how many of you brega? raise your hand. how many have you intentionally breed when you're feeling stressed? like to people are raising their hands. so we know the breathing is tool. it is a tool. it helps us deactivate. helps us to build the space so that we can choose and use effective strategy. we have to teach kids that. it does not come naturally. that did not know how to breed. the fourth step is see your best self. think about that. this idea came about as a collaboration with my colleague where we realized that we were missing something important to motivation. you have to want to regulate. i was fortunate in my career that i was named the feeling master by my students.

i started thinking. what is that? the attributes of someone who is a master of his or her feelings and how do i want to feel as a teacher? i want to be compassionate. interestingly enough we just got done. the number one best self adjective that came out of this group was compassionate they all want to be more compassionate. when you have the lens of compassion you choose more effective strategies. how could you not? it shifts its capacity. when you live your life through the lens of compassion you will likely choose more effective strategies to ministers. examples in the classroom. finally there is a tool called the blueprint. it helps kids understand that it is not just about me. ..

what this looks like a classroom or school. the amount of released on the principle has when there's less aggression and less suspensions. we also are showing as we heard a while ago implementation matters and it matters a great deal. to train teachers to be high-quality because when you do what you find is that the kids conflict resolution skills go up

in the conflict skills go. which i will do -- doing this work will help teachers baking schools and classrooms were places where kids want to be helps teachers become better teachers so in summary i have a few comments. one i think will agree that children are wired for good and if we don't agree there is research to support it. if attachments at home only when attachments at home are positive will they try to the second thing i want to say is that children's goodness and ability to reach their full potential is ours to nurture or ours to neglect in the third is i hope you see that teaching emotional intelligence and social emotional learning more broadly has great benefits. first we want to teach children adults involved in the lives we can create the society we want where people are healthy effective and compassionate. i want to just make one final comment and this is a call to action. we are here together to talk

about children's development about teacher preparation and the nation we want for our children to live. i can't say with a stronger heart that is the nation's responsibility to take seriously the education or should say specifically the emotional education of its children. thank you very much. [applause] >> i would like to thank mark and renée for giving such fantastic presentations. so now we will have time to take two questions. i see belinda is over there so we will go ahead and start with your question. >> hi i have a question that came in through social media through facebook and it's for

our first speaker i believe. are there examples of consequences if teachers can put in place to hold children who bully a countable? >> yes, there are exales and i would encourage them to go to the uw wwp.gov web site for specific examples. the reason i'm hedging on this topic is i'm being aware of time and we are supposed to give short answers and i'm not sure that i could give an appropriate short answer to that question. so mark of the want give a short answer to that question. i would encourage them to go to the web site. both of the web sites have strategies for practitioners in responding to different types of problem or challenging behavior including bullying so that would be my guidance and they can contact me directly at the department they can't find what they are looking for.

>> okay. >> hi. a question for rene. i have seen pbis. >> so transformative in schools they work in new york schools mostly but around the country extremely transformed about the transformation grants it just came out were perplexing that what they did was equate pbis with school reform efforts. when i see they are fundamentally different. they are needed but fundamentally different. do you see any of those differences with school climate improvement in the goals of what pbis tries to do in school climate reform tries to do? guess. >> i don't personally see a great difference between the two and i'm sorry if it appeared that way because i actually worked with safe and healthy students on the rfp for those grants. catherine talked earlier, there are a lot of areas where we

still need a good bit of research and catherine bradshaw you are on a paddle later too so i hope she will talk then. she is one of the best researchers i think that is looked at controlled trials looking at the effects of pbis and implementation of that framework. so i would point you to her, her research and hopefully she will talk about some this afternoon. everything is kind of, you kind of move over time and transform in their initial work with the pbis center was to look at children with emotional disabilities, emotional behavioral disabilities and how we can create environments that are more conducive to them being included in our regular public school settings. as we began that work was became very obvious in looking how the triangles set up as the basis for the framework was that if the school was not addressing social emotional behavior needs

of all the children it was very difficult to ask schools to put energy and effort and time into addressing those that were most needy. you will see a good bit of research that looks at similar to what mark was saying reductions in suspensions, reductions in discipline referral productions and out of school time and the great thing about seeing those reductions is that it gives teachers and administrators more time to do what they are supposed to be doing, to address the structural needs to augment the social emotional work that mark is talking about. what we are trying to do is use on the lessons learned from the pbis work and we are still learning a lot and to use some of those lessons learned and move that into a basis for school climate transformation grants. hopefully you see more of a connection than not and the pbis center will be funded this year to help support the school

climate transformation grants. so that's, we will be doing more than just looking at it from eight disabilities perspective and working with all of the grantees. >> if there aren't any other questions i'm going to go ahead and turn it over to sharon burton for the next plenary session. oh there's another question? >> thank you. this is a question for mark. what kind of provision do you have with a significant percentage of children and adolescents that have difficulties in processing language and they cannot recognize social cues? i'm not talking about

developmental disorders. i'm talking about language receptive developmental delays. >> that's a great question. firstly our approach is primarily of tier 1 intervention approach using the pbis universal approach. with that said we have had a lot of experience working in the new york city department of education specifically in district 75 reaching children who have those kinds of learning differences are innate. what we have found works the best is local adaptations, working with the technology that school has for those children is the best way to go. there were some examples of that where children had auditory challenge is a speaking they couldn't share anything verbally so they build a system where they could take a mood meter by way of example and have kids moved there facial expressions into the quadrant effectively. >> i had a question about in our

district we are seeing an increase in the number of gangs or crews that are forming at younger ages and i'm wondering whether either one of you has used your strategies in dealing particularly with that issue and if you have suggestions for s.? >> i get pushed into that one. we have worked in school districts where there have been significant high levels of violence and aggression and again this local adaptation piece is so critical. you have to understand the culture and the climate of that school. you have to understand the demographics, where these kids are coming from and what are the mindsets around this work. with that in mind however there there are things for example this best selfies that we talk about with one of our tools called the moment for supper division. some of these kids have never been thought about what that means to them. working with him on a deep level

to get that idea ingrained in their lives by thinking about outside role models and others having them start learning a little bit about short-term versus long-term strategies and perspective technique can go a long way that yet we are not, it's not -- there's no magic pills for those kinds of environments. they require pretty focused interventions. >> i would add to that the importance and i know i went quickly through a lot of the visuals but if you look back at those officials especially at the web site the importance of setting up a context conducive to the behavior that you want to see. adults are reinforced and they are teaching those behaviors and reinforcing those behaviors. i was mostly with elementary aged children and i a couple years ago was in high school in chicago when they were changing classes classes and from events like the scariest part of school is when all these kids are in the hallways together. most of them are taller than i am in the first place and i

don't know if it was staged. if it was staged was brilliant but one of the kids got knocked up against a locker in the hallway and another kid came up and said bam, we don't do that here. that's the kind, when they were establishing a culture and a climate there's no one thing is going to do everything but when you have peers telling other peers what they expect a is so it's almost like you know being inappropriate, displaying inappropriate behaviors become so not cool thing to be in some of the schools. not all of them but that's just an example when it came to mind about the importance of the context supporting the practices that you want to put into place. >> thank you both very much. let's give them another big round of applause. [applause]

>> between you and lunch we are going to try to move as fast as we can but i wanted to make sure that you have as much information as possible. this is a very important sessi session, where we are actually going to talk a little bit about some of the state education and local education perspectives. one from dr. bradshaw who has been working with maryland and with a lot of what they are doing in the same areas that you have heard about the social emotional learning and also a little bit of the multitiered network framework rather. and also all the way from los angeles, sara train is here and i'm just going to read briefly her bio. you did hear a little bit about

dr. bradshaw earlier who participated in an earlier plenary session but i do want to introduce you also to sara train. i'm not going to go ever -- over everything in her bio, which owner. sara is the coordinator of the los angeles lgbt centers project spin suicide prevention intervention now program. a coalition strengthening collaboration among many programs and services designed to support lgb tq used throughout los angeles county. under her leadership the coalition has directly reached over 100 students, parents and school staff and administrators on training of suicide prevention and crisis and care in an effort to create an lgb tq inclusive school preachings as the school districts in los angeles county are building capacity to respond and implement inclusive policies in accordance with changing legislation.

we have some great speakers today and again what we have asked them to address are some of the lessons learned for implementing bullying prevention programs and districts in the classroom and some of the promising things that they are saying that youth are responding to. we feel that this perspective goes along with our theme of implementation and being able to learn from what is actually going on in the field. we will have dr. bradshaw. >> first and then followed by sara. thank you. [applause] >> it's exciting to be back up here and i'm going to shift gears a little bit. as a researcher i am part of a partnership that is based in the

state of maryland and is really focused on scaling up positive behavior support and multitiered systems of support. it's largely led by our partners education andrea alexander and mike ford are the original ones invited to serve on this panel. unfortunately they had an op edition back at the state department so they were unable to attend today and asked me if i could come. the third leg of our triangle is the build system which is a large mental health provider across the state of maryland and while they provide a range of support services anything from the largest support services for kids with autism across the state and now treatment, mental health services. they have a strong commitment to prevention and behavioral and health problems. the partnership actually began in 1999 through shepard pratt in the maryland state department of education and johns hopkins.

my colleague and i joined in 2001. we have been working in partnership to do research as well as scale up positive behavior support and use it generally as a framework and not necessarily as a program, only a framework for delivering evidence-based models. we are doing tremendous work that renée talked about for the national ta center which is led by george and rob corner and tim lewis. we always feel we are standing on the shoulders of giants peeking over the corn if you're trying to see what we can do next and how we can scale this workout. much of this ever comes out of a grant that we received that is focused on safe and supportive schools in the same around climate. i think the comment that came up about transformation grant and the pbis the panacea for them i don't think that that's necessarily the intent that is

certainly one tool that could be used in one tool that we have been using to address school climate. you can think about it as a potential tool or framework. at least that's how we have been interpreting it and using it. i'm sure there are other ways we can think about that but when the safe and supportive schools grant mechanism came down from u.s. department of education providing an opportunity to do research about evidence-based practices franqui was in a research grant that we embedded that within it to promote school climate. our partnership came together and said let's focus on this particular initiative and it was geared at high schools. i want to zoom in on this particular project because of something we are just wrapping up now. it's also a -- also high school model where we use the pbs i framework and the setting. our partnership had been to trial trials -- prior trials. wanted to hear one in the second trial, tier 1 plus tier two.

i will be happy to share with you with any questions. i want to share more or less doing this work at the high school level. the high schools are a whole different ball of wax. you hear about the systems and frameworks in a thick okay i can get an idea of these incentives. what about high schools? we really found the school climate framework was one that helped us connect positive behavior support around different kinds of change that they wanted to effect in the schools to reduce bullying and to reduce behavioral problems and substance abuse problem so it's really just a framework to guide the effort we are doing. we go to some of the literature around school climate and work with the national education association and have some of our partners from the nea today that it meant doing a lot of work around bullying prevention school climate. they have one of their research

briefs and is an excerpt of some of the research we know around what is school climate and how is it relevant. when they get to measurement of school climate this is a big piece of the safe and supols grh develops sustainable system for assessing school climate notch to know where the hotspots are but two to drive the decision-making but the data back in the hands of the best traders teachers and staff to decide what interventions they want to use to improve school climate. we work together with our state partners to develop a measure through that process we were looking at several existing measures. some were behaviorally focused and some were about focus perceptions. we have public health framework so we wanted to cover both the behavior so things like bullying and substance abuse problems as well as kids perceptions of the environment. you might say are you kind of flipping around and isn't

climate supposed impact the things that you can also think if you have kids pulling each other is going to negatively impact the climate. there's a bit of a cycle between what are the outcomes than they perceptions of process data. we want to unpack though bit more. read bill track at the u.s. department of education's model of school climate because when you are writing a grant it's nice to use that framework. we also thought well when we try to validate their motto -- models that we have a paper in the journal of school health were revalidated this model. the collected data on over 25,000 high school students across multiple periods of time and then through confirmatory and exploratory analytic approaches and addressing of all right if things about ethnicity and gender and grade level differences we were able to provide general support for this particular model with a couple of tweaks. this year we have a theme around connectedness in the middle in this gets to some of the themes that marc had known about the

relationship component and in fact is we are unpacking or data that is where we are seeing most of the action in terms of mechanism of change, just feeling connected to others especially our african-american students cared for by adults. it's more important than just a global perception that the school environment is pretty positive. caring and connection dimension is something that is coming out as a strong lesson for us about what they want to focus on and certainly adds to the research we know from michael resnick about the importance of those connections to people as well as the school more broadly. maryland being one of the 11 states that was funded during the safe and supportive schools grant in that's why we call it mvs3 were safe and supportive schools. it was an integral project and we are entering a no-cost extension of the project so this will be our fifth and final year of it. we work closely to develop a

statewide system for assessing school climate and looked at several different measures that were available and borrowed heavily from existing validated tools and created a system. it's great that i get calls from school district saying hey and leisure system rather than us going knock, knock the want to collect data from as quickly as school districts that have adopted this model of 117 schools that will be in one of our districts scaling up the school climate survey system. it's something to be able to sustain the effort. they see the value in having that data to drive the decision-making process. he focused on high schools and a roll 58 high schools to work with opera period of four years. we could use a random assignment where we split the sample larger on the intervention side so we could look at some of our fidelity questions. it was a true random assignment balance on the 12 school districts. they were geographically disperse. they were all over the state.

maryland is a funny stay where we reach up to west virginia and pennsylvania all the way down to the eastern shore. so then we have more urban areas in the middle of the state near baltimore so we really do have a nice microcosm for the united states for diversity across the state. we used the positive behavior support framework to really blend together the database decision pieces as well as to bring in other evidence-based practices so in addition to doing the. framework wanted to plug in other evidence-based practices. rather than tell schools you have to do this or that we would give them a coach what we call a school climate support coach working with data and providing trading -- training on evidence-based practices that they could choose. this is the list of the evidence-based practices. in our model we are not testin g

check in québec. we are testing the process by which they select other day and didn't space practices. it was fun putting together this initial list of programs based on our feedback. the first year everybody signed up for the treaty and frankly by the second year there was one school that was trying to implement the elements because of the aspects of the level of commitment needed. the elements that were the most attractive schools and what schools choose frankly the tier 2 support to rent check and connect, check-in and checkout were most popular efforts. similarly when we got to get what i want something ford territory. they came back and they were like like wow i don't know if we can pull this off. this came out of ucla unified but it's interesting when you put out this menu and they get excited about things. what are they actually going to pick up and were they going to implement?

again we are testin testing the positive behavior work framework for implementing evidence-based interventions. these are a snapshot of some of the fidelity tools we sent in outside observers who are unaware of the school's condition or what programs they have chosen for the many to assess the fidelity of the different dimensions including the positive behavior support framework and the other evidence-based programs they may have chosen. then we are looking at observations. we have got a supplemental grant from the lian t. grant foundation to bring in observers. we have all these kids are porting climate and we are getting parents and teachers too. can you observe school climate and 1% outsiders and? what about the attila mirman and how does that interface with the way kids are connecting with each other? we sent in observers to use tools and i will talk about

those if there is time about the strategies. they were collecting observational data to supplement the data being collected by self-report but the self-report data is one of our chief outcomes of interest. this is just giving you a little bit of an overview of how we collect this data and school climate. it's 20 minutes for students to complete. you don't sample the whole school but some schools want to assess all their students to make a strong about that. it's nonidentifiable self-report and anonymous in that framework so it allows us to capte th data electronically and most importantly it spits it right back out to administrators of ministers can see their data in real time and sorted and create different types of charts. we have a youth advisory committee that came up with the tagline you see here. what kind of school do you want

your school to be? i would love to say that these are real children but they are. they are too perfect and beautiful but we wanted to put together a campaign that we wrote out across the schools. you can see it's really about getting a new voice in youth involvement. they were both very beginning and then we actually got real-life children from the state of maryland. one of our schools did a video that is a lead-in to the survey systems. that way as kids talking to other kids and adults about why collecting this data is helpful and wise important so that shows the youth boys and that your connection. we actually drafted a script for them and sent it over to them and they are like yeah this is in any good. they went through and read marketing came with oh my gosh this is so great. if we would have hired actors would have gone so well that we had kids talking about their experiences and why it's important that data. this is the data we have collected. only two open your eyes to

actually looking at some of these indicators we use three-dimensional school climate safety engagement environment. thanks it often jumped out at school step when we presented data back to them some of the points that marc brought up about emotions. nearly 22% of the students feeling sad and most of the teachers are i never thought about them being sad. they are quiet and not acting out and they are never in trouble but i never thought about them being said. it really helped them get in touch with the emotional situation in the classrooms. that was when they came out so the equity piece only 61% of our students issues of equity. this is a diverse sample and this is other minorities being the largest minority in the state. we can see when we were rated the data to affect sample

diversity that 260% are feeling vicious back with a are just. other students needing support. some students feeling they are able to get the supports they need for their schools. these are the data we try to provide back to the schools. the little bit of a wake-up call to help them understand. we also have student data paired with parent and teacher so we can show the similarities and discrepancies across them. we had a grand previous to this where he developed all these reporting tools and met with principals about data because people get overwhelmed with data. we created these different templates for database decision-making and tools to help them use the data and in fact have actually seen even in our patrol schools that only got access to the survey they are improving display getting access to the data.

we are seeing greater gains in schools with interventions as well. this is a little bit of an overview of the observational data. we are using two main tools. when we refer to its assist and has been previously used. we go into the classroom. nobody goes into the high school classroom and provides teachers feedback about their use of praise or commutative statements or who they are providing statements to or what the students are doing. that data is eye-opening. we going to 25 randomly selected questions and provide feedback to the schools and they are just amazed at how much information they're able to get from that feedback. then we have another measure referred to as the safety. this is more about the environment and comes out of the line of research from crime prevention design. we have that same about surveillance and adult supervision but also the interactions between youth and adults in where the safe areas in the school are.

we get so much day that we have to drill down what to get back to the books -- schools. you can see this as over the past spring. we do it on handheld so we get the data back but he concedes 65% of the classrooms where the students engage during instruction. going into all of these thousands of classrooms across the state and only 65% are rated as being engaged. you can see a little bit of information we were able to provide to them around the observations. in terms of some of the impacts this is based on the first year. not taking into consideration of who is implementing what.

it's really very exciting and we are hoping the effects continued to be sustained over the course in terms of some of the lessons learned to wrap up here in tie tier 1 these evidence praised programs really than that being what they focused on the tier 1 and this is where we see the impacts. i want to say you have to jump to tier 1 or 23. you have to have that foundation order to bring in other things. i was very clear to us. so the climate and connecting up with the goals of the school and saying we don't have to worry about climate we are focused on educational outcomes. we really need them to understand how climate benefited them.

the use of the data and communications where the use -- youth voice came in about how we are communicating data and sharing that. certainly the coaching peace piece. we were having a conversation with all the rnc's a week ago in d.c. and i brought up the dirty little secret that not all coaches are created equally and not all coaches are rock stars and not all coaches are able to affect teaching. david gaucher who i admire quite a bit he brought in the motto what is good enough coaching? to you think about the good and apparent motto. what is that because you will never be able to hire all rock star coaches but what is the level of change you will remediate in and what is the fit between a coach, you could have a rock star coaches but in the school it has a different framework. we talk about implementations. we have to have training and we really need to get into that black box of what is coaching, what is the good enough

coaching? is it duration? is it personality, is that emotional intelligence? there are a variety of different factors that are critical for the change process. that's just a snapshot of some of our findings were safe and supportive schools initiative and gives you a little bit of a perspective on the field we are learning through this process. [applause] >> hello, good afternoon almost. i am closer between you and your break so i am really honored to be with you this morning and share a little bit about what i get to do in l.a. and my role in coordinating projects spend. i'm going to do that but just know i won't be able to cover everything. let's meet afterwards and i can share in more depth kind of the models that we use and some of

the ways that we are really trying to address this really important issue working together to create safer schools. i want to say that i'm here representing a team of people behind me so just envision that. a visual of all the people standing behind me. i certainly want to spend some time thanking them for their work and their collaboration. projects spend, spend standing for suicide prevention intervention now is a partnership between the l.a. lg bt center and los angeles unified school district along with l.a. county office of ed where we partner in a very intentional way to address environments that would lead any young person to experience negative mental health outcomes because of their school experience. we think and believe that schools are a change agent. some of you in this room believe that as well. for us parents who have maybe

young people coming out to them as though transgender bisexual having a school that is informed that is intentionally taking steps to create a safer place for the young person is really remarkable. that is what we try to do in partnership with l.a. unified. l.a. unified is the second largest school district in the nation and has really been at the forefront in policies around lg bt inclusive experiences both in curriculum as well as all the way are back as recognizing them in their nondiscrimination policies when no other school district is doing that. so they really have set the groundwork for that. i want to highlight the word -- holly tim who works with the cdc to continuing this work even today. they sent me and they are still

doing the work today. the ozzy bt center has been around for quite some time and the history of our partnership is about three years ago when there was a need at an actual level to pay attention to what was happening in our schools and how people were feeling. much where we are today although the conversation has shifted a little bit. we decided we need to take a role to be more intentionally supported in a partnership with our schools. so that is where the projects spend, the idea projects then came together. we have pulled together all of these different organizations both national and local. zero lgbt youth serving specifically and mental health specifically together to look at what can we do in our partnership if we were coordinated, if we have a vision that we shared, what could we do together and how could we do

that over the next couple of years? so we called together a summit and we asked three questions in our summit. what are we doing while? waters on the challenges in the gaps and what can we do moving forward? based on those conversations we really set a tone for where we wanted to take this partnership. a lot of the different practices we have already heard today i'm not going to reiterate them came from that discussion. the importance of tying together best practices in using programs that have been researched, making sure we were engaging in a comprehensive way our entire school community not just focusing on one piece of the puzzle but really addressing the whole school community. all of these things have been at go this morning. it was really important to us to do so in a way to not just address bullying from mental health perspective but did so in a way that shifted the narrative to celebrating the diversity of

our community and that included all of us. for so many of us what we hear about ways to support a lgbt young people comes up up in the discussion around mental health. really important but we also wanted to have the conversation around how we can celebrate the identity of our lgbt young people so it's not just a narrative of higher risk for bowling but it's also a narrative of strength and a narrative where they get to see themselves resilient and thriving in a community. doing that together we stop our work had a lot of similarities in suicide prevention as well as bullying prevention. where in suicide prevention connectedness is so important. it is as well and bullying prevention. our work was weaving together. we were doing so much side load

but in a coordinated way. there was a lot more that we could accomplish. these are some of the core principles that came out of our work together in that summit. we have been focusing on the importance of comprehensive k-12 students, parents involving superintendents, involving administrators involving teachers come everybody that's involved in the school really making them a key part of the work we are doing. also looking at the whole pers person, their wellness in all of these things coming up earlier this morning. the third piece is collaborative. it was so important to us and in a landmark way bringing together these players in a coordinated fashion. we have had lots of interesting data today. this is a snapshot of a little bit of research that was done in california looking at high schools and what was it that

impacts and environment at a high school specifically around lgbt young people. we chose to highlight three high schools. half the high school one that was the more typical one that was very safe based on the research that was done. we saw in his family had heard it but this research really gave us the data around that. there were couple of components that were really important. visible allies and learning about lgbt identities within curriculum so they integrated curriculum piece was key. we started to focus our efforts a lot more intentionally in that way. integrated curriculum. in last year we have partnered with one archive which is one of the largest collections of lgbt libraries as well as artifacts and lucky for us they are based out of los angeles. we are looking at how we can

respond to the fair education act in california. fair, accurate and inclusive and respectful curriculum to really integrate the contributions of lgbt people in history in a seamless way so that is not in the sidebar but it is within the main text of what i'm learning. pacific islanders and people with disabilities integrating that into our curriculum. we saw we could really shift out not only our lgbt young people feel that their classmates, those were maybe struggling or those who have never had a positive context for talking about this before. we also partner with a lot of other organizations some of them who are even in the room. welcoming school specifically that works with elementary schools on how to bring in this conversation in all of your curriculum and instruction. when you talk about family diversity, talk about all of our

family diversity is and making sure the teachers felt that they have the equipment and the tools necessary to do so. the last thing that i want to talk about something i'm really excited and proud of because it was one of our newest initiatives and it is our out for safe schools. last year partnership with lausd we sat down and talked about the importance of out visible allies on school campuses. there is a hesitance. not everybody feel safe being out on their campus even as an ally. so for us it was a challenge. how could we create an awareness around this but also do so in a way that impacts ultimately on people's lives? that is when we created the idea of an employee badge that says i am out for safe schools. it has the word allied in seven different languages. on the back it has a list of

resources that any school member could use. we purchased 30,000 badges which was roughly one third of all the staff in l.a. unified and we pass them out. we asked people to opt in to wear them. it went along with the toolkit and several other different supports to the school. obviously along with us they a are. we were blown away with the response. you will see even today around l.a. unified not only their employee badge with a badge that says they are out for safe schools. this is really a visible way for people in all schools to be able to identify where they can feel the safest. we have heard so many different testimonials from staff and who never thought that they could come out on campus seeing their staff, other staff and co-workers wearing the badge and making an impact on them. maybe one thing we haven't talked about yet this morning is

how can adults respond to incidences of bullying when they themselves feel ill-equipped or unsupported in that conversation? we really found that this, identifying our role as an ally, identifying our world is telling our story and being part of the community in such a neutral yet visible way allowed staff to feel as connected to their school and for students who scanned us as adults every day to see if we believe in their potential to be able to feel safer just because we were wearing a badge. this year we are hoping to partner with many other school districts across the nation who kind of like the idea and certainly looking to see how we have -- can create more creative ideas, create more creative ideas of addressing this in a way that catches the conversation right where he

needs to be engaging all of us. we certainlyav continue to learn from our experiences. many of them have been highlighted earlier today from what are best practices and how we need to be addressing the best support systems for schools. finally i just want to leave you with three thoughts as to what has been a successful partnership for us. we are so lucky to work with a school district and several districts within l.a. county that really value collaboration and partnership. i can say personally i have learned three things. one is a trusting relationship. it's one where we come to the table and listen to each other and that involves parents, students, community-based organizations and involves many people across the spectrum. that's really important for successful collaboration. the second i think his research

really using practices that have been studied better than proven and doing so in a way that's thoughtful and not just trying something out because maybe it will work. but really being thoughtful about practices and involving people who know what they are doing. the third one which i think speaks to all the people involved in projects spin with their community partners is bold leadership, leadership that's not afraid to shift culture around all these different topics we have been talking about this morning and thinking creatively around how we can do together. i will leave you with that but i can talk to you much more about all of the different interventions. thank you for your attention. [applause]

>> let's give our members another round of applause. they really shared some interesting information. we have time for two questions because we know that your stomach is growling that anything like mine. they might start on either side of the room so if you have a question please push the mic and is there someone you want to address it to specifically or two but panelists please be clear on that too. >> hi. i am gina from over him massachusetts. thank you so much. first of all the points are emphasizing this is more comment than a question. our previous speaker as well about the importance of the core instruction, the truly universal teaching of these skills is so important. think when we talk about it we

talk about. model of intervention and people here that intervention word and i think our minds go to the two and three tiers whereas the universal instruction and core instruction is so important. i think you have both really talked about it and i appreciate it. i do have a question for kevin. the schools involved in the pilot, where they schools that had not previously implemented any of those core programs like ove s.? >> guest: that is correct. we have not implemented -- implemented in those programs previously because we had done some pbis training at the high school level. some of the schools had some prior level of exposure to behavior support but we assessed at baseline and we control for that in the randomization so we matched on that essentially when

we were doing randomization. when there's a big scale estates on the schools may have gotten a principal from another school who was trained so we were concerned a little bit when you get a model in the water so to speak. it just gets picked up. that is why we assessed any of the three tiers. we didn't have been in the that high scores at baseline. they were able to assess that and use it as part of the randomization. schools are doing a lot of different things they might have been doing a little bit of this in a little bit about that they rarely get a sense. most schools on average come in at 20 or 30 even at baseline. we were able to control for that is part of the randomization. any of the other advanced tiers -- >> guest: similarly the survey data that was used at schools

also used other surveys in the past like this behavior survey and were they using these concurrently? >> maryland doesn't get data back to the school level. there's no data provided back to the school level. only goes to the district levels. it's not a tool that's helpful in the building level other than to say this is what the kids in maryland look like and this is what the kids in this district looked like internationally for comparison but it isn't provided directly for decision-making. >> is there another question? >> one? >> 11 that came to facebook what can parents do if they feel their school is not properly responding to their child being bullied? >> and lunch. just kidding. i can see what we do with regards to working with parents

not just with reactive relationships but engaging them from day one around what our different ways for them to access support through the school, the district and any other outside organization that is a resource. there are multiple people to speak to whomever they might feel the safest with. i think it's really important to have a very clear process so parents know who they need to talk to and through that process is going to include once they do make a uniform complaint or once they are able to process to the next step. i think it's important to have that clear information and it's something that involves parents feedback so it's not just legal language that parents might have difficulty navigating. it's really easy and accessible. that's so important for us. also we include parents in our teaching so if we do training and professional development we include parents in that process.

i'm not just talking about our interventions for talking about what we do once we do get a complaint so they can understand the process of the school what happens. and whatever their intervention methods around that. that's my short answer. >> do you want to respond? i wanted to put a plug-in fo for --.gov. there is good information there for parents on how to deal with these kinds of issues that has outlined their. also it's very important to get a sense of what the legislation is in your state on how to deal with those issues as well. that information is provided on that web site. we are going to have a breakout later today to talk more about the web site and some of the great information that's involved. i just wanted to say that. due to the time we will go ahead and leave it at that. i believe these ladies are going to be here throughout the day so

feel free to come up to them or any of our speakers today if you have follow-up questions i must give them another round of applause. [applause]

c-span: michael lewis author of the big short i want to ask you a weird first question. >> guest: why does that not surprise me? c-span: why is it that throughout this book on almost every page you have people you are talking to using the f word? >> guest: because they do and if the profanity of that environment is part of describing the environment you can't write about people and take that out and have the flavor of the thing preserved. so i think if you listen to people on wall street and you listen to people on the streets of america the level of profanity and on wall street is extremely high. that is the way people talk. in a way it's manipulating the environment. c-span: have you thought about how often it happens?

>> guest: it's almost every page. .. when he talks that's what comes out of his mouth. c-span: at the end of 0 your book you have a lunch with a former leader over a company you worked for. how do you pronounce the name? >> guest: john goodfriend, my first job out of graduate school. i workedded a a bond salesman on

the solomon brothers trading force. c-span: quote, your fing book. why did he say that to you? >> guest: he said your f'inging into destroyed my career and made yours. i made a look called "liars poker" and he kept repeating that line, and he was just emphasizing how intensely he felt about it. and it was an awkward moment. i don't completely agree. i think that actually he did make my career. it was a great way to start a literary career. the book was a big success. but he could have survived my book. my book was -- dealt him at most a glancing blow. but i think he was thinking, here's this guy any laid eyes on who wrote this book who followed me wherever i go, and it's caused me some annoyance. i'm going to say what i think

about it. and so i let him say it. c-span: pronounce the name. >> guest: goodfriend it looks like gufrfe. distart walking back into the last, wall street, which i left when i was 27 years old and never -- i was drawn back because of the experience i had then, and one of the themes that teased out in the story is that an awful lot of the crisis we have been living through has its seeds in things that happened in the '80s, on the trading floor i worked, and so i thought it was appropriate to end the book by going back to the person who was there, and kind of dialogue -- a good friend in

particular was -- seminal things in wall street history. he had taken this legendary bond trading partnership, solomon brothers and turned it into a public corporation. when he got in control he went public and this completely changed the relationship of the wall street firm to the rest of society. it was very big deal. i think that was, as i say in the book, the pebble that was kicked off the top of the cliff that head to the avalanche. so i warranted to talk to him about it, see if he saw the connection between what he had done and the story we just lived through now. c-span: you have one of the biggest sendoffs on any book tower, "60 minutes," two segments. how did that come about? >> guest: i still arrest -- haven't seen it. it came out of the blue.

steve kroft, the interviewer, really wanted to do it, and when he showed up at my house in berkeley, he said, you know, we tried to do you two years ago or three years ago when "blind side" came out, the book i wrote about football and other things. but he said -- you told your publisher you wouldn't talk to us because we'd steal the material and not mention the book. and i think i did. they called the l before. i'd been so used to these news magazine shows appropriating material, and doing -- and helping them do their piece, and then, oops, you got forgotten. they forgot where they got all the material. i thought, this is a ways of time. so i told "60 minutes" no, once so they came back to the publisher, i guess, and said we're sear yes. we just -- serious, and we want to talk to him. so i caved in a moment of weakness i caved. and i thought it was going to be small and trivial piece on books. i didn't know what it would be.

they came and spent two days. my wife kept asking, are they leaving soon? the planted. thes in the house honor two days can, and we sat and talked. it was great. having not seen the piece i can't comment but it's an interesting experience, this business of doing media. unlike this experience. you talk to them for five, six hours. and it gets reduced to 20 minutes or whatever it, a very long piece. you don't -- because you said so many things in six hours you don't know what is going to come out of it, and the main sensation one has, when one is engaged in this activity, is total self-boredom, you think, my god, how could anybody be interested in me? i just bored myself for sick straight hours and they're going to reduce this to an even more boring 20 minute piece.

c-span: the only focused on one of your characters. >> guest: mike bury, who doesn't use f-bombs. c-span: he was an interesting character but so was steve eisner and -- but why did they tell you why they would only focus on him or dead steve icen say i'm not going to participate? >> guest: all the characters were dish had a privileged access to wall street because of "liar's poker" and other book that people were willing to talk to me. and i developed relationships with this subjects over a long time, and enabled me to write about them enter intimately. but it became an intimate against, -- experience and hanging around and talking, but a book would come out oft it, but i didn't think much. i trusted him so okay. and now the book comes out, and

they're getting calls from "60 minutes" saying, you want to go on the air? morgan stanly won't let steve eisner go on the air. he would doing it anyway if he felt bloody minded enough. but he didn't want to be a famous person. doesn't want to be on television. and charlie and young men -- who i had to badger into letting me write about them. i think they are on an island somewhere waiting for this to end. the last thing they wanted was to be on tv. so they actually all spoke to six six, the all talked to the producers and said, come over,'ll explain thinks to you but no way my face is going on television. c-span: why did mike -- >> guest: he doesn't like social interaction. there's a simple answer. a year and a half ago he felt completely betrayed by the financial world. c-span: he is on the screen

right now. >> guest: he felt neglected, he felt -- he thought he had been very precious in diagnosing what was going on in the american financial system. he had made a lot of money for other people, making a bet against the subprime mortgage market, and it had been -- wound up being a very unpleasant experience for him, and then the world moves on and nobody notices what he has done, even though it actually is an incredible depth. so when i called him, to talk to him, he was the one character who was very eager to talk to me, because he had a story, and he had three years of e-mails to document his every move. he had a story to tell that he really felt had been neglected, and so the "60 minutes" people were just reinforcing that. he wanted to the the story. c-span: the next day, amazon, your number one -- a week later, when this is taped, you're still number one on amazon. but you didn't show up in "the

wall street journal" today, which is interesting. in their poll for the week, which i was surprised about. what about these numbers? >> guest: i give you a quicker way the bestseller list works generally, the things in the paper are usually with a lag. so, you wouldn't be -- "the new york times" bestseller list and journal is all kind of a -- it's all from two weeks ago. the book hasn't been on sale long enough to hit the lists. the market for it has surprised even me. the market for it seems to be vast. and that's really -- but i'm starting to get my mind around what is going on with this book right now. it's clearly a reservoir not just about anger of what happened but real intense curiosity to know what actually happened on wall street. and that i didn't expect. i thought actually trying to get people to read my story would be

a little more difficult than it's been. c-span: correct. anything i say. new orleans was your birth? >> guest: that's where most of my gene pool is. c-span: princeton. >> guest: yes. c-span: you live in berkeley. >> guest: uh-huh. c-span: you're married to somebody my age. >> guest: tabitha. c-span: i remember her on mtv. >> guest: she was 22 or 21 when she went on the air, but she used to anchor the news for mtv and interview rock stars and so on and so forth. and we have three kids, two daughters and a son, age 10, feign, -- seven, three, and the only major piece of my biography, i went to graduate school in london and spent ought years living in england. c-span: and an art history major in princeton. >> guest: yes.

my first amibition was to be an art historian. spoon spoon lie's poker came out in 1989. you worked at sol lon brothers to years. >> guest: more like three. almost three. i got there in the summer of '85 and i left in early '88. c-span: can you give us a couple lines? >> guest: "low's porer p.o.w. the oxygen was my own bee willedderment someone would pay me money to give my insight. i had an economics degree but nothing to do with giving investment advice, and i had a pretty strong sense -- as interested as i was in the kind of sociology -- well, it's finance -- i got instructed i wasn't particularly well suited to telling people what to do with their money. i didn't know what would happen in the stock market and i didn't feel like i was actually a

useful -- making a useful contribution to the global economy, but it was clear if i could sit in that seat, i'd get rich and that was puzzling, why shy get paid all this money just to sit in this seat, and the trick was just getting to the seat. and so i wrote -- i left to write a story about it. a nonfiction story, that was also trying to explain what happened on wall street to make these sort of jobs possible to make them so lucrative. but i really did think when i wrote it, this is it. the 1980s. it was a strange episode in american history. it was going to end so you had to get the story down on paper so future generations would believe it, and little did i know that 20 years later people would pity me for how little i made while i was there the sums paid on wall street had gotten so big that you -- that just looked quaint. c-span: first person in your

book is meredith whitney, seems to have a rather strong importance. can you tell us -- >> guest: she is a catalyst for me. she was, until very recently, what is called an analyst, working for a wall street firm that is offering stock to the public, and she world for a firm oppenheimer, and she was a financial sector analyst, and meredith whitney, who i never heard of, starts saying things in late 2007 when i first started paying attention -- about the wall street firms. different from anything i heard. she was saying they basically didn't know -- understand the risks they were taking. they didn't understand their own balance sheets. she predicts citigroup will have to cut or eliminate its dividend a week before they do. she seems to know more about what is going on inside the

places than people who run them. and she -- this is almost her tone that was as interesting as what she said. she was actually kind of con desending to the wall street people, and -- con desending, so i call -- condescending to wall street people. so i called her up. she was making a different sound. i'm curious who this woman is and why she thinks this. she persuaded me pretty early on that she didn't put it this way but i do. the wall street firms have become the dumb money at the poker table. these firms, which used to be the smart money -- when i leather solomon brothers the last thing you wanted to dive you were an investor of being on the other side of one of their trades. there were some zero sum bets to be made with solomon brothers but you would lose money. but somehow the firms turned stupid, as institutions. they had become the dumb money. and so that -- i cass curious --

that made me curious, something big changed. them the national question, if they were the dumb money, who was the smart money, and that led me to my character. they were the smart money. c-span: there's another word i would say is throughout your book, besides the f-word -- >> guest: right. >> host: the word "lie." time and time again, that people in these companies lied to each other lied to us, lied to the -- i want to read you one paragraph, a little bit of one paragraph. >> guest: not a word i'm using a lot. a word the characters are using. c-span: i'm pulling this out of page 174. eat go to meet little with wall street ceos and ask them the most basic questions about their balance sheets. quote, they didn't know, he said. they didn't know their own balance sheets. this is you writing, once he got himself invited to a meeting were the ceo of bank of america, ken lewis, quote, was sitting there listening to him. i had an epiphany. i said, he is dumb.

a light bulb went off. the guy running one of the biggest banks in the world is dumb. is that fair. >> guest: it's absolutely a pure representation of his view, and against bank of america. is it the -- those kind of statements tell you -- they're very important in a story like this in a narrative. there's as revelatory about steve iceman as ken lewis. is he guy really dumb? no. he can get out of bed in the morning and function. he is not dumb. but in that sense, but he is dumb in the sense that the doesn't persuasively understand his own business mind, and site iseman's very blunt way of getting the point across. c-span: let's talk about steve iseman. where is he from, where does he live? >> guest: steve iseman, who i'm led to by meredith whitney

because she trained with him. she was the school of iseman in a way, was a new york born and bred, had gone to university of pennsylvania, been a brilliant student, went to harvard law school, brilliant student, joined a corporate law firm, and hated it immediately. and so-called his mama, as one does when one is in trouble and his mama was a -- and father had a -- they were both prominent brokers at oppenheimer securities, and his mama got him a job, and it was a job as a step and fetch it. a junior analyst. but analyzing nothing at first. and in the mid-'90s, when he joins, subprime mortgage market is really just beginning its early form, and there's a new kind of company called a subprime mortgage originator, people looking for borrowers.

and someone asked him if he wants to be the analyst on it. so he becomes one of the first two or three analysts, the subprime mortgage companies, on wall street. and pretty quickly is the world expert on the subject. c-span: how old? >> guest: in his mooeds now. when this happened he is in this 30s i. c-span: you say he changes eventually but seemed angry and negative about everything. >> guest: the character, didn't occur to me until one of his colleagues opinion it out. they said when "curb your enthusiasm" came on, they just stole that. that's steve. he is larry david. he runs around finding people. his own wife says to me, my husband is rude, he has no manners, i know that. i've tried and tried and tried and there's nothing i can do about it. and he is tactless. and tactless -- there's a

pattern to his tactlessness which sort of endearedx( me. he was never rude or mean to little people, to the secretary, he wasn't mean to his nanny. he was wonderful with them. he was protective and carrying about the people beneath him. what he was tackless to people in power who he thought were abusing their position. it made him angry. and he would get in these over and over again -- find himselfs in these situations where he is in meetings with wall street big shots, and saying things that caused the meeting to come to an end, caused the big shots to say i'm never going to set foot in the same room with this man again. got to the opinion where his subordinateds, the people that worked with him in these funds, they'll just stop their jobs for the day to follow iseman wherever he is going because they want to see the show. they know if he is meeting one important on wall street, something is going to happen

they're going to want to see. one says it's like watching a car crash when you watch iseman in a social situation. you can't watch but you can't not watch,. c-span: and he didn't want to be veer viewed -- interview on "60 minutes." >> guest: i was very grateful to these people for letting me write about them as i did. i don't blame him for not wanting to be on tv. it's a peculiar kind of desire to want to be on tv. some people have that but it does change your life a little bit to have your face known. c-span: do you have that bug? >> guest: to be on tv? no. i get offered the chance for a tv show and it doesn't interest me. i did do -- i tell you, my interest in television was caught at thized by the b -- caughtized by the bcc, and my wife and i lift in europe and did document riz for the bbc to

pay for a house renovation, and i had to be on camera all the time. it was a documentary, and i loathed it, because the interesting bits of what i do is learning about something and communicating it in word. then having to get the pictures to go with and it stand up in front of the camera -- it's unbelievably tedious. and if you don't have a picture of it, you can't communicate it on tv. i'd rather create the picture out of words. so i don't particularly like it. i've had to get used to it because when you go on the road and sell a book, a lot of it is tv. >> can't avoid it but it's not something -- i don't think i'm particularly good at it and don't like it. c-span: i picked a paragraph, page 68. i want you to interrupt as we go. i want you to define this stuff. you even say in a footnote. if you have gotten this far -- i can't remember where -- how -- god bless you. i'm going to read this and just -- doesn't have to be long explanations but to try to get

through and understand this language. >> guest: the jargon. c-span: the subprime mortgage market was generated half a trillion dollars worth of new loans a year but the circle of people redistributing the risks that the entire market would collapse was tiny. go back to subprime mortgage. define it. sure. you know what a mortgage loan is. you borrow money to buy a house. a prime mortgage loan is to someone who has a -- to' borrower with a credit score over a certain number. credit scores are supposedly measuring the likelihood you'll repay your loan. a company called the fair isaac corporation that generates a fico score, that tells you -- suggests what the likelihood is. above different definitions but above about -- a scale of 800, above 660 is a prime mortgage. below 660 is a subprime

mortgage. c-span: it doesn't mean the prime lending rate. >> guest: no. the person doing the borrowing. c-span: when the boldman sack sales pom called mike berry ask told him her firm would be happy to sell chunks, barry guessed rightly that goldman wasn't on the other side of the bet two things here, the credit default swaps. >> guest: sure. this is the mechanism that is created in 2005 to bet against the subprime mortgage market. a credit default swap is an insurance policy on a security. so, if i buy a credit default swap on a subprime mortgage and i'm buying it, i pay you -- you're the seller -- a premium, insurance premium. a couple of percent a year, and in exchange, you have to pay me the whole value of the subprime mortgage bond if the bond goes

bad. i bought insurance on that bond, and the general idea is that people who own subprime mortgage bonds might like to have the ability to buy insurance on them as a hedge. it's a silly idea because you can just not buy the subprime mortgage in the first place if were worried about the risk. that's why this instruments were supposedly created. but the quickly book tools for speculation. instead of buying a credit default swap on a subprime mortgage bond to hedge my risk of owning one, buy just a bet on a subprime mortgage bond publishing and what he is buying is an insurance policy. c-span: you refer to the other side of the bet. >> guest: the other side is a bet. the whole financial system at this moment is organizing itself around a bet. and the bet is, on subprime mortgage bonds, which are essentially just pools of loans. there are a bunch of people who

borrowed money to buy a house and will they pay have their loans or not. and the vast majority of the financial system was betting, yes. they basically are going to repay their loans. and some people bet no. >> host: i want to simplify it even more. i'm going to buy a house guam to a bank -- i go to a bank. your realtor will say i can get you a mortgage with this more company. but you go to a bank and sign on the dotted line and owe them $100,000. then the bank says the mortgage has been sold. who does that bank sell the mortgage to? >> guest: they sell it to -- well, it can be lots of steps in the chain but the simple step is they sell it to a wall street firm that pools it together with other loans and then issues other -- in a trust and then issues bonds off the trust. so the money from you to pay the loan is to some bond borrower and he could be anywhere in germany, japan, anywhere. so he is the ultimate lender.

the ultimate lender is removed from the borrower. c-span: could be guantanamo sack. >> guest: necessary. c-span: i'm now writing checks to goldman sack. >> you don't see that. there's some servicer of your mortgage who is standing in between -- the wall street firm doesn't go and get your money. c-span: goldman would never be so stupid as to make huge naked bets that millions of insolvent americans would repay their home loans, go to insolvent americans -- are you an insolve den how many of them bought these subprime mortgages? >> guest: the dollar volume is unbelievable to put it in perspective, the subprime mortgage loan business does not exist until the mid-'9s'9s so.

mid-'9odd sit has a brief life, maybe 1020, 30 billion dollars a year. [speaking spanish] came from where? who proposed it originally. >> guest: it was -- several companies were born at once. it existed to originate to the loans to find people and to package them into securities and bonds bonds bonds bonds and sell them up a. aims financial and the money store, green tree. these companies don't exist anymore but it was small, tiny. c-span: phil vuto did the advertisement. >> guest: i was too young. the need has to do with what happened in the american economy. but you had lots of people

living beyond their means and using their credit cards to do it. the credit became one of the big changes in american life in the last 20-25 years has been the extension of credit to people who previously had trouble getting it, and the credit card companies got there first. all to loans and credit card companies. in -- and there was an argument that, all right, credit card companies are charging some poor guy who can't make ends meet 25% interest on his overdrafts. on his -- and on his unpaid balances. if we can get that guy, same guy, a loan -- that same guy owns a house and has equity in the house. if we can get that same guy a home equity loan, we can lend to hem -- injure lending to him hat a lower rate than the credit card company because our loan is secured by the house as an asset, and so it's going to be good for everybody because he will pay off his credit card, his 25% per annum credit card

debt, and instead of 10% home mortgage. c-span: who is getting scammed? >> guest: well, nobody should have been. neitherry it could have worked. the probable -- in theory it could have worked. the problem was consumers were poorly protected. what -- the minute that the wall street firms were in the business of harvesting middle class and lower middle class americans for their home equity value and making loans to them against it, there was a natural risk of abuse because just generally, in financial transactions, people are bewildered. the minute they get also complicated they get a lot complicated. c-span: on the politics of this, conservatives point the finger at bill clinton and liberals point their finger at george bush, and others point their finger at barney frank, and some point their finger at fannie and freddie. where do you point your finger?

>> guest: this is really the story i've told, the story of what happened in the private markets without government help. so, in this particular case, it was not -- these loans were not being made because the government said you have to make loans to poor people. that wasn't why they were being made. they were being made because the lender was lending the money, putting -- packaging them and selling them off and didn't bear the risk of the loans not being repaid, and so it was a volume business. they got paid fees for doing the business. so the trick was persuading people to take out loans. some people didn't take a lot of persuading but there were lots of cases where the nature of the loan was sort of disguised from the person who was borrowing the money. c-span: you talked about teaser rates. >> guest: teaser rate ares should be criminal. you talk someone into taking a loan out that has an artificially low rate for the first couple of years so its

looks very, very tempting, and then it skyrockets after two years. c-span: let's go back to the beginning. i can go in and say, here's a rate of 7%. for the first three years, and then -- >> guest: a rate of 2%. c-span: yes. for the first three years. >> guest: and then goes to 13. c-span: the impression is left you can flip this house. >> guest: yes. if they make you that loan, they have turned you into a profit speculator because you're completely dependent on the price of the property going up to refinance the loan. if the value of your house goes down you're stuck with this loan that's going to eat you alive. so let me stop you there you're asking questions that are really -- this pernicious relationship between the high finance and the american borrower is what iseman becomes an expert in and starts to become very, very cynical about what wall street does in this situation. how being were these subprime loans? when we get to 2004 to 2007, in

that period, in that period, there were something like $1.6 trillion of subprime loans made and another 1.2 trillion called at-a loans which they're loans that lack the documentation so the for woer was not -- borrower was not required to provide proof of income so those were subprime, too sew numbers are almost $3 trillion of loans that were dubious. c-span: mines is sitting there -- iseman is sitting there buying what? >> guest: first setting there investing in the stock market with his little hedge fund, but then seeing this explosion of lending again in these the beast he thought he had slade in the '90s, subprime mortgage, and he said is it going to end badly. i know how this business is done, and it's a sinister business. and so he starts to try to learn

about the bond market. the market that is creating this credit. and he and his colleagues are starting almost from scratch. they don't know about ratings agencies or what a credit default swap it. they learn you can actually make bets against these loans, and he thinks the loans are going to be bad so he makes a massive bet against the loans. c-span: through the credit default swap. let me go back to this paragraph: he didn't know who or why or how much but he knew that some giant corporate entity with a triple-a rating was out there selling credit default swaps on the subprime mortgage bond and here's this language: the triple-a rating. i think one of my biggest shocks is when i woke up and saw that moody's and s&p dish know nothing about these operations, have been slapping these ratings on and none officer meant anything. >> guest: right. c-span: who are they and who is

regulating them? warren buffett owns part of moody's. >> guest: in essence he is owned by mcgraw hill. so they're both public corporations. their job has been -- they see themselves now -- they'll tell you now, we're just like auto trend magazine for car buyers. we just -- we're journalists. we give our views about the relative trustworthiness of these various securities, relative likelihood they'll repay. ratings were taken far too seriously. they were just meant as a kind of suggestion about the likelihood -- not the likelihood but the suggestion of the way you should order them in your mind prom riskiest to least risky but their place is much more serious than that. they're federally sanctions enterprises that banks have to

reserve capital against their assets and how much they have to reserve against each asset depends on the rating of the asset, and the rating is bestowed on the asset by moodys and standard and poor so their ratings have a huge effect on the ability of institutions to hold these securities. a triple-a rating is what the federal government has. what the u.s. treasury has. so they slap triple-a ratings on piles of subprime mortgage bonds, and then on derivatives culled from the piles, and they were triple-a ratings, hundreds of billions of dollars of bonds that didn't just decline in value-that win to zero. so the ratings in this world end up meaning nothing. c-span: if i bought that mortgage and it moved to -- pick your place --

>> guest: duesseldorf. ikb. german bank in duesseldorf, who things they're being smart investing in subprime mortgage. c-span: and i'm starting not being able to pay. three years i go from two percent to 12 mrs. . >> guest: and my house price has not gone up. i can't refinance and i ham defaulting. c-span: and others are watching this, betting that it will all collapse. >> guest: right. betting it will collapse. c-span: are they risking very much? you go into the billions of dollars they invested and -- let me finish this paragraph. >> guest: sorry. c-span: the paragraph -- >> it's not complicated. i think it's -- well -- my mother understood it. c-span: it's not that it's so complicate. i had an ah-ha moment here and i'm going to read it, trying to figure this out. only a triple-a rated

corporation could assume such risk. no money down and no questions asked. burry, the investor -- >> guest: the protagonist of the story. [speaking spanish] was right, too, butted it would be three years before he knew it. here's where i'm getting. the party on the other side of his bet against subprime mortgage bostons was the triple-a rated insurance company aig. american international group incorporated. 0, are rather, unit of aig, called aig fp, financial products. it was at this moment i said -- i mean, don't invest in this stuff but -- >> guest: i know. c-span: as i saw that, i thought, $180 billion to aig from the federal taxpayers. >> guest: yes. yes. c-span: subsequently they went to bail out goldman sachs and all the rest of them. >> guest: yes. they were bets. they were bets that aig made

this betoo. c-span: why did henry paulsen and ben bernanke want to -- >> guest: why did they want to pay off the gambling debt? c-span: yes. they said the whole country would collapse. >> guest: because all the wall street firms were on the other side of those bets and if aig didn't pay off the bets the firms would have experienced a loss. think of it this way. goldman sack lost on its bet to michael burry but it wasn't -- they thought they were just brokering the bet between michael burry and aig so they paid off michael burry and they're out of pocket and want to get paid off by aig, d they have $13 billion lives not. i'm not defending this. just what they're packing, paulsen and bernanke and tim geithner, if we don't make the wall street firms whole they'll

going to collapse. c-span: and they did. >> guest: they would have all collapsed. c-span: who got hurt? >> guest: not wall street people. the rest of the country got hurt. the rest of the country got hurt by what the wall street firms had been doing the previous five years. generating this frenzy of finance where finance shouldn't have happened. but -- c-span: at lehman brothers who got hurt? i'm out 0 here, just an ordinary citizen, if i had stock in lehman brothers i -- >> guest: yes. if you were a lehman brothers bond holder you got hurt. i if your a lehman brothers employee you got hurt. and that's about it. c-span: you say here everybody at the table, all of them walked away with millions. and you even cite a couple of them. >> guest: yes, everybody but the people at lehman brothers. they still walked away with -- the ceo made many, many tens of millions of dollars that he got

to keep after his firm collapsed. c-span: you howie hubrer. >> guest: this was to me revelation, that first the financial system had organized itself around this bet, and second was, no matter which side of the bet you were on, you got rich. your institution might lose but you got switch. the trader at morgan stanly is regarded as the hub of a little -- of the smartest group of traders and they trade subprime backed mortgage bonds. they acknowledge attachment they're not satisfied making just millions of dollars a year. they want to make tens of millions of dollars so they start to agitate for a piece of the action, bigger piece. they want to bunch good -- be given their own little hedge fund. so they're given it. and it is called morgan stanley

proprietary trading group, and after their setup they make an enormous bet and it's a complicated bet but the gist is they end up owning about $15 billion -- they buy in matter of a couple mornings -- $15 billion of triple-a rated cdos backed by subprime mortgages -- c-span: wait, way. >> guest: collateralize edit obligation. the loans contracted the bonds. the bonds -- the loans go into a trust. the trust is sliced. and that there are -- they're junior and senior claims on the trust. if you are entitled to get the first dollar to get repaid you have less recollection than -- less risk than person who gets

the last bet. the pert who experiences the first losses from the trust, gets a triple b-mine n news rate edmond, and wall street took the triple b minus rated bonds and piled them into another trust, slice that up, and 80% of that it triple-a rated. so what huber buys is essentially pile of triple b rated subprime mortgage bonds, $15 billion and he does this very quickly with goldman sack, and deutsche bank. these bond go to zero. now he has some bets against its so he doesn't lose all $15 billion but he loses $9.35 billion. '$9.5 billion. and i think it's by far the single largest trading loss from

a single bet in the history of wall street. and he walks away. he is allowed to resign. he is allowed to keep his deferred compensation that has not been paid. millions of dollars. and he is rich. and the amazing thing to me -- this is another reason i got re-engaged with the subject -- that had become -- nobody knows who he is. his name is not mentioned. he is just allowed to move on. and 20 years ago, when the trader lost a lot of money he was shamed. he was -- everybody knew his name. this had happened and had been kind of e.r.a. as a private -- kind of regarded as a private matter in a public corporation so was incredible. so i wrote the story. c-span: did you talk to howie? >> guest: not allowed to say.

c-span: you got to these guys and other books have gotten to them but you never see them on television. there's a vision they're all at country club in in connecticut and still have vast millions of dollars, never paid a price, and people all across the united states are suffering because they lost. >> guest: you put your finger on it. c-span: lot their house. the last texas i heart one out of four outstanding mortgages in the country is understand water. >> guest: peer withing through a traumatic period and it's not over. we're at the beginning rather than the end, and there are real structural problems. yes, we're going to -- we're going to be living -- i'm not an economic forecaster, but everything i read suggests we're going to be living with unusually high levels of unemployment, a lot of pain from overindebtedness, quarter of the country is on food stamps i saw on tv.

it's not a great depression. we're not resurprising exactly what happened in the '30s but it's a version of that. c-span: your characters in the book -- i shouldn't use -- >> guest: they are characters. c-span: steve and mike and greg lippmann, who you haven't talked about yet. >> guest: he is the one wall street trader who is actually on the right side of the bet very early on. a subprime bond trader at deutsche bank. c-span: selling -- >> guest: well, he is betting against -- this is where it gets very strange -- here is a trader, senior trader inside a big wall street firm, german bank but a big wall street firm. and his firm is creating these subprime mortgage bonds and creating the cdos and he is saying it's all going bad. i'm going to make a big bet, ans own firm because people are

telling him he is crazy and stupid and wasting money, and he is telling them you're crazy and stupid and wasting money and he is trying to talk people out of buying the stuff his firm is selling. and so he becomes a -- he is an annoying character to a lot of people in his own firm but he is the other principle short seller. c-span: how much of all this is made up just so these people that worked at these firms to take the money whether it's credit defaults or -- all this language the average person -- we can't figure this out. >> guest: the jargon is just generally the complexity, is probably not self-consciously invented to hide what is going on, but that is the effect. and people are happy to have that effect on wall street. it's a very interesting thing. the complexity of the security. if you make it complicated enough no matter how punitively

transparent it is -- a lot of this stuff isn't even transparent. a lot of hidden deals. but you just dissuade the public from taking too much of an interest, and what the only social purpose i had writing the book, mainly just interested in what a great story it was. i thought, if i explain this to people they'll be outraged and they really need to know you. need to know. there's a financial reform bill coming out and people need to know. c-span: you have gotten -- are you aware of all the negative reviews you have gotten in the amazon.com group? >> guest: the people are upset, and kindle. c-span: i thought it was interesting. the negatives in -- outweigh everybody else. let me ask you, did you know this would happen? >> guest: with the kindle?

c-span: yes. >> guest: i didn't think about it. i didn't realize there was that big of a market. it's my publisher's decision. c-span: explain what we're talking about. >> guest: the kindle is amazon's everybody book and allows you to download electronic books, cheaper. c-span: for 9.99. >> guest: yes, instead of 15 for the hardback. the publisher decides when to release the ebook version, and the publishers generally have been often delaying the ebook version because they want to sell the hardback, and it's curious why they make this decision. i haven't figure out what what is going on but i make as much money when they sell a kindle book -- doesn't matter to me. they make as much money. i think they're worried about amazon's market power and -- amazon keeps the right to put the price. they can price it wherever they want. they can take losses on the book if they want to and that is what

is troubling the publishers. c-span: amount 9.99 and you get $15 in a store, more than the 9.99 goes back to the publishers, they do better. i mean, the publisher -- >> guest: so people who own kindle are furious they can't download it. but it's a -- i guess i'll get involved at some point. i'm having a hard time understanding where god gave them the right to have an ebook at whatever price they want, when they want it. c-span: on the day they're talking there are 101 reviews of your book and 56 of them gave you one star. >> guest: because of the kindle. c-span: let me read what they're saying. unbriefable in 2007 michael lewis is writing article praise thing world of derivatives and banking. in fact he dismissed skeptics as being ignorant of the importance of derivatives in redistributing the risks.

in an article criticizing though who showed concern of the stability of the derivatives market lewis referred to them as hims and anyoneys and then went on to dismiss their concernsful fast forward 36 months and he writing a book completely reversing poise position in 2010 he can boldsly knowingly assert that dative riffs caused the community economic freefall. give me a bloody break, michael. >> guest: they're upset because of the kindle version. c-span: this guy, star fox 2020. >> guest: this is what i did do. i write a column for bloomberg news, and i wrote a column making fun of the people at davos three years ago. every year these self-important people go to davos for the economic summit, and every year they say the sky is falling, and i just went back and looked at -- they say they same thing every year. so i made -- i poked fun at the

self-important people at davos coming together to explain our awful things will be and then going back to their roles as central bank governors and not doing anything. there was a line in there that did say -- they we all saying derivatives are the big scary thing but nobody was explaining why, nobody talked about subprime mortgages. derivatives. and so i just said, in theory derivatives are meant to redistribute risk in a healthy way and no one explains why that's not being done. it's true that the naysayers were right but they didn't know why they were right. and the book i've written -- i mean, i'm agnostic about -- i don't make any claims i saw anything coming. just the opposite. i wasn't paying attention. i was writing a book about football and baseball. but the people who are persuasive to me as

diagnosissishics of this event were the people whoa put their money where their mouth was, the people who bloviate all the team mean less to me. because they go on tv to say what they say to get attention and move on and never think what they're telling the next interviewer. so the people in davos made a lot of money betting against subprime mortgage market, and if they really understood it that's what they would have done. c-span: another quickie. janet tavacoli. she was -- >> guest: i don't know her but -- c-span: what did drew to make her mad. >> guest: ien explain. c-span: she says i was in solomon brothers in 1985 training class that michael lewis lampooned. i was surprisees head way shown as a trader -- junior ma'am were

girly men. mere eunuchs -- >> guest: i have gotten too much attention for my own good and this is the backlash of people who have feel i have not gotten enough attention get upset. people, when they interview me about what i did on wall street, can't control how they describe me, and generally in the public's mind, trader is just a guy who anybody works on the trade floor? oh, yeah. i wrote a whole book about howing significants i was at solman. i had never made much effort to puff myself up as a bond trader. she -- that particular person was indeed in my training class, and i think was upset i didn't write about her. she thinks she saw the crisis coming, and i've had some of them. people getting upset because they want the characters in my book -- that's weird to me. i'm sorry. c-span: do you remember the moment that you decided to call it pie the big short" and what

does it mean? >> guest: yes. a little bit of a devious moment. i wrote also magazine article for "portfolio magazine." now deceased. a year and a half ago. when i met steve eyes movement steve iseman was the center of the article, and the phrase popped into my head, great title for the piece, and i said, this isn't actually a piece. it's going be a big book, an interesting story, much more than magazine article here and i kept it in my back packet and the called the piece "the end" or something like that. but -- that's when the title pops in my head when i was working on the magazine piece. what was the other question responsible. c-span: what does it mean. >> guest: to bet against something to bet the price is falling, and this was the single greatest opportunity to bet on prices falling in the history of mankind. c-span: steve iseman and all these guys are hoping, wishing, betting, that the whole thing

will collapse and they won big. >> guest: very mixed feelings. one goes to the sec and tries to get them to take action. all of them scream took high heaven, this instance sane. and iseman says, when it all works out and they're making their money, he says you feel like noah. c-span: how much does he have. >> guest: how much did he make? i don't know. 50 million, 100 million. for investos, 700 or 800 million. c-span: what about burry. >> guest: about the same. span anybody else in the group greg? >> guest: i was told he was paid a ben news of $50 million -- a bonus of $50 million at the end of '07. so they got rich. but iceman -- what is -- mississippi says you feel like mow ya, yaw -- noah, you built the ark and you're going to survive but it's not a happy moment when the flood happens. it's a torn up moment. c-span: we're out of time. michael lewis, as you go to your

six weeks of -- why do you do this? you got "60 minutes" new york one on the list. why run all over the country. >> guest: because they tell me to it's even in my publishing contract i have to give them a few weeks to publicize the book. i sign something that says i'll do it. c-span: thank you for joining us. >> guest: thank you.

>> there's a risk in the bohemian lifestyle and i decided to take it because whether it's an illusion or not -- i don't think it is -- it helped my concentration. it stopped me being bored. stopped other people being boring to some extent. it would keep me awake. make me able to go on longer, prolong the conversation to enhance the moments. if i was asked, would i do it again? the answer is probably yes, i'd quit earlier, hoping to get away with it. ...

>> if you want to subsidize housing and the population agrees it is something we should do. put it on the ballot sheet. make it clear and evident and every everyone aware of how much

it is costing. but when you deliver it through a public company with private shareholders and executives who can extract a lot of the subsidy for themselves that is not a good way of doing it. >> that is a few of the 41 engaging stories on c-span sundays at eight. now available at your favorite book seller. >> coming up, booktv will take you to some of the summer book fairs and festival. emily miller talks about her book on the second amendment. and yourself and your country" "the real crash: america's coming bankruptcy - how to save yourself and your country" and tracy talks about his journey from prison to ceo. and then later rick santorum

with "blue coller conservatives". c-span is providing live coverage of the senate floor and every weekend booktv. the only television network devoted to non-fiction authors. next, emily miller talks about her book "emily gets her gun: but obama wants to take yours" she spoke at the eagle forum collegians summit. from booktv. this is 25 minutes. >> our next speaker is emily miller and her book "emily gets her gun: but obama wants to take yours." emily miller is the chief investigative reporter for the fox affiliate wttg channel 5 in washington, d.c. sh s