>> emotionally i am on edge on this whole subject. i am on edge. the product whose popularity has recently been soaring including and especially among young people. we will hear today from the tobacco companies but whether they call themselves marketing to adults which i will find an amazing answer. e-cigarettes are battery operated products that vaporize a liquid containing nicotine. we all remember is that, don't we? eight people with their hands raised. we note cigarette and e-cigarette eyes somewhat different but nicotine is nicotine. little kids are little kids. they are looking for things, they are looking for things they

see a loss in advertising. one of the nice things that mimic the act of smoking. is school, kids are cool. these products are relatively new and long-term health effects are unknown at this point which raises the question why in heaven's name are you going ahead and marketing these things and selling them and putting them on line when the results of health studies which have been done seriously are still out. why would you do that? you want to make money. that is your answer. you tell me you're just talking to adults but you are not, you want to make money so you plunge in, get what you can and studies come out and you go ahead and do it until the fda put some nice rules and regulations on you. these products are relatively new and their long-term health

effects are unknown however they do indicate they do deliver nicotine and is a highly addictive substance. nicotine can affect brain development. among young kids lose some people claim e-cigarettes can help adults quit smoking combustibles cigarettes. others are concerned they may reduce quitting by encouraging do will use of e-cigarettes with combustible cigarettes. but we have not done enough research yet. to resolve this question. that is not the focus of this hearing. instead we are going to focus on how marketing of -- excuse me, e-cigarettes reaches america's use and what effect this may

have. since generations of cigarette users became a addicted to nicotine it only makes sense to be concerned about whether e-cigarettes could get young people on a similar path to addiction. addiction under any form i think is a bad thing. we figure may be 4,000 kids in west virginia are affected by this badly. the last thing anyone should want to do is to encourage young people to start using a new nicotine delivery product. the last thing. research isn't in, not sure what the long-term or short-term health consequences are but there's an opening in the market so let's get in and make as much as we can because there are no regulations. that is our fault, i apologize for that and welcome the distinguished senator. if you put western virginia and south dakota together you have

approximately 72% of the united states territories. health experts are sounding several alarms on these virtually unregulated products. in addition to the issue of nicotine addiction, e-cigarette recalls that are related cause poison control centers to be very much on the rise. particularly involving children and particularly involving children under the age of 5, yes, 5. some studies indicate taxes other than nicotine may be found in e-cigarettes. we don't know that. we don't know if the answer is yes, partially or not at all. we don't know. so we hold off until we know.

then we go ahead. some have chosen a very different course. given the health concerns and lack of data substantiating health benefits, it is imperative to restrict use exposure to e-cigarettes. simply stated children and teens should not be guinea pigs as we await more conclusive research. i do not understand that. i do not understand the corporate view on that, making more money is a wonderful thing but making money with something like this where you don't know what the results are, but you do know what those results are with nicotine in cigarettes, it does not reflect well on corporate america. unfortunately awareness and use of e-cigarettes by use has been surging so please consider the

following. between 2011, and 2012, i count that to be one year, e-cigarette use among u.s. teens more than doubled. 1,800,000 kids tried these products and a study found that awareness of e-cigarettes among use is virtually ubiquitous. i guess that means they have to see stuff somewhere like advertising, may be television, maybe newspapers, may be magazines, may be lots of it. so we will talk about that. the growth in use awareness a use of ease cigarette -- e-cigarettes has flooded the e-cigarette marketing activity. a report published in the journal of pediatrics found use the exposure to e-cigarette advertising on television

increased 256% in two years. that is kind of like everybody involved in the results are out on the health surveys. just go, go for that dollar. 256% increase. extraordinary. and american legacy foundation report found last year 14 million teens saw e-cigarette advertising on tv, 9.5 million saw print ads. so while major e-cigarette companies reiterate they only target adults, a large u.s. audience still appears to be getting their message pretty loudly and pretty clearly and particularly when they came the message in tv and magazines and social me at an events which

really come down hard towards kids. good morning. you can wish me a happy birthday. to look more closely at this issue i joined a group of senators and representatives including senator durbin who is going to be here and is going to speak, and committee colleagues like senator boxer, senator blumenthal and senator markey, an investigation done leading e-cigarette manufacturers about their marketing practices. the results of this inquiry and that was all it was were troubling. the joint report we issued this april concluded e-cigarette manufacturing was aggressively promoting their products using techniques and then use that appeal to you if -- youth -- you

have to overlook that a lot of adults would not go to what you are targeting. includes youth oriented sports events, handing out free product samples. that is really nice. free product samples. that is neutral. nothing aggressive about that. nothing about enticing the money flow to pick up in that. using celebrity spokespeople, god rest their souls. airing television ads during programs that reach large youth audiences. using social media without imposing age restrictions, and

marketing e-cigarettes in flavors that appeal to children. as an adult would i be attracted to cherry crush, chocolate treat, peachy cream, no, i wouldn't. 60 years ago i probably would have been. that is the way it works. the dollars flow in. this review provided just a snapshot of activities of nine market leaders in this industry but there are hundreds of companies that do this. in the market place. for example beyond the flavors identified in the report for nicotine liquid, marketed and can be found in flavors that include -- no turn on for me. dummy bears. note. that is not a dull stuff. chocolate put see. that is not a dull stuff.

that is aimed at children. products like these sound more like a candy shop display than a means for providing nicotine vapor. it is not hard to see how they would appeal to kids. many practices e-cigarette companies are using to pitch their products are prohibited under measures including the comprehensive 2009 family smoking prevention and tobacco control act which passed it is the law but these do not currently apply to e-cigarettes. loophole in the lock. a chance to rake in cash, worry about the kids later. 4,000 kids in west virginia, it is that important or not? to me it is. to the companies they might not

be looking at that. it is worth noting the tobacco control law was enacted following years and years of litigation that uncovered internal tobacco company documents showing despite claims they only promoted their products to adults the industry had targeted young people as a critical market. of course you have. that is where the money is, that is where the buying is, that is where the cash in your pocket and 12, 8, 14, out you go. you could hold one of these things and look like gloria swanson. is that her name? in april, fda proposed rules to regulate e-cigarette but these rules could take a long time making them complete. meanwhile the e-cigarette

industry is booming and tobacco companies with a history of marketing cigarettes have been jumping into the market. i don't know how many. day per week, i just don't know but a lot. as the e-cigarette industry continues to evolve, we need to hold companies something called accountable, accountable. that is an american tradition. gm is finding out about that. toyota found out about that. and encourage kids to start using e cigarettes before the health effects really are. don't wait for what you might be getting into, what harm you might be doing, but jump in now and maybe congress and fda will be as they always are, slow so you make a lot of money while we

are sorting this all-out. then again those 4,000 kids in west region yet are not at the top of your list and because e-cigarettes look so similar to cigarettes we must make sure e-cigarette marketing doesn't undermine decades of work to be normalized smoking for american youth. an area where we are making tremendous progress, enormous progress after a long period of time. in any event i look forward to talking about these issues with major companies represented here today and panels of accomplished experts and now senator thune. >> allow me to add my birthday wishes, happy birthday to you. sorry or stocks spending it with us. mr. chairman, thank you for

these -- holding the hearing and thank today's witnesses for appearing before the committee. according to the who there are 1 billion smokers in the world. sadly in one year alone more than 5 million of those people will die prematurely due to interact tobacco use. in 1976 professor michael russell, a leading expert on cigarette addiction wrote quote nick people smoke for nicotine but die for tar. the introduction of e-cigarettes which contain nicotine presents new challenges for policymakers, regulators and the public health community. and a new opportunity for increased public health to the extent that these new products may help reduce the number of individuals who smoke combustible tobacco cigarettes. dr. david abrams and the american legacy foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to reducing tobacco use funded

by payments from the masters of agreement between state attorneys general and the tobacco industry in 1998 is called the e-cigarette potentially, quote, disruptive technology able to render the combustion of tobacco obsolete. similarly the director of the food and drug administration's center for tobacco products recently said, quote, we have to have an open mind on the potential for these emerging technologies to benefit public health. a recent study by researchers at the university college in london and the efforts of people to stop smoking found e-cigarettes the 60% more effective than nicotine replacement therapy like nicotine patches or gum. many e-cigarette companies argue their product is an emerging technology and restrictions on e-cigarettes to not follow the science and inhibit future innovation to create safer products for existing smokers. at the same time we need to be mindful that even if e-cigarettes are shown to be less harmful than combustibles cigarettes and nicotine is

addictive and the long-term usage and health effects of these products are currently unknown. opponents of the products believe e-cigarettes are a way to combustibles cigarettes a especially among miners. recent studies have shown with an increase in e-cigarette marketing of awareness is growing and some advertisements whether they are intended to are not are reaching the audiences. in addition to campaign for tobacco free kids represented today by mr. myers identified e-cigarette advertisements that have similar campaign themes as advertisements for combustibles cigarette companies decades ago. this is not necessarily the case for all e-cigarette companies, it raises understandable concerns about targeting of this advertising. there has also been a recent rise in the number of calls to poison centers involving children related to e-cigarettes in the accompanying solution which often contains nicotine and other ingredients. the american academy of pediatrics represented today by

susanne tanski resists packaging on these products. earlier the food and drug administration proposed a will to regulate e-cigarettes with tobacco products. the number of questions being asked about just how these products should be regulated especially how they can or cannot be marketed. given these are relatively new products and given the extent to which they may provide benefits to public health i believe sound science should drive the discussion of federal regulation. i also think we should all agree that children should not be able to purchase these products. my own state of south dakota banned the sale use of e-cigarettes by those younger than 18 years of age and several other states have done the same. i am opposed to smoking in general. i look forward to learning more about the apparent potential of e-cigarettes to reduce harm to current smokers. as with most issues we face in congress i believe more scientific investigation and

thoughtful discussion is needed and mr. ballin will discuss his work with the university of virginia to the start a dialogue on these issues. i would like to end with a quote from dr. thomas blend with the american cancer society whose sums of the current debate surrounding e-cigarettes as follows, quote, as with so many highly celebrated or reviled products their dual nature lies in between which pros and cons to recommend or discourage their use. hopefully we can shed some light on these pros and cons today. thank you again to our witnesses for appearing today and look forward to hearing your testimony. thank you, mr. chairman. >> let's start with dr. tanski. >> i had my birthday wishes. >> please don't. >> i am a practicing pediatrician and associate professor of pediatrics at the school at dartmouth. i am representing the american

academy of pediatrics, professional membership organization of 62,000 pediatricians and chair of this tobacco consortium and conduct research on tobacco and adolescence. ranking members it is my pleasure to be here today to talk about electronic cigarettes. pediatricians have numerous and growing concerns about known and unknown risks and health impacts of e-cigarettes. we are concerned e-cigarettes may lead to a lifetime of nicotine addiction and to serve as a gateway to traditional cigarettes. the aggressive marketing of electronic cigarettes and its impact on youth is worrisome. the evidence is clear that tobacco advertising directly influences youth, use of e-cigarettes is rising dramatically and we believe this increase is clearly linked to unfettered advertising. there's much we don't know about these products but we know enough to sayth . we must act now to protect children against these risks from e-cigarettes. e-cigarettes are devices that provide a solution containing

nicotine flavoring and other chemicals. contrary to claims these products are not without significant risk. nicotine is not a benign substance. it is as a collective 0 with a high level of toxicity and rapid addiction. overdose of nicotine could lead to a court dizziness or seizures and death. it can be absorbed through the skin and comes with workplace safety warnings to handle it with gloves, masks, goggles and protective clothing. 22 is extreme toxicity the lethal dose of nicotine is somewhere between 1 and 13 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. toxic effect would be seen at much lower levels for those like children. pediatricians fear is a matter of time before young child dies from nicotine used to refill these e-cigarettes. liquid has led to a recent spike in poison control centers. it is a likely candidate for ingestion by young children because it smells like candy and is often sold without child proof packaging. the highest concentrations, a small vial can contain 5 and did milligrams of nicotine, in a to

kill several average size curious toddlers. we find it completely unacceptable that no federal laws or regulations require sale of the liquid in childproof containers. we call on congress administration to help us to act quickly to make sure this needless did to children is eliminated. the e-cigarette water vapor can cause lung irritation in the short term and no research has yet been established to show long-term safety. there are numerous non toxins and kites and agents that levels markedly lower than that in regular cigarettes. the levels of particulates are similar to that in combusted cigarettes. they are particularly concerning because of the well-known appeal of flavored tobacco products that is well understood by e-cigarette manufacturers. and education website sponsored by one e-cigarette company, kids may be particularly vulnerable to trying e-cigarettes due to an abundance of flavors like cheri, the land and pina colada.

notably this same company markets in cheri, a vanilla conlan and pinochle lot of. other flavors include cotton candy, gum ibert, captain crunch and atomic fireballs, clearly enticing children. young children being enticed to experiment is uniquely susceptible to ni

whether e-cigarette how we support fda's regulatory authority to regulate tobacco products for the protection of public health. it would be a tragedy if we failed to regulate e-cigarettes in a way that protect children

only to later find out we caused serious harm. the message of america's pediatricians on e-cigarettes is simple, we have a duty to protect the children. thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. >> thank you very much, dr. tanski. now mr. mathew myers. >> i am president of the campaign for tobacco free kids. mr. chairman, minority members thune, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity. we worked with you for a decade to help pass the law giving the food and drug administration the authority over cigarettes, smokeless tobacco and all other tobacco products precisely to address many of the concerns, mr. chairman you raised today. over the last several years we have seen a dramatic growth in the marketing and sale of e-cigarettes. despite the rise in the use of e-cigarettes as you correctly

noted, liz oil is proven eager about their health effects or their population impact. our core position is that responsibly marketed and properly regulated, e-cigarettes could benefit public health if in fact they helped people switched off of cigarettes to either the exclusive use of e-cigarettes or use of nicotine altogether. but e-cigarettes pose a particular health risk to the public. if they're not used by smokers or other tobacco users, or glamorize smoking in the eyes of children or discourage smokers from quitting by providing doses of nicotine that sustain addiction rafters and help people quit, today, as you correctly noted come as a result

of the failure of government to act swiftly and the most irresponsible actions by the manufacturers and marketers of e-cigarette companies, the marketplace for e-cigarettes has turned into a true wild west. the rapidly growing and today completely unregulated e-cigarette marketplace has not only outpaced the science, behavior of the e-cigarette industry itself raises serious concerns about the ultimate effect of e-cigarettes on public health. e-cigarettes are made can also impact would do they are effective in helping people quit smoking cigarettes or windsors they lead to sustained use or introduce a new generation to smoking. unfortunately it appears a substantial segment of the industry designing their products nor marketing with an eye toward reducing the number of people who smoke cigarettes. let me address marketing because it is the one this hearing is

about. marketing practices and images of e-cigarette manufacturers today, mr. chairman, exactly as you noted, are virtual leases same as those used by cigarette manufacturers to successfully attract kids to smoking cigarettes for 50 years. it is the battle we have been fighting and are slowly but significantly winning. yes, for e-cigarettes today, we see celebrity spokespeople with seems like freedom and imagery like this. we see the use of sex as we saw with the cigarette companies, themes and images like this. we see placement in the swimsuit issue of sports illustrated with placements of the brand-name on the bikini bottom of a scantily clad model in probably the magazine that is read by more adolescent boys than any other

single magazine in the united states. we have seen a return to sponsorship of sporting events, rock concerts' attended by youth all over the country. cigarette companies use these exact same images in these exact same places in the exact same way. the impact was tragic and we are still paying for it. it was a dramatic rise in youth tobacco use. as you correctly noted we are seeing a decline in cigarette smoking but we are also seeing a rapid rise in youth use and experimentation of e-cigarettes. no one should be surprised. while it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at these ads and figure out who they are targeted to, we in fact have a whole body of science done by the national cancer institute, the institute of medicine, the

surgeon general and a plethora of others that looked at these techniques in marketing and determined that they are directly related to the increase in use of cigarette smoking among kids. it defies logic. it defies science to say the same technique for the same as won't have the same impact on our nation's use with regard to e-cigarettes. you are going to hear i am sure the e-cigarette manufacturers, we don't target kids. in fact that is exactly what the cigarette companies have been saying for 50 years. to this day they have never admitted running this thing glad that targeted kids. the third prong of those eight ceos is another and said they didn't believe smoking caused disease or addiction was we don't market to children. let me quote from judge kessler's decision in the case of the federal government against the tobacco industry,

sadly eight years after the tobacco companies promised to stop marketing to kids. ..

the same is exactly true with flavorings. they're asking us as well to turn the world upside down. the exact same flavors that you quoted that dr. tanski quoted that prompted congress to ban the use of characterizing flavors and cigarettes are now being found in e-cigarettes. we are hearing the same thing from them. these are not about targeting kids, they say. here's a bottle of liquid. cinnamon bun flavored. i would pass it around with your fingers would stink if he did it and i have to caution you not to open it because it's as if it touches your skin is toxic. if you inhale it, it is toxic and yet this is being sold over the internet with virtually no control so it is easily available. blue cherry crush with this. is it any surprise that the data is already showing an increase

in use of these flavors? dr. tanski cited a tobacco companies own website but i could cite you a string of quotes of integral tobacco industry documents that says these flavors appeal primarily to young people. whether or not they may or may not help somebody quit smoking, we don't know. what we do know is that they appealed dramatically to young people and unless somebody can get a handle on the marketing of these flavors and a new study out in the last few weeks shows the number of new flavors has literally exploded. i can guarantee you nobody is testing those flavors because they would have to if they're being regulated by the fda to see whether those flavors entice kids. in short, mr. chairman, this thing comes out exactly the right time. it is an urgent need for our

government to step in and protect our kids. this is not a young about whether or not e-cigarettes potential have beneficial effects. it is about the behavior of the e-cigarette companies and how their marketing and manufacturing these products. unless the fda acts and acts rapidly, and, unfortunately, there proposed regulation doesn't even address the question of e-cigarette marketing or the flavors in e-cigarettes so that our kids will continue to be, as you correctly said, human guinea pigs for an industry that has demonstrated no responsibility and how it is marketed, where it is marketed, to whom it is targeted its products. we urge you to take strong action to ensure that these issues are addressed. thank you. >> thank you, sir. and now mr. jason healy is president of lorillard

subsidiary, blu ecigs, in quotes, the market leader for sales and marketing in the e-cigarette industry. we welcome you. >> chairman rockefeller, ranking member thune, and members of the committee i am jason healy, founder and president of blu ecigs. it is a privilege to cover today to speak about a new product that has tremendous potential to reduce tobacco related harm and disease and hopefully play a role in eliminating traditional cigarettes. back in 2008 i tried my first electronic cigarette. as a smoker i saw tremendous opportunity for myself and other smokers. i immediately saw that this innovative product could provide an alternative to smokers who enjoy smoking old who struggled to quit like myself, but don't let the negative effects of traditional cigarettes on their health. i became convinced that e-cigs are just as most -- as much a --

at every time i use and easy instead of a combustible cigarette it is a good decision. i'm not alone in seeing the potential. public health experts have long considered harm reduction and effective approach to production of is caused by various behaviors. harm reduction policies apply to tobacco will make great progress because we does would need an alternative policy that complements prevention and cessation. different types of nicotine use occupy different points along with fda calls a continuum of risk. some of today's care less risk than others. lacking combustion, e-cigs fall dramatically lower on this continuum compared to traditional cigarettes. that is only logical because traditional cigarettes are very different. one example of a significant difference, and recent study by our researchers found that harmful constituents present in cigarette smoke were at nondeductible levels in the paper of blu ecigs, and similar to that, our founders

are consistent with other third party research. i've included a summary in my submission. >> could you just say that last sentence once again, please? >> our -- sorry, to the harmful constituents? >> yes. >> our study by our researchers found that harmful constituents present in cigarette smoke were at nondeductible levels in the vapor of blu ecigs and similar to that found in -- son. >> thank you. we support science-based fda regulation of e-cigs and we're committed to working with the fda. manufacturing standards to ensure safety, age of purchase to ensure this is an adult only product, content and nicotine laden to make the consumers informed -- we are encouraged that the fda's preamble to the proposed regulation seems to acknowledge that religion should be proportional to harm any one

size fits all approach is not appropriate. we agree with the director of the center for tobacco products what he said we have to have an open mind on the potential for these emerging technologies to benefit public health. blu has not waited for fda's action to address youth access to practically advocate for and support state legislation to prevent minors from purchasing electronic cigarettes and we require third party age verification for online sales. blu began as a small company marketing a challenge of introducing a product that did not effectively exist in the u.s. with the help of our parent company we adopted strict and responsible marketing restrictions that reflect a clear and focused on adult smokers while also substantially reducing youth exposure to blu ads and promotions. volunteer restriction such as

limiting ad placement immediate and events where the target audience is at least 85% of adult, match or exceed restrictions a doctor but comparable adult consumer product companies. as an industry leader we believe these marketing restrictions demonstrate responsibility. to reiterate, our marketing focus is to communicate to adult smokers that e-cigs are viable alternative to cigarettes. we provide you with an explanation of the voluntary marketing restrictions that we have adopted. we have included this explanation in our submission and i provide it to the committee. e-cigs have a tremendous untapped potential to possible change the lives of adult smokers of traditional cigarettes. reaching this ambitious goal requires a new way of thinking and evolves compelling marketing to normalize this behavior and as a result the normalize smoking. so i don't smokers know it is a viable alternative. further we believe that using a variety of flavors is critical to keeping adult smokers have

switched to e-cigs from returning to more harmful combustible cigarette. e-cigs elected him a significant tobacco -- a top route. thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. healy. and now mr. craig weiss was a president and ceo of njoy, electronic cigarettes, the second largest presence in the e-cigarette market. >> members of the committee and mr. chairman, thank you very much. my name is craig weiss and i'm the president and ceo of njoy. njoy is an independent electric cigarette company with no affiliation to the tobacco industry. we are proud to say that our corporate mission is to obsolete tobacco cigarette and the death and disease that is left in its wake. i would like to focus on what i believe unites us and a company

with the members of this committee, with the fda's center for tobacco products and the dedicated men and women and public health. we look forward to a day when combustion cigars are no longer part of the american landscape. we were appalled at the toll of the tobacco epidemic has taken and continues to take each year on this country including 480,000 adult americans dying a mature teacher from tobacco related illness. the evidence clearly indicates that new approaches will be required to obsolete the combustion cigarette. electronic nicotine delivery systems holds the potential to do a critical role. because smokers are either cannot or will not quit a positive alternative and provide smokers with the nicotine for their ticket to and crave without the combustion of tobacco. and disdained by the 2014 surgeon generals report quote the burden of death and disease from tobacco use in the united states is overwhelmingly caused by cigarettes and other combusted tobacco products.

we understand the decision caused by the 2012 into to the marketplace of the first of the three major american secure copies. while major tobacco companies have not entered the category, as cigarette sales fall, they did not create this industry and most companies in the industry do not sell combustion products. njoy which was established more than five years before the first major american tobacco company purchase an electronic cigarette company is independent of the tobacco industry and has no incentive to promote combustion cigarette use among adults or use. e.n.d.s. are increasing displacing stickers and the uses of woman buys. report from the cdc survey that experimentation of e-cigarettes among youth has risen should be taken seriously. however, early fears that electronic cigarettes would entice young people to initiate

these products and migrate to combustion parts appear to be unsupported by the david at this point. to be clear, no minor should be using a nicotine containing product of any kind. the maximum public health benefit will be achieved by mitigating risks to youth with that constrained the ability for e-cigarettes to effectively compete with combustion cigarettes among adult smokers. and some sales to minors to which we were among the first to support are essential. we have long supported fda regulations in this category and yet the fda's issuance of proposed a collation is a critical milestone. cigarette sal advertise restrictions were not part of the fda's proposed regulation pics objecting electronic cigarettes to combustion cigarette style advertising restrictions would only erect unnecessary barriers to effective promotion of these products to adult smokers. smokers are not going to purchase a smoking alternative that they are not aware. it is important to realize that

in the event trenton faces the same advertise restrictions of combustion cigarettes, the big win will be big tobacco gets to make industry gold on the more than 40 million americans who smoke. still, even responsible television and other advertising should be delivered in a manner that is consistent with the assertion that it is intended for adult smokers rather than for kids. njoy's television campaign friends don't let friends smoke is a clear illustration and we need more rather than less of this kind of advertising. analyzing information collected force may 2014 report on e-cigarette advertising the chairman rockefeller reference in his opening remarks, the american legacy foundation noted quote this data suggest the marketing of njoy is more focus on reaching an adult audience, in accord. according to the surgeon general, nearly 6 million of today's children will adopt smoking, grow up and die prematurely from cigarette

caused disease if present trends continue. the best thing we can do for the health of all of our children is to ensure that the growth in the world in which neither their parents nor any other adult role models are smoking combustion cigarettes. providing spoke to canada will not quit may be the long sought solution to a massive public health problem that has cost millions of lives and more in more members of public health here and abroad are beginning to make their voices heard in support of this technology. we need to approach regulation in a manner that is guided by science rather than emotion or suspicion. there's too much at stake to do any of the way. njoy looks for to working with the committee to achieve the goal of obsoleting combustion cigarettes. thank you. >> thank you. and, finally, mr. scott ballin, dedicate that right? >> close enough. happy birthday, sir. >> scott ballin is a tobacco and

health policy consultant. >> tragedy and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be a. ism much of my professional career dedicated to the public health arena and in particular tobacco and nicotine area. worked for the heart association for many years, coalition on smoking, so been around a long time. i also feel the age. i come here today to give you my thoughts on issues being raised in this hearing as well as on related issues and some of those have come appear on what is a very dynamic, emotionally charged and rapidly changing environment. this includes the broad topic of how all tobacco, nicotine and other products should be regulated, including their advertising and marketing. i and many others including the director of the fda's center for tobacco policy believe we're in a new era, a sort of evolutionary next stage looking to develop a more comprehensive,

rational and workable approach to regulation of all tobacco and nicotine products. this next stage could potentially be as significant as our record of fda oversight over tobacco just a few years ago. it entailed how best to recollect a growing spectrum of products including e-cigarettes that holds significant promise for phasing out or when they virtually eliminating the deadly combustible cigarette but it's got to be done right. it entails accepting and using what is common for two as the continuum risk to regulate products based on the risk, relative risks and their intended uses. gone are the days when we could say that all tobacco products were equally harmful. fda oversight has changed the equation. science and technology and innovation have changed the equation. new entrance into the market place have changed the equation, and consumers have changed the equation. while there are many issues and

some issues needing to be addressed in this new era, two general areas of focus come to mind when it comes to reducing the harms caused by the use of tobacco. first, we need to ensure that no one, no one under the age of 18 should be able to purchase any tobacco or nicotine products and we do everything feasible to prevent the initiation, possession and use of any tobacco and nicotine product by anyone under the age of 18. this includes advertising and marketing that intentionally or unintentionally appeals to children and adolescents, and it includes a discussion about what restrictions should be placed on flavorings. it is generally agreed if we can prevent youth initiation, we are a long way towards advancing our public health objectives. second, we need to ensure that the approximately 40 million smokers in this country are provided with consumer acceptable regulated alternatives to the deadly toxic

cigarette. that's what's killing people in this country. as someone noted earlier, many years ago people smoke for the nicotine and they die from the tar which in many respects what this discussion is all about today. we do need regulations that recognize the artistic differences and risk and will to risk between these products. one size does not fit all. we should also be encouraging better and more focused research in both the public and private sectors, encouraging innovation, providing essential to develop science-based lower risk products and encouraging competition rather than stifling it. in this rapidly changing environment it's going to essential that we approach the discussions of these issues in a more civil manner. that is actually happening at this table today and i appreciate your leadership, mr. chairman. there are numerous stakeholders involved the seemingly differing views. i believe there's a lot more in

common, common ground than people think. the institute for environmental ago sheesh of the university of virginia has been at the forefront in holding a series of safe haven tobacco dialogues were individuals can discuss issues and a non-adversarial manner. first of the dialog stating back to the 1990s involve the public health punitive tobacco growers which led to policy changes in this body and announced that led to the enactment of the tobacco control act and the tobacco buyout. that was monumental and many people said it could not be done. the last three years of in focus on harm reduction issues and was in a set of core principles that were developed. additional safe haven dialogues are being planned and we're going to try to expand of those discussions to include a broader number of people. fda's proposed regulations is also place to start were stakeholders and other interested parties can make their views heard. some dissidents the specifics, i believe that fda's also looking for new ideas and approaches.

the doors open at i think the fact that they haven't covered issues related to marketing and advertising e-cigarettes allows a discussion to start taking place in the agency as well. mr. chairman, and members of this committee, there is a balance that needs to be achieved which in my view can be a win-win for public health. we can deal with the issue of youth initiation, including the impact of advertising and marketing as well as helping millions of addicted adult smokers. while we are making some progress it is not enough. only not enough and that is been stated in this hearing as well. new approaches are needed. within the next 10 years i would like to see the number of children and youth initiating and using cigarettes cut by 75%. the numbers of adult smokers cut at least in half.

a major shift away from the manufacturing of deadly toxic cigarettes to the development, manufacturing and use of significantly lower risk science-based regulated products. i believe that given the proper regulatory tools coupled with incentives, innovation, research, marketplace competition and cooperation amongst various stakeholders we can do it and we can save a lot of lives in the process. thank you. >> thank you, mr. ballin. i just don't know where to begin. mr. weiss, i guess what you're saying was you sort of have a corporate board meeting, and you may become you decided that the corporate purpose of your company would be to reduce cigarette smoking among adults,

and, therefore, you going to e-cigarettes as a way of so doing speaks yes. our corporate mission is to obsolete the combustion cigarette. cigarette. >> so that within the league necessary to the conclusion that you don't do any advertising in some of these magazines, tv which have been discussed. you don't advertise in areas that would appeal to youth to use e-cigarettes, because you wouldn't do that because your definition. it's the adult you're working on, not working on kids. >> that's correct. we are only interested in -- >> so you don't do any advertising. >> we do advertising targeted towards adult smokers. >> is that advertising aimed at adult smokers the kind that was discussed by mr. myers? >> he didn't hold up any of the njoy's ads and as i mentioned -- >> come on. you understand what i'm saying. in other words, appealing to young people.

>> i don't leave our ads appeal to young people. >> boy, life is easy, isn't it? an answer like that. all right, you're on the record there. this is to all the witnesses but not everybody has to answer. i'm worried about the cigarette marketing reaching youth. that appears to be the case. if people figure out a way to actually be just trying to affect adults but get 9.5 million people who read advertisements and 14 when people who see advertisements about e-cigarettes, that would make an interesting discussion. but limiting cigarette marketing to youth has been central to the

multi-decade effort to prevent young people from becoming addicted to smoking. it's well-established that nicotine is the addictive ingredient in cigarettes. so mr. mudd and dr. tanski, would you agree that i made a prolonged smoking prevention and tobacco control effort there has been an encouraging decline in youth rates of cigarette smoking in this country? >> you're absolutely correct. there has been a wonderful decline in the rates of smoking. the data just cannot last week showed a low of 15-point neighbors in prevalence among high school youth which is the lowest rate in 22 years. there have been great strides in reducing cigarette smoking among our youth. >> i get the drift. now, the cigarette manufactures a that their target audience is just adult smokers, and that the other, the youth don't figure

in. this is really, senator boxer, what gets me is this gets so to the integrity of corporate culture, and what people will do when they given the chance to make money. i'm sorry, i just -- that's so deeply embedded in the, that's what i started out by saying i'm on edge emotionally in this whole hearing. but by blanketing a wide variety of media with advertisements, aren't these countries also creating the risk of introducing a whole new generation of young people, starting zero to five, to the highly addictive substance called nicotine? >> yes, sir. that's exactly our fear. there is a whole generation of young people who have grown up since the master settlement

agreement, and other restrictions have never seen a tv ad glamorizing cigarettes, who've never seen the kind of advertising i showed you, and i could've shown you dozens more of those ads as well. and we are deeply concerned that while e-cigarette companies should be free to inform adult consumers, there are ways to do it that don't require them to put ads on the bikini bottoms of women in "sports illustrated," sponsor rock concerts. i could show you youtube's of central and provocative images. there is a way -- >> i get your drift. now, the argument has been made that nicotine is what people get addicted to, but tar is what kills them. and i'm sort of stunned by that

because of the one and the other are the same. in other words, you have to prove that nicotine is sort of good for your health for a young person. how would they possibly say that getting addicted on nicotine but they're not being tar present? >> i think there's two points. nicotine is a dangerous to young people specifically while their brains are being formed. so there's no such a thing as the safe delivery of nicotine, particularly in the uncontrolled levels and in these kinds of things that we have seen for a young person. through fda regulation we've shown that it is possible to deliver carefully delivery of nicotine to adults. what's going on in the current marketplace for e-cigarettes, however, is that nicotine is being delivered in uncontrolled levels with uncontrolled flavors and no quality control.

and to say that that does not pose a potential risk is a misstatement. chapter five of the most recent surgeon general's report focus entirely on the toxicity of nicotine. so it is 100% true statement that nicotine isn't what causes cancer. nicotine is not a benign substance. that's what it has always been regulated by fda and white needs to be regulated i fda in e-cigarettes to protect the public as well. >> i think you. my time is up but with the indulgence of my distinguished ranking member i just want to give mr. healy a chance what i'm positing. >> firstly, for myself i being a father beside a businessman do not want my product in the hands of children. and it's something i think we take very safely, but at the

same time we try not to lose sight of the big picture of the 41 million smokers like myself. we also look and watch, whether it be out voluntary advertising restrictions that we put in place that we actually got out of the tobacco act and we put those policies on ourselves. and we also look at who's buying. when we look at who is buying blu, the average age is 51.1 years old. so we watch both ends of the commission, where we are showing a but also what the results of what we're doing our because we have to be responsible for the results. >> as i said my time is up and i apologize to my ranking member, syndicates and. and. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. myers, assuming we all agree that children should not be able to purchase these products, what's your view on whether e-cigarettes have the potential to reduce harm if current adult

smokers of combustible tobacco cigarette switch to them? >> as i said, if properly regulated in terms of quantity of nicotine, how it's delivered, the man is delivered and it's targeted to a current smoker who couldn't otherwise quit, with levels of nicotine's officially so they switched exclusively to e-cigarettes, i don't think there's any doubt that there would be a reduction in harm. >> what's your general view with regard to the science around e-cigarettes? do you view it as settled? >> no. the science is not settled and the signs couldn't be settled because the product itself is changing but, unfortunately, we haven't had the kind of rigorous science that we require for any other product under the revelation of the fda. our organization and i think all the other public health groups would welcome rigors of science

so that e-cigarettes have the potential to help millions of smokers quit, we do the kind of science to make sure the product we are selling to them will actually accomplish that goal. in the absence of regulation what we've seen is products with nicotine levels of enormously different levels. high enough to be a concern and in some cases, so low that the fear is it just makes it too easy for kids to start because 16 in charge because they want to do is have a product for two to start as well as advertising. so it is signs that should drive it but for cautionary principle protecting our kids and how to go about developing that scien science. >> thank you. mr. ballin, there's been discussion about the benefits and harms of e-cigarettes. in your testimony you agree with the director of fda's center for tobacco products who is receiving said there's a continuum of risk for nicotine containing products. you also stated any regulation

of those will be based on relative risk but can you elaborate on how we can find the appropriate balance for e-cigarettes and what some of the key players can do to further the dialogue in scientific research? >> yeah, what a inning around ts table is actually a common direction of what needs to be done. there needs to be more research, no question about. it needs to be done by fda interlinked, nih and other places, coupled with universities and other academics, also industry has a responsibility. there was a statement made by someone earlier that has to be accountability of this interest. i think as the agency because you begged these products anybody wants to file an application with the agency doesn't have to have the proof to back up whatever they're asking for, the agency to approve a product or also allow a claim or anything else. we need to head in that direction very quickly. i agree with a lot of what's

been said at this table. i think we need an aggressive monitoring surveillance system. we've talked about that many, many years over the years, in the public health team entered into an fda and i think anothero find out what's going on in the marketplace we need to be able to tap into the industry documents, if it's not proprietary information the fda needs to do a better job to find out what's happening so they can take the necessary steps to take action. there is a lot of things that need to be done, no question about it but i think collectively and responsibly it is done properly will be able to do with some of the issues that we have talked about today. throwing grenades at each other, i do think is going to be productive and that's why over the years i've come to the conclusion that when people can sit down in a room without negotiating anything and have a civil conversation, off the wall, off the record conversation, progress can be made to it may not be put into

start talking, you'll never find out. i will say it again for me, this hearing is beginning that process and i appreciate it. >> what concerns do you have about advertising to children, and how was the emergence of the tobacco companies in the e-cigarettes field changed the market or the perceptions of the advertising? >> for me, being from the public health committee i've the same concerns many have about advertising crossing the line but i don't know where that is necessarily, but i will say that some of the things i have seen bother me as a public health person, but i don't think banning advertising per se is the route to go because at the same time i think we need to be providing truthful, accurate information to the 40 million smokers out there about what the product are and how they can be used. that is what we need to go so i agree we need to monitor this stuff, which is what you said earlier. there are things that give me

heartburn about what i see in the marketplace, and i think we need to deal with the up front and in a very honest manner. >> just very quickly, mr. healy, mr. weiss, what are your companies doing to restrict advertising to children? >> as i've mentioned briefly, we adopted at blu and policy that we got from the tobacco control act and that was that in our printed, television and marketing efforts, that the audience be at least 85% of adult, as i said which is what we decided to impose and cut that from the tobacco control act. >> in njoy's' case was also self regulate. so in the years that has led up to this regulation we only advertise in programming that would have a predominate adult audience whether that be on television or in print.

>> mr. chairman, my time has expired. >> thank you. senator heller, you're going to be a very good person, as you on anyway, and yield to senator boxer because she is a committee chair and she is here, and dashing senator heller is not. [laughter] senator boxer. >> thank you. mr. ballin, you are very optimistic me. you're talking a city around the table and resolving these things. we tried it with the tobacco companies. they all sat across their any different then you in congress, raised their hands, swore to tell the truth, and then lied. and at that point everyone turned and things began to happen and we began to make progress at that point. i just want to say we don't ask people to raise their hand because you just need to know, and we all know that you have to tell the truth because of 18 usc 101. i've heard a couple of things here that are not true.

i just want to talk about those things. for example, i think mr. healy, you said -- it's true, it's your opinion, this is the greatest invention ever to get people off of the other cigarettes. you said that. >> yes, send it to. spent i would ask an instance and place in the record and american heart association peer-reviewed scientific of the. have you seen this? >> i don't believe i have. >> will put in the record unless there is objection. okay. here's the deal. it's pretty well. reviewed. they say health claims and claims of efficacy for quitting smoking are unsupported by the scientific evidence to date. these are leading scientist the mr. myers, you ought to get a look at this because i don't think you were accurate in your response either. i need to go on. i don't have time and i have to make some points. now, my two friends from the e-cigarette companies, you believe, i'm sure, that nicotine

is dangerous to adolescence, is that correct speak with yes, i do. >> correct. >> and you are aware that the u.s. surgeon general said nicotine exposure during adolescence may have lasting adverse consequences for brain development, and adolescence are equally vulnerable to this highly addictive drug. so i just am asking you because you said that you are working to get adults off cigarettes. that's your goal and that's your mission in your companies. have you ever had a conversation in your company, informally, formally come with another executive about how this product could be marketed to non-smoke non-smokers? >> i can say i haven't had that conversation. >> did anyone in your company ever have that conversation? >> not that i'm aware of. >> mr. weitz? >> absolute not spent what's in

your cigarettes? tell me, what's in them? >> nicotine, glycerin and flavoring. >> how about yours? >> the same, nicotine and distilled water i would add to that list. >> are you aware there was some formaldehyde found in e-cigarettes speak with yes. we've tested our products and there's no formaldehyde in the ingredients in our products. >> how often do you test? >> pretty frequently. >> so this story that found formaldehyde had nothing to do with your company's? >> not from a mine, senator. >> they didn't find any in yours? >> no. "the new york times" was not testing our products. >> is unequivocal that you do not market to kids. so here's my question. to mr. healy. use of their products in cherry crush and vanilla flavors. cherry crush, yet your parent

company as a youth smoking prevention website, your parent company that said, kids may be vulnerable to try e-cigarettes to join a bunch of fun flavors such as cherry, the note, tina colada and berry. you sell cigarettes in three of those flavors but how can you sit here and say you are not marketing to children? >> sender, it's a good question spent what's the an interest because the edges of the average age of a cherry smoker is in the high '40s but also we found that flavors increase, so, decrease the ability possibility of adult smokers who use e-cigarettes switching back because they don't -- >> weight. why did your parent company in their youth smoking prevention website say, kids may be particularly global to try e-cigarettes it to of pundits of fun flavors such as cherry, vanilla, piña colada and berries commend you sell in three of the flavor are you marketing to children?

>> no, i am not. >> who is attracted to cherry, berry, vanilla, who is attracted to that? >> adult smokers. >> they are? that's interesting. i would like to say -- even though your parent company called you out on it. mr. weiss, your company previously committed to not so e-cigarettes in flavor. now wall street investors report you're going to be offering 10 new flavors and more to come. what are these flavors? can you mention them? >> sure. there's a variety of flavors, pomegranate is one. we have adult flavors like single malt scotch for an example. i would say speed you have adult flavors as opposed to youth, kids lead a? >> for example, are not offering cotton candy or gummy bears of what art you offering? what is the list? >> i could probably remember them off the top of my head. so in addition, there's vanilla

bean. there's also ph.d -- peach tea. there's also speedy search, since i don't have time because my time is very limited, would you make that available before the end of the day? >> of course. >> and i want to just show the flavors that we see in e-cigarettes. i don't know the flavors. mr. weiss is now coming up with flavors. before he said it was going to. i'm going to ask our ethicacy people, the two at the end. do you think cotton candy is something that is attracted to children or adults? >> i would argue that cotton candy would be attractive to children spent what about gummy bears, mr. myers? >> i would agree and the evidence shows that to be the case. >> popsicle? okay. so for e-cigarettes as an industry to proclaim that they are not advertising to kids and

their choosing these flavors, we don't know mr. weiss flavors and we now know that cherry and berry, even though your parent company said that they attracted kids, you don't think they attract kids. you are wrong. you are wrong. and let's look at some of the advertising. could somebody help us? and thank you. these are cartoons. they are not by your companies, other companies. i want to say to my children advocacy people, do those look like they are aimed at children or adults? >> senator boxer, i would agree that would be poppe smurf and that would look like would be appealing to children that there are movies featuring the smurfs. >> and as a grandma i can attest to the fact that the biggest movie now, frozen and the biggest song is let it go been one of the e-cigarettes has as a local let it glow.

now, i am saying to my chairman, whom i have door, whether it's his birthday or not, on everything, i share his views on this. and asking mr. weiss and mr. healy to look into your heart. you can sit and say whatever you want. you can con yourself into thinking what you know. we don't know if this product gets people off cigarettes get. it's not proven, not one. so don't think that you're doing some great mission, and then don't say that you really care about kids when you go against your own parent company's advice and start using these flavors. i have some of these flavors are. i'm not supposed to touch them because they are like poison. seriously. painted -- what is this one? gummy bear pink spot. rocket pop. cotton candy. we are seeing a repeat, and we

here in this committee did it. and i'm just saying i have a lot of of questions i will put forward for the record, but i think all of this is very important. and i know the people in the industry, you can talk yourselves into everything. when i was a young woman, doctors said smoke a cigarette, it will calm you down. thank god my mother said not on your life. don't be a part of this, because you will regret it. >> thank you, senator boxer. senator blumenthal. >> thank you, mr. chairman. like the previous colleague, i am tremendously respectful. i'm not going to go quite so far as saying i'm adoring, but -- [laughter] we love you, and happy birthday. >> you like my daughter, to. >> your daughter is gray. like all of our children they

are a better generation to generation. but i also want to thank your staff, and our staff, for the excellent work they've done in putting together this really profoundly important hearing, and it does have a very theory and haunting feel -- eerie. the only difference between her testimony today and the testimony of tobacco executives is that you were not under oath. because i find in his testimony a sense of denial that i cannot credibly accept. and the reason is that it is decided by the numbers. the latest report by the legacy foundation shows that 18 million teenagers were exposed to blu's print and tv ads within a six-month period of low. it shows that njoy's adds reached 3 million teenagers. there's a legal principle that

people are responsible for the natural and logical effect of what they do because they know those effects. and you know that you are reaching children and teenagers. so i think we have seen this movie before. it's called big nicotine comes to children near you, and you're using the same kind of tactics and promotions and ads that were used by big tobacco and proved so effectively. i want to show you, for example, one to begin with, if we can show it. you can see our old friend, joe camel, and our new friend, who is mr. cool. anybody recognize mr. cool?

>> i do, senator. >> are you here denying that mr. cool appeals to teenagers and children? >> mr. senator, that particular illustration was not a commercial. it was place on our website for our consumers but it was an education these. now, i understand -- >> education piece on your website? >> yes, sir. >> so it was not in any way designed to represent your company, is that your testimony? are you denying it represents an official act of your coverage? >> no. what i'm saying is it wasn't a commercial. it had education pieces that were specifically aimed at our consumers. we have taken it down because when i had objections and people said to me, i think this is inappropriate, while i disagreed that the messaging wasn't a naturally, i said you know what,

i -- >> the tactics that you substituted are equally so. you are one step ahead of your critics. let's look at the next visual, if we may. now, does anybody recognize him? mr. weiss, who is a? >> i believe that's robert pattinson. >> what does he have in his mouth? >> that is a njoy electronic cigarette. >> your product. he looks a lot like mr. cool, doesn't? >> he is an adult smoker. >> but do you deny in your testimony today that this ad, the use of this image is designed to appeal to children and teenagers? >> i do. >> why? >> because he is a 28 year-old adult smoker. >> your testimony is that adult role models have no appeal to children or teenagers? in other words, is there older than 18 they have no impact on

people under 18? is that what you're saying? >> what i'm saying is our target is to reach of adult smokers, and being able for them for adult smokers t the other adult smokers that perhaps they admire are using an alternative to toxic cigarette, that that's a good thing. >> well, these ads and these images are designed to appeal to children. and again, they are not only reminiscent, they are really duplicative in my view of the tactics adopted by big tobacco. you have taken their playbook and just modified it to a noncombustible nicotine delivery mechanism. and this hearing is not so much about the contents of the e-cigarettes, or their potential health effects, which i find

somewhat difficult to accept on the evidence we have so far. it's about the marketing and promotion tactics. the use of several celebrities like robert pattinson and images like mr. cool, and others not help perhaps we can reach on a second round of questioning, but in my view the evidence is undeniable that you are seeking, not only do we normalize, but, in fact, to reclaim arise tobacco use and that the products were many, many children and teenagers will be a clear path and gateway to combustible tobacco use, otherwise known as cigarettes. my time has expired. i apologize, mr. chairman, and i hope that on the second round we came here more responses. >> you've been doing this for long time, senator blumenthal. senator klobuchar. >> thank you very much, chairman

rockefeller. i'm a former prosecutor and the like to look at the facts. the first fact that senator blumenthal make sure that really sticks out to me is a recent study found that almost 2 million kids have tried e-cigarettes. that's the problem right there. can we put that picture back up there? so had they gone to those movies, mr. weitz speak with yes, i have. >> have you been in those theaters? i have with my daughter when she was 16, and i can tell you that the people in those theaters for the most part are kids. the people that read those books for the most part are girls. and i've seen this many times because i've had to be up at two in the morning when they do the premier and all the girls go to see the movie. and this is a birthday, happy birthday to robert pattinson. do you think that really appealed to like me or senator blumenthal to wish him happy birthday?

>> again, i will repeat what he said earlier he is an adult smoker we are trying to appeal to adult smokers. >> he is an adult that appeals to kids. that's a marketing technique. the third fact was the flavoring issue. i don't understand why, when regular cigarettes, they can't have flavors, right? is that correct? >> correct. >> why were they banned from having flavors, rather -- regular cigarettes. >> congress determined after substantial evidence that the mostly appealed to young people. >> exactly. so i don't understand why you can have your product without flavors. mr. weiss. >> so for us we do every decision we make through the lens of what is going to help us accomplish our mission to obsolete stickers. because we're only interested in adult smokers, we have not yet sold any products that contain any flavors, and still as of

today don't. as a responsible company we conducted research to ensure that to the greatest degree possible we would not appeal to non-smoking youth with a flavors we would provide. so w we're trying to understand who uses our product with local of appealing to adult smokers without appealing to miners. we were satisfied with the results of the research which will be happy to spend for the record. the research was conducted by the doctor was present at today and is willing to answer questions to you or your staff. >> i've got to tell you, just because they have alcohol age on them, they think it is go. i think it was you, mr. healy, where the piña colada brain. i think a lot of you think those are cool. not to mention the wants that senator boxer mentioned i think any flavor kids electric the other thing, fourth factor want to follow up on was the mr. cool adhesive which was just on a website from is that right?

>> correct. >> let's talk about the website. i understand the social media and how a lot of this is and understand a study out this month shows that e-cigarettes are being heavily marketed on twitter. over a two-month period there were 70,000 tweets related to e-cigarettes. nearly 90% of the tweets were from the cigarette companies and almost all of these included a website link that i also understand when people sign up for the twitter account have to say they're over 18, right, or 18 or over? over 18. >> social media sites have age verification or certification processes that we installed. >> okay. but they are public tweets and anyone can get on these twitter accounts. and anyone can get on youtube, right? none of the videos are age restricted, is that right? >> correct. >> i just got to tell you that my in-laws use, i don't think they use twitter, okay?

they are in their 70s. by no that all my daughter to friends and use twitter and all use facebook and they are very in depth on social media. that is putting it in a minor fashion. so i would think this kind of marketing would be particularly appealing to kids and i wondered if you wanted to comment on that, dr. tanski? >> i think you are correct that using social media as a particularly adept way of reaching young people. and to the point of the age restrictions, the website for electronic cigarettes the most right now most of them to ask if you're over 18 and you say yes and your in rather than having a double forms of age vacation. it's far easier to just say yes and you can get right in. so i agree that the protections to use our relatively weak to be able to have access to some of this marketing but it's very powerful as you noted. >> mr. myers? >> i completely agree.

it is an 70 olds were looking at twitter of youtube videos that are out there. and we also looked at the age for vacation on e-cigarettes sites including lorillard and it is nowhere comparable to what is the set of requirements or cigarettes. so it's a dual standard come one allows young people and much, much easier. >> i just want to conclude here in my closing argument as a former prosecutor what you have here is 2 million kids and growing. you've got marketing a flavors which we know from the past with regular cigarettes that it's a very reason why we banned flavorings and radio cigarettes. now you have this happening again like groundhog day. then the third thing that we know is that we've got heavy use of social media, which are also note is targeted toward youth. a great way to reach youth. in fact, one of the only ways to reach youth at times if you've got any kids that's on the iphone constantly, texting and

looking at things. then we got our sort of celebrity models, which i've got to tell you that most people over 50 are not going to know who robert pattinson is as much as you'd like to think. just that he is 28 and has 28 candles, justin bieber is over 18 and have sold put an ad out for him, you probably wanted by the way, but if someone put him out there even those over 18, i don't think anyone is going to think that that is marketed to adults. so this is my exhibit d. so thank you very much. i just think to me when you look at all these facts, there is heavy-duty marketing going on to use the classic when it is for them to get dependent we are have just started to see such success. thank you. >> i'm going to state the question in before senator nelson. -- sneak a question in. >> mr. healy, how many years have you been a smoker? >> i started at 23 and i'm 42.

not good at math but a fair amount of time. >> and you are using e-cigarettes to help you get rid of your cigarette -- i'd like to hear about how it's working for how long have you been doing it? what do you notice? i don't believe -- i think from mr. myers, i think you're all talking into the clouds in terms of facts. ..

>> have you ever -- does lorillard allow distributing of free samples to kids? >> blu distributes -- >> i mean blu. >> yeah. samplings to verified 18-year-old or above smokers. >> and how do you know that they're 18 or above? >> we have machines that they have to provide, first they provide their driver's license, state driver's license. it's swiped to be verified, and then the first question they're asked is, is -- are they a smoker. if they say no, their experience with us ends. if they say, yes, we talk to them about the product, and they can acquire a sample. >> so you think that's a

virtuous civic duty that you're performing there? >> i think we should be responsible, particularly when handing the product to someone. >> senator nelson. >> mr. chairman, as usual, you have picked a hearing on an important topic of the day, so thank you very much. i want to ask dr. tanski, you testified that there was a reap increase of nicotine poisoning cases in young children. are these cases mainly coming from children getting into the refill vials of liquid nicotine, or are you seeing the poisoning cases from the disposable e-cigarettes? >> unfortunately, senator, we don't actually have that level of detail. what we know is that the trajectory of the number of calls has been increasing for electronic cigarette and

nicotine devices very rapidly with 251 calls in just the month of february. we don't have the kind of detail that stays if they're coming from the refill devices or not. my personal suspicion is that's the greatest likelihood for the kids to get into them, rather than the whole cigarettes themselves, the whole electronic cigarettes themselves. >> you also note that there are currently no standards for governing child-proof packaging for these liquid nicotine bottles, and i would like, mr. chairman, if this is not -- if this has not already been entered into a record, it's a photograph of a number of these liquid flavors; banana split, cotton candy, kool-aid grape, skittles, sweet tart, gummy bear, fruity loops, rocket pop, hawaiian punch.

doctor, would you support giving either the consumer product safety commission or the fda express authority to enforce child-proof packaging for toxic or harmful household substances on all of those liquid nicotine containers? >> absolutely, senator. it is critically important that we protect youth and children especially from these nicotine-containing products. everything else in your home that is toxic pretty much has a child-safe cap on it whether it's a bottle of bleach or medicines taken home from the pharmacy. it's harder to get into so it gives that extra time so a parent can be there so they don't have a toxic exposure. so i ask for your help. we believe fda has regulatory authority over packaging, although it's not yet been commented on, and i would encourage that you guys as the committee to, please, help us. i think consumer product safety

commission should consider, if possible, their oversight to include this as a toxic product. i know that at present tobacco products are excluded from the packaging regulations, but perhaps that should be revisited, and this should be considered somehow different from other tobacco products. >> maybe all the more needed, the gummy bear actually has a picture of gummy bears on the label. mr. weiss, you have stated that there should not be restrictions on responsible advertising of e-cigarettes or other types of these nicotine vapor products. tell us what is responsible and what is irresponsible advertising in your industry in. >> responsible advertising is trying to reach the more than 40

million adult smokers in this country, over 500,000 of whom die every year prematurely from tobacco-related illness. trying to reach those people and get them off of the toxic part they're currently using is a responsible thing to do. irresponsible, i think, would be the use of cartoon characters or images, trying to target children with advertising during television programming that would appeal to chirp and things of -- to children and things of that sort. >> well, is it responsible to show an e-cigarette that looked almost exactly like a combustion cigarette in a television ad? is that responsible? >> i believe that it is, because i think for most smokers if you'd ask them what an electronic cigarette is, they think it's a complicated device with a lot of wires, and it was important for us to communicate to them that it could be as close as possible to the product they were currently using, and that would make it as easy as

possible to transition from one habit to another habit that we felt had the potential for reduced harm. >> for an adult who knew all of that. but what about for a kid that's looking at that tv advertisement? doesn't the message send to that kid that doesn't know the sophistication of what you just said, that it's okay to have either one? >> no. that's why we have in our messaging, for example, friends don't let friends smoke which was our ad campaign that we did earlier this year. that's the kind of ad campaign that i think the public health community should support. >> i think that's where you're going to run into some problems. in the public sector, we've been through this with tobacco and children, we have seen how tobacco companies have tried to hook children through these seductive advertisements on nicotine because once they get

'em as a child, it's going to be tough all through their life as an adult to get off of it. and i think you are going to have some significant pushback on blending and blurring the two. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator nelson. senator markey, would you forgive me if the power structure of the -- [laughter] has arrived? [inaudible conversations] was actually -- no, the power structure is here. with coffee. and -- black coffee, no suring. and -- no sugar. and was actually going to give a presentation before all of this started, but because he's the power structure, he was doing something that required the use of power. [laughter] so would you yield for a moment to senator durbin? >> i think -- >> you have a right to remain silent. [laughter] >> i spoke, i spoke on the turbine amendment on the house -- durbin amendment on the

house floor in 1987, i think it was, which was the first amendment ever brought out on the floor to ban smoking on flights of two hours or less, and that amendment passed by a vote, and so we're here with a historic figure on this issue, dick durbin, so i'd be more than willing to hear. i'm sure it's a historic presentation. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] >> i want to thank the chairman for his kind remarks and also my colleagues, and thank you for your patience. and i'm going to submit my statement for the record and, first, acknowledge the presence of matt myers. matt and i have been in this struggle for a long time trying to save and spare kids from tobacco. and what it does to 'em. and we know when addictions start, they start in your adolescence. if you can sell an addictive product to an adolescent, you've got 'em. you may have 'em for life. and that's why a lot of marketing is done for children. back in the day it was just

bald-faced marketing, joe camel and everything you can imagine. and the kids were wearing t-shirts and hats and, sadly, becoming addicted to products that would absolutely be the end of their healthy lives if they weren't careful. and now we have this argument by the e-cigarette industry that it's just an accident that all your advertising and marketing is appealing to so many kids. a little hard to understand. i think it's hard to believe. look at the numbers here. e-cigarette use among nation's kids is on the rise. cdc released data last year showing from 2011 to 2012 the percentage of middle and high school students who used e-cigarettes more than doubled. they would have you to belief that just -- believe that just happens, it's an accident. we know better. the same study found that one in five middle school students who reported using e-cigarettes had never even tried a conventional cigarette. this wasn't about finding a way off of smoking. this suggests for many young

people e-cigarettes was a gateway to nicotine addiction and to smoking. the new study by jama goes even further. middle and high school students who use e-cigarettes more likely to smoke traditional cigarettes, less likely to quit smoking. this didn't come from some liberal think tank. jama, pediatrics. according to the 2014 such general's -- surgeon general's reports, many people who are occasional smokers go on to become daily smokers. there's one part i do want to refer to because it hearkens me back to an era, senator markey, that you will remember well. it was 30 years ago, if you can recall this time, when those seven tobacco company executives appeared over in the house of representatives and took an oath that cigarettes and tobacco were not addictive. now lorillard, one of the executives represented lorillard, lorillard's back

arguing they don't market to kids. look at the analysis recently published in the journal of pediatrics. exposure to e-cigarette marketing by children 12-17 rose 256%. 24 million kids saw these ads. that's no stent in the world of -- no accident in the world of big business. lorillard accounted for 80% of this advertising targeted at 12-7 years old. it's the same battle, mr. myers. we've been at it before. they want to addict these kids, this time to an e-cigarette which has a chemical that's addictive. we know what it leads to. sadly, it leads to tobacco addiction, disease and death. i don't believe ins a -- i don't believe there there is a case te made for selling e-cigarettes to

children. i hope this committee feels the same way. >> it does. thank you, senator durbin. senator markey. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and just going back to dick durbin, that was a historic debate on the house floor, and that was the beginning of the banning of smoking on airplanes in the united states, and we still are in your debt, dick, for that day. it changed the whole course of history. my father died from lung cancer. he smoked two pax of camels -- packs of camels a day. he told me at age 12, he said he knew i'd be starting the smoke very soon, he said to me at age 12. because that's what year he started to smoke, and he knew i would too. and he was urging me not to, as was my mother, at age 12. because my father knew then that when he started smoking, maybe in 1930 -- huh? that the same thing was going to to be true when i was a boy, and the same thing is true today for boys and girls.

that's when the temptation is greatest, and that's when we have to be most most aware of it. because the marketing to them is what makes it seductive, and then once you've got 'em, you have got 'em for life. so that's really why we're having this hearing, because the marketing of this, the allure of this so superficially attractive that we know that all of history tells us that it's targeted at young people, at kids. and it's always been that way. and i miss my father, and i wish he had never smoked two packs of camels a day, but he couldn't break the habit once he was into it. once you're on, you're on. so we know the technology is a very good thing. we have transformed rotary phones into iphones, turned sunlight and wind into electricity and plants into life-saving drugs. there are certain things that do not serving any societal benefit whatsoever. the cigarette is one of them. yet new cigarettes have exploded

into the marketplace known as everything from are e-cigs to advanced nicotine delivery systems to available risers. -- vaporizers. these products are more is accessible to youth and are expolice is sitly marketed to youth. and because of this we are focused on a revisitation of the history books. we know what happened in the past, we know what's happening right now. after more than four decades of research, there are several incontrovertible facts, nicotine is addictive, and in come combin with tobacco, it is responsible for claiming millions of lives. these facts are true and were true decades ago at the same time as big tobacco willingfully, consistently, publicly and falsely denied them. today e-cigarette sales in the united states alone tops $1 billion. use of e-cigarettes by high school students doubled in just one year, and more than 20% of

middle school kids who use e-cigarettes have never smoked a traditional cigarette. this data is not at all surprising when one considers the way these products market, particularly to youth and how these products are available in a myriad of flavors from cotton candy to kool-aid grain. in the 19 50s, chesterfields claimed they left a clean, fresh taste in the mouth while -- and today white cloud e-cigarettes promises the gift of fresh air. in the 1940s philip morris promised their product will provide freedom from throat irritation and virginia slims advertised as touches of freedom that equated smoking with women's rights. today blu cigarettes have a campaign called take back your freedom, promoting the use of their products in spaces where traditional smoking is not allowed. and in the 1970s lorillard

advertising executives suggested walking a fine line in packaging design to insure that packaging was geared to attract the youthful eye. not the ever-watchful eye of the federal government. today's electronic cigarettes are no better than the moral borrows of the -- marlboros of the 1950s. cotton candy-flavored vape liquid can contain just as much nicotine and sometimes more as a traditional cigarette. cherry crush e-cigs pose the same addiction risks as joe camels of the 1970s, and we know from years of research that flavors attract young people, and the younger a person is when they start tobacco use, the more difficult it is to stop. we know that if a kid hasn't started to smoke by age of 19, they're not going to start. we just know that's a rule. so you've got to get 'em before 19, okay? because all the social pressure

is no longer effective anymore,? just a rule. so you have to market younger. that's just the way it works. got to find replacement customers for those who have died. so, dr. tanski, if you could give me a yes or a no, is the nicotine that is present in e-cigarettes and e-liquids any less addictive than nicotine in traditional cigarettes? >> no less aticktive than anything in a traditional cigarette. >> mr. weiss, mr. healy, do you agree that your products are just as addictive as traditional cigarettes? >> i agree they contain nicotine, and is we acknowledge nicotine is addictive. >> so you agree? do you agree, mr. healy? >> yes. >> mr. myers, if that that is te case and they're addictive, then what possible argument can they make in order to keep these products on the market or targeted towards children? >> it's particularly the reason

we're concerned about the kind of marketing that we've seen and use of flavors that we think have traditionally been shown to the appeal to children. >> for in the thought of santa claus brings thoughts of nostalgia, childhood cookies and big, white beard. most children would not think of santa needing an e-cigarette despite this promotion to the contrary. other examples, including images of blu's mr. cool bring back flashbacks of similar strategies used by traditional tobacco companies. mr. myers, do you think there is a chance that these images could appeal particularly to young consumers? >> i think there's no question about that. and our concern is it's a generation of consumers who have been protected from this kind of advertising. and so it's the first time they'll see them. >> do you think it's a coincidence that it's actually called cool in the same way that kool cigarettes, with a k, back in the earlier age was meant to be the entry level for a kid to

finally reach camels, but it would be a softer entry for the kid to be able to go kool first and then move on to the harder cigarette? >> it requires a level of disbelief to believe that it could possibly be a coincidence. >> yeah. so cool was a word then, and it's a word now, and each time it's trying to get the young kid into the pattern of smoking cigarettes. mr. weiss, mr. healy, do you agree about that, that that's really what the intention is, to entice a kid into doing something that's cool that ultimately is going to potentially lead to real health consequences for that young person? >> absolutely not. our product is intended for adult smokers. i could understand the opinion if smoking wasn't -- and we created smoking. we didn't. we created our product for smokers to get them away from combustion cigarettes. >> mr. weiss, mr. healy, in your

testimonial in the materials presented to the committee, you repeatedly state that your target audience are adults, and we continue to hear it right now. will your companies commit to not using these types of materials that could be expected to particularly appeal to children? will you agree not to use that kind of advertising? it was used when i was a boy. you're using it again today. we know why young kids used to say i think i'm going to smoke kools first. so will you agree not to use that kind of advertising going forward in the future? >> that particular we've removed a year ago, so we commit to never using that again, correct. >> well, will you commit to not using any kinds of cartoons in the future, mr. healy? >> i will agree to that, yes. >> will you -- >> yes. >> no cartoons in the future? >> correct. >> will you commit to going through your social media sites to erase any past images such as those that appeal to those who are young kids?

>> yes, absolutely. we rigorously go through and will continue to do so. >> will you agree with that, mr. healy? >> i believe blu already has. >> dr. tanski, several e-cigarette brands create advertising to suggest they're a way to eliminate traditional cigarette use altogether. this has been acknowledge inside a recent report that stated some brands focus their message more responsibly on smokers to quit combustible use. let's briefly view a recent television ad by finn e-cigarettes a brand that has recently surged in popularity. ♪ ♪ >> to the land of the free, the pursuit of happiness. to independence, to freedom of choice, to equality.

there was a time when no one was offended by it. that time has come again. finn, electronic cigarettes. rewrite the rules. >> so to repeat the closing line, there was a time when no one was offended by it, just smoking amongst other people in in indifferent to how it might impact on them. but that time has come again, says the ad. the message seems to be promoting smoking as a new favorite pastime for young, attractive consumers. dr. tanski, based on your review of e-cigarette marketing messages, do you have any concerns that these products are glamorizing smoking in general? >> yes, i do, senator markey. it's clear that many of these images are quite glamorous and quite attractive, and they really are taking a lesson from the 1950s playbook of the tobacco companies, and that is a senate concern, as we've all heard. i just want to make a point that when kids, when young people see these ads or see people who are

using electronic cigarettes or vaping devices, it's very indistinguishable for a young person to make the distinction between what is someone who's smoking versus someone who's vaping. my own kids who are 13 and 11 years old, i've shown them pictures and videos of vaping, and i'll say what are they doing? they'll say, they're smoking a cigarette. of it's very difficult for kids in particular to understand that there's a difference. so we really are seeing, i fear, a renormalization of that kind of image and behavior. and it's glamorous, it's successes city, they've got very cute models who are vaping, and our kids don't recognize the difference. so it really is significant cause for concern. >> do you agree that blu's tagline, nobody likes a quitter, may be encouraging continued nicotine and tobacco use by those who would otherwise quit altogether? >> that again is a significant concern, that we're maintaining dual use rather than getting people to completely quit their come busted tobacco products.

>> mr. healy, many company collect day to about their customers, do you collect information about the demographics of your customers? >> yes, sir, we do. >> could you provide the demographics of your current users to the committee? >> yes, i could. our average consumer is 51 years old, but we can give you the total data to supplement the record. >> mr. weiss, would you do the same for the committee? >> yes. >> okay. i thank you so much. i think that we know what's going on here. you don't have to be dick tracy to figure this out, and we understand the advertising, we understand who it is being marketed to, we understand that you've got to get someone under 19 to start smoking, or else you have lost them most likely as a customer. so, mr. chairman, i thank you for this hearing. i am fortunate i never had a cigarette in my life, but that was just because my father knew he had made a big mistake, and he made it, along with my mother, a very strong admonition

to me. but this was just an avoidable catastrophe. and we just have to make sure that other young people who were not protected the way i was aren't actually made vulnerable by the marketing of these companies, because otherwise it's just another gateway like kool cigarettes used to be into the worst that can happen to someone from a health perspective. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator markey. we're going to have a second round because if senator blumenthal doesn't ask a second round, i'm not going to speak to him. [laughter] >> thank you, mr. chairman. i would respectfully request a second round. >> yes. before you start, i'm going to give my conclusion. i think this whole thing is nothing more than it's all about the money. i think it's uncreative, i think it's nasty.

it's like pornography, in my mind. what's to pick between the one and the other. in fact, maybe what you're doing is much more dangerous. i'm ashamed of you. i don't know how you go to sleep at night. i don't know what gets you to work in the morning. except the color green, of dollars. i've never said anything like that before, but i've never in my 30 years on this committee have i ever heard testimony such as given by you, and by you, sir. what i want to do is send you to the middle east because you say we can get good people together, and we can settle everything. you should go to the middle east and settle that, then come back and talk to us more realistically. but for you two, you're what's wrong with this country. and the profit motive is good,

but only if it's aimed at something which is for the general benefit of the public. and that can be stretched a little bit. because the public likes to be intertaped. i can't say -- entertained. i can't say professional basketball is necessary for the existence of democracy in america, but people like it, so let's go ahead. [laughter] i think in your case you don't have that leeway. it's simply a matter of the dollars. the money that you rake in. the 256% increase in two years in advertising. and then you say it's only for the adults, not for the children. when everything else has come out of this hearing says otherwise. i think it's dreadful. i yield to senator blumenthal. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for giving us a second round and, again, thank you for holding this hearing. i want to begin by joining

senator durbin in thanking matt t myers for his longstanding historic and heroic efforts in this area which go back decades and, in fact, we have worked together for a couple of decades on nicotine addiction and tobacco use which are a continuing problem in this country. let us never forget despite the fact that this hearing is on e-cigarettes that the evil of tobacco and cigarette use remains as a primary cause of death and addiction in this country, and if there is a redeeming fact about your products, it is the possibility that it offers quit mechanisms -- yet unproven -- but at least perhaps a glimmer of hope. it's the advertising and promotions and the pitches that bring us here today. and so let me begin this second

round of questioning on sort of a positive note. in the war against big tobacco, so-called, i was privileged to o help to lead that effort close to 20 years ago with lawsuits that eventually led to settlements that produced great advances. not alone, because it took an act of congress in the tobacco control act to take another step, and we still have more steps to go in the battle to redeem public health in that area. but let me ask you, would you be willing to come together, to sit down, to commit to reaching a settlement, an agreement, a protocol that stops any possible ads and pitches that appeal to children and teenagers?

>> i mean, i'll answer for njoy, we are committed to not -- we do not want to attract anyone who is not an adult smoker to our products, and we've committed to fda regulation, we've been long supporters of fda regulation for the category, for them to make the science-based, today-driven decisions -- >> i'm asking you to commit to something more specific which is to join in talks, specific discussions involving others in the industry, the major players, just as happened in the tobacco area that would produce protocols and agreements, for example, to avoid use of tv, to avoid use of cartoon characters, to require identification at point of sale similar to what was done in the tobacco era? >> we would be willing to have the conversations. i wouldn't be willing to restrict television advertising because it's an effective means

of -- >> well, of course it is. it's a attractive means to reach children. i'm asking you to join in conversations that would involve others in your industry, and i'm asking this question of mr. healy as well. it would at least consider what has been true of the tobacco industry, its avoidance of the use of tv ad as. >> -- tv ads. i would welcome the ability to sit down and discuss it. as i said earlier, not my intention to sell this product to children. it's the 41 million smokers. so i am not averse to sitting down and discussing all responsibilities of how we do that -- possibilities of how we do that. >> and we are not talking intent. i am sure your companies have not done what the tobacco industry did, which is to do marketing studies that we discovered when we brought lawsuits that showed that

despite all their claims under oath, in fact, they had studies showing that their marketing tactics were aimed at children, had the effect of reaching children and appealing to children. i know you're a lot smarter. you don't have those studies in your files. but this hearing is not about what you say your intentions are. it's about what the effects are of your marketing strategies, your promotions, your use of celebrities. and let me just show you just to complete some of the tableau here, i am sure, mr. healy, you recognize this individual. >> that's jenny mccarthy. >> and you know what product she's using. >> blu. >> and would you deny that this kind of promotion appeals to teenagers and children? >> i would deny that. >> you would? and even though she's a celebrity, even though she's in

an obviously suggestive pose here, you would deny it has any appeal to teenagers and children? >> yes, i would deny that. >> would you say she is smoking in this promotion? >> she's vaping. >> vaping? so to go to the point that was made earlier, you don't see any confusion between smoking and vaping in this ad or any of your other promotion? >> of course there is some confusion, but in order to defeat tobacco and cigarettes, we have to appeal to smokers. >> let me show you another official document from your company, it's on your, i believe, on your web site, is it not? as part of what you have called the smoking, lorillard inc. smoking prevention program. you recognize it? >> no, i don't. i'm here to represent blu, not lorillard, so i'm not sure where that's from. >> it's your parent company?

>> i don't even know what it is you're showing, sir. >> well, let me -- can i have one of the staff give it to -- and by the way, mr. chairman, could i have all of these documents and the visuals shown by both senator markey and and others on the committee made part of the official record. thank you. do you recognize that document? >> i believe it's from -- i forget the technical name, but the site that lorillard sponsors. but they're not responsible for the messaging or have any editorial control. again, i'm here to speak for blu, this is not -- >> well, if it's a lorillard document or it's on lorillard's web site, you're saying lorillard's not responsible for it? >> this is not on lorillard's web site. >> is it on yours? >> no, it's not on mine either. >> so it is not part of real

parents, real answers, what you need to know about e-cigarettes? >> i assume it is, but -- >> you assume it is? you've never seen it before? >> i've never looked at the site in depth. >> you've never looked at the site in depth even though it -- you are here representing blu, are you not? >> correct. >> well, let me just ask you then as someone who's never seen it before, it says for the first time in 43 years smoking ads are returning to tv with advertising. and you'll have to accept my representation that this is part of a presentation called real parents, real answers. it's sponsored by lorillard inc.'s youth smoking prevention program, and it says that smoking ads are returning to tv. are those your ads? >> our ads would be some of

them, yes. >> and it says kids may be particularly vulnerable to trying e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors such as cherry vanilla, pina colada and berry. that's a warning, is it not? >> that's the opinion of the person who created the site. >> the person who created it, and it might be lorillard but, of course, you haven't seen it before. >> lorillard did not create the site. i know of it and the business behind it. they sponsored it. and at the bottom of the site, they even state cites the opinion of the doctor, not lorillard. >> well, let me show you a couple of charts on flavors. would you say that this kind of promotion or ad appeals to children? >> it's completely inappropriate, and i would agree with you. >> and it is part of what the

industry does, yes or no? >> it's one brand in particular, i believe. it's not what i do or -- >> so wouldn't you agree that as a, in quotes, responsible marketer -- and you're in the business of promoting and selling these products -- that an industry-wide agreement to ban those kinds of cartoon characters would be a good thing? >> banning cartoon characters and the use of in our advertising, i agree. >> so would you commit to come together and reach another master settlement agreement that provides for a ban on this type of inappropriate marketing, the use of people like jenny mccarthy, sports and rock concert sponsorships, all of these kinds of same protocols and agreement with the result of the tobacco industry coming to the table? would you agree to do it? >> i would agree to sit down and

try to effectively eliminate tobacco, but i would not sit down to discuss how i relinquish my first amendment rights and losing focus of the big picture that we could eliminate tobacco here. >> well, may i suggest, respectfully, that i would have more respect for all of the answers that you've given today knowing that you're the messenger, you don't make the policy, if your companies would commit to help lead and make yourselves part of the solution, not the problem. and the problem here -- i just want to stress again, and i've said it repeatedly -- is not your product. we're not, i'm not passing judgment on your product. there's not enough science to draw conclusions as yet. i view it skeptically as a means of quitting or cessation.

but i'm not passing judgment on the product. i'm passing judgment on the marketing and promotion which create a clear and present danger of addicting another generation, addicting another generation to nicotine which is among the most powerfully addictive drugs known to man. and it is, in fact, the ingredient in cigarettes that makes them so pernicious and insidious because it hooks the user to a device that kills them. cigarettes kill people. and if your products are a gateway to cigarette use, they are aiding and abetting that killing. so i hope you'll rethink some of your answers. i hope that we will have another forum where we can revisit some

of these issues and that we can move constructively toward some kind of solution. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator blumenthal. senator knell soften, i think you had -- knell soften, i think you had a question. >> earlier in my comments i noted the toxicity of the concentrated nicotine in an e-cigarette refill liquid. let me ask the two gentlemen, mr. healy and mr. weiss, in addition to the nicotine, what are the other ingredients in the liquid nicotine? >> speaking to the blu product, the five key ingredients are propose line gliokohl, glycerin and vegetable glycerin, distilled water, nicotine and natural and artificial flavors. >> and in our product it's

glycerin and also flavorings. >> any of those other than the nicotine harmful sub standses? substances? >> we've tested our products, and we support the fda's hphc harmful and potentially harmful constituent testing for these products, and we've submitted our results to the fda and are very comfortable with the results that they are orders of magnitude safer than combusted cigarettes. >> but as to the substance itself being harmful or not, i didn't understand your answer. >> so the substances are generally regarded as safe in foods. they haven't been tested in terms of epidemiological studies in inhalation in humans over large periods of time. >> do you make a complete

listing of all these substances in the e-cigarette liquid available to the public? >> yes, i do. it's on our web site. >> yes, sir. >> i would just note for the record and ask that it be insert ed, it's just been brought to my attention, here's a billboard at christmas time in miami on i-95. a picture of what appears to be a santa claus-like figure. i don't always vape, but when i do, i choose vapor shark. kris kringle. so you are utilizing the seasons of the year. i would add this to the record,

mr. chairman, modeling -- very, very attractive molds, all -- models, all promoting these products. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you all. and hearing is adjourned. >> thank you. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> here's what's coming up today on c-span2. next, we'll continue our series of recent supreme court oral arguments. today's focus is riley v. california dealing with warrantless searches of mobile phones. and then it's all of today's edition of "washington journal." and a little bit later, a hearing looking at the military retirement benefits system. >> texas republican governor rick perry is in washington, d.c. today. he's taking part in a discussion on the politics of immigration. from the heritage foundation here in washington, you can see his remarks live starting at 11

a.m. on our companion network, c-span. >> here are some of the highlights for this weekend. friday on c-span in prime time, we'll visit important sites in the history of the civil rights movement. saturday night at eight, highlights from this year's new york ideas forum including cancer biologist andrew he is el. and on sunday, q&a with new york congressman charlie rangel at 8 p.m. eastern. friday night at eight on c-span2, "in depth. " saturday on after words at 10, ben carson. and summed night at 11 p.m. eastern, lawrence goldstone on the competition between the wright brothers and glenn curtis to be the predominant name in manned flight. american history tv on c-span3 on friday at eight eastern, a look at hollywood's portrayal of slavery. saturday night at eight, the 200th anniversary of the burning of washington. and sunday night at 8 p.m., former white house chiefs of staff discuss how presidents

make decisions. find our television schedule one week in advance at c-span.org, and let us know what you think about the programs you're watching. call us at 202-626-3400 or e-mail us at comments@c-span.org. join the c-span conversation; like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> and we have more now from our week-long look back at recent supreme court oral arguments. today we'll feature rivalry v. california -- rivalry v. california -- riley v. california. first, some background. >> on april 29, 2014, the supreme court heard oral argument in the case riley v california. this dealt with, this case dealt with the unreasonable search and seizure provision of the fourth amendment. coming out of a shooting investigation in san diego, california, the question was whether evidence from a cell phone gathered without warrant is ss