection of the data. the amendment simply says if you want to search that lawfully acquired database for americans, you should get a warrant. not that you can't get the information, give a war and. >> the basic premise of the dot com act is to make sure that when the nation releases its last control oversight over the

domain name system, that we know what we're getting ourselves into. >> democratic representative from california zoe lofgren an element republican representative john shimkus tonight at eight eastern on "the communicators" on c-span2. >> fox news mesh is a good endless k. t. mcfarland talked about recent events in the mideast, ukraine, iran and iraq, also the illegal immigration situation at the southern border. she spoke at the sink unit institute's annual western conservative summit in denver. she spoke for about 20 minutes. ♪ ♪ >> alyssa, i got together what about that column about president obama's west point speech and compared it to krispy kreme donut, krispy creme doughnuts roll back and said no way. i was first year two years ago

him and my dear friend ambassador maryland where entities be. noted any idea any idea who i was and i got up and i said, right, who here wants -- who watches fox news? i said i'm the brunette. and they all got it. but i am -- by the eglin's to watch fox news? regime's. they have now started hiring brunettes. you just saw, we have kimberly, andrea. you just heard from my new colleague, brunette, and even katie pavlik who is a new fox news are, she's a blonde but she's a dark blonde. so we are very excited that this is a new trend. i was really very -- john andrew wanted to come back and talk about foreign policy. i started writing my remarks about two weeks ago. i was listening on monday to the president's press secretary who

said president obama had ushered in a new era of global tranquility. so i wrote this speech, right? guess what. by thursday there were several wars. so i decided i'm going to rewrite the speech and talk to you about why we're not in an era of global tranquility. in fact, i think that the last six years of american foreign policy we have never seen a more dangerous world with bad leaders. we have been in bad places before, don't get me wrong. we had a civil war -- >> you can watch the rest of this online. we'll take you live now for remarks by president obama to young african leaders here in washington, d.c. [cheers and applause] >> hello everybody. hello. hello everybody.

thank you. thank you. thank you so much. everybody please have a seat. have a seat. we are just getting started here. well, hello, everybody. [applause] welcome to washington. i know most of you are visiting our country for the first time. saw me half of the american people, welcome to the united states of america. [applause] we are thrilled to have you here, and to everybody who's watching online across africa, or in watch parties or following through social media, you are a part of this, too.

we are glad, we are very glad you're with us. can everybody please give a big round of applause for -- [applause] >> i have to say, faith didn't seem intimidated. [laughter] not liking -- not lacking in confidence and she's doing great work in south africa to empower young people, young entrepreneurs but especially women. now i'm not here to give a big speech. the whole idea of a town hall is to me to be able to hear from you. but first i want to speak briefly about what i believe so strongly in all of you being here today. next week i'll post a truly historic event. the u.s. african leaders summit where nearly 50 presidents and prime ministers attend from just about all of your countries. it will be the largest gathering

in the american -- any american president has ever hosted with african heads of state and government. and the summit reflects a principle that has guided my approach to africa ever since i became president. that the security and prosperity and justice that we seek in the world cannot be achieved without a strong and prosperous and self-reliant africa. and even as we deal with crises and challenges in other parts of the world that often dominate our headlines, even as we acknowledge the real hardships so many africans face everyday, we have to make sure that we are seizing the extraordinary potential of today's africa, which is the youngest and fastest growing of the continents. so next week's summit will focus on how we can continue to build a new model, a partnership between america and africa. harder ship of be cool that focuses on your capacity to expand opportunity and

strengthen democracy and promote security and peace, but this can't be achieved by government alone. it demands the active engagement of citizens, especially young people. and so that's why for years ago i launched the young african leaders initiative, to make sure that we're tapping into the incredible talent and creativity of young africans like you. [applause] >> since been we have partnered with thousands of young people across the continent, empowering them with the skills and the training and technology they need to start new businesses, to spark change in their committees, to promote education and health care and good governance. and last year in south africa at a town hall like this, some of you were there, i announced the next step which was the washington fellowship for young african leaders. the objective was to give young africans the opportunity to come

to the united states and develop their skills as the next generation of leaders and civil society and business and government and the response was overwhelming. across the country young men and women set out on a journey in remote villages with no phones and internet. they navigated the back roads and they traveled by bus and train to reach larger towns and cities just to get an online application for the program. one young woman from rural zimbabwe took a five hour bus ride, then and a six hour bus ride, then another seven hour bus ride, a two-day journey just to get her interview. and ultimately some 50,000 extraordinary young africans applied, and today they are at the heart of what we are calling our yali network. the online commit across africa that is sharing their ideas and forging new collaborations to realize the changes that they seek.

and i want everybody out there in the yali network to know that you are the foundation of our partnership with africa's change. said they were thrilled to welcome you, our washington fellows to an exchange program unlike any other that america has ever had with africa. and among your ranks is the young woman from zimbabwe who endured all those bus rides, so we want to welcome abigail. where his abigail? were is abigail? [applause] where is she? there is abigail. [cheers and applause] >> that's a lot of bus rides. [laughter] >> now, i do have a first item of business. as i said i launched the fellowship not far from the original home of nelson mandela. and the spirit of this program

reflects his optimism, his idealism, his belief in what he called the inn's heroism of youth. and so today with the blessing of the nelson mandela family and we're so grateful we're proud to announce that the new name of this program is the mandela washington fellowship -- [cheers and applause] you are the first class of mandela washington fellow. [cheers and applause] that's right. so, now, i know all of you have been busy. all of you have been busy, some of america's top colleges and universities. even learning how to build grass-roots organizations and how to run a business, how to manage an institution. as one of you said, my brain has been bubbling with all sorts of

ideas. and i know you've also been developing your ideas for meeting the challenges that we will address at next week's summit. and i want you to know i've read some of the recommendations that were produced at each university and college, and i thought they were outstanding pieces of work, and that's what want you to your today, your ideas, your vision for africa. here at the summit you're going to engage with some of our nation's leading voices, including someone who i know you can't wait to see, which is michelle obama, because -- [cheers and applause] but many members of congress who are strong supporters of this program are also here. where are the members of congress? i know we have a few. there you are. [applause] some outstanding members of congress are here. you get a chance to meet some of them come and i know some of you are headed off to internships in some of our nation's leading companies and organizations. one of you said i will take what i've learned here and put it into practice back home.

and that's the whole idea. and i want to say, by the way, i took some pictures with some of the university officials who had hosted all of you, and uniformly they said they could never been more impressed with all of you. and what a great job you did in engaging and taking advantage of the program, so thank you. [applause] i know you've also been experiencing america as well. the places that make us who we are, including my hometown of chicago. [cheers and applause] you've experienced some of our traditions, like a block party. you've experienced some of our food, a lot of texas barbecue when she was in austin. you really like the barbecue? [laughter] you got the whole longhorn thing going on and all that. and americans are building from you as well. because every interaction is a

chance for americans to see the africans that are so often overlooked in the media. the africans that is innovative and growing and dynamic. and a new generation, all of you on facebook and twitter and creating new ways to connect like nix it. i see some of you reading this town hall. [laughter] although most i see these guys shifting into the seat over and over again. [laughter] said a buddy can get a picture. don't think i didn't notice. [laughter] you all just -- you need, you need to stay in your chairs. [laughter] everybody thinks they are slick. [laughter] [inaudible] >> so the point is, our young leaders, our young african leaders initiative is a long-term investment in all of you and in africa and the future that we can build together. and today i want to announce

some next steps that i think are important to first, given the extraordinary demand for the program we're going to double it so that in two years we welcome 1000 mandela washington fellows to the united states. [applause] so that's good news. second we will do even more to support young entrepreneurs with new grants to up to start a business or a nonprofit, and train thousands of aspiring entrepreneurs and smaller towns and rural areas. and given the success of our annual global entrepreneurship summit i can announce next year's summit will be hosted for the first time in sub-saharan africa, which i think is going to be cool. [cheers and applause] third, we're launching a whole new set of tools to empower young africans to our yali network. new online course and mentoring, new ways to meet up a network across africa, round the world. new training sessions and meetings with experts on how to

launch startups. and it all begins today, and to get started all of you, all you have to do is go to yali dot state.gov and that will give you information about how you can access all these resources going forward. and, finally, we are creating new regional leadership centers across africa so we're joining with american universities, african institutions and private sector partners like microsoft and mastercard foundation. want to thank the two of them. they're really helping to finance it so give microsoft and mastercard foundation a round of applause. [applause] starting measure young africans can come to the centers to network and access the latest technology and get training in management and entrepreneurship and we're starting in senegal, ghana, south africa and kenya. [cheers and applause]

and we aim to tens of thousands of young africans access the skills and resources they need to put their ideas into action. so the point of all this is we believe in you. i believe in you. i believe in everyone of you who are doing just extraordinary things, like -- [applause] in nigeria, she saw a close friend died during childbirth. she now helps train birth attendants and delivers kids with sterile supplies and helping to save the lives of countless mothers and their babies. so we want to thank her. [applause] we want her to save even more lives, or to give you another example, robert -- [cheers and applause] so there's robert.

so robert is death, but even though he can't hear, he can see that the stigma and discrimination against people with disabilities must in. he's been in their champions. is standing up for their rights in schools and on the job. so thank you, robert. [applause] we want to be your partner standing up for the universal rights of all people. i believe in mom -- m.j. [applause] so in senegal she take a stand against the human trafficking that condemns to many women and girls to force labor and sexual slavery. she runs and academy that gives them education and skills to find a job and start new lives. so we are so proud of you.

thank you for the good work you are doing. we want to help you help these young women and girls. [applause] for the kind of future of dignity that we want for every woman all across the continent and all around the world. i believe in -- where is jesus? in rural malawi he saw townsend doctors without electricity so he gathers scrap metal, build generators on his porch, takes them down to the stream for power, delivers electricity so farmers can indicate their crops, and children can study at night. jesus, thank you. we want to help you power africa. [applause] and everybody here has a story. and we believe in all of you. we see what's possible.

and we see the vision that all of you have. not because of what you've seen here in america, but because what you've already done back home, what you see in each other and what you see in your self. [inaudible] from senegal, where is -- [applause] so, sobe has, sobe has a wonderful quote. he said, he has a wonderful quote. he said, here i have met africa. the africa i've always believed in it she is beautiful, she's young, she is full of talent and motivation and ambition. that's a good description, and being here with all of you and learning together and working together and dreaming together -- [applause] -- is only strengthened his determination, he says, to realize my aspirations for my country and my continent.

so to sobe and to all of you everyone across africa who joins our young leaders initiative, i want to thank you for inspiring us with your talent and your motivation and your ambition. you've got great aspirations for your country and your continent. and as you build a brighter future that you imagined, i want to make sure that the united states of america is going to be your friend and partner every step of the way. thank you very much everybody. let's get a few questions and comments in the town hall, all right? [applause] >> all right. okay, i know this is kind of a rowdy crowd. for the want everybody to sit down. [laughter] sit down. i'm going to build the call on everybody so just a couple of rules. number one, don't start standing up and waving, or shouting. just raise your hand and i will

try to select from the audience and uploaded it has been questions as possible. so let's keep the questions or comments relatively brief so that data and i'll try to give a brief answer. although if you ask me what i'm going to do about ending war, then that may require a longer answer. we will see how it goes. so that's rule number one. rule number two, we should have microphones in the audience, and so wait, when i call and wait until the microphone comes. the intended to hold it in front of you. you can -- please introduce yourself, tell us what country you are from and ask your question or make your mark. number two, just to make sure it's there, we're going to go boy girl lego. in fact, you know what was, in fact, we're going to go girl boy, girl boy. [laughter] that's what we're going to do. because one of the things we want to teach about africa is about how strong the women are and how we got --

[shouting] empower women. all right? so let's see who we are going to call on first. this young lady right here. right here. wait until the mic is there and the -- there is somebody right behind you. introduce yourself and welcome. >> thank you, mr. president. my name is -- i'm from south africa and my question is previously nelson mandela inspired the foundation of the fund for enterprises. it has run for two decades and it has since been stopped. is there any chance to develop another fund for into crisis in africa? >> well, it's a great question. one of the things that's been interesting and not only some of the platforms that you develop at your university but also during my trips to africa is the

degree to which young africans are less interested in aid and more interested in how can they create opportunities for business and entrepreneurship, and trade. not to say that we do not need to deal with very serious challenges in terms of poverty. we need to make sure that we are continuing to work on behalf of them but i think what everybody recognizes is that if you want the same kelo but and sustained opportunity and sustained self-determination, then the key is to own what is produced. and be able to create jobs and opportunity organically and

indigenously. and then be able to meet the world on equal terms your but part of the challenge in entrepreneurship is financing. and for so many individuals across the continent, it's just a difficult to get that initial startup money. and the truth is that in many communities around africa it's not that you need so much, but you need something, a little seed capital. and so what we'd like to do is to work with programs that are already existing to find out where the gaps in terms of financing, and then to make sure that we are utilizing the resources that we have in the most intelligent way possible. to target young entrepreneur's to create small and medium-size businesses all across the

continent and hopefully grow into large businesses. and if we are supplementing that kind of financing with the training and networking that may be available through yali, that we could see a blossoming of all kinds of entrepreneurial activities all across the continent that eventually grew into the larger businesses. and so we are very interested in the strictest of the primary focus of the summit that we have with the african leaders next week. how do we make sure that financing is available? and by the wacom had to make sure that financing is not just go to those that are already at the top. how do we make sure it filters down, you know, you shouldn't have to be this on a summit or the daughter of somebody. [applause] you should be able to get -- if you've got a good idea, you should be able to test that idea

and be judged on your own merits. and that's where things we can help bypass what oftentimes in sadly too many countries is a system in which you have to know somebody in order to be able to finance your ideas. one thing i do want to say the, keep in mind, even in the united states if you're starting a business, it's always hard to get finance. so a lot of u.s. entrepreneurs and small business people, you know, when they're starting off, they are borrowing from their brothers and their sisters, begging and scratching, taking credit cards and running up the debt. inherently there is risk involved, and so i don't want to give anybody the illusion who is out there starting a business or

wanting to launch a business that it's going to be easy. it will not be. that there are ways we can make a difference to oftentimes, particularly in rural areas of the the, you don't need a lot of capital to get started, right? so you may be able, if you buy one piece of equipment that can increase yields for whole bunch of farmers in that community and then the additional profits that they make you now, now allows you to buy two pieces of equipping. then four, then eight. you can grow very rapidly because the baseline of capital in the committee may be relatively low. so you don't necessary -- you just have to make sure you have that initial capital. but, of course, communities like that, even a small amount of capital could be hard to come by. and that's why making sure that this is a top priority for us is

something we will really emphasized, okay? so let's see. gentlemen's turn. i'm going to go under this guy just because he is so tall. [laughter] i always like, i like height. there you go. go ahead. >> thank you, mr. president. i'm from senegal. president obama -- [inaudible] i would like to know, can you share the two important issues you discuss -- the united nation of africa spent i'm sorry? i am the first african-american president of the united states. but i wasn't sure of --

>> africa -- >> what are the two top issues i'm going to be discussing when we're in a summit to more? >> africa becomes united states of africa. the first question -- >> all right. so this is sort of like kind of an intellectual exercise. if i were to discuss -- now i understand your question. it's an interesting question. the idea is if somehow africa unified itself to united states of africa, what would be something that i would say to him or her. >> yeah. >> you know, i think the thing that i would emphasize first and foremost is, is the issue of governance. now, sometimes this is an issue that raises some sensitivity because i think people feel like

who's the united states to tell us how to govern. we have a different systems. we have a different traditions. what may work for the united states may not work for us. oh, by the way, the united states come we don't see that congress is always, you know, cooperating so well. and your system is not perfect. i understand all that, so let's acknowledge all that. what i will say is this, that regardless of the resources a country possesses, regardless of how talented the people are, if you do not have a basic system of rule of law, of respect for civil rights and human rights, if you do not give people a

credible, legitimate way to work through the political process to express their aspirations, if you don't respect basic of freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, if there are not laws in place in which everybody is equal under the law so that there's not one set of rules for the well-connected and another set of rules for ordinary people, if you do not have an economic system that is transparent and accountable so that people trust that if they work hard, they will be rewarded for their work, and corruption is rooted out, if you don't have those basic mechanisms, it is very rare for a country to succeed. i will go further than that.

that country will not succeed over the long term. it may succeed over the short term because it may have natural resources that it can extract and can generate enough money to the industry and pay for networks, but over time that country will decline. and if you look at examples around the world, you know, you have a country like singapore which has nothing, it's a small, tiny city state, with not a lot of -- it has no real natural resources. and yet it's taken off. edge of other countries which i won't mention -- and give other countries which i won't mention which have incredible resources, but because there's not a basic system of rule of all the people have confidence in, it never takes off. and businesses never take root. and so what i would emphasize is

as a starting point, it's not a loan. you also have to have an education system and you have to have overtime infrastructure. there are all kinds of other elements that are necessary, but if you don't have the basic premise that ordinary citizens can succeed based on their individual efforts, that they don't have to pay a bribe in order to start a business or even to get a telephone, that there won't -- they won't be sticking -- chicken and went driving down the street because the police officers aren't getting paid enough. this is the accepted way to supplement their income, you know, if you don't have those things in place, then over time there is no trust in the society. people who have confidence that things are working the way that they should. and so then everybody starts trying to figure out okay, what's my ankle? how am i going to get mine?

and it creates a culture in which can really take off. look, you will never eliminate 100% of corruption. here in the united states, occasionally we have to throw people in jail for taking money for contracts or having done favors for politicians. all that's true but the difference here in the united states, and it's true in many of the more developed industrialized countries is that's more the aberration rather than the norm. i mean, the truth is here in the united states, if you want to start a business, you file papers, you can incorporate. you might have to pay a fee of $80 or $100, or whatever it ends up being, and that's it. you've got your business. now, that this is minot be making any money at that point,

you've still got to do a whole bunch of stuff to succeed. but the point is that basically rule of law is observed. that's the norm. that's what happens 95% of the time. that's, i think, where you have to start. and that's where young people i think have to have high expectations for their leadership. and don't be fooled by this notion that, well, you know, we have a different way, an african way. well, no. you know, the african way is not that you suddenly have, you've been in office and suddenly you have a swiss bank account of $2 billion. that's not the african way. [applause] and part of rule of law by the way is also that leaders eventually give up power over time.

it doesn't have to be the same way all the time, but if you have entrenched leadership forever, then what happens over time is it just, you don't get new ideas and new blood. and it is inevitable i think sometimes that rule of law becomes less and less observed because people start being more concerned about keeping their position than doing the right thing. so great question. even though it took me a while to understand it. [laughter] >> let's see. it is a young ladies turn. let me make sure i'm not restricting myself -- how about that young lady right there. right there. yeah, you. yeah. hold on a second. the microphone is coming. >> good morning, mr. president.

i'm from botswana. i just want to find out how committed is the u.s. to assisting africa in closing gender inequality which are contributed to gender-based violence which threatens achievements of many millennium development goals such as access to universal education, fighting hiv/aids? >> listen, you will not find anybody more committed than i am to this is you. and let me tell you why. first of all, i was mentioning earlier if you look comparatively at countries around the world what societies succeed, which was don't. one of the single best measures of whether a country succeeds or not is how it treats its women. [applause]

>> and if you think about it, it makes sense. because, first of all, women are half of your population. so if you have a team, we just finished the world cup, right? if you do have a soccer team, which i'll call a football team, and you go out, and the other side has a full team and to send out half your team, ma how are you going to do? you will not do as well or if you are not empowering half of your population, that means you have half a have as few possible scientists, have as few possible engineers. you are crippling your own development unnecessarily. so that's point number one.

point number two is, if you educate and empower and respect a mother, then you are educating the children. right? so with a man, you educate him, it's okay. [laughter] a woman, you educate her, and suddenly you've got an entire village, an entire region, an entire country suddenly is becoming educated. so this is an absolute priority for us, and we will be discussing this with the heads of state and government that we see next week. we've seen some progress on some fronts, but this is where sometimes tradition can get in the way.

and as many of you know my father was from kenya, and -- [applause] >> that's the continued -- the kenyan contingent. [laughter] i think what applies to kenya is true. it applies to many other countries in africa. this is not unique to africa. we see this in other parts of the world. some of the old ways of gender relations might have made sense in a particular setting. so in kenya, for example, in one shot, polygamy existed. it was based on the idea that women had their own compound. they had their own land and so they were empowered in that area to be self-sufficient. and then urbanization happened,

suddenly the men may be traveling to the city, and suddenly there's another family in the city and the women who are left back at the villages may not be empowered in the same way, and so what worked then might not work today. in fact, does not work today. and if you try to duplicate traditions, that were based on entirely different economy and an entirely different society, an entirely different expectation. well, that's going to break down. it's not going to work. so as a continent, you have to update and create new traditions, and that's where young people coming -- unit except with the old ways of doing things. you can respect the past and respect tradition while recognizing they have to be

adapted to a new age. now, i have to say there's some traditions that just have to be gotten rid of, and there's no excuse for them. female genital mutilation, i'm sorry, i don't consider that a tradition worth hanging onto. [applause] i think that's a tradition that is barbaric and should be eliminated. violence towards women. i don't, i don't care for that tradition. i'm not interested in it. it needs to be eliminated. [applause] so part of the task is to find what traditions are worth hanging onto and what traditions you've got to get rid of. i mean, there was a tradition in medicine that if you were sick, they would bleed you. that's a bad tradition as we

discover, let's try other things, like medicine. [laughter] you know, so we don't have to clean on two things -- cling on to things that just don't work. and subjugating women does not work and the society will fail as a consequence. so everything we do, every program that we have, education, in health program that we have, any small business or economic development program that we have, we will right into it a gender equality component to it. this is not just going to be some side note. this will be part of everything that we do. and the last point i'm going to make in order for this to be successful, all the men here have to be just as committed to

empowering women as the women are. [applause] that's important. so you know, don't think that this is just a job for women to worry about women's issues. the men have to worry about it. if you're a strong man, you should not feel threatened by strong women. [cheers and applause] all right. so we've got a gentlemen's turn. this gentleman in this bright tie right here. go ahead. spent thank you, your excellency. my name is -- i'm coming from kenya. [applause] africa is losing her people to starvation and diseases, which are otherwise curable.

this is likely the cause of our government establishing very -- [inaudible] to the g8 countries but as a global leader in the front of nations, when will the u.s. lead the other g8 countries in four giving africa --'s our government can be in a position to deliver and provide essential services like social health care and the infrastructural development services to our people? [applause] thank you. >> thank you. let me make a couple of points on this. first of all, i think it's important to recognize on issues of health be significant progress that has been made. because i think sometimes we are so properly focused on the challenges, that we forget remind ourselves how far we've come. and when enough for your company

to confidence how much further you can go. so over the last 20 years, hiv occurrence has been cut in half. tuberculosis and malaria deaths have been reduced by 40% and 30% respectively. 50% fewer women die giving birth. 50 million children's lives have been saved. and most importantly now what we're doing is not just a bike assistance programs through pepfar but we're also empowering governments themselves to begin to set up public health infrastructure and networks and training nurses and clinicians and specialists so that it becomes self-sufficient. so we are making progress. and now, i think there's a legitimate discussion to be had around debt forgiveness.

and in meetings with what now is the g7, i just want to let you know, but that's a whole nother topic that -- that -- [laughter] that we don't want to get too far upfield. i think there's a genuine openness to how can we help make sure that countries are not saddled with debt that may have been squandered by past leaders, but now hamstrung countries, or make countries unable to get out from under those deaths. the only thing i will do though, i will challenge the notion that the primary reason that there's been a failure of service delivery is because of onerous

debts imposed by the west. let me say something, you know, that may be somewhat controversial. and i'm older than all of you. that i know. [laughter] by definition, if you're my age are not supposed to be in this program last night you lied about your age. [laughter] when i was in college, issues of dependency and terms of trade, you know, the legacy of colonialism, those were all topics of great, fervent discussion. and there's no doubt that dating back to the colonial era you can trace many of the problems that plague the continent, whether it is how lines were drawn without

regard to natural boundaries, tribal and ethnic, you know, relationships. whether you look at all the resources that were extracted and the wealth that was extracted without any real return, to the nature of trade as it developed in the '60s and '70s so that the valley was never actually produced in country but was sent somewhere else. there are all kinds of legitimate argument you can look at in terms of history that impeded african development. but at some point we have to stop looking -- start looking somewhere else solutions and have to start looking for solutions internally. and as powerful as history is any need to know the history, some want you to look to the

future and say okay, we didn't get a good deal then, but let's make sure that we're not making excuses for not going forward. and the truth is that there's not a single country in africa, and by the way, this is true for the united states as well, that with the resources it had, could not be doing better. so the a lot of countries that are generating a lot of wealth. i'm not going to name any, but you can guess, is a well-educated crowd, there's a lot of countries that are generating a lot of income, have a lot of natural resources, but are not putting that money back into villages to educate children. there are a lot of countries where the leaders have a lot of resources, but the money is not

going back to provide health clinics for young mothers. so yes, i think it's important for western countries and advanced countries to look at past practices if loans have been made to countries that were put in to productive enterprises by those leaders at that time. those leaders may be long gone when countries are still unable to dig themselves out from under those deaths. can we strategically, and pin point fashion, find ways to assist and provide some relief? that's a legitimate discussion. but do not think that that is the main impediment at this point to why we have not seen greater progress in many countries.

because there's enough resources to their in country, even if debt is being serviced to do better than we're doing in many cases, all right? okay, so it's a young lady's turn. i haven't gotten anybody way back in the back of there. how about that young lady right there with the glasses? yes, right there. there you go. >> thank you, mr. president. my name is zoo. >> zoo, i like that from? >> madagascar. >> thank you on behalf of our people to integrate madagascar next month. and my question is -- [inaudible] we will have, we want to have -- [inaudible]

we all know that it is a great way to decrease use unemployed and our country. so what will happen after this? >> so i ever hear is probably aware, this is one of the primary tools we have to promote trade between the united states and many african countries. it is set to expire. dart -- there's a negotiation process taking place as we speak. more progress will be made next week. i think that we've learned some lessons about what works and what doesn't. through the first stage of agoa. in some cases what we discovered is that many countries can't, even if they have no tariff

barriers, that they are experiencing, they still have problems in terms of getting their goods to market. and so part of what we're trying to do is to find ways in which we can lower some of the other barriers to export for african countries, not just a tariff issue, but how can we make sure that there is greater transportation networks, how can we make sure that trade financing is in place, what are the of the mechanisms that may inhibit exports from african countries, so that's the first thing. ..