political state, i will create a moderate economy, and here comes a fellow -- pretend like it doesn't happen. you have to deal with that and then you have to try to think of things that are not in the headlines that will prepare for the future. you've got to do all that. i don't think you can decide to get these things. that's one of the things i hope will come out of this program. >> i agree completely with that. i thought stephanie and margaret had a valid point, in that issues change, circumstances change, economist change but there are certain principles that don't. ..

>> the skills necessary to do so. i don't think you can disaggregate 'em. >> let me ask you about the two presidencies involved in this, in this initiative that aren't represented on the stage, and president clinton, i'm going to begin by asking you about 41. even though you haven't written a book that will be out on november 11th. [laughter] about 41. >> no, i think i could put one together, and it'd be ready by -- >> yeah. [laughter] >> be ready for the christmas season. [laughter] >> but you have worked a lot with 41 in your post-presidency -- >> i have. >> and you're known to be very

close with him. what leadership attributes of 41 do you think have impressed you most and are the ones that you want to inculcate through this leadership program? >> when you're dealing with president bush 41, there are a couple of things that are never in doubt, and i think this is really important. his goodwill is never in doubt. and this was true before he was 90. we've been working together for a long time now. we've been out of office a long time. he did things when most people were at an age where they were, they'd stopped doing things. jimmy carter does the same thing. you have got to respect that, people that just -- he's 90. he just went to china to

celebrate the 35th anniversary of opening the door to china. so anyway, when you deal with president bush, you realize immediately that he is a person of goodwill. and that whatever it is he is doing, he is doing because he thinks it's right, and he wants to help somebody. i don't think that can possibly be with underestimated as an attribute. if you don't have that, then everything else you're trying to do is a lot harder. when i was president, we had to -- and i had a republican congress, you know, the people that actually knew me that i had a relationship with that we had done something together on, republicans who supported the irish peace process, for example, it was -- we had a big leg up. i think it's very important when people see that. the other thing, i think, that he had that i believe every leader needs -- and i think he's

got, too, by the way -- we can all do the right thing when we're presented with a problem we know everything about and we understand the main players. but the best leaders have enough imagination and empathy that they can feel the situation somebody's in that they've never been in. and bush 41 is great about that. otherwise, you know, he wouldn't have been out there plunking for the americans with disabilities act. he had pretty clean air up in kenney bunk port, but -- kennebunkport, but he wanted those clean air standards. and when he was a congressman, he was one of the few republican southerners or republicans and, certainly, one of the southerners to vote for the open housing law in 1968. a lot of people don't know that.

why was that? he could always live wherever the heck are he wanted -- the heck he wanted. he could put himself in the position of someone who had a different life with different life possibilities and different life changes. i think that's one of the most important characteristics a leader can have, and he has always been great at that. >> thank you. you're right. >> president bush, same question to you about lyndon johnson. what stands out in your mind about his leadership qualities that you'd like taught through this program? >> i, i met lyndon johnson twice; once when i was visiting my grandfather who was a colleague of his in the senate, and once later on when he'd retired back to texas. he was a big guy. i was struck by how imposing his whole kind of physical being was. and i would suspect amongst the four that his strongest quality

was his persuasiveness. [laughter] particularly to get the civil rights bill passed. it's one of the greatest legislative feats in our nation's history. and lyndon johnson powered it through. i don't think we're going to be able to teach size -- [laughter] but i will think we'll be able to, people will be able to be inspired by his lesson. and, yeah. >> president clinton, let me ask you, you two to talk about each other for a minute. [laughter] >> beautiful. [laughter] >> what in president bush's leadership style stands out for you that you want taught in this scholars program? >> when he decided what he thought was right, he went for

it. and sometimes i didn't want agree with what he -- i didn't agree with what he thought was right. but i recognized that he was doing what he thought was right, not what he thought the politics of the moment required or what the constituencies even within his own party required. you can argue like no child left behind flat around, but one thing it certainly reflected was a concern for the achievement levels of all american students. and ted kennedy supported him on it, as i remember. they worked that out. that was kind of interesting couple. [laughter] when -- and i remember when he said i don't do nuance, and he

got bashed for it. and, you know, i like nuance in cloudy situations, but the truth is sometimes clarity is required. and when he said it, he said it in a circumstance where he thought clarity was more important than being, you know, adding a three-paragraph consult to whatever your decision was. so i actually learned a lot watching him over the years. and i tell young people all the time who agree with my politics that when you look at the top of any organization, every now and then, for example, of all the world leaders i knew -- i never talked to you about this -- but of all the world leaders i came in touch with, i had an occasional lazy person, an occasional not smart person and

an occasional crook. most of them were smart, hard working and honest. and whether i agree with them or not, they did what they thought was right. and so i think watching how they do it is very helpful. president bush, in different ways from me, but both of us -- me, because i tend to look like i'm real nice and him because he used to make fun of himself -- you always want today underestimated by your adversaries. he consistently benefited by being underestimated -- [laughter] and so did i for totally different reasons. and i watched the way he thought through things and tried to approach them with clarity and decisiveness with great admiration. and if you read that book, you'll understand why -- [laughter] not the one coming out on whenever, his other book. [laughter] i was one of the non-right-wingers involved.

it was a heck of a book. [laughter] >> president bush, same question. >> well, thank you for that, very much. there's a lot to admire about bill clinton. i think, first of all, he's an awesome communicator. i mean, i've always admired that. he can, he can really lay out a case and get people all across the political spectrum to listen. and i think it hearkens back to what you said about my dad, and that is you two have got great empathy for people. and if you have empathy for people like you do, then people are going to want to listen to you. and then when they start listening, you actually can convince them. and you two made tough decisions. i think -- and, you know, listened carefully and decided. one of the things that i often tease people with through the case studies that at some point in time a leader has to decide, and you did that. and you told people where you

wanted to lead in a way people could understand, and it's -- and then made decisions and stuck by them. and so, yeah. is that enough? [laughter] that was a lot shorter than your answer, i know. [laughter] >> you don't do nuance. [laughter] >> but i think equally powerful. >> thank you, josh, yeah. [laughter] former chief of staff, i appreciate you saying that. [laughter] >> so, president bush, i'm going to, i'm going to pass the last question to you. >> okay. >> and i'm going to ask you what advice do you have for president clinton on the leadership qualities necessary to be a good granddad. [laughter] >> be prepared to fall completely in love again.

you're not going to believe it. [laughter] you're just not going to believe the joy. and the fun. and i'm looking forward to talking to you after, after that child is born. and we all hope the very best for chelsea and that the child's health be strong like i'm confident it will be. anyway, it's going to be an awesome period for you, and, yeah, get ready also to be, like, the lowest person in the pecking order in your family. [laughter] [applause] >> gentlemen, this has been great conversation which i think has amply demonstrated that you all are coming together in support of a great program which

will, i think, be terrific for the country both for the substance of what it's going to teach some new leaders, but also for what it will say to the country. please join me in thanking these two extraordinary -- [applause] >> thank you, both. that was fantastic. what a terrific conversation. thank you for being with us today, presidents clinton and bush, and for your commitment to the program. thank you, josh, awesome job. these folks know a hot about leadership and have a lot to say. don't run off, i've got a couple things to say. i want to thank you all again for being here, and in a moment, i'm going to invite you to be a part of the social part of this. also i'm going to recognize, if

she is here, secretary clinton has dropped in. mrs. clinton, secretary clinton, thank you very much for being here. [applause] each and every one of you was invited today because we believe you either are or know a terrific presidential leadership style or prospect. and so i ask you to help spread the word. this program will only be successful with a great group of leaders. the program is aimed at working professionals who will come together largely over weekends for about a six month period beginning in the early part of next year. you can find out a whole lot more about the format on our web site, w, -- www.presidentialscholars.org to nominate a scholar or yourself. we have great hope for this program and what it will mean to our country. now i invite you to join us on the seventh floor terrace outside for a little social time. thank you all. [applause]

>> and we now join health and human services secretary sylvia burwell. she's at george washington university. she started her remarks about three minutes ago. we join it in progress. >> leadership and management. what's central to all this is not politics, it's progress. setting aside the back and forth and instead choosing to move forward. i'm a parent, and when i think about the moms and dads sitting around their kitchen tables trying to make big decisions for their children, they don't care whose idea something was. you don't have time for that. when you're trying to figure out how to pay the electric bill or how to pay next year's tuition or how to get the kids to get the homework done, you just want results. and you expect folks in washington to look for the common ground necessary to deliver. this is the approach we bring to

big challenges that we face. at hhs. each of us finds our own leadership and management philosophy in our own way. i learned fundamentally about the importance of relationships growing up in a place where my mom knew the one day i was tardy for school because i was late for the nine a.m. class she was teaching. the values i learned growing up in a beautiful place called hinton, west virginia, are what anchor how i i manage, how i work and even what i work on. you might think about what values and experiences got you here to gw and are going to take you beyond. hinton is the kind of place where relationships and trust matter. the sort of community where neighbors tend to look for the best in each other, and everyone feels a perm stake in -- a personal stake in contributing to the common good.

as i've gone on in my career to manage budgets, including the central budget, i've often thought about how in our smell community every dime -- our small community, every dime counted. people worked so hard for the money they brought home. i watched the parents of many of my friends commute to difficult, back-breaking work in the mines. i saw my grandfather get up to open his restaurant at six a.m. he was a greek immigrant and taught me to be grateful for the gifts this country brought to my family. his restaurant was the english transaction lakes of -- translation of his name. i learned about customer service and delivering results at kirk's, home of the hungry smile. if you were the person who got stuck dipping the hard serve ice cream after sunday church services, you just smiled and kept on dipping until every last

cone was dipped. and it was pretty simple to measure results. if you were asked to deliver two scoops of maple walnut and you gave someone a scoop of strawberry, you didn't deliver the maple walnut result that customer wanted. service in the community was also important to my mom and dad, and i think that's why it's so important to me today. mom was the president of the church women, she was a member of the business and professional women, she was a member of the service club, and she was on the state board of education. dad was in the lions' club, he was in the elks' club and was always the trait education in the citizenship pageant. and at halloween you had to trick or treat for unicef before you could trick or treat for candy. fast forward a few years, and i still draw upon these values and experiences whether it's putting the customer first, valuing

service or looking to the find the best in others even when you don't agree on everything. i've been fortunate in my career to be a part of organizations that are very good at strategy. i've always been parts of organizations that are very good at execution. i believe in leadership and management that are good at both strategy and execution. because this is the difference between great ideas that change lives and those that don't. my management philosophy is built on three principles; impact, prioritization and relationships. now, i've said the word "impact" quite a lot already. it's why i do what i do. when we tackle a problem at hhs, i make sure that we set out a clear definition of impact from the beginning. what do we hope to accomplish and who do we hope to accomplish it for. i think a lot about those moms and dads at the kitchen table

and how the actions we take will impact them. they are our boss. and so are young women like sa van that goodland who had to wait tables on a broken ankle that she'd wrapped herself until she got health insurance. so or our neighbors who are beating addiction and so are our children who are attending head start. our boss is also the taxpayer, people like those minders from hinton -- miners from hinton work hard for their paycheck, and they deserve a government that works and is strategic and efficient in spending their hard earned tax dollars. that's one of the reasons that prioritization so important to me. because setting priorities and staying focused are how you get to efficiency and impact. determining what options are available, what policy levers are there, what will they do, what you're good at and what your partners are good at. all these things are the things that make government work.

in order to deliver which levers and initiatives are the most efficient and effective, we're data-driven at hhs, and i'm a big believer in metrics, benchmarks and analytics. if you're serious about delivering results and looking out for the taxpayer, you need to know whether what you're doing is actually working. all these things have something in common, they need great people to make them happen. and that starts with building teams with talent and focus necessary to deliver the impact that the american people expect and deserve. so my very first days at the department i've been working to retain the great talent that was already in place and recruit more of the best and the brightest to join us. as far as our external relationships, i'm a big believer in the old to cliche: relationships are built on trust. transparency builds trust, and

it's something that we take very seriously. even if the numbers respect quite where we want -- aren't quite where we want them to be, we're going to tell you about it. take, for example, our recent announcements about the numbers of consumers in the health insurance marketplaces who have citizenship-based data-matching issues. it may not always make for the best and most attractive press release, but we believe that you build trust by sharing the news, both good and bad. we also believe in the power of good ideas, and we understand that nobody has a monopoly on them. that's why active listening and being responsive are so important. hearing ideas, input and feedback and putting them into action wherever possible. i've told my taffe we should -- my staff we should work toward the goal of returning letters we receive from congress within 30 days no matter who they're from.

now, many of the best ideas come from all different sectors of our society. i've been blessed with the opportunity to work across a number of different sectors doing everything from scooping ice cream to leading walmart's efforts to feed needy families to leading the efforts at the office of management and budget. along the way i've learned to have respect for every sector of our society and to believe strongly that there are really more things that we have in common as americans than we have that are different. that's why when we hear good ideas from the other side of the aisle, we want to listen. so when republican congressman fred upton asked me to join him for a discussion on 21st century cures later this week, i said, sign me up. one of my first meetings as secretary was with the governors of both parties. i said to them, if you're finding our department isn't being response i, i want to know about it -- responsive, i want to know about it.

i also told them that i hoped to work with them regardless of party to bring more states into the fold on medicaid expansion. and recently, we were able to do just that with the state of pennsylvania that has a republican governor. hundreds of thousands of people can now get the health care coverage they deserve as a result. the fact of the matter is there are always places where we can work together. there's nothing ideological about curing cancer. there isn't a democrat or republican way to solve ebola. there isn't a liberal or conservative approach to preventing suicide. we have the opportunities to work together across the aisle on issues ranging from medical research to global health security to early education for our children. the american people are sending a clear signal that they want us to work together on health care too.

when you start a job like mine, you end up taking a lot of time in the first few months to listen. i was once told that god gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. i can tell you that what i've been hearing over and over whether it's from friends that i talk to back in west virginia to business leaders to elected leaders and to my new colleagues at hhs, enough already with the back and forth. we just want to move forward. what that mom and dad at their kitchen table really want to know is what kind of coverage is available to me and my family? can i afford to it? and is it any good? what i hear from business leaders is that they're in the same place. they want to work together on solutions while making our care better and investing dollars wisely. they want a better health care system, and so do we. so what i've told my team at hhs

is that we're not here to fight last year's battles. we are here to deliver on affordability, access and quality. surely, these are goals we can all agree on no matter where you happen to live, whether it's west virginia, washington or wyoming -- wyoming or washington state. by these metrics the affordable care act is clearly working. health care is more affordable for families, businesses and for our economy as a whole. coverage and services are more widely available for more people. doctors and hospitals are delivering better care to their patients. as we've said all along, we can do more, and we can do better. the affordable care act is not about making a point, it's about making progress. it's about leadership and management, defining our goals,

putting the right teams in place, setting the right priorities and building relationships with anyone who wants in; consumers, issuers, providers, elected officials, faith leaders, civic organizations. we want to work with people across our country and across all sectors on priorities we can all get behind; helping more americans get covered and stay covered, making health care more affordable for more families, making sure that healthcare.gov meets the standards the american people expect and demand. expanding medicaid, working with doctors and hospitals to deliver quality and affordable care, working with insurance companies to offer more choices to more people in more regions of our country. so what you'll be seeing from us in the days and months ahead is

an open invitation for partnership and a call for good ideas no matter where they come from. we'll be looking to build and strengthen relationships with anyone and everyone who shares our passion for helping americans obtain the building blocks of healthy and productive lives. and we'll insist that actions we take are managed well with an eye on protecting the taxpayer and delivering impact for the boss. let's move beyond the back and forth, let's move forward together. thank you. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, the secretary will now answer a i few questions by george washington university students. would you please welcome to our stage seth gold, class of 2016, from the milliken institute school of public health. >> good morning, madam

secretary. on behalf of the student body, i'd like to congratulate you on your new role as secretary of health and human services and thank you for being here this morning. i'd like to kick off our q&a with a personal question, if you don't mind. you mentioned that you're a mom. do you have any tips on how to achieve the ideal work/life balance? >> well, i think ideal is something that i'm not sure any of us hit. but in terms of an approach to this, one of the things that i think is important hearkens back to something i said in the speech about prioritization. and the prioritization that one does in the work so that you understand the key things that you're focused on, and that prioritization for the work, i think, is one of the things that helps put the work in the order that it should be and contain it in a way. there's the other part of prioritization which is making sure that people know that your family is a priority and being clear about that articulation. these are the parameters and this is how i work.

the other thing that i would add is that i'm very fortunate to have a great partner in my work/life balance in my husband and my children in terms of effort. and the last thing i would just add is i talked a little bit about people in my remarks and how one wants to build great teams. and because, actually, i've held four jobs in the last four years -- you might think i can't hold a job. [laughter] but, so that means i've started and built teams a number of times, actually, in the near term. and one of the things i have found is that actually valuing this, this question of respect for family and respect for those things is an incredibly important part of recruiting high quality people. because often some of the best people that you want are people that care about these issues as well. and so it is something that i am seeing as i continue to do recruiting. but keeping that as a priority

for me and articulating it and managing teams in that way is something that helps with recruiting. >> wonderful. this question was submitted by stuart portman, a graduate student in the milliken institute of public health. it's a little long, so please bear with me. [laughter] as a graduate student working towards an mph in health policy, i am learning to blend political feasibility to best address the concerns of the population. much has been said about partisan divides and the inability to find common ground. as a part of a new generation of health professionals, i reject this as status quo. how does improving communication between yourself and congress -- something you discussed during your confirmation hearings -- work to better the relationship between you and hhs and legislators? furthermore, do you believe that improved communication about policy goals can correct many of the misunderstandings in today's health environment? >> thank you, stuart. so i think i spoke a little wit

to this issue -- a little bit to this issue in the importance of relationships as i talked about one of the biggest priorities that i believe that as a manager i need to have. and the issue of relationship, i think, is important for a number of reasons. and i will admit when i was younger, the idea that i would put relationship as one of the core goals was something that would be foreign because it was a means, not an end. and so analytically, i wanted ends in terms of goals. but this is one that is important enough that as i have gotten older and had more experience that i believe is incredibly important. and it gets to a little bit of what was in stuart's question. the issue of having relationships is a hot about how you share and -- is a lot about how you share and move information. because one of the things that i find as we try and work through things in this town where things have gotten incredibly contentious at times is can we all start with the same fact base? often we're not doing that. so if we can at least get to the level where we're starting with

the same fact base, we may have different ways of interpreting those facts. if you can start that you're on the same fact base and if you have a relationship enough that you can have a conversation that you actually know where the two of you disagree and that's a lot of how one brings things together. and that relationship is also about trust. and off -- often to get to solutions whether in the private sector or public sector, it's about negotiating. some people might use the word "deals." but in doing that, that idea of trust. the if you think about what ms. murray and mr. ryan had to do last year to negotiate the deal we had on the budget, a lot of that actually was about them building that relationship of trust. because they were carrying on both sides all the needs and desires of their teams on both sides. and having that relationship and trust is an important thing, i think, to finding the places where one side's not going to get everything, the other side's not going to get everything.

but we can find a path that gets us to move forward. >> wonderful. this next question comes from angela rick, a graduate student. and she asks: your background and previous experience are different from those of hhs secretaries before you. how does this make your approach to the job different? what do you see as your biggest challenge? >> so i am a bit different from previous, most recent previous secretaries and probably a little more similar to secretary chalet la from a number of years ago in terms of my background, not being an elected official. and so i think my style, approach and what i bring to the department is a little similar to secretary chalet la. and i've spoken to you about that in terms of those priorities and how i think about managing and running and leading the department. i think also, though, one of the things that's important -- and this gets to challenges d one of the first things i did was to

call all of the other former secretaries so that i can make sure that i could learn from them and understand the things and places where they think my background might have some spaces that listening to them and learning there them is important. and whether that is my direct predecessor who i've spent an enormous amount of time and am grateful for all her help and support, secretary sebelius, but also secretary re visit, secretary thompson and others, actually each going back to secretary sullivan from many years ago. so that's how i'm approaching this issue of challenges. the other thing of the question was about challenge more broadly. i would just say having been at the department about a hundred days or getting close to, one of the biggest challenges is how to make sure that in a short period of time, two years, four months and a few days, that we take advantage of all of the potential opportunities of the department and how do you create an organization that can

maximize for that. and that's one of the things i think is one of the biggest challenges. >> wonderful. tim -- [inaudible] a health administrative student from the milliken school of public health asks: from a public health perspective, prevention is much less expensive than treatment. what barriers keep us from the key means of preventing decides? how do we overcome these barriers? >> so the issue of prevention is one that i think is tremendously important, and it's -- we're at a critical place as we're thinking about changing our health delivery system to one that is less fee-based and more impact-based, because i think we know the importance that prevention plays in that both in terms of how we'll save money and how we'll get better results. but one of the questions i think is it is not always easy on the prevention side. and my experience through a number of experiences whether it's at gates or at wal-mart is

when you think about prevention, the first thing is people have to have the knowledge. so let's take, for instance, healthy eating. they need to actually know what healthy eating is. they need to understand how that's defined and what that would mean eating. the second thing is they need the tools. and the tools come in various forms. some people don't know how to fix fresh vegetables or haven't used them before. you know, think about if you've never really cut a pineapple or each a pom gran net, how do you get all those seeds out? even your day-to-day things that people may not have experienced. so tools. and tools also come in the form of affordability. so many of the things we're trying to teach communities about prevention and healthy eating, do they have access? are they in a food dessert? are they -- desert? are they in a place where they can afford the fresh fruits and vegetables they should be eating? and the third thing is culture and behavior change.

and probably be we did a little survey here, did everybody get up this morning and exercise? and did everyone eat, you know, a serving of fruits and a low-fat -- you know, we could go through it, and i'd say most of the people in this room are good on one and two. but each those of us who -- even those of us who have those things, and so it is about behavior change. and so to get improvement, i think we all have to as a nation and not just as the government, but as communities and individuals, we have to work against all three. >> wonderful. and you just made me feel a little bit bad, because i did not work out or eat my fruit -- >> i hope everybody had breakfast, at least. [laughter] >> sorry. and then this final question does come from me. what is the biggest surprise thus far there your career as secretary? >> so the question of the biggest surprise in the first 100 days, actually, there's

been, you know, a recognition of the magnitude and the volume that we've had, and that's not really a surprise, it's just whether it's unaccompanied children, many of you all know we've had 12,000 care in the department of the health and human services at one point. many of you are probably familiar with ebola. and that really wasn't a surprise. but i think, interestingingly, the surprise has actually been a positive one, and i've been very, very fortunate to have the chance to work in organizations where people have real passion for their work whether that's the gates foundation, working on hunger at wal-mart, working in government, but what is actually surprising is the extent of the passion for their work at the department of health and human services. so as i go out and meet with each of our operating divisions -- the fda, our organization that does substance abuse and mental health and all these organizations -- to a person every person i talk to tells me that their work is the

most important work in the department. and i welcome that because that kind of passion, i mean, including a note from a librarian who wanted to make sure i understood what she and her library had to offer within the hhs system. and so it is that passion. i knew that people were -- [inaudible] but i am surprised by the level of passion and intensity that i meet everywhere i go in terms of the hhs staff. >> wonderful. thank you so much, madam secretary. on behalf of the entire george washington university community, i want to congratulate you again on your new role as secretary of health and human services and thank you for sharing your leadership view with us this morning. and i especially want to thank you for bringing your message to gw and giving the students of this university an opportunity to directly engage with you. as we are shaping our own public service futures and developing a deeper understanding of the challenges we face both nationally and globally, we will

look to you and leaders like you not just as role models, but more importantly, as teachers. we learn from your actions, we learn from your leadership, we learn from participating in events like this today. being able to ask you questions directly has been an extraordinary opportunity for the students at the george washington university this morning. i know i speak on behalf of all of the gw community when i say that we hope this morning's event and q&a session with you is the first of many ongoing direct considerations between you -- conversations between you and the students here at george washington university. madam secretary, thank you so much again. [applause] >> thank you, seth, very much. and thank you all for having me today. it was a pleasure to be here. thank you so much. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> and if you missed any of ms. burwell's remarks, we'll have them up at c-span.org. check out the video library. and on capitol hill today, lawmakers are back from their summer recess. the senate will be in at 2:00 eastern with a series of confirmation votes after 5:30 including one of longest pending judicial nomination ever in the 123459 to the 11th circuit court of appeals and three nominations to the social security advisory board. the senate's also expected to take an initial vote proposing a constitutional amendment limiting campaign contributions. and the house is going to be in at 2:00 eastern as well working today on a number of suspension bills including a bill to increase penalties for id theft and a memorial proposed for slaves and free blacks who fought in the revolutionary war. you can watch the senate right here on c-span2 and the house live over on c-span.

also in washington, d.c. today the newly-confirmed secretary of veterans affairs, robert mcdonald. he just wrapped up a month-long trip visiting v.a. facilities around the country speaking with veterans and employees about improving health care, and his remarks are underway right now. you can catch that on our companion network, c-span. and today's white house briefing expected to start at 1:00 eastern. we'll have that live on r span as well. >> congress back in session, here's a message to congress from one of this year's c-span student cam competition winners. ♪ ♪ >> water, it takes up 75 percent of our bodies. take water away, and humanity would perish within a week. water is the vital substance to a human body, yet it is because of us humans that nearly 50% of all streams, lakes, bays and estuaries are unsuitable for use due to pollution.

in the u.s. we have learned to take water for granted. faucets, bottled water and flushed toilets all reinforce the same idea; water is an unlimited resource. but step outside to our local waterways and their diminishing condition tells a different story. water pollution kills marine life, destroys ecosystems and disrupts an already fragile food chain, and animals are not the only ones that suffer the negative effects of water pollution. congress, in 2014 you must provide federal funding to wastewater treatment agencies across the country. the life blood of our nation is anticipated with the -- [inaudible] -- tainted with the -- [inaudible] of generations, and it must stop here. >> join us wednesday during "washington journal" for the theme of the 2015 c-span student cam documentary competition. >> next, the islamic society of north america's annual convention held this year in detroit.

in one of their sessions, they looked at the influence of muslim-american culture on young people and on americans of other backgrounds and religions. you'll hear from faith leaders, activists and journalists over this next hour and 45 minutes. >> thank you so much. [inaudible conversations] >> thank you so much, everybody, for coming out tonight. we have a wonderful panel of speakers, and we're hoping that this is going to be an informal discussion, but one in which we can really be open with each other and really explore not only culture, but where we as muslim-americans are headed in the future. so, first of all, we're going to begin each of our panelists has been given a question ahead of time, and they prepared a brief sort of response to that, and after they are all done talking, we're going to do follow-up questions. and in addition, if you guys have your cell phones, please --

turn them off. we don't need any sounds disrupting. but if you have twitter, we're using the hashtag isnaculture. so if you have any comments or questions while you're listening, please post those, and we'll go through and address them as well throughout the conversation. so we're going to start off this evening over here to my left, an activist scholar-artist whose work explores the intersection of race, religion and popular culture. currently, she is assistant professor of anthropoll and african-american studies at purdue university. she received her ph.d. from princeton and is a graduate from the school of foreign service at georgetown university. she has published numerous scholarly writings and has worked on artistic endeavors including as a consultant for the documentary new muslim cool and as a published poet.

you can also find her on the cover of a magazine this month where the focus is on an in-depth look at discussions about race in the american-muslim community. a brooklyn native, she's unashamedly black and unapologetically muslim. please welcome her. [applause] >> okay. [speaking in native tongue] so i want to first thank miriam for the great introduction and also -- speak speak tongue for the invitation to participate in this conversation tonight. so miriam asked -- should i read the question or -- >> [inaudible] >> here, read the question. [laughter] >> okay. forgot to ask the question. so what i wanted to know is what is the basic premise of culture. and not just sort of the basic premise of culture, but jumping into our present day and

exploring what we are currently seeing with the next wave of american muslims. it seems as though they're testing boundaries and expressing themselves in ways that 20 years ago would have been deemed quite controversial. so what's going on? >> all right. so i'd like to begin to answer that question by really addressing a fundamental misconception that dominates the ways american muslims talk about culture. and this misconception is this idea that we are in dire need of an american muslim culture. and the reason why i say this is a misconception is because we don't need it, we already have it, right? we are already doing american muslim culture. and this is because, you know, culture is about meaning making, right? it's the way human beings make the world make sense. so culture is made in the values we attach to those things that we can see, touch, taste, hear, feel and also those more sort of

abstract and symbolic things like ideas and concepts to be drop -- developed. so culture is made by living. and so the minute people live in this place that we call america as muslims, that is the moment in which we begin having american muslim culture. at the same time, however, i think we also want to their this notion of american muslim culture in two ways. so, first, we want to think about sort of american muslim culture with the capital c on culture, right? and these are the sort of cultural things that we share across our differences of race, gender, class and so on, right? and then there's the second level of american muslim culture, right? american muslim cultures, right? because this plural form is necessary because of our diversity, right? and so there are many different sort of cultural forms that may look different, right, for different communities. so take an example that happened here at isna i think last year,

right? so last year isna, the chaplain at northwest university read the quran in a mixed gender audience. and i think for organization and the communities that's attached to it, this was a new and sort of groundbreaking sort of thing. yet in other communities, right, such as the community of -- [inaudible] mohamed, i don't think there's ever been a moment where a woman was denied the opportunity to recite the quran in front of men and women. so while we celebrate isna's leadership on that particular choice in this particular community, we don't identify it as this new thing, but rather sort of a shift in one american-muslim culture that is representative of an extension of american-muslim culture with a capital c, right? and at the same time, we don't lose sight of the fact that

gender inequity, right, is a persistent problem within american muslim culture with a capital c, right? so whether it's in a community like isna or other communities, we still have challenges in which how many women are on a panel, for example? or things that are much more harrowing like the silence around domestic violence, right? so gender inequality is a challenge within american muslim culture with a capital c, right? likewise, you know, i think you didn't mention this, but in the question that you gave, you talked about some examples, right,over of things -- of things that this new wave you called it of muslims that are doing that is sort of testing boundaries, right? so you might have, for example, a young african-american muslim woman who decides to to wear her scarf, right, to tie it in a turban-like style. and it may be very true that in

her particular arab community she is testing a boundary, right? but she is not doing something that is new, right? despite the fact that, you know, "the new york times" might like us to think so, right? [laughter] and miriam's laughing because i think i posted on facebook like how many times can they write the same article, right? american muslim women like to look nice, you know? [laughter] and every sort of corner they're discovering this again, right? so this way in which, you know, we want to sort of identify shifts that happen in communities, we want to understand this notion of american muslim culture and what that is is someone that has always been in existence and continues to exist as long as we sort of live in this place that we call america, right, as muslims. and also we want to pay attention to the fact that there's something much more powerful about a narrative of american muslim culture that is one of continuity, that's one in which this arab or american

muslim woman is -- [inaudible] a choice from her african-american counterparts. then this narrative of, oh, look, i woke up one day and decided to put myself in a turban, right? [laughter] and more importantly, i think, for me the question that i'm interesting in asking or the question that i'm interested in posing, right, is what kind of boundaries are being tested? right? are people testing boundaries in ways that are just remixing white supremacy, right? so, for example, does hip-hop become the backdrop to their own pant is city that they're -- fantasy that they're the center of the universe? american muslims now claim to belong because like everybody else, we use black pride as props. so this is my question. and i think in terms of -- and i'm asking that question because in our community and i i think across our differents, there's a lot of anxiety about

representation, right? how we are being seen or featured in the media. and the anxiety is warranted, right? everyone's tired of seeing this kind of, you know, the during ca-clad -- burka-clad woman who's being beat by her husband who eats babies for lunch. [laughter] people are tired of seeing that. but we can't sort of flip one oversimplified narrative for another one. so maybe instead of a burka-clad victim of domestic violation, now we have this kind of, like, uber yuppie or hipster, really cool muslim woman who does all these things, but she's still one-dimensional, right? and fundamentally, she's still when it comes to these questions of culture and race in particular, she still is not -- she fundamentally doesn't believe sort of that black/white matters. like these things are still a part of the story.

and for me i think that what i'd like us to think about, well, the two points that i'm going to close, right? there are two points i make. one point is this question of representation, right? i think people, muslims often around the tick late or advocate for simple representation what this one american muslim scholar called simplified complex representations, right? so they look good, but really if you think about them, they're not really good because they don't shift the status quo, right? so she says, for example, so there'll be a miss -- muslim on a television show. now, the muslim isn't the terrorist, right? it isn't the one bombing the thing, but it's the one calling the fbi to tell that the other muslim is a terrorist. okay, that's great, right? no, it's not great, because the only way we can understand or see a muslim is in the context that there are good muslims in comparison to this bad one,

right? i think we want these representations or want these cultural representations that are better, but, you know, i think we have to sort of -- what do i want to say -- we have to, basically, crush the pipe dream that if we act better, if we look more peaceful, that the people who don't like us will like us, right? and i think from that measure we learned from the black experience, right? african-americans have leshed that respectability -- learned that respect about politics, you can be a harvard university professor x you'll still be profiled by the police, right? they will still shoot you, kill you, leave you in the street and call your community animals because they stand up for your life. these things will continue to happen. so it's not about sort of replacing one overly simplified notion of who we are with another, but i think it's about creating representations or creating cultural production, right, that offers something that is both excellent and of

quality but also demanding, right, and transformative. so i want to give a short example, and i'm going to close with this. so there is a american muslim woman, she's a grammy-nominated artist, and her name is -- [inaudible] usef, and she's from baltimore, maryland. and she did a cover of a song that came out, i don't know, a year or two ago by a young white british woman named lorde. and the song that lorde released was called "royals." and it's like we're not royals. and the song many people read as a critique of hip-hop culture, and in particular black culture and this idea that, okay, all it's about is money and bling, and there's no substantive use to it. and so she covers this song, and she's an amazing singer, and so the song is excellent, her cover. but she also makes a point. and so i wanted to sort of share

the point, one of the points that she makes, right? so he says: we don't know that old true blue blood slave money, war heroes take it to the their grave money, cottop money, cane money, diamond blood staked money. and then she asks, what about that tax money, oil money, africa's rich soil money so thick you can't fold money? british east indian company old money, gold money, limestone coal money. and so what's genius about what she's doing is she's saying, you know, there's a discourse in this country, right, that looks at the toed -- to oppressed, looks at those who have been subjugated, right? and then flips it so they become the responsible for their own situation, right? so you, black people, you don't know how to spend your money. you don't know how to save your

money. you don't know how to be married, etc., etc. and she's like, well, what about that cane money, right? what about that money that was gotten through the enslavement of human beings, right? what about that british east indian company money, right? what about that was money that was given that people the still benefit from today, right, from those who colonize a subjugated people, right? so her narrative here, what's genius about it, is that it's both pointing to the particularly creek or responding to the critique that lorde gave through sort of this black urban culture, but also connecting it, right, to the reality of other marginalized people throughout the world. and that, i think, is a genius that is representative of black genius, but also representative of american muslim genius. so when you think about culture and what culture is, what kind of cultures we have and what kind of cultural production we can create, i think this is an example, right, of the kind of

dynamic, ip icive, intelligent and really robust, right, sort of cultural production that is possible for our community. thank you. [applause] >> all right, thank you so much. we did, we did just get a tweet maybe for you guys to kind of think about. it says but muslim cultures should be cultured through the lens of islam otherwise why are we here? our unity means nothing without it. so we can address that after we go through -- [laughter] our panelists. i want to introduce dr. sherman jackson up next, the chair of islamic thought and culture and director of the islamic center for thought and culture on practice at the university of southern california. he's also a core and founding scholar of the american learning institute for muslims. east -- he's published several books and has been named as one of the 500 most influke cial muslims in the world. >>

>> [inaudible] >> somewhat tied into what the doctor addressed. it goes as follows: at the time of prophet, culture was a respected part of life. .. [speaking in native tongue]

i want to start off by saying first of all, that's not quite the question i remember sitting but i will try to respond to it to the best of my ability. i think this is a very complex question and i'm trying to sort of read between the lines, go back and get what i think is actually being offered, and perhaps one of the best ways of doing that is to pick up on something that a doctor said. and that is that we are muslims, and before we are muslims we are human beings. and as human beings there is nothing more natural and cultural production. human beings are naturally cultural producers. and we may draw some

instructions in this regard from something the prophet said, in the collection, there's a phrase with the prophet says that the most truthful, not the best but the most truthful main for human being are you, and they are -- it is the one who is constantly toiling. human beings toil, they work. they occupy themselves with production. and the other is anxious. cultural production in some ways is really about taking the edge off this sort of cosmic injustice that we feel as human beings. this is why the german philosopher once said it is that cosmicosmic fear, you know, we'o become from? why are we here?

where are we going? he said that is the mother of all culture. and all human beings are involved in that. in terms of the whole enterprise of producing culture, i don't think that is a problem because we just as human as anybody else. but i think that we have a number of hangups, if i might be familiar to use that word. and those are as following. on the one hand, we are as an american muslim community in a sense in a transitionary face. in some ways -- transitionary face. in some ways we are stuck between a certain sort of allegiance to what may be called a back home culture, a back on expression of islam. and by the way, you don't have to be an immigrant to have that attachment. many converts are equally attached to that because they

don't know of any alternative to that sort of back on expression in terms of what is likely to be accepted or recognized as quote-unquote islamic culture. and then we have the other side of the equation where we are a bit anxious about this whole business of to readily are two intimately identifying with a sort of cultural production that might be just a bit too comfortable in an american space. and i think that here if i might be permitted to be frank, i don't think there's any point in having any discussion among us as modern muslims that seeks to do away with or ignore the reality of our history. i mean, we are where we are today as a particular moment in history, that is a postcolonial moment. that is a post-slavery moment, and those moments produce their own sort of dynamic.

and part of that dynamic is ensuring that we no longer are seen or see ourselves as the object as some others will. and that can put us in a position where we are not quite sure where to draw the boundary between, this american -- how much of this in reconfig and we -- how much of the back thing must we keep a hold of an how much can we let or dump of indialantic on our way over? so that's part of the challenge that we face. the other challenge that we face -- how long do i have? seven more? the other challenge that we face, you know, has to do with this whole up engaged of islam islamic. and here i think i'm going to shock some people because i'm about to make a 180 of sorts but hope they will still be my friend. afterwards. i think that there is a certain

amount of dissonance from a certain amount of inches, of discomfort about the whole enterprise of cultural production, particularly cultural production in what i consider to be that narrow understanding. by the never understand i've been cultural production that is really sort of about the use and deployment of our unimaginative energy, inventive energies to sort of take as be on the everyday drudgery of everyday life. i mean, this is leisure entertainment. so we think of painting and art, we think that has culture. we think of music as culture. we think of comedy as culture, all right? the way we dress as culture but this to me is culture in the very narrow sense and i will talk about the broad sense any minute. most of our conversation i think

about coulter our culture in that narrow sense. when it comes to culture in that narrow sense, we have still something to reflect and i think twitter, if we want to talk about music, what does islam stand for music would sound become about reconciling this whole business of musical expression with the parameters of islam that we understand to be something that we are responsible for in terms of how we go forward and charge the everyday realities of life? so that's another challenge that we have. and i think quite frankly what we need are much more open discussions about these things because i think the worst place that muslims can find themselves is in this never, never land where there just paralyzed. they are just coming into, i listen to music but i'm not sure i should. i play music but i don't know.

this kind of paralysis can breed that double consciousness, that is the depth of a healthy psychological for any committee. we did space the -- bases issue but it's not just music. its film. if i'm writing literature, can he use an expletive? all these kinds of issues that we have to confront. and i think that this is another part of the problem. the third problem is that or us in america wil were start talkig about quote-unquote and islamic culture, i think most, we think in mono terms. that is to say, there's going to be sort of a single quote-unquote american muslim culture that's going to emerge and that's going to resist in itself as the hegemonic overseer

of all cultural production among muslims. so we will end up with a cultural orthodoxy that admits some form of cultural expression and that does not admit others. i'm not talking about the basis of shari'a or anything like that. i'm talking about some of us will have sort of cultural proclivities that going to stretching and others will have cultural proclivities that go in another direction, and both sides will be trying to claim he says islamic culture. we end up with these underground guerrilla wars among us as muslims. and i think that one of the things we need to do is recognize that islam is pluralistic in its expressions of shari'a. you have -- et cetera. no need to think that we will be monolithic culturally speaking. and i think one of the major challenges for us, muslims in america, if you look around this

room we are unlike to my knowledge any other community in the world. we have to redevelop a pluralism and that's capitalism that respects the boundaries that define us as muslims but also recognizes the fact that there are many, many different ways to go about this thing. wind your way happens to differ from mine i'm not so insecure that have to try to tear you down because i see only one possibility for the islamic culture. we really have to get over this and i think that many of us in here, we agree with in principle but somehow we've not acquired the skill, we have not acquired the sort of almost deepened the full force to accommodate it in everyday life. because when we go on your we see a sister, a brother, we hear -- and we engage in the sort of micro-aggressions, right? we don't even necessary say

anything. we let people know that they're not really appreciated in our midst, all right? these are precisely the kinds of things that has the internal bleeding. do you know what i mean? if i insult you in a way that is explicit, i can apologize and you can accept my apology. follow what they mean? but a micro-aggression, a little slight, all right, you can't even acknowledge that i slide you because then it put you in a position of weakness. you just internally bleed and you hate my guts. and this is what we have, and so many actors are community ever got to find ways of overcoming this kind of thing, all right? so i think those are some of the challenges -- do i have three more minutes? one. that wasn't -- all right. she's got a fast cultural watch. anyway -- i want to shift very quickly but what i think there

was another important dimension because i think one of the dangers i see is that we still talk about this whole business of american culture, american muslim culture, american muslim culture. and many of us take this, you know, as an excuse to sort of run to our own little cultural bubble and we feel good about ourselves as muslim and we've gotten rid of many of the sort of conflicts within culturally speaking among us as muslims, and yet but we forget that we are far, far of a much larger society reality. and the fact of the matter is that while success in that regard to change the way we see ourselves, people be limited in terms of the way that others see us. when you're a minority in any context, racial, gender, religious, whatever, all right, the way that the majority sees you will ultimately affect the way that you see yourself.

i think we have to recognize that culture, as the doctor did say, that culture is not just the culture is artistic expression and that narrow sense. culture is about the way society calibrates the sensibilities of its people to produce meaning and to produce ways of looking at feeling and sensing the world. that's what culture really is, all right? and what we have that is a culture in the broad sense where the american people find it very easy to believe the most monstrous things about us. all right? that's not a matter of rationality. that's a met in which their sensibilities have been calibrated. that's a matter of meanings have been created that make these things so believable about us. one of the things that we have to understand is that we as

muslims in america, we have to acquire the ability to have an impact on the culture in the broadest sense. because if we don't -- i will read and i will stop because i can you. but this is real important to me. one of the reasons it's important to me is because i did many of us think that all of our problems will be solved through politics. i'm not a political pass this and i don't think politics is unimportant, all right? but it's the culture in the broad sense in the society in which we live does not change, the matter what rights we get, the culture will enter with those rights and will apply those rights in ways that it sees fit, not in ways we see fit. so politics alone will get it, and want to read you something that haunts me. and me, it absolutely haunts me. and this is from that famous german philosopher, frederick

nietzsche, if i can find. i'm nervous and i can't find anything. he talked about the fact, maybe i will just have to paraphrase it. he talks about the fact that it is common it is, it is europe's duty to prepare the way for that time when they did european comes into the proper possession of his destiny. and that destiny is to supervise the universal culture of the world and he's not talking about, you know, the art and the music, et cetera. is talking about the way we see the world. including ourselves in the world. and muslims have to understand that here in america our cultural production has to include an intellectual effort

that rearranges aspect of the broader culture of america. because only in that way will we be able to get non-muslim americans to see themselves and to see us differently. and we have to understand of all of this is a part of cultural production, and i'll stop there. [applause] >> all right. you think i would know technology by no. up next we have imam zaid shak shakir. he has been a longtime advocate of backyard organic gardening, sustainable living and antique and consumers practice such as banning the use of plastic bottled water. is written extensively on the subject over the host of other

concerns. he's been active with a number of relief and the velvet organizations, among them islamic relief and the national foundation of genetic into. truckloads been named as an influential muslim in order to our question for imam shakir tonight is you have often been noted as someone who is critical of cultural trends, particularly after a poem he wrote on the topic which seem to coincide with the happy muslims video that came out. can you elaborate a little more on whatme of the possible dangers are and what your solutions are for a way in which one can both be muslim and american without compromising either identity? [speaking arabic]

>> yeah, that's a mindful. so to be responded to the question, i think we have to acknowledge the are many different ways of defining culture. those have been listening carefully have heard several from the previous speakers, dr. su'ad and dr. shuren. i would like to begin looking at this question through another definition, one that's been applied by dr. jackson towards the end of his comments. and that is culture as the sum total of all socially transmitted either. so in that sense it's sometimes broken down to the level of symbols, words for example.

symbols, heroes such as our profit. rituals such as our prayer, our fasting and others, one of the great rituals in our religion. and then values. and the former three are sometimes seen as informing the latter but also expressions of the latter to a certain extent. now, as muslims, if we consider the sum total of socially transmitted behavior, our society is a transmitting many different behaviors and inputs that influence behavior to us. some of those can be categorized

as distinctly islamic. for those of us who are muslim, so those of us, particularly those who have converted but even certainly true for many who haven't, who had that islamic moment in their lives where they consciously became a practicing muslim, even though they were born into muslim families. those things are being transmitted to us by our society. i am here in america. i was born and raised here in america. i was not born into a muslim family. i did not go of in a muslim neighborhood, but my society transmitted elements of islamic teachings to me that enabled me to become a muslim. but the society is also, as dr. jackson mentioned and implied, is transmitting a whole lot of things to us that could be

categorized as distinctly un-islamic. and then, of course, there's a gray area where we don't know if the things society is transmitted to us our distinctly islamic or un-islamic. and this is something that is applied by our profits when he said, those things that are distinctly lawful are clear. and then hurrah, those things that are clearly unlawful, those things -- [speaking arabic] and between those two extremes, if you will, our gray areas, doubtful matters. most people do not know the ruling concerning those. so this is the role of scholars. so to go back to the question, i

think sometimes we lacked either the proper experience or the proper input from scholars to determine where a lot of those great things in that gray area fall. and that's where a lot of experimentation, that's where a lot of trial and error comes into play. so this is where i think the issue at hand can really be flushed out a little, in the sense that we are muslims. we're living in the context of a society that's a transmitting to us a lot of things that either are clearly un-islamic or they fall into that gray area. and our profit goes on to say -- [speaking arabic] one who was able to avoid those

doubtful things escapes with the religion and their honor intact. so many times i think we either consciously or unconsciously adopt a lot of these things in that gray area, and they become great challenges to our religion and our our honor. now, our challenges preserving our ability to hold on to those things that are clearly established. that's our challenge. it's very difficult in these days and times. our prophet was shown everything that was going to be the and amongst the things he was shown was the challenges that muslims would face at the end of time. so he said -- [speaking arabic]

at the end of time there will be days, there will be days of patients. so it will take a lot of patience to negotiate them. [speaking arabic] one holding on to the religion, and hear those things that are clearly islamic, one being able to pray five times a day, one being able to turn to the koran on a regular basis, one being able to fast the month of ramadan, we be like holding on to a burning ember. because of the many challenges. the reward of one who continues to practice and act in those days is like the report of 50 men. [speaking arabic] from us or from amongst them. the board of 50 to why such a

great reward? the difficult and holding on. so holding on requires that with our collective wisdom, not with anyone set of input of any one interest in of islam, our collective wisdom, input from our scholars which were caused to resort to,. [speaking arabic] all day the law, a beta messenger and those in authority amongst you. [speaking arabic] those who have political authority, that's legitimate of course, and the scholars. so this is a process that takes time. it's a process where, in my

estimation, is best to err on the side of caution. because once some things are abandoned it's very hard to get them back. and want something her crib adopted it's very difficult to get rid of them. and as a kennedy we are first and foremost a religious community. as a community, our first and primary concern is getting ourselves and helping other people to get to paradise. our primary concern is not this world. we have worldly concerns and it is beautiful express, and i will stop here. in the words of the koran, mentioned, after mentioning the importance of striving and asserting ourselves -- [speaking arabic]

and but a lot of times he mentions -- tonight. the consequence of that struggle and enduring the sacrifices that come with it will be, your sins will be forgiven. [speaking arabic] and you'll be entered into gardens beneath which rivers flow. [speaking arabic] and beautiful homes and gardens of eden. [speaking arabic] that's the great triumph. [speaking arabic] that's not just it. something else. [speaking arabic] help a speedy victory in this world, give glad tidings to the believer. so the great triumph is -- and the community we are trying and struggling and trying to negotiate our way into finding

within our various culture contexts the path that leads us to paradise. and that's a difficult process. and i think sometimes we are so traumatized by trying to figure it out and do you with all the things that were mentioned previously by the previous two panelists is because we don't allow ourselves the proper time and space to work it out. working it out sometimes takes generations, and we're trying to do it sometimes in two or three weeks or in time to respond to the latest facebook controversy. it doesn't work that way. so we have to sit back and relax. went to allow ourselves some time personally and as a community, the space and the time to experiment, to engage in this process of trial and error. but as we do it i think we

should be pockets of the fact that many of the filters that provide us with the ability and in a certain sense the parameters to gauge what we will accept and what we you will reject, that those filters are provided by the koran, and those are the enduring sources of guidance that has allowed a distinctive muslim community, culturally and otherwise to exist in this world for 1400 years. and if we respect those filters, we will be able to continue to exist, despite their tremendous challenges of the modern and some of what described as a postmodern world. [applause] >> thank you, imam shakir. with hashtag on twitter, if you have any comment you would like

to ask him if you disagree with anything that's been said, please tweak. let us know. if any questions you can also put them at the. the hashtag again -- nothing is off limits. while we finish with our scholarly panelists here and we will move on to the two panels that we have had an immediate and the arts. we will start with brother alex kronemer, cofounder of 30 productions foundation of the coexecutive producer of the upcoming pbs documentary, in any of the race. it will international on tuesday september 9. it tells the amazing story of a heroic muslim woman who defied of the gestapo in nazi occupied paris. has other national broadcast films include among others, mohammad legacy of the prophet, prince among slaves, cities of like and the rise and fall of islamic spain, and islamic art,

these films have been seen by an estimated audience of 150 million people worldwide and are part of numerous educational programs that have reached over 25,000 classrooms and libraries. so the question for roger alex tonight is that people often think of culture as what we see in the media. so movies, music, tv shows that are consumed, those are supposedly american values. but for those like it's out of work in the field, what is the reality? is the programming we see today really a reflection of society? and how can we integrate our own values into the things that we see? >> sal, -- so, a first grade teacher was trying to calm down her class after recess. and she looked out to this very busy classroom with children running around and she sees this

little girl standing by her desk but as she said, sally, what did you do during recess? and sally said i was playing in the sandbox. and the teacher says, look set to the class and sit class, remember, stand as one of the words of the week. sally, can you spell stand. sally says s-a-n-d. put a gold star up next to your name. sally runs and puts us our next-door neighbor she was very happy. and a teacher looks back at and looks back at and she sees as lovable and is being rambunctious and is jumping up and down as she said really, what were you doing during recess? belli said, i was playing in the sandbox with sally. teacher said well, class, box is one of our words. billy, can you spell box? so billy thanks and said b-o. he struggles. you can't find the next trouble. the teacher says is tricky but

once the letter that makes that sound x. she looks out a third time. this boy is sitting in his and his deputy looks very dejected and she says, omar, what did you do during recess? omar said i wanted to play in the sandbox with bill and sandy but they wouldn't let me. they kept throwing sand at me and yelling at me and saying i should go back to where i came from. the teacher said that's terrible. that's awful. that's blatant racial discrimination. omar, can you spell blatant racial discrimination? [laughter] now, that's a story, and it seems to express something truthful about the american muslim experienced, but it's all so something that was let out there and heard and understood you really couldn't look at

american muslims quite the same way, particularly american muslim youth. and it gets to your question, childlike to turn on its head. because what i would like to have heard is that storytelling in the ark is not really about reflecting society. storytelling is about making society. we've been talking about culture, talking about perceptions of muslims. it comes in the ways in which stories are told. and i want you to think about something for a second. think of all the way that your and passive by stories almost every hour of your day. you wake up in the morning. you turn on the radio or the tv care about the story that happened overnight did you go to work where you communicate most of the time in stories. you want to express your feelings. you tell us toward. you want to impart wisdom or inspire somebody can you tell a story. and nephew to all the stores that happened to you, you read

books, watch tv, go to movies and then you sleep at night and dream in story. stories are always with us. in fact, cognitive scientists believe that our sense of self may be simply the story that our brain is telling his help to make sense of reality, to know what facts to let him and what facts do adore. to decide what is a friend and what is a faux? we should reflect on that for a second. what he really means is stories are the most powerful force in human affairs. and went dr. jackson was earlier talking about the ways people have fixed ideas, you grab your heads to set deeply was, it is because of the stories that get told. and it functions, storytelling functions like it would in any kind of -- there are stories, a

plot, and so it's the kind of characters that we cast muslims in, both amongst ourselves but also how muslims are cast by others but and i would like to point out right now as we are seeing all these come with the isis and all these things and so forth, reflect on this idea. that some good, some ethnic group, some region, we talk about bad things we look to the prism of victor. a few weeks ago when we are concerned about the children were coming to broker -- central america, nobody was looking at that situation through the lens of the drug cartel and the terrible things they are doing. we are looking at it through the eyes of people victimized. but when it comes to muslim, typically we look at those stories through the lens of perpetrators. those are the characters that get put forward as the ones that matter. i saw a headline today written

by somebody who is arguing about what we should do in syria and iraq, et cetera, et cetera, and headline was, the most terrible people on earth, referring to isis. the most terrible people on earth. another headline could easily have said, the most victimized people on earth, talk about the people in that same region who have been living under terrible conditions of war, destruction and fear for a long time. how we pass those stores. and, of course, the plot that we have. many times the plot doesn't even include muslims. the film that was introduced, the film is a story about a world war ii hero, a woman living in paris, a muslim who fought the nazis, to five and died doing so. the reason this whole idea came

to pass begin with was three years ago i was attending a conference with other filmmakers and so you may know this is the seventh anniversary of the d-day invasion. and while i was at this conference for use go there was a lot of discussions of always documented the mega star album so wanted to make about once to another about world war ii. and not a single person mentioned of course muzzle but that didn't surprise me because i myself had no idea were never heard of any story involving muslims in world war ii. in any way. but in a surprising thing happened. a few weeks later, both my partner and i were screening a film at different ends of the coasts, and we heard a story told to us about somebody who's relative had been jewish living in france that have been saved by they must family, in one case and imam, in one case if only. that was shocking to us after

going to a conference and hearing back to back stories. we begin to research and found out there are literally tens, hundreds of stories about muslims just in paris. algerian immigrants who fought with the french resistance. hundreds of them dying. the paris mosque that sheltered jews during the war. the franco muslim hospital that he'd shut down u.s. air men and british airmen and was awarded a medal of honor by president eisenhower after the war. and let me ask you all this question. what was the largest all into group in world war ii? it was the indians. the indians who volunteered and served in the war across all the fields of the combat, and when is the last time you've seen a brown face person in any movie or any documentary about world

war ii? i bet never. [inaudible] >> exactly. so the point about it is this. part of it is also the plot and the plot that we put to this, and do we include people or do we not include people in storytelling? so i would say to you that it isn't so much, are the stories reflecting with the reality, is how much are our stories shaping the perceptions of reality? that is the thing that we should be asking ourselves, and the edge to that is not very much, not enough. not enough at all. and i will tell you why i think that is the case. about six years ago i had a little panel where i was

actually making more less the same talk, and i was getting really revved up. i mean, i was really hot. i was on fire. i was out there and i was yelling at the audience. i was getting big responses. they were like 300 people. and i was like, saying, you know, muslims need to be telling their own stories. the crowd is going yes or muslims need to be in the arts, the media. we need to share our stories and tell who we are. yes. so encourage all your children, go to the arts. [laughter] and that is also a story that we tell ourselves that has great power. and it's a story of what is valuable and what is not valuable. the story of to be really encourage the people in our community to be in the arts, to take risk, to maybe make mistakes? but you really start to try to add the muslim narrative to the large a narrative. that's the only way those

cultural things in our brains, those notions of who we are and who we are not going to change. it is only going to change when we begin to tell our story in compelling ways, whether it's in film, in writing or in song. but we have to encourage that. and again, the tweets that came earlier, we have to give space for people to experiment and to try and to expand the narrative. because it is in that expansion that the perception of muslims in this culture and the world, only then can begin to change. thank you. [applause] >> thank you so much, brother alex. up next our panelists i is when exactly involved in producing art and culture for popular consumption i would presume. brother ali is a hip-hop artist,

speaker and activist from minneapolis, minnesota. his decade-long resume includes six critically acclaimed albums, mentorship with iconic hip-hop legend chuck d., and performances on late-night talk shows with conan o'brien and jimmy fellow. he was keen to speak at this year's nobel peace prize forum. brother ali is kind of working on his first literary offering, tackling the topics that are discussed in his speaking engagements and workshops. now, the question that it does to brother ali is the lyrics you write and perform are different than the tombs of the modern day muslim pop stars. they deal with real issues right here at home, but there still seems be a lack of appreciation for this kind of artistic expression in the muslim community. tell us a bit about what inspired your art, and also how this kind of art can help heal the muslim community and bring them together. [speaking arabic]

>> speaking of stories, well, let's start with the question that i think you're right, that there's a lack of appreciation and there's a lack of recognition. i'm very outweighed by everybody on this panel. what i bring to the table is my experience. my experience is that across the board and around the world the reality of white supremacy has come and you know white supremacy, one of the most evil aspects of it, perhaps the most is that it exists in non-white people. he becomes a dominant narrative and he becomes part of the overall systems of domination that we face in this last time. we face systems of domination across the board, economic and

cultural and et cetera. one of the main things we face is the idea that whiteness and everything that comes with white people are the most legitimate, the most precious, most acceptable that white people are more valuable and white thoughts and white ways of living. on the other side of that, that blackness is not important and it's not legitimate and it's not valuable. and it's not to be honored and it's not to be appreciated. this has been my extremes as a muslim-american. this is my experience as a european-american person. raised by black people at, directly, not figuratively. and raised by the black muslim community. and raised in a really amazing, incredibly enriching and wonderfully developing environment.

and then set out in the world with everything i've been given, both in my being, also in the culture in the way i express myself, the art i've been taught, the tools i've been given to engage to navigate the world as it is. and the second i got outside of that cocoon or that womb, that bore me, which i referenced very sincerely, i started to realize the lack of appreciation that is too common to be a coincidence. both in the muzzle more and also in the world of art. that in america, and in, also in muslim america, we have an idea about who is illegitimate american and he was not, who is a legitimate muslim and he was not. and the closer we are to whiteness, white success, white anything, anything that we have the white people appreciate, we

love it and we celebrate it and we jumped for joy. when you have a white person that can express islam in a beautiful way and we have some are amazing. when a white scientist proves an idea, we jumped for joy, we are overjoyed. were so happy about this. likewise, the people who chose to give his religion to first on these shores and the first protectors of islam in the world or black african people. the first out of all the people to actually stick his neck out and risk his political relationships to guard and protect the early muslims when they're having trouble with aristocracy and 90. and there was a king and of islam that existed there. it was for a short period but it was a reality. muslims were safe when they weren't safe in africa among black people. and this particular leader became muslim.

and our dear beloved prophet muhammad, with the leader passed away he stood and made -- also the voice -- something that we hear a lot and we think a lot about just the voice from the sound that comes out of his mouth. the idea of his black voice has been cheapened so we believe we're told he is the first because he had a good voice. but we are also taught that when the prophet was in paradise that hear footsteps in front of him and he asked who is that? he asked who is the person i hear the footsteps? this means this voice isn't just a sound that comes from the throat but it emanates from a spiritual state and a spiritual reality. and in america we are starting to get used to the idea that we don't own black people anymore but we still think we own everything they create. culturally and spiritually and

in human terms, and nobody ever in history of america here expresses their rights as a human being without using the language that was created by the black liberation movement. this is true in cair, two for the come everybody expresses humahuman rights. uses that to anybody when they're in a space with have to grapple with their non-whiteness and i've noted this with people are brown in america and to don't always have to russell with that, but when they get into a space post 9/11 and that center, would have to really wrestle with the fact that they are not white, who do they go to for guidance for the? where do muslims in america, young muslims in american go to learn how to not be white in america? they go to hip-hop. and they use these expressions and they value them, this toolbox has been established. and it's true across the board

for everybody. and in america from a common you know, so many of the enslaved africans were brought to these shores, somersault but many were stolen. and among them were great scholars. the name booker t. washington, the term baileys, the last named bailey, of whom frederick douglass was a dissent, a great sculptor among these people were descendents of the prophet muhammed. among these people were descendents -- people like -- these people brought islam, your movie made about it was incredible and i loved the fact you told that story. these stories haven't been told. and without any significant dog walk and then come the first

people on these shores to desire our islam, to reach for islam, to really risk their lives and give their lives to establish islam, the people whom make it big in the vanguard of the protectors and the guardians to literally make america safe for our islam. were the children of enslaved africans, black africans. i don't know how many of us really discuss this, how much this is really seen, that there was a miraculous event that happened with the the mama, where people have been striving to learn islam is and no islam for so long and when the imam want to become the leader of the nation of islam and i think it's very significant that i was in dearborn today and this was the largest community of muslims of america, primarily arab and

south asian muslims, and why were they safe to establish islam your? because we talk what americans think about islam and think about islam and would not talk about african-americans. because african-americans love and respect islam. even if not all of them want to be a muslim, when you're in the black community and you say you're a muslim, if you really live that you are respected, treated with respect, you're given deference, that's a respect thing. dr. su'ad tweeted one time after the boston bumper she said i'm in one place in america would we safe to be a muslim, in the. this is where i got the name brother ali. because my friends were selling drugs -- [applause] my friends were dying, selling drugs. i'm from the generation were my friends sold crack to each other's parents. i almost lost my virginity to crack it, two-person -- this is our life that we had. and hip-hop saved us. saved our lives.

when i became a muslim and i was scared to live in this reality. my friends are dying, my friends get shot in the head. when i wanted to change my life and i do know how to do it, and i became a muslim, this is how i got the brother -- and brother ali. when they're playing dice to put the dice behind the back to don't smoke that we run brother ali. peace, brother ali. this made the world safe. he was born in detroit, the nation of islam was born in detroit. and why would the muslims safe here? this is a chocolate city. this is a black city who's being boycotted of the same way that haiti was because of the black power that they have here. but why was dearborn comply with the muslims safe here? martin luther king whose last words, the last words that he spoke publicly when he knew he

was going to be assassinated, and he said, i'd like to live a long flight, longevity has its place but that doesn't matter with me now. what did he say? i just want to do god's will. and then he was murdered and the bill that allows for nonwhite immigrants to start coming to america in big numbers, are to beloved brown muslims who started coming to american neighbors to this was proceeded by the civil rights bill. the language of the civil rights bill is what caused this to happen or even non-muslim african-americans made america a safe place for islam. when cair and the people stand up for civil rights and for human rights in this context, this is the language that we are using. but my experience when i go places is that, and to get back, frequently, then the notion that said a lot of us don't recognize as being part of our tradition. i was just with minister farrakhan not to long ago and the way he explained it to me

made sense to me. and regardless of how we feel about him, i sat with him and he expressed his love and he taught for three hours. he expressed his love and his desire to move his community. but as a little kid when he was very young, related a story where he praised. please bless us to understand you probably. and that's a became the leader of the nation of islam, within one you come within a very short period of time, almost half a million people converted to islam at orthodoxy. this is a miracle in the shores of america. and we are telling stories and we're deciding what's in and what's not. why is this not in our story? why do our children not know that this is the legacy that we inherited a? why do we not see these people as our predecessors in the religion?

why do we not see this community and that only the great scholars of that we have, that we can ask to represent all of us, all of that community? ima a european-american person but my committee is black american muslim community. this is how allah had it to be. so when we talk about muslim culture, i'm just very, very torn up. at our schizophrenia and at our amnesia. because i just, it's as plain as day to me with just my limited everything, that we are missing out on our humanity. this idea of white supremacy separates us from our humanity. that's what does. and, frankly, -- [speaking arabic] and our prophet mohammed, address specifically -- he

address this specifically in his farewell address. and in our beautiful scholars, and i love all of them so much, they are masterful at addressing this in time. and being very, very specific about administering, what do they call it when you have the disease and they tell you, you have a disease? diagnosing. things like of our mental issues. things like the food we're eating. things like him all these things are very specific about. i bless them for that. but how are we able to have this conversation again he white supremacy is in part and parcel of this modern world? that we don't look at the sunday know what time it is to we look at a clock that tells us what time it is in england, that's how we know what time it is. and i don't know, i just learned how to measure -- my wife --

acod or how to measure for what time it is but i was looking at an app on my phone that toby by the calendar over into what time it is in europe how, what time is. into this is just all i want to offer is that we are missing out on one of the most if not the most significant and important realities and wealth of strength and wisdom. i don't know the words but i know what i feel and what a recognize. we are missing out on a committee. we talk about malcolm and thank god, i feel like malcolm -- i read his book and he predicted the sheikh and he predicted a lot. he predicted you. malcolm predicted you. he said if european americans

would study islam it would be cured from being wiped. he predicted this. but he didn't come out of a vacuum applause but he didn't defend -- decent out of nowhere. there's a community of people who inspired him and he made his life matter. when he spoke it wasn't just him speaking. they were men and women on the ground desiring a lot and living their lives and ready to die for him. in the hood, in the slums, getting people who are hooked on drugs and putting them in the house. putting them in the shower and teaching them your original language of islam, arabic and you are a muslim. and this is what made america -- that's what struck me. i'm through. thanks. [applause]