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he looks at occupied paris during world war ii. the author recounts daily life in the city during the four years of occupation the development of an underground resistance and liberation. it's a little under an hour. >> and good evening everyone. i think we would like to get started with tonight's program.

we do have c-span book tv tonight filming the talks we are excited about that and grateful that so many people will be able to see the program for this evening. to that end i want to ask if you have questions it will be a fairly long question and answer period. we are going to pass a handheld microphone around so you can be heard. just indicate you have a question and we will come along and pass the microphone. so when you have it in your hand i do want to say that it's my closure to introduce professor and author who's written and released when paris went dark the occupation of 1940 to 1944 disappearance is in partnership with our local bookstore so

thank you very much for helping us. paris the city of life was silent and almost deserted when german came into it in 1940 in a week. so is defeated and occupied. many reasons of opposite at that the state of occupation but still the movement began to build encompassing citizens from all walks of life despite differences in politics related to age and gender. the movement included in china included many shiite cards and intellectuals operated under the leadership of the officer. the author of when paris went dark was born in new england and educated at tulane university in princeton university. when he was a student in the 60s as he went to paris for the first time and while there he wondered what the city has been like under german

occupation. it wasn't until ten years ago that he turned. the result is a researched book that utilized the range of resources including diaries, archives, interviews, photographs. he's written an unbiased book that captures not only the citizens that the loneliness of the german troops as well and we just learned today it is in the top ten list for the national but the word, so that's exciting news. [applause] he's the professor in the arts and humanities and professor of french and european studies at amherst college where he also served as the dean of the faculty. in addition to the publication of when paris went dark piece published over 100 articles and

reviews, three essay collections and has written two monographs of novelists. he lives in amherst massachusetts. please join me in welcoming ron. [applause] >> thank you susan and elm street books for inviting me. my wife is a cookbook writer and she came down a couple of years ago and her new book will have some backup. i wanted to have an evening where we would talk about castro

for hitler. [laughter] i want to thank the library and you that are interested. think of this there are still people that read in america. but i'm going to do is give a brief introduction to what i'm trying to do in the book and then read two excerpts in the discussion for questions because i found in speaking about the book that but the question and answer sessions were the most interesting.

when it wasn't an administrative military or political or even social history of the occupation, it is an attempt at what i decided to call it a tactile history showing how it might have stuck pretty occupied and the occupier to be on edge in a familiar environment for over four years. they've solicited a challenging historians because it doesn't explain so much as it shows. but then what it may have been like to live in occupied paris. i would endeavor to give a tone of suggestion of mass rather than uncertainty of the

questions of shaddai resist and if so, how. should i stay or leave or accommodate and prosper. where does it say in collaboration again? who should i trust and as the war goes on, how does it change? to distill possible answers. it is perhaps presumptuous yet it takes a certain amount to understand human actions and even oceans but i think that we

must try. let me read two passages which i think will give you a sense of what the book is about. if you don't have questions i will read or. in 1940 as the race to paris they felt especially honorable. most bring the government into traditions would protect them from the not the racism that if you read the writing on the wall more than others. it was precedent enough to

understand not only was his business about to suffer, they instituted their racial policies in france. he acquired exit visas for his family and had odd number of bills -- automobiles. one major problem remained. border guards to describe other hunted persons and he knew he wouldn't be able to successfully carry his stock of time and over the border. he had to leave them hitting, but where. taking a chance he decided to run rely on his body.

he poured in the street into a tall jar and then dribbled the precious stone into the liquid constantly stirring it as it cooled. from the outside of the suspended time and are invisible. he arrived at his friend home holding the -- after a worried about the current shape of paris

and france got the diamond traders said they that i must leave for obvious reasons. i am unsure about when i will be able to return but i do know that i would like to have the family ready to go remedy and i hope that you are here waiting for me when i come back. it means a lot to me and our memories but i ask you to keep it. they were relieved. the merchant (-left-paren not -- an apprehensive. but the more immediate concerns dominated. fortunately that is keeping with the family was a success making his way into fame they said it

works that it works in the united states where they remained for five long years. account the dinner table the family wondered about the bottle sitting in a dark cupboard back in occupied paris and in early 1986 when the merchant finally returned to the city he found himself once again in his friend's kitchen and they exchanged stories and the jewish friend broke the subject that occupied him for half a decade. he remembered when it crossed his mind getting it from the table he rummaged out of the

cupboard mumbling to hope we didn't throw it out when we moved things around and into the merchant waited. i found it, i think. if you light up the stove and the content of the chart taking this as the merchant poured the contents into another container and their nestled in the match was his time and reserve sparkling as if they had never been covered. the merchant selected the previous largest and handed it

to the speechless host. the story was told to me and now i want to move to another side of the story and that is how do the germans feel? i try to explain what it was like to be an occupier and officer in the city the germans definitely respected in the city where the parisians are not the most welcoming people even if you aren't a german occupier. we are less than friendly and so

this is an anecdote written by an officer whose job had primarily been sent to paris and they make sure there were no jews involved in writing or publishing. they brought her to her apartment door november of 1940 the germans had been in paris for five. she had gotten used to seeing them in the street but she was stunned when she saw the van and a uniform. quickly she called her husband.

what could he possibly want with them. the germans had about 1.5 million. the german officer introduced himself who had known while he was studying medicine in germany. coincidentally heller told him he was new to paris and his son is the only person they knew to call on. the reason they were concerned their son had another debate could never spoken of another

and at any rate he was not there and wouldn't be for a long time. they didn't invite him in or show any interest in his story. the lieutenant recounts the anecdote in his memoirs for 1981 reminding us of the other side of the occupation. of course we have to consider it with care. as in educated and generous man in his book presents anecdotes that help us understand further the anxieties that affect many

of the best officers and at least 40 years later he had the task that would be anti-german or influenced by jews. it was a warehouse in pairs where the books were teased with her left. they keep it respectable yet the censorship to chop away at originality and imagination so after arriving in paris we have to accept that he was an outsider no matter how much of a francophile he considers

themselves. he wasn't in the senate does one that made them unconscionable. germans spent a good deal of their time in pairs for the same reason and no one could tell the difference between the german and the frenchman he discovered even his accent could be construed as swiss rather than german. they tried to separate themselves not only in an attempt to pass but also perhaps as a form of rejection not all germans that participated in the

occupation were not these. i live always a little in the state of disarray and english. how not to carry the marks of such tension when one knows the gestapo is spying on you and your comrades or superiors suspect you, your conscience becomes dislocated. again he offers his services to trust the germans. he lived on the street adjacent and today the bank where the father was the director. it was painfully furnished with antique furniture and he carried

on what the french and germans had have for alcohol and particularly with key. they would offer him a secret room where the german could stay until things calm down. afterward he argued german could resume. it's a stringent of comfort with each other. they were not collaborating but simply trying to help a friend who happened to be a key member of the occupation force. more interestingly, this anecdote reveals how secretive paris was during this period. everyone thought about the

rabbit hole and case things got worse. the concierge. they were homes in the country. at the end of the memoir, he leaves us with an anecdote that can serve as an upload applaud the anxiety of an occupier as he contemplated the loss of the war and the anticipation of returning to a devastating germany. at the night is only a german officer could come hell or often walk through the gardens in the lower regions and during the day then and now is our playgrounds for children in the area, the sights of sites of the markets, but kiosks come public conveniences and chairs for

senior citizens out for fresh air but at night under the wartime curfew with a few vehicles on the streets, these spaces were empty and silent. in the gardens strolling at dusk he had a strange encounter to read it speaks volumes about the loneliness he felt as well as about the patronizing attitude that many germans took the words the french charges. heller noticed the movement and when he approached, he found a girl hiding behind him. you best get home he said. they will catch you outside and you can be picked up. she explained she had missed her train and she lived in the country and then she had nowhere to stay in paris. she was hiding until the curfew was lifted and when she would catch the first train back home.

he took her to the hotel and asked the concierge at the girls speak in the lobby until the next morning. she left a note for heller thanking him and promising to call later and she did and for several this they would have dates, bicycle rides in the country, café moment. what was her name? i never knew. maybe in to the -- i gave her a name and she was for several my little queen accompanying me to the end of the road each day became heavier and darker. he assures his readers that he never laid a hand on the girl

and that they maintain their distance and they do skinny dip in the country stream. but he reveals the attraction to her and then he disappeared and they never saw her again. a year later when i it was becoming clear germany lost any initiative that again in the war to learn that another teenager in the garden but this time a boy. they showed a lot of tenderness toward each other. he would take my hand when we walked. nothing more. it was until spring of 1944 a few months before the liberation of disappeared forever. the anecdotes at the end of the

memoir speak to the sexual and psychological. paris approved for this german at least to be feared by nokia some of you natzism but he thought he was satisfying his loneliness, suspicion and later the threat of assassination that was heavily on both of the officers and the stations in paris. he recognizes no matter the surface the city underneath was like a hidden wasp's nest, and unidentifiable buzzing kept everyone on edge. he would refuse the hiding place of his friend but he would leave

a piece of themselves in paris. under a tree he buried a tin box filled with notes and a diary. in 1948 he returned for the first time since the war but he never was able to find his buried treasure. a part of his past way to hitting the resurgent paris. thank you. [applause] my book has anecdotes like that. i found in interviews and newspapers etc. i've tried to

show how complex it is and isn't just black versus white but very gray and you have to be careful when you are reading the memoirs of the german survived the war and the suspicions. you have to be suspicious but there are still was a tone many folks have no sympathy for. are germans, did they feel lonely. but there was still an element of confusion. i'm happy to read more but i

would really like to ask questions about this period and let's see how that goes. remember you are supposed to raise your hand and someone is going to give you a microphone. >> can you hear me click >> i can hear you. i don't know if c-span can. >> have you done another book about a german/nazi occupation and come up with similar anecdotes, similar feelings and innuendos quick >> without a doubt. the reason i concentrate is number one his number one i know it very well and they've been i've been there many times. the second, it is the most loved, most filmed, return of

the city in all of europe. when the germans took over paris whole world of their birth. from singapore to london, they marched by the way with warsaw was almost totally destroyed. paris was barely touched so you have the germans poking walking through the city that had just risen the city that everyone loved and its paris that makes the story it's more convincing. i have two microphones appear and for some reason i keep adjusting them.

but anyway that is a good question after that the oslo and copenhagen and i think my answer was i'm prejudiced but i'm also -- paris wasn't touched. yes, sir. >> i wonder if you could talk about the women that collaborated with the nazis. there are images of them being marched through the streets after liberation with their heads shaved. can you talk about the motivation and what happens afterwards? were they able to resume a normal life for a stigmatized for a long time?

guess it was a stigmatized that they but they were eventually reassembly did the site. the women had a major role because most of them were in prison and therefore peres which has always been considered a feminist city was even more feminist this time. it was the mothers who had jobs and which meant that there were many other jobs the young woman would get working for the german occupation. stenographer or working in a

cafeteria or in a canteen or in some other way innocently. there were also women that i've german soldiers. the estimate is somewhere around two or 300,000 were born during this period. the children suffered and many people went off and then came back home either having left the child someplace or left the child with a relative said there was a lot of relations between young people. many of them are teenagers or in their early 20s.

there's interesting stories that serve a lot of attention. when the liberation came. they wanted to get even with whoever caused them to have a horrible life. also, people wanted to get -- even because they have been nice to some german soldiers walking down the street with german soldiers into somebody said there were all kinds of reasons women were were certainly true

in a kangaroo trial and they were shaved with swastikas. men were also shaved and walked down the street. it was mostly men and neighbors to do the shaping. it was a complicated time and it embarrassed americans to the point where the allies had to instruct the soldiers to stop it if they could. it was embarrassed to see this happen to married women and young girls. by the way they were not ashamed because they had a reputable position and he wants me to do the job. it's only those who have been in business or any other way.

we had to leave the villages to happen and in some of then some of these you have to leave and then come back later. people realized later the reasons that they had been humiliated as obvious and justifiable. others left and never came back. it was probably the most historic photographs. some of them are rated and others shaved every part of hair on their bodies. some of them have to wear signs. it wasn't a pretty time. yes, sir back here.

>> considering the not the proclivities of responding to the arts, can you tell us about what happened with into private collections in paris? they had already been sent to curators in the 30s to museums to take the census of any painting that had been stolen when a hundred years ago were 200 years ago. they knew where every painting of importance and every museum they took over, every painting

they could justify this dramatic origin was going to be taking back and hit -- hitler in the town where he knew he was born in austria. number two they knew the collections, the owners of the great jewish gallery in amsterdam. they went right there almost immediately after arriving they went there to take the paintings down. it didn't make any difference. and they sold a lot of the paintings on the open market in switzerland in order to give cash. besides that there was a lot that they thought was to generate or influenced by jazz

or african-americans and that was taken and put into what used to be the very contemporary art. museum doesn't say it in paris but they burned a lot of it and they also were very canny and they didn't have the prejudiced and he took a lot of it himself. i forget the number, 20 or 30 trips on his special train to paris. fortunately a woman working there kept track of every piece made. she was asked for narrowly canny

but the german take was terrible and had no taste. [inaudible] [laughter] but a lot of the germans were much more canny about the ark and the particular value. one of the interesting things is pablo picasso estate in paris during the occupation. here's a man that had already painted the most famous antiwar painting ever painted for the exposition in 1937 in which he attacks the powerful painting

attacking the germans in times square that wiped out so many innocent people and many germans are going to be a jew. he was darker skinned, certainly spanish. he may have been a communist. he did become a communist after the war and he stayed and that's one of the interesting stories we are going to learn more about this but he stayed because he was in the world's most courageous men and he was one of the richest and he was well known in his occupation to the point when the germans visit him and went to the studio in paris and they rated the lockbox that they didn't steal from him. many people said why.

and i think there was a -- there are two types of were several types of german attitudes and he was basically protected. there was a story where he kept it and later sent it out all over the world. but i can't remember who pointed out. they said did you do this and he said no, you did. [laughter] but they visited into protected and he was never arrested and he survived the war without any undue discomfort.

add an empty before they got there. when the lisa had any of the great -- there were blank statutes and empty walls and frames and when hitler made the tour he didn't even stop. the germans knew where most of this stuff was that they get an empty because they realized after the bombing in the 30s that museums were very affordable to the attack so they take down into the national gallery were spread out all over the country because of the fear of destruction.

yes, sir this gentleman here. >> guest: obviously a writer who stayed in paris to write after the war? >> part of the time, yes. >> did you include how help of war affected him and his later writing and did he participate in the resistance? he considered himself an algerian but a lot. a suffered terribly from tuberculosis and finally got back in and the doctor

recommended that he's 1942 and published the first two books and the second is about suicide and whether it makes sense to commit suicide. both of the books came out and he had to take out a reference to the otherwise the book was published and he would go back to paris as a young man and he came back and then he went back down to breathe better and joined the movement which he was very active and certainly became

a major editor about everything from collaboration to resistance. he published a book called the play about the bubonic plague and as far as i'm concerned that there's not an allegory for the occupation of france and a major novel about what do we do when faced with evil and locked inside a city. we can't close close to city offices at the plate with end-to-end people want to spread. what do you do do when you are closed off from the world x. there was an evil that you can't

really combat how do you deal with deck and debt and illness in those moments in your life you have to make major decisions about do i report my child has the plague to keep it from spreading etc.. so i think that it was one of the great, probably the greatest yes, sir? >> could you help us and explain what it was like. i know that it is a big topic that we don't know.

>> and i didn't know before i started. i tried not to make this a book about the. i wasn't the only one who lived in his entire meant that anxiety and tension and demoralization etc. but there was no. there were emigrants many of whom had fled to poland and germany.

they were the first nation to give full civil rights of the right to vote for, the right to own property, etc.. so the french have his reputation. they felt confident that the country would protect them. many of them fought in world war i and were the person of the camps. the immigrant jews were nervous as they should be the first effort was to wrap up the german jews but it became clear after the government was founded because if you can remember the french time that -- there there

isn't as much about the geography as. they began because it was filled with anti-semites. there is a string of was a string of anti-semitism in france at that time as there were in all of europe and it is not a french disease. and at first, i will take to be protected, but the rich jews so that they were only interested in their riffraff and they fought put the germans were only interested in the rich jews. there was a lot of tension in the community. there are many -- the french

jews were spared mainly because the germans didn't want to upset the french government because they needed the riches of france for the machine. perhaps it was by far the richest nation in europe, and they were stealing everything. when the motives, horses, cows, wheat, anything they could get. they just didn't want them taken back to. the the germans made the biggest mistake during the war, occupation. that is imposed the wearing of the little yellow star.

in june of 1942,. i had to wear the same sized star. to see those stars of the government to its credit refused to impose the yellow star and occupy france. i say to its credit because it is until he takes credit, it's didn't want to cough the population but they realized they couldn't hide anymore. any time you met someone with the story you had to make an ethical decision. do i smile, do i speak to them.

i didn't know that there were jews now. so for the first time the six bishops bishops of bishops at of the church out against rounding up of children and women they did this because totally the children and women. many of the leaders but it took them until 1942 to do that. that seemed always perfectly normal. i'm not talking about the jews from eastern europe. i'm talking about people that lived in france for 200 or 300 years. every gentile family had to deal with this issue.

mom, my friend is a yellow stone. what does this mean. why don't i have to wear this? that changed attitudes and it began -- the race to policy became obvious because people were saying by the grace of god i'm a protestant. but as a major mistake but still for two years they were sent to paris only a week before the liberation.