christopher conover to provide that oversight and congress is not doing its job by making sure they provide that oversight by doing a budget and 12 appropriations bills so we have to go line by line and address the issues that are not good use of taxpayers' money and give it back to the taxpayers and get

our budget house in order. >> moderator: ron barber, same question to you, is there something specific in the budget you would like to see hold out to save money and how much could you save? barber: let me preface this by saying the approach congress took in 2011 to reduce the deficit was the wrong approach. it is called sequestration and made across-the-board cut on every federal program. it hurt our military, our veterans, research and development, it heard all kinds of programs including education. i am not in favor of sequestration. i said that from the beginning and i hope we get rid of it. i am in favor of kicking and annual g shows steady that pointed out $90 billion in programs that could be reduced, he eliminated or taken out of the budget and that is the study we ought to have. i sponsored a bill that and out of our bipartisan working committee working group that would do that. every year when that report comes out every once this is

terrible, the budget is out of control but they don't do anything with the january report. our bill would require every committee of jurisdiction to give an up or down vote on budget reduction items. that is a big way to start and what i would do. >> moderator: this next question is from one of our viewers or listeners to negative the at twitter using the hash tag see the 2, question. they say both candidates, tv advertising is full of clippings about the other. at an end of those as the candidates a approve this message. how can voters' trust anything either of you say in these ads? mr. barbour, you have the first shot at this. barber: the way voters to understand the truth about ads is a couple things. you need to really dig in and find out what was said or done by the candidate as opposed to what they say in an ad. i believe everything we have said in the ads pmi opponent have been factual base. we do a fact check before we put it out, there are numerous

citations that support what we save. we won't put out misinformation. my opponent is given to false information. she put out an ad this week that accused the of not being at a hearing on isis when i was present. that is the kind of false and misleading information people need to worry about so it is important for us to know what a candidate stands for and not to accept just what they say. what they stand for goes back to the roots of what they said in my opponent's case in 2012 which was running vigorously to the right to make sure she got her party's nomination and now she wants to convince you she is moderate. i don't buy it and i don't think the voters will. >> moderator: how can people believe what the sea and the edge? mcsally: this is what is wrong with washington. we have an incumbent sitting congressman who is spending most of his campaign, him and his allies and most of his debate instead of talking about his record actually attacking me

with misleading facts with misleading and untruthful at tax. everything they're doing is trying to instill fear in the voters, scared the seniors, scared the middle-class, scare women and trying to move people to keep his job based on any motion of fear. that is what is wrong with politics these days. i am running my ads talking about what i bring to the table as someone who is a veteran, who has flown in combat, deployed six times to combat zones, has shown leadership even when things are difficult to get done and i am offering an option to high gear somebody noon because washington is broken and ron barber is part of the problem. we can change washington by king and who we send to washington so i ask the you did the ads of our current congressman and his allies that are based on misleading, lies and fear instead of his own record. >> moderator: let's touch on something you just touched on, you mentioned also the a 10, the

fight to keep the funding for the a 10. considering this is one of the biggest economic drivers in our community, it is this an economics and jobs the shoe. mcsally: i knew it was going to be cut, congressman ron barber is on the record last year saying there is no threat to the head can. since then he has been doing a lot of activity but has not been able to find the funding. please do your research. right now is only funded for 65 more days. i commanded the only a 10 operational squadron, i have 325 combat hours in iraq and

afghanistan. i know firsthand the national security treasures that this is. when men and women on the ground, under fire, it is an important economic driver in our community, $1.6 billion and we have some any jobs that count on it. we need someone in d.c. will make the argument the national security treasurer and i know this firsthand. i don't need staff to rely on to have the credibility. >> moderator: same question for ron barber but with one follow-up. did you say it that? barber: the question that was posed to me once is there a along term life towards d m in the a 10 and my answer was yes. there will not be around for a while, they will be around and the reason why is the air force base has been serving this community as a military installation for decades. we have the best flying whether of anywhere in the country,

access to the goldwater range, a relationship -- i grew up on that base. i know the value but let me talk about the a 10. it is only found another 65 days. that is actually if you just assume we are not going to open the government after aziz number eleventh. >> some of the programs coming up this week on tbs. wednesday, up the thing for the scene. barber: we have never gone home without supporting a military establishment. eddie a 10 is a vital national accused security asset and i will continue to fight as long as i am here to make sure we never lose the a can in this community. >> moderator: another question from one of our viewers, one of our energy policies. what will each candidate do to shift energy policy towards renewable energy and away from fossil fuels?

scheme viet twitter, and you go first on that. barber: great question from someone who knows of value of renewable energy. solar energy is in the center of most energy available anywhere in the country and we have capitalized on that. when i worked for congresswomen differed that was the many she promoted. since she left office i continue that practice. we hold phone 101s of people can know about solar. we have created a lot of jobs in arizona, 10,000 since the effort started a few years ago. we have to have a renewable energy policy but also have to have an all of the above policy because we need energy independence and we can't move away from the energy sources we have an rely totally on solar or other renewable energy. we have to have a bridge and

that bridge is being built with solar energy, wind and geothermal. we will get there. it will take a while but we have to have other sources as well. >> moderator: same question to you regarding renewable energy and fossil fuel. mcsally: i do believe in a true all of the above energy policy so that includes absolutely capitalizing and continuing to develop renewable energies but it also means getting access to the energy we have that has recently been discovered in north america. we could be on our way to energy independence. i support the keystone pipeline. i support getting access to the land gas reserves the we have a way that brings good stewardship and i do not support the new rules that would tell arizona to reduce carbon emissions by a 52%. that is going to shut down some of our power plants in southern arizona if we go in that direction. this will raise costs, we will lose jobs and that is an absolute wreck was ruled by a

federal agencies that had oversight provided to them by congress right now. we need a real all of the above strategy, the resources that we have, allows us to be independent, not relying on the middle east and continuing to develop renewable energys. >> moderator: for those of you just tuning in this is a candidates forum for the candidate in arizona's congressional district 2. we are going to stay with your questions here that came to us via twitter about the situation with isis in the middle east. do you support president obama's strategy for combating isis? mcsally: president obama has failed and democrats, independentss and republicans can agree we watched this threat grow and walk away from iraq after all the blood my fellow men and women in uniform sent there. we met syria develop into a failed state and obama's leader should from behind is an oxymoron. he has failed to see this threat

coming. is now a threat that is more dangerous than al qaeda on 9/11. i have two master's degrees, and led targeting operations for the continent of africa in my last job as a colonel. i understand the threat of terrorism and we ought to be using all elements of national power to deal with it. he has been late to the game when this threat is serious and the military used has been late and not enough. we need to use our diplomatic, economic, informational and cyber instruments of power but he is not being taken seriously. the best thing we can do is select someone to congress with a background to provide oversight. that is what i bring because ron barber has no background on this. >> moderator: you do not agree with the president's current strategy. mcsally: he is late to the game ended is not enough. >> moderator: same thing to you, do you agree with the president's strategy on isis? barber: been on the committee

since i joined congress in june of 2012 had the opportunity to meet with the various chiefs of staff of the army, air force, navy and marines and i know they have serious concerns about how we should proceed. before we left congress to come home for this election season, we voted and are was one of the people who voted for it, a bill that would ensure that we take the fight to isis. this is a new name evil. what isis has done, the capabilities that accumulated with land and money and command structure and 30,000 combat season army they are to be taken very seriously and for me it is taking the fight to them and we have done it through the air, drones and tomahawk missiles manufactured in tucson, we need to do everything we can to dismantle and destroy this evil force in the world and protect the homeland from any incursion they might bring to us by the

people to come back here. >> moderator: you agree or disagree with the president's current strategy? barber: i think the president was late to the table quite frankly. i think we saw this building and is director of national intelligence just the other day said we didn't see it coming. we should have seen it coming and that is why we have to have vigilance, that is why the committee had serious hearings questioning how we got to this point but absolutely we have to support what we are doing today. the commander in chief came to us and asked our support, when we are at war as we are with isis congress should come together as it did in a bipartisan way to support the commander-in-chief. is it enough? time will tell. i am concerned about the progress isis is making, we need to monitor this and we have the president and the department of defense on a short leash saying you have to come back and tell us your progress before we do anything else.

>> moderator: you disagree with the president's strategy. do we need. on the ground or is there a different way? mcsally: this is a false discussion about. on the ground versus boots in the. we have. on the ground. we have our troops there, they are providing advisory roles, we have got to be able to do what it takes to address this threat, this is a false argument and the president talking about what he is not going to do is never smart when talking to the enemy. we have the kurds there and they have capable fighting force. we could provide air power, we likely need to have joined terminal attacked controllers and we work in the a tend to make sure they are identifying the target, make sure we have collateral damage assessments and going after what needs to be done so we have got to address that in a way that allows them to take back their territory but similar to what we did after 9/11 in afghanistan and part of the -- we dropped in special

forces embedded with the no. alliance and they called in air strikes and that the indigenous forces address the issue so it is a false discussion about boots on the air or boot on the ground and the commander in chief should not talk about that in front of our enemies. >> moderator: do we want boots on the ground? barber: you have to work hard to convince me we should send our men and women back into combat in the middle east. we have lost thousands of young american lives, we spent billions of dollars trying to help people in iraq and afghanistan. i want to see our troops come home so i believe we have to continue the strategy that is in place and monitor this very closely. the president and the department of defense need to end required by the law we passed before we left to report regularly on progress. it is a multilevel strategy.

trying to dismantle the infrastructure and command structure and weapons and so forth that isis has. it is about keeping them from making progress in iraq and syria. we have other factors, we need to stop the flow of money to isis. they are making by some accounts $5 million a day by shipping oil through turkey. we have to stop it, we have to disrupt that, go on social me as we are to convince young americans and europeans they shouldn't go there. there is a lot to be done. and stay with the plan. >> moderator: we are getting a lot of questions on social media about this next subject, that is the border. from where we're sitting right now only 70 miles away. how do you define a secure border? please be specific including measurable outcomes to define what success is and the timetable for meetings that definition you have come up with.

ron barber, you are first on this one. >> the homeland security committee, to get measurements and to get progress and secure the border. the people represent in cochise county between douglas and new mexico state line are at the mercy of the cartel everyday. it has to stop. we got to do it by changing the border security strategy and getting border patrol's closer to the border, getting close to to the border, 51 miles back, that is one thing that has to change but the border security act which i co-sponsored says to the department of homeland security, you must within a certain time come back with a specific strategy and measurement for progress. one of the problems is everyone has a different definition of border security, we need a credible universal definition and the only way to do that is by talking to the people who live on the border, who experience these issues every day and that is what my amendment to the bill did, you

cannot have a strategy, you cannot have measurements without engage in the ranks on the border. >> moderator: what is a measurable success you would like to see that would make the border defined as secure? >> the bill we passed out unanimously says we need to get operational control of the border. we need 90% of control of the border and need to make sure we have 100% in high-risk areas. the district i represent is a high risk cheri and that is where we have to direct our attention. anyplace we haven't essentially reduce illegal immigration and the drug cartels coming through. 40% of drugs seized on the border are sees in the tucson sector which includes my district, that is totally unacceptable and we need to fix it and our bill moves in that direction. the problem with the department of homeland security is it has never come up credible measurements which are builders forced to do so. >> moderator: same question to you, define a secure border but give us some specifics,

measurable points. mcsally: in a debate two years ago, ron barber said he was leading the effort to secure the border since 2006. those i talked to in cochise county would say he is failing at the job and you may have seen those commercials arrangers previously supported gabrielle giffords, they're tired of the talks and wants something done so they're getting behind me. the border is not secure and this is a public safety issue and national-security issue and those ranchers are making difficult life-and-death decisions to keep their families safe but we have to continue, we needed different strategy. the border patrol is not at the border. we need to use intelligence operations with the assets we have, to monitor that activity with the manpower at the border. in d.c. 90% secure.

what does that mean? how do you know what the denominator is. we know and operational assessment by the commander, we need to rely on the local commanders and border residents, that will help us to render that. >> moderator: what about border security. you called for better border security to top human trafficking and drug smuggling and the violence of both of those issues. what your positions don't seem to address is u.s. demand for drugs and cheap labor. what would you do about that demand? mcsally: addressing the root cause of the issue aside from the cartel is legal immigration system and our recess system is totally broken. we have people in border communities like douglas who want to come over and work at the end of the day, and there is no easy way to do that.

two nights ago, teaching 25 years giving out ph.d.s in science and technology in their early five u.s. citizens who got no phds, everyone else is a forerunner. we sent them back to compete against us in other countries so we need an immigration system a visa system that welcomes those who want to work and help our economic growth at all ends of the spectrum are related to skills and trade and we address the root causes of why we are in the situation we are. we keep wanting to have been engageds in 7 addressing the causes so that is what leadership will do. >> moderator: same question. barber: you are right that there is the demand. otherwise there wouldn't be the delivery of both drugs and people who come to work. we paid under the counter. the immigration bill, board of security and immigration bill which passed the senate in a bipartisan vote sponsored by senator mccain is one that i can support. i would like to see a different

aspect that we passed out of our committee but i would take that bill and run it to the floor of the house. it hand-picked the opponent to come to the floor to be discussed. we need a temporary worker programs so people can come safely and legally and go home. i believe we need a dream act for young people who came here through no fault of their own could no to college and a military. my opponent says absolutely not. we need 11 million people out of the shadows so they can be paid legal above-ground and make sure we go through a supreme effort to that some before they go to any legal status. that will make our budget better because people would pay taxes. that is what i support. my opponent has called the mccain lake bill the obamacare of immigration. that is mocking our two senior senators. >> moderator: what about the

demand? barber: you have to crack down on employers. employers who hire illegal at breaking the law like the people who go to work for them and we need more law-enforcement, more agents going after people breaking the law and the mccain flake bill would do just that. my opponent says she won't support it but i think it is a good path forward. only her leadership will bring it to the floor of the house. i believe it would pass with strong bipartisan vote. >> moderator: let me change topics again. we go to medicare now. a big piece of the budget, we talked earlier about the ryan budget and what it would do regarding medicare. that was your position as we talked about has been reported in 2012 but let's talk about it now as you clarified earlier. how do you reduce medicare spending? mcsally: back to the border, he has gone over his time multiple

times the bipartisan bill that came to the house before they went on recess related to the border so when push comes to shove ron barber talks a good game about the border but when nancy pelosi tells him to line up he says yes ma'am and voted against it. that is what is wrong in washington d.c. people who say one thing when they are here but vote for something else when their party tells them to line up. medicare, never supported medicare voucher system and also never supported robbing medicare by $716 billion in order to pay for obamacare. in this debate two years ago you remember when i called ron barber on this he double down and said those aren't cuts to medicare, those are overappearance supporting them wholeheartedly, he now knows he has a problem with seniors and that is why he is on the attack. i support an initiative that brings the cost of health care downs of medicare and health care is affordable for us and our country and our seniors and i will do that when i get to congress. >> moderator: let me come to you

on this, ron barber. she just said you are going to cut medicare, you double down on it. can you defend that? how do you reduce medicare spending while keeping the system sustainable? barber: the falsehood my opponent put out one more time as she had since she ran her at from the beginning of this race has to be dealt with. independent fact check organizations have looked at that chart and found it absolutely false yet she continues to repeat it over and over again. what she did support what the $716 billion cut in medicare benefits in the paul ryan budget. she can't have it both ways. as far as what we need to do to reduce medicare costs we need to deal with fraud and abuse. we have millions of dollars, billions of dollars going out the door every single day because providers are building fraudulently. we need to crack down on them as we did in florida not long ago, we brought several indictments

against providers who were building $500,000 fraudulently. that is one way to do it but we also need to make sure we bend the curve of health care costs and that is what i believe is going on. if you look at the data clearly health care costs are coming down. they will grow -- ruined this country if we don't bring it down. >> moderator: a little different topic within health care, the key issue in health care is veterans and the shortage of resources including physicians for veterans because congress supplies resources by way of appropriation. ids your responsibility and what would you do to make sure the va medical system has more resources? you get to answer this first. barber: we have taken action and need to monitor the implementation of the veterans reform act that was passed not unanimously but close to unanimously by the house with confidence bills in the senate.

and a lot of experience in managing large organizations. to make it more receptive than responsive to our veterans. if he were alive today he would be as outraged as anybody and i am too at what we discovered in the phoenix system. absolute corruption. and on a paper waiting list to get bonuses. we dealt with that in the bill we talked about and we have given $10 billion to contract out side the system so veterans who live in rural areas that i represent will get access to medical care and health care in their community. that is what we are doing, not just talking the action. >> moderator: same question about veterans' health care. what can we do? mcsally: those who raise their right hand and served, 85,000 others in the community we have

a covenant with them. they will put their lives on the line to protect us, we will make sure we take care of them. what happened is absolute dereliction of duty. the arizona v a health system you get great care from the providers there but is cumbersome and challenge in the system is one by senior executives to be governing up and struggling. and systemic problems for six years. people who complain about problems and know about them but leaders are people who get things done. we need to make sure we have more veterans in congress to fight for our veterans, we have 20% so i am going to go to congress and make sure veterans get the care they preserve.

>> moderator: let's stay with you changing topics as we begin to wind this up. you were recently endorsed by the nra, received an a rating. what if any limits should there be on gun ownership? mcsally: hyannis second amendment supporter. i shot a 30 mm in combat and we can all agree we want to minimize and make sure gun violence is addressed in our communities and we have different ways to talk about that but the way this is happening in this campaign has just been disgraceful. there were ads run by your allies that were considered vile and nasty by the arizona republic. we repeatedly asked for you to stand up against them and you wouldn't do it. they finally took the at down because it was so horrendous. we have an opportunity to denounce that at and apologize. do you believe that ad was

wrong? barber: when my time comes i will respond. mcsally: please respond now. >> moderator: we have three seconds left. let me turn the question to you. what do you think of that ad and where you stand on ownership of guns and limits? barber: want to be clear what this question is because it is important to me as a survivor as a mass shooting, and the second amendment, and what happened to you was horrific, should happen to know one. i have two daughters, three granddaughters. i want to make sure -- let me finish. i want to make sure they are protected and make sure you are protected and everyone is protected. ad ad was not by a run by me and i won't talk about an ad that i didn't sponsor but you talk about allies, that was run by someone who is highly regarded in this community for work to

prevent and violence, gabrielle giffords. but that aside what my opponent said is she accepts the notion we should have misdemeanor stockers prohibited from having a gun. .. taking it away and honestly

congress, we chipped away at the check and balance system that this country was founded on. congress as an absolute responsibility to respond to the immigration crisis in our country. the border security crisis. every crisis we face congress has to have a hands on it and the active involved with the. i do not believe the president should act alone. he should come to congress and congress should step up its responsibilities. john boehner needs to bring the bill to the floor so we can vote on it. they would pass in a heartbeat. that's how it should be done. what we call regular order on an important issue like this as a decision has to be made. >> moderator: mr. smick celica same question. mcsally: people are frustrated with what's going on in washington right now. it is so dysfunctional. the president of both parties are to blame. i totally disagree with to present a report on executive order and things that are clearly congress is responsibly. congress is failing to address

these issues and the president is failing to lead. you were in congress and you've been there for almost three years. people are very frustrated with the dysfunction going on. leaders are people will go there and make things happen instead of sitting back and complain what delusions going to do, actually influenced with the leadership is going to do, make things happen, get things done, do the right thing answer the people of southern arizona as a servant leader. that's what we need right now. we need to send people to congress are going to get things done. >> moderator: thank you so much. we have reached the end of time for our questions the queen of the classics statements which are 90 seconds. ms. mcsally, you're the first closing statements. mcsally: thank you. washington is broken. we can all agree on that. we change washington by changing who we send washington. i would ask those who are doing

tonight to tune out the slick line attack ads and take a fresh look at your offers. take a fresh look at me, my background, experience and what i've done to make a difference. take a hard look at mr. barber's record. are we better off than three years ago? are most people the answer is no. it's time for a change. we talked about issues about that character matters and even those outside groups, all you needed to do was say i thought they were wrong. the silence is consent. the biggest question is not just about issues but you sound like you want to get things done, but how twitter your not go to d.c. to become like the rest of them and buckle to the pressure? a lot of candidates said i promise i won't do that. i've shown that with my life. when i was deployed on my first of six combat tours of the middle east, five in the middle east at one in afghanistan, i walked by the duty test and i saw a young photo of a muslim

woman. i starte started asked questioni forgot how to change it. for six years i have fought on behalf of them. they ordered me over to saudi, told me to sit i in the backseat of car, put a burqa on and take me up on charges. i fought for 30 months to get a change one last time and on my way out of that -- >> moderator: thank you so much. we are out of time. ron barber from the of 90 seconds for your close. barber: thank you, chris, and arizona public media for having us here tonight. i went to congress in 2012, and i said i would be an independent voice. i would reflect the types of southern arizona. i would take my almost lifelong residents here, and my wife being border, my children, grandchildren here and our families being here, the deep roots we would have and i would take it understanding of this district to congress and viavoice and that's what i believe i've done over the last two and half years. i be honored to go back and do

it again for another two years. the important thing here is trust. do you know the candidates are, what they really represent? i believe that people know who i am. i have lived here a long time. i've worked with a lot of people and it different ways. people no ron barber, and the mythology, the lies, and the misrepresentation my opponent throws the concluding sing i wasn't present at the meeting, at a hearing on isis when it was, i have a document i would like to share with my opponent before we did tonight. it's the attendance sheet for the hearing in homeland security that she says i wasn't present. clearly i was. this is the kind of misinformation, misrepresentation that my opponent has been engaged in. she's trying to tell us she doesn't let her think she believes in 2012 the i think the voters are smarter than that. >> moderator: i have to cut you off. we are out of time.

thank you ronde barber, martha mcsally, both the your coming. and for those of you tuning in, thank you for tuning in tonight. that concludes your vote 2014 candidate forum for the arizona second congressional district. i am christopher conover. have a good evening. ♪ ♪ >> monday night at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span will have live coverage of the debate between the kentucky senate candidates. >> after 30 years who is doing better? mr. chancellor himself six paper he says, enjoyed over $200,000 with a special interest perks and travel and raisins of over $70 million, and here at home

incomes are down 9%, kentucky has fallen to 44th in jobs lost over or did 3000 manufacturing jobs. sure seems mitch has washington working for him and not us. >> i mitch mcconnell and i approved this message. >> alison grimes as this election is not about her support for barack obama and his failed policies. >> i'm not barack obama. >> but obama himself said a vote for allison is a vote for his policies. >> i'm not on the ballot this fall but make no mistake, these policies are on the ballot. every single one of them. >> obama needs crimes. and kentucky need to mitch mcconnell. >> i'm alison lundergan grimes and i approved this message. >> first was our mitch mcconnell skipped hundreds of committing beatings. where was he? he didn't show up to vote on troop funding, the farm bill and

the va. he found time for lobbyist fundraiser and was on two tv shows. he toasted the chinese vice president for china's great achievements. and the rest of the time he created gridlock. 30 years is long enough. >> immediate caller adds falls and misleading but she keeps attacking. now on attendance. crimes must not understand that as a senate leader mitch doesn't just serve on committees. he can appoint committee members, making sure kentucky's voice is heard. it's a power crimes won't have. asked for his attendance, 99%. alison grimes, no experiencing false and misleading attacks. >> i mitch mcconnell and i approved this message. >> tonight coverage of campaigns from around the country including the wisconsin governors debate between scott walker and his democratic challenger. live coverage at 8 p.m. eastern

on c-span. >> the house homeland security committee will hold a field hearing today in texas about the states response to the ebola virus. officials will testify before the committee in the dallas-fort worth area about thomas duncan, a liberian national who died and was the first person diagnosed with a bold in the united states. live coverage 1 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> c-span 2050 studentcam competition is underway. this nationwide competition for middle and high school students will award 150 prizes totaling $100,000. create a five to seven minute document on the topic the three branches and you. videos need to include c-span program, show varying points of view and must be submitted by

january 20, 2015. go to studentcam.org for more information. grab a camera and get started today. >> the candidates for maryland governor spent tuesday at wjz-tv studios in baltimore for the first governors debate. lieutenant governor anthony brown and larry hogan face off on issues ranging from taxes, education and department. "the cook political report" list this report as leans democratic. it's about an hour. ♪ >> this is wjz-tv. baltimore. >> direct from television know, the candidates for governor debate now from inside the wjz studios. here's vic carter. >> moderator: good evening, everyone and welcome. over the next hour we will hear from both candidates running for governor of maryland. tonight's debate sponsored by wjz-tv and the "baltimore sun." we want to thank the candidates for being with us. the democratic candidate lieutenant governor anthony

brown. and the republican candidate mr. larry hogan. each candidate will have up to one minute 30 seconds to make an opening statement then we will move on to the issues. i'm joined by "baltimore sun" editorial page editor andy green. we will establish a topic and ask one of the candidates a question. each of them will then get up to one minute 45 seconds to present his views. the first candidate to answer within the given one minute for rebuttal. at the end of the debate each candidate will be given one minute for closing statements. we want to thank the many wjz viewers have e-mailed us the questions for the candidates over the past week. we read them all and included many in tonight's topics. a coin toss before the broadcast determined that lieutenant governor anthony brown will begin first with opening statements. mr. brown. brown: thank you. i want to thank the sponsors,

the wjz and the "baltimore sun." want to thank our audience here in the studio that are watching this broadcast. look, maryland is a great state and together we've accomplished a great deal in the last several years. we have built the best in the nation public schools. we lead the nation in college affordability. we have driven crime debt and we are one of six states have come to the great recession with a aaa bond rating. let's be clear, this election is not about the past. this election is about the future and what's next for maryland. i spent 30 years in the army. i had the opportunity to lead soldiers, trained them, to care for soldiers and found them to send them on missions and often in very unforgiving environments given them the leadership, training, resources they could complete their mission, come on seven to the families and the nation we all love. i had the privilege of serving with patriotic men and women on campaigns and service to our country. i am on a different mission. the fight is different but it's just as important to maryland families.

this november voters are going to decide, they'll make a choice, wake up every morning fighting for working families and middle-class life and that's the vision we share with so many marylanders. when we wake up favoring a small group of the largest wealthiest corporations who need help the least at the expense of the middle class. we will wake up every day with you, maryland, to fight for working families and middle-class values. hogan: thank you very much, mr. brown. another republican candidate larry hogan. hogan: well, first i'd like to thank wjz and the "baltimore sun" for giving us this opportunity. i'd like to thank all of you at home for caring enough to take the time to watch. i'm not a professional politician but i'm just a small businessman and a lifelong marylander who loves this state. i'm running for governor because i'm fed up with politics as

usual in annapolis and because i believe our state is way off track and heading in the wrong direction. 40 consecutive tax hikes have taken an additional $10 billion out of the pockets of struggling maryland families and small businesses. it's crushed our economy. we have lost 8000 small businesses. unemployment has doubled. 200,000 maryland are out of work. we're third in the nation in foreclosures. we've had zero economic growth and our state economy ranked 49th out of 50 states. we've had the largest mass exodus of taxpayers fleeing our state of any state in the mid atlantic region and one of the worst in the nation. sadly nearly half of all marylanders want to leave the state. that is simply unacceptable. the people of maryland deserve better. that's what i am running for governor and that's why i need your help and your vote so we can turn this economy around and bring real change to annapolis. >> moderator: let's get right to question. mr. brown, seems the consensus of people we've heard from that taxes in maryland are simply too

high. for example, suzy asked if you were elected will you commit to lowering taxes were least commit to not raising taxes or creeping new taxes for individual taxpayers and families? brown: let me be clear. i don't see the need to raise taxes. there will be no new taxes in the brown administration. let's complete the picture. we were a face with 40% increase in college tuition, overcrowded classrooms, the most congested streets on the highway and marylanders did their part to protect our schools, safe neighborhoods and thereby but also that we can sure that we have a vibrant economy and communities to attract families and business to maryland. there will be no new taxes. what i propose an effect i think mr. hogan and i agree in the need for tax relief. but where we differ is that my tax relief starts with a middle class.

it starts with small and entrepreneurial businesses, innovators and job greeters. the u.s. chamber of commerce looks at our small entrepreneurial business community and ranks it number one in the country the that's where we start to small businesses that create two out of every three middle-class jobs. what i disagree with is mr. hogan's approach, providing a $300 million tax giveaway annually to the smallest groups of the largest corporations, many of them headquartered out of the state of maryland who need it the least. in a brown-ulman administration we will fight for working families and middle-class jobs which means we're supporting small entrepreneurial businesses, with targeted tax credits so they can create the jobs that put marylanders to work. >> moderator: mr. hogan, your response. hogan: what the lieutenant governor just said sounds pretty good. unfortunately, it's the complete opposite of his eight-year

record of failure. you can't say that you're going to help middle-class families marylanders win for the past for the past eight years you passed 40 consecutive tax hikes that are crushing struggling maryland families. most of the 40 tax increases that you and your partner martin o'malley have pushed healthy people at the lowest end of the income scale the most. those are the people are struggling to another every day. i've been from one end of the stick together. people have had enough. 71% think taxes are too high. is the primary focus of my campaign. there you go again with this nonsense about the corporate giveaways. look, i talked about the fact we need to rollback as many of the 40 tax increases as possible and 38 are regressive taxes that hurts people at the lowest end of the income scale. you are the one who's talking about giving away special tax credits for specific corporations and big corporation

to talk about tax relief for all marylanders. and quite friendly to corporate giveaways we're having now is we're giving away our corporation to virginia, giving them way to north carolina, giving them away to other states because they're all fleeing our state. we lost 8000 businesses. taxpayers are something. they just can't take it anymore and that's exactly what i am running. you say you now agree but why haven't you been anything about it for the past eight years? that's the question. you've been in charge. you preside over the largest tax increases in history. now you say you want, you'll have a blue-ribbon commission to review taxes will. do you know when the last time we heard that was? in 2007 right before the largest tax increases in history. we don't need more of that. we need real tax cuts. >> moderator: mr. brown, rebuttal. brown: what marylanders remember and they don't want to go back to was the largest expansion state government under your administration, $300 billion in increases in taxes and fees, and you jacked up college tuition by

40% as the secretary, you appointed 10 of the 14 members to the board of regents that voted to increase college tuition by 40%. you left classrooms overcrowded, no plan to reduce congestion on the streets on the roads of maryland the marylanders remember those days and they do not want to go back to those days. this is not about the past but this is about the future. there will be no new taxes in a brown-ulman administration to do we tax credits for small businesses. a small business success story in maryland started in his grandparents garage and just three weeks ago announced -- the number two sports apparel company in the world. that's under armour and that's a maryland success story. under armour in its early years had tax credits to grow, they nurtured with a competitive workforce and they are now the number two sports apparel company in the world. >> during the last decade maryland has increased its investment in k-12 education. a policy under a periodic

review. meanwhile, baltimore city got approval for a novel school construction funding plan that will enable them to rapidly accelerate the replacement of aging buildings, a policy other counties have said they would be interested in volunteered be interested in following the tragedy value weighted the effectiveness and affordability of maryland spending on education and outline any changes you think would be necessary going forward? hogan: i think we've done a good job and spending money for education. we started with the early administration and continue with this administration to be doubled spending on education but the results have been mixed at best. we have some of the best schools in the country in maryland. unfortunately, we have some of the lowest performing schools in the country as well. the gap between the best and the worst schools is 50th in the nation. the gap between white students and minority students is the largest in the nation so both gaps have gotten wider over the past eight years. we need to invest money but we need to look at other ways to improve education. i want to push more dollars down

to the local level rather than having them eaten up in administered cost complicit in the classrooms. i want to make more decision at the local level with parents, students and teachers. we will push the pause button on common core which is been a complete disaster. recent test scores are some of the worst in recent memory. i pushed for charter schools. we are 50th in the nation in charter schools right now and i believe every single child in maryland deserves a quality education and we've got to work hard to try to make sure that happens. brown: once again we agree but i agree every child in maryland deserves access to a world-class education, and we've made tremendous progress in doing that. i do take issues with your fact we are closing the achievement gap on income faster than any state in the nation and we are making very good progress in eliminating the achievement gap along racial and ethnic lines but it's because, this is what the question goes to, the

resources we're willing to invest in our schools. in my vision for a world class education that starts with investments in pre-k education. every maryland for your old should have access to quality pre-k. if you ask university president or a kindergarten teacher, how do we best prepare kids for college register the workforce they all say expanded pre-k. mr. hogan oppose the expansion of pre-k. he says we can't afford. i say we can't afford not to do it. i support investment in school construction but we are not going to raise taxes to do it and we won't jeopardize our aaa bond rating but we have the ability with our aaa bond rating in maryland to make investment in schools and would have. i supported the $1.1 billion investment in baltimore city. i look forward to working with baltimore county, prince george's county in every county executive who wants to look for opportunities to deliver modern technology in the classroom. mr. hogan opposes that as well. in his most recent so-called

savings plan he calls for a $450 million cut to school construction. that would set us back years as we move children out of temporary learning trailers to technology ready classrooms that they can receive instruction that prepares them for college or the workforce. your cut would take maryland back to a place that they do not want to go. >> moderator: mr. hogan rebuttal. hogan: there he goes again confusing the facts. i support pre-k, number one. he runs commercial saying i don't support pre-k and i'm going to take $300 million out of the pockets of kids and give it to rich corporations. that's not true. i'm a big proponent of pre-k. we expanded pre-k to people who make 300% of the poverty level. $73,000 per year. what the lieutenant governor is talking about is expanding at to

pay for everybody in entire stay but he doesn't have a plant about how to publish that and he's not talking out how to pay for. he's not talking of making this happen until 2022. basically it's a campaign promise that is trying to mislead voters into thinking he's going to make happen and i'm not. when, in fact, were both support the concept and idea of pre-k. the fact of the matter is, politicians make fun promises all the time they can't deliver. i'm just a small businessman. i don't want to over promise and under deliver so when i said i'm not sure how we will afford at this point when we have $405 million shortfall, a structural deficit, we've increased spending during your administration by $10 billion now you're proposing 7 billion in new spending. >> moving on, next question. in a recent news conference the maryland comptroller blasted the state economy and talk about a projected shortfall in revenue. people like teresa down in crownsville asked if elected how would you address the fiscal challenges facing the state? brown: thank you, teresa. i can certainly assure you that

while i agree with a lot of things the comptroller says i don't agree with him when he says we will raise taxes. we will not raise taxes in the brown-ulman administration. look, we've got a aaa bond rating the we have created 16,000 jobs in the state. the u.s. chamber of commerce recognize our strong entrepreneurial business community as number one in the country. we are going to ensure that we target tax credits and business tax deductions that we can support small and entrepreneurial businesses that create two out of every three jobs in maryland. these are middle-class jobs and opportunities for working families. the other thing we're going to do is to make sure in order to offer those tax credits and relief to middle class families, going to look at spending. again mr. hogan and i agree that we need to look at spending in government but we fundamentally disagree on how we do that. my plan calls for strategic

resources but it calls for cooperative purchase agreement with counties so we can get more value at a lower cost. our vehicle fleet management continue to make strides in efficiencies and reducing our expenditures in medicaid, and now we just shifted to a new employee state health plan that will save us millions as we require state employees to focus more on wellness and prevention and less on chronic disease. my savings plan is considerably different than mr. hogan so-called savings plan which not only cuts $450 million from school construction but calls for $300 dollars increase in the property tax. that's what your so-called savings plan does? >> moderator: mr. hogan. hogan: first of all, most everything the lieutenant governor just said wasn't true. first of all he keeps saying he doesn't want to look at the past. deal to look to the future. he doesn't want to talk about

his eight year record of failure. over the past eight years is a failed record of lost businesses, lost jobs, higher spending and record tax increases. you increase spending by $10 billion. that's more than a rate faster than 46 other states. only three states in the country raised spending the way you did to you raised 40 taxes in took $10 billion out of the pockets of struggling maryland families. the last time you said there will not be any taxes, we don't foresee any taxes in the future, within the last election when you and martin o'malley said exactly the same thing. then you raised 40 taxes and with the that crushed families and small business. it's not about what somebody says. it's about what they have done. the lieutenant governor is asking for a major promotion. but he doesn't want us to look at his record. i think we got to look at the past eight years to say what's happened. you can't say you will cut spending when you increase spending by more than almost anyone else in the country. you propose in this campaign something like 7 billion in new spending. here's a fact for you. without you doing anything else,

the brown-o'malley tax increases that have taken 10 going out of are struggling maryland families pockets is going to double over the next four years to $20 billion but it will cost the average american family $9200 more per year thanks to you and martin o'malley raising taxes. that's before you add new taxes. brown: i'm running because i want to get the government off our backs and out of our pockets so we can grow the private sector, put people back to work and turn our economy around as he sat opposite of what's happened over the past eight years. >> moderator: rebuttal. brown: let's talk about records. over the course of the last eight years, let the base realignment effort, but 40,000 jobs to maryland. let's talk about record. i spearheaded the effort an integrated framework for public-private partnership where we a track that only private sector dollars but private sector ingenuity, projects like the $140 million private sector

investment in the port of baltimore that created 5000 jobs. not only those jobs but 1200 jobs coming to the port with amazon fulfillment center, bmw just announced that it's bringing increased volume of cars and increased jobs to the port. larry, the only plan that you've rolled out on this campaign is you talk about sort of woe is maryland's economy. the only plan is your so-called savings plan which is really with incompetence but it includes $450 million cut to school construction of increasing the property tax base. talk about cutting taxes. you are talking about increase in the property tax rate by $200 million you got a rounding error. this is not anthony brown. the "baltimore sun" did an independent analysis [talking over each other] >> moderator: i'm sorry, gentlemen but -- andy.

>> moving on to the environment. maryland is under and epa mandate. storm water, to clean up the chesapeake bay. we've taken a number of steps including the storm water management fee. what would be your administration's approach towards the epa mandate speak with here's the issue burt neuborne the chesapeake bay is our most valued asset and it's a treasure for not only maryland but the entire country to clean up the bay is going to be a top priority of the hogan administration and target different than this administration. rather than blaming farmers and waterman and the rain that falls on the roof of your house, we will take other actions. the 43% of all the sediment in the day comes down the river. it's the number one issue. it's been completely ignored for ages. we will push back to the federal government both the epa and army corps of engineers was responsible for dredging these sediments. will push back to make sure