she actually did help to cultivate and shape her husband, the president. i can't wait to read her book. >> tell us what's on your summer reading list. posted to our facebook page or send us an e-mail booktv@c-span.org. ..

>> >> a everybody calls me the data made. >> host: the neurosurgeon now?

[laughter] >> every they used to tease me and call me names but my mother in a success i have had we had to read two books

a week and submit a book report but she could not read that we did not know. >> host: when did you find out? >> leader in high school she caught her ged the savior i graduated. but by making us reid which i hated, as something happened. i used to wiedmaier the smart kids i always thought how come they know the answers there the same age. but as they started reading the now i had the answer and it got me excited. i was reading a book that went from being the dummy to the top of the class and a year-and-a-half. >> host: club was the book? we back my dad made me in eighth grade that is what got me started.

>> guest: i did i realize. >> now i start to make the connection that is interested in science? >> host: the science teacher said what is this? of course, i did not raise my hand but nobody raised their hand so i did everybody could not believe this will be hilarious and they knew i could possibly know the ins is so would be something very dumb and i said it is obsidian and they did know they should laugh

or impressed in the teacher said that is right and i explained how it was formed than they were shocked if i was more shocked than end -- and anybody because at that moment i was not stupid and the teacher invited me to come to the lab in fifth grade and started a rock collection and those taking care of the little animals i started to look into the microscope to discover the whole world of protozoa. >> host: you never forget their names. >> mr. jake. >> guest: never would forget it. no question. more than 50 years ago. but i went back to that school several years ago with "good morning america" they wanted to trace my roots and he was still there. balding and potbelly but i

wanted him to show them the animals because he had all these things he said we had to get rid of them. >> host: the relationship with your father? >> guest: not a strong relationship. i would see him and periodically the last day i saw him was when i got married 39 years ago. >> host: the second family he has to have a relationship? >> guest: no. >> host: not all? to forgive him? >> guest: absolutely. i look at the big picture of my mother tried to make up for all of that. my father was involved with drugs and alcohol and women. nothing wrong with women but you cannot have more than one. [laughter] that would not have been the best influence so even

though i was devastated aha as a kid maybe that would not have been the best thing. >> host: what would you be doing otherwise? the same thing almost anyplace. to bring back fiscal common sense. some people blame the unions but actually i don't. there would gladly strangle the goose that laid the golden egg. >> but they want a better deal. now they have of 15 year plan they kept conceding to the union because they knew they had their golden parachute would be long gone it would be somebody else's

problem. >> host: you blame the executives. >> guest: the same thing around the country. >> host: you have the spark and did you assume you are a conservative? i get the impression you were not always a conservative. >> guest: no. like most young people growing up in a place like the troy to win it off to college i was radical. i went to yale. >> host: what is a radical at yale. [laughter] there are degrees. this year if there is a black period pirelli --

black panther rally but that is the way it was at that time during our history. radicalism was very excepted that that plan but i consider myself more logical thing conservative or liberal. the most problems are solvable to just kill the label live above the situation when it is not on the ballot. >> and with the mayor's race that is the case. they know how that's baggage. you go to yale and when did you decide i would be a doctor?

>> i decided that eight years old of listen to missions stories in church's they seemed like the most noble people on the face of the ears. sacrifice to bring it mental physical spiritual healing to people i said that is what i would do but having growing up in dire poverty i decided to be rich soil decided to bays psychiatrist >> guest: on television day with live-in mansions with a plush office with that a psychiatrist. [laughter] most tv programs they we're doing it to. [laughter] i started to read psychology people would bring me their problems. [laughter] and i majored in psychology in college. and have seminary professors

it was pretty exciting. when i got to medical school i think about my life and i realized i had a tremendous amount of by hand coordination and. that is key. dealing with the nebulous mass. if you don't have good three-dimensional skills. from the jobs i have done them performed extremely well like working in the steel factory per car was a crane operator. right after finishing college. says you have a narrow beams

of steel through areas to put on a of a truck and they let me do that with one day of practice. [laughter] i said they see something in me. >> as a summer job. as i thought about it they said a tremendous neurosurgeon people thought that was strange because there had been eight black neurosurgeons in the history of the world but to me i did not think about that. this is where by talent is. >> basically the rotations where people can identify like the plastic surgeon rotation because you have to know they are precise and

artistic at the same time. >> and a lot of my career's developed around craniofacial surgery with plastic surgery that is why i have an appointment and plastic surgery. >> host: you're not practicing right now. do you miss it? >> guest: imus the way it used to be. a lot of sickness or changing. -- a lot of it is changing. you had a great deal of autonomy and could figure i will solve this problem in the early days there was a kid from bolivia and had a problem and did not have resources and i adjust say override it and nobody said

pooh because hospitals had a big enough for chest it was okay. then the insurance companies got to the point to dictate how much they would pay end hospitals no longer had a margin. you want to do what? for free? are you kidding me? it is so much bureaucracy. one of my goals and life is to make madison fun again. i want to get up and be excited to go to work. i think doctors should be well compensated by riches different dino lot of rich people. >> who should be paid more in our society? doctors or teachers? it. >> guest: it is irrelevant [laughter] people should be paid for

what they do. doctors spent a very long time. they go to college, medical school, internship, residency >> host: arguably 12 years post graduate work. >> guest: it takes a long time. and a lot of sacrifice involved and when you do start working it is extraordinary hours, then you have that toward to issue with neurosurgeons because everybody thinks it should be that way. and then to have health reform such as not include tort reform.

>> host: let me ask christianity is throughout the book. science and faith sometimes you have a highly scientific mind in a dead deeply religious person that that does not compute to. >> first of all, i would say i am not a deeply religious but i have a very strong relationship with god. there is a difference. religion tends to be more formed. and in the name of religion of lot of silly stuff has been carried on. >> host: the middle east right now? >> however people who have a deep relationship with god have a tendency to do things

in a different way. but i actually believe science and faith could be quite compare rabil. and i have had an interesting discussions with nobel laureates who said how can a person with your intelligence of your faith and i say how can you can explain to me how it works? >> so i will give you there is something. and now you tell me it explodes and rehab if a perfect system way could predict? fear is rotating on its

access crack incentives happen to. access crack incentives happen to. a few have a certified had a hurricane over a junkyard eventually after one of them there is a perfectly formed a 747 ready to fly? that is what you're saying. no problem with that. i will not denigrate because of that. >> host: somebody asked me if you believe in evolution? >> i believe god created the heaven and earth. i find that much easier to believe because you have to recognize you take someone like charles darwin who as you probably know started out in the seminary. but he got to the point he

goes to the galapagos islands to see those with the head the beaks that is evidence of evolution. but it depends on how you look at it. two years before philly ones that survived more the ones i could extract future share. so what i believe this is happening a creator who gives the ability to adapt to the environment. >> host: you believe the natural selection. >> guest: absolutely. and i believed in adaption. creatures with the ability to adapt to. fry was the creator i would.

>> host: 6,000? >> i know the answer god created heaven and earth. >> a one day could have been a billion years. >> we don't know. >> does that offend christians view say 6,000 years? >> i would just say nothing tells us how old the earth is in the bible it could be billions of years. but also i believe the reason god is god because he can do stuff we can do if he wanted to create some thin that already had a tea could do that. absolutely. that is why he is god. >> host: so your scientific education you feel it does not conflict? >> guest: i have never had an instance where my belief in god has conflicted

conflicted, ability to be a good doctor in. >> host: absence of malice of surgeon with a guide complex supposedly a stereotype of a surgeon. is that unfair in view of most surgeons? >> there is no question that have some fairly large egos. you don't catch people. [laughter] it does so lax that kind of people but i note incredibly carrying surgeons. >> host: i get why they may have a god complex because they're the only one that can solve a problem. that is where this comes from. >> guest: it is unfortunate.

>> host: how did you prevent that? he it was easy you are the easy to of the the to. how did you keep your head? >> i personally remembered and still remember where i came from and i also recognize a lot of things that depend on a lot of situations. lot of important people involved in virtually everything i have done. i make that clear and i tell everybody else there always other people involved we need those people but you would not have realized my potential so think about the

first set of conjoined twins. but i had to consult with a cardio thoracic surgeon who was extremely good and understood the concept to sit down to figure out how we work out together and work with a plastic surgeon how are we ever going to get this coverage? a lot of people besides myself are involved with those kinds of things. >> host: to get to the hearts of the book what is your scientific background to tell you? >> guest: it tells me that if you look at the earth at any given point in time the temperature is going up or down over a specific period of time. you may be too young but in the '70s time or "newsweek"

chad as a glacier the new ice ages coming. now it is global warming. here is what i say you recall their or warmer we have a responsibility to take care of one another. that is the bottom line. we need to argue intelligently. >> host: you looked at new york city. you have to make public policy decisions and is also important to not get overly involved in paranoia about it. as far as i am concerned we should work in conjunction

with research facilities and industry how can re best utilize our natural resources and at the same time respecting our environment? rather then say we're not developing this or this is is that is not a wise use of the intellect. >> host: remember the great concern about the hole in the ozone layer? there is a lot of focus and basically the aerosol industry changed in the hole closed so this is a case the problem was identified as a solution and industry fought then we moved on an industry adapted. >> i am not saying we should not do that. >> absolutely. but we need to take a balanced approach.

as you saw from reading the book i say that about everything there river said the national prayer breakfast and legal needs to weighing so left-wing and right-wing everything in a lopsided way my way or the highway you will crash. >> you are highly intellectual going to the best school in you are concerned about the the test. >> guest: the reason i am concerned is there is a the class of people in the university's who believes there the beacon of light for everything. anybody who does not agree with them at only do they not want to hear them they'd won into anybody if they have a business they want touche headed down.

where does that come from the less you believe you are the cat's meow. >> host: a think it was this? when did you first follow politics and make that transition from a scientist and highly acclaimed surgeon? lot was the trigger? >> data know if there was a dramatic moment with through the books i have written the last 20 or 30 years you will see i have been talking about these issues for decades. back through 1999 a whole program is laid out there. i am not johnny come lately but what changed me and the

perception was the national prayer breakfast in 2013 because i just spoke my mind a and why i was concerned. >> you have an interesting challenge is in chapter six they say as the concern that i have how people consume too much of the only one side if their conservative as they follow conservatives on twitter. one channel here or there but pretend you are a different member of a political party is so irrational defense of the president's health care plan >> guest: that is easy to do. everybody should have health insurance.

we need to find a way. and we have a lot of bright people and we know better than the people themselves. >> so what part of the president's plan? >> certainly lifetime limits >> host: you did some very expensive surgery's so you understand. all love -- a young family pediatric neurosurgery is bankrupt apple. >> excluding people those are horrible people -- those are horrible things.

i talked to a high administration official before this was passed and i said there is good stuff in here. i adrienne virtually everybody. so why not make those the foundation of health care reform? and then build it together because health care is something we all need why can't we work on this together? . .

that you would have made the first rule, which are above reforms in the insurance industry. it was the next step of figuring out how to expand and then at least get universal access is where the collision happened. >> guest: and we can get universal access because we spend twice as much per capita. how do we design it in a reasonable way?

they have control of what they are going to spend their money on. >> host: you have an idea that you would say from birth to death in the health care savings. how is it funded? >> guest: a variety of different ways. they can send it to the employer. people who are of the same money that we spend. >> host: that would go into this healthcare. >> guest: and it doesn't -- you don't lose it if you don't use it and there are no limits on it. so, all kinds of -- you're having a birthday party, there is a number of ways. throughout the lifetime i also give people the ability to -- >> host: it's not the european countries that basically begin to hand you money. some of it is for child care. what you put some government money in at the beginning? >> guest: people that need

government money. >> host: you would start out $5,000. >> guest: if we take all of the people who are needy in this country and put money into it which they are going to fall short of what they are spendingg now with inefficient programs, so here is the key people begin to be responsible. you need to have something done you're going to think if i'm going here, the food stamps program for a start. a lot of people said you can't do that because people would be irresponsible. but they will not be able to use those appropriately. they will go out and -- >> host: that's why they had to put limits on it. ask a people learn themselves. they would learn how to stretch it out and make it work and do the same thing.

that's what the medical system and the free-market economic forum would control the pricing quality. >> host: the hospitals are a big problem as anybody because the hospital will charge a ridiculous amount. my father died of lung disease and my mother would go through the bill line by line and find double things. because they know that somebody is paying for it. now it's because the cost they know maybe only $2,000 but if they put that cost down the insurance company will pay $300 therefore if we put 20,000 then maybe they will pay us 3,000. it's all games. how do you bring reform. this is the case where i think

it sounds -- the hospitals were the biggest -- that's the tough one. they ended up working with insurance companies and not the hospitals. >> guest: but remember if you are in charge through your hsa, you're not going to go to the hospital. you're going to go to the other one which will make this one act like this one. that's the way the free market works. >> host: the only way to reform the health care system is to basically almost get out of the insurance business? >> guest: you can't have all of these artificial influences. >> host: almost advocating for no insurance. it would replace the? >> guest: no. for all of their routine health care for 80% of everything that you're going to deal with can be paid through the hsa but you have to remember people do have major and catastrophic issues that come up and that's what your insurance is for and what it should always have been four.

>> host: they have a cancer policy that those don't exist anymore. they don't sell them but essentially that's what you get for the big diseases and take that other stuff off the insurance industry completely. >> guest: remember you spring a wrinkle and need an x-xray that is coming out of your hsa. birth control pills can hsa come in no hobby lobby. so what happens? you're not infringing upon their major medica article that happeo cost? >> host: it should come down. >> guest: it comes down dramatically. >> host: in the world we have entered lobbies into the hospitals and all these people that have gotten rich, health care is among the fastest-growing in the economy. it's considered a money maker and i say semi-because without medicare into some of these things -- how do you and act

your plan in the world we live? >> guest: keep in mind talking about insurance come it all works basically the same way. so like home owners insurance if you have a high deductible guess what happens to the price it plummets. if you want everything taken care of guess what happens? same thing. >> host: chapter seven you use the phrase ends leaving our children. some of your language that you have used has certainly -- you talk about this the politically correct police that words do matter and it did offend folks. so, why not curtail from the language? >> guest: what offends people? >> host: the political positions and there are all sorts of ways people get offended. >> guest: when i talk about

political correctness, i'm talking about not being able to express how you actually feel. >> host: so ends leaving our children, some would say slavery is awful and it was this to compare the national debt is slavery doing a disservice. >> guest: it is the whole hypersensitivity thing. a lot of things don't bother people but then somebody comes along and did you hear what he said the? you should be offended by that. this is the same stuff that used to go on on the third-grade playground. did you hear what he said about your mom? we don't have to deal with that. we have real major problems we have to deal with. the reason i talk about ends leaving our young people is because this level of debt -- i don't think most people can even

comprehend. 17 trillion going on for 18 trillion if you try to pay back $18 trillion at $10 million a day we give you 5,000 years. it's an absurd amount of money. and the only reason they can sustain that is because the u.s. dollar is the reserve currency in the world. what if we were not? and there is a designation that generally goes with the number one economy in the world that we have been since the 1870s. we are going to lose it soon because china -- >> host: china is a mess though, too. >> guest: but they are growing at six to 7%. how much are we growing? >> host: two to three, right. >> guest: they aren't going to pass us up however i don't think they are going to become the same kind -- look at the bang in the system. >> host: there's a lot of problems they are going to face. >> guest: however, here's the issue. they are already talking about it. russia is talking and some other nations about creating the

basket or in the instance of the u.s. dollar being the basis it would be a hodgepodge of things. what would you do to s.? is what rob us or deplete us from the ability to print money. what happens when you can't print money and you have the kind of debt that we have? stop and think about that for a moment. >> host: with the ask about risk. you took my political correctness in here. and i look a got the last 30 yed i think when i grow up we have more honeshadmore honest discuse 70s out race and we do today. we are actually afraid to have -- if we say something happens, somebody attacks the president and we say we are going to have a real conversation about race and we don't. there is fear there. so, let me start first with this. do you delete some people are against the president simply because of the card of his skin? >> guest: if you see some people, i'm sure there are some people against --

>> host: but do you think -- >> guest: i don't think it's a large number of people. i do think people are very much influenced by their perceptions. >> host: okay. >> guest: so for instance, if somebody told you parsing is this evil, terrible guy. and then you had me betty you would interpret everything and if somebody on the other hand told you he is this nic was thiy that loves everybody than okay i can see that, too. somebody is always looking for racism. no matter what you say to them. >> host: have you experienced at? >> guest: i'm sure there probably has been some somewhere along the lines. but it really has not been a big factor for me. you know, my mother told me something very important. she said as h if you walked intn auditorium full of racist people, she says you don't have

a problem, they have a problem because they are going to wonder if you are going to sit next to them and you can sit wherever you want. that's the way that i've kind of read my life. but if somebody has a problem, enjoy. i've got more important things to do. >> host: do you think race has benefited you? >> guest: i don't think it's hurt me. i don't think it's benefited me. i think it's a wash. and particularly in the profession that i've spent my whole life in as a neurosurgeon. i fully recognized early on in my career i would come into the room and eyebrows would kind of go up. he's going to operate? wow. so you did feel a little bit of that. by the time i got through talking to them saying here's

the problem, here's how we are going to handle it, you would see that completely melt away. >> host: in some ways it is oriented that that is -- you entered a perfect place to sort of if you want to -- the numbers, the science numbers don't lie. i mean, that is going to trump everything. >> guest: and that is the wonderful thing about medicine. there was a procedure that i started advocating which was very, very controversial. people were complaining to the departmental chair and the association, they went to the ama but by that time i was able to rebuild the numbers. they demonstrated that not a single person had died and there was very little in the way of complications. that ended the controversy. that doesn't work in politics. >> host: people have their own set of facts and it is a set of half-truths on both sides and

the question is everybody is grounded a little bit and the truth and have to defend their position. >> host: i want to go to an economic issue. you have t advocate for the flax 10% basically everybody has to contribute to something. >> guest: i didn't say 10%. >> host: could be 10%. that was your example. >> guest: it needs to be proportional. i use 10% because it's easy -- [laughter] >> host: fair enough. >> guest: but it needs to be whatever it needs to to support government. but you have to recognize is by having this very skewed system with all of these deductibles and things, you know, there are a lot of people who make enormous sums of money, who pay very little in taxes. 10% would be a lot to them. >> host: i'm sure, because there's so many ways for them to high taxes. >> guest: right and i think that's crazy. we don't have to do that. and on the other hand, i believe

it's insulting for people who make small amounts of money to see you poor little thing you don't have to do anything, i'm going to take care of you. i believe if they really stopped and thought about it coming even though they wouldn't be contributing a lot, they are still carrying their weight. >> host: what we propose a counterargument on this group of folks that don't pay any federal income tax. if they go to a casino, they buy a lottery ticket in some ways all of this gaming that was accused ray on the poor -- >> guest: it does terry. >> host: -- they are funding more money on the schools to say. they are putting tax dollars into the pockets. they are putting tax money -- so there are ways that this group while they are not writing a check to the federal government they are contributing more money to the situation than the rich.

>> guest: that's what we are doing is gaming the system with this complex tax system. if we have something that is simple and easy to figure out, first of all, we are going to have a predictable amount of money that we are going to bring in. we will know what we need in order to run the government. the other thing you might have noticed, i'm not a big proponent of government. why do i say that? in the 2010 we have the statistics of that. 5.1 trillion was the federal budget? 3.3.5 trillion. everything the middle class and above make. does that make sense? so, obviously we need to reduce it. and i've proposed a very simple and fair way to reduce it. thousands of government

employees retire here every year. you can shift people around but don't replace them. they are down to a manageable size. and that doesn't fire anybody. and if people are down to a manageable size than they can concentrate on what they are supposed to be doing. >> host: and as you and i know, something happens. stay at the veterans affairs in the va hospital where something is and getting done and everybody is up in arms if we find out there just were not enough people to do this or that. all of these things in the grand scheme of things make sense and we know the way the government and politics work. how do you prevent the politics of the way the town works which is my gosh look at the problem in the federal government. we are going to have to fix it and everybody has to throw money at it. >> guest: a lot of people don't understand the fundamental problem at the va hospital.

wonderful people. huge amount of bureaucracy. posttraumatic stress disorders. conservatives want to use common ground and there's a difference between compromise. 50% of what you want and common ground which is the tiny 10% that you both agree on. what's better in this case? you are advocating for compromise. you want more propositions here. >> guest: when i talk about

compromise and talking about compromise and methods. not necessarily the compromise and values and principles. when i look at democrats and republicans come except for the fringes do they pretty much want the same things? and they allow themselves to be revved up into this group of hyper partisans which they will be. >> host: i can show you the numbers. more people are identified as liberal and conservative and more people describe liberals and conservatives with awful names and will do the same thing. they think the other side thinks they don't love america.

leadership starts with leadership. they can take a variety of individuals and create a vision and have everybody working together to accomplish that. a bad leader is someone who says to the group that group is against you. they are the bad ones and we would get everything done if it were not for them. during the current administration during the previous administration, there wasn't enough multitasking. thiwas focused on the war and trying to make sure that america didn't get attacked but you have to be able to multitask. so, we have had a pretty long

drought since we've had the kind of leadership that sets america. let's remember who we are. have we made mistakes? of course we have. look at that stuff that was going on. the bay of pigs covert cuban missile crisis, the civil rights movement of the economy was horrible. unemployment and the russians have passed. they used the bully pulpit. within ten years we are going to put a man on the moon. galvanize business can academics come everybody behind the project to start working together. we were able to publish this.

they didn't blink. you know, despite his own party he said just the opposite you need to lower taxes and it had a tremendous effect. incredibly brave guy. ronald reagan. look at the kind of leadership that he provided that actually resulted in the dissolution of the soviet union and the way of the cold war without firing a shot. bravery, statesmanship, working across the aisle he was able to work with the democrats. and kennedy was able to work with republicans. >> host: do you see any leadership right now in the pretty? >> guest: i think there's

potential. one of the reasons i tend to keep speaking out is i want people on both sides to understand this. >> host: do you think hillary clinton has potential? >> guest: of course. >> host: what did you think of the clinton presidency, bill clinton? >> guest: i was very pleased with the fact that he was able to work with republicans to get the budget under control. the whole history of that -- was good there is an argument you can't do big-budget deals with one party. it may be impossible. >> guest: so that was good. and, you know, i -- as you probably noticed i don't spend a lot of time talking negatively about people. >> host: knows you don't. >> guest: what i would rather do is spend time talking about how do we solve the problems because we have the capability. we are smart people and innovative people that we have to create the environment that

honors hard work and innovation. >> host: you bring up the results in this book that people after your speech at "the wall street journal" and others said what about person to be coke carson for president so why would you consider it if you did? >> guest: first of all, it's certainly not my plan for retirement. it's a long and arduous career. however, there are so many people. i go to a book signing and people are streaming out the door there are so many people and they are all saying you've got to do this. in the beginning i didn't take it seriously but it just keeps happening and i have to ask myself at some point do you have

to put aside what you are planning and listen? >> host: you say that it's face and a little bit of god's plan. >> guest: i believe america despite president obama said is a judeo-christian nation. and i believe because i've done a lot of reading about the ending of the nation all you have to do is go back and read the letters. the people who say that our founders were deists had no idea what they were talking about. the evidence is quite clear that they had strong faith. so i believe that it was those judeo-christian principles that lead us to the pinnacle of the world and to a much higher pinnacle that anybody else ever experienced. >> host: you don't have a vote of fabulous things to say about the republican party.

i wonder and have been thinking about your potential candidacy if you ran would you be more comfortable running under the party word seems to me you'd be more comfortable not running under the political party. >> guest: i would run as a republican. i wouldn't run as an independent because all that does. and i don't think i would be welcome in the democratic party. you would pick one of the two parties. but you see why. there is a distrust in sight of both parties right now and part of it is this populace of the right thinks i'm not getting a fair deal and the left thinks i'm not getting a fair deal is wall street's fault you can't make an argument they are both right in some ways there is this and that's why i've wondered if some of this boils over and people go outside of the party

structures. >> guest: after seeing what happened to -- >> host: that's what convinces you you want to do this. you want to reform what you want to do and -- >> guest: i also would like to see the situation where we deemphasize. i just don't think -- i mean i think it's nice to have -- >> host: going back to the founders some of them that was a big argument. >> guest: we are all americans. and i think we ought to be doing things that work for all of us. what offends me to no end is when we take our constitution and the say i'm going to enforce this park but not as part. this gets an exemption but this doesn't. >> host: i can't even tell you how that makes me feel. >> host: frankly we solve the court cases go this way. it's the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law to

read the constitution. is it the spirit whether you decide something is constitutional? >> guest: i think it's the latter and i will tell you why. first up is only six team pages -- it's not 2700. it delineates the response abilities of the executive branch and the legislative branch and the judicial branch. so all other matters are referred to in the state. so, i mean if you knew that it could tell you a great deal about what we should and should not be doing. >> host: a quick lightning round. you seem to be pro- civil union. at that point, what's the difference? >> guest: what i do find very clearly is any two adults regardless of the orientation should have the right to bind themselves in some type of a manner so they have property

rights, visitation rights, whatever. you realize there is no different. >> host: too many people that is a distinction with no difference. >> guest: i think marriage is a sacred institution and its between a man and a woman and it has been for thousands of years. and my problem is if we start changing it from one group, why would you not change it for the next group backs we are going to change at one time and fear never changing it again. how is this going to go over? ..