rogue state, there is a rice to be paid. in south africa it was when their beloved spring box suddenly could not play in the world cup. israelis it's not so much about sports, it's about science and culture. and when these cultural workers, artists are not going to israel because of the boycott, we'll begin to see results. [applause] >> and we are live this morning at the airline pilots' association's annual conference here in washington, d.c. as airline pilots and government and industry officials look at ways to improve aviation safety, security and pilot health. now live throughout the day today we'll bring you a series of panels starting with domestic and international regulators looking at aviation safety. later it's pilot health and occupational safety and ways to modernize the air space system. according to the organization, the airline pilots' association international is the largest airline pilot union in the world

representing more than 51,000 pilots in 31 u.s. and canadian airlines. [inaudible conversations] >> okay. if we could go ahead and take our seats, we'll get started. and now i would like to welcome our webcast audience to join us this morning. thank you for joining in with us. let's go ahead and begin our next panel. ♪ ♪ >> okay.

as i mentioned earlier, i'm going to change my role, certainly, a little bit x i'm going to moderate this discussion with our friends from the faa, transport canada and the international civil aviation organization otherwise known as icao. often it's been said that safety is never an end state. those of us in the safety business know it is ever changing, and our work is never finished. we can never delude ourselves into thinking we've got all the answers, and i know most of you know that. no flight is ever routine or just like the previous one. to some degree, there's always a unique set of conditions and circumstances that present a challenge to an otherwise safe and uneventful flight. we have to insure the overall system is able to detect threats and alleviate high risk. industry and regulators around the world are working towards a common vision, whether it is in areas to the appropriate use of safety data, safety management

systems, voluntary safety reportings, reporting programs or the safe integration of unmanned aerial systems or, as we like to refer to them, remotely-piloted aircraft. there is always still work to be done. so i'd like to the hear the perspectives from regulators and our colleagues from icao on these subjects and what the industry has been doing right along with their vision for the future and areas that still need to be addressed not only here in north america, throughout the world. is i'd like to introduce you to this very distinguished panel. to my left is mr. john hickey, he is the deputy associate administrator for aviation safety at the federal aviation administration. to his left is mr. martin elie, director general civil aviation at transport canada, and on the far left is mr. mitchell fox be, chief of flight operations at

icao. and you can see their full biographies in the back of your program. so let's go ahead and begin. okay. i'm going to cut right to the chase. we're already hearing about a 200-pound remotely-piloted helicopter that is applied to -- that has applied to enter the national air space system. so, john, how soon before amazon's going to be delivering a book on my doorstep with a vehicle like that? >> well, i'll leave the marketing of amazon.com to jeff bezos. [laughter] but let me, let me just sort of walk you through some of the steps that the faa has taken today. the administrator has made it very clear that regarding the entry of uass into the system

is going to be done in a prudent, step-by-step basis with safety at the fore in our minds. today we have, as you know, there was a congressionally-directed six key test site areas that we're going to sort of get a lot of new information from. four of them have been stood up. the other two are not far behind , being stood up. we have also issued the very first commercial type approved restricted category aircraft up in the arctic, and they've been operating up there. and we've been very engaged in providing exemptions to a limited group of commercial operations as a result of the congressionally-mandated is section, what they call section

333 in the reauthorization bill. so there's a lot of activities we're doing, but there's also a lot of stuff remaining. we really don't have standards that are appropriate yet for uass. i think many of you know that, hopefully, we're going to have a proposal for the small uas rule out later this year, and, you know, there's always some of the critical technologies that still need to be solved like sense and avoid. and so i think to some degree it's not going to be as soon as some people tend to think it is. >> okay. interesting. in the rule that you're going to put out later this year or the response you're going to put out later this year, are you going to see -- do you think you'll achieve some standards at that time, or is that still a work in progress? >> well, remember, it's a small us rule. >> right. >> and it's only an nprm, so i don't think by virtue of the

nprm itself we will have developed status. but there are activities going on in the rtca special committees to help look at standards, look at the ability to comply with part 91 to be able to see and avoid. >> very good. martin, what about in canada? where are we with uas integration up this? >> integration is probably a long way away. in one sense we were lucky. back in 1996 we put in place a rule that allowed us to authorize uavs. the bad news is that did not have any standards with it, it was just an issued authority. so though they've certainly taken off in the sense three years ago we issued about 150 of those, last year it was 950. so, clearly, the volume is increasing. we've learned a lot along the way. a lot of those operations are commercial. the challenge is being able to put a fence around it.

so is a lot of them are dealt with individually. based on that experience, we got some guidance we're going to be putting out this fall which will help our staff deal with them. they'll be less individual, but also the industry will have a better sense of what our expectations are in terms of how do you justify it, how do you show you have the right mitigations in place. we also have a working group. we have a long-term plan. there's four phases. the first phase is really below 25 kilograms within line of sight which is the relatively easy piece even though there's work to be done on that. and i think in that general area there has been some discussion with the faa, and we're in the same sort of place. you know, the civil types of operation are less complex. we've got a general sense of where we are. the biggest next step is, obviously, beyond line of sight, and i think that's a challenge not because of any authority the, the industry just isn't there yet with solutions for the smaller vehicles. and then the longer-term phases are really getting into the bigger vehicles without limits

eventually. so that's some years away. we are in the process of trying to determine on what sort of schedule we can get some rulemaking out there at least for that a lower group. and so i'm hoping probably within the next year or two we will have something in place which is probably going to be pretty much in line with the faa -- >> i think you're right. are you two -- is the u.s. and canada, do you have an open dialogue between your two agencies on this subject? >> the answer is, i think, yes in a lot of areas. we have very different rule structures in the first place, so that doesn't mean the rule is going to be the same. >> right. >> i'm not sure if you're aware there is a canada/u.s. initiative called the rcc -- sorry, anyway, it's a very high level driven on all sorts of subjects. there was one item in the first phase of that, and that was actually on the initial phase of uav. so in that form there has been, but certainly the technical level people are talking all the time. >> are very good.

well, mitch, bring in the global approach to this. what are you seeing at icao, and give us a perspective of how rpa and uas is developing worldwide from your perspective. >> well, very much like my colleagues from national regulatory authorities, we're taking very much a step-by-step approach. the blue print that we see ahead for this type of technology, what we're trying to do to the extent possible is mirror what we do in terms of our international approaches to four rpa operations to what we do for manned operations. so in that respect, the uas study group -- which, by the way, very soon is going to be up leveled to a full technical panel -- we've been working ahead on looking at what sort of requirements would be necessary for the issuance of an air operator certificate for rpa

operations, very much in line with manned operations. what type of requirements will are remote pilots need to meet, the sort of annex one international licensing requirements as well as what are the airworthiness requirements for the vehicles themselves? and that's been the major focus of our work. previously, back in about 2012, we came out with some enabling standards. they're very preliminary in nature. the first one is aircraft registration. actually recognizing remotely-piloted aircraft as aircraft in the international context. and then in annex two, the rules of the air -- which apply universeally, especially over high seas air space -- was the initially enabling rules that would how for one state to authorize another state's operation with a remotely-piloted aircraft into their air space. those are only initial things. so, again, the work's going to be focused on the pilot license

areas, the air operator certificate, the airworthiness requirements. so our uas study group has been working away for the last two or three years. in march of next year, they expect to roll out the rpa guidance manual. that's the first step leading towards the eventual development of international standards. and from the 23rd to the 25th of march, 2015, we'll be having a global similar -- symposium to start to discuss the impact of international operations and gradually in line with the information safety block upgrades, the aviation block upgrades, the eventual integration into nonsegregated air space for international operations. but that is a long-term process. we're looking at the first international standards in respect of licensing, the air operator certificate, airworthiness certification and

some enabling standards in annex ten in about the 2018 time frame, and then we'll be looking for biannual updates of those standards as the technologies mature. certainly as john mentioned, sense and avoid is an issue that we're looking at through the study group and, again, that work will continue in the panel. >> good. very interesting. you know, the two big international initiatives, of course, is rpa, uas and, of course, next gen. i'd be interested in your thoughts. are rpas and usas, should that be an integral part of next gen, or are rpas and uass just another operator within next gen? and i guess i'm asking do you

see this as being integrated in consideration as we move forward with next gen, or do we just leave the development of rps over here, and they'll just be another user of next gen? i'll start with you, john. >> first of all, when you look at uass, and i'll use the phraseology we use here in the u.s., uass, there is a focus on uass in and of themselves because of the significant challenges they have, private and many other issues -- privacy and many other issues. but it's impossible to to look at next gen without also considering the impact of uas. at this point in time, there's not a lot of focus on uas as part of the next gen environment. because as my colleagues here have mentioned, we're still many years away from what you would see as a safe integration in the very busiest air space in our

system. it just, we're just not there yet, and it'll be a number of years. but as we go with further down the road and as they get closer and closer to doing that, there'll be a bigger focus on it under the next gen environment. >> okay, good. martin? can you comment? >> i'm with john on that. i think the bottom line is if they want to integrate in the air space, they have to meet the safety standard. there's certainly work going on. for example, there's work going on on micro versions of that. if they get to the point where uavs of any size have that capability, it's going to be easier to integrate them. not to say there aren't other issues, and i think really they're setting that bar. so i agree with john, they need to be accommodated, but they shouldn't withdesigned around them either. >> very good. mitch, what do you think? >> very much in line with what both john and martin said. the aviation system block upgrades, really it's a systems architecture. and if you're going to take a

systems architecture approach to really the future of air navigation, you have to consider all the players that are going to be in that system. so as we move ahead from block zero which we're currently in to block one and block two and block three of the aviation system block upgrades, there are modules of those block upgrades which specifically apply to the integration of remotely-piloted aircraft. but it's not all of a sudden. it's an incremental approach as was described by my colleagues. >> you know, i've heard all three of you really underscore the importance of safety here. and you're dealing with high level safety concerns and insuring the public. you know, what other steps do you think you can take to assure the public that safety is prime directive here in rpa, uas integration versus the very technical work that's got to be done, you know? you know, how -- what can we do as an industry to assure them that there is a process that's going to be followed to insure

safety out there? >> well, maybe i'll start out. it's really, i think, relatively short answer, and that is by taking very slow, deliberative steps before meting uass into the more busy air space. there is a perception, and it's built by some of the promotions like amazon.com and many others that we are imminently set for seeing uass. you'd be on a flight, commercial flight for delta air lines, for example, you look out the window, and you're going to see a uav fly by. and we're not going to see that anytime soon. so i think if the public sees, you know, that this thing not happening and we publicly, the faa -- and we have been very much out there letting people know, let the public know that we will not allow these uass come into the system until we are completely sure that they

are safe -- i think that's a great step to educating the public. >> yeah. martin? any -- >> i think the industry, the uas industry has demonstrated that they're very keen to keep it safe because, obviously, if they get a bad reputation, that's going to affect their future from many points of view. i think the short term the bigger challenge is probably the uninformed users, the recreational, the people who don't recognize even if they're commercial, they have some responsibilities. so i think it's the promotional educational pieces where we have the most work to do in the short term because those are the people that are popping up on an approach to an airport because they have no idea of the consequences of that action. >> mitch, from an international perspective, do you see -- john and martin alluded to educating people, the commercial interests that want to do this and may not even be aware that there need to be standards put in place. are you seeing that on the international front as well or hearing of that on the international front as well? >> absolutely.

when i take a look at the composition of the uas study group, we had a certain number of people in that study group that were representative of i'll call it the rpa industry. and then we have sort of the main core of international aviation today, the regular haters, the industry and the pilots also on the uas study group. so you kind of saw two different approaches, and it was a matter of, to some extent, educating -- and it took quite a period of time to educate the rpa industry on what are the expectations for safety in our international environment, especially if you're going to start operating in unsegregated air space. so i agree, the incremental approach is also central. i also feel it's very important that to the extent possible we take the robust safety systems, including safety management systems that we utilize today in

manned operations, and we apply those to the extent possible for remotely-piloted aircraft operations. >> thank you very much for that segway, because that's the area i want to go be into knew, is safety management system. and i think i'll start with you, martin. what lessons have you learned in canada with sms? i think a lot of people look to canada as being you've been there for a while, and what lessons have you learned, good and bad? >> we've learned many lessons s the short answer. i think there's two aspects. i mean, sms is the expectations of the industry. we've come a lock way with it. in -- a long way with it. in 2009 we made a conscious decision to pause because particularly the smaller parts of the industry were concerned about the complexity. we also had employees who weren't sure that they were ready and, again, it was perhaps the education piece. so it wasn't people, generally speaking, agree with the concepts, but what is that like in reality? also the other big piece is how does that affect our program? if you're asking the companies

to take a systems-based approach, it's hard to go in there with inspection tools. we did a lot of work on that, and that's also been a big learning experience. so i think those two big things have started to coalesce, and we're starting to have a discussion about moving on into the other areas even though we have 95% of our night ops under s -- flight ops under sms rules under passenger miles, we see the need to cover all elements of the industry. all the maintenance organizations, if you're going to be in a system, the whole system needs to be playing by the same rules. so there's still decisions being made about exactly what and when, but that's what we're moving to. >> very good. john, can you give us an update on where sms is here in the u.s.? >> we're actually quite further along than maybe some people might see. and martin really brought up a number of key components that i think is very much transcends to the united states. we don't have a rule yet, we don't have a mandate. we are in the process of doing a

rulemaking. and, but instead of waiting for the rule to come out, we have developed a pilot program with dozens of airlines in the united states which comprise of, as martin said, well over 90% of the traveling public. and what we're seeing is we're seeing a variety of different maturity levels of the sms system and a variety of the different airlines. but what is really important about sms, and this is -- that i think is exciting is martin alluded to it is when, when the airlines get to a very sophisticated level of sms, a very high level of maturity, it is going to fundamentally change the way the faa conducts its surveillance. the surveillance necessary for an airline that does not have an sms requires a certain level of oversight that you height suspect. but if -- that you might

suspect. but if an airline is doing all the things of an sms, collecting data, analyzing the data, developing safety enhancements, implementing them, checking the effectiveness of them, if an airline is doing that, the faa doesn't have to have the same level of oversight than we did without it and we can put our resources in the more critical areas of the safety system. so we really see sms as a tremendous boom to safety in the system. but also the other thing that i wanted to mention is we also are developing our own interim sms system finish internal sms system. our staffing is based on risk-based management decision making. many of the other decisions that we're doing internally in the faa is fundamentally based on risk-based decision making which is a key come operate of sms -- component of sms. >> very interesting. you know, a lot's been said about just culture, and, you know, i think fundamental to sms

is voluntary safety. and, you know, often i certainly hear in some of the meetings that i go to, well, you know, relations between employees and their interaction and their reporting of voluntary data is a management labor issue. but honestly, just culture, i think, is what brings good data to the table. where do you see the regulators' role in promoting just culture to, at the operator level and getting that mindset over that the operator really needs to focus in on proproviding that kind of environment to get good regulation? what can you do as a regulator on that? >> well, i think the faa has had a long, great history of promoting voluntary reporting systems. the one classic example of how successful voluntarily-reported data can be shown is in the

commercial aviation safety team which has been in existence since the late '90s when we were experiencing quite a bit of accidents in the united states. and we created this government industry collaboration where we would actually bring day to the table, shared data, in a just culture environment. and as a result of looking at that data, we were able to develop a number of safety enhancements. you know, when two different groups of people are looking at the same data, it's very difficult to reach different conclusions. what i've often seen is when you're looking at different kinds of data is where you see the disagreements between one group versus another. and as a result of the commercial aviation safety team activity as a major contributor, we've seen the accident rate, the commercial fatal accident rate in the united states develop 80%.

drop 80%. so what we see in the future now is increased voluntary reporting of information. because remember, you otherwise will never see that data if it's not -- if we don't provide a culture and an environment where people feel comfortable with submitting that information. so i see that as even being a bigger, bigger role in the future. >> martin, have you had success in canada with that issue of promoting the just culture for all the reasons john just, you know, illustrated? >> i believe we've had success. as with any industry, there's people who embrace things quickly, and there's others who take a little longer. there's two aspects, from the industry point of view, it's very clear to us that where we see the just culture, it's driven from the top down. right? you can encourage people, but if that's not supported at every level, where senior management wants that culture to exist, that's where it works. if that doesn't happen at the senior level, then people are obviously not comfortable, and it doesn't work.

i think one of the things we can do as government is to be a bit of a role model in the sense that, you know, if you're talking about developing trust, it's the old issue who's going to go first? we have the opportunity to take that role and say to the industry, you know, we're doing our pest to trust you and hopefully develop that trust sort of between the companies and ourselves. so quite apart from the systems, but just in the relationships. you know, when they get a problem, what we see is people are much more likely to pick up the phone and saying we've got this problem. we don't know what we're doing about it yet, but we're on it. whereas in the past we may never have heard about it there are areas where we can still make progress. >> there are areas we always talk about in voluntary safety is, obviously, de-identified data, creating aggregate data and information that we can act on. but there's always a discussion of what about litigation. and, mitch, i'm interested, icao has just made some changings

with regards to protecting data from litigation. maybe you can highlight for us. >> chuck, if i can, i'd just like to provide some backdrop for this. in this room when we're talking primarily north american population or maybe if we were talking primarily european population, we talk about just culture. everybody in the room understands exactly what we mean. if you talk about that globally, what a just culture is, there's a lot of room for interpretation, and that's just natural. whenever you talk about something that is just and culture, that is open to interpretation internationally. so what we focused in on is exactly what you mentioned, is the protection of safety information. it's difficult because you're talking about a balance between protecting safety information for the cause of safety and the need for proper administration of justice.

in varying justice systems. so initially, the icao work in that area was the so-called attachment e to annex 13 which talked about guidance on the protection of safety information. and at that point of maturity, could only be guidance on the protection of safety information. coming out of the high-level safety conference of 2010, the countries of the world gave us clear guidance. the guidance was we needed an annex that was devoted to safety management processes, and we needed to focus in on protection of safety information. so just november last year, the newest annex to the suite of annexes we have to the chicago convention came out, annex 19, safety management. it also included what we call an attachment which is guidance on the protection of safety information. so what had been the latest -- what have been the latest changes? well, we've had a safety

information protection task force that's met for the past three years that's been very difficult work. they came forward just a few months ago to the air navigation commission of icao with a proposal to at least in annex 19 as it talks about the type of information that would be used in a safety management system or state safety program, how could we upgrade our guidance to a standard? so a proposal went before the commission, it was accepted. it covers, basically, three areas. that one area that i mentioned about standards concerning a need to balance the use of safety information for safety purposes with that, let's say, of proper administration of justice. ..

it will go out for consultation, states and international organizations. the pilots international community will have the opportunity to comment on these proposals. we're expecting the proposals to go back to icao for final review in about january next year. we are hoping that these new standards could become applicable in the november timeframe in 2016. >> very good. martin and john, do you see any changes as a result of what mitch is developing up there in icao? do you see any immediate changes that you see here in the u.s. or canada? >> i'll begin. no, i don't because i think we

spend very, very that we have been very, very diligent. we take high importance of protecting information here i could reflect back on the 2000 but it was very difficult to get airlines and pilots to come to the table to share information. i think at the root of the problem come at the root of the reticence of them to come to the table was mistrust of the faa, of perhaps retribution, et cetera ensuring the data. what we've learned is we have developed a community both management, labor and the faa upholding at the highest level the tenant of protecting data and information. that is -- if we can't do that i can assure you all that data will dry up. and they will all go away. and so i think we are already

there. i really do applaud the icao work because i do think it's going to help many of the other states that perhaps don't hold it to the same degree that the united states does. >> martin, anything you want to add? >> the challenge we seen in some areas we're just trying to deal with an open reporting culture, at the same time confidential boarding system. how to bring those together to make it open and certainly that's been a challenge. we are missing some protection. is something we need to put in our act to provide that protection. we did try once before and there's a lot of debate but we never got to that protection but this is something we will go back to advance to protect the individual. not to say the companies themselves need that guidance, just making sure there is some overriding authority there. >> okay. i want to just, we've had the last days we've had, we've

alluded to certainly the tragedy of malaysia 17 and, of course, there's a lot of dialogue still about the disappearance of malaysia 370. certainly within the last few weeks a lot of spotlight has come one icao, ma as far as what is the role in icao and access investigation safety? mitch, i was wondering if you'd share, you know, or give us some prediction of we think this is going. icao has really become in the front here now in this area. >> thanks, chuck. i think it would be wise to break this up into two different issues because i think we have two really distinct issues, malaysia 370 and malaysia 17. i'll address what i call the community is doing and relationship to malaysia 371s 371st.

we don't know very much about what happened to malaysia 370. the only thing we do know is that we can't exactly locate where it is. that's the only thing we know at this point. so the committee got together. we organized a multi-to spring meeting on global flight tracking in march of this year. this brought together both the governments and industry to start to talk about this issue and start to set some near-term, midterm, and long-term objectives for the future in respect of tracking airplanes. so the near-term objectives, i have to applaud the initiative made by iata in moving ahead in tracking airplanes on a global basis. so there's a commitment made by iata to work ahead on this issue, in particular taking a look at those areas where there isn't surreal airspace and

potential exists for airplanes, let's say, not to be tracked presently at the rate that we would like them to be tracked at. so iata formed an aircraft tracking task force, so-called at&t after the att up is really a broad cross-section of or aviation industry. so it involves regulators, involved the airline industry itself and it involves the major airplane manufacturers, airbus, boeing, bombarded day. it involves the air navigation service providers worldwide. it also involves the airline pilots in your international federation. so that group is meeting and been working diligently ahead on near-term measures to implement fright at flight tracking, be able to locate airplanes on a worldwide basis throughout their flight.

that's the objective. we expect that the recommendations will come forward from iata to the governing board for implantation at the end of september. in parallel with this, but directly connected with that, is what we call the concept of operations. so as our ability to more robustly track airplanes improves, we want to make sure that the system that would need to respond to an abnormal flight situation can equally and robustly respond to the. the objective of course is to search and rescue people within a reasonable period of time, if there are survivors. so we have to look at the entire infrastructure and we're looking at a concept of operation that more closely integrates what airlines would be doing in terms of their tracking of airplanes,

and how that fits into the overall air navigation system. so again, this group is working in parallel. it's a group that consists of, i would call the leading members of the community in the air navigation infrastructure, what we call the chairs of our technical panel working with the air navigation commission, also having liaison over to the aircraft track and task force and developing the concept of operation. they are looking for the concept of operations in draft form for consideration i the end of september as well. so the two groups working parallel but there's cross-pollination. support of the concept of operation applies to airlines and what they would do in terms of aircraft tracking, that part of the concept of operations is being drafted by the airlines. we are looking for an integrated system ahead.

so ultimately, in summary, the aircraft track and task force has come up with its recommendations to the industry, end of september, and a group developing the concept of operation for systemwide approach, the recommendations i the end of september. >> what about malaysia 17, as far as the role, as far as accidenaccident investigation? do you see any change is coming down pike for that? >> in the history of what icao has done an actual providing advice, going on fact-finding missions in support of an accident investigation, i don't think conceptually that change much with malaysia 17. and i think i need to kind of follow through a little bit of a timetable of what the events were and what icao's role has been. i will say that we may have had a little bit more of a role that we have in the past given the

circumstances that this occurred in. and casserly spelled out a path which i will briefly describe. so as you all know the tragic event occurred on the 17th of july 2013. within five days we have a team of people in the ukraine to provide advice to the government of ukraine in this accident investigation. so the role of icao was to provide advice, to provide guidance on all the relevant aspects of the convention, the international convention on international civil aviation, and annex 13 as it pertains to accident investigation. it was also there as a fact-finding mission and to ensure that all of the evidence is thoroughly considered. now, all this is very much consistent with the u.n. security council resolution

which called for a full, thorough, an independent international investigation, consistent with international guidance. and i think you can imagine the circumstances that this occurred, that the international community made a strong call on icao to participate in this process. so where we've been a little bit more involved, i would say than in past occurrences, we did participate with the international community in getting a proper hand over of recorders to the appropriate authorities. in addition to that we basically provided some looking over the shoulder as the recorders were, the information was downloaded from the cockpit placed -- record and are flight data recorder. i think what this did, and i listened intently to the previous panel, and these

comments are very consistent with that previous panel. just last week the president of the council of icao, and secretary-general of icao, convened a ceo level meeting between icao, iata, for the airlines, for the airports and the service providers worldwide. they jointly, when they got together, condemned the use of weapons against civil aircraft. and they found together, they made a joint statement, that the downing of malaysia 17 is unacceptable. so here's where the challenges. almost immediately after the event, we came out with a statement. this is how we inform all the states in the industry. we reminded states of what their obligations are to be risks for threat assessment, and as we briefly mentioned, mitigate for

that in the airspace above their sovereign territory, the coordination that state is responsible for between its civil and military sectors, the coordination of that's necessary to air traffic services, and to the operators. but in the world today as was mentioned in a previous panel that are countries that are at conflict, and this country can always carry out for obvious reasons all of the threat assessment, risk mitigation. because there in the midst of the conflict and they may not always have the capability to do that. so coming out of this meeting on the 29th of july, it was agreed to form a high level task force that's called a high level task force on risk a civil aviation arising from conflict zones. there will be high level

representatives from regulatory authorities, from states, high level officials from industry, and also a pilot community that has a very strong vested role and interest in this, will also be present during the task force meeting. task force will have its first meeting next, i believe it's thursday and friday, the 14th and 15th of august. they have been given a clear mandate, come forward with recommendations. i would characterize the recommendation in just a second. what the recommendations are to the international civil aviation community in eight weeks. that's a tight timeframe. it's a little bit unusual in the icao context to be quite honest with you. so that might be a slightly different role. so to characterize the recommendations, making sure that the right information gets to the right people at the right time. and how do we go forward with that. thanks, chuck. >> thank you very much. that's very interesting. keep posted on the. want to give an opportunity to

ask some questions, to all three of our panelists, willing to take your questions. it may or may not be an anything we discussed so far. in light of what mitch just said, how can the u.s. and transport canada participate, or encourage, or even direct the international dialogue going on? obvious that we have a strong india speed. we've a trawl -- a strong tsb up in canada. what roles do you see playing as this discussion goes on and we see some changes that may result from this? >> i think there's certainly a role and we are part of that task force. i think it's inevitable the security and safety are going to be interwoven. i think ourselves and probably faa will have a role to play in the safety point of view in some

of the solution that would him committed for safety improvement, passenger design a whatever it is. i think will both be very engaged. >> we are very much engaged in the task force, the icao task force. and i like to add to the previous comment that iata really, they can very quickly about the need for some form of continuous monitoring, or monitoring of aircraft during a difficult period of flight. while i'm not here to describe or discuss establish u.s. policy toward our position on that, i do think it's fair to say that it's very difficult for anyone to say that we shouldn't have something different than what we've had. because from an aviation state sample, to of an airplane sadly disappear and not know why is a setback to aviation safety.

there's no doubt about it. so we do need something. it really all comes down to what form does not take. >> had very good. we do have a text question. >> yes, good morning. one of the questions that is coming, we've had a few, is it true that airlines in canada, this question is for martin, cannot advertise for pilots were looking for new hires in canada? >> that particular issued as a labor issue as opposed to aviation safety issue. it is discussion on the. i'm not sure i want to give you a blunt answer because i'm not 100% sure. so it's really around foreign workers and to you advertise for. foreign workers are only permitted, if there's a labor shortage. so what are you looking for when you look at domestic resources first. so i don't really want to answer the question because i think i want to make sure it would be precise.

it's not a transport even though we validate their foreign license but will he do that with the agreement -- can't remember what it stands for. used to be our human resources ministry. they changed the name of late budgets the issue in that area so we are engaged but we are not the lead on that issue. >> i apologize to set this question, i have to give a mean speech here, but mr. hickey, you said in a well running program, as a complement to it, we'll save the faa money. it's kind of a bit of a force multiplier. and think tasha adding a veneer agree that have a robust culture you don't have to send the inspectors to the cockpits as often. but there's a regulation that is coming out soon.

it's been promised to come up ot next week, next week for the last few years. so it's supposed to come out in a couple of weeks. what the rumors that we are hearing about this may be some issues with things like sole source, if i report something that there's no other way you could find out about it and that being the sole source. and still allowing discipline or some sort of action against that pilot. also the faa has taken a stance that they want everyone to go to a template m.o.u. for their programs, meaning all the agreements are exactly the same. our company takes, well, for the opposite side, we are having a hard time with this. the m.o.u. portion is a great way to start a program if you've got here's the template, here's how you set up your program to here's the protections that we offer and how the programs are going to work. but we started the program with

the faa. we are in the beginning and we have evolved, and to rollbac rok to what you're going to give to the new entrants, billy bob's air service out of des moines makes absolutely no sense to us. the first pilot that has taken a sole source report will and all information coming to the faa. all of it. [applause] >> and i don't think that's the intent. i think that that is a very, very big mistake the faa is missing. and so i urge you to work with the people at the headquarters and say, look, guys, if you have an astonished program that works like at united and most of the airlines here, don't touch them. let them go. if you want -- if you're trying to avoid a 30 page m.o.u. that

somebody has, and give them the template and say look, if you 30 pages it's not working anyway. like ours for instance, the template plus a few paragraphs, one or two paragraphs, and that's it. but if you're going to take those away, we lose. is there anything you can tell us that is, what you said earlier was you are assuring that these are protected and you want the information. you are going to lose the information if you go down that path that we've been told we're going to have to go down. what can you tell us about that? >> first of all, let me back up to me be the very of what you are commenting on. when i mentioned fns and a toddler how it would sort of drive a very different surveillance model, i certainly am not speaking about the specifics, about whether we'll be in the cockpit or not. so please don't misunderstand. we would tail or surveil

programs to individual airlines, depending on the nature of their program. so don't want to be on record as saying i was specific to any part of surveillance programs. to your main point, again, i will go back that we very much support they need to get a single source information because if we don't get that we will lose valuable information. that information must be protected. i can't emphasize that enough but that is a very important thing. i've got to be honest with you. i don't know, i'm not the money with the regular edition you referred to to it seems the rumors running around the that might undermine that. i don't know that so that i think i can say is i will go back and take a look at what's going on there. and, in fact, see if it would sort of undermine the very nature of what we just talked about. i'll take that back.

>> thank you to much. i think that's a good point is we don't want to do anything, even at the sake of expediency, we don't want to jeopardize because like you said, and i'm sure martin and mitch would echo, that that sole source a protective the very high quality data is central to what we're trying to do, so thank you. i think we have time for one more question. >> back to the subject of u.s. we appreciate your approach to wide scaled use but what can we expect and this is sort of a professional speculation. what will the public see as the first use of uas and how far away is that? >> it's just a speculation but i'm not going to hold you to it. >> i can say that we already have state -- taking photographs because that's how they sell

camera crews, commercial work. there's a lot of applications and i think they are already there. the way recover with the is by putting a fence around where they can do it in wind, under conditions. but there's already a multitude. we have farmers look at the crops so they can get an aerial view, the areas where things are not going probably, that's a capacity didn't have before. >> what i would add from the united states side is, and maybe not, i think use the phrase what would the public see. i was and what the public would be aware of, much along the lines what my colleague said, is you will see a lot of public entities like border patrol and border protection. i think the public is well aware of widespread use of those.

pipeline, inspection of pipelines and all, and agriculture use. so that is immediate and that is going on right now. but i think what the public may be seeing very soon, if not already, is the thing that i mentioned early on about the exemptions according to section 333 in the reauthorization. this is getting exemptions that allow certain entities in certain isolated airspace to operate for business venture. and one of them was the most -- the motion picture association, and we granted an extension to the mix i think you will see more along those lines. but again, what you're going to see is you won't see them, and this is a great pilot community, you won't see them in class b. airspace anytime soon. >> mitch, and just one last comment for you, anything you can say internationally?

are their hotspots of uas development beyond the trannine i can united states that you've seen wrapping up as far as develop that? >> just to give an idea of the size of the industry, right now for commercial airplanes, there are about a half a dozen countries that are involved as the final produces of commercial airplanes of today. our estimates put at between 40 and 50 states that are presently involved in either the design or manufacture of a mobile pilot aircraft today. >> we could talk for hours. there's a lot of questions but i'm very grateful to our panel. i appreciate you coming here, and speaking on the subjects. would you please join me in thanking them for their time to join us today. [applause]

>> okay. all good. all right. we are approaching lunch, but we have one more final piece of this is before we break for lunch. each year the president of alpha recognize one or more pilots have performed outstanding services on behalf of the association and its members. to present issues presidential site for safety and pilot assistance, please welcome back out the president captain lee moak. [applause] -- alpa president captain lee moak. >> all right. thank you, chuck. we will first -- will first officer steve please join on the stage, on the stage your. all right.

it's my honor and privilege to recognize steve with a presidential citation for outstanding work in aviation safety for his dedicated work that is helped our industry make great progress toward advancing runway safety. but really, and i guess i'm smiling too much today, but really he needs no introduction. i'm sure you're familiar with his face. stevie came the poster child of airline pilots association save our skies campaign this summer, and our efforts to convince the department of transportation and the white house to deny in ai. without much when he became a face for the profession and also an excellent spokesman for alpa but if you're up in d.c. at the time you saw him on buses and in the metro. we had them everywhere, and he

has represented us, represented us well. beyond this time on posters and on television, steve's efforts go far beyond spokesperson. he is 100% engaged. is all in. steve chairs the alpa on ground group and the committee of the delta airline, delta air lines pilot group. is also an active member of the delta airlines pilot groups accident investigation team. he works closely with industry stakeholders to promote runway safety and minimize runway incursions and excursions. steve also interacts directly with airport managers and executives to promote alpa's vision to achieve the highest possible safety standards. and earlier this year he was appointed to the steering

committee of the first strike committee u.s.a. an industry group dedicated to reducing wildlife hazards to aircraft on or near airports. is continuing commitment to developing and maintaining the highest possible standards of safety and integrity throughout the industry has earned him a reputation as a passionate -- i'm going to do this in because people say about me -- intent advocate on many issues for runway safety to leveling the playing field for u.s. airlines and their employees. steve, i'm pleased to present you with the 2013 residential citation for outstanding efforts and advancements in aviation safety. congratulations. steve. [applause] >> sorry.

>> thank you very much. >> best part of the job is the alpha president, i've got to tell you. next i'd like to ask captain aaron friday to join me on the stage. speeded we will live during this awards ceremony. the air line pilots association international is hosting their annual conference here in washington, d.c. we will have more live coverage of the event coming up this afternoon. including discussions on pilot health and occupational safety. also look at ways to modernize the airspace system to our live coverage will resume at one eastern. with reports of over 900 deaths in west african countries due to the ebola virus, congressman

chris smith, picture the house subcommittee on global health is scheduled an emergency hearing today to examine international efforts underway to contain the virus and explore the potential health risks to the u.s. that hearing is scheduled for 2 p.m. eastern, live on c-span. we will also invite you to share your reaction during the hearing him both on a facebook page and on twitter, use #cspanchat. and tonight on c-span, a look at some of these senate races in play during the fall midterm election but we'll bring you live coverage of victor that viy and concession speeches followed result in today's tennessee senate primary as well as highlights from recent debates in the hawaii and virginia primary contests. again live coverage a long with your phone calls it started tonight at eight eastern on c-span. meanwhile, on c-span2 tonight we continue to bring you booktv highlights in prime time beginning at eight eastern with

ann coulter on her latest, never trust a liberal over three, especially a republican. booktv is tonight at eight eastern here on c-span2. >> c-span2's booktv this weekend. friday night at eight eastern with books on marriage equality, the obama's versus the clintons and the autobiography of former mayor of washington marion barry junior. saturday at 10 p.m. eastern on "after words," woodward interviews john dean on the watergate scandal and sunday afternoon at five and kenny bartram president and ceo of the new york public library sheds light on the library's past, present and future. booktv, television for serious readers.

>> ouout of her nose and busines leaders gathered this week in washington to discuss strategies for innovation, economic growth and development in africa. speakers at this event includes the heads of several african initiative with companies including microsoft, ge and the mobile network operators safaricom. posted by the brookings institution, it's an hour and 20 minutes. >> good afternoon. thanks for being with us. -- [inaudible] connection and communication africa, and we have with us, i will quickly go over some of the highlights. give more detailed versions. we have jay ireland was appointed as an and ceo of ge africa in 2011. since his appointment, jay has overseen the growth of general electric africa, took over 18 of employees and revenues of over

2.4 billion with his across aviation, power generation, oil and gas, health care and rail transportation. jay is also the vice-chairman of the corporate counsel of africa, a member of the board of directors of the cancer research foundation, and a trustee at lord university. thanks a lot for being with us. then we have robert collymore, ceo of safaricom, a leading communications company in africa, and pioneer of the world's most developed mobile savings system. bob peck more than 30 years of commercial experience working in the telecom sector, and he is passionate about how business can be countless entrants for communities in all countries. the united nations secretary-general appointed bob to the united nations global compact board. then we have fernando de sousa,

general manager for african initiatives microsoft. he has 30 years of experience across four continents having first joined microsoft in 1992 as a technical manager in south africa. since that time he has many positions with the company including chief operating officer for microsoft saudi arabia, as well as director of strategic initiatives for the middle eastern and north african based in istanbul. which is my home city. fernando is from mozambique and he was once a racecar driver. maybe you could tell us all a bit more about that towards the end. and, finally, we have strive masiyiwa, chairman and founder of econet wireless astride is a gem and founder of econet wireless, a diversified group with operations in its essence

and after, europe, north america, latin america and the asia-pacific. he co-chairs the african union platform for investment in african agriculture, known as grow africa and briefly took over the chairmanship of the alliance for a community solution in africa from former secretary-general kofi annan. he and his wife financed the higher life foundation which provides scholarships for over 22000 african. so this is a great panel and again, thank you very much for being with us. just a few words. our africa growth initiative after brookings is now almost five years old. we really focus on bringing africa's voice to washington and at the same time partnering with a network of african think tanks and universities from africa.

for us, this event attached to president obama's hosting the african summit is extremely exciting, and we are tried our best to make it as successful as possible. the communications team of course is crucial for africa. i was at the world bank long years ago, and i remember traveling, let's say -- go through paris basically. you still have to go sometimes through -- you still have to sometimes go through paris, london now more often do by, but -- or divide by bringing africa, huge continent together to communicate, to interact, having the physical infrastructure which is so important also the kind of software infrastructure, the whole commission network

were mobile to levitt has been such a huge breakthrough technology. is a big huge opportunity and i think many of us hope that african will be leapfrogging some of the older technology to we already see it happening in banking, health care and other areas. and, finally, human networks. at the end of the day may be the most important of all networks. networks of entrepreneurs, academics, ngos, civil society, and particularly business now looking at africa as real investment. philanthropy is great and i think obviously we want to encourage as much as possible. but when business these real profit opportunity and opportunities to develop africa while being good for its bottom line and why it integrates fully into the business and the valley catechin, i think that's where we will see africa's pitfalls

becoming sustainable and really lasting. so with that we will go in the order of seeking, and we will start with jay. >> thanks so much for having me. it's great to be here this week. i started last week him we had a trade mission with some energy ministers down at houston, oil and gas. solo aspect of getting more people understanding african and more importantly getting a lot of the african leaders and heads of state, business leaders here to connect is a key thing which is a big theme of the conference. i said in the other room, i said it's nice to have passionate all these i.t. guys and telecom guys. >> hard power. >> right. we are an infrastructure company, ge. i've been in nairobi, kenya, for the last three nephews but we want to put a focus on developing markets so we put

senior leaders in a number of different regions. what i've seen in african, the growth, we all know about the demographics, the population, the growing middle class, et cetera, et cetera, but the real thing that's got to happen in getting a real value is to do that, the infrastructure has to be approved. not just physical infrastructure, roads, rails, power, electricity, but also the communication infrastructure as well which i think has leapfrogged in many cases here in the u.s. my daughter to has come and visit us when we're out in the safari in kenya said thank you for safaricom. they have better service better than she did in her apartment in manhattan. so, bob, give you that commercial. but overall it's absolutely imperative. i think the innovation aspect in africa is totally undervalued,

and misunderstood by many people. when i come back, and i think come back to the us and talking to people. we have tremendous innovation that is occurring. as someone said earlier today in another meeting i was at, typical development, you go one to six a sequential manner and there's no real reason that in africa we can go him one, two, the six. and leap over three, four, five. i think we have done that in some industries. i thought of it is capable because the telecommunication infrastructure and the ability now of technology to continue to move bigger and bigger pieces of data, if you will, across that. we are working on a number of solutions in the health care sector in africa to really drive capability from the rural areas, if you will, back into the urban areas where we do have trained doctors, technicians that can read x-rays or ultrasound, et cetera.

so we're having that ability to really change the real lives of people that are a way from let's say the centers of where you would see the trained medical people. the other big area is energy. energy is, our electricity is the big one. we all know about the electricity deficit in africa. it's absolutely imperative to correct that. we are happy to help doing that. we have a whole platform of products across a number of different power capabilities, but most importantly it's to get access. we can generate all the power or deliver generation to the grid but you need access to the consumers. when you look at some of the technologies that are out there, not just from the standpoint of taking the grid and doing some things that are powered by the hour, but also the ability to

bring solar power or buried microcredit and things like that can which against the payment mechanisms, that's accessed the a lot of that is done through mobile telepathy. i think all of those are absolutely critical. but one of the key things that i found is that even with all of that, and as you said earlier about traveling around, the most important thing that has to happen to change africa's going to have to be more and more investment. there's a lot of dollars to want to invest in africa from all over, east, west, you know, developed world, developing countries. and that's going to happen because people perceive that the risks touched the rewards on investment. the only way that people are going to understand the true risk perception of africa, or the risk reality if you will of africa, is to be there. you have to be local. if i was trying to do my job

sitting in one city, in the u.s., and flying in every now and then i would have a very hard time to really connect with the people that you need to from a business standpoint, not just in government but also other business leaders and to really understand what the issues were. i think that's a big piece. i think the more people who come to africa from the standpoint of investing, then they really realize yes there's a lot of challenges. we all know what they are. but they are not insurmountable the it's an easy place to do business. we have grown the sure i wouldn't say it's an easy place to do business but it's easier in some respects than people think. harder in others quite frankly. but we been able to grow our business from running about a billion a year in order to about four this year in the last three years. we been able to grow pretty dramatically. it's all been because we have a focus on the ground. we continue to hire local people and that makes the communication and the theme of the conference

is really him or the panel, is to really have the communication, not just using the technology but also using the old meeting an understanding, and understanding what has to be done to get things accomplished. >> thanks a lot, jay. one point maybe to all the panelists. there's quite a few studies on catch-up and leapfrogging. in asia also, the catching up with technology has been a big story of course, but one question mark that now is there and people are asking when looking at the data. they see that technologies are spreading very, very fast. so and if you're somewhere in the world, japan or india is over germany, a few months later or years, short years later they are in africa and other parts of the world. but that's not necessary to further diffusion inside the country. any remarks on that would also be very welcome.

but jay already mentioned at least twice the mobile payment system is one of the great examples, and you are one of the greatest leaders of that. >> i have to check when you get back to make sure that jay is one of our principles. [laughter] one of the problems we've got with much of -- this thing called africa. when you think about africa we think about the continental size rather than 55, ma 55 including morocco. 55 countries that make up the continent. it was a billion people. those billion people to be between 2003000 languages. different cultures, different religions, different political make up. integration in africa, we can get a grip and. we will never be able to compete

globally. to move from dubai is about $1400. to move the same container is approaching $4000. it takes a lot longer to get that container that it takes to get from hong kong, so and another one which is related much more to our industry, -- [inaudible] when you think about this thing called africa, it is not a thing called africa. the second thing around africa is the youth bulge. typically we talk about sitting about 20% across the continent.

if you take south africa it's about 50%. in nigeria, about 13%. the fact nigeria's 170 million people, that's a lot of idle young people. idle and very energetic young people without a purpose in life. jay and the whole gdp and has a lot of investment in africa and doing a lot of stuff around energy. when we look at investing in africa we do tend to look at more glamorous part. in kenya we've discovered oil. so that's good money. the problem with that,. [inaudible] only 80% of the popular chakra having access to electricity. you can't internationalize a country unless you have power. it doesn't create jobs. it's capital intensive and again if i can make -- get very frank

but the problem is the jobs that will be created will be for drivers. no quality jobs. it doesn't address the issue of youth unemployment which i think across the continent and all of the countries it is a problem. the rule of agriculture because agriculture again typically it's about 20% contribution to gdp. it's higher or lower in some places. it's about 50% of exports coming out of african countries. so the problem we have with agriculture is it's all considered so the average from is operate on point to our .3 ahead. interesting, germany exports more coffee than the whole of the continent in africa. i didn't see any coffee farms. even more alarming statistic is the value of swedish -- sorry, swiss coffee exports is twice

the valley of german coffee exports. so again you can public challenge enough but i'm not going to be that far off. a kilogram of coffee costs about $3 at source. when you go to starbucks and you by that coffee, that kilogram turned into something like $500 per kilo. so these are the issues that need to be addressed. i have a friend who works out of uganda runs they could african coffee coming. he pays his farmers more than fair trade base. he does the value addition. he exports. and supports 14,000 ugandan farmers. but, you know, about 14,000 ugandan farmers sounds like a big number. if he take his annual turnover, it's only about two and a half million dollars. so that's what investment needs to get into come into africa. what do we doing about it as an

industry? i can give you the challenge facing farmers are they don't have access to decent web information tinformation the got access to pricing. they don't have access to capital, easy access to capital. and favre extension services are worse now than they were two decades ago. on tv a couple examples, 200 examples of things we're doing in safari, but also in africa. and information service for farming management a tool farmers use and we launched it without any big advertising only got about 170,000 farmers who are now using the. and reporting up to 50% improvement in their you. it's not a big deal. armed forces is a cloud-based mobile platform and keeps track of pesticide residue on produce

which helps that farmer not to manage the quality of the goods coming out. and actually makes you more attractive to the export market. a scheme providing crop insurance which helps deal with the decisions of life in africa and finally enable farmers to manage the crops effectively by using, but getting market timing information to traditional what a farmer which is take whatever price is given to them at the market. now he or she can decide what he wants to. i haven't talked about the impact that we are making on health care. this has been a big focus. women talk about how we use mobile phones to save expectant mothers. very high incidence of maternal

mortality in africa. the mobile phone is making an event. we haven't talked about what we're doing with education. again you can get a mobile phone to a child and give them access to any information in the world but that is such a huge leap from where he was yesterday, where he was in a school without even a segment on a floor. we haven't talked of course about -- so what i say is africa has a lot of challenges. biddies of doing business as we expected to be. however, what i would say for the intrepid is it's a fantastic place to be because innovation is driven by need. because we have such massive needs, it forces us to be innovative to make our businesses work. >> borders, borders become more cooperative in your line of business or are they -- >> it's shocking your having

talked about coal rates from kenya to the u.s., 5 cents. kenya to uganda, 28 cents. so these nontariff barriers are really a big problem. we can't move money easily from tanzania to kenya from uganda to rwanda. those barriers are as big as ever. >> thanks. you've see seems almost all the world and your now based -- what is your perspective? >> i think in trying to think about this particular discussion come at a think you all touch to a certain extent on some of these topics, what came to my mind, and it was really almost triggered last week i was here in washington. we've been working with the white house on the young african leadership initiative, and i had approach of actually hosting an event for all 500 washington fellows. and so this massive energy,

right, the youth of africa just came into the room and transform the room. there was just activity and they were through the expo. i spent about six hours, and my team can attest, i didn't stop talking one-to-one to individuals for six hours because their desire for information, their questions, the initiative that they had was just completely overwhelming. but it's also refreshing and i think it talk to the point of the inclusion of africa, right, the 55 countries in africa are very for unique. because each one of these individuals, there was one individual from the single washington fellow from your trip, as you know he is so different from the rest because he lives in a very different world. and yet the first question to me, so can i get a computer with microsoft software because i know my country is in park about 20 something about this because i want to connect to the rest of the world. so if such -- you refer to the

borders. the trade situation put her in africa gothic is a statistic that says the budget to trade in africa between africa comes to the east-west rather than the north-south trade in a year is equivalent to the amount of aid that is actually delivered to africa by well-intentioned multilateral and government organizations. so the relatives africa doesn't need the aid need to figure how to get the trade amongst itself to start work. and that is not trade between africa. i think that's again to take bob's book on this is trade between independent very diverse nations that need to learn to work together and break those barriers. so we have a view, and going to illustrate this i think and thinking and asking you to think about slums. think about the phenomenon of slums, and slums are growing at

an alarming rate around the world. there's about a billion people today that lived, or are slums toward. the forecast is by 2050, 3 billion people, almost one-third of the world's population will be living in a slum. there's something interesting about islam and many issues about slums but there's something about the people who live in islam have no tenure in the land where the lid. they don't belong to that land. they have no right to it. and so typically in the more traditional world, business, education, health care is dispensed on the basis of your tenure, on your location to you have a physical address, you show that you live in the committee and that community interacts with you or interacts with other communities. what we see africa leapfrogging some of those legacies is that t in the technology world, and the knowledge economy, in the

digital world, call it what you will, i have an address. i exists. within that world, which by the way as the boundaries, ma right? i can present myself. i can trade. i can acquire information. i can educate myself or my children. and that in itself, we think as a potential for africa to leapfrog and for the trade to start to become something meaningful. where the payment mechanisms are enormously important part, but so is government policy. and i think the whole companies be a focus which rather that i appreciate that there's a discussion about democracy and there's a discussion around civil society, those are all very important but there also needs to be a dialogue with governments in africa that refers to the policy of the digital age, avid policy of allowing africans, across africa to connect with the world to be

globally competitive, to participate in global economy, purely through that little device that they carry in their hand with which they are so comfortable. .. >> he said the cure for polio is not going to come from the

western world, because the western world doesn't need to invest resources figuring out the cure for polio, because it is almost eradicated. yet polio kills hundreds of thousands of churn in africa. -- children in africa. it's the one continent where that these so absolutely overwhelming. the cure for malaria will come from africa, because africa needs it. so that's, i think, as we see the opportunity for the development of africa and the connection of africa is going to be because africans address their own problems in their own unique way, but the solution so relevant to what they need, that it makes it a really feasible solution. so the 750 million young people in africa will participate in that market rather than, perhaps, a western or eastern or north european market. because there is the potential for that market. we take a view that says africa

becoming a net producer of knowledge, of technology is where africa needs to go, i think, to break the boundaries of sometimes the physical challenge, but also to create that almost unbelievable inclusiveness that these 55 countries need to figure out how to work on. and they're not there yet. i would argue that we are still far away from getting that. but it's possible. the technology exists. the innovation exists. the capacity exists. it needs to come together, i think, faster than it has up until now. >> thank you very much. just, you know, remembering broad numbers at the very beginning after independence in many countries there was a kind of positive period -- >> yes. >> -- and then there was a very tough period in the '90s of -- >>civil wars and liberation. >> and now we've had the best years, the last 10, 12 years in

modern history at least. >> right. >> so i would appreciate if maybe later on also during the debate, do you think this speed is what one should expect, or could it even accelerate a little bit more? you know, what are the key factors? strive? >> oh, thank you. you know, if you, if you go back to 1990, '91 when the work was going on that would lead to the revolution in africa, if you had come to those of us who worked in the industry then and said to me, you know, what would it take for 70% of the african population to get a telephone, how much would it cost, well, i would have said it's greater than our gdp across africa.

and if you had said, well, to put a phone in everybody's hands what, how would you do it, we probably would have called the police. [laughter] to get you locked up somewhere. but it has happened. some 700 million african people are connected. they have a cell phone. countries like botswana where we have a presence, a penetration of 150%, zimbabwe, 106%. i don't know where you are in kenya, bob. nigeria, 70 plus percent. people are connected. you can get a telephone b if you want it. you can have ten if you want. and there are incredible advantages to that. but maybe if i can just draw on one of them. an extraordinary amount of capital was drawn into african

telecommunications. 90%, 99% of it is private capital. it required african entrepreneurs who pushed the regulatory environment, who pushed for policy changes, who took risks in the early days. back in '94 there were very few multi-nationals taking a part in africa. the, it was local entrepreneurs fighting for spectrum, pushing to get mobile phones in place. and then we got, you know, people like waterford came in and partnered with many african entrepreneurs. so you see the need for regulatory oil frameworks -- policy frameworks for the private sector to begin to come in. the capital is there. there's a wall of capital ready

to build power stations, ready to build bridges and trains. if you would trust the private sector in the same way. you could do that in agriculture and many other sectors. so the entrepreneurs came in and pushed. and pushed a transformation which has seen this extraordinary connectivity. today we're no longer talking about connecting people. if you bring me a dozen cell phone licenses, i'm not really that keen to pursue them. we're in a second revolution where we are beginning to use these platforms as enablers for health care, for agriculture, for banking is services, financial inclusion, insurance, education.

these are the frontiers, as bob was talking early on, and we're beginning to push where in this connected platform is now a means towards bringing more and more people. because it was a revolution of the ordinary man. i've always said that the telecom revolution in africa was not a communications revolution, ironically. it was a revolution that was spurred by billing. when it became possible for someone in the slums to pay for their service, in the old system it was paid. you had to know where you lived and your credit history and so forth. but when we became possible to get a prepaid sim card, ironically, we already knew about radio communications and what you could do with that. but it was when we made it

possible for ordinary people to buy access in an affordable, includive hander. and that's what we're beginning to do again with financial services, hopefully with education insurance, agricultural extension. so this is the next phase of this revolution. and there is a third beginning to push its way which is the data revolution. the internet of things as somebody has -- it will not leave africa. from this data revolution, we are beginning now to see the footprint that will give people access to credit. imagine if you had to buy your car for cash, your house for cash, everything you ever bought for cash. not a lot of people in the u.s. would find -- you'd have a

revolution. [laughter] but that's how it is in africa. this connectivity going to create that next revolution. where it will become possible for ordinary people in the informal sector -- they are not unemployed. if they were unemployed, there would be a revolution. a lot of people are employed in the formal sector, they work just like you and i. they may not have a pay slip, but they are feeding their families, okay? and we need to make, to bring them into greater inclusion. thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you very much, strive. as a follow-up question, in terms of the education system, the skill system, is it accelerating? is it kind of -- i know some of these skills may not be that hard the acquire, others may be

more difficult. but are you seeing, any of you really, are you seeing the kind of education and training system adjusting to the new technologies and --? any? >> i would say very much so. i think what we're seeing is the transformation of education away from the traditional classroom methods using textbooks. and i would, actually, reference a young, group of young people in kenya. they set up this little business that is the word for book, and what they're essentially doing is digitizing textbooks, putting them on thumb drives and transporting them so that children can have access. we ourselves have an initiative called teaching with technology where our focus is on the teachers. and what we've seen is the transformation. i was recently in morocco and the conversation with the ministry was i have 65,000 problems. those are my teachers. because my teachers need to move faster than the iew pills, and they are not -- pupils, and they are not.

because the young people are moving very fast because they're adopting the technology so much faster. as a government, we need to understand how we get our teachers to move at least as fast as the young people. so we're seeing transformation in skills for employability so that more vocational oriented, the more creative, certainly a huge focus on entrepreneurship skills. and i think the formal sort of academic education is there, of course, and i think it'll remain so. but i think there's a much broader perspective on the use and adoption of technology around more socially active ways of creating. creating wealth. i think education and wealth creation are starting to run in parallel rather than as a formal serial process which, perhaps, worked 20, 30 years ago. >> i think there's a massive leap. you know, start with a kid who's sitting in a classroom that doesn't have cement on the floor and doesn't have a window,

right? so that's your starting point. and then you move from bricks to cliques, right? so suddenly you can deliver to this child the best quality of education, the best standard of education. you can bring a lecturer from zurich in the palm of their hands and deliver that information to here. and so that leap is happening now. one of the questions you asked earlier, you said, you know, innovation around the world coming into africa, but actually what we're finding now is that innovation in africa is moving to the rest of the world. the most obvious one is mobile money where we've driven the rest of the world in this area. and there's lots more coming out from places in nairobi. we've got a lot of these innovation hubs. and those things are moving out of africa and being exported to the rest of the world. >> i agree with all that, but on the other hand, i also see a lack of skills that we need from the standpoint of i'll call it technical skills around

engineering and things from universities. and it's a come to by nation. it's not -- combination. it's not like, one, the need continues to grow pretty dramatically, and it's to a degree magnified because many countries now have stringent localization requirements for you to be able to sell or invest in a country. so all of a sudden, you know, you have to go into a country, and for every one ex-pat you need to have nine locals. and the problem is you don't, you know, that country may not be equipped yet to provide you those -- >> numbers. >> -- from an educational standpoint. and so one of the, one of the world bank people i've heard this quoted that 11% of the college graduates graduate with degrees that are usable in business, and 70% are studying things that are not. now, i don't know where that comes from, but i do know that

in many of the countries, the technical skills -- engineering, things like that -- are not at the same level as, you know, business skills, law, legal, you know, typical other studies. so, and there's plenty of great business people, more engineers. you know, we need more of the young kids that are coming out, and that's going to be a key one. and i think that as many as there are graduating, just the need is multiplying faster than the schools can graduate. so i think it's up to companies like ours and others to really invest in that. we've invested in some curriculum development across some of the countries in some of the major universities, done internships, things like that to really drive that, because it's really going to be the linchpin. and quite frankly, it's not that different in the u.s. either. but, you know, it's almost a worldwide phenomenon outside of

asia. >> yeah. >> we're not getting enough technical people especially from the standpoint of what we need to do from engineering and things like that. but the, all of these issues that fernando and bob talked about, those are the ones that are going to really, hopefully, bridge that gap as these kids continue to mobile. >> you mentioned asia. and in the development of literature, there's quite a debate, of course. asia did extremely well, i mean, overall with some exceptions here and there over the last 30 years or so. but it did, a lot of that doing very well was really through manufacturing. you know, when you look at what happened in china, in korea before then, in some of the southeast asian nations, india less so. and yet the share of manufacturing, you know, in global demand, global output is limited at the end of the day.

and in terms of, you know, the kind of dynamics in africa it's probably not going to be a repeat of asia. it's manager different -- >> let me, let me -- >> right? any thoughts on that? >> yeah. i call it infrastructure. china, first time i went to china was 25 years ago. and at that time everyone was worried about rule of law, you know, the ability to protect your ip, etc., etc., security, the whole thing. and then in the '90s, later in the '90s i was in our plastics business, and we put a plant on nansha island instead of the mainland because we wanted to ship by boat because the mainland was a mess. there was no roads, there was no rail. and then one of the five-year plans in the late '90s, the

chinese said we're going to do infrastructure. they built a hundred airports, they built all of the highways, the rail and, boom. that's what unlocked china, was the ability to move and make them manufacturing. and all that manufacturing could get out of the country. and bob highlighted the issues you have. for us to put a-ing facility -- a manufacturing facility into a country in africa that you can't get goods out of the port for two to three weeks and then it takes however long to get delivered, or you can't make sure your goods get delivered to your customers, you don't have any security of electricity supply. that's an inhibitor to investment around that. and until those things get fixed, it's going to be hard, because i talk to a lot of heads of state. well, we've got cheap labor rates, we ought to be able to compete. all that ability is degraded by the infrastructure deficits that are there. and so as a result, africa becomes one of the highest cost

areas to manufacture anything. and i think that's a dynamic that's got to flip. and that's where infrastructure investment, i think, are going to really help out. >> i absolutely agree with jay about the need for infrastructure. but i think there also needs to be a bit of a will. again, i come back to my friend lou this morning who said africa has more mobile phones than america but doesn't manufacture or any. actually, manufacturing doesn't seem to be a glamorous thing. and by and large, people don't want to move into manufacturing. but if you don't, you're not going to create jobs. the opportunity for africa to become the next factory of the world is absolutely there because china is beginning -- we come back to this whole china/america debate. they're doing two things. one is they are investing in infrastructure across africa, and secondly they're saying if we can invest in infrastructure, we can invest in manufacturing. they've got very successful factories in ethiopia, for example. people don't look at

manufacturing as being a glamorous thing to get into. the big energy kind of investments is where governments tend to focus. if you don't get into manufacturing, you aren't going to provide jobs. >> strive, any comments on the role of manufacturing and the future of africa? is or is the whole question becoming kind of the wrong question? is the line between manufacturing and software, you know, we all talk about the ipad example be is the typical example. what kind of a product is this, you know? is the manufacturing product, or is it really something quite different, i mean, from the old type of -- even modern cars. when you look at how, what kind of cars are going to appear on the market 10, 15 years from now, a lot of the value added will be in the programming, in the kind of software of cars. i mean, there still will be, what do you call it, steel bending? >> metal bending. >> metal bending?

but that whole part, of course, is becoming more and more important. so maybe there is some kind of leapfrogging possibility there, too, that africa will in some sense do less steel bending than asia did, because the very nature of products and services in the world are changing. >> well, look, i'm not in manufacturing, and i would be wary to challenge ray -- jay on what he has to say from ge. but if he's moved from one billion to two and a half billion in three years, something must be going right in africa for him. [laughter] that's pretty good growth anywhere in the world, you know? so give us a break. we are working very hard to improve governance, to improve leadership, to improve infrastructure. some of these things take time, but i believe the fact that we

are able now to buy power plants from ge and have options to also go to china to buy some of this stuff, we will begin to address some of these infrastructure deficiencies. they are policy issues that we have to address. there, you know, we -- we are just like everybody else. we have issues to grapple with with education. i haven't come across any society where they say we're all happy with our education m here. we have challenges. we have half of the world's children that are not in school are in africa. the youngest population in the world is african. but we are not looking at this with despair. this is our hope, and we are going to turn this into our vision for the future. >> these are great -- >> yeah. >> sorry, let me just jump back

in again because you asked the question, and it's a very good question, are we looking at just metal bending? i was sitting next to the guys saying could we do coding in africa on behalf of? >> sure. >> there's also, you know, some intellectual stuff that we could be doing. >> right. >> and, you know, he's got -- he's sitting there. he's got tons of -- there he is. he's got tons of people. i don't know the number, he told me a moment ago. tons of people which could be doing this kind of stuff which currently is being done in asia, and it could very, very effectively come into africa. it's not just about metal building. >> to that point, what we're trying to do is look at some of the engineering graduates that are coming out. it's kind of like the old drafting and the basic levels of design, do it where you do things there. and we're looking at that in ethiopia and a couple of other countries. i don't want strive to think we're not -- we announced today

we're going to invest about $2.5 billion of our money into africa and across localization assembly facilities and manufacturing. so we are doing it. >> good, good. >> but over the next five years. there's also skills building. we're very optimistic in that, and i think it's just a question of, again, keeping up with the growth. because that's really the dynamics that's great about africa. >> i think we'll -- do you want to add? >> i just wanted to come back to -- >> yeah. >> i think sometimes when we look at china, india or brazil, we need to be very careful not to make this comparison directly, and i think, jay, to your point around infrastructure, when china put a five-year plan to building infrastructure, it was one government, and it was measured on the relative of success versus itself. in africa we have such a variety of success and benchmarking because some countries in africa have better governance than others.

some countries have better infrastructure than others. some countries actually achieve levels of success. the challenges that everybody's investing in africa. let's invest in a country in africa and enable that country to build its infrastructure. i would bet you that that country would surpass china very quickly. but, no, because we see this billion and a half or billion whatever people, we invest in africa. so it's almost like spreading peanut butter. we try to be very democratic with our investments. just put a big lump of peanut butter in the middle and let it go. that would create a different scenario. [applause] >> well, i think there are some questions from the floor, right? yes, i will -- miriam, why don't you start. we haven't mentioned trade, so i'm sure you will say something about trade. miriam was the deputy trade representative in the u.s., and we're lucky to have her. yes. >> thank you. miriam shapiro from brookings.

this morning moe made an impassioned plea for a single economic entity in africa, and each of you have operated companies across borders. so, and i think even fernando and bob mentioned some of the challenges with tariff barriers, nontariff barriers. so maybe this is the jelly approach instead of the peanut butter. but my question is given the variety of regional organizations, regional economic organizations that are growing in africa right now, do you think there is the possibility of much more unity in the economic trade and investment sphere? and if so, where do you see the potential success coming from? not to have echo us competing with eac or any of the other growing organizations, but what's your sense from being on the ground as to which would be the most promising and

potentially most useful? >> anyone who -- yes, fernando. >> [inaudible] >> jay, probably. >> well, i think, you know, the aspect of regionalization is absolutely going to be key to growth. and to the point that we've heard, it is 55 countries. and there's no way that microsoft or ge is going to put in 55 microsofts or ges. and we need to, if you will, regionalize. so if you'll take east africa as an example, you know, you have kenya at 40-50 million people, ethiopia at 80, tanzania at 40-50, but if you put them together with burundi and is uganda, you've got 200 million some odd people, maybe more. all of a sudden you have scale. now, the ability then to do something that you can then serve those countries, that's where you're going to, i think, see a lot of potential from that standpoint. and i think you have, you know,

there are eac, they have all got different things that are positives, and right now it seems like the eac is probably the furthest ahead. they are doing things on the borders, at least physical borders. not necessarily the tariffs, but, i mean, it's starting to happen. but it takes, it's a tough road because every country you go in wants to be -- i've been, i've been into five countries in the last six months in west africa, and every one has told me they're going to be the main supplier to the west africa power ool, and everyone else is going to off take from them. or the gas pipeline. and those are the things that it's got to be, the little countries have got to have some kind of wins as well as the big guys. and i think that's the balance. it's an interesting dynamic on we've talked about interafrica trade and stuff. earlier at this morning we had a

nigeria who says with the exception of ecowas, he needs 36 visas to travel around a africa. he goes americans can go, typically, and get visas at the airport. so he says it's not even equal within africa. so those are the kind of things that are things that i think can be broken down a little bit from a standpoint and really encourage this inter-africa trade. >> there was a question there,? with the lights i can't really see over there, so -- >> thank you. >> somebody needs to help me. >> yeah, go ahead. >> thank you. rob colorina, eic investment. fernando, your coming about the entrepreneurs was interesting. if you could take it further and comment as well, how do you take the entrepreneurs into sort of the disruptive type of class in terms of those that are going to be scaleable, those that are

going to be investable? i mean, the prior panel talked about private equity and venture capital, but that is a smaller funnel. i'd be curious as to the dynamics to that competitive advantage. >> so it's an interesting question because i think there is the balance between the risk of investing in africa because of the nature of the african risk or the risk of investing in a technology start-up or a manufacturing plant which is, essentially, equal anywhere across the world, and those risk assessments get done more on the basis of what is it that you're investing in, what is the infrastructure availability, what is the policy and so on. and i think perhaps there is a very high tendency towards thinking of investing in africa being risky because of africa. and perhaps i think if we start to change that a little bit and start to move the needle towards understanding that the basic presents is a business investment -- presence is a business investment or an infrastructure investment, then i think perhaps it will change

the conversation between the potential entrepreneurs or those on the ground and those who are looking to invest or looking to create growth. because if we look at it from the growth perspective, i think we would all agree this is paradise. the growth rates in africa are huge. and it's been sustained for quite a period of time. so i think sometimes the pair dime of which people -- paradigm of which people look at investment is something we need to worry about. the second point just to close is the nature of the investment, and there's a very big gap between seed capital and angel investment and then the venture capital and the institutional investment. and that gap needs to be bridged. and there's, i think, an opportunity with the african diaspora, there's an opportunity of looking at ways of bridging that gap p and putting some -- you know, a venture capital investment of $5 million is very difficult for most african start-ups to consume. there isn't the liquidity, and there isn't the size and the market. but if that's the u.s.