should be concerned about her dependence on them. this is a little over an hour. >> good evening. thank you so much for coming. ..

>> the book tells about the privatization of america's national security and exposes where the industry came from, how it operates and where it's heading in the journalist that has been a staff writer at "the wall street journal" and writing at northwestern and columbia her previous book a wild ride, ransom, beyond the river and savage beast. please joining me in welcoming her to cramer books. [applause] >> thank you sarah. it's great to be here. it's especially great to be here because i'm honored by the presence of another writer on this topic david isenberg is sitting in the front row and some familiar faces, people i've known for a long time that i've come to this event.

"the invisible soldiers" as sarah said is the story of the privatization of defense and security. it's a narrative nonfiction book that is a trajectory telling the story from the mercenary renaissance of the second half of the 20th century into the age of drums. it's basically the story of the rise of a new industry, an industry of military and security companies. some refer to this as the corporate evolution -- revolution of the military trade but the word mercenary is loaded and i tried from the very beginning to erase it from the discussion. because a mercenary has to be defined as an individual, a hired gun. it conjures the savory image involved in the word mercenaries

involving post-colonial and neocolonial conflict. it's not that they don't exist anymore but to call these companies in this industry that i'm telling you about that you'll read about in "the invisible soldiers" mercenaries is a little misleading. basically today's version is fundamentally, completely different. it's a critical factor of course is that is the modern business forum. these companies are hierarchically organized incorporated into registered businesses and daytrading compete internationally. they were crewed internationally. they link to outside financial holdings and provide a vast range of services in many markets worldwide.

one thing that i have learned while i have been on the road is that there are many misconceptions and one of course is that these companies are just about u.s. contracts, just about iraq or just about blackwater or some people know of them only through headlines about scanda scandals. there are many misconceptions and we will get to a few discussions on that later. one thing that you must realize is that this is an industry that is evolving right before our eyes and has been for the last 25 to 30 years. it got a big boost of course in the iraq war which some people call the first contractors for beginning and of course march of 2003. some of these companies got

their start then. some larger companies, weapons manufacturers, the company said eisenhower would have preferred to in the military-industrial complex comment in 1961, some of those companies developing subsidiaries to accommodate new markets and believed in iraq. we have a boost in the bonanza of u.s. contracts in the war in iraq and there may go forward to now where we could be facing what some people are calling the second contractors war. but as i said what we are watching and what i want my readers to be as fascinated by as i am and as i have been for the last couple of years is the evolution of this industry and

the vast array of services that companies offer. everything from logistics support which is something we all know about your halliburton and iraq, logistic support, air transport, intelligence analys analysis, militia training, weapons management, weapons maintenance, weapons training and police training, a vast array of services and of course moving into our security. and in many markets in every continent these companies have a presence and they were crewed internationally. and they do serve as brokers periodically for mercenaries. we have some companies that are

focused on armed security and some that are some people call them for department stores of defense and security and offer a wide range of armed and unarmed services that wherever instability threatens development on the global frontier wherever military commitment exceeds the capability of the nation, wherever governments are used and incapable of supplying defense and security fast enough in times of sudden conflict, that's where there are markets for these companies. more specifically the united states of course they have contingency operations as you know and remain long after conditional troops withdrawal. they also are involved in counterterrorism strategies, diplomatic security, border

patrol security, drone operations and cybersecurity and intelligence analysis. there are other markets. there are other markets in other countries and of course other nations. and with multinational companies and multinational companies for armed security, for development of hostile environments which will be happening for a long time. and the shipping industry, one of the biggest markets is the maritime security which is a fascinating story in and of itself. each one of these areas i would say one of the challenges of this book is the fact that it needs one of these areas i could have written a single book. i could have written a 10-volume set on the topic and just the story of the development of maritime security because the

shipping industry debated this for a long time. "the invisible soldiers" is a narrative nonfiction book and what i'm trying to do is to show you through a story, through the trajectory exactly how all of this happened. and also hopefully pass on the fascination and interest that i have for it on to you as the general reader. because this is a relatively new industry and what i call the portal of permanence. it's part of our world. it's part of the u.s. defense and security strategies and it has a worldwide presence. and so in the book what i do is i move you through that trajectory to introduce you to

individuals. i take you to london and you sort of follow me around. i take you to london and as one journalist said if you want to understand the origins of the mercenary you have to go to london first. i hope i'm not stepping on toes nationally or in this room that is fascinating in that way because many of the origins of course or many of the models of some excellent companies in this arena began in london or it began in england. i also take you to geneva where i introduce you to some really fascinating individuals who have been working since 2006 on something called the swiss initiative which is an international effort to monitor the armed sector of the military.

the name of that chapter is conquering chaos but that was a great adventure. i hope that you will see it the same way but to think that since 2006 there have been groups meeting in geneva to work on a process that will more closely monitor the industry is kind of exciting. i also take you to kansas to the command and general staff college at fort leavenworth where i spent some time interviewing people in the military because i want to get the military's perspective on this and that's where he learned one of the most interesting aspects over the use of these companies which is the difference between efficiency and effectiveness.

if i get into this i will be here for the next two hours so i think right now and maybe somebody in a audience will ask that question but anyhow then i take you to congress and several congressional hearings and some people in congress who have been trying for greater accountability. i take you to new mexico, to an interesting place where there are security contractors being trained and i introduce you to people within the industry, like i said in the military, people in the military and congress, people in the industry who have been involved in it from the earliest stages including some of the journalists who have been following it like david isenberg who is sitting right here. but what i have tried to do is and hopefully i have succeeded

is to pull together the strands of these very large stories into show you the components of the evolution of the industry, the rise of it and the spread and to put a human face on those components. i also take you to the story of u.s. special forces operative who was shot by a u.s. private military contractor in baghdad. it's a sad story, and i introduce you to several companies that i think are quite interesting in their success. one thing that is very important to me and i was saying earlier on the road i observed this conception and i learned is a great deal of interest in this topic. people want to know. they want to go beyond

blackwater may want to go beyond the headlines and they want to know what this industry is about and to what degree are we reliance, what part of our defense and security is part of it done by these companies and oftentimes there is an image and this is probably from my pulling together the details of the book into three in five-minute radio spots which have been great. thank you radio but what i don't want to happen is any sensationalizing on this. one of my quests in this book is to tell a compelling story about something that is part of our history and part of world history the result of globalization and is part of the privatization trends and evolution of privatization and the move of privatization into

various arenas and for you to see that by following the industry and by understanding it better you can see a shift in the concept of war. you can see a shift in our defense strategies for military missions and the stability of the security operations. you can see a greater use of contractors. for example in africans -- africom recently the defense authorization act about the need for greater monitoring of private contractors and africom which is a unified command in africa. it's something that is going to continue evolving and growing. it shows like i said the shift in the conduct and also it shows by some accounts the beginning of the saving of the

nation-state. these are international companies. it shows the operation of -- the order and -- operate in a borderless environment. in the book it's a nonpartisan book and it is hopefully a fair analysis because i get on the inside of the military, the inside of the industry and also i have introduced some contractors. and several in fact. part of the misconception is that they are all bad and when you read the book you will see there are several congressional hearings included in the book. one of them was in 2011, a hearing that was focused on the exploitation of contractors. some of the problems with their

health care, their food, their lodging in certain situations. because what you have in this country anyhow and all nations when there is a contract that's given out there are layers of some kind -- subcontracts so the subcontractors were addressed largely which is really fascinating. one of the big questions on the road which of course was something i was asking all throughout my research and writing and which has been of great concern and should be of great concern to all of us actually. a couple of radio shows, call in shows people would say why should we care? that is a really big question. why should we care? if somebody else is doing our defense and security and

providing it, some of these companies are excellent. excellent companies don't want the bad companies. they don't want the headlines about bad behavior. they have been working on an international code of conduct because of the bona fide industry. why should we care and in the question lies the answer because why would he be asking that question if there wasn't a level of indifference? why should we care? i could actually be up here for another hour to tell you why you should care but i'm not going to force you to care. you need to care for several reasons i think and i tried to summarize it. you put a 300 page book in front of a microphone for 20 minutes and the it's a major risk so it's up to the author to figure out how to fit in some of the

most important details. for me i could talk about several questions but this one is the one that i care about the most because of the fact that it does show indifference. the reason we need to care of course is partly because we need as citizens of a democracy to know the impact of war. we need to know, we need to ask for more transparency. we need to ask for more monetary and accountability and in the book you will see the effort toward that in this country and as i said internationally. but we need to have more transparency. we need to know what the role of private contractors going forward in contingency operations will be and we need to know the defense and security

of our nation or a neighborhood's. where did these people come from? who trains them? what companies are they working for so that we can learn more detail about the industry that as the wartime contracting commission after two years of study in the report of august 2011 declared that we are over reliance on private contractors. that included the vast stretch of private contractors in contingency operations but with a large focus on this industry. we can't just look the other way. we can't just say okay our defense and security. in several very passionate people in the military i

interviewed, people very passionate on that topic. you have to feel something too when they were. you have to feel connected. the citizens of democracy must feel connected to the defense of their nations. at the very least they need to know who's doing it. when we are told that the casualties of the iraq war and this is a perfect example, we were not told the contractor casualties. between the spring of 2009 and i think the spring of 2011, the summer of 2011 the contractor casualties in iraq exceeded traditional military. we need to know that. we need to know it because i think for many reasons but we need to know it because that's the only way we can as citizens understand the full impact of war. we have to know that in order to work with our policymakers and their congressman and women to

make smart decisions about the security and the policies of our country. there is also the one detail about statistics statistics is the number of m.i.a.s when we left iraq. i think by may of 20117 out of the saber private contractors. some of them would not be from the united states because they would have been subcontracted or you have to look at the breakdown of different countries that would hire private securi security. but seven out of the eight so one was the traditional milita military. that is another detail, but in the flow of the book what i was

hoping was that you will become as interested as i am at all levels of this industry, the financial level, the expansion, the history, the origin, the need for more monitoring, date many markets and many services and some of the issues like i said of the contractors themselves. some of the statistics sa said are impossible. you can't really embrace the entire industry and say what the revenue numbers are or how big it is and how many people it employs and so there are individuals and/or groups working on that at the moment also. but at any rate, i wanted to read you a couple of quotes from very bright people i interviewed

and then we will move on to questions. i would like to read from the book but i had an editor years ago that said never fall in love with your own writing. when i'm on the road i shouldn't be reading all the details are all the paragraphs in my book. i should be reading from some of the sources. he never said don't fall on the quotes of your sources. so there are several here. one of them is from -- wait for one second. actually let's do a "that at the very beginning from david isenberg who is sitting right here if it doesn't embarrass him.

he said this before a congressional hearing and assorted livens up, helps to give you a sense of how intense the reliance is. his statement about the u.s. government's dependence on security he's heading back to the alien series the film about the indescribable alien creature that enters the bodies of humans. humans look normal on the outside but inside the alien has wrapped itself around every organ and has become so entwined that it cannot become excise. the human would die without it in here because of the military security companies are so entwined the government would collapse without them. then we go to chris shea who was a former co-chairman of the wartime contracting mission in the spring of 2014. she made the comment, the one

thing that is a give and we can't go to war without contracts and we can't go to peace -- we can go to war without contractors and we can't go to peace without contractors. than a former british army officer in the industry was the director of a company a exceptionally bright and generous individual. one of his quotes was that the private military and security companies will evolve into multinational and multifunctional firms so the government and corporation will go to them as single servers and they will get used to relying on them. what seems hidden now will simply be integrated so that future generations won't know the difference. traditional military's will become smaller and smaller and the industry will continue to

grow. and the one from a general at the command and general staff college who has been very knowledgeable on a topic and have been reading about it and informing himself and was very involved in some of the actions in iraq said the nation-state with its -- to act militarily due to political reality is becoming increasingly vulnerable to easy solutions that avoid the complexity of government. that is the reality and nothing shows that more than the growth of the private military and security defenses. gradually systems of international security that have been in place for a long time are beginning to fall apart and the more anarchy worldwide the

more these companies offer themselves solutions. i think a really good quote to follow that up with, to follow that one is a less known quote by eisenhower. we all know in the government we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted government whether sought or on-site by military-industrial complex. that was the famous comment by eisenhower in his farewell address in january 1951. i have to tell you if i had more time i go into detail about being in aberdeen last week at the eisenhower library. it's very fascinating to see their response to setting the evolution of some of what he said. one of the comments that you never really read about was part

of his warning in 1951. crises there will continue to be. in meeting them whether foreign or domestic there is a recurring temptation here to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. so how many more minutes do i have? so i think that, there are so many colorful people in this book in so many colorful comments. i think i actually will put aside my humility and read a couple of paragraphs. i will read you the first two paragraphs and then the beginning of a chapter that is

about, i was thinking maybe doug brooks would come tonight, that introduces you to the trade association for private military and security companies in the united states. so first i will do one in tribute to doug brooks as soon as i read from the very beginning. the book starts with a prologue to introduce the general reader to the topic or a story and then it's in three parts, transformation to the beginning evolution of the industry and like us incorporated evolution and the mercenary trade into part two and part three is expansion so you get a sense of all of the markets and the fast services provided by companies. their reaction of course includes congress, the military

and to geneva. this is the beginning. but the boy would remember most was the shoes. they were not issues and they did not fit if he was forced to wear them for nearly five hours as he crossed the desert in the middle of the night. at first glance they seem like ordinary leather shoes but they were different because the heels were at the front. shoes with backward heels and soles were the invention of the human smuggler who helps people like the boy and his parents to escape from iraq into kuwait. the idea was the footprints were detected the path of the journey would appear to be reversed. although the boy wanted to go home that night but stopped him was an understanding that if he did his backward footprints would find a trail leading to the kuwait border and thus expose his family. he was 14 years old when he was forced to leave iraq in april of

1985. his mother went with him shortly after midnight to tell him he would soon be going on a desert adventure. for the first time in a year he felt anxiety of change coursing through him like a forced injection. the first time had been 11 months before when the middle of the night he heard a russia rapid pounding on the roof above his head. in his half asleep state he had a dreamlike image that it was his brother coming home. he had fled to syria months before to avoid fighting for saddam hussein and the iraqi war. he knew when he began to hear the cracking sounds of splintering wood followed by his mom screaming. saddam's security forces smashed through the front door of his family home in baghdad and his mother watched they dragged away his family who is suspected of betraying saddam and wanted information about them.

the second shot came in the days and months that followed his father's disappearance when a teacher and well followed her of saddam turned against him. each morning began with a brutal ritual of thrashing his hands with a stick and whipping his back in pursuit of facts about his father or brother. this was information that could lead to this -- but the boy insisted he knew nothing. all he really knew was the hated saddam hussein and in fact he kept to himself. but the first ring of hatred he had ever felt it was strong enough to shape the rest of his life. i'll go back to the very beginning. we will go to a chapter calle

called -- this is a chapter right interview for people in washington and with the hope that someday those four people would like to participate in a public discourse on the topic so we would get deeply into everything from cost-effectiveness to the human cost to issues of subcontractors to monitoring oversight and transparency and so it begins with the head of the trade association doug burks. dan the torpedoes full speed ahead was the rallying cry of admiral david g. farragut in a battle of mogul bay during the civil war. in february of 2012 it was a screen saver message flashing across the computer at the headquarters of the international stability operations association on the i street in washington.

from the office window on the eighth floor he had a clear view of farragut square a statue of the same union admiral. farragut was the first rear admiral vice admiral and admiral in the u.s. navy especially revered for conquering pirates in the west indies. burks brooks may have known this much about farragut as he did about the iso way would she not only headed but had founded. he was equally passionate about the highly enthusiastic booster whose job was to clarify the mission and capability private military security companies to be the outside world but not too much. he was as one writer described him a friendly public face of a teacher's multibillion dollar business. he was successful in his round as a hero.

okay so i could keep reading. i don't want to be, in case my editor told me not to fall in love with my own writing is listening but i thought those were two fair paragraphs to review. so i think we should probably turn the discussion over to you and to questions. [applause] thank you very much. thanks to cramer's. long ago i met john gardner at cramer's books right here. john gardner, the art of fiction. so do you have questions?

[inaudible] >> i spend every friday for three months at the command and general staff college and sat in on some group discussions because they have a special study in the spring of 2009 on this topic. there are several majors at the school who had written monographs on it early on, very interesting. what they were trying to do was they studied the use of private contractors in bosnia and that was their case study. then they have all these discussion groups about how to work with private contractors. that was the beginning of my research and i was very

fascinated by the fact that it broke through all the stereotypes and the support have been happening for years now. there have been u.s. army contracting command that began in the fall of 2008 but in that spring there was an effort on the part of all those majors who were there working on advanced degrees were taking a year of study. the concern was how to work with them and to avoid miscommunications and -- well you have to read the chapter but it was a very positive effort on their part. it was on that level in a very serious study of bosnia and also of iraq. and what could have been done better and where did the monitoring come from?

how can we expect better accountability? one of the reasons the international code of conduct initiative, the group in geneva trying to establish international monitoring. one of the points that they make is similar to what was going on in those groups in 2009 which was that no government is going to completely regulate these companies. it's probably never going to happen. some of the suggestions were what if we had a regulatory commission? what if we had a cabinet code since there are so many private contractors in so many agencies, what would that look like? there were discussions about that. what does it do, and what does it mean in a democracy to have these companies and use them for

the benefit of the nation and have enough accountability to prevent misuse and the empowering of the industry itself. is the industry getting too powerful as happened with the 14th and 15th century in italy. at any rate there were many discussions that embraced history and the monographs that had come out what is really the think tank of the army. also as i mentioned earlier there was a discussion of efficiency and effectiveness because they are concerned was that these are on call companies. that's how they market themselves to say we are the fedex of defense and security.

so it's our call avoiding a lot of domestic processes that are involved in pulling together the truth. so their concern was the most successful defense strategy in history and studied some of those too, the most successful ones were not the most efficient ones. sometimes to be effective is a long process. they had great concern about the on call attraction of the companies. that was one of the appeals. >> i congratulate you on the book.

[inaudible] my question is this. what do you see in the industry domestically and internationally? you talk about drums for example in your book. what vision do you think they will be pursuing around the world? >> yeah i would like to repeat exactly what he said at the beginning because it was a compliment about pulling things together, altogether in the bo book, quite a challenge. his question is what do i see as the future for the industry? many markets and a lot of money

is the simple answer and it's as i said and it's actually the way described in the book. i've got to switch back here, sorry. not an ad for glasses but basically in the general generals quote that i gave you earlier about as complex developed worldwide, of course there will be use of these companies. there is great expertise in these companies. you should go on some other recruitment web sites of these really big companies. the array of services offered is so inapt so the future of the industry in this country certainly border patrol and

immigration situation is a frontier for contracts, whether its organizations contracting them for homeland security and their border patrol division. the drawn industry and it's a part of the book i think you will find rather interesting in terms of all the studies and sort of the conduit for you. i've just been reading studies and interviewing people for years on this and i have read many studies about drums and the number of people it takes, it's a very labor-intensive operation. it's not the image you have. another misconception on the road. five or six people focusing on something and pushing buttons. it's hundreds of people and so i think there's a growing

involvement and there's the privatization of that aerial analysis and other parts of the drawn industry i mean the drone operation which going back to the military with something that one of the people i interviewed was very concerned with. actually it was someone in the marines who actually said he was concerned about personalized warfare and when paired with private contractors and drums. together the average citizen is in two layers of conflict. i think that area is and maritime security. you have to look at this in a fair way. i've been trying trying to get the truth out without sensationalizing but yet making it a compelling story. you have to realize that there are examples of success.

i would say maritime security is one of them, wouldn't you agree david? the shipping industry debated this and the piracy and terror at sea have all diminished. so that's another area and africom. i don't think the defense authorization act of 2015 would talk about the importance of monitoring private contracting. it says we have to do it differently than we have in the past. we have to improve the situation. i am probably missing something but the u.n.. the problem with this book is

that it's ever-changing and evolving. a study just came out a couple of months ago showing that the u.n. had increased the budget by 300% in 2009 in private securi security. i interview someone at the u.n. who said part of the reason is obvious is it's becoming so dangerous. we have to have armed security. when you read the book you can see the parallels of the increase conflict and hostile environments has brought an expansion of markets for these companies. you can also see that like any industry there are certain companies that are getting the most work which is interesting. i had five or six of them pulled together in one very big company including the third incarnation

of blackwater just a couple of weeks ago. so i may have to be following this topic for quite a while. it changes and evolves and it will be very interesting to see what happens in the weeks ahead and the role that private contractors will play as they compete. scholars have called the iraq war the contractors were so are we looking at the second contractors war and if so what do we need to do to prepare for back? in terms of transparency and oversight. would it be fascinating to be told to include the companies and the contracts? there are so many contracts in so many companies but to be told something about the role of these companies in the larger

picture. i mean it seems that that will just widen the scope of our participation in our nation's defense and security. at any rate another question. at that answer your question david? okay. you had your hand up. [inaudible] >> the question was about the u.n. and we talked about that a little bit. here's more on that in a book by the way and the second question about regulation within this

country. [inaudible] >> they have been addressing the issue. the u.n. is very interesting situation because there is a group within the u.n. that has been addressing the situation and people who have been going to these meetings regarding the national concern. the u.n. is involved in both recognizing their need for private security and at the same time recognizing the need for greater monitoring. it's the u.n. working group on mercenary. yeah and so there is recognition on an international level and there certainly is recognition within the u.n..

but i think when i found out since 2006 there have been people working on the concept of an international regulation basically, the international red cross and its humanitarian lawyers, human rights involved in it. lots of human rights organizations and members of this industry. like i said before this is a bona fide industry and you don't want headlines about bad behavior within your industry to completely ruin the whole concept of what to do if you are doing a job at it and you don't want -- but there are big problems. there are reasons there's an international group that has been working since 2006 on better monitoring.

since i'm in washington and i don't want to take away from the sales of my book but there is a page-turner 240 page report that came out of congress that is so wartime contracting commission report. i think it's from 2003 to 2011 but it's fascinating the detail about the reason for their need for better monitoring. you see that in my book, all kinds of incidents that you may not have heard about. everyone who is knowledgeable about this and working on it including representatives from the u.n. is well aware of the possibility for human rights issues broadly and all the bad

behavior that you see flashing in the headlines. they are also aware of the fact that this is an industry that has permanence so that means it must be closely monitored and it must be respected for its power and youth. actually another quote from the former british army officer that i quoted earlier i thought was really brilliant and that it's a story straight out of science fiction. the iraqi complex wanted it big time. now we have a new problem spread globally and years from now perhaps it may have to be stopped but for now it must be used and must be closely monitored. anyone taking a close look will tell you that.

so that's part of the inspiration for the book is to deliver a fair analysis. it shows all sides and realiti realities. at this point in the early 21st century what we are looking at and also to be fascinated by it. we are in a part of military history, business history and we are looking at it. i will do one more quote if i can find it but very quickly from someone who used to be known as or had a reputation for being once a mercenary and let me see if i can find is here. this says a lot.

this was somebody who had a very successful company who worked in africa kind of notorious in england. i'm not mentioning any names but all the names are in here. there are private names. it's a couple blocks from here actually a couple of years ago and a couple of quotes that are revealing the about the interesting aspect and the fact that it is viewed by many who have been following it for years as something permanent. that means we need to wake up to it and improve the monitoring. he says and this is two paragraphs. alternatively charming and witty

and somber he spoke for a long while about the evolution as what he called the pms industry. quote the american company came later he said. the british were early, 16 70's and 80s and 90s and why britain's history of empire part of our past, we have been around doing this sort of thing for a long while. he saw the trajectory of the analysis for the history of the american railroad industry. at first they were accused of everything. they were essential as the world was changing and they in turn change the world. the global frontier, the global frontier is like america's wild west. the analogy makes sense. he added yet another analogy for his industry. you start off while them and become part of the establishme establishment.

the experimental music becoming mainstream. it's like rap. it took 20 years and now what's all the fuss about? the point is that there have been people for years, for the last several years working on it and several people within the industry working on a system of guidelines and regulations. and so partly out of perhaps the cynicism that individual nations are not going to regulate them and also the fact that they have become global wildcards. there are a couple examples of that recently and one just very recently in the spring of 2014 when we sold billions of dollars of apache attack helicopters and hellfire missiles to iraq and there needed to be more people in iraq through the spring, late

winter or early spring of this year to train workers and train the military on how to use those weapons. some of the companies private military and security companies were hired to do that. we didn't hire them. actually the government did. there are other instances of that. this is an international industry. it may have gotten its biggest boost from us in the war in iraq with a -- but we don't own these companies. they don't belong to us. they are in industry and they are looking for markets and want to make money. so that's the fact that you need to get across. my big cause is more transparency and a deeper understanding of it and a recognition that is part of our system. yes?

[inaudible] >> again you have done a wonderful job. >> thank you. [inaudible] >> the reason you have that problem is -- and i think you are characterization of montre montreux --

[inaudible] [inaudible] >> we didn't go into the chapter where i get into the advocates for change in the war on want. i agree. this is my fifth book and i can honestly say it's the hardest i have ever attempted of any front-page story of any book because like i said i wanted to be fair but of course it's my instinct as a journalist. we are supposed to find out why things aren't working, why people get hurt, why there is fraud, why there is waste, why

there is human abuse and certainly in the pages of this book you walk away with a sense of collateral damage of this industry thus far. ..

any attempt as it involves the industry in those meetings in geneva and the documents which you referred to purchase the first stage on the initiative yes i refer to that in the book and then an industry gets involved in the regulation then you have to look at the history of the regulation and other industries. there are some parallels. and one of the biggest steps i learned on the road is bad many people have no association with the industry at all except for the word black water and the various scandals so it seemed to me the first step seeing that the government pays closer attention that there's more transparency that people have to

be aware of it and know though the fact that they can ask the congressman what are you doing about this and who is defending us whether it is in the local communities are internationally where do they get trained and what companies do they work for, how much is contracted for uganda or through. to have the questions, yes but you're right that is always the case. david eisenberger who has been following since the early to mid '90s i would say we are as at an important crossroads at this point. we have a chance going forward into the new contingency operations base is a time that history in spite of look back

and say we should have learned the lesson in iraq and the turning point was 2014 and 2015. >> we have to end it there. thank you so much. >> thank you for coming. we can all be grateful so i hope that you will come up and get a book and support your independent bookstore and author. thank you for coming. >> feed the author and keep the bookstore of life. [applause]

>> author and speaker expert joan biskupic talks with the politics of court nominations and decisions and the justices whose lives she's explored. the former correspondent for congressional early, usa today and the "washington post" has written three biographies including saturday but o'connor and the 2014 release on justice so to -- sotomayor, "breaking into the >> host: joan biskupic in the recent book the rise of sonja sotomayor in politics of justice you will did someone is did someone is saying i knew she would be trouble. >> that would be my earlier subject. antonin scalia who said it kiddingly after justice soma