what exactly is going on with air emissions? the cumulative impact? is it healthy? what about this water? is and some of this waste water causing earthquakes? these are important questions. one of the big mistakes that has been made is that we were so far into the boom before we started asking questions. the good news is when you start looking at these there are answers. there are solutions, ways to do this better and right. very simple, first when i lived in san antonio there were no earthquakes. you just did not feel them. now it is a fairly regular occurrence. small ones. >> did you know that when you go and get a license to drill and inject wastewater into the land you don't have to ask or prove that you are not your fault? >> well, that would seem to be a pretty common sense thing. basically you are

lubricating fall so that they are slipping and causing earthquakes. they would have eventually, maybe in 10,000 years. there's beating that up right now. there are some really common sense things that can be done. and let me give you another example. you brought up water in south texas and west texas were the permian boom is going on. these are water-starved areas. for 5 million gallons of water, fresh water. one not use saltwater? there's a simple answer when you ask the industry. the answer is, well, we just never did. we worked out the chemistry for fresh water. well, there is no reason why you can't do it. the industry is starting to move in that direction. slowly, but they are moving. i would say, yes, there is a huge amount of wealth created, a lot of jobs, a lot of good news. not just that, but when you

talk about -- we are importing so much less well than we ever used to come lots of security benefits. at the same time let's take a little time and ask the questions. what else can be done to make sure that they're safe and that the bone did not leave a legacy that we don't want it to? >> i want to stay on these environmental issues. we live and of low regulatory state which is about what a tax -- attract business and what allows it all myself regulate. we have the texas railroad commission which most people may not realize has nothing to do with real gross. it is really the same entity that is charged with incentivizing business to operate and then to watch it and so consequently you have -- i remember elizabeth james jones and her famous

trio, baby, drill speech that was given here in san antonio which to not sound like a regulator. i wonder whether or not you can trust the industry to do the things we're talking about or whether asking all smelly for another environmental catastrophe, maybe not that deep water are rising, but left to their own devices the proper motive will always trump environmental and safety concerns. >> one of the -- you bring up the deep water horizon which was the bp rate that lost control of the well for weeks and-oil. one of the things that came out of that -- and i covered that extensively, as in federal agency that was charged with raising money for the government by leasing of some of these boxes in the gulf of mexico was also charged with regulating it. you have the cheerleader and the regulator under the same roof which is exactly what we have in texas and north dakota. the federal government in my opinion made the right

decision by splitting those out. you cannot have them under the same roof. i have not heard that in texas. i think that is difficult because -- your question implies an answer, and i would agree with that answer. it is tough to be a good, hard-nosed regulator when the institution you are also charged with promoting. >> ten years ago when everyone started talking about fracking and using horizontal drilling in context with that, what we heard about was gas. these gas fields that were found. then as things took off the price of gas plummeted. >> they found too much. there were too successful. they found some much we did not know what to do. >> and they found oil that they were not expecting to find. what about gas, that

transitional, like fossil fuel, if it can be called that. it is certainly a lot cleaner than coal, unless you've legal lot of methane into the environment. it is not really being used to wait we thought it would be. >> gas is being used the way we thought it would be. it is taking a big bite out of coal. if you go to places, there are a number of places on the east coast where there is significantly cleaner because of this. new york city is a perfect example. but we are also in the united states, if you remember the kyoto protocol is terminations were going to get together and lower carbon emissions to help fight. the united states did not. we met our keel protocol pledges because gas is so much better and immense sum much less carbon dioxide than coal. so there have clearly been day, global benefits.

i actually think that the real challenge and opportunity comes with renewals. when you start talking about adding renewals -- and i think most people would agree we would love to go to a place where we have renewals on a regular basis. well, renewals come and go. when the sun is not shining in the wind is not blowing you need something to back them up. it turns out natural gas is incredibly good at that. and so you can begin to envision a world where you have a lot of real bulls to much more that we have now, and natural gas to back it up. we are producing fairly inexpensively the kind of energy that this society expects with a lot fewer emissions. there are challenges out there. he brought up methane leakage. but that is one of the things i want to talk about. this -- the energy boom is an incredible opportunity for jobs, to transform the

country, but it is also at "modern environmental law" for us to really think where do we want to be in 20 or 30 years? what kind of economy and what type of energy do we want and use and half. because we can use it all right now, start exporting to the start running truss on natural-gas to my bill petrochemicals. we can do all these things. o we are not having is a conversation. so what do we want to do and where do we want to be? you raise something else that is interesting. i traveled around south texas and obscene how these cities have been transformed i have also been to nigeria. i firmly believe that if we're going to use the oil and gas that this country does, americans use more per capita than anywhere else in the world, we have a responsibility to do it as well as we can, to use the gas efficiently commit to

not eat -- leave behind an environmental legacy. you get to a place like west africa where we have imported trillion dollars worth of oil over the decades. the legacy that is left behind is not very good at all. corruption, environmental waste, the country is not in great shape. >> of those u.s. multinationals doing the drilling? >> u.s. and european. i think when you start talking about producing more in the u.s. it is a great opportunity. if we're going to use it, let's figure out how to do it in the most environmentally -- the least impact where possible. it is a challenge. from traveling in talking to engineers and people in the community, i think that we are up for the challenge. >> i ask you in the public's

interview that we did about something that was talked about a great deal after september 11th in the united states but particularly in texas, and that is reaching energy independence and weather are not fracking and shale drilling was going to be this sort of miracle to that that allowed us to reduce our dependence on the middle east, countries like venezuela where we do not advocate relations. has that happened? >> no, we are not energy independent. we are importing a lot less. five years ago i would say we are very much dependent. we were not independent because we had to do things around the world to make sure the flow of oil kept coming, whether it was alliances. we are now in a position where we are importing so much less that we can pick and choose. venezuela is doing something we don't like. we can buy from the saudis.

we don't need saudi and venezuela and nigeria and then go up. we are more independent up because we have options. that is a huge change from poverty and years ago. i want to talk a little bit about two of the dominant characters in your book. when i guess you would call the father of fracking. how many people know very much about george mitchell and the room? he passed away last year, but also last year he gave away more money philanthropic we that any american, except the founder of facebook. an enormously complicated guy. a very interesting character . in in the founder of chesapeake energy and that guy that owns the oklahoma city that i mentioned. he was enormously complicated. those are the kinds of larger-than-life characters that oral and gas, the

energy world seems to produce. number one, did you get to meet george mitchell and get to know him? also aubrey. tell us about those people. >> are met both of them. i met george mitchell two or three times before he died. george mitchell was one of those incredibly fascinating characters. he was born in galveston, sun of an immigrant, grew up poor. just pulled himself up. classic american story. rose up. when he passed away he was not just incredibly wealthy but have given the incredible amounts of money away. what fascinated me, two things. first of all, this was a guy who believed in science. he really was -- he was coming into his own at a time when houston was still full of wild catchers who would build wells on

hunches. this was a guy that said, i want proof before i go drilling. he really was one of the first a sort of drive the industry into modernity. and he was the guy who said, look, i know that there is gas up in this shale north of fort worth in some acreage i own. i am going to let my company drill a couple of wells a year, to a three per year, does not matter how much or if it is a failure. chile is fine. he did that for 16 years until finally he had a breakthrough. stars in 1982. straight up until 1988. just never minded if the wells were dads, which often they were. they could not figure out how to open the rock. just believe in it. he was stubborn. the other thing is, you do not think of an oil man as being someone interested in sustainability, but 1970's, after he had enriched his mind starts to wander, interests change.

he meets the midcentury futurist and becomes incredibly interested in spaceship earth and how we can survive with 5 billion people on the planet when we will have 7 billion. and this becomes his obsession. one of the largest contributors to a sciences, sustainability. but he never took that into renewable energy, just never believed in renewable energy . probably a man of his time. when he lived renewable energy just was not ready for prime time yet. i would argue that he is now he sells off his company, discovers the shell, proves that it can be done, sells office company in about 2001. right about the same time you have this young guy in oklahoma city who came from a family that had produced governors and senators but sort of came from a little bit of the non multi-sided that family. and he starts off and is what is called a landman. he is someone who goes out

and talks to the individuals to get them to lease their land. he is incredibly good at it. he has the gift of gab. he is just one of the most interesting people you ever meet. he will, when you talk to him, makes you feel like you were the most interesting person he has ever met, just incredibly charismatic. he has this vision, sees what is going on in fort worth. he says, not just to my going to go and take this company to chesapeake which almost went bankrupt a couple years before, but i am going to go all in. you have to imagine, this is someone who in 19 -- let's say 2001 the company had nothing. seven or eight years later the company has 15 million acres under lease, the size of kentucky. and not just that, he had written this little idea into it that every well the chesapeake drove he got a little too and a half% slice

by the time you get around to 2008-9 their drilling more than any other company in the world. he has these little slices. he probably won't more oil and natural gas himself than any other american sense rockefeller. >> the biggest wine cellar in the world. >> unbelievable. seventy pages. he had appetites. it talk to his former partner. how would you describe him. he always wanted more. it was not enough to have a wine cellar he needed to have lots of wine. it was not enough. at one point he had 15 antique motorboats, houses in the bahamas, why, just more and more and more. that eventually brings him down because he has to start, the little slivers of wealth, he has to pay to drove them. and that eventually became $500 million a year, billion

dollars a year. he has to go out and borrow to fund its. eventually in 2012 it collapses. he gets booted out of the company he co-frowns, given no credit. really he created this energy bill and we're talking about, gets booted out of that. carl icahn comes and forces them out. he goes and creates his own company, brings in the former ceo, and that company is now worth about $5 billion. >> so he is back. >> this is his third go round. >> that is amazing. we will see if there is someone in the back with a microphone that will help us out the people that want to ask questions and talk. is that you? with anyone in the audience care to join us?

[inaudible question] >> are we picking that up? yes. it is fine. >> you are really need a microphone? >> you do for the recording. go ahead. it is working. you can speak up, to. >> there have been some concerns about well integrity. and, of course, we are all talking about fracking. the real concern when you talk about platform integrity is the cement. you want to speak, people don't really understand. it was all part of the drilling. >> absolutely. that is a great point.

a lot of people think, well, that is going to cause cracks to run up and let some of the chemicals get into the offers. that is -- in modern shale well that just does not happen. it is so far down. what does happen and what can happen is that if you do not build right, you put the pipe down your putting a lot of cement. if you don't make sure that is solid then you can have some of this grimy water, chemical, some of the naturally occurring weather interactive material flow of and this is sort of basic physics. it will look for the area, look for an area where it can go. that is critically important and i have a whole chapter actually about one of the legends of hydraulic fracking.

in the 1970's he created this very simple instrument that would go down a well and use -- look for a slight temperature variation to find little hairline fractures in the cement. it's amazing. when you think about wells, what a cement after do with it? first of all, this is high-tech cement producer in of all, it was that subject -- bad cement that cost the deepwater horizon. and it's not easy. it's one of the situations where you don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish >> there is quite a bit in the book on this topic. a little more technical. go ahead to the back. what's -- there are a couple people back there with questions. absolutely wonderful. and in his 80's he became my little bit of a few tubes sensation when there was a video of him dancing with his wife. he is quite a character.

>> could you comment on what fracking and exploration might mean to of mexico and how fast that could happen? >> it is interesting. apparently they do not observe international borders. there is plenty of -- there's a lot of potential in mexico. you know, as you might know, for 70, 80 years mexico had a very strict rule that foreign oil companies could not to win. to everyone's been surprise they changed that six months ago or so. >> it is changing. >> it is changing. a vote in may will decide whether it goes forward. >> there is huge potential there. a lot of the big offshore and onshore fields are declining in mexico causing a lot of pressure on the government which give us a huge amount of its revenue from oil and gas.

it certainly seems to be potentially beneficial, but this is important. the united states is unusual and unique in that the surface owners generally also cause the mineral rights. and my family's case we on the surface and mineral. they had to come and make a deal with us. frankly they paid a lot of money. and that is in texas. outside of the united states that does not exist. almost nowhere else in the world does that exist. and the industry has really stumbled because they're going to these places. locals are saying, what is in it for us? we will build fewer new hospital, new school. it cuts really not doing it for us. your guard to bring in trucks, drilling, noisy. it doesn't work. people are often asking, why haven't we seen this revolution go international. it could happen. there is circling no reason

geologically it cannot. the rockets there. it is just an issue of incentive. communities are reluctant. and certainly it helped in the united states that they were getting paychecks. >> anyone in here from louis energy? we have our own billionaire here in san antonio, rob lewis. my understanding is they are already at work south of the border on spots. it is coming. a lot of people and san antonio are wondering how it will change the economy. we have a question back here i think you can just stay there for a minute. we have several people that want to ask questions. >> hello. can you speak a little bit or talk a little bit about what you know about the department of energy and the role that they plan this and can you speak a little bit to the fact of how many of their sites have later become superfund sites?

>> well, as far as i no there are no sites associated with fracking itself so let me approach this in two ways. the department of energy back in the 1970's funded a lot of the basic work that eventually became fracking in the ability to drill a well, go straight down and then turn hours of elite. that was funded by a lot of public money and probably would not have happened or at least not at that speed if it had not been for federal investment. it was clearly a collaboration of public and private money that made this happen. and in the current sector they have been very involved in believe that fracking can be done right in making along with epa taking a lot of steps to try to cut down on the leakage and make it safer.

you know, they need to, like with anything else, not take their eye off the ball. there's a tendency to sometimes say, everything is going great. we can move on. one of the things that i've really learned in talking to cities near fort worth, small towns, the cities that tend to do best and have the best experiences are the ones that made a set of rules, changed the may year later, updated them, brought in something new, constantly stay involved. at the department of energy and the federal level, the federal government's adopted that. i think that things will -- i hope that answers your question. [inaudible question] >> will there be? >> we need a microphone if you're going to ask a question, ma'am. >> i can't look into the future. >> my question was, of the non related fracking issues

so far related to the department of energy over the course of the last 50 years, how many of those are now superfund sites? my idea or concern is that the past is somewhat of an indication of what the future will bring. >> well, when you look at the history of oil and gas exploration in the united states, i can't think of a single one related to oil and gas drilling in the united states. >> can we get another question? let's have the microphone, please. >> your job is just to run around. >> my question is, where are we with exporting natural gas? houston or -- >> on our way. about seven or eight permits have been approved, maybe just nine at this point. the amount of permits approved along the gulf coast, one in norland, --

organ, one in maryland, if all of that is used it would be the second-largest exporter in the world. we're having a discussion about whether we want to be the largest second-largest. will they all get pulled? possibly not. we are clearly on our way to being a very large exporter. >> are we building a major facility right off the texas gulf coast that was originally going to be to import and it will now be to export. >> conventional wisdom a few years ago was that when needed to import lots of natural gas because we were not going to be able to provide it all. a lot of cities along the gulf coast to import natural gas and air now all in the process of being flipped over. the next thing is exporting oil. >> the question back here. >> this is kind of a stupid question. >> well, thank you. [laughter]

>> peak oil, i forget the guy's name. san antonio. he predicted. >> that's right. very good. >> well, i'm fuzzy about it. but i recently talked to somebody in said -- anti told me to my no problem. that was not true because we have plenty now. and i said, no, i don't think so. you are going off to the side and mopping-up what is left over. >> hubbard had a simple prediction. he said that if you are looking at what the wells are doing and what is available we're going to keep increasing producing oil in the united states command right about 1972-73 go into a long decline, and he was absolutely right until 2008. then that started to reverse and we started to grow production. and all of the discussion seems to be over.

we have more oil and gas that we know what to do with. reminds me of an old quotation. the stone age did not end because of a lack of stones. the oil age will not end because of a lack of oil. >> the question right here. >> thank you. first i am going to give you a free plug because i read your article this morning in the "wall street journal". thank you. the his article is a little more in-depth as to what could be done to make fracking more safe and not have catastrophes like we talked about. but my other question is your personal prediction that you may see the price of natural gas -- >> that's dangerous task reporter to make a prediction. i will give it my best.

>> and then at what price would use the end of the resurgence of everything starting over again? because all of a sudden there would be a financial incentive to produce more. >> the companies that drill did not like the price is right now. natural gas, they want maybe five, six, $7 -- let's say $6. consumers are willing to pay maybe four or five. we will be somewhere in the middle. it will go probably a little higher than it is right now. a good news is, we're not seeing ten or $12 price spikes the we did for natural gas. oil, the global market, a hundred dollar a barrel of oil. the more interesting question there is, do we think -- do i think oil prices are more likely to go down rather than up? and i think -- my sense is properly we are looking at lower prices of the next few years.

we have will everywhere. you know, big oil is not in the conversation anymore. we have plenty. but this is a cyclical business. ten years go by and all of a sudden -- you never have too much. and when you do you start using more. if you don't have enough anymore. boom and bust cycle of business. >> i did want to give russells story in the "wall street journal" and online applaud. three things. stop leaks. >> stop methane leaks which we talked about. the one thing we did not talk about, do water testing, do air testing. figurative baseline. there is so much time and energy that has been spent arguing about whether a company cost this water to go back. well, if for every well we tested the water and air before and we would not have those arguments.

we would know, and there would either be a lawsuit are not. the other benefit is we actually don't know that much about the environment, water quality, air quality. if you start 100 times a day taking detailed, scientific readings we would have a great database that would allow us to ask really smart questions about our environment and how to improve it. >> five minutes left. i know we have more questions. >> i have a question within the comment. in 2012 we were supposed to start a subdivision. solar, geothermal, all that stuff. 20 acres. the mayor comes to us on january 2012 the start date, 1 acre solar panels.

you can't started yet. okay. why? we are out of water. the offer is 60 feet below normal right now. it has gone farther. >> you would not leave bill because there was not enough water to sustain the development. >> yes, sir. at this point i don't think it is an issue of quality but quantity. we are in a 40% drop in the united states and texas. the millions of gallons it takes to attract car going down the hall. they are gone. at this point you have the lower car river authority, no water. also the south texas. all of the oral and gas takes a tremendous amount of water, refineries, fracking, everything, electric generation. >> you ask the question. we're down to our last couple of minutes.

>> what, in my opinion, is your take on this? the epa abandoned inspections in the 90's. they gave it to the states. >> what is that it -- this is a simple observation. when you are talking about different groups competing for the same water in south texas will and gas industry has money to outspend everyone. we have seen this before. municipalities, agriculture. that will present an issue. it is not a fair fight right now. clearly all these different groups, whether residential or agriculture or oral and gas, there are all legitimate reasons to use water for these purposes. but when one group has some much money that they can outspend and get what they want it creates a problem. i think you have to look very valid point. >> one more question. right here. >> just a quick question

about sustainability. you mentioned that we have plenty of oil and gas right now. to you think that we should have -- break this up into near term and long term? is seems to me this will be exponential. he will start going through all the whale and gas. we should talk about sustainability in different terms. >> well, when you have all lot of oil and gas, as we do right now, it's the perfect time to talk about where we want to be in 20 years, renewable energy, funding. one of the reasons why as we have added more and more renewals to the grade, pricing and electricity has not gone up because we have some much natural gas. germany and spain, they did not have natural gas and it did not commission. large price increases, and it has been a problem. you have industry moving because of that. so as it might not seem

obvious, but when you have a lot of oil and natural gas, that is the perfect time to start thinking about the future. you do not want to wait until you are running out. if you do it now when you have clearly a couple decades cushion in 20 years we could be in a place which is a lot better and healthier in terms of energy production or energy consumption. that is one of the takeaways this is a real application to use it to get to where we want to be. >> the perfect note to a close. help me in thanking russell gold. [applause] [applause] >> terrific to get back together with you, and we will see you upstairs where you are signing books. [inaudible conversations]

>> here are the highlights for this weekend. friday on c-span we will visit important sites in the history of the civil rights movement. saturday night at 8:00 highlights from the new york ideas for an including cancer biologists andrew has a land q&a with new york congressman charlie rangel at 8:00 eastern. at 8:00 on c-span2, in depth with writer and religious scholar rajah hassan and then ben carson. cindy 9/11:00 p.m. lawrence goldstone on the competition between the right brothers and glenn curtis to be the predominant name in manned flight. american history tv on c-span3 friday at 8:00 eastern, hollywood's portrayal of slavery. saturday night at 8:00 the 200anniversary of the battle of late in bergen the burning of washington and sunday night at 8:00 p.m. white house chiefs of staff discuss how presidents make decisions which find our television scheduled one week in

advance at c-span.org and let us know what you think of the programs you're watching. 202-6263400 or e-mail us at comments@c-span.org. join the c-span conversation, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> the senate commerce committee held a hearing recently examining college sports programs. academics and potential exploitation of athletes lose some of the areas covered included, campus sexual assaults, and the idea of compensating student athletes. it includes n.c.a.a. presidents and the one who discussed his changes. this is 2 hours and 45 minutes.