>> and let us know what you think about the programs you're watching. call us at (202) 626-3400 or e-mail us at c-span.org. join the c-span conversation, like us on facebook, follow was on twitter. >> the senate aging committee looked into phone scams targeting seniors. the focus was on scammers who call pretending to be a family member or loved one to get the victim to wire money. americans lost over $73 million to phone scams last year according to the federal trade commission. ftc and fbi officials testified along with a phone scam victim. this is just under one hour. >> good afternoon.

>> i've asked all of you to join the table instead of two panels because we have a vote that is being called at around 220. so i want to take advantage of going ahead and getting all of your testimony. this hearing is the latest in a series of investigations the committee has conducted on the devastating impact that fraud and scams have on seniors citizens. over the last two years, we've explored the rise of jamaican lottery scams, tax refund schemes and social security and medicare fraud. so today we're going to examine a, what is now making a comeback in the scam world, and it's

called the grandparent or emergency scam. it's quite despicable. it preys on a senior citizen's willingness to do anything to help a family member in trouble. for example, a scammer convinces the victim over the telephone that his or her grandchild, or another relative, is in jail, is in the hospital, or stuck in a foreign country, and needs money to get out of the predicament. since the beginning of 2012, the federal trade commission has received more than 30,000 complaints about scammers who claim to be a friend or family

member in distress, costing americans more than $42 million. just since the beginning of 2012. now, this doesn't tell the whole story, since the majority of these crimes go unreported. what we do know is that the ftc reports that imposter scams have doubled between 2009 and 2013. today, we'll hear from a distinguished panel on what authorities are doing to detect and prosecute such crimes and how seniors can protect themselves. we're also going to hear about private industry's role in combating these scams. the bottom line is that the

government alone cannot prevent these types of scams. private companies that sell prepaid debit products or offer wire services are the last line of defense for consumers before their money is sent and lost forever. fortunately, some of the larger retailers are beginning to take proactive steps to protect their customers. and in addition to issuing consumer warnings about scams, many companies are now training their employees to identify and warn potential victims. and we have some good news today from the green dot corporation. it makes a product that has been one of the cards of choice for

fraudsters in many of these schemes. we heard about first in the jamaican lottery scam. green dot has announced plans to retire the moneypak card from store shelves nationwide. they've seen how this product has been used by scammers and have decided to do the right thing, and that's to pull the. green dot, wal-mart and cvs submitted statements for today's hearing, which will be part of the record. and going forward we will have these companies come and join in this committee to hear about their experience and their progress. were going to continue to encourage other debit card companies and retailers to do the same proactive thing. so little by little we are trying to give visibility to

this fraud that's been perpetrated, particularly on our senior citizens. senator collins? >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i apologize for being a few minutes late. in like you i'm trying to balance a lot of different commitments today. i want to thank you for calling this hearing to explore once again the dangers posed by con artists looking to swindle older americans out of their life savings. this is our seventh hearing on such a scams, and i appreciate your maintaining the committee's focus on this incredibly important topic. in fact, a great deal of what we have learned about these scams is a result of reports and complaints made to our committee's fraud hotline. today's hearing explores a form

of impersonation scam that we've nicknamed the grandparent scam. basically, it works like this. a scammer calls a potential victim and claims to be someone he is not, who needs cash immediately because of an emergency. the scammer plays on the victim's emotions by claiming to be a grandchild or another loved one. he says that he needs money because he has been in an accident, his car has broken down, or he is stranded in a foreign country. i myself have received an e-mail version of this scan a summit reporting to be my nephew, and it sounded just like him, and he was overseas, supposedly had been robbed and needed money to fly back home.

perhaps i'm sympathetically, i told him to go to the american embassy for help. [laughter] i then started thinking about it and called his father to see what was going on, and found out that he was not, in fact, overseas. in many cases the scammer asks the victim to send money in the fastest way possible, which involves going to a local retailer, purchasing a prepaid debit card and giving the scam of the code on the back to allow him to transfer its value. wants that money is transferred, it is very difficult if not impossible to trace. one maine grandparent was called by a scammer impersonating his grandson. this so-called grandson told my constituent that he had gotten into a car accident in nicaragua, and needed $1,800 to pay back the rental car company, or he wouldn't be allowed to leave the country.

after my constituent withdrew money from his savings and wired it to his so-called grandson, he got another call. this time, the scammer said the government was pursuing criminal charges against him because someone had been injured in the accident, and he needed another $4,000 to hire a lawyer right away. since my constituent thought his grandson was traveling abroad for a wedding, he went to his bank again and withdrew $4,000 more from his savings. when the scammer called back asking for even more money, my constituent became suspicious and thought to ask him some simple questions he wished he had asked from the start, such as where were you born and who is your mother? it was only when the scammer couldn't answer these questions that this loving and trusting

grandfather realized he had been duped. fortunately, he was able to limit his losses since he hadn't yet released the code to transfer the money to nicaragua. another constituent, mrs. sandra jaeger, got a call last fall from someone who claimed to be her son. he told her he had been in a car accident, that it was his fault, and that he didn't have insurance. he asked for $1500 to pay off the other partner, and mrs. jaegar did so, using western union to wire the money. when she realized she had been scammed, she contacted everyone she could think of to report her case, local and state law enforcement, the fbi, but she was told there was nothing they could do for her. as we have learned, these scammers are not only unscrupulous and aggressive, often calling potential victims

dozens of times, but they are also technologically savvy. they know how to route their calls using voice over internet protocol, which is very hard to trace. and they know how to spoof caller id to make it appear they are calling from a trusted source. another version of an impersonation scam might be called the tax man scam. in this version, con artists use a spoofed caller id that resembles a legitimate washington, d.c., phone number to contact taxpayers, claiming to be from the criminal investigative division of the irs. the scammer identifies himself as the investigation chief and tells the taxpayer that he or she owes more than $5,000 in back taxes. well, to make a long story

short, my staff actually spoke to a tax man scam artist as part of the committee's investigati investigation. we suspect that the scammer who called himself steve parker was located outside the united states. but this scam is so elaborate that the scammer was able to claim he was calling from a federal investigator department at the irs, was able to give the correct address for irs headquarters here in washington, and actually included a room number. but not surprisingly, that room number does not exist within the irs building. mr. chairman, these scammers are a plague to all americans, but especially to our seniors. i thank you for continuing to shine a light on their appalling practices, and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses. >> and you notice a pattern here

of all of these hearings that we've been having on scams that are perpetrated against senior citizens. >> absolutely. >> and this is just another version and it's a particularly disrespectful one. first, we have a victim of the grandparent scam, and we aren't using his full name because he doesn't want the scammers to try to reconnect him. and we will call him mr. w. he is a company today by one of his grandsons -- accompanied today. next, kevin rupy, vice president of policy and law at the u.s. telecom association. and then lois greisman,

associate director of division of marketing practices in bureau of consumer protection's. ms. grisman -- ms. greisman. then, joseph campbell, the assistant director of the fbi's criminal investigative division. mr. campbell, your written statement will should be very specific on the grandparent scheme and other and posture phone scams. the fbi's website has more information on these types of scams compared to the statement that you've submitted, so i would like in the questioning for you to provide additional details. now, because of the fact that we've got a vote coming up, and it set to 10, i'm going to hold you to five minutes so that we

can get through everybody and get on into questions. all right. mr. w., you are up. and if you turn on your microphone. >> thank you, chairman nelson and ranking member collins, for the opportunity to tell my story before the senate special committee on aging. i am an 81 year-old grandparent from cincinnati, ohio. last december, i answered a phone call that set my life into a tailspin and con to be out of $7000. in what i now know was a phone scam. the collar at the young voice and said, grandpa, this is your favorite grandson, to which i replied, i have six grandsons and they are all my favorite year his reply was, well, this is your oldest grandson, to which i replied, how are you recommend exactly his reply but if something like, i'm in jail and i need your help to get me

out of jail, and mom is to i don't want mom and dad to know about this. talk to this police officer. i can't remember the officer's name, but he said he stopped a car for speeding to the car contained for young men who were on their way to a football game. in a search of the vehicle, narcotics were found. all four of the young men were arrested on narcotics charges. all for denied knowledge of who the owner of the narcotics was, but ty ha have been the most cooperative and only needed was $3000 cash to get out of jail. i told the police officer that i needed to go -- i was told by the police officer that i needed to go to wal-mart or cvs download a total of $3000 into greendot-moneypak cards in $1000 the nomination. and i need cash to purchase the

cards. i cashed a check for $3000 at my bank, and would to wal-mart and bought three moneypak card, each loaded with $1000. i returned home and called the police officer at the number with a 438 area code. the area code for montréal, canada. and gave him a scratch off numbers on the moneypak card. later, the police officer called again and said they needed additional $4000. however, my checking account would not cover that out. my wife went to the bank and withdrew $4000 from her savings account and went to wal-mart and loaded for moneypak card with $1000 each. i told the officer a scratch off numbers. subs we received another call from him saying they need another $2500. at this point my wife suggested

we call ty's twin brother to see if he had seen him today, that they. dillon said he saw him before he went to work that morning. i called ty's cell phone and he answered. he was at work. it became obvious that grandpa and grandma were victims of a scam. looking at the moneypak cards, there's a warning that says in small print, and i repeat, in small print. it says if anyone else ask you for your moneypak number, your information from your receipt, it's a scam and green dot is not responsible to pay you back. i believe putting of that warning in such small print is unconscionable, and green dot for making the moneypak cards have some liability in as much as they profited from these transactions but i also believe that wal-mart has some responsibility in that it

facilitated and profited from the scam with their sale of the moneypak cards. i reported the scam to the cincinnati police who didn't seem interested but i also contacted the federal bureau of investigation who referred me to the federal trade commission. but i'm not sure what they've been able to do about it. i have some suggestions about what prepaid debit card companies could do to protect consumers, which i hope to get into later on. thank you for listening to me, and giving me this opportunity to testify. i'm happy to answer questions. >> thank you, mr. w. you are very courageous to come and share this with us. mr. rupy. >> chairman nelson, ranking member collins, members of the committee. thank you for giving me the opportunity to appear before you today. my name is kevin rupy, and i serve as vice president of law

and policy at the u.s. telecom. u.s. telecom and our member companies share the committee's concern about the problems associated with phone-based imposter scams targeted at seniors. calls using voice over internet protocol, or the oip technology, when combined with caller id spoofing can be used by scammers to mask their identity and location, giving the target a false sense of confidence about who is calling. three important developments have occurred in the last year that could help address this issue. first, our member companies continue to work with the government and industry stakeholders to develop a more secure form of caller id authentication in order to more effectively address caller id spoofing. last summer the internet engineering task force created a

formal working group focus on creating a secure caller id for voip calls. a secure telephone identity revisited group, or stick on his been working since then to achieve this goal. despite technological challenges, stakeholders within the transit believe a cryptographic approach for voip can provide a much stronger and less spoof global assurance of identity and the legacy telephone network provides today. members of the ietf include represents from industry including many u.s. telecom members, and government including the ftc's chief technologist. in may, the group develop high level requirements for solutions and less than two weeks ago at least a document outlining a mechanism for secured identifying originators of voip

telephone calls. any solutions developed by this group will become most effective upon a full transition to our ip-based communications that were, a process that is well under way. second, u.s. telecom member companies and independent application developers offer servicers today that can help older americans reduce unknown and potentially fraudulent calls. for example, consumer subs -- consumers subscribing to verizon's voiceover service can prevent some or all incoming calls from bringing a customer's phone. sending them instead to voicemail. it can be activated or lepton and definitely and also let consumers established and accepted callers list for up to

10 numbers that will bypass the safeguards and allow the call to ring through. similar offerings are available from centurylink, at&t and others. in addition, third party services such as the ftc's robocall challenge winner nomar robel also be available to consumers. finally, our industry has wrapped up a concerted broad-based public private effort focuses -- focus exclusively on telepathy that is within existing framework of the messaging malware and mobile and type of bruce working group. purchase but in the working group include the fcc, the ftc, the fbi, the department of homeland security, a broad range of industry members. the abuse groups sole focus is

addressing abuse occurring over telephone networks. it was great to help protect services from criminal activity and abuse by developing best practices, technology and methods for mitigating phone-based attacks and scams. in closing let me think again the committee for holding this timely hearing. we share the committee's concerns. we look forward to our continued work together to address this constantly evolving challenge. >> double your efforts, mr. rupy. ms. greisman. >> good afternoon, chairman nelson, ranking member collins, and members of the committee. i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you on behalf of the federal trade commission to discuss the commission's role in combating telemarketing fraud. as we've heard, the injuries inflicted by telemarketing fraud is well-known. horror stories abound, the harm is not just economic but emotional as well.

to tackle phone fraud the ftc is a three-pronged strategy. law enforcement with closed quote nation with our federal and international counterparts, education and outreach, and an initiative to deter -- spur technological innovation to help consumers avoid unwanted calls and also help law-enforcement track down the fraudsters. first, law enforcement with a focus on imposter scams. each of us in own minds seeks out of allies want trusted sources. that's the very thing scammers you've been to is where they to be from the government, a family member or hide behind a recognizable corporate name. in her sitting someone trusted is more than just a door opener but it's an invitation to come in and sit down. and when a successful -- when it's successful people lose enormous amount of money as the testament indicates during just the past two and half years, consumers report having lost more than $200 million to

imposter scams. not surprisingly in more than 90% of the cases report of the complaints reported to the commission, consumers indicate that initial contact was by phone. halting such impersonators is central to the commission's broad telemarketing enforcement program. one case we filed early this year typifies the work. defendants allegedly called people, many of them were elderly, if also stated that a member of the family or a friend had bought for them and medical device alert, and then they lied about whether they would have to pay for it. given the nature of such conduct and the fact we see some telemarketers engage in imposter scams, they may be out of canada and also at jamaica. our criminal behavior -- is were close with criminal authorities to prosecute perpetrators of phone scams through what's known as project called. second, consumer education is a

complement to law enforcement at the ftc has a wide range of materials director relating to imposter fraud and all telemarketing scams. every year we reach out to more than tens of names of people with those materials. -- tens of millions. i want to pass on, i know you've seen it before, our newest project and we just launched this innovative initiative aimed specifically at older active adults including veterans. based on research with the target audience, it gives older consumers critical information about scams so they can pass it on to those who need. and, of course, that information includes imposter scams and the all too common you just one scam. we also went in a new direction in early 2012 when we parted with the aarp foundation to afford one to one. counseling to consumers over age 60 who complained about being

the victim of certain types of frauds concluding imposter scams. the foundations volunteers have provided advice and counsel towards -- to more than 1000 people. using keenly focus innovation to tackle illegal calls with the convergence between our phone system and the internet as well as other technological developments, making fraudulent calls is cheaper than ever and because it's so easy for the scammers to hide, the enforcement challenges are huge. in late 2012 we met those challenges with her own robocall challenge which incentivize creating innovative call blogging platforms. i'm glad to say that one of the winners, nomorobo, already launched a new product for consumers that is successfully blocking unwanted calls. mr. ricci referred to moment ago. our second robel challenge was taking place next month at the defcon conference in vegas, conference of information security experts where our contest will focus on phone

honeypots, how to create them and how to use them, to fight illegal calls. at the same time the ftc has spearheaded a new working group of the london action plan international do not call for him to look specifically at caller id spoofing issues from an international perspective. in sum, the commission's commitment to tackling phone fraud for enforcement action, education outreach and innovation is strong. as i've outlined the commission also will continue to identify and pursue innovative ways to protect consumers and engaged federal international and private industry members to do this and. thank you for the opportunity. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. mr. campbell, tell us that we put some of these people in jail. >> yes, sir. chairman nelson, ranking member collins, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the federal bureau of

investigation's efforts to combat fraud against our nation's seniors. i'm pleased to appear before the committee today to address this important issue. at the beginning of 2011 the first of our nation's baby boomers reached the age of 65. since then thousands a day are also reaching that milestone. they have many reasons to celebrate. senior citizens are most likely to have a nest egg to own their own home and to have excellent credit. unfortunately, these are also many of the same qualities which make them so attractive to con artists. as you may already be aware, the fbi participate in a number of working groups and task forces dedicated to combating significant frauds to include phone scams against our nation's citizens. for mortgage and health care fraud task forces to end agency groups such as the elder justice interagency working group, many of those reserves are focused on

preventing, detecting and combating those frauds which harm senior citizens to unfortunately though, fraud or limited only to the imagination of those who commit such egregious crimes. internet and telephone fraud is defined as any illegal activity involving phone calls, websites, chat rooms and/or e-mail. this fraud involves false mutation or fraudulent representations to consumers. these crimes may include but are surely not limited to advance fee scams, lottery scams and identity theft. in one particular scam, the grandparent scam, scammers use scenarios that include claims of the votes of being arrested or in a car accident in another country. these rosters -- fraudsters make a desperate plea for money to victims. it is not unusual for scammers to big victims not to tell other family members about the

situation. this is just one example. unfortunately, the variety of schemes is again limited only by the imagination of the con artist who offer them. in our continued effort to combat the members of fraudsters who do our citizens harm, the fbi and the national white collar crime center established the internet crime complaint center, ic-3. the ic-3 receipts, develops and refers criminal complaints regard the rapidly expanding arena of cybercrime. the ic-3 gives the victims of cybercrime a convenient and easy-to-use reporting mechanism that alerts authorities of suspected criminal or civil violations. law enforcement and greater agencies at the federal, state, local and international levels, the ic-3 provides a central referral mechanism for complaints. the law enforcement and regulatory agencies at the federal, state, local and

international level, the ic-3 provides a central referral mechanism for complaints involving internet-related crimes. as complaint are reported online, the ic-3 electronically compiles the data. trained analyst review and research each complaint, disseminating information to the appropriate federal, state, local or international law enforcement, or reckless or agencies for criminal, civil or administrative action as appropriate. i can assure you it will also remain a priority objective of the ic-3 to establish effective alliances with industry. such alliances enable the ic-3 to leverage both intelligence and subject matter resources pivotal in identifying and attracting an aggressive proactive approach to combating the crime. in conclusion, as you have heard, fraud targeting our senior citizens exists in many

forms. is created in its approach, and can often lead our most vulnerable citizens with little to no savings to enjoy a time in life the front. the fbi come in partnership with our federal, state and local partners is committed to identifying this thread where it exists and taking aggressive action in response. chairman nelson and ranking member collins, i would like to thank you again for this opportunity to discuss the fbi's efforts to combat fraud against our nation's senior citizens. i am not happy to answer any questions that you may have. >> before i turn to senator collins, mr. campbell, the federal trade commission has a simple way to file complaints. it's called the consumer sentinel network, it seems to be a much more expansive database. do you all use that? >> yes, that is correct better to agencies to coordinate on

fraud information. and the ic-3 data that we receive from potential victims is also fed into the consumer sentinel database so that we could all benefit from that information, analyzed, disseminate it as appropriate and develop the right strategies to target that criminal activity. >> have you put someone in jail for this kind of fraud? >> yes, we have. yes, yes, we have. for the grandparent scam we had a case that, in fact, we have conducted with project called as referred to. that individual has been arrested. he pled guilty to one count of wire fraud and that was an interagency investigation. and that indictment took place in 2012. >> i would suggest that you publicize that so that -- by the way, do you find that these are criminal enterprises that do

other kind of criminal things as well as this? >> yes, but that's a very important point. because yes, there are individuals and maybe smaller groups out there perpetrating these scams. but in some cases they can be tied to organized crime or transnational organized crime, enterprises, or they also may be more expensive fraud rings engage in a variety of fraud relative to this, that's correct. >> all right. we're going to try to get everybody's questions in before you have to go to this vote. senator collins. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. campbell, i do appreciate the work that you're doing, but into we put in jail a lot of people who are committing these scams, we are not going to see real progress. the ftc has told us that there

were 127,000 posture scans last year alone. so how many of these cases were prosecuted? in response to the chairman, you mentioned just one case in 2012. how many? >> right. we don't track specific numbers regarding, say, a grandparent scam or particular individuals who have been targeted. but we have investigated a wide variety of individuals in regard to these types of fraud which have taken place. we have had a number of convictions related to those, and we are pursuing them. it certainly is a priority for us. as i noted in regard to the establishment of ic-3, to target this threat and to dedicate the resources that we can whether interagency partners against this threat. >> well, what worries me is what

i'm hearing sounds very bureaucratic but it sounds like the are a lot of task force going on and there's a lot of discussion back and forth, but 127,000 posture scans last year alone, 9 million scans, various kinds reported to the ftc. 9 million cases like mr. w. where he, where trusting seniors lost thousands of dollars. and what i'm hearing from law enforcement is they are too small individually for us to bother with them. well, you can be sure that the person who ripped off mr. w. went on to rip off other people. that's just one case. he didn't rip off mr. w. and say, boy, i'm done now. i'm going to pack it up. and, in fact, we know from

previous hearings that there are boiler room operations that do this with people having scripts. and i just think, as with the jamaican lottery scam where we got jamaica to change its laws and we started seeing a more aggressive prosecution in this country, that until that happens we are going to continue to see our seniors and others ripped off. so i'd like some statistics from you that show me that you're making this a priority, and that you consider these scams to be important, even if they are reported one by one a few thousand dollars or $2000 here, $2000 of there. in the aggregate, it's a lot of money.

and even, even for the individual where it may be what law enforcement considers to be a small amount of money, it can be devastating to their life savings. >> i certainly agree with you him and you used a key word there, aggregate. it's important that we do receive this information and the complaints. because in some cases we define them tied together, and that enables us been to effectively devote resources against that and work with the prosecutors at the state and local level as well. so we agreed that this is a tragic circumstance, and all available resources should be dedicated to it and we're certainly committed to that. the more intelligence that we can receive, we encourage the public to report. the more it can help us be effective in regard to this targeting. >> well, the public is according that you've got 9 million scans

reported to the ftc, including 127,000 posture scans just last year. my time is expired. we've got others to question, but ms. greisman, for the record i'd like an answer from you on how often and how well law enforcement uses that wealth of data that you have collected at the ftc. if i could have it for the record. >> okay, we are honored to senator murphy, join us. let me call on our committee member, senator casey. >> mr. chairman, thanks very much. i know have a limited time. i'll be brief. i want to get a sense of what works, because often around here as you may have detected from reading the newspaper, we don't pass a lot of substantial bills on a regular basis. so we often have to think of other ways to have an impact.

because legislation takes a long time and there are other problems of getting it passed. so we have to try to use our staff, our resources, and a lot of them in state to make, to have an impact on a problem like this. in our office with a website. i know other offices have similar strategies, and it's a website to provide older adults and family members with information and tips about scams or fraud of various kinds. i'm just going to ask roger, roger w., just from your own, kind of your own perspective and your own experience, what do you think works in terms, or i should say what kind of information would you hope would be available if you are on the website of an elected member of congress or any other information that families are not getting what they hope they would get? does that make --

>> i'm not sure. i already knew about this grandparent scam. then i became a victim of it. i read about it and i heard about it, but the way it was set up. when i was contacted i was in kind of, it's a from a number of us been hospitalized. i thought his wife was calling when i received this call. normally i look at the caller id, and it was a 438 number i would just disregarded. but because i'm slow to get around, i was in the living room where we don't have a telephone and i got, by the time i got it was already the third ring, and the fourth when it stops working. so answered the phone without looking at the caller id. looking at the caller id is clearly one way of come if you look at the caller id and you see is not a number with which you're familiar are some of the things that this gentleman talked about, there's some possibilities.

there's other things that are involved in this. be on the that there's moneypak cards but i'm glad to hear green dot is getting out of that business, but i'm sure there will be another, there's a market for some sure somebody will fill that market. i don't have a good answer for that, but i'm not sure, no disrespect to your website, but i don't think many senior citizens look at their senators website with any frequency spent i guess we've got to promote it. know but, that's hopeful that if you think there's other ways we can put in place preventative strategies that would be helpful. and, of course, you can, over time, add your answer and send us written advice as well, so we appreciate that. i know we're limited on time, but ms. greisman, i wanted to add, we know that they do not already she has been --

do-not-call registry has been effective in a lot of ways. apparently in addition to what benefit we get from the do-not-call registry we know that consumers will often post comments that are associated with these kinds of fraudulent calls. ill post them on different message boards online and i'm just wondering if the ftc would consider, has considered creating some kind of a message board system or clearinghouse that kind of aggregates information about these kinds of fraudulent calls. anything -- maybe you spoke to this, but anything -- >> it's a fair question. we are constantly evaluating, reevaluate what to do with our complaint data and how best to utilize the. it's widely available to law enforcement combat law enforcement does use it

extensively. we consider the consumer complaint we receive and we receive a great many relating to do not call in any given month we make it 270, 280,000 complaints relating to do not call or robocall's. we consider them nonpublic so we can't just put them out on the public record but that is a fair question that we will continue to evaluate. >> they get very. thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator murphy. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. thank you for generosity and allowing me to sit as part of this panel today. with a string of these grandparent scam''s in connecticut on our shoreline which is the reason i have some interest in this issue over the past several months. and i just want to ask one simple question knowing we are short on time and it is probably for mr. campbell and his greisman. that's about this issue that you get information from local enforcement. there's been some information compiled by this committee that suggests to local law enforcement often doesn't know

where to report these scams when they get word of it and that are often are not reporting into the database, 9 million is a stunning number but imagine what the outcome of is if local law enforcement were sending all the information. given the fact you are only prosecuting where you see volume, given your limited resources, it seems like an imperative to make sure that local law enforcement is communicating up a change for these databases and the fbi, to the ftc when they get information about these scams. so what's the status and both of your opinion as to the flow of information from local law enforcement to the databases and the federal law enforcement, and what can we do to make it better? >> sure. well, this is an area that or years we worked at many levels to have that dialogue with law enforcement with in regard to these scams. we work with associations like the icb and so forth in regard

to this issue. we also have what is now called operation wellspring which is coordinate out of the ic-3 and that involves passing these violations to our field offices across the country. the data is analyzed to determine if it can be investigated and prosecuted federally. and if not then that information is passed to our state and local officers for them to review and determine what action they can take. and that has increased that information sharing both ways. so we are working to promote the initiative more, to encourage that type of dialogue as well to drive together against this threat. >> yes, thank you. we worked extensively with local police departments insurance offices to encourage them both to contribute data and also to use the sentinel system. and we engage in hands-on training for them as well so

that they can access it in a smart and intelligently. >> i think we can do better. i appreciate his efforts. mr. whitby, do you think industry can be involved in this as well if it's a matter of this in the information. it's in your interest to make sure all this information from local laws for tickets to the place in which a commit actionable and aggregated. so this seems to be a perfect example of a place where limited public resources can be paired with potentially more bountiful private reserves to make sure local law enforcement reports all of the relevant information. thank you very much, mr. chairman, for allowing me time. >> mr. rupy, what can a telephone company do to help a senior citizen when they call them and say they have been hammered? >> that is an excellent question, chairman, and that's something that the phone companies will work with the consumer base on the tools that they have. and also based on the specific

situation at hand. so as an example, where a consumer reaches out to the phone company, complaining about perhaps calls that they are receiving, the phone company can work with the consumer to identify tools that may be available to tha the consumer so that they can either -- >> such as? you could have the technology that if they spoofed number comes up, but somehow it alerts the customer? >> that is, that is actually the ultimate goal of the s.t.i.e.r. that i was talking about in my oral and written test money, mr. chairman, and essentially -- written testimony. the endgame of that technology is that you have an authentication between the person being called and the

calling party so that -- >> is that technology available to the? >> is not yet available today, mr. chairman, we do have industry and government involvement on developing those standards. because we have to develop a standard in order to implement that technology into the network. >> well, if you could have heard all of the hearings that we have had come and just to complicate matters, a lot of them don't originate in this country. they are from a foreign country, and that means you've got to work with another government in order to get them to cooperate to go after the guys. so that makes it doubly difficult and longer and longer and, therefore, the development of technology that will help somewhat identified a number of them who gets spoofed, that would be extremely helpful in the protection of senior

citizens, indeed, protection of customers. because of the vote that is now occurring, i want to say that i want to bring to the table retailers who offer the services to send money, such as western union, moneygram, and the various court. will have a future hearing on the -- various cards. they have been reluctant to come. i want to tell them that obviously we will treat them very fairly, but they are being used to perpetrate fraud on our people. and we don't like this. and the american people don't like it. so we want them to calm and help work with us and with law enforcement and the agencies. the regulatory agencies. i'm encouraged by the action of some retailers and debit card

companies that they have taken, but several of them were reluctant to come. well, if we have to we will compel them to come because we're going to get at the bottom of this. thank you all. the meeting is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] >> that wraps up our presentation of this phone scam hearing. one of several consumer issue hearings we are showing this week. if you missed any of this event will show it again twice today at 1:20 p.m. and 605 the nation. jamar the folks will be on the nation's school lunch programs. thursday will look into the safety of the trucking industry and will wrap things up friday with a hearing on phone bill granting with when third parties

make unauthorized charges to your phone bill. >> here's what's ahead today on c-span2. next from our q&a series a conversation with author, dr. alfredo quinones-hinojosa, talked about coming to the united states. been a congressional hearing looks into over criminalization. and later we'll show you today's washington to a program in its entirety. >> c-span2 providing live coverage of the u.s. senate floor proceedings, and key public policy events. and at the weekend booktv, now for 15 years the only television network devoted to nonfiction books and authors. c-span to create a by the cable tv industry and brought to you as a public service by local cable satellite provider. watches and if you don't like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> all this week we're showing

you author interviews from our latest books, sunday at eight. in a recompile numerous conversations from our book notes and q&a programs. next, dr. alfredo quinones-hinojosa talks about his book, "becoming dr. q" which follows his journey to the united states. this is from our q&a program. it's one hour. >> doctor alfredo -- dr. alfredo quinones-hinojosa, you write in your book that you were an illegal, homeless immigrant farmworkers. it illegal, homeless immigrant farmworkers, and now you're a brain surgeon. how long ago were you a farmworkers to welcome thank you. i think it is pretty comprehensive description. i came to the united states in 1987 and i talked about that in the recent book that we

published. it was just a little over 20 years ago. i just came into this country with literally 63, $64 in my pocket. i spent $60 landed in lax with about $3 left and come away all the way up in northern california where i began to work with the very same hands that now get to touch the human brain. at one of the most prestigious institutions in the world which is johns hopkins. >> do you remember the first time you saw the brain? >> can i remember? imagine, i mean, i was just a kid. i started met a school at harvard when i was 26, and sometimes people ask me, did you know you're going to be a doctor. i said, no. did you know you're going to be a brain surgeon? i said no. how did i end up this journey

that i have had for the past two decades. sometimes things happen for a reason. and i used to think that chance and good luck come to anyone who wants it. but i began to realize that it's not just that. you have to look forward. one day i was walking in always of harvard medical school, and a very, very distinguished brain surgeon looked at me on a friday night around 11 p.m., and azteca where are you going? i said i'm going to the library to study. he said have you ever done brain surgery? he said have you ever seen brain surgery? i said no. he said would you like to see brain surgery? i said i would love it. he says, let's go right now. the next thing i know i walk into this operating room and imagine, the magic that i felt when i saw that beautiful brain in a patient that was aw