and like the poles and hungarians, the czechs and the slovacs and the east germans on top of that wall, you are stronger, and you always believed one day, no matter what, we will win. today your example, your victory gives hope to people all over the world. yes, there will be setbacks, and there will be frustrations, and there will be moments of doubt and moments of despair. the currents of history ebb and flow. but over time they flow toward freedom. more people in every corner of the earth standing up and reaching to claim those rights that are universal. and that's why in the end our ideals are stronger, and that's why in the end our ideals will win. dignity will win, because every

human being is born equal with free will and inalienable rights, and any regime or system of government that tries to deny these rights will ultimately fail, and countries that uphold them will only grow stronger. justice will win, because might does not make right, and the only path to lasting peace is when people know that their dignity will be respected and that their rights will be upheld. and citizens, like nations, will never settle for a world where the big are allowed to bully the small. [applause] sooner or later, they fight back. [applause] democracy will win, because a government's legitimacy can only come from citizens, because in this age of information and empowerment people want more

control of their lives, not less. and because more than any other form of government ever devised, only democracy -- rooted in the sanctity of the individual -- can deliver real progress. and freedom will win. not because it's inevitable, not because it is ordained, but because these basic human yearnings for dignity and justice and democracy do not go away. they can be suppressed, at times they can be silenced, but they burn in every human heart in a place where no regime could ever reach, a light that no army can ever extinguish. and so long as free peoples summon the confidence and the courage and the will to defend the values that we cherish, then

freedom will always be stronger, and our ideas will always prevail. no matter what. thank you. and long live our great alliance. thank you very much. [applause] thank you. [applause] ♪ ♪ the best thing about me is you. ♪ ♪ ♪ the best thing about me -- >> wrapping up with president obama in talin, estonia today. he is visiting that country while meeting with baltic leaders. tomorrow the president will attend the nato summit in wales before returning here to the

u.s. on friday. of. .. >> 200 years ago british soldiers invaded washington d.c. and burned down the white house said the u.s. capital. president james madison and first lady dolley madison fled the city. joy nestle today for the first part of the two day symposium with historians and doctors marking the anniversary hosted by the white house historical association and the u.s. capitol historical society with live coverage beginning today at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. turning to let the world

politics live coverage of the debate between candidates in the north carolina senate race. here are some of the political ads running in north carolina. >> right there in black and white, house speaker tom tillis rules on public schools cutting $500 million. he sliced and diced education creating chaos in our classrooms and hurting middle-class families while giving tax breaks to jet owners. thom tillis cutting schools and giving breaks to the wealthy, the democratic senatorial campaign committee is responsible for the content of advertising. >> businesses count on accountability but accountability is a foreign language in washington. obamacare is a disaster but the president won't admit it. the debt is out of control.

k hagan enabled president obama's worst ideas, she refused to clean up this mess so you and i have to clean up hers. i am thom tillis and i approve this message and that is why i am running for the u.s. senate. >> just some of the political ads running in north carolina for the u.s. senate race. live coverage of the candidates debate between k hagan and republican thom tillis on our companion network c-span. >> here are some highlights for this coming week and. friday live at 10:00 eastern on c-span the nebraska supreme court will hear oral arguments on the keystone pipeline saturday at 6:30 p.m. on the communicators, former fcc commissioners michael koss and robert mcdowell with campaign 2014 gearing up, what the latest debates on c-span.

sunday at noon debate between comment to the credit senator and k hagan and tom tillis, incumbent jerry brown and neil kashka kashkari. un you are an international law and what little affected has on the behavior of powerful nations. saturday on booktv's afterwards. mike gonzalez and how he thinks republicans canadians with the hispanic vote. sunday at noon and in depth our three our conversation and your phone calls with former chair of the commission on civil rights mary frances berry. friday night at 8:00 eastern on american history tv on c-span3 authors and historians talk about the burning of washington during the war of 1812. saturday on real america the building of the hoover dam and sunday night at 8:00 the anniversary of president gerald ford and richard nixon. c-span.org, let us know what you think about the programs you're watching.

202-626-3400, send a sweet or e-mail us at comments@c-span.org. join the c-span conversation, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> in april the house homeless security committee marked the 1-year anniversary of the boston marathon bombings with testimony from law-enforcement officials who had responded to the attack. witnesses included watertown massachusetts police chief edward deveau whose officers were attacked by the tsarnaev brothers as they attempted to flee the boston area. this hearing is one hour and 45 minutes. [inaudible conversations]

>> the committee on homeland security will come to order. the committee is meeting today to continue a series of hearings examining the boston bombings of april 15th, 2013. today there will be a memorial service in my home state of texas for the fort hood shooting that took place on april 2nd, 2014. before we continue this, i would like to take a moment of silence to recognize the victims of this horrific attack. i recognize myself for an opening statement. this is a powerful and emotional day for the witnesses, time to remember the anniversary of the boston marathon bombings, a time to remember the victims. i personally remember walking

down boylston street with boston police commissioner davis who is with us here today. i remember him pointing out that trash cans where the bombs went off, and during 260 innocent people and killing three including an 8-year-old boy in cold blood. in we also witnessed exceptional bravery. if not for the heroic acts of the first responders, and boston's citizens who ran toward danger, many more could have died. i remember after the attack the marathon is tying their shoes together and hundreds in a memorial lot of respect and dedication. also remember the watertown police chief who is with us today as well. thank you for being here. i remember him taking me and congressman cheating on a tour of their quiet neighborhood and

seeing the aftermath of the gun fight to take down two of the biggest terrorists since 9/11. what happened after that is what heroes are made of. tamleran through everything he had that these officers including pipe bombs, rounds of ammunition and a pressure cooker i e d. the boston bomber was subdued after the heroic acts and efforts of our local law enforcement who are with us today as well. what is not so well known is had it not been for the efforts of commissioner davis and those of the watertown police force, our nation could have been further terrorized. these terrorists had six more bombs in their car and they were on their way to times square. if it wasn't for these heroic acts of bravery new york city could have been hit again. we will hear from these brave individuals today for the first time before congress.

this committee through its oversight responsibilities conduct a thorough investigation into what happened and what went wrong. we found several flags and warnings were missed. we found tsarnaev -- tamleran was on the radar and dropped off, he trailed, known for his chechen terrorists. this is precisely what the russian letter warned our intelligence community and fbi about. he came back even more radicalized. we also found unfortunately customs, fbi, intelligence committee somehow missed it. arrogantly some u.s. officials said it would not have made a difference. it would not have made a difference if they had known about his overseas travels. we now know a check of his public social media would have shown indicators such as jihadists video postings. his mosque had seen escalating

behavior as well. it likely would have been clear he was becoming more and more of a threat to the community which takes me to my last point. state and local police have a strong role in counterterrorism. they know the streets better than anybody and they know the local threats. the boston pd should have given more information, should have been given more information throughout the entire process. they must know the terrorist threats in their own backyards. they know those. this process in my judgment as to change. in an effort to do this two weeks ago our committee issued a report about the boston marathon bombings. over the course of the year we held two hearings, had numerous briefings and engagements, traveled to boston multiple times, headed to a bipartisan staff delegation, traveled to moscow. i certainly went to boston and moscow with mr. keating and spoke with officials on the

ground. i want to thank the democrats for their participation in the investigation and the report and i am pleased that their input was reflected in the final report. based on the lessons learned, we should our findings and recommendations to fix some of the systemic problems that led to tamleran tsarnaev falling off of our radar. i hope to think in a small way the recommendations we made in this report can make a difference in preventing the tragedy we saw in boston from occurring again in the homeland. i am pleased to report that both the fbi and t h s are constructively implementing the recommendations of this committee's report and i commend them for that. let us hope a tragic event like this never happens again. with that i will recognize the

heroes in this hearing and this committee room here today, the watertown officers who are with us today who were directly involved in tamleran's take down and taken off the streets once and for all. sergeant jeff pugliese, sergeant john mcclellan, officer joseph reynolds, officer miguel collins, officer michael kaimac and of course chief deveau. would you please stand and be recognized? [applause] [applause]

>> the chair recognizes the acting ranking member miss sanchez. >> i thank the chairman for holding this hearing and extend my condolences to the families of the poor people killed during last week's shooting at fort hood and additional prayers with the 16 people who were injured during that shooting and i want to recognize first responder community and medical personnel for their incredible response to the shooting. as of today the joint terrorism task force does not consider the shooting an act of terrorism but the investigation is still ongoing. i am going to read into the record the comments from ranking member mr. thompson of mississippi which i concur with. incidents like last week's shooting in the boston marathon bombing, the focus of today's hearing remind us of the importance of our first responders. that being said i commend the

service of our witnesses, former commissioner davis, chief isil, sgt pugliese, and courageous efforts in his research. resilience and responsive two reasons almost a year ago the boston metropolitan area -- almost a year from ago the boston metropolitan area remains strong. i wish may wash, president of the boston athletic association and all the runners and volunteers participating in the 118th boston marathon as the race commences on the 21st of april. even the boston is standing strong it would be the first business of the community not to take a look back. there are still unanswered questions about the tsarnaev bomber is. we owe it to the people of

boston to make sure the appropriate officials do a thorough review of that situation. last april the inspector general of the intelligence community department of homeland security and the central intelligence agency announced the joint investigation into whether intelligence was properly distributed and acted upon in the months and years before the bombings at the boston marathon. i find it unfortunate that the review was delayed because of the senseless 16 day government shutdown in october of 2015. partisan disagreements create serious gaps in homeland security oversight and this is just one example of the myriad setbacks the shutdown yielded. another development his attorney general eric holder's announcement that the u.s. would be seeking the death penalty

against tamleran tsarnaev, the alleged boston marathon bomber. was arrested and indicted and i declared my confidence in his receiving a ferry at aggressive prosecution in the united states district court for the commonwealth of massachusetts. mr. chairman, as a former federal prosecutor you know attorney-general eric holder's decision to they -- it is a game change. i am sure you are familiar with the intricacies involved in a capital case. as i reminded the capital committee as we fulfill our oversight responsibility we must be careful not to jeopardize federal prosecution. this applies in both the words that we speak to the public and the publications that stem from this committee. unfortunately some of the actions that extended from this committee have not been helpful to the department of justice. on march 25th, a majority staff report endorsed by a minority of

the members of this committee was released to the public. less than 48 hours after the report's release tsarnaev's defense team filed a motion in the united states district court savings this report. i reemphasize as members of congress especially members of the homeland security committee we are held to a-standard, we are trusted with classified and unclassified briefings and meetings with the members of the intelligence community and therefore the words we speak or publish about alleged terrorists transcend the halls of this congress and are not taken lightly by the public. furthermore, the events surrounding boston and other events pending investigations, reaching conclusions before facts are known for the

reputation of this committee at peril. us we must exercise discretion in our questioning and statements about suspects and links to others that may not be in custody. in spite of those limitations, mr. chairman, we can still use our platform to have a productive discussion of the boston marathon bombing and ask on outstanding matters. for example, we can and we should discuss the funding given to the first responder community. last year at the committee on homeland security's first hearing on the boston marathon bombing former commissioner david stated without grant funding, quote, the response would have been much less comprehensive than it was and without the exercise support through the ordinary a security initiative, there would be more people who died in these attacks. and professor leonard's testimony indicates this type of

preparedness is what makes first response effective. sergeant pugliese is testifying today that local municipal governments are not financially equipped to take on the increasing burden of these catastrophic attacks like boston. it is time we listened to the first responders and also take action. not after last year's hearing but throughout several congresses members heard about the importance of these grand programs and success stories involving them and accordingly i urge members to oppose the administration's proposal to ship focus away from supporting state and local efforts to develop terrorism related prevention and preparedness capabilities by morphing the homeland security grant program into an all hazards grant. i am not convinced the

administration's underfunded consolidation proposal would prove fraud sufficient support for first responders across america to build and maintain the capabilities necessary to respond as effectively as the first responders in boston and watertown did after the bombings last year. we learned from 9/11 that it is the local responders that are there on the scene and i cannot support any grand reform proposal until i am convinced it would provide the support necessary to maintain the terrorism preparedness capabilities that we have spent building for over at decade. also i agree with the chairman that we cannot ignore that information sharing between federal, state and local authorities. since september 11th, information sharing silos at the 9/11 commissioners reprimanded -- recommended be addressed continue to be exposed after tragic events.

we need to work together to develop ways to fix that problem as soon as possible and we must also consider the economic cost of terrorism. in response to the events of september 11th congress enacted the terrorism risk insurance act of 2002. that measure increased availability of terrorism risk insurance to at risk american businesses by guaranteeing the government would share some of the losses with private insurers should a terrorist attack occur at a building. that act is set to sunset this year. according to the rand corp. allowing this act to x by would harm our national security. last year, mr. thompson introduced a bill that would extend the act and ads and needed improvements and i urge my colleagues to co-sponsor that legislation. even though it has been almost a

year since the bombings, there have been some game changing moments and some ships are still anchored. as we continue to seek answers, i remind us to be responsible and to act within our constitutional boundaries. the people of boston are looking for leadership on this issue. i yield back the balance of my time and ask the this statement be put into the record. >> without objection so ordered. thank you ranking members and former federal prosecutor. i and the same legal status is very well and we do nothing to jeopardize as prosecution and members of congress understand our responsibilities and the commensurate's responsibilities for oversight and of the constitution of the united states. as recently quoted in the boston globe, quote, this shouldn't be about democrats and republicans. if you can't put that step behind you on an issue like this, then i don't know what you can. i couldn't agree more with the boston globe on that statement.

the chair now recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts who has had more impact than any other member of the committee, mr. keating to introduce today's witnesses. >> by way of introduction of want to realize that have us all realize it is almost a year to the day, april 15th, when we were all shocked in massachusetts and around the country at the news that the lives of four young individuals were taken and hundreds more were injured in the boston marathon. if i could in this introductory period, i would like to take a moment to remember and honor of the lives of crystal campbell, 29, sean collier, 26, lindsay blew, 23, and martin richard, 8.

there is no doubt boston's handling of the marathon attack will serve as a model for cities around the world on how to respond to mass homeland security incidents. for this reason it is important to look back and analyze the steps taken before, during and after the tragedy. we are honored today to have before this committee public safety officials from boston and watertown whose actions directly into heated further damage and loss of lives during the attack and in the days following. in that regard all of our witnesses today provide unique perspective on the best methods to increase our nation's resiliency, adaptability, transparency within the homeland security realm. our first witness, former boston police commissioner edward davis is currently with the john f. kennedy school of government at harvard university. mr. davis was appointed by another great leader during this period, former boston mayor

thomas meninno. he led the police chief harmon's response to the boston marathon bombing on april 15th. hero actions and quick thinking of the men and women under mr. davis adds leadership as well as that of the massachusetts national guard, ems service, medical personnel and indeed civilians led to the survival of 17 critically injured civilians. i have known mr. davis throughout his 34 years of law enforcement. he served on the local police department as superintendent to the police department in 1994. during this period he was recognized for reducing the up crime rate quicker than any other superintendent in the united states of america, with over 100,000 residents in cities of over 100,000 residents. thank you for your service and your service to the city of boston, the commonwealth and to our country. it is an honor to have you here today and we look forward to your testimony.

we also have join in the former commissioner, the chief of police at the watertown police department, mr. edward deveau. chief deveau sits on the executive board of the massachusetts chief of police association and played a crucial role during the manhunt for dzokhar tsarnaev. his leadership made national headlines, five of his officers found themselves in a battle that involve gunfire and homemade explosives on small streets in watertown. chief deveau, my pleasure to see you again. we are all grateful to your service and taking the time out of your busy marathon training to testify here today. finally, sergeant jeffrey pugliese is the second generation of watertown police officer, he also served in the u.s. army. you was born and raised in watertown, having been promoted to sergeant in 1993 he was on the night shift during the early

hours of april 19th, 2013, when he came to the assistance of his fellow officers. after a grueling exchange of fire, he came within six feet of tamleran tsarnaev and chased the suspect and tackled him to the ground leaving him time to rush those heard in the scene to the hospital. ..

>> i yield back. >> professor or leonard, thank you for being here today as well. kennedy school, my best to the faculty staff. i know you produced an excellent report and analysis of the boston bombing, and i look forward to reading that and sharing my thoughts with you. thanks so much for being here today. full written statements of the witnesses appear in the record -- will aear in the record. chair now recognizes commissioner davis for five minutes for an opening statement. >> [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] >> i came before you last may as

commissioner of the boston police department to offer my insight into the information sharing that occurred before and during the events of last april. i also came to you on behalf of the boston community and, specifically, four people whose voices could no longer be heard because of the attacks of these cowards. once again before i begin my remarks, i ask you to remember their lives. let my comments today reflect that none of us should ever forget four lives that were senselessly cut too short by the e -- events of that week. next tuesday amp will mark the one-year anniversary since two bombs were detonated on a historic stretch of a boston street that leads to one of the most inspirational sights an athlete can view, the finish line of the boston marathon. for the hundreds of victims wounded in the attacks, life has been altered. yet on a daily basis, we continue to see and hear the

inspirational stories of those victims, stories like that of adriana davis of boston, a professional dancer who returned to the stage last month despite losing part of her left leg in one of the explosions or jeff bowman, the iconic image of him being wheeled away by a good samaritan is emblazoned in our minds. he just announced he is engaged and will be a father soon. or the dozens of nurses and first responders taking their first marathon ever next week in honor of the victims whose lives they helped save. there are literally hundreds more stories that i could share with you, i just want to make sure none of them are lost to time as we examine the events that led up to the attacks and the days and weeks afterwards. i also want to speak on behalf of a community. not just the boston community or even simply metropolitan boston,

but the greater community at large. in the years since as i've traveled across this country, i've come to realize that rallied behind the boston strong mantra numbers in the unless because that is now how aggrieved our nation felt and how the innocents caught in the path of these explosions. in the weeks after last april's attack, many questions were raised about who knew what, when and what kind of information was being shared between law enforcement agencies. i'm here to tell you that the level of interagency cooperation and information sharing that has occurred between local, state and federal law enforcement agencies has been critical to insuring that we found ourselves answers to the many questions that have been posed. within the first few minutes of hearing about the explosions on boyleston street, my first phone call was to my friend and colleague rick at the fbi. he and i worked side by side throughout the ensuing week, and i consider him a staunch friend and ally. he offered all the services of

the fbi and other agencies to make sure we not only apprehended the terrorists, but also to the collaboration affords all our agencies the critical amount of information sharing needed for our organizations to operate at peak efficiency. what all of us learned in the end suing 12 months is just how big our community is. our law enforcement community is obvious. with me today are some of my colleagues from the neighboring watertown police department, and you'll hear from those heroes in a minute. the community where the manhunt came to an end and the community that found its neighborhoods under siege like never before in our country's history. boston police, watertown police, none of our agencies could have enjoyed the success we achieved without the involvement of a much larger community, one that felt personally victimized by the attacks. that is the community that has been come to be known as boston strong. in the past 12 months, boston strong has been used as a

rallying cry for an indomitable spirit. our hometown baseball team, the red sox, showed its tenacity and found inspiration from its message to win a world series. it came to personify our unexceptionable patriotism and commitment to neighbor helping neighbor. in new england we didn't just see it as a cliche hashtag on twitter, we see it as a proclamation that we stand together, united in the face of previously-unimaginable atrocities and determined to hold fast to our ideals and basic tenets of freedom. boston strong became an exclamation. by a community that wants the world to know that it can rally in the face of adversity and, armed with the necessary information, can work with its government partners to achieve a safe and desired outcome to a horrible and senseless act of violence. we came to our city a few days after the attacks, president obama told the world that boston

will run again, and he was right. we run to support the dreams and personal aspirations of every man and woman who will be lacing up their sneakers to complete the grueling course. we run for the ideals this kind of event brings our community together to celebrate everything that is great about our city, our state and our nation. and we run for the men, women and children who county be there this year, martin richard and officer sean collier. all of us -- boston, massachusetts, new england, the united states -- we run together. thank you. >> commissioner. chair now recognizes chief deveau for an opening statement. >> chair mccaul, it's an honor to come before you and your committee. thank you for the privilege of doing that. [inaudible] i'm extremely proud to be here today representing the men and women of the watertown police department. our goal has always been to be the best police department in massachusetts. mr. chairman, i had the privilege of meeting you and other members of your distinguished committee when you

traveled to boston and watertown. i want to thank you and your members who took the time to learn about how the watertown police department and community responded to the events of that day. before i speak about the actions of the watertown police department, i would like to give you some background on the events of last year. patriots' day is a special day in boston. it's my favorite weekend of the year. business and schools are closed in massachusetts for most people. spectators line the 26 miles of the boston marathon route into boston, cheering on the elite runners, but also the regular people who run, many of them run for charities. the boston red sox play at 11 a.m., and after the game all the fans walk down to the square and walk the final mile or two of the marathon. you haven't lived in boston very long if you haven't been a spectator, a volunteer or a runner. this year i will run with 12 of my officers. it's going to be an emotional day for my officers as we run that route and cross the finish line on boyleston street.

the boston marathon will be held inless than two weeks, and more people than ever want to be a part of it. they want to come together to celebrate and remember those who died and those who were injured in last year's explosions. they want to remember officer sean collier who was ambushed and killed before the two brothers headed to watertown. weave all seen what occurred on april 19th, and commissioner davis has spoke about that and how well, impressive his department responded that day. i am here today to talk about the events that occurred in watertown in the early morning hours of april 19th. that seemingly quiet overnight shift suddenly turned into a war zone. for the first time in america, police officers were attacked with guns and bombs, be and it happened on a quiet back street of my community. those two brothers were trying to kill my police officers and had plans to kill and injure more innocent people. the handful of watertown officers on duty that night

acted heroically and defended watertown without regard for their own personal safety. they displayed courage and bravery as they stubbornly defended our community. just as in boston, my officers were at their very best when confronted with the biggest challenge of their careers. their split second decisions and actions went far beyond their academy training, but i can assure you, mr. chairman, it will now be taught in academies across the country. it has been said before, but as police chief i want to state it again, the actions of my officers saved lives here in boston and in new york city. i want to introduce those officers, you've already done that, mr. chairman, but again, i would like to point out officer joe re folds who was the first officer to confront those two brothers. when we got notified in watertown, we didn't know it was related to the boston bombings, sean collier, and joe stopped that car and was immediately shot on. john mcclelland, who's sitting

behind him, was the next officer to come onto that street. got a round right through the windshield, and those two guys continued to fight on that back street of watertown. miguel colon and he tried to put a spotlight down the street, and he had trouble each getting out of his cruiser. your going to hear from sergeant pugliese and all the heroic things he did. mr. chairman, during these trying days last april, two individuals attempted to strike fear and take down a city. they attempted to terrorize us all n. the end, they accomplished nothing. they will never know what it is when america gets knocked down, we pick ourselves up and become even stronger. we will not be intimidated. watertown is stronger, boston is stronger, and in my opinion, the entire country is united and stronger. the strength and resilience and even defiance is what made boston strong, and i know if an attack occurs in another city

within our country, they will respond in a similar way. the watertown police officers on duty that night stopped these evil brothers from leaving with a car full of weapons to carry out their deadly plan. and the following 18 hours, our entire department of 65 officers was tested and worked around the clock to keep our community safe. we received unprecedented support from surrounding police departments and federal agencies. as a result, the second boston bombing suspect was finally captured. i want to thank the residents of watertown for their patience and cooperation that day and for their continuing support. it truly took an entire community. mr. chairman, when i began my comments today, i mentioned our goal was to be the best police department in the state, and and i'm not sure if we've reached that, but i can tell you one thing, for eight and a half minutes, we were the best damn police department in the world. mr. chairman, i conclude my remarks, and i'm happy to answer any questions you and your committee may have. thank you. >> thank you, chief, for that

compelling testimony. and, you're right, for eight and a half minutes, you were the best police department in the world. with that, the chair now recognizes sergeant pugliese for his testimony. >> morning. thank you for inviting me to speak here this morning. a little background myself, been a police officer for 34 years in the watertown police department -- >> is the mic on? the can the clerks help with the microphones at the witness table? >> is that better? okay. background on myself, been a police officer for 34 years in the town of watertown. prior to that i served in the u.s. army from 1974-'78 in the military police assigned to berlin, germany, in the berlin brigade. what happened that night is it was just after midnight. i'd finished my work shift when i heard a radio broadcast that officers from my agency were following an alleged carjacked

vehicle. i knew that the current shift had four patrol officers and a patrol supervisor on the street that night, and so i thought i would head up to assist the officers in the event that it became a pursuit or a foot pursuit or any assistance was needed. while end route to the area -- enroute to the area, i heard another broadcast that the officers were now taking gunfire from the occupants of the alleged carjacked vehicle, and they were requesting assistance. when i arrived on the scene, i heard gunfire, and within moments i heard an explosion. i advanced to the area where the other officers were taking cover and returning gunfire. the suspects were eventually taken into custody. i'm not really at liberty to go into minute detail into the incident, as one of the suspects is still awaiting trial, but i will endeavor to answer any questions you may have. i would like to make note that in today's ever-changing environment of violence, local,

municipal governments aren't financially equipped to take on the increasing burden of such hostile actions. in closing, i would like to say that all of the officers from the watertown police department, those officers that were there that night, they're ordinary guys who were put in an extraordinary situation and performed extraordinarily well. once again, thank you for inviting me to the speak at this hearing. >> thank you, sergeant. thanks for your act of heroism, taking down the biggest terrorists since 9/11. we appreciate what you did. chair now recognizes professor leonard for five minutes. >> i want to thank you for inviting me to testify, and my thanks also to congressman keating for his tireless work that has brought so much of the boston marathon set of issues to our attention. i'm honored to appear today with three of the genuine heroes of that week, commissioner ed davis, ed deveau and sergeant piewj lease and also to be together with all five of the

watertown police officers who gave such a great account of themselves in that gun with battle in those eight minutes when they were the best police force in the world. each of them will tell you that he is not a hero, but i feel very strongly today, and i think we all know, that we are in the company of here ooh rows. -- heroes. i'm dutch leonard, the professor and co-director of the program on crisis leadership at the kennedy school at harvard, and for the last year we've been doing research on the boston marathon bombing supported in part by the international center for sports security. this was a team effort from the beginning, and all of my colleagues were huge contributors to this. one of my co-authors, christine cole, is here with us today. the views i'm presenting are not the views of harvard or any other organization. our work was presented in horn and memory of those who lost their lives or suffered grievous injuries in the boston bombing, and it's dedicated to all those who helped. we focused on command and

coordination. others on our team are examining intelligence. our report, entitled "why was boston strong" was released last week. the title refers to the local description -- already referenced here -- boston strong of the resilience shown by first responders and by survivors and by the wider community during that week. my first message to the committee is about the first responder part of boston strong. incident command works. the national incident management system that this committee mandated in the homeland security act of 2002, section 502 part 5, is starting to work. before nims, first responders worked without an effective multiagency doctrine of how to combine in incident management. too many times we watched while vitally-needed capabilities were not effectively deployed, but instead were idled by a lack of ability to coordinate and execute across agencies, jurisdictional boundaries and

levels of government. nims is now starting to work, and boston strong is a good illustration of what can be achieved. we believe that the response in boston over the course of that week was as good as one could reasonably have hoped. so why were people and organizations able to be so effective? we found three answers. first, because senior commanders -- including ed davis and ed deveau -- were able to come rapidly together to form an effective joint command and coordination structure. second, that was not due to chance. it resulted from thousands of hours of joint planning, exercises and operations combining numerous agencies over many years in the planning for and production of fixed events. some of it funded through grants from the homeland security department. third, other communities can do this too. any community can engage in joint planning and execution for any major fixed event. paying your dues on good days builds the infrastructure of

interagency familiarity, respect and trust and has an immediate payoff. and if a bad day ever comes, as it did in boston, that infrastructure is literally a lifesaver. our research also suggested several areas where further work needs to be done, but if we had to choose just one thing to improve, it would be to add at the tactical level an effective doctrine for what we call micro command, the ability of people quickly to come together in an organized way. that would be in parallel to the national incident management system doctrine of macro command which allows the senior people to come together at the strategic level. my second message today to the committee is about the community part of resistance to terrorism which is, again, on display this year as my daughter and chief deveau and thousands of others train to to run in this year's marathon. boston strong encompasses what everyone did and does to stand tall and proud in the face of two murderous thugs with

terrorist intent. boston strong is not a form be of hubris or arrogance or peeve today, it is a form of pride and defiance and resilience. terrorists, in the end, are few and weak. they could never defeat us. but we could voluntarily surrender to them, and we must not. if we cower in fear, if we abandon our commitment to a free and open society, then we do their work for them. we cannot defend the american way of life as these five officers did that night by surrendering it. preserve, protect, uphold and defend. boston strong affirms the oath of office. boston strong says that we will defend the american way of life by continuing the participate in it. the community part of boston strong is a pretty good place to start in thinking about what resilience actually looks like. thank you, and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you, professor. and let me just say we are all,

we -- on that day we were all citizens of boston that day. and the way boston, the people responded, with resilience, with strength was truly inspiring, i think, to the nation. i'm wearing my boston strong pin to show my support and solidarity as well. so thank you for that. chair now recognizes himself for five minutes. commissioner davis, welcome back. >> thank you. >> you know, it's been almost a year as we come up on the anniversary. you know, they say a man's a true character is tested in a time of crisis, and, sir, your character really shined. you were a true leader, you were a calming influence for the nation, a comforting influence for the nation and -- in a very dangerous time of crisis. i can't think of a better man at a better time than you, sir. >> that's very kind of you.

i had a great team, mr. chairman. >> and i know i speak for all of us on this committee to say how much respect not only we have, but the nation, for your service and your dedication, and you will be remembered to for a very long time for that. you and i have talked quite a bit since that tragic day. your response efforts were heroic and brought an end to these terrorists who were on their way to times square. can you tell me in terms of lessons learned -- and, again, i don't want this to be a gotcha exercise. i never intended it to be that way. but i always think when something like this happens, we can always analyze and evaluate and determine what, if anything, we can do better to make sure this never happens again. can you tell me just personally from your background and experience from this event and your law enforcement background what are the real lessons learned from the boston bombing? >> well, mr. chairman, i'd like

to commend you for the work that you've done. congressman keating and all the members of the committee that have reviewed this. i've taken a good, long look at the report that came out, and i think that the recommendations that are broken down into four categories in the report are really the best steps to take to deal with the, with any shortcomings that were identified. there's nothing in there that can't be accomplished fairly simply. those recommendations will cause a more comprehensive and effective system to protect our nation to be put in place, and i think, i think that those should be followed. >> i appreciate that. i think that -- and as i said in my opening statement, pleased to see the fbi has began to implement these relations along with the -- these recommendations along with the d. of homeland security. that's oversight, i think, at

its best. and thank you again for your service, sir. chief deveau, you and i have talked about the tragic events that year but also the acts of heroism on the part of you and your officers. sergeant pugliese, in taking down one of the biggest terror threats since 9/11. what i was interested to, maybe surprised to find out that once he was taken down, you weren't each quite sure who this person was and after the fact learned he was, indeed, the boston bomber. can you tell me -- you and i talked about this and, you know, hindsight's 20/20, but would it make sense to include local police departments in the boston community or in any community when something like this happens, when a terrorist attack occurs, after the event occurs to bring in the local police departments in the area for briefings and for participation with the joint terrorism task force? >> thank you, mr. chairman.

yes, i do think so. i believe that, you know, watertown, a 65-man department, you know, boston has all the resources, the big cities have that. but watertown kind of represents most police departments across the country. we have limited resources, and it doesn't make sense for us to have somebody at the jttf on a full-time basis. but when something like this happens in my community or in any community across the country, we need to have access to that table and be brought into it, be updated and play a role there. and i think some of the recommendations that you're making in your report touch on that. we needed to have a seat right away, and there were obstacles we had to do before we could. so i think there can be improvement and your committee's help in making that happen, and i appreciate -- >> i appreciate your insight on that. i think that's a potential be, future recommendation that local police departments be brought into these crisis situations so you can possibly identify the suspect before rather than after

the fact. but, again, i just want to commend you ander sergeant pugliese and all the officers behind you for one of the biggest acts of heroism. you are correct, for eight and a half minutes you were the best police department in the world, and i would still argue that you are a great police department, and thanks for your great leadership. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> my time's expired. chair now recognizes the ranking member, ms. sanchez. >> thank you, mr. chairman. commissioner davis and chief, following the september 11 attacks, the department of homeland security developed the national incident management system, nims, to improve the ability of first responders to coordinate multijurisdictional response efforts. how have federal grants enabled response organizations to implement nims, and would reductions to or changes to the structure of our federal homeland security grant programs such as uwasi, etc., you know,

what the administration is suggesting is we clump everything together in an all-hazard thing versus the different programs that we've set up. do you feel that the approach by the administration is correct? would it harm you if we did it that way? etc., etc. >> i can tell you from experience that the programs as they are set up have been very effective, and our ability to coordinate with other agencies, our ability to train on the nims system and to game it out on tabletops and in real life situations when we were dealing with the sports victories and things like that in boston, that all, that money all comes from our homeland security grants and uasi funding. the other thing that we have is the equipment that's necessary to respond to something like this. before the uasi program, our equipment was antiquated and not

up to the task. when we were called to service that day, we had exactly what we needed to go in and clear the neighborhoods and do the work that had to be done in watertown to catch these guys. so i think the program as it exists works very well. >> [inaudible] >> i would agree with the commissioner's comments. you know, in watertown we don't get as much funding as boston, nor should we. but watertown partners with 50 communities that surround boston -- >> so you're in a uasi together? >> yes. >> like in my area i have two grant recipients, santa ana and anaheim, two large cities, but they work through the localized police departments to make sure that everybody is buying things that everybody can interoperablely use, you know? i don't need a s.w.a.t. team, but if we need the situation, you've got the right stuff over there. is that the way you do it with

your 50 jurisdictions? >> that's exactly right. it makes no sense for watertown to buy a s.w.a.t. team or, but it doesn't make sense for me to have a s.w.a.t. team, but it makes all the sense in the world for us to have a s.w.a.t. team of all of those commitments to have the armored vehicle and equipment so that we can respond. so watertown was able to participate along with boston and the state police and the national guard and participate and be able to protect our own community. so those grants went a long way. the training that goes on, you can't, you know, you can never prepare for what happened in watertown, but training makes police officers professional, and training, training, training. we need to do that to be able to perform when we're challenged like we were in watertown. >> i think my police departments are very concerned about all of this being lumped into one line item and also reduced, by the

way. whenever we consolidate programs into one line item, we generally also reduce at the same time the amounts of money available. so that makes it difficult. thank you, gentlemen. i also have a concern about the harvard white paper on boston marathon bombings identified communication to the public ans incredibly -- an incredibly important issue. particularly in the light of this 24-hour cycle, everybody's trying to put something up, all the rumors that go, all the things that fly, you know? and then get repeated and repeated, and everybody, you know, america gets scared or is incensed or whatever, dose on social immediate -- goes on social media, you know? things that we in the congress face every day, but for a jurisdiction that all of a sudden has a real crisis on its hands can be difficult. can you tell me, is, have there -- have you had -- well, what have you done?

what did you learn from that experience, and have you set up different protocols of how you share information, what you say to community, what you say to the public? how have you dealt with that? what are the lessons that we can learn from that? >> we at the boston police department had a significant presence on social media prior to the event. and i don't think you can have an event and then try to the stand up a twitter or facebook account. you really have to understand how that works. and in the years before the april 15th bombing, we used twitter to -- and facebook -- to get information out. we don't even do press releases anymore, we just post it on social media. >> really? >> the press hon to haves our social media -- honors our social media account. what's good about that not only do we speak one way, not only can we send information out to the public and to the media, but a dialogue exists on social media. so we're actually able to

understand how people are -- >> reacting? >> -- reacting to what we're saying and whether we're getting the real message across that we wanted to get across. it's a very, very effective means of getting information out to people quickly and effectively in a crisis. there were no cell phone usage, the cell phones shut down at the marathon because of overuse. >> use, yes. we saw that on 9/11 also. >> exactly. so we were able to revert to social media and get messages out to people. for instance, who were trying to find loved ones after the event. to the tell them where to go and what to do. it's a very, very effective means of communicating with people and speaking back and forth to them. that dialogue's really critical. >> commissioner, and i also want to hear from the chief if you'll indulge me, mr. chairman, if the chief -- and then i have another, just a little follow-up question -- >> i'll be brief. i think the boston police department did an incredible job

about getting the news out and getting reliable information out. i think that when the media came in, there was so much misinformation, and i think people relied on the boston police department to get it straight on those four days. in watertown we have, we had to notify our residents at 2:00 in the morning to shelter in place, and we had a communication system where we could put that notification out encouraging people to shelter in place, notify their neighbors, and that worked as well. but boston really assisted us as the manhunt went on all day long to make sure the residents in greater boston were getting the right information through the social media. >> will just a quick -- do you think that other agencies, other police departments are as advanced as you are, commissioner, and, for example, not even using the traditional media, but going and putting your press releases out? >> no. there are very few, there are very few departments that do that. but i think it's becoming more and more of a realization among my colleagues and the major city

chiefs that this is something that they should invest time in. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> i want to associate myself with the are remarks with respect to the response training. the fall before the bombing, the boston first responders had an emergency response training exercise that was funded with homeland security grant dollars, and i know that made a big difference in saving lives that fateful day. >> there's no question. >> with that, chair now recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. king. >> thank you, mr. chairman. let me at the outset thank you and congressman keating for the outstanding work you've dope on this report -- done on this report, time and effort you put into it, to me, represent the very best of what a committee should be doing, especially when we have such a topic as this which can enflame emotions, where there can be distortions. the fact that the two of you worked so well in bringing out this product, i'm proud to be on the committee with you. commissioner davis and chief deveau, sergeant pugliese, i

want to commend you for your heroic efforts that week. professor leonard, i bring the best wishes of the fdny who's worked with you over the years and thanks you for all the assistance you've given to the fdny. first of all, i'm not just here to give tribute to you, i'm a friend of yours, i have a great admiration for you, but i think the calm and confidence you projected was absolutely essential. in addition to that, i thought the fact that within moments of the bombing happening how you were able to call everything into place; securing the site, getting the ambulances. everything that had to be done was done, and, chief deveau, your men had no idea this was going to happen and and within minutes were involved in gunfights for their lives and for the citizens of boston. how much training is put in every year? obviously, you can prepare, but you can't prepare. you have to have as many contingencies as possible and i guess hope for the best, and

when it happens, all of that can be put to good use. how much training goes on in the course of a year? how much training would you put into trying to provide for contingencies like this? >> we try the train as much as we can all the time. i think some of the best training that my d. got with the regional team working with boston. whenever those championship parades or the celebrations took place each going back to the democratic national convention that was in boston a number of years back, we always worked with them. so that's kind of almost, if you will, a training in itself, that we go in and help them. so we support them. but we train all the time, our units train kind of with boston, with the state police trying to do that. and i think, you know, it kind of looks like a sports team. a sports team practices, practices, practices to get request it right on game day, and that's what we need to do. we need to train, train, train to be sure we're able to do that. dollars are limited, it's hard

to do, but i think we try to put it in the right ways, the money that we do get federally and, you know, with ed davis' leadership, i think we've done a great job of the greater boston area of working together and having that work. and that unified command of everybody doing it that particular day was based on all the training that we've done be the cities -- done with the cities and towns around boston, with boston. >> so there was a very specific training that occurred in the year prior to the marathon where we put a mumbai-style attack scenario together. and we used uasi money to fund a full day -- actually, it was a couple of days of training. we took over several different venues in the city and played out what would happen if there were multiple attacks on the city. that was the first time we had engaged the medical people into the training.

so that was called operation you urban shield. it was very effective because it got the medical people lined up with us, and when we went to the hospitals and had to take over some of the emergency rooms because there were potential suspects there, i think because we had done training with them beforehand, it went much more smoothly. that same year we had done a home toland security training that came in through dhs. so two huge trainings in addition to a continual process of training for our s.w.a.t. teams that happens routinely. >> commissioner, if i could ask you, we've already gone over the issue of the information not being shared before the event, and that's been discussed and, apparently, being addressed. but also coming from new york, i was struck by the fact that dzhokhar when he was being interrogated in the hospital, that's when it came out about times square. the nypd and nobody in new york was told about that by the fbi. at that time, no one knew those two brothers were the only two involved.

it could have been a conspiracy, and yet new york was not told about it, and commissioner kelly first learned about it two or three days later. he called me up and asked me why i didn't want tell -- i didn't tell him about it. what is the -- going toward the future, what is the protocol if you do find a possible additional attack that's being planned? should that police department be notified? it could have been philadelphia, it could have been anyone along the atlantic can coast there. >> i really think that we maybe being, holding this information too closely in the interest of prosecution our, you know, having justice be the only, be the only thing that we think about because in addition to justice there is the issue of public safety. and allowing people to get systems in place if there is a wilder conspiracy. so -- wider conspiracy. so i really, you know, our

system so spokesfocused on -- focused on close hold and maintaining evidence for the prosecution. and that's certainly, you know, the right thing to do. but i think that singular focus must be tempered with, with the overall safety and security of the community. >> of course, for all we knew at that moment, there could have been another attack planned in a -- >> i understand commissioner kelly's concern. >> okay. thank you, commissioner. let me just say about chief deveau, like others on the committee i was up in watertown to find out exactly what happened, he stood in the pouring rain for an hour which was above the beyond the call of duty. [laughter] maybe you can get line of duty disability for that. [laughter] thank you for coming. thank you. >> i thank the gentleman. chair recognizes the gentleman from presidents, mr. keating. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i would like to ask you unanimous consent to clarify for the record in ms., congressman

sanchez's statements that it was dzhokhar tsarnaev is the pommer is federal -- bomber in federal custody. >> without objection, so ordered. >> thank you, mr. chairman. like so many other people i wondered what the motivations behind the attack were, how it came to be and how it could be prevented in the future. because of that, it took me to russia two times to try and get some information to see if there was a link between the north caw cay sis region, dagestan and chechnya and if there was any connection for the motivations of this. in the course of doing that, i learned that authorities here in the u.s., the fbi and later the cia, were given detailed information about tamerlan tsarnaev through russian security services. and pursuing this information back home, i did encounter some frustration with our own federal agencies in that regard.

there's a real concern about information sharing across the board, but there's an obvious multiplier benefit in sharing information. the testimony before this committee this year we were told that there's roughly 800,000 local police that could be utilized in this effort, and there's about 14,000 fbi agents. and one of the sensitivities behind the lack of information sharing, at least i've found as a da, is the concern that as you spread information among even law enforcement sources, there could be leaks. and that's that in addition. i'd like to ask all of you, to me, in your jobs right now people's lives are in danger, and you already hold very sensitive information that if that information were released in your own communities, people could be in danger. so could you comment on how you maintain that confidentiality every day and how, i think,

there's a greater risk in not sharing that information with local police authority? >> well, since 9/11 police chiefs around the nation have received secret and top secret clearances so that they can be involved in the conversation around, around these issues. and the intent of that was to make sure that there was wider distribution, wider spreading of the type of information that would be helpful to ed and watertown and to myself when i was in boston. and so i think that the intent is really good, and i think people have recognized that it should be the way it works. but when you're dealing with such large organizations over a period of time, sustaining change is difficult. that elastic band tends to pop back to where it was. so besides having good intentions and having good

policies, there has to be a constant testing that it's, in fact, working, and i i think that's where we need some work. >> yeah. chief, did you have. >> >> yeah, i i would agree. depending on what the intelligence is, it needs to get down to our level. i mean, it's our officers who are on the street acting, and there's value added. there could be more information that they're not aware of that the officers behind me are all aware of, and we could share information. and i think we have to continue to build that trust and move forward and use this as an example to get better. >> yeah. i had another question. during the whole course of this, this committee has tried to really have a continuum of what happened before with initial information, what happened during the attack, what happened afterwards. and i think this committee's done very well to fill in all those areas. there is an area that i still have questions about, and i want to learn about this if

particularly former commissioner davis could be helpful in this regard, because there's an area i just want to see procedurally what was going on. and i think we could do that without jeopardizing anything, frankly, at all. there was a "60 minutes" segment just recently, there was a broad -- that was broadcast nationally about the marathon bombing and the fbi's response put into play for that. and i learned for the first time in that segment that the images that ended up being the images of the suspects, those images were available on wednesday. and furthermore, i recall on wednesday there was a press conference that was announced for a national audience, i believe at the boston police station or wherever it was being held x. then at the last minute that was canceled. now, could you shed light on what was the nature of that press conference being called

and why it was canceled, and if there's some procedures in that period that took place or some steps to fill in that blank period i have. >> we did have the photographs on wednesday, and there was a press conference scheduled, but at that point in time the fbi had taken jurisdiction of the case, so they were making the decisions on when the press conferences would be or not. there was a desire among everyone at the table to be out front on this as often as possible, but at that particular juncture i think there was a decision made somewhere above me that would not be a press conference. but that was between the fbi and the justice department people. >> and you don't know the -- >> i don't know the -- >> -- reasoning behind that -- >> i have is no idea. >> -- or what happened in that 24-hour stretch before there was another press conference. >> right. >> to me -- and thank you for

being that candid. to me, that just goes to show one more time that maybe there should be more information sharing at all times during this too, because i would have thought whatever that period, whatever was going on during that period be, -- period, frankly, the boston police should have known what was going on. i will just yield back my time, mr. chairman. appreciate that. >> mr. keating. chair recognizes mr. king for the purpose of entering a question into the record. >> first, i want thed the fdny has just asked me to ask you this question. it's an issue they've worked on with you. you mentioned the idea of micro command as an issue that needs to be better addressed in the nims system. what exactly did you mean by that, and why is it important? if you could submit a written answer to that, i'd be very appreciated. >> happy to do that. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> i thank you, mr. chairman, and i thank each and every one of these distinguished guests

for being here today. in addition to the way you've responded in the past with all of your officers, i know, sergeant, you were talking about chief deveau. you're going to run in this next marathon. and the idea that it's not how we responded in the past, but the resolve to demonstrate to those who want to create terror in our commitments, that it's -- in our communities, that it's not going to happen, and the idea that the nurses and the other officers are going to run 22 miles in a marathon is a commitment in addition. so thank you for doing that. and also i want to touch on this thing that peter mentioned, because i think -- and i appreciate the professor's focus on this -- the concept of incident command was really a significant achievement. i know it's something that's practiced, but as a former prosecutor, i appreciate that while you were responding, chief davis, you were doing two things. the first and foremost you were responding to make sure that people who were injured were

safely evacuated. it was remarkable that within a half an hour those people whose lives could have been lost were in trauma centers being taken care of. but at the same time, you were securing an incredible crime scene. and that's the very substance of the information that becomes, subsequently, the evidence with chain of custody and other kinds of things. so the whole -- that are necessary for the prosecution we're trying to protect. so i appreciate the concept of chain of command. but there really are two questions, and peter asked one of them, and i'd be interested in having the two chiefs and professor, if you have a moment. when you were making decisions and in that chain of command -- and there were a couple of different kinds of things. there was a distinction between policy decisions and procedural decisions. and that's where you get the command structure includes. those of you who know the policy or the procedures about how to secure a crime scene, how to

keep a community safe, how to respond and put your officers in. but there's also questions. you made a determination to release the photographs of the two individuals. you made a determination to shut the city down for a period of time to secure watertown. a remarkably courageous political decision. if you can discuss how you distinguished between the two and how you worked with sometimes political officials that may not have the same sort of background. and then you were talking about -- and, professor, you focused on this micro, and that was these officers who were responding to the scene. and they come, and the unit in watertown knows each other. but in small communities, you know, it could be the next town over, reading or, you know, everett or somebody. the officers are coming in x they a don't work with these guys -- and they don't work with these guys. how do you create a structure where people are rushing into a scene and the concept of being able to create an effective

response? i think we've got after action assessments of those kinds of things, and they're all good lessons learned. so if you can talk about that policy piece, chiefs and professor, if you want to take a moment to talk about the issue of the micro, i think it would be helpful for all of us. >> the procedural piece, and these are very astute observations, congressman, i appreciate you asking these questions. the procedural piece was fairly much laid out for us through our practicing and through our dealing with homicides, some multiple homicides that occur in the city day in and day out. we are frequently called to the scene where people are badly injured, multiple people have been shot. our first respondent is to -- responsibility is to save lives and get them out as quickly as possible and get them the medal attention they need -- medical attention they need. but very quickly after that, and it happens very fluidly, the

crime scene gets locked down. this particular crime scene was complex because there was the distinct mobility there was a third device there. so we were not only locking the scene down to preserve evidence, but to preserve the lives of the first responders. we had everybody leave the scene, leave the field until the bomb squad could do their work. but it becomes very methodical at that point in time. in the 18 minutes it took us to clear the victims very quickly after that, a process was put in place, eod clearing and then evidence collection. and one of the first things that we did was tell our technical people to start to collect videotape. that videotape played an important role in, could down te road. but as for the policy decisions, the mayor left the hospital and came to scene at the command post. he was joined there by governor patrick. and so our job as police

officials, myself, the colonel from the state police, rick delore ya from the fbi, was to give the political officials enough information so that they could get information out to the public and calm fears, but also make decisions around big political issues like the closing down of the, of the transit system. you know, our role was to be advisers. we advise, we told people, we told our elected officials exactly what we had, and at the time that the decision was made to shut down the transit, there were a series of events that were playing out that gave people the idea that there could very well be a broader conspiracy with other people involved. and so there were courageous decisions made, but it was based on the best information that we had. we provided that to the elected officials, and they did their job. >> professor, my time is up, but

maybe you can jump into that because you have an appreciation for both that aspect plus the policy decisions as well as the micro piece. >> congressman, like commissioner davis, i think you're focused on the most important question here. and my message is don't take incident management for granted. it's not an accident. it takes a lot of work to build, and it's incredibly important. and what's important about it is it facilitates the command and coordination across multiple agencies. inevitably, the capabilities we need for these big, horrible, messy events are going to be in multiple agencies, and they should be. the challenge is how to bring those collectively and creatively together effectively in the moment, and that's harder than it looks. it's not self-executing, and it is not a natural act for those agencies to do it. so it has to be practiced in advance, it has to be worked on and developmented. and you pointed out all three levels. there's the political interface with the strategic operational. so the governor and the mayor interacting with commissioner davis, with chief deveau and

other operational officials to figure out are we going to shut down the city, are we going to -- the release of the photographs is actually a more tactical kind of issue, but that political issue is enormously important, and the national incident management system is silent on this question of how that's supposed to work. so that's an area we need further work. that's the macro level of command and coordination. the my row level is what sergeant piewj lease brought to the scene because he's naturally part of a system in which there is command and in which the officers know each other. that's in contrast to the dozens of other officers who showed up from many different departments at the same moment or a little bit thereafter, mostly after the gunfight was over, at dexter and laurel. they didn't have a natural tactical command structure, and we need to work on that. that's what i mean by micro command. so we need to continue to work on the coordination and command at all different levels remembering this is the most important assets, and it's not a natural thing to happen by itself, and it requires enormous

amounts of work and development and practice ahead of time. and we can do this, but we need -- i think for me the most important lesson of this whole experience is that any community can do this, but not every community has done this, and we need to keep at that. because boston strong and the incident management on display in boston shows what can be done, but we shouldn't assume that it's now universal. we need to keep working on that. so thank you for asking the question, it's an excellent -- >> well, before i yield back i just want to say it's frustrating as a philadelphia fan to have to realize you get all this practice because you have all these victory parades -- [laughter] patriots and everybody. >> win the series, and you can practice too. >> thank you. will[laughter] >> ouch. >> chair now recognizes mr. payne. >> thank you, mr. chairman. commissioner davis and chief deveau, you know, the administration is proposing to consolidate the homeland security programs including uasi and the state homeland security

grant program, you know, into one pool. you know, based on the testimony heard here and some of the comments in the ranking member thompson's statement, quite a few of us are concerned about that prospect. and under the proposal, you know, grantees would no longer be required to dedicate 25% of their grant awards to law enforcement and terrorism prevention. do you have concerns about the proposed on consolidation in reference to those grants? >> congressman, i do. i think that the program as it's set up is working very well, and i don't -- i'm not briefed in on the exact idea on the change. but if it results in a reduction in overall money, i think it's problematic. >> right. and, you know, as congresswoman sanchez stated, sometimes in

those consolidations, you know, the amount of the dollars are drawn down as well. consolidated. so that is, you know, a grave concern to quite a few of us on this committee and throughout the congress because we know how those, the uasi and those grant programs have been exceptional especially in an area such as mine, i'm from north new jersey, and i have the port authority, i have the port, the rail, the airport. so the uasi grant has been phenomenal for us in that area. let's see. chief deveau, would you like to mention, make a statement in reference to that? because it says that it would no longer require to dedicate 25% of those grants to law enforcement and terrorism prevention activities, and that's what our concern is. money could be deviated for

reasons other than those. >> congressman, i agree with the commissioner. i think the current system's working, and i think, you know, boston's an example of it working very well, and i think it should stay in place. >> okay. basically, i will yield back in the interest of time. >> appreciate that. thank you, mr. payne. the chair now recognizes mr. swalwell from california. >> thank you, chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today. and i also, as my colleagues have noted, stand with boston and commend you for your work. and, commissioner, you and i spoke before at this hearing and i pointed out that it was urban shield training that your force had gone through first in alameda county, which i have the privilege of representing, but also an exercise that you held yourself. i wanted to bring to the

witnesses and the committee's attention that a year later we still, i believe, face threats from terrorists whether abroad or individuals in the united states, rogue actors who may be influenced by publications on the web or that they receive and able to use materials that are readily available at different stores. and i was disturbed to read and learn in the most recent edition of al-qaeda's arabian peninsula publication "inspire," there is a picture of a young person sitting in a tram which is used at san francisco's international airport, and the english translation with this perp sitting in the tram says: "for how long will you live in tension, instead of just sitting

having no solution, simply stand up, pack your tools of destruction, assemble your bomb ready for detonation." .. "inspire" magazine at all issue devoted to the tsarnaev brothers. this kind of extremist propaganda on the internet, if it's not countered with

something, does tend to create problems for us. we actually are talking about this at the kennedy school right now trying to get college students engaged in putting proper information out on the web to really fly in the face of what these extremists are putting out there as the truth. but it goes beyond that. when you see that type of picture in there, when you read about the attacks on the infrastructure, around the transformers in california that were sniped at, it's hard to figure what is real and what isn't real in this area and we need to be vigilant. it's clear there is a threat and when he to really be aware of it and to do everything we can as a nation to stop it from happening.

>> commissioner, knowing that at least in his most recent publication, the san francisco area is that they could -- is depicted in this al-qaeda publication, what do you think that would mean for local law enforcement and federal law enforcement, what do you think they would need to do to coordinate efforts with the resources we provide our resources you think me in the future need to be provided? >> the great thing about our country is that each of the police department has that responsibility and i'm sure the officials in san francisco are looking very closely at this threat. but you just need to be vigilant. that's clearly what needs to happen. i'm sure there are a series of inquiries that are occurring around us and what can be done to tighten up the system. that would just make more sense. >> and just to follow up on mr. payne's, my colleague from new jersey, questioning, is eager position, commissioner, you would prefer a grant system

through homeland security that is not consolidated as is being proposed? he goes as you know, urban shield and other exercises are funded through specific grant and that could be threatened should consolidation take place. >> make no mistake, the program works because it goes right to the cities. the problem is a gets watered down wages diverted to the state, and so, yeah, i think that's my concern. >> thank you, commissioner. yield back the balance of my time. >> the chair recognizes ms. clarke from new york. >> from new york. >> thank you very much mr. coburn. and i think our witnesses for bringing their experiences to bear as we sort of reflect on the response in light of the boston bombings. i was a new yorker. i am a new yorker and was a member of the new york city council during the 9/11 event.

and had jurisdiction in the council over the rebuilding of the fdny. and so my question really comes to how well we have institutionalized mims. my first question goes to professor leonard. in your report you mentioned the response agencies should develop procedures and practices to better control self-employment. and that's something that we new yorkers routinely unaware of in the 9/11 event. can you provide some best practices for the types of procedures quacks and how do you suppose that self-employment tactics may be warranted in certain situations to prevent immediately threats of death and destruction? how do we strike that balance? is there a necessity to sort of create some space in the

protocol to address that? >> thank you, congresswoman. i think that goes exactly to the issue that we're trying to raise in the report. self deployment that happened in watered down. there's also a lot of dispatched, many offices from many other areas were told that they should go. but when they got there that didn't mean that any natural command structure to join. in waterton. so the watertown police department is very organize in his response. i think to some extent self deployment is inevitable in some of the circumstances and it's not message on a bad thing. it's not we're trying to prevent that. the question is in the presence of self-employment, when you have people all rising in a confused situation, in sequence because it don't argue that the same moment, what should they do. we don't have very good doctrine about that. we have lots of doctrine about how you can organize at the senior level and the senior officials who arrived to do.

they arrived in watered down in the middle of the night. chief deveau found commissioner davis and several others and they began to form a command structure at the watertown mall. that at the senior level that is what working or it's at the tactical level we don't have a doctrine, which veteran. we can expect them to know each other before but we might able to develop some protocols for how they could combined so that we get something a little bit more organized. the referenced standard is not that they should be able to be like a college drill team and a halftime show. but they could become able to provide some doctrine so that they could through training and knowing how to use those protocols -- protocols, establish a summit more organized response somewhat more quickly. in watertown, senior police officials on some of those incidents seems were able to eventually get things organized but it took a little longer than we might like everything we could devote protocols that could help do that faster.

>> chief deveau, from your experience, you know, what would you take from your experience as to how we can best manage just the information of law enforcement and first responders to create, yeah, there's an inclination, people are just going to come knowing what it means to their jurisdiction, their time, their people, their families. what would you say would be something that we could move closer to creating to manage a circumstance like that? >> thank you, congresswoman. i think first of all you mentioned nims. nims has worked. the unified command we had in watertown worked very well. has been pointed out at the command level it worked because we've all been together. ed davis and i've known each other for about 15 years so when he came walking down the backstreet of watertown in the middle of the night he ended up

being shoulder to shoulder for the next 18 hours and there was complete trust between the. as a police commissioner showed up, the colonel from the state police anybody like that. i think there is a bit of disconnect when you get down to another level with other departments traditional from various cities and towns. we don't train currently for them to start working together. and if he went to go back and look at that in our academies that when there is somebody of leadership, a sergeant or lieutenant honestly regardless of what town or city is from, if he ease, or she'd come into the highest-ranking person in that area, then they have to have the knowledge and the ability to take control. we really don't do that well now and i think it's one of the lessons, the takeaways i see in a lot of people making the watertown that we needed a better job in self deployment. we needed them but we need them to work record together and better together. >> could you want to add anything to that? >> just briefly.

i think that ed is correct that at the micro level, dutch's observations are exactly right. more work needs to be done there. we changed our doctrine after columbine. our protocols before columbine were to secure the area and wait for the swat team to arrive. columbine talk as we don't have the luxury more. -- taught us. they are trained to put together a contact team and to go in and address the threat. what we haven't done is come to the realization that that contact team may comprise officers from several different agencies, so but because when the call goes out everybody response. so how that team is structured and who's in charge of the team, that's sort of the nuts and bolts of this i think. >> thank you. i yield back, mr. chairman. >> chair recognizes mr. deutch.

>> thank the chairman for the committee hearing -- mr. duncan. the actual committee for the hearing on the. i was appreciate you bringing up a little moment of silence for the fort hood shooting and we stand with texas just as we stood with boston last year. i will say for the record that the red sox are my al team. i am a braves and national same, but as mr. keating and i talk about from time to time, i do like the sox. you know, one thing after reading the report, mr. chairman, it kept coming back to me that the term still biting, failure of sharing information across so many lines that came out after 9/11 and how glaring that it is today. the report points out that the information was there if the dots were connected, if information was shared.

i remember the testimony from commissioner davis last year about if the jttf, your officers had been informed and would've had the ability to do a little more research, maybe this tragedy would've been prevented. and so we hear a lot on this committee about lessons learned. dog gone it, i'm tired of just learning the lessons. we've got to start applying those lessons. i mean, if we will do away with the stove piping, as a government, as agencies like the fbi or composed of dhs, willing to admit that they are not a thief them and they can't control the information they did realize they can't be everywhere. node we want law enforcement to be everywhere. if they were rely on the boston police, the watertown police, the elements in my state whether it's the county sheriff or local city police or whether it's the state law enforcement division, if that information can be more

readily shared, i believe we could operate more tragedies. -- over to more tragedies. i do want to see you two years about how this came conversation about we had all the information but we failed to connect the dots and failed to let the folks that are closest to the situation at the know about the potential threats. because of it -- because government is large and cumbersome. it response to a lot of things. where the flexibility and true ability lies is on the ground with the guys who can actually ask the questions of the people in the local supermarkets or that -- or the churches. i will say there's unquestionably been significant progress in the 13 years since 9/11 on the issues of the barriers, the walls, the stove piping and things that are inhibiting information sharing. fall partnership is necessary. commissioner davis, i know you're not in your role as you

were this time last year but from your perspective, could you share with the committee why you believe these barriers remain, or if they do remain or maybe i'm off base on that. >> i think we've come a long way. i think the directors and the commanders -- tremendous job to address these issues. i had a conversation with chairman mccaul last night but it appears as though we're moving in the right direction but the recommendations that this committee has come up with are exactly where we should be going to make this a more concrete instance system. but if those recommendations are now pointing to a federal code somewhere, simply that, recommendations. if congress in its wisdom sees these things at good things, then it should be codified so that the system has to operate that way. police agencies at every level follow the law. if that's the law that's what they will do. and so that rubber band snapping back we talked about yesterday, a little earlier, has, it makes

it impossible to do that. the other thing i want to mention is, this is a story of numbers. if there are less than 20,000 federal agents, fbi agents come working on the issue of terrorism and there are 600,000 local police officers, we are a force multiplier. that has to be a recognition on the part of all agencies that you for going to have a comprehensive -- after the ability to work in the uk and other police agencies in other countries where there is a system from top to bottom. and that really should be our model so that everybody is working together and everybody recognizes this isn't my ball. it's basically it's everybody's responsibility. >> let me ask you, wasn't that the original purpose of the jttf? >> yes and i think the fbi came 90 yards down the field by

establishing the jttf. but i think there was some bureaucracy that prevented it to go over the goal line. i think we are right there right now. those recommendations push it over the goal line. >> i sit innocent of watch live football games. i'm a former football player. i enjoyed the sport. one thing that frustrate me sitting in the stands is what i see the coach run the ball up the middle over and over and over and they're getting a yard, guard and a half when maybe around outside or throwing a pass, and around kosovo that would be were affected. the fans around me are hollering at the coach, why are you running the ball up the middle again? so sitting in the stands here and looking at the jttf concept, looking at the failures that were pointed out in this report, i hope the coach so to speak reads this. i hope we don't continue running the ball up the middle and getting that yard and half are getting down to the golan and not being able to get across.

we don't need 99%. 100% gets us across the goal line. we learned from those lessons. we apply those lessons and we keep america safe. i hope they listen to you. i open and listen to all you guys that were involved in this. i hope they all read the report, the ones that can make the decisions. mr. chairman, you're doing a great job in pointing this out, laying out the roadmap, and we have a responsibility and i think we're doing a good job of telling the respected agencies where we need to go, laying out the direction, but not just laying them out. cranking the car up and helping them proceed down the road. so i thank you for that. thank you, guys. god bless you. a godless massachusetts, the folks in boston, all the victims and families and may god continue to bless america because america was with boston that day. with that i will yield back. >> let me just close by saying, having worked with the joint task force, they do good work. it's a good model. works 99% of the time.

we have to be right 100% but in this particular case i think there were some things fell through the cracks, but it's our job not to make people feel bad about that and see how we can do that in the future. so we don't have one of these events again. these one or two men operations are very, very difficult to detect and disrupt your that is the new evolution of terrorism, of al-qaeda, radical extremists. and that is what we need to start. and i do as commission and davis said, i do want to commend the new fbi director comey for ushering and i think a new era at the fbi, a model of cooperation. i've talked to about the state and local cooperation. i think state and locals are of great force multiplier to an agency that is very resource strapped. the locals know the streets.

they are the eyes and ears on the ground. it makes perfect sense and i think it's indicative that one of the first things director comey did was to bring police chiefs to the table to en to ina memorandum of understanding with the police chiefs so that the police chiefs likely know what the authors are doing on the jttfs pay because that wasn't happening in this case. that needs to cha i think director comey's emphasis of that, i know that his chief of staff is a big state and local fan. i look forward to i think a new era which i think will protect americans ultimately added make america safer. commissioner davis, i think your recommendation to codify these recommendations into law is an excellent idea. come out of the time, recommendations, all the time. but if it is codified and has the whole force and effect of law i think it's even stronger so i commend you for that recommendation as well.

and just to end, i also want to thank the staff on both sides of the aisle for all the work they put into this report, particularly allen carroll on my staff who has worked day in and day out for a year with all the relevant agencies doing a great job. and i want to thank bill keating, my dear friend from massachusetts. this hit home to you but the work, working together with you in developing this report, traveling with you to moscow to conduct interviews, you and i have been joined at the hip on this report, and i think it's very significant. but our heart does go out to the boston community. as we approach the anniversary of this bombing, this tragedy, i think you'll be a time to remember, it will also be a time to heal, and it will also be a time of pride for boston is strong. so let me thank the witnesses -- >> mr. chairman, if i could.

>> yes. mr. keating. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i just want to thank staff. i want to thank you. you been to boston. you traveled every footstep of the way on these and i want to thank you for your personal involvement. congressman king came down to watertown and this is a very important to our area. very important to our country going forward, and i want to thank our brave law enforcement officers that are here for the work you've done once again. and i will say that moving forward we have been working on legislation which we will share with everyone. we will make sure, you know, some of the positions change so you could have someone that is more open to cooperation, and then he could be replaced or she could be replaced by someone that doesn't share that exciting going forward it's important to get the laws or the code changed so that we're not having another report that just sits on the

shelf because we can't afford to have this kind of tragedy. if we could prevent one of them, all of her work would be important. and again, i turned back and again thank the chair. >> personal involvement. let me just close by thanking the officers. you are true hero's to me and this committee. i also want to thank you from our watertown police patch and 10. i will wear this probably. with that, this hearing is adjourned. -- where this probably. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> join us in just under 40 minutes one second state john kerry will take part in a groundbreaking ceremony for the new unit states diplomacy center. also attend the former secretary hillary clinton, battle albright, henry kissinger, james baker and colin l. live coverage starting at noon eastern here on c-span2. later, doctors and global health officials will discuss the latest on the ebola outbreak in west africa. georgetown university for national a global health law host the event. you can see it live starting at 1:20 p.m. eastern also on

c-span2. taking a look at some of our primetime programming tonight across the c-span networks. >> here are some highlights for this coming weekend.

>> c-span2 providinc-span to pre coverage of the u.s. senate floor proceedings and key public policy events. ended weekend, booktv now 415 years the only television network devoted to nonfiction books and authors. c-span to greater by the cable tv industry and brought to you as a publix was by local cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. the american bar association's homeland security law instead held annual conference in washington last month. a portion included panel discussions focusing on immigration policy and an assessment of the safety act which provides important legal liability protections for providers of antiterrorism technology. this is just over 35 minutes. >> very pleased to have you both join today in this discussion something go turn two linda first to get some further

context. >> thanks, james. let me at the outset also express my appreciation to joe and other organizers for the event. it's been a pleasure to watch over the years as they've helped define this legal space which really didn't exist prior to the creation of the department of homeland security. i think this conference is a testament to a lot of years of hard work on his and other organizers part. i thought i would kick off, james, the conversation at a fairly high level. as you mentioned, it has been, there's been a lot of bills that have been passed either by one chamber or introduced and seen a lot of activity. and it's been over the past 10 years at iraq as an emotional debate. in the midst of a very technical issue in that environment it can be difficult to take stock of where is the overall issue and where is it drinking. what we do know just from a few weeks ago is we found ourselves 10 years into this debate with

both parties at the end of july pretty much happy to leave town with a major legislative issue on immigration on the table. from the perspective addressed from either side that we have to be direct both sides, the house and the senate left down with it and resolve the i'm going to talk all of it about the policy and politics are my perspective of how we've ended up here in the weekend i've made into something specific policy issues. i think when you look over the last decade at immigration and the sidelines of how the debate has moved. for me on the policy front it's been quite remarkable. as much as we deal in the details in the weeds of the issue, both democrats and republicans, so basically the senate and the house, have really moved quite substantially towards the middle on policy issues. so if you look at the senate

bill that passed in 2006, there were a lot of uninsured questions about border security, about e-verify. not that there were not titles and those bills is said we'd have an electronic registration system, but i wa would say on te policy front they were not fully formulated. and as that debate progressed over a decade in the senate, resolve issues move and track towards the center. so starting with the legalization peace, the path, the most controversial issue what do we do with undocumented and legalizing them and what the path looks like, it over the tine fey became longer and it became harder for undocumented to qualify for legal status and get on a path for citizenship. the e-verify provisions as i just mentioned went from really theoretical that there needs to be a system to really a very detailed and rigorous program

high to the legalization program. most recently on the border security issues as it passed the senate just a couple of years ago you saw massive influx of border resources. let me put an asterisk by the. i don't know if that's necessary the best policy but it's only as an indication that there was a trend to get out of the senate that it needed to track towards the right. actually i think those changes as significant as they are pale in comparison to the policy development in the house of representatives on this issue. i still remember when i started up on the hill in 2005-2006 when i felt like we're just getting going on looking at these issues, and representative sensenbrenner pushed through in basically about a week they built that made every undocumented immigrant a felon for being in the united states. he said that's going to be the t