how thrilled they were with it. and how they were going to make it even stronger. there's a growing perception that college athletics, particularly division i football and basketball are notwoke indications at all. critics of big-time athletics say the goal is not to provide young people with a college education, but to produce a winning program that reached financial readers for the athletic departments and their schools. it is not, however, about the students. they're part of what generates the money. it's about capturing the billions of dollars of television and marketing revenues that college sports do generate. and will generate even more. colleges and universities say

that these refuses benefit college athletes and their student bodies at large. but i think we have to consider whether the lure of such riches could corrupt the basic mission of athletic programs. winning teams get higher payouts than losing teams which creates a strong incentive to win. an incentive which land grant public universities and others are more than happy to follow and win at any cost. much of the money is often funneled right back into the sports programs in the form of multimillion-dollar coaching facilities and state of the art facilities many of it paid for by the taxpayerses to perpetuate the cycle of winning. i think somewhere in my reading here, about $48 million of all the $900 million that ncaa gets

from, you know, their broadcasting, march madness and all the rest of it, a very small portion goes specifically to academics. but even that's hard to figure. because nobody has the figures. mr. emmert works for them. they make the decisions. he carries out what they want. and, yet, the subject of discussion is how does he carry out what they want. what powers do-z -- do you have, mr. emmert, for actually carrying out what you think is a good idea. you're the president of three major university, different places, then i would think your passion for education would need to show itself. athletics, to me, are meant to serve schools and their public duty to educate students. not the other way around. that's the way it's always put

forward. and that's the way it should always be. dr. mark emmert is here to present the perspective of the colleges and universities that belong to the ncaa. i would thank you for testifying. you could have declined to do so, some do, but you didn't, and i'm grateful for that. i believe you were put at the helm of the ncaa because you have an impressive academic credentials and a sterling reputation. and i think that we all appreciate that you're extremely well compensated. your individual qualities are not what trouble me. i think i'm just very skeptical that the ncaa can never lift up to the lofty mission that you constantly talk about and which is written and printed in speeches and statements response to penn state this or that. nothing comes before education, he's always there, but the

actions don't appear to be. i don't see how the ncaa will ever be capable of making a safe, good, education experience for students their number one priority. i want you to tell me that i'm wrong. that i am wrong and that i'm particularly wrong about the future. but i'll be a tough sale. i think we believe that the ncaa has largely been left to its own, to determine what forms are appropriate. and how to accomplish our mission, as we continue to learn more about what goes on at some major universities and colleges, we want to know if the ncaa is seriously considering how college athletes are faring under this system. not just living, as they do, but injured as they often become. racked by poverty. if they don't do well, maybe they're stipends are cut off.

and is there an advantage in a mandated four-year scholarship. all of these things are put at play. how are young men who strap on their helmets on a football field in front of 100,000 passionate paying customers, how are they doing? how are young men who lace up their shoes and play basketball for march madness that consumes the nation, and deliberately spread out over a long period of time so no kid, 12 years or 10 years or older could ever hope to do any homework because there's always basketball on. are colleges and universities living up to their end of the bargain in providing them with a good education? are these young athletes entitled to any of the billions of dollars that are reaped from their athletic service. and when young men and women put

their bodies at work, whether women's lacrosse or men's soccer, do they have adequate health insurance? i don't know. i don't know. and i never go into a restaurant or barber shop or anything without asking sometimes to their discomfort, do you have health care? and i know what the answer is going to be. dot schools and athletic leagues sufficiently minimize the risk of concussion? and what happens to a student injured before graduation, can he or she finish out their studies. or does the scholarship run dry? well, a couple of months ago, we all heard the deeply troubling comments shabazz napier the talented university of connecticut guard who was very valuable in the basketball tournament in the midst of a

tournament that generated hundreds of millions of dollars for the ncaa and its members. mr. napier talking about how sometimes he did not have enough to eat during college. how did college sports benefit mr. napier on nights he went to bed hungry. you can look at it two ways. oh, there he is trying to pick out a famous athlete and turn it into some problem. i'm not trying to do that. i think it is a problem. and the whole sense of giving students a safety net, and a sense of confidence, if they're not, they don't turn out to be as good, and they don't make the team. the third year, are they dropped, do they get scholarships or what happens? i don't know. the title of today's hearing is promoting the well-being and success of college athletes. i want to have an open-minded and frank discussion on this subject. the ncaa has the same goal as i

do. dr. emmert is going to tell us that the ncaa's commission is to protect college athletes from abusive practices and exploitation. and promote college sports as a means towards achieving academy excellence. today, i want to explore whether the ncaa is fulfilling its mission. we still hear too many reports of fraudulent academics. we still hear stories for athletes who have nothing to show even though they provided millions and millions of dollars. i'm here to tell you, and if perchance, the clem cats should control the congress next time. and nobody is quite sure about that, john thune has one idea. bill nelson has another idea and -- you, yeah, okay.

and that i think that we want to continue this. we want to make this a continuing surge of this oversight committee. we have jurisdiction over sports. all sports. and we have the ability to subpoena. we have the ability to -- we've created a special investigations unit. we're very into this subject. i personally am. i think our members are. and so, this is the part of the process here. so, i'm going to have some tough questions for our panel. the ncaa and its member schools, is it simple a little legal cartel, have college sports become a multibillion dollar commercial enterprise which is no different than other corporate witnesses who have appeared before this information? and is the ncaa in fact have the

best interests of college athletes. large questions and important to be answered. i turn now to my very distinguished ranking member, senator john thune from the state of minnesota. >> thank you, mr. chairman, for holding the hearing today. i want to thank our panelists for the opportunity to examine the current state of collegiate athletics. like you look forward to hearing from our witnesses including how the ncaa and its member commissions are fulfilling that. i'm an avid sports fan. i know others are as well. as a former basketball player high school and college and the proud father of a daughter who competed at the division i level, i certainly recognize that the participation in sports requires not only physical strength but teaches team work and other skills that serve you throughout life.

however, the college and student athlete is and should be a student first. colleges must prioritize their academy obligation to student athletes. as the popularity of sports has grown in men's and women's basketball so, too, has the profitability of many collegiate programs. in the current environment, the stakes have been raised for the athlete who wants to succeed and a university that has a financial interest in winning games. increasing revenues to some schools due in large part to the broadcast rights of football and basketball games have become more common. revenues for ticket sales are also significant. and of course, alumni n krrcaa s to promote athletics and higher education so the academics of the student athlete is paramount, however, college sports, some institutions appear

unable to balance the core academic mission of the university and the commercial considerations that often accompany athletics, plarlg in high-profile sports. many feel the commitment to the student athlete is falling short. another point of contention involved athletic scholarships and whether the practice of offering annual instead of multi-year contracts result in the student possibly losing their scholarship. they may disadvantage smaller schools that can't match the resources of larger institutions. clearly, collegiate athletics in america are not without controversy, and we'll hear from some of the most vocal critics today. i hope we will not lose sight of the positive impact that amateur athletics has made on the lives of countless student athlets. it's not just about basketball

and football. they shared the results of a student athlete exit interviews he conducts annually to conduct the school's program from the vantage point of the athletes themselves. he underscored two things that stood out. the athletic director at usd reiterated how a sophomore diver recovered from open-heart surgery to qualify to dive at the ncaa championships, the feat that would not be available without the support of the coaches, team, and family. he also animated the story of a sophomore swimmer who leaned on other athletes to support her in the loss of her father. she was able to return to the pool and she went to the summer championships. as a usd athletic director puts it, these two are just a sample of what college athletics should mean. if you strip away the money,

fancy locker rooms, chartered flights and large budgets, you're left with student athletes who often have to overcome personal, social, economic, academic, and athletic adversity, all just to compete. but they frequently do it with passion and determination that makes us all proud, end quote. that's from the athletic director at the university of south dakota. recognizing the challenges exist, it's my hope the ncaa, its member institutions, the student athletes themselves and other stakeholders will seek solutions that promote the education, health, and well being of student athletes and seek to preserve amateurism in student athletics. this is an area where congress can provide a forum, but the solutions are most likely to come from those involved in the development of the student athletes. thank you again for holding the hearing. i look forward to hearing and having an opportunity to question the witnesses. >> thank you, sir. what we're going to do now is

we're going to hear the testimony. and then both senator mccaskill and senator booker, both of whom are sterling and wonderful people, are going to get very, very angry at me. because i'm going to charge into the regular order and i'm going to allow senator koets to ask the first question, which violates all the rules of the committee. >> i'm mad. >> that will make you a better questioner. >> as the most junior member on the committee, the senate rules do not allow me to be mad at you, chairman. >> and for what it's worth, i was of the impression also that we were on the first to arrive and ask questions in order. so i arrived add 2:10 just so i could be first. because i didn't want to put you in a bad spot or breach the rules. >> you never do, and you're

wonderful, so you'll ask the first questions after the two of us. >> and thank you for being here. and don't be nervous. >> okay. >> i mean it. it's a wonderful opportunity to say what's in your heart and on your mind. >> yes, sir. first, i want to thank you you and the committee for inviting me here today. to share some of my experience and knowledge on this very important subject. very complicated subject as well. i have had many conversations with fellow student athletes on this issue. about the current role of student athletes today. in this giant scheme of collegiate athletics, and we often walk away from those conversations with more questions than answers, so i'm hoping today is a first step towards answering some of those questions and providing some context and clarity to this discussion so that we can see our student athletes receive maximum edification in all aspects of their person, be it a student, an athlete, a leader, and a man and a woman.

that's very important to me. i wanted to start my remarks by beginning at the genesis of my story. my parents are from the island of the bahamas. my brothers are as well. i was born here in the states and raised in new jersey. i went to high school in princeton, new jersey, and after my school days in princeton, i would go to the university, and i saw this big statue, poster of this guy who became my hero, bill bradley. he was a rock star in my opinion. the epitome of what a student athlete should be. nba hall of famer, u.s. senator, and a rhodes scholar. the first time i heard those two words, rhodes scholar used in the same sentence. once i fijsed high school in princeton, i had 83 scholarship offers to go anywhere i wanted to, and i was rated the number one high school prospect in the country. i decided to go to florida state. the first thing i did was going to the office of national fellowships and told them i

wanted to be a rhodes scholar like my hero, bill bradley. if he did it, i wanted to do it as well. three years later, i was fortunate to earn that scholarship. then i want to see my teachers and mentors and told you i want to increase my capital so one day i can be a pediatric nurse lie ben carson. now hopefully i'll be able to do that in the future. lastly, i went to my strength coaches and my trainers, and i told them i wanted them to equip my body and get me ready for a career as a national football player. fortunately, i was able to be drafted by the titans and play for the steelers as well. it makes not only my story is pristine and ideal and maybe used as a poster child for what you want a collegiate student athlete to have experienced, but i will say that my story is quite rare and unique, and some people even call it an anomaly because outside of senator cory booker, the last major division

i player to earn the scholarship was a rams quarterback. there are very few student athlete who had the same infrastructure, the family support, the foresight not come from a broken school system in high school, not come from a broken family, were able to engage in their college experience and maximize their time. many more of my teammates and friends and student athletes struggled in the college environment, struggled mightily, struggled economically because they became believe it or not, the main bread winners for their families and with vd to send some of their scholarship money to take care of their immediate and extended family. they also struggled academically as well. a lot would go through this academic machinery in their cleeb colleges and be spit out at the end left, torn, worn, and asking questions. with really no direction, no

guidance on where to go, no purpose, no idea of their trajectory and sometimes left with a degree in hand that didn't behoove any of their future interests. today, i hope today we can shed light on this aspect. as you said, chairman, we're really pouring energy and life and money and exposure and highlighting on tv the life of the athlete. but i believe we're still falling a bit short of edifying and improving, augmenting the aspect of the students, the person, the man, the woman, and even the philanthropist and leader. i believe if we can do that, if we can not only see our student athletes go on to become productive athletes in the preflsh rinks, but more importantly, be productive leaders and citizens who go on to be leaders of industry, of man, of woman, and have an indelible impact as they go on with their future. thank you for having me here. i'm looking forward to having this discussion. >> thank you very much. now, welcome.

devon, right? >> good afternoon, chairman. yes. good afternoon, chairman rockefeller and members of the committee. it's an honor and a pleasure to have this opportunity to be in your presence and share my story and thoughts on the current state of college athletics. let me first thank you and your staff for your invitation. i was born to sharon and darren on december 8th, 1988. in new jersey. my mother always valued a strong education and sent me to a blue ribbon winner school that covered kindergarten through eighth grade. i excelled in the classroom and participated in athletics. by the time it was time for me to leave, i had the opportunity to go to a school right down the road in princeton that played against myron. i decided this would be the best academic and athletic environment for me. i will go on to a successful academic and athletic career,

graduating in 2007 and i decided to sign my letter of intent to go to the university of north carolina at chapel hill. what drew me to that school was not only its esteemed reputation as a top academic institution but also as a nigh hire of the new head coach butch davis. it showed the university had an all-around commitment to excellence. my career at the university of north carolina has been one filled with adversity. i have undergone five surgeries, been through three head coaches, and been asked if i wanted to transfer or if i wanted to take a medical red shirt. however, despite all this, i managed to succeed being named an offensive starter four out of the six years and my nfl draft analyst, mel kiper, named me top three in my position. but most importantly, i got my degree in public policy with a concentrate in business. as a graduate, i moved back to red bank, where i would pursue my hopes of making an nfl team.

however, i didn't make the team at tampa bay. now, in the summer of 2010, twof my teammates have violated ncaa rules and attended a party throw my sports agents. the university of north carolina then launched their own investigation into the matter, and discovered several potential counts of academicfra ..d clemson, i was told to report to one of the conference rooms and brought in for questioning by university officials. before the questioning began, i was told this conversation would be recorded and it was asked if i needed a lawyer. i thought i had been called in there to see if they could find any more leads for their investigation. then they asked -- they began to ask me about my definition of academic fraud, academic dishonesty and plagiarism. that's when they brought up a 2-year-old e-mail correspondence between myself and a tutor. in the said e-mail, i asked the

university's tutor for help with grammar and overall quality in the paper. she replied by adding four to five sentences to a two and a half page paper. they asked me if this paper, if it was the exact same paper i turned in. however, i couldn't remember since it was two years ago. in the follower four weeks, i was held out of competition, they sent me to the university's honor court and the attorney general of the honor court said there was no case here, there wasn't enough evidence, they had no final version of the paper, it wasn't submitted electronically, and most people don't keep papers from two years ago. as i was being held out by unc, an official from the compliance office proposed if i were to be believed guilty after being held out for so many games, that the ncaa would in fact allow me to play. at this tiement, i believed the unc's compliance was well versed in ncaa policy.

however, it was a shocking blow when they then ruled me guilty of academic fraud which stripped away my remaining eligibility and tarnished my reputation. after coming to the realization that unc was more concerned with penalties and lawsuits than scholarships than protecting one of its own, my mother and i set out to find lawyers who would hopefully have my best interests at heart. however, none wanted to stand against the ncaa nor its membership. fortunately for me, a state supreme court judge reached out to my mother after reading an article she had been involved with in news observer. without the judge's legal knowledge and tenacity, i would have no one it turn to. as we went to the appeals process, which was possible with the endorsement of the university of north carolina, the leadership at unc once again wanted me to take a plea for a sentence, however, the judge, my mother, and i needed to have my name unsullied. by going back and looking at the original interview, reviewing a

lack of evidence and disregarding the guided testimony, the ncaa overturned its ruling and reinstated my eligibility. unfortunately, the first game of the next season, i tore three ligaments in my knee. i wasn't able to return to the final game of the season. now, one of the things that was, looking back at my career, that i wish i could have par taken in, was intermships. a few of my friends from laurenville went on to play at the ivy league, and with the their -- it's not as demanding as, you know, high level division i football, they were allowed to go and pursue other things in the summer. and upon graduation, some of my friends got great job offers. an internship gives you direction, teaches you valuable life lessons and prepares for you professionalism.

a competitive football school, competing an internship is almost impossible. one must be enrolled in a number of credit offers. i have seen fellow athletes get hours, most ended up quitting their internship because of the sheer level of exhaustion on any given day. only one was able to compete his internship because he wasn't required to go to any classes. at the university of north carolina, football players were one of the only teams not allowed to participate in university camps that would create another source of income. in fact, during a panel discussion about the documentary school, the price of college sports, head coach of the george mason men's basketball team, paul hewitt, stated his team has to do an internship before they graduate, a mandatory one. i think this is a great

practice. if the ncaa truly wants to develop student athletes and prepare them for success in the field, they should mandate that all athletes complete an internship. the reason is it needs to be mandated is because of the existing culture that demonizes any activity that won't directly help a program. players that go home for a semester, and i have friends who have done this, are labeled as selfish and lazy and almost a cancer to the team. but in fact, he's just going home, he's still working out, just trying to improve his own value for the likelihood he's not going to make the nfl. i have come to realize there's a void in college athletics. the incaa as an institution no longer protects the athlete. they're more interested in signage and profits. i wasn't aware that i needed to defend myself against my university and the ncaa, and as a student, i lacked the resources and knowledge to defend myself.

against an 80-year-old institution. my family lacked the resources to hire a lawyer, and if i refused to be interviewed i would have been held out until i testified. in the ncaa, college football players have a very small window of opportunity to prove our worth to the nfl. therefore, every game you miss is a lost opportunity, and a means to devalue worth. there needs to exist an entity that quickly works to help the student. it terrifies me how many students might have had their eligibility unjustly taken and the reputation damaged. the student athlete has a short career and is an amazing renewable resource, and because of that, the ncaa is able to take advantage of naive young men and women. there needs to be an organization that will in fact protect that college athlete that has no ties to the financial being of the universities or the ncaa. allowing the ncaa to continue to intimidate schools and athletes

is dangerous and unfair. to quote a famous poet, who will watch the watchmen. thank you for the opportunity to be beforyou to it is appreciated lot. taylor branch is from baltimore and author and historian and what i call one of the five best books ever written with my own reading preferences about the civil-rights movement and also inexpert and has written extensively. welcome. >> thank you senator rockefeller and members of the committee. sports fans, educators, i am honored to be here. college sports and the well-being of college athletes is lovell of minefields and myths. i hope to offer some summary comments for possible

discussion under three headings amateurism amateurism, balance, and equity. amateurism is the distinguishing feature is identified as the official pronouncement as the bedrock principle of college and athletics. the n.c.a.a. by laws mandate conduct as follows, a student athletes challenging mergers in the intercollegiate sport should be motivated primarily by the education and the physical and mental social benefits to be derived. student participation in intercollegiate athletics and athletes should be protected from exploitation by professional and commercial enterprise. ''. n.c.a.a. by law to .9. the word amateur has conflicted attitude of money or you for the purposes of the of recreation it has

flexibility to allow the united states to become the world's only nation to develop commercialize sports at institutions of higher learning. even the major universities involved which were founded to uphold the intellectual rigor routinely ignore or excuse the contradictions of a multibillion-dollar industry built on the undergraduate students. confusion begins with the word itself. dictionary synonyms were from enthusiasts to a rocky and merriam-webster gives the illustration of people running the company are a bunch of amateurs. the same word expresses praise and scorn without distinction. this ambiguity pains reinforcement in the uniquely designed popular sport where fans are encouraged to cheer without

thinking objectively. the ideal of ancient greek amateurism has always been misleading for they competed for huge prizes and aerosol goes back to the earliest and scholars have confirmed evidence of high stakes victory and loss. purists who refuse to mix money was for did not exist in the ancient world. in with the cash competition as openly as they posed a victory in the sacred contexts. golf legend is enshrined in history as the model amateur who declined every championship prize he earned. that is the true definition of amateur derived from the latin word how one chooses

to pursue a out of devotion. some non college sports still allow athletes to declare and renounce amateur status. significantly students themselves call themselves amateurism invented intercollegiate sports after the civil war until then they retain general control of the new phenomenon from scheduling and equipment to a ticket sales. they recruited alumni to construct harvard stadium in 1903 with the zero funds from the college. neither the faculties or critics helped to construct the stadium who said the father of football in his spare time. the n.c.a.a. created the 1906 transformed the amateur

transition inherited athletes. it declared a goal of total faculty control by 1922 and the organization could not hire its full-time staff member until 1951. after that burgeoning revenue from television contracts allowed them to enforce the mature roles as the objective as rather a subjective choice and it is problematic. because they, they run afoul of the constitution. because rules contradict the key requirement of the calling by denying athletes a voice. n.c.a.a. rules cover -- govern the players to exclude them from consent.

checks and balances are required for sound government and the structure has a lease for basic steps. the n.c.a.a. suffers the inherent conflict of interest between alleged violations and football as opposed to basketball because the organization lost television revenue from college football and is almost wholly dependent on the sole source broadcasting contract from march madness tournament. second it creates a false impression of, a practice between a few schools that aggressively commercialize athletics and roughly 150 of them and the vast majority has negligible sports revenue. and the amateurism's stretches from a division from notre dame football on espn. serve, n.c.a.a. officials of

skier differences between commercialize sports and the academic mission on campus. in the classroom colleges that you high expertise but this traditional role was reversed with big-time sports here they deliver to the college's it is basic and fundamental to promote integrity. college athletes are or should be students in the classroom and competitors sam players in the athletic department. they face multiple roles with the conflicting demands cannot be managed or balance of less squarely recognize. the n.c.a.a. recognizes the separation by insisting that sports are the educational supplement for a hybrid creature under its jurisdiction called the student athlete. university implicitly

concurred by of loading the academic responsibility to the n.c.a.a.. so the member schools tripp rights from athletes uniquely as a class no college tries to ban it for all students and no legislature could or would write laws to confiscate earnings for a legitimate enterprise. on the contrary they sponsor extensive work city programs and students everywhere exercise freedom from bookstores to pete said delivery to the entrepreneurial launch of facebook of months they are athletes because college athletes alone according to an n.c.a.a. it is unethical. equity. basic fairness requires the rights and freedoms of the participants above the

convenience of observers. applied to college sports this means no freedom should be a rage because of athletic status. i am neither of lawyer or professional economists i find ample evidence to find collusion in the regulatory structure. in my'' economics there is it example of economic cartel for any profit in the courts have agreed into landmark cases the n.c.a.a. verses university of oklahoma that the supreme court struck down the exclusive control of the broadcast as an illegal restraint of trade and overnight they won the freedom to sell every broadcast without having to share proceeds through the smaller schools and one said

we eat what we kill. and in 1998 the assistant coaches one of $54 million settlement with the order covering the $60,000 limit on the starting salary. the compensation of the assistant football coaches cracked the $1 million barrier since them a salary skyrocketing. by 2010 the university of florida paid a volleyball coach $365,000. but the supervisors of college sports have one economic freedom and enjoy largess from the marketplace that shackles only the most the vital talent, the players. the n.c.a.a. creates and enforces rules regarding

eligibility with compensation. officials steadfastly assert their system is devoted to the educational welfare benefits of the college athlete may football never again be placed ahead of education to protect young people did when he announced sanctions for the recent scandal at penn state. such professions must be reconciled somehow with the n.c.a.a. rules that systematically deny college athletes of fuel when dash shuffle range of rights from to representation. these rules can turn words of their head like "alice in wonderland." the bedrock pledged to avoid commercialization of college athletes will safeguard them from being paid too much or at all rather than to litter

-- little with the ordinary usage of the word exploit to use selfishly for $0.1 -- ones end. with the work of the commerce committee this is not the first time that the government of images porch with the education college athletes has presented a tangle of passion a vested interest and 50 years ago in an early bonanza in sports revenue intensified the feud between the n.c.a.a. that controlled access to the olympic games. leaders accused of being unpatriotic to sabotage the chances to win a medal a unclaimed college athletes were already paid and therefore not amateurs settle since the n.c.a.a. approved athletic scholarships in 1956. officials reported a a you

coaches were parasites on the college training facility. they boycotted a and disqualified each other until kennedy elicited a mediator douglas macarthur for the 1964 tokyo olympics although exhausted macarthur for those proposals to the committee your predecessor with the sports act of 1978 and one key provision was a 20% share on each of the 39 olympic committee's. and then they hit the balance of the governing communities in and around the globe. marathon races tennis tournaments recognize the right for players to keep

their olympic eligibility. and with other games of corporate sponsors officials came to welcome professional competitors in every sport except a boxing. by 1986 the ioc expunge the word amateur from the bylaws to modify every prediction and indeed most people don't notice the change will help to recognize success? this example suggests a good place to start wherever possible rather than a glorified and where it extends into college sports to give them a voice.

with the compatibility of commercialize sports. thank you. >> thank you very much. i will be critical of myself because then a general rule of around here is witnesses speak for five or six minutes but i failed to make that clear. >> is says five minutes when i was not watching. [laughter] cement please keep it up five or six minutes would be the best. thank you for your testimony. it was my fault. mr. bradshaw former director of athletics at temple university snyder rockefeller and ranking members and ladies and gentlemen, of the committee good afternoon. your invitation to testify about promoting the well-being for student athletes is much appreciated. it is an honor to represent

the 1600 institutions and 11,000 individual members of nafta as the practitioners of our enterprise to represent an accent -- in excess across all divisions as well as the junior community colleges. that serves as a professional association for those of the field it provides educational opportunities and serves as a vehicle for networking the exchange of information and advocacy on behalf of the association. my career with higher education shows the assistant baseball coach and director of alumni in 36 years as division won athletic tractor at three universities. my athletic career has three years as a student athlete, by two years as a professional ball player with a washington senator

career within a broken ankles forced a career change and they trust their safe with you today. [laughter] as they return from this profession one year ago during the five decades of my career i have seen significant improvement in the commitment by universities for the academic and athletic experiences of student athletes from state of the arts and academics three lead to coaching and training and to the much improved safety requirements and the merging benefits our student athletes have never had a better. and yet we know we can do better. rias educators are committed to maximize the enormous academic potential that our student-athletes printery universities. to access the well-being is

important to examine the university's performances in the areas of academics and financial security health safety and life skills. academics. over the past 20 years graduation rates have drastically improved for student athletes in 2013 the success rate was 82% including 71% for the participants as 73% for student athletes. among the reason for this improvement is requirements for initial eligibility and university proactive response to the academic to have tiu classroom performance each semester. health and safety the

diversity strives to use best practices we cannot insure the safety the concussions in the sports of football remains one of the highest priorities for every athletic director every level. best practices' letter, and please include strength training and conditioning coaches in nutritionist and seminars to discuss drugs and all as well as date rape and gambling as well as regular drug testing. financial security and as we know the real cost to attend has risen above inflation that have a massive debt upon graduation approving too costly for others even attend. division one athletes receive 2.1 million of the athletic scholarships and will continue to a accelerate with legislation

of combined with the annual increase of tuition and room and board and books and fees. in addition according to the u.s. census data a college graduate on average earned $1 million more over a lifetime ban on graduate. other financial benefits are university health insurance he sealed the bow -- multi-year athletic grants and student assistance funds the vastly improved conditions have resulted in the unprecedented preferences in the classroom on the playing field and in preparation for life. few other campus activities or clubs produce such natural diversity is intercollegiate athletics to bring together men and women with a common denomination

be athletic skills. less than 1% will ever participate in professional sports and the professional career asked -- last only a few years underscores the college education that many could not afford without an athletic scholarship the student athletes are the most important people to consider in our decision making if we always ask ourselves before allocating resources is this decision in the best interest of our student athletes? then i believe that answer has helped us to arrive at the right decision any questions are most welcome think you for inviting me to be with you this afternoon. >> now professor at university of south carolina director of the college board's research institute.

>> sharon rockefeller distinguished committee members thank you for a opportunity to speak to you today. thank you for giving me a vice. as director of the research institute my comments today are not off the cuff remarks but from economic theory is drawn extensively reflect the metal in my work also that of colleagues and scholars will live am well aware there are demographic differences between the divisions as well as revenue as an olympic sport the testimony will focus on how with college sports members have fought to protect their business interests at the expense of the well-being and academic success of profit.

for several decades the n.c.a.a. was aware of the spending that continues to grow a general sense big-time athletics is in conflict with increased scrutiny that is likely if graduation rates do not improve. consequently 2003 the n.c.a.a. mark dunder branding strategy as part of the media relations agenda to address critics' to provide the alternative would it describes of what it creates a term of art as a better understood definition that isolates the principle to the way college athletes are viewed without imposing the nature on revenue producing opportunity. notably division revenue has doubled since 2003 internal

documents reveal protecting the model is the primary focus of the office of the n.c.a.a. president cahn currently in the effort with the clear line of demarcation to offer support for the effectiveness of the new academic progress program it developed the academic progress rate the graduation success rate. since 2003 n.c.a.a. has consistently sought to use these rates as proof that college sports has clear focus of education however several items are not worth the. number 193 the federal graduation rates mandated by congress nor the gsr is perfect as a metric to

utilize different sampling to examine different cohorts and in short their different graduation rates. phidias are will rate between twelver to buy% higher as far back as 1991 they knew removing the eligible dropouts the transfers for those who leave from the cold war would have paid higher success rate since there is no general wage report data to right and appropriate comparisons to foster confusion with the public well thought to protect the collegiate model is too often with that admission

process to focus eligibility to results in athletes clustering or steered to make this conducive to the practice of the work schedule. several authorities within the governing structures recognize clucks -- clustering as of problem contrary to the public posturing they have been physically and culturally and socially isolated from the campus community. they live in a tightly controlled parallel universe to have continuous consent the big-time sports enhances

the educational experience texture propaganda is effective to be intellectually engaged with the alternative use since 2003 it has six as we emphatically did athletics in to the public consciousness there is little progress to an scheerer profit athletes to educational opportunities and in conclusion there is clear evidence the athletics at collegiate level systematically inhibits access to a0 world-class education and athletes by denying basic bargaining rights coming due process and standard forms of compensation. thank you for the opportunity to visit with you today. t with you today.

>> thank you for your excellent testimony, and finally, dr. mark emerick. who -- well, you all know who he is. >> thank you, senator. good afternoon to you and to senator thune -- >> is your microphone on? >> thank you. i appreciate that. is it working now? >> no, no difference. >> as a recovering university president, i learn to project, so thank you very much. good afternoon to all of you on the panel. i'm mark emerick. i serve now as the president of the ncaa since october of 2010. following 30 years as a profess professor, a university administrator and a university president. i certainly appreciate the opportunity to appear before all of you today and discuss what i agree are very important issues, and i particularly want to thank you, mr. chairman, for working with us on the timing of this hearing. it's good that we're able to be here.

the ncaa' core purpose as has already been pointed out is to promote the well being and success of more than 460,000 student athletes as they enjoy both world-class athletic experiences and receive access to top-notch educations. that's why i have been working diligently with the division i board of directors, our member universities, and all of the stakeholders to drive policy changes that support student athletes success and indeed, address many of the issues that have already been raised here today. during my tenure, we have enacted more than a dozen key reforms, two notable examples are raising academic standards and adding the opportunity for multiple-year scholarships. as we discuss how to improve college sports today, it's important to understand that the ncaa is a democratically governed membership led association of nearly 1100 colleges and universities. as such, neither i nor any member of my staff have a vote on association policy or

infractions decisions. it's important to note that appropriately in my opinion, university presidents themselves are the ultimate decision makers within the association. members make rules through a representative process much as you do in congress. it is challenging, obviously, to bring together coaches, athletic administrators, faculty members and presidents to achieve consensus on much of anything, let alone college sports. and while a change of pace is not what i or members would like, division i schools are working diligently, even as we speak, to create a new decision making structure that will yield practical and i hope timely results on all of these issues. before we discuss the challenges at hand, let me be clear. college sports in my opinion work extremely well for the vast majority of our 460,000 student athletes. and while it can and should be modified, the collegiate model should in fact be preserved because of all of the good it

provides for so many. nonetheless, i agree there are very important changes that need to be made, and many university presidents happen to agree with me. let me describe the most important ones. first, student athletes in my opinion should be given a scholarship for life. so they may complete a bachelor's degree, even if their education is delayed for any reason unrelated to a lack of academic progress or serious misconduct. second, scholarships should cover the full and actual cost of attendance, not simply tuition, room, and board, books and supplies. third, ncaa schools must always lead in the area of health and safety. for example, the ncaa along with a variety of medical experts released recently new guidelines that address the diagnosis, the management, and the prevention of sports-related concussions. fourth, the ncaa must work assertively with all of our universities on sexual assault

prevention and support for victims. this is a national crisis, and we could all do better. fifth, while all student athletes today are covered by insurance for injuries and the ncaa covers catastrophic injuries, any gaps in coverage must be closed. sixth, the academic success of student athletes must remain our ultimate priority. this means providing them with the time as well as the resources they need to take advantage of the opportunities at college campuses as our two former athletes here have testified. finally, all changes that are made, these and others, must maintain a support for title ix and cannot come at the cost of student athletes in women's and non-revenue generating sports. the ncaa provides countless opportunities to men and women, including many from low-income families.

in fact, some 82,000 current student athletes are first-generation college students. and at the risk of correcting mr. bradshaw, it is now $2.7 billion in athletic scholarships that are provided to students who make that a reality. further, ncaa revenues are reinvested in our mission. specifically, last year's revenue allowed us to conduct 89 national championships in 23 different sports with nearly 50,000 student athletes participating in those championships from across the entire country. those revenues allowed us to provide $700 million directly to colleges and universities in all three divisions. $100 million of which was used to cover extra expenses and emergency expenses for division i student athletes. further, those revenues allowed us to cover the $14 million insurance premium for catastrophic insurance policies for our student athletes. college sports are serving

student athletes very, very well for the most part. yes, there are changes to both policy and a culture that are needed, and they require frank conversations like the one we're having here and serious action. i'm committed to working with you and our member schools to insure that student athletes have all of the opportunities for success they deserve, and i want to thank you for the invitation, mr. chairman, to appear today. i look forward to taking your questions and working with you in the future. >> thank you very much, mr mr. emerick. i will start. senator thune will follow, and then senator koets and we'll according to a website, going back to basics death student at the health and safety and well-being remain our top priorities. yet in court papers filed where of family sued the n.c.a.a. after the son died from brain injury in a preseason football practice the n.c.a.a. asserted it

denies it has a legal duty to protect student-athletes. i find that extraordinary. i know what your answer will be and that will upset me. but the question is how you reconcile your web sites priority for health and safety that we declare our different it does not have a legal duty to protect student-athletes. >> will not quibble about the language at the very least it was a terrible choice of words. and then i will unequivocally state we have a moral obligation to do everything we can to support and protect student-athletes

>> what i perceive is a web of convenient protection to all parties. you suggested there are a number of universities universities, where i really want to see is to have the panelists and p mid presidents from land grant publicly funded universities it will come to that i know how we will without it but that was bad language while lawyers who got confused or whatever it was? so you go over that the earlier you said there are a number of universities that want to make changes that you be enumerated but then

that you don't have the authority to do anything everything is in the hands of universities. universities like things the way they are because they make us a ton of money actually more than ever before. there is about 120 that make most of it. i don't know how change it is possible. had to make the case to say you can be a participant that they don't have to listen to anything they say? >> i can tell you what is going on right now in less than one month, the division won board will vote on a

structure all the subjects that we are describing here today in the hands of the 65 universities that have the largest revenue. the schools within the five. >> i have to interrupt why would you pick 65 schools that make the most money? they would be the least likely to make changes. >> to the contrary they precisely want to make changes that have price tags associated with them and they want to make those changes and are blocked it to do so from those institutions that have less revenue. 51 to move to the scholarship model with full cost of attendance that the division board passed it was overridden by the membership of the 350 schools predominantly with the support of the 65 major school saying this is what

we need and they were blocked by the other institutions. so those schools and all the presidents of the pact will be a big 10 have said these of the changes we must make are these the smaller ones that blocked the progress of these are the largest conferences the sec, big 12, a big tent, a pact wealth. >> would you agree with me that college sports has long

forgotten the word amateurism? i am talking about the 120 major, there is more than that, that it is just a business and the more money you can make, west virginia university's signed on to the big 12 that guarantees only one saying that most of the people of west virginia who are not high yen, or moderate income cannot go to any games in the southwest. but university sure makes money from its. how would you respond to that? is that right or fair or progressive? >> the first is the first 20 dominant schools of which you are referring have abandoned the concept of

amateurism and i would save know they have not. i would agree the topline revenue with college athletics have moved up very sharply in the last two decades. and then back into the athletic program they're not doing this to turn a profit fell last year of 1100 schools 23 had a positive cash flow and invested all of the money they had from college boards with some leftover. everyone else put resources into college sports instead of taking them how to. with the changes that occurred with of construction i probably agree with your is very disappointed with the changes the conference's saw

to make progress with significant travels challenges not just for the finance but the student athletes. win you have to go across the country for a football game italy happens occasionally but here volleyball team or basketball team in maine student athletes travel a great deal with commitment so i was disappointed in many of those changes that occurred. >> i turned to the ranking member. >> under your presidency you indicated you take the initiative to form these division one subcommittees' to address needed changes and what you hope to accomplish with that initiative? >> as a mentioned within one month i hope we will see the board passed a completely new decision making structure because of the

challenges to make decisions around reform the leadership of the 65 leading university said we have to find a better way to make progress than they have identified many items i just addressed and a handful of others so there is in interest to find ways to provide greater support for student athletes twice over the last 36 months we had a proposal to allow universities to give student-athletes an additional $2,000 to cover miscellaneous expenses. i believe the university's this fall will approve a proposal to do something like that again and i hope even a more robust model to cover the cost to be a student athlete. we could pass changes that

allow but didn't require multi year scholarships for student athletes prior to three years ago universities were forbidden by rules to provide players scholarships we could get the taste and we are mandating to have multiple year commitments so they don't have to worry if they finish their degrees on time. the high think that is extremely likely to happen. there is a strong interest of universities to cover the cost of insurance programs the vast majority cover those today but it should be quite clear no athlete would have to cover the cost of insurance or injuries that are inflicted as a student athlete. finally to address the issue of time the demands placed

in my eyes and in the eyes of many and i suspect mr. bradshaw, both men and women with what is required for regular coaching, informal coaching coaching, simply to be competitive is two grades of the time to me and. i completely agree with mr. ramsay to find ways they can take advantage of internships or study abroad of things that help prepare them for life because of very tiny fraction will ever play professional sports but virtually all college players zaleski ms. the last game in college that is not a professional life but that will change with a meaningful degree and experience is to go along with that. we have to create opportunities for what is available on campus.

>> mr. bradshaw you bring a unique perspective to take care of the well-being of your student athletes and i am told it was your practice to conduct exit interviews that sometimes lead to changes in policy how programs can be improved you have an example the way it addresses the needs of student-athletes? >> as soon as these are not the most shy people in the world and if they let you know, when they are hungry and when they needed thing so those were invaluable because seniors are leaving will also follow-up with questionnaires one month before they left and went over those with the student-athletes to talk about every facet of their

experience at the university. that was helpful we also had a captain's council an aggregate of all the captains from every team without the coaches just to hear everything they had to say about their experience to use that with recruiting to do a better job. we also have team meetings to welcome the freshmen and gather input. we had one team the practice facility was 25 minutes from campus when they got back in the evening they could not get the quality dinner because the students had been there and things were picked over so we could extend that time for the meals for one hours of astuteness half -- student athletes could eat in football players -- some

courses were write-up against their practice we could get the coach to take those practices in the morning when 97 percent of the class is were there. into it is rated straight from the athletes. >> my time is expired but from the athletic director standpoint what rule - - tool to cvs love -- of a director play? there is a lot of flexibility to allow the member institutions with the best interest of their athletes. >> we should. it is institutional control not only chairman of the board but the athletic directorship it'll be on board to have similar philosophies about how that works. in concert with all these people because sometimes you need funds and a need support from the board and

president. it is important we work together because we're recruiting other student athletes it is a front porch and might not be the most important things that you see but it is the most visible messenger of the brand of university. >> thank you. >> mr. chairman and mr. emmert thank you for testifying i know that you did not have to hand it has been constructive to hear the reforms you have initiated and those that you hope to initiate and it sounds like there is some positive things that are happening relative to the issues for the challenges of the n.c.a.a. and the committee. i want to thank you to follow through on your

commitment to me and others that we have a good solid non theatrical investigation and committee process. we're all on the same page with how can we best preserved the student athlete and thus provide for them and address the challenges we face today with revenue and this is a very constructive effort that we are undertaking. think you for pulling that together. i am hearing from our witnesses said there are many positive things happening and many positive results coming from being a student athlete with opportunities available otherwise they would not get a college experience or education process.

the list of reforms that mr. emmert has said these are his proposals and i think it goes to what we try to accomplish here. scholarship for life as a full and actual cost of attendance, taking some of be the of safety, addressing sexual assaults issues but also the college experience. not limited at just one. academic priorities and support for title mine it is remarkable what has happened with the number of women that can participate. many of those that did not have a chance without a scholarship.

the vast majority of schools weather division to or division three that offer the opportunities is something we want to preserve, improve, i think we have a president of the n.c.a.a. known as a reformer why he was tired and has taken steps already and willing to take significant steps forward for colbert huang dash obviously goes to the question mr. emmert of the 65, was encouraged by your response relative to their interest in addressing these issues. is one thing to say they're willing to do in another to do it. you are the proposal and initiator but they are the decision makers.

i hope over some period of time relatively soon recanted get a positive result from that effort because that is where the major issues fall. but mr. emmert would you give us one more shot at the ability to address what i think goes to the root of the problem but also the solution that the top 65 which are the revenue generators, we don't want to jeopardize the 1,000 better not to put them in a situation they cannot fill title line -- title ix or the sports that give them the opportunity to participate. >> yes. i thank you are asking to of the most important questions and first the recognition

100 years ago when the n.c.a.a. was created as pointed out it had some bad pitches from the white house and congress because of all the challenges of college sports. at that time it was determined college boards should be self government. . . were capable of provides the right -- to make college sports work effectively for young men and young women. we're at a point now where we're going to see yet again whether or not that self-governance system works. i have confidence, because i know most of these presidents as colleagues, and i know their interests and considerations and concerns that that provides me with confidence that they want to move forward on the agendas that i describe plus more in the coming weeks and months.

useful cattle prod, if you will, to make sure that everyone understands that the world is watching. the u.s. senate is watching and everyone is paying attention to what universities are going to do to address these very real and significant issues. i think all of those things combined give me some very positive belief that we are going to wind up in the right place in a matter of months. ve positive belief that we're going to wind up in the right place in a matter of months. if not, we'll have another conversation, and i have no dowd that you and your successoring will make sure for the things they need to and should be doing. >> i just wanted to note he had his tenth grandchild, and i heard he cry --

>> oh, i didn't tell her that. >> we love that. >> a guy who cries over his grandchildren is very cool. >> we like that. >> another form of cartel. >> i have -- i would like to submit an opening statement. your staff has that. >> so ordered. >> as a usc alum, who spoke with pat hayden just before this hearing, i'm pretty sure we usually watch the trojans beat notre dame on nbc, and not espn. sorry, mr. branch. >> the seven points that you brought up of what you say are trying to achieve.

if you have to talk about students having scholarships for like if you have to talk about men and women and having full and actual coverage of their costs is a weakness, because it's something that you don't have today. if you're talking about leading in the area of safety, you're not doing it today. if the ncaa is taking their lead, then they're not doing it today. we can go on, managing times and demands, it means it's not happening today. >> i'll share with you every once in a while, i call that lightning in a bottle. maybe it's --, careful.

>> maybe the stars are aligning, i'm not sure, but needless to say i agree, and that is that we do have jurisdiction in this conference over the ncaa. my question is, if tomorrow there is a bill in the front of the united states senate that would disband the ncaa and for all discussions and hearings that spoke today, give me reasons why i shouldn't vote for that bill. >> i'm happy to. the fact is we've been focused already on the things that aren't happening, but the reality also is that an enormous amount of very, very good things are happening -- >> good, i want to hear those. >> that we haven't talked about. so when we focus on the issues of college sports, the vast majority of them, as many of you have noted, the vast majority of those issues are really focused on men's basketball and

football, as it's played in the top handful of institutions. if you look at bcs football and men's basketball, you are looking at less than 5% of all of intercollegiate@4re9ices. you're missing 95%. for that other 95%, there are very few of those challenges or problems that are occurring. indeed it is serving -- i'm not very good at math in my head, but if it's 95% of 460,000 students, let's say it's 450,000 or 425,000 students for whom this is working amazingly well. they are graduating at a higher rate than the rest of the student body on their campuses. they're graduating as a higher rate of the rest of the students in the united states. yes, we can in fact have a very good learned discussion about how we measure graduate rates, but if you use the federal rate, students in distinguish i greated 1% higher than the

nonathletes on all of our campuses. if you look at men's and women's basketball, if you look at football, the graduation rates, as mr. bradshaw pointed out have been steadily growing for more than 15 years now, each and every year. if you look at african-american men, the african-american men on any given campus have a 9% higher probability of graduating if they happened ton an athlete than if they're not. the fact is that student athletes make very good students. yes, there are many issues that our two former athletes have pointed out very nicely that need to be addressed, but for the vast majority of students, being an athlete also goes along with being a better student and more likely to graduate, and also we believe, though the data is not well done and i just learned that the doctor is working on a study that i think would be very useful. we believe there's good reason to see that they are more successful in life as well overall.

intercollegiate athletics, as you pointed out is a wonderful part of our south and provides extraordinary opportunities for the vast majority of student athletes. i focus my comments on the things i would like to see fixed. you just elaborated on them. no one is giving a guarantee -- most schools are not giving guaranteed four-year commitments. usc has just committed to do that. a handful of others are looking at that, but the reality is that almost no student ever loses their scholarship. >> wasn't that prohibited by the ncaa? >> it was. >> when did that change? >> well, we -- that's one of the things that i will will occur. >> in other words, schools did offer four-year scholarships until the ncaa prohibited.

>> they did, and i have no idea why that was put in the rules. i have nigh own notions, but i don't even know when that occurred. bill -- >> 1974. '73. >> no reason as to why? >> bill, do you know why? >> i really don't know. >> in recruiting, it's not a good idea not to give multiyear scholarships. >> i trust the historian. >> i would like to hear it. >> the historical record was that it was driven by the coaches at the biggest universities precisely the 65 biggest schools, because they wanted more control over their athletes. they are driven to win. you have a better chance of winning if you control the athlete and what time he gets up and how much time he spends in the weight room, so on and so forth. if you can yank their scholarship, then you have more control. >> but you can't do that anymore? >> yes, you can. >> the ncaa in 1973 at the

behest of the big school athletic departments and coaches put in a rule that you could not offer more than a one-year scholarship, in other words guarantees the coaching over that athlete. that survive for four years. they're trying to repeal that law so you could at your option offer more. >> excuse me for offering. it has in fact been repealed. it's one of the first things i insisted on. >> but it lasted for four years at the behest of the same 65 schools that are now proposing to do these reforms that you're talking about. i think they're good, but it's because they can afford them and because the gap has gotten so obscene, they to do it on their own. >> allow me, because this is such an important point. it has not changed. a student athlete right now who, for the reasons of a coach at any time, can revoke that

scholarship so that student is no longer able to stay at the university. dr. emmerit, that's are you right now, right? >> it's variable. >> starting last year, schools were provided the option. in other words this prohibition was repealed so that a school today can offer a multiyear scholarship, and many do. as i jest mentioned, the university of southern california, and indiana, for example, have recently announced that that is precisely what they are going to do is offer full four-year scholarships. many schools have been doing so since the prohibition was lifted. i don't know the extent to which it -- >> but it's not uniform. >> it is most certainly not uniform. >> it's not even the majority of schools. >> senator booker, your turn will come. >> do we need to remind him he is junior on this committee? i think somehow he forgot about it. >> i'm calling on senator mccaskill. >> thank you, i would like to sbefr the roll call of the

institutions who voted to reestablish the one-year rule. afc testify voted in in 2011, that you could have the option of getting a four-year scholarship. the very next meeting, there is an attempt to overrule that decision. they needed a two thirds vote to overrule the decision to go back to the one-year requirement. i think it will be very interesting for the members of this committee to look at the institutions that voted to go back to a one-year requirement in to 2012. they need 62 1/2.. they got 62.12. to go back to the one-year. and i think you'll be surprised. it's counter intuitive. some of the institutions that voted to go back to the one year, like harvard, voted to back to one year. yale was strong, they abstained.

we had institutions like texas all wanted to go back to one year, but then there were smaller schools that wanted to go back to one year. one missouri school did, but the university of missouri did not. i was willing to offer this into the record and i was nervous when i got this, because i was afraid my university might have voted to go back to one year, but it's very telling that in 2012 -- now, i guess my question, dr. emmert, why wasn't this made public at the time? i think most of the universities would be embarrassed if they were publicly called out that they were unwilling to give a four-year scholarship to an athlete. why did it take a request from congress for this roll call for this to ever reach the light of day? i would ask for this list to be made part of the public record. >> so ordered. >> well, the data were made available to all of the membership -- >> i'm talking about to the public. why didn't you put it on the website? >> i'm not debating the fact.

i don't simply know whether it was not put on the website. the debate was very public. it was obviously very disputed case. it's a very interesting debate. i was quite stunned by some of the argumentation. one of the things i didn't mention about change that i anticipate in the coming weeks, mr. branch.ed out something that's part of the olympic movement, olympic tradition now that in the united states that student athletes have to have a very -- not student athletes. olympic athletes have to have a substantial vote and voice in the deliberations of the olympic bodies. i certainly advocate for a model much like that, and indeed the proposal that's going to be voted on in -- later in august will include full representation of students as voting members alongside the presidents and athletic directors on all of the

legislative bodies, but we currently have student athlete advisory committees that we turn to -- >> doctor, that's all great. >> if i might, ma'am, the student athlete advisory committee advised against putting in multiyear scholarships, because they happen to agree with coaches that it was a good incentive for their colleagues to remain engaged. so some universities voted to overturn this because their very own student athlete advisory committee said, no, no, don't give multiyear scholarships, we like one-year scholarships. my point is limply, ma'am, it was quite counter intuitive at many levels. >> fair enough, i would like to talk to the students, because i think they probably felt pressure. i have a hard time imagining any student -- >> i was quis surprised. in one of the responses to one of the letters i sent you, you indicated that you provide an online title ix legal and best practices material and video

classes. my question is, in that material, do you make the recommendation to your institutions that they not be allowed to handle the adjudication of title ix complaints involving sexual assault against student athletes? >> i don't know the answer to that. >> well, we've done a survey. the results came out today. i was shocked to find out that 30% of the division i, ii, and iii schools allow their athletic departments to handle the allegations against their athletes. now, we have a big problem with victims being willing to come forward. i assume you've read the long cover story about the investigation that did not occur with mr. winston at florida state. >> i have. >> that there was no investigation of that allegation. we will never know whether he was guilty or not, because nobody ever investigated because of who he was.

if you're a victim and know your alleged will be handled by the@let sick department by any other student on campus handled in a different system, why in the world would you think the process was going to be fair? >> i read your data this morning, and i was both it sounds like equally surprised and dismayed by that fact. i think the concern you're raising is spot on. i think it creates, first of all, conflicts of interest. i think it creates the kind of enormous apprehension that you are describing right now on the part of a victim as somebody who has spent most of his life on campus and in several jobs, had responsibilities to campus safety whenever i was a president, i had to deal with victims and family members of victims, and people who had suffered egregious harms.

i think this is something that needs to be addressed. >> well, i think that my sen and about whether or not things are made public. i feel for you, because part of me think that is you're captured by those you are supposed to regulate, but then you're supposed to regulate those you are captured by. i could tell whether you're in charge or whether you're a minute a minion to them. the notion that you will say i'll go after this -- i'm -- you know, i don't sense that you feel like you have any control over the situation, and if you have no control, if you're

merely a monetary pass-through, why should you even exist? >> well, i think the -- the reality is that while the issue we are talking about here i don't have a vote on, and i don't get to set those policies, i can certainly set the tone on it, and i can certainly be someone who voices a very loud opinion and says this is not right, this is inappropriate, these are the conflicts that exist when you have a policy and a practice like this on on your campus. when i first took the job, the very first summit i held in indianapolis was a summit on sexual violence, a summit that led to the creation of a working group of experts, not college athletic folks, but of experts from across the country to create a working group and a think tank. we'll be issues the results of their work this summer, i'm now, thanks to your work, gull to go and make sure this issue is addressed in that handbook, and

i'm going to talk to the leadership at our very next meeting in august that we need to find ways that athletic depends are not responsible, because of all the concerns that you raise. >> thank you. i'm over my time. i hope somebody else covers the questions about young people from families that can't afford to even travel to see their children play in the games. >> yes. >> because meanwhile, the universities are making millions off their children, but their parents can't even get a stipend to attend the game to watch their child play. there is something wrong with that scenario. and it's going on college catch puss across this country every single week. >> i agree with you. thank you. i want to start with -- which is the coach for the for the coach

who has epilepsy. as you know, had a number of seizures, and the university of minnesota president said we're not going to get rid of him. our record has been rocky, the gophers, they kept the coach on. he had to coach from a box, he couldn't coach on the field because of his condition. during the entire season he coached from a box, and i was there when we beat nebraska with him in a box. it was a great moment. it was a great story, but it does make me think, as i hear all of this, that that kind of compassion, what was so captivating about the story is it kind of defied what had been become of so many of these big sports games and the cutthroat competition and how people were treated. so i think what you're hearing up here today is the hope that these are deliverables, these are things that can happen, when you talk about changing the

sexual assault policy, making sure the players have the health care insurance, making sure thif the time to do the internships. they aren't crazy hard things to do. that we have another hearing, whether it's six months from now or a year from now to check up on what's happening with these things whether they're at the high school level. i know that senator tom udahl co-sponsored his bill. i know there's a lawsuit that's going on, just your opinion of

it, but if you could talk about what's being done. >> i think it's a critical issue and most heavy ily identified. it occurs in virtually every sport. first of all, as i had mentioned in my opening comments, we created -- when i first came into the office, i was a business sprited to find there wasn't a cheef medical officer, so when we went out, we hired a wonderful doctor who is a neurologist. he's working unbelievably hard. we don't have good signs, it's not as well understood as we all might think.

so once they have done that, just this past handful of days they released the first ever consensus among the medical community on the treatment and the prevention of concussions, especially around football, a new football practice guidelines around contact and a variety of other things. we signed with the department of defense about two months ago, an agreement to do a $30 million project. we're putting up $150 million, dod is putting up there 15 million to attract longitudinally young men and women and try to get a legitimate history of the occurrence and treatment of the concussion. we're working with the youth -- all of the youth sports organization to try to get better practice guidelines working with the envelope to try to get coaching, efully in people, and boys how to tack

the -- so girl soccer coaches are saying we need to ban any heading until girls and boys are at least 12 years of age. so we're looking at trying to lend our support to those kinds of efforts. we're making -- pardon the pun -- headway, but the factser we need a lot more understanding of where this disorder. i'm pleased where we are, and i'm proud. >> part of the reason why i stopped playing in the nfl to pursue medicine and go into a particular special of neurosurgery was because i saw a lot of my teammates with early onset dementia or some of these traumatic -- things you often associate with several concussive episodes. i saw it in the nfl, and now as an aspiring neurosurgeon, i would love to add expertise to that discussion, but one thing i noticed in the locker rooms was a lot of my teammates, fellow athletes, we want to be fast,

right? wrept to be quick, nimble, agile, so the protective equipment we wear, a lot of the guys would choose and select equipment that's lighter and maybe not as protective. so that may lead to more concussive episodes. i think education is incredibly important. and talk to us about the dangers of concussion. and then if you have a risk of getting a second concussion, your likelihood of getting a third, fourth and fifth goes up exponentially. the pressures of trying to be on the field, trying to compete, all at the same time as devin said, earlier if you're not on the field, nfl coaches can't see you, you're not exposed, perhaps you lose the opportunity of getting drafted high and getting to the next level.

>> it's just to perhaps change the culture, change the focus of big coalition high velocity hits, and the idea that that is a part of the game. it is not a part of the game. if you look at the rule book, it's to take a player to the ground similar to how rugby is performed, but you see the highlights and exposure on the big high velocity hits where guys are speering into another player. that's what gets celebrated, and i think that's the wrong path. as i said, hopefully in a few years or so, i can add more knowledge to this discussion, but from my anecdotal knowledge, it is an issue. >> i'll ask questions on the record of the internships of you mr. ramsey. i thought that was fascinating, on what a small proportion of the student athletes end up going into pro sports, that's

most likely not going to be their career. they have to have that ability to pursue, and if it's supposed to be 20 hours, then we have to find some way to measure that and enforce is. to me this hearing so far has been a lot of talk about a lot of things which have been around for anly lo which we all think should be sophomore but they are not solved a man that think there are very clear reasons for its demand that his decision making is flawed, fragile, and useless

decision-making is flawed, fragile and useless. florida, which has -- everybody recruits from florida, they have a law that transparency, how money is spent, has to be made public, because they have a law. and so, you know, in the contributions and when ncaa comes in, only a small portion goes to education and all kinds of things go to the stadium, that is all available to the public. so i commend them for coming from a state like that, and i just think that's the path with so many answers, which we just otherwise seem to be unwilling to deal with. excuse me. >> well, thank you, mr. chairman. and i think a lot has come out

of this committee hearing that should enable and help dr. emmert to continue with the reforms that he's trying. so much has been said, let me highlight a couple. >> i happy to know, because i was mesmerized with mr. rolle as a player at florida state. for hi to do the interview for the rhodes scholarship, which was in the south, on a saturday, his president t.k. weatherall had to get special dispensation so that they could get someone to donate a private jet for him that could fly him somewhere in the northeast when florida state

was playing up here, and even so, he made it only in the second half. but the emphasis -- you know, that's something that's so common sense that you would want a player to interview for the rhodes, and yet it was a big deal. it shouldn't have been. the fact of so of of these players that are coming from families that are dirt poor, and they don't have the opportunities that others do it seems to my it's common sense, we should have sometime ends or whatever you call it, so it equalizes the playing field of the financial ability if those student athletes are contributing to the financial

well-being of that university. so too with health insurance. that all to be common sense. if a player is hurt and that's a career-ending injury, the best of medical care ought to be given to that player and for it to last for some period of time in the future. and of course, consuggestions just add a whole other dimension to this thing. i thought it was very interesting in another committee that i have the privilege of chairing, we did a hearing on concussions, and -- including professional athletes they would not recommend to their children that they play football.

so times are changing. the ncaa has got to get with the times. so whatever this committee hearing has done to enible you as a reformer to get those schools the votes that you need to do a lot of these things that we're talking about, the family travel why should they have to sneak around in the shadows in order to get money to be able to buy a ticket to come to the game and where to stay in a hotel and so forth? i mean, it just -- it defies common sense. mr. rolle, you want to make any final comment? >> sure. one thing that i'd like to say is that when you think about the

collarship discussion, a lot of players i was on teams with, it was kind of like it was us versus them. we didn't feel like the ncaa was protecting our best interests, was looking out for us, one to see us succeed and thrive and flourish. it was almost as if we had to do everything we could to promote ourselves and better ourselves against this big machine that was dictating and ordering the steps we took. maybe that's not true. maybe it's just a miscommunication, maybe the information wasn't getting disseminated well enough, but that's the way we felt. another thing that's why bothersome today, going back to the economic struggles a lot of my teammates come from poor areas in florida, and come as the first person in their family to be a college student. they don't have a lot of other money to lead back on, so that

leaves them open to unsavely things, these are agencies, nfl runners who would knock on our dorm doors, and say, i can take you out to a nightclub, i can buy you a meal, i can give you a suit to wear, i can take you and your girlfriend out to eat and they accept it, because they don't have much else, then they become ineligible, and they have no future because they have a black mark or just don't play anymore, so think end up back in liberty city or polk county, and it's frustrating and discouraging. i saw it often. >> that is the exact example that we need to use. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator nelson. i apologize. you could have run for the

senate ten years ago. >> i don't want to be disrespectful to senator blumenthal who i think was here before me earlier. no? >> i will ask my questions now only because i have to preside, and if you would yield for five minutes, i would really appreciate it. >> i've already been put in my place once. i will yield. >> yeah, but you're bigger than i am. so -- [ laughter ] >> let me thank you, mr. chairman, for having this hearing, which very sincerely i think is a very important one or a significant for the future of academic institutions. i want to thank all of the folks who have come to enlighten us and thank you to senator nelson. and i want to begin by saying, for what it's worth, i think the law here is heading in a very

unfortunate direction. as dr. emmert and i have discussed, i think the law is heading in the direction of regardi regarding athletes at university more and more employees that is because of the growing asymmetry and energy, time, sweat, blood injury that is involved. that is classically the reason why labor law protections have applied to individuals who on potentially are victims of exploitation. or construction sites. so i think the challenge is to dim minutic and truly -- and

therefore the laws will move to and i say that with regret, because i too, as dr. emmert has articulated well value the student athlete model rather than the employee/employer model, but the more the reality is that athletes in effect function as employees, the more the law will recognize that fact. my opinion is worth what you're paying for it. i'm just a country lawyer from connecticut, but i sincerely believe that that's the direction of the law. i want to first ask you, astonished and deeply troubled by the revelation that athletic

departments on many campuses investigate -- i would like your commitment that you will work to change that practice as soon as possible and as effectively as possible. >> you have my commitment. i obviously want to understand the data more. i simply read a summary. i'm not sure what the facts are on those campuses. as i said earlier, the data that senator mccaskill's staff brought forward was shocking to meivities i am shocked and outraged by you apparent practice on many campuses with the effect of revictimizing survivors who may be in effect victims. . i want to focus for the moment on health insurance. you know, individual colleges and the ncaa made billions on

the talents of these young men and women, and i want to ask you, couldn't they offer health insurance for athlete for a certain amount of time after they leave college? that seems imminently fair. so i would ask for your commitment that you will work towards providing for health insurance for these needs and injuries that may extend beyond their playing years on campus or even professional settings, and i'd like to know what more -- assuming you are committed to that charge, what more you can do to encourage schools to provide this kind of coverage for its student athletes? >> yes, sir. well, today the coverage that exists right now is provided either by the campus itself or

by the student athlete's family, depending upon university policies at most of the high resource schools, they provide the insurance so the student doesn't have to. we need to do several things. wen, in my opinion, we need to make sure there aren't co-payment requirements of a young man or woman, especially from a low income family, and suddenly they have an injury with a $2,000 or $5,000 co-payment, since it was a sports-related injury, so we need to make sure we don't have many of those circumstances out there. we have right now at the ncaa level catastrophic insurance, so if there is long-term disability issues. if there are injuries that require treatment over the course of a lifetime, there is a policy in place. we have some individual that have been on the policy for 20 or more years. we have taken a number of steps

to make sure -- that policy doesn't kick in until you have $90,000 worth of bills. we need to make sure that, to your point -- i'm saying yes, i guess, senator, you have my commitment. there are complexities in all of this we need to work through, but i agree with you that no one should have to pay for an injury they suffered as a student athlete. >> thank you. i welcome and accept your yes to both the sexual assault and the insurance questions. i would ask further for your commitment to work with us on sensible legislation that will impose a higher level of responsibility in both areas. thank you. >> certainly. >> thank you, mr. chair. >> go ahead. thank you, mr. chairman. first of all, i'm grateful, we talked about this in my first days as the united states senator, this was an issue you wanted to cover, and you saw my excitement for doing that. a lot of that stems from i was

back in the '90s an ncaa division i football player. i want to first say, it's very important for me to say, i probably wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for that experience. i am deeply grateful. i joke all the time i got into stanford because of a 4.0, and 16 yards receiving yards in my high school year. and had lifetime experiences frankly that i could never, ever replace. it opened up extraordinary doors for me. so we could have a hearing that could go on for hours if not days about all the good things that are happening with the ncaa, so please forgive me if i'm not giving that appropriate light. what concerns me and what you and i have talked about chairperson for quite some time are the egregious challenges we have. i want to publicly thank dr. emmert, he was gracious not only to come here, which he did not have to do, but took special time to come see me as a former

athlete to sit down and hear my concerns. i was taken aback that you agreed with me across the board. let me just reiterate those for the record and make sure we are in agreement. so number one, you agree the big problem that athletes don't get scholarships to get a b.a.? >> yes. >> that is a big problem that we have, athletes that pour their lives, 40, 50 hours a week, and then end up having gone through their eligibility, but don't have a b.a. that is a problem? >> yes. >> you agree it's a problem that we have athletes, often very poor coming onto college campuses restricted from working, they can't shovel driveways for extra pending money, can't meet the needs of travel, can't buy toiletries, clothesing, if they're restricted from working, you know that's a problem we have to address? >> a minor correction, not banned from working. they can in fact work, and in many cases do, but the biggest

challenge is they simply haven't the time. >> so in other words they can't work because of whatever reason, you know that's the problem that the scholarship does not cover the full costs at the same time they're being expected, whether by law or not, to work 40, 50, 60 hours a week. >> completely agree. >> that's a problem. >> you agree it's a problem with the health coverage is inadequate and that we have people, many of whom i know and you know, who have blown-out knees, and even though they have graduated now, they're having to go into the pockets for co-pays and the like to deal with medical injuries that were occurred, really the root was the challenges they had when they were a athlete? >> i agree the insurance today is much better than most people think, but there's certainly areas that need to be closed. >> and it's costing some athletes thousands into their lifetimes. >> yes. >> you agree there's a real problem still with time, that as the two@lease at the end of the table, it's not just the practice time, guys, how many

hours would you get your ankles taped, treatments? an hour? two hours? sometimes three hours, depending on how bad the injuries? we have athletes putting in upwards of 60, 70 hours a week, that's a problem? >> a huge problem. >> you agree that there is a -- at least an issue that hag to be dealt with to improve with the issue of sexual assault, it has to be improved in the way we investigate? >> yes, and i think the way we educate young men and women, and the way we educate people on campuses to handle those issues. >> right. this we didn't cover, so it might not be a simple yes or no, but in terms of the due process, when a young man like mr. ram say, not even know had had to get a lawyer, not even getting help, there are breakdowns in process that are not clear. could you say that process could be improved? >> it certainly could, especially on most campuses, yes. >> i guess i just turn to you,

mr. chairman not having to go through more rounds of deeper questioning, to just say clearly, this is my problem. this was a challenge for when i was an athlete, some 20 years ago, and athletes after athletes are going through and facing what i consider the exploitation of athletes? let me be very clear. it is exploitation when you have an athlete working 60, 70 hours a week, yet still not able to afford the basic necessities. not just having your parents fly back and forth, but being put in horrible situations, where they see their jersey with their name on it being sold, making thousands and thousands of dollars, but they can't even afford to get the basic necessities of life. and if they try to sell their jersey for 50 bucks, they get penalize. that's exploitation of an athlete. to me it's exploitation when you give your body -- yes on the

end, hound linemen do you know today that played with you that have gone through four, five, six surgeries for their knees? a lot. and if they're going into their own pocket after given up their knees to make mills onfor the university, and then the universities aren't even compensating them appropriately, that's an exploitation of a college athlete that has to be addressed. if we have guys like was testified by the two gentlemen on the end, who i know this, because we spernt hours -- we did the math, my teams, because so many players feel an assault on your dignity, that you're putting 70, 80 hours a week, giving up internships, you know more about your playbook. playbook. i can still tell you, stonebreaker. i can tell you more about them because that's what i was studying at night that you spend all of that effort and then, your university is not in any

what, ensuring that you get a degree at the end in something like engineering or political science. that they're not honoring the fact that when you're working fulltime you can't finish your degree in four or five years. when they could lord over you the removal of your scholarship because it still happens. athletes are still exploited. they blow out their knee and if they somehow don't meet the mandates of a coach, they lose their scholarship and they don't get their degree. to me, this is plain and simple, the dark side of the ncaa where athletes are being exploited. and this is why i love the -- occasionally, and you use these words, dr. emrid, you use this as a cattle prod. i wrote it down. i have to move quickly in the ncaa when there's money and

reputation on the table. for example, you mentioned his name, shabaz napier says on the highest victory he says on national tv what we know athletes and what coaches know, is the truth. that some guys don't have the money to buy shaving cream. to eat at night. but he says it on national tv and within seven days because the shame and embarrassment, within seven days the rules changed and guys can actually eat. >> but i'd like to -- >> hold on, i'm already over my time, sir. let me give you another example. cam newton was through the same problems you were at the same time. his eligibility was being challenged, mr. ramsey. a guy that brings millions of dollars into a university and his adjudication happened quickly. yours did not. you're not a named athletes.

so it didn't. so what i want to say in conclusion, mr. chairperson, and really, why i love the tail of respect branches here because similar books of my life about the civil rights movement. when there's a class of individuals who are being exploited and there's millions and millions of dollars being brought in and guys can't even afford health care, cannot afford to finish their degrees, then we have a problem. and i respect dr. emrid and said we'll add that but where is the urgency that this has been going on for decades in america? i don't trust like the supreme court, when they said we're going to integrate schools they said do it with what? with what kind of speed? all deliberate speed and it took them a long time to get around to doing the right thing by people. these aren't just people. these are young people in theites of america. and we can't afford to wait for

all deliberate speed. there's got to be some level of accountability for fast action on things that the head of the ncaa says is a problem. that next season when football season starts, there's going to be kids suffering from the same list of unfair things that somehow, some day, is going to be addressed. so i think we need another hearing with the real rulemakers. college presidents lined up here and ask them how fast they'll address the exploitation of college athletes. mr. chairman, thank you. >> dr. emrid, respond? >> i have a sacred obligation to senator espn. >> thank with you, mr. chairman. i appreciate it. let me just say up front on the issue of athletic departments investigating sexual assault allegations. that is ridiculous. you've got to get in and fix that right away. i'm a proud graduate of the penn state university. and it's obviously, we're -- it

was so troubling and disappointing to see what happened at my university. i love the university but the athletic department is nowhere you happenedle these kinds of allegations so you got to fix that. walk out this door and fix that. what i'm troubled about when i hear the testimony today and i just need to understand, senator blumenthal asked about the change to an employer/employee model. we talked about compensation, potentially for athletes today. i don't want to see any athletes mistreated. i want them to be able to have a quality of life that's important as they serve and get the education and be able to be an athlete the student athlete model. but as i think about for example, what the nlrb did in its ruling, i knnoknow know it applies to private universities but i think about the compensation model, what does this do in terms of the schools where we're not talking about

the top athletes that may go on, that are the nrevenue-again rating sports? what will that do to women's athletics? if we start down the road of a compensation model what h happen in the schools in terms of the schools that -- or the sports that aren't at the top where those athletes? you can sell the jerseys and make money, but are still very important to student life? and when i think about title 9 in women and the opportunities women have gotten because of title 9, if you're on scam puts and this suddenly becomes an employer/employee type of model, what is that do for women's sports if they're not revenue-again rating and how do we sustain them if this model changes? that's a big question but i'd like you to comment on it because the last thing i want to see is for -- i want to make

sure that our @leaathletes are treated well and certainly, what you've done is really inspiring to see what you've done. and thank you, mr. ramsey, as well, for your inspiration and being here. but there's a whole category of athletes that were not quite at your level but are participating in college sports and it's been an opportunity for them to getten education and for women, as well. that are at your level but don't always generate the same amount of revenue and i want to make sure that women still have the opportunity that they've had because of title 9. so if you could comment on that i'd appreciate it. >> i would love to comment on that. i think it's not a zero sum game. if some athletes are profit athletes who have a higher market value than the cost of their grand and aid, then we should treat them differently than athletes who are not profit athletes. it's not either/or or they must

be. if they're employees, as the nlrb found, we should treat them as employees. that does not mean that college athletics or athletes and other sports, women or -- it doesn't -- >> can i tell you -- >> it's not an either/or -- >> doctor, my university said if the unionation rule was applied, university of new hampshire, they feellike this will diminish the athletic program and it will diminish it for women and nonrevenue-aga nonrevenue-generating sports. i understand what you're saying but that's not what i'm hearing from other universities. >> i would say that probably a university president by the name of chicken little, might have been the first one to say that. because the sky will not, in fact, fall. by denying profit athletes just compensation in the market, does not preclude colleges and universities from supporting

intercollegiate athletics as an educational opportunity. if they're employees they should have all the rights of employees. title 9 does not apply in an employee setting. >> i would like to see what mr. bradshaw has to say about what i just said as well. thank you. >> we probably don't have time but i'd certainly like to hear that model that works. i believe it's going to be devastating to all those student athletes including women who don't produce revenue. who aren't seen as -- athletes or student who is create that revenue. i would like to see that model work because as we all know that's going to mean those that can afford to pay for that, will. and those that can't won't. >> thank you. >> again, if i could reiterate and i appreciate the question and i'm trying to articulate it as clearly as i can. if the athletes are, in fact,

employees, then we have a moral obligation and an obligation under the law, to treat them as such. if they're not, it does not preclude them from participating. title 9 does not have to be held hostage by this because we're only talking about 5% of the knl have a distinction. some are employees and some won't? some are student athletes and some aren't? >> they already are employees. so by being opened and honest about what we're using and exploiting these athletes for, honesty is a very good thing. >> so as a woman athlete, if i'm not a revenue-generating athlete i'm not eligible for the employee/employer athlete? >> they already have that. >> that bholt they ares me.

>> we refer to them at nooufr athletes and revenue sports and olympic sports. that's fine. it does not mean that if we compensate athletes according to the market, that everyone else has to go away. that is not what has to occur at all. so if the universities find that that opportunity is very important, they will still support it. they will still support it. i see no way that women's athletics or olympic athletics is going to go away. it's not going to happen. it just isn't. mr. chairman? >> dr. emrid, as i listened to kelly's questions about the cost structure and the likely impact of creating some unions or some employees and some not employees, they ultimately, the

cost structure itself would have impact in universities and have impact in athletic programs. i just wonder how significant that impact would be. and let me say this before you answer the question so you can think about your answer. to mr. suddall, good to have you here from columbia, south carolina, i would be remiss if you went to the right place, the gamecocks, ilike that a lot, being a south carolina fan myself. my story is very different than cory's story and these road scholars on the end who have done very well academically and i'm proud to see your success off the field as well as on the field. i'll say my story, i think, really plays an important part of why i'm asking the questions about the cost structure. i'm a kid that grew up in a single-parent household. had it not been for football i wouldn't have been able to go to college football at all. i played come football for a

year and i earned a christian leadership 'scholarship and i realize that the responsibilities and the burden of before and after and the labs and the challenges i face and made a decision to go a different route but the fact of the matter is had it not been for the scholarship opportunity i would not be sitting here today because i wouldn't have had the opportunity to even start my education so when i think about -- and i went to a small school, presbyterian college, so when i think about the cost structure of this conversation on athletes that are not in those top tier schools, there's a significant unintended consequence i think we're looking at that kelly really brought to the surface that's hard to deny and, perhaps, even harder to figure out how to fix it. >> well, i happen to agree with you. i think that the implications of converting student athlete model to an employee/employer model

would utterly transform college sports into something that doesn't begin to look like what it looks like the impact -- with all due respect, i completely agree with doc her southall's idea of this. if you think they look at the definition of an employee provided by one nlrb administrator, that if a student has received a scholarship additional benefits, that is compensation. if they are working for the student had fully today are their academic work, then they are working if they are subject to the oversight of a coach. i'm not a labor lawyer, but that isn't separate definition of a student athlete. that would apply to virtually every student-athlete that has a scholarship. man, woman, doesn't matter. the difference between a women's

basketball player and men's basketball player is not the men's basketball player works harder. it isn't that they are more or less talented. the only difference is a single difference and that is there's more people of the stands. that is it in terms of time commitment, competitiveness, everything. the difference is one place in front of a lot of people and one doesn't. the difference between volleyball soccer is the only difference in whether they play on tv or not. sallis dr. southall pointed out, title ix has nothing to do with employee come and play relationships. title ix has nothing to do with any student-athlete fits nonemployee come including woman saslow player. it would be an irrelevancy. >> quick question. i know you played sports a couple years ago, five or seven years ago. i can't read my notes.

i think it says four or five. not 45. my question is you had a lot of experience have looked at the opportunity as well as the challenges that come from multiple angles, what kind of progress have you seen over the last three decades or so as we wrestle the future challenges and present challenges, said as soon as the we've made along the way. >> certainly all of us think we can do better. there's no question about it. we spent our time talking about how we can be better at not patting ourselves on the back. as a former assistant coach back in the day and head coach student-athlete that it's night and day the changes come in the quality of physicians, trainers, i mean, we didn't know what a dietitian was a student athletes or head coach. the changes are enormous. they are compelling and one of

the things i would recommend is the would recommend if you get some student-athlete to talk to. there's a balance. obviously there's out liars. there's horrible stories that have happened and none of those is too many. whether assault for date or whatever it might be, i would love to see a panel for student athletes come in and take about everything, a balance of that. it's been significant. i'm retired now. i can talk about it objectively and not be concerned about a college president or faculty or board of trustees is just an incredible profession we are written. the changes we are trying to make and marx got to with those. he's got to do with the institutions in the college president on the board of trustees and when you want to bring the president in here. the changes that i've have been

particularly in the last decade. >> as you look at the opportunity for collective bargaining and its impact on the academic environment, realizing most institutions, darn near all institutions, the primary objective is to cultivate an environment conducive for academic achievement. how do you see the impact of the collective bargaining opportunity, though i have concerns that the personal and college campuses in the impact on the academic environment. her d.c. one. >> thank you, sir. >> i know the question you want to an answer most of those

questions that i know you feel a duty to ask the question that there isn't going to be a second round. atlanta make a closing statement and a 5:15 we will be through this very long hearing. i want to say this. i have two impressions. one of them is superficial and the other is worrisome of this hearing. i want each of you to either agree or not agree with me as kind of your closing statement. but on one level this has been an open conversation. he brought up all kinds of issues. those issues have been discussed to a small degree or a large degree. both my real feeling from this hearing is we haven't accomplished much.

and people have laid down their protective -- not talking about you two gentlemen, but that there is sort of a self protection mode either for oneself or on behalf of those others. your point about getting the board of trustees and there would be kind of interesting because they do have a big influence over college presidents. all i know coming out of this hearing that i don't think i've learned anything particularly with the exception of an dose that i haven't been hearing for 50 years. which is how long i've been in this business. there is progress on concussions and of course there and of course there's progress in other things. but is it in any way in, 10

ineffective progress what we've been doing with all of us including this committee and this congress by not exercising our oversight rates. ahead of the ncaa at one point said one of the first things i did was to make sure -- i forget the example, but it was the statement i got something done. i don't believe that. i think that the system is rated so that you are separated of the possibilities of getting something done except as you testify or you probably couldn't write articles. you probably would get blowback on that. but i don't think you have the power and i think it is constructed for that purpose. i am cynical about it. it is too easy to complain in

senate hearings about -- or any other kind of forum what progress has been made. of course there is always progress made come of it doesn't keep up with what needs to be done? the answer is absolutely not. this country is now so soaked in the culture of the espn plus i guess a couple of other stations and watching football, baseball, world soccer, all the rest of it. i mean, i think -- my own view is that it's undermining our values. i will tell you one thing for sure. it is undermining our commitment to education. dr. southall, you are talking about the different ways of

jiggering the students who are not athletes actually doing a better job academically than those who aren't. it was said that the ncaa that was true. i don't believe that. i just don't believe it. i may be wrong, the different formulas you use is really interesting to me is something i'd like to know more about. to me it has been in since an important hearing, but not one which points to progress. they're going to go right -- i don't think a bunch of others are go back to doing what they do. we got that one out of the way. no harm they are. nobody did themselves any great damage. congress doesn't usually follow

through. congress doesn't get that much done. that happens to be true the last three or four years. and then there's always the question of getting people from either trustees for heads of colleges and universities from states and members here: related to that might not want to have that happen. i mean, the world works in ways that protects itself. but this is a particularly ugly one. the question of himelfarb six and i voted for the department of dissents. i think that is ridiculous. i pass what i didn't want to pass by a margin. it was not a great margin. so yes, that is progress. so what we want to do is get

there. i don't have the feeling that we are on that path. i think this hearing symbolizes you might be, but the substance is that we probably won't be. react to that. anybody who wants to and then i'm going to close the hearing. >> well, senator, i think some differences, and there are big differences here between talking about the way things work and how to reform and the whole underlying structure. frankly, some differences have been diminished. i agree wholeheartedly with one thing sad, which is a lot of these economic restrictions in the ncaa rule, if they were vacated or abolished or somehow vacated for athletes as they were for coaches, it wouldn't

make a particle of difference for 90% of athletes. and i believe were a small division iii school would evil to ask for a better health coverage or a salary and the university, the school would be free to laugh at them and say we don't do it. go somewhere else. just like the piccolo players that they want to be paid to march in the ban. the schools are free to bargain my way, but it would make an enormous difference in precisely the 65 schools we are talking about whether his gigantic money is gigantic money of the notley can bargain and recruit for better health care coverage for more time to study for a longer scholarship. it would change things because right now the model is that the schools do that solely at their dissertation. they usually want to give money out of their own pocket to players like its hip because they don't have enough money to

eat. a model that recognizes that these athletes are trained to manage to very demanding careers that one better in separate spheres is a step forward. the least hopeful thing i've heard today is that we are looking to the same 65 schools that are the most commercialized in reform and the ncaa. i really don't see that. make it higher compensation. they gave more attacks, but they create these problems in the first place and i don't think the big schools are going to do anything other than be driven more and more by the market and athletics and quite frankly those schools exploit their athletes both as players and students. i go around to all of these big schools and the athletes tell me they are pushed in to certain majors that are easy and not allowed to take certain courses.

the thing to me i think some differences are outlined and may be diminished, but i don't see the big 65 schools as an engine for much reform in the future because their record doesn't show that. >> any other comments? >> iodized before -- >> i know, you want about mr. emmert reply to everything. >> now, i think he deserves the opportunity to do that. when someone takes an extra five minutes and is passionate, but he levels and accusations at the ncaa. i think he's deserved to be responding to that. >> you have a chance to do that. i bent over backwards, invite some of my members to give you a break because you come from indiana were ncaa quarter and i

have done not. >> well, i don't think you gave me a particular break. that's the normal procedure. >> you made it very clear to me on the floor that you wanted to be the first one to ask the questions and i said that's okay, clear up with senator thune. i am not going to bend on that. this is the closing statement and mr. emmert is free to answer in any form he wants. anybody else want to say anything? >> i've spent the last 15 years of my professional career examining in a collegiate let x. and after this hearing today, i like yourself and very disheartened because i am not sure that we collectively are willing to take a cold hard

objective look informed by research and informed by data at the collegiate model of athletics. >> already. that being said, i want to thank everybody for this. this has been a long and interesting hearing. everything is a first step is near armstrong said. we've got a lot of steps to make them as others have pointed out, the world is changing. you know, it's like a jackie robinson, 42, movie and the player comes in and says i want to be treated. in a couple weeks later he comes back and says i don't want to be traded. you want to play with robinson? he says look, the world is changing and i can change too. there is an element of that were the progress has its own very

teeth, its own duties and i think there has been progress. my question is in my entire adult life i've been hearing about this and they're still so many problems called into question the way decisions are made and carried through within the upper ranks of the football and basketball community. that is on my mind and i'm chairman so i'm going to say that anamosa going to say that is the last thing i will say in this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] >> in a related story, the university of notre dame is under investigation on charges that three of its football players may be involved in academic fraud.

the school has only been placed on probation by the ncaa once before in the 299. [inaudible conversations] >> it is uncapped.

we are authorized to pay as much money as is required through the processing of eligible claims. the bankruptcy of gm is no barrier to compensation. if there were accidents that occurred before the bankruptcy, they are as eligible as accidents that occurred after the bankruptcy. there are some people who already settled their claims years ago with general motors and signed a release that they won't sue. they can come into this program. and if under our compensation rules they are entitled to additional compensation, they will be paid. the contributory negligence of the driver, speeding, cell phone texting while driving, intoxication, and relevant. we are not looking at the driver

or the circumstances of the drivers negligence. we are looking at the automobile and only at the automobile to determine whether or not the defect of ignition switch was the proximate cause of the accident. >> more supreme court oral arguments now from this past term. today we're featuring the case of national labor relations board versus scanning with the constitutionality of some of president obama's recess appointments. we'll get to that world argument in a morning. first, some background. >> in january 13, 2014 come supreme court heard oral argument in the case nlrb v. noel canning. their challenge of a one of the national labor relations board regarding collective-bargaining, an agreement with some of its workers. we are joined by mcclatchy washington michael

correspondent, mike doyle. but it we going to hear quite >> this is all about the internal struggle between the legislative branch and the executive branch. in particular, the senate of the united states challenged whether the white house had properly appointed during a senate recess three members of the national labor relations board, a company the board have ruled against that it was an invalid decision because these numbers were never legally part of the board in the first place. >> it's a little bit of a roundabout case. you have to unpack the details. there is this bargaining -- collective bargaining agreement and the parallel issues of these appointees. >> like a lot of, the underlying facts are relevant to the constitutional question that day. the merits or demerits of the argument we can set aside. this is all about two things. the court is facing the question of what is the senate recess and what is the vacancy to be

filled? they have to decide whether this vacancy being filled met the constitutional requirements of the recess appointment clause. >> this would seem to be the kind of case for the court had political impact in terms of appointees. >> it absolutely does. there's a lot of eyes on this case because if the court had taken a certain direction with its final decision, that could invalidate literally hundreds of decisions and board appointments. >> let's look at the world argument, the case nlrb v. noel canning. >> really your argument versus one indicates 121281 national labor relations board hearses noel canning. >> mr. chief justice, may i please the court? the interpretation of the cause that respondent urges would repudiate the constitutional legitimacy by presidents going back to george washington and going forward with diminished

presidential authority in a way that is flatly at odds with the constitutional structure of the framers established. respondents simply have not advance a compelling case that would be needed to strip residents of their traditional authority to make appointments during intercession recesses into so preexisting vacancies. >> ec would repudiate the constitutionality of appointments. you don't suggest the actions of those appointees would be invalid going back however far you want to go back, do you? >> now, i don't mr. chief justice. it certainly would repudiate the legitimacy of those appointments. >> how many poor decisions will have to be redone? how was the board working with that problem? >> there's many poor decisions perhaps hundreds that are under a cloud as a result of the d.c. circuit ruling in this case. said the board will have a

considerable amount of work to do it the d.c. circuit decision were to be affirmed. now there would be issues about waiver. there will be issues about whether there is authority sufficient to justify what the board did under other circumstances. ballad i'll have to be sorted out in respect to the board's ruling. >> was happening under the reasoning of this case? what would happen to the decisions of recess appointed judges? there's quite a few. >> that would be a very serious question, justice sotomayor. it does point out the difficulty with which the respondent is urging. >> sure you would argue the dough -- >> of course you would. >> we've applied that in innumerable cases. you don't think we are going to rip out every decision made. >> i would certainly hope not,

your honor. a classic cloud over those actions and does point out to the recess power during intercession recesses in the preexisting vacancies has been used to sell offices of great importance. >> you started off by saying, you know, it would repudiate so many actions that have been taken. i have a very stark question. suppose i agree with the court of appeals that the only interpretation of the constitution is that the vacancy must have the recess by hypothesis i agree with that. what do you do when there is a practice that flatly contradicts a clear text of the constitution. >> i think the practice has to prevail, your honor. >> if you ignore the