so as much as they have these violent incidents against each other when he was trying to run the tribe, in later years they both seemed to respect each other at least to a certain degree and that wounded knee and right after that, he said you would understand and he said, for his part, that i now understand that i was young and i was aggressive in those days and i was just going to do what i thought was right. but looking back on it i see why they acted as they did and i understand his position and i would have fought just as hard had i been in his shoes. so in later years they came to respect each other but they did come to respect each other. i would like readers to just understand that there are

characters that help set the tone for what is happening in the american west during that period of 1870 through 1890. the last bit of the real frontier trying hard to do a job, there are the stories that haven't been told, they have not been over told, in my opinion. and they are a has interesting and rich exciting as anything you would read about some of the more iconic figures of the west. and yet the iconic figures are everywhere. and so bill cody is part of that story as well and certainly all the leaders of the day were part of this too. and those folks were all there

and they were just going about their daily lives and some things that we consider heroic trying to do the best job that they can do given the circumstances that they were in. >> while visiting casper, wyoming, we hear from ben kern about his modern-day journey on the oregon trail on his book "wagon wheels: a contemporary journey on the oregon trail" ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we are sitting here in front of your covered wagon. how many miles this wagon have

on a? >> and has about 20,000 miles on it. it's among the oregon trail, the california trail, the cherokee trail, cheyenne to deadwood and i got this wagon in kansas when i was doing the oregon trail and i had it restored. it's an original one. >> how did you learn about wagons? >> my dad was a wagon smith who built wagons and i just kind of grew up with that knowledge of all the equipment that he had and what it takes to have a wagon. i lived in eastern oregon for a lot of years and we've done a wagon train before. and we made three trips and that

was back in the 60s when we had done that. so we had been part of a wagon train ever sent then. >> for the anniversary of the oregon trail, you re-created that. can you tell me about that trip? >> well, you know, that was a centennial deal of the oregon trail and there were six states, oregon and idaho, wyoming, and nebraska and missouri all we're going to go in and re-create the oregon trail and idaho and oregon decided that they didn't want to do it. and so we got together and decided that somebody if they wanted to do this, that somebody needed to do this. so my people and i decided putting it together and decided

that we would do it and we did do it and we made it work. there were eight wagons that went all the way, they started and went all the way and every state, some people went for days or two days and some went for weeks. in the original wagons went all the way. and pretty much the original people started as well. we started an independent, missouri, and wound up in independence, oregon. we left the second of may and got an october 23, which was six months and almost $3000. >> over some of the problems he faced on her trip? >> the rain, mostly.

and we had two or three tornadoes that went really close to the wagon train and we had a couple of hailstorms that damaged some of the tarps on the wagons and so at the museum in independence they had a going away celebration or is and we had hoped our wagons up and we had people watching the horses when we been in and when we walked out of the museum it was pouring down rain and it rained for almost a month. and never quit. it rained everyday for almost a month. and so we kind of got a feeling for what the original wagon train people went to and i think that we have an experience.

>> did you ever want to give up and call it quits? >> yes, when we started coming kind of felt like that. but we never did. we never went to a motel, we either slept slept in the tents were slept in the wagons and after it was all over with and i came back home and i set my tent up in the backyard and i slept in a tent for about a month because i couldn't stay in the house. i just got so used to it. camping out, it gets to be a habit. >> you are a different one time. what are some of the things that you saw? >> the landmarks, i think the first real landmark is chimney rock and nebraska and that was

such a historic spot and got lots and then one place that i really relish his fort laramie. that is such a unique place and i think that they are important spots so you kind of look back and you see a lot of history there. macbook with people's reactions as they saw you crossing the country in a wagon train? >> that is something that draws attention, people going down the road see a wagon train and it really draws their attention. they either stop and visit with you or they take a visit with you and it draws a lot of attention. >> see you wrote a book about the oregon trail can you share

that with us? >> okay, this is a quote that i kind of thought was important in this is july 22 when we got up this morning it was cold and the ground was white and it was really frustrating and that was july 22. we left for pacific springs and we had lunch on the continental divide and we crossed the continental divide and we feel like we will succeed in the publishing of her journeys. i feel like we definitely will finish our trip. i just feel like we really accomplish something and the cost over the continental divide, especially after the things we havarti went through.

before we got into camp, it started raining and it was so money when we got into camp that we really had a bad storm and it rained and thundered and lightning all night long. so we didn't get out of the rain. in the south past everyone figured and at south pass you can see the oregon buttes and a lot of people when i saw this, they saw they were in oregon. >> so how do you personally feel when you finally made it?

>> it was a great feeling and since they had wanted to elevate the history of the oregon trail and we had done it and we had accomplished it, it was a great feeling that we made it work and we were doing it in an authentic way as well. and so we feel like we really accomplished it. >> why did you want to document your trip and about one? >> well, i think it was important to document because it was important to tell the story about what we had done and so it should have been documented and

we talked about it and decided that is what we would do. >> when people read your book, what is the thing that people think most about? >> i think that the distance that we went in the timeframe that it took us, i think that was important and people think well, maybe you just go out here today but when a wagon train lasts for six months and all the experience that goes along with it, it can be really important to have it documented. our younger generation is losing history i think when you do this and document it, it kind of keeps our history going. >> is there a life lesson to learn on a wagon train ena.