i disagree with what he said on both isil and the ultimate intention for its future, which i think the president sincerely wants to destroy this whole terrorist group, is that it will be long. i think he was trying to prepare americans for that. i think the big question is to what degree is there an opportunity cost here at to what degree is there an opportunity cost here that ends up delay and or in some cases perhaps derailing other elements of his foreign policy. postcode david sanger, what do you make that there will be no combat troops? >> guest: well, this is the continuation of the president's commitment that he will not get us back into the kind of a rapport we were in before. and he doesn't need this to get back into that. he's not trying to occupy and change the nature of an entire

country. but it would be wrong to suggest that this is also just like it's been in yemen and somalia were you going with quick light footprint attacks and leave. here it is going to have to be a very constant form up operations at the scene already announced over the past month about 150 separate attacks they have done in 30 days. you can do the math there. it is five today. on over 200 targets that is just doing the basel and a few other locations in iraq. obviously at some point and i don't think it will be immediate, this will spread to syria. >> host: you had a piece last week i believe that outlines the challenges the president faces could you also do price tag about the airstrikes in iraq so far. over 200 million a month. >> guest: that is just

containing it to iraq. if this spreads to theory the price goes up significantly. >> host: talk about that war. how much money are we talking about? >> guest: we don't know because the president has not put a price tag on it. when you consider afghanistan the last year we had a full part of the surge ran upwards of $100 billion in iraq was running at a rate much longer than not. we're not talking talking the kind of spending in their delay not the kind of that we saw the worst is iraq and afghanistan. but that isn't to say it's free. sooner or later the congress will have to step in and decide how to fund it and that will require them to take the boat that clearly right now they don't want to take him at least before the midterms. >> host: the president says he welcomes their support. >> guest: he said he welcomes their support, but he didn't say he needs their support. this is interesting. think about this. a president who is serious a

year ago when the chemical weapons issue is that they are said to have the authority to act, but i'm going to leave it to congress and congress did not in of course that action took a very different form that unfortunately has resulted in getting most of the chemical weapons out. in this case, he says i have the authority to act and i would welcome congress, but he is clearly going ahead and act team even without congress. that is a significant difference. >> host: but he did say there would be a broad coalition. where is he with his coalition? who do we know? >> guest: we know saudi arabia for sure given what has been announced about the base that will be there and that is significant. you can assume the uae amid the united arab emirates which is in the libya population will be contributing some very good air force. there is a good assumption the

qataris will be a mess but they may be on both sides of the conflict. obviously there is some support for people in qatar, just as support from people in saudi arabia. the question is how many other arab states can you get into this than what we do about iran? she is bank on the ground is the most perfect divorce, the code source and the iranian revolutionary guard corps. but the president made mention of uranium during the entire speech. >> host: david sanger, the papers this morning you know sort of conflicting a little bit about does isis or seven i really posed a threat to the united states? what do you know i'm not from? >> guest: we ran it for like a story on page one of my colleagues might look that he and eric schmitt did. there is an interesting briefing on the threat by matt olson of the counterterrorism center that he did over the brookings institution last week and for

those c-span watchers who want to see a variety, his deputy was testifying yesterday i think you are running a little bit of that last night. i saw that when i got back from the office. there is a lot out there and what it basically tells you is there's no evidence right now of a reach into the united states come a capability to reach in the united states be on individuals who could get on an airplane obviously blow something up to an individual attack. but no effort of the kind of network that al qaeda had before the awful events 13 years ago this morning. so that is sort of where they stand. and that is why there is an element of preemption to the president's policy here because he is obviously trying to get to isis before it takes that capability. poster david sanger national

security course on what "the new york times" and author of the book, confront and conceal: obama secret use of american power. we appreciate your time this morning. >> guest: thank you. connect the chairman of the house armed committee spoke about the prospect of u.s. ground forces responding to isis. here is a part of his remarks at the american enterprise institute. >> now is the time to match words to action. they have a stake in this fight too. we are holding a starter pistol. the time to pull the trigger was yesterday. most of us have heard the term boots on the ground, but we need to talk about what boots on the ground actually means. some have taken it to me in march, occupying forces in a hostile land. that is a red hearing. in fact the best way to ensure we never have to drop an entire maneuver according to iraqis to

be smart about using the right boots on the ground today. the president may not admit it but the authority made this distinction. he has inserted special forces trainers advisors and security forces. this is the right decision, but more can be done. that includes increasing our assistance to the kurds. it means empowering moderate sunnis where and when we can and bolstering the nonsectarian force is in the iraqi security forces. this will take troops but it will not take divisions. there is no way around it. american boots will be standing on stand. americans will be shot at and they will be shooting back. there's simply no other way to do this. this strategy is not without risk. neither is president.

he would be wrong to sell it that way to the american people. this is a dangerous business. it is dangerous anytime we have our sons and daughters take to the skies, the thieves are the shores to defeat an enemy. >> the threat of isis was the talk at the subcommittee yesterday. officials in the department of homeland security testified about the possibility of sending fighters entering the u.s. >> the committee in homeland security comes subcommittee importer of maritime security will come to order. the subcommittee is meeting today to examine the threat posed by isis foreign fighters for holding western passports. and we are very pleased today to be joined by mr. troy miller who's the acting assistant commissioner of u.s. customs and border protection. mr. john wagner, a frequent test of fire to a subcommittee hearing me appreciate him coming

back. he is the assistant minister of u.s. customs and border protection. mrs. jennifer lasley -com-com ma we'll can you come undersecretary for novice at dhs office of intelligence analysis and ms. hillary johnson and acting deputy coordinator for homeland security and affairs at the state department bureau counterterrorism and i will introduce them a bit more formally shortly. tomorrow marks 13th anniversary of the most hedonists and cowardly attack in the history of our nation, certainly a terrorist attack that took the lives of nearly 3000 of our fellow americans that have been apart because our visa security and border security defenses were not very effective. among the most important witnesses the attackers were able to exploit was our ports outer ring of border security. in total to 19 hijackers, they pass through 60 times back and forth without being detected an

imac in september we learned a hard lesson here it is noted by the 9/11 commission, i quote for a terrorist, travel documents are as important as what the unquote. that is a very important statement by then. so true. many more terrorists and have exported the visa system in one fashion or another and it's an ongoing vulnerability. certainly one heightened by this mythic and growing throughout the islamic state of iraq on the theory i've posed nation. our best estimates are thousands of individuals carrying western passports have joined in the fighting syria and in iraq including several hundred americans. to innocent american journalist, james foley and stevens outlaws were brutally beheaded by isis terrorist who was likely a british citizen. these bugs have no regard for life and have threatened to attack our homeland in the

united states government must be prepared to prevent inaccurate happening. terrace with passports pose the rest of the homeland because many are eligible for visa free travel through the visa waiver program. terrorists could be just one piece of free flight away from arriving in the united states, bringing with them their skills and their training and their ideology and commitment to killing americans. all of the things they learned overseas. let us remember dr. rice moussaoui the so-called 20th hijacker actually traveled on the visa waiver program before he enrolled in a minneapolis flight school. richard reid the shoe bomber who tried to ignite explosive and issue also traveled on the visa waiver program. enron to use fast and was one of the main perpetrators of the 1993 world trade center bombing to get news of the visa to enter the country. these attacks occurred before

the advent of increased scrutiny on the visa waiver countries and i think we are confident we can identify many threats today are the electronic system for travel authorization commonly called pasta and are hearing today which all applicants have to fill out. it is clear we may have trouble determining if some individuals have traveled to terrace regions. although cbp continuously that's all visa applicants against our terrorism holdings, that information is imperfect if we don't have a complete picture of an individual travel route collecting more information up front could be very helpful for us to do just that. he treats another pilot programs to look at the totality of data on a esta and visa application are good tools to help some of our intelligence caps make connections we would otherwise miss. however, critical information

sharing especially with european allies is critical to help combat a threat of foreign writers are the united states and unfortunately europe as a whole has been without and to share certain passenger name record data for pnr data with the united states in such a gap certainly put our citizens in the united states at risk. i want to commend our allies in the united kingdom was an quick to realize the severity of the threat as many bread are among the isis fighters. we must work with foreign allies like the united kingdom and others to identify those radicalized a similar groups and prevent them from traveling to the united states unlike the u.k., i also think we should be looking at the authority we have or that we may need the novel be a big part of our discussion to revoke passports of american citizens who go to fight in

isis. we need to reduce their ability to travel to the united states and i think we need to consider what it will take to strip passports are those who provide support to her favorite terrorists. they certainly look forward to hearing from our witnesses today on what further changes we've made in our visa security system to combat the threat of foreign fighters to travel often overland through neighboring turkey porous border into syria and into iraq before returning home to europe. america hard for americans to comprehend but in europe traveling to steer you that this simple and just getting in their car and driving there. today's hearing is really about one simple question. can the united states government adequately detect terrorist travel patterns identify suspicious movement and prevent those who would do us harm from coming into the united states? how can we best protect our

homeland? our enemies are intent on attacking our country and actively seeking to what countermeasures. we need to be one step ahead instead of constantly reacting to the latest attacks. defeating terrorists ability to move internationally has long been a focus area for the subcommittee. terrace to a fata touristic attacks to come across the u.s. border for training or fraudulently obtaining a student or work visa. there is certainly further opportunities they can take to prevent attacks and limit terrorist mobility and not as where we are holding a hearing today. our visa security process obviously needs to be robust and must deny tourist freedom of movement because 13 years ago we unfortunately saw what really looks like. the chair without recognize the ranking minority member of the subcommittee come in the gentlelady from texas ms. jackson lee for her opening statement. >> good morning. let me thank the chairwoman for

yielding. let me also acknowledge the ranking member of full committee, mr. thompson and kim for his leadership as he is joined by the chairman of the full committee, mr. mccaul and they have worked diligently to provide leadership in securing the homeland. as i often remind our colleagues and as often as we are questioned by eric teacher wins the homeland security committee is a pivotal committee that stands in the gap is making sure the needs of our nation, domestic needs and protect in the homeland are the priority recognized by the american people as having a department and a committee that is clearly assigned to protect the homeland. 9/11 continues to be a symbol or all of the untoward terror around the world.

they view that as a challenge to them every year as to whether or not they can continue to intimidate western world and of course the united states of america. our values are contrary to their beliefs and therefore, 9/11 poses for all of us a time of recognition that we still remain in the eye of the storm and we must be diligent. don't offer to say we will not fall but into the terrorist intent and that is we will not terrorize ourselves. we will be vigilant which is extremely important, but we will be fair and just will recognize civil liberties of all. but we are in some challenging and difficult times and i want to take the chairwoman for allowing us and this committee and working with me in the full committee to be the very first

committee that is addressing the question of isis here in the united states congress upon our return. that is an important statement for homeland security armed services come intelligence community are the cornerstone of defending this nation and our collaboration working together is key and that we are doing. this fact-finding hearing will lay the groundwork for many other hearings that will be nice is very to expeditiously address this question. this evening, the president will address the nation and discuss new protocol is that we confront isis and how he has indicated unintegrated and end sunday. so i'm not willing to see the point that isis does not represent a threat to the united states. i did not say imminent. i did not say today, but i believe this hearing recognizes

that isis is a threat to the united states and to the people of the united states. again, not in the event of being intimidated, but being prepared to protect the people of the united states of america. like all americans i was horrified outraged and sad and by the beheadings of two american journalist, james foley and stephen loss by isil's terrorists in syria. isil has used ruthless little remedies and tactics to expand its control over areas of northwestern iraq, northeastern syria, threat and security of both countries. they had attacked, killed kidnapped and displaced thousands of religious and ethnic authorities in the region including christians and including small and i think minority groups. u.s. officials have warned syria faced terrorist extremists may also pose a direct threat to our homeland. one concern of foreign fighters

holding western passports for travel to this country to carry out a terrorist attack. additionally, our own u.s. citizens are known to have likewise left the united states and go onto the battlefield to perpetrate. the total number engages various groups including isil is between 75,000 to 110,000 persons. u.s. government estimates 12,000 foreign fighters. among those fighters are estimated to be more than 1000 individuals from europe and over 100 from the u.s. with a dozen american fighters with isil is typically. we may be reminded of 9/11 the account was approximately 19 who created the most heinous terrorist attacks, killing over 3000. the united states of america. we mourn for them and their

families. many have expressed particular concern about western foreign fighters because the passports and countries that participate in the visa waiver program which allows them to travel the united states without accepting -- about obtaining a visa. i want assurances. i want to discuss and work out whether or not we need to make the no-fly list more robust and would love to the idea of legislation to make sure we shore up the no-fly list, not 200 civil liberties or protect the nation. i'm interested any discussion of that going forward and classify for what is available today. i would note however that while these visa waiver travelers usually do not need a visa to visit this country, they have

currently vented upon arrival to the u.s. did i expect to discuss the process at this hearing. the citizens travel to the site in the country for the year. we're well aware of individual suicide bombers from the united states who recently died in battle. i expect discussion today about what dhs and federal partners can do to address such situations beyond adding individuals to the no-fly list even when the need arises, do the department security play a vital role in disrupting terrorist travel to the u.s. this subcommittee has previously examined passenger prescreening programs which are essential to addressing the foreign fighter threat to the homeland. i hope the dhs and state to further witnesses can speak to us about how these programs operate and how they can be used to address concerns regarding the dwp travel specifically. i also hope to hear from our state department witnesses about how we engage in how we are

engaging with four partners to help address information gaffes regarding individuals are concerned about travel patterns. like chairman miller, i'm glad you're up to standing up. i believe they should stand up and collaborate and maintain values. we can secure this nation with the largest situations here at iraq with the talladega we can do it collaboratively with our allies and their western allies. we do have the responsibility to protect homeland and threats for a isil and similar organizations and be mindful as we mourn and commemorate 9/11 and be mindful of the fact we have work to do. i therefore strongly encourage the administration and congressional leadership that all armed services and homeland security are included in briefings so they can be collaborative strategy in conjunction with the

administration. we can work collaboratively together and address these issues. i know are chairperson and ranking member prepared to do so. finally, i look forward to the president's address to the nation tonight as he outlines his plan for combating isil. i remain committed to working with colleagues on this committee and look forward to the appropriate legislation we hope would be expedited and passed to ensure the safety and security of the homeland. it is our duty and it is our challenge. with that he'll back the balance of my time. cannot turn a recognizes the ranking member of the full committee mr. thompson for his opening statement. >> thank you very much chairman miller, ranking member jackson lee. to do that for holding today's hearing. i would like to thank the witnesses were appearing to testify about the federal government efforts to identify foreign writers inferior anorak who seek to travel to the u.s. to do our nation harm.

since this is that which meant in the wake for terrorist attacks of 9/11 this committee has been engaged in helping to address the threats posed by terrorist travel. for example members of the committee advocated for a key provision in the 9/11 not to requiring the implementation of an electronic system for travel authorization to enhance the security of the waiver program. this committee also examined the lessons learned from the attempted vomiting a flight to 53 on christmas day 2000 night and urged dhs and the rest of the intelligence community to strengthen programs aimed at identifying interdiction travels to this country who might do us harm. today we turn our attention to a threat posed by foreign fighters with the islamic state of iraq and lebanon.

passports have attempted to travel for this country without obtaining the visa. top u.s. officials have made public statements warning that syria train extremists including foreign fighters with isil may pose a direct threat to this country. law enforcement and intelligence officials know individuals from north america and europe to travel to syria could be exposed to radical and extremist influences before returning to their country. as ranking member only has 30 set, the u.s. government estimate there were 12,000 foreign fighters who traveled to syria to engage in non-going civil war including more than 1000 europeans in over 100 u.s. citizens. of those 100 u.s. citizens fighting in the region, about a dozen are believed to be

fighting a long isil. i hope our conversation today provides insight into the full scope of foreign fighter issues facing the u.s. government as well as how we along with our foreign partners can maximize our intelligence and information sharing regarding these individuals. with that in mind, i want to hear from the department of homeland security and department of state witnesses about their ongoing work to identify an interdict foreign fighters coming to the u.s. and whether or not they need to increase efforts in response to isil. we know the threat posed by isil foreign fighters is very real and serious. the american people want assurances that our government response is and will continue to be equal to the task at hand. again, i think the witnesses for joining us today and the numbers for holding this hearing. none of chair, with that i also

yield back the balance of my time. >> i thank the gentleman during much for his opening statement. before we began asking in its consent to written statement offered by the gentleman from nevada mr. hack, be included in the record. without objection so ordered. other members are the committee reminded opening statements may be submitted for the record. again, or please do have to say which witnesses today to discuss this important topic. the men were formally introduced them and then who just are. mr. troy miller serves as the acting assistant commissioner for the office of intelligence and investigative liaison. mr. miller and his team are responsible for implementation of intelligence and targeting capabilities supporting the primary mission is securing america's borders by facilitating legitimate travel and trade. mr. miller began his career in 1993 as an inspector north dakota has held various positions. mr. john weidner is the

assistant commissioner for the office of field operations for the u.s. customer protection. mr. wagner served as executive director of admissibility and passenger programs with responsibility for all travel and disability related policies and programs. ms. jennifer lasley as a deputy undersecretary for analysis at dhs office of intelligence analysis, a position she has held since april 13. in 13. and this will come in the stream to leave dhs office charged with providing all intelligence analysis to the homeland and prior to this assignment served as the deputy director for now is that the defense intelligence agent d. ms. hillary johnson is active deputy coordinator for lateral affairs in the state department or of counterterrorism. in this capacity, she oversees whole of government approaches to protecting the homeland and crosscutting issues such as transportation cargo security global supply chain security and screening interdiction programs

to include terrorism information sharing negotiations in agreement with foreign partners to combat terrorist travel. with that the chair recognizes mr. miller for his testimony. >> chairwoman miller ranking member thompson, ranking member jackson lee, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the role of u.s. border protection during the homeland against terrorist threats. for the decade after the attacks on september 11, 2001 terrorist focus on aviation as a primary target of interest. the committee knows the homeland security specifically cbp has been aware of and continues to adjust align resources to address the evolving nature of the terrorist threat to the homeland. cbp capability has allowed us to rapidly leverage information and respond to emerging threats as a part of our intelligence driven

counterterrorism strategy. a particular concern are those guys that continue to alienate the core al qaeda, their affiliates to the islamic state of iraq, isil as well as other like-minded terrorist organizations across the globe. cbp's office of intelligence is focused on the growing threat of u.s. citizens and europeans traveling to support terrorist activities and those who then returned to the u.s. or allied countries. this past may 22-year-old american citizen flew himself up while detonating a massive truck bomb at a restaurant in northern syria. in august to u.s. citizens were killed near aleppo steerable fighting for extremist groups. in order to address this and other emerging threats from the cbp's office of intelligence provides operational and analytic support to our front-line on a daily basis for intelligence-based targeting will come as situational awareness briefings, tactical intelligence such as link

analysis on those subjects of interest. cbp in conjunction with our investigative partners has long-standing calls for identifying, examining the reported encounters of the terrorist watchlist. as a complement to its ability to identify watchlist individuals attempting to travel, cbp takes steps to identify those unknowns to law enforcement and intelligence community for further scrutiny. these efforts occur before departure from the u.s. committee for departure from foreign locations or upon arrival at u.s. ports of entry. through robust information sharing and collaboration cbp continues to work with law enforcement intelligence community partners to enhance this comprehensive intelligence driven targeting program to detect previously unknown terrorist and zealot taters. for example, cbp's research and analysis on a recent traveler identified by partner one person agency suspected of being a steering foreign fighter

revealed the identity of a new suspect a co-traveler that provided previously unknown information to investigation and expanded our intelligence framework. as a foreign fighter threat grows, cbp works in close partnership with federal law-enforcement counterterrorism intelligence communities state and local law enforcement as well as the private sector to counter the threat. in addition, the threat posed by foreign fighters and isil is not limited to the united states. is a growing international commitment to combating the security. staffing cbp's national targeting center in intelligence office interact with the foreign counterparts including those countries, the middle east europe and north africa on almost a daily basis to collaborate on efforts to meet the threat. most importantly cvp intelligence works aggressively to continued leverage assets and resources across the intelligence community and other

federal partners to communicate, coordinate and collaborate with international partners which enables officers and agents to take the upper preoperational response. in conclusion cbp will continue to work closely with the dhs enterprise, department of state department of defense intelligence community and foreign counterparts to detect and address them urging terrorist threat such as those presented by isis and identify and address any and all potential security vulnerabilities. i appreciate the committee for leadership and for providing the opportunity to join a colleague speaking on the serious issue. i look forward to working with the committee on this issue in other matters of urgency and priority. i'm happy to answer any questions you may have. >> thank you for a much greater chair recognizes mr. wagner for his testimony. >> thank you, jordan miller, ranking member thompson current

member jackson lee. it's a privilege to appear to discuss u.s. customs and border protection in securing international travel against threats and supporters. in response to threat posed other terrorist groups and supporters including those who are u.s. citizens, cbp and teach us continually would find border security operations focusing resources on the greatest risks and extending our security measures that word to interdict threats before they reach the united states. because terrorist organizations continue to primarily target commercial air transportation as a means to move operatives in the united states to attack the homeland all focus our operational efforts to detect and respond to threats in the environment. lester cbp processed from under their trousers that are nations airports. we developed and deployed resources to detect, assess and mitigate risk at every stage along international travel continuum including one individual pies for travel documents reserves or purchases

an airline ticket, checks in at the airport while in route and upon arrival. before the foreign national travel to the united states, the first acquired to apply for visa with the department of theatre out of of a visa waiver program travelers from cbp through electronic system for travel authorization also known as esta. the department of state screens each applicant for knowledge abilities. through esta cbp screens be so waiver programs in advance of travel in order to assess eligibility and substantial mr. united states. this fiscal year cbp has denied esta application for 300 travelers for security-related reasons. what's travel is booked up for the slight departs, cbp detains analyzes all data including reservation information also known as pmr and manifest information, also known as advanced passenger information which contains the passport

biographical data and flight information to assess the passengers regardless of citizenship or visa status. cbp's national targeting center analyzes traveler data and applies intelligence driven targeting rules as described by my colleague, mr. miller to conduct a risk assessment. derogatory information on the risks are discovered cbp is able to take actions have always prior to travel so we can address these concerns. in order of descending authorities and capabilities of a preclearance immigration advisory program then we have our regional carrier liaison herbs. her half capability overseas is preclearance were cbp officers operate on foreign soil in uniform a search authorities and operational capabilities similar to what we have in the united states. trotters are questioned and infected before they board the aircraft. after the fight is prepared a foreign airport from the site is

generally treated as a domestic flight once it arrives in the u.s. they are currently cbp officers and agricultural specialist at 16 locations in six countries. clearance officers this year have refused entry to 24 travelers for security-related reasons. our preclearance facility in abu dhabi which opened a series of critical importance as it is a transit up for numerous high-risk pathways for terrorist travel, which gives cbp a critical security operation in a strategic location. next is the immigration advisory program where we have cbp officers in plain clothes at 11 foreign airports in nine countries to work with air carriers and foreign authorities to work and identify potential threats. they have no search authority per se the confession travelers an advisory capacity and can recommend additional security screening or recommended airline traveler based on the predeparture betting that described earlier occurring at our national targeting center. so far this fiscal year iep is recommended for an airline and 60 passengers for

security-related reasons. the notations about preclearance utilize regional carrier liaison groups have established relationships with commercial airline to prevent passengers or may pose a security threat fraudulent documents or otherwise inadmissible from boarding flights to the united states in these regional are in constant contact with airlines to exchange this information. at all points the travel continuum, cbp continues betting information including esta authorizations to be sure and it changes in traveler eligibility are identified in near real-time. this setting allows us to court and inappropriate actions such as further inspection upon arrival. though privacy recurrent betting has caused almost 400 previously approved esta should be revoked for security-related reasons. upon arrival in the united states, all travelers are said to do documents to conduct interviews and run biometric and biographic race against one

person databases. counterterrorism response protocols in place at ports of entry by passengers with links to terrorism and its immediate coordination with national targeting center port nation with partners at the fbi's terrorist screening center for the national counterterrorism and ice. cbp conducts all travel information utilized targeting role specific to the outside environment to identify when appropriate interview or apprehend travelers for one person or security-related reasons. thank you for the opportunity to testify in thank you for the attention you are giving to this important issue and i stand ready to answer any questions. >> thank you premeds mr. wagner. the chair recognizes ministry into. >> thank you distinguished members of the committee. i am pleased to be here today with my colleagues from cbp and state department to discuss the threat to the homeland from foreign fighters traveling from

syria to participate in the conflict there and what we at dhs are doing to mitigate threats. as you correctly stated, the ongoing conflict has emerged as an unprecedented drop from within 12,000 foreign fighters included more than one dozen europeans in over 100 u.s. persons who have joined or seek to join to fight there. our concern remains the same the visuals of radicalized return to their home countries or the u.s. and use newly acquired skills to carry out attacks. is an example in europe or a french national who fight alongside the islamic state of iraq in serious charge was conducting a successful attack against a jewish museum in brussels killing four people. although we currently have no credible information to indicate the islamic state of iraq or isil is planning to attack the homeland, we remain concerned to

safe havens in the middle east will allow them to plan and coordinate attacks in the u.s. for bradley, veteran al qaeda fighters have traveled to syria from pakistan to take advantage of permissive operating environment as easy access to foreign fighters, particularly europeans in u.s. persons were there for concerns. could emerge as a base of operations for al qaeda's international agenda to know which could include attacks against the homeland. we also remain concerned u.s. persons to link up with violent extremist groups in syria regardless of their original reasons for traveling to the tree could gain combat skills, extremist connections and possibly become radicalized or be further persuaded to conduct organized toward needed for attacks targeting the u.s. interest. because the border transportation security and immigration personnel are the frontlines of many or insiders

that the most up-to-date information and connect in coordination with long for some partners is appropriate. ina is working to inform dhs and state and local law enforcement partners about observable indicators of u.s. persons planning or attempting to travel to syria. we produced assessments on the motivations of u.s. travelers, their travel patterns the role social media's plan radicalization of violence in the ways u.s. persons are providing support. based groups. we have partnered with the fbi to produce intelligence bulletins and other products for state and local law enforcement on trends in observable behaviors in individuals seeking to travel to join the fighting. ina is also partnering with dhs operational opponents particularly cbp tsa to help identify foreign fighters or other terrorist and may be seeking to travel to the united states and we are working with

international -- interagency partners to distressed traveler take appropriate law-enforcement steps. we work every day to leverage our unique dhs data to ensure individuals who are not fully identified in intelligence channels can be appropriately watchlist and denied entry into the united states. finally, we work hand in glove with the department to provide intelligence assessment to support the visa waiver program. in consultation with the state department that facilitates low-risk travelers into the u.s. for tourism and business. countries must undergo a rigorous review process and agree to share criminal information with the u.s. our intelligence assessment which are one factor in the countries you look at a number of criteria for determining a countries eligibility to participate in the visa waiver program including the terrorist threat to the u.s. posed by

nationals of the country counterterrorism capabilities of that country the state of information sharing between the u.s. government in that country in the security of passports and other identity documents. using similar criteria we participate in dhs led reviews of all visa waiver program countries which must occur at a minimum every two years to evaluate whether a country should remain in the program. these are a few ways we are working to keep the homeland safe than those posed by returning foreign fighters. thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about these important issues and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. the chair recognizes mr. thompson for testimony. >> thankthank you. cherrywood miller, ranking member thompson commemorates a member jackson lee and established members of the subcommittee commit thank you for the opportunity to appear on behalf of the state department that was my colleagues from the department of homeland security

are at dhs. we are deeply supportive of dhs efforts to protect the u.s. homeland and we make every effort to empathize work through diplomatic engagement with allies and partners. we remain gravely concerned by the activities of terrorist syria and iraq including islamic state, racket labonte or isil. we've seen into a trend to foreign fare travel for the purposes of participated in the conflict were sojourned a global connectedness to the media on a president at scale. so we at the state department were close with countries affected by the foreign fighter problem to counter the threat the fighters pose. the department of state were supposedly dhs to support its mission of protecting the united states by promoting effective order security screening with their foreign partners or enhanced information sharing. for example briefly with their best interest to share terrorism screening information with foreign governments at all to see the global terrorist threat

to to this end, which implements foreign partners including visa waiver countries. these agreements allow me checks for incoming flights to or countries help us deter increase next to level security for unit dates. the aviation security engaging foreign partners to bolster aviation screening at last points of departure airports with direct flights to the united states. we do this to identify and prevent known or suspected terrorists rammed by 10% terrorist attacks against global aviation. additionally, the department of state is leaving interagency efforts to get with foreign partners to prevent an interdict for extremist travels to syria however closely with interagency to expedite comprehensive

purchase. this work includes facilitating information exchange is a foreign partners building partner capacity in developing shared objectives. ambassador robert radke senior iser on syria foreign fighters with this work for the state department and is met with officials to the european union member countries north africa, the gulf the balkans and east asia and pacific to discuss and examine shared concerns about the threat. important progress has been made that more work remains. countries in the balkans have recently adopted or considered more comprehensive counterterrorism laws. countries such as kuwait, qatar and saudi arabia have religious terrorist financing of several established necessary architecture to enforce counterterrorism was more effectively. the european council recently calls for the accelerated implementation of measures in support of member states to combat foreign fighters. this includes finalizing a passenger record as we've

mentioned by the end of this year. increasing cooperation to strengthen border aviation security in the region. we will continue to work closely in the coming to enhance cooperation and build on efforts today. in the wake of september 24th president obama will chair the united nations summit on the rising threat posed by foreign terrorist fighters. this presents the unique opportunity to demonstrate the threats of international consensus and concern regarding the foreign terrorist fighters for and build momentum for policy initiatives on this topic at home and abroad. that's the way secretary kerry and the turkish foreign minister will cochair before a history of meeting. at this meeting members will adapt the first-ever set of global good practices to address the foreign terrorist fighters threat. members will also launch a working group dedicated to

working globally to mobilize resources and expertise to advance implementation of these good practices. in conclusion department of state remains supportive of dhs efforts to protect the u.s. homeland to make every effort to support works of diplomatic engagement efforts. this is a critical component to combating terrorist travel. other forward to answering questions and working closely to make the united states safer. thank you. >> thank you all very much. this subcommittee and a full committee, the third mayor said committee has had a number of hearings about these, about rv says about the status of our visa programs. we certainly had a lot of discussion about the visa waiver program and inherently had a year ago this month a hearing in march of this year and asking a lot of questions about the visa waiver program and we certainly understand the program started in the mid-80s early to

expedite tourism and travel, which was a very good idea at that time. but the world is changing as we think about as we need to do to grow our economy about we also have to consider various processes and systems in place with other countries our allies our friends and what kinds of programs we put in place to put america at risk. and so to that, my first question would be we've heard a lot of testimony today and even in our opening statements about estimates as many as 12000 foreign fighters coming from so many european countries that could travel on western passports that are in the visa -- some countries in the visa waiver program. et cetera. one of the things that obviously the visa waiver program requires information sharing. as we sit here on the day

before -- as we talk about 9/11 one of the things the 9/11 commission recommendation that they made and observation they made that always sticks in my mind is that we have to move from the need to know information to the need to share information. information sharing is a critical component. to be a country participated in the program with the united states. the pnr data and we see in our opening statement the u.k. been so great on sharing information. everybody gives accolades for their sharing of information that does. some of the european countries not so good. even in our own hemisphere it appears mexico is pretty good hit of the cipher data.

canada there has been some concern raised about information sharing dare. i guess i would say first of all how many countries do we currently have? i think it is close to 30. are there any that have ever been eliminated from this program? are there any that we have been thinking about? are there things that the agencies are able to do to be much more aggressive about making sure we are getting the information shared with us and other countries to participate in the visa waiver. are there things we are doing legislatively to assist the agency. mr. wagner, miss lasley. >> i can certainly give you

background in terms of how the members we have in the visa waiver program. dirty from europe, seven the asia-pacific region and one of latin america. it's my understanding they have since the inception of the program as you stated in the 80s, two countries have had taken from the visa waiver program list. that was argentina and uruguay many years ago when it was not because of terrorism related issues, but more economic issues. >> is there any thought -- as i say, is there anything unique or must legislatively to assist you in being more aggressive if there are these kinds of concerns about information sharing for many of these countries, should we be much more aggressive about the information we need in order to feel comfortable to continue to have the visa waiver a legibility from the various

countries? >> so, we do get a lot of information from these countries. they do sign the information sharing agreements. they do the biannual -- every two-year review of the countries and their procedures. did you report their lost and stolen passports and all the travelers fill out the esta up location where we get a woman through a series of background checks and recurring checks. some of the numbers i mentioned earlier you know we deny this fiscal year which is coming to a close any couple weeks. 285 applications for security reasons that we provoked 393 after it was issued when we do our recurring setting, new information had come to light that to light that caused us to issue the revocation. our total applications were denied this year is over 35000.

so it's a small number of overall denials, but a consequential an important number. some of the things we're looking i missed reviewing all of our procedures data collection efforts. are we getting the right data elements, are there other elements we can use? how does that impact the privacy of individuals? how does it impact your travel and tourism facilitation efforts as well and what would we do with the data if we collected it? these are the things we are reviewing whether their procedures in the three continued to do and offer programs. >> following up on that, we talk about the esta the electronic system for travel authorization as you know was added as a security requirement by congress after 9/11. previous to that we didn't have the esta. as you mentioned, 17 different elements you are asking on the form mr. weidner.

obviously the main passport number, et cetera information element of your teeming that you can check against our databases it better. but to form these applications you have to 110 pieces of information apparently required. i was taking some notes when you were here about the esta that has been revoked and denied comment veteran. i am drafting legislation right now and i guess this is one of the things i will ask you here. i am drafting legislation currently. hope to be introduced perhaps even today that we would clarify what the purpose of esta actually is that i would need to ensure terrorists don't get on airplanes and asking the department to tie last what other changes might be necessary to increase security. so i am again asking you i guess for what your thought is on the legislation. do you think the agencies again

have the authority shorter than a congressional legislation to ask for additional -- it additional -- everything to me -- i'm not in your business, but it would seem to me asking for additional information, particularly from a number of countries in the visa waiver program more than just 15 or 17 pieces of information would be something under consideration. again, do you think you have the authority to do that understanding esta was initiated by the congress after 9/11 and should we be giving you legislation to assist you dare? >> thank you. we are reviewing this as well as a number of other programs we have. part of that review is to regain additional authorities to collect additional information. i believe in esta we have the authorities, but that is one of the things we are reviewing here but other types of information but we need? how would we use it how we collect it? is a verifiable information?

into useful information into its systems to make use of the data we collect and would it be helpful? so we are looking at those things as an operational organization we are always looking for data sources with respect to people's privacy is very useful in a quest to collect that information and can we actually put it to use. in general coupled with a pnr in airline data, it helps us pay helps us paint a better picture of travelers and where they are going, for how long it would other information we can relate that to. so in general terms a broader set of data to allow us to identify individuals or even identify individuals who are not the person we're looking forward because we have additional data and we can dismiss any connections we may think are there with the person. that's one of the things balance

in the privacy on the cost and where we keep the information. >> just been caught in a thing certainly of my time but i am going to ask one additional question because in addition to that piece of legislation, i'm also preparing a piece of legislation that would seek to clarify the optimization that i think the department of state already has in order to revoke passports. we are looking at what cam ranh is in the u.k. and dual citizenship, et cetera. again, we are free and open society is living in a changing world here. whether or not you have the authorization to revoke his passport how can we help you clarify that because i was looking through, trying to become familiar with exactly what has to happen to lose your citizenship.

for instance, it talks about if you're entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state. perhaps it is ambiguous to be able to talk about terrorist organizations because they are not really a foreign state. these are the kinds of things i think the committee is looking for today for you. we want to give you the tools you need to help you to protect the homeland. ..homeland. and if there's a flaw in what we have, it's not strong enough, we need the feedback from all of you. i don't know if anyone has any comment on that. >> briefly the state department does have the authority to evoke passports on national security grounds. we are very concerned about the over 100 americans in the foreign fighter ranks. we do work very closely with law enforcement intelligence partners on information because we don't just unilaterally revoke

we don't just do you know latterly provoked passports that this is an issue set so we are reviewing right now in consultation with their law enforcement and intelligence partners our current tools at our disposal because this is a big concern. we want to be able to use that authority if we needed that not limit travel of other u.s. citizens in the region. >> i appreciate that. i would mention the time is of the essence here. i think you can see that because of the consternation on behalf of the american people of this so it's not an issue. we want to go off into an item. i think you will be looking as i say, i'm one member that's going to be introducing legislation today about these issues and i'm trying to assist you and we will see how quickly the congress can actually act. we are looking for feedback from all of you. without the chair recognizes the

ranking member ms. jackson-lee from texas. >> again let me thank the chairman and thank my ranking member the chairman of the full committee. again this hearing is not to dry you over here to the united states house as much as it is to make an important statement of oversight to act. i started my remarks by saying that on the eve of 9/11 and although there have been much commentary of the potential threat that isil poses i'm not willing to cede the point and agree to those who have a perspective that the united states may not be in the eye of the storm. i think the way we respond to it is experienced and balanced and sure as it relates to providing security for our citizens. i thank you all for being on the front lines of doing that.

that is what the department was created for and that is what the committee is created for as well. i want to go to a pointed question. in the collaboration between state and the department of homeland security in particular intelligence and dealing with cbp is it your thought that the isil actions in syria and iraq and the isil profile could be a threat to the united states? mr. miller? >> yes maam. as you have stated over 100 americans that have traveled with iso- and other extremist groups overseas and western europeans i do believe that it could be a short-term and long-term threat to the united states.

>> mr. wagner? >> yes i also agree and looking out the systems we have and how we look at the information we get from the airlines with the person's reservation information and looking at itineraries and other characteristics of their travel. and do they fit what we know about what the intelligence reporting or nonfactors and are we identifying individuals that we want to have a further inspection with and try to talk to them and try to determine what their purpose and intent of travelers. we have good systems to be able to do that. we have intelligence reporting to build those characteristics we are looking for in getting information from the department of state and other entities where we do want to take actions against no individuals that we have the systems in place to identify them and figure out what point in the process we need to intercept them and have

that discussion. >> ms. lasley? >> i agree that isil presents a long-term threat to the country. we know their leader back in january spoke of direct confrontation with the united states. as i said we don't see a near-term threat directly and no evidence yet of that but they do have a very sophisticated and savvy media campaign especially a social media campaign and i think her near-term concern is that campaign will be quite healing of individuals who would seek to radicalize whether they are in europe or here in the homeland. they could conduct an attack on their own at any time based on that media campaign. so that is a very clear near-term concern that we have. >> mr. johnson. >> we echo all of those comments. for the state department's just not the homeland that u.s. citizens overseas so we are also looking at that aspect.

we look at our protection of u.s. citizens overseas as well as our missions and adjusting posture accordingly. >> let me ask a specific question and thank you and let me ask both mr. miller and ms. bitter wagner knows the two acts of beheading were clearly directed toward the sentiments the infrastructure values of the united states and certainly an attack on our citizens overseas. to mr. miller and mr. wagner following on the line of questioning of chairwoman mellor i'm concerned as to whether or not we do have the kind of coordination that is actually needed. i guess i don't want to use the term eminent. i think creating hysteria is not the intent of this committee but i also hesitate to be able to solidly predict isil's threat

level inasmuch as we are reminded of our posture on the day before 9/11 in 2001. so let me just in the way you can answer this question feel comfortable about the level of court nation in this climate and mr. miller i would like to hear what level how intense your coordination is, how comfortable you are with the court nation and what do you need to make it better? i would ask mr. wagner the question. >> our coordination with the intelligence community and the law enforcement community in the u.s. is stronger than ever. we are working this threat daily whether it's with the fbi and the intelligence community. foreign counterparts, we are working with them. i just spoke with the australians in the u.k. yesterday.

there is stronger and stronger sentiment for information exchange with our european partners as well. we can explain some of our relationships burgeoning relationships in a classified environment with homeland. >> we take that information and we make operational decisions based upon it. and getting that information is really critical to us making the right decisions on how we operationalize that information. one of the things we would like to see is a strong response from some of our partners overseas and emulating some of the ways we do security management as was referenced earlier, the use of pnr, the use of the airline manifest information and trying to take actions in advance of traveling and not waiting until that person shows up on your doorstep to figure out what to do with them. i think we would encourage all of our allies around the globe to consider those types of systems in those practices and we work closely with a lot of

countries and helping them build up that capacity. >> i have two questions if i might just finish very quickly. ms. johnson i understand that it's somewhat difficult to track the travel of foreign terrorists. i would like to know what the state department is doing and how you are improving tracking the travels of foreign terrorists and coordinating with your fellow collaborating nationstates about what you are doing and ms. lasley if i can ask you the question of our level of intelligence in the climate of what we are in now and backtracking to 9/11 where we were saying quite the contrary. we didn't have a slight inkling of what was going to be happening that next day. are we in a better place and is there something whether you need ms. johnson? >> thank you. obviously working with our foreign partners as an ongoing effort. everyone has different legal

regimes and concerns but they are very concerned about the foreign fighter terrorist threat and we are working with them very closely. as i mentioned the european union is now looking at passenger name record situation hoping to adopt something by the end of this year. that will help us as the u.s. cbp officers to understand his coming and who's traveling. >> do you think the no-fly list will be made more robust? >> the no-fly list? i think we are all the time talking about how we can work the no-fly list to make sure it's got accurate information and that is operational. we do share that information with foreign partners so they know who's on the no-fly list. we have worked generally with our foreign partners particularly departures from airports. they are enhancing their own screening efforts that helps us are people getting on planes including other parts of the world to our european allies at airports and as i mentioned our information-sharing agreements

particularly with the visa waiver partner countries but also additional countries in their homeland security presidential directive six we share biographic information with foreign partners. a lot of that information is on the no-fly list and screen. we also have something that dhs and doj can talk about for any serious crime agreements which collects biometric information mostly fingerprints to exchange that information. so there's a lot of ways to enhance our security screening. >> ms. lasley if she would answer her question writing in the chair recognizes the ranking member mr. thompson. >> thank you very much madam chairwoman. mr. wagner from time to time congress has in its infinite wisdom cut the budget of

agencies who are tasked on the frontline to keep us safe. in the present budget are you comfortable that you can provide the security and assurance necessary that cbp is doing all it can to keep bad people from getting into the country? >> yes, i believe we can and i think cbp was fortunate enough to be one of the few organizations that could see a generous budget including the addition of 2000 cbp officers this fiscal year and in the administration's request for 2015 there's a request for another 2000 plus officers which we know are critically important to securing the economy but also in securing and facilitating this encountering threat. >> i am concerned about

technology and some other things necessary to support the increase in people along the border. i'm looking at the international side of it. >> we use those officers to deploy them in places like preclearance oversees, are it immigration advisory center to be able to when we collect information and collect intelligence reports and operationalize that cbp officers and analysts and other stu but principally cbp officers based on their experience and knowledge turning them into actionable operational entities and being able to question these travelers at different points in their travel continue him to address that. >> so it's not a matter of resources. are you satisfied with the coordination between agencies in terms of identifying these individuals coming into this

country? >> yes, i think we have seen that it's been better than ever at this point and as these threats continue to appear the information-sharing and the court nation gets stronger and stronger. our systems integration to make sure databases are talking to each other so when the state department takes an action against a visa or passport it appears in our database we can take action when the traveler tries to travel tries to traveler begins their travel. >> is that a real time identification or is that lag time? >> it would be a real-time identification. that information appears in different systems and then we try to access it far in advance of a person's travel as we can in order to take the appropriate action based on the questions we have so yes. >> ms. johnson there has been some discussion about revoking passports.

before the committees identification, are the present rules for passports as robust as they need to be given this present isis threat that potentially is expanding? >> thank you. i know our consular affairs bureau is working with law enforcement intelligence community to review our options and i believe they are looking at that as well. i can take that back to have the lawyers in the consular affairs bureau provide a full answer for you. >> well, i would but if you would are you comfortable with the present protocols in place that those individuals are identified that the passport cancellation process would fully

comply with that cancellation? >> i think that's a question the consular affairs bureau can answer better but i believe it's in real time when we were both passports. i don't know how many have moved on but it's pretty quick. again we do it in consultation with one enforcement and intelligence communities so there should be operational entities working side-by-side. >> and anybody else address that question? can you get the consular affairs to provide it. i think one of the questions that we are contemplating is whether or not when these individuals are identified are we doing everything we can to keep them from getting back here to american soil? and if there is some question as to whether or not that is in fact taken place, we need to plug in a potential gap that exists. i yield back madam chair.

>> i thank the gentleman very much in the chair now recognizes the chairman of the full committee the gentleman from texas chairman mccaul. >> thank you madam chair for holding this important hearing very timely. i thank you for your leadership as well. tomorrow we will observe the 13th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and why we made a tremendous amount of progress since that tragic day in 2001, we have to continue to be vigilant and be one step ahead with their adversaries. today isis is the biggest threat to the homeland. these terrorists are brutal, driven and intent on attacking the united states. the job of this committee is to help ensure that this does not happen again. the largest concern is isis's recruitment of foreign fighters many of them have western passports that can ease their travel into europe and into

united states to carry out attacks. the fact is you don't know what you don't know. we only have estimates. these foreign fighters are in isis threats and potentially thousands who we do not know who they are. one is the unknown terrorist of those with no criminal record or intelligence traces who could use a valid u.s. passport or the visa waiver program to enter and exit the homeland. for example in may at 22-year-old florida man who joined al-nusra in syria and al qaeda affiliate killed 16 people and himself in a suicide bombing attack against syrian government forces. u.s. officials say he was on the radar screen but acknowledged he traveled back to united states before returning to syria without detection.

it was also key for the administration to take real steps to stop the radicalization of our youth so that they do not leave for jihad. this week i visited the cbp national targeting center to observe the hard-working men and women who are responsible for preventing travel by terrorists and those with terrorist ties and others who we have on various watch lists. obscuring information and connecting the dots to keep dangerous people out of the united states is vital to stopping isis. and when we say i hope, very hopeful that tonight and i talked to the secretary jay johnson, very hopeful that tonight when we hear from the president to take the advice of the chairman of the joint chiefs chairman dempsey that the only way we can defeat isis is to attack them wherever they exist.

and i'm hopeful tonight that the president will come out strongly on this issue because it is a matter of national security and as a matter of homeland security security. it it if we stop them over there before they can come here. that is really the whole purpose of this hearing. because these individuals are just one flight away so i would like to ask the panel, have we seen this gentleman from florida get in and out and tamerlin tsarnaev who was on the radar did leave this country and come back to -- the terrorist attack in boston. what assurances can you give me that will not happen in the future? mr. wagner? >> thank you. so looking at the lessons we learned with tsarnaev and looking at did we have access to certain pieces of information

and certain pieces of information were actions being followed up and closing a lot of those gaps quickly learned the hard lesson with the christmas day bomber and here was a guy that we had in our sights but not really realizing his intentions at the time. we were waiting for him on the ground and taking a look at those procedures and getting connecting better the pieces of information we have been taking action against a person as far in advance as them boarding that plane as possible. whether revoking revoking that visa with a a chicken and a chicken in airline and the airline is not able to printed boarding pass because a visa has been revoked or overseas talk to and question and seize a person to predicate on the aircraft rip officers working in conjunction with airlines to question people to determine a person's intent. with all the systems we have on all the data we collect we can look for patterns and pieces of

information in connection on pieces of information but determining a person's intent is a difficult challenge one best incurred by questioning a person using our skills to be able to do that in our search authorities. >> one atop the secretary we talk about these visa waiver program countries. the ability to get more information and more data from these countries that we do more -- no of these travelers. could you agree with that and do that legislatively help you? >> yes. as an operational organization we are always looking for additional sources of information to help us paint a better picture of a traveler to seek out with her intentions or by having access to additional information and how we would use it in both circumstances we would use and how we would detect it. in general i would agree with that. >> ms. lasley intelligence side of the house, my biggest concern

is we don't have sufficient intelligence, human intelligence particularly in syria to identified the 100 to 200 americans that are over there. we don't have sufficient intelligence on these tens of thousands of foreign fighters that could board an airplane and come into united states. i know we are not in the classifieds hunter but does that disturb you and is it possible that some of these foreign fighters actually returned to the united states like the man from florida and are currently here? >> mr. miller. >> mr. chairman yes sir it does concern us and we continue to look at the unknown terrorists to look at travel patterns, to look at the data elements that we may be able to utilize to

identify future people. we continue to work with law enforcement intelligence community to see if there's additional elements we can utilize to help us identify those folks. and we continue to work with our foreign partners as well. as you stated they can give more of a classified environment to put the full picture together. >> ms. lasley? >> sir i would agree with my colleague's comments. we don't have a full picture in all cases. i think that is why our interaction with our foreign counterparts in particular is -- so they have citizens fighting and we share those identities and that information with each other. another department and her work with the state department both with dhs and the state are working very closely to make all of that information known and shared.

>> also when i asked the question do we have a high degree of confidence as to who these people are over there and not always satisfied with the answer. i think the honest answer is we don't. i would urge this administration and i'm hopeful the president tonight will articulate a policy a strong policy. since we have pulled out of iraq without a status of forces agreement and left a vacuum there that has developed into what is one of the biggest threats to the homeland in iraq and syria that we regain that are cognizant and intelligence and also that intelligence on the ground to determine who is over there so that we can stop them from coming back to the united states and killing americans. with that madam chair i yield back. >> i think they chairman for his very insightful questions and comments in the chair recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania mr. barletta. >> thank you madam chair. we spent a lot of time today discussing the threat of islamic

state terrorists gaining entry into the united states but i'm also very concerned as the rest of the committee about those who may already be here. last year the government's nonpartisan fact checker government accountability office, reported that the department of homeland security has lost track of roughly 1 million foreign visitors. mr. miller what steps is dhs taking to identified these individuals and ensure the american people that they are not affiliated with the islamic state and wouldn't the completion of a biometric entry exit system help against this threat? >> we have over the last several years taken several steps along with hsi are immigrations and

customs enforcement to identify those who have overstayed him prioritize them through our targeting system. with respect to the biometric exit i would yield to mr. wagner. >> thank you and we are using the biographical data we receive from the airlines of everyone coming in and everyone flying out to be a commercial air. >> but we are not doing land entries and exits. >> we are doing some of the land entries. >> my problem is if we are doing it everywhere we don't know if someone has left the country. >> absolutely and as far as the biometric piece we set up a demo lab with our science and technology branch which opened a few months ago. we have got some scientists there and some very intelligent people they are helping test out

what are the right biometrics to record an entry and ultimately that exit from the united states in the different challenging environments that we need to do it and in real time. so the course of this year and into next year we will be piloting different types of biometrics in this demonstration lab. we are looking to do a few test at airports over the course the next year and have a good pilot in place at the beginning of trust -- 2016 with what we think will be the right technology and expand to additional locations. >> terrorist networks have been using our porous southern border and open integration system to enter the united states. hezbollah has been actively setting up terrorist networks in latin america for decades now and are working with the mexican drug cartels to move contraband into united states trade al-shabaab has reportedly sent individuals to central central america to take a image of our broken immigration system and

claiming asylum upon entry and they are never showing up for their hearings. ms. lasley or mr. miller what measures are the department of homeland security taking to ensure that the islamic state does not take similar advantage of our porous borders and broken immigration system and is this border crisis we are saying with unaccompanied minors are concerned that now at hhs are taking minors and just dispersing them across the united states without governors or states or communities even knowing who these individuals are if you can touch a map. >> sir certainly we have had a long-standing concern in the department about numerous suspected terrorists and groups moving in and out of all of our border areas and so we are continually looking at the information in the intelligence that we receive in determining credibility of that information. to date we have not had credible

reporting that either hezbollah or any other terrorist group has been taking advantage of our borders to move individuals and nl. that's something we are always looking for but to date we have not seen credible evidence of that. >> just this week i've introduced a bill that would stop the federal government from sending unaccompanied minors across the country into our schools schools and neighborhoods without any knowledge at all of what's happening. you know i think we really need to look at what they are looking at as how to get into the united states and kill americans so thank you. >> madam chair just an inquiry. please give the gentleman an additional 30 seconds i can pose a question to the gentleman. >> yes. >> we worked together on a number of issues and documentation that i'm accompanied children ages two

years old in four years old in four years old and six years old are in fact known terrorists spread throughout the nation. you have knowing knowledge of documentation and maybe we'll have to look at your documentation that you have no documentation? >> i'm not saying that we have known documentation of the unaccompanied minors. 85% of them are the ages of 14 to 17. certainly, should we consider that i threat not knowing anything about these individuals and being sent around the united states especially with the threat that's going on in iraq with isis, with our nonintelligent that they want to come to the united states. don't you think that we are vulnerable without knowing them? >> the time of the gentlelady has expired and the chair will now recognize mr. or work from

texas for his comments. >> thank you madam chair. appreciate you bringing us together for this hearing today and assembling the panel that we have. i want to clarify their response ms. lasley made to mr. barletta's question and comments and seek further clarity from the member of the panel who would wish to offer it. when a member of congress says we all know that terrorist networks are using our southern border to enter the u.s. is very important for all of us in our sworn responsibilities to know whether or not that is a true statement. i've been told by dhs categorically as recently as last month that there's no evidence nor has there ever been of terrorists entering the u.s. through the southern border are border with mexico or terrorist plots have been foiled or intercepted at the southern border or terrorist plots have been carried out within the u.s. that have a connection to the

southern border. that is what i heard directly from dhs. is there any further clarity? >> would the gentleman yield? >> i will. >> iranian quds force operative tried to cross the southern border contacted what he believed was a mexican drug cartel. it turned out to be a dea undercover operative in mexico. his intent was to cross the southern border and bring the various objects with him to assassinate the ambassador from saudi arabia here in the city at a restaurant that you and i may have been attending that night. that's a fact. i just wanted to give an example. >> now our i. >> i will ask the question of the panelists. >> i will reiterate what i stated earlier that we today don't have credible information that we are aware of of known or suspected terrorists coming across the border particularly related to this threat stream.

>> or any threat stream? mr. miller and mr. wagner would be like to clarify what we have heard so far either from members of congress are your co-panelist? >> yes thank you and in building upon that the numbers of nonwatchlist of individuals that we have encountered at the ports on the southwest border is minimal compared to what we see in commercial aviation. you are talking tens versus thousands. it's minimal from what we have seen from watchlist it encounters. >> mr. miller? >> i would reiterate what mr. wagner said. in addition we do have very robust information-sharing with our counterparts in central america and in mexico, with the state and local partners. in fact we are embedded in the texas fusion center. our office of intelligence in

arizona continues to look at this. when and if that would surface we would take appropriate action. >> i may submit a question for the record and share with my colleagues and the answers i received from you. i would like to know once and for all what the facts support in terms of these repeated accusations that the southern borders the southern border borders since they been terrorists are exploiting in the united states and i want to be sure we addressed the anecdote race by my colleague. i want to make sure another truth on that. this is not new by the way. i'm going to ask for consent to submit for the record they all pass a post friday december 11, 1981. border check for libyan -- we been projecting our anxiety. >> without objection. >> thank you madam chair. about threats to the united

states on the u.s.-mexico border for as long as i have been alive and it does not mean that we should not be vigilant and it does not mean we shouldn't take these threats seriously but it does mean we should only track the facts and data and we should only raise these kinds of fears and anxieties when there are facts to support them. i would ask for my colleagues to do that. there aren't number of questions i have. most of them would probably be more appropriate in a classified hearing. here is a general one and with time permitting would love to get everyone's answer. we are at war in iraq right now. we have servicemembers over there. we have boots on the ground and advisers. we are about to formalize that were perhaps to some greater degree after the president's speech tonight and potentially with congressional action. what is a greater state of war in iraq and syria mean to you in the jobs that you do?

what additional resources as the ranking member asked earlier, authorities and procedures would you need to meet additional threats following a greater u.s. involvement in these countries? >> i don't know if we could just have one of you answer briefly. i'm about out of time so with the chair's permission i would love in over 30 seconds to hear from ms. lasley. >> sir i would say that we have an imperative and that imperative increases as the threat increases to share information so that we can identify and stop individuals who want to come to this country. whether that's with our foreign partners or within the intelligence community or whether with our state and local law enforcement so i think we will just continue to be very vigilant in making sure that information is shared.

>> thank you very much and the chair now recognizes the gentleman from florida. >> thank you for the work you do. thanks for coming and being willing to sit in the crossfire for a little bit and for your efforts to keep us safe. as i went through my own preparation for today's meeting it felt like the dwp is yesterday's tool or today's world. and so added 20,000-foot level the question that kept coming to my mind as i worked with my team team, do we optimize the tool for today's world or do we need to go to a new program altogether? maybe that means at one end of the continuum would be visas for everyone. it could be less restrictive

than not. it would be more costly than what we currently do and would probably hear pushback from the tourism industry and others. i'm not taking a position on that but what i would like for you to take a position on whether you feel we should optimize yesterday's tool for today's world or do we need to break the mold of it here and look for something more current? invited my question of course is the bang for the buck. how much are we spending? how do we measure what we get for those expenses? i understand 300 caught but i know you have more sophisticated ways of measuring what we are getting for our resources in this effort. so i would like to hear all four of you answer how you feel whether we have to continue this current road whether we can see around corners good enough with

this information or do we need to go to a new level to protect the future? starting with mr. miller. thank you. >> sir i would agree with you. i think given the threat we need to look at the information we are apparently collecting within the visa waiver program or in other avenues and then take the appropriate action and decide if we need more information to collect. as mr. wagner pointed out earlier operators are using are targeting system generally more information as long as we can collect it and give them their civil rights and liberties and privacy in variable top -- operationalize it. >> i would just add the dwp is an important program. it does give us information-sharing agreements

and allows our close allies to share very important information with us that we are not getting from countries we don't have an agreement with. he requires them to issue electronic passports would help secure the documents and requires them to report lost and stolen stolen passports so there are other benefits of what the overall program does give us access to and some visibility into. like mr. miller mentioned they are taking a hard look at are we collecting the right data elements and what information could we make use of and how would we collected? as we are with many of our programs but i think the program does have value but a good review and a side-by-side of the vwp versus the beat up grove -- visa program is a good study to undertake. >> is anybody doing that? >> we are reviewing the program. we are reviewing a lot of our

programs as they constantly do in the light of the constant threats that are rising. there are gaps in the data collection and gaps in how we collect our system so yes we are looking at a lot of these things. >> sir i would say that's across the departments of leadership is really looking at all the tools that we have in our toolkit and how we can optimize them to make sure we have the data we need and stopping people from coming into the country that shouldn't be here. one of the tools we have if i could highlight one that we are trying to to optimize his or her watch listing effort. we are making a concerted effort within the department to share as much of our departmental data with our colleagues in the intelligence community to make sure that individuals are in fact put on a watch list. we are responsible for that program. we have the dni and we do that for the entire department working with our colleagues and others. over the last three years we

have significantly increased the number of nominations that we at the department has put into the intelligence committee from about 4000 two years ago to well over 9000 this year so that is one example of how we are trying to optimize the tools that we have in order to stop travelers from coming in. >> as i mention we have our information-sharing agreement with the visa waiver program partners. we are thanking is information-sharing agreements and arrangements. in addition we are expanding the number of agreements and we work very closely with our interagency partners on the watch listing information to make sure our foreign partners have that information as well. >> i urge you and urge us to look at secondary and incremental and more incremental effort into what we are doing here. i'm going -- i'm a user of global entry for my business before i came here. it makes me nervous that you will interview me but you don't

interview people that could could be face to face that could be somewhere in europe coming into our country. to my knowledge i completely do that. am i right about that? in the current as the program? >> they would be interviewed upon arrival by cbp officer but there's no interview unless they come from a preclearance location where we would interview them before they board the plane or lost some of our targeting systems and some of our analysis gives us cause for some type of reason to have our immigration advisory program officers come into one of those 11 locations talk to them before before boarding and addressing types of questions we have. so the possibility is there. we are in a lot of vwp countries. we are in manchester, we are in paris and amsterdam. we are in frankfurt. major gateways and major places

of travel especially for vwp travelers so we have the opportunity to flag them for additional reviewers grinning. >> if you do it face-to-face with them i would love you to do it with potential bad guys coming from outside of our country as well. thank you for your answers. >> i think the gentleman in the chair now recognizes gentleman from south carolina, mr. duncan. >> thank you madam chairwoman and i think the panel for being here today and for your service to our country. in february 2014 this year the director of national intelligence jake clapper started testifying before the senate arms services committee facing looking back over my now more than half a century and intelligence i'm not experiencing the time where we have been beset by more crisis and threats around the globe. two days ago we had a staff meeting on fly in day and i shared a video with my staff of the nicest produced video. but it showed young iraqi men

loaded in the back of pickup trucks and dump trucks taken out into the desert and murdered. hundreds of iraqi's. it hearkened times of pol pot and the holocaust. those images of men shot multiple times to make sure they were dead as they lay in a trench. this is a real threat. we may not think us americans that they may not be interested in islamic extremism and isis and establishment of the caliphate but i will tell you what isis are interested in america and they are interested in you. in june i traveled to europe and i couldn't get many members of congress interested in going. we were looking at border security and foreign fighter

flow in june. if i was to have that same congressional delegation trip today i would have to turn members away because the plane wouldn't be big enough to travel europe to me with our allies about foreign fighter threats. i grew up during the cold war. nation-state versus nation-state tracking the movement of tanks and large number of troops along the borders mainly in eastern europe. we are not tracking troop movement or tank movement today. where tracking individuals. foreign fighters to leave not only european countries for this country to travel to fight jihad jihad. oftentimes being radicalized and coming back possibly to the united states of america to create and commit heinous crimes crimes. is that a far-fetched idea? before i left to travel to brussels a young man who had

traveled this area through turkey came back to germany. germany tracked his movements that failed to let the allies within europe know about this individual. he entered brussels. he shot at the jewish museum at least three if not for individuals were killed. have you heard about that on the mainstream media in this country country? probably not. i know about it because i was heading to brussels and was on our radar screen but that this was a jihadist fighter who came back to brussels shot of the jewish museum killed individuals and tried to flee back to north africa through france. he was caught at a the bus stop. free travel. free travel among those countries. no border crossings. guess what they're visa waiver countries as well. they didn't know that individual had actually traveled to syria and become radicalized. if a would have been a country that was part of the visa waiver program unbeknownst to united

states personnel have travel document possibly could've boarded an aircraft and travel to this country. we need to be concerned about that. we also need to be concerned about americans we now have identified a number that have traveled over to fight with isis whether it's in syria or iraq or the islamic state and whatever looks by going forward. we should be able to revoke the passports of united states citizens if they do travel to fight for another organization. in fact u.s. law under such section 8c1481 says a u.s. citizen shall lose his nationality by foreign acts. there is a part of the law that says what they that says with the intent of relinquishing united states nationality. maybe we need to strike that in future law. if you go on and committing any

act of treason or attempting to bear arms against united states that's exactly what isis and isil have said. if you go into other laws we can revoke a united states passport that the secretary received certification from a state agency that an individual owes arrears in child support in excess of $2500. we can revoke their passport just because they don't pay child support but you can tell me we will revoke a passport for people going to fight with people in isis duets and we are coming to the white house. we are going to fly that isis al qaeda flag over the white house to have two american journalists journalists. but we can revoke the passport if they fail to pay their child support? the secretary issued a passport in the supreme court terminated as they aren't giving all powers to revoke a passport when necessary. we need to revoke the passports of these americans.

we need to keep them from reentering the united states when we know who they are and we need to understand america the challenges of tracking individuals foreign fighters as they flow around the world throughout light countries where they end up. madam chairwoman this is an apropos committee hearing. i hope this is of the last one. we have a lot of threats facing our country. i hope the president comes out strongly tomorrow night in addresses this threat to the united states of america and the very freedoms we enjoy. but that i yield back. >> i think the german very much aware all interested to hear what the president has to say about this issue. i would guess certainly most members when they were home in their districts over the last month heard about this isis threat over and over being talked about and certainly as i think the nation understands and is looking for the president who

is the commander in chief to outline to the country how serious of a threat it is and what we need to be doing as a country to address it and really the purpose of this hearing in a moment. really the purpose of this hearing was to talk about what we can do legislatively to assist all of you and as i mentioned i have currently two different bills that we are looking at and introducing. i would also encourage all of you for instance mr. wagner you mentioned you were reviewing as you always are about changes in us than what things would be helpful. please keep us in the information loop. you don't have to wait until we have a hearing to let us know what you are doing. i know that what you are looking at doing is better talked about

in a classified situation but still please keep us in the information loop. does the ranking member have a comment? >> i thank you very much. let me just hope to make sure that ms. lasley response to my question and to just put in the record that there is i think the looming question of watch list no-fly list. i think this hearing should we the american public with the idea that we are being diligent -- vigil diligent -- vigilant and knowledgeable that i so want to form an islamic state. we balance that with our civil liberties so i would ask for anyone who may have documentation i guess it's in different jurisdictions that i want to put on the record documentation on the status or the type of -- i would like to get that report from anyone who has access to that and i think the witnesses very much and yield to mr. o'rourke.

>> you don't have to yield. i recognize atonement. >> my colleagues and friends from south carolina when i asked about a connection to known terrorist plots and the u.s.-mexico border mention the iran terror plot to assassinate somebody here in washington d.c.. there is in fact from everything i know about this absolutely no connection to the border. in fact the plotter was interdicted at jfk airport where he was arrested due to our coordination with the government of mexico. the person with him he thought he was dealing was actually a dea agent posing as a cartel member. the border was never exploited and while i think this is a serious issue and again one against which we must remain vigilant there is no connection to the border. i invite anyone and especially those who have subject matter expertise to tell me if i'm wrong that by understanding is that the border is as secure as

it has ever been and we do not have been a known terror plots tie to the border. it doesn't mean there might not be something and we should guard against it but let's deal with fx. >> i think this woman for his comments and i go to the gentleman and recognize the gentleman from california you would like to respond. >> i think the german and i think the iranian threat has come across the southern border. i will say this. for us not to recognize that we have open borders and we have no idea who has entered our country illegally and whether was an intention to get a job or an intention to maybe create a terrorist cell in the future, we don't know. i met with the security force in your state 30 or fired 40 miles north 837000 acres.

it's as large as the state of rhode island said they have their own security force. this was two years ago. he said mr. duncan we are catching on our property otm's. otm is a term only applied in the press in a way to children from countries other than mexico such as el salvador nicaragua honduras and guatemala. before that otm and anyone -- he said mr. duncan we are catching folks on our property that are african, that are asian and middle eastern. this is 50 miles north of the border. they came across the border. i just met with the secret service agent. on the sidewalk in washington former military guy serving nine tours in afghanistan and that is to tell you what he did in the military. he said part of his training was on the southern border and they saw thousands of people coming

across an called cbp and nobody showed up. he said part of our work was radiocommunication's intercept because they were getting ready to do the same thing in afghanistan. everything they heard was not spanish. wake up america. with a porous southern border we have no idea who's in our country. >> i think the gentleman and i thank everyone for this passion on this issue. obviously there's a lot of interest in this. i certainly want to thank all of the witnesses further testimony today and i know some of the questions that will were asked answers will be submitted in writing. we appreciate that and with that that. >> madam chairwoman to say thank you and i just want to say this is a committee of facts. no one knows and has documented those otm as terrorists. hank you. >> we would also mention that pursuant to the committee ruled

the hearing record will be held open for 10 days so without objection the committee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] ..

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