we must encourage the students to look for the situations and work with their school administrators. i certainly want to see more resource officers in the schools. partnerships between municipalities and others to have that law enforcement officer in the school to help provide that security. we must work to make sure that our teachers have the right resources and we cannot continue these cuts. >> coming up on c-span2, the communicators. then scott brown of massachusetts discusses foreign policy and the midterm elections. [inaudible]

[inaudible] ..

>> the passwords and on the useability side you are probably dealing with 25-30 passwords and each are 12 characters and it is the perfect combination of bad security and usability. bebehind the password of thing, they are looking to give more options to prove who you are online. there are times crow you have want to be anonymous but downloading health records or mortgage papers you would want security so they are not online because there is no way to make sure you are peter and not someone inpersonating you.

and the third thing is thing is you want to enhance this through what is out there and know the data provided is only what is needed. >> host: what is the budget? >> guest: the whitehouse requ t requested 24.5 million and the hill has given us 16.5 of that. we spent the bulk on pilot programs testing out ideas and technologies to take the ideas in strategy and test them on the marketplace. but some of it goes to research and supporting other efforts as well. >> host: what is the work you do with private organizations? >> guest: the key with the strategy is and i talked about this and what the goals and problems we are trying to solve but the strategy provides a solution as what the president

dubbed an identity ecosystem which is a marketplace where we can chose from a variety of identity solutions online. this has to be driven by the private sector. national id cards were issued in some countries but we don't want to do that in the united states as they have not worked too well but in a handful of countries. so there was a recognition when the whitehouse put this together that the if the administration tried to provide a set of solutions the government would fail. they are not good at anticipating what the next best technology is going to be. there was a recognition that there are too many coming up

with ways to manage online identification and the worst thing is getting in their way. it calls were the private sector to work in partnership with the government to develop a set of solutions so that all of us within a few years can chose on the marketplace some place we go everywhere online. we have been blessed to have wide support for this initiative across the spectrum. one of the initiatives is called the identity steering group and that is essentially focused on how to create a framework of standards and rules to enable a credential you got at your doctor's office, bank and buying something online and logging into a government website. we don't have those rules for

the solutions to log in and they are focused on creating it. the broader organization, we have had in leadership positions since the organization launched, representatives from firms like city group, oracle, neiman marcus, lexus, aarp, electronic frontier association and it has been a montly group of people coming together where we have been blessed and they all agree the strategy that the president signed is something worked worth engaging in and they all have been engaged in driving it forward. >> reporter: andrea peter is joining us. >> thanks so much for having me, peter. you mentioned the strategy was launched back in 2011 and i

don't need to tell you three years is a long time for tech. how have you seen the eco system for online identity change in that period? >> guest: i would say it changed in a number of good ways. for the most part it started to evolve to align more with the strategy. one of the things i think the white house did good was they didn't write it in a vacuum they put drafts out to the public and different industry sectors to get their feedback. we have seen good progress in terms of the marketplace evolving to look like what was envisioned in the document. we have seen open id connect and fido specifications that are enabling stronger authentication

and we have seen facebook evolve solutions to give more choice in terms of what data you shared. facebook connect would default a lot of information like your photos and things you like and don't like. in april, they announced they are starting to allow anonymous log in or the ability to chose what attributes about yourself are shared. and google, facebook, microsoft and twitter are having solutions out there beyond the password to protect themselves but i am managing one of each sight i named. the idea the consumer is going

to manage six different solutions, let alone 20-30, we need to get to a system where it is easy for the consumer to protect themselves online. >> what is do you think the options for the average consumer? you mentioned it is overwhelming have all of these log ins and you mentioned they will be used by different sights. what do you think is the benefit of a consolidated log in and what are the risks? >> guest: better security and privacy and risk protections are the benefits. get a lot of questions like can you kill the password, i have so many of them. if we can get away from the password, which most agree is outdated when you look at how much comp computple in, has cha

and we are finding there is a lot of ways you can figure out what someone is online. we want to create people having choice. the government isn't looking to subscribe to one attribute but wants them to be the guide post for the industry to develop solutions around it. looking at the pilots we have, some are looking at smartphone based apps which are used in lieu atmospheof a password, fin print, voice recognition and not to say they will be the solutions for everybody but the

things we are testing out. others are looking at something like a one-time password that might be called or text to your phone to make sure you are the person you claim to be as opposed to the person imposing you and are on the other side of the world trying to log in to a site you actually access. >> reporter: jeremy grant, when you look back at what happened to target, how would the solutions affect consumers in that case? >> guest: target is a good question. i don't want to say too much because i don't have a lot of personal knowledge other than the press reports suggested the way the attack was executed was a vendor was able to log in with only a password and once the password was stolen they were able to do a bunch of other

things within that company's network. so that is an area where we point to if you had a second vect vector, i don't want to use hack-proof, but raising the bar beyond the password because that is easy to exploit and make it harder to get into the system you do a lot to improve the cyber security posture. on the consumer side, most of the fraud happened because they were able to inject malware into the point of sale terminals and i don't know if there is anything that would address that particular issue. there is effort to move away from the swipe cards but that is going to happen overtime. >> i would like to go back to a point about biometrics.

do you think it is possible passwords have a unique benefit over biometric? i get concerned about your password getting breached it can be changed. but if someone gets ahold of finger print or iris scan that is hard to redo. >> guest: that is a good point. a password is a secret, if it is compromised it could be fixed, biometrics can't be. you have to ask yourself any time you come up with a method to protect yourself you ask what are you trying to protect and what are the risks and then it is appropriate to ask about the

different technologies to be used. the devil is in the detail of how you deploy it. if you use it as one factor but layered on others they have good applications. on the other hand, because they are not secrets, there are times you may not want to use a biometric. and the strategy talks about choice. we find there is an ugy factor that volves biometric and people don't like using their eye or fng finger for something because there is a stigma attached. but conversely some people would love it. the latest versions of smart

phones are using finger prints to log on and some people like it. when there are choices and biometrics are just one of the technologies being used is how we think we will see the market moving forward. >> going back to a point about primarily using pilot projects as ways to explore what may or may not work. how is that evolving? what have you learned from the projects? >> guest: we learned from the ones that have succeed and the ones that struggle. we launched them two years ago last month. and one of the things we looked at was what we expect to get out of this and it was some will fail

good successes to talk about a windup couple. one later this month and early nes next mopth i know the health systems for viewers not local to washington, d.c. is the largest health care network in northern virginia with two million patients under their care and they will be launching a pilot of credentials to help virginians to get access to medical electronic records. they have been trying to make the information available online but passwords alone don't cut it. if you don't know someone isn't who they claim to be you will not put that information online. that launched a partnership enabling virginians who have a

drivers license and the first time you get a license you have to prove who you are and allowing them to ask the dmv to assert a few attributes to the website so they can have a better idea the person is who they claim to be. and we have id me that was started by veterans who returned to iraq and were focufocusing o case of how hard it for veterans to get discounts at place sas. a lot of places want to give special offers for their service but you don't get an id card you get a document that is several pages long and contains all kinds of personal information about you including blood type and other things you would not

want out there. they found if i am going to a sporting good store i don't can't to carry this with me. they started a website to validate veterans and signed up commercial providers to validate they are a veteran for the discounts. the founders brought in the strategy and the president said this is a great document and the outline of our business plan. through a pilot they have become certified as an identity provider for the federal government. they took the existing solution and hefb grew it up and built stronger proofing and aaa --

veteran -- can use the same discount to get 10% off shopping and then, for example, kiss, the band, wanted a way to sell tickets ahead of time to them so the vets can go there and then go the health portal and get information about their benefits. this is the solution we are seeing take hold and why the . .pilots are important to the marketplace. they are viable and growing on their own beyond the pilot phase. >> host: how does the paypal company work into this? >> guest: paypal we have been

working with. they have been interested, as have a lot of other companies from the start have. paypal has done a lot in payment and i don't want to talk about too one company too much other to say that they are figure out who people are as that is important with the payments. i think if there is an analogyi would draw is paypal made itedey to pay online and we are looking for the creation of companies like that you can use for log pin. >> host: a company like paypal has to have high security because they are protecting valuable information. what is the need for a national strategy for trusted identity in cyber space? >> guest: i would probably say you should ask paypal why they

are participating but the reaction we have gotten is this is something no one company can solve on their own. they can try to. they have fraud solutions and have different identity problems out there but there is no framework to use them together. so rather it is paypal or one of the other dozen companies week throw out there and if every company is trying to sort this on their own and throwing the customers through a burden process and trying to make sure they are who they are claiming to be that is driving consumers away. well over half of customers will abandon a sight if they are asked to create another user name or password. most people say 25-30 is enough. i am not doing business with you if you require me to do this again. so we are looking at reducing friction in online commerce and making it easier for people

online without having to go through this challenge of who are you and i don't trust you. consumers hate it, it dust doesn't help the firms and most companies spend a lot of on and don't it well when they are doing one transaction. we are continually heard there is real value in this for us if customers log in without a hassle, shop in a way they feel their security and privacy is being enhanced and this is where there is great value. >> host: andrea peterson. >> i am not sure you saw this but the was information that came from out suggesting you should reuse passwords on websites because it frees up mental space to remember longer, more complex passwords for more important or vital services.

what do you think about that? >> i saw the paper that microsoft research put out and i think in lieu of having the vibrant marketplace we are looking to create it was good advise. the concern i have with it is what we tend to see in the marketplace is password reuse where they will use the same password at a sight that is not particularly well-protected and this is why you have read stories of 1.2 billion passwords being stolen overseas they are going after them because there is value in them and they can use them at different accounts to try to log in to something. i would say for consumers in lieu of having a better solution it is good to figure out which

accoun accounts are the most valuable and make sure they are secured but these are band aids over a bigger problem. more than three quarters of network intrusions are tied to passwords, band aiding over the open wound isn't going to get us forward so this is why we are trying to move the market forward with replacing the password all together. all are solutions out there you can use to protect yourself. i mentioned earlier today a lot of big firms like google, twitter, facebook, microsoft, yahoo, are offering multi aut n

authentication so if someone from overseas grabbed your log in and they are trying to use it they will prompt it for the second factor. the targeting and advertising. >> what would you say to the people that are not as comfortable using this? >> guest: that is the state of the market today. we are trying to drive it better. one of the guiding principles must be privacy enhancing. we don't want to create things that will enable firm to vacuum up more data than they are

today. putting in a specific set of rules and trying to code the rules into the technology we think we can really start to move the ball forward. but what we are finding is in the marketplace and outside of what we are doing they are not a lot of great solutions that offer security and privacy. so i think consumers have to do the same thing they do online and that is look at the trade offs. from my perspective i value the fact there is free tools out there beyond passwords but this is looking at choice and what people are comfortable with. i think we will get there but in the mean time you have to look at what is out there. >> i would like to go back to to the 1.2 billion passwords. there was a report about the russians have a trove of

passwords. i was interested to see you brought that up on your blog with a dr. evil from austin powers quote. can you talk about if trying to do news hooks and pop culture would engage the people in this space? >> i think as viewers are trying to find it is complicated. we look for ways to make it similar and how we relate to consum consumers. one of the point we are making with the blog is 1.2 billion is a really big number. it is a stunning large number. and the blog provided a mechanisms to help drive home the point of seeing levels being taken at that level it should drive home the point we have a

problem. a big point we tried to make as we talk about band aids to the solution a few months ago the news about the heart bleed bug came out and they said change all of your passwords and three months later the news comes out there was a treasure-trove of passwords discovered from hackers overseas and they give out the same advise. people are not going to call in sick and change their passwords and we cannot expect people every three months to do the same thing. we need to get away from this solution. passwords are not the solutions is what i would say and get to something a little better >> whether or not passwords are the solution, which i think there is a general agreement they are probably not, what would you say about people who

are concerned that by moving toward the more centralized ideas and we are putting all of our eggs in one basket. what happens if the primary one is comp pcompromonopoly mised - compromised --? >> i want to say we are not trying to let people just have one credential. there is a regnition that people have different personas online and what you do in your work like you might not want in your personal level. so there is nothing prohibiting

getting up to 10 credentials or none at all. it will make it more privacy enhancing and in terms of being v vulnerable i would say is a real threat. i talk about the password problem and why hackers want to steal billions of them, with password reuse, more often than not, the companies that provide free e-mail, when people go to by a coller for their dog they put in their e-mail address and password and when that site is hacked that is when they have problem. >> host: jeremy grant is with the trusted identity in cyber space and andrea peterson

"washington post" tech reporter thank you both. >> cspan created by america's cable companies 30 years ago and brought to you as public service by your local cable provider or satellite. >> coming up, scott peters of massachusetts and joe lieberman of connecticut discuss foreign policy and the mid-term election. and then the arizona governor's deba debate. and later, louisiana's governor bobby jendle talks about his defense policy plan. >> on our next washington journal, we talk about the goal of electing conservative candidates in congress and then

moveon.org is here who supports democrat candidates. and robert low looked at policy issues and education and your facebook comments, tweets, and calls. washington journal is live at 7 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> tuesday a discussion on presidential war powers and the president's authority to combat isis. we'll join live coverage of this event at the cato institute at 10 a.m.

>> former senator joe lieberman and scott brown talk about a variety of topics. this is an hour and ten minutes. i am excited about this evening's two speakers and instead of hearing 12 second sound bytes like on the news we will hear two esteem politicians

and have a discussion about the most important politics going on in the world. let me infor -- introduce scott brown who kept his promise to appear here. he won the 2010 special election to serve out the remainder of the late ted kennedy's term. he became the first republican senator in massachusetts since 1972 in doing so. brown lost the seat to elizabeth warren in 2012 and went back to practicing law and later moved to new hampshire where six months ago he announced he was running for the united states senate.

his campaign picked up speed and his bid is seen as increasingly possible and senator brown said he is four points ahead right now and this race has national implications. brown describes himself as a reagan republican and socially moderate and fiscatly conservative. he served 35 years in the national guard and knows a lot about the military. but it is another title that garnered a fair amount of attention. in 1982 when he was a law student he won the contest as america's sexiest man and that led to part time modeling jobs that paid for law school. so more than just a pretty face. [applause]

>> thank you very much. >> joe lieberman was elected as a reformed democrat in 1970 to the connecticut senate and served three terms. he was state attorney general before winning the election in 1988. i covered one of his campaign stops when i was growing up. he was reelected three times the last time as a third party candidate. he works across party lines to find common ground for the good of de american people. he is one of the leaders of the american project that aims to hit islamic terrorist groups where it hurts: their pocket book. but lieberman is best known as

the democratic nominee for vice president running with al gore. he was the first jewish man on the ticket. and they won the poplar vote but lost the deciding electoral colleges. the were many strong speeches made during that campaign but one of my favorite lines senator lieberman said whether accepting the bid for vice president. we all know what is behind a really successful man. a really surprised mother-in-law. so may i introduce senator lieberman who has had a very surprised mother-in-law. >> that is one of my favorite, too. >> senators, welcome both of you. appreciate you coming from the east coast at a busy time for

you both. we have a couple different topics we will discuss and i will ask each senator questions and we will go back and forth and make it a free for all. the biggest one has to do with national security. there were a lot of challenges going on with islamic attacks, the intention between ukraine and russia and the intruder in the whitehouse last week. senator lieberman, what do you feel is the biggest threat today and how should the president lead? >> thank you, tori. we trained her in connecticut. and thanks to the foundation for what they contribute to the quality of life here.

congrats to the walnut creak historical society. i will give you a one-liner here about history. someone asked winston churchill how he thought history would treat him and he said he was confidant it would treat him well because he intends to write it. to get to your question the most serious challenge we face in the world is the threat of violent islamic extremism whether it is in the form of the state of iran, islamic republic of iran, or it comes -- which is shiite

or isis. they threaten order not just in the middle east but in many other parts of the world and they threaten our homeland security as we know they attacked us on 9/11. they clearly don't represent anything beyond a minority of the muslim world. the fact is when these groups like isis or al-qaeda take over, most of the muslims run because they don't want to live under that repressive regime. we have to work to try to defeat them and give people within the muslim world the courage to stand up and fight them. i am part of forming, i am very excited, it is called the cep, the counter extremism project.

it is focused on trying to cut off funding to the terrorist groups and trying to develop a counter narrative for young people growing up in the muslim world to go for freedom and opportunity in the modern world and not go for violence in and extremism. it started with a couple american and now we have a former ambassador from pakistan and germany and i think we will surprise people with the support where he will get from within the arab world which is now understanding that they are the first target of these extremist whether it is iran or isis. >> president obama made it clear there needs to be more support from that part of the world. >> i think one of the most significant things through your

securi security. some of the attacks on syria were dissipating but the fact is they were there in this private sector group and the government's can keep going because that is the way why going to protect them and ourselves. >> senator brown? >> first of all, it is an honor to be here. we were able to meet folks in the extra room having fun. it is good to see joe again. we served on the armed forces together. it is good to see you. we need to step back and see why we are here. why is there isis? isis is al-qaeda of iraq.

when we left iraq, we asked the president to leave a transition force to let the iraqi government lean on us if they needed and the president didn't do a status agreement and left and terrorist groups came in and they morphed into isis who is the size of new england. they are bank robbers. they get the money and steal equipment we left there and are using that equipment, the mission is as you know, to march down pennsylvania avenue and plant the flag on the white haiti house. our goal is to make sure it doesn't happen. i have noticed there is a lack of trust with us and our allies and a lack of respect.

the president said with syria, i am drawing a line and you cross the line you are in trouble but he did nothing. by also saying we are not going to use ground troops, i am not advocating ground troops but why throw the pass to make them think isis is taking anything off the table. we have the great depression -- greatest military and let me step back and say one thing. i want the president to succeed. as an american i want him to succeed. i don't want him to fail because if he fails we are in trouble. so how do you do it? the only thing we can do is go for the targeted airstrike and command and control structures and work with european and arab league partners to try to find ways to push them back and arm

the kurds allow them to push on one side and the iraqi army to reestablish. they are five miles from baghdad they have to fight for their existence. very complicated. >> you mentioned boots on the ground and that is something people are unsure about. you said you don't think we will need that? >> no, i never said that. i said we should never take options off the table and telegraph when we are leaving, what we are doing and where we are going. that decision is going to be made, according to the report, the iraqi veterans who left blood, limbs and friends on the battlefield are so disgusted and upset as to what is happening

there, it is a real problem. sends a very bad message. >> i agree totally with what scott said. if we feel so threatened as we should be by isis and the terrorist, and particularly after this unbelievable beheading of two americans and people from other countries, and our goal is to defeat them, degrade and defeat them, you cannot start that by saying we will eliminate the possibility of using ground troops. none of us want to go back to the iraq war, but there maybe a time when we have to put a limited number of special operation forces on the ground to protect our own security and i don't think you want to tell your enemy what you are not

going to do. >> can i add something to that? >> joe and i have a lot in common. we know 300 citizens have left america and are fighting alongside isis. they are not here to buy a fence with a white picket fence. they are here to hurt us. joe and i had the idea to form a bill that would strip their citizenship and not use the passport to come back and forth on a whim. we should keep them there with their new friends. >> right. [applause] >> and let me add, unfortunately, it was filled again in this last session and before they went on their second

vacation, they didn't close the border and deal with the very serious border threats and they didn't also take up that very important bill that the uk did and they recognize let's keep them there and not let them hide. we are not talking nilly willy. we are not looking at people on facebook and twitter. we are looking at people saying i am here fighting with new friends and i will come back and kill you. when you talk about the beheading it is personal. we had one of our own in new hampshire get beheaded and one that went to high school there. and joe biden saying we are going to the gates of hell to get them, well sir, the gates of hell have been shown in new hampshire. we want action. and there is a lack of

responsible action and that is the problem >> part of this is political and we'll get to that later. but scott and i are of a similar mind which is if you agree with somebody, a colleague in the senate on something, you have to be irresponsible or dumb not to work with that person because they happen to be from the other party. this is one i was proud to work with scott on and other people. joe and susan collins brought it up and we put it through in record time and did splng to hope reestablish trust between the american people and members of congress.

when we left they weakened it unfortunately. >> i believed in it so much i started claiming it as my own idea. >> i thought it was my idea. >> you can share it. let's tie back to immigration. you were talking about the need to close the borders and i would assume that is not just terrorist but there is concern about children coming across and you both have been involved in trying to tighten up the border. >> of course. we need to secure the border. and i know it has been going on with other presidents. it isn't just his fault. but the bottom line is we need to close there border before we do any of the other ideas because the prison and expanding the definition of refugee and saying get your kids in and it is okay sends a bad message.

we need to secure them, treat them passionately and return them home because we have mechanisms in place to deal with these issues. and number two i voted on two separate occasions to secure the border and voted to send troops to the border and address concerns. that being said, i know there are other issues affecting immigration but until we get to the core problem and that is sending the message the border is cut off and cutting off the incentives and neon sign we will continue to visit this over and over again in relation to what is happening with isis and other potential criminal elements coming through the border. we have heard there are potentials already here through the administration. something that keeps me and others up at night and i want an opportunity to go fix it. >> so, look, we are a nation of

immigrants except for the native americans our ancestors came from somewhere else and it is the strength of the country and continues to be the strength of the country but there is an immigration law. and people that come illegally violate that law. the whole system has to be reformed. as part of it, we have to secure the border and make it easier for people to come in legally who are people who have the capabilities to be here. one of the things that has to be part of the foreign bill is anyone who gets a graduate degree on science, engineering or math ought to get a green card automatically. let them stay here because they will create wealth in our cou

country. if the two of us were congress, scott and i could work these out. >> we did. if you have most members of congress in a private room and talk about how do you solve this, most would agree it has to start with a promise to do everything to secure the border. then you have to deal with the 10-11 illegal immigrants and find a way for them to come out of the shadows and pay the taxes they know. they have to learn enlngs -- english and make it clear they don't have a criminal record. and then you open the system to people of talent and capability from other parts of the world. this can happen if people are willing to compromise. the speaker of the house, john boehner, said he wants to do immigration reform. the president is frustrated and

said he is going to do by executive action after the election. boehner says if you do that mr. president all deals are off. so i hope the president, particularly if the republicans control both houses of congress after the election, i hope the president invites the majority leader in and says let's act like grownups and reform the immigration laws and compromise. >> i will take it further and say i think anyone who goes to one of our college and stays here should have the about to work. if we have seasoninal workers where there is a need no problem. some of the countries like irish and such are low and we need it modernize them. and there are 4.6 people

following the law trying to get through and they are block. let's fix those road blocks. so what the president is doing by creating an additional class of people and putting them ahead of the 4.6 million people following the laws is a deincentive to follow the law. whatever we do personal, i cannot reward that by providing them with ebt cards or prefential housing. we cannot continue to provide the benefits because they have not earned them. is there an opportunity down the road? i am listening but it will not be done undifficult we take care of the basics. >> i want to give you a piece of good news. earlier this week i had dinner in new york with a foreign minister of an asian country.

he was here for a week for the u.n.general assembly and other meetings. he said i know you have problems in america and the government is dysfunctional and i said really i had not noticed that. and we said i think you have stopped appreciating the good things happening in this country. and he said one of them is we have suddenly become -- we are generating our own energy now and that is going to sky rocket to a point where our economy will continue to grow and grow, but the second thing he said was there is no country in the world, and he is not from china, he is from another country in asia, where people of talent want to go to america because they still believe, and it is, the land of opportunity.

so we have a lot to feel good about. >> that is a nice point to make. [applause] >> i want to switch a little bit now. we were talking about borders and securing the borders but the one thing you cannot secure the borders with is disease. and i am sure you know the first case of ebola was diagnosed in dallas. they were critical condition but have been upgraded. we have the ebola crisis and today marks one year since california's version of the affordable care act, cover kale, began. i wanted to ask you about ebola and i believe you were talking to the governor of texas when he got the news >> i was with him when he got the call and they said you know the fact and they seem to have it contained but it is a concern obvio

obviously. who would have thought it would be that rampant? but it shows the health care and the ability to respond in that part of the world is not up to par. with regard to health care, i think people know where i stand. i am a state's right guy and i believe the states do it better than the federal can. ...

>> i don't care where you live, employers are keeping their hours under a dirty per week. my mom and dad -- my mom when she was lucky had a job with 40 or 50 or 60 hours. and she could stay and spend a little bit of time with us. we were a pretty dysfunctional family. just a little bit. [laughter] and now they can't do it because they have to have two or three jobs to meet that time in the family time is gone and the benefits are not a good. the gas prices have doubled and so she's paying more in gas prices. i believe that we have the ability to do it better. i look forward to getting it back and repairing it. >> quickly on ebola, it reminds us that we live in a world where diseases can occur but they can

move very quickly because we move very quickly. this case in texas is a classic. people travel all around the world. food moves all around the world. and we have to be careful. i believe that the good news for us is that we have a great health care system in so far as we have seen with the ebola cases, they have survived. because they can be treated in an advanced health care system like our own. but my wife is in a panic about it. she sent me two e-mails. be careful about shaking hands with people. [laughter] and so i am sure that a lot of people out there feel that way. but i am just saying that there is reason to be concerned and also careful. incidentally, the texas hospital

for all i know, they really handled the situation badly. and there is no hospital in america from now on it is going to have somebody come into the emergency room and report the symptoms that that gentleman felt. and they say oh, hello. take two aspirins or call us in the morning. [laughter] so without making a speech -- no, not you. [laughter] >> there is a danger and inviting former senators because we lost the right to filibuster. [laughter] and this is one that's gone and i disagree on. i ended up voting for the affordable care act. it wasn't easy, but i felt that we needed a focus. one is that there are too many people in the country that did not have health insurance. and they were going through our

own insurance through medicaid, particularly in the second one is a cost of health care was going up dramatically. and it was clearly an imperfect bill and it was a tough decision. some of us were wavering and in classic logic he said that the current system isn't adequate. and we all know that this bill is imperfect. they get it -- and you're to come back and fix it because you just can't get it right. unfortunately today because of the partisanship when there is a problem, people don't find it possible to sit down and across party lines and fix it. one thing that i feel good with my final action when i dined on

to the end it was called the public auction but it's open for a government controlled health care system in america which i think would reduce the quality of health care and i'd probably give in a c or c plus, but at first i would've given it a d minus. >> i better be careful. and don't write what i'm about to say it. [laughter] which is in the business mandate and we will see what happens.

and so like a brother. [laughter] >> recorders of the quarter million come from medicare to help pay for another program, it's devastating to businesses right now plans have gone down, the deductibles have gone. and moms and dads and loved ones are being hurt to be pushed out of the hospitals and those rehab facilities earlier. and that includes veterans in this facility.

and i think the people should have access to health care and have insurance for health care and that we can cover people on medicaid. and i think that because of the federal plan that that plan is now a mass. other states are trying to do it and that includes catastrophic care and covering your kids and you can do it in the states. i'm not saying let's not help people, but let's do it better. look at the post office. i love the post office, billions of dollars, look at the va. if you think the federal government can do it better than us, and we are just going to respectfully disagree. >> so we pattern the national health care bill. >> we didn't cut three quarters of a trillion dollars and maybe there was a loose association that was there.

>> who is the governor? >> it was governor romney who was right on russia and i don't obamacare and right on the economy. >> and there's a lot more reports that show that you can get much better coverage for much less. some coverage you can pay $800 for a tylenol and stuff like that. but there has to be a better way. >> there's definitely stuff we need to fix or it. >> one thing is that you have both brought this up. when i went to cover the inauguration on january 2013, i got to speak to nancy pelosi and my big question for her, and i want to bring it up to you, what do we do about the function and congress and if someone wants to

get back in to the senate next month, what do you think needs to happen in order for the congress to be able to move forward? >> that is easy. i am an american first. i'm not a republican first. and one of the reasons i want to go back there is because recently hairy reed and chuck schumer misled the people about "fast and furious", the irs panel, what is happening with our allies and a lot of it is happening in syria and iraq. my wife said with all due respect, go down and get back and get involved. the key is that you need bipartisan senators. i was 5050 and you can't argue with that. i was 50/50. and many people on both sides vote 99% of the time of their party. and i mean this whole heartedly

that i truly admire and respect anyone there. he was the most awful and compassionate problem solver their. and when he left the united states senate lost someone very special and it was people like him and senator collins and joe manchin, they are good democrats and republicans in the middle of those moderate fiscal conservatives and on both sides of every issue we need to talk about being an american first and our country is in trouble. we have an energy policy that is problematic and we have border and immigration problems, our view in the world not being respected. we have to restore america. so the only way to do that is to send independent problem

solver's back or support those types of people. not only in washington but in the city councils and the assemblies in the state houses as well. [applause] >> scott has described the problem really well. as the years went on i was so struck and disappointed about the fact that really the good people -- they want to serve the country. if they get here and they get divided into these strange and almost childish boring type of teams. our first president warned in his farewell address as the danger of what he called political factions, really political parties, he said that he worried that future americans would put the interests of the political section ahead of the interest of the country.

and we are really living the nightmare today. each party used to be quite diverse and every year one of the magazines in washington, i believe it was national journal, rates members of congress in key areas including social policy, economic policy, foreign nationals 30 policy. and they raised that on the liberal conservative type of scale. for most years we have, in the middle, about 20 or 30 people which is a mixture of democrats and republicans. in recent years you can't find a democrat who is more liberal than any republican. do i have that right? and see what an independent i am? [laughter] >> you know what i'm saying. but here's the bottom line.

the main point is are you a republican, a democrat, or an american. and we ought to have put america first. the second thing is we have to be willing to compromise. we can't get anything done without compromising. i don't mean compromising the principle that when you go into a negotiation on a piece of legislation, you can't say i will not vote for this must i get 100% of what i want. if you get 50%, okay, 70%. even better. but that is not happening. and i will tell you that we have some enormous problems. the deficit, the deck, immigration is an enormous problem. the question is will congress get together and solve those problems before they become a catastrophe. ultimately, you know, as george for one, george bernard shaw

said this. well, it's up to the people. [laughter] >> every day i hear about this. >> i appeal to you. i want you to go down or and do what you think is right and to get something done. even if i disagree with you on that one because the country needs to solve our problem. >> do you think that is something that is still possible? >> i am hopeful. i'm a i am a glass half-full type of guy. i believe in america. i believe that we can restore america to greatness and i think it's a great country that we have some work to do in certain areas. they don't talk, they don't work together, they leave at 12:00 o'clock on thursday and come back monday night for a fake vote. if i was the leader i would tell them we're not going home and we

are going to do a couple of retreats together and it's no each other and our families and we are going to kind of reconnect. [applause] >> we have some questions from the audience. these gentlemenare willing to talk about this. senator brown, let's start with addressing income inequality. >> well, one of the ways that we can kind of rise of up for everyone's votes, we need to repeal obamacare and get that wet blanket off of people and businesses and individuals. if you look at the challenges right now, and just so you know, my mom and dad were married and divorced, my mom was on welfare. arrested at 12. it wasn't easy. my first job was at dunkin' donuts. you guys know that is around here. [laughter] >> but my mother struggled,

obviously, to provide for her family. but when you're looking at how you are getting ahead, i remember like it was yesterday when i had those challenges. ronald reagan said that we are a party of opportunity and if you work hard and join forces and you create a business and a corporation, that corporation can actually hire people and grow and expand. so i want everybody to have the opportunity that i had that ronald reagan put in my head and you have to do it by allowing our job creators the ability to create jobs. obamacare is the biggest atlantic, the high cost of energy, prices are doubling as winter in new hampshire. we have the situation with the bureaucrats, circumventing lives and putting more and more regulation. we have the highest tax rate in the industrialized world and i

was driving from the airport listening to the airport about this. so in this area because they can't afford to maintain this, they gave it to the homeowners in the homeowners are not having success. so every time you turn round the government, whether it's the state or local or federal government, they are looking for more money. if you think the federal government doesn't have enough money, you are wrong. there's plenty of money and let's find a way to do that consolidating and let's fix the tax code, let's find ways to do it like we are doing in our homes and businesses. and then if there is a question, then come to me. but the only way we're going to address income inequality is to allow people to have jobs and right now it's flat. >> there certain sectors. certain sectors are doing well. but all in all things are flat, businesses and individuals are very nervous right now. >> you hear this a lot in

washington. the simple answer to income inequality is to raise this. but i think that this is the wrong answer. if you look at our tax system, it's very progressive and about 50% of the people are saying, okay, we have something called the earned income tax credit which helps people at the lower and who are working to be able to save a little bit more. i know this is a slogan but i think the best way to end income inequality is to get the economy growing more. that's just the way it happens and for me the most significant thing we can do to get the economy growing more is to have a long-term debt reduction plan for america. because dogs don't come from government. they come from the private sector. a lot of the private sector is sitting on an enormous amount of cash. because they don't know what's coming. >> they can't get it back maca can't bring them back from a

book. some of them are sitting on her because they don't know what the future is. i think that if we create stability and if we put ourselves back with some kind of balance with our federal government, that's the best thing we can do to end income inequality. there's one other thing that i'm going to mention, which is during the last great recession, a certain number of people lost their jobs who will never get those jobs back. they are not there. a lot of them are not so old. some are in their 40s and 50s and we have to figure out ways, maybe tax incentives, to retrain those people for jobs. >> bringing in another question that someone had talked about in a satellite room. senator, you talked about this special insight talking about intruders breaking into the white house. there was one very public event on friday and there have been others as well.

you have the secret service when you're the vice presidential nominee. do you think that they have weakened significantly or what has happened to it? >> i can tell you that all of my memories of that relationship with the secret service, these are extraordinary people and everyone puts their lives on the line. i will never forget a few times walking through a crowd. i never told the story in public before but i felt a hand going to the back of my bill and one individual leaned forward and said, there's something out there i don't like. he must've seen something in the crowd. as he got closer to me, about as close as he could get, that is the way they are. and it's been actually very disheartening for me to watch this series of events going back

and then these lapses. so something has gone wrong and these are good people that work hard but the culture and it's not up to me, but i think maybe a new director from outside, maybe somebody from the ability to shake it up and make it work again. >> there so much bureaucracy. >> i don't really think that's a problem. i really think it's within the organization. but here's something else, the secret service still has historic responsibility. they still investigate cases of counterfeiting money. they have so much to do to

protect the president and visiting dignitaries and etc. and how to go to the fbi and let them focus on security. >> i will refer to his expertise. >> thank you, senator brown. the international opinion of the usa, does it improve or decline under president obama? >> i think because it was confusing, foreign policy has absolutely declined and there's a lack of trust. not only between our allies and the united states, but there is also a lack of trust between the american citizens and big government which includes members of congress and there's a lack of trust there. they are upset about the dysfunction and the lack of transparency when you talk about benghazi and "fast and furious" them when you're looking at

agencies reportedly being used as political arms. the irs, the justice department and what was happening with some of the targets were lack of prosecution in areas. so we live, as i said, in the greatest country in the world. i'm hopeful and i know democracy is not easy, it's messy. i'm hoping that we will get it together and folks will finally say, okay, we had our fun and let's just take back our country and get things back on track. >> is surprisingly the polling that we have seen, it is unusual because when president bush left he wasn't popular. obama came in and there was tremendous hope around the world. but i do think a lot of it is

because we sent certain messages. and it's a dangerous world and it's a world, if you're the greatest country in the world, which we are, unless our enemies fear us and our allies trust us, the world is going to be a much more dangerous place. and i've heard this over and over. most of these problems have happened in the middle east. but we asked them the other night, what is the opinion of the u.s. and asia today. and he said there's great respect for the economy and everyone wants to go to america. but really we don't know whether we can rely on you anymore. you know, we have china, which threatens a lot of us, we watched what happened in syria with the red lines and we said

to ourselves, wow, the chinese move on these islands and the japanese believe this. so what would the united states to? the president began to turn this around at a speech at the united nations. he said some things that he should've said five years ago that they are just some places in the world where you have to use force to protect her interests and values. and i just hope he sticks with it. and then he kind of said things that undercut the strength of that. i've been a critic of his end of we need them to succeed. these are going to be very critical and i hope he continues on the the city struck upon.

>> the speeches are over, people don't want speeches that direction and guidance and we have the president wanted to cut our military dumped world war ii levels and there's economic challenges and where china owns a fair amount of our debt and china's military is building up. and since the starting of the state of israel, that relationship is terrible and bladder pruden has another two years to see what is happening in syria and iraq and

afghanistan and then we see what is happening in africa boko haram and so we sent a bill to the foreign relations committee asking them, we sent them to hillary clinton asking them about this and they did nothing. so there's this constant lack of understanding in comprehending what the problems are, sending the terrible messages and it's really coming back, unfortunately, to hurt us dramatically. >> there is also the chinese control the elections and getting your reaction about israel and hamas. is that something that is ever going to be settled? do we ever see any peace in the middle? >> i will just say first this is a remarkable moment and it continues to happen and it

happened as the arab spring was short-lived. these people rising up during their economic opportunity. it happened when the ukrainian people said they wanted to be part of europe and they didn't want to be part of being dominated by russia. and 20 years ago, almost 20 years ago and we will choose the candidates. we will choose the candidate to choose from. [laughter]

and the government was using force but what is the big deal, let them choose their leader. and what i have seen in the last three or four years is that we were focused on the israeli and palestinian conflict and the larger and more consequential conflicts are now between the modernizers and the extremists in the violent extremists and in some sense falling back to the old sunni versus shiite conflict. and if it could be solved, it would help everything. and so it's just, when you have a group like hamas that is openly committed to the terrorist action against israel,

the israelis are never going to come to the table with them. but they did sit down at the table and that we say had some steps forward. it is hard to be optimistic about it right now is really part of the larger problem in the muslim world. because the palestinian authority leadership is relatively moderate and we always voted to support them financially and politically. but they are now being threatened by people like hamas who are part of the muslim brotherhood and sort of the presence of isis. so as long as that happens, there's can be trouble in the middle east. >> hamas has been there to wipe israel off the face of the earth. childcare facilities, police facilities, bunkers, it's no way to live. and it's about smaller than the

state of rhode island. they are under siege and i certainly support their efforts. and i think that that is what is happening with iran. i never would've allowed that forward without absolute positive steps toward enriching uranium and the fact that the president has already given them an extension and got them nothing in return. it's that lack of clarity in the lack of commitment. we should've said immediately that we are putting sanctions on us. that's what i'm looking forward to hopefully getting back and reading matt chart. >> i know that you can't look at crystal balls, but the election is coming up in less than five weeks. and i'm assuming that you're confident that the senate will turn? >> i take each day and i'm not one of those. i do think that ideal in fact and i'm going to wait until november 4 and focus on what i

can do to help, i believe. there are certain indications and i'm either tied her up right now. so it's going to be interesting. people are looking for independent leadership versus rubberstamps at this point. so we will have to see. >> any predictions over here, senator? >> i was always a wild independent anyway. so i am out. but i can't predict in these races can change quickly. but i would say the bottom line is the the odds are trending for the republican takeover. but right now there's 55 democrats effectively and 45 republicans and they have pick up succeeds to pick up the majority. there are three states in which there are democratic incumbents that are not running against him, which are really republican state and montana and south dakota and west virginia.

then there's a bunch of states where there are democratic incumbents in close battles starting way out west, alaska, colorado, iowa. arkansas, north carolina, louisiana. new hampshire. [laughter] and, you know, i have to find a new partner. [laughter] and so you have about seven or eight states that seem to be trending republican. and there's one interesting thing. one republican incumbent might be in trouble, interestingly, mitch mcconnell, the majority leader, but i would day right now know. surprisingly and this is why no one can really predict, pat robinson looks like he's in some

difficulty. and so who knows. but if you put it all together it looks like this or the other thing you'll notice is that i probably spend too much time reading this. [laughter] as well i have to do now. [laughter] as my wife says from the pain of personal experience living with me, politics is an incurable disease. so there is an interesting factor that you see in some of the polling which is the commitment to vote is much higher among republicans than democrats so far. so if you're asked to do intend to vote and how strongly the appeal is, it's much higher among republicans. so if that turnout holds, that will probably favor a republican majority. >> it means that harry reid is the minority leader in the we take all of those 400 bills and

put them on the president's desk. and then we say why didn't you a sign that bill on border security, why didn't you do that with the visa bill that we are talking about with immigration. why didn't you approve the keystone pipeline and he has to answer and respond instead of blaming other people. we have 400 bills that he has held up. and it means that we have the ability to get things done and go back to regular order. going through the committee process by the appropriations process, getting back to allowing people and actually get it heard, we only brought up seven amendments this year from republicans and every one of them failed. they're good people with good ideas and part of the problem is when they filed the bill, we are just going to change the entire structure of the economy, we're going to do it in an hour, he moves to a closure and he doesn't allow any amendments and

then he forces us to say, well, we're not going to do it if we don't get any amendments. so let's talk about energy, we have some great ideas, updating this and there so many things we could do. but he didn't do it like you did with the insider-trading. when he did the crown funding bill and the veterans bill and when they allow us to go through the process. everyone is part of the process and it passes. >> having sort of a hopeful scenario of what might happen if the senate goes republican and elizabeth got married for the

seven-time, i believe they said. it's what they said is hope over experience. [laughter] and so i will now give you the political version of that. and so washington is not as divided along political lines as they are today. when congress is controlled by one party and the president is of another party, they actually end up negotiating their agreement. and they negotiated agreements with reagan and o'neill. so that is the whole thing. and so the president is now going to be in the last few

years, he's got to be thinking about what markup you will be able to make, some of them negotiating compromise agreements with the republicans and hopefully the republicans in turn will be willing to compromise and meet him somewhere in the middle. >> the next two years will be pretty interesting. >> may be better than what we think. internal optimist, glass half-full. okay, that leads to the next question, which two candidates would you like to see run for president in 2016 and why. [laughter] >> i really think it's too early. there's so much happening right now and i believe that the political comments. but i believe it's too early because people are so focused in 2014 and people really don't

care about 2016. they need to deal with the issues right now and that is where my intentions are at. >> it's too early to say but i guess you have to say that if hillary clinton runs she's going to get the democratic nomination. and if she doesn't, you will have both parties and it will be interesting for the nomination of the republican party and there will be a lot of candidates. and so in a presidential primary, actually the one time when our parties nationally defined themselves, we have platforms and think they don't mean a heck of a lot. so i'm sorry to say that. but the reality is when the

voters come out in the primaries they decide what kind of primary they want to have in the challenge for the republicans will be to nominate somebody who is seen as a problem solver and not an extremist, if you will. and they said somebody can get the support of moderate voters. to me one of the most stunning numbers in the so-called exit polls after the last presidential election was the president obama defeated self-described moderates and mostly will don't think he's a moderate. but i think that what happened among them is that if you look with this compared to the republican romney, he generally is a moderate but the perception

is part of this and it's going to be a fascinating couple of years and if hillary doesn't run, they exact same thing will occur when there's a real battle for what the party stands for. and so before we wrap it up, we are almost out of time, i wanted to ask each of you since you've had some illustrious positions in your career. i want to know what you would consider about the highlight of your professional careers so far. >> at has had two daughters get married in the last five weeks. >> that was an expensive proposition and it's one of the

hardest professions to make sure you can find that balance between being a husband and wife and loving and caring for each other and then trying to give kids good morals and beliefs. and giving them enough room to grow and so it was an honor and i look forward to having the honor again. >> perfect. >> my wife is definitely going to watch c-span. [laughter] to i love you, honey and incidentally you have the really great highlight coming until i

feel privileged, i was in the elective office for 40 years. and what an honor. and i'm proud of a lot of things i was able to do, all of them across party lines. and i was in a position purse with fred thompson and there was susan collins to really be at the center of adapting so much legislation was aimed at protecting us on 9/11. and so the greatest personal thing of my life, you know, and

they have the honor to be the first jewish american to run for national office and no matter if it's for against me, which is really what america is all about and god bless america. [applause] >> you know, only by e-mail occasionally and we did invent

the internet. but i have to say this, just to be fair. [laughter] the trace of a vice presidential running mate is probably the most unilateral exercise of power in american politics and the president gets to choose who he wants and so single-handedly you might say they took the risk and i will tell you a story and i'm telling too many stories. but you will get a kick out of it. so he said that i have to tell you that i decided two or three weeks ago i wanted you to be my running mate. does being responsible had to ask people, a small number of people. is america ready for a jewish

person is a vice president. and he said that i have some christian friends and he said that because i know there are so many million christians in america than jews, i was able to choose you. [laughter] [laughter] [applause] >> thank you very much, gentlemen. we certainly appreciate both of you being here. [applause] [applause] >> thank you so much. [applause] >> coming up on c-span2, the

arizona gubernatorial debate between doug ducey, fred duval, barry hess and john mealer. and then governor bobby general lays out his plans. and later, scott brown discusses foreign policy in the midterm elections. >> on the next "washington journal", this president talks about his organization's goal of electing fiscally conservative candidates in congress. then we will talk about the big 10 college to college tour. plus your e-mails and phone calls and tweets. "washington journal" is live every morning on c-span.

>> the center for strategic and international buddies hosted a discussion tuesday on hispanic voters and the possible impact of u.s. foreign policy in latin america on their vote. we will bring that of nt live starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. and that is also live on c-span. >> on c-span, live coverage of the west virginia debate between u.s. representative and secretary of state. also at 7:00 p.m. on c-span2, live coverage of the virginia and u.s. senate debate between artwork and ed gillespie.

plus, the live governors debate >> in at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, the north carolina u.s. senate debate with kay hagan and the state speaker of the house, tom tillis on wednesday night at 7:00 o'clock, the pennsylvania governors debate between tom corbett and tall. and 7:30 p.m. on c-span, coverage of the illinois u.s. house debate of the 17th district between u.s. representative democrat and republican. later at 9:00 o'clock, live coverage of illinois debate. friday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern, the wisconsin governors debate between scott walker and mary burns.

live coverage of the iowa senate debate with congressman democrat bruce braley and joni ernst. and finally at 8:00 p.m. eastern, the michigan governors debate between rick snyder and mark schneider. more than 100 debates for the control of congress. >> for candidates met in phoenix to debate education and economic issues. fred duval and doug ducey, barry hess, and john mealer are looking to replace jan brewer who was terminated. this is one hour. ♪ ♪ >> moderator: evening, and welcome to the special vote.

i am ted simon, tonight, the debate is sponsored by clear elections. this is not a formal exercise that an open exchange of ideas and an opportunity for give-and-take between candidates for the state's top office. as such, interjections and ruptured interruptions are allowed and we will do our best to see that that happens. four candidates are competing for the arizona chief executive, they are in alphabetical order, doug ducey, fred duval, libertarian barry hess, and american elect candidate john mealer, also a business canada. each candidate will have one minute for opening and closing statements. so let's start with fred duval. duval: i love arizona, my family

raised her children are. and we love this place. i'm running for governor because we are worried that arizona is headed in the wrong direction and our children are losing out to deep cuts and education which has been so severe. we are losing opportunities. let me make a clear statement. i will stop the cuts to public education. i will use a veto if necessary, but no more cuts. not another dollar, not another penny. the supreme court has recently made a decision that the voters instructed the legislature to invest in our children's schools. i believe that we should enforce this decision immediately reinvest in our children's schools. doug and others disagree with us and this and i think the most important thing we can do to grow our economy and turn it around is to invest in our children and the opportunity to the future. >> thank you very much. for the next opening statement,

we turn to john mealer fred duval i am john mealer, i am an independent constitutionalist and i agree with fred about the education needing to be in repairer. budget cuts are one way and i don't believe in that. we need to increase revenue as we have the industrial connections to do so. i believe that arizona needs to run arizona. and as i said, i am an independent and i would like to serve in the government. >> next we turn to doug ducey. ducey: my wife angela and i have been married 24 years this october and we have three sons, jack, joe, and sam.

i'm running on real work experience at cold stone creamery. a chief executive officer in your current state treasurer. and i have a clear agenda as your next governor. and i want to kickstart the economy and turn in into it for filling career. i want to restore the educational system to the level of excellence that we expect to better serve teachers and students and parents. and i want to take charge of our state. i want to be an independent voice for the state of arizona and i'm proud to announce that i have been endorsed by a democratic state legislator and i can tell a lot about how someone will govern how the campaign. >> moderator: final opening

statement now we turn to barry hess. hess: some say they know how to educate your children and control your personal life better than you can. and he's going to tell you that he knows how to spend your money and educate your children and i do not agree that we have to continue funding and excessively bloated education program and we are not getting our money's worth and more money is not the answer, otherwise washington dc will spend twice the money that we do and wouldn't be elbowing us out of last place in the state. i think that you're going to see a lot of differences between us but mine is always going to be focused on protecting your. that is why want to be your

governor. >> moderator: how are you going to balance the budget provided the court said you have to pay for it. how are you going to pay for it? >> the supreme court has ruled and they said that the voters were white clear in their intent that they needed to pay back this money. the first place is the rainy day fund which has been on the backs of cuts from the schools. so we need to use this to begin the process of this commitment and then we need to go through a variety of other steps to make sure that we can make state government more efficient. and this establishes our priorities. the absolute priority is no more cuts. and we see record numbers of teachers states and these are all a result of balancing the budget and that has to stop.

>> moderator: how are we going to pay for that? >> we want to make sure that we are spending the money in the proper place and i want to see our dollars and k-12 education in the teachers in the classrooms and i want to fund what works and i want us to focus on literacy that can make the biggest efforts in the state of arizona this includes $4 million balancing the budget. and we are best serving art children and parents and teachers of arizona. >> that money has to be accountable somehow. how are you going to balance the budget? >> we have to look at everything that is going on in the budget. i have talked to state agencies and i am a business person. i want to go through the budget line by line and dollar by dollar and we also have 27% of

the state's workforce outside of education but is eligible for retirement in the next four years. so you don't have to let one person go but through discipline hiring, you can really find savings and efficiencies and that's what i will do as governor. >> all right, john. every year after that, we are not talking about 1.6 the land. so how are you going to balance the budget? >> i believe that i detail how we can take the states trust funds and break it down with some of the industries that want to move into the state. industries that have been knocking on our door release 25 years and have been involved to bring them into the state and we need to bring the men and allow this property to be taxed. >> what do you think? >> i think if we have a surplus we can display pay it off now.

but actually my plan calls for using the rainy day fund and reclaiming some of the lands that the fed has taken from us and selling it for the purpose of education like it's supposed to be. but most importantly what i will be striving for it is asking the voters to repeal the mandatory expenditures because it's not about money and we party scene now. and i'd like to see it at about 20% in the first is the notion that we can capture hundreds of millions of dollars in reorganization. and we lost child protective services in the process. sometimes we don't want to see those kinds of losses of accountability. plus the notions that they

become open is a foolish risk. are we not going to replace officers on the board two are we not going to replace children and welfare services when people retire? work ructions officers? that's a very dangerous idea. >> putting public safety first, 80 separate agencies representing over a billion dollars in annual spending and anyone who doesn't think that government can't tighten its belt of it and we can't do better with these bureaucracies, we have to review everything that we are looking at and look at the core functions. i talk about our education system, kickstarting the economy, moving arizona in the right direction. ..

you have to be honest about the choices and doug is proposing we take income taxes zero. it's 40% of the state budget. >> medicaid is voter protected so if you want to seek a zero income tax you will have to cut k-12 education.