incentives have been entirely one-sided for universities to scarf up as much federally subsidized loan money as they can and leads to suffering. there are a lot of students suffering. as all these changes i talk about happened i predict what we will see is what we have seen when most comfy quasi-monopolistic or guilt like industry change. it was better to be an airline captain before airline deregulation. it is better to be an i'm sorry to say this as it has personal resonance to me, it's better to be a tenured full professor under the system we have had for the last several decades and is likely to be over the next several decades. but, especially for the last 20 years or so the confidence we have enjoyed in the academy has really been largely built on the backs of students and student loan debt and that's not fair. it's something that can go on forever so it won't. thanks.

[applause] >> questions? [inaudible] >> 's james taranto points out that the u.s. supreme court decision that essentially outlawed the use of iq tests in lieu of college degrees to permit people who are not college graduates to get jobs that matched up with their iqs because in some way they were racially discriminatory i believe. i don't remember the name. >> it had -- disparate impact. >> disparate impact case. it strikes me that when you speak of credentialing of some sort that is in a college

diploma you might encounter in people for example of taking on line courses and i noticed harvard is starting an on line course program very recently so this is moving in the ivies as well. he might nonetheless encounter some similar credentialing problem. what are your thoughts about back? >> i think it's possible but i don't think it's likely. i think as possible but don't think it's likely for two reasons. i think iq tests have a very special place in american social and political history and i think competency testing probably is and nobody will assume that. i'm not saying there's no chance but it seems unlikely to me. the other interesting thing about it is if i were a marxist and prone to a marxist style analysis why would say is if you look at cases like that one the last 50 or 60 years are the

educated professional classes gathering power to themselves at the expense of other people in one of the things that is substituting a college degree which is free to employers because the person who gets a lot of time and money. for an iq test which costs an employer 50 bucks or 100 bucks to administer and cost to take her your nothing but a couple of dollars at a time was a big subsidy for the higher education itself. it is a subsidy that of course is itself racially discriminatory because generally speaking minorities are less able to afford to go to college, less likely to complete college and less likely to succeed. swapping of iq test for college degrees is worthwhile and i think that's clear enough that since it's no longer 1969 we will probably not have that kind of problem.

>> what do you suppose the community college fits in a discussion? >> discussion? >> right now they pick winners and the reason they are big winners is a lot of people do their first two years at community college. a lot of places it's free. it's a lot more flexible and community colleges tend to cater to four-year student. if you go to pick flagship school and take your freshman courses he may very well enter foreign graduate student who speaks very little english or by an adjunct who may or may not be a good teacher. people at community colleges tend to be good teachers may focus on that. i think in the short term it's a big boost. if we reach a situation where it's a pure certification environment where people can learn stuff however they want and not going to classes but

passing with a certificate might have a negative impact on community colleges. but it might not, not really sure. >> what you think -- at college is so prevalent compared to western europe? >> there are two possible answers. binge drinking in germany is what we call drinking. based on my parisian relatives who would seem to be correct but. more seriously i think the culprit is the 21-year-old drinking age and there is research to support this and there's a group of college presidents called the amnesty initiative which has been trying to get that change. the research seems to indicate that when people put drink legally students went to bars when you go to bars to drink until they cut you off because you've had too much. when he can't do that use it in

your dorm room making something with everclear and kool-aid with nobody in sight who is sober to tell you you've had too much and then you tend to pass on the alcohol. i think that's pretty plausible. i said this before nobody has listened to me. yet another political issue that would have been good for republicans is to campaign on the drinking age back to 18. it was a republican idea and it has done nothing good and a lot of harm and in the mind of the public at large especially low information voters the public identified with the preacher and what was in favor of low income drinking age would seem to be a brilliant move. naturally no one has done it. >> i was wondering a hypothetical if you have a daughter that was ready to go to college. >> hypothetically? >> hypothetically speaking how

much money would save anybody would bother saving at all? >> that's actually really good question. there is i think every reason to say regardless because if you save based on expectation of colleges seems like a projection from today and you are wrong about what happens in an college becomes cheaper better alternatives is still good to have money in a bank. your kid decides they don't want to go to college but they want to start a business it's nice to give the kids the money and let them use it to start the business instead of paying for them to binge drink. in terms of how much there are a lot of people i notice in the audience with badges that say they are in capital management and they could probably advise you bet on how to do that. my own portfolio suggests i'm not a good source of investment advice and should not be listened to. the one piece of advice i would give actually as i would probably save money outside of

the 529 account in the richness of 529 account you get advantages upfront taxes but it has to be spent on college. with the amount of change that's going on that might tie you up too much and it's entirely possible that of lots of people want to do something other than college the law will change and you'll be able to use up or something else. that means you are taking a chance on whether congress acts rationally to help people. i'm not that good an that good investment advice that i'm good enough to say don't do that. >> since glenn brought up mary type i should mention how expensive -- if you go to his blog you should go to hers. next. >> i teach at emory and one thing where having more and more is that asian students from asia coming with a full ride. i wonder. i don't know how common it is in

other schools but i wonder if that's going to bail schools out for a while. >> they certainly hope so and indeed in my own sector of the academy which is legal education the bubble is bursting much more rapidly. it has hit us first for a number of reasons. one is there has been a general decay in the legal job market and another is that people still see a graduate degree as more discretionary than an undergraduate degree. there are just a lot of horror stories of people who have gone to law school and have a lot of debt and can't get jobs. you can read about them on above the law and other law blogs. their response has been to create new programs designed to attract foreigners with money to bail them out. my guess is that works to some degree. there must be more than one chinese person born every minute and some of them are likely to come over here for an education. it may in fact be more

beneficial for them. the economic calculus for someone from china getting an american degree they be better than economic calculus for american staying in america. how that will be churned out no better promise you will see a lot of schools trying to attract foreigners with money to make up for the loss and my prediction is if you are stanford that works really well and if you are some school no one has heard of it does not work at all. >> how about somebody in the back. yes. >> i am an academic lifer, spent 40 years in it. the iq test is readily available. just take your s.a.t. score and take off the zero and it's an accurate estimation of your iq and i suspect a lot of employers know that but would not dare say it. my question is the collateral

damage getting of getting rid of all of these parasites universities every academic knows of there. the dean's about reach a multicultural studies and things like that. we are talking about thousands of people, massive unemployment. what do you do? what is the social cost of suddenly on employing hundreds of thousands of people who have these very cushy jobs that are essentially parasitic? >> i think it was eric hoffer to said there's nothing more dangerous for society than a multitude of scribes running the countryside seeking employment. you may be right. i think it will be gradual rather than sudden but i could be wrong about that. i sent the manuscript and jan and i started following the news in following the nicynta kept saying stuff i was predicting the book already happening. it was like slow down, slow down, wait until the book comes out. there are a lot of people in

universities who are likely to be redundant as they say and let go as they cut back. they will have to find something else to do. i guess welcome to the world that everybody else in america lives in. i do have a passage in the conclusion of the book from arthur allen laughed as the greatest legal writer who ever lived. read his memorandum and the "stanford law review" but what he said in this passage i quote which is the second best passage is that you now change can be pretty frightening especially for those of us doing all right as it is and a lot of wives get lashed to pieces as the distribution of curved flails around desperately seeking a new equilibrium. that's absolutely true. it's called creative destruction. there is great stuff but there's also the structure and there's no question just like the changes in the auto answer the computer industry are pretty much any other industry can name particularly journalism have left a lot of people unemployed or worse employed in i used to

be and with less. that is going to happen too that was going to happen as i said like most change probably would be worse for the producers people like me and better for consumers who will have lower costs and more choices in the end. that is how airline deregulation worked, bad for airline captains, good for airline passengers might think that is what we will see as well. >> thank you very much for your comments. one of the areas that interest me a great deal is the whole question of what happens to the humanities? obviously the orientation you see in higher education is toward -- when you talk about trinity colleges i think you're quite right. what happens to our civilization when we don't read plato or aristotle or don't have the foggiest idea who they are and did not read shakespeare and did not read the bible. what happens under those circumstances?

the dumbing down of the academy, what happens when in fact there is an academy that does not emphasize the humanities at all? >> well in some sense that is what we have now which is to say that i don't know what percentage of college students read plato but it's relatively small. one broader point, one direction and a discussion about higher education often takes is people who say you know everybody should just study engineering. quit wasting your time with the humanities and be an engineer. they produce value. there are a few problems with that and i want to make very clear i'm not not somebody has a separate and i'm not somebody as opposed to traditional liberal arts education at all. as a matter of fact people who actually read and think and write are in surprisingly short supply. i have a friend who has a

business and she heard a couple of people. her job was to write catalog and amazon product descriptions. they came out with a distinguished marketing program and they could not write a coherent paragraph. she was like having to rewrite them. there is a lot of demand for people who can actually read and think and write. it's significantly unmet demand right now. it's not that there is no role for liberal arts. i think when people do get on their high horse about engineering but think the perception is engineering has remained a rigorous subject. if you go to school in industrial engineering or mechanical engineering you come out knowing a largely agreed upon body of stuff and it's important stuff for when he do it works. i think there is not not the sense anymore that when you get a liberal arts education that you do something similar. i think that's because largely people are right.

there has been a substantial reduction rigor in the academy and there are people in this room of written books about this very subject. i got to go into great length but if you want liberal arts to survive it nonetheless has to be a valued proposition. people have to believe that it has to be true that if a major in us and read plato when they get out they will have skills that will get the job. i think that would be true but one question is so high that you are investing even if it's not in student loans even if you take it out of the trust fund is still something in the six figures for college education expecting an 18-year-old to do that with no payoff doesn't make any more sense than asking an 18 euro to buy a furry. while a furry improve your life? >> guest: , it would improve mine. [laughter] but it's a big expensive item. if a dozen papers of the top expense item that an 18-year-old ought to have and that's doubly or tripoli so if it's on borrowed money.

>> right here, stanley. >> if your predictions have proven correct are we going to see large amounts of corporations merrill lynch citibank looking to hire smart high school kids and training them and giving up college degrees entirely? >> you know, you might. the reason don't see more of this and the economics of it if you hire someone to train them and they leave you don't recoup your investment. in the old days we had apprenticeships that made sure they didn't leave until they had the investment. involuntary servitude or indentured servitude now but so that's an issue but i don't think it's unbeatable. i think there is a growing interest. one of the places pushing certifications for example is the manufacturing industry which has a consortium of people

pushing stackable certificates to show people have skills. i think you will see more of that. whether rocha to the point where you have substantially displacing college degrees i would like to see that because i think it would be good. mcdonald's has hamburg university. if you go there you learn a lot. >> thanks very much. [applause] chicago in

may. >> we are going to go ahead and

get started. i am sure people will keep rolling in. i am teresa collins and in addition to being on the faculty i am the share of the upper school. thank you for coming to the final night views a event. this spring's programs have been stellar from the schools shakespeare team to the screening of good morning hill and a talk about how children succeed until tonight. parker is a special place because we bring the inside out and the outside in. sam chaltain is here to talk with us about his new book. sam is and he has been since i met him in high school a good

guy who in at least one case helped be get a truth to light much in the same way he does in his writing and education. he helped me find a way to tell the story the history teacher and set the record straight. you probably don't remember. but mr. oleson handed back an exam and on the exam there was a shot answer question where he had to explain how the dresden bombing worked/the fire attacks. and the thing is i don't remember a lot about that class. but i remember sam was in it. i knew i nailed the question about the dresden bombings. i got my paper back and it was marked wrong. it was the first question on the test and i will never forget it.

you know how it looks whether the teacher slashes through an examine and it is incorrect. but i had it righted. i showed it to sam and he said it was right and i should tell mr. olsen. so i did. it was hard. i remember my voice was shaking. he was a nice guy but i was telling him me was wrong. telling me story to mr. olsen started a conversation that revealed my understanding in a deeper way than what i wrote on the test and that is what learning can be like. complicated, clouded by misperception or maybe he was tired of reading papers and blasted through without reading.

sam's work is all about polishing the important facets. he is excellent at heralding what is already right into the schools. he believes in the power of the school to shape the teachers and parents and kids and sam believes in the power of school to help shape our very democracy itself. he tells the story of two schools in washington, d.c. where he lives in his book and raises questions about the power and peril of school choice. our school is an important work for those who care about students because in it sam writes about the inside of schools in ways that reveal essential truths ability teaching, learning and choice. as noted in the forward: what the school shows with passion

and precision is education is about real people living real lifes in real places. if school doesn't engage them it doesn't work no matter what the policy makers say. that is what this book is about and why it is important for anyone who cares about schools, communities and their children. i have written thisbuse i believe before we can answer these questions we must put the human face on the modern landscape of teaching and learning. we must experience modern american schooling as today's teachers, students and families do. and we mist pay close attention to our changing notions of community, democracy and choice. nothing could hit closer mark to what seems to be missing in the conversation about schools... the faces of the students and teachers that spend the days in

the classrooms and hallways of the communities. he seeks the landscape through this beautiful study of life in the schools and he is of course here to read. so please welcome to the podium my friend, classmate, and colleague sam chaltain. [applause] >> hi, everybody. >> hi! >> that is definitely the first time i have been introduced by a former high school classmate. so not surprisingly i think it is safe to say that is the nicest and most interesting introduction that i have ever had. thank you so much, treresa, for setting the stage. and thanks to all of you for coming. i was class of '88.

i am not from here. i am from new hampshire so it isn't fully coming home but it is a home to me so it is especially exciting as the book goes and i am visiting different parts of the country to be in a room where i can be introduced by a former classmate. our school is a story about a year in the life of two schools and of the people's whose lives int int intersect. they have a charter school opening for the first time and a

neighborhood school that first opened in 1924 in the nation's capital it is about a lot more than that. in fact, most of the issues it touches on are really the most pressing issues of the day nationally and with really passionately hot felt local context in places like washington, d.c. and chicago and lots of other places. so it as a book about school choice also. and school reform. and testing. and teacher evaluation. and our changing notions of community. so needless to say that is a lot to say to talk about in one book. and especially a lot to talk about in one hour but we are going to try. here is what i am thinking.

i want to share three short readings from the book as a way to try to give you a feel for the story and to maybe provide some specific context to these other issues and give you a bit of a sense of what i think about those things and then let your questions determine how we spend the rest of the time together. does that sound good? all right. so the first thing i should say as a little context about washington, d.c. i wrote this to appeal to folks all over the country because the issue of school choice is hike like the brave new world of modern school reform and just about every american city there is a level of experimenting with this idea. i started thinking about writing this book three years ago when not a coincidence my wife and

our oldest son was nearing preschool age. and most friends were at a similar point as well. and noticed in washington, d.c. lots of really smart, motivated parents had absolutely no idea how to chose a school for their kid. and i thought that is interesting. and that is kind of a major problem if what you are trying to unleash is a more educated consumer who is patrolling the marketplace and making a decision on the best interest of their kid and therefore driving decisions. if people don't understand why they are choosing a school and what they should be looking for then the house of cards comes tumbling down. but what i also realized is that washington, d.c. is kind of the tip of the sphere in this

national movement toward school choice. there is only two cities in the country that have more kids enrolled in charter schools and they are new orleans and detroit. so i think you can understand why that might be happening. in washington, d.c. 44% of the kids are enrolled in charter schools. even in traditional neighborhood schools only 25% of the kids in dps attend their neighborhood school. what was happening in washington, d.c. at the time i set out to write the book is this great intercity migration of all of these families kind of igno ignorantly in search of hope family and kids. and i thought this is something we need to understand more. the first reading i want to do

is from the first chapter. it is fitting this is teacher appreciation week. so the first reading i want to do is short descriptions of two of the educators i write about. it is really more so about four teachers and the two principals and two a lesser extent parents trying to search. i want to introduce you to two of the people i follow over the course of the year and see what you think about it. the first is one of the teachers at the neighborhood school. and this is the title of the first chapter is the first day and you can imagine what happens in the first chapter. when her alarm clock went off on the morning of the first day at 6:58 and the annoying beeping

sound because nothing else would wake her. she jumped out of her and into her 17 minute routine. she would head out the door and cross what is known as malcolm-x park. four years earlier she was a student at brown. when see saw the november times cover of her holding a broom and clean house she decided the nation's capital is where she would start her career. she believed she had the chance to up the level of rigor in

urban classrooms and help the kids that were most poorly served in the past by refusing to keep doing things the way were done before. she was placed at a school in mount pleasant named after the founder of the u.s. naval academy. it was a bumpy beginning and six weeks in the first year she was switched from first to third grade to replace a teacher who had a nervous breakdown in front of children. she had two stable years to hone or craft and felt like she was starting to warrant praise she often received. as she turned on to the sidewalk of the only place she ever worked she felt certain this year would be her last. she entered the gym to search for her co-teacher and meet the 60 third graders they would soon

escort up the stairs, pass the colorful mural to room 121. children as young as 3 and old as 11 sat on the floor waiting to go to their home room. near the gym door, she approached a young boy she had heard the second grade teachers complain about last yee year. how are you doing? did you have a great summer? he shrugged and had his head down. nearby two girls smiled at each other each holding the leg of her father and performing her own distinct dance. and this is the principal of the charter school.

in the new apartment she had moved in after the separation that was a long-time coming, she closed the door to the batrochr and got herself ready. she looked across the street at the walter reed medical center hospital and selected her first day of work attire. she thought back to the apartment in corpus christi as a child. that is where the wanting gbegu. it started after visiting a friend's house on ocean drive. why don't we have that? how can i get that? her dad saw the change in his oldest daughter's face in the following week and saw the building anger and resentiment. there is a difference between being schooled and smart. education is a bridge or a border: chose. as a child she often fished with

her father. leave it there her dad would her her when she recast too quickly. wait it out, dolly, wait up till it tugs. learn to tell the difference from the tide and the fish pulling on the lure. one time she felt a tug that left no doubt. she tried to pull back with enough force. daddy, i cannot do this. don't ever say that. the rod dipped lower and lower and her father got behind her, added his hand to the pole and screamed reel it in. the child strained as hard as she could until a stingray emerged. the father grabbed it, reached for a pair of plyers and pulled the stinger out. the ray was back out of the boat and struggling into the waters. father and daughter laid

exhausted and breathing hard. she felt like crying and laughing then and now. he was always getting her into situations that were bigger than she could handle and pushing her threw -- through them. he was making sure i had some of it in my. it would not surprise me if some of you are like that doesn't sound like a book about education. it may immediately be self evident but part of what became clear to me over the course of the time that i spent in the schools when i knew i wanted to write a book but i wasn't sure what form it would take is that first of all people are interested in other people. they are not interested in programs. and so a book that explains the

specifics of lucy's readers and writers workshop could be found in the book shelf even though that is something that is talk about. but also what became really clear to me in watching the cultures of things unfold and this is what folks in the room in education and maybe not in education but worked in successful organizations know is that always the main currency that defines a culture is language and relationships. and always the most effective schools or environments are the places where people know one another which means they don't just know what their tendency is like in the classroom. they know that her father meant everything to her and to understand her is to understand the relationship she had with her father and what he taught

her about life that directly impacts the kind of principal she is. i think the reason where bring this up and we will go on to reading number two is because when i look at the field of k-12 school reform it is so contention and two-dimensional. it is the landscape of the rightious and the dam. and there are folks out there and people who are doing work that is unrecognized. for the rest of us it is more complicated than merely determining that for example that because rebecca leibowitz moved to washington, d.c. because he admired mitchell reed that we should love or hate or

or we should celebrate the principal has a here or condemn her has part of the effort to privatize education. it is more complicated from a that. and in almost every city, including and not limited to this one, we need to begin having a different, more pointed conversation about the ways in which school choice begins to unlease unresolved issues among race and class and place and democracy and the ways in which school reform, if it is works, is supposed to unleash better approaches to teaching and learning. the first conversation we have to have is what is it that our schools should be more effective at doing and in what ways might we unleash a cycle that creates

a rising tide that lifts all boats? that is not a conversation we are having broadly enough to impact the work we need to do on behalf of kids and on behalf of our community. all right. reading number two. i think speaks very specifically to some of the things that are happening in both washington, d.c. and in chicago. and you will get a preview of what is coming in this by knowing this is a chapter entitled building a house. >> this is a very beginning of that chapter. when romy pitman was growing up on the maryland farm her farmly owned since 1725 she fantasized

about being a doctor and working in a large office with a dark desk with a roster of parents dropping children off, the 8-year-old added an extra twist. a secret trapped door behind the desk to which she and the children escaped to an environment in the woods free from adult supervision and that is what would heal them and their parents would never need to know. years later, she fashioned an adult life that honored her fantasy. she designed her own major calling it socio economic culture. and studied the ways different children and cultures could expect different experiences in school. as a professional, she spent

stretches working with troubled boys and girls and chased against the ridged structure of chasing against a high school and finding her own. her efforts to build something lasting fell short. what she learned was that the challen challenge of a great education is almost all motivation and every school she worked in, ever even the ones she built, took too much meaning. what she realized was the opposite extreme was just as problematic. if you replace pure structure with pure freedom you get the same result. the art was striking the right balance between planning and

impr impr improvasion. the first house she moved in took three years to complete and burned down the first night. the only thing she built before that was a homemade doll. she had a healthy dose of fearlessness and bought a 14 inch chain saw and ignored everything she didn't know and dove in. he stood before the biggest accomplishment and a testament of the learning by doing. she cut down trees and peeled them by hand. she welcomed friends who added touches. on the night of the moving in celebration party she felt like she was showing off a

masterpiece. she overlooked an important component of bracing in the chimney. no one was hurt but the wood from the fire spread from the wood to the cabin and everything they worked for and everything they had acquired over the course of their lives was gone. she decided to start again and used bails of straw for insulation and a lime plaster on the outside and earth plaster on the inside. was fire resistant, sustainable and you network. and this time they moved in 11 months later for good. i like the balance we struck between a lot of forethought, planning and innovation in the moment she explained one winter

afternoon. with you build something from scratch you must have the right balance. the same is true for schools. everything you do as a school desi designer is based on need and you leave enough room for things to happen and recognizing you cannot do everything on the fly. i was particularly struck by her insight. r romy was working with the charter schools. she works for a national network of all kinds of schools called expeditionary learning. it was formed with the harvard school and outward bound which gives you a sense of what they are about. her work is about advising schools to help them embed these

principles. she and i witnessed over the course of the first year, which ended well i should say, was the insanity of the starting a school from scratch. it is insane. it is exciting and leads to remarkable stuff. it is insane because you have to build everything on there fly. things that you take for granted like report cards or professional development calendars. so the flip side was in the time i spent in the neighborhood school, professional development was like a game of telephone. the principal of the neighborhood school was sent a set of power point slide from the district office and the professional development was her presenting the slides to her

faculty which was like you know it is very hard for something to maintain its meaning when it is being passed down from other people who are not deciding what to use. so what i saw was in a way what each sector most needs is the other's strength. ...

>>

>> the only way you can continue to populate is if you close other schools there is no other way to do the math in a city like chicago. so i wonder to what extent is there a proactive conversation that yes coming in is important to build new things and by renovating we can just mean renovating the space but figuring out how people will go there and not be sold to falling in how we can both benefit from the strength. this is not happening in d.c. there but it is interesting to see how much it has changed to see how much more ( relatively speaking will be in a york city tomorrow the climate

around choice in new york is closer to chicago and washington d.c. is to chicago. there is a lot of work that needs to be done and the insight has a little bit of wisdom i will share another reading then the rest to be determined by your questions. it is a bit later in the book you just need to know this is an excerpt about one of the two parents that i followed there were looking at charter schools and one of them was on it like attended 30 open house is knew exactly what she was

looking for and got it. this woman was not so sure. so what you are about to hear with the enrollment open house after she died in somewhere spirit by the time karen received a postcard in the mail that heard daughter won a preschool see at the charter school she had just about given up hope. every other school drew her status so far after the akashi has not even attended an open house is offer a of a commission she now holds but she started to remember to be impressed by a creative minds international she found of handout with the image of two children's

faces is. with art and for the bridges and hands-on projects the charter school isn't new school for children in washington d.c. to create an international curriculum with an arts based activity to foster creativity and self motivation and social and emotional development as well as academic excellence. , can the school says it offers something of a doesn't exist? then she read more an emphasis on the arts, the founding principle with the phd with a deeper understanding how children learn and in spite of herself as she started to feel the fortune of her winning number. she also had no other option the fact that tempered her enthusiasm the following week. this is the actual reality of school choice is school

chance. the most established charter schools are anything other than a true lottery ticket because most of the younger spots are taken by siblings and for those who want to play the game the was the sound great on paper and may actually become a great the yet don't exist in any real form. you buy low and hope the stock will jump. as she walked in the front door she saw other families coming into submit materials. the flier features the posters of the current tenant as the high-school moves across town. one set of parents from pearson. i don't like it he said moments after injuring at which point his bothered knelt down beside him and said this is not your school

yet. he stared back blankly. what is it? one pear it handed over materializing gave the teacher a bear hug if you need any help getting ready let me know. that gives me goose bumps i think my cry. and then the principal was addressing prospective families how much can you maintain once the school year starts? she has 17 years of schooling left and allow her to be pushed too quickly into the academic focus. >> i know exactly what you mean i started the school at the same frustrations searching for my son several years ago that is why we want to make sure our kids are just as focused to address the social and emotional needs as on the academics.

the other parents were nodding and affirmation. are these future friends? will she be spending time at their home? should i believe with the principle is telling me? we left shortly thereafter and she thumbed through the enrollment packet. i get excited every time i learn more about the school. at the same time did you see how young they were? the rising expectations of the parents and increase understanding have outstripped the capacity of the teachers to deliver the goods. some of that sounded like election speech but what about practice into a water to be part of the experiment? the more i think about it i'm not as concerned it is preschool by the time she gets to first grade they

will work out the kinks. i go back and forth were my priorities are. i am okay with her switching schools but i cannot help but think down the line it is a leap of faith by suppose that is true anywhere she liked -- and unlocks her car glading we will still move out of the city just not right away. >> so the peace at the beginning the front chest piece is the code at the beginning of the book i just learned that. now you know, . [laughter] the front just peace is from plato's republic i never read it like i imagine most of you? in school may be but a show

of hands. who did? >> of course. [laughter] pretty good but while i was doing this research there was a not been in "the washington post" that the author quoted that piqued my interest because they never before thought like you always talk about school? of this made me realize that plato's republic talked about i have to read this. so i did so for those of you that have not read it and play-doh and imagines that socrates his mentor is visiting athens which is the highest model of a democratic society in human history and only lasted 250 years nobody has figured out how to sustain an experiment end democracy beyond the point we're not right now.

saugerties happens to be visiting any he is hanging now with the other dudes and they're talking about what the ideal city should be like. a major question is how were they to be reared and educated in how do we answer that and everything else that we do to consider and in what way does justice and injustice, to a city? in what way justice and injustice come into being in a city. that is right in what way can the ongoing school experiment braying justice into the city whether chicago or washington d.c.?

this is crazy so the way you bring it to win it comes to education is you have trays and children in a common pen where nobody knows who's kid is too because unless you do that parents will disproportionately lobby for their child potentially at the expense of everybody else. i share this observation someone thought it was a policy proposal. but it captures the attention when it comes to democracy between the meat and though we. we will not be raising our kids and a common pence a how was a possible to honor the desire of parents to

forcefully advocate for their kid? with the charter school movement one of the central rallying cries was my child, my choice. it sounds pretty good. right? but also the notion of the we and founded to be institutions primarily responsible for insuring we participate in some sort of share and i would say a lot of use the elementary schools may be the only spot that bring diverse groups together. there is not a lot of public squares any more. so to me and we will decide together we have to figure out some sort of a way democracy doesn't require that all of us live in in a

quality but it does require that we share substantially in a common life. some of the question that we will not resolve in the queue is a part of the program is in what ways can ongoing efforts to have more high functioning public education systems honor both the me and the day we? >> three and the reality is really is valued liberty more than equality. to meet whenever away school choice takes it will be a failure that leads to our own demise unless we very intentionally and courageously and

consistently confront core issues that are manifest it around race and class and place and access and the ongoing tension between democracy and capitalism, how close we really want to be to one another. and around the fact schools can do everything and really helping high functioning schools to foster different notions of community. lead is worth exploring and in my mind we're not even having that conversation. it is with the hope we can begin and i look forward to continue that conversation with you in a moment. thank you very much.

[applause] so in the time that we have left what questions or comments do you have? >> this makes me very depressed. is this the middle or the beginning? had you seen a bright spot? >> there are tons of rice spots. every word i said is true. i am really lucky and my job i can visit and work with lots of schools all over the country public private charter you name it. most schools there is a reason that schools are feeling the almost every

parent loves their kids in school. most schools are pretty good. very few schools are truly great whether public or private republic charter and very few are truly horrible. even though both extremes exist. most are pretty good and fall along the continuum. i can give you lots of examples where people are doing powerful things but there is a couple of things that i believe our core design principles. actually let me take a step back further. and all of us need to be more cognizant so we're in

the midst right now people talk about this generally with the huge shift in education and there is the paradigm shift and here is what i think it means and what it means to be in the last 100 years the levy including the zero people in the room i can almost guarantee everybody in this room in the general age has experienced schooling very similarly and i can sum it up this way. everybody went to school where the assumption was with content knowledge but

the job of the student was to adjust to the school. and i can guarantee them evanston was to adjust to our need. our job was to fit in and have fun. that this is typical. what we are now in the midst of this session after. -- of a shift. content is no longer where we are going is the means by which we reached the end goal. they decide in understand his skills in how the san

dispositions they need to distill because those is what will guide the young people through life. not just college or a job but through life to make them good parents, neighbors, partners and democratic citizens. but now shifting to the assumption it is the job of the school to adjust to the needs of each student. those are massive chefs and both are right and it is a lot harder to do that. the reason we should be discouraged we have a system of wind to the old way looking at content knowledge whether schools are successful or unsuccessful based on reading and math

scores. who does this? this is like the general manager of the council only recruit players that hit the stomach. [laughter] perhaps that was a bad analogy. so we have to pay more attention to policy that incentivizes teachers to shift by wheat -- by where we reached the end and will and the expectation is not that they will personalized instruction to every kid better equipped to do that well and are evaluated based on their ability that doesn't just mean cognitive but social and emotional and ethical and physical. and the good news for full

circle and the revolution is under way. walsh share my contact information. e-mail me and i can point you to tons of examples where folks are already doing that or they evaluate themselves whether they reach those habits where kids are learning in and out of the classroom and teachers are empowered to build high transparency cultures and where notions of community your strength and in where they have expanded. that we had a larger level how of focused as some of those have but the opportunity to increase the collective attention with those schools.

and is that a catalyst? [laughter] i will my suggestion when metcalf has all figured out but it is a school district founded to fulfill the progressive philosophy of john do a. but in urban districts like chicago public schools are like the washington d.c. public schools and it is harder because there's so much beyond the control of schools beyond expectation a

district can single-handedly over, over -- all of the issues. leica hard-core top down, i don't think it is possible truly to build an environment to personalized instruction around the strength and needs of each student to not do that and a democratic environment. how you can possibly empower young people if adults still feel empowered. i helped to produce a 10 her video series about a school in boston called mission hill. that is a remarkable school. the idea was real hall attended the very few have attended a great school so we don't know what that looks like and it just lets

you be a fly although wall to see what it is that they do and develop a clear sense of oneness it is that might be exported and tried elsewhere. but to be continued. >> what about the current breakdown? to cement education is that compartmentalization is a hindrance to developing the of life skills across different arenas like academic or social and emotional blow away the curriculum is broken down prohibits that from developing further? >> good question. yes and no and mostly yes. if'' we try to shift away

from it is content knowledge is what will define our work you still need a subject to i teach math or history or high school or a middle school where elementary school. those that have made the shift there may be folks who have a particular expertise and they're always should be but what they teach primarily is creativity and critical thinking and problem solving through math and poetry and social studies so a subtle but significant distinction and the fact we have been lots of places hard-core academic departments that kids go to school and 45 minutes installments how do you develop a more integrated sense of self deficit is it

artificially demarcated into english and math and science? expeditionary learning it is not a radical philosophy but we learn that by doing. one of the founders believe is what matters most is quality student work if you want to transform cultures start helping to produce quality work but in order to do it you cannot be racing through the curriculum. said you're really serious there should only be two grades. a and not yet -- and still learning you're combining in realtime and ultimately you

have to present what it is you have learned to a community who will evaluate your work. that is a model that what some of the schools are using all sure there are schools in chicago go visit and start their but it is harder to do that more schools if we continue tuesday caught in the teacher box. >> thanks for the narrative but the part to that was concerning why does it have to be a choice between autonomy in the system with

the strict control within democratic of structures? and at least if you are pork? and then the last thing a and thinking my one experience with chicago public schools as a build amazing programs that we teach how to do activities in the previous administration is committed to shut down the programs because their competition for the local turnaround's schools hopes of block. >> the first thing i would say is these issues of school choice and how it plays out is so different depending upon where i am in the country.

suggested answering that specifically through chicago which i've not as knowledgeable about, what seems to stand out to me the most is that chicago seems like it has the lowest level of trust and transparency of any other major cities participating in the process. kim from an outsider's perspective, the of budgetary issues seem pretty wheel. -- real. in theory i could see how some schools will have to be closed. but mayor who announces 54 school closings while on a ski trip in utah? that says everything about the extent to which there will be a real civic energy

around school improvement which it to your point has a goal is to build better schools and here is where i get agnostic hint washington d.c. most of these people it is like mom and pop. in michigan for out of five charter schools are run by for-profit entities. that is a very different environment. in the environment there is so much mistrust so i think any time he gets into charter he brings in a chain and this is the beginning of a different sort of an effort. but from the outside it does not smell right. so much of the issue is localized so would his

uniform if we create more space for a public charter schools and they are public schools with the autonomy they should be held to the same transparency standards. to the greatest extent possible any city building space for a district to be better and for charter schools to be innovative need to create the most level playing field possible. and to be transparent as they can be and that is the biggest tragedy. when the chicago teacher strike was happening the title of the article is a part of buses dying in chicago. of wind things like that happens our ongoing ability

to maintain tenuously a hold on a democratic society admits to a larger engine of a capitalist society becomes gravely threatened it is something we should take very seriously with eyes wide open. and to the extent possible we should not throw too many babies out with the bathwater and for those of us that are the most passionate we have to help them understand what are non-negotiable is and the positive next step can begin. >> [inaudible] obviously this has different implications for the jury to man charters with the relationship with the

traditional public. i am curious about your thoughts with respect to private schools that is said huge question i know. so full disclosure i ran the illinois a nonprofit for a couple of years and i fell into that role. looking for a job and i wound up doing that because the recipient of the scholarship got me into the academy where i worked. and through that experience of understanding that private voucher in the idea with public funds i thought it was appealing and i had this feeling of social justice then that led a but

but i had the malevolent right wing people on my board who i could talk with but there are misguided and ulterior motives as far as the real aim and the real goal. i just want to give you that background to pose that question as far as a you think what promises occur compared to private school. >> to thank you for rolling with the microphone c-span is years of this conversation will continue for insomniacs and hotel dwellers. [laughter] i said this to others who were kim private schools and i taught in both when i was in the classroom. to me, every private school

must have a public mission and it is not visiting a senior center and collecting canned goods. if charter schools have a little more freedom than public schools to think about what they do then you can do whatever you want to. to me the public mission of education is the ultimate laboratory for how to do teaching and learning and to do is in the environment to be very explicit the thinking of the ways in which your wisdom might be exported if you have an amazing place that can only exist here that is great for the people that go here and stops here. in fairness it doesn't stop off because all the and people that graduate can radiate out to do amazing

work you see my point that not only in packs the young people but starts to help other folks who don't have the freedom to do their work more effectively that is the way private schools can proactively contribute to that cycle. they cannot be ireland's the past to be the ultimate front-line laboratory to figure out how to do this. we need more innovative thinking now the schools are children and grandchildren are attending will look very different because the world will be really different it is speeding up and to me that is the ideal role to play. we're almost at the time may be one or two more questions.

>> i have a 13 year-old daughter in we have embarked on the madness of bicycles in chicago and it is sheer madness. with a handful of schools that created the best students with hundred percent graduation rates in those handful of schools. then a majority of schools that a 55% graduation rate then is 45% struggling neighborhoods. you mentioned in the context than the need to discuss race and class and the deeper issues that are challenging. how do we begin to tax those things that have been so embedded and are so

ingrained and in a segregated city like chicago? how do we begin to change that? >> do you have an idea? >> i think we need a lot of support from not just schools but i work with the ymca, nonprofits, community organizations to change the paradigm. there's a lot of paid in the motion in anchor in the motion with people struggling in communities that are struggling and violence. we live here i don't have a good answer. >> i thought about that before and this needs to be

tackled them preschool because that is the time where kids how these ideas the few misconceptions about the world. and still to try to encourage empathy through preschool and my hope is that as students go through preschool to become more empathetic individuals their logo into high school with the much more empathetic background to lead them more in tune to the issues you brought up but is people simply willing to recognize their presence and talk about them. anybody else? it seems there were those who wanted to offer their own wisdom.

>> not to debate your points but the other are points out three-year-old are capable of acting performing racist acts basically. not that i have the solution that that is right we have to start the conversation but the majority population has to be the leaders as people are set up and it is time to get it going. >> first with regard to preschool washington nbc is one end with a policy solution as universal preschool to begin. a population of 800,000 before the riots. then 500,000 and it stayed there 40 years.

i move their 2001 and as right around thing started to change so the population is over 600,000. rising tax base which means six years ago we passed universal preschool and because we were only 600,000 things are possible that have become harder in a city like chicago but now 75 percent of eligible three-year-old and 90 percent of eligible for year-old are enrolled in preschool. that is a start. also people say preschool is it too late. your question seeks to something larger but just talking about kids there are organizations doing work zero through three years of age working with parents helping them to think about how to better support the needs of their kids.

a professor at yale was on a path to becoming a medical doctor who grew up in a portable were middle-class community, and neither parents were college graduates but he and his siblings all have 12 degrees. as he was about to become a doctor he looked at the kids he grew up with. not only did they have multiple degrees but they were in jail or in a different direction. there were just as smart. why did we succeed in and day feat -- failed? he concluded they were under developed. the parents were doing the best they could bet because of all the other pressures in a limited their abilities to meet the needs of their kids they didn't have that developmental foundation to be successful where even

though he came from a poor family he did it and succeeded and thrived. to the extent it is possible for cities to kraft a policy that is much more intentional to help adults meet that developmental needs of children, it is important but anybody see in the wire on hbo? great show. maybe the best show ever. truly. lots of people say that but the reason i love that show there is lots of compelling characters but the primary character are the systems that are interacting in the city of baltimore and holding everybody prisoner the drug trade, public schools, and media, municipal government government, and police. we primarily see the way you can never hope to address

education without paying attention to these other things. to the extent that we the people start to demand and hold elected officials more accountable to a systematic policy approach, we will be struggling for a while. that is the biggest thing to say as a final point but in that sense there is no short cuts. we cannot fix public education 11 added for willis and in poverty. we can fix public education with the biggest discrepancy since the gilded age we cannot fix education when the ways in which we tried with his plutocracy and democracy.

and then of these things that they can begin in our own public can private lives to be more conscious said visible to bear witness to what we see, then lf -- at least we can 0n on the best questions to get us closer to the vision from over 200 years ago. thank you for coming. the book is available on amazon.com if not please follow up with me. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> booktv it is on the campus of duke university endure north carolina where we talk with professors and scholars about some of their books and joining us is deborah hicks said teachers

odyssey for for america what do you do here first of all? >> i have a couple of things. i am part of social science research institute that is a unit composed of people doing research into a friend disciplines. i am also a social entrepreneur and directed nonprofit called page partnership for appellation in girls' education and there i work with girls and middle schools so in of the bunch of different hats. >> host: social entrepreneurialism added new term? >> if think it was cleaned as of very widely used term.

but for nonprofits in the non-profit sector. >> host: how are you get involved with appellation and girls in middle school from north carolina? >> that is a long story that i wrote about but growing up as of working class a was the first to my family to go to college that was a big step. and then to go to college to do super well and ended up finally after stumbles and falls to get a graduate degree from harvard that journey that i experienced myself came back to north carolina and founded this nonprofit.

>> host: when you work with the girls what you do? >> i teach. the people who work with me have the out of school opportunity in the most to promote part of the mountains come to the intensive summer program with weekly meetings with volunteers and we offer these girls to don't have the opportunities for summer learning enrichment for the educational program in us summer from over north carolina and madison county they write and read the literature with intensive learning experience through

the non-profit that i direct. >> host: in the road out who are the characters? >> guest: seven very amazing and special girls i got to know what was teaching in cincinnati. i ended up getting a teaching job bin cincinnati ohio and there i discovered a pretty amazing neighborhood of appellation people in the inner city. when you have people were looking for jobs and i was teaching and found out that we went there and said to the people at the public

elementary school would you let me could we teach the kids? i began teaching and got to know these seven girls. the first time i met them there in second grade i follow them into third grade and fourth grade and then i said to them do you want to have a class of your own? they said yes we will try so i began reading with seven of them in total we met every week and during the summer every year of their life and it is an amazing experience for them having a room of their own to study and read the literature mostly i listen to the

girl's dream about their lives a place where they could dream and tells stories. >> host: how are the girls similar with out a lot of life? >> there the poorest of america end children. i left cincinnati in 2009. and then to learn cincinnati was the third world -- worst city for child poverty. so one of the cities and parhe poorest cities and part of that is the appellation in poverty so many of them have moms who

had a son of a drug issues and poor white america is seems to be centered around the abuse of prescription painkillers like epoxy content. so many of my young students had moms who were doing drugs and that is a common factor among the girls. >> host: how did that affect their outlook long life? their dreams? >> guest: for many of the girls they were in essentially or fend to roxie continental and american party. so i was there teacher we became like a family to them and they became like sisters

sometimes i had to be like a teacher but it was very into mint. at 1.2 of the girls one was blair the other one adriaan that they put their arms one another and said we're sisters. i said to them and i often began class with food and i said what makes you sisters? they said we just figured out both of our malls or on the streets doing drugs. so for them we had become a family and the class was their sisterhood. >> host: did it reflect

was wet you grew up with? >> i was a working-class girl no one had been to college and my family and was very working-class. my dad had a job and he lived with the family. >> host: is that rare? >> guest: i think it was, in those days and he did tend to have family is with the data and down, and he was living in the house and had a job because the girls that i taught the this is not part of the everyday

lives and the moms were starting to lose it because of the drug issue. >> so it is similar to what you see with other urban families for them to do step been a and one of my students i read about her grandmother was her central character and that was common. >> host: how did you get out to college? >> education. i have to be very grateful. i was very naive working-class girl. and because of that doing well and then i did not know

how to give in or apply got a letter saying i had a scholarship because a wonderful group of women had given me a scholarship. >> host: how did you get connected with them? >> guest: i can remember. they probably heard about me through high-school someone said she can make it. event then it was easy for me to excel and keep going then went on for graduate degrees.

i went on to college but then i have come back and helped my own own people, the people who are my people, working class people so i feel like yeah i have had to give up somewhat who i was but now i can come back and i can help the people who are like me. but so were you treated with

suspicion back home being the first to go to college? is at the wrong word? >> guest: i think it's a very prospective perspective word. i think that people like me who are kind of bookish poor working-class kids people think she's a little bit different. you know she's not exactly like everybody else around here and she's a little odd maybe. she's more into books then she is at that point in my life getting married or having babies or whatever and yeah you are little bit different and i was seen as different but luckily that didn't stop me. >> host: your work in cincinnati which you write about "the road out" was a sanctioned? >> guest: they were phenomenal. i have to say they were total colleagues, friends. they open their doors to me and to some extent i think they were

a little bit baffled about what i was doing because i was having this class for girls and reading all this literature and i think they were just like oh this is working out in the girls were thriving and i was trying to also at the same time bring back what i learned from the class to the other classrooms and stuff and in cincinnati so i tried to get back to the school systems. they were welcoming and wonderful to me in every way. >> host: besides having class of sub and what else did you bring differently into that classroom? >> guest: i would say my own experience growing up i kind of knew where the girls were coming from so i was a different teacher that sounds and then we also did something that was very unusual these days because now we have a lot of pressure from accountability testin testing th to the test and get everybody ready to pass these big test and an urban poor settings like an

urban cincinnati that stuff for kids to do. it's tough for them to pass those big test. instead of doing that i read literature and that is becoming more and more of an anomaly these days just to read literature and talk about literature, and talk about literature in story and talk about stories of your own life. so that was different and it was a little bit different for me. i'm kind of an old-fashioned literature person. i like novels about characters and character driven novels and stuff like that in these girls, i try to bring young adult fiction and to these girls, things that were about girls like them. >> host: such as? >> guest: such as a wonderful short novel called the blue-eyed daisy or stuff that was working-class for appalachian girls by authors who would speak to their concerns and my students wanted nothing of that.

they turned their noses up at that and said we don't want your kind, meaning we don't want your book. not me as a person but the books i was bringing in. it turned out their favorite book was horror fiction. >> host: like vampire? >> guest: some of that. but one of my students blair is it turned out she was by the age of nine and then also 10 per favorite author was stephan king and they watched it on television and they read steven king. trying to be this iowa state socialistic teacher trying to change the world and change them and all they wanted was steven king. i finally gave in and said we were going to read horror fiction and that was transformative for me and for my students because they began becoming readers and really enjoying it and loving it and stuff and eventually steven king

became, read my memoir and wrote on his blurb about it. >> host: do you regret allowing the girls to read horror fiction? >> guest: not at all. we did not actually read steven king in my class. i did a bunch of research after learned about this passionate players and i found all these really wonderful stories for young kids and i managed to create this whole curriculum around those stories so we kind of compromised but they still insisted that their author was always steven king and that was interesting. >> host: how long were you with these girls in the special class? >> we had a class for four years beginning when they were in third grade and going to the end of sixth grade. i made a decision at that point

to come back to north carolina which is where i grew up and began to found my own nonprofit building on what i learned from these girls. so i had to leave and that was very tough because i left these girls when they were just entering adolescence. i kept up with them when i visited cincinnati. we kept in touch via e-mail and facebook and everything else and i went back and forth but i laughed when they were in sixth grade. >> host: do you regret that? or do you feel responsible? >> guest: i do sometimes feel if i have been able to stay, if i had been able to continue the class a number of them struggled when they entered adolescence. one of them became a young teenage mom at the age of 16. she finished high school and is going onto study hairdressing and stuff so she has done really well but there was a time period

where there was a member of my students struggling and i did feel guilty about that but i knew i had to come back to my native state and do my work here is this a social entrepreneur. it wasn't really the choice that i had. i mean i felt i had a calling to do this. >> host: how old are the seven girls now, 17 or 18? >> guest: no they are in their early 20s. >> host: very quickly adriano snapshot, where she now? >> guest: adriano finished high school at a very competitive private high school where she got into from some help from me but she finished high school and went on to kind of like hairdressing, training program. >> host: she is a young mother. >> guest: she's a young mom. she has a beautiful little girl but every stretch she is doing quite well. there were some very rough patches. >> host: blair? >> guest: blaher is more difficult to talk about.

blair was a student who reminded me the most of myself, very precocious kid. she was a steven king fan and talking about steven king. her grandma who raised her said her vision was that blair would become a lawyer and she certainly have those talents. blair dropped out of school and she dropped out in ninth grade. she just couldn't finish high school and then she ended up trying and trying to get back and get her ged and was able to do that so currently the last i checked in with her she was working the night cleaning job and an office building so something like a big urban office building cleaning at night on the night shift. >> host: maria? >> guest: maria is -- got married, divorced, had another

relationship and had two lovely children, finished high school, is trying to go back to college and become a nurse's assistant, has not quite gotten there yet. left her partner who is now a single mom raising these two beautiful children and she is doing pretty well. >> host: elizabeth? >> guest: elizabeth has struggled as well. elizabeth has a very young child. she had a baby a little over a year ago and has a fiancé, a steady partner so she almost finished high school. she did not pass one section of her science test, her science high school test and because of that was not allowed to finish high school. because of that she is a dropout. >> host: any plans to go back?

>> guest: i would love to go back as soon as possible. i would love to go back at least once a year and i'm hoping to go back in the fall and visit cincinnati. i'm very busy. i run a nonprofit in north carolina mountains and i have faith -- at duke. i try to do as much as i can and stay in touch with the seven girls. >> host: very quickly shannon, jessica and alicia. where are they today and are all seven girls still in the cincinnati area? >> guest: alicia is the one who has left cincinnati and she got married to a servicemen, to a soldier in the army and they moved away from cincinnati. she has a child. she is married and has her first child and shannon and jessica are both again struggling to

finish high school and were not quite able to finish. shannon did not finish high school. she became pregnant in high school and had a baby that died soon after birth. i think it was very premature and after that point began distancing herself from school and begin to kind of fallback and dropped out of high school and jessica dropped out as well but has gone back and done her ged and further college studies and as i think engaged to be married. so both girls are doing well in the context of their communities. i know they wouldn't be seen as in the duke context would not be seen as having gone far with their professional careers but they have done extremely well given what they were up against

which was an neighborhood of just severe poverty and a real serious drug problem. none of these seven girls have touched drugs and i think that is a huge thing in their favor, but they have not gone the way of their moms. they said to themselves, we want something better for our lives and we don't want to go there and they didn't. >> host: deborah hicks where do you think you were successful and where do you think you would do things differently? >> guest: i think we were very successful. we had an intimacy. we had a super successful class. we had seven girls who are attaching themselves to school, loving literature and loving books, loving a school like experience in the teacher. i think the biggest challenge i faced was just about the time that my class finished i had to leave to come back to my home

state and found my nonprofit that i was thinking about founding. the biggest difficulty was not being able to kind of finish the class when the girls were entering adolescence. that's why when i found my new -- i made sure we were serving girls on the middle school years. we are trying to work with students, girls in the years when they are the most vulnerable and trying to define who they are and what they want to be in life. so that is something i learned from a class in cincinnati that i've brought back with me to north carolina. >> host: if people are interested in your nonprofit what is the web site? >> guest: at carolina page all one word.org. page, just like the page of a book in partnership for appalachian girls education. the carolina page.oregon you can find stuff on the web site. you can go to a stories page on

the page web site and watch digital stories. you can hear the girls voices and learn about their lives and would love for people to check out the web site and meet these amazing appalachian girls. >> host: when you go back there, when you involve these local girls are you treated again with suspicion as a harvard do-gooder in a sense? >> guest: in the mountains in madison county where page is located we have an expression from here is enough from yours. i am kind of at this stage both a from here ended not from here. i rent an old farmhouse in the community called spring creek from partners out of madison county. when i'm there in the farmhouse and i'm a from here and when i go to the page program where we offer this program for appalachian girls, we are kind of enough from here. i don't sound like an appalachian girl anymore and i

am just -- have become more of a professor and that kind of thing so part of me is always a from here and it doesn't leave you. you are always the same girl that you were when you were a child. >> host: we have been talking with author, chicago in

may. >> we are going to go ahead and get started. i am sure people will keep rolling in. i am teresa collins and in addition to being on the faculty i am the share of the upper school. thank you for coming to the final night views a event.

this spring's programs have been stellar from the schools shakespeare team to the screening of good morning hill and a talk about how children succeed until tonight. parker is a special place because we bring the inside out and the outside in. sam chaltain is here to talk with us about his new book. sam is and he has been since i met him in high school a good guy who in at least one case helped be get a truth to light much in the same way he does in his writing and education. he helped me find a way to tell the story the history teacher and set the record straight. you probably don't remember. but mr. oleson handed back an exam and on the exam there was a shot answer question where he

had to explain how the dresden bombing worked/the fire attacks. and the thing is i don't remember a lot about that class. but i remember sam was in it. i knew i nailed the question about the dresden bombings. i got my paper back and it was marked wrong. it was the first question on the test and i will never forget it. you know how it looks whether the teacher slashes through an examine and it is incorrect. but i had it righted. i showed it to sam and he said it was right and i should tell mr. olsen. so i did. it was hard. i remember my voice was shaking.

he was a nice guy but i was telling him me was wrong. telling me story to mr. olsen started a conversation that revealed my understanding in a deeper way than what i wrote on the test and that is what learning can be like. complicated, clouded by misperception or maybe he was tired of reading papers and blasted through without reading. sam's work is all about polishing the important facets. he is excellent at heralding what is already right into the schools.

he believes in the power of the school to shape the teachers and parents and kids and sam believes in the power of school to help shape our very democracy itself. he tells the story of two schools in washington, d.c. where he lives in his book and raises questions about the power and peril of school choice. our school is an important work for those who care about students because in it sam writes about the inside of schools in ways that reveal essential truths ability teaching, learning and choice. as noted in the forward: what the school shows with passion and precision is education is about real people living real lifes in real places. if school doesn't engage them it doesn't work no matter what the policy makers say. that is what this book is about and why it is important for anyone who cares about schools, communities and their children.

i have written thisbuse i believe before we can answer these questions we must put the human face on the modern landscape of teaching and learning. we must experience modern american schooling as today's teachers, students and families do. and we mist pay close attention to our changing notions of community, democracy and choice. nothing could hit closer mark to what seems to be missing in the conversation about schools... the faces of the students and teachers that spend the days in the classrooms and hallways of the communities. he seeks the landscape through this beautiful study of life in the schools and he is of course here to read. so please welcome to the podium my friend, classmate, and colleague sam chaltain. [applause]

>> hi, everybody. >> hi! >> that is definitely the first time i have been introduced by a former high school classmate. so not surprisingly i think it is safe to say that is the nicest and most interesting introduction that i have ever had. thank you so much, treresa, for setting the stage. and thanks to all of you for coming. i was class of '88. i am not from here. i am from new hampshire so it isn't fully coming home but it is a home to me so it is especially exciting as the book goes and i am visiting different parts of the country to be in a room where i can be introduced by a former classmate.

our school is a story about a year in the life of two schools and of the people's whose lives int int intersect. they have a charter school opening for the first time and a neighborhood school that first opened in 1924 in the nation's capital it is about a lot more than that. in fact, most of the issues it touches on are really the most pressing issues of the day nationally and with really passionately hot felt local context in places like

washington, d.c. and chicago and lots of other places. so it as a book about school choice also. and school reform. and testing. and teacher evaluation. and our changing notions of community. so needless to say that is a lot to say to talk about in one book. and especially a lot to talk about in one hour but we are going to try. here is what i am thinking. i want to share three short readings from the book as a way to try to give you a feel for the story and to maybe provide some specific context to these other issues and give you a bit of a sense of what i think about those things and then let your questions determine how we spend the rest of the time together.

does that sound good? all right. so the first thing i should say as a little context about washington, d.c. i wrote this to appeal to folks all over the country because the issue of school choice is hike like the brave new world of modern school reform and just about every american city there is a level of experimenting with this idea. i started thinking about writing this book three years ago when not a coincidence my wife and our oldest son was nearing preschool age. and most friends were at a similar point as well. and noticed in washington, d.c. lots of really smart, motivated parents had absolutely no idea how to chose a school for their

kid. and i thought that is interesting. and that is kind of a major problem if what you are trying to unleash is a more educated consumer who is patrolling the marketplace and making a decision on the best interest of their kid and therefore driving decisions. if people don't understand why they are choosing a school and what they should be looking for then the house of cards comes tumbling down. but what i also realized is that washington, d.c. is kind of the tip of the sphere in this national movement toward school choice. there is only two cities in the country that have more kids enrolled in charter schools and they are new orleans and detroit. so i think you can understand why that might be happening. in washington, d.c. 44% of the kids are enrolled in charter schools.

even in traditional neighborhood schools only 25% of the kids in dps attend their neighborhood school. what was happening in washington, d.c. at the time i set out to write the book is this great intercity migration of all of these families kind of igno ignorantly in search of hope family and kids. and i thought this is something we need to understand more. the first reading i want to do is from the first chapter. it is fitting this is teacher appreciation week. so the first reading i want to do is short descriptions of two of the educators i write about. it is really more so about four teachers and the two principals

and two a lesser extent parents trying to search. i want to introduce you to two of the people i follow over the course of the year and see what you think about it. the first is one of the teachers at the neighborhood school. and this is the title of the first chapter is the first day and you can imagine what happens in the first chapter. when her alarm clock went off on the morning of the first day at 6:58 and the annoying beeping sound because nothing else would wake her. she jumped out of her and into her 17 minute routine. she would head out