depictions of moments that were important to my father that played key roles in my father's life. >> "malcolm little: the boy who grew up to be malcolm x." here's the cover of the book. ilyasah shabazz, daughter of malcolm and eddie shoe bombs who is the author. and now live coverage from the national book festival continues up next, a presentation by nina khrushcheva, granddaughter of of nikita khrushchev. her book, "the lost khrushchev: a journey into the gulag of the russian mind." she is being introduced now. >> propaganda and then in the political process. this study is that with national collective historic experience. she is professor at new school

in new york. -- [inaudible] as most -- she's a good writer, articles appear regulate in the near times, "the wall street journal," the "newsweek" and many other publications. her book was published on the cnn website as a source of authoritative information on current political developments in russia. fortunately, or rather unfortunate because -- [inaudible] the publication of this book is timely. because of this conflict we are witnessing -- propaganda. how our government justifies its action in ukraine -- [inaudible] and how typical russian when people tend to believe, is being

criticized. this book explains why all that happen. and guides to russian people's minds which are still not free from any kind of invisible internal -- [inaudible] so please welcome to the stage with nina khrushcheva. [applause] >> thank you very much. the introduction is certainly very much better than much more than i deserve, but thank you. thank you, all of you, for being here. is an incredible honor. i was talking to somebody today and i said, i don't feel like a writer at all, ever. i write trifles. i write small articles about what arnold schwarzenegger

should become american ambassador to russia today. so the fact that i am treated seriously your is a great, great honor. i hope i will not disappoint you entirely. i want to start from signed right away that when i speak, when i wrote my book, and i speak today i do not speak of his on behalf of the ship family. i did not speak on behalf -- christian family. i don't speak on behalf of any group. i'm not channeling nikita khrushchev anyway possible. and this is very important because recently some members of my family said because of critical of putin, participate in the anti-russian campaign. i don't feel this way in america and actually thought and russia until very recently we are in a free country so we can agree to disagree. but apparently we can't.

and that's the subject of my book. it's the gulags of the minds in the gulags of the russian mind is that the state is more important than any individual. it unfortunately, it does until the day, and the point that i'm making is that we don't need barb wire to keep us in check. we will build it all on our own and that actually explains vladimir putin support, 80% of the population really feels that he's doing the right thing in ukraine. at the gulags of the mind. i would like to read a few lines from the beginning of my book. i actually, the reason i do is because i myself am very fascinated that it happened to me. i guess if i read it out loud i may feel better because i still cannot believe it. so just bear with me for a couple of minutes.

and i'm reading from prelude which is called prelude only in name. this is nina, the oldest daughter. i was introduced to an old balding man with glasses. the man greeted me with silence holding his gaze. granddaughter, he said. the kgb recently uncovered an account saying your grandfather was a nazi traitor. i cringed. a nazi traitor? at the time i knew little of him but what i did know, joseph stalin had ordered him to awarded him with two medals for bravery in battle and that implied heroism, not treachery. all at once i realized who this man was. stalin's old powerful foreign minister, and once considered

almost as ruthless and terrible as stalin. perhaps because more of the same inspired the infamous cocktails a makeshift bomb, i'd always imagined his voice to be gruff, sinister. instead, it was surprisingly subdued. though beneath it i detected something sharp and ominous like the point of a double-play. don't worry, he added, it's rubbish. everyone knows he died in a plane crash in 1943. if it was such he died, why mention it at all? growing up in the ussr i didn't have to read george orwell to know all about doublespeak. so that was the beginning of my journey was many, many years ago, any decades ago, and that's how i was introduced to my birth

grandfather, nikita khrushchev's son, and it was mentioned that it was an investigation the it was indeed because i grew up knowing that khrushchev's son was always hero. my birth grandfather was always a hero, but, in fact, as it turned out in recent years more and more accounts have come out to convince the public that he was a traitor to the nazis. he was a benedict arnold of the russian state, of the soviet state. and the reason is such an important story to me is that today we witness woman look at ukraine and we look at the russian propaganda, the propaganda against kiev authorities, we hear a lot of this nazi rhetoric come well, that tf is just like the nazis

about as we were told recently i vladimir putin, the siege of those cities in east ukraine just like the siege of leningrad during world war ii. ..

>> and more dearly paid his father, my birth great grandfather, because suddenly in the story the redric of russia today and the reason nikita khrushchev, which i think the greatest thing he did was deannounce stallin during the secret speech and later on wi. it is no longer seen as an act of brave. instead it is dismissed as a

simple act of political revenge. and then the story goes because russians love literature and they are great at inventing stories. that is why they are so good at propaganda because all that is is inventing stories. as the story goes today, if it were not my grandfather or family i would say that is a great invention and reads like a good detective novel. and the story goes today that when stalin discovered that khrushchev was a trader and he already died and they are dockments he died an march 11, 1943. and stalin discovered instead of him dying he was actually defective to the nazis.

he was a fighter pilot and flew soviet fighter jet. so the story goes, the new story goes, his plane fell down and he was such a strong man and i do love this kind of creation of a hero but an anti-hero. he took a rope and he dragged it to the nazi front. can you imagine? it is march. you are in washington, d.c. and in march in deep russia it snowed and they have thick woods so it is hard for a person even to go without running into obstructions but he dragged the plane on a rope, he was that

strong, and then he was very happy there apparently and stalin was very much incensed and he ordered to steal that from the nazis so he sent an operative to steal him. and those of you who know a bit of russian history, stalin's own son, his oldest son, was captured by the nazis also. if you think about it, it is when you think about propaganda it doesn't make sense but reads beautifully, so when stalin ordered to steal his own son from the nazis in 1941 he could not do it. but he was more successful with the khrushchev son in 1943. you would be prized because some of you may remember nikita

khrushchev was stout, round figure and almost my height. he was 5-4. he was a very short man. a lot of soviet leaders in fact tend to be short. i wonder what that means. we will not speculate here, though. i knew he was a very tall young man. 6-1. so because he was so tall those who tried to steal him couldn't fit him into one potato sack so they had to sew two potato sacks together. can you imagine this spy group sewing potato bags together? that happened allegedly. great joseph stalin looked into his eyes and said how dare you

and he was shot supposedly. so in 1956, 13 years later, khrushchev decided to go after stalin and deannounce stalin. what we have here is a family story, individual story, as an explanation of a grand formula. by book was written before crimea but surprisingly president putin gave me a hand being able to talk about my book more because he accused khrushchev personally of blinding russia, raping mother

russia, of crimea. so it is all stout, 5-4, nikita khrushchev's fault. he kept crimea from stalin and many other great things. he put khrushchev at the middlef of it. and in 1954 crimea was transferred from the russian republic within the soviet unionian to the ukrainian union. it was more economic and administrative because crimea is connected to ukraine but not russia. that is why there is new offense in the areas on the border precisely because the russian's need some connection to crimea otherwise it becomes an economic issue. my books that geled the past

issues and new issues together. the book isn't so much about nikita khrushchev. people keep asking me him and when i say he is my grandfather -- my mother julia was adopted by the older khrushchev who were her grandparents who were her daughter. by the reason i think the stor is so important is because personal stories are rarely told. it is all about the man going to

the united states and he and jimmy carter didn't get along. or how ronald reagan got along. in america where i have lived for almost 25 years. i am not an immigrant. i am an ex-pat because of the last soviet leader saying it is a free country and you can do whatever you want. and i said i guess i want to see how it is to be in a foreign coapt country and where else can you go for that? so i came to the united states. i was trying to bring a family story to the kremlin story. my book is filled with anado do

and i was able to interview a great many people and put the tidbits that usually get lost in understanding of politics and instead present them in my book because, you know, kremlin leaders are people, too. as much as you may not believe that, that is what they are. what i was trying to do in my book was look at how women look at politics. we talk about mother russia a lot. what does it mean because usually it is all men there? at some point i came up with a joke. the russian president while putin wasn't a russian president, warming up putin's kremlin seat from 2008-2012.

he is 5-3. i will stop there. he seemed modernizing. obama decided in 2009 he would be a good partner for reset. what a mistake that was. the russian system because there is this mother russia looming as an example of who we should aspire to they are very pat patriarchial and i wanted to show the woman's life and who was behind the great man when we talk about mother russia. my grandmother nina who i love and was named after her. some of you may remember her

visiting in 1959. this was almost the only access to the a family portrait that americans every got before, of course, gorbachach game. but it was overshadowed because her and nancy reagan didn't get along. a lot of narrative is about the woman and how they looked at their life and close to the kremlin power but also how they were trying to branch out of the very rigorous system where you are supposed to be a great communist and you are supposed to be in great service to the state and you have to deny ever single individual impulse you have. and one of the stories i am

talking about is leonid's wife, actually they were never married, but she was a great example of a woman who expired to be a perfect soviet. that female suffrage that government put forward was a total sham in so many cases and in her case in particular so she was inspiring to be a pilot and one of those great young communist who was always walking around with newspaper. the french walk would a piece of bread and she had the newspaper

always. she was rosey the riveter of the soviet union. -- rosie -- she died recently at the age of 101 and until her last moment she kept that soviet fo formula alive. that strength of the spirit was fascinating and fascinating how it was wasted on presenting an image that was hollow and fake inside almost like the soviet union was symbol for me. it showed the great achievements and they were achievements. i am not denying in 75 years the soviets really inspired to do a lot of things. and then suddenly all of the

achievements came to nothing. the space program was almost dying before the americans started to pitch in. all of the collages we were producing for for the eastern europe region who wants them? it was sort of this woman became a symbol for me of heroism but it is a great hypocrisy and in propaganda is it is called the big lie. her story is fascinating in its own right if you take communism out of it. they got married -- well they didn't but they lied to the family because leonid was a

womanizer so shoo wanted to make sure everyone knew. then he went to the front and i think the hope maybe went away. she never admitted that but that was my sense. she was a russian woman originally born in kiev, though. russians, you may or may not know that about them, but we want to be french really. we try to marry french, learn french, copy french passions. not always good. if you know some people who had to leave the soviet union for generations of russian business -- it is all french. they spoke and married french and whatnot. this woman in the middle of the war, leonid is in evacuation and

away from moscow, took up an affair with a french man which for a russian woman was a major achievement but in some ways a lot of iren -- irony -- she was inspiring to be a pilot and stayings up with a french man and wants to marry him but he was married. she decided in the middle of the war to go and learn french. i don't know how she managed that because that was stalin's soviet union but like you get your education at john hopkins university and you learn french and get a diplomatic post in paris. it is soviet union. it doesn't happen that way unless it is assigned to you for

various reasons it isn't going to happen. somehow in her interested, slightly delusional mind, she decides to learn french and get the paris and meet the guy and say hi, i made it on my own. she went to learn french and left her children, one of them was my mother, she left them with the khrushchev in 1942 and said i don't want the children anymore because they mess up my life. once again we tried to be normal. but we are russia we cannot be normal. well, don'ts -- don't laugh, it is true. house education and workforce committee countries have nine time zones? we have 11! the first lady of russia was trying to pretrend we were modern and squeezed it to nine.

from finland to japan -- that is a lot of countries. we do imagine the world not the way it is. we are all guilty of that. so we try to be normal as i said. my birth mother, and i know and loving her although i didn't write about her in the book. so french didn't work out. she was accused as people did then contact with foreigners and went to log.

she didn't deserve to spend ten years in the detention camp. and one of the fun facts and russia's fun facts are always very tragic. and one of those facts was one of the pussy riot members. those young women who sang against putin and one went to prison? one was released last year she actually was in the same camp as leonid's supposed wife. this is the camp that continued to exist. it was refurbished and they kept track of human rights violations today of course but in her times

in 1940's there was so much thing. but it is the same camp. in those times it was called [russian name] and then for a second imagine russia is no longer a soviet union and still has the camps under stalin there. that will mess up your mind. this isn't only a mind issue but the geographical issue or also the mind and not the geographical. so i am trying to tell a lot of stories like this in my look and bring them together to understanding what russia is today and why indeed all of it, whatever is happening in russia, somehow becomes the fault of

nikita khrushchev. and of course, not only this but his son's story is a very easy enterance into that kind of mindset today. he was my role model and a womanizer. i don't chase after men too much. and you know, it happens to very many people they don't need to be accused of being traders for that, correct? when i was investigating his life and interviewing people still alive i found a whole batch of war time letters that my mother felt so painful to look at so shoved them under her bed and they were there for 30 years never touched. i uncovered them and was reading the letters and it was

fascinating to see what this young man/boys went through when bonding together and trying to fight nazis. i always discovered men at war, at least men in world war ii were very much like woman and it was very homoerotic. a letter from a friend saying i miss you like a young man is missing a girl. and it was like what is up with that? why were you missing a girl? and i interviews detectives in new york to get the mindset when you a are man but facing a horrible difficulty or horrible hardship and it really bonds you and you become very affectionate

and that was confirmed to me. it was special and beautiful to read. of course, watt i also discovered when reading the letters and published them in a book and tried to make as many as possible because they are beautiful. this is a literary and book festival. we lose the ability to write beautifully and communicate and this people as simple as they were they really wrote beautiful letters. so what i discovered also, and i was thinking that man who is accused of being a trader, he was in full service to his motherland and mother russia and suddenly all of this is being dismissed so i felt like putting the letters in is very important to just show how incompetent the

war was and all of the people used for campaign slaughter. and at the same time i was learning about leonid and he was what i discovered the first dissident. it was way before the word even existed existed. it was '60s, '70s and '80s who protested that. but he also protested the regime. he studied navigation and you have to study the history of the communist party and the world socialist movement and the other fun subjects. and he would always get d's and was proud of them. it is 1937 and he is proud of getting a d in history of the

communist party. so he was a very interesting boy. and every bit of humanity he showed was considered at the time as a bad soviet. he was a bad communist. he was often put in aviation school always detained for a horrible crime as wearing his thick hats backwards. you know, like will smith fresh prince of bell air? for that he would get five day of detention. and what i found in a letter and interview that when the war was raging on and he was told russian airplanes were not great construction. you know it this isn't a great construction.

it is efficient. so those planes were not great construction and not really good to protect the pilot. they were efficient in fighting the nazis. so his head was always sticking out from this cock pit so he invented a helmet and it was the soldier's hard hat and then the pilot had above it. so it protected them. my mother didn't keep the letters, but if i didn't have enough courage, was leonid a trader or not, i would never find out long after leonid was dead, his bitalion continued to wear this kind of -- battalion -- wore this helmet to the end of the car.

i discovered he wasn't a trader and all of it was political and he didn't do anything wrong but wasn't a good soviet and therefore we face that. and also one of the problems i think that was important for me is to discover none of it was about leonid. it was all about nikita khrushchev. as imperfect as he was he said i am not luck lastering the fact he was a loyal lieutenant but he deannounced stalin and allowed the country to move a bit forward as much as it could. that was a very important process because it brought us to where we are now which is nowhere.

but we tried. and khrushchev was declared a mentor and predecessor. it was an important moment in soviet history when it tried to divert from its authoritarian and open up the borders. so it is all about him because he took down that grade idea that power is always right. power could be wrong. i could be wrong he said. and that was important for the soviets to hear and the russians to here. and i think putin is saying, no, no, that is wrong. power can't be wrong. or it is that power who said it could be wrong that khrushchev in '56 denouncing stalin and in

'54 giving kiev to ukraine and look at it now. suddenly after of the things we russians know we say oh, okay. i want to conclude with a small story that i use in a book and it is sad. but an an dote which is sad but funny. when khrushchev was retired and ousted in 1964 for various reasons and reforms that were not consistent with each other but i think with the idea he tried to democratize here breakdown into smaller pieces the great communist story that joseph stalin created. and he didn't die by the way. he was ousted in '64 and his last words were to those who

kicked him out of the kremlin the greatei am the greatest thi have done but today i am ousted from voting. he came back from the decision where he was decided not to be the soviet premier anymore. dot ... ...

cried and she was very nervous and christians did not cry and he said to her that is okay. i am going to be a normal person now. what it is to be a normal person, the reason for not leaving, she doesn't know how to be a normal person after that great power. like a tub full of dough. take your hand and push it to the bottom and make a dent in it. right in front of your eyes once again.

thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ >> you are watching leonid krushchev, granddaughter of nikita khrushchev of. in the history and biography room of the fourteenth annual national book festival being held at the washington convention center. a monument, the washington

monument is visible, we are inside at the convention center. coming up next in about an hour or so, we will talk about fdr. and the most recent book on carmichael. the life of and you will be seeing, right now we are pleased to be joined by michio kaku, "the future of the mind: the scientific quest to understand, enhance, and empower the mind" is his most recent book. michio kaku, in this boat you write so we learn more about the human mind in the last 15 years than in all of history. why is that? >> advancements in physics, the thinking brain, thoughts ricochet like a ping-pong ball right inside the mind. realize we are entering the golden age of science. things that were once considered impossible, even preposterous, we can now do.

telepathy, telekinesis, recording the maris, perhaps even photographed in a gene, controlling computers with the mind, controlling robots with the mind. we have done it. we have done this, we have done all these things in the laboratory. >> how did this occur in the last 15 years? >> guest: the brain is a black box. we didn't know what was inside the brain. 49 technology local look at blood flow with an our eye scans, blood flow pushing around the brain and we can look all the old wives' tales, the theories of sigmund freud. some of his furies were correct, some was incorrect. we can use computers to deciphers the blood flow to create a picture of what you are thinking about.

this is amazing. if you think about the mona lisa, we can put your head in an mri scan, have a computer look at all the blood flow and reconstruct a picture of the month of lisa. when you fall asleep, the machine keeps plugging away and prints out your dreams. one day we will wake up in the morning and see the dream we had the previous night. >> host: m r is are relatively old technology, isn't it? >> yes but now we can have snapshots of the brain almost like a motion picture. we couldn't do that before. the first mri machines we got still pictures. interesting pictures, it is the human brain but nothing much happening. now we can see the blood show our electrical activity. realize your brain uses 20 watts of power. it would take a super computer the size of a city block to

reproduce what your brain does. the complement -- >> host: michio kaku is our guest on booktv. numbers are up on screen if you would like to dial in, 585-388 zero. if you live in the eastern time zones, 585-3991. bill and violin. if you can't get through the phone lines and ask a question or make a comment you can do so at twitter, twitter.com/booktv or make a comment on our face book page, facebook.com/booktv. his most recent book, "the future of the mind: the scientific quest to understand, enhance, and empower the mind". we think of science fiction and some of the things they do in science fiction. i they possible today? >> yes. the internet could be a brain

that for memories, sensations, feeling on the internet, not just to perfect a messages. these will go crazy. the memories on the brain that of the future. they can now do that with animals. we can record a memory. train a mouse to do a certain thing, record the impulses across the hippocampus, reinsert it back in and the mouse remembers. we have a brain peacemaker for alzheimer's patients. people with memory problems will push a brain pacemaker and remember and now the pentagon just last week announced a new initiative, brain injuries, we not only control mechanical arms and legs but also have memory enhancement for those people injured in iraq and afghanistan. >> host: what is the actual

technology that can remember a memorial recording memories? >> guest: when you remember a task your hippocampus at the center of the brain which is about that big has electrical activity that records the memory. put two electrodes at both ends of the hippocampus and record what goes back and forth. we don't know what it means. after the mouse forgets, we read insert that memory into the mouse or another mouse and being go and the mouse remembers. primates are now going to have them recorded very soon and after that a brain pacemaker for alzheimer's patients and in the future perhaps up load the memory of a vacation we never had. >> host: one of those things you write about in "the future of the mind: the scientific quest to understand, enhance, and empower the mind" is something that has become in the popular lexicon because of the big paying pherae, the de , the de,e

cat theorem. election could be spent upper spin theory, the dead cat live theorem. election could be spent upper spin down. are we really alive? you make the observation, the cat is neither dead nor all live. in this quantum zone called quantum consciousness. it takes a conscious being to determine whether you are dead or alive by looking at you. at this point if you think i am crazy by saying you can be neither dead nor live realize einstein thought this was ridiculous but einstein was wrong. we measured every day with electrons. when you do to humans you get a headache. >> host: someone -- kevin calling from michigan.

where are you calling from? go ahead with your question for michio kaku. >> caller: i was wondering if you heard any thing on fukushima, seemed they were having problems with horses dying on the california coastline recently, nobody could pinpoint what was causing the problem. >> guest: i am not sure of that. >> host: you are talking about porpoises dined on the california coast? >> caller: marine horses. >> guest: i am not familiar with that. >> host: sorry about that. michael in florida, this is booktv and you are on with michio kaku.

michael in florida. we will move on to john in illinois. where in illinois are you calling from? >> in the east. the study of remote healing. >> host: please go and with your question or comment. i think we lost him. we will try that again. 2025853890. 585391 for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. michio kaku, what does this pretend for mental illnesses, something else you write about? >> guest: when they have spent $1 billion to map the human

brain what is the pay off? the payout is to understand and cure mental illness, realize there are tens of millions of americans at any given time suffer some form of mental illness and we don't know why. schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, alzheimer's, parkinson's, children are beginning to understand schizophrenia but if you hear voices, part of your brain lights up when you generate voices. we talked to ourselves. these people are unaware of the fact the left part of the brain is generating the voices. the conscious brain but not understand what the left part of the brain is generating and that is what we call madness. we can now quantify what madness is. different parts of the brain don't talk to each other in the

brain generates imaginary voices. >> host: you talk about the fact that your mother suffered from alzheimer's. >> my mother dying of alzheimer's disease, now we have the ability to record memories and that is what the pentagon is looking at this very seriously because of a brain injured veteran, the wounded warriors in afghanistan and even set a timetable, four years. there has to be some kind of device from memory enhancement and this was once considered science fiction. only last year the first animal tests were done on mice recording memories but this could also open up a can of worms. it can implant false memories into a mouse. this was done a few months ago. if you can imagine in the future criminals may have false memories and the innocent people think they pulled the trigger or

committed a murder or actually didn't. we have to be careful monitoring of this one falls memories become available. not just the vacation you didn't have but the crime you didn't commit. >> host: how far away are we from all this? >> guest: within five years of human trials. very close. big business and the military have got wind of this. the soccer games, world cup games, the person who started the world cup first of all was paralyzed. he was a quadriplegic with mechanical arms and legs generated by impulses from the brain designed act. university and makes possible iron man. right out of obama comic book, is possible today. we can also make robots that are controlled by the human mind. just like in the movie avatar. things that once considered way into the future we already do in

the lab. >> host: let's take a call from harry in delaware. you are on with michio kaku. please go ahead. >> caller: my question is we were looking at the earth and trying to to determine if -- do we have the technology to go and we're looking at the moon or would it appear as one planet? >> host: do we have the technology -- >> caller: would we be able to determine the mass of the earth and realize there was also a moon or would it appear as one planet? >> host: could we determine the mass of the earth and the moon? >> guest: yes. isaac newton centuries ago worked out the laws of gravity to calculate the mass of the sun, the mass of stars in our

space. we can measure the mass of terrestrial bodies. because we know the rate of rotation of the earth around the sun we can use that information to calculate the mass of the earth and the mass of the sun. the dynamics of the solar system which nasa uses everyday actually was not devised by einstein but isaac newton several centuries ago. >> host: patrick in philadelphia, good afternoon. go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: i want to ask the doctor about all these breakthroughs could be weapon highest and what are the downfalls of this new technology? >> can these technologies the weapon is? >> guest: any technology can be weapon eyes. hammer for example, we can build buildings out of it but it can

be, stored or missile launcher. the cia back in the 1950s and 60s instituted m k alter. we fought the russians were using hypnosis and drugs and mind altering fame is so the u.s. military spent millions of dollars funding universities on lsd and have nazism, mind control, psychics and all kinds of talk of maybe things. fortune and nothing came out of it. not a single piece of usable information came out of this multimillion-dollar secret plan called mk all for which you can read about on the internet now. however this technology-talking about is for real. we are not talking about psychics or charlatans, we are not talking about hocus polkas. we are talking about reproducible experiments in the laboratory and yes, i think at some point we have to have an oversight to make sure people don't try to use this technology

for something like mind control. >> where are we when it comes to artificial intelligence? what does that mean and where are we in the science of it? >> guest: you think we have terminator robot around the corner, not so. we have made enormous breakthroughs in terms of connecting the mind to a computer, having completed computerized mind turned out to be much more difficult than we thought. armas said vance robots today have the intelligence of a cockroach. a retarded lobotomize cockroach. you have to realize our most did vance robots did they have the intelligence of an insect. hollywood robots there is a man inside. there is computer animation. is not a genuine robot. don't expect to have a robot maid or butler any time soon.

>> host: of retarded cockroach. >> guest: it can barely recognize where is moving, barely understand, can't hide, can't look for food. basically having trouble understanding up or down or left or right. the united states pentagon was testing robots to see if they could repair a nuclear power plant. it failed. robots were incapable of making the simplest repairs at fukushima said the military has now created a challenge to create a robot that can make simple repairs, turn screwdrivers, turn valves, that is how primitive we are to create an artificial mind. >> host: thelma from potomac,

md.. >> caller: what technology can be used in stroke victims with memory loss and physical loss? >> the question is what kind of technology will we use for people, stroke victims? my daughter is a neurologist and she handles stroke victims on a daily basis. the first thing we do when somebody comes in and seems to have the characteristics of a stroke is to the standard diagnostic test and mri scan. we can actually see the location where bleeding is taking place right inside the brain. however in terms of the queue work we are very far away from that. sorry to say at the present time is the best way to deal with a stroke victim is to immediately put the person in the hospital as soon as they show signs of a stroke, gatt and mri scan, given the proper drugs and at that point we have to cross our fingers. we do not yet have the ability

to cure these illnesses. however diseases like parkinson's, caused by brain cells, we can put electrodes directly into the brain to neutralize these overexcited neurons and the tremors stop immediately. certain forms of parkinsons' we can actually cure. as some form of a deep depression can be cured in the same way. cluster of neurons are overactive, by inserting a life roads into the brain when to neutralize those overactive neurons and the depression is lifted almost immediately. this is not for everyone but in the laboratories we demonstrated the usefulness of the >> host: "the future of the mind: the scientific quest to understand, enhance, and empower the mind" is the name of the book. the next caller is carry in california. >> caller: i was curious to hear

michio kaku's opinion on brain chemistry experiments at the university of wisconsin in evolving baby monkeys who are suffering in their mothers at birth and several months later are killed in their brain chemistry is analyzed to determine the neurochemical reaction to stress. >> guest: i am not familiar with an experiment but let me say at a number of universities they look at the relationship between stress kamel hormones and brain activity. this was not possible years ago but now with mri scans, lots of snapshots of the brain and you can see where stress is concentrated and by looking at the blood you can analyze the hormone content as well. so there are ways to look at

stress, when is mri scans and which types of the brain are excited. the cammed the above would handle fear so we know fear is concentrated in the amygdala. to identify parts of the brain associated with different kinds of the motions, then we have chemicals to analyze the 0 hormone level land look for visible signs of stress. putting these things together, we now have a pretty good idea of how stress is related especially to young children. >> host: kenny in portland, ore. you are on with michio kaku. >> caller: hello. i read a lot of rudolf steiner. don't know if you are familiar with him. i was wondering about the third

eye, the pineal gland. and so now they call it the third i and another thing is about the brain, the physical brain, what is your view on where did it come from? does the brain seek thought or decides come from the self and the brain act like a receiver? thank you. >> guest: the pineal gland which is a part of the inner part of the brain, people once thought was the seat of consciousness. there are many philosophers who wrote about the pineal gland where thinking came from. now we have mri scans, we can see the blood flow. if you are concentrating on something or fear for have the motions you can see where the blood concentrates and we realize the pineal gland is not where the action is. in some since freud was not

totally wrong. behind your forehead is your ego. your consciousness is sitting right behind your forehead and you're guilty conscience call your superego is right behind the eyeball. that is where you feel guilty and you're libya no, your pleasure center which sigmund freud wrote about is located dead center inside flight human brain. even though freud had some, the many ideas he wasn't totally wrong. there is a conscious brain and there are three categories of thought that you can localized in the brain, where the ego, the superego and the it on >> host: in "the future of the mind: the scientific quest to understand, enhance, and empower the mind" you write the left brain and the right lane sometimes don't agree or know what each other is doing. >> guest: they are connected, they can cut an epileptic to prevent seizures and when you

cut a few connections, consciousness begins to emerge and separate. in one epileptic the left brain was a believer in god and the right brain is an atheist so when he dies will he go to heaven or only half his brain go to heaven? one day we will find an epileptic his left brain is republican and right brain is democrat and when he goes into the polling booth and has to push the trigger to have his vote counted there will be a struggle between the left arm and right arm over whether he will vote republican or democrat. >> host: what is the significance of knowing the two has of the brain don't communicate? >> guest: there's a theory that bipolar disorder, many hollywood movies, great painters and musicians, as that it is an

imbalance between the left and the right. a little pessimistic, one is more optimistic and they check each other. .. >> caller: hello, my question is regarding the particles and whether not finding any spin on the particle concludes string

cleary and what your thoughts on that might be. >> guest: string theory is what i do for a living. it is a theory of everything and the theory that created the universe itself. we think particles gave birth to the modern day universe we see today. we are all children of this particle. but it predicts a new generation that are super particles and we hope to find them with the colli collider. the first great mystery of the unionverse is the creation but the second great mystery is the creation of the mind.

these are the two great front r frontiers in all of science. where did the universe come from and where did the mind come from with the two most important questions asked today. albert died without finishing his greatest theory. they realized his great theory was the theory of everything. we wanted an equation no more than one inch long that would explain the entire universe and i said that is for me. this is greater than any murderer mystery. i want to complete his dream of

everything. we have stream theory and it is the leading and only candidate for the theory that explains the universe, stars, people, and mave even love. >> host: it is provable? >> guest: we found the particles but if we find sparticals that nail it to the wall. we hope the next generation are the particles that bring about an answer. >> host: go ahead with your

question. >> caller: thank you for hearing my call. through your wonderful research what would be the practical application of your scientific research that we could use in an educational setting for children that are suffering from the adhd and dyslexia? is there any practical application we can use sooner rather than later to help these children. >> guest: you mention education. i think in the coming decades we will have a library of not just books of people that died a long time ago but a library of memories, expressions, histories, sensation of people that died. one day we will go to the library and talk to within like

winston churchhill because his experiences are there. that is down the line. so closer we have to confront the fath we don't know what autism is were example. now we are seeing how the disorder occurs in the brain. looking at blood flow of the brain of the autisics we can see why this sump haening but there is not a cure yet. we are entering the golden age of neuro science but the applications for children is not ready yet. >> host: tom in springfield, missouri. go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: i would like to ask

in 2011 i read an ibm scientist saying 2020 they would produce a computer that can mimic had functionality of the human cortex. what does that mean in a layman's understanding? thank you very much for all of your writings. >> guest: it turns out computers are getting more powerful all of the time. we have a law that says the power doubles every 18 months. the largest computers based in a laboratory in california where we design hydrogen warheads, the largest computers can mimic the brain of a mouse for a minute. mimic thinking abilities for animals for a minute or so. but it is only a matter of time

before it is as a rabbit and then a dog or cat and then perhaps after that a human. but to mimic the complete thinking process of the human mind, i think is going to be many deck apadecades ago. by 2020, i think we will be able to mimic part of the brain but the full brain is decaddecades that. don't think a robot is going do replace us any to me but by the end of the century we may have robots half as smart as us and i think we should put a chip in their brain to shut them off if they are murderous thoughts. >> host: is the fact watson won jeopardy a big deal? >> guest: there is a computer that beat two people on jeopardy

but it is an adding machine and has no consciousness. you cannot slap it on the back and say congrats, you just beat two humans because the computer doesn't know what it did. it isn't aware of itself. we don't have self aware robots like in the movie "her" many people saw. don't think you will be able to take out a computer for a date tonight. >> host: chris in silver springs, maryland. hi, chris. chris, you with us? chris is not -- >> caller: has been attributed to schizophrenia and parapsites you know that can cause

problems. >> host: chris, you will have to repeat that? chris i apologize too garbled. we will leave it there. thank you for being with us. if you are watching c-span we are covering the science pavilion here. and you will be speaking at 3:30 eastern time and you can see him there. we are live at the 14th annual national book festival and coming up in a minute we will continue our discussion of neuro science advances and limitations with dr. sally satel to talk about her book "brainwashed: the seductive appeal of mindless neuroscienc neuroscience". the national book festival is being held at the washington convention center. for the first time he with inside and not down on the mall.

it is more difficult to gauge crowd size. usually in the mall you can see how big the crowds are. all of the different rooms are full. about 110 authors are coming to this year's festival and speaking. most of the different rooms are full. fiction, contempory and life and history and biography where we are live and we will come back to this room in a bit and you will hear from richard mow talking about fdr and we will talk with former justice sanra day o'connor. and we will be doing a call-in with congressman james clyber and paneer joseph and we will

talk about civil rights issues. so that is some of the stupp coming up including a presentation by historian dorris goodwin. right now we are pleased to be joined by dr. sally satel, lecturer at yale university and pa practicing psychiatrist. whee are we goihere with this book? >> guest: the other option was "50 shades of gray matter". my co-author and i wrote this book and attempted to have a conversation that was all too

carried away often by over reading of brain scans. they are pretty much the signature of modern neuro science and they were beautiful and arresting and play into people's sense of surprise that my goodness you mean my thoughts are in my brain and my math anxiety is in the brain. depression? of course. where else would it be. we are not endorsing a dualist view. but what comes along with this notion that there are neuro corlets to our thoughts and emotions is that we cannot control them because something is in the brain and somehow that means we are not responsible for behavior that emerges. these behaviors are

involunitary. clearly there are people with brain defects and damage and they cannot control thing but the simple fact we can increase neurology in the brain is not the same thing as saying a person could not control themselves. and the implications for moral and personal responsibility in this age is interesting. we are getting better and better at generating biological explanations for behavior and more about how the mechanisms behind impulses or decisions. but we should not be seduced into this notion because we cannot control what happens because we are thinking about

ourselves mechanically. brain scans are becoming a requirement almost encapsulatint are capital. you can see this signature shows my client couldn't form content or be deterred. there are people who can not form intent and be deterred but we cannot tell who they are yet based on a brain scan. so a lot of caution is needed in reading into this. and some people made careers from misreading them. there is a company that can supposedly tell whether you are telling the truth or not. it is not yet admissible in court. a lot of cheating spouses use it. see, honey, i wasn't doing it,

this brain scan said so. to be fair and we have a chapter on lie detection. there are interesting findings in detecting neural signatures of lies versus the truth. they are done in a controlled situation that can't be generalized to people in a frenz forensic or situation where they go into the this mri and are able to present that as truth. >> host: you have a story about a retired ad executive in new york city who killed his wife, escaped down the fire escape and they found a tumor in him and you say it had nothing to do

with the murder. is that your findings? >> guest: it is the findings of the doctor that look ad at him. this is one of the first cases of neuro law trying to show through a neural defect a person isn't responsible. in this particular case executive herbert wine stein got in a fight with his wife but threw her out the window. i think he strangled here and then tossed her out the window and they caught him on the way down. the defense team said let's do a brain scan and see what comes up. and to their amazement they found he had a benign brain tumor but it was growing slowly

and taken years to develop. if you have a change that is rapid there would be clinical manifestations. you would have a horrible head ache, weakness, problems with thinking and impulse control if you had a frontal lobe problem. and he had none of that. he just had a bad temper. it was a very dramatic brain scan they showed and he did get off actually. or i should say a much reduced sentence. that is called structural imaging and they showed a tumor. most of the neural imaging in terms of trying to infer aspects of the mind from the brain is functional and measures areas

that are engaged when a person thinks about a concern thing or feels a certain way. but the brain scan was supposed to work in the extent it has great rhetorical power. the idea is that again if it is in the brain the person's less responsible. we have very interesting data and many studies that converge on the same findings and the more you describe a behavior in terms of biological and it is genes versus a bad childhood or another explanation people are nor likely to withhold punishment if the were a crime. if is explained in a biological way they are less likely to

blame and less intense punishment. the flip side is they are more pessimistic about the person's capacity to respond to treatment and they think the person is more dangerous and want to keep more social distance. none of that is an argument for using one explanation over another. we want to be as realistic as possible. >> host: dr. sally satel is our guest co-author of "brainwashed: the seductive appeal of mindless neuroscience." let's take some calls. elaine in michigan. go ahead. >> caller: i have read about differences in males and females

brain. the book about educating boys and girls, could you expand on the differences between male brains and female brains. thank you. >> guest: well, actually -- it isn't very helpful to talk about the male brain and female brain although i understand that is how it is referred to. i think a little to much is made of that. -- too -- i do believe there are some differences that are innate. i certainly believe that. it manifest in the brain in certain ways. but in terms of teaching children these kind of differences are quite subtle and don't figure in at all. there are not even -- we have heard a lot about learning st e

styles and even that is overblown. there is visual and odd tory and people that manipulate things. that is exaggerated. children learn by understanding the meaning and that is what educators need to focus on. some people may have different skills. some more musical and some more visual but the learning techniques do not vary. >> host: adrian is calling in from new mexico. you are on with dr. sally satel. >> caller:

[inaudible question] hearing aids are not solving the problem. it seems to be more of brain issue. >> host: we will see if you can get an answer. she was talking about ringing in the ears and if -- i am not exactly sure. >> guest: i am not an expert in hearing disorders. so i will pass on that. >> host: as a practicing doctor do you use mri's? do you use those in your practice? >> guest: that is a great point. no. in fact these functional magnetic images or pet scans are mainly research tools. there is some evidence now that certainly neural signatures can

say which depressed people might respond better to anti-depressants versus cognitive therapy but that is not used routinely. surgeons might use mri's to help them avoid speech areas in the brain. but the scans are limited to the research realm mainly. the book is written to show how they are migrating out into the public spheres in the forensic setting and they are not ready to do that. in fact in my practice i work mainly with drug addicts and that experience illustrates a very important concept in the book which is what we call neuro centralism and that is the notion the brain is the most

truthful and authentic objective way of understanding behavior. if we are talking about alzheimer's disease it sure is. but drug addiction is problematic to focus on one level of analysis, in this case neural, because in treating addiction joyou have to take th whole person into account. we can certainly talk about the biological underpinnings of addiction and i think one day it will help us formulate better treatments for other conditions even like depression and memories involved in addiction. but when you work with an addict, youfr you have to keep in mind there are reasons why people use, continue and stop. and you have to be aware of

this. you cannot think solely about what is going on in their brain. and you would not think about how volunitary addiction is. and what i mean by that is it is a behavior that can be influenced by its consequences. so compare it to alzheimer's disease. that is a brain condition no question. that is a condition that cannot be detered by consequences. but we have so many examples of so much research and so many clinical examples of people who are able to modify their addiction when they are in situations where something big

is at stake. one of my favorite examples was called operation golden flow and golden referring to urine and drug test. this started by president nixon who was concerned about gi's coming back from vietnam addicted because 15-20 percent were addicted and coming back and further inflaming the already in progress heroin epidemic. and they said you are not leaving vietnam until you give us a urine sample. all of the guys cleaned up and those who didn't were clean in a week. and three years later, there was a long study of all of these

guys, three years later 10% had reestablished in addiction. the point is when the context changes, when the point of the addiction changes -- why use drugs in a military setting? boredom is most of it and then it is treating post-traumatic stress disorder. but when you are in a different environment with different queues and availability and needs and take the environmental level and social you cannot just focus on the brain. >> host: next call is from cory from georgia. >> caller: i am pessimistic about the future of neuro science when it comes to the fact we may be able to record

the brain and the brain activities in real-time. and if we actually do connect brains and brain networks as the previous guest was talking about we have a real security problem and we cannot even control our computer networks right now. we have hacking that is an endemic and if you can imagine you are willing to have your brain connected into network setting like that and exposed i cannot imagine being able to secure that and you know this seems like it opens up a lot of scary scary things down the road. >> guest: there is a whole field of ethics that is concerned about that. and you bring up an interesting point. but that is in the realm of almost science fiction.

and i did hear part of where he said the golden age of neuro science is in the lab. we cannot infer right now subtle emotions and coast guard -- cognitions by looking at pet scans or mri's. we are so far from that. you heard of president obama's brain initiative? they are problem working on earth worms to try to map their brains. so if this is a one-mile journey honestly scientist know that and they are modest about it. and there maybe an inch of the way in. there is no such to know so one can really let the imagination get very florid. but i would not worry now.

>> host: carla you are on live. >> caller: my youngest son has autism and i am curious if the medical community has any strides in finding a cure and if they are united it is something genetic or due to nature or mercury in the air? mercury in the food we eat? is it from that? or what are you feelings on how it affects an autistic wild. >> guest: as you know there is no magic bullet and there is not complete agreement but certainly the vaccine theory has been

debunked and i am sure you are particular with paul who is at the university of pennsylvania and if you don't know his work look at it. so i would rule out the vaccines but many of these conditions schizophrenia and serious brain issues are part genetic and they do have often an environment dementia that maybe an environment in this case even in the womb and other kinds of situational context. it certainly isn't parenting as you know. but there is not a straight line or a single gene and people are working hard on it but unfortunately no good answers right now i don't think. >> host: what scares you the most about how we are using the study of the brain in society today? >> guest: what makes me the most

nervous is the fact the last chapter is called the future of blame. and that is based on our article that james wilson wrote. by the time we dedicated the book to him. it has to do with the notion i alluded to before but notions of moral agency and accountability. there are people and this comes up mainly in the forensic setting i suppose but there is no question that there are people with damaged brains. clearly, i am not arguing that but what i am arguing is that at this point our technology is such that we cannot use it to tell the difference from people who are experiencing an irresistable impulse from people who are not resisting it and that is a key difference. and we cannot look to the brain to do that. but because again there is such

a tendency to read -- i think there is a basic human intuition that if we are confronted with the mechanics of something we jump to the conclusion that the behavior that slowed from that could not be controlled that we may pass up on for example therapy in the case of addiction that is going to be more helpful and may not hold people accountable and we are not thinking about science clearly. there are some neuro scientist that argue the more we understand the brin the more we understand there is no such thing as free will. and free will ends in tears. that is a very hard topic. but it is fundamentally what is the free will question?

can there be moral accountable in a world where our behavior is caused. of course it is caused. there are genetic components and experiences leave you to act a concern way your values lead you to a certain way. is it true those forces led to a point where you could not have decided otherwise? that is circular. and a lot of scientist and i endorse the determined youth and there are causes clearly we are not operating in a vacuum. our behavior is caused by lots of influences and some of them are unconscious even. so can that state of affairs exist with personal accountable. this is a philosophical questions that is centuries old, right? if you believe that you cannot have free will because our

behavior is caused then you don't believe it. if you believe as i do as long as a person's brain is in tact enough so they can plan, deliberate and change their mind and respond to reasons than that is freedom enough to be morally accountable. and whether you agree with me and that is a compatible view or there is the view that says no one deserves punishment or praise we are are clock work creatures who are just like forks in a sea of causes and that is a hard determist view. that is a philosophical question that can not be resolved through

brain science. brain science shows us how the brain works during the decision making process and how are emotions mediated in the brain and where else would they be be mediated. the brain is about mechanisms and our mind is about the meaning we make and the meaning we make has to do with our thoughts and emotions and back to rather we can plan and deliberate and control ourselves. if we can for most people that is enough reason to continue to have a criminal justice system, the one we have, that does endorse retrobution where as the criminal justice system that a hard determine would like to see

with no punishment but rehabilitation and containment and deterants. i endorse those features as well. but a world without blame in a hard one to think about. if we think it is legit thing that is one thing. but neuro science isn't getting us there. >> caller: i struggle with a 16-year-old family member who serves from asperger's disease so he is 16 years old but act like an eight year. he has been violent for the last

eight years. his mother doesn't punish him even though the violence is directed toward her. as a by-stander i feel helpless because i don't feel i can do much. she is of the view he is not responsible for his behavior to the same degree i would if i were in the same situations. can you make recommendations for how to handle -- >> host: carol, i think we goat get the point. let's get the answer in dr. sally satel. >> guest: i hope she is seeing an a an expert. i can see how you can hold accountable a young man like that is not the same way you would approach the child out the disorder. that is true. but i have no reason to think some sort of consequences would

be relevant. ideally you would try to focus on the rewards as opposed to punishment. so to reward them out of negative behavior versus punish him for committing it. i am sure there are behavior strategy that could help your sister use in terms of modifying his behavior. >> host: "brainwashed: the seductive appeal of mindless neuroscience" is the name of the book. dr. sally satel. electrlecture at yale. thank you for being on the program. this is the live coverage of the 14th national book convention. several more hours of call-ins and events. and after that we will have a civil rights call-in round

table. we will have the carwhisle groups who is one of the sponsors of the national book festival and then mor call-ins. richard mow is going to be talking and his book is about the election of 1940 and the politics of war. the room is full. the book is called "roosevelt"

"brainwashed: the seductive appeal of mindless neuroscience

>> good afternoon and on behalf of the library of congress welcome to the 2014 national book festival. you have probably heard that 20 times. i am the managing editor of the "washington post" and we are proud to be a charter member of the festival. we hope you are having a wonderful day celebrating the joy of reading. before we begin, i am going to just read this disclaimer. the pavilion's presentations are being film for the library of congress' website and archives. please be mindful of this. be don't sit on the camera ricer in the back of the pavilion. thank you. we are in for a treat right now.

we are here to hear richard moe and i know his friends call him dick discuss this book " roosevelt's second act: the election of 1940 and the politics of war". as the preface of the book notes, with the exception of lincoln no president has been more scrutinized than roosevelt. richard himself wrestles with the question right at the very beginning after thousands of roast roosevelt books why do we need another one? and the answer is most of what has been written is focused on the new deal during the first term or the leadership during the war. this focuses on fdr's decision to defy rules and run for a third term. moe connects that decision to the outbreak of war in europe

and his desire to protect democracies from hitler's rampage. the book opens with a beautiful sentence which is franklin roosevelt was an unusual sound sleeper. he then goes on to describe roosevelt being awaken by the u.s. ambassador of france who told them troops advanced to the border of poland and were a advancing. moe is someone that many have gotten to know. as my colleagues writes, whom i regard as a preeminent political

writer in the country, said dick understands presidential decision making and applies his talents to probe the roosevelt presidency in fresh ways. richard was president of the natural trust of presservation. his books are the life and death of the first minnesota volunteers and changing places and rebuilding community in the age of sprawl. please give a warm national book festival welcome to richard moe. [applause] >> thank you, kevin, very much for that kind introduction. it is an honor to be here and

introduced by kevin who i have admired for a very long time. let me tell you how happy i am here tebow -- to be here. i am a huge fan of the library of congress as i know many of you are. i cannot tell you how much i ad mire and appreciate the job jim and his staff have done in putting the staff another. feel free to break in with applause any time during the address. and david rubenstein helped a lot. let's give david a hand, too. i have a confession to make. i am not a professional historian. i didn't even study history in college. that is how bad it was. so you are getting everything you paid for here today. but i quickly learned the error

of my way and became a reader of history and a student of history every since. and i fell in love with history. and in particular i stumbled across what i think is one of the most important periods in american history and one that has been largely ignored by historians. and that is franklin roosevelt's decision to seek an unprecedented third term in 1940. i have always been fascinated by fdr largely because two mentors of mine had been influenced by fdr greatly. and the democratic farm party was steeped in the legacy of fdr. i became especially interested

because of my service in the whitehouse and presidential leadership and presidential decision making and i feel f fortunate i came across this to write about. i didn't know much about fdr when i started the effort. but i came across someone who did know him very well and that was francis perkins. she was the first woman to be a member of cabinet and was fdr's secretary of labor and knew him in 1910 when he showed up as a young and somewhat arrogant legislator. here is what she had to say: franklin roosevelt wasn't a simple man. that quality of simplicity that we delight to think marks the great and noble wasn't his. he was the most complicated human being i ever knew and out

of this nature sprang much of the drive that brought achievement. it made it possible for him to have insight and imagination into the more varied situations thrusted upon him. as kevin said in the introduction there has been thousands of books written about fdr. probably second to lincoln. why do we need another book? it is as a fair question. most of the books are written about the new deal years or his leadership during world war ii. there has been nothing written almost about the connective tissue between those two epical achievements and that connective tissue was the election of 1940

where fdr wrestled with whether or not to challenge history and precedent and run for a third term. during this period of 1939-1940 he tried to prepare the country for the war he knew was coming to the united states and tried to ensure the successor in the whitehouse was a democrat who supported his foreign and local policies that could be elected in 1940. you will have excuse me because i have a bit of a cough. i tried to get into his head which wasn't an easy thing but it was particular difficult at this period. he of course wrote no memoir and didn't have many intimates so it

was hard to get in his head. he carried all but two states in 1936 with an incredible victory. he misread his mandate hoe -- though and over extended himself. he experienced what we have come to know as the second term course. in fact, i believe he invented the second term curse. he set-up an ill considered packing plan to congress and it was rejected. he took his foot off the accelerator and cut back on spending and two million more people joined the employment roles. we had the recession of

1937-1938 and in 1938 in the off year elections he tried to punish or purge those democrats who had opposed parts of his new deal program. and he totally failed. so he had gone in two years from the high point of his presidency in terms of public opinion to the lowest point in 1939. the new deal ran its course and there was no appetite for more of it. f fdr was shifting to attention from domestic to foreign affairs and particular the war breaking out in europe. he had planned to retire to hyde park after the two terms. the constitution was silent on whether or not a prent