tense. maybe especially when the situation was tense. right before the convention he didn't speak to a single individual about whether he should run again nor did he ask anyone to do anything to further his cause. that included his wife, harry hopkins and everyone he was i i intimate with. he waited until the last minute to make the decision as he did many decisions. what did i learn about who fdr was? he was famously social. but essentially solitary. he was grown up and raised as an only child on remote estate in up state new york with a new

friends and intimates and developed a level of self-reliance that increased over the course of a life time and career. elenor said he had no real confidants. not me either. a speech writer for fdr was a very asstute observer of rogues roosevelt and wrote the classic bioography of roosevelt and hopkins. that is a bible in fdr history. he got to know roosevelt well. he said he has a thickly forestly interior. he didn't want anyone to

penetrate that force to see what was going on inside. we was probably the most solitary president we have ever had. ... this is the contradiction that is fdr and wife frances perkins was such a complicated man and there's no episode in his presidency or his life which underscore is this duality more than this type does.

four days before the chicago convention opened on july 11th, 1940, franklin roosevelt called felix frankfurter down from the supreme court. they had a two hour session in the oval study adjacent to the president's bedroom on the second floor of the residents not to be confused with the oval office which was roosevelt's favorite room. he talked about this issue for two hours at the end of which roosevelt said i want you to write a memo about what you just told me. i would like to request archibald's mclease and the library of congress. jim billington's predecessor, make it quick. he returned to the next day with two memos which i believe are the best window into fdr's mind

on this question at this time. they are so significant that they are reprinted in full in the appendix. what was going on in roosevelt's head? breaking this limit by the emergency the country is facing. frankfurter and mcleased said you are not only justified but you have a duty to run because of the dire nestle of this emergency and because there is no one else and in fact that is exactly what he did. he decided to run at that moment because of the war. he could not find anyone else who would support his policies and who could be elected. he tried until the last moment to get the secretary of state to run and held with not run. so he felt he had no alternative but to run himself so he offered

himself to the convention in a thinly disguised draft, wasn't kidding anybody about that because there was plenty of support for it. said the stage for a dramatic convention. some of its scripted, some of it very unscripted and it contained a fascinating cast of characters, not least eleanor roosevelt and frances perkins. there was a lot of resentment at the convention because the delegates didn't feel roosevelt had been candid about his intentions and he picked henry wallace to be his vice president who is not only anathema to most of them, as a former republican and some thought a mystic but it had always been the prerogative of the convention to fix vice presidents, fdr set another precedent when he decided he was going to pick his own vice president so there was a revolt going on at the convention and frances perkins called the

president, she pleaded to come to chicago to address it and said i can't do that, they will make me say things i can't say. i am not going to do that and after a while they agreed eleanor should come. wouldn't it be good if the president was very enthusiastic about eleanor and so was frances perkins so they schemes together to persuade eleanor to come and frances perkins, this is at a time when women did not play a role in politics. this is a significant time but she asserted himself and she had such respect for fdr that he listened to her and she said famously during her address to the convention, she said you can't treat this as an ordinary nomination in an ordinary time. the next president will perhaps

bear a larger, heavier responsibility than any other man before. this of course is the speech that doris kerns goodwin who will be here shortly had a wonderful book titled no ordinary time. this is where that comes from and eleanor's speech made the difference. henry wallace was nominated narrowly but the revolt was off and the convention adjourned without more turmoil and another important character of this period was charles lindbergh, famous aviation hero come much admired but also leader of the isolationist movement. roosevelt detested him. he said if i die tomorrow, remember one thing. charles lindbergh is a nazi. charles lindbergh was many things. he was not a nazi but he had been used by the nazis went on

three ships, spent military inspection jaw trips to germany in the 1930s, wendell willkie if there's a secondary hero to the story it is wendell willkie, he is now little remembered unfortunately because he was a very significant statement, and he was a utility's executive but very charismatic and came from nowhere. captured the republican nomination and charmed the dickens out of the republican party but there were some that didn't like it, that presented him. the old style conservatives didn't much care for him because he had so recently been a democrat and this is personified at one point by a chance encounter wendell willkie had with a former senator from indiana, james watson, former senate majority leader who said wendell, you are a nice fellow but i don't much like your

politics and wendell willkie said that is true, i was a democrat until recently, but i am now a republican, i have seen the light and i plan to win this nomination. back in indiana, we don't let her lead the choir on the first night. they all got over it eventually. wendell willkie really distinguished himself during the election, he took a courageous stand in favor of the first peacetime draft in american history, roosevelt did too and they got it enacted but where he really showed in my view after the election, he said we only have one president now, franklin roosevelt, and he has my support and they have a famous dinner together just the two of them the night before roosevelt was

inaugurated for the third time and roosevelt sent a handwritten message to church sylvia wendell willkie who was on his way to london. wendell willkie was so moved by what he saw during the blitz in london that he testified passionately and effectively and fdr never forgot, he said we never could have -- made the united states the great arsenal of democracy during world war ii, made a huge difference and it was a marvel he probably ruined his chances for the 1944 nomination in that act alone because virtually every republican leader in the country and urged him not to do it. winston churchill played a very key role. they had only met once at a dinner in london in 1918 during world war i. churchill never remembered the

encounter. roosevelt never forgot that churchill never remembered the encounter but roosevelt was -- churchill was courting roosevelt very heavily during this period, for defense against hitler. especially needed destroyers, escort festivals which you both for taking out regularly. roosevelt finally found a way to get the destroyers to britain without going to congress. this was no small thing but he had to do in such a way that it appeared to be a trade, use of british bases in the caribbean and churchill was worried that roosevelt was going to portray this as the united states having gotten the better of the bargain, being an astute politician, we won the reputation to reach britain. roosevelt arranged the

transatlantic telephone call and got his attorney general, robert jackson on the phone to explain that this had to be a trade or a bargain. churchill said empire's just don't bargain. attorney general jackson said republics do. roosevelt tried to smooth the waters by saying the problem is i have this attorney-general and he says we have to bargain. and churchill said, unmoved, maybe you ought to destroy these destroyers for a new attorney general. they got it worked out, they got it worked out, and in the general election fdr ran as commander in chief, running against adolf hitler according to republicans. a variation of the modern rose garden strategy, he was doing inspection force but not campaigning as a candidate. he did, however, during the

election take two very courageous decisions, one for the first peacetime draft in american history, the other the destroyer's deal for which he thought he could potentially be in peach. in any case, wendell willkie succumbed to the advice of the republican leadership and made the war the issue and he said if you vote for roosevelt if roosevelt is elected the boys will be on the transports by april. he started calling roosevelt a warmonger, the polls started closing and roosevelt was worried, spoken out, had to go out and campaign, discard this disguise as commander in chief and be a candidate. people's clothes so rapidly that roosevelt thought he was probably going to lose and on election night on november 5th,

1940, he closeted himself in the dining room in the big house where he always received their returns and he saw something in the early returns that he didn't like. he turned to a secret service agent, and he had never done this before. he had broken out in a sweat. mike riley says you mean your family? i said any one. the door closed for 45 minutes. what went on in his mind is a historian's gold but no one will ever know because nobody ever told anybody what was in his mind. that didn't keep me from speculating a little bit in this book but that is the license of a historian. in any case he won the election and this election i maintain was one of the most consequential in american history and his

decision to run for a third term was justified. the first consequence was it put in place a man of proven experience and ability to lead this country through world war ii and we are seeing evidence of how he took command of the anglo-american live immediately after pearl harbor and among other things stopped the alliance from launching an across the channel invasion of france in 1942 which would have been an unmitigated disaster. george marshall was the primary proponent for that. this election began the eclipse of isolationism in america. america have always in an isolationist nation that ever since then we have always been engaged for better or worse and often for the worse in the rest of the world's. the destroyer deal really set a siege for the national security

state we have become today. can it change the way we think about the presidency? before 1940 we seldom if ever thought this was someone, a presidential candidate capable of conducting foreign policy and protecting the american people which is the premier responsibility of any president. as i said i think 1940 was one of the most consequential elections in his story, right up there with 1864 when lincoln ran for reelection during the civil war and altogether it was an extraordinary example of presidential leadership. roosevelt set his sights on saving britain and giving the united states the time it needed to prepare for war which he knew was coming. he concluded he could only accomplished that goal if he challenge the 150 years of american history himself and he did. it was up messy process.

it was not always pretty but i would argue that it got the right results for the country. we will never get fully into fdr's mind, what he was thinking during this time but this book is my own effort to try to penetrate the thickly forested interior robert sherwood talked about. thank you very much. [applause] [applause] >> let's take some questions. >> if i recall correctly, roosevelt ran on a platform of not getting into wars. >> is the mic on? could you speak a little closer to the mic? >> if i understand correctly, in 1940 didn't roosevelt run on a platform of keeping us out of work? >> he said he had no plans to

take the country into the war but he became a little opaque as the election came here so it was his intention -- he intended to keep the country out of the war but he did not want to take a hard and fast pledge that he would never get involved so there was a lot of wordsmithing going on on that campaign trail the last two weeks. >> was a cynical decision, had he taken a position that -- >> i don't think it was cynical. there are reasons to be cynical about fdr. i think he was absolutely sincere in wanting to protect -- he knew this country wasn't ready for war and he could not get the country excited about this at this time for the whole thing would unravel so i don't think he was cynical duplicitous about this.

he was the consummate politician, no question about that and he would work politics into everything he did but his main purpose here was to put off american engagement in the war until we were prepared for it, thank you. >> henry wallace always seemed like a strange choice for vice president, hard to imagine fdr thinking of him as a successor. did you study much about how he settled on wallace? >> yes. he had a field of candidates that he wanted. it was jimmy birds or henry wallace, jimmy burns was too controversial. he was a catholic who had given up his catholicism and was from south carolina and was a segregationist and that was not going to work although he admired burned in many other ways. hall would not only not run for president but he would not run for vice president which really

wept wallace in roosevelt's mind because he was an adamant that the could of the new deal, totally faithful to the new deal. there are other questions about him that later surfaced so we will never know what kind of president he would have been. >> we have seen newsreels of roosevelt, never quite shows that he was quite handicapped. i was blundering about indiana, would they know the president was unable to walk and stuck in a wheelchair? >> really good question. there are only four known photographs in existence of roosevelt in a wheelchair. he did not go out of his way to dramatize that obviously. he would -- when he was standing he was always standing with the assistance of a military aid or one of his sons so he could walk but with assistance. and usually he was in the back

of a convertible waiving. so people knew he had suffered from polio, people knew there was something -- he was so abelian to in his personality that it took the focus off of any disability had. wasn't being duplicitous about that because everybody knew -- a lot of people knew he had the disability. but it wasn't out there in front. >> roosevelt's relationship with john nance garner. to what extent was roosevelt concerned that garnered could become his successor in the event that he didn't run and what was his thinking about is successor prior to the outbreak of war in europe in 1939? >> roosevelt and john nance garner had a good relationship in the first term. he had become vice president because of the deal made in 1932, garner brought the texas delegates and california delegates to get roosevelt the

two thirds needed in the convention. the second term starting with quarterback plans and particularly with the purge effort in 38 destroyed their relationship. they detested each other and garner announce that he was going to run regardless of what roosevelt did. mean never had a serious chance of getting the nomination nor did he believe that himself but it was moseley spiked and he was trying to make a point about no third term. they had a disastrous relationship and i don't think he ever thought that garner would be or should be his successor. >> you mentioned charles lindbergh and the isolationists. there are very strong right-wing organizations, american nazi, talk a little bit about their role in politics at that time. >> actually there were nazi agents in america at that time

as there were british agents at that time, trying to influence u.s. policy particularly in terms of the neutrality act and aide to europe and there were nazi agents that drafted some language for republican members of congress that ended up in the republican platform. and roosevelt and the democrats, there was a lot of foreign interference you might say in an important domestic election and obviously agents abroad elsewhere as well. >> what about home grown right wingers? >> they no doubt where some, there clearly were some. i don't have -- i don't have any insight into that but i am sure they were around. they are usually around.

yes, sir? >> at the convention didn't roosevelt actually orchestrate and want to run but wanted the people to ask him to run or the delegates? >> essentially correct. it was a friendly -- finley describe the draft. what happened was when the speaker of the house gave his keynote address the first time he mentioned franklin roosevelt's name, there was a pause in the audience and nobody quite knew what was going to happen and all these megaphones in the arena came, we want roosevelt. new york wants roosevelt. what happened was the mayor of chicago had put his support

commissioner in the basement of the hall with a lot microphone and he did this and every so often he would pop up and waved at the mayor and say are dry doing well? that is what it was. nothing impromptu about this. i don't think roosevelt was behind but everybody knew what was going on and the new york times reporter who went down to the basement to find out what was going and this became known as the voice from the sewers. last question i am told. >> roosevelt won -- went for a fourth term when the war was practically the? >> wasn't clear the war was won. i think he was in pretty good shape when he ran in 1940. in 1944 he was not in good shape. he should not have run in 1944. it was during the war and he

obviously -- he was -- taking what he thought was the best course, continuity, you wanted to see it through but in fact he was in very fragile health at that time. you can make -- that was the persuading fact that determined congress to pass the amendment limiting presidents to two service -- terms. you have been a wonderful audience, thank you, thank you. ♪ ♪ >> you are watching booktv live coverage of the fourth annual national book festival being held at washington convention center in washington d.c..

that was richard moe, former chief of staff to walter mondale, writing and talking common coming up in ten minutes. peniel joseph has written of biography of stokely carmichael, talking about his book and then former congressman james cliburn will be joining us to talk about civil rights and to take your calls as well. we are pleased to be joined on set outside the history and biography room by former justice of the supreme court sandra day o'connor. this is her fifth book, the history of the supreme court out of order. five books. when did you discover you enjoyed writing? >> nothing changed, lots of things to write about and tell about. >> host: would be doing at the book festival? you are not talking about your

book. >> not really. i know jim billington at the wall street -- my brother has a new book out and so jim told me i had to bring my brother so i said i would and that is why we are here. >> host: you are in conversation with alan d. a. your brother. what is his book about? >> guest: for a long time he had them in north dakota where he could take these and keep them for a while. the federal government had the responsibility for them so he did that for quite a while. it was so simple. >> host: let's talk about out of water and some of the stories year. one of the first stories you

tell is former chief justice john marshall and thomas jefferson were related and did not like each other. >> isn't that amazing? >> host: was the relationship? >> guest: it was amazing that they didn't like each other and it was so difficult to manage but they did. >> host: the marbury vs. madison case was daring president jefferson's tenure. exactly what did that case established? >> guest: i don't know that today we say much of anything. >> host: it established the court -- >> guest: it was pleaded with the other two and given a lot of credibility which it needed. the court was still young and had yet to be accepted in the

country as an equal voice to the other two branches. >> host: one of the things you write is marbury and madison in the justice's private dining room. >> isn't that something? >> host: some of the traditions you also talk about in your book, 3 x 3, why do justices centers that way? >> guest: 3 x 3. >> host: enter in groups of 3. >> guest: we actually don't. the fact of the matter is justices behind the curtains, they are getting ready to enter and an equal division of the justices mean they invest 3-6-9 and there they are and they

march in. >> host: the handshake before you go in, what happens? >> guest: for that is very important, let me shake your hand, to feel the warmth of someone's hand, you had a momentary bond but one that matters. when you have somebody's hand in your is it matters. wonderful way to trying to secure good will among the justices. very tough decisions to make some times. >> guest: you right in here is that you quit shaking hand of one justice and will only grab his thumb. >> guest: that was because he grabbed my hand and i thought i was going to lose my hands. he was so strong, and i know he

did not realize how he was hurting my hands so i had to do something to save my hand from this powerful thing by that justice. >> host: you don't talk about yourself much in this book but you are the first female justice on the floor. what do you remember about september 25th, 1981? >> guest: nothing special. >> host: that was your first day on the court. >> guest: i had the hope that my service on the court would be worthwhile, that i could make a solid, significant contribution and i didn't know that day whether i could or not. you don't know how you are going to do, you don't know how you are going to get around with your colleagues, you don't know

when you start what cases you're going to come before the court, you don't know how you will be challenged but my hope was i could do well enough that no one would be unhappy that they had a woman on the court, they wouldn't think that was a defect, that was important to me. and i could make a valuable lasting contribution. >> host: i will test your memory here all little bit. bill fulham who served as supreme court chief justice from 1888 to 1970. it is not a name that comes readily to mind. >> guest: he is not particularly remembered for significant cases. he did all right but he wasn't there at a time he had to sign on to some incredibly important

case and so he isn't particularly remembered. >> host: we all know roger taney. why do we know him? >> guest: he was in fair. what makes you think about him? you remember out of order. all the things he worked on. >> host: his relationship with president lincoln. is it important that chief justice and president along? >> guest: itself in some ways, the president will fill a vacancy on the court if there is one and i think certainly you would want to be in a good relationship with the man who is going to fill that vacancy because you might be asked for an opinion, what do you think about so and so, i am considering so and so.

is very important. >> host: what about congress? >> guest: congress is so big and diverse it doesn't matter. you hope justices are not going to do anything in particular arafat will cause and happiness among concourse and members of congress but that is not likely. it is a diverse body so that is okay. >> host: something the strikes people about justices is the friendships on the court because there are only nine of you. >> guest: you don't expect any particular relationships or friendships but you want to keep things working at the court. that means it is better if you don't develop some animosity with one particular injustice that makes it harder to get a decision. you don't want that.

every justice wants things to be smooth enough that you can reach agreement on the issues that come before the court. >> host: justice sandra day o'connor, out of order. it is her fifth book. if you go back in history little that she wrote a book about being raised on a lazy be rail and the book notes program, you can watch it on line at booktv.org or c-span.org. thanks for being with us on booktv. live coverage from fluff fourteenth annual national book festival is continuing. in just a minute in the history and biography room professor at tufts university, the author of several books, one of our in-depth guests earlier this year, talking about stokely

carmichael and the civil rights movement. peniel joseph will begin talking shortly and lisa lynn will talk about her book on -- doris kerns goodwin will also be here and after that, peniel joseph on civil rights and doris kerns goodwin, booktv live coverage from the fourteenth annual national festival of books. >> national book festival. my name is kevin marriage of the washington post and we are proud to have been a charter sponsor since the book festival's in section. i want to thank the library of congress, it was wonderful on the mall and it is great inside. so many great authors. we hope your having a wonderful day celebrating the joy of reading but before we begin, i

have to read this disclaimer, the pavilion's presentation in the library of congress's web site and archives, please be mindful of this. please don't sit on the camera rises in the back of the pavilion. we are here to listen to peniel joseph. i have the pleasure of interviewing and the 11 on the occasion of the 2010 book dark days, bright nights, from black power to barack obama. it was one of those wonderful, and hurried c-span book conversations. i never met him before and i was so impressed not only by intellect but by his ease, he melody and introspection.

i left thinking i am going to read all of that dude's books from now on until the end of time. he is the author of the award winning waiting until the midnight hour, a narrative history of black power in america but the book he has come to discuss today and why i am sure you are all here is "stokely: a life" which was described in the new york times review as an insightful, highly engaging affluent biography, of stokely carmichael, the man widely seen as heir apparent in the black leadership hierarchy to martin luther king jr. and malcolm x following their assassination. and the reporting committee, stokely started as a believer in nonviolence, led him to concentrate his thinking on the

notion of black self-defense. carmichael was a complex figure and that complexity was captured wonderfully in this definitive biography, "stokely: a life". you can never be disappointed with a book when you have chapter titles like the chocolate and fred astaire. peniel joseph 11 is restoring, activist, popular radio commentator on subjects like race relations and civil rights, politics, democracy, a nice shoe collection. give a warm welcome to peniel joseph. [applause] >> thank you for that warm

introduction. i start by thanking the library of congress for this invitation to talk about "stokely: a life". it is an honor and privilege to be here. i spent ten years on the life of stokely carmichael, kwame ture, and a lot of questions i received was why did i spend so much time, why was stokely carmichael, kwame ture, so interesting to me and why did he deserve a biography, and to answer that and before going into stokely carmichael's wife, the legacy left and what it means to us in 2014 especially in the context of contemporary american race relations the age of obama, the age of ferguson, where we are now. i have to begin with my mother,

my mother who is watching this right now, germain joseph is 75 years old, retired, haitian immigrant who came to the united states in the mid 1960s and was my first history teacher, my mother was part of the 1199 union. i was on my first pick of line, she taught me values that were really important to shaping who i am as a man, a person, a human being and a writer, scholar and thinker. within that context of growing up in jamaica, queens, new york, listening to speeches by malcolm x, martin luther king jr. and haitian history, reading the black activist, reading about all these different people who struggle for social and political justice that i came to

find kwame ture stokely carmichael. i was really really impressed by stokely carmichael even as an elementary school age child. i didn't know i was going to be his biographer at the time. when i think about stokely carmichael, the first time i encountered stokely was through the miniseries eyes on the prize. that miniseries, extraordinary, henry hampton and all these people who created really the definitive documentary about the heroic period of the civil rights movement ended in six parts, we pretend six parts. the and 24-year-old stokely carmichael is in one of those episodes calling for black power and if you are in new york city growing up in the 1980s in the

context of everything from spike lee to howard beach to different roiling demonstrations against police brutality that documentary was a signal moment in my own political history, my own intellectual development so i encountered kwame ture stokely carmichael by way of the miniseries eyes on the prize and in subsequent years as i went to college, as i became us thinker, reader, writer, activist, he always stayed on my mind. the first book i wrote waiting until the midnight hour was a history of the black power movement in america and internationally and it was in the course of doing research on that book that i really came to deeply deeply investigate and research the life of stokely carmichael kwame ture. by way of introduction. "stokely: a life," this is of

biography, a political activist who i argue in this book stands out as one of the three political activists in the postwar period who transforms democracy, civil rights, community organizing, citizenship and malcolm x, martin luther king jr. and stokely carmichael kwame ture. he was born june 20191941 in trinidad, comes to the united states two weeks before his eleventh birthday in 1952, he moved to the mars park section of the bronx, he is -- his family is one of the only black families in that neighborhood. he is a precocious, very intelligent child, always identifying with underdogs, has a wide a ray of friends, interracial friends, accused a charismatic, becomes one of the only black students to kiss in to the bronx high school of science which is one of the best

public high schools in new york city and he becomes one of the most popular if not the most popular students at bronx and what is extraordinary that stokely carmichael attends bronx science 1956-1960 and it is during some of the key years of the heroic period of the civil rights movement 1954-1965 and in high school he becomes an organizer. in high school he is going to be mentored by the key social democratic political activist, openly gay, one of the most brilliant minds of the civil rights movement. pcs westin as a teenager and asks who is that speaking of there? some one replies to him that is byron westin the socialist and stokely says that is who i am going to be when i grow up. when we think about bronx science, very important because at bronx science and during his

high school years, stokely carmichael is going to imbibers multiple political and intellectual traditions. some are going to be jewish-american, jewish-american vibrant left, marxist, socialist, radically democratic. some are going to be black and global and pan-african. he has relatives in harlem and he is going and listening to street speakers in harlem. he is listening to pan african speeches in harlem, finds out about the leader of donna and the leader of guinea, find out about the condo so even in high school stokely is taking different traditions in. when we think about this hero period of the civil rights movement, a really short truncated history lesson, between may 17th, 1954, and

august 6th, 1965, we have one of the most extraordinary periods in american history. when we think of that period in american history may 17th, 1954, is the brown supreme court desegregation decision. 1955-56 is the 13 month montgomery bus boycott. on august 28th, 1955, 14-year-old cammed pill's body is found in the tallahassee river, up hill had said by baby to the wife of a white shopowner and was going to be lynched because of that. his body is going to be put on display on the cover of jet magazine, the african-american working-class magazine of the postwar period and that is going to galvanize a whole generation of civil rights activists including stokely carmichael. 1957 is little rock central high school and that crisis that results in mob violence against young people trying to

integrate, february 1st, 1960, is the start of the sit in amusement in north carolina where four black students demand equal service and that will spark hundreds of demonstrations across the united states but importantly it will spark the creation of an easter weekend of 1960, the student nonviolent coordinating committee and we have heroic figures from snake who are still alive today. joanne mulholland is here, we have judy richardson, congressman john lewis, and stokely carmichael was part of the student nonviolent coordinating committee as well. 1961 are the freedom rides where groups of interracial activists tried to defy racial segregation across interstate travel, very infamously on may 4th, 1961,

there is going to be a greyhound bus that is firebombed in anniston, alabama and giving us theures and portraits of the civil rights era but also going to force the hand of the attorney general robert kennedy to send in federal marshals in to the south. 1961 is also the gear of really raging protests all across the united states in terms of counter demonstrations -- 1962 is the year of james meredith, the first black student to integrate the university of mississippi and there will be three days of rioting that leave one person dead. 1963 is the centennial of the emancipation proclamation and the city of birmingham, alabama

is literally and figuratively on fire. martin luther king jr. connected with a local movement led by the reverend fred shuttlesworth to desegregate birmingham, alabama. same as the king is incarcerated in birmingham and he writes on scraps of paper letter from birmingham jail and he really defends the movement against critics who say the movement should move slower. the movement should wait and freedom and justice and democracy. one of the best lines from birmingham jail is king arguing in the future the young men and women being incarcerated and brutalized and arrested in birmingham are going to be remembered as he rose and he says they're going to be remembered as heroes for bringing the nation back to, quote, those great walls of democracy dug deep by the founding fathers.

1963 is the year of german shepherd fire hoses in birmingham, fire hoses that were powerful enough to take the bark off of trees, john f. kennedy says he is sick from the scenes he has witnessed in birmingham of german shepherds and fire hoses and over 1,000 young children, children as young as 8 years old being incarcerated for trying to desegregate birmingham, alabama. 63 is the year that i called kennedy's finest moment, june 11th, 1963, where kennedy delivers a forceful and robust and eloquent speech about race relations, american democracy and citizenship in a live nationally televised address where he calls the civil rights problem in the united states a moral problem, as old as scripture and as clear as the constitution. the very next morning after kennedy's beach, medgar evers is assassinated in jackson, mississippi and medgar evers was

unheroic field secretary for the naacp in mississippi and certainly his work has been continued by his widow, williamson. 1963 is the year of a march on washington, august 28, 1963, and it is important to remember the first words dr. king speaks at the march on washington, he says now is the time to make real the promise of democracy. the civil rights movement was always a movement about radical democracy. november 22nd, 1963, is the assassination of john f. kennedy and kennedy's assassination is really going to send shock waves throughout the country but by 1964 it also provides a context for comprehensive civil rights legislation and 64 is the year of not just the passage of the civil rights act but the year of freedom summer and this year is

the 50th anniversary of the summer project and freedom summer which is an experiment in interracial democracy in mississippi, something stokely carmichael contributed to and many others did. the freedom summer is most remembered for the murders, the tragic murders of cheney and goodman, three civil rights workers who were killed right outside philadelphia, mississippi, went missing june 21st, 1964. 1965 is recalled as the year of the voting rights act. in march of 65 in alabama at the edmond had this bridge, non-violent demonstrators were routed by alabama state troopers including future congressman john lewis who was chairman of the student nonviolent coordinating committee. that violence in 1965 inspires lyndon johnson on march 15th,

1965, in a joint address to congress to says that civil rights is a national priority. voting rights a national priority and johnson calls it a turning point in the politics of the dignity of humankind and the destiny of democracy. august 6th, 1965, the voting rights act is passed. five days later, los angeles explodes after an encounter between police and local people. that is the heroic period of the civil rights movement. i preface my comments on stokely carmichael by giving a short sketch precisely because even before stokely carmichael called for black power in 1966, he is one of the key activists in united states working for civil rights and radical democracy during the second half of the

civil rights movement's heroic period. we think about stokely carmichael, before we can talk about the movement for black power we think of him as a community organizer, a community activist who from 1965 to 1966 was arrested 27 times for civil rights organizing. a student right here in washington d.c. at howard university who joined the non-violent action group, a group of some of the most committed and brilliant young activists of the period who are trying not just to desegregate parts of the south and parts of washington d.c. and places like cambridge, md. they're trying to transform democratic institutions in the united states of america. that is what they're trying to do and what is interesting about stokely carmichael is stokely finds his vocation as an organizer. he finds his vocation as an organizer, visit mississippi for

the first time at the age of 19 in 1961 and will be the first time he is also arrested. he is arrested as a freedom writers june 8th, 1961, and he is going to spend not just time in hinds county jail in jackson, mississippi but is going to spend 30 days in parchment penitentiary, parchment farm, the state of mississippi's worst prison farm and it is in parchment and people like john lewis are there, so many different jim farmers there, so many different activists spending time in jail but what is interesting is carmichael adds experience in jail is going to galvanize his political activism so rather than be discouraged by that time period in jail, he calls up his mother before going to new orleans and they're going to get to mississippi by way of new orleans and tells his mother there is going to the media and

journalists calling up and he wants her to tell them no matter what happens she is proud of him, she tells him may charles, i don't want you involved in that civil rights mess. stokely tells her the movement has become his life and he doesn't want her, when you're speaking to your mother you don't want your mom to embarrass you in front of people, saying i don't want to be embarrassed, whenever the press calls you, the line to tell them is you are proud of me so stokely is in parchment penitentiary and the press does call her up and tells him she is so proud of her son she doesn't know what she is going to do. so she did follow and he did stokely's advice. we think of carmichael as one of that key organizers, he is going to fall in love with the south.

that first visit in 1961 to mississippi is going to be just the tip of the iceberg. people like bob moses in mississippi, stokely visits jackson. by 62 he is in greenwood mississippi, 62, 63, 64, by the time of freedom summer, stokely is the second congressional district director heading activists who are organizing in the mississippi delta. when we think about stokely and the heroic period of the civil rights movement what was he doing? he was an organizer, living and working among poor black people in the mississippi delta and when we think about the black folks in the mississippi delta in the postwar period these are african-americans who oftentimes didn't have birth certificates, would never have certificates of death, many never had left the

surrounding confine of the plantations that they were gone and with the student nonviolent coordinating committee was not serving as leaders but provide help for local leadership. fannie lou hamer, we celebrate this past week the 52 anniversary of her speech. .. >> carmichael is going to be one of the biggest cheerleaders and

supports of fanny lieu hammer. he talked about fanny in an interview in 1965 with stud turkal. and he said martin luther king is very important but fanny is more important. and he said what do you mean? how can she be more important? he said because there are more of her in the united states than dr. king's. his vision of american democracy is found when ms. hamer gets respects, credit and access she deserved. what is is interesting for us is before becoming a black power icon and this image and symbol of political revolution. before he is with castro and

others, stokely carmichael is pursuing radical freedom in the deep south. that is what he is doing. and one of the most interesting parts for me was the relationship between dr. king and carmichael. they were friends. they met at 1963 at howard. stokely was his body guard during freedom fest. they march together during selma and that relationship really comes to the fore once stokely is chairman of the committee in 1966. the march from june 7-june 26 is the march that transforms

stokely carmichael's life and the civil riots movement. that is when the student is shot on campus and they march to prove a black man with march through mississippi without here but he is shot and injured and carmichael, dr. king, and the civil rights leaders are coming to his bed side and vow to continue his march. it is a along that march that stokely carmichael after being arrested for the 27th time in greenwood, mississippi is going to call for black power. right? what did black power mean? well black power according to carmichael meant radical social, cultural, political and ethical ratification. dr. king said don't use there term black power because people

are equating that term with violence. carmichael says the decision to release black power was a collective decision and black people need to define political and social funonmes for themselves. it is minteresting now. we talk about ferguson and the politics and the police brutality. but the black people stokely carmichael was concerned about were the poorest of the poor. it wasn't just students even though he was concerned about students. it wasn't elites. it was the poorest of the poor because they were designed right

and citizenship and closed out of democracy. king and carmichael's ship is close between 1966 and king's death april 4th, 1968. in the course of doing research on stokely's life his anti-war activism was fascinating to me. this person who is one of the people who inspired dr. king to come out against the war at riverside church in new york april 4th, 1967. carmichael gives a powerful speech in 1966 at the university of berkeley and 10,000 people are there. he criticized the war in vietnam and talked to white students about american democracy, racial

privilege and what can be done in the context of the civil rights and black power struggle to transform democratic institutions in the united states. i have interviewed people who were there at the speech at berkeley and what they all say is that speech for them was a human rights speech. carmichael's anti-war activism inspired them to speak out against the car. king and carmichael my april 15th, 1967 are on the same platform at the largest demonstration up until that point in the new york city at the un building. 400,000 people are there. carmichael speaks before king criticizing the war in vietnam and criticizing violences that is happening in the united states and connects the war in vietnam to the civil rights and

black power movements domestically. ma dr. king speaks after that and they meet ever the speech is over and stokely teases king and this gives you a great portrait of their relationship.

king ask stokely to go to church to him and he said i am out here doing the work of the people. dr. king says i really want you to come to my church tomorrow because i am giving my full speech against the war in vietnam. and stokely replies he is going to be there and in the front row of the pew and there is great footage of the speech april 30th, 1967 and after he makes the speech and vows to study war no more the person who is leading the standing ovation is stokely carmichael and he has the dark shades on, of course. and he is doing his thing. but it is stokely carmichael. when we think about stokely carmichael and what he represents and why he is so important -- he is not just appear activist for radical

democracy. after becoming a black power activist he is a full blown revolutionary being an anti-war activist and critic of the system. he provides a context for the black panther party. 1965-1966 it is carmichael who goes to lions, county alabama the buckle of the black belt and helping local people and others organize for democracy in this county that is 80% african-american and no black public officials. 50 years later we have similar instances now. but in 1965 trying to organize there was hugely dangerous.

they organized a freedom organization whose nickname is the black panther party. and that symbol travels all the way to oakland, california when we think about the black panther party for self-defense. so when we think about stokely carmichael who is going to be named honorary prime minister he is going to provide a platform for the anti-war movement and the different radical activist are going to be participating in in the late 1960's. stokely's legacy is a transfo

transformt transformtive lesacy but many have not heard of him and that is because he leaves the united states. in 1956 he did a five month tour of the world. he is in londoned with people like clr james. he is in cuba with castro. castro says stokely carmichael is under his protectio and if anything happens to stokely there is going to be trouble. he is in algeria with the revolutionary leaders who offer him head quarters in support something that carmichael will not take them up on but the black panthers will in a couple years, right? he is in ghana where he meets two people that have been

extradited there and the leader who told the french who leave guinea and suffered after. he met up with mira, who was a beautiful south african singer, activist and icon who was introduced in the 1950's and they begin a romance and are married by 1968 and become this global pan-african couple. when we think about the international trip, meeting with them changes and transforms stokely carmichael's life. he comes back as a committed pan

africanist tat is convinced the key of the liberation lies in the unification of africa and promises to return to africa. by 1969 he does that and between '69 and 1998 even though returning for political speaking tours of the united states he becomes a committed anti-panafricanist revolutionary and changes his name and becomes by the 1980s in the contex of the reagan administration the counter revolution that transforms the dreams the radicals carried with them. in that context he believes in the idea of a global political

revoluti revolution. one of my parent parts of studying kwame ture is reading about obama's reaction to seeing him at columbia in the early '80s. and young obama in his early 20's talking about kwame ture was talking about pan africanism and critiqued capitalism and he is speaking words of fire. and obama recounts from dreams from my father he says his eyes blazed as he spoke. the eyes of a mad man or a saint, right? and i am hear to say that kwame ture was neither a madman or a saint. he was a radical political activist who was unapologetic in

pursuing cultural and social and economically freedom for blacks. he had flaws and shortcomings and i can spell them out. but what is so important is he provides us with a blue print to understand american race relations in a different and expansive ways from the cast of ic iconic characters who we usually look at. he provides a context for radical political self determination even when it is unpopular. speaking truth to power even when the standing ovation stop. right? so when you measure what does it mean to work in the mississippi delta with poor black sharecroppers? what does it mean to work in tent cities after sharecroppers have been kicked out of where

they live because they want to organize for the right to vote? what does it mean when you are writing about small deed democracy in 1966 in places like the new republican and the new york review of books but by the time you start saying you are against the war in vietnam people don't want to publish you and hear your opinion? kwame ture was a political revolutionary even after that age ended in the united states. so his life is crucial in our contempory peter. when we think about where we are in 2015 on the 50th anniversary of the civil rights act and stokely's activism helped make it happen. sometime we have books frame

from a top down experience. certainly it is both. top down and bottom up. the reason the social and political change in the 19606 happened because social movements created such disru disruption in the united states and there had to be legislative and political solutions apply to real world problems. president kennedy when he speaks on june 11th, 1963 says this much when he says there is a reblution happening right now in the united states and that revolution can be violent or peaceful. right? with we think about stokely the most important aspect of carmichael's activism was the way he helped organize poor black people to try to transform

democratic institutions in the united states that didn't want to be transformed. we have this idea that is over today and two everybody loved the fact it was going on. so you start with the beginning, middle and end. it is a fairy tale. rosa parks, martin luther king junior and it ends with obama, right? by the time obama's election people say that is it. the civil rights movement is over. and people kill tell black people you got obama, what else do you want? as if you cash obama's checks and eat obama's food. i have not gotten my invitation to the whitehouse, you know? when we think about the civil rights movement it was always

contested. people had a view of freedom thad that didn't include ella baker who was the lead organize of the student non-violent cordinator and told the students on easter weekend it was more about a hamburger and the reason she told the students the sit-in was about more than a hamburger is because by april of 1960 new york times and mainstream media were trying to say the movement is about people wanting access to lunch counters. ella baker said this isn't about lunch counters or hamburgers. this is about democracy.

james baldwin writes in 1961 that the young people who are organizer and in demonstrations all across the south at lunch counters are doing it to do more than what baldwin calls sip tasteless cups of coffee at sleazy lunch counters across the south. that is james baldwin not we. what is important when we think about stokely carmichael and the civil rights movement and where we are today in the context of american race relations and civil rights and citizenship is that kwame ture provides an example of a life well-lived. he is not a hedgefund leader.

he didn't invent the i-phone. but provided millions of poor black people hope. he did it through organizing for small democracy a political revolution and calling for black power and black self-determination. the whole idea of black is beautiful is impossible without stokely carmichael. the whole idea of sell determination and black people thinking of themselves in way that that in the 1960s were profoundly impossible in some ways. that they were eloquent, beautiful, intelligent, that they had the right to disagree with each other and the mainstream is possible without stokely carmichael.

i willconclude by saying that the most burped thing to me about writing the book, "stokely: a life," was providing an introduction to stokely carmichael/kwame ture to a generation of americans who don't realize the profound impact he had on american democracy and globally. and whether you agree or disagree with the aspects of what he did he was always, always personal sincere. his sincerity and love for the underdog and poor people and passionate belief in social and political justice is what stands out for me. and the fact he really, really walked the dtalk. he didn't just say he was advocating for black equality.

he lived a life of black equality even if that meant not getting the benefits that would have come if he had moderated his stance. so the important part to remember about stokely carmichael is his willingness and courage to speak truth to power and his willingness to live and work and die among poor black people and out standing and provides a legacy hopefully we can all learn from. thank you. [applause]

>> this is booktv's coverage. and was peniel joseph talking about his book on stokely carmichael. he is making his way back to the set here. he was walking with the producer of booktv and they are wawing walking here. he is going to join us to do a call-in on civil rights. we are pleased to have another author long-term senator joining us, james clyburn. congressman, clyburn we wanted

to start off with a call-in question and how many times were you arrested during the civil rights hay day? >> guest: i didn't keep track. but i talked about the first one and the last one in the book. the first one is the day i met my wife. we met in jail. the last time was in columbia, south carolina in 1961. i remember that one because that arrest led to a landmark breach of peace case called edwards against south carolina. it began a law school case that

most universities use the case book method use that case to teach from. i happen to be one of those arrested that day. i remember those two. in between a lot of times we got arrested and were never really charged. just taken to the police station, taken off the streets and put back on with once the crowd disbursed. >> host: why were you and emily clyburn arrested and what year was it? >> guest: march of 1966 and it was six weeks after the students in greenboro, north carolina were arrested and several weeks before we first met -- greensboro -- at shaw university

in raleigh to form a group that was being talked about. i was locked up around 10 a.m. and emily was among the students they didn't have room for in the jails so they herded them back to the the campus of south carolina state and chaplain university. they came around 6:30 to bring us food. she talked in the door and walked toward me with this hamburger in her hands and i reached for it, she pulled it become, broke it in half, gave me half and she ate the other half. i was so grateful for that half hamburger and married her 18

months later. at our 10th anniversary she fessed up and told me it wasn't a chance meeting. she said she and her roommate, they were standing there in the dorm room watching me walk across the campus, and she told her roommate we didn't make a good couple and she was going to be my wife. she set at with her plan that happened on june 24th, 1961. so this past june we celebrated our 53 anniversary. >> host: james clyburn represents the sixth district of south carolina since 1993. it has a little columbia, charleston and and lot of other territoryies. 202-585-380 forestern central.

585-3891 if you live out west. you can tweet us and facebook.com/booktv. we will try to get to those comments as well. congressman, clyburn, age 12, what made you become an activist and what made it happen? >> guest: growing up my dad and mom were very active and around 1951-'52 is when things starting percolating in south carolina. my father was a minister and the man who was organized in all of the people was a minister

delane. my dad at breakfast every morning we would be praying for the people and we started forming youth councils of the naacp throughout the south and i went to the meetings at the church back in just about two months before my 13 birthday. in some way, i guess i went to the rest room but when the meeting was over with i was the president of the sumpter youth council. and that just grew to the sit-ins in 1960 and the forming of snick in april at shaw university that year and then i met martin luther king, jr. in october down at moore house

college and met john lewis at the same time. it came from my parents and associates in college and went through to today and here we are, june john lewis and i having spent 22 years in the congress together. >> host: you are the democratic leader in the house of representative, right? >> guest: yes. >> host: what do you were growing up in the jim crowe era? >> guest: in 1955 my high school band was invited to march in the christmas parade. it was the first time there were black units.

it was customary in those days for santa clause to be the last unit riding on a fire truck. after santa clause the horses from a local equestrian stable would march. they were the last things because of the droppings they left along the way and their aroma that flowed from those droppings. when he got down there to march in the parade it turned out we were placed in the parade behind the horses. it was very, very difficult and very memorable to try to play that clarinet while side stepping droppings and trying to breathe in and out the way you have to with the aroma of the stale oats. well, that to me, was probably

the most lasting memory from that year because because of that i left that high school. and went to madison academic where my mother had gone to school and that is where i graduated from and i believe it was the experience at that united methodisschool in camden, south carolina where i first interacting with white teach teachers and people that containi changed me dramatically. it was the most transformational thing until i let martin luther king, jr. in october of 1960 and setting up with him until 4:30 in the morning was

transformational. those two experiences shaped me more than anything >> host: peniel joseph was just talking about his recent book, "stokely: a life." here is the cover. what is improgression of the first generation of the civil rights movement? >> guest: very important. congressman clyburn and senator lewis were activist and shaped by jim crowe seg -- segregation and they shift from political organizer to electoral politics and they did it successfully and maintained an understanding with

grassroots. congressman clyburn and congressman lewis represent accountability. once they achieved political power they remembered their backgrounds as civil rights activist. it is an extrordinary situations. >> host: peniel joseph, what was stokely carmichael's reputation among those on the ground? >> guest: before becoming a black power activist he is well

known. before he is an icon and in the front page of the new york time s he was someone people knew has a snick activist. john lewis and him were friends. and he remembered he instantly liked stokely carmichael. among young people and activist he had a good reputation. he was stubborn and cracked wise jokes. king loved him like a little brother. stokely wasn't in awe of anyone. >> host: congressman clyburn would you agree with that? >> guest: yes. i was in south carolina, i

remember, we went to raleigh, north carolina easter weekend in 1960. part of that where talk about in my book because you take rosa par parks. parks was a phenomenal part of the case and when you read the court case that desegregated transit there was a footnote in the rosa parks case that said we didn't have to determine the rule on this issue. we have already made that determination in the case of sarah flemming versus the south

carolina electric and gas company. there was a lot going on in south carolina but we were not a media center and therefore you will not read and hear a lot about it. you write a lot about john lewis. he talked about having been arrested this morning. the first time he was every physically attacked was in rock hill, south carolina. and the man that went up there to rescue them was james t mccain from sumpter south carolina when was my pointing league baseball coach and the one guy my dad let me go to the meetings with him. my dad trusted him more than anyone else in the movement. john lewis will tell you that

mccain was one of the most impressive people he ever met. i got to know him not just as a movement guy but my baseball coach when i was 14. you will find these in my book but not most other books because most people never saw south carolina and what was going on. martin luther king, jr. referred to mcclaw as the mother of the movement. she went to highline the folks school to teach and taught rosa parks. she was from charleston, south carolina. >> host: james clyburn, peniel joseph, let's take calls. elonzo in north carolina. go ahead with your question or comment, sir. >> caller: yes, either one can answer, but i would like to know

what is their opinion about the current gridlock as it relates to stokely carmichael and brown and those people who probably foresee what i termed as the ignorance our country is faced with now because the demographics are changing here in the united states. a lot of what seems to be what stokely and brown spoke against was those that were at the top and how for their own reasons they oppressed people and now we find that even the white power structure which is becoming increasingly decreased -- why find there is an awareness that is causing the kinds of gridlock we find in our government.

and their philosophy which isn't being challenged is based on a lot of thinking of dread scott and the supreme court decision. >> host: you got a lot on the table. let start with peniel joseph and then congressman clyburn. >> guest: i think where we are at with the race relations in the country is a crucial point. i think 50 years ago with stokely and brown they talked about institutional racism and trying to transform the movement. this idea of black equality has lost some steam is what the fergus ferguson, missouri and other cases are showing. when we think about social economic indicators, 43 million

in the united states and only 10% make 90,000 or more. so 90% of african-americans are not doing well. mass incarceration and underemployment. where we are at for a certain group of african-americans is extraordinary and we cannot deny the progress this group made but they are only a small subsection of the larger group. what that group needs to do along with poor folks is talk about black quality and racial justice. we cannot say we have obama and the civil rights movement and it is over. >> guest: i agree with that. let's move it into the political arena. we just experienced depictions

in ferguson, missouri. but let me tell you something. i have looked at this. i had my staff do research for me. we found out that if you look at the 2012 elections in ferguson, missouri, 56% of the african-americans in that community voted in the presidential election in 2012. in april of this year, only 6% of them bothered to vote. in the local elections for mayor, the why who they say incen incenseive tv -- insensitive was up for election unopposed and only 6% bothered to vote. something has to be done to get people to understand their job

isn't over when you elect an african-american to the president or the congress. i don't have a vote on the school board or the city council or the county commissioner. and i am not the one affecting your children's lives in that school house. you have to take those local and state elections just as seriously as you take the presidential elections. president obama may have delivered the affordable care act however the implementation of parts of that act must be done at the state level. so it must be the state governor's and legislatures who determine whether or not medicare gets expapped and if senior citizens get taken care

of. this is at the state and local levels. we have to do a better job of getting people to understand these local elections are just as important to your children and your grandchildren has who sits in the whitehouse. that to me is where we have gun to fall short. back in the activism days we were marching to the polls as if there were more tomorrow. today we keep waiting on tomorrow. >> host: george is calling in from murphysboro, tennessee. you are on the line. >> caller: i want to ask a question to professor joseph and make a comment i want them both to address. when i was a at a seminary ge

heard carmichael and he made a statement saying if america mess the africa we will burn this area down. what did stokely carmichael think of the naacp and the urb league. congressman clyburn, congressmen like to study but i would like to see you go out and support your family and live on $7.25 an hour and tell us about it. >> host: congressman you want to start? >> guest: i wasn't always a congressman. i know what it is like to sleep three in a bed. i remember when we got our first indoor toilet and running water. i have had those experiences. i have worked for a $1.25 an

hour. i used to relocate out houses in order to make enough money to pay my college education. i didn't come along when we had pel grants and students loans. so none of that i experienced. my wife used to walk two and a half miles to school and back home every afternoon because they were not allowed school buses in her school districts. no body can tell me how tough it is to make these livings. but i am not going to be sorry for having getting elected to congress. i went door to door and i am living my dreams and spending every day to make sure that pell grants are there for your children and student aid is there for them.

whatever the government maybe i am working june june lewis and the other congressional black caucus members to make it work. and i i want you to know i wasn't always a member of congress. >> guest: in terms of stokely, he would have wanted people to join the urban league and naacp because he believed in organizing. if more people in ferguson were organized they had have more political power. so he felt even if you didn't follow his way wherever you were you mead needed to organize. groups like the naacp are important. and they are advocates for economic justice and more importantly they are advocates for black quality. i think the biggest thing we don't talk about in america in 2014 is the idea of black

quality. that is more than racial judgment. it is saying if black people receive equalty there is a trickle up affect for everyone. gays and lesbians, poor, physically challenged but you have to talk about black quality because the country is founded on racial slavery. it is uncomfortable and i don't think it is the president who has to talk about it. it is all of us who are active citizens. it matters for all of us even if we are not black because it will have a healthy impact on our democra democracy. >> host: peniel joseph, how do you think your life has been different from congressman

clyburn? >> guest: very different. i went to a high school that was integrated. my neighborhood was predominantly black but if you achieved and had educational students you could leave that neighborhood. so there was definitely, i would say, more opportunities and more access. at the same time, i think one of the interesting things about the jim crowe period that congressman lewis and clyburn lived through, we are facing a new jim crowe with massive incarceration and also segeration in the residential areas. blacks and whites are likely to live, die and go to church together. the recoursources are not there

though in the black community as much. my life was shaped by a different jim crowe. my encounters with the police were not the same. i was stopped but never taken in because i had conversations to tell them i am a student and didn't do anything. but i think my life was contoured by a different jim crowe that is different than what the congressman had. >> host: peniel joseph was our guest on in-depth for three yours. you can watch three hours of him talking about all of the books including "stokely: a life." james clyburn's book was covered

and his wife in aikin, south carolina and you can watch that online as well. next call is from steve in washington, d.c. hi, steve. >> caller: stokely carmichael was an atheist and how did that play out in the otherwise greatly christian civil rights movement? >> guest: that is a great question. his people were methodist but his own believes were atheist/agnostic. he had read the bible and sang church songs and hymns so he used that christian ethic that was a part of the heroic

multiple for the organizing. he knows to multiple churches in washington, d.c. and other churches toward the end so has a great relationship with the black church and understands that is the root and seed bed for black political activism in the united states. he realized if you are going to say you want equal rights and racial justice and whether people believe it because of a philosophical reasons or god has led us to this movement he was fine. during freedom summer he is organizing in mississippi and he is with young white organizers who volunteered to come into the deep south. and he said i know some are

marxist and some are others but he said if they thing this is a result of god then thank you god. >> host: do you view this as a christian movement? >> guest: it was a religious movement not christian. there were as many jews involved in the rights as christians. there were other religions. i studied all of the great religions. the first a i got in college was in comparative religion. my father was a minister. i grew up in the fundamentalist church. we believed in dunking and my wife's church believed in sprinkles. all of these are symbolic of how

to live and find that one four letter word: love. love thy neighbor as thy self. all of the religions teach that. the leaders and face of the movement were all christians put dr. king wouldn't have been successful without the participation of the jews. in philadelphia, mississippi the three kids that got killed during freedom summer one was african-american and the other two were jews. >> host: freedom summer '64. >> guest: that is part of what the activity is going on. the 50th anniversary of the

civil rights act and the 50 anniversary of freedom summer that led to the act. next year we will celebrate whatever led to the '65 voting rights. we are going to be -- we are already planning that. john lewis and i have had a lot of discussion son on what we can do to celebrate this. one thing would be to get congress to support the effectiveness of the voting act. >> host: do you remember where you were when lbj signed the civil rights act?

>> guest: 10% of the money in the law had to go where 20% of the population or more was under the poverty level for 30 years.

we work on thes things every day to address the issue of under and unemployment and to try to reach people who are suffering today because the economy, the recovery hasn't gotten to them the way it should. we are trying to direct those resources and that is one of the ways we are doing it. >> host: catherine in emuclaw, washington. >> guest: i want to thank the gentlemen for their service and their teaching. i am 70 years old, white woman who remembers very well freedom summer, emit till and all remember all of that. and i don't want to see it happen again. i have been so angry at what

happened in ferguson, trayvon martin, the two killings in new york by police man. i just want to see it stop. this country is like suburban kings of france. it forgives nothing. help us learn how to organize again. ...

students to say we are going to meet at 12:00 tomorrow and we are going to march and 2000 people showed up. today we have got twitter. we have got facebook. we have got all the social media stuff and i believe if we were to organize ourselves using social media rather than worry about all this foolishness that we get off the internet lets put