we standards a star with a broken connector and nobody what's going to happen next. the medical marijuana problem again if option of just taking your eye off the ball. asic principles associate with the management were not pursued. step by step by step the process didn't work and i think most important thing the next governor will have to do is have a firm hand on the tiller and follow through and execute. >> moderator: thank you. ms. coakley tractor a lot of things have gone right in the last four and eight years of this administration including innovation, education investment, infrastructure investment in a very tough economy by the way we know we're coming out of now. one of the things of the next governor needs to do, and i will do, is look at those issues and see how we do better. i've talked about the reason we need to change our structure at the department of children and families. i've known that for the last 20 years how to work with kids and families was long as i have. we needed vision in the agency that works just to protect kids. i know we can do it under governor coakley.

i know and i said under the marijuana licenses we needed to do a better job. i will do a better job on that. the health connector is on its way to being fixed. that was an error and we need to do better with technology. >> moderator: thank you. falchuk: is easy to describe the things have gone wrong and said i would've handled it perfectly, differently if i were the governor. .. limited powers

and we have been following a model of intrusive big government that is doomed to failure. doesn't matter who is at the top. i am running because the system is broken and i have create jobs that solve the problems. we don't have the technology

within the state to do this. we know how to use technology to create efficiency and we would have avoided the website integration issue. there is so much we can do if we break from the status go and we are not doing that. that is why we needed an independent voice. >> here we sit a year into this and we have no visibility into what went wrong, what could be done to fix it and no one knows the total value of the price tag other than north of $500 million in taxpayer money and we are the only state in the country where no one lost their jobs who was

part of that. >> i am the only one on the stage who worked with kids. kids who i met who said you handled by sex abuse case when i was a child and i am 30 and i go to college and i still have nightmares but thank you. this is why i came up with a plan to fix this system. charlie reverted $2 million one year. >> moderator: do you want to give him a chance to respond?

>> i would not have chosen not to fix the agency as opposed to litigate. >> moderator: you will make up the time. go ahead. >> i have been clear that case didn't have merit. rather than spend millions of dollars on outside lawyers, let's end on a solution that is one-size-fits-all. that is what we need to do and i know how to do it. >> this is had fundamental challenge i am running and founded a new party because we need people to deal with these issues. this is dealing with children who have lost their lives and children who have been at risk. there is an argument and you have been having it with taking out ads and attacking each other and talking about the issues that are serious things. we should be able to work together on solving the issues.

it is disrespectful to voters and the lives lost to talk about them in this case. >> moderator: anyone want to respond? >> i agree. the super pac is criticizing me for doing what is in the best interest of commonwealth. >> both of you have had plenty of super pac opportunities to support what you are doing. i sent out a challenge saying to you think we should amend the constitution to not allow super pacs and no word. >> moderator: let him get a word and we will get back to you. >> i read there brief in 2010. it is written by a non-profit children's group that settled cases with 15 states and fixed what is wrong with child welfare. there is nothing more important than making sure the child

welfare agencies are doing what they should be doing. the right thing to do is fix it and move forward on a settlement instead of litigated. >> it is the poster child for out of control government. it tramples parents rights. the justina case created outrage and that girl would still be in dcf control if it wasn't for the pressure brought by millions of people across the country. dcf should be shutdown. >> this is not something financial engineering or prosecution will solve. we need roll up your sleeves reform on this. i am the only one with a plan. why? because i listen to people. we need to change the system

completely so it serves the voters who are the most at-risk people; kids. >> so charlie has read the brief but i have sat with the family and people for years and i am the one who has put out a plan, jeff, with all due respect, to say we need an a division within the agency that just protects kids. when your caseload was cutting the budget we were seeing the uptick in the sexual abuse cases in suffolk county. >> no one is questioning your work as a child advocate across your long and distinguished career in the public sector. >> i am. >> i am not questioning her work. it is work she and all of us should be proud of. but on the choice you made with respect to that case i simply

believe and i think the history has borne me out on this that massachusetts and the children served by that department would have been better served in the commonwealth have moved instead to fix what was wrong that at agency instead of litigating that case. because here we sit with an agency, and i have a plan, too, by the way, no one is disputing that, everyone agrees the agency has major issues and we are litigating a case filled five years ago still. >> moderator: final words. >> we made the right decision. what the lawyers looking for millions wanted to do was one-size-fits-all. it wasn't right for massachusetts. >> this is important that we get on. this is a serious issue but we are getting in the weeds. i think a lot of voters would say i don't know what they are talking about. >> moderator: go ahead

>> the next governor should be a weed wacker. one of the biggest problems in massachusetts is we have not had leadership on deacon hill that is getting down to the weeds, into the details and on the front line to find out loss going on and making sure what we say is happening. >> moderator: we had three rebutles and i want to move on >> i want to get in on this. i don't know how you can be talking about children when every single one of you support the killing of unborn babies in the women -- womb -- >> moderator: i am going to move on but you can return in your open period later on. in a recent pole, a majority of respo respondants said the economy and taxes were the issues of most

importance to them. when you are governor will the taxes go up, down or say standostay the same? >> i believe we ahead.

>> i am saying don't go if they don't have all of the candidates. >> voters have a right to see who is running. i don't control what they do. >> moderator: you can get back into this later on you have like. >> if i am elected governor, taxes will go down

substantially. i would like to give back every dollar i am able to save by streamlining and downsizing government but i cannot do it as past as i would like because we have $129 billion in debt and we have a responsibility to pay it down. for every dollar we save by downsizing and getting rid of waste, fraud and abuse and we take half the money toward the debt and half to the taxpayers. >> the middle class is hurting right now. their earnings power is down and i believe we ought to increase earned income credit and ought to roll the income tax back to the 5% as people voted but we ought to do it through attrition. i think that makes a lot of sense. i have a plan to attract businesses to communities throughout the commonwealth, creating jobs like i have created jobs by the thousands.

we need to do that throughout the commonwealth and you do that by doubling the historic tax credit and get rid of the inventory tax because that is a job killer. we need to have specific incentives to move into the d t gateway cities. >> taxes under baker will go down. we have proposed tax cuts for the inventory, businesses and people on public assistance but the most important thing is we put out a detailed, specific, economic development and growth plan. the greatest thing you can do is make the kinds of decision that will create growth and jobs across the commonwealth. my first stop was with the emerging technology center outside of 128 and a partnership

between manufactureer -- manufacturers -- and the people >> moderator:. thank you. rebutt rebuttal. >> if we don't invest in our education, particular computer science/s.t.e.m. we will not have the workforce even if the jobs come. i talked to a business saying they moved south because health care and energy is high but they moved back because they want people with a good high school education. >> the amount of money my wife and three children pay for health care is driven by how much it cost to go to the

hospital. this was the deal with partners that martha is trying to get approved and they have been raising prices relentlessly and addressing that is the bes tht k thing you can do. >> we need to create full trance transparency around health care. i cannot think of anywhere else where you can go to four different institutions within a couple miles and it can vary between $300-$400 percent. it bothers me you can learn more about a refrigerator than you can about health care. we should get serious. >> it was under charlie baker's administration that partners was allowed to be created and then

there is an administrative ov overlay and that is one reason the cost went up. the agreement we reached caps and lowers cost. >> moderator: go ahead and exchange. >> you closed the barn door after the horse left. if your deal is letting it grow, and staying money from people's pocket slowly, but the damage is done >> that is not what the deal does. it puts price caps on what they can charge. it is held accountability for better quality and other than filing a suit it is a better result for consumers >> i read the deal. in there i see what you are talking about that is slowing the growth. the distortion has already happen happened.

partners is looking west and the distortion will continue. >> the problem with the system is systemic. you folks are talking about picking at things around the edges. the system is corrupt. we are talking about the most expensive nanny state in the entire world with the exception of england. massachusetts is outrageous. we are spending money we don't have and the prices just keep going up and up and you ask for more and more taxes. >> you and i both worked in health care. you at harvard pilgrim for a long time. you and i know how complicated the contracts are. we need to change the delivery model and emphasis primary care and community health care centers to bring down the cost. it is proven if we manage our health care it will save a

considerable amount of income. >> i agree we need more in primary care. i believe the transparency piece can be done quickly and should be done. and by the way every study being done shows the single biggest factor driving up hilary clin n clinton -- health care -- in massachusetts is the difference in way. and i don't think that is credited to bureaucratic insiders. the way to deal with this is to make everybody's post their prices and i don't think that would be that hard to do. >> we are talking about the values that drive you when you make decisions as governor and i have this question for charlie because we are talking historically. how is it and what do you say to people when you turned around pilgrim but left 35,000 seniors

off and tripled cost and tripled your salary. >> i walked into a health care plan that covered thousands of people and owed tens of hundreds of millions of dollars to hospitals and other proird providers. if harvard pilgrim went down thousands of people would have lost their jobs and important health care institutions would have gone away. the fact we saved, and there were a lot of people involved, jobs for people and important health care institutions here in massachusetts and i believe was a time of setting the market back. >> your salary went up and how do you explain that to people that lost their care? >> my salary was set by the

boa board. it was consistent with market value over all. it wasn't something i negotiated on. i am so proud of the thousands of jobs. >> moderator: we have a break at a hand but i will give you a few moments. >> charlie saying the prices going up because of the cost of the hospital visits is true but they are in the hands of the leadership and we need new leadership. >> moderator: let's take a break, have a sip of water and when we return the wbz gubernatorial debate will continue. please stick with us. welcome back to the wbz gubernatorial debate live from the studios in boston. let's resume the debate.

we will get back to the policies stuff in a moment. but here is a question that hopefully quill give us a little insight into your character. what was the most difficult decision you ever had to make in your professional life and why did you decide the way you did? >> it was the decision to go about founding a new independent party and running as governor. i departed from a successful business career and talking with my wife and kids who are supportive, i believe the system isn't representing people and i felt the way to change it wasn't to just run but to build a new party saying everyone is equal and everyone's civil rights need to be protected. we have an opportunity to inspire people. when we see 16% of people voting in the primary that is a terrible sign in the democracy. it was a tough choice but i feel

honored to be part of this. >> moderator: mr. lively? >> that is a tough question. i have made a lot of career choices that were difficulty to make. a more challenging one in recent years was closing down a successful law firm in california in order to go back on the mission field. i gave up a substantial salary. my wife and i run an inner city mission now. we set-up a church called holy grounds coffee house and serves the most disadvantage people in society but it was worth it. >> moderator: mr. mccormick? >> i would say starting up a company to treat als. it was a struggle and ne

neurological diseases are extremely complicated and having trials that made no sense to anyone was a gut check moment. it was a huge investment and my wife and i felt it was the right thing to do because we believe it will help als patients but we thing the findings in the laboratory will lead to other neurological diseases like parkinson's. >> moderator:. thank you. >> career achievement? when harvard pilgrim was in trouble we decided to exit the marketplace and that involved tens of thousands of members.

that was easily the hardest decision i ever made. and we made sure to make sure everyone in active treatment stayed. we made sure every provider who did business for us got paid and we made sure every person in the organization had an opportunity to find other employment as we went through the process. that was a classic example of having no way out and no good choice and we had to make it to this day. >> the easy decision is after law school and working in a big firm and making a call to go into public service. the hardest decision was working with tom riley on the child abuse unit. i wanted to do homicide, i wanted to be in the courtroom trying cases for victims and this was the hardest job and decision i have had.

i had not done child abuse cases before. it was a time as charlie said that number of cases were growing, including physical abuse cases, so we started working with doctors with broken limbs and fractured skulls and one 8-year-old ended up in the emergency room and i had that case. it made be a better district attorney and prosecutor. >> moderator: i should have noted this was a question submitted by steve in arlington. would anyone hike to follow-up or rebut thought they heard? >> i want to say congrats to jeff. one of the big things i heard this summer after the ice bucket challenge because of the money raised on that clinical trials are ahead by 3-4 years. what we are able to do in massachusetts with our life science and people like jeff willing to invest in it means it

is an economic driver for massachusetts and people's lives will be better. >> isn't it odd the only one with biotech experience was disinvited from the biotech meeting. >> moderator: let's turn back to issues that made the top five issues on voter's mind. u.s. terrorism. yesterday, an associate on the fbi's most-wanted terrorist list that is believed to be a key isis operative and boston is one of three u.s. cities where the feds are focusing efforts on recruitment of terrorist.

here is my question: is massachusetts a magnet for terrorist in some way? if so, why? and what would you do as governor to pro-actively identify them before they act out? >> yes, i think it is. because it is a liberal state. the place where radical islamist are going are radical countries. the north -- netherlands, sweden, uk -- and they have going to the states with the great depressiest amount of power. they know they can get away with more where people don't have guns to defend themselves. they are going to places with the strongest gun laws. they are going to places where the government is focused at the highest and there is no local focus. >> moderator: thank you. mr. mccormick? >> i don't think we are a magnet

other than we are a very cosmopolitan area and we have a lot of influence on what happens around the world. people from abroad want to get an impact so of course they going to go to the kinds of cities they think they can make that and be seen. they are not going to go to nowhere. they are going to the major northeastern cities. for example, john, i think what why need to do as governor is work with our federal government closely. those agencies don't talk well at all. obviously our state agencies don't either. and a lot is coming down to use of technology and vigilance. >> i would agree i think the cosmopolitan nature of boston has something to do with it. we have a lot of people coming here to go to school, to works,

to visit here and why are a great location for someone to get to and from a lot of places here. as a result as governor there is no priority that is higher than the protection and safety of the people here. as governor i would make sure my administration was in constant contact with federal, city, national securityy agencies and i would take a personal interest in making sure we did everything we could to stay on top of everything going on in the cyber community, and in the community generally. >> i remember like it was yesterday. i was district attorney on the second floor into the tallest building in east cambridge on 9/11 and we knew after the second building was hit the country was being attacked and we had to leave that building. as a result of that, and i know

this as district attorney, since that time in the state level and improving communications we have a terrorism task force and we stay in touch all of the time and we need to make sure we continue that communication and look at better threat assessment tools because new york, boston and all of those cities will be and we continue to deter threats and respond as we did in the boston marathon as soon as we can and keep the communication going. >> moderator: thank you. >> the world is a dangerous place and the government has an important observation to make sure everyone is kept safe. i am worried about the war on terror and the civil liberties being encroached on. as residents of massachusetts we were told stay in our home. when you saw the militarized police in the streets this was a

w w worrisome develop. we are called the land of the brave. our civil liberties shouldn't be negotiable. >> moderator: rebuttal anyone? >> on that friday i went to where all of police were. we understood the judicial systems would work and i worked to get search warrants in cambridge. i know we have to have a plans between the way we -- balance -- get information and collect it but we are dealing with borders and people coming out and sharing information and doing threat assessments under the rule of law. >> moderator: response? >> as the rule of law has been read to allow the government to snoop on people's e-mails, conduct wireless in ways --

>> and we need to respond with the rule of law and mnot be su subject to terrorist threats. >> moderator: i am going to get you in and then mr. lively is waiting patiently. >> let's go back to public leaders and officials needing to be forth right and open with people about the decisions they make. i happen to think on this particular one, most of the people i know and have talked to about the issues around surveillance and phone calls and wire taps and all of the rest, the big issue is this was going on and no one in the government was telling them about it. i think people are not only brave, i think they are old enough and mature enough to have a conversation about this. >> i want to inject one thing to my original comment. that is the problem with

immigration. we need to close the borders from illegal immigrants. we need to stop bringing so many radical islamist into our country through the legitimate policy. if you look and see where the radicals are going they are going to the place with the most liberal policies regarding immigration. >> i think we need a system that is fair to people here including residence and that means you need the rule of law and the ability to make sure we have information you can assess and protect and there are times when you cannot tell everybody what you are doing in real time but i believe government information should be made public at some point. >> 61% of the counties in the commonwealth are founded by immigrants. people don't have a sign on

them -- i have friends all over the world that come here. >> legally, i hope. >> our government does the best job to keep terrorist out of the country. no one would disagree with that. but that is a function of agencies working together, states working with the federal government, it is a complicated issue. >> i talked to enough folks in law enforcement to follow up there is situations when the federal government isn't telling people at the time state and local level about things going on in their own community. we have a huge disconnect about what the feds and states/locals know and that has to change. >> moderator: briefly if you have anything else and then i want to move on. >> things wouldn't have to be

hidden if he had not brought so many trouble makers into the country. >> what we face and the challenges faced are not going to be fixed by in stistilling f in people. >> moderator: i want to return to health care in a different perspective here. you will start here mr. lively. if republicans win back to whitehouse in 2016, it is entirely possible they may try to repeal at least parts of the new federal health care law. if you are elected, you mean be in office as governor at that time, are there any aspects of that law you would encourage washington to change or are you satisfied with it as-is? >> i think socialized medicine is an absolute disaster for the country.

i would completely repeal obamacare and rebuild from the ground up. all of the things i am talking about. when i say eliminating, i am not talking about that because we have to have the agencies. but let's stop following the far left ideas. >> moderator: mr. mccormick? >> i am running to bring people together. we had the most inclusive health care system in the united states and we should have emphasis on that. with 42% of the state's budget we have to do it much more aggressively than we are doing it nowi. we have to take those models to the next levels and decrease the cost of care. >> mr. baker?

>> i think the most important thing the next governor will have to do with respect to what happens to the affordable care act is try to make sure most of the important decisions that matter, with respect to health care and health care coverage in massachusetts, are made by people in massachusetts. the main reason i supported the waiv waiver, not going it was going to blowup, was because i wanted massachusetts to continue to be in the driver seat and control its own destiny. it is a big employer, important issue and one that people take personally. i would like the commonwealth, if there are changes to be made with respect to the affordable care act, to have the latitude and ability to make decisions about how our health care system works that will benefit people in massachusetts. i feel terribly loosing control of this to a person who has never been here >> if your child as a brain tumor you want them at children's hospital. if your sister is suffering at breast cancer you want her at a

good hospital in massachusetts. people come from all over the world to get health care here because we have health care that is focused on quality care, excellent care that is extensive. we have been able to put together with a republican governor, democratic legislature, our business community, providers, health care, and consumer advocates, a health care reform that said let's cover people, keep it quality and address cost now. that is what we are doing. it will not happen overnight. we need waivers but we have the right plan and compo know what we want to happen here. >> we have to change the economic model of health care in massachusetts. states like maryland put in place a fee schedule that is passing the risk of care on to hospitals so they can be more

efficie efficient. every time you pay a higher insurance premium or deductible it is because of partners becoming a monopoly and the government allowing this to take place. we will thought get different results going down the same path. i have a specific clear path in changing the economics of making hospitals make money off when you are well. >> we have to have a governor bringing people together. we have world hp class physicians and nurse and administrators and technology. it is going to take everyone, including providers and payers, that come up with a common solution. this doesn't make sense if we are all fit and bankrupt. >> the dollars being sent to those hospitals because of the way they can distort the market

is the issue we face for economic development. i am will to call out partners for what it is and takes the steps that will save billions. >> i think the insurance corporate model versus the government socialist model is a false choice. there is a middle path of non-profit risk pools that are less costly and people are not restricted to the doctors and hospitals they can go and where the members are stakeholders in the billing process which has a downward pressure on cost. >> as we move away from cheaper service and trying to get into the communities more affordable and integrated health care this is the one way we will be able to address mental and behavioral health care. it is a huge issue in massachusetts. it is expensive because we don't deal with it -- expensive -- and it creates a nightmare for those

suffering and their family. >> four people on the panel talked about waivers and there is one that could do that. we have a broken website. we used to to have the best and now the worst. we have spent hundreds of milli millions of theres and disrupted care for million. >> i have worked with how it happened here. we have appointees who are independent on health care and the best on the board. i will stand up for my employees on the health connector board. >> moderator: do you want to rebut that? >> one member of the board was an independent director that questioned a lot of the decisions made and they canned him three weeks ago.

this is an example of a one-parone-part one-party government. there is a lot of lack of transparency coming from one team on the field. >> we were the only state in the country that tried to and provided the model for what happened at the nation lenation ice -- national aisle. >> this is another serious problem the left has gotten us into. we should not have to have waivers. just the fact we need them demonstrates it is a broken system. >> moderator: let's move on to another question here. we are doing great. at least i think so.

voters themselves can make laws using the addition process and the voter's decision have not always been carried out by the legislature mostly in the failure to roll back the tax percent to 13%. if voters repeal the gas tax indexing and the casino law will you honor their will and if not do you favor the repeal of the initiative process? mr. mccormick? >> i do not favor the repeal of the process but i think it should be used judicially. we cann we cann we cannot legislate by refrendum all of the time. and i don't know why you think

if voters pass you can say you can file legislation to get them legislated back in. that doesn't make sense. that is why we vote. >> i was one of the person that collected signatures to push bag the automatic gas tax so i am going to vote for that. i am voting against the casino appeal and not because i love them and i think we should have one, it should be in springfield. if the voters chose to reject them completely we will have a discussion about the springfield site. if it doesn't go anywhere we will leave it at that. i supported getting there question on to the ballot and was glad when the supreme court came out saying it should be on the ballot. you collect 125,000 signatures

you belong on the ballot. >> if we are going to fix the roadss -- roads and bridges -- we need that tax. i think that is one good investment in what we need to not provide in boston and cambridge but around the state the economic plan i laid out that will invest in our kids and businesses. in terms of questions, we knew it would go to the court. no one was disadvantaged by that. i agree with charlie. as the voters voted in springfield if it can be part of a larger plan i support that if they want it but let's wait until november. >> the size of that, if the voters go and appeal the entire

casino process, you will go to the legislature and try to put the casino back in and that doesn't even seem realistic. we have examples of laws that are passed and not implemented. it is supposed to be the budget updated ten years and the last time it happened was ten years ago. we talked about chapter 257 for human service workers for the state hasn't lib lived up to the obligation. >> moderator: thank you. mr. lively? >> barbara, i am with you. i think massachusetts should do more to support citizen legislation. i lived in oregon for 15 years and the citizens there can legislate directly. here they can veto. the citizens collected well over a hundred thousand signatures to

put gay marriage on the ballot and the left prevented them from going to the ballot. >> if i can clarify. i am in favor of repeal so we are clear on that. but one thing we need to look at is what it will do to lottery revenue. we will have hundreds of communities affected by that. if you advocate local aid, the numbers will be eye popping for come communities. >> i know to respond to evan and i know charlie agrees. i am proud to be the first to challenge the defensive marriage act to make sure in massachusetts people can marry who they love. i stand on that decision. >> i never said i felt otherwise. >> you didn't. >> moderator: go ahead, mr. baker. >> since she referred to me i will address that.

>> moderator: we are talking about a different issue so let's conclude that first. >> my whole point in supporting one casino is what the collateral impact would be. i walked had sight in springfield. it was a sight torn up by the tornado and it will create main streets in a place where we don't have any and a part of the commonwealth where the unemployment rate is twice the rate around the country. >> a lot of people don't haven't the casino. the last thing we want is exploiting the weakness of others for personal gain. that is what casinos do. >> the legislature created the framework and the voters vote for the cities and down and that should be the end of it. the side that loses has to move on and join with the side that wins.

>> all i know is if we don't have the income from the gas tax we will not be able to grow the in jobs and fill the jobs >> we will if we downsize the government. >> if the legislature wants to raise the gas tax the legislature should vote to raise the gas tax. i said this was a bad precedent. the idea of the tax going up every year. question two raises it deposit on bottles every five years for every and ever. this isn't the way to run a cost-efficient government. >> i don't think this is the slippery slope you make it out to be, charlie. we are talking about the business leader support and if we want to move ahead in massachusetts we need the predictable income. >> the adjustments make it work like the sales and income tax

and works more like a percentage. there is a law on the books lowering the income tax gradually. let's be real about what is happening. >> my response to that is the voters in 2003 wanted the income tax to be 5%. to some extent the legislature created the slope, which is better than nothing, but if you asked 60% of the voters in 2003 who said they wanted a 5% income tax they would say we are long overdue on delivering for that. >> we need a group of people who can look at the facts and make good decisions and are forced to think out of the box and about change. we need a break from the status quo. >> and >> moderator: on that note, that concludes the debate.

thank you for watching. go to cbsboston.com to watch parts or the full debate. and follow us for thorough campaign analysis. most burped importantly get out and vote on november 4th. tonight we will have live coverage of the wisconsin debate between scott walker and mary burke. here is a look at some of the ads running. >> i am scott walker. i am pro-life but there is no doubt the decision to end a pregnancy is an agonizing one and that is why i support legislation to increase safety and provide more information for a woman considering her options. the bill leaves the final decision to a woman and her doctor. reasonable people can disagree

on this issue. our priority is to protect the health and safety of all wisconsin citizens >> the midwest is coming back >> the economy is improving. >> significant economic recovery is out pacing all states. >> but in wisconsin, scott walker cut taxes for the top, slashed education and we fell behind in job growth. tax cuts for the top and dead last in jobs. scott walker is not working were you. >> thanks to our reforms the average family will have an extra $322 to spend. what are you going to do with your savings? >> buy school supplies. >> 96 gallons of gas. >> taking a trip to see the grand kids. >> new tires for the trucks >> that is over 2700 diapers.

>> my opponent wants to undo reforms and keep your money in madison. i want you to keep it. >> what is $11 were you and wisconsin? how about a pizza? scott walker thing thinks that is what buys your plan. businesses got tax cuts and millionaires got $14,000 a year. for you? enjoy your meal. millions for them. pizza for you. >> this week marking the first of two debates where scott walker is seeking a second term. joining us from milwaukee is bill glauber who is following the story for the junior cen centinal. thank you for being with us.

two debates. both on a friday night. why? >> i think it is because that is when they can get the airtime and clear the stations and that is how the wisconsin broadcasters have done it for years. always a friday night debate. >> explain the format and what you are looking for? >> i wrote 1990's format. a moderator for each person, 90 second answers and 30 second rebutles and long opening statements of two minutes and closing statements of three minutes. ...

is a volatile and they could switch, anything can happen. >> the fact this race is so close does that surprise you? >> no, what does and. this is wisconsin and wisconsin is the definition of a purple state, although it's purple in a different hue i would say because you have deeply blue

milwaukee and madison, and then you have read surrounding those areas. so it's a polarized state and you're always going to have a close race here whether it's in the statewide races are, excepting for the last two presidential elections, usually a very close presidential state. >> what about mary burke? what is her background? what does you bring to this race and how does the walker campaign view her? >> she is bit tough to pin down by the walker campaign because she's not a politician in terms of it's not in her career. sa, a business executive, a philanthropist. she's on the madison school board. this is her first statewide race and it is taken the walker team a lot of time to try to attack her and to sort of drive up her negatives. it finally happened a little bit when there was a jobs plan she released that turned out to have

been sections were used in other plans by the democratic candidates. it was the consultant fault of ms landed in her lap. >> would've issues we been seeing in these campaign ads, the tax cut wisconsin voters were able to get a few hundred dollars a year and the walker campaign pointing to that is something that's been positive for voters in the state and burke campaign saying it's too little, too late. >> they have been saying that the burke campaign, the main issue in this race is jobs, governor walker promised 250,000 jobs would be created during his first years in office, his first four years. that hasn't happened. so they are going to be doing with numbers, labor statistics during the debate, and it's basically a view of the economy. isn't working or is it not? >> governor walker is talked about his potential 2016 presidential campaign. clearly has to get through this

campaign first. what are you hearing in wisconsin? >> yeah, he is. he's been looking at that race for a long time. it's been obvious. used in everything that you do if you're going to run for president. running around the country giving speeches after the recall election in 2012, has written a book, is definitely a guy that some people see as a person who could unite republican party but again yes to get through this and then the other question mark out that he would be if paul ryan decides to run for president, what would scott walker do? but right now they're really focused on winning the governor's race. race. >> those two are good friends, correct? >> walker and ryan have known each other for many years. yes, they our friends. and also ryan's previous who is head of the national republicans also comes from wisconsin, together real wisconsin connection at the highest

reaches of the republican party. >> bill glauber from milwaukee, right for the journal sentinel. thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> republican incumbent governor scott walker at his democratic challenger mary burke debate tonight. c-span will have live coverage at eight each and. a compilation of recent poll shows governor walker pulling ahead by less than two percentage points. >> debate coverage continues over the weekend. the u.s. senate race in iowa to fill the seat of retiring democrat tom harkin.

>> now to the first debate between illinois democratic governor pat quinn and his republican challenger, bruce rauner. governor quinn has served as governor since 2009. of the then governor rod blagojevich was impeached and removed from office on corruption charges. "the cook political report" lists this race as a top -- also. this took place in peoria, illinois, courtesy of wtvp and runs about one hour. ♪ ♪ live from the wtvp studios on the peoria, illinois, riverfront this is the illinois gubernatorial downstate debate. this program is produced in partnership with the public broadcasters of illinois and the league of women voters. >> moderator: good evening. i'm jak tichenor. i will be the moderator of tonight's debate between the two

major hearty candidates for governor of illinois. the candidates are incumbent democratic governor quinn of chicago who is seeking his second full term as chief executive, and republican nominee bruce rauner, a businessman. libertarian candidate chad graham of peoria is not taking part in the debate. he failed to receive at least 10% support in a nonpartisan poll prior to the event. the minimum required for participation by the league of women voters of illinois. our candidate will be questioned by a trio of journalists. unmanned, blaine wilson, and jamey dunn. we will start with a one minute opening statement from each of the candidates, he would've which was determined by an offstage quintiles. the first opening statement will go to governor quinn. what makes you the best qualified candidate for the job? quinn: thank you, check.

good evening. but it took the oath of office five years ago it was a tough time for illinois. we had one forme formidably cond one of the going to jail. we had a great recession caused great harm to many people who lost their jobs. we had a huge budget deficit. as i got sworn in as the people for their prayers. i'm grateful for them. we been able to make our decisions to help our state move forward. we're able to cut our budget and remove unnecessary funding by about $5 billion. we've been able to make important fiscal reforms and greater state better. along the way i had to suspend the legislators paychecks including my own. we got the job done for the people. right now our state has unemployment at its lowest levels in six years. jobs are up, unemployment is down. it's very important we keep together and work together, investing in education. we've been able to increase our investment in education. i think the best way to go is to stay in this direction and do the right thing.

rauner: good evening. thank you to the panels. thanks to the lead. thank you the people of pure. thank you to the viewers here at home joining us tonight. my name is bruce rauner, here because i'd like you to work for you. i love them out as i want to look to become the best wednesday in america. i've been blessed in my career, terrific results first working for illinois teachers and police officers by investing their pension money, then by giving back in our committee, donating to our schools, our red cross, our veterans services. we've driven results and i want to say now to turn our state government around. the last 12 years our state has lost its way. a small group of chicago machine politicians got control of our government in springfield and they have led us down a bad death. high unemployment, crime, low wages, deteriorating schools. highigh unemployment. we've lost our way of the state. we needed to terrific on the one who can try big change. i can't be brought -- bought,

bribed and intimidated. i'm not going to take us on our pension and i'm going to dedicate my work to restoring the prosperity for the families of illinois and bring back the american dream for every family by growing our economy and having the best schools in america. >> moderator: it's time for questions from the panelist. the candidates will each get one minute to answer the question. question comes from amanda for bruce rauner. >> i hope this will be an easy question to begin the evening. in this age of hyperpartisanship, compromise is often seen as a dirty word in some political circles. which member of the opposite party who is currently either in or running for office do you most admire or feel you could, in fact, work with, and why? rauner: interesting. through the process over the last couple of years as i've been running for governor, i've taken time to get to know members of the general assembly personally. republicans and democrats.

i've spent time to get to know the democrats. i look forward to working close with him to solve problems on a bipartisan basis. i like jak franks, 40 working within. troy hutchinson, later south of chicago. i look forward to working with her on education and other issues. i have a proven record in the private sector working with people from all backgrounds to solve problems and get things done. i was asked by the mayor in chicago to take over the changes that were needed at mccormick place as a board member to make sure we are competitive for convention business. we've made big changes and restored conventions. the mayor asked me to take over the tourism bureau and put in a new board, new staff, and today she covers one of the fastest growing tourist destinations but i will work with the democrats, republicans to solve problems together. >> moderator: governor quinn. quinn: i get along with everybody. i believe in civility.

kurt dillard, someone from my hometown, unlv head of the regional transportation authority. my mom worked at a junior high school that kurt went to. we don't always agree on every single issue, but we've worked on bipartisan important reforms. the pension reform was bipartisan. we have democrats and republicans working together. i think it's important to do that, and the best way is to do what we have done. when we get our state, back on the job track and out of the recession we passed a bipartisan bill for jobs in illinois, for construction jobs, rebuild roads and bridges. and our water systems and the schools. we did that in a bipartisan way. i worked with the legislative members and leaders of both parties spent any other member since senator george is no longer a senator lex. quinn: he still a member of the other party. that's what you as. i think jim gergen, a leader of the republicans in the house, he

worked with us on the pension reform. i enjoyed working with him. >> moderator: mr. rauner, anyone you like to add to that? rauner: there are many members and the general assembly who i've gotten to know. i will work very closely with them on a personal basis. >> the website was opened up to questions by the public and the number one topic that they submitted by far was about jobs, not surprisingly. with that in mind, caterpillar has plans from a roar to decatur and is one of the largest economic drivers in the state. the company has delayed announcement of a new corporate headquarters which hopefully will still stay in peoria. some engine manufacturing has moved out of state. if you're elected governor what would you specifically do to ensure that manufacturing firms across the state state and create private sector job growth in illinois? >> are manufactured is up. we have worked no one would catapult the john deere and

navistar. especially auto manufacture because with someone auto supply jobs in illinois as well as countries like chrysler. when i became governor chrysler and belvedere had 200 jobs. they now have 4500 manufacturing jobs. same way with ford on the south side of chicago. they had one shift, now they have three around the clock. south of year, mitsubishi, new product line. i've worked with each and every one of those companies there i think it's important of skilled workers, well-trained workers. we provide job training wherever possible, incentives not only for big businesses for for small business. there's a reason why so many small businesses have begun and growing in illinois in the last five years. we emphasize education and working together we these companies. that's the best way to help our companies grow. rauner: the simple fact is since governor quinn came in office illinois has lost over 40,000 manufacturing jobs. i was very honored to receive

the personal endorsement of the ceo of caterpillar early in this election, doug oberhelman. he has been an outspoken critic of the business climate in illinois. illinois is hostile to manufacturing firms with our regulations and taxes. as long as that's true we can't grow our economy and we can't solve the many problems facing us in illinois. manufacturing jobs on average have about $64,000 in pay and benefits. they create another two and have jobs on average. manufacturing economy is critical to i will work closely with manufacturing firms like a caterpillar to make sure they stay in peoria. i want to make sure caterpillar opens their headquarters here by making sure the business economy is strong and thriving. i'm honored to be endorsed by the manufactures association, the illinois chamber of commerce. we need to make illinois or business and pro-growth to fund our schools and our pensions and turn our state around.

>> states would play a large will in implementing the proposed federal world cut carbon emissions but do you believe climate change is happening and is man-made? >> i believe we need a broad-based portfolio of energy options in illinois and in america. i do not believe betting too much on any one sector is prudent. we need broad-based and we need the energy independence for america and i'd like to see that also for illinois. i believe we can have renewable energies resources here. we could happen should a for for the department of our wind farms, solar energy, renewable resources. i believe we can be prudent in our energy development for more traditional resources. we have incredible energy opportunity in the southern illinois with coal, with oil and gas, with hydraulic fracturing. it can be a massive job creator and tax revenue generator if you

have a broad-based forefront of energy options and they'll push every capability in that regard threats i've never what i do think we have to reduce emissions i was to take on climate change. the winter we just had a terrible tornadoes last november nearby and watched and other places in illinois. it was an alarm signal to all of us that severe weather is something we have to pay attention to and reducing emissions is part of the job for all of us. since i've been governor our state has erected many, many wind turbines all across illinois. i believe in wind energy and solar energy. i've been on the roof of the shattuck wave in chicago where they have solar collectors, world-class. we have to believe in energy efficiency and we've invested in debt. our state is the only state not on a coast that is in the top 10 of energy efficiency states in the country. we been able to do that in my time as governor. we invested in energy

efficiency. it's one of the best ways to reduce emissions, help grow jobs. these are clean energy jobs that create good paying jobs for people by reducing the need for energy wherever possible. i think the state can be a leader in this area. we have good workers were well-trained. >> moderator: amanda has a question for governor quinn. >> governor, too many incumbents are running for office and were concerned with reelection than voters. that's a quote from you in 1994, january, when you were campaigning term limits for illinois. now you're running for office which would be 10 years as governor and 16 consecutive years in the executive branch. what has changed? for you, mr. rauner can you often brag about your lack of government experience. name what time you have hired a novice to serve as executive level as the ceo, and how did that go? quinn: i led the effort for term limits in 1994, collected a half

a million signatures. i believe having term limits for each office is a good thing for illinois. i think i demonstrated early on my support for term limits. i've never waiver. in 2008 when there's a vote for constitutional convention one of the issues we used was importance of term limits for each and every office. also have been able to pass a constitutional and for recall in illinois as well as reducing the size of the legislature, to constitutional amendments i put on the ballot and got past. i don't think anyone should be in office for too long. i think it is important to have reasonable term limits for each and every office and i work hard on the. i'm disappointed that my opponent didn't help us in 1994 when we are petitioning for term limits. we went all over the state. he had a great opportunity to join us. he refused to do it in and all of a sudden this year, election-year he is a born-again term limits advocate. i think it is a good policy and look forward to getting it

passed. took me 30 years to get recall done but we got it done and six we need term limits. i will never give up on this issue. pat quinn had the chance for six years as governor t drivability general assembly for term limits and has been completed silent on the issue. i will drive term limits with the general assembly to get on the ballot. let the voters decide. that's what is most important reforms we can make. that along with redistricting reform such i will push as governor can transfer and the culture. you asked asked the question er about experience. i've been a ceo for decades. i've land and built one of the most successful most respected investment organizations in the world, driven great results for the taxpayers. and i've driven great results in many other organizations in the not-for-profit world as well. i've worked in and around government for education reform, pension reform, for good

government in the many regards. i've proven ability to solve problems come build talent and i will work on a by person basis to do it. >> have you ever hired anybody with a little experience in anyone sector to work for one of your companies? rauner: i think we can look at rick snyder in michigan he was a venture capitalist like me became governor, he won his first election which i will also do, and disturbing missions around very well. look at rick scott was a successful ceo and health care company, he won his first election. we can look at michael bloomberg, a successful ceo in business, he won his first election, mayor of new york at december the important and dramatic reforms in new york. business leaders, ceos can solve problems and get things done. it's all about executive leadership, teambuilding. >> moderator: i will have to stop you. governor quinn, we'll give you 30 seconds to wrap up. quinn: my opponent talks the successful results.

he's been involved with 12 different bankruptcies involving other companies, and there have been six of his executives indicted and convicted and sent to jail. two are under indictment now. they have 150 lawsuits against their nursing home chain, and $1 billion worth of claims of wrongful death in those nursing homes, lodged against his company. so seems to me those are not terrific results whatsoever. >> moderator: let's get back to the foreground. >> let's turn to education. statewide advisory question number three on the november for the ballot asks if school district should receive additional revenue based on enrollment from an additional 3% tax on income greater than $1 million. do you support the proposal? if so how would you ensure that the money will go to schools? if you don't support the proposal, from what source would you seek additional money for

education? rauner: first of all, the politicians in illinois have said every time they want to raise taxes it's for school. we put the water in illinois to fund schools. the money doesn't end up in our schools. our current governor racer income taxes 67%. the nays have it $9 from our school funding. politicians use schools as an excuse to raise taxes. i am opposed to putting for the income tax on the premise of illinois. we already have income taxes that are too high. i would rather like to see income taxes rolled back to where the work in 2010. and other tax reforms to generate additional revenue. the biggest reform think becoming a pro-growth state where growth generates tax revenues. i am strongly a believer we will soon increase overall in education funding. other things, wasteful spending can be kept but education must be increased in its support but i will make that a top priority as governor.

quinn: when it comes to education, funding, my opponent make something. we increased education funding in the classroom by about $500 million from independent fact checkers have indicated that. we made the teachers pension every single get a car to my arrival that didn't happen. i paid attention to an increase funding in education. i think we need to do more. there is a referendum i signed to put on the ballot asking whether or not millionaires should pay higher income tax and all that money by constitutional amendment would go to the school districts and classrooms of illinois. i think that's a good idea. my opponent who is a billionaire doesn't want to raise his income tax but he wants to slash funding for schools all across illinois. his budget plan would slash or education budget by $4 billion but it would lay off one out of six teachers and cause great harm to everyday people. he wants with his planned 1 million-dollar tax cut for himself and education funding

slashed all across illinois. i don't go for that i think it's a good opportunity for the people of illinois at the ballot boxes in a message to the millionaires and billionaires they ought to pay more. >> moderator: next question is from jamey to governor quinn. quinn:quinn. >> based telescope dishes can ct make it on state aid a loan because there sacrifice are so low that they can't provide the minimum amount of spending it for people. a new proposal by democratic senator andy minard would distribute more state dollars to districts based on the ability to pay. do you support his plan or is there better way of ensuring local bishops have the funding they need to provide a decent education to every student? quinn: we need to increase education. we have to fund schools more. one way to do it is the referendum we just talked about. another what is the budget i proposed earlier. it would put more money and classroom education than any other time in illinois history.

also put more money into early childhood education as well as scholarships for students to go to college. >> do you support . quinn: without proposal i think it needs a lot of oversight and review. it passed one house, the senator did not passed the house. it needs more debate. i do not favor reducing funding in a particular school district. to its disadvantage. i think a much better way to go is what i just propose, increasing funding for all school districts. i think that should be done first and foremost. >> moderator: mr. rauner. rauner: i haven't said the details on the bill, and from what i've read i probably would not support that particular bill although i do believe we should come up with a new state education funding formula. we are idly 48 out of 50 states for state general revenue support for education. that's not right. we should increase our state support for our schools. my wife and i believe education is the most important thing we do together as a committee. there's nothing more important to when you look at the

challenge we face as a state and as a nation, unemployment, low wages, high crime, poverty. the challenges we face, education it is not the full solution but it's a major part. my wife and i did the dedicate our lives to improving public education. we are very active in this issue. governor quinn on the other hand, has been in government for decades. he has been zero on education, completely lacking any in regard in education, except is increased earned income taxes and then cut education funding. we need an education governor and i will eat and that problem. >> you both claim the state cannot afford the current level of retirement benefits for public employees. do you think the framers of the illinois constitution made a mistake by including the pension protection clause that says

retirement benefits shall not be diminished and should not amend the constitution now to remove that amendment? rauner: i personally don't think that constitutional in which is a mistake at all. i think pensions are a contractual obligation, and what is greek you should be paid into an honored by all parties. i was opposed to the pension changes that pat quinn put through last november because i believebelieve they were unconstitutional. i don't believe it's right to change the payment to retiree after they already retired. that's what governor quinn did in that pension reform bill. i don't think that's the right thing to do. what i have argued from day one in this race is i think both the fair thing to do and the constitutional thing to do is to freeze the current pensions where they are today. don't change anything from what is a crude. pay those benefits as they come due in the future but starting tomorrow for future work, both for current employees in future

employers, we should create a second pension plan that's more flexible and affordable. doesn't save a lot of money in the short term, saves billions in the long run. quinn: its importance to my opponent wants to privatize pensions in illinois. a very risky 401(k) plan that has $100 billion hole. i don't think that's the right way to go in illinois. the provision in our constitution protecting pensions is a good one. we did pass a bipartisan pension reform bill that isolate but it will be before the courts, supreme court ultimately and they will make a decision on the regarding our constitution. i want to go back to wanting my opponent persist in this dating. we have raised funding for education despite all the hard times, we have raised a fund for classroom education almost $500 million, half a billion dollars. we have paid attention and that's every single year for teachers and all public employees. governors before we did not do

this. i've done it, i've complied with the long-term investing in a pension our pension system properly and that's why that's the best way to go to move illinois forward. >> governor, as the supreme court does find that pension law that you did sign unconstitutional because of that clause, should it be removed from the constitution? quinn: my dad taught me don't take an aspirin into you get a headache. we don't have a decision in the supreme court are i don't think it's wise at all to take something about the legislature and i feel our constitutional provisions before the court asked. if the court acts in a way that is contrary, we will take the necessary steps. but the bottom line is where to deal with liability problems that i inherited. i didn't create this problem but on solving the problem by putting the proper amount every year into the pensions. >> statewide question number one on the governor for the about us if the men wage in illinois for

adults over the age of 18 should be raised to $10 an hour by january 1. the congressional budget office says that a minimum-wage up $10.10 an hour would cause the nation to lose a minimum of 500,000 jobs. you describe yourself as a jobs cover. it's about question is a privilege seek a change at the 10-dollar level? why or why not? quinn: that study are talking about, they speculated it would be a job loss. there've been other studies, very solid academic studies that indicate that raising the minimum wage is the best way to help create jobs and help our economy. 70% of our economy is consumer spending. i favor raising the minimum wage. i got it done in 2003. we will do it again in 2015, genuine. there's a ref and on about the i signed into law to give people the chance to vote for a $10 an

hour minimum wage. my opponent all across illinois went across the state sank eliminate the minimum wage. a person taking in $53 million a year running around illinois sank eliminate the minimum wage. he is an against minimum-wage. i am adamantly for raising the minimum wage but it's the best way to thousands of people who do our jobs, work hard, living from paycheck to paycheck. let's give them a raise. that's the best way to of social justice. rauner: pat quinn has been governor for six years and she's had a super majority of his party in the general assembly, and he has to increase the minimum wage in that period of time. if you were serious about that he could've gotten it done. he is playing political football with peoples lies and with our economy. here's the way to do with a minimum-wage. illinois today is not competitive. we need to grow our economy. we need jobs. pat quinn has been a failure on

jobs under his administration. we become the lowest state of job growth in the midwest. we are failing on jobs. there are two ways to be competitive and raise minimum wage which i support. one is to increase the national minimum-wage about illinois to we are all at the same level and below is more competitive. today our society the other way is to raise the minimum wage over time as high as $10 but do it in conjunction with pro-business reforms, tax reduction, workers comp and tort reforms will small business owners can afford to pay a higher minimum-wage, competitiveness is there and that will help all families. >> i have a two-parter as well. mr. rauner, you like to point to success of republican governors and other states, but chances governor sam brownback cut income taxes and never to make the state more business friendly and now two years later job growth lags than the rest of the courage and the state has had to cut funding to explain that your proposal to lower taxes and

cover state revenues would have different outcomes in illinois. and governor quinn, you rejected your opponents proposal to extend the sales taxes on services even though a sales tax on services could be crafted to avoid being recessive. i'm stuck, regressive. why do you post that many of party see as a needed change to make the states revenue structure stable in the future? rauner: governor quinn today is playing political football with this issue as well. in the passive support a sales tax on services -- >> i would like you to address the cuts in kansas and the revenue. rauner: exactly. i don't agree with the tax policies that were put in place in kansas but i don't agree with the. i would not do that. what i've advocated is a look at our entire tax code and we reform our entire tax code can make us more competitive. we got to grow our economy. what we can solve our problems by doing is just raising taxes

on families like our current governor has been doing. we need to grow. we need a pro-growth tax code. rapidly growing states have a broad-based and low rates. but i believe we should work our rates down but broaden the base. we should expand the sales tax to include some services that are more business oriented rather than on low-income working families. we need to close tax loopholes. we need to modify all the tax code to become pro-growth to get the revenue we need. quinn: i believe taxes should be based on ability to pay. the principle as old as the bible. nobody likes paying taxes. i don't think we should have a tax system based on ability to pay. my opponent in proposing this service tax, including garbage picker, everyday people have to pay a tax on garbage pickup where they adopt a child, how they will made. those are unfair taxes.

the folks are millionaires and billionaires always want to shift the burden onto everyday people. my opponent's plan will give himself a $1 billion tax-cut. it will shift the burden onto everyday hard-working people who will have to pay a tax on the garbage picker. that's not right. we ought to have a fair tax system that invest in education. my opponent's plan will cut $4 billion out of our education budget. how do you grow jobs if you're cutting one out of six teachers jobs in illinois? and slashing classroom spending all across our state. our kids need to learn and we need a proper education budget funded by the income tax. >> governor quinn, your campaign supporters have suggested mr. rauner is trying to buy the black vote. for example, with a $19 donation to a credit union on chicago's south side. how is that any different than and that's in taxpayer-funded construction programs, for

example, our programs like the neighborhood recover initiative? quinn: i believe in competing for everyone's boats come and go in this state. right you're not far from washington illinois and i've been to washington illinois on many occasions after a terrible turn in that demolished 1100 homes in this area. i think it's important our state rise to the occasion to help people in dire need in a disaster in this case. with respect to the violence that occurred in chicago, it's important we act. i think we have to make sure and i will never apologize for making sure we help keep families safe and we keep kids on the right track to i was glad with the jackie robinson west little league success. it should when parents work together with the kids for a common good, rate things can happen. it's important we invest in those kinds of things. afterschool programs. weekend programs for kids. summer programs.

>> mr. rauner, can you explain why you haven't made an investment to the southside community federal credit union before running for office? if you are elected as governor do you plan on continuing to use your pocketbook to make those sort of investments? what do you say to those that could be a conflict of interest? rauner: it's not a conflict at all. i'm using my personal money. pat quinn has been trying to buy the election using taxpayer money both in his and her eye program and his other programs he's been right on a seat using taxpayer money to try to get voters influence. it's wrong but that's politics in illinois. my wife and i have been very involved in the african-american community in and around chicago and other cities for decades. we are major donors to early childhood education into black community. charter schools in the black community, teacher training in the black community. i personally donated to find a full professorship at morehouse

college in atlanta, georgia, which is dedicated to educating african-american lead throughout the united states. my wife and i care deeply about the african-american community here in illinois and around the u.s. we've been involved for decades. it's not politics. i've learned about this particular credit union o on ona camping trip. someone brought up to me at an event. it sound like a good program and i made an investment and i'm honored to have done it. >> in talking to business leaders across the area, they express much more concerned over worker's compensation and the tax rate. with that in mind, to reduce worker compensation costs would you support a bill which establishes a state fund to create a competitive marketplace for employers to purchase cheaper insurance policies as 20 of other states have done? tress . rauner: , i've driven 145,000 while in virtually every county meeting with tens of thousands of voters. small business owners have told me their number one problem is the workers compensation system. it's broken.

it's full of abuse. i will make it a priority of governor to drive real workers comp reform. that concept you've laid out in your question is interesting. i don't know enough to say for sure that that is a program i will pursue but it sounds very appealing based on what i've heard about so far. i know we can drive workers comp reform a look at what other well-run states do. our politicians in springfield, including governor quinn, said they did workers comp reform of years ago and around it was it wasn't real workers, before. it reduce rates a small bit but even today, the ceo of caterpillar who is trying to rest with whether to build its headquarters here has told me workers comp costs caterpillar five times as much more today in illinois, five times as much as over in indiana. they are growing the jobs out of illinois. quinn: we -- illinois retail

merchants. the reforms enacted have reduced the amount of money paid for workmen scop by our business by $450 million, 19% reduction be we are interest in working more but i got that done. my opponent talks. we get done. i want to go back to one think he just mentioned about the african-american community and his care for them. he has 51 executives at his investment firm. not one, not one was an african-american. i don't think that's right but i think if you really care about the community of illinois, everybody, nobody left out. nobody should be denied an opportunity to work in investment from. there are many well qualified african-americans but i think it's important we understand our state goes forward because of our diversity, because we are strong. we have a diverse population and i don't think it's right to leave folks behind. that's exactly what my opponent

did. >> witches were a competitive marketplace for cheaper policy? quinn: we need to look at is having as much competition and workers comp as possible. i've directed are drugged up insurance to try to ensure these insurance companies are truly competitive. the more competition the best rates we can get. >> mr. rauner, would you support that? rauner: it sounds i could very appealing program. i've got to study and give a definitive answer but i think so but that could make sense. >> governor quinn come you supported cuts to the medicaid system that was supposed to say billions but the changes have failed to meet th this painting targets but we mr. rauner has said he opposes the expansion under the a formal correctness some states -- how would you ensure that the poor in illinois have access to medical coverage while also keeping medicaid from squeezing out funding for other areas such as education? quinn: we did have to

restructure our medicaid program. it was difficult to we passed a bipartisan bill. it was able to make great economies. this past year we are able to restore a number of the programs to our medicaid program because our economy is doing much better. i did sign the bil bills to make sure that we got money from washington to ensure many more people in illinois and our health care system under the affordable care act the 685,000 people have received health coverage under the affordable care act which i support. my opponent would've denied that funding. that's what he said. he would have said to thousand of thousands, hundreds of thousands of families who now have health insurance under this law that he would deny that just the way they did down in texas and over in indiana and wisconsin. >> how do you plan to keep the cost in check ask. quinn: the reforms have done exactly that. they're very good reforms that

keep the cost to a reasonable level. at the same time we receive more money from washington to cover more people. i think it's important we have far-reaching health care coverage as we can. my opponent would've denied that. he would've denied 400,000 people -- transform mr. rauner needs an opportunity to answer that. rauner: i would not have expanded medicaid under the of for look at the way it was done. it's the law now. it's here. i don't advocate rolling it back. what i do advocate is restructuring the program to eliminate the waste and fraud. it is a stunningly mismanaged program under governor quinn. i met with nurses who work inside the department and deal with medicaid. they have told me they wanted to meet in private because they were afraid they would get fired for sharing with me what's going on. the waste and fraud and our medicaid program is out of control. some of the came to light when there was a private investigation that was required under the legislation to check on a moment abuses in the

system. they were finding as many as 40% of enrollees were not entitled to get benefits. governor quinn stopped that private investigation. there is waste and fraud that is costing taxpayers huge amounts of money. we need a good medicaid program. i support a substantial high quality well-funded medicaid program but we don't have that in illinois. what we have is massive mismanagement. >> certainly both of you like to tout your accomplishments and, frankly, i don't blame you. some of my colleagues in the press, however, have done a good job i think of displaying some of your failures in both of your leadership positions. you as a ceo and you as ceo of the state what is your biggest regret or mistake? rauner: i have just terrific pride in our accomplishments. the problem is in business, not every company succeeds. that's unfortunate.

i wish that were true but that's free enterprise system. some companies succeed in something. venture capital, helping start and grow business is risky. not every company succeeds. unfortunaunfortuna tely, occasionally, rarely some executive engage in bad behavior, unethical behavior. that's unfortunate but that's a fact of life. where we found it to be true we tried to take action to correct it and punish those responsible. over all our track record of success is destiny. one of the top track records of an investment firm in the united states. we've invested on behalf of illinois pensions and a 22 other states for the attention. we generated well over double the stock market returns but we were honored to work for teachers where we generate almost 25% confident annually. we've also managed money for corrections officers, police officers and government workers and the done an outstanding job in generating retirement money. quinn: i am not perfect but i don't think any human being is.

if i have one regret along the way as governor, i suspended the pay of legislators and my own pay in order to try to get important fiscal reforms that moved our state forward. if i had to do over again i would have done it earlier. i think it would have saved more money. it's important always to take responsibility of anything that's going in the wrong direction in state government. you got to take responsibility. you've got out, put in reforms. i've tried to do that in every challenge i've had. i think that's the way to go. by contrast my opponent never takes responsibility for the things that went wrong in his empire. the nursing home scandal when people lost their lives, $1 billion worth of verdicts for wrongful death of seniors who were killed in the nursing home's. all he does is come up with a money. he never took responsibly, never do anything to straighten it out. i think it's important to understand that six of his

executives are now in jail for their bad behavior. >> what current state services does illinois need to reduce, eliminate them or privatize at a savings in order to help the state meet its fiscal constraints? and please be specific. quinn: privatizing, i think he got to be careful. i honor the work of our public employees. my opponent in the primary demonizing public employees. i on all of those who are firefighters and police officers, all of those who work for the public, teachers. certainly not for privatizing our teachers. and all this about the charter school but i believe in public education. i think that's a we should invest in. i think it's very, very important to understand that tonight my opponent who is a billionaire who took in $53 million in just one year, he's not for raising the income tax at all on millionaires like himself. instead what he wants is to have the same tax rate that he has

for a minimum-wage worker and he wants to reduce the minimum wage spend what service would you cut? quinn: we've got a number of services, $5 billion of debt in our state since i've been governor in the budget. our budget level today is at 2008 levels. at the same time i've had to close 50 facilities and for difficult. my opponent goes around the state insists reopen the facility. that's no way to save money. rauner: unfortunate under governor quinn, illinois has been one of the worst run states in america. we have rampant this spending of taxpayer money. massive waste in the system. one large example is the department of central management services. it's a bureaucracy that is supposed to run state government. even governor quinn's own people, his own staff have said there's over half a billion dollars of wasted spending in the procurement process inside central management services. governor quinn doesn't do anything about that because that's part of the cesspool of

cronyism and patronage that is so endemic inside our state government. he relies on that for his election, relies on them for campaign cash. that's rampant throughout the department. he's been caught increasing patronage hiring illegally inside the department of transportation, changing patronage and cronyism corruption can save a lot of money. experts estimated we pay over half a billion dollars in a corruption tax because of the type of bad behavior of the quinn and rod blagojevich has engaged in. >> changing to retirement benefits as i can should the state continue on the current pension payment schedule, or should the state consider extending it into the future to lower the amount it has to pay? and should instead consider lowering the funding level from 100% target to 70-80% target to ease the strain on the budget? rauner: could you repeat?

>> should stay continued on the current pension payment plan that we have asked for as the schedule, or should we consider extended can refinance into debt and taking some of the pressure off? and should look to when a person funding level or should stay consider reducing to a 70-80% funding level to ease the strain on the budget? rauner: i believe the right answer for the pension is to create a second pension plan for the future. that's constitutional. it's fair to the workers and the taxpayers back but benefits aside, the way we make payments now she would change that? rauner: here's the problem. the politicians in illinois have been playing kick the can down the road for decades. we shouldn't do that anymore. it's not fair to the workers. it's not fair to the retirees but it's not fair to the taxpayers. what our politicians do is make promises to workers, then don't honor the promises by paying him. we've got to change the.

i believe a fair thing to do is freeze the current pension system, honor the obligations that have been a crude and they didn't you create a second pension plan. the second plan can have options for employees. more defined contribution, more defined benefit but it should be very different than the one that's been historically done. more affordable, more flexible, more employee control. that's the key. quinn: i have paid attention to every single year i've been governor but on the first governor in anybody's memory to do exactly that. previous governors did not pay the proper and that's why the liability grew to $100 billion. we passed the pension reform bill. i signed it. it's now before the courts. this time we paid the appropriate amount every year. i am not for what my opponent is advocating. when you read between the lines and read all the details, he wants a risky 401(k) system that does not have any proper funding, that will cause great

harm to public employees, and the people of illinois. that whole crowd in wall street that cause such great havoc american economy, they would was coming up with these schemes. >> should we consider the schedule in which . quinn: on comply with that right now and i pay the proper amount every year in order to be actuarially centered on the first governor to do. i think of to do that for our public employees. but also for the taxpayers. we enacted some reforms in a bipartisan way that will be the best for the people of illinois. >> governor, i know that you propose what you say a balanced budget and the relies on an extension of the current income tax levels but that didn't happen. you yourself called the spending plan submitted by the general assembly in complete and senate postpones the tough decisions. mind is a small veto, you signed into law nonetheless. why did you not veto it or

college of us wen in the back io special session? didn't have anything to do with his campaign for reelection? quinn: the budget is 300 safety five days a year exercise. we had to go back to the budget for this fiscal year after november 19 when they resume in springfield. what i wanted to do was make sure our schools are open and everyone was receiving proper health care. we had to start the budget year on july 1. i believe that are budget that i proposed to legislature is the best one for illinois. the three credit rating agency said it was affordable, reasonable, it will pay our bills, properly invest in education and health care, help our veterans and it would get illinois to a good spot. using the income tax to fund our government is the fairest way to go. my opponent has a tax on services like picking up your garbage. that's what billionaires do. you take tax breaks for themselves, 1 million-dollar tax break in his case and he puts

attacks were an everyday people. that's not right. in the course of this budget year we've got to get a fair budget to properly invest in schools. >> feel free to address some what the governor has said, but outside of the own campaign nobody seems to build to make the number of india budget blueprint at a. you said you want to give more money to state parks, education, higher education. while at the same time cutting revenues and pulling back the income tax to 3% in four years. let's try again. make that add up, please. rauner: we've got to set our goals and our priorities and then managed to do. we need a competitive tax code. we will get there. we need to reduce the income tax. we will get there. we need to grow our economy which is a single most important thing we can do and we are failing miserably under pat quinn to grow our economy and create jobs. nothing else will get fixed

unless we are growing and creating jobs. i will drive the. i've been a business builder my whole career. here's the tragedy in illinois. we have been control now for 12 years by a group of chicago machine politicals, pat quinn, rod blagojevich and mike madigan. those three, that trio of terrible government has control our government for 12 years. it's led to massive debt, deficits, unemployment, brutally high taxes, the worst run state in america. we need big change. we have to combat this on a bipartisan basis with outside the box thinking and drive real results. we can't fix our problems just by raising income taxes on the families of illinois. that won't solve our problem. >> mr. rauner can you propose reopening prisons. governor quinn, you have closed some prisons. broadbenrod and todd the openind closing, what do you propose to

truly rehabilitate inmates in order to reduce recidivism? rauner: so, we need to reform our correction system in illinois. it is broken and it is badly mismanaged under governor quinn just as most departments of our government have been under pat quinn. we have a tragic situation in illinois. we have unsafe prisons. we have correction officers with their life and personal safety at risk. we have inmates with their personal safety at risk because we haven't properly staffed and invest in a correction system. we also incarcerate nonviolent offenders very often here and we do a very poor job relative to other states for providing alternatives routes to deal with nonviolent offenders, ways they're more likely to receive help and avoid falling back into lives of crime and helping them find ways to get back in society and be productive citizens. we don't think outside the box.

we don't do good innovative programs like other states do. we've got to change your system. out of quinn is getting on this. our corrections officers are at risk. our inmates are at risk. quinn: union representatives direction office have endorsed me, not him. with respect to our corrections system, we have reduced the number of repeat offenders to one thing we is is what's called adult redeployed. we invest in the front and try to keep people out of our state prisons, alternative ways of punishing people for bad behavior so they'll have a life of crime. we have invested in that. i did and are budget. in addition when people do come out of prison, we have programs of reentry to help people have made and the fans paid their debt to society can get a job, go on the straight path and we've been able to do that as well. we have invested great in that. i signed bills to give employers a tax credits to hire ex-offenders. we've had expungements of

nonviolent crimes don't people get a job. i think those are very important things. iin the arab juveniles will greatly reduce the number of juveniles who are incarcerated by using these creative techniques. my opponent is wrong. he has proposed a budget that would make radical cuts in our corrections budget. >> moderator: the candidates are not going to make closing statements. the order of which was determined by the earlier drone. governor quinn will make the first closing statement and but i appreciate the opportunity to be. i thank everyone for listing. i particularly thank all those who volunteer for important causes in illinois. we are near washington, illinois, and i was so inspired by the people who volunteer to help folks get back on their feet after that terrible tornado. the heart of illinois, the heart of america is the heart of the volunteer. our state we met lots of people volunteer to change direction. when i came into office we're going in the wrong direction. we are now going in the right direction. we had our unemployment go down faster than any other time in 30

years, straight declines in the unemployment. jobs are up. that's what we want to have. my opponent is someone who is a job outsourcing -- outsourcer. he is opposed to raising the minimum age and he wants to cut our education budget. i don't think that's the right way to go for illinois. i want to of a future for our kids. but i want to invest in early childhood education. in k-12, and opportunity colleges, and our four year universities and in our scholarships. that's the right way to go. rauner: i'm honored to be here with you tonight. again, thank you for all of you here in peoria for hosting us. it's about to be. i look forward to going to work for you. i'm here because i love illinois passionately. this is home. we raise our six children he. i was born and raised. i have built businesses here. i love illinois. and i can't stand to see what pat quinn and rod blagojevich have done to our home. our homes are at risk. the future for our children is

in jeopardy under the failed leadership, the corruption, cronyism, the patronage, the job losses, the burden high taxes. we are failing as a state and i won't let it happen. we need bipartisan solution. we need real leadership. we can make illinois the greatest state in the greatest nation on earth. and i can drive that process. the people of illinois are fantastic. we have the hardest working families, the most fertile farms. we have the best location to what are the heart of america here. we can drive with strong leadership that solves problems on a bipartisan basis and brings a real work ethic and integrity back to our government. i'm excited to go to work for you. >> moderator: this a terrific studio audience but you've helped to applause. let's give a big round of applause to both of our candidates. [applause]

>> moderator: thank you again, governor quinn and republican nominee bruce run at the we appreciate your time. we want to thank our panelists. this program is a production of illinois public broadcasters in partnership with the league of women voters of illinois. thanks for watching, and goodnight from peoria. ♪ >> our campaign 2014 coverage continues with a week full of debates. tonight live at eight eastern, the wisconsin governor's debate.

>> in illinois 17th congressional district, a debate between the member who currently holds the seat and the member used to have the job. democratic congresswoman cheri bustos and former representative bobby schilling. the one term republican lost his 20 don't really bid to cheri bustos by 19,000 votes. the district is in the northwestern part of illinois. the rothenberg political report roll call rates the race as a democrat. this is about half an hour. >> it's the big myth to -- midwest rematch. >> it will be a very, very fiery campaign. >> make it promise i will continue to fight for jobs. >> cheri bustos and then she'd be in 2012 former congressman bobby schilling spent it did allow for me to step back, i call my two-year break. >> my enthusiasm is as much as

was were first announced this race and we are ready to get going. i want to make things happen. >> they return to the same studio there in two years ago for the only debate in the 2014 election. >> your voice, your vote. the 17th congressional district debate brought you by wqad and to dispatch. >> good evening. i'm immoderate for tonight's 30 minute discussion of issues concerning the 17th congressional district in illinois. tonight we welcome the two candidates running for this western illinois district. income is democrat cheri bustos, elected in november 2012. prior to her term in congress she worked as a newspaper reporter, work in the health care industry answered on the city council. she is married and the mother of three sons. that challenge is bobby schilling, who serve in congress and 2011 to january 2013, best known as the owner of the quad cities pizza business. he worked in insurance and

investment fields and data container company. before the. bobby schilling is married with attention. -- 10 children. spent visiting run on public television. i expect full coverage in the dispatch rock island newspaper plus right now you can follow along on twitter at hashtag 17 debate. each candidate's campaign staff agree to some ground rules to tonight's discussion of issues but the topic of our questions and most of the questions themselves come from our news aid viewers, the readers of the paper. each candidate will get a minute to answer the question with the opponent in getting one minute to give their views. after that i can ask a follow-up question to clarify an issue. each candidate would get a 90-second opportunity for closing state at the end of tonight's program. moments ago we had a point tossed to the website if