on the upper right side of the page. >> up next ucla georgia leap talked to us book tv about her book jumped in, a study of los angeles gangs and gang violence biggest of demented interview was recorded at ucla in this part of book tv college series.. nameost: jumped inwae >> host: jumped in is the name of the book. professor george a leap of ucla is the author. the subtitle, what can stop me about violence, drugs, love, and redemption.

professor, what did gangs teach you and out? >> guest: it depends on which of those you want to begin with, but what they taught me was out there is little difference between all of us. i know that sounds almost like a cliche, but what i derived and continue to learn is that they are not that different. somewhere along the way they took a different turn. >> host: how long have you been working with gangs? >> guest: well, the second question is interesting and leads me into the first. it depends upon who you were talking to. if eager to the lapd or law-enforcement have a very strict definition of what a gang is, three or more people covered getting at a corner or in public playing with some type of criminal activity. you can get a very, very specific even down to the

number definition. >> three or more people. remember, it is not just three people. they're making a plan to do something that does not fall merely into the left, but you take a broader look. gangs come in all shapes and sizes. i have had gang members say that law enforcement is the biggest gang of fall. people belong to a story or fraternity might be perceived as being part of a gang. they have rituals, symbols, all kinds of things. so it depends how long have i been involved? , chilly since i began my professional life has of very social worker ants of less los angeles in 1978. the real answer is for a

long time. >> when you talk about gangs have you? >> i ask the members, i asked him how they see it. the definition does not come for me. i'm more interested in how people identify themselves? if they identify themselves as part of the neighborhood or a part of a gang because never heard, i listened to them. i'm more interested in how they talk to themselves than i am a labor. >> host: help organize our these neighborhoods, these gains? >> guest: i love what father greg boyle said. it is religious organized crime. they are populated mainly by adolescence and young adults if anybody tapped memories back to their own adolescence or teenagers are your and adults, they know how disorganized, how sort of live for the moment individuals are.

now, that is not to discredit the kind of things that we hear about, the drug cartels to our corporate organizations who are very carefully organized a round trip distribution and product. this is not a wino. instead what i have lived with our the different permutations of when -- men and women in los angeles to have come together and identify themselves. >> to they have to five we think of the bloods, the christmas spirit is that where tart brought to the? >> guest: it is fascinating. we did think about the bloods and crips. that is certainly who is in the media and hip-hop and film and things like that. the vast majority of gang members and los angeles in the county and the city are browned, mexican american and central american or

latino. so yes we're talking about african american gangs like the bloods and crips and off their sets and clinics, but we are also talking about latino and mexican gangs like white van switches into the fifth generation, anything from ms 13 which is a central american game, 18th street, some of these very well established gangs. and it people will always say what about the aryan brotherhood, what about asian-pacific gangs, some own gangs. by and large los angeles we're talking about latino and african-american. >> host: does your ethnicity determine which can you may or may not belong to? >> guest: it is becoming more elastic. it used to, but gains by four different members and want to become bigger. i know now that mexican gangs and central american games will take black members. african american games will.

so the real answer to your question is it it depends. also, there are now taking female members. that did not used to be the case a couple of generations ago. >> host: house central to the lives of adolescence and young people in south-central l.a. are these gangs? >> guest: that is a great question. it depends. they are still there. they still -- not to the extent i have seen in the past. does it is still there, still part of the history, still part of the generation , but with the young people i see coming of they are beginning to perceive of alternatives. is a slow, slow process. nothing changes overnight, but i have seen some real change. the other thing is, will be honest with you, a lot of the geisha south and east

los angeles to have migrated. then along her are just in los angeles. they've gone to san bernardino, as far away as las vegas. but i think we need to understand, there are still games, but they're relocated jeff. >> host: what are some of those alternatives that you spoke of that they can see alternatives? >> guest: welcome to the city of los angeles under took a very, very aggressive prevention program a little over five years ago during the tenure of mayor antonio vieira us up. and that was city sponsored prevention. that has had an impact. there are also many, many nonprofit agencies that have labored very long and hard it in south los angeles and these los angeles, and they are finally seeing some fruits of their labor communities and schools, the

community center incentive will. they have worked with one or two generations of gang members. those gang members are now having children or have had children, and they're trying to get them. hermosa involved with a program that it is reaping some benefit called project father heard which is sponsored by children's institute ink. it is a program that helps fathers who were formally incarcerates or former gang members really learn how to father their children. so when you say, let's change that, it is not any one thing but a number of different programs and force is coming together. >> host: what is only industries? >> guest: there is the official meeting. it is the largest gang intervention program in the united states of america and certainly in the city of los angeles. it sees more gang involvement and women. it is, of course, seem more

than any other organization in the country. what it is is that dream of father greg boyle who was a jazz with priest to begin working with gang members three decades ago. and was started in that tiny little shoebox office grew into what is now a huge enterprise trains gang members for jobs, provides therapies and have a series of businesses or social enterprises were the gang members are employed. for example, the home they -- on what date reword remembers when the distress baking, also the home rock cafe where father greg has waitresses with attitude and learn to serve and learn about the food services. are really do feel like i have arrived because avatar car named after there. they have touched a removal.

they have millions of services, everything from a unit of the project father heard that is there talking about helping these gang members i have a parent of children. they have education of glasses, to bring to my gang members get their cds, high-school diplomas. it is quite extraordinary. >> host: is there a percentage of the crime committed in south-central or in l.a. that you can attribute to a gang activity ? >> guest: it depends on who you talk to. and it really is the majority of violent crime in the past was gang-related. it but it is a difficult thing to define because here's the deal i take your wallet. i am a gang member. is that a gang crime or my just checking your wallet? rice let's say i1 of the

plaza de or one of the crips and our desire because you're one of the crips and going to beat you up. should those two crimes be classified the exact same way? one is clearly gang-related. the other is a petty theft. so it is tricky. that is the answer to your question. violent crime in los angeles tennis to be gang-related. certainly in the past the majority of homicides in los angeles were in gang territories and believed to be gang-related. >> host: i just saw on the news they triple murder in van nuys. i did not see any details. could that be a gang activity? >> first of all, talked about in the media, i sure have learned to listen with the third year. they will sell the media, we are trying to rule whether or not it is being related. there are also signs that

suggest it may be gang-related. number one, if it is in a gang territory where gangs are known to function and possibly to work, that is number one. number two, if it does involve young men will it continue to be the greatest perpetrators but the greatest target in violent crime perry of the elderly. so i tend to look at to it and falls, someone who is middle aged or someone who is 21. this is somebody, is there some sign of violence? and also, might there be a sign that it is black on black, black and brown, brown and black. involved in some way. i want to stress to you, i the one he to watch tv and think bang go. there has been an

involvement here. there are things to suggest that when you hear it on the news. sometimes i will hear someone drove by in a car in south l.a. and certain cross sections. i will turn to my husband and so it sounds like one of the neighborhoods is involved. >> host: do you have an idea of how many gang members there are in los angeles? a little number? >> the official story is that -- the official statistics are that in the city of los angeles there somewhere between 40 to 60,000 gang members sibila 40 is 63 the city population of 3 billion. the metro area speech to the county, what you're talking about the estimates are 80 to 100,000. we have to be reasonable about that. some people have been identified as gang members in years ago.

no longer active but still counted. another thing is coming gang members are now popping up saying, i want my card costs. so the numbers are -- >> host: what do you teach your? >> guest: how to save the world and then wakes. i teach a class. i teach undergraduates and graduates. and with undergraduates, a course called intervention to social welfare, westin and -- was often referred to as the jury how to change the world class. i bring in gang members. i bring in people and the child welfare system, the elderly, and the students engage with individuals and. at the graduate level i am privileged to teach both research and also in the

research methods class prices got an interview gang members their religion have to take history and find out what the trajectory of these individuals and of with. >> host: could a middle-aged white guy and a woman in a red dress go anywhere they wanted in south central and pacific? >> guest: no, absolutely not. first of all, yeah, if we went down in the morning for nearly we would be relatively safe. now, everybody there would know we were there. in fact, i have a little cracked and make in my book. the unitas is given had a communications system of games and usher 9/11 would have happened. sort of a bad joke but is to say that their surveillance in its territory is excellent. if you and i went into

selfless and angeles there will be people taxing the to millie's laypeople who looked out of place where got here. now, if we went down its and collected by we will be taking more of a chance. however, if we went the company by someone who was president of navy who was in a gain or just a resident, then it would be a complete response. we would still be seen as outsiders who be seen as somebody navigating a passage into the area. >> host: is there a game president, would of directors, erica? >> guest: there is a hierarchy, with they would never see a president or board of directors. there is. people refer to a shot collars, lieutenants, no particular levels.

leaders of leaders and then there are soldiers. and that is the knowledge of it is used. hierarchy of sorts. it's disorganized crime. so it rains and are rewarded raw or how i started out, i learned it is not that different. and what i learned is very, very smart people, to kill the people and give planners are rewarded in gang life just the way they would be. >> host: have you felt threatened while working, setting? >> guest: no. that may be partially denial also, what i did, i was very, very careful to align myself with people with leaders as well as former gang members -- i don't want to say they were my body

guards, would have tended me, took care of me, vouch for me. also a couple of at it factors. because i have worked as a social worker, believe it or not there were people in the housing development is unremembered me. and they were no grandparents. so they remembered me from three generations back. part of the community. the other thing is no. when i said these folks are smart they have great cross sectors. and they know who is there to do them harm. they know who is there to understand the work with them and read and i think they felt through my motives no, i may be naive and there may have been dangerous did not perceive the letter did not feel it. on the other hand, i was cautious. it nudges show up and say, hey, i'm interested in

learning about a gang members. you can't do that. you will be granted any axis . >> host: professor at ucla, author of this book decompress is the publisher. if you want to learn how the bloods and crips and ms 13 were formed here in los angeles. >> guest: of alameda and for no street. down next to downtown los angeles in chinatown >> ucla professor tim groseclose said that with book tv to discuss his book left turn in which he argues that there is a quantifiable liberal bias of the media today. he says the overall degree of

this liberal bias is > that degree of conservative bias bounden media outlets like to fox news. this interview, part of book tv college series was recorded at ucla. it is about 20 minutes. >> host: when you worry that term liberal media what does that mean to you? >> guest: welcome and my bucket is a very precise notion. i actually come up with a number of this as a liberal or conservative the media outlet is, and it is based on a number of roll call vote studies that scientists have used for all longtime. i call the political positions. there are lots of other measures. on the scale that i use as euro is very conservative, bob and michele bachmann. it would hundred is about and nancy pelosi, and a 50 is my estimate of the average american voter. it turns out it is about like a blue dog democrat or republican, something like and all of.

and so but i do in this book is compared the content of the media and compare it to speeches of politicians. and then i tried to say things like, does this sound more liberal or conservative than arlen specter? and then i have a statistical method that gives a number to the content. say it is a 75 which is what i find the new york times as. terms of what that means is that a new york times is a law like that joe lieberman speech. the lot of people : the moderate he is actually about a 75 on the scale midway between. about like a joe lieberman speech. it's a 75 on that scale. there are various outlets that i

computes numbers for it. a report the mall. >> host: give us one example of how you got joe lieberman to 75 end of the new york times is the 75. >> guest: a carry. so this is maybe a recent example, but in my book the main way that i judge hal liberal or conservative the speeches or how liberal or conservative the media content is is look at the tank citations. and so i have a list of 200 think tanks ranging from the heritage foundation to the economic policy institute, think, center for budget and policy priorities of lsi. i just kind of count the ratio of those. you know, is a new york times siding with the heritage foundation more or the center on budget and policy priorities. and they would probably have something like a four to one ratio. i am sure they side with the

center on budget and policy priorities more than the heritage foundation. and then by that method it turns out that joe lieberman what about the same ratio. he is also siding with the center on budget and policy priorities morgan the heritage foundation. about the same ratio, the new york times conscience tells about like a joe lieberman speech. >> should news media content be at 50? >> well, a in some ways. i actually don't say that in the book. in some ways to fight just to be called an unbiased but my method, by my definition unbiased means about 50. and so something like c-span would be almost about 50 partly because a lot of your content is just speeches by members of congress. representative speeches, balance the speeches which i think c-span does commit c-span would be exactly 50 or very near 50.

so i would say yes. if you want to be called unbiased by my measure 50 peter think it's help will have arrange violets. sunday to have the washington times which is about of 30 on this all the way up to the new york times. when i did this it was always close to 80 on that scale. measured their content. i'm sure there would be even higher than 80. >> where would fox news b? >> only one show on fox, a special report. building in anchorage. and i think it was something like 39. it was definitely right of center, but not far right of center. the average republican speech to be something like a 15 on the scale. so the break here and show would be not quite centrist, but right

leading but definitely not as far right as the average republican. his show would be about like a susan, speech, the main senator who had some conservative scholar rhino. she is not really conservative. i will call her right leaning moderate. >> host: what is the methodology of the map that you used to develop their scale? >> that is kind of evolved. cut myself on the back, it took a lot of work. it took -- i was poised to -- basically a statistics major as an underground. mesmeric and computational sciences. but that training alone would not have been enough to do this. there were some courses that i took in graduate school. i used those courses, what is called maximum likelihood estimation. it is a technical term, but it is something that she learned in the second or third year in an economics department, maybe the

first second year if your in the statistics ph.d. corporate. i was proud to say that i actually used some of the things i learned as a ph.d. student. >> well, is this written for phd students? >> no. in no, i had my mom in mind. she was an interior decorating major and oklahoma state university. i was thinking of for runnerup this. now, it started with an academic article published in the quarterly journal of economics. that was. but i tried to take a map of it. one of my good friends is stephen, the writer economic spirit are met him when he was a grad student. i have verified this for him. the first person to a predictable win a nobel prize. for economics, maybe i can do it . write something that is based on some technical stuff but you tried to present it in a way

that lay people can understand. so i try to make it so that my goal was to make it be -- beach reading. my wife says that it is not. that was my goal. >> host: is this a blast at the media? >> guest: somewhat. i tried to be objective. an epilogue. i did say one thing in that was kind of a blast. i said i spent the first ten years of my career studying politicians, the congressional scholar. i found that the more i study politicians and more respected than. i studied the journalists for the last -- i'll notify said eight or ten years. the more i study journalists the less i respect him. a bit of a date. in aspen that chapter. have journalists could be a little bit more like politicians are respected. a little bit more transparent

about their own ideology. the other is, if you look at surveys of journalists, the vote something like 92-8 for the democrats. i am sure in the average is room it is just filled liberals. it probably interact very little of conservatives. meanwhile, a liberal politician must interact with conservative politicians. they are stuck together in the house and senate. if it wants to get anything done they have to interact with the other side. so maybe a couple minor digs of the media. >> host: in what ways does the journal's personal bias affect his riding and how would that affect -- >> guest: yes. the key thing. i call it the distortion method of bias. and what i mean is that i don't think that the journalists are lying to a spirit don't think they're telling intrudes on

either side. by and large almost everything they say is true. with the bias is with they don't report, crimes of a mission. so i think that often happens when just thinking, is this story interesting or not. for instance, the media research center just reported -- the elected to stories, this recent been gauzy memo were the white house basically admitted that they were putting the talking points for susan rice, that it was this youtube video. and as of this was a bombshell news. at the same time we have this los angeles clippers owner, sterling at think his name was. and both are equally true stories. sterling was a racist, but the white house looks like they were playing politics trying to make themselves look good for the election. both are true, but if you are a conservative he will say, no, that white house memo story was much more important.

that is the one we should be reported. if you're a liberal you will say, no, the sterling story. and so in your selection of stories i think liberals will select one set while conservatives will select a different set. and that is one part of how bias comes in. another is the think tanks. so i suppose that a lot of new york times journalists will say, those acts at the heritage foundation. meanwhile probably lots of people at fox news saying the sex of the center and budget and policy priorities. so i think their ideology will be affected. >> host: professor tim groseclose is the author of k-9. are you a conservative personally? >> guest: i am. thirteen. chapter five. and discuss all of my views,

which i think journalists should do. i hold myself to the same standard that i suggest strollers should be held two. >> host: is it a problem that we have bias in the media? people for the most part know what they're getting, don't they ? >> guest: i should say this. even though parlay the average journalists is something like 80 or 9100 on my schedule, that is their political quotient, where they feel in their heart. their reporting is much more moderate. the mainstream media is like 75- 65, may be high fifties even though i think in their heart they would like to report somewhere in the 80's and 90's. i think journalists are moderating themselves. in the same thing is probably true of fox news. is there a problem with the buyers? i actually think that it is good to have a variety. i do think there is a problem that among journalists is

overwhelmingly on the liberal side. if you look at surveys of of something like 92-8 for democrats. in a healthy democracy it would be more like 75-25, maybe 5050. >> host: chapter eight, a conservative injected into a liberal news from the topics he might cover. >> found this great story about a woman and catherine kirsten, a reporter in minneapolis who better job at the minneapolis star tribune. it turns out that the job came about as an experiment. whenever editor said we should have a conservative at the news room. she hired this woman. in fact, this article i read something about when the cell phone rings joy to the world gloria's come everyone knows who's off on his ring.

and this article talked about what it would be like for her, what was. i called her up. she was pleasant, give me an interview. while i was interviewing her she told me about this story that basically she gave this group for. it was this case of the six bombs flying an airplane, may not be as exciting now, but it was a case where she broke the story about this. master for conservative value led her to learn about the story. she went on and on. go, yes. of course. if i have liberal values i would not have my antenna up to be suspicious. would not have done this extra legwork to pursue this. so it is mainly just a lot of character it's about her, what it was like being in the newsroom and our conservative views actually influence to reporting. i think the same is true on the other side. you have liberal views.

>> you have said that 92-8 or so have reported that -- supported the democratic nominee for president. why so many? >> people ask me that. you know, it is not in the book. i have come to think that i think there is a something that, the dna of liberals makes him want to go into certain jobs or something in the dna of conservatives that makes them want to go into other jobs. army officer. the liberals just don't want to pursue the. lots of owning the small-time laundromat, the small businesses , something that conservatives ought to do. meanwhile, anything that seems to have very little structure, very little rules, liberals want to go into that field, academia, the arts, and journalism. i think that -- i don't think it is any sort of conspiracy that

is keeping conservatives out of the news room. it's mainly just self selection. >> host: what do you teach your? >> guest: political science. i have a joint appointment in the economics department. teach economic methods for political scientists. also statistical methods. also -- >> host: does your buyers come through in the class from? >> guest: i try not to. i ask all my students to compete would we call the aba's court, the americans for democratic action. i have all my students look at these two boats, account of what gives them their a the store and then teach the whole quarter. and at the end say, okay, now assigned to get the professors. and it most of them -- they would be over the place.

zero : under. he took the average, they were guessing that i was a left-wing moderate. now, i tried to be right down the middle. i was shooting for 50. i think that a lot of the reason they guest left-wing moderate is that most professors lane to the left. it probably guessed laughed. but in the congress at least i do pretty well. >> host: with -- for your students can aggravate trends? de. >> guest: well, this is ucla. one time i did somewhat of a poll. i found it was something like 75-25. a liberal. this was a think it was the bush. election. 75-25. that was about the same as santa monica. the beverly hills is about the same. beverly hills will not be quite

as liberal. it's a reflection of the l.a. area which is pretty liberal. kids are probably to five college kids are little more liberal than they will be when they're older. probably is slightly more to the left than the average person the class that i teach, some kids it gets around that i am the one or one of the few republicans on campus. some of them will take my course because of that. the other thing, because i do these exercises where we are a mock congress. it just does not work if it is 75-25. would like to get the numbers to was something like 5545. i go to the republicans, i beg some of them to take my course. with that i can get the numbers up to something like 40 percent republican, 16% to regret.

and then after baking a few democrats to switch it something like 45-55. it's pretty close to balance the >> host: by the time this interview airs, tipping in may of 44 team, you will be added to for university. >> guest: that's right. we will be a patriot with a capitol p. >> host: wire you going out east? >> guest: well, used to have a job there up of lots of friends, very fond memories of george mason and fairfax. a bit of it, i have to say, little uncomfortable at times the one of the only conservatives on campus. i had a suspicion one time when being reviewed for raise that it may have heard me. don't know if that is true. george mason is of fairly balanced. their economics department definitely means to the right

and so does the law school. the rest of the school is pretty close to other universities, but i would say it is balanced. that was a big attraction. >> host: working on another book? >> guest: i am. yes. this is another reason. started this book before i got a job offer at george mason, but this is an expert as they have the time that i was on the admissions committee at ucla, the faculty oversight committee for admissions and sauce and illegal behavior. this is to be a very controversial book. cheating, and insiders report on the use of race in admissions at ucla. you imagine i am not going to make friends with that but. so i think i am pretty certain the would have taken the george mason job anyway, but that definitely help. >> host: and we have been talking with tim groseclose, future george mason university professor to a left turn is the name of his