>> what we can all do to save america's future presidential proposes u.s. decline and consensus solution appeals to every decency and common sense. this program is about an hour. >> host: doctor carson, welcome. i think the best way to start before we delve into the buck is to delve into you.

you have a very inspirational story. tell me where you grew up. >> guest: i grew up in detroit and a couple of years in boston also. my mother got married when she was 13 and rural tennessee and she and my father moved to detroit. he was a factory worker and discovered she was a bigamist and she had the responsibility at that point with only a third grade education trying to raise us on our own. we were not particularly good students. any success i've had i have to contribute to god and my mother.

she's always seeking wisdom and came up with the idea of opening my eyes and looking around you and she noticed the homes that she cleaned the people didn't watch. if i can give my boys to stop looking at the tv all day long and start reading. she basically restricted us to two or three tv programs per week and with all that spare time we had to read two books a piece and submits to her a written program which she couldn't read.

>> host: how come they know the answers? but as i started reading all of a sudden the teacher would ask the question and it got me excited and i got to the point where i was reading a book. i went from being the dummy to the top of the class in a year and a half. that's what sparked the interest in politics. i went on from there and read

every animal book ever and then i started reading about plants and rocks because we lived near the railroad tracks and we could get boxes of rocks and pretty soon i could identify any rock. >> host: you were a scientist and didn't realize it. now i'm starting to make the connection here. that may be sparked your interest in science. >> guest: he said does anybody know what this is? i didn't raise my hand because nobody ever raised their hand. i couldn't be leave. i couldn't possibly know the answers answer so no i really d. but i said it is and they didn't know whether they should be laughing or whether they should be impressed into the teacher said that's right and then i explained how english was formed and they were just shocked but i was more shocked than anybody

because it dawned on me at that moment into the teacher invited me to come -- >> host: would agree that despite we? >> guest: fifth grade. they got me involved in taking care of the animals and i started looking through the microscope and discovering the whole world of protozoa. >> host: what was the teacher's name? you never forget. you have those one or two teachers and universal gift. how long ago was this now? >> guest: no more than 50 years ago. i went back to that school and this was several years ago with good morning america and i wanted to trace my roots if she was still there. i wanted him to show the animals because he had a tarantula and

fish and all these things and he said we had to get rid of those things along time ago. >> host: do you have a relationship with your father? >> guest: dot a. strong relationship. we would see them periodically. the last time i saw them was the day i got married. >> host: the second family, did you have a relationship with them, half brothers and sisters? >> guest: i kind of look at the big picture. you know, my mother tried to make up for all that and my father was involved with drugs and alcohol, winning. you can't have more than one. that's the problem. he probably wasn't the best influence on me so enrich respect even though i was devastated as a kid now i realize that perhaps that would not have been the best thing for me.

first of all bring back some fiscal responsibility. a lot of people blame the union for what happened to detroit but the unions do what they do. their members want a better deal. but the executives to fix the auto companies they have a one-year, 15 year plan. they understand all this and they know that if they kept conceding to the union that eventually there would be a problem that they kept doing it anyway because they knew they would have a golden parachute and it would be long gone. >> you blame as much the executives. >> guest: it's the same thing i see around the country. we keep letting it be somebody

else's problem. >> host: you've got this spark othe sparkof enthusiasm among te conservatives. have you been surprised that it's come from the conservatives? did you assume that you were a conservative? i get the impression you were not always a conservative. >> guest: like most young people growing up in a piece like detroit when i went off to college i was radical. >> host: did you go to school? >> guest: i went to yale. there was a black panther rally that came through all this kind of stuff but that's just the way that it was at that time during our history. and radicalism was very much

accepted among young people at that point. but i considered myself really more of a logical person than i am a conservative or liberal or anything. i'm not all that fond of labels. but i say most of the problems are easily solved if we could just throw away the labels. i indicated in the book i would love a situation where party designation was not on the ballot and you actually know who that person was. >> host: in a lot of cities the mayor's races that is the case and it's not surprising to me. guess who is getting stuff done these days? the mayors. they don't have the baggage that comes with the political party at this point. so, you go to yale and when did you decide i'm going to be a doctor? >> guest: i decided that when i was 8-years-old. i used to love the stories in church. they seemed like the most noble people on earth.

great personal sacrifice bringing mental, physical and spiritual healing and i said that's what i'm going to do. but when i turned 13 i decided i would rather be rich so at that point i wanted to be a psychiatrist. >> host: you decided psychiatrist make better money than -- >> guest: they had these offices. also on the tv programs you would see the psychiatrist's. i started reading psychology today. everybody would bring me their problems and -- i majored in psychology in college. i had the very professors and it was really pretty exciting. when i got to medical school, i said everybody has a special gifts and talents.

i thought about my life and realized i had a tremendous amount of imp and coronation. >> host: a surgeon that is the key. >> guest: and the ability to think in three dimensions is essential for a mere row surgeon because you are dealing with a nebulous mass. you have to be able to keep in mind where the tracks are even though you can't see them. if you don't have good three-dimensional cells. >> host: have long have you had that? >> guest: some of the jobs that i had done and performed extremely well working in the steel factory. >> host: what did you do it in a steel factory? >> guest: operator right after i finished college. you are driving these enormous beams of steel and dropping them intin the bed of a truck. they let me do that after one day of practice.

i said these guys see something in me. >> host: baseball something or they were like you are the next guy you. >> guest: a lot of the ones that worked permanently didn't get to do that. but as i thought about it i said -- a lot of people up it was strange because at the time there had been eight black mirror surgeons in the history of the world, and that to me i didn't even think about that. i said this is where i'm going to go. >> host: basically in some ways the rotation, the one rotation where people can identify the best or the plastic surgeon rotations in some ways because it is such a -- you have to know that they are precise at the time. is there some truth to that? >> guest: a lot of my career

was developed around the facial surgery with the plastic surgeons which is why i have an appointment and plastic surgery. >> host: do you miss that? >> guest: i miss the way that it used to be. >> host: what does that mean? >> guest: there were a lot of things in the process that were changing. and, you know, most people when they chose medicine is, they chose it because you have a great deal of autonomy. you can sort of figured out i'm going to solve this problem and in the days come in the early days there would be a kid from bolivia and didn't have resources and just override it. the hospitals had enough that it was okay but once the insurance company is brought to the point they could dictate how much they were going to pay and hospitals

no longer had a margin and then you want to do what? are you kidding me? and it's just changing so much in the bureaucracy so one of my goals in life is to try too medicine fun again. i want the doctors to get up in the morning and be excited about going to work. >> host: should doctors be getting rich quick. >> guest: i think they should be well compensated. which is a very different thing. i know a lot of rich people. >> host: who should be paid more, teachers or doctors? >> guest: i would say it's an irrelevant question. doctors spent a very long time training the doctors.

they could to college and" and internships and residency. >> host: you say that it's 12 years of simply post graduate work to be a practicing neurosurgeon. >> guest: it takes a long time and there's a lot of sacrifice involved. even once you do start working, you are working extraordinary hours, and think you've got the tort issue. with neurosurgeon that's particularly bad because everybody thinks that things are supposed to be perfect, and you're dealing with very high risks. and, you know, that was one of the reasons that i had a problem with so-called health reform that doesn't include tort reform. >> host: the president would talk about it when bush came to shove. let me ask you about your christianity is true of the bo

book. science and faith sometimes collide. you have this highly scientific mind and you are a deeply religious person and that doesn't compute. there is a difference. it tends to be more substance and a lot of silly stuff has been carried out. however people that have a deep relationship have a tendency to do things in a different way.

science and faith can be quite compatible. i've had some interesting discussions with nobel laureates who say how can a person in intelligence believed that god created earth and heaven and i say how can a person of your intelligence believe that some again from nothing is explained to me exactly how that works. >> guest: i said i will give you something. and you're going to tell me that it excludes and we have a perfectly organized system to the point that we can predict 70 cents? it's rotating going around so that just happened, right? it's over a long enough. co. of time and that is what

will happen. so if i blow the hurricane in the junkyard over billions of years and billions of times and eventually after one of them there will be 747. i said well that's what you're saying basically. and you are welcome for that. no problem with that. it just requires a lot more. i believe that god created commanders. and i find that muc it much easo believe because you have to recognize that it takes somebody like charles darwin who as you probably know started out of the seminary. but she got to the point where he goes off to the islands have start seeing stuff he says that

as evidence of evolution. while it depends on how you look at it. now, three years before which he didn't know at the time the only ones that survived were able to break through the ceilings to extract nutrition. so, what i actually believe this happening is we have a creator that's given the ability to adapt to the environments we have to start all over again. >> host: so you believe in some part of darwinism? >> guest: by belief in adapting with the ability to adapt to the environment. and if i've are the creator i would give them that ability. i don't know the answer to that. it says in the beginning god created heaven and earth,

period. >> host: i had some people say one day could have been a billion years. you're saying 6,000 years is that something that might be -- >> guest: there's nothing that tells us how old the earth is in the bible. it could be billions of-years-old. also, i believe that god can do stuff we can't do, so if he wanted to create something that had a huge she could do that. >> host: suit your scientific education you feel like that that does not conflict with your -- >> guest: i have never had an instance where my belief has conflict with my inability to be a good neurosurgeon. >> host: he was a surgeon with

a god complex and it was a thata stereotype of surgeons. is that just an unfair hollywood view of most surgeons? >> guest: there is no question there are some surgeons to have fairly large egos and in fact it is especially select for people like that. they are not going to become surgeons. it does so with that kind of people that i know a lot of incredibly caring and decent people. >> host: i guess i can get why they might have a god complex because they are the only one that can fold a problem in their head and that's where this comes from a little bit. >> guest: and it's unfortunate that -- >> host: how did you prevent that? you were at johns hopkins. this is that you eat of the elite. how did you keep your head from

getting -- >> guest: because i personally remembered and still remember where i came from and i also recognize that there were a lot of people involved in virtually every thing and i make it clear to people and i tell everybody there are people involved. my mother if she hadn't given me what i needed i would be working in the factory sweeping the floor not that there's anything wrong with those people, but i wouldn't have realized potential with some of the very complex operations. think about the first set of conjoined twins that kind of thing had never been done.

i had to consult with a surgeon who was extremely good and understood the whole concept of the hypothermic arrest hell did we work that together and work with the plastic surgeons hell were we ever going to get this covered ask a lot of people besides myself involved in those kind of things. >> host: going to get to the deep part of this book but where is your scientific background about climate change? >> guest: it tells me if you look at the earth at any given point in time that editors are either going upward air going down over a specific period of time. as you may remember coming at you may be too young in the 70s, but i can't remember which one the new ice age is coming. it depends on what you look

like. that is the bottom line. >> host: we need to argue about how do we intelligently -- >> guest: . >> host: it's changed so we have to prepare for that. you have to make that policy decisions based on what you think is coming so that's the importance of figuring this out. >> guest: but it's also important not to get over involved in paranoia about it. our epa should be working in conjunction with our research facilities and industry to say how can we best utilize our natural resources and at the same time respect our

environment and saying we are not developing this or this because i don't think that is a wise use of our intellect and the resource. >> host: remember the concern about the hole in the ozone only here and what we thought the problem was and basically the entire industry changed and it closed. so this is a case where the problem was identified by the solution was identified and willing to behold we've moved on into the industry adapted. you do leave that we should pursue some of the scientific research. >> guest: but we need to take a balanced approach. we need to be -- as you saw from reading the book i would say that it just got everything. and remember when i said that the national in order for an

eagle to fly high it needs two wings and if you do everything in a lopsided way my way or the highway, you are going to crash. >> host: this is interesting you were a highly intellectual person. you went to the best schools and taught at the best schools and you are concerned about elitism. explain. >> guest: the reason i'm concerned about elitism is because you see it in a lot of the universities right now who believe that they are sort of the beacon of light for everything. and anybody that doesn't agree with them only do they not want to hear them they don't want anybody to hear them. if they have a business, they want to shut it down if they have a reputation they want to destroy it. where would that come from unless you just believe that you are the cats meow. >> host: so you could get his

academic elitism. what we ask you this when did you first say i'm into politics? when did you sor use were to fie that transition from scientists and highly acclaimed surgeons saying i want to get into the political framework? >> guest: i don't know that there was a dramatic moment. if you look back through the books that i've written over the last 20 to 30 years, you would see that i've been talking about these issues for decades. if you go into the looks i wrote in 1999, you will see the whole reform program lead out of there. the thing that's changed me into the perception of people was the national in 2013 because i just

spoke my mind and why i was concerned about it because i very much loved a nation that we live in. and i don't want to see it fundamentally change. >> host: you have an interesting challenge in your book that is a sort of concern that i have and how people consume too much of only one side. if they are liberals they follow those and we watch one channel here and there and you say pretend you are a member of a different political party and make a rational defense of one of the issues. so i'm going to put you on the spot here. >> guest: everyone should have health insurance and we need to find a way to make that possible.

anderson, you know, we have a lot of really bright people, we can probably figure out better than the private sector and we certainly knows better than the people themselves. but they push a little bit more here. what do you think were good for? was there any part that you could keep? certainly the lifetime limits. and -- >> host: so you sort of understand a young family having a pediatric neurosurgery for their child that is bankrupt of. >> guest: pre-existing diseases excluding people, those are horrible things and in fact i talked to the administration official before the thing was passed and i said this is good stuff in here. i said i agree with it and i

think virtually everybody would agree. why not take those things and make them the foundation of health care reform. it would be a bipartisan effort into that lets build it together because healthcare is something we all need. why can't we work on this together? if you push it through one party and you have the unanimous disagreement on you are going to do is create and not have cooperation for anybody. why would you do that? and he said you're probably right but this is washington and this is politics. that's the problem. when we take these important issues and make them into politics and we just keep polarizing and a wise man once said of the house divided against itself cannot stand. why do we have to keep doing this? why do i call that one nation?

because i think that our strength is in our unity and not in our decision. we, the american people are not just -- >> host: you would have made the first goal what you are signing is the reform and the insurance industry. it was the next step of figuring out how to expand and make and get the universal access. >> guest: we spend twice as much per capita as the next closest nation. it's not that we don't have adequate resources. we need to be adding more money into it. that is foolishness. we need to think about how do we design it in a reasonable way and that's how we identify the whole savings accounts. they have control of what they are going to spend their money on.

walk me through that. how is it funded? >> guest: through a variety of different ways. the same money that we spend four medicaid -- >> host: that would go into the savings account. >> guest: and you don't lose it if you don't use it and there are no limits on it. so, all kinds of -- remember the first party? there is a number of ways and it cuts throughout your lifetime. i also give people the ability -- >> guest: basically at the beginning fo first they hand you money. some of it is for child care and some of it is through this. would you put some government money and at the beginning? you've got about a concert maybe $5,000. >> guest: people who need money for them.

if we take all of the people that are needy in this country and we put money and we are so going to fall short of what we are spending now with the inefficient programs. here is the key thing. people began to be responsible. you need to have something done. remember when the food program first started. a lot of people said you can't do that because people will be responsible. there is no way they are going to be able to use that is appropriately. >> host: that's where they had to put a limit on it. >> guest: i'm going to buy some hamburger and hamburger helper and learn how to stretch it out and make it work. they would do the same thing if they have control of the health savings account and that is what bringing the medical system into the free-market economic forum which would control the pricing

quality. >> host: it sounds like the hospitals are as much of a problem as anybody because the hospital will charge of some ridiculous amount. my father has a disease and my mother would go through the bill line by line and find a double of things and send it to the insurance company to let them know, the paper charging crazy amounts of money because there was somebody paying for it. >> guest: the cost may only be $2,000 industry that the cost down the insurance company would pay $300. therefore, if we put 20,00 20,0n maybe they would pay us. it's all games. >> host: how do you bring reform to the hospital? this is a case where it sounds -- that was a tough one to crack. they ended up working with insurance companies.

>> guest: you will go to the other one that makes this one start acting like this one. that's the way the free market works. >> host: you think the only way to reform the health care system is to basically almost get out of the insurance business. >> guest: you can't have all of these artificial influences. >> host: advocating for no insurance. >> guest: 80% of everything that you have to deal with can be paid through but you have to remember that people do have major and catastrophic issues that come up and that's what your insurance is for and that's what it always should have been for. >> host: those don't exist anymore and they don't sell them for the health insurance but --

>> guest: that's what you get for the big diseases and the big problem and take that other stuftheir stuff offof the insury completely? >> guest: you sprain your ankle and think you need an x-ray or need a physical exam that is coming out of the hsa. birth control pills, hsa. so what happens, you are not infringing upon your major medical what happens to the cost? postcode should come down. >> guest: blitz be in the real world where we have insurance lobbyists and companies that do have the hospitals that have gotten rich. healthcare is among the fastest-growing sector in the economy that is considered a money maker and i say semi because if it without medicaid how do you enact your plan in the world we live? >> guest: keep in mind what i'm talking about insurance and

insurance is insurance. it works basically the same way. so the home owners insurance if you have a high deductible, guess what happens to the price? it plummets. if you want everything taken care of that is what happens. same thing exactly the same. >> host: some of the language that you've used as certainly -- you talk about this i believe you call it that pc police a little bit areas but it did at thdefend the votes, so why not curtail some of your language? >> guest: what offends people that i sit? postcode it depends on the point of view. there is all sorts of ways to get offended. >> guest: when i talk about political correctness, i'm talking about not being able to express how you actually feel. >> host: so some would say

this is to compare the national debt slavery is doing a disservice to slavery. >> guest: what i would say about that is the whole hypersensitivity thing. a lot of things don't bother people but then did you hear what he said? you should be offended about that. this is the same stuff that used to go on on the playground. did you hear what he said? come on. we don't have to deal with that. we have real major problems that we have to deal with. the reason i talk about enslaving our young people is because this level of debt i don't think most people can't even comprehend. if you try to pay back the team truly in dollars at 10 million a day it would take 5,000 years.

the only reason we can sustain that is because the u.s. dollar is the reserve currency of the world. what if there were not and that's a designation that generally goes with the number one economy in the world which we have been since the 1870s. we are going to lose it soon because -- >> host: china is a mess though. >> guest: but they are growing at 6%. how much are we growing? postcode two to three. >> guest: i don't believe they are going to become the same kind. look at the banking system. however, here's the issue. they are already talking about it, about creating the affair so instead of the u.s. dollar being the basis it would be a hodgepodge of things.

it would deplete us from the ability to print money. what happens when you can't print money and you have the kind of debt that we have. stop and think about that for a moment. >> host: you talk about political correctness and a look at the last 30 years and think when we grew up we have more honest discussions than we do today. something happens and we say we are going to have a conversation and we don't. there is some fear they are so let me start first with this. do you think there's some -- do you believe some people are against the president simply because of his skin? >> guest: i'm sure there are some people who are against. >> host: . >> guest: i don't think it is a large number of people anymore.

they are very much influenced by their perceptions. if you interpret everything i did and they say okay i can see that, too mac. somebody's always looking for the race no matter what you say to them. it really hasn't been a big factor for me if you walk into an auditorium filled with people you don't have a problem, they have a problem because they will all cringe and wonder if you are going to sit next to them and

you can sit wherever you want. if somebody has a problem with it, enjoy. i have more important things to do. i don't think it has hurt me or benefited me a lot. and i think in the profession i've spent my whole life and as a neurosurgeon i fully recognize early on in my career. i would feel a little bit better but by the time i got through talking to them and said here's the problem, here's how we are going to handle it, you would see that completely melt away. >> host: you would argue it is

so result oriented. you enter the perfect place if you want to have the numbers in the science members that is going to trump everything else. >> guest: there was a procedure that i started advocating which was very, very controversial. people were complaining in maryland medicalization they demonstrated not a single person had died and there's very littly little on the way of competition. people have their own set of facts and it is a set of half-truths on the side into the question is everybody's grounded a little bit of the truth enough to defend their position. i want to go to an economic issue.

you advocate for the flat tax that everybody has to contribute something. >> guest: i said it could be 10%. but it needs to be proportional. the reason i use 10% is because it is easy to -- >> host: fair enough. >> guest: it can be whatever it needs to be to separate the government needs to be proportional because what you have to recognize is by having this very skewed system with all of these deductibles and things there are a lot of people that make enormous amounts of money and pay very little in taxes. >> host: . >> guest: and we don't have to do that. and on the other hand, i belief that it is insulting for people who make small amounts of money to say you don't have to do anything. i will take care of you. i believe that if they really

stopped and thought about it, even though they wen wouldn't be contributing a lot bigger still carrying their weight. >> host: with me propose a counter argument on the group of folks that don't pay federal income tax if they go to a casino or they buy a lottery ticket in some ways all of this gaming praises on the poor. they are spending more money funding the schools and whether it is detroit have decided to go gambling or another place they are putting tax dollars into the pockets. they are putting tax money. so there are ways that this group that while they are not writing a check to the federal government committee are contributing arguably to the situation than the rich. >> host: . >> guest: it is this complex tax system. if it has simple and easy to

figure out, first of all we are going to have a predictable amount of money that we are going to bring in. we will know what we need in order to run the government. now the other thing that you might have noticed, i am not a big proponent of the government. why do i say that? we have statistics for that. if you took the income and they need $69,000 above 5.1 trillion was the federal budget clicks 2.5 trillion. 60% of everything the middle class and above make. does that make sense? of course it doesn't. so we need to reduce it and i would propose a very simple and fair way to reduce it. thousands of government employees retire every year. you can shift people around the don't replace them. we are down to a manageable size

and that doesn't fire anybody and then they can concentrate and do what they are supposed to do. >> host: and then something happens at the veterans affairs and the va hospital something isn't getting done and everybody's up in arms and then we find out there were not enough people to do this or that. all of these things in the grand scheme of things make sense if we know the way the government and politics work. how do you prevent the politics of the way the town works which is look at this problem in the federal government. we are going to have to fix it and everybody can do a republican has to throw money at it. >> guest: but a lot of people don't understand the fundamental problems. i've worked in the va hospitals. wonderful people, doctors, nurses ca, great people. wonderful patients. love them to death. huge amount of bureaucracy

between this group and this group. that's the problem. get rid of that stuff. honestly, there are some things the veterans hospitals do very well, posttraumatic stress that everybody else should be able to -- [inaudible] >> host: i want to end a little more political which is you used a c word i don't hear the conservatives using it as compromise. they want to use common ground. there's a difference between compromise and common ground which is the 10% that you both agree on. what's better in this case? you are obviously advocating for compromise. >> guest: when i talk about compromise, i'm talking about compromise and methods. it's not necessarily a compromise in the values and in

principles. >> host: this is in chapter ten. >> guest: when i look at democrats and republicans, except for the fringes there's this incredible group of hyper partisans that we should have to be. there's no doubt i can show you the numbers where people are identifying as liberal and conservative more people have really described the conservatives with awful names now and conservatives will do the same thing. the other side thinks they don't love america. that's -- that's where we've taken it too far. >> guest: it starts with leadership.

a leader is somebody that can take over a variety of individuals. create a vision and have everybody working together to accomplish that. if someone access to this group that group is against you and we would get everything done if it were not for them trade that is bad leadership. another aspect is multitasking. during the current administration we have had come in the previous administration there wasn't enough multitaski multitasking. it was focus on the war and trying to make sure that america didn't get attacked but you have to be able to ask. so, we have had a pretty long drought since we've had the kind of leadership. what number where we are. have we made mistakes? of course we've made mistakes.

this was the guy that came in at 44-years-old and look at the stuff that was going on. the missile crisis, the movement, the economy was horrible. unemployment and what did they do ask the used the bully pulpit to say within ten years we are going to put a man on the move and galvanized business across the project to start working together. we were able to -- he put his brother bobby in charge of the civil rights movement. he was very compassionate. he had his year to the ground. he was very smart. he faced down the russians and world war iii.

didn't blink. they did. look at the kind of leadership that he provided, which actually resulted in the disillusionment of the soviet union and the way of the cold war without firing a shot. working across the ioc was able to work with the democrats. kennedy was able to work with republicans. >> host: do you see any leadership right now in any department ex- >> guest: i think that there is potential. one of the reasons i tend to keep speaking out as i want people on both sides to

understand this. >> host: discovery clinton have potential? what did you think of bill clinton? >> guest: i was very pleased with the fact that he was able to work with the republicans to get the budget and of course the whole history on that. >> host: there is an argument maybe you can't do big budget deals with one party. it may be impossible. >> guest: so that was good. and as you probably know, i don't spend a lot of time talking about negative people. what i would rather do is spend time talking about how to solve the problem because we have the capability. we are a smart people. we are innovative people, that we have to create the environment that offers hard work and innovation. >> host: you bring up your self in this book that people

after the speech at "the wall street journal" among others said what about ben carson for president. so, i ask you why he would you consider it a? >> guest: the reason first of all certainly not my plan for retirement. a very long and arduous career. however, there's so many people every place i go is unbelievable the crowds to show up. i go to a book signing and people are out the door there are so many people they can't even get him. in. and they are all saying you've got to do this. and in the beginning i didn't take it that seriously but it just keeps happening. and i have to ask myself you know at some point do yo you hao put aside what you are planning and was?

>> host: you sai it in many ways you see this as a bit of god's plan. >> guest: absolutely. i believe that america despite what president obama said and because i've done a lot of reading about the founding of the nation all you have to do back is read the letters. the people that say the founders were deists had no idea what they were talking about. the evidence was quite clear. so i believe that it was those principles that lead us to the pinnacle of the world more than anybody else had ever experienced. >> host: you don't have a lot of fabulous things to say about the republican party so i wonder if after thinking about the potential candidacy if you ran with the remarkable running under the party banner.

>> guest: i wouldn't run as an independent. and i don't think i would be welcomed in the democratic party. >> host: there is a distrust among both parties right now. most of it is this populist thing of why am i getting a fair deal into the left thinks i'm not getting a fair deal is wall street's fault. you can make an argument that they are both right in some ways there is this and that's why i wondered if this boils over into more of the movement and people go outside of the structures if you want to reform what you want

to do -- >> guest: i would like to see the situation that we deemphasize. i just don't think -- i think it's nice to have. we are all americans. and i think we ought to be doing things that work for all of us. one of the things that offen ofs me to no end is when we take our constitution and say i'm going to enforce this purpose not this part. this group get an exemption but this one doesn't. i can tell you haven't made me feel. >> host: let me ask about the constitutionality. are you a strict -- crinkly resolve cases go this way. it's the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law, the constitution. is it a letter or this. when you decide whether something is constitutional?

it could delineate the responsibilities of the executive branch into the legislativand thelegislative bre judicial branch. so it is all other matters to be referred to the state. so if you just knew that, it could tell you a great deal about what we should and shouldn't be doing. >> host: a quick lightning round. gay marriage you've seemed to be pro- civil movement. what's the difference? >> guest: what i define very clearly as i said any two adults regardless of their orientation should have the right to bind themselves in some type of legal manner so that they have property rights, visitation rights, whatever. >> host: you realize there is no different. to many people there is a distinction with no difference.

>> guest: i think it is a religious institution and it is between a man and a woman and has been for thousands of years and my problem is if we start changing it for one group, why would you not change it for the next group? where would you draw the line? would you say we have to change it this one time that we are never changing it again? how is that going to go over? >> host: marijuana. >> guest: it has a very deleterious effect on the brain and the brain develops up until the late 20s. therefore, unless you don't believe the medical evidence, why would we even be having the discussion? ..

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