we are probably best to leave that subject. i may have -- before we join him on most of the audience is in a good mood, we appreciate your taking time out to come to birmingham, alabama. many of us did not have it be conceived notion of view or the book or writing about nell harper lee. you did it in a marvelous manner and in a respect for manner. i feel much better having read it and thank you for your gift to the literary world. thanks to 15 and before we thank all of you for coming, somebody is really going to be happy. but for she draws the name and before everybody's mad at her she didn't draw it yours, let's

tell this young lady how much we officiate her. >> thank you. [applause] >> thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you. if a georgetown person wins the drawing, it is going to be mighty suspect. >> i want you to know how to take his seat because these are strictly by the numbers. >> i will not load and i will pull from the middle. >> pull from the middle, okay. first, read the row. >> all right. we will do this for some drama appropriate to a theater. >> the row that has been written or. >> the row would be jay. and seat number --

>> are you ready? all right. we owe jay, c. 26. [applause] >> this is for you, rather jay, seat 46. [applause] >> your name as pay him -- thanks. enjoy your book. [applause] in the booth, as soon as we -- can you kill these flights. thank you for coming. we appreciate.

we are according to get her back for the second book. >> thank you so much, everybody. it has been a pleasure. [inaudible conversations] ..

>> that all happened tonight on c-span2's booktv. >> up next on booktv, "after words" with guest host chuck todd of nbc news. this week dr. ben carson and his latest book "one nation: what we can all do to save america's future." in it for prominent former neurosurgeon and presidential critic proposes a road out what he calls the u.s. decline. he contends these solutions appeal to every american's decency and common sense. this program is about an hour. >> host: dr. carson, welcome. i think the best way to store before you delve into your book is to delve into you. so tell me, you have a very

inspirational, i grew up there tell me where you grew up. >> guest: i grew up in detroit. a couple years in boston also. you know, my mother came from a large rural family, got married when she was 13, rural tennessee. she and my father moved to detroit. he was a factory worker. some years later she discovered he was a bigamist. she had the response that at the point with only a third grade education of trying to raise us on their own how. >> host: how many of you were there? >> guest: myself on my brother. we were particularly good students. that's putting it mildly. i was the dummy, that's what everybody called the. >> host: a neurosurgeon now and you're a dummy. how do you go from the dummy to neurosurgery transit and one used to tease me and call me names. my mother, and i think any success i've had, you know i can contribute to god and my mother.

she's always seeking wisdom and came up with the idea of open your eyes and looking around you, and she noticed that the homes that she cleaned, people did watch a lot of tv -- no offense. and they read a lot of books. she looked at where we lived. she looked away they lived comments about the click in her mind, if i can get my voice to stop looking at tv all day long and start reading. she imposed that on the. >> host: did you have a favorite tv show? >> guest: i love anything. >> host: whatever was going? >> guest: you did need to tv guide around. i could say what was on every station. she basically restricted as to to or three tv programs per week. and with all the spare time she said went to read two books of peace from the detroit public library and submit a written report. she couldn't read but we did know that. >> host: when did you find out she couldn't read traffic later

on in high school. she got her ged the same year i graduated from high school. >> host: no kidding? >> guest: yeah. but anyway, by making us read, which i hated, something happened. i used to admire the smart kids in the classroom. i was always saying how come they know all these answers? they are the same age i am. but as a starter reading all this and the teacher would ask the question and i knew the answer. it got me excited and i got to the point where if i had five minutes i was reading a book. i went from being the dummy to the top of the class in the year and a half. >> host: give me the first book that you read. >> guest: chip the dam builder. >> host: my dad made me read "profiles in courage." what was it for you? >> guest: chip the dam builder. it was about a beaver. it was a cool beer, i've got to tell you. -- cool beaver.

i read every animal book in the detroit libra and the nested reading about plans and rocks rs because we look at the railroad tracks and they're all these rocks. i could get boxes of rocks. soon i could invite any rock. >> host: suddenly you're a scientist and you didn't realize it. now starting to make the connection. that may be sparked your interest transferred one day a science teacher held up a big black shiny rock and to does anyone know what this is? i didn't raise my hand because i never raised my hand. nobody gets i raised my hand. everybody turned around but couldn't leave, they said this will be how larry is. >> host: we known as a jokester? >> guest: they knew i couldn't possible know the answer so the new would be dumb. i said it's subsidy and. they did know whether they should be laughing or be impressed by the teacher said that's right. then explained how oxygen was formed and they were shocked but i was more shocking anybody because it dawned on me at that

moment that i wasn't stupid. the teacher invited me to come -- >> host: what grade is this? >> guest: fifth grade. the teacher invited me to come to the lab, got me involved in taking care of little animals. i started looking through the microscope discovering the whole world of protozoa. >> host: do remember the teacher's name transferred mr. jacob. >> host: how long ago? >> guest: that was more than 50 years ago. interesting thing is i went back to that school and this was several years ago with good morning america, and they wanted to sort trace my roots. mr. jacob was still there. balding and potbelly. >> host: are we all at some point? >> guest: i want him to show them the animals because he had a red squirrel, tarantula, jack dempsey fish, all these things.

he said oh, we had to get rid of those things a long time ago. >> host: did you have a relationship with your father? >> guest: not a strong relationship. we would see them periodically. the last time muslim was the day i got married 39 years ago. >> host: did the second, he had, did you have a relationship with those half-brothers come half-sisters? >> guest: no. >> host: did you ever forgive in? >> guest: absolutely. i kind of look at the big picture. my mother tried to make up for all that. and my father, you know, he was involved with drugs, alcohol, women. nothing wrong with women but you can't have more than one, okay? that's the problem. that probably would not have been the best influence on me. in retrospect even though i was devastated as a kid, i was praying let him come back, now i realize that perhaps it would not have been the best thing for me. >> host: detroit today, what would you be doing?

>> guest: first of all, the same thing i would be doing almost any place, bring back some fiscal responsibility, fiscal common sense. a lot of people blame the unions for what happened to detroit. but i actually don't -- you need to do what you need to the a golden egg, give me the egg. that's all they want a. >> host: they represent their members and their members want a better deal. >> guest: right but executives in the big three auto companies, they have a one year, five year, tenure, 15 your plan. they understand all this and a new if they kept competing with the and eventually there would be a problem. they kept doing it anyway because they knew they would have their golden parachute and they would be long gone. >> host: you blame as much of executives as you do -- >> guest: the same thing i see around the country. let it be somebody else's problem. >> host: you know, you have

gotten this spark of enthusiasm among conservatives. conservatives. have even surprised it is come from conservatives? did you assume you were a conservative when you did this? i get the impression you want always a conservative. >> guest: no. well obviously, like most young people, growing up in a place like detroit, when i went off to college i was a radical. >> host: would you go to school? >> guest: yale. >> host: what is a radical at yale? if you told me radical at berkeley i would know. >> guest: they were radicals. there was a black panther rally, you know, kingman brewster was evil and all this kind of stuff. but it was just though it was at that time during our history. radicalism was very much accepted among young people at

that point. i consider myself really more of a logical person than i am a conservative or liberal or anything. i'm not all that fond of labels. but i say most of our problems are easily solvable if we could just throw away the labels. i indicated in the book i would love a situation where party designation was not on the ballot. where you had actually know who that person was. >> host: in a lot of cities, mayors races, that's the case. it's not surprising to me guess who's getting stuff done these days? mayors. they don't have the baggage that comes with a political party right now. it's an interesting -- so eager to yale, and when you decide i'm going to be a doctor? >> guest: i actually decided that when i was eight years old. i used to love mission stories in church. it seem like the most noble people on the face of the earth.

great personal sacrifice, bringing mental, physical and spiritual healing to people. i said that's what i'm going to do. but when i turned 13 having grown up in dire poverty i decided i would rather be rich. so that point i wanted to be a psychiatrist. >> host: decided a psychiatrist was a better way to make money than -- >> guest: on television, dr. lawrence, plush offices. >> host: who was a psychiatrist that you are referring to? >> guest: most of the tv programs where you it's a psychiatrist -- >> host: they were doing it. >> guest: i started reading psychology today. everybody would bring me the problems. i would sit down and -- >> host: give me a nickel, tin since. >> guest: and i majored in psychology in college. i had blueberry professors like -- it was really pretty exciting. but when i got to medical school i said, you know, everybody is special gifts and talents, and what are yours? i started to make about my life

and realize i had a tremendous amount of eye hand coordination. >> host: for a surgeon, that is key. gasping and the ability to think in three dimensions which is essential for neurosurgeon because you do with a nebulous mass. and you have to be able to keep in mind when all the tracks are even there you can't see them. if you don't have good three-dimensional skills you are -- >> host: how'd you know you had that skill? >> guest: from some of the jobs that i done annually performed extremely well like working in a steel factory. >> host: what did you do in the steel factory treachery crane operator. right after i finish college. >> host: interesting. >> guest: you are driving these enormous beams of steel through narrow areas and dropping them in the bed of the truck. and that they would let me do that after one day of practice -- >> host: a little scary.

>> guest: i said, these guys see something in the that they don't see very often. >> host: the next guy up. >> guest: no, no. that was a summer job and a lot of the guys who worked there probably didn't get to do that. but, you know, as i thought about it i said you'd be a tremendous neurosurgeon to a lot of people thought that was strange because at the time there have been eight black and nurses in the history of the world. but to me i didn't think about that. i said this is what my talents are. this is where i'm going to go. >> host: i hear in surgery that basically in some ways the rotations, the one rotation where people can identify the best surgeons are sometimes the plastic surgeon rotation in some way because you've got to be artistic and precise at the same time. it's more of, now we lampoon it in some ways. but there is some truth to that. >> guest: a lot of my career was developed around

craniofacial surgery with the plastic surgeons which is why i have an apartment in plastic surgery. >> host: you are not practicing right now. do you miss the? >> guest: i miss the way it used to be. there were a lot of things in the process of changing. most people when they chose medicine, they chose it because you had a great deal of autonomy. you could sort of figure out, wow, i'm going to solve this problem. and in the days come in the early days they would be like a kid from believe you are someplace that had this incredible problem, and didn't have resources. i would just say, overriding and take your. >> host: you figured out because you want to solve the problem of. >> guest: and nobody said boo because the hospitals had a big enough war chest that it was okay. once the insurance companies got to the point where they could dictate how much they're going to pay and hospitals no longer had a margin, and then you want

to do what? for free? are you kidding me? it's a changing so much and so much bureaucracy and stuff. so one of my goals in life is to try to make medicine fun again. i want doctors to get it -- get up in morning and be excited about going to work. >> host: should doctors be getting rich? >> guest: i think doctors should be well compensated. rich is a very different thing. i know a lot of rich people. doctors that are rich. >> host: who should be paid more in our society, teachers or doctors? >> guest: i would say it's an irrelevant question. i think, you know, ma people should be paid for what they do. recognize that doctors spent a very long time and training to be doctors.

they go to college, they go to medical school for four years, internship, residency. >> host: so you argued we say it's 12 years of simply postgraduate work to be a practicing neurosurgeon. >> guest: it takes a long time. there's a lot of sacrifice involved. and even when she do start working, you're working extraordinary hours and then you've got the port issue. with neurosurgeon's it's particularly bad because everybody thinks everything is supposed be perfect and they're getting with very high risk real estate. that was one of the reasons that had a real problem with so-called health reform that doesn't include tort reform. they can even be serious. >> host: rhetorically the present would talk about when push came to shove. let me ask you, your christianity is throughout the book. science and faith sometimes

collide. you are this highly scientific mind, and you're a very deeply religious person to some people would say hey, that doesn't compute. that doesn't always compute. how does it can be with you treachery first of all i was i'm not deeply religious but i have a personal relationship with god. there is a difference. >> host: let me posture there. what would be the difference? >> guest: the difference is that religion tends to be more form, and faith tends to be more substance. in the name of religion a lot of really silly stuff has been carried out. >> host: the middle east right now. at any point in time. >> guest: exactly. however, people who have a dip relationship with god i think of a tennessee -- deeper relationship -- see religion into the way. i actually believe that science and faith can be really quite

compatible. i've had some interesting discussions with nobel laureates who say, you know, how can a person of your intelligence believe that, you know, not created heaven, earth and all this stuff? i say, well, how can a person of your intelligence believe that something came from nothing. explain to me exactly how it works. well, we don't understand everything. okay, so i'll give you that there's something. just, there's something. and now you're going to tell me it explodes, and we have a perfectly organized solar system to the point where we can predict 70 years when a comment is coming. the earth rotates on its axis going around -- i mean, so that just happened, right? and they say, well, you know, if you have enough explosion over a long enough period of time, then eventually one of them will be the perfect explosions and that's what will happen.

and i said, so if i blow a hurricane for junkyard over billions of years, billions of times, eventually after one of them it would be a pretty formed 747 ready to fly, right? well, that's what you're saying. and i say you're welcome to the plea. i have no problem. i'm not going to denigrate you because of that. it's just that requires a lot more faith than it does for me to believe. >> host: if someone asked you are you a creationist, the believe in evolution, you would answer -- >> guest: i believe that god created heaven and earth. i find that much easier to believe. because you to recognize that you take somebody like charles darwin who, as you probably know, started out in a seminary. but he got to the point where, you know, he goes off to the galapagos islands. he start seeing stuff. he's never seen finches like that anyplace else. he said, that's evidence of evolution.

well, it depends on a look at it. two years before, which he did know at the time, there had been a severe drought. billy finches who survived were the geeks have enough to break through the seedlings to extract -- what actually is happening is that you have a creator who is given his creatures the building to adapt to the environment so you have to start over. >> host: it sounds like you believe in natural selection. you believe in sort of some parts of darwinism not the whole thing. >> guest: i may not call of darwinism but i believe in a caption. creatures with the ability to adapt to environment. if i would agree to i would certainly get my creatures that ability. >> host: is at 6000 over billions treachery the earth? i don't know the answer to that. the bible says in the beginning god created heaven and earth.

period. >> host: i've had some people say one day could have been a billion years. >> guest: but we don't know. >> host: people have created -- defend creationism sank 6000 years -- >> guest: i would say there's nothing that tells us how old the earth is in the bible. it could be billions of years old. but also i believe the reason that god is god is because he can do stuff we can't do. so if you wanted to create something that already had age in it, he could do that. absolutely. that's why he would be god. >> host: and so your scientific education, you feel like does not conflict with your faith, your billy? >> guest: i've never had an instance where my belief in god has conflicted might ability -- might ability to be a good neurosurgeon. >> host: alec baldwin every character he played with an absence of malice and he was a surgeon with a god complex. that is is supposedly stereotype

of surgeons. is that just an unfair hollywood view of most surgeons? >> guest: well, there's no question that there are some surgeons are fairly large egos. and, in fact, it's especially gushing even get people -- >> host: you can be confident. >> guest: those are not going to become surgeons, okay? so does select for the kind of people but i know a lot of incredibly nice surgeons, incredibly caring, decent people. >> host: i guess i get why they might have a god complex because the they're the only ono can solve a problem in their head, right? and that's where this comes from a little bit. >> guest: and it's unfortunate, but -- >> host: how did you prevent it. it's easy. you at johns hopkins. you are the elite of the elite. how did you keep your head from

getting a god complex? >> guest: because i personally remember, and still remember, where i came from. and i also recognize that a lot of things depend on a lot of other situations. there were a lot of important people involved in virtually everything that i've done. i make that clear to people. i tell the residents, everybody else, there are always other people involved. my mother, e.g. hadn't given me, you know, what i needed, i probably would've ended up working in a factory or sweeping the floor. not that there's anything wrong with that, we need those people but i would not have realized my potential. with some of the very complex operations, you know, you think about the first set of conjoined twins that were joined at the back of the head, that kind of thing had never been done with them surviving before. but i had to consult with a

cardiothoracic surgeons who were extremely good and understood the whole concept of hypothermic arrest and had we work that together and work with the plastic surgeons? how we ever going to get this covered after we get, you know, a lot of people besides myself are involved in those kinds of things. >> host: i want to get to the heart and deep parts of this book but warmer question on science. what is your scientific background to you about climate change? >> guest: it tells me that if you look at the earth at any given point in time, temperatures are either going up or they are going down. over a specific period of time. as you may remember, you might be too young, in the '70s one of -- it was time for "newsweek," i don't remember which one had this big glacier on the front, a new ice age is coming. now is global warming. it depends what kerry did you look at. is what i say about it.

whether we're getting colder or warmer, we have a responsibility to take care of our environment. that's the bottom line. we don't have to sit here and argue that whether we're getting hotter or colder. we need to argue about how do we intelligently take care of -- >> host: effective something changed we know that. you look at new york city, new jersey, bigger seawalls. you had to make public policy decisions based on what you think is coming. that's the importance of figuring this out, is it not treachery right but it's also important not to get overly involved in paranoia about it. you know, our epa as far as i'm concerned should be working in conjunction with our research facilities and with industry to say, how can we best utilize our natural resources and at the same time respect our environment?

rather than saying, no, we're not developing this, when not developing this because, i don't think that's a wise use of our intellect and our resources. >> host: i guess i look at, remember the great concern about the hole in the ozone layer, a lot of focus on what we thought it was an but basically, the entire aerosol industry changed and the whole close. so this is a case where a problem was identified, a solution was identified, industry thought it hard and lo and behold we've moved on. industry adapt. >> guest: but i'm not saying we shouldn't do that. >> host: so you do believe we should at least pursue some of these scientific researchers? >> guest: absolutely. but i think we need to take a balanced approach. and as you saw from reading the book, i say that in just about everything. remember when i said at the national prayer breakfast in order for a nickel to fly high and straight, it needs to wings,

a left wing and a right wing. if you do everything in a lopsided way, my way or the highway, you're going to crash. >> host: let me start chapter three because i think it's interesting. you on this highly intellectual person. you would to the best schools, you have taught that the best schools. and yet you're concerned about elitism. >> guest: well, the reason i'm concerned about elitism is because you are a class of people, for instance, you see it in a lot of our universities right now, you believe that they are sort of the beacon of light for everything. and anybody who doesn't i grieve with them, not only do they not want to do them, they don't want anyone to them. they don't want anybody to them. if they have a business, it want to shut it down. if have a reputation they want to destroy. where does that come from unless you just believe that you are the cats meow? >> host: you feel like academic elitism is among --

when did you first say i'm into politics? i'm following this? when did you make that transition from scientists, you know, and highly acclaimed surgeon, johns hopkins saying you know what? i want to get into the political fray. what was the trigger transfer i don't know that there was a dramatic moment. if you look through books i've written over the last 20 to 30 years, you will see that i've been talking about these issues were decades. if you go back to book i wrote in 1999, as a whole health reform program laid out there. i'm not johnny-come-lately to these issues but the thing that really changed me and the perception of people was the national prayer breakfast in 2013. because i just spoke my mind. i spoke about what i really --

why i was concerned about it. because i very much love the nation we live in. i don't want to sit fundamentally changed. >> host: you have an interesting challenge in chapter six of your book which you say to somebody which is this concert of the concern that i have in what and how people consume too much of only one side. they only follow, if they're conservative they follow conservatives on twitter. watch one channel here on one channel there. is a potential a different, member of a different political party and make a rational defense of one of the issues. so i'm going to make a rational defense of which on the spot to the presence health care plan. >> guest: okay. that's easy to do. everybody should have health insurance. and we need to find a way to make that possible. and since we know a lot and we

have a lot of really bright people, we can probably figure out better than the private sector and resort in no better than the people themselves who are actually very benign and. >> host: let me stop you there. you are saying we know better. let me push you more. what parts of the president's plan do you think were good parts? is there any part of the presence health care plan you we keep? >> guest: certainly lifetime limits. >> host: someone who deals in very expensive surgeries you sort of understand, a young family having a pediatric neurosurgery for their child, that's a bankrupt will deal. >> guest: sure. pre-existing diseases. excluding people on the basis of that. those are horrible things. i talked to a high administration official before the thing was passed. i said there's some good stuff in there. i said i agree with it. i agree virtually everybody, why

not take those things and make them the foundation of health care reform? it would be a bipartisan effort and then let's build it together. because health care is something we all need. why can't we work on this together? if you push it through on one party and hav you have unanimous disagreement, all you going to do is create rancor and you're not going to have cooperation for anything. why would you do that? and he said, you are probably right, but this is washington and this is politics. that's the very problem. when we take these important issues and would make them into politics and which is key polarizing. and a wise man once said a house divided against itself cannot stand. >> host: not just any wise men. arguably the wise men of this country. >> guest: 's wide web to keep doing this? widely called that book "one nation"? because i think our strength is

in the unity. not in our decisions. we the american people are not -- it excels at you would have e health insurance reform and would not come he would've made the first goal, what you like other reforms in the interest interest. it was the next of the figure how to expand and please give universal access is where the collision happened. >> guest: and we can get universal access because we spend twice as much per capita as the next closest nation but it's not that we have not put adequate resources. so to think we need to be pouring more money into a, that's foolishness. what we need to think about is how do we decide it in a reasonable way. and that's why i've emphasized the health savings accounts because people have control of what they're going to spend their money on. >> host: you in fact have an idea in your you would say from birth to death you would get a health care savings account.

walk me through that. how is it funded? >> guest: through a variety of different ways. people who work can be funded through their employers. people who are indigent, the same money that we spend far -- >> host: medicaid? >> guest: that would go into this health savings account. you don't lose it if you don't use it. there are no limits on it. if you're having a birthday party, you could say please contribute to my hma. it contributes such a lifetime. >> host: european countries basically at the beginning of birth and your money. some of it is for childcare, sounds like -- would you put some government money in this hsa at the beginning? >> guest: people who need government money -- >> host: you with automatic restart up maybe $5000 country people who need money put in your but even it would take all the people who are needy in this

country and we put, you know, money into their hsa, they will fall far short of what we're spending now with inefficient programs. so here's the key thing. people began to be responsible. you need to have something done, you are going -- remember when the food stamps program first started. a lot of people said you can't do that because people will be irresponsible. there's no with their going to use the appropriate. they will go out i don't like poorhouses take the first five days and they will start the rest of the month. >> host: that's why they had to put limits on it. >> guest: no, you didn't have to put limits on. people aren't themselves. i'm going to buy some hamburger and hamburger helper. they would learn to stretch it out and make it work. they will do the same thing if they have control of their health savings accounts. that would bring the whole medical system into the free market economic forum which would control price and quality.

>> host: it sounds like you'd make an argument of hospitals are as much of him as anybody because a hospital will charge some ridiculous amount. my father died of a very long disease. my mother would go through the bill line by line and she would find double things and should send to the insurance company to let them know. but they were charging crazy amounts of money that is unfathomable. >> guest: it's because the costs they know of is maybe only $2000 but if they put the cost down, the insurance company will pay them $300. therefore, if we put $20,000 down, then maybe they will pay us 3000. is all games. >> host: this is a total gain. >> guest: it's ridiculous. >> host: this is a case where it sounds, the administration and hospitals, that was a tough one to crack. they ended up working with the insurance companies, not with the hospital's. >> guest: but remember, if

you're in charge to your hsa, unit going to go to the hospital that does that. you go to the other one which is going to make this would start acting like this one. that's the way the free market works. >> host: you think the only way to truly reform health care system is basically get out of the insurance industry transfer you can have all these artificial influences. >> host: you are advocating for no insurance or no health insurance -- >> guest: no. what i'm saying is for all of your routine health care, 80% of everything that you're going to to deal with can easily be paid through your hsa. but you've got remember, people do have major and catastrophic issues that come up to that's what your insurance is for. >> host: so everything should be catastrophic. so for instance, there was a cancer policy that was big in the '80s. those don't exist anymore. they don't sell them because they? >> guest: into losers with

health insurance companies. you get for the big diseases, big problems and take that unless of off the insurance industry completely? >> guest: correct. i remember, you sprain your ankle, you think you didn't actually? that's coming out of your hsa. you need a physical exam? hsa. birth control pills? hsa. no hobby lobby. so what happens? you're not impinge upon your major medical. what happened to the cost of the? >> guest: well, it should come down. now let's live in the real world or we have insurance lobbyists and the insurance companies and hospitals and all these people who have gotten rich. health care is among the fastest growing sectors in our economy. is considered a money maker in the semi-private sector. i say semi-because we know without medicare and without some of these things, so how do you enact your plan in the world we live in? >> guest: well, keep in mind what i'm talking about insurance, insurance is interest. it all works basically the same.

like your homeowners insurance. if you have a high deductible, guess what happens to the price of its? it plummets. if you want everything taken care of, guess what happens? same thing. exactly the same. >> host: chapter seven you use the phrase enslaving our children. it's a chapter on debt. some of our language -- your language that you just as certainly come to talk about this, the politically correct police, but words do matter and it did offend folks. so why not curtail some of your language? >> guest: what offends people that i've said? post but i think it depends on the point of view. it may be your political positions. there's all sorts of ways people get offended. >> guest: when i talk about political correctness i'm talking about not being able to express how you actually feel. >> host: so enslaving our children to some african-americans would say,

slavery is awful, slavery is this. to compare the national debt to slavery is doing a disservice to slavery. >> guest: what i would say about that which i talk about in the book, the whole hypersensitivity thing. a lot of things that bother people, but then somebody comes, did you what he said? a fan the flames. you should be offended. >> host: it works really well and 140 characters by the way gets back this is the same stuff thathey use to go on in the thid grade playground. did you hear what he said about you mama? come on. we don't have to deal with that. we have real major problems that we have to do with. the reason i talk about enslaving our young people is because this level of debt, i don't think most people can even comprehend $17.5 trillion going on the 18th truly but if you tried to pay that $18 trillion at $10 million a day, it would take you 5000 years.

i mean, that is an absurd amount of money. the only reason we can't sustain that is because the u.s. dollar is the reserve currency of the world. what if we were not? that the designation agenda goes with the number one economy in the world, which we then since the 1870s. we are going to lose it soon because -- hosting do you believe that? china is a mass. >> guest: they are a mess but they are going at six, 7%. how much are we growing? >> host: right has been so they will pass us up. however, i don't believe they're going to become the same kind of force. look at the banking system. >> host: there's a lot of problems they're going to face. >> guest: right. however, here's the issue. russia starting to talk about and some other nations about creating a basket currency. so instead of u.s. dollar being the basis to be a hodgepodge of things. what will that do to its? it will rob is or deplete us from the ability to print money.

what happens when you can't print money and you have the kind of data that we have? stop and think about that for a moment. >> host: let me ask you about raise. because you talk about political correctness in here. i look at the last 30 years and i think when i grew up, we have more honest discussions in the '70s about race than we do today. we are actually afraid to have, we say something happens, somebody attacks the president and we say we're going to have a real conversation about race, and we don't. there's some fear there. so let me start first with this. do you think, do you believe that some people against the president simply because of the caller of his skin in? >> guest: if you see some people, i'm sure there are some people who are against -- >> host: do you think -- >> guest: i don't think it's a larger number of people anymore. i do think people are very much influenced by their perceptions.

so for instance, if somebody told you, you know, carson is evil, terrible guy and he's scheming all the time. and then you met me, you would interpret everything i did, he's scheming. in a summit on the other hand, said he is this really nice guy, he loves everybody and to say okay, i can see that. somebody is always looking for racism, no matter what you say to them, you know, they are perceiving that as racism. >> host: have you experienced racism tragedy i'm sure that there probably has been some summer along the line, but it really has not been a big factor for me. my mother told me something very important when i was a youngster. she said if you walk into an auditorium full of racist, bigoted people, she said, you don't have a problem. they have a problem. they are all going to cringe and wonder if you're going to sit next to them and you can sit anywhere you want.

[laughter] that's the way i'd lead my life. if someone has a problem with it, enjoy. i've got more important things to do. >> host: do you think race has benefited you? >> guest: i don't think it's hurt me or i don't think it's benefit me. i think it is a wash. and i think particularly in the profession that i spent my whole life and, as a neurosurgeon. now, i fully recognize early on in my career, i would come into the room and some eyebrows would kind of go up, you know? is black that is going to operate? wow. .exe give you a little bit of that traffic i would feel a little bit but by the time i got through talking with them, and here's the problem, here's a report and let, you would see that completely melt away. >> hosthost that you entered a field i would argue some ways it's so result

oriented. that issue into a perfect perfect place to sort of if you wanted numbers, science, numbers don't lie. that's going to drop everything else. >> guest: without question. that's the wonderful thing about medicine. there was a procedure that i started advocating which was very, very controversial. and people were complaining, a complaint to the president of the hospital, the dean, department chairman, the maryland medical association, eva went up to the ama. but by that time i was able to reveal the numbers. they demonstrated that not a single person that died and there was very little in the way of complications. that ended the controversy. that won't work in politics. >> guest: numbers don't, people of their own set of facts and it really is a set of half-truths on both sides and the question is everybody is ground over there in the truth, just enough to defend their position. i want to go to an economic issue. you advocate for a flat 10%. everyone has to contend

something. >> guest: i didn't say 10% but i said it could be 10% but -- but it needs to be proportional. the reason i use 10% it because it's very easy to do the math. >> host: there in a. >> guest: but it needs to be whatever it needs to be to support the government. but it needs to be proportional because which a to recognize is by having this very skewed system with all of these deductibles and things, there are a lot of people who make enormous amounts of money who pay very little in taxes. 10% would be a lot to them. >> host: for some of them sure because there's so many ways for them to hike taxes. >> guest: and i think that's craziness and we don't have to do that. on the other hand, i believe it's insulting for people who make small amounts of money to say, they are, you little thing, you don't have to do anything, i'm going to take it be.

i believe if they really stopped and thought about it they would want to be, even though they would be contributing a lot, they are still carrying their weight. >> host: let me propose a counter argument in here on this group of folks that don't pay any federal income tax. if they go to a casino, if they buy a lottery ticket come in some way all of this game that we use, praise on the poor. >> guest: it does. >> host: they are spending more money funding our schools whether it's detroit that's decide to go casino gambling or other places but they're putting tax dollars into the pockets. they are putting tax money and. so there are ways that this group that, while they're not telling, writing a check to the federal government, they are can shipping arguably more money to edge tatian in a game situation than the rich. >> guest: however, gaming. that's what we're doing is gaming the system with this complex tax system. if we have something that's simple and easy to figure out,

first of all we are going to have a predictable amount of money that we're going to bring in. we will know what we need in order to run the government. the other thing that you might've noticed, i'm not a big proponent of gigantic government. why do i say that? in 2010, we have the statistics for that, if you took the income of her buddy who made 69,000 above, 5.1 trillion. what was the federal budget? 3.5 trillion. 60% of everything that middle-class and above makes. does that make sense? of course it doesn't. obviously, we need to reduce it. and i have proposed a very simple and fairway, thousand government employees retire every year. don't replace them. you can shoot people around but don't replace the. you do that for about four years, get down to a manageable size. and that doesn't fire anybody.

if people are down to a manageable size, then they can concentrate on what they're supposed to be doing. >> host: as you and i will know come something happens. like at the veterans affairs, eddie the hospital where something is getting done and nobody is up in arms and then we find out there just weren't enough people to do this. all of these things in the grand scheme of things make a lot of sense and the window the way government and politics work. how do you prevent the politics of the latest -- the way account works, look at this bomb and the federal government. we will have to fix it anybody, democrat and republican has to throw money at it. >> guest: sure. but they don't understand, a lot of people don't understand the fundamental problems of the via. i've worked in the va hospital. wonderful people, doctors, nurses, therapists, great people. wonderful patients. above them to death. huge amount of bureaucracy between this group and the

screw. that's the problem. get rid of that stuff. honestly, there are some things that veterans hospitals do very well, post-traumatic stress disorder's -- husband and you think they should be specialized. >> guest: but everybody else should go to other hospitals. >> host: go somewhere else. i want to in a little more political, which is used a seaward and i don't hear conservatives use for it often, and that's a compromise were. conservatives watches, grand. there's a difference between compromise, 50% of what you want, and common ground which is a tiny 10% that you both agree on, right? what's better? you are advocating for cover much. you want more 50/50 proposition's. >> guest: when i talk about compromise, i'm talking about compromise and a method. not necessarily a compromise in values and in principle.

>> host: this is in chapter 10. >> guest: right. when i look at democrats, look at republicans, except for the fringes, i think we all pretty much want the same thing. and we have allowed ourselves to be revved up into this group of hyper partisans, which we really shouldn't and don't have to be. >> host: where does it come from? we are more polarized. there's o'dowd, more people are identified as liberals and conservatives. more people have really, they will discover liberals and conservatives in awful names the and conservatives would do the same thing. they think the other side thinks they don't love america. that's something, that's what we've taken it too far. >> guest: leadership. it starts with leadership. a leader is somebody who can take a variety of individuals,

create a vision and have everybody working together to accomplish that. a bad leader is someone who says to this group, that group is against you. they are the bad ones. they would get everything that you want for them. that's bad leadership. another aspect of multitasking. during the current administration we had -- in the previous administration there wasn't enough multitasking. it was like focused on war and try to make sure that america didn't get attacked again. which have to be able to multitask. so we've had a pretty long drought since without the kind of leadership that says, america, let's remember who we are. have we made mistakes? of course we have. all people have made mistakes.

>> host: give me some examples of leaders you think have done it the right way. >> guest: well, john kennedy. this is a guy who came in, he was 44. look at the stuff that was going on. bay of pigs, the cuban missile crisis the civil rights movement, the economy was horrible, unemployment, you know. and the russians had passed us in the space race. what did he do? he used the bully pulpit to say we continued going to put a man on the moon and bring them back. galvanized business, industry, academic, everybody behind a project. they started working together. we were able to accomplish it. we put his brother bobby in charge of this of rights movement. bobby was very compassionate. the guy had his ear to the ground. he was very smart. he faced down the russians, enabled -- face world war ii. didn't blink. they did.

you know, he defied his own party. he said we need to raise taxes. he said do just the opposite. we need to lower taxes. it had a tremendous and really grating affect the incredibly brave guy. ronald reagan to look at the kind of leadership he provided, which actually resulted in the dissolution of the soviet union. and the winning of the cold war without firing a shot. you know, bravery, statesmanship, working across the aisle. he was able to work with the democrats. and kennedy was able to work with republicans. >> host: so do you see any leadership like that right now in either party? >> guest: i think there's potential, and one of the reasons i tend to keep speaking out is i want people on both sides to understand this.

>> host: do you -- what did you think of the clinton presidency traffic i was very pleased with the fact that he was able to work with republicans to get the budget under control. of course, if you know the whole history of that. >> host: it takes two to tango. there's an argument maybe you get do a big did budget deals with one party. it may be impossible. >> guest: so that was good. as you probably know, i don't spend a lot of time talking negatively about people. but what i would rather do is to spend time talking about how do we solve the problem. because we have the capability. we are smart people. we are innovative people. but we have two great the environment that offers hard work and the owners innovation. >> host: you bring it up yourself in this book, after speech after that for breakfast.

others said what about carson for president. so i ask you, why would you consider it? how serious are you considering it? >> guest: the reason, first of all certainly not my plan for retirement after a very long and arduous career. however, there's so many people every place i go, it's unbelievable the crowds that show a. i could do a book signing and people are like streaming out the door, there so many people they can't even get in. and they all say, you've got to do this, and then again i didn't take it that seriously. but it just keeps happening. i have to ask myself, you know, at some point do you have to put aside what you were planning and listen? >> host: you said in many ways that you see this a little bit

of faith, a little bit of gods plan. >> guest: absolutely. >> host: do you feel like -- >> guest: i believe that america, despite what president obama said, is a judeo-christian nation. and i believe that because i have done a lot of reading about the founding of this nation. all you have to do is go back and read the letters. >> host: very religious. >> guest: people who say our founders would be us have no idea what they're talking about. the evidence is quite clear they had strong faith. so i believe that it was those judeo-christian principles that led us to the pinnacle of the world, into a much higher pinnacle than anybody else ever experienced. >> host: you don't have a lot of factors things to say about the republican party. so i wonder, and have been thinking about your potential pl candidacy, a few grand, would you be more accountable running under a party banner or sounds to me like you be more accountable not running under a

political party? >> guest: if iran i would run as a republican. >> host: clear that up once and for all. >> guest: i would run as an independent because all does this split of the vote. i don't think it would be welcomed in the democratic party post that you would pick one of the two parties? >> guest: yes. >> host: there's a distrust inside both parties right now. and part of it is this potters thing. the right thinks i'm not getting a fair deal and its government fall. the left thinks i'm a getting a fair deal, it's wall street's fall. i think you can make an argument they are both right in some ways. and that's why i've wondered if some of this boils over to more of a row move and people go outside the party structures. >> guest: and i would, after seeing what happened with ross perot -- >> host: that's what conventions you. you want to reform which