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is a well-known court case and courted is my uncle became a family with five siblings and my father was the middle kid and gordon was the older son. >> host: who was gordon hirabayashi? >> that is a multifaceted you answer. for much of his life a sociology professor in alberta edmonton canada to talk about his professional career but he actually came into the limelight as a 24 year-old student and felt the curfew against not own the japanese after pearl

harbor but also japanese americans that he felt he was a u.s. citizen. in and that alien parents because they were ineligible to become naturalized citizens but i think gordon thought of himself as americans know -- not only to his parents but others liken self. >> host: what was the curfew? >> guest: at the order of the defense command after pearl harbor understandably they felt the need to secure areas like seattle and san francisco and glossy angeles purpleheart .

these areas and airports were too sensitive so they were restricted along with that for the u.s. and treat with a dawn to dusk curfew to keep the supposedly dangerous elements off the street. what really concerned courted was alien that did not have a citizenship but apart from fact there were also included in this curfew in other words, german americans or of german ancestry italian americans were not affected but second generation

japanese-americans was subject to the curfew as well. plus the orders for removal and gordon felt that was unconstitutional as well. and the christian family was a christian family my grandfather became a christian even though he was in japan. but also moral and religious reasons with the curfew and the exclusion. >> host: was the incident? >> guest: that courted was studying in the library at the university of washington and around 8:00 p.m. and

would have to go back to the dorm. in order to fulfil the curfew order. and then he got up and started to leave and then felt it was not right he did nothing wrong, he was an american issue and back to the library there was much consternation. >> host: white classmates? >> but just looking at photographs of fellow ymca members that there were

other asian-american faces. and his roommate at the time in this very concerned to water you doing here? it is after hours. and they said we're years studying for the exam. and he said i am here doing the same kind of thing. it was a principled stance that he did intentionally at the ymca because it is in including loan the campus with the bold decision he would not go along with this

with the constitutionality in and the order for removal but he dutifully recorded route was going including his coming back after an hour's. he made contact with the lawyer and fade decided but with direct evidence violated curfew and would present himself. he made that decision of jay but and accorded was his

lawyer. in tenth those who love this is meant to who retool -- but this is the time of 1942 with the internment camps of japanese-americans. but with the removal of people from the bainbridge island where the pioneers had settled and were forming and right out in the middle of puget sound to anybody in that kind of situation where they are on the waterway is

and a round of their sensitive installations. as early as march people were removed as part of the justice department sweep on the community immediately following pearl harbor. and it was very brave for gordon in that sense as things go into place for protection for national security, a curfew is understandable in that circumstance. but the principle for gore did was acquired japanese americans who were u.s. citizens also being singled out along with the japanese in germany and by italians? >> how did the because

they're in the beginning of removals' the mix of both charges were eventually filed at the local level for a taco . he spent five months in jail and what is interesting is when he landed in king county jail apparently he looked around to and saw where is everyone else because after all they had been brought up and educated in american schools about washington and abraham lincoln and the constitution and principles of democracy said he expected there would

be a crowd of other people who felt the same way. but that was not the case in was pretty much by himself. he spent about five months in the county jail and by the way this is really what we try to get across there was any number of laws about court in a tent chapters and so forth but around 2005 my father was cleaning out cordons steady and came across spiral notebooks that were an essence his diaries from the county jail and also correspondence from the days so what we've tried to do in this book is to capture the 24 year-old year-old, will was court in

thinking as a young man as he prepares to take on basically the united states government? with the region of highly talented and very intelligent foyers. i myself tried to put myself in accordance shoes may be i would have the guts but but what i do brewing to take this on? >> brett gordon the anguishes the before jail comes up. and is very quickly found guilty of both charges. violating curfew in to he

did not report to the registered to and it in order to move teat to seattle and was the he and people were put in the more permits camps? >> what is an unusual. he had tremendous because many were also pacifist. many had been involved with that you did you network of students in the concerned about the united states entry but from a quaker perspective the efficacy of war is no way to settle differences between people.

if you have the constituency supporting him and friends supporting him but i would also want to add he has a total support of the seattle-based the religious society. so it does evolves and then some juncture the quakers to decide to but to examine the constitutionality and then of the larger incarceration but what i expected so we pictured was leo but i would

be very depressed even if i felt i was right or i knew. there without the threatens the head not only the history but to use his old room words to describe of 15

1/2 but with after that he couldn't do that campaign requirement but he was a very americanized individual. said he felt right but i think he has the support of his classmates, of the ymca generally the society of friends of seattle was a remarkable group that included distinguished university professors then include politicians. so he had very senior members of the religious society of friends saying yes we will support you. you do the right thing and they even established

starting a defense committee to raise funds to help with legal fees. after going around the country to talk around the book one of the questions is what enabled him as a college student? he was 24. he could not afford to go straight through his class's you'd have to take a semester then work and save money then he would go and back. 24 is not very old and i would encourage people to buy the book give-and-take a look but the point is awarded was a very special person and he did have been interesting background but

at the same time he had tangible support and did not do this alone in the question if he could have done it in the letters are very but he educated himself he is reading. about jesus. and i was thinking gordon did not wear his religion on his steed leave - - sleeved. we didn't have a lot of contact but i never once heard him'' the bible or

ever talk about jesus ever. and yet in that sense it was a profound experience for me to read is steady the letters of the diary because i felt was getting ready to know somebody i did not know whether all. when i met corded he was already a professor, he did not wear his famous bow tie around the family house but they older professor, friendly, the professor type. >> host: to use the terms what are they? >> the japanese americans in the community relabel degeneration the hour of go and it is covered by the gentle man's agreement.

in but if they were they were aliens in this feed them through 1780 they were ineligible because the seven had to be a breach but there were recognized by birthwort each is its but they only do that by 1952 some of the quest of the generation to try to make their rights as u.s. citizens tangible and

real. so in the court of a principled stance that is all in cordons words, that experience as much as we could, we had to do some of filling year but he refers and where do i do math to be treated as a full-fledged aids jackman dash and i think one of the principles you have been hearing to, found it guilty and then yes. but had he even visited japan at that point i heard

they might to and to my grandfather did throughout the course of his life the immediate family was not wealthy and to their wusses

but all the money the members of the family earned went into the collective not a big decal but the cookie jar because they did everything to get by. my dad said anything to do with education my grandparents would be willing to go into the jar so there was a dream in the family that all of the children would go to the university. my grandmother very much inspired all children would have white-collar professions. >> what it did in girtin's an initial thoughts. >> i know immediately my grandmother was deeply concerned in some of her concerns had to do with the family and family unity so gordon describes his brother -- mother begged him and

wept you don't know what is going to have been. if we will be separated. maybe will be found guilty maybe we will never see you again and she pleaded with him not to do this. and somewhere gordon remember that this was more difficult than his. >> good direct effect of this case? >> no. the guys anyway, . gordon came back to the

university of washington after the war and got his m.b.a. degree which was pretty late with the circumstances of the war but that was followed pretty quickly by pedigree and a master's to spend time subsequently in the middle east probably had as a middle east as a quaker was involved with peace activities even in those days. i think but he remained there as a sociologists. but it is a rejection of the

united states for an expression. although gordon did believe he would be fully vindicated by the supreme court that was interesting. win he was convicted at the local court but to make the announcement. >> they have all but refused to listen to the supreme court and i believe it was his hope to understand the constitutional issues. but he and barnett developed a systematic argument of the position of which was the application.

and to be biracial myself i may apply a clause for those that were half of japanese ancestry, even down to 1/8 1/8, some how that fits you removed and to into when these camps. it was profoundly unconstitutional and gordon believed the supreme court justices would agree with him about that. >> host: did they? >> guest: at some of the did not. but because there was a relationship between the conviction and the time he - - sheet asked that his

sentences in opposition and removal has lessened the little bit. >> they decided only to take the curfew portion of the case. they avoided engaging the constitutional finality of mass removal. i have heard attorneys say that this was very

deliberate. seven out of nine of the supreme court and trying to be supportive of those presidential orders supposedly based off of military necessity of. but in any case they have upheld the conviction of violating curfew in that sense and an appellate his conviction. they did not stand by the principles of the u.s. constitution as corrigan had helped. >> host: he died in 2012 when about but as the obama decided to give court in an award the presidential medal

of freedom. and corrigan did not live to see that but my father did. and although he was but i did come into his room bragging to the gentleman who was an gordon was awarded a high metal. he also did not live to see it but absolutely no doubt the family one felt this was

the case for of america is and only by standing up during times of crisis for the u.s. constitution can we make the documents served the end to which it was intended. >> host: talking with lane hirabayashi professor of asian american studies at ucla and the co-author of this book along with his uncle. >> and my dad. >> "a principled stand" the story of hirabayashi v. united states". >> make you very much.