>> guest: i don't remember when i first got my fill and capable of texting but i suspect not. i said no bleeping way in i doing that, so i don't think i did that i did talk on the phone and i stopped giving that answer the phone goes in the middle and it doesn't get answered. it actually was not -- i'm picturing something in my mind that i could describe. it wasn't the science. you've done some great journalism and i'm sure you know this experience. what surprised me the most was the outpouring from the characters in this book in the candor and honesty and sharing and i want to say for a moment in particular this book level is

built on grief and what they opened up to me, what the hunters if you will come of the, the prosecutors and the victim's advocate open up to me stories in their own lives of abuse, domestic abuse, those were not ancillary to this or irrelevant because they went to the question of the tension. what in your life dictates how you attended to the world and in this case the story was on the rage discoveries or is it just morality and the way people attended to that depend upon the places they came from and so i think what surprised me the most and i feel truly honored to have been a vessel for it was the outpouring of candor, emotion, all energy from people i think

it was once-in-a-lifetime. >> host: to understand this issue we need to look at all the different layers of it. again and again technology throughout history has ended in a manner just what the inventors say or how you use it that moment or what it was when it was first in your pocket so it is a very shape shifting powerful aspect of our lives. what would you hope, and we have a few more minutes but how do you hope that we evolved in our attitudes towards technology? >> guest: i like the idea of taking a critical look and and berries and an elegy in the book that really hits it home in the

end i try to add up what all of this means and the scientists did me an analogy that says we would compare technology today to the industrialization of food. add to block out what they meant by that when we industry allies to become a lot of amazing things happen like less expensive food, giving calories to more people, a survival mechanism. but when it got into the extreme actually gave a vending machine and what that is is you walk down the hall and hit the button and get a bag of chips that has all of the sugar that you ever needed to but when you needed it as a cave person you have to walk half way through the jungle, killed the bear, fight off the bat and by the time you were eating at you desperately needed it. now it's going to make you obese and diabetic. so this turns into a problem.

the same thing as true today with is true today with our devices. they are incredible. this technology is amazing. we shouldn't lose sight of that fact. it is tantamount to the industrialization of food and we need it to survive everyday. just like that vending machine, it has the potential to short-circuit us by providing that he is like going right to the nerve centers with primitive social three words that can hijack us. so what do i hope? i hope that we become critical of this the way that we become critical of food. it's a metaphor we use called a diet. that's not -- it really takes a concerted effort because we are

just at the beginning of understanding what fat, sugar, salt. >> host: we are out of time, but i think that you have left us with so much to think about and so much to be skeptical about and so many ways in which we can think about this issue in new ways. so thank you very much for writing the book. >> guest: it was a pleasure. thank you. >> that was "after words," booktv signature program in which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, public policy makers and others familiar with their material. "after words" airs every weekend on booktv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch "after words" online. go to booktv.org and click on "after words" in the book tv series and the topics list on the upper right side of the

page. karen abbott recounts women in the civil war who defended northern politicians to send privileged information to southern generals to be that this is a little under an hour. >> i am thrilled to be here with abbott. i love her book. in the second sentencing which i love you take up and show this entire other view of chicago through the eyes of the two based to become most famous. in american roads we learn about this icon. so now what wired him just

despise you hit on things i personally adore. you have unexplored american history. and women with some real spines and really adventurous and incredible women. >> i moved to atlanta in 2001 and i noticed immediately that the civil war seeks in the conversation down in the south in a way south in a way that it never does in the north. but, you know, i saw the occasional confederate flag on the walls wall and there were jokes about the aggression and the point was really driven -- [laughter] and the point was driven home especially that it wasn't a joke when i was struck stuck in

traffic behind a pickup truck that had a bumper sticker that said don't blame me, i voted for jeff davis. so we were looking at this bumper sticker for hours and started thinking what were the winning doing as my mind always goes to what the women were doing and of course i didn't have easy access to political discourse or the right to vote. they couldn't influence battle, so i wanted to see what the women were doing and i wanted to find in particular for women who cheated, stole, drink, shop and flirted their way through the war. these are women i want to spend time with. that's why i love the book so much. [laughter] as authors we debate often ask about how we find our stories. find it as a bumper sticker hasn't come up for me quite often. so, once you've gotten intrigued, once the seed was planted, how did you come across

these incredible women? spinnaker wanted to touch the need to find find them that touched in some way whose pedantry we been told before. although two of the women do come with a sort of idolized the old confederate spy. they were running into the same people and there was a cause and effect of how one woman speaker would affect the other circumstances and i wanted to sort of leave the stories together in a really interesting way. one of the things i like best about this is there are these four very distinct characters. they each have their own background and experience into and their own views on this particular conflict and they offer the reader a specific view and entry point into the civil war.

we know where we are headed back to me but to me this is a really personal way. and these four characters are so distinct and talked a little talk a little bit about the four women who carry this book. they were "liar, temptress, soldier, spy: four women undercover in the civil war." they provided a book of comic relief and she was my favorite in some ways because she was insane. >> she was crazy. >> denise and i were talking before we went on and we said she was think she was like a sissy or path of spring break. [laughter] >> if anybody remembers she's having a good time but there is something off about her.

[laughter] the pre- danger to circumstances that they were 17-years-old when the war broke out and she was a confederate sympathizer living in virginia and i will just say she had no filter. if the un and miley cyrus had a baby -- she was very overt -- >> she wrote a great letter to her cousin that sort of sums up how she felt about herself and which is what she thought about most of the time. i weighed 106 and a half pounds,

my form is beautiful, my eyes were of a dark blue and are so expressive and my hair is a rich brown and i think i tie it up nicely. my neck and arms are beautiful and life is perfect. [laughter] i wear a size two and a half shoe. my teeth are pro- whiteness i think perhaps a little whiter. beautifully shaped and indeed i am decidedly the most beautiful of all of your cousins. [laughter] by shooting a union soldier that threatened to wave a flag over her home and she wasn't standing for that. so in addition to wanting a husband that she is trying to be in some sort of agreement with her husband. but what does he want in the

story? what do those the particular character wanted the story? >> i think she woke up every day wanting something different. but what can i do to advance the position to make myself more famous, which of course was a strange attitude for somebody that purported to be a spy. this is somebody but after she shoots the union soldier dead and she goes to fight with the confederate army that while she is really honestly trying to help the confederate confederate army and to gather and disseminate information that might be helpful in the battle she is trying to do whatever she can to bring attention to herself. she ends up getting attention from a very prominent individual >> she's quite obsessed with general stonewall jackson who is sort of my confederate boyfriend. [laughter] he was an interesting character. he was a rock star of the civil war and there was a great story

about him he was in the lobby of the hotel and women just ran after him on the street if he was in the lobby of the hotel they followed him into stonewall was great about this and said at this point leedy's, wheaties, this is the first time that i was ever sounded by the enemy. [laughter] and he was fascinated and obsessed with him and told reporters she wanted to occupy and share his dangers. so he had another idol in her life and rose is another one of the characters and another key figure in the confederate side of the story. talk a little bit about rose.

>> she was a difficult position when the war broke out. she lost five check-in the league cup -- lost five children and access to the white house in the 20 years prior to the war she had access to democratic politicians and she'd actually been an advisor to general james buchanan and since the election of lincoln all of the disappeared and she was desperate to regain the position of the society and the influence that she had wielded. would you be interested in washington, d.c. in the federal capital she disregarded the danger of that insight of course of course i want to do that. she immediately began cultivating sources by cultivating i been sleeping with a.

the chairman of the committee on military affairs you can imagine the that the talk was quite interesting. the neighbors watched them come and go and called her why you rose. rose know what she was doing and was very curious about her intent to help the confederate army. >> how did they first learned about rose because in a way they kind of want to be rose. >> she went to school in washington, d.c. and she had her societal view. rose at that time before the war broke out rose was still the leading lady of washington

society and her invitations were the most coveted in town and they knew about all of the politicians up for in the party she entertained democratic politicians and was quite influential across the board and she knew about this and just sort of ad by your rose even after the war broke out and it became a prominent spy. let's now move to the union and talk a little bit about elizabeth. >> she was the opposite of her. she was a union lady living in the confederate capital. she was a celebrated beauty. she said she was never as pretty as her portrait showed. [laughter]

elizabeth was a staunch abolitionist and she was born and raised in richmond and to spend a lot of time being educated and when she came back to richmond she wasn't pleased with the state of things and began bringing the family slaves and after it woke out it was a dangerous position to have before she was just sort of this lady that worked on the house of the hell with her mother after the war broke out she was a traitor, she was a union sympathizer and a somebody that they were desperate to into the confederate started very closely. >> this isn't somebody that needed to. she was well taken care of. did you have any idea of what drove her or motivated her? >> she was moved by the proslavery. she would go and weep openly and write about this in her diary and she would bring the

prominent guests to richmond and say i need to show you the situation and again, just be overwhelmed by how horrific situation was. the family needed to be welcomed into the richmond society. so once her father passed she began bringing the family slaves and started bringing her inheritance for the purpose of buying slaves and so this was something that was near and dear to her at the risk of her of life. >> what i found interesting about her that is related to this is of course her relationship with the african-american woman that worked in her home. talk a little bit about that. >> once elizabeth started assembling her spy ring she'd recruit people from all different walks of society that really she was the last person in particular to be the linchpin of the whole operation. she was a former family slaves

that freed her when she was young and she was a remarkable woman in elizabeth center to be educated as a proper southern lady i'm offering you one of my servants that might assist you in your needs. she's not a smart woman. she is kind of bubbling that she might fit the bill for you for a while. and so, mary jane goes to the confederate white house and she's high year and little does anybody know that not only is mary jane later it but she's also highly educated and has a photographic memory. >> that's my favorite part. >> while she is dusting his desk and cleaning up children's toys, she's also sneaking peek at the papers on his desk and listening to the confidential conversations.

do not drink who ruled out of the contingent in the book. she has edited a tragic back story and has father arranged marriage for her and she had seen what what marriages had done for her sister mainly nothing. she wanted more for herself so she cuts her hair and trades in her dress for a suit and she starts hearing about the abolitionist john brown and the drug beat leading up to the civil war and she has a piece of that. emma wants to live a life of adventure so she enlists in the human army in the spring of 61.

the first thing that comes up to their mind, how does that work out for her? [inaudible] [laughter] >> be needed to fill the quota is and they didn't care if somebody had disease, they just needed to have a trigger enough to pull out the cartridges and cared if somebody could march. they wanted to know if somebody could do the job and they shook her hand and said what sort of living has this hand earned and with that she was passing the army and became a private from wisconsin.

the units were with which to the civil war and one of the things i liked is that it is so balanced when you were doing your research. >> there were plenty left on the cutting room floor and fortunately the civil war has numerous good characters and interesting people and there were two sisters i was interested in. i'm always interested in the sisters and this was jenny and claudia weber to confederate ladies who like many southern ladies paid all of the manner of goods and smuggled them across and i think that less were at the altar. they not only --.

there were also interesting male spies. mail spies. you think they are the only ones cross-dressing and a fellow by the name of benjamin. she was 94 pounds, had these lovely delicate features, blonde hair and according to one of the comrades he had a waste as crispy as a woman. he would he would on an elaborate down and called himself sally and go to the union military goals and dance with the military soldiers and just say what is general grant of two these days and get information that way. so, there were devious people on both sides of both genders. >> frank and emma was my favorite.

do you have a favorite? >> i like them all for different reasons. i really appreciated a emma's for vulnerability. here is somebody that is not only having to pretend that she is a man. she's on the front lines in the blood used battle and she also has a really excruciating personal story. she has a situation where she falls in love with a fellow union soldier and to make the choice of who i suffer in silence? i love this man, or do i tell him. dressing the men to enlist in the army in the civil war and i found out that it wasn't -- she wasn't the only one. were you surprised to learn

that? >> there were about 400 women that described themselves as men in the north and south and it is fascinating how they got away with it and i came to the conclusion that the biggest reason they got away with it is because no one knew what a woman would look like wearing cans. they were so used to seeing them pushing full densities exaggerated shapes at that the very idea was so unfathomable that people were just like no that can't be. so that was just one of the things that enlisted the soldiers. what do these four women have in common

>> is the first time that women took the sword of golf in the public for their or there are the revolutionary war spies and they didn't talk about this. they were the victims of the war, not the perpetrators. they openly defined by the northern government said i'm a rebel woman and i will fight to the death for my cause.

it was a conundrum. the first time they made an advance like that. >> one of the great things about the characters is the research that you've done an incredibly flushed out and they are not perfect. the choice is made to show them to show everyone worked and all. talk about why. it's important to me to be true to them as they were she was an

atrocious atrocious race just edited a very wild things about african-americans. but as much as you can in that situation rose did not have that sort of same affinity for the women who have served her and i think that it had labeled down to the recent years not only that but her background and you find out a little bit into the book that her father when she was about 4-years-old had been bartered by the slaves and so i think that was something that followed her and shake her throughout her life. ..

>> >> >>. [laughter] not only was she on the front lines or being shot out by the confederates but the idea to be discovered as though women. like the supremacist groups and confederates spying on her. if there were strong from the gallows if anybody finds us. >> but am glad the trade everything she was to be associated with to be a

soldier you are supposed to be a man. [laughter] anyone who operates as us by is in a position to be trade confidence. but the consequences did not go smoothly for these four women all the time can you talk about these consequences in these unfortunate consequences? >> as i said earlier the government did not always know what to do with them. they were there rebel within and confederate murders they thought that would only exacerbate conditions. and also complications' interrupt the government is interested to get iraq to recognize the legitimacy. so that was a whole other wrinkle they did not know what to do with confederate women answered the their behavior would have warranted tightening and

that is the way the debut of how and with quite different experiences in prison was to the different levels to have to fit -- officials take them but suffering in prison quite a bit. >> what was the silent treatment? >> i found this hilarious because. >> she was well-known. this was not some anonymous woman. i should back up and discuss that after she formed her spy ring the first battle of bull run everybody was

predicting this would be the end of the war on the union side. we will capture them and move on to the next battle. and then in gathering the requisite information she summoned a 60 year-old carrier to her room she sat down at the dresser and have the piece of black silk and wool set up to make some of the un and gives a dress and says i have so many in my hair right now. [laughter] she leaves on the very important mission and after. they did not even know what you do. they said let's of pretty girl.

and with the headquarters let down her hair to produce a note and therein contained very important information for the first battle of bull run that was a surprising victory. after this allan pinkerton is on the case. and becomes public enemy number one. you do have all of these other characters and elements. >> but pinkerton was the name -- the main one but there is somebody that was contracted by the union army to do secret service work. here is somebody just as interested to a finance his

own personality. and this is public enemy number one. they're is the great theme of a torrential downpour and within the distance of the white house. she called lincoln.org also -- satan also. she looks in though window but as the union cap density on the couch looking over then passionately making out. he cannot believe this trader gives all these trade secrets. that is bad and pinkerton goes after him.

>> talking about the spy ring that has this elaborate story of putting notes in her hair but all the different ways they hit the notes. just give us a couple. >> definitely the hair. they had elaborate hairdos that was conducive. but they also had many cartoons that celebrated confederate women the ability to smuggle a cross the line and crinoline is a rigid page like structure that could span a diameter of 60 so imagine end of volume of things you could attach to this. coffee, favors, silk, boots and several pairs of boots at a time. and she was queen of smuggling.

they said there were missing 200 favors it was all the doing of spell. [laughter] >> so you are a pennsylvania girl living in atlanta this season jefferson davis bumper sticker in and johnson to the world of civil war. what was your review or experience with civil war history prior to working on this book? >> i started from scratch i came from not knowing what i was applying and quite pleased from what i could find in how war change women's rules. and back in creating

nonfiction i have seen it played longer than i should have to have wasted a good bit of time but the court ship changed during the civil war. i will tell you. prior to the civil war in the antebellum years it was a rigorous process for a marriage to have been. to require of letter of introduction, a formal letter of introduction. >> with perfect fet. [laughter] >> always a selling point. a letter of introduction to meet parents or the process for years before he could even think about being a engaged then move onto marriage. but they had to loosen the rules and the women they

gave them a the new-found freedom for real relationships. they went off to the confederate camps with a formal letter of introduction now they were going off with men whose names they did not even know getting the hands kissed and carriage rides and scandalous behavior's that would never happen before the '04. they were flirting in their diaries but a lot more sexual intimacy. after the war there were 60,000 widows there was no expectation of getting married and all the women who said i don't care. i will be an old maid at it doesn't matter the first time they did not expect to marry to carry on that tradition of mothers and grandmothers. >> you started with a blank slate how did you view this

moment and how does it evolves. >> one of the startling aspects said it is gratifying is thinking of the women of of weaker sex to be gentle and slow and not educated in genteel. weld they would hide things in their bonds and the hoopskirt its but also with regards to the idea women were not capable of this treasonous behavior. there is some great scenes' where they accuse them to say the women's immediate response is how dare you accuse me of such behavior

to make the conduct of the officer in the gentleman and i am a defenseless woman? and i will shoot you right now. [laughter] but just the fact they could exploit the weaker sex i thought was quite brilliant. >> you write about the intrepid of unsound women in their moment in history. did you always want to write about women? >> i always said my grandmother who was 96 always told me the dirtiest stories that i know. [laughter] and not only led three to the 19th centuryí brought fall. [laughter] but the famous stripper of the 20th century. when you think of the word maverick you think about

male character, even though the late james garner but with an mavericks' mavericks' with regina's. [laughter] that is my view. >> had to compare this to your former book which is also like mavericks' with vaginas. >> i am jealous of all of them the next best thing is to sit at my a computer to dig into their psyche. it is always a thrill when they do. >> talking about the prodding and the poking do you find you have stages to the process or do you have overlap how you operate? is that process any

different? gimmicky would probably agree that i have to research and write at the same time. i know plenty of authors to have to do research firm stand they hoard. i would research for tenures and not write one word i would research the rest of my life. but then you are in trouble with your editor. [laughter] it is the function of journalism i3 have to write and research at the same time said the figure out what is vital to the story you do all the research you can pull back then-- interesting but i cannot spend the next four months on that unfortunately. >> you do such a good job to capture their voices. what resources did you come

across in the rabbit hole? becker with tears at national archives which was throwing. that is that the national archives and i was able to hold that in my hand and this confederate spy held this one ended 50 years ago. dissaving with elizabeth that the new york public library i saw her death threats please give us some of yourqr blood to write with. i was chilled by a town in the years later? i often spoke with us that descendent of her brother that gave me information that was never told before. that was thrilling. and also with the re-enactments. >> the question that led, up

because through the book and curiosity the cross dressers of both genders was not unusual. did you ever encounter any reenactments that was no woman being a man or a lot of man as a woman in the re-enactment? >> i did not soon after but women had to write -- fights for the right to reenact as men.d [laughter] but there was some movement that women actors cannot dress as men and fight as men but they wanted them to play the traditional role but they said no. we want to be the women soldiers. there wasw1 a movement for that to happen in.

>> and i love these anachronisms yvette ice of bull run july 2011 and there was of man and his 10 year-old son and he said he said there is stonewall jackson by the power line. [laughter] you have to love that. >> grab your iphone and take a picture. >> the book is so compelling and is such a of a great read but it there reads like fiction but is that something you ever considered doing? this is such a huge part of what we have done for so long now. is it something that you think about?

limit for the next book maybe but not this one. i have 50 pages of endnotes and spent five years researching this book. i talked about the self mythologizing that went on. and with his important 2.0 those instances in the narrative. it is important what they embellishing and leave out as what they did. and also those anecdotes that they blow up and i explain why they embellish. something about their psyche and their role in the war and is as legitimate as the four of the rebellion.

the memoirs are a small part of a large body of research to have access for a book like this. >> it comes together suchl radically. we have time for questions. does anybody have questions? >> talk about the southern matriarch don't you think maybe this is more of a comment the southern gothic is so prevalent that pass to be a product of civil war as well? >> that is probably true. intel whole landscape even despise started to change the entire

landscape of the user roles and that influenced everything. >> and by women writers with that it is an interesting point. >> tell me the process you can up with for the title. >> is a great title. >> it was pretty torturous. i would send out emails "this is it". no. that is not the title. in the end we wanted something that they all worked and something that would be recognizable to be a very manly book.

and it would be fun to tweak that of a little bit. than to say this is the women's side of the story. >> you are the of publisher part of the process. >> i sent many emails to my editor. i will not even raise that with their response program is trying desperately. i cover the war extensively in and i thought that these were great snippets. they were just like no. no. that is now working. [laughter] so finally we came up with this and it clicked. >>o i have a reading request?

can you read the description of stonewall jackson? it is page 138. [laughter] >> so we have a request. >> she spent quite a bit of time violate his feet were as pretty as others. >> looking 30:00 a.m. looked more scarecrows and cuban. bright blue eyes and of mangy beard the uniform consisted of us that -- thread their single breasted coat from the mexican war. in the oversized pair of boots for the size 14 feet.

the fanciest of only 15 ground held them up. he almost never laughed from there we are occasions when he did the way it went to his mouth open and made no sound whatsoever. once a northerner captured asked to catch and a glimpse of the general than in a turn of disbelief and disgust exclaimed oh my god. laid me down. [laughter] jackson was hideous as brilliant. the brill peculiar legendary he thought of himself being on a balance. tweeting for the blood to establish equilibrium. it made his left leg week and it often made it

difficult to to determine the direction. convince every one of his organs was malfunctioning he sells medicated with a variety of concoctions with nitrates and ingesting a number of concoctions. twice a day he was on the edge of a fence and prayed for one hour.m