.. is the try to do too much and as a result doesn't do very many names very well, so i will give it to the state of colorado to make a decision. >> moderator: no opinion at all? mr. romanoff. romanoff: i support the law

enforcement of colorado because they believe that will improve public safety. if we know who's driving and make sure we can identify them. >> moderator: element, we have a brief amount of time and i have a feeling that you are both eager to do that. so let me ask you come a brief answer, incentives, why do you think so many people hate congress and what is the number one thing you can do about it? mr. romanoff. romanoff: the main reason so many americans are disenchanted with congress is because they see politicians in congress who are fighting for them. they're trying to concentrate the benefits at the top and not the middle-class to suffer. when i get to the u.s. house of representatives in january, i will do everything in my power to grow the economy by strengthening the middle class, ensuring equal pay for equal work, advancing transition to a clean energy economy. and they making higher education more affordable, which is the real ticket to the vendor class. not by cutting programs, not

allowing interest rates to double and not by opposing commonsense measures. >> moderator: you get equal time on this questions. why do so many people hate congress must number one thing you can do about it? coffman: i am in a group of members of congress who've come together, republicans and democrats of who wants to bridge the partisan divide in washington d.c. and i hope that group grows. i am proud to be a part of that and i've been able to demonstrate, to reach across the aisle and find solutions to the important challenges that have been before congress. i was a part of the reform for the veterans administration that the president signed into law on august 8th. i in fact just past the reform measure from the house with unanimous vote in the senator affairs committee and by unanimous consent on the house floor to reform the construction practices for the veterans administration so we can get our

hospital built here in aurora, colorado and other hospitals across the country. that's the bipartisanship in washington d.c. >> moderator: that's roughly equal time. to ask questions to one another we ask you to limit to 20 seconds or so for time to respond. mr. romanoff. romanoff: whitish about millionaires tax breaks will force the middle-class families to pay up more? >> it does with special-interest reductions. in order to have a lower marginal rate to benefit all businesses and grow the economy. and benefit the middle-class to increase in jobs and economic opportunities. >> moderator: mr. coffman, your question for mr. romanoff. coffman: three weeks ago you for a public auction. you are for government run health care system and i understand three weeks ago you changed and now you are just for obamacare. being pro-obamacare, i want to ask you a question, would you

repeal the vote to repeal the individual mandate of washington d.c.? romanoff: this is what they both look like. i wonder what the label would be. we had to be fixed in the affordable care act, not repealing it and allowing companies to discriminate on the basis of preexisting conditions are charging women more than men are throwing people to the road when they get sick. that doesn't make health care more affordable and it certainly doesn't make a more secure. but we need is for democrats and republicans to take on the insurance industry, hold them accountable, lower rates and help our families have access to the health care they need. coffman: the answer is no. romanoff: i just gave you the answer. >> moderator: we have time for one more question here. to reserve you actually think your opponent has her from when it comes to isis or can we put vista that bed is what differentiates you to? coffman: will tell you what, i

am proud of my military service. in 1972 i came home from iraq -- in 2006 the united states marine corps. i worked in a worked in iraq, i volunteered to work in the western euphrates river valley and area that is now fallen to isis. i think at the end of the day that there is no solution absent a political solution whereby we've got the pressure to shia dominated government in iraq at that data to reach out to the sunnis and if they feel they have a pass into the government, i believe we can prevail ultimately and defeats isis. >> moderator: to be clear, we want to get equal time. coffman didn't answer the question. is there a difference? is there any daylight here? romanoff: this might be where we agree. we recognize, all americans

should date september present a grave threat, not just to the middle east, be a security interest as well. here's the difference. coffman: can i finish? romanoff: it's only in washington to get arrested for agree with your opponent. the truth is what we need is a coalition that includes not only nato allies, but arab nations as well. we had to recognize isis is a terrorist organization is not an entity that you can negotiate with, not a threat to contain. it is a threat that has to be eliminated. i am glad the administration is hoping a coalition around the world. but i recognize the u.s. remains the indispensable nation. >> moderator: it appears you guys agree, perhaps not completely agreeably. we now go to the closing statements. each candidate will have 90 seconds. we flipped a coin earlier. mr. romanoff elected heads.

coffman come in the floor is yours. coffman: i want to thank you, channel nine to put our views to the congressional district. i am proud of my record. being the only member of congress to serve in both iraq wars, being the only member of the colorado delegation to have served in the military, to bring that experience to the congress and united states coming to the armed services committee where i've been able to shape policy, to make sure we maintain a military that is second to none but the same time going toe to toe with the pentagon brass to make sure we cope with that of the budget to serve as the leader, a national leader in veterans issues to make sure that this nation honors its obligations to the men and women, the sacrifice so much for this nation and to put forward reforms that are now passed into law. lastly, as a former small

business owner or for anyone to balance the budget, run an organization efficiently enough to make a profit, quality is not in washington d.c., that i'm able to bring the experience into the congress of the united states, to fight to cut the regulatory red tape strangling our small businesses in hurting their ability to create jobs and grow this economy. i'm very proud of my work in the congress as well as being a member of no labels, the republicans who come together to bridge the partisan divide. i ask for your vote november november 4th. >> moderator: thank you, congressman. mr. romanoff. romanoff: thank you, mr. coffman, respect or service. it is difficult to washington now by virtue of forced common ground for the scorched earth campaigns we have seen, even just tonight. what we need in washington right now more than anything men and

women of goodwill in both parties who were more interested in solving problems than just pointing fingers or picking fights. the biggest problem with god right now is the struggle of so many families in our district are facing to stay or join the middle-class. unfortunately, they have a congressman -- we have a conversation in this district who is making the problem worse. what they need instead is an effort to make higher education more affordable, not more expensive. when expensive. we need an effort to ensure equal pay for equal work instead of subjecting women to 70 cents on the dollar for veterans and what we truly need is to advance our transition to a clean energy economy by reducing our reliance on fossil fuel and accelerating our research and development in sun, wind, biomass and geothermal energy source. you can't get there a few tonight the nature of climate change. the good news is they are creating thousands of good

middle-class jobs right here in colorado by taking that approach and we need to do the same in washington d.c. that's exactly what i'll do when i get there in january with your health. >> moderator: mr. romanoff, thank you. we hope about join us for final debate coming up thursday by the 7:00 p.m. on 1120. also one channel 20 coming exclusive denver race between senator mark udall and republican challenger corey gartner. please join us tonight were news at 9:00 and 10:00 for detailed analysis of what we heard here tonight. thank you, gentlemen for being here. thank you for being here. [applause]

>> hi, i am scott walker. i am pro-life. there is no doubt in my mind the decision of whether or not too many pregnancy is an agonizing one. that is why i support legislation to increase safety and provide information for anyone considering her options. the bill leaves the final decision to implement and her doctor. reasonable people can disagree on this issue. our priority is to protect the health and safety of all wisconsin citizens. >> midwest is coming back. >> the indian economy is superb and significantly. >> minnesota's numbers are down in job numbers are off. >> economic cover is on track to outpace all 50 states. >> in wisconsin, scott walker cut taxes for the education and we felt that last-minute job

growth. >> wisconsin lags behind the country when it comes to job growth. >> tax cuts for the top, dead last in job. scott walker is not working for you. >> hi, i'm scott walker. things were reforms, the average family will have an extra $322 to spend. bubble you do with your savings? >> will buy more clothes and school supplies. >> 96 gallons of gas. >> we're taking a trip to see the grandkids. >> getting tires for my truck. >> that there were 2700 diapers. >> she wants to wonder reforms and keep your money. i want you to keep it. >> what is $11 by you in wisconsin? how about a pizza. well, scott walker thinks $11 by your vote. under his tax plan, the average wisconsin taxpayer got just $11 a month. but corporations have $610 million in tax cuts. millionaires cut at the $1400 per year and you, enjoy your

meal. scott walker, millions for them, pizza for you. >> this week marking the first of two debates in the wisconsin governor's race for republican governor scott walker is seeking a second term. he's being challenged by democrat mary burke. joining us from milwaukee is bill glauber for the milwaukee sentinel. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> two debates on a friday night. why? >> i guess they want to compete against high school football. actually the reason is when they came when they conclude the station to get the air time and frankly that is how the wisconsin broadcasters have done it for years, always a friday night debate. >> the first one taking place in wisconsin at the mayo clinic. explain the format of what you're looking for. >> well, the format is very stilted and it was the 1990s format, some might say 1970s,

a moderator for panelists, questioning to reach of the participants, 92nd answers, 302nd rebuttals, long opening statements in two-minute closing statements at three minutes. it is going to be a stilted venue i thinking about be a lot of soundbites and sort of canvassing errors. >> governor walker faces a recall. he was little to overcome the campaign announced reelection battle. give us a sense of what is happening in this race. but to the polls tell you? >> the polls right now show walker leads by five percentage points among voters outside the margin of error. the race is very close. mary burke, a former trek bicycle corp. executive has come honestly pretty good campaigner, has kept a close and walker is trying to move the needle into the electorate over 50%. he is a well-known commodity. people either love the governor adult like the governor and the

opinion about him is deeply entrenched. so that is why i think this race really hasn't moved much, although walker is finally got the lead late in the going, that it's volatile and could switch. anything can happen here. >> affect the race is so close, does that surprise you? >> no, it doesn't. this is wisconsin and wisconsin is the definition of a purple state, although it is purple and a different hue because you had deeply blue milwaukee and madison and then you have read surrounding those areas. so it is a polarized state and you're always going to have a close race here, whether it is in the statewide races for accepting for the last two presidential elections coming usually close presidential say, too. >> what about mary burke. but as a political background? what is background? with the sugar interface and it

is the walker campaign view her? >> she has been tough to pin down by the walk campaign because she's not really a politician in terms of it has not been her career. as i said, disney executive, philanthropist. she's on the madison school board. this is their first statewide race and it's taken the walker team a lot of time to attack her and sort of drive up her negatives and it's finally happened a little bit when i was a jobs plan she released that turned out to have been sections were used in other plants by other democratic candidates. it was the consultanconsultan ts fall, but the mess landed in burks five. >> let me ask you about one of the issues in his campaign ads, the tax-cut wisconsin voters were able to get come a few hundred dollars a year in the walker campaign pointing walker campaign pointed to by the something positive for voters in the state in the burr campaign saying it is too little too late. >> , while they have been named the burr campaign -- the main issue in this race is god's

other walker promised a 250,000 jobs would be created during his first years in office, his first four years. that hasn't happened. so they are going to be dueling with numbers, labor statistics are in the debate and it's basically a view of the economy. is it working or is that not? >> have been a walker has been talked about is the potential 2016 campaign. clearly he has to get through this campaign first. what are you hearing in wisconsin? >> yeah, he has been looking at the race for a long time. it's been pretty obvious he's done everything you do if you're going to run for president committee know, running around the country giving speeches after the recall election in 2012, has written a book, is definitely a guy that some people see as a person who could unite the republican party. but again, he has to get through this and the other? out there would be if paul ryan

decides to run for president, what would scott walker do, but right now they are really focused on winning the governor's race. >> and most of our good friends, correct? >> walker and bryan have known each other for many years, yes. they are friends. and also head of the national republicans also comes from wisconsin. so you have a 10 connection at the highest reaches of the republican party. >> bill glauber writes for the journal sentinel. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> republican incumbent governor scott walker and his democratic challenger, mary burke debate tonight. c-span will have live coverage at 8:00 eastern.

the >> here are a few of the comments are received from viewers. >> ima nurse and i just watched your segment on c-span regarding our troops found from liberia in regards to the ebola virus and helping out over and helping out over there. and i am okay with that.

however, i really do believe that the only way to keep americans safe is to prevent anybody coming over from liberia to the united states. and we don't have a vaccine yet for this ebola virus and if an american does become and dies because of it, it is just not fair to the american people. it is not doing us a service and keeping us safe. >> im a retired nurse practitioner and i must say and listening to medical experts speak on tv to the american public, i am shocked that one

completely inaccurate comment that with viruses, one concern about contagiousness is a patient in some viruses, the most contagious before that day before they even show sometimes. i have checked with the mouse local college to find that no, no, you are brave. it sounds like even laypeople are confronting even that information. >> what happens to the ebola virus proves so far that the united states is not prepared to deal with is an efficient way. how much security is not efficient, which we've known that and the transportation security administration did not do its job and the hospital to which this man went did not do its job and it seems to me that

people from dangerous areas should be either not allowed to come to the united states or should be quarantined or should be allowed to put in a special to at least undergo a medical examination upon getting off the plane if they are not going to be company. >> on thursday, kbjr tv host of the house district debate between incumbent democrat rick noland, republican candidate stuart mill and green party ray sandman. issue ray sandman. issue is the best leaning democratic. this was courtesy of kbjr and runs about an hour and a half.

>> moderator: good morning welcome everybody. i'm roger working, policy education that was chamber of commerce. i'd like to welcome me to this morning for him morning for an come introduce my friend and fellow moderator, chuck frederick on the editorial editor from the duluth partner. some acknowledges acknowledges mrs. pointer to like to thank the friends of the blue playoffs for the use of their facility. they been generous and gracious in helping us with logistics of these forums. i would also like to thank our friends at the duluth superior area foundation and the speaker peace civility speaker peace stability project. you speaker peace stability project. you reach into the leaflet on the way until they got expectations of behavior this morning and i would like to remind you of those expectations please hold your applause until the end. i will close us out after final

remarks of our candidates and allow you to please express your appreciation. we won't tolerate any shouting or heckling, no disruptive behavior of any kind will be tolerated. chuck, with that, you can start us off. >> moderator: i want to mention you weren't allowed to bring science into the theater. holding up your t-shirt is like holding up a sign away while tolerate that either. i hope you have another shirt on underneath of course. i want to welcome those watching at duluth news tribune.com and my nine on television. i welcome our candidates. thank you for being here. it's a great part of the democratic process. i want to point out the woman in the front row, chris maria is our timekeeper. she's the only one allowed to hold up a sign. she pulled up signs letting you know your 30 seconds left, and at last to speak in your time is that. so keep an eye on her and you've got a good sight line to her. as they mention, candidates answers will be timed. opening statements will be two

minutes. no rebuttal in opening statements. questions will be two minutes and then all the candidates for the chance for a one minute rebuttal at the end will have to end will have two and a half minutes for closing. congressman noland is the incumbent. we gave you the opportunity of option of speaking first or have been the final say at the yen. you are your campaign chose to have the final say, so to decide who would speak in versus morning, we flipped a coin, roger and i did last week and mr. sandman won the honor of speaking at the opening. we will get started. we'll start with opening remarks. two minutes to introduce to you our, what your top priorities are, reasons to run, whatever you want to say for two minutes. mr. sandman, will start review. sandman: thank you. first of all, thank you for being here in the debate. im ray sandman, resident of duluth. i've been here for 25 years. i'm a vietnam vet, tribal elder

and my opening remarks is all of you know i oppose the republican line of the, the call for salt lake mine and for women's equal rights, debt reduction for students with student loans and we will go from there. train to thank you very much. congressman. nolan: at night to begin by thanking the duluth chamber for getting us all together and giving everybody a chance to see the candidates and where they stand on various issues. the choice in my judgment in this election contest really could not be more clear. the fact is, and it is some dispute about, the rich are getting richer in this country and the poor are getting poorer. the middle class is getting crashed. with that, the american dream is getting crashed.

the american dream is not all about everybody making a super millions for a super billy and, there's nothing wrong with that. the american dream is all about having a secure job with a living wage, being able to provide health care for your family, to be comfortable that you'll deal to be secure in your retirement years and be able to send your kids to a good affordable school and get a good education, to belong to a union and to have some money at the end of the week when you are done in your pills to do a little recreation or go to dinner with your family and friends. my dad once told me when i first went public life committee said sun, if you are a couple things i will always be proud of you. one is beyond us, tell the truth. number two, work for the working men and women in this country. be their champion here don't worry about the rich and

powerful. they do a good job of taking care of themselves. this election contest i submitted the question of who argue for. our primary point here in this contest, mr. mills has made it clear who he is for. he has said he wants more tax cuts for super millionaires and billionaires and not the same time he opposes them in greece in the minimum wage. the choice could not be more clear. if you know who you are for, you will know who to vote for this election contest. i thank you for the opportunity. we will have a spirited debate and i assure you i promise you will be civil. looking forward to it. >> moderator: thank you, commerce men. mr. mills. mills: at thank you for having me here today. i'm somewhat of never thought about running for public office. i'm the vice president of our company's mills fleet farm. my dad and uncle started in

1855. it's hard work on the sweat of the brow, reinvested in our business. as a kid i grew up work in the business, cleaning toilets, sweeping floors, about every job they are in the current job now is vice president. one of the many hats you wear in a family business, i should say in a family business you wear many hats in one of those many hats i wear as vice president is looking out for 6000 employees. i'm one of those patches planet in the strata of our company self-insuself-insu red health plan. i have seen firsthand how obamacare has affected make it if we are employees and their families. not only that, i have seen all throughout our part of minnesota how people have been negatively impacted by higher premiums, higher co-pays, they are paying more, getting laughs. congressman nolan what the singer payer model.

every time he gets a good or service, quality is gone down. there's never been exception to that anybody who is studying economics knows that. also, i got outspoken about second amendment issues. congressman nolan gets back to congress and he wants to ban semiautomatic rifles for once he thinks look scary and have government tell us how many will take enough in her time. that earned him a failing grade, an f. rating from the national rifle association. and her family with something camp doctrine. if you complain about something come you get the job to fix it. so that's why i'm here today. i've been complaining about it, slam off the branch, bring skin in the game and i will go to washington. you know what, there's a lot of things we have to stand up for for our part of minnesota and congressman nolan is wrong in so many issues. thank you. >> thank you all very much. you've touched on some of the issues we are going to get to, but we will begin this debate by

talking a little bit about the accusations out there, some of the other charges, some of the maybe negative stereotypes and i'd like you to address those. congressman nolan, this is an a talking. viewers are left as a tea parties are right chimera has spent and you don't even know how to load a gun safely. how to respond to critics who say you've been run in the eighth district. nolan: i'm not sure where to begin there somebody charges and allegations. there's 191 members of the democratic caucus and about 100 of them are judged to be considerably more liberal than i am. the fact is i am a moderate and i do have a right wing tea party -- i guess he is -- he is on your right. i design my last. i guess that that someone probably a little more to the left on me on your right or your

last. you know, i'm just not sure where to go here. bush is take the f. rating from the nra. the nra is primarily financed by gun manufacturers and gun sales people like yourself, stuart. they're interested in primarily trying to sell guns and that is alright. i mean, they've got a right to do that. but it's never been more clear that someone like myself supports the second amendment penetrates to bear arms. some of my most joyful moments, memorable moments have been with a gun in my hand come my hand come out with my dad last weekend, my wife mary and i would duck hunting with her grandson. my wife and i were married 30 years ago. first president thought for her on her birth date was a 20 gauge shotgun. i don't mind telling you she was thrilled to have it, but she did

look a little disappointed you do know, i think she was hoping for something a little more romantic. so when her second birthday i bought her a 30 ought six with a scope on it. stewart, i have been buying my guns and ammunition from your dad and your granddaddy store all of my life and the fact is i support the second amendment for hunting, personal protection, sport shooting. it's a fundamental basic right. but that doesn't mean we can't have some gun safety but background checks. i mean, you support selling guns to people who have been found to be criminally insane or terrorists? >> moderator: congressman, we'll get to the gun issue, but your time is up. mr. mills, and the knock against your millionaire partier doesn't know the challenges faced by most americans. you support tax rates for the rich at the expense of the

middle-class. how you respond to critics who say you won't work for the eighth district. >> i have worked hard all my life and in my business with another choice. it is something we did at a very young age. my father brought during the great depression and work with not only a necessity but a virtue. i know how to work hard, but i've also had a joyful life. we live in a work hard, play hard part of minnesota. and if they want to pick on my hair, it shows they don't want to talk about the issue and there are things facing a private minnesota in the issues are health care, obamacare, our second amendment rights. it is the fact they rick nolan voted for a job killing carbon tax on energy that would strangle our part of minnesota economically and it's also about the fact and i am endorsed by the farm bureau that representative noland voted in favor of the epa u.s. rule. you know, i would love to talk

about these issues, not about my hair and the fact that my family, myself included because of family businesses in about one person one generation, is the entire family and family farms as well. we work hard, reinvest in our businesses and macros jobs and sustains jobs we have. but you know, they want to attack a business. again, we are not publicly traded. there's no private equity money. it's a family business like any other and if they want to attack me and my family for the success and jobs were created, dice their message, their message is picking on my hair. >> moderator: i forgot to ask about your hair. thank you for bringing it out. [laughter] mr. sandman, you have even longer hair. [laughter] sandman: guess i do. >> moderator: what do you say to critics who accuse you of being a one candidate issue, anti-mining and that's about it.

sandman: well, it's a very big issue. critics will call me a lot of different things, but if we don't have water on the we don't have life. when i was a veteran in the service, i have to stand up in front of a bunch of people and i had to raise my hand and i took the oath to protect this country from foreign and domestic. that means a lot to me because i was never released or not a. therefore, i see what is happening up there -- what is going to happen up there in the iron range as a direct attack on america. though come in, they will do their processes and extracting, but then when that is done, they pack up and leave. they don't care about the

people. we don't care about the mining. they don't care about the environment. we have -- we do not have the science to cleanup is still. if you look at history of that type of mining throughout the world, there's never been a faithful and can't for the life of me, i cannot understand how 200 to 500 jobs are worth our future. once that stuff gets into the water, there is no guarantee. it will destroy power to resign, which brings in northern minnesota 200 to $800 million per year. how many jobs will be lost when it leaks? how many? doesn't matter which party you

are. we have to do the right name. both of my opponents here say something completely different. short term. i don't. i look for long term. we need that here in northern minnesota. we need someone after her children and not sure future generations. they may not have been in our time, but 20, 30 years down the road, it will. >> moderator: thank you very much, mr. sandman. in the meantime i'll offer the candidates a chance for one minute rebuttal up to one minute they wanted on these negative stereotypes and responses to it. congressman nolan, would you like one? nolan: yeah, it would. mr. mills said there's never been a federal program that's worked. you might want to get social security.

he met with a look at medicare plan your party flap form cause for party lining. as people agree they were quite well. with regard to clean air, clean water, i remember when they had clean drinking water into duluth because it was so polluted. i remember when mike's endeavors were so polluted air catching on fire and the acid rain was destroying forests and lakes. i don't apologize for supporting clean water and clean air. i've got as good environmental record is anyone in the country and i don't apologize for that. as for the aca, my goodness, you know, people with cancer and heart disease and perkins are now able to get affordable insurance because of that. people are able to keep their kids on their insurance. people are protected from bankruptcy. women are not charged more for the same policy a man is charged for. you really oppose those things and want to repeal those

important advancements? of course there's things that need to be changed in the affordable characters and a lot of good for a lot of people and i heard you say there are not many people who suffer those circumstances. i am here to tell you there are a lot of people who suffer those circumstances and are grateful for the affordable care act. >> moderator: thank you, congressman. mr. mills. mills: first of all, i never said there were many people who have preexisting conditions. i said as plan administrator there a few people i've run across that are not covered by health, which allows you to go from your existing planned to another plan without having to worry about preexisting conditions. i never said there was a federal government program that never worked. matt hudson time, sir? what i said was whenever government has taken over production of a product, good or service, cost his gun up and quality don't. not talking about social security and medicare.

in the past you've said i wanted to abolish social security. absolutely not true. he also said i want to turn medicare into a voucher system. not true. i challenge you to substantiate those remarks without editing my words together out of context. nolan: thank you for the challenge. >> moderator: congressman, can we give mr. sandman a chance, first? to do when you talk about affordable health care, we need to make it affordable. winnie to make it affordable and that bill needs to be taken out and we don't have to start from the bottom up again, but we need to poll for best parts out of there and make it affordable. if you're a single mother with two children were three children, you cannot afford what is being offered now, especially as a minimum-wage job, it needs to be what it says, affordable for everyone. >> moderator: very good to

thank you, roger. >> moderator: thank you am a gentleman. and agriculture complain it is time at the raritan delivering crops to market. discussion of the issue off limits to the question of pipelines. what is your position on safe transport of oil, the backlog of the commodities market and ultimately, where you stand on expansion of pipelines? mr. mills. mills: i support expansion of pipelines. representative nolan supported the keystone pipeline and he got to washington and voted against a bill that would need it that much more closer to that project going forward. he said he was for the sandpaper pipeline in many such is not on this route. if we change the root of the sandpaper pipeline. that pipeline. but happen to do pipeline. but happen to do delayed by four

to five years and across additional $500 million, effectively killing the project. when you look at the $25 million for the tax revenue would come into our part of minnesota that is $4 million a year alone for a king county which needs the tax revenue. i've endorsed by the farm bureau and when i talk to those guys, they have trouble getting their products to market. you know, because the rail cars are loaded with crude coming off, so we need to go forward with the average pipeline. they can do it safely. we need to go forward at the keystone pipeline. our economy depends on it. you cannot do for jobs against the activities that create jobs. >> moderator: thank you. mr. sandman, your opinion, position on oil and pipelines. sandman: that is not a very hard decision for me because for they are proposing to put the pipeline now runs underneath a lot of water, underneath a lot

of wetlands. and if you watch the news, there's been all kinds of toxic spills out there. is the science safe enough? i don't know. i don't think so. i know the president the other day, i may be wrong, talked about getting new tankers. why not split that? some further grain, some for farm products, some for the oil. that definitely reevaluate those routes that you're talking about. i know we need oil, but at what cost? how is it benefiting eyes? mr. mills talks about some tax revenue coming through. will that alloway this bill if we have to clean it up? there some real issues and some

real thought to our environment that we need to think about and start doing about. i am pro at it rather than reactive. we need to sit down at the table with the people involved and bring on these issues and concerns of the people before we make a final decision on it. where i stand right now, no, don't want that pipeline. just like hydraulics. you try pushing more oil through it. eventually it is going to pop somewhere. we need to look at that. thank you. >> moderator: congressmen. nolan: first of all, i've taken the time to study the consequences of rail versus highway versus pipelines. and to be sure, there are

problems associated with each and every one of them and none of them are perfect. but with regard to the sandpaper and with regard to keystone, you know, i do in fact support both of them. but mr. sandman has made a couple of good points here. and i would like to add to that. first of all, there's probably 40,000 miles of pipelines running through minnesota right now. every road has been a pipeline running down it. they are everywhere. i am convinced in my mind the pipelines have to be a part of the next. they do in fact have a lower carbon footprint. they are less prone to danger into accident and if we as americans steal most pipelines as i have proposed in the legislation, they will be even safer. but when you talk about

keystone, the tea party republicans brought a bill before the house of representatives that exempted keystone, a foreign corporation from having to comply with the epa, forgetting the army corps of engineers permits for installation and from eight men's, for having post-financial assurances from this accident inevitably occur. would you have voted for a bill like that? now, and for the the keystone 9% paper, but i want it done right. we have proven that technology and the know-how to do these things to do it right if we have the political will. we can't let foreign corporations come in here willy-nilly and have their way with us. the same can be said of sandpaper. mr. sandman has pointed out that some of that is going through some very fragile soils and waters and we need sandpaper. but we can make sure we protect our precious waters and that is

blamed for. and for pipelines, but i'm for doing at the right way. >> moderator: thank you, congressman. mr. mills. mills: well, been accused of being a tea party are. i'm not sure if that's entirely accurate. nonetheless, the epa and army corps of engineers has been westernizwesterniz ed against projects such as keystone. you know what, after years and years of trying to get it done and if these agencies aren't looking how it can be done, but trying to come up with every reason how it can be stopped coming and know what, it is time to get the people's to take control of their government again from the bureaucracies in the various agencies so we can get projects like a keystone going so we can improve our balance of trade, our balance of payments so that we can become energy independent and then become a net exporter of energy. so whether it is keystone, whether it's probably not,

enough is enough. we have to get on with it. this is jobs come our economy, the worst economic recovery in u.s. history that we various government agencies and bureaucracies for no good reason, all the hoops have been jump through, did teeth have been crossed, let's reunite our economy. >> moderator: mr. sandman, do you care to respond? sandman: not at this time. it doesn't make sense to me. why endanger our wetlands for wet it would bring to west. it does not upset. i always look along mr. mills camp doctrine of leaving a batter. i don't see that happening. we don't have that technology. they really don't.

you know, we really do to look at this dangerous. for the small term benefit, for the long-term effects that lappin. it is not what happened, but when it happens. >> moderator: congressmen, any final thoughts on that? nolan: not to be repetitious, but i grew up in a time of the lakes and rivers was so polluted air catching on fire. i would get on in the spring and mirror toilet paper and and turns hanging on every branch and that was the good stuff. that wasn't the toxic stuff. and then you had to haul drinking water into duluth and acid rain was destroyed in our service and lakes. they say you've got to have jobs or environment. you can't have both. guess what, we had the brains,

we have the technology to do both and to do both we must. our waters are precious. our jobs are precious. our mining, manufacturing is precious. rebuilding the middle class is precious and with regard come you don't rebuild the middle class by giving tax cuts to the super rich billionaires and fighting against the minimum wage with people who have to work two or three jobs. that is not restoring the american dream. >> perhaps the most polarizing issue in northern minnesota has been the copper nickel mining. people say they are dragging their feet. their folks that they can't

possibly done safely. gentlemen, where do you stand on copper nickel mining? can mining? can it be done save? to have any confidence and not at all? mr. sandman, and this is your issue. we'll start with you, sir. sandman: no, you cannot be done safely at this time. we do not have the science for that. so i opposed that wholeheartedly because i know what it can do and what it will do. that's very british columbia 5 billion gallons of toxic waste into the river. the technology to mining is proposing for containment for that polluted water. it is already in the mine into the watershed. so i don't support that at all.

but what i do support is the northern lights passenger train. i think my opponents will agree we need to get money by the congress. we need to stop giving subsidies to the corporations. we need to have the corporations start paying their darn taxes. now we can redirect some of that funding into northern minnesota so that we can go on with other projects that are less environmental deadly. and we talk about 200 to 300 jobs. northern lights we were talking about the other day, 13,800 jobs for the eighth district. that is something to look at.

temporarily, but three, four years, maybe something else will happen. we don't need that up there. >> moderator: thank you very, very much. representative nolan on precious metals mining. nolan: first of all, i grew up on the iron range. binding is a huge part of what we do and who we are. our economy has been set up years based on timber, tackett made, to race him. nobody enjoys the great outdoors more than we do what peter, our water, our forests, lakes, we treasure them. that is why we live here. but i reject the argument because something has never been done before safely that he can be done. it was never an internal combustion engine. there is never a catalytic

converter or there is never a scrubber on a coal-fired power plant to scrub the sulfur out of band. we didn't have a scrubber is to take all the toxic waste out of our lakes and rivers and our streams. i submit -- i submit that we now have the technology, we now have the brainpower. all we have to h the result and the will to do it right. on your way here, my opponents suggest we should do away with all of these epa regulations. rules and regulations, which by the way have clean up our air and water. in a little over one generation can increase life expectanc america from about 47 to about 90. one of the greatest achievements in the history of humanity. no, i submit that we must be compliant with good, sound

environmental rules and regulations and we have the technology to move ahead with my name, ferrous and non-ferrous mining. these are minerals badly needed. is a huge part of my jobs, economy, culture and would need to protect our environment just as well because that too is a critical, essential part of our economy and culture. >> moderator: thank you very much, mr. mills. sounds like there might be some common ground here. someone no, not really. i am for it. it is amazingly well-thought-out. after nine years there's a reason we should be going forward with it. obviously mr. sandman does against it and we're not sure we are representative. in the last election cycle with acid jack andersen for their support of the strategic minerals that and went and voted for it. nathan manus in the duluth news

tribune had a scathing guest editorial, which outlined representative nolan's flip-flops, almost most recently truby and they were talking about how he is hedging his support of polymaths and the daily cost to a scathing editorial, complete with a video, outlining representative nolan's flip-flops. so he can say he is for it right now, but where's he going going to be tomorrow? all of this stuff is online. it did not, due to, did not, due to. look it up for yourself. thank you. >> moderator: thank you. one minute, mr. sandman, if you would like. sandman: we don't have the science for cleanup when it happens, simple as that. i look at what is happening now without them i'd been there. we have the metal mercury symbol bother in the fish are ready. one in 10 babies in northern

minnesota show a higher elevation of that battle in their blood. our babies, what will happen when this happens? it is not if, it is one. it is when it happens we are the ones going to suffer. our children are the ones that are going to suffer. it won't affect us at home. when you go down to generations of elbow. and if their record is so great, why are all the accidents happening with this type of mining around the world? it is unsafe because we cannot take care of it when it happens. thank you. >> moderator: congressmen, one minute, please. someone i have always supported polymath. i have always supported my name and i have always supported doing it the right way and compliance with good clean air,

water, health and safety standards. obviously, you take issue with the standards and you take issue with the mining. my issue has been consistent. it has been clear. it is on both sides of the issue and never say you are darn right it is. i am for doing it the right way. with regard to the technology, minnesota has been a leader in cleaner technology. they make high pressure pumps for companies like water engineering. we make the films that go into reverse osmosis. with regard to wild rice, i've been picking wild rice all my life. i picked rice this year. the rice wasn't very good either, skip. but we got a few pounds. you can say, give us your standards. you want to under 50 parts, 10 parts, zero parts, we will buy the filtration and we will give you whatever standard you feel is important to protect water and protect the race.

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>> >> this problem is not fixed yet. this is not over with. there is a great deal more we need to do to make sure everybody pays. and the conservative notion. major betty pays the same rate because that is the fair way to do it and make sure everybody has basic coverage that is what medicare it tends to do and does a good job and that is what i propose for the american public other nations in this world do it to guess what? they provide health care for lower cost than what we do with better results in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality and all the rest. we can do better and i am committed to it.

mills: first of all, cannot continue and will not continue what we have seen so far cost has gone up we have people paying higher premiums higher copays and higher deductibles. remember the promises if you don't like your plan nuking keep it short you don't like your doctor can keep them everybody would save $2,500? it is a lie because it is a bad plan and will not work. ion for health care reform. it brings down cost to increase access also with the affordable care at to make sure people don't have to worry about pre-existing conditions, lifetime maximums or of a catastrophic health condition they don't have to worry where the care comes from however we have to decide who we are as a people or a society are we a

legal safety net with welfare protections or a welfare state that they can get everything and taking away? the social safety net which is due to obamacare the medical health association will close at the end of this year. we could look at the high-risk pool. it was not perfect but we could have made a better we could work on legal protections and social safety ban and let the free market brings the medical economy, the inflation rate in line with inflation rate with the rest of the economy. because we know the free market works and socialism does not worked buying and selling insurance across state lines for transparency in the medical economy in more utilization of health savings accounts can put the power in the hands of the

patient and the consumer it should be between the patient and the government and the insurance company and the doctor but it should be between the patient and doctor. we have to get back to where we stand as americans. >>moderator: your thoughts? sandman: that is it. affordable everybody does need insurance but the program that is out there right now it is unaffordable. any one single or living on welfare is not affordable. idols a lease -- scrap the whole plan but we take off the table. other countries in the world can do this.

we are driven so much by profit and greed by the corporations and insurance companies that they forget about their people. that is us. so it needs to be looked at and analyzed and scrutinized to be made affordable affordable. >>moderator: congressman? a rebuttal? nolan: now mr. mills says he supports the things that are in the affordable care package but somehow he wants to repeal its? talk about doublespeak starting tussaud like a barn on a warm sunday afternoon but the fact is you keep talking about free market and affordable why do you think we had to abandon the free market to establish medicare? because people could not

afford it. that's why and why do we need changes now? firstly have to rebuild the middle class. they cannot afford anything with the minimum wages now you have an increase? don't you find that personally offensive the super rich millionaires and billionaires to have to pay more taxes? i think it is offensive you want to deny the working men and women a living wage. then they can afford some health care whether in the private public-sector. >> am looking for some common-sense solutions to get affordable health care to everyone. a fundamental right to have income to afford a lot of things like a home and

afford to feed their children without working tour three jobs. that is what the choice is all about. mills: and he covered a lot of ground. he said its mills like the barn? i talked about how i handle health care reform might have been consistent. if that is your accusation and it is out of context but minimum wage are stepping stone as a first job to get the skills and experience they need to get the next paying job that they have. the fact there are not jobs after those is the indictment of the failure of the democrats that are in control of this economy for the last six years. we should be removing those steppingstones reigniting

the economy because the balkan oilfield nobody is talking about minimum wage they talk about jobs and economic prosperity and things that are happening. and talking about common-sense solutions i hope government run health care is not a common-sense solution to what we need to do with our health care economy. sandman: once again we have to have affordable. i talked with some people hear about fear for weeks ago and just to make a living this man had to work three part-time jobs. that is not acceptable in a country like ours. he could not afford to have the insurance.

so it needs to be looked at and analyzed to make it affordable for everyone. in this great state should have to work three jobs at minimum wage and still suffer this is supposed to be the land of opportunity i don't see opportunity there. at all. >>moderator: we cannot have this forum without talking about guns watching your as is like watching the hunting channel. [laughter] so let's talk about guns in the context of the tragedies of mass shootings but also respecting second amendment rights. mills: we need to enforce

the laws we currently have rather than making up new ones. it doesn't make sense when the laws enforced. and also i will stand up for your second amendment rights the congressman has received a failing grade from the nra if anybody wants to debate that go to space record it, go to the nra web site themself it will settle the debate pretty quick. however he also voted for a national gun registry. he wanted to be an smaller framed handgun back in the '70s then he gets back to washington d.c. then goes on the sunday morning talk show circuit to talk about banning semi-automatic rifles and have the government tell us how many bullets we can have been the

kind. he has more than earned his failing grade. in washington d.c. i will stand up for your second amendment rights. sandman: i totally support the second amendment as the veteran. i have been using -- i have been trained the also to keep the psychopath and the crazies need background checks to get -- to keep them from getting their hands on them we need to go deeper with the background checks to not allow the school shootings to have been. people kill people. we need to look at the process. for background checks for anybody.

and that is the start. to reduce support your right to bear arms. everybody's right. that we need to do more background checks. nolan: when i said on cbs "face the nation" that i don't need an assault rifle to shoot a doctor. and i don't. perhaps you do. maybe you should spend more time at your shooting range. but the fact is that right now you can only have three shells in europe the way you shoot ducks. but there have been numerous safety measures passed over the years that you have not abridged their right to bear

arms. that is just a hard cold fact of life. you cannot go to school with the machine gun and a grenade launcher. but that does not take away our right to bear arms that is fundamental. many of us have taken the oath to safeguard and it is made clear this made up primarily of washington lobbyists in thousand dollars suits lobbying for gun manufacturers in the people who sell guns. the end are eight guys that i hang out with i have seen surveys that show three out of four of them support background checks. do you really want the right to sell guns to people that are convicted violent

criminals? and terrorist with serious mental illness? to do what the right to sell guns to those people? with you have against a background checks? protecting second amendment rights is another. i love to hunt and i love to fish i love to shoot and my wife quite frankly we live in a remote location glad to have guns around for personal protection and. >>moderator: you could have one minute rebuttals to talk about reasonable gun-control. mills: first of all, is way over the line to sell guns to criminals and terrorists. we should follow the laws we have rather than create new ones.

and i don't need an assault rifle to shoot a doctor and they should be banned. automatic rifles work exactly the same regardless of how they look. also i don't want the government to tell me i can only have three bullets in my gun. 912 find out how he -- how mr. nolan found out -- receive his failing grade goes to the nra. sandman: now want to reiterate we need the background checks. everybody in this great country of ours has the right to bear arms. but we need to do something to keep the crazies and cycle does from getting their hands on assault weapons from walking into the school because they have

a bad day. we need better background checks. >> i just want to agree with mr. sandman. you know, they can walk across the street the people that mr. sandman is talking about they can walk across the street from your store to go to a gun show to buy all of those guns plans as he said something needs to be done about that and i am sorry you oppose that but many of us feel that background checks are important to keep guns out of the hands of murderers and traders those two are criminally insane and threatening violence and other people. there is no reasonable rationale for not putting together a complete system of background checks to keep

guns out of the hands of those type of people with those inclination's. >>moderator: turning attention overseas confronting the terrorist threat of isis leading a collation and air strikes but that alone will not win the battle. the administration says we will lot commit ground troops. heidi propose we do with this issue of a growing terrorist threat? mr. sandman? sandman: the first statement i should make america should not be the world's policeman. the coalition forces ready to step up to put their troops on the ground i have been to war and i have seen more. i have seen the damage that is done to young men and women from the past in the future.

i served in in in vietnam twice as i know what it is like. but to risk our young men and women i don't believe the united states needs to send the ground troops in. a limited air assaults what they do right now, i agree with that. but we need to have saudi arabia stepped up. they have the biggest air force in the region. let them step up to star put their troops on the ground. let them put it their troops taste the danger. i am sick and tired of united states being called an to be the world's policeman. we need to step back and bring the boys and girls home and let them fight it out over there.

because they have the resources. they have the funding from the united states to do that. and by god they should step up to save our young men and women. not to put their lives in danger. now you know, where i stand on that. thank-you. nolan: i have lived in the middle east, and studied the language and culture i have done business and have a pretty good feel for the people over there. one things that i never -- things and not as they appear. we have spent trillions of dollars, a precious blood in this conflict. either directly or

indirectly we have supplied arms and munitions to just about every single element in that fight over there. we gave arms to the mujahedin and they more often to al qaeda. they attacked the world trade center. we supported saddam hussein we know he used chemical weapons because we gave them to him than the overthrow him than we -- and weak decide to support maliki. mother would have called him malarkey. then persecuting christians and the jews shutting down churches and synagogues to get out or they would kill them then they gave money for the awakening to protect themselves against the shiites then reset directly and overtly into syria. the freeze syrian army coup

by the way are actually the muslim brotherhood. then we would attack aside because he was aligned with has been lot and with iran. now we will high-tech -- attacked those who oppose the side and his ally hands the other radical elements. the point is no matter how well-intentioned we are, we have given money and arms to everybody on every side of this fight. these are moneys that were needed here in america for deficit reduction and rebuilding america. bring our troops home and get out of this conflict, it is not our fight it is our there -- there's. they have been added thousands of years we can ill afford to spend any more money in this conflict. mills: it starts with our

failure to enforce the agreement with the iraqi government really could have but we prematurely withdrew troops from iraq created a vacuum that it was filled by bad people doing bad things. al qaeda is not on the run. they have not been decimated. we have given them a country. we don't have a choice in this one. they have the direct exit -- intention of attacking americans in america and american interests abroad. the current track that we are on is the right track because we need to leverage our air power, work with allies in the region rather saudi arabia or turkey and it is in their interest that we crushed a thread of isis or properly indebted --

vetted to give the logistical support and intelligence that they need so this coalition can be successful to a into our mistake of creating the of vacuum. mister sandman? sandman: i agree with mr. nolan. we need to stop selling arms. we have been fighting for how many thousands of years? and i don't believe we're doing them any favors to supply them arms. we need our boys and young women home. we need to stay out. and not be the world's policeman we need to take care of what is happening here in the united states. >>moderator: congressmen? nolan: i want to reiterate we have no friends in this

conflict is the arms that we send a letter used against us. even if it is a good idea we can ill afford it is bankrupting our nation. we not only need that money to rebuild america but take care of the veterans when they come home. we have a sacred obligation to take care of veterans whose serve and protect them when they come home and i have been committed to that that is what we have to put an end to our involvement in this conflict it just makes us of a target and prolongs the court -- the target exacerbates the violence only those in the middle east can resolve among themselves. everyone said if we resolve it we have to put boots on the ground to be there another 30 or 40 years but america will not be around in another 30 years if we keep spending billions and billions of dollars with nation-building abroad at a

time when america's bridges are falling down, veterans are not taken care of and we need to use those monies and energies for deficit reduction to rebuild america mills: one thing that i agree with this we have to take care of our veterans. we have not done a good job with it in the past but we have to do a better job. everybody gave some and some gave all. it is something we have to do if we have to send them to fight we have to take care of them when they come home but we don't have a choice. we cannot bury our heads in the sand while americans are be headed in and released. >>moderator: we have hit on taxation a that'll bit. though one side is to build the middle-class the other side it charges you offer

tax breaks to the wealthy or corporations that send jobs overseas. sova about taxation does it benefit every day in minnesota and and what is the economic upswing? nolan: if it is not known it should be that i spent the last 32 years of my life in business. i built my own business of a saw mill and a pal of factory i bought blocks from the wall lagers in this district and palates from the manufacturers i know what it is like to build a business from the bottom up to create jobs would it's like to meet a payroll and to finance a business and have to comply with a wide range of government rules and regulations. what i like not have to be

obligated? of course, . but it is necessary. before ocean of there was no one to count on their fingers because they lost too many. in the brain your area i remember when kids were 25 years old and their life was over because their lungs were full of fiberglass birkenau with osha they still make fiberglass votes and kids can retire so when it comes to taxes i am supportive of the investment tax credits to invest in new equipment and machinery and of government programs to facilitate innovation and new business and onto procurers and new business activities. that sba something we could

take advantage of to create our business which by the way my children all that business today in doing very nicely with it with the pallid factories to supply palla parts and doing quite well. but to rebuild the middle class we have to get away from the trickle-down theory give more money to the super rich and build from the bottom up. that is why i disagree so vehemently to give more tax cuts to the super rich and your opposition to increasing the minimum wage. we need tax incentives to stop sending manufacturing overseas and headquarters overseas to escape taxation at a time the rich and powerful that benefited so much step up to pay their fair share the same way working men and women in

this country pay their fair share. . . you could fill it out on the back of a postcard and send it in because we need a smaller irs and a less complicated tax code. but we have to understand the economic engine of our part of minnesota. over 80% of all employers ours mall and medium-sized businesses

that are taxed at the personal, individual bubble. they are subchapter s., llc, said partnerships, they pay taxes as individuals. when they pay a higher tax rate, 39.6% in corporate america, wall street is paying 35% and they have farnese, accountants, lawyers and cpas, that is the reason we have disproportionate -- one of the reasons we've disproportionately high unemployment in our part of minnesota. you know, the numbers, for the state, look good. when we pick apart what is happening in the district, the iron range has 64% higher unemployment than the rest of the state. brainerd and for rapid in the last several months have topped out about 10% unemployment. in dignity, yes the outskirts of bemidji are part of this district. they have topped out in the last

several months 10%. but that is not the real numbers there. we had a much higher rate of employment, participation employment market about six years ago. thousands, thousands of friends and neighbors have given up looking for work altogether. we have people working two or three or four part-time jobs were talked about that because they can't find a good pain or higher paying or higher paid job that fits their skill level and that is indicative of an economy that is not her cream, that is sputtering and if we want to make sure part of minnesota has a great economy, we have to look at reigniting mainstreet business now from washington d.c. or wall street on down and we need to look at getting projects going and making sure polymath is going. we know how to do it. we just have to go and do it. >> moderator: thank you,

mr. mills. mr. sandman, your philosophical approach to taxation. sandman: i agree with mr. mills. the irs is in the dark looking to strike. but i would start making sure that we get the money out of the corporations. stop the subsidies. i could wrong, but last i heard it was about $500 billion a year. make the corporations start paying taxes. you know, four to $5 billion spare. i believe in a straw tax base, but it doesn't need to calm from the backs of the middle class. it doesn't need to come that way. we need to start looking at the top. they see the trickle-down effect doesn't trickle-down it all. it only goes so far.

so when you talk about taxes, yeah, we need a flat tax break that is fair for everyone. everyone, not just the ones at the top. then we can have some money and we can do some things here in minnesota. we can redirect the money. if i am elected i will do the best i can to redirect the money. we need to get the money out of government here and we need to put it in the pockets of the people. that is you, my friends, that is you. thank you. >> moderator: thank you. congressman nolan, one more minute. nolan: one more thing, people like stewart like to talk about the tax rate to 30% and 35%. let's talk about reality. a recent study in minnesota found the average person making a million dollars so more is pain and affect every of 13%,

not her a 5% or 38% and the average person making $30,000 to $50,000 is paying 31%. so the one who made the million only has $870,000 left to get by on for the year and the person making 30,000 ole miss 20,000 to get by and for the year. stewart, you make more money with the salary your family pays you sitting here in an hour and a half than the minimum wage earner will make in a week. one of your fellow employees came up to me and a diplomat than he found out he would have to work for your company for 33 years to make what your family pays you in a year. the fact is the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer and the tax policies are exacerbating and accelerating not in no small part responsible for that and nobody is for penalizing the rich. on the contrary, we just want the rich and powerful to pay their fair share and we reject this trickle-down theory of

economics. we support increasing minimum wages and rebuilding the middle class because that is how you rebuilt the promise of america. >> moderator: mr. mills, i assume you want to respond to that. someone yes, at the very beginning mr. nolan is making a great base for tax reform and then he started talking about her family's business. yes, we been successful. we do make a profit. that is the purpose of business. whether this are profit or through your paycheck, anybody in business knows that it's an opportunity to reinvest back in your business to sustain the jobs you currently have in to create new ones. and that is her business model. that is fleet farm's business model. we work hard, sweat of our brow, sometimes with calluses on our hands. you make it bloody at times, but at the end of the day, we hope to make a profit and hair cells could wages. but that's an opportunity to reinvest back in our business and that is our entire business

model. again, we are not public treated. there's no venture capital money, no private equity money. what we have been able to do is make sure we are able to grow our business off of our profit and off of our own wages and reinvest back in her business and we make no apologies for it. >> moderator: mr. sandman, any final thoughts on taxation? sandman: we need to do the right thing. we need to do the right thing for the happiness and survival of the middle class. we need to get the money out of the corporations and have them start paying their fair share. then we can look at funding some of our social programs out there. we need to start with the rich and bring it down. we pay enough taxes already. we don't need to burden ourselves with any more. just having it be fair. having it he fair for everyone.

>> moderator: thank you, gentlemen. and respect our time this evening we have time for one more question and that we will go to closing comments. let's talk about social security, medicare and medicaid, all designed to provide for a social safety net if you vote, but most agreed than that its frame with each passing year of inaction by congress. would you propose to be done to begin to address the problems we know are coming? mr. mills. mills: first of all, you set up the promise perfectly. a promise made is a promise kept. the entity promises to seniors, but we have to be cognizant of those programs doubled each insolvency in 2034, about 20 years. after identifying the problem, we have to come together on a bipartisan solution because we don't need to do to social security and medicaid that the democrat party has sent to america with obamacare.

it has to be both houses of congress, both sides of the aisle putting all options on the table to make sure we are able to make good on those promises to her seniors. as far as medicare is concerned, we have to look at the underlying medical economy. the increased inflation in the medical economy is killing medicare. not only that, we have taken $716 billion out of medicare to pay for obamacare. if anybody thinks that is a phony accounting number or somehow that went to benefit medicare, you can talk to the people in the home health care industry. they have had about $50 billion taken out of the medicare home health care and we have seniors depending on that. we need to put $760 billion back into medicare because those are real cuts regardless of what anybody tells you.

thank you geared >> moderator: thank you, mr. mills. mr. sandman, your thoughts on social security, medicare, medicaid. sandman: we need to put the money back in. we also need to change the thought in washington to consider social security and entitlements. we, the workers built that fund. by god, just because you are sitting in washington, that is our money. that is our money that belongs to us for when we get older. medicare is the same way. they sound great, but if they are an open door for a bank robber, it is going to bankrupt all of us. so we need to do the right team. we need to put the money back. social security is not an entitlement program and we need to let all by representatives in washington, the senate, so you

know, enough is enough. thank you. >> moderator: thank you veered commerce and nolan. nolan: yet, i want to emphasize something mr. sandman has just said here. social security and medicare are not entitlements. they are earned benefits that people started paying for the first hour, the first day, the first month i ever went to work with the hope in the expectation that they would live long enough sunday to enjoy the benefits. the fact is that dean has done more to lift more people out of poverty, maybe in the history of the world from social security. nothing has. nothing have done more to extend the lives of senior citizens and having access for all through medicare, the single-payer system, by the way, steel. and the fact is social security has a 2 trillion-dollar surplus in it. and in the absolute worst-case

based on projections, we don't know what it will actually be. but it is good for 20 or 30 years of experts can actually say if we just lifted the cap on the amount people have to pay their social security taxes on and make millionaires and billionaires pay the same rate working men and women pay, why we would make social security secure. you are talking about keeping all options on the table when your own political party that you choose to caucus with this code for the privatization and turning social security over to wall street? i will oppose that with all my might and all my strength. and you're talking about the same case with medicare quiet taking and turning that back to the insurance companies were one third of all of our health dollars go to a big insurance company profit and senseless costly administration? no, no, no, there are ways we can reduce health care costs and

there are ways we can protect social security and medicare without turning social security over to wall street and without turning medicare over to the insurance industry. we had that once about a time. and if you think oscar ballot under the affordable carrots come you better go back and read how vastly accelerating the cost of insurance under the so-called free market system you embrace, they were much worse we've got to fix a to fix it. we've got to improve it. we have to keep moving forward and protect social security and medicare. >> moderator: thank you. mr. mills, response? mills: yes, first of all, there have been republicans that have advanced different ideas, but those are not me. so for representative mills: to attempt to put words in my mouth because somebody somewhere in the republican party advanced one idea to me you know what, i can only stay but i believe what i will stand for washington.

nolan: you are the one who said all options run the table. they are not for me. sorry. someone know, that's quite alright. anyway, can i start over on the time? that was rude, but it's understandable. last night basically, i don't want anybody to go person i about because i want to stand for what i stand for and i will stand for you in washington d.c. i believe in preserving and protecting social security and medicare. but we have to be cognizant of the fact that these programs have a date of insolvency and we can't just keep kicking the can down the road. thank you. >> moderator: thank you. mr. sandman. sandman: i was kind of enjoying the arguments here. [laughter] wow. you guys are good. [laughter]

we need -- it is not in the title my program and people need to realize that wash and, we need to have java portable and i'll do things we talked about here tonight, come back to the middle class people. if i am elected into the office, i will do everything i can to keep those costs down, bring that money back and put it back where it belongs, with you the people. thank you. >> moderator: thank you. congressman? nolan: i guess i get another minute? what a deal. i will go back to what i said before. you have chosen to go to washington and caucus with the people that want to privatize the social security and privatize medicare. it is one thing you say you want to protect it.

you know, the doubles are in the details. if your idea of protecting it for keeping all options open, including privatizing both, which is the people you pose to caucus with, there should be a little disturbing for people who are relying and counting on a social security and medicare. i would just submit once again, nothing has done more to lift poverty than social security. nothing has done more to extend the lives and add more life to the lives of our seniors and medicare. they are two wonderfully good programs and i have no interest whatsoever in privatizing either one of them and will do whatever it takes to preserve them as they are. they have never failed to meet an obligation. there is never a year they haven't produced a profit and

they've done so much good for seniors but i will do everything in my power to protect them as they are. >> moderator: thank you, congressman. i ask each of you to limit your comments to two and a half minutes and ask the audience to please refrain from applauding until some final thoughts of mine. mr. mills, i will start with you. your closing comments. mills: it is pretty simple. it hurt a lot today. the question is who is better to represent our ideals and priorities in washington d.c.? somebody voted with obama approximately 90% of the time, someone who is afraid who is a free dead by the nra. we didn't touch on it a whole lot, but someone who actually voted for energy tax, a carbon tax that would strangle the economy of our part of minnesota. the number one cost is energy. the energy tax would strangle her iron range in the same four

chamber and the paper industry. large part of their expenses is energy. the carbon tax, the energy to wade be the port of duluth ships about 40% and carbon, energy. that would strangle her part of minnesota, causing us to pay more at the pump and causing us to pay more in our home energy bills. somebody who supports the waters the u.s. rules which would cause the epa to come in and regulate trading, tile, ditches and ponds under family farms and a buddy who thinks obamacare is a great first step to government-run single-payer health care. hopefully you've listened carefully. you've listened with open ears, open arms and hope it hurts. i look forward to your vote and representing you in washington d.c. because they truly believe, based on what we talked about

here that i best represent the values and priorities of this district and i look forward to going to washington d.c. to serve you. thank you. >> moderator: thank you. mr. sandman, your final thoughts. sandman: i am a common person and i use comments ends. if i am elected, i can walk between both parties. i am not stuck in the party boat whether it be republican or democrat. i care about you and doing the right the, lowering taxes, student debt, jobs, environment. number one is the environment with me. there's a lot of talk out there

but the corporations and the pose that be don't care about the environment or the people. they are fed agreed. they don't care about you. the parties i believe don't care about you. it is about controlling power. i care about you. i care about your grandchildren and their break to life. when i am elected, i will make my voice heard and i will do the best that i can for you. or you are the ones that put me in power. you are the ones that put me in the office and your voice will not go unheard. so vote for me in november 4th

thank you. >> moderator: thank you. congressman olin. nolan: again, i want to thank everybody for this opportunity, if my opponents in this race for a spirited debate. it should be pretty clear by this point but the choices in who you are for. one other element i would just like to add to it is the question of who can get things done in washington as well. independent groups rated yours truly offer 10% of people who are able to introduce legislation and effectively get it passed into law. believe me, as a freshman and a tea party republican dominated house of representatives, that is no easy task. "time" magazine cited my leadership for keeping us out of the war in the middle east. i sponsor an amendment on the floor of the house to knock $89 billion out of the afghan

reconstruction fund. why? because we need that money back home for deficit reduction and rebuilding america. that's enough to refinance the state of minnesota and fund our roads and bridges. i help write the farm bill. i hope that the water resources bill. i sponsored a bill to streamline the regulations for manufacturers like sirius, creating all kinds of good jobs. i passed legislation to prohibit the presidents republican and democrats for rating our harbor trust fund. i passed legislation helping protect the great lakes and our mississippi watershed from the various bases species that destroy our native fish and aquatic life. i secured 3000 acres for the fond du lac band of chippewa nation that had been stolen by settlers following the treaty of 1854. my staff and i have worked with

government private agencies, try that nonpublic to secure while over $300 million in grants for rose, bridges, airports, harbors, schools. the point is there is a longer list. mining executives as well as mineworkers support my candidacy. energy executives as well as energy and please support my candidacy. you know where i stand on all of these issues. you know who i am for. people just have to ask who they are for the decision on who to vote for should be easy. >> moderator: thank you. we will leave it there, gentlemen. thank you for your participation. we appreciate the opportunity to have a discussion on the issues. chuck, thank you. thanks to the civility project, folks and of course thanks to the playhouse for the use of their facilities. thanks again. enjoy the rest of your day.

[applause] [cheers and applause] >> first things first.

when you elect a new governor, you're going to add a billion and a half dollars deficit. spending is out of control and they were embarrassing nightmare. we reversed all of that. for balanced budgets in a row for rebuilding michigan's foundation survey can carefully invest in ways that help all michiganders. education, health care, jobs, kids, this recovery will last for generations. >> i am mark schauer and i'm running for governor because rick snyder's economy might work for the wealthy, but it is not working for the rest of michigan. but thousands of jobs along the lines i sought to rescue at the auto industry, but there's still so much to do. as governor, i will cut middle-class taxes, reverse governor snyder's education cuts and get rid of tax breaks for companies that send our jobs overseas. because our economy should work for everyone, not just the

wealthy. >> jennifer granholm signed one of the largest tax increases in michigan history thanks to her senate leader, mark schauer. the deciding vote for painful services tax, mark schauer. a newspaper calls her go to guy in the senate. granholm calls schauer a rock star. rockstar? for 300,000 jobs lost in crippling debt come a granholm tax ways of michigan drowning in debt. >> governor rick snyder cut a billion dollars from education, a billion dollars. now he claims city increased school funding? >> added my classroom. >> or mine. >> a not mine. >> rick snyder's education cuts that my classroom is more crowded crowded. >> hurts the economy. a good job cost of a good education. >> rick snyder cut a billion dollars in education. we know because we see it

everyday. >> both candidates will debate sunday. c-span has live coverage at 6:00 eastern. we'll cover shoelaces between incumbent rick snyder and his schauer a tossup. pulling ahead by an average of four percentage points.

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>> next, can he'll talk about the political books out right now, including ralph mader and his latest, called "unstoppable "the emerging left-right alliance to dismantle the corporate state. and then paul ryan, the way forward, and then new york

center kirsten gillibrand talks about her book, off the sidelines. >> from the cato institute in washington, dc, consumer advocate and five-time presidential candidate ralph nader. he calls for an alliance between progressives, conservatives and libertarians to take on issues like corporate bailouts, pentagon spending and civil liberties. this is an hour and 30 minutes. [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon, welcome to the cato institute. i am vic