royalties than pandora does, and owning a terrestrial radio station was a vehicle for us to take advantage of a better licensing regime. >> host: chris harrison is vice president of pandora media, and haley sukiyaha is with "the washington post." thank you. >> guest: thanks. >> c-span2, providing lye coverage of -- live coverage of the u.s. senate floor proceedings, and every weekend booktv now for 15 years the only television network devoted to nonfiction books and authors. c-span2, created by the cable tv industry and brought to you today's author is blaine harden talking about "escape from camp 14," recounting the story of a man who escaped from a north korean prison. watch that interview later today at 7 p.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> all week watch booktv in prime time.

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202-626-3400 or e-mail us at comments@c-span.org. join the c-span conversation. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> cruise ship passengers who were the victims of sexual assault testified before congress earlier this year. they appeared before a senate committee hearing examining safety and security regulations for the cruise ship industry. senate commerce committee chair john rockefeller said the cruise passenger protection act was written so passengers will be protected from crime and get proper medical care while traveling op the high seas. from -- on the high seas. from july, this is just over an hour, 20 minutes. >> now, for those who came here for a different purpose, again, i want to apologize. this was a chance to get out five bills, and if you've been watching the united states senate or the congress for that matter, getting a bill out of a committee is a triumphant moment, you see? so we had to take advantage to get five out. but the point of this harding is all of you. so i'm going to make, begin,

make my opening statement -- >> mr. chairman, may i be recorded in favor of these five -- >> of course. >> thank you. >> so ordered. all right. i'd like to begin this hearing in the same way i started the hearing i held on the cruise industry last year, by saying that most people who take cruise ship vacations have a good experience. millions of americans finish i'd like to have silence, please. millions of americans go on cruises every year. most of the time they have a nice trip, and they return home safely just like the cruise companies promise in their advertisements. but once in a while things can go terribly wrong. ships catch fire be, passengers fall overboard or get sick, crew members sexually assault passengers. instances like these are, unfortunately, also a part of the cruise experience. i'm very honored today to welcome four witnesses who will help us understand firsthand the consequences of these incidents.

we've talked about them this sort of a larger way, but we have not had the direct testimony of those affected by it and those who represent some who were affected by it. so that's what this hearing is for. the fact that some senators have left, don't let that bother you. mark-ups are unusual, and that's why they had to come, because they're all 13, then they had to go do something else. but you're the point of all of this, and i want that to be very, very clear to you. as i said, i'm very glad to welcome four witnesses who will help us understand firsthand the consequences of these incident, what they had to go through. and i recognize that this is not an easy subject to talk about. let that be said, okay? so that it's painful, and however you reflect that pain, the committee understands it, welcomes it, joins you in, you know, the difficulty of coming

up here and testifying before a senate committee. although it's really not that difficult after all. the cruise industry, i'm happy to say, is not happy that i'm holding this hearing. they're very up happy. unhappy. those companies don't like it when congress and the media talk about the risk of taking a cruise vacation. they have repeatedly told this committee in both public hearings and private meetings that cruise ships and trips are safe. that's it. no need to do anything. but the facts tell a different story. it means that -- it doesn't mean that, as i said, the average person will have a good experience. but you don't judge a steel plant by, you know, 500 workers not being hurt, but 30 workers being very badly hurt. i mean, it's the problems that you have to address. so the facts tell a different story. last year our committee released a report that found hundreds of

cruise crimes were not being publicly reported. very basic negligence. we've had several hearings where expert witnesses testified about ongoing safety and security problems like wrecks, fires, crimes onboard these vessels. and we continue to see the same issues continuing, to continue. and i'm fed up with it. i'm fed up with them trying to stonewall us. yes, they have lots of money, and they have lots of lobbyists, and that's -- we're going to win this one. almost exactly one year ago, carnival's president told this committee that his company's number one priority is, quote, the safety and security of our guests. he explained to us how the cruise lines have every incentive to make sure their customers have a good experience. that sounds nice in a congressional hearing, but it's little comfort to the many

people whose vacations or in a number of cases lives have been ruined by the cruise line's failure to deliver on their promises. that is, if they got a chance to see what the promises were, which is a problem in and of itself. and we'll talk about that. in spite of the evidence that crimes, fires, mechanical failures, drownings and mishandled medical emergencies occur with disturbing regularity on cruise ships, the industry continues to deny that it has a problem. any problem. just denies it has any problems. it has circled the wagons and reflexively fought all efforts to provide consumers more information about the risks of cruise ship vacations. i don't mind if they talk about the joys and the pleasures, but people have to talk about the risks too. it's not fair if they don't. they often refer to, you know, new york city doesn't -- they have all kinds of problems. but they don't advertise their problems. yeah, but when you're on a cruise ship, you know, out in

the ocean somewhere, there isn't a hospital next door, there isn't a police station to go to. i mean, you're just on an island all by yourself, and it's a very different feeling than being part of a community which can come to help. so that's where my legislation comes in. last year after witnessing the costa concordia tragedy, the carnal triumph debacle and learning about the underreported number of crimes on cruise ships, i introduced something called the cruise passenger protection act of 2013. in this bill i proposed making it easier for consumers to report crimes and and make complaints about problems on cruise ships. everything is about making it easier. if you make it hard, a lot of people just won't do it. and unfortunately, when you have an encapsulated environment like a cruise ship trip, you have to be able to report. you just have to be able to do

that. and do it fairly easily. so we headache it easier -- make be it easier to report. i've also proposed publishing more information about crimes and other problems on cruise ships. you know what i'm talking about when i talk about the ticket problem. you have to peel, you know, layers of paper away, and you're just signing a ticket. but it's underneath that somewhere that it says, oh, by the way, you give up your liability. that is not nice. it's a terrible thing to do to passengers. these aren't crazy ideas that i'm suggesting. they're common sense protections that consumers already have if they travel, for example, in airplanes or if they travel by rail. but the cruise industry vehemently opposes my bill, even the bill's simplest provisions like reporting crimes against miles per hours or put -- minors or putting up a web site that

consumers can consult while they're making their vacation plans so they can see what the problems might be and what the advantages might be so they're making an informed decision. when an industry opposes even the most basic public disclosure about its conduct, it suggests to me, frankly, that it has something to hide. our witnesses today are going to help us understand why it is so important for consumers to have this information. unlike people vacationing on land, cruise ship passengers who are victims of crime do not have immediate access to law enforcement. well, you'd say, well, sure, they're out at sea. yeah, but they're out at sea, and they don't have access to law enforcement. that's pretty basic. and if they suffer a health emergency on a cruise, they could be hundreds of miles away from a health facility that operates at u.s. standards or even below u.s. standards, just something called a hospital. our witnesses are also going to tell us that in spite of the cruise industry's talk about

taking responsibility for their passengers, cruise companies sometimes treat their customers with shocking callousness and disregard. my words are harsh because i'm angry about this. four witnesses are appearing before this committee today, and i thank them. but there are many, many more people, as you all know, who could have shared their experiences and have with my staff, ken carver, jamie barnett and countless others have fought for years to help protect others from needless tragedy. i would like to thank everybody who's been willing to step forward and tell us their stories despite, as i indicated, the painful and sometimes tragic circumstances. not just that they happened, but having to recall them verbally and publicly. having accurate statistics about crimes and other incidents is important, and it's even more important to understand the human cost of the safety and security problems that this industry is not fully acknowledging.

this hearing along with other hearings and inquiries i've made into the cruise industry since i've been chairman are about one thing, and it's called accountability. being honest with people. i know the cruise companies think that i am singling them out, as they say, for special scrutiny. but i assure them that is not the case. i have never hesitated to ask companies tough questions when i think their business practices are hurting consumers. that's my job. that's all of our jobs. we have oversight. that's the main reason we exist as a commerce committee, is to have oversight. and to try and make things better. this process of asking tough questions is called, in fact, oversight. it's one of the most important jobs congressional committees have, maybe the most important. when it comes to the cruise industry, we've been doing our job. we have held hearing, we have an lietzed the data -- analyzed the data and talked to many different people with experiences in this industry.

this oversight has led us very clearly to the conclusion that we have to act. we need legislation to protect consumers. for anyone in this committee who still hasn't gotten the message, i urge you to listen closely today as these witnesses bravely share their experiences. i thank everybody, but i have one closing statement. and to the cruise industry, instead of fighting this process, i encourage you to listen carefully to the testimony today. i ask you to honestly consider whether there are steps that you can take to better protect the health and safety of your passengers. look, this is the -- the cruise industry is booming. people love to travel. people love to go on those ships. and i don't begrudge them that. my own son has done that. i don't begrudge people that. they have a right to do that, but they also have responsibility since they're under our jurisdiction to do it safely and properly for

everyone. i believe there are steps that they can take, and i will continue pushing to make those things happen. i now call upon the distinguished senator from mississippi, roger wicker. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think you've made a number of very important and valid points. i also want to thank the witnesses for being here. and as you said, mr. chairman, it may be difficult for them to share their experiences, but it's important that they do so, and i appreciate their courage in coming forward and being able to the share with us today on some information we need. the chair has billed this hearing as a forum to discuss his bill, the cruise ship passenger protection act, s. 1340. we need to protect passengers from crime, we need to insure access to medical care while on the high seas. these are important and worthy issues. i would say i think that it

would be best the if we consider -- best if we consider this legislation as a stand-alone bill and not in connection with the coast guard authorization act. i don't know what the chair's approach to this is going to be, but i do not believe the reauthorization act is the appropriate vehicle for a cruise passenger protection bill. in my judgment, we ought to consider cruise ship passenger protection legislation separately from the coast guard authorization act. congress deserves the opportunity to examine how we can strengthen the transparency of crimes on the high seas and the public deserves a discussion with full congressional attention to making cruising safer for americans and foreign tourists while visiting u.s. ports. there are many areas in which the cruise ship industry is receiving criticism including the effectiveness of crime

prevention, the response to crime, sexual assault, the report of incidents ask tax concerns. i hope that safety standards like those that could have been bicep official in the treatment of violet butler are a priority in this discussion. there are cruise ships underway with maximum capacities larger than many of our small towns and cities this america. some cruise -- in america. some cruise ships have more than 6,000 passengers and some 2,000 staff along with them. and yet they only require two medical professionals onboard. imagine a small town of that size, for example, in rural mississippi. imagine my native home in mississippi where there's some 5,700 people living, and what if we only had two medical

professionals in the whole town? as a matter of fact, in my native city we have 29 health care professionals, 21 members of the police force as well as 24-hour physician care in the emergency room. so there is, that gives me great pause to think that a cruise ship of only -- containing 8,000 souls would have only two medical professionals aboard. so we need transparency, we need to promote self-correcting behavior, and we all have a right to hear the stories of the victims. we do not need to paint the entire industry with a broad brush because of a few bad actors. i think the chair acknowledges that. but we should look for ways to

partner with the industry to make passenger cruises a safe environment for our american passengers and tourists, and i encourage the cruise line industry association to work with congress to find a market-driven solution. so thank you, mr. chairman, and i'll look forward now to getting to the testimony of our witnesses. >> thank you, senator wicker, very much. the senator and i come from states with hot of rural maces -- with lots of rural places. my sort of hometown has about 270 people. so you're urban compared to us. [laughter] okay. let me just go right to the witnesses. lori dishman had a very, very bad experience on a royal caribbean cruise in 2006. she's also an international

cruise victims associate, association board member which means she wants to follow through on that. i'll read each of the four and then call on one by one. phil gersin represented a 15-year-old minor who was raped on a cruise ship. he is also on that same board and chairman of the -- also chairman of the national center for victims of crime. and i'm grateful that he is here. amanda butler, who i just met outside whose mother suffered a medical emergency on a carnival cruise in 2013 and likely passed away there a lack of adequate medical care. i'm proud that you're here. and kim ware who has, was a passenger on the carnival triumph that caught fire in 2013 and was stranded for four days. now, that's -- those are are easy things for me to say, but they're very hard to have gone through and even to to talk about.

so let's get at it, and i'm going to call on lori dishman, and thank you so much for being here. >> hello. my name is lori dishman. i would like to thank the chairman and the committee for con veeping this hearing and inviting me to washington. it is quite an honor and privilege to be here today. senator rockefeller, i am a cruise ship rape victim. i have an experience to tell you about. a cruise line employee raped me during a vacation on a roy call caribbean -- royal caribbean cruise to mexico. he was working as a security guard in a disco on the ship. he approached me and asked me my name and cabin number. he later snuck down to my cabin and forced his way in. i resisted and struggled. he strangled me and brutally raped me. i awoke with ligature marks around my neck, and my tampon

was impacted during the brutal rape. i did not know what to do, i did not know who to turn to. there were no police on the ship. i learned i was hesitant to call and report the crime because he wore a security badge. just three days earlier i was looking forward to this cruise, the glossy-colored brochures advertised an adventure every day, an experience to remember. i was celebrating my birthday and 30 years of friendship with my best friend, michelle. we've known each other since we were 5 years old. i was so excited. but in the end -- in the evening, i would find myself in the middle of a night hair. michelle called the purser desk to report the crime. a security officer and the head purser came to the cab by and sat on the bed where the rape occurred. i tried to tell them what happened, but they insisted that i prepare a written statement

and sign it. they left without securing the cabin or taking me to the infirmary. after i had finished my statement, the security officer took me and michelle to the infirmary. the doctor handed us two black garbage bags and asked us to go back to the cabin and collect the evidence. we tried to preserve hair and other items, folding the pillow cases and sheets not knowing really what we were supposed to be doing. we returned to the infirmary along the public hallways with still all men surrounding us. it was a painful and humiliating ordeal. the ship doctor eventually performed the rape kit and examined my neck. i was returned to my cabin after the ordeal in the ship infirmary. i was traumatized to be back at the scene of the crime. i could not take my eyes off the hat dress where the crime occurred, strips of its sheets, pillow cases. the hat dress seemed naked and -- mattress seemed naked and

dirty to me. it looked like how i felt. i could not stop thinking about what had just happened to me. i did not know what would happen next. i was eventually given three options; to the get off the ship in mexico and report it to the local port authorities, to stay off the cruise ship -- stay on the cruise ship and report it to the fbi when we returned or fly back to l.a. and report the rape to the if, bi. i opted to the fly back to los angeles as soon as i could get off the ship. once in l.a. i was questioned extensively by the fbi, and they photographed the bruisings around my neck. a few days later, the fbi boarded the ship when it returned to port. together with the cruise line defense attorneys. the crew member denied even going into my cabin. he did not pass the polygraph, but the fbi said it was a he said/she said case and declined to arrest him. the department of justice

declined the prosecute on that same day. the cruise ship then set sail again full of passengers with a rapist onboard. two days later i learned the crew member changed his story and admitted going to my cabin. it was only then that the cruise line confined the cabin -- con tined him to his cabin and then put a security forward outside his door. and then terminated his employment and flew him home to trinidad. with nowhere to turn, i hired a maritime lawyer in miami. why miami? is because even though i live in sacramento, the cruise left from l.a. and the crime so curred in international waters, and in the ticket it says that you need to find an attorney in miami. my attorney found out many things that surprised and angered me. the security guard was actually a janitor who the cruise line called a cleaning specialist who was paid $550 a month. he was assigned to the act as a

security department because the cruise ship's limited number of legitimate guards on its staff. he had no training or experience at all as a security guard. royal caribbean records, i found royal caribbean's records my attorney uncovered revealed an low history which included lying, insubordination and anger management, and he also had sexually harassed two girls six weeks before he raped he, and they put him in a security guard uniform. we also learned that on the night in question the witness observed him drinking beers given to him by the cruise line winders. royal -- benders. royal caribbean received court orders stating that the crude line had studied the problem of sexual assaults on their ships back as far as 1989, but outside experts concluded that sexual

misconduct occurred frequently. now, the head security guard that came in the cabin it would me, lori, this never happens. but the cruise line ignored what their experts told them by telling the plunge that crimes are very -- the public that crimes are very rare. in 2007 i joined the international cruise victims, and i am now a member of the icv board. i have testified in the house before the house of representatives in support of the cruise vessel safety, security and safety act. today i am joined with the chairman of icv, board members and friends of icv. in closing, cruise consumers have virtually no rights or protections. i know this firsthand. i know exactly how it feels to have no rights and to be victimized by the cruise line a second time after their employee assaulted me. certainly our congress can require such a powerful industry to the timely and accurately report crimes against cruise ship guests, provide a clear and

accurate statement of our rights embodied in a ticket without incomprehensible legal mumbo jumbo, hire competent medical providers and provide protection under a consumer agency which will help us in our time of need. thank you. >> thank you very much, ms. dishman. and you did that well, and i know it was hard. we will have questions, but first we want to hear from phil gersin, who as i indicated, is a lawyer who represented a 15-year-old minor who was raped on a cruise ship. mr.-- >> thank you, mr. chairman and members of the chief. my name is -- [inaudible] gerson, i'm a lawyer in miami, florida. for more than -- [inaudible] for more than 40 years my law

practice has focused on representing crime victims both at sea and on land. i appreciate your invitation and your willingness to consider my views in this august chamber. i will be brief. i will not read to you from my written testimony which states the case facts about the incident the chairman just referred to in more detail than i will mention now, and i welcome any questions the senators may ask. the cruise passenger protection act should be passed. it is far short of the needed solutions, but it is a next step on the alt the greater -- on the path to greater passenger safety. if you think that young women are safe on cruise ships, think again. they're not. my 15-year-old autistic taming client was not -- teenage client was not supervised like she was on land because her family thought that she was safe.

they were vigilant in hanging all of her activities scrupulously and on the ship she was supervised in teen activities. on the last night of the cruise, the teen activities ended early, but no one told her parents, and she was gullibly led away by a sexual predator to his stateroom where she was brutal hi raped and attack -- brutally raped by a juvenile and an adult male. this occurred two years after the cruise vessel safety and security act of 2010 was signed into law. but despite that fact, her stateroom was lysoled and cleaned before law enforcement could gain access to it. security said, well, there was a mistake, we locked it out, but the housekeepers somehow

overrode the lockout not knowing that a crime had been committed and the evidence on the bed clothes and other evidence in the room was lost. fortunately, our state legislature has had the wiz tom to enact and to extend jurisdiction to crimes on cruise ships when the ships leave and return from florida ports. so there were ft. lauderdale-based, broward sheriffs' deputies standing on the pier who took custody of these two offenders, and they were punished under state law. had this occurred anywhere else besides florida, they likely would have gone unapprehended and unpunished. now, what's worse about what happened is that the cruise lines not only suppressed the

facts, but they foster a misleading disinformation campaign boasting that vacationers are safer at sea that than they are on land. now, in some ways you are safer at sea. you're not going to get hit by a car or a truck walking in public places, nor is it likely that you're going to be shot by an armed robber because there are no vehicles or guns allowed on the ship. but sexual crimes like the one that my innocent teenage client was the victim of are far too common, and the risks of them are high. there are thousands of people onboard x there are no police to deter crime or to stop a crime before it harms somebody. ship security officers are trained to to protect ship owners, not anticipations, and

that's -- not passengers, and that's exactly what they do. the real answer in my view based on my lifetime of experience in this work is that independent sea marshals should be placed on cruise ships, a trivial cost in view of the large number of people who are assembled on these floating city vacations. if we can't get that today, we can start now with d.o.t. empowerment to make the risks nope. known. truthful disclosure of risks has been required by government for decades, and it is a part of the fundamental fairness which is the fabric of the american, the american society. full disclosures of risks is a first step toward improving safety. very few travelers understand the legal relationship which exists in the cruise contract.

as passengers cross the gangway, they surrender all legal rights to protect their own welfare except as the cruise ticket allows them to. this is not an informed consent. the ticket doesn't explain how the legal relationship is different at sea from what we know it to be on land, and and it ises not semantics when we refer to the ship's captain as the master. the master is just that, and the passengers have virtually no individual rights. the cruise line industry association bill of rights is illusory, it's empty, and it's meaningless. a close reading of the cruise line tickets reveal a fright beening list of contractual and statutory disclaimers of any legal responsibility for harms to passengers. the tickets say the cruise line

has no legal liability in port for any excursion which they arrange, which they sell to the passengers and which they share fees with the tour operators with, but they disclaim any responsibility. they say the same thing about the physician services that they sell in shipboard medical clinics onboard. but if there's medical negligence, they have no legal responsibility. there are also arcane statutory and international maritime treaties which limit passenger rights and passenger remedies when something goes wrong onboard, and neither the cruise ticket, nor the cruise line adequately inform the passengers of the nature or extent of what they have given up by crsessing that gang -- by crossing that gangway. the bill should be passed so

that the outdated buyer-beware business relationships at sea are replaced with truth in advertising, full disclosure and informed consent which are the hallmarks of american life required by government from business and industry. until congress gives passengers more protections, american nationals on cruise ships are just on their own. i invite you to read my brief written statement which provides more details so that i take no more time than is necessary now, and i volunteer to assist in this process in any way that i can in the future. >> thank you, sir, very much. amanda butler. your here suffered a medical emergency in 2013 on a carnival cruise, and as i indicated, probably passed away from a lack

of adequate medical care. >> senator rockefeller, members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to tell hi mother's story -- to tell my mother's story, to share what we have learned and to offer recommendations from our perspective in an effort to insure that no other family will go through what we had to experience. my mother experienced a catastrophic health event on a family cruise april 18, 2013. she subsequently passed away on may 4th with the cause of death listed as a -- [inaudible] brain injury. she was a woman who loved life, loved her family. she had a general b rouse -- generous heart. she was a faithful and devoted wife and mother who was there to nurture her children, support her husband and provide care and kindness to many individuals in our community of columbus, mississippi. in fact, more than 800 people came from the community to her

visitation. we had just returned from a shore excursion on april 18th, passed through security and were planning events for the evening when she collapsed in mid-sentence. she had no pulse. she was not breathing. i ran to plead with security personnel in the area, but all that they did was seal off the entrance and exit of the boat so nobody could see that there was a problem and an event that had happened. they did not step forward period to help my mother, and in one indicated that they were calling for help. so i ran down the corridors in an attempt to find a defibrillator or someone that could explain that we have a medical emergency. a nurse arrived after my mother had been on the ship floor for what american physicians are estimating to be 15 minutes.

the nurse had a radio but no defibrillator and no medical equipment when she arrived. she examined my mother, and then she waited for a gur think to arrive -- gurney to arrive. she did not initiate cpr. my mother was taken into the medical facility located within a distance that my father and myself could have carried her had we been told. they had to unlock the doors, turn on the lights and the computers and prepare the tiny examination room for the reis usation process -- resuscitation process. they set up a portable defibrillator. after four cycles, her pulse did return. nevertheless, the duffer ration of time that she went without oxygen approached 32 minutes. once resuscitated, we were instructed to leave the ship. we did not have the option to stay. my father went to his room with personnel to pack their bags, and carnival sent their

personnel into my room to gather my belongings. they made us stay on the gangway, and after we got off of the water taxi, we had to wait on an ambulance to come and get her. one carnival low accompanied us, but no -- employee accompanied us but no arrangements were made with customs to expedite us as a medical emergency. we were all processed as tourists, including my comatose mother. the carnival employee gave my father the telephone number for the port authority and left us completely alone in a torn country to find our open way to transport my mother back to the united states for additional medical treatment. carnival's current contract states that they are not responsible or liable for anything involving the welfare or safety of its passengers. the company makes no assurances that a physician will be available on a cruise, and it

states that medical care, in fact, may not be available at all or will be delayed. the contract also states that carnival is not responsible for the actions of physicians and nurses whom it considers independent contractors. as it turned out, my mother's cardiac event was the type that had she received cpr in a timely manner, she would be here today. my mother died needlessly because humane emergency protocol was not followed. or enforced. the contract was too small to read. the general public does not understand all u.s. rights are surrendered to carnival upon entering that vessel. had we known, our family would have never boarded that ship. we offer the following recommendations to improve health care, we know that some

of these items are included in the cruise vessel security and safety act of 2010, but we have within informed also that the medical requirements of that act have been very narrowly interpreted. our recommendations would be to modify the 2010 act to add a section on general medical care with the following requirements: aed machines, defibrillators. they should be placed throughout each ship with locations clearly designated and discussed during the initial safety meeting. cpr training and certification should be a requirement for all personnel on the ships. personnel must be trained on how to respond to medical or e her gent situations including alerting and summoning medical assistance and initial response to aid the passenger can and family.

the english language should be a requirement for personnel on these vessels that have united states ports of call. at a minimum, all personnel should be able to understand keywords such as emergency, help, doctor. 24-hour health care is necessary given that these ships carry several thousand people per cruise. the ship's physician must be present and available to treat passengers or must be on call for immediate response to the event. of the emergency situation. doctors must have united states medical board credentials in emergency medicine, internal medicine or family medicine and have at least served a pact couple. -- [inaudible] has agreed to adopt standards and more, however, carnival has ignored virtually all of the standards that they agreed to to

imelement -- implement their ships as a member of clia. this must change for the safety and welfare of future passengers. my father and i greatly appreciate the opportunity to tell my mother's story, our experiences and our recommendations before this committee. thank you. >> no, thank you very much, ms. butler. i think just for the benefit of the members of the committee, what amanda butler has been talking about in part is i would have to lose 60 years off my present life and have triple strong glasses and probably a magnifying glass to be able to read what you're talking about. >> yes. yes. >> i mean, this is -- i gave it to bill nelson, and -- well,

he's getting older too. [laughter] i heene, you give up -- >> your rights. >> -- your liability. and and you have no idea that you're doing this, one, because you can't read this thing. i'm breaking protocol here, and i apologize. you give things up, you don't know what. you can't possibly read this. when you buy a ticket, you're kind of in a hurry, that's the whole point, and in this is your whole trip. >> right. >> so to speak. and i, it's just, to me, deceit ful. easy the correct and unnecessary. >> if you don't mind, could i make one more statement, senator? >> yes. >> will carnival is sowing -- carnival is suing my tower and myself over $1200, literally, for the lack of medical care that we received after they dumped us off on an island completely alone.

you do give up all of your rights. my mother was left in the hot tropical sun, and she did not have a chance because of the way that they treated her medically. >> i thank you and i apologize to my colleagues for interrupting the protocol. kim ware was a passenger on the carnival triumph that caught fire in 2013 and was stranded for four days which i really want to hear about. i don't know how one gets stranded for four days on a cruise ship. >> chairman rockefeller, committee members, my name is kim ware, i am from houston, texas. i'm the mother of five children and three grandchilden. my family and i have cruised many times. we love cruising, and i naively had never given a thought to the

possible dangers onboard a cruise ship. being weary of the cold in february 2013, my boyfriend ed and i booked a last minute cruise on the carnival triumph to enjoy some sun in mexico. for the first two days of the trip, everything went as planned. as we went to bed on the second day, we had no idea what was to come. the passengers of the carnival triumph would be adrift at sea for four days living in horrendous conditions. in the early morning hours of our third day at sea, we were awakened by an emergency announcement that sounded ominous. ed quickly jumped up and went onto our balcony where he saw a great amount of smoke coming from the back of the ship. we immediately knew it was a fire. fear overcame me immediately as during our muster drill the crew had repeated over and over that fire was our gravest danger when at sea.

shortly thereafter, the cruise direct canner informed us that there was a situation in the engine room. there was confusion among the passengers as to whether to go to the muster stations or not. several hours later our worst fears were confirmed, there had been a fire. it was out, but we were dead in the water, no power. eventually, the giant ship began to list, and as you can imagine, this caused a great deal of fear among the passengers that the ship was going to cab -- capsize. it was soon very clear that carnival cruise lines had no plan in place for such a disaster. they were, essentially, wigging it. winging it. conditions aboard the ship began to decay quickly. there was no electricity. we had water intermittently are. we were informed that the sewage system no longer operated. all passengers were given red bio bags to use instead of the

toilets. as passengers understandably did not want to use the bags, all public toilets onboard the ship were quickly filled to the top with human waste. the sewer system quickly backed up and came out of the shower drains and later red bio bags lined the hall filled with feces. the stench was terrible, and sanitation aboard the ship was nonexistent. i was one of the very fortunate passengers who had a balcony cab win. the unluckily passengers who had booked inside cab byes had no is access to fresh air or sunlight. these passengers were forced to move their families to mattresses in the hallways on upper decks or onto the lounge chairs where sheets were quickly raised as rex from the -- protection from the sun. a tent city was born. these passengers suffered a worst hardships. it was very disconcerting to see

the elderly and young chirp in these circumstances -- children in these circumstances. i couldn't help but wonder if the elderly had their medicine with them, had the parents with babies packed enough diapers? passengers waited hours in line for food. hoarding food became a problem as people were concerned that food would run out. i witnessed many heated arguments among passengers other food hoarding. the buffet no longer looked clean, people who had not bathed in days were handling serving you ten sills and food. utensils and food. with the unsanitary conditions of the food service and the sewage problem, it is a miracle that a massive viral outbreak did not occur. i was constantly in fear of becoming sick in these conditions. we tried to stay out of the lick areas as hutch as possible -- as much as possible. in truth, the entire ship had quickly become a refugee camp. i was very concerned that

violence was going to arrive as passengers struggled with these living conditions. there seemed to be no security at all. at night the ship became very dark, and i never saw any type of security patrolling the ship. as time slowly dragged on, the plans to get us back to shore kept changing. first, we would go to progresso and be flown out. the final decision was tugs would pull us into mobile, alabama. this decision was made with no thought to the passengers onboard. going to mobile caused the passengers to endure the miserable conditions aboard the triumph for an extra 24 hours. with no way to communicate with my family and days adrift at sea, i felt as though the cruise would never end. i finally broke down and cried. upon return home, the only communication i received from carnival was a letter with a $500 check and a refound voucher towards a future cruise.

this seemed to me inadequate for the danger i was put in aboard the triumph. after being home a while, i realized that i had put my trust in the cruise industry with no knowledge of what would happen in the event of a real emergency situation. i now know that carnival sent the triumph out with only four of the six generators working and with knowledge of a potential fire hazard in the fuel lines. i wish i'd known these things prior to setting sail. i feel that the cruise ship industry has a duty to provide not only a great vacation for passengers, but to insure their safety at all costs and to impart the utmost care when an emergency arises. information should be made public of problems occurring on cruise ships so that future be passengers can make educated decisions on which lines to travel. further, passengers should have the right to pursue compensation for any wrong doing on the cruise industry's part. cruising is a wonderful way for

families to vacation together. however, cruising needs to be made safer for all u.s. citizens. my hope is that congress will pass legislation to insure that the cruise industry abides by strict standards for passenger safety so that a future disaster of even greater magnitude aboard a cruise ship can be avoided. thank you for your time. >> thank you very much, ms. ware. i'm going the start the questioning to be followed by senator wicker, senator nelson if he comes back and senator bell itch and senator blumenthal -- egg -- senator begich, and senator blumenthal's one of the most astute questioners i've ever will willd to. but you're last. so be patient and stick around. [laughter] last year -- this is going to be

a question for you, ms. butler. last year the major cruise lines adopted what they call a passenger bill of rights. now, we've done that in the airline industry, and we pretty much enforce it. one of those so-called rights is that passengers have the right to, quote, full-time professional emergency medical attention as needed until shoreside medical care becomes available. that's their language, not mind. not mine. and a few weeks ago senior representatives from the cruise line international association, which i affectionately refer to as clia, told my staff that cruise lines have a duty to provide passengers competent medical care. my question to you is would you say that the medical care provided to your mother, you know, in the first iteration it

was full-time professional medical anticipation is needed until shore or medical care became available, and then all of a sudden it became competent medical care. so my question to you is was the medical care provided to your mother competent? is. >> no. they did everything wrong. we were expecting that one of the security guards would step forward to initiate cpr. instead, they waited at least ten minutes to even call for someone to come down and look at my mother's body to see if she was breathing or not. and in that case, you know, she was not breathing. she did not have a pulse. and to top it off, the infirmary was closed. so we had to wait literally for them to turn everything on. they had to unlock the defibrillator, the aed, out of a closet and then plug it into a

wall. they had to set up their hospital while we're standing there waiting and my mom's not breathing. it was horrific. and completely unacceptable for american citizens. >> now, in your mother's case, carnival claims that it has and had no duty to provide medical care, in duty to train -- no duty to train or supervise medical staff and no duty to make the sick bay available. further, they claim no tooth to pro-- no duty to provide medical equipment like a basic automatic external defibrillator machine. so, ms. butler, when you bought your ticket for the cruise, did you understand that if you accepted medical care provided by the cruise line, you would be do doing so at your open risk, at your own cost and that the cruise line would deny liability for the quality of the care?

>> we had no idea. we couldn't read the font. it was tiny. you have to click a link and click, yes, i agree to even be able to print off your ticket. but you can't see what they're trying to hide. and the average layperson, you know, we're a humble family from mississippi. we didn't own, we don't own a magnifying glass, and we weren't going the print it off and then try to figure out what their legal jargon or lack thereof was hidden in the contract. >> plus you assume a certain level of responsibility, right? >> yes, yes. >> you all have, senator bell itch, senator -- senator begich, senator blumenthal, do you have this in your folders? i'd just like to have it passed to each of you.

i've circled the word "liability," but it's unbelievable. i mean, i can't read any of it. >> neither could we. >> yeah. [laughter] at the againing of the soy -- at the beginning of the voyage, cruise lines provide safety, and this is to anybody, provide safety information at a, quote, muster drill. to help passengers prepare for an emergency like a fire or a wreck. this information helps passengers prepare and know what to do in the event of an emergency. my questions for the panel, many of you experienced emergency situations that you were unprepared for. did the cruise lines provide any information on what to do in the event of criminal or medical emergency? i'm asking. any of you. >> senator, no. in my situation, no. the cruise line did not. >> in our situation as well, senator, no.

and it would be very simple to simply just add, oh, by the way, our medical infirmary is on yada yada floor. >> right. >> are you know, we had no idea where to go. >> the obvious question would, if you'd had this information, that might have helped, right? >> if we'd had the information, we could have saved her life, you know? someone should have given her cpr. >> okay. well, i've got more questions, but my time is up for my first round, so i go to senator egg itch. >> thank you -- senator begich. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and i appreciate the opportunity to have you all here today and thank you for share your story. let me ask you, and i think, ms. butler, you gave some suggestions if i remember the lineup in my writing here. you had suggested aed machines

should be more visible or available, i think -- i'm not sure if that's the right word, but tell me what you mean by that. >> we've been told that carnival does have defibrillators, aeds, but they keep them locked up because they're afraid that the passengers may steal them. >> okay. >> so -- >> and your comment about cpr training to make sure that employees or all employees or employees related to security, or help me understand what you were thinking there too. >> at the very least, security when people are coming back onboard from excursions. >> uh-huh. there is part of the proposal that chairman has is to make sure there's information available to potential passengers or customers. let me ask you a question. when you were researching your desire, was this your first cruise or second? >> we'd been doing this for years. >> okay.

>> will couple times. >> so you're a cruiser. >> used to be. >> in alaska, we have a lot of cruise ships, so i understand. .. are you looking for not only what you location is, what your interested in, but decided i want to know how save this cruise is? does that come across? is that one of the thoughts that

you have? >> you assume that if you were leaving out of a u.s. port, that you have you as health care as part of safety, purity and. it -- safety, period. it was just an assumption. >> i appreciate the chairman's piece of legislation but and it talks about putting information on the department of transportation website. might guess is that is not a place you would go to if you're going to look up a cruise and think about the safety of a cruise. i mean, d.c. where i'm going, in other words? if you're going on a cruise site and think i want to go on a cruise to the meta- train and i want to know how save the cruise is, that is your question. is your first instinct to go to beauty's website? >> no. >> what would that be? >> i think all of us would go to travelocity, expedia, chris.com come something like that.

but i think the assumption is they're just like with air travel that i thought regulations were in place. a corporation as largest carnival, with a reputation, i would just assume they would have great safety measures in place on ships of that size. i was naïve. >> i'm just trying to figure out, what i'm worried about and i told the chairman does, adding another layer of information and the customer has no idea whether information is. >> maybe they could put something on expedia senko to this site. >> i just can't figure out what's better -- go ahead, i'm sorry. >> definitely every cruise line needs to haven't updated recording on the website. in regards to the transportation, to me that would follow along with airline or train or if i was a consumer looking for something that involves all different types of transportation and incidents that occurred. but the regular consumer may go

to that royal caribbean, carnival website or even a travel, but you should be able to know what type of crimes when you're planning a family vacation. the television commercials tv this false sense of let your kids go and have fun and do which want to do while you're on the cruise. and i feel that the different crimes and things that happen need to be reported. i feel all of the need to be reported, not just if there opened and difficult. i believe they need to all be -- >> you mentioned the case for all types of transportation? >> i don't know. after what i've learned from what i did know because i had the false sense was left out of los angeles, i thought of taking all my rights with me and didn't know that it was flown under liberian flag and that they were the ones that the law was under. >> very good. thank you very much.

>> thank you, senator begich. senator blumenthal. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you for championing this bill which i am very, very proud to cosponsor. thank you for having this hearing which gives us an opportunity to really, not only express our support and sympathy, but also to make you a part of the crusade for this legislation which will really in a sense make something good come of your horrific experiences. and i have a family who is a constituent family in greenwich who suffered are tragically, a loss that in some ways is reminiscent of yours, and loss that still is with them. george smith the iv vanished, literally disappeared sometime overnight going into july for of nine years ago.

he remains missing since the 2005. there was blood on the ship when it went into a harbor. the crime scene was never secured, let alone adequately investigated. his death remains a mystery today. much to the understandable consternation of his family. is deaf -- his death is with us still in connecticut. it is a grievous reminder that the rights of people who suffer as victims of crime while at sea are completely inadequate protected, as ms. dishman, you have reminded us so dramatically and graphically. that's the reason that these kinds of limitations on liability make a mockery of the implicit promises that are made

to passengers on cruise ships, that they will be kept safe. that's the minimal obligation of every cruise ship as to its passengers, you can say. can't guarantee they will be happy, but they will always be celebratory, that the weather will always be good, but to keep them safe is a minimal obligation to each one of the instances and examples, the cruise ship failed in that basic obligation. and passengers were left without remedy. and without hope of real recovery. and in your instance, ms. butler, what happened to your mother may well have been avoidable. and unnecessary in its ultimate consequence. and yet my special sympathy in that regard. so we are really trying to

impose minimal protection on cruise ships. and that's the purpose of the cruise ship passenger protection act. it imposes standards of decency, standards of minimal, basic decency in what they're doing on the cruise ship lines. i'd like to ask you, ms. butler, whether you have taken any legal action. i note in your testimony that you consult with an attorney and he advised you as to where you had to file suit and some of the basics of the law in this area. and to wonder whether you taken any -- >> yes, we have. a couple of our septic uppercase. >> has indicated there are obstacles because of the way the

law is set? >> death on the high seas, it's a literally, it's david versus goliath and we are david. >> passengers like yourself are not only on an island, as the chairman indicated, passengers are not only on an island in the high seas, but it's a lawless island. >> exactly. >> and, ms. dishman, if i may ask you, have you taken any legal action? >> yes, i did. >> and has your lawyer advised you as to obstacles that are in your way because of the inadequacy of the lost because yes. and i experienced several different challenges and things that occurred in regards to my case. >> ms. ware and mr. gerson, let me ask you the same question. i know you are an attorney, so let me ask you what you taken legal action on behalf of your

client. >> indeed i did. and my clients case was settled for a handsome sum i must say, just recently. and i would comment on ms. butler's situation that i litigated a very similar case for seven years involving the anoxic brain injury were 20 such old third year medical resident from ohio who collapsed on a treadmill on board the ship in the presence of the fitness center director who took no steps at all to resuscitate her, and there was a factual dispute over the length of time she was down without any defibrillation. and there are international treaties that require crewmembers to be trained in cpr, and the position that the cruise lines take is that the

training is only advisory. they are not required to use it, and its discretion as to whether or not they want to use it. and federal maritime law is that they are not legally responsible if they don't use it, and they didn't use it in this case. and this young woman to a brilliant career ahead of her essentially lives the life of a vegetable today with no recovery. >> thank you. >> yes, i have taken legal action, and i did not know that by signing the ticket i was giving up all my rights according to carnival for compensation. >> mr. chairman, again my thanks are having this hearing but i'm going to ask that a letter from a connecticut colleague, congressman jim himes be entered into the record in support of this legislation, and that concludes my question.

i'm out of time, but i would want to thank you again for being here today. thank you. >> thank you, senator blumenthal. that are a lot of questions, a lot of questions. you know, the thing that amazes me is you have a very profitable industry. they make a lot of money. they are very popular. i think their popularity will continue to increase. many people will have a pleasant experience. they pay virtually no taxes in the united states, even though they are based in miami and a couple of other places. everybody thinks they're getting on an american ship, but they're

getting on a panamanian, you know, it's always registered in some of the country where there are no taxes and there is no sense of accountability or responsibility. and i say to myself, why is it that they are so resistant to making some basic changes on things which are so obviously going to come back to haunt them? we understand that 90% plus or whatever of, whether it's a 3000 person boat or a 6000, i think they're building them six, 7000 passengers, why -- if you're making the money, you don't have to pay taxes come you don't pay the coast guard for when they come to bail you out and drag you are when the fbi is involved, you don't pay them. they have a free ride. they make a lot of money. they have a very good future. so why not as a matter of

business sense, forget a very for a moment but just as in a business sense, wouldn't they take steps to clear up some of these problems we've been talking about? i mean, i remember when my wife and i -- i had never done cpr, and our children were in high school. we went and took a lesson in cpr, which i got through, and i think probably three days later i couldn't have repeated what i did because there wasn't a focus. there wasn't the same focus because it was all, something that might or might not happen. why don't make these, volatility make these, why don't they inform you? and -- voluntarily make these complied with inform you? i come from a state with a lot of coal, and coal is a dangerous occupation. but it's one way or mind is can

be kept safe if you ventilate the minds and you pay attention. operators, for the most part don't. they just get the coal out and the miners take their losses and get black lung and die from black lung. but the companies continue to be profitable. i don't understand why the cruise industry doesn't spend the money to fix some of these problems. because it would benefit them, protected for people like me and senator blumenthal and others who are determined to make them do what they should be doing, and will do that no matter how many years it takes. that they just push us away, they don't want to talk. they don't want to discuss, just like they didn't want to react to any of your situations.

in modern society, if you are in bankruptcy, that argues for not doing anything, but if you're not in bankruptcy and you're making a lot of money and these are really good people, why wouldn't you do that? and i simply don't understand that. and that sense of frustration, the sort of corporate mentality, you are from the federal government, don't do anything about it. you are talking about regulation. well, yeah, we do regulation and we did on the airlines. when pilots were flying way over the limit of being alert and that a big airplane crash in lackawanna new york, wherever that is. a lot of people were killed on twin engine, the stock, not jet, and the pilots had gone

commuter, a long time without sleep. so we put on requirements. they have to have before they get on an airplane to fly they have to have an eight hour sleep. if they don't sleep, okay, they don't sleep but they have to have that time to be able to sleep with time on each side to prepare for that and to get up from that. that's not -- if that's government running roughshod over and industry, that's just not true. just not true. it's just common sense protection of passengers. and the airlines are the safest thing to be possibly run on. you would know that reading international news recently. stay away from certain countries and airspace is, but i don't understand why they won't do it. and so one of the reasons that we had this hearing today, as

you've been patient enough to put up with it and to answer questions and tell your stories, is to put certain colleagues on this committee in a position where they need to help. and one of our colleagues said, well, we should pass, this is a separate bill. and you shouldn't attach it to the coast guard bill. everybody knows that the coast guard bill is a bill that you've got to pass. the cruise ship's want the coast guard bill to pass, but if you separate them, the coast guard bill will pass and the cruise ship bill will get flushed down the toilet. so you don't allow that to happen. you hold them accountable. it's done in life, it's bee donn business, it's done in family

situations. you have to take responsibility. so, i mean, i've got a lot of questions here. but i don't feel the need to ask them because most of them have been in part responded to. this whole idea of a hotel versus a city, you know. it's mystifying. when we had our last hearing, the represented cleat which is their lobbying organization sat right where you're sitting, you may want to move -- [laughter] and just dismissed it all. we are doing everything we possibly can. people have the responsibility for their own safety. well, that's true, but when the

general motors is discovering that when certain things don't work in gm cars, the entire nation gets interested and their polls before congress and they've got to india paying a whole lot of money to change their ways and to learn how to run a company with the consumer in mind. i'll give you just one sort of final example. people often dismiss, people are trying to help consumers, protect consumers. this committee is to be kind of a conference committee, was more business oriented. now we have tried to make a people oriented, consumer oriented. that's what it's meant to be. and i just give you this just to contemplate because it sounds so stupid, but it affects people's lives so directly, it's so nasty. people move, and so they call a mover. and not in all cases but in some

cases above are comes and a signed contract. they load all of their belongings onto the van. the number goes five miles and goes into an alley and calls them up and says, we're going to triple your price. sorry about that, but we're going to triple your price. you have to pay is three times more money than the contract you signed. now, you can go get a lawyer if you want, but you're not going to get you furniture back because you don't know where we are. it's a horrible thing. you just don't let that stop pass by. and so we are making life more difficult for them and better for the consumers. i don't know, i mean, you all made a trip with good spirits, with good thoughts, with enthusiasm, and ran into terrible problems. there was nobody to help you.

now, if you have been going on a little robot or something, that would've been one thing but you're going on a huge corporation ship who had all the experience and the wherewithal, the money, to solve your problem if you ran into them. but they just didn't. the tent city concept that you're talking about, i become that's famous throughout the world not because it was such a vile thing to do to people. operations have to be responsible. this committee exists, as do others in other areas, to do oversight to find out if they are carrying out their businesses properly, with care. some mistakes can happen, we understand that, but when there's this attitude of just neglect, and i was asking behind and i'm not sure of the answer, but i sort of remember the last

hearing that when you signed the ticket with that invisible print, that many pages you give away your liability and all the rest of the, your ability to have recourse, but i believe, i may be wrong and if i am i forgive myself but this is what i remember. that it was in the signing of the ticket after your signature was on the ticket, it was then that you were able to not take, you know, you are able to take the sticky covering of the next page which have that liability clause which, of course, you were going to look at, and you couldn't read even if you decided you wanted to come and then you could see it, if you could see it. that's awful behavior if it was true, and i'm not saying it was true. i remember that as the case but

i may be wrong. but i don't have to be right about that, because what happened he was simply wrong in a modern society from corporations that are doing very well, are on the upswing and of every right to want to make people have a happy experience, had to make sure that they do. because everybody knows that not everything works out the way it should. there will be problems. you know, for days waiting stranded, and a mother who didn't get any attention, and a 15 year-old girl who gets raped, in your own case. it's just you don't let stuff like that pass, particularly if it happens with a certain degree of consistency. so that's why we have had this hearing. and it's all in the record.

everything you said is all in the record. and that bill, if we're going to pass the coast guard bill, which i'll tell you, those cruise lines want because they need the coast guard, and our coast guard is so broke it has ships that are very old, but they still function and they're still used by the cruise ship lines. the minority leader asking wide web to do these things? like it would do them separately? he had a very clear purpose for asking that question. because he knew if we didn't separately the coast guard team would pass and the cruise ship thing would fail. it's my job as chairman to make sure that we don't play the game that way. so i just want to come up with you totally thank you one, are talking about experiences that

are not comfortable to talk about, doing so in a very forthright way, for educating this panel and believe me, just because not all the members are here, a lot of the staff is tom and it's always the staff that really counts. [laughter] we've got good stuff, you will be a good senator. if you don't, well -- so i'm not going to carry this hearing forward, because i think the points that need to be made have been made and that's because you've made them clearly and with firmness and with