taking that kind of race. >> host: you quote your colleague justice scalia saying the risk is infinitesimal i think .02% i think figure something like that. i take it that's tilt too big of a risk for you? >> guest: that is and i think anyone has to be troubled by that possibility. of course he can't be terribly proud of the fact that the united states is ranked with three or four nations that have a different form of society than we do. whereas most of the countries in western europe have long ago abolished the death penalty. >> host: you talk about the fact that all members of the court now think it's not permissible to inflict an execution that's deliberately intended to cause pain and you talk about the mix of chemicals that were used until recently to try to minimize pain and yet right now we are having a dramatic debate about whether the existing chemicals do in fact torture prisoners?

what is your view on that? >> guest: well one of the reasons why the risk is there is professionals like the medical profession and the nursing profession and so forth do not permit their members as a matter of ethics, they do not participate in the execution itself so you necessarily are dealing with the most skillful people to put people to death. there is a danger of a botched execution like we have the other day partly because professionals don't think it's a good idea. >> host: and the chemicals are no longer available because the suppliers don't make them available. is it the case that if the current court were to hear a case involving an execution that clearly cause torture would everyone agree with that? >> guest: if it were were to do what? >> host: like we saw the other

day where the prisoner was obviously tortured, would they agree it would be cruel and unusual? >> guest: i'm not sure that they will conclude that is going to happen enough to make it permanently cruel and unusual. >> host: usada support for the death penalty is going down the country. >> guest: this may be an amendment that the issue may take care of itself by the states enacting their own legislation but it does seem to me that more people actually think about the cost involved both in human costs and financial costs. it's terribly expensive litigation that goes on for years and people down in florida have been on death row for 20 or 30 years and it certainly doesn't satisfy public interest in retribution. wesley reviewed many many death cases during your many decades on the supreme court.

was there a case in which it had serious doubts about whether or not the convict was innocent? >> guest: yes, there were cases but most of the time you didn't get into the merits in depth so you sell them were presented with enough of the facts to actually form an opinion on it. but there were a few. there was one in pennsylvania if i remember correctly where there were serious doubts about whether the complaining witness or the defendant was really the perpetrator of the crime. >> host: and how did you feel when the execution took place in the court refused to stop a the? >> guest: i thought it was a mistake. >> host: the final amendments that you propose has to do with an amendment to the 2nd amendment and this is one of our most hotly contested constitutional questions and at the center of this debate under

your amendment you would add some language the second amendment. you would say a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms windsurfing in the militia shall not be infringed. hosts -- ..

but in one of the consequences of the law as it developed is that it has made not the state legislatures but, rather, federal judges to have the final say on what kind of gun control and gun registration the state should adopt. this should not be the province of federal judges. satellite be the province of state legislatures and that's the central message of the chapter. >> this chapter, although compelling, doesn't fit in that theme of government neutrality and fairness. it sort of dives right into a hotly contested historical debate where people on the other side say, there is evidence the framers and the post reconstruction people intended to protect individual rights. why did you decide to

but i just didn't think i could write a book about amendments i think are necessary and leave this one out. because i do think it's a terribly important subject. i think in time, if the reason will prevail, but i'm not optimistic about this chapter accelerating the process to bring it to a conclusion within the next few years. >> justice stephens, you are a force of nature. when we last talked you just celebrated your 94th birthday and were going to play tennis the next day. did you play and how did you do? >> i played the game and was able to remain vertical and i

enjoyed because i have a good friend on the other side of the court. my game is nothing to be proud of. >> famously it's pretty good, and i think it's fantastic you're still brick. it's been a great honor to have this conversation with you. congratulations to you for writing this new book, six amendments, how and why we should change the constitution. on behalf of chance, i'm jeffrey rosen. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> that was "after words," booktv's signature program n which authors are interviewed by journalist, public policymakers, legislators and others familiar with their material. "after words" airs every weekend on booktv another 10:00 p.m. on saturday, 12:00 and 9:00 p.m. on sunday and 12:00 a.m. on monday. you can also watch "after words" online, go to book of.org and

click on "after words" in the topics list on the upper right side of the page. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2. here's our primetime lineup: up next, representative james clyburn presents his biography. at 8:30, sylvia morris describes the life of claire lose booth. -- luce booth. and we wrap up the primetime programming at 11:00 with authors of "obama's enforcer: eric holder's justice department." >> representative james clyburn talks about his life from this early days in the jim crow south to a position as the third highest ranking democrat in the u.s. house of representatives. this hour-long program is next on booktv.

>> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. >> i'm douglas slaughter, the executive chairman of the center for african-american from culture. i want to welcome alloff you here for this great occasion; it's a blessed experience. let's give the congressman a hand. [applause] >> we want to welcome you to a work in progress. this is the center for african-american for history, art, and culture. the late 1800s it was the first school that aken developed for the children of newly freed slaves, and since that time it's been a school for several generations and we are excited about the opportunity to turn this once again into a learning center. aikins has a rich history.

people aren't often aware of the history of the community hi live in. i don't know if you know this but aiken county was establishes by african-americans during the time of reconstruction. we want to tell the story of that history. i'm an african-american from baptist pastor, and what i'm really excited about is the birthplace of the african-american from baptist church here in aiken county. that story and all of the rich stories of akin will be told at this cultural center, and we thank you for being here. at the end of everything, if you want to go on a tour, we'd love to show you what we're up to here at the culture center with want to invite dr. san very jordan, the chancellor at the university of south carolina aiken to come and give us remarks. [applause] >> thank you so much. >> i'm so honored to be invited

to give a few remarks on this very important occasion. luckily, i was just in washington, dc and had an opportunity to visit the office of congressman clyburn, where i was received very warmly by his staff, and then had a chance to be personally welcomed by the congressman and we had a chance to chat. i was there to thank him for the work he does, the golf tournament he sponsors, that provides scholarships. the scholarships allow students to might not otherwise be able to go to college to have a chance to get an education. it was your idea. you helped to create the opportunity. >> thank you. >> and we are so grateful for your dedication to education. while was there i had the audacity to ask the congressman to sign a copy of his biography. what he may not know is that i

had to run all over washington, dc to get that book. i am pretty sure i bought the last copy in all of washington. in fact i had to go almost to maryland. cost me $65 in a taxicab. but i want to tell you that every read the book, what i did with it, congressman, i got him to sign the book, and i came home and i read it; and then i donated it to the university library. why would i give away a book that cost me extra money? a lot of effort. because i think it's a book every student in south carolina should read. it's a book that in its essence, is about how one person can make a difference, not only in our state, but throughout our nation. especially if that is an individual who is working from deep-seated values and with great integrity.

it is such a pleasure to have you here you may not know at one point in his career he, too, was a teacher of -- fifth grade and. >> yes, sir. >> takes a special person to teach tenth grade. i know. that's why i teach college. accomplish so i know there's been a long tradition of valuing education by the congressman. >> i appreciate it. thank you very minute. [applause] >> at this time we'd like to ask the representative bill clyburn to come and introduce the congressman formally. >> ladies and gentlemen, truly an honor and pleasure today to institute our congressman, our author, in public service.

we refer to him as jim, and i think i have been knowing him now for probably longer than anyone, but the congressman was born and raised in south carolina. he is a son of a fundamentalist baptist preacher, his mother was a beautician. he has would brothers, john and james, and -- john and charles. the congressman is married to the former emily england. now, we refer to his wife as miss emily. now, it's a reason for that. she's a really, really great, beautiful, silver-haired lady. and when the congressman and i get to discussing, he is quick to tell me, i don't agree with -- but when he talks to

miss emily he listens. the president of the united states, you know, that's when congressman clyburn speaks, that the congress listens. well, that's true, too, but when miss emily speaks, the congressman listens. he has been the former chairman of the legislative black caucus. he is the former chair and vice-chair for the democratic caucus in congress. he has been involved with so many things throughout the states. he was educated in the public school system. he graduated from -- got his education at state university, and south carolina school of law.

he has three daughters, matter of fact one of his daughters is here. may, please raise your hand. his oldest daughter, and she is a commissioned on the lcc, communication commission, and she is here with us today to be with her father to sign the books. i could give you so many good things that the congressman has done. now, he done particularly like for me to do introductions. he doesn't want it done and make a speech, but i'm going to be at liberty to tell you that not only am i related to him, but i want to have the opportunity to tell you a couple things about the congressman that you may not know, and he eluded to scholarship -- a group of scholarship he has been responsible for through this

golf tournament, and for first tee. he has been involved with so many young kids, getting them started, and that -- he loves to play golf and the only way -- he is very patient. the only way i can get inupset, get in a hard discussion about goals and make up a story and he gets upset about that. i want you to think that the congressman -- thank the congressman for what he has done, not only in his district but for people throughout the country. never hear the congress speak about that, but you will not believe the contributions he has made in order to keep this site going. and so we really, truly,

appreciate your compassion, and i want the people here to know that not only we are cousins but we're friends, and we really appreciate miss elma, who really stood by you and has really been helpful and contributed to the uplifting of the spirit of all of us. ladies and gentlemen, this is the congressman. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. thank you very much. thank you, bill. thank you, doctor, for presenting here today, and let me thank the developers of this great historic effort, for

allowing us to grace your unfinished business. here today. leslie price, thank you so much. when i was first contacted about doing a book signing here in aiken, i really thought that we would probably do it at bill's church, where i often meet with him, but lessee thought that it would be in keeping with this effort, and with this product, for us to do this here at this facility. and those of you who know me, you know that one of my real

passions is historic preservation and restoration. you see a lot of that in this book. i believe that these structures, those buildings that housed so much of our day-to-day activity, we really have learned the character of a community by looking at the buildings. these buildings at the period of time within which they were designed and built. say something about the culture, and i fell veer strongly that -- feel very strongly we ought to hold on to that. and those of you who are working on this, please know that you

are appreciated, and i look forward to finding ways i can be a part of this effort. and so thank you all so much for doing this here. now, my wife has just been introduced. thank you. [applause] >> you see in this book how we met. it's one of those stories that people all over the country seem to enjoy telling. but i tell people, though we met in jail, d -- [laughter] -- that an institution that sometimes works. for us it did. because if she continues to conduct herself appropriately, -- [laughter] -- in 17 days we will celebrate

our 53rd wedding anniversary. [applause] and i'm very pleased that our first born is here with us today. now, she was just in aiken several weeks ago for an event. she is back today, really because she had to come home to vote. it was -- there were a few days trying to get her absentee ballot, and finally it happened two days ago, she had received a ballot. and i said, i hate for you to go to this great expense, but i would hate to lose this election by one vote. so she flew home and decided to

stay over for this event, and he thank her so much. i want to say a couple things about the book and then answer any questions you may have. several of you told me that you have read the book. william, i was supposed to have another introduction but i see he and his lovely wife are now walking through the door. my brother charles is walking in. [applause] and his wife,. thank you for being here as well. when i started out to write this book i started with the working title which was "i, too, am a southerner." now, i guess i better explain why i'm sitting down and not standing up. as most of you know i'd rather

stand up. i've been told by c-span they set this up for me to sit down, and so that's why i'm seated. when i started out, it came from an experience i had when i was on the governor's staff. one of my jobs as a staffer to governor john west, was to attend committee meetings and to really take notes and sit down with the governor, let him know exactly how his agenda was progressing with the legislature. well, one day in one of those meetings, we were trying to get a piece of progressive legislation passed, the creation of the south carolina human affairs commission. and one of the legislators who was not particularly enamored

with that idea, said some things in the meeting that i thought crossed the line. and after the meeting, i went up to him and told him what i thought. and his explanation to me was, well, clyburn, you have to understand, i'm a southerner. well, i did not believe that being a southerner meant that you had license to be insulting. and to say things that were unbecoming of a public servant in my opinion. and so later that day, i said to my colleagues, when this experience is over, i'm going to sit down and i'm going to write a book, and i'm going to entitle that book, "i, too, am a southerner." i said because i -- not only am i a southerner. you are a southerner.

and phil just happened to have been white, and i said to him, you don't say things like that. and i hope you don't think that way. and i think that we need to really have a discussion of what it means to be a southerner. so, that's the way i started. when i got about halfway through the book, i hit a wall and just couldn't get it done. and i retreated to also secluded spot in my home, where i often go, when i'm challenged and can't seem to get things done. i call upon my centers of aristotle who said a life without contemplation is not worth living. and that is where i go to contemplate and give meaning to

my effort. and on that particular day, it suddenly occurred to me that my father, who was a fundamentalist minister, who would take his last meal of the week, every friday, around 6:00, and he would not eat a full meal again until after church services on sunday. and he would spend all day saturday reading, writing, and preparing himself for his services on sunday. he would only drink water and eat bread. and that is the way he prepared. but when he would get up to walk throughout the house he would be humming his favorite hymn,

"blessed assurance." and i wondered, what did my dad get out of that hymn? and i went and got a copy of the hymn. and i read it. and i saw in the first and third verses, and especially in the refrain, exactly what my dad got out of that song, and it so -- it was like some kind of transition -- i don't know how to explain it -- i got back to my typewriter, in this world computer -- and i began to write, and it all came to me. and when i finished writing, and submitted the book, i had reached 186,000 words.

they said to me, look at our agreement. we don't publish books of this type beyond 150,000 words. you need to find a way to cut 36,000 words out. of the book. or it would change the character, it would devalue the effort, and would probably drive down readership. so i spent the next almost two years rewriting the book, so as to take 36,000 words out, and re-submitted it, and this is that product. now, i'm going to conclude by reading the last of the

chapters, give you a flavor of what this book is about. my story is one of national leadership. and local advocacy. it is a story of a black youngster who grew up in the jim crow south, fought most of his adult life to lower barriers of discrimination and emerge at the national level as a political pragmatist and a a consensus builder. when i decided to write this memoir, i south to hear from the long-time friend and confident, fill phillip g. ross, juniors. he was a speech writer for two governors. and wrote books on both of them. phil's untimely death about

two-thirds of the way through my project, gave me great pause in more ways that one. we spent many hours discussing our mutual backgrounds, common heritage, and different cultures. he was a tremendous help for style and respected, but from the very beginning, i reserved unto myself all substance and content. i miss him dearly. i've always been frustrated by those who explain the questionable expressions and actions toward me and those who look like me by proclaiming themselves to be southerners, moderates, or conservatives. phil and i shared a low tolerance for such behavior. and for years, i told him that

if i ever wrote the memoir he always promised to help me with, it would be titled "i, too, am a southerner." long before i became the son of the south, i was an offspring of two died in the wool, proudly conservative southerners, who treated me and my brothers, and people who look like us, with great love and affection. my mother spent long hours in her beauty shop, and was a generous contributor and supporter of the naacp, as well as many other community causes and political activities. ...

>> [applause] raise your hand if you have a question. the microphone will come to you.

>> one of your stories you talk abroad that experience working in the bowling alley was in the community but i remember my mother taking me to the bowling alley with those same experiences to open that up to the community. how would you like to share for a candidate for this community for each and every one? >> my book addresses those experiences now in order to see the blessings of those experiences.

i would say it is that i consider all of them to be blessings. one of my professors my sophomore year saudi going back and forth one day to say young man you must understand you'll never be any more or any less. one of the things we fall short of with the experiences of other people.

you will find the discussion differences between me and their mother as she grew up on a 22-acre pond in the suburb. she grew up walking to school 2 miles in the morning and 2 miles in the afternoon there were not allowed school buses until later. now i grew up three blocks from my elementary school and six blocks from my middle school and that i graduated from the academy that we call a boarding school. my dormitory was 20 steps.

so i never knew what it was to walk for miles. so when i express with the and chapman of a court decision to integrate the schools from north carolina but then to explain to me in vernacular to not write a school bus that i should not ever be against busing? this seems to me you would

do well to understand that people you asked to vote for you. [applause] a lot of people lowe's get carried away with those tv commercials and is not what public service is all about for me. but respecting people's background to reconcile differences to do what you can't that everybody can buy into. and then to suppress your own feelings and then everybody running for office.

and there is a letter to my children and grandchildren and all others similarly challenged so if you have a business hoodie want to be your customers if you run for office get to know the people to vote for you. that is much more important to and for them to get to know you. [applause] >> congressman my favorite story in the book that plays the scene throughout the book the story that your father told you when you were competing with each

other but as i read your book for how we should work together in the community and the nation could you speak to that? >> thank you very much. i never told that story happened when i was 14 years old. my two brothers and i too have of the the 1937 chevrolet you could tell - - run into a telegraph pole. but every time saturday came it would just talk working. [laughter] so on this particular

saturday the three of us went to mr. singletons automobile repair place and of course, mrs. singleton and started to raise the front end to get its hundred for running for another week. and my brother started to play near the car. i don't know how strong this chain is it could pop or fall on one of you. so we went across the field and we were not gone long before we got into a physical discussion. [laughter] you may have called it a fight if you observed it. we did not know it but my

dad was watching. after it had gone on long enough he called the brothers to him and they lined up in front of him. he had a piece of courted stirring. in said pops a string. and i struggled and could not poppet. and you were two years older and stronger you pop the string. he struggled and struggled and could not pop it. and he gave it to me. you're the oldest, you were the strongest you pop the string. i could not. then took it back in but the

string in the palms of his team as it began to rub them together and the more he rubbed the more friction he created and of course, the more unraveled it became an and a very short order that piece of string was then three pieces one to charles charls, one to john and one to me and said now pop this during. -- the string. with no effort all three of us did. let this be a lesson for as long as you live. once you let disagreements pop up cause so much friction entellus separates because if you do the world will pop you apart if you

may never know why. never shared that story publicly and tell my dad's funeral. it had a remarkable impact on me and still has. whenever i see a disagreement coming up amongst the three of us that may threaten our future relationships i stop. my brother john one time shared stop me in the middle of the sentence and said you are not going to change my mind. let's talk about something else. we need to get along.

[laughter] that is one of the great stories to people around the country. >>. >> one of the things to talk about your father's footsteps and i remember when the community had a community forum to and you were a guest speaker at the strom thurmond high-school. and it was so dynamic and tell when you finished that

we nominate him. [laughter] you were so good. then i read in the book when you were second-guessing yourself because having heard you two or three years ago to be a minister as a politician and a congressman and i was just curious. >> into and i was the kid i just grew up in the church. i grew up in the church. worshiped at 11:00 news

fellowship at five and wednesday night and friday i grew up in the church. and it seemed to be a natural thing. around my sophomore year going to the seminary in the anderson north carolina where the churches headquarters. so it was my first experience in the integrated environment in anderson indiana and i knew that is what i was going to do do. but after getting out of jail for the second or third time that was not working.

but i decided to go off and a different direction. i thought he would be disappointed and he probably was but to say on that day i suspect the road much rather see a sermon than here one. but then to do other things but throughout my professional career. i find myself regretting especially in this book. and i wrote the preface pretty much after i finished the book and i realized

while writing the book has to whether or not to do the right thing but to be frank i did not feel i was ready to make the kind of commitment it is hard for me to not with my sermons. i didn't think i was ready to live the fundamentals they would be preaching. is schaede didn't think i would either. [laughter] [applause]

i do a lot more drinking and eating man taking communion. [laughter] >> representative it is extremely exciting to me you have come to your book signing here. i wish he would talk about the value of education they no value as much as they sometimes should. first of all, there is a part of the book that deals how people react to failure. when i ran a 1975 loss. 1978 and i lost.

iran 1986 had lost. then my friend said were you going to do know? he just lost for the third time and they say three strikes in and you're out. i said that is the baseball rule. nobody should live their lives by baseball rules. every young person especially north carolina young people should live by the state's motto. we have to while i breathe, i hope.

so every commencement address that i give it to be from elementary school, from i school, college, even law school. i was the speaker for the law school graduation. and gave them the same at its. that you should never give up one your dreams and aspirations. in my mother said to me senate if you cannot get

the problem solved the first time then triazines try again. nobody ever said try one more time. there is no numerical limit on how many times you try. and we give thomas edison credit. i want somebody to tell me how many times thomas edison failed before getting it

right. nobody knows. nobody knows how many times he has failed people celebrate him for his success. so education is the great equalizer. i don't care how tough it is you have to put a value on education and if you fail fail, try again. you will see in the book by failed physics at north carolina state. not because i could not do it. i guess i could but it is hard with the 7:30 a.m. physics class when you were up all night so i neglected going to class and i was

rewarded appropriately. so that means you have more to come. if i had quit after losing a third time i would never become the number three guy. in the house of representatives. [applause] >> you probably don't remember me but going back to high school a couple years ago i just want to say one thing that america is what it is today because the people like you. forget political parties or anything else.

what you tell these kids to set your goals high don't let anyone anything to be the best you can be. god bless. [applause] >> referendum there is the scene in the book where president clinton gives you a call and gives you a hard time and how much did that ketch you off guard and how about those relationships since then? >> that so-called did catch me off guard the little after 2:00 in the morning. nothing unusual for me to stay up late like that on election night because not only looking at results from south carolina but the trend

across the country. so i go from c-span to msnbc and all over to see what is happening. i was up. there was a conversation with another person before the president kay mondo line and he was pretty upset because his life was is just defeated decisively in the south carolina primary. and of course, he thought i put my a thumb on the scales say a little bit to favor president obama. but i say in the book there is no way in the world for me with my young guest she was leaving her job at 5:00

every day down at the obama headquarters almost every night. jennifer who is older no question come in a way in the world, yes, i voted for obama but i did not get involved with the campaign so i asked him to tell me why i had not kept the promise i made to publicly state out of the campaign? because south carolina was given the opportunity to be the first state in the south to have a primary. i was asked whether or not i could stay neutral so to get

that primary to the states. . .

>> good afternoon, ms. emily, to your family and the reverend whose leadership i follow here spiritually in south carolina. i am a washington resident and my roots are on the cusp of the county and where was on my way to a leadership while the chair person for the black caucus and

i attended that. to my amazement for many years i thought you were a congressman of all people. i wanted to congratulate you on the achievements you brought to the country and internationally. being from washington you have brought together so many people of all races and we thank you. god bless you and your family. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> congressman, i want to thank you first of all and your lovely bride for being here today. it is truly an honor to wince

witness history in the making. my question is for your bride. and the reason why i want to say what i want to say and ask the question is in addition to my relationship with christ the next most important relationship to me is that of my marriage between my husband and me. and i think that is is on earth one of the greatest accomplishments i have. i know your relationship in your book with you having been married for 53 years and now in society we have people ready to give up on love and marriage at the drop of a dime, how are you able to hold it all together in the midst of him doing all of the things he does? you maintaining your identity and being that support there?

because i think that right there is a message in and of itself. [applause] >> it has been a challenge. [laughter] >> i have tried to be realistic about marriage and holding a family together. you have to share and you have to give up a lot. in any case, i am giving up more than he is giving up. in some cases it is the reverse. but we tend the battle politically. but when it comes to family we are together. we try to raise your children and