there are lobbyists who will protect everyone of those tax loopholes, who will be there morning, noon and night to make sure the buffet rule does not go through. those loopholes stay open and billionaires' hang on to every single penny that they can now get through those loopholes. what have we got on the other side on student loans? all we have god is our voices and our votes. that is fundamentally the best place i can describe the inequality debate in america today. is the country going to be run for the millionaires and billionaires or are the rest of us going to say enough of this? we want to invest instead in billionaires', in our students, take back our country, make our voices heard, make our votes heard? [applause]

>> this event is sponsored by a group known in the united states as the patriotic millionaires, a group of 100 millionaires and billionaires calling for their taxes to be higher. deal have anything like that in europe? >> in europe we usually don't pay much, but sometimes don't get that much in exchange either. it is not perfect and i think each country -- nobody has invented the best system of higher education because we need to find ways to combine efficiency and it is complicated. it is extremely important and

very important, access to education in this country, if you look at the data -- it is getting a little frightening and transparency, maybe more difficult to make progress on that kind of issue but for me viewed from europe, this is getting a bit extreme, the access to education in this country. sometimes equal access has been solved at the expense of more efficiency. i am not sure it is necessarily the right answer. so we need to get more moving in that direction. >> we have a number of questions on a roll of free trade in for

inequality and also the role of organized labor. you don't write much about labor or organized labor in your book and i was wondering what your take on labor's role is, and these free trade agreements are exacerbating by allowing free flow. >> it is clear that low-skilled and medium's film groups are under pressure, that is for sure. in the book i talk a lot about labor unions and one reason the unions are playing the role to say that they used to is the structure has changed, the decline of manufacturing, the rise in production, smaller needs, unions of the past shrunk until the present and

interesting to see the members of countries that choose not to have national minimum wage, introducing national minimum wage in britain and germany, countries where unions used to do the jobs of 10 or 20 years ago when there was no national minimum wage because unions were the right place for different industry in these two countries and introducing national minimum wages, this can be a way to come back to things that more suitable. we need to think about in light of this evolution. >> something more about unions. in america unions help build america's great middle-class.

they do. [applause] and they did that two ways, they did it by getting out and getting workers organize, better working conditions, better pay, and one of the benefits unions negotiated for ultimately worked out for everyone else. they raised wages for union and nonunion workers, got health benefits for union and nonunion workers. but here is the key. the second things union did is they were out there in force to be able to argue for things that were in the interests of working people generally. so unions were on the front line in social security, on the front line in the fight for medicare, unions were on the front line in many of the fights for civil rights. unions are out there to try to

argue for what benefits the middle of america, what benefits working people in america and it is no accident that a big part of what happens with trade policy was that it hit in unionized industries and helps take a lot of legs out from underneath unionized workers in the united states and the consequence is not only economic, the consequence is political in that we see rising inequality at a time when union strength has declined. those two are deeply tied to each other. >> you called for this wealth tax, we have a onetime version of that in the united states, one or two people, known as the estate tax. do we need to go to something more annual?

>> we need both. the estate tax, very important and it is goods if it were not suppressed in this country as ten years ago and something very important in the future. the recent we also need manual tax on wealth is first we all rehab an annual tax on property. the problem with the tax on property is it is proportional, you pay in proportion to the value of your property and also doesn't take into account financial assets or financial liabilities of there are a lot of very huge debts because of this and engage in even be the idea of problems that you have a

house where you are -- a mortgage of 319. your net wealth is only $10,000 and the same property tax as someone with no mortgage and even someone who in addition, would have millions in financial assets. this is a crazy system, do we need to introduce this? how do we make it work better and there is a program that the tax system was created about at the same time, two centuries ago, at this time where property was about real estate, property and land property and financial liabilities, 250 or so, this is not the right way in the 21st

century. if i could rewrite the u.s. tax code right away. i will just take the same tax revenue and property-tax, i will not increase it, i will transform it into a progressive tax of net worth so i would reduce the property tax from 90% of americans's net worth, huge mortgage and huge debt and increase medians -- i have seen for that and it is not as if everybody is going to go to mexico or canada right away. the real problems are the acquisition of corporate profits

and it was the same with the income tax, you could not do anything. then things happened. sometimes things happen so i am not terribly impressed with what will not happen. the tax system will adapt. it may take time but it is the best way to try to make it happen one day. >> how does that bill sounds? >> i am in. [applause] >> in on the notions that we have to rewrite our tax code. part of what you are talking about, estate taxes, it is the fundamental question in this country. which do we think deserves rewards? isn't those who work hard, who smart and get out and makes and

happen, or those who were born into the right families and are protected by a tax code that generation after generation don't even have to work, they get out there and live off of what happened degeneration or tweak the generations before, three generations before. we have prided ourselves as a country being built by a country of people who get out there and work, people who get out there and make it happen. our tax system has to reflect that same value. it has to reflect the importance of work and people who achieve and people who accomplish over being born into wealth. [applause] >> we have time for one more question. i want to read a portion of your book to you.

you write i worry is that we are running out of time. i am determined, seriously determined to do everything i can to help us once again be the america that creates opportunities for anyone who works hard and plays by those rules. your last line i believe in us, what we can do together and what we will do together. all we need is a fighting chance. some people in this room could probably think of something you could do. but you do have a chance. >> you are not eligible for this question, you were not born in the united states. what do you think? >> i do believe in us and i believe in us on days like this.

on all morning lot of people come together to talk about ideas, to talk about two books, because what we are talking about here is economics, we are talking about power but we are also talking about values. this is a moment in time for our country and i believe for our world. moment in time when we decide who we are as the people and what kind of a future we are going to bills. as your book shows, it is tough. it is an uphill climb. it will not happen naturally that the world will even back out. but what it also shows is the disease are not natural forces that make it happen. it is the set of rules by which we govern ourselves and in america, we the people get to

decide what the rules are. so i get how hard this is. this is about concentrated money and power on one side but it is about our values, our voices and our votes on our side. i believe we can fight back, i believe we can win. [applause] [applause] >> thank you all for being here. thank you. thank you. thank you.

thank you. [applause] thank you. >> thank you. [applause] [applause] >> the problem is -- >> we are going to say hello. what is happening? >> nice to see you again. >> thank you. >> hello. hello. very good to see you. she will give me the download later. it is wonderful to see you. this is a great day.

>> i know. i am sure -- >> nice to see you. we are going to do it. thank you. i am so glad you are here, thank you. very nice to see you. how are you, dear? you are doing well? very nice to see you. how are you? checking up on me. it is so good to see you. [inaudible conversations] >> i will read it. i promise i will read it. >> and organized system.

something i could say. >> all right. let me read about it. i will -- very nice to meet you. thank you for being here, thank you. how is that? >> thank you very much. >> you are most welcome. >> it is good to see you, thank you for being here, thank you. >> tell us about that. >> i do know. three and little kids right now, i am starting a business. thank you very much. >> thank you very much, very nice to see you. in washington -- only took seven months.

>> what a crazy place, thank you very much. >> it is certainly under his belt. >> the primaries. >> i watch it. we are getting this revolutionary state. thank you. how are you? good to see you. okay. oh my goodness. >> it is good to see you. what a nice ring, thank you. thank you very much. >> keep it in cairo. >> okay, thank you both, thanks very much, thank you. >> it is going to be this process. >> thank you. thank you so much, thank you.

thanks for being here. good morning. >> not at all. a full stop here. we look pretty good. thanks for being here this morning. >> thanks. thank you. thank you for being here this morning, thank you. thank you, thanks for being here, thank you. every time i see i am thankful for every door. really proud of that. thank you. >> i am from oklahoma. >> thank you for being here. very nice. >> i love to sit on your next campaign. >> fabulous, thank you. i appreciate it, thank you for being here, thank you, i appreciate your being here,

thank you. >> with congress returning monday here's a message to congress from one of this year's stephen -- c-span student can competition with his miss >> genetically modified to maters, corn and soybeans but corn and soybeans are the most commonly >> according to the usda approximately 90% of all corn and cotton, 93% of all crops planted in the united states are genetically modified. and despite suggestions of a noble intent -- >> genetically modified rice to treat the vitamin a deficiency is. >> people starving in africa and if we can get them the food that they need, i say why not? >> safety and nutritional value is inconclusive and highly disputed. >> no difference if you a regular food. it won't improve your life or health, nothing different. as long as --

>> who is responsible for determining whether or not gm foods should be labeled, banned or simply ignored? you decide. >> join us next wednesday during washington journal for the theme of the 2015 c-span student can documentary competition. >> in his book "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america," cal thomas talks about government dysfunction and political gridlock. he was at the chicago tribune printer's row lit fest and was interviewed by the tribune's christian -- kristen mcqueary. this is 40 minutes. >> thank you for coming. six weeks ago i received an e-mail in my in box asking if i would like to interview cal thomas as part of printer's row lit fest and of course i immediately said yes. in my 20s i disagree with him

very much. but i kept reading and when you read cow you find yourself months and even years down the road thinking about something that he wrote. that is the imprint of a gifted thinker and writer so without further ado, cal thomas, your book "a fighting chance" 15, focuses on years of tested programs and we don't need to reinvent the wheel, don't need to reinvent ideas for economic stimulation and job growth, we know what works but instead we are stuck in groundhog day, the movie where the same situation unfolds over and over. in all these years covering washington what would you say are a couple issues or policies that are the most stuck in groundhog day? >> first let me congratulate you on your maturity. i am reminded by your comments of what mark twain once said. when i was 18 i thought my father was an idiot and when i became 22 i was amazed how much he had learned in three years.

congratulations for that. right off the top there are so many answers to that question but education probably would be at or near the top for me. we spend more on public education in the united states per-capita than at any other time in our history and yet all of the surveys show the we still fall behind much of the rest of the world in important subjects like math and reading and science. i don't care if it is a liberal or conservative idea. if it works, if it produces the results the program claims to want to produce i would be for and i would like to get away from this left/right republican/democrat business and start focusing on what actually has produced the results. there is a verse of ecclesiastes that says there's nothing new under the sun. everything you think has been thought before, everything you do has been done before. that is why i use the groundhog day motif. bill murray gets up every day and repeats the same day over and over again with nothing changing.

that is what washington does. we are paying more and getting less for our government and it is a cycle we need to break. >> you talk on the issue of education, school choice quite a bit in the book in your column. we are sitting in a chicago public school. it is lovely, they just built a nice addition but this is a selective enrollment schools and so only a fraction of the kids who want to go here can actually go here. we have been talking in illinois and in chicago about school choice for years. it doesn't seem to get done. we have a charter program but vouchers are so far off of the radar that it is almost impossible so how do you get in a democratically controlled city and state and school choice program? >> first of all, the evidence of school choice working is available for all who want to observe it. the problem is in this area

especially, results don't matter because the teachers unions send money to the politicians to keep the status quo. the politicians of course have a choice, most of them are well off or well-connected enough that they can send their kids to a private school, secular or religious school where they believe they will get the best education. that is what president obama does. get these jimmy carter when he was president sent his daughter to a public school and i congratulated him for his consistency. president obama sends his daughters, and rightly so because the d.c. public school system is not very good, to two of the most prestigious private schools in washington. all i am saying is my liberal and democratic friends who so often talk about fairness and equality ought to offer the same opportunity especially for poor and minority students who are trapped in a lot of failing schools, whose parents want them out, who know a good education is the key to a successful life. i use the analogy i am old enough to remember when alabama

governor george wallace did in the schoolhouse door to keep african-americans out. now lot of politicians are standing in the schoolhouse door of failed schools trying to keep them in. it is and immortality, something the needs to be broken and people need to rise up in chicago. the catholic archdiocese took a survey of parents whose children, mostly minority parents whose children were in the public schools and asked if you had a choice, would you put your child in a catholic school over the public school and the overwhelming percentage shows the catholic school. i would say like moses, let my people go. >> you repeated that line on a radio show yesterday and i was hoping -- i am happy to have groundhog day with you. in your book you reference a previous book you wrote, blinded by might, and is a point that gets lost a lot in the static of washington. i will read it back to you. in blinded by might end in this

book i am not calling for retreat from the public square. i ask only for a more realistic view of what limited things government can achieve and the unlimited power of god's king them. call it enlisting in a better army with superior weapons and by the way, isn't it inconsistent for conservatives to criticize big government and then in another breath to employ it to enact their agenda? that is very important point. what are some specific policy areas or issues you see in washington where conservatives decry big government but then see get out? >> take the last administration. president george w. bush inaugurated one of the biggest government programs ever in the prescription drug benefit. no child left behind, more money for public education. i call this turn to washington as a first resource instead of a last resort. kind of perversion of the twenty-third psalm. the government is my keeper i

shall not want, i walked to the value of the shadow of poverty the health and human services department will be there comfortingly with food stamps, john stossel, a far more libertarian than i am has a wonderful show on the fox news channel on the weekends and he has written this book, i am plugging somebody else's book about why would you turn to government all the time when governments can't even win wars anymore? government does so few things well, sometimes in cooperation with the private sector but mostly the power of the private sector and the power of the individual ought to be supreme and once were. our constitution in the preamble begins we the people, not use the government. we have a $17 trillion debt, out of control government spending and regulation, taxes on success and subsidizing failure and we wonder why we again less success and more failure. we used to praise the people who succeeded and became wealthy.

now we envied them and feel intitled to their income. it is the most amazing turnaround. i feel like i parachuted into another planet from the one i was brought up in. we know the values that work. inspiration followed by motivation followed by perspiration will improve any life. you might not turn out to be a billionaire but you won't turn out to be dependent on government. >> you have written many columns on this subject, government spending etc.. what would you consider the most outrageous expense taxpayers' funds? >> oh my. golly. that is pretty tough. that should be a multiple choice question with the last one all of the above. it is hard to say. here's what i'm calling for. you are probably not old enough to remember this but in the 80s ronald reagan appointed the grace commission, j. peter grace was a businessman and the wanted to conduct an audit of the federal government. most businesses go through audits, they weed out the waste

and fraud and abuse and restructure their business in a way that will make it more functional and profitable but not the federal government. reagan had a great line the only proof of eternal life in washington is a government program and is true. once you create it is almost impossible to kill it. it is easier to kill dracula's and a government program and the analogy is a dublin because those are bloodsucking and disease. the whole idea that washington is capable of doing things better than the individual be an offense to our founders. it was we the people, about liberty and personal responsibility and accountability and so we are spending all of this money on things to fix things that can't be fixed by government and yet people like a cult despite the evidence continue to turn to government despite the results that it can't do what we wanted to do. that is a general answer but there are a lot of things the government ought not to be doing. why is government in housing?

why is government in education? i got a good education before the part of education. why do we need the federal government to educate people? can't even educate itself. >> along those lines we saw a proposal from john mccain and some other republicans that are supporting it to grow the the va system. part of that plan does include a voucher program. what do you see as the best solution for the long term care of our veterans? >> bob beckel and i write a column jointly for usa today as we propose this a couple weeks ago so i am glad senator mccain was listening, reading. the voucher program choices a nestle to go. if your hospital is full and can see a reasonable time why shouldn't you have a little plastic card and take it to your nearby public or private hospital and get the care you need to there? choice works, choice in education, choice in medicine, we have the obama administration trying to take over the health care of the entire united states, just look at the and hsn

the u.k. to see how dysfunctional that is or love va, government run health care. i hope we are not evacuate in. i guess he didn't get the memo to turn off all broadcast devices but anyway, maybe that was the voice of god. >> maybe it was your apps. >> i got that turned off. i follow instructions so again the individual in the minds of the founders was supreme, we have turned nancy pelosi said if you put the democrats back in power we are going to drain the sell-off. they got a power back and they didn't drain the swamp, the bill to hot. >> what would you have done about the bowe bergdahl situation? >> i would not have released -- this is very fresh in my mind -- five killers, five terrorists for a number of reasons. the obvious one they will return to the battlefield, they already said they are, the taliban said this is a great encouragement to us and they encourage their

people to kid that more americans so we can get the rest of the mouth. there's a lot left to be known, interviews with five of his colleagues including his platoon leader, all of them said he deserted. all of them said he was making statements against the war and the united states and he willingly walked off. people are making a comparison, the obama administration making comparison with the israelis and the number of times they release palestinian prisoners to get one or two israeli soldiers back. the big difference is the israeli soldiers were doing their duty and number 2, in gaza and the west bank israel and keep a better eye on these guys than the united states can, sending them back to afghanistan. work has consequences. i wouldn't have made the trade but i think the president sees this as cover to fulfill his longstanding promise to close gitmo. i don't think it had anything to do anything else other than

that. >> he was the only soldier from the afghan and iraq worse. do we leave him there? >> we got a guy in mexico right now who's supposedly made wrong turn, had some guns in his car and has been languishing in jail. we have a christian pastor in iraq who reportedly has been tortured and imprisoned, we have this christian woman who they claim was an infidel but she was never a muslim in the first place, just had a baby. they will let a baby live to be 6 months old before they hang her. two americans being held by the north koreans. of lining up to trade with them? we can't fix everything. if you go to north korea, that is evidence you are an idiot and probably belong in a hospital. who would want to go to north korea, for heaven's sake? we can't fix everything. this is one of our problems. this sounds like a very non

conservative position but i remember john kennedy's great inaugural line the united states is willing to pay any price, bear any burden in the cause of defense of liberty. that was great during the cold war. we now have multiple enemies transitioning various countries and an entirely different approach to warfare than we had then. we can't afford to pay any price and bear any burden. sometimes bad things happen even to good people and we can't fix the bad as far as bowe bergdahl is concerned, yes, we should have left him. >> host: in chapter 9 of "what works: common sense solutions for a stronger america" which i hope you pick up a copy, you point to states that a doing a great job solving their own problems but i noticed illinois is not on that list. why isn't it? is there any hope for us? >> there is a wink at juliet

prison for politicians. no political party has a monopoly on morality or ideas. this is why you need to shake things up and i would say the same if the republicans had been in power too long. you get stayed in your way, and a sense of entitlement and temptation of corruption that comes to everybody in high office, and i become a political environmentalist's. and my favorite line on this. and my friend george mcgovern from south dakota. when he was defeated in the reagan landslide in 1980 he did nothing but public service since coming back from world war ii so he decided to do something different. seeking to connecticut and bought and in and tried to run

it. after a year or so went bankrupt, wall street journal called him up and wanted to know what happened and the whole line you need to know that explains what happens when people stay in office, george mcgovern said if i knew how difficult to run a business i might have voted differently in the senate. you get out of touch, get free haircuts and parking, and what is not to like about that? what we have in illinois is what happened a lot of other states especially the federal government. and you can expect corruption. it is going to happen and it happens here and in the past in new jersey, still does, and new york and parts of california and other states do. when you have one party control or, you are going to open up to more temptation. >> host: one thing i like about your book is not 150 pages of

blasting this issue or that issue, and solutions for regular people, i write editorials, bring the hammer down on something and people are left after they read it. what can i do about it as a citizen and the voter. to find someone trying to make a better life for themselves to volunteer and offered to help them. talk about that and what regular people can do. >> it reminds me of a song. make someone happy, jimmy durant saying it in sleepless in seattle. make just one someone happy, make someone the heart you cling to and then there's this other line, they met you when it comes and goes in a minute. where is the real stuff in life happening to you? we know what works. i was under the notion that you get married before you have children and a partner was somebody in a law firm. std was something similar to

what you putting your gas tank. to make the car run better. when you are a child of the 60s, did you buy into the sexual revolution? free love and all that? know, turned out not to be so free. what about drugs? no. only legal at the pharmacy. did you feel you missed out on anything? i feel like miss out on things all the time. that didn't get a girl pregnant, i didn't dishonor parents or make him sad or angry at me or at her. i didn't get a venereal disease. i'm not bragging. we know what works. we know what is best in life but especially the culture, the media trumpet all this other stuff that contributes to broken lives and a broken society because we are afraid to tell anybody know any more. don't do that. is not good for you. you might offend some class or

group. you should see they hate mail i got, i got a whole chapter on my hate mail. one of my all-time favorites. we have a history, we know what worked in the past. we don't live in the past but let's learn from the past, updated as necessary, to stop this constant bickering with one another which solves nothing. >> the point of your book has a quote that says the old curmudgeonly uncle ignores at holiday time and someone asks him a question any realize he knows what he is talking about, that is cal thomas. that was a quote from jay leno. people in the best describe u.s. curmudgeonly? >> i tried to change that and

leave a. it depends. i called all kinds of things by tolerant open-minded pluralistic academic freedom liberals. name-calling is a way to distract from the argument. i had no political power, not running for office, i had no power over anybody's life. and they have a track record of working and if people want to try them, it is funny because i still remember the songs from high school when i thought, people of my parents's generation were curmudgeonly. if you don't learn it eventually you may have regrets for not learned only. curmudgeon means they'll landing

greek and taciturn and all these other things. i hope i am not like that. i'm a pretty friendly guy. >> i found a better description of you. i went to a source i am sure you rely on often, the zodiac sign. you are a sagittarius. the know that? >> i didn't know that. >> this describes you more aptly. the strength of this had the tories boring is philosophical, wide open curious nature. these folks seek knowledge and truth, eager to share explorations with others. they are optimistic and generous spirit makes them a pleasure to have around. >> i never knew i was that good. that is pretty nice. i was born under the sign of the cross. >> i figured you didn't really follow your zodiac sign. >> guest: they change those lot. i talked to an editor, someone who used to be at the l.a. times syndicate, sometimes they don't

get them in time or throw in an old one. i wouldn't put a lot of trust in those things. you will need a tall dark stranger or your income someday will increase. crazy stuff. >> host: i have a few chicago related questions for you. rahm emanuel in his first term as mayor. >> guest: hopefully is less. >> host: you watched him over the years in d.c.. what would you say are his strengths and weaknesses? >> guest: clearly he is a pugilist, a great asset to president clinton. you get things done better by not being a foul mouthed individual. people who constantly resort to what we used to call inappropriate language before everything became appropriate display a kind of moral

weakness. persuasion is better than beating up on somebody rhetorically. you reveal a certain what my grandparents used to call lack of breeding when you can't use the king's english to make your point and try to persuade, and i find that intimidation bad and a boss intimidate his or her employees by using bad language and i don't think you need it. that is a great weakness of his. what i read in washington, doesn't do a lot to curtail the incredible numbers of murders in chicago. 7 people shot in a laundromat of all places, this seems to be a regular occurrence that hardly makes the news anymore. that is a real serious problem.

people in chicago elected him so they got to live with him. >> host: these are more light-hearted, quiz questions. >> guest: jeopardy. >> host: yes. i didn't throw in any broadway musicals. we put a lot on our hot dogs but there is one common topping forbidden in chicago. what is it? >> guest: that is not fair. i might have had one or two chicago dogs, but probably cheese. >> host: catch-up. >> guest: i am sure the kinds people will be upset about that. >> host: really important question that will determine the future of our relationship. >> guest: a didn't know we had one but i am looking forward to it. >> host: cubs or white sox? >> guest: nationals. >> host: all right, all right.

the correct answer was white sox but you are forgiven. >> guest: i love losers. cubs are great. who doesn't love the ballpark? it is wonderful, the white ball parks are supposed to look. fenway park, wrigley field, great stuff. >> host: as we close i want to go back to your book and give you a chance to talk about what you hope people take away from it and we have time for audience questions if anybody has -- wants to jump in. >> guest: i hope they take away the book and pay for it because the government needs the tax money. mostly we weren't just born today. we are not the first generation to ever exist on the planet. we didn't craw of a cave. we don't have to invent the wheel would discover the use of fire. in my grandparents' generation the generation now we celebrate with d-day, 70 years on june 6th, they respected the elderly. in asian cultures they still do,

respected the wisdom of older people who had experience. the commencement speech next week, i am using as a prop, a guidebook to another country and i say if you are going to another country would be wise and probably would, get a guide book, go on line, find out the hotels you should stay in that you could afford, best restaurants, the tourist sites and you trust the guide book because you know people have been there before you and scope all of this out. you wouldn't just get on a plane without any hotel reservation or knowledge of the city and go there. pretty crazy if you did. that is what life is. people have gone before. let's not have the arrogance we are the only ones who ever lived, and we can learn nothing from the past. let's not repeat the past but let's learn from the past. let's solve our problems, take personal responsibility for our own lives and relationships and

our own children and the schools they go to end the character we model before them. that will produce the most successful life for you and your family and collectively that will have a bubble up affect that will ultimately touch washington. will never have a trickle-down effect especially on moral issues from a bunch of politicians who you may have noticed have difficulty imposing upon themselves. >> host: thank you. questions from the audience? >> guest: they are so overwhelmed and stunned. they absolutely don't know. yes, right there. [inaudible] >> talking financial

difficulties. the printing of state money. and isolationism. you wrote at one point between ron paul's isolationism and intervention, what you should be modeling in the world. they knew what further -- the central issue for israel and the u.s. is iran can be stopped from attack. we must wait until it launches or threatens a lunge. nuclear missile at israel explodes or threaten to explode, quote, who pays bonds in u.s. cities. they are nowhere near mining uranium. they have done nothing to us.

what you are suggesting is we should go to war to prevent a war. i can't think of anything more liberal unless you want to sign up your blood. we should be protecting american blood, keep them here state side. we should be promoting peace and prosperity. there is no question. we opened it up. >> guest: we opened it up for questions. >> now we are controlling? >> guest: i get paid for debates. if you wanted the date call my agent. i don't think what i said in that column is contradictory at all. you remember president bush, the idea of pre-emption is a valid idea. and if we stated it and certainly the radical islamists stated it and show it repeatedly and continued to do so and you don't do something about it, the

ayatollah khamenei in iran the other day saying their objective is the complete destruction of the united states. i don't believe he is kidding. and they wait decades and centuries. >> we talking about -- >> host: i didn't say annihilate them. and an end in 2016. >> obama and bush. >> guest: agent, we will have a debate. >> the one foreign policy? >> guest: we had headline news, no difference between obama and bush, i am going to use that, very nice. >> host: you talk about foreign policy. what works? >> guest: debate on america's role in the world. i agree with the substance of your question. we needed debate, responsible conversation between republicans

and democrats. the old idea that foreign policy debate stops of the water's edge. we have tremendous democrat leaders like senator henry jackson, senator harry truman, mike mansfield who cared more about america. if it came to the choice between their political party and the strength and safety of the united states they would choose their country first. those are the kinds of men of the integrity we need in congress and our political leadership but i think we need to have more of a cooperative effort with our allies. for years we had troops in europe we mostly paid for. south korea since the end of the korean war that we mostly paid for, troops all over the world we are mostly paying for. i think and my liberal democrat friend bob beckel agrees with this, we need to ask them to pony up some money. if you want our troops there you need to start paying for it. france, germany, all these countries in europe we had troops in 3 years and we can't do this forever without more

help from them. then we need to realize and increasingly most americans are, that we are not at war with the nation state. we are at war with an ideology that wants to kill us and they're willing to do it for terrorist acts. the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber, nukes in suitcases, fort hood killer, any way they can to harm our economy first as osama bin laden said was his primary goal, bring the united states done economically, divide as politically and eventually take over. they are flooding our country with immigrants, building their mosques here. i am not saying they are all terrorists but they hide among the good people. this is not something i am making up. if you read as i do the sermons and translations from mosques all over the radical world if you read the arab press as i do you see what their objectives are. if you are living in chicago, i will close with this, living in chicago on the street and three doors down you see a person with a gun breaking into a house and

after he breaks into that house heat comes to the house next door and sees you sitting on your porch and after our break into this house and kill the people i am going to come and break into your house and kill you too. i would say pre-emption would be a proper strategy in that regard and that is what we are seeing now in another area. we either take them out for a store we get taken out. those are the choices in my view. >> host: are there other questions? >> we're two years from a new president and i wonder what your thoughts are, how you might handicap the horse race as it stands right now? >> guest: is always a horse race. not a battle of ideas and many of us in the media fuelled this because it is competition and a battle is more exciting than a real exchange of ideas and improving the country. you know who they are, there is still a debate whether hillary clinton will run. some don't think she will.

she is 69 years old, she has had this health challenge. i don't know if she is over it or not. why would you do that when you have $200,000 a speech unless you want to be in the history books as the first female president so i don't know. on the right, on the republican side you know the names as well as i do. whether they have the strength to persuade sufficient numbers of people to vote for the my don't know. marco rubio, ted cruz i don't think so. they are all out there. we have to decide what we expect from government and we need to expect more from ourselves and less from government and going back to an earlier question, republicans have a tendency to be democrat light, they just want to manage big government. they don't want to dismantle it. it is going to be difficult. any addict will tell you is

tough to get off the drug for the most part and the drug of government is very powerful. you have an entitlement mentality. when you haven't been the mentality, when you think because somebody makes more money than you they a you to be fair instead of the masking them how they made the money and emulate their education and work ethic to achieve something on your own. that is a problem but it is and eat your vegetables moment. it is hard to convince people who would rather be eating dessert to eat your vegetables because they are good for you. i don't know if we are beyond that point because once you say something controversial the cameras are there and they will make mother teresa look like loose woman with the right kind of sound bites and that is the kind of politics we are and why good people don't run for office, they don't want to put themselves through that is someone asked me if i ever thought of running for office and it crossed my mind once but i took two aspirin and laid down for awhile and the feeling went away. >> host: do you see anyone emerging in the republican field

to you see as capable of dismantling rather than sustaining the government? >> guest: you need to show your policies work. the problem with the republicans when they took over the congress for the first time in four years in the house in 1994 as they tried to do too much too soon. you have to prove your ideas and programs work at each step along the way so i have been telling republican governors especially instead of debating this hole poverty versus success thing why don't you get some people who used to be pour, get the on the stage and told the how they became an 4. inspiration, motivation, perspiration. these other things that improve any light and a country. paul harvey's rest of the story in chicago for years, he always had this inspirational story, people born on a wrong side of the tracks, alcoholic mother, absent father, live in a bad neighborhood, ben carson has the

story of this from detroit but they overcame it? how did they do it? those people can do it, so can you. we don't tell those stories and more. we envy people their success so we get less of it. if you promote success we will get more of it. >> host: would you say the republican party is that doing that? >> guest: incredibly bad. one of the reasons is the biggest contributors don't want to hear about it. jack kemp was a great friend and tremendous man, probably the last serious national republican leader. there are others coming along. marco rubio and paul ryan and others are channeling him. there was a line that said jack kemp is showered with more african-americans as an athlete than the 1988 republican convention or whatever it was, probably true. it still seems like a mostly white older party and i think i

talk to one number of younger african-american leaders and they say you have to show up in between elections, show that you really care, you have to help people out of their misery and out of their poverty and i think school choice is the best way to start doing that but you got to spend time in the neighborhood. they don't understand the language or how to relate. it is a sad thing but something they have got to do not just to get a minority moving but the right thing to do, the moral thing to do and gives you a lot of personal satisfaction when you see somebody over come. >> host: we will wrap up with that. cal thomas will be signing books. any questions you can catch us as we wrap up here, thank you very much. >> guest: thank you. >> c-span2 providing live coverage of the u.s. senate floor proceedings or key public policy events.

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