these join us tonight for news from those that attend for a detailed analysis of what we would see tonight. thank you gentlemen for being here and thank you for being here. [applause]

the first and so far only debate in the senate race monday night. live on c-span networks joining on the phone is joe gerth who covers politics for the journal. thanks for being with us. >> get a sense of where this race is three weeks out. >> guest: i think it's safe to say that race is very close. the polling in recent months has been trending towards mcconnell asked month up by four points in the bluegrass poll along with two television stations in the newspaper here in kentucky. we recently showed a two-point lead though these polls are in the margin of error and it wouldn't be a shock if either

one of them comes out a couple percentage points ahead. >> host: allison grimes was asked whether she voted for barack obama in 2008 and 2012. first of all, why this question and what kind of news did she make? >> guest: the question was asked because mcconnell spent the past year playing her to do barack obama's policies. people don't like her personally, people don't like the policies and mcconnell has been trying to convince the voters that if alison grimes is elected she will do the president's bidding and food for the agenda as he once in place, which senator mcconnell's argument is it's too bad for kentucky. grimes made news because it is the third time she's been asked this question and she was asked

whether or not she would vote for mcconnell and she would not answer the question. i was a hillary clinton delegate in 2008. i believed believe in the sanctity of the ballot box that asked for time specifically whether she voted for president, she wouldn't say. she's been getting hammered ever since then from the right, from the left, from the middle. daily kos, the liberal website was specific is determined to be used. >> host: former president bill clinton has been in the state campaigning for alison grimes. hillary clinton will be their leader in the month. what influence to the clinton have on the kentucky voters? us to code that's an interesting question. i guess we are going to find out

here. president clinton was the last democrat to carry kentucky in a statewide election. he carried kentucky in 1992 -- in the statewide election -- and then in 1996. when hillary clinton ran for the presidential nomination in 2008, she utterly destroyed barack obama in kentucky. so the clinton name is a strong name in kentucky. we did a poll on on this capability into was about as high as any politician we've seen in the state at 50%. >> host: mitch mcconnell elected in 1984. he's always face tough battles. why? >> guest: kentucky although it performs as a republican state it's got a strong democratic

voter registration about 56% of the voters are democrat and also being in the position he's in the democrats have been able to effectively use that to hurt his reputation. he doesn't come across as likable when he's up there and blocks every piece of legislation that is pushed or they try to push through in washington and over the years but has worked on his reputation >> host: senator mcconnell and alison grimes have been together on a number of issues we've covered on c-span at the kentucky debate is the only time the two will be of the same studio debating the issues. what are you looking for? >> guest: it's going to be interesting especially after this episode that we perform the

editorial board just to see how she handles this and whether she answers questions that are put to her. the same goes for senator mcconnell who appeared on the radio recently on a sports radio talk show and also before the cincinnati inquirer editorial board last week and when he was asked about global warming whether he believed it existed his answer both times was i not a scientist, i don't know. so it's going to be interesting to see if he sticks with that whine and if grimes holds his feet to the fire. >> host: joe gerth joining us in kentucky. thanks for being with us. >> guest: happy to, steve. >> a preview of tonight's debate between the candidates to be kentucky's next senator can see

that live at eight eastern on the companion network c-span. more campaign 2014 coverage now with another debate on one of 100 would have this season. up next candidates to be the next governor of colorado. this is the second debate between democratic incumbent senator mark udall and his republican challenger, congressman cory gardner.

both put into the rothenberg political report list this as a tossup. friday october 10 the denver post officially endorsed republican cory gardner. this is just over an hour. [applause] >> moderator: good evening and welcome to the denver post. we are really glad that you came out tonight to see the last of the denver post debate series. tonight we are lucky enough to feature the senate race for senator mark udall and representative cory gardner. i am the politics editor here at the denver post command with me moderating tonight is when the denver post reporter covering

the race. [applause] one of the most well-known reporters and politics coverage in the state of colorado is not the rocky mountain west. all right. so, thanks for coming. we just have a quick apple pieces of business to conduct. please withhold tonight overt reactions or displays until we have concluded the debate. i understand if someone is a funny line you can't help but chuckle. let's hold applause and whatnot until afterwards. if we have any haggling or overt disturbances, we will ask the person or persons to leave. we will have four different kinds of questions tonight. we'll have questions that are specific to the candidate. those are themed so the other candidate will not have a rebuttal that we have the traditional questions for both candidates and we will have a lightning or yes or no type of

round and a round where candidates get to ask questions of each other. we will forgo the opening statements. if you wish to know more about them this sunday they were published in the denver post and you can check those out. thank you again for coming. >> moderator: i have to make sure that my equipment is working. thanks for being here. much of this campaign .-center-dot women's health issues from abortion to birth control. we have separate questions for both of you on that issue. mr. gardner, you've been accused of waging an eight-year battle to outlaw birth control. please explain where you stand on birth control including your

position upon the iud and the morning-after pill. >> on the iud and the morning-after bill. gardner: thank you for the opportunity to be here with you today. it's outrageous to be the be that somebody would try to ban birth control. that's simply outrageous. the first time my wife and i saw a television ad by senator udall that said we wanted to ban birth control, my wife looked at me and smiled and said that you used to pick up my prescription? i support over-the-counter prescription made available without a perception. we should change obamacare to make sure that insurance can reimburse for that over-the-counter contraceptive purchase. when it comes to the other issues that you have been turned, those are legal and nothing is going to change that. >> moderator: mr. udall, you know that you support a woman's right to choose, but given the

advances in the understanding of fetal development very pregnant mothers know which week their babies grow fingernails, would you support the late term abortions and what we can? udall: i look forward to what i know will be a robust and spirited discussion tonight. congressman gardner has built his political career on working to ban abortions and common forms of contraception into this question is in effect a diversion from the differences between us in this campaign. colorado voters waited over and over on where they stand on will be waiting at the way to where we stand in the colorado voters is trusting a woman to make the decision that are best for her and her family and frankly politicians and judges and businessmen and women not to butt out and trust the women of colorado. there are situations there are late term abortion are found to be necessary. i heard a story of a couple that

we did many years to have a child and found out in the eighth month the child's brain was growing outside of the skull of the fetus of demanding that a child to be carried to term would be a form of government intervention that none of us want to see happen. we ought to respect the women of colorado and their point of view. >> moderator: we have several questions for both of you regarding the affordable care act area that mr. udall, you are a first. the first first of senate debate in 2008 when you were asked about health care reform, you said i'm not for the government run solution. you voted for the affordable care act which is expanded medicaid coverage for millions of low-income americans. how is this not a government run solution? udall: we put people in charge of their health insurance. that's what the affordable health care act does. we have a broken system. if you are a woman, you were

charged more. if you had someone in your family with a pre-existing condition, good luck adding the coverage you need. if someone got sick, you could literally be dropped off of your policy. the system was flat-out broke. what we did is put people back in charge of their insurance coverage and this is one of the differences in the campaign between the congress and gardner. he beauties we ought to go back to the field of system and he demonstrated that by voting over 50 types to appeal the affordable care act. my approach is to move us forward. the act is far from perfect and they had a lot that is lacking that we are moving forward and we have seen 400,000 in various ways have quality health insurance that didn't have that insurance a year ago. that's progress. the colorado ways to work together to ensure more and more can have coverage not to repeal into go backwards.

that's what congressman gardner what to do. >> moderator: you were one that received a notice that your health care plan had been canceled and why don't you have been quick to produce a obamacare you've redacted portion about the specific plan your family was using. why don't you tell the voters what was in that plan? gardner: my wife and i chose not to go to go into the congressional plan because we didn't be needed for spare senator udall created a separate plan on for the congress. so we chose our own plan, private healthcare solutions and we were one of 340,000 people who senator udall broke his promise to that if we liked our health care plan we could keep it. we chose a plan that we could afford that best fit our as did 340,000 other colorado. senator udall promised they could keep their health care plan if they liked it. he didn't say if i like your plan you can keep it but that's exactly what happened. we should repeal the obamacare

and create solutions that will actually work to lower the cost of filter to increase the quality of care. what we ought to do is make sure that lead to solutions where people with pre-existing conditions can be covered with what we got from senator udall was broken promise after broken promise and that is not the colorado break, senator. >> moderator: mr. gardner, we want to try to get a specific answer to the question -- [laughter] why did you redacted portion of the plan that your family was using? gardner: because we found a solution as an insurance policy that we liked, but our family liked. the same kind of solution 340,000 others found. 340,000 others have a health insurance policy that they liked. what senator udall promised is if you like your healthcare plan you could keep it. he didn't didn't take him and what he wants to do is to see this coming he wants to see your policy -- >> moderator: i am sorry but if you would like to answer that specific question we the specific question we have a little bit more time.

gardner: i'm happy to debate the failure of obamacare. >> moderator: we have other questions we want to ask. udall: if i might i would like to get a word in. >> moderator: we are trying to get you to enter a specific question. let's get control of the situation here to read every now and then we will look at each other and comfort to ask a follow-up question if we didn't think you question was answered. sometimes a candidate doesn't answer a question that also tells you something about the candidate but right now we are going to move on gardner: i would like to address what you just said. >> moderator: that would apply to any candidate that doesn't specifically answer a question. let's stick with the affordable care act for another round.

mr. gardner we will engage you a bit longer. thanks to the affordable care act more than 200,000 residents able to get health insurance through medicaid. if congress appeals the wall that you supported in the past, what would you do with these residents would lose coverage? gardner: the changes didn't take a 2700 page partisan bill that was passed when the obamacare action went through. as senator udall answered he said in colorado we work together but yet when he passed obamacare, he did it on the most partisan terms not a single republican vote for obamacare. i belief we have to do something instead of going back to what we had in place before the affordable care act to address people with needs including those people dedicated to make sure that we provide insurance for people with the existing conditions to make sure that we address the issues of the tort reform and make sure that we have savings accounts that can meet the needs of the people that the three primary promises were made when obamacare passed.

the first promise was if you like your healthcare thing you can keep it. senator udall broke his word. if you like your doctor you can keep your dr.. senator udall broke his word. the third promise if this would lower the cost of healthcare, senator udall broke his word and in the debate yesterday he said that it would they would still increase. >> moderator: we are out of time. >> moderator: mr. udall, thousands from colorado have either had their healthcare plans canceled order rate increased because of the requirements of the affordable care act. what changes would you make to mitigate this problem? udall congressman gardner should be the capability to filibuster. we don't need more senators to filibuster. we need to move the country forward. ' >> moderator: i'm sorry, withhold applause until after. udall: there was nobody more angry than me that when the insurance broke the intent of the law but if you like your plan you could keep your plan.

when i realized i was happening i went to work immediately. i offered legislation to offer to keep their plans. i was on the doorstep of the white house urging the administration to do everything in their power to provide waivers and then i worked with the governor of colorado on the division of insurance. and as know, congressman gardner is misstating what happened. there were 350,000 letters that went out but most included an option to renew your policy and that's what happened. but the point is we want to work together because if he says he's going to to reveal obamacare what does that leave us with, the mercy of the insurance companies just like we were at the mercy for the decades before we passed affordable care. we can't go backwards what's over words. >> moderator: now we have the same question for both of you. much has been made of economic issues from minimum wage to lilly ledbetter to the salary of the congressional staff. why do you believe your record is better than your opponents?

ester udall? udall: clearly my record is better than my opponents. all you have to do is look at the votes and the bills he sponsored. i guess i would start with the personhood movement of congressman gardner sponsored. it would ban all abortions and limit access to most forms of contraception. we've had about twice in the state of colorado over 70% rejected and we have it again this year. congressman gardner has his support. we have a real opportunity to ensure that they receive the same and that's been in front twice a game sure women receive the same pay as men. they are nursing mothers. congressman gardner doesn't separate the minimum wage. that would wage the prospects since two thirds of the workers

in the state are women. congressman gardner has a long way to go to understand the needs of the men and women. >> moderator: same question. gardner: senator udall talks about putting forward the peace that the economy in reverse and nobody suffered more than the women around our country because of senator udall's failed policies. they were promised that they could keep health care plans. they had their plans canceled. women were promised they could keep the doctor they liked. unfortunately thousands of people in colorado had their doctors out of network thanks to the center's broken promise. this economy has hurt women across the nation. the participation rate is at its lowest in 36 years in fact if you look at the most recent numbers more women are out of the workforce than the previous reporting because i are mark udall and barack obama's failed economy, jobs are available and i have a plan to get the country back to work focused on growing the economy and energy

independence. it's focused on the jet education opportunities but what it is not focused on his voting and 99% of the time barack obama as senator udall has. apostates be ten rebuttal clicks udall: we have the strongest economy in the nation right now. [applause] via 400,000 more people covered in quality healthcare because of what the affordable care act. the congressman talks about the four corners plan and all i can see him doing is cutting corners. he voted against raising the minimum wage when you think about the economy education he hasn't supported in the programs so we can afford college. on energy he touted the bill that was leaving the green energy revolution and the agency he claimed that didn't hire a single person or finance a single project and went out of business a few years later and

the congressman denied climate change. that is cutting corners. gardner: i get a rebuttal on mass? may i have a 32nd rebuttal clicks >> moderator: no sir. we want a professional environment. think of the presidential debates we want the viewers who may or may not have a position we are trying to gauge the credibility of the candidates so they can help make that decision. partisan cheering or whatever interferes in that. it just does. i know you feel strongly about your candidate and that is understandable and great but please let's have a professional environment for these folks and once it is all over we can shift back into campaign mode.

>> moderator: if you were asked the question first you get a rebuttal. >> moderator: is it your plan to address the islamic state crisis and the circumstances in which he would support american boots on the ground and ground in theory and iraq and we begin with mr. gardner. gardner: gardner: our foreign policy is in the situation is today because of the failure of leadership at the white house and the president said that his policies are going to be on the ballot and mark udall voted for those 99% of the time. the president said we have no strategy when it comes to dealing with isil. they said they are junior varsity actors and we will lead from behind. but if his plan because he agrees with them 99% of the time. we must make sure that we protect the safety and security of american families. that's why i separate the difference to make sure we take out the terrorists. but senator udall b. leaves the islamic state is not not in an

oppressed nation. he believes that they are not plotting against the country. we have people arrested at the denver international airport for conspiring with the islamic state. in chicago for conspiring with the islamic state. and as senator udall doesn't even show up at the armed services hearing when it talks about emerging threats. udall: i want to remind the congressman he is running against me, not the baca, come and ask my father, not reread. you should know that isil is a serious and immediate threat. i served on the intelligence committee. we are going to wipe them out and do it through a strategy that you supported and voted for a few weeks ago in the house of representatives. we are going to be there but we

are also going to call on our partners to step up and finally stop playing both roles they played for too long because arsonists and firemen at the same time. let me talk with you a little bit about the committee. i get briefings on an ongoing basis of what is happening in the world. i made every single vote on the armed services committee that what you're doing is politicizing the situation where americans ought to be unified. i want to protect america. gardner: i think that you are politicizing your tv commercial the president said that his policies are going to be on the ballot. the president said that. when you vote as many times as you have 99% of the time when you are tied to the line and sinker who admitted the two of you are together on the ballot. listen to his words. the islamic state is not an imminent threat to the nation.

that's what he said and he won't even show up at the emerging threat hearings. but congress job approval was hovering in the low teens into the gridlock in washington. which member of the u.s. senate do you think is responsible for that environment? mr. udall plaques udall: the country is divided into there are different points of view and we reflect that. i also think we are called upon to be the leaders that rise above that and i know that when they look at my record of a sea that i've done that and a host of ways and they also can see the congressman gardner talks about this member she has been 99% in the republican leadership in the house. house. if you want to talk about numbers, the extreme record on everything from reproductive health to supporting minimum wage workers to climate change

100% no he is in he's in the wrong place when it comes to his record. what we've got to do is work together and i have a record on the line-item veto on the recreation act that is going to create more job opportunities in and the mountain communities. my record of working across the aisle is one that i'm proud of and i will continue if the with the people send me back for a second term. gardner: hairy reid has reed has made it the most dysfunctional place on earth. what we must do is replace terry reed. senator udall will vote once again to be the leader of the united states senate. there've been over 340 pieces of legislation that passed the house of has passed the house of representatives, many with bipartisan support. the jobs legislation to create energy opportunities and to put people back to work including women who've been deprived of the opportunity to earn good paying jobs because of your

failed economy. harry reid is refusing harry reid is refusing to bring those bills up. so the fact that we had dysfunction in washington is because we have a senator that change the rule. senator you broke the rules to change the rules and to stifle the debate. that was harry reid's idea and you followed 99% of the time. >> moderator: mr. udall? udall: let's look at the record in colorado of the accomplishments we have all shared and i've been proud to lead the efforts to ensure that we have the $770 million in flood recovery. it wasn't helped by the support of the shutdown a year ago. we worked together to ensure we have the state-of-the-art firefighting capability in the state. we lead in the best of the above energy approach. there is a lot that we've done in colorado we will continue to do because we are collaborators and we know that they are linked together and i'm going to take that back to washington, d.c. like i have taken it back oldies

last six years. >> moderator: speaking of the shutdown, it came at the same time colorado tried to cope with the historical flooding. you claimed you never take the votes to shut down the government that you should at least be those that led to the shutdown. mr. udall, your comments about mr. gardner left the impression for the different flooding victims. what is the story here? gardner: is a tragic occurrence where people lost lives and lives were damaged or destroyed by the spirit of the work the senator indicted together. when we worked together to provide flood relief for the people. i sat in your office to work on the legislation that you were bragging about. we worked together to find solutions for people in need but the vice president of the united states was in colorado and said even if there was a government

shutdown, flood relief wouldn't be impacted. we asked the vice president about that and i don't know if senator udall asked about the commitment or not the perfect is that we worked together to provide solutions to colorado. we have heard a lot of talk about somebody that says we need to get a collaboration and cooperation committee and we did that during the flood to provide much-needed relief. and i'm sad to the senator decided that it is okay. in fact it is his political determination to politicize a tragedy that does not deserve to be used. specifically wrote on a helicopter and we were unified and we pursue the devastation and headed back to washington, d.c. with a focus on providing relief and support to the people of colorado. i don't know what happened on that plane ride ride that when you got off in washington, d.c., you took a different approach.

i don't know whether that was the key party or your ideology that you voted to shut down the government the facts are clear. you delete the recovery. talk to the 128 national guard people who were put on hold and the units around the country that were willing to come to colorado to provide the support that they do so well in times of natural disasters. talk to the business community at a minimum $500,000 of activity because the national parks closed and millions of dollars of lost activity around the state because of the government shutdown. it was irresponsible, reckless and if you represent the state you don't turn your back in times of travail and that is what was asked. >> you don't politicize the tragedy or turnaround to the people after we worked together and try to create campaign and political opportunities from people who suffered.

we worked together in just a side by side and stood together in the mountains to talk about the roadwork that we had been able to accomplish together. we start with the directors talking about how we were going to work together. what is irresponsible. and the fact that you politicize tragedy for your own political gain. >> moderator: does this president obama have the authority to take action on illegal immigration and if not for this the risk of having obama act? >> moderator: the question is intended to begin with mr. gardner. i gave a rebuttal so it might be his. >> moderator: we have it written wrong on the script. you're already working together. [laughter]

i think the question was about immigration reform. if so what should he he decide to cover and what risk is there in having him there? the senate passed a bipartisan bill and the senate over the house a year and a half ago and nothing has happened. every business leader called for comprehensive immigration reform and many of the communities want to see the right focus when it comes to enforcing the law and and i do bb for president in the absence of action on the house of representatives should consider all of his options. we are splitting up too many families about to be focused on criminals and people in public safety risks. i called the congressman gardner to act. he said we ought to take the reform and steps that he hasn't taken one step to move immigration reform to the finish line. if we want to secure the borders in the context of this very dangerous world that we are world that we are and we ought to have the complaints of reform and let them know that we have hired people with the right papers and have the confidence

of immigration reform if we want to keep families together lets pass comprehensive immigration reform. the congressman has been missing in action. >> moderator: same question. gardner: i strongly support immigration reform testified over the house judiciary committee about the need for the immigration reform that we are in business today because of this mess today because of the field leadership in the white house, failed leadership from the senator. look at the situation on the southern border this year. we are in the this situation because the president failed to act in coordination with the congress, the house, senate and the white house on the solutions that we can agree to. the president himself said he lacks the executive order. that is the president himself has said. over a year ago he said he does. let's work together on immigration solutions. the senator said he wants to focus on criminals when it comes to immigration. when the senator's been told several years ago voted to make undocumented individuals the

felons in this country i wonder if he's still focusing on be leaving that they are criminals and i would like to know whether the senator believes that they are still felons in his mind according to his boat. when he had a chance to vote for immigration reform he chose carbon taxes instead. >> moderator: the senator has a chance to rebut. udall: we have sent a broadly supported a bill over to the house of representatives and again i'm calling on you to exert some leadership. let's open it up before the house. you house. you had a vote that would pass with over 250 votes. i've acted. you haven't. the president wants to act and he's considering all of his options but let's talk about moving the country forward. it's seen as a strength of america. >> moderator: we are back to the question specific and we begin with the senator.

you started out giving an answer about whether you plan to campaign with the president. now you have been mocked for saying the last person they want to see walking up the line is you. what is your opinion of the job that rocco barack obama has done? udall: you have some fun at my expense but what i was saying is i have a colorado companies and that's how i served when i agreed with the president i agree with george bush when he voted going into afghanistan getting that have the ban and bin laden. president obama presents a strategy to go after isil i stand with president obama. when he's spying on americans and they spy on the senate, i gave my point of view very clearly. when president bush wanted to go into iraq i made it clear i

thought we should finish the job in afghanistan but when both presidents supported comprehensive reform i supported those. so if it's where they are on the wrong track and going to speak out as i have in the past and i will continue to do so in the future. >> please explain the policy difference between the federal act that you were cosponsoring and in the state personhood measures that you announced you were wrong to support the cause they banned certain forms of birth control. i do not support the personhood amendment. they said the change in the position should be considered a virtue and not a vice. the federal act that you are referring to is a statement that i support. you said you have a colorado compass but you might try to get gps because they are leaving the state on the path.

>> moderator: we are going to go back to the specific question monday was a historic movement for the movement. much has been made on the right side of history when it comes to rights. younger republicans have been advocating for a quality and marriage. do you think that it's time to change your position? gardner: ibb people must be treated with dignity and respect and that's why i will abide by the decision of the courts but i think this is an important issue that we don't try to use for that political points but instead to talk about how we can provide dignity and respect and make sure that we are focusing on issues i hear around the state as well making sure people have opportunities to build stronger families and again i believe that those are the things we can do together. >> moderator: your campaign

has been so focused on these women's issues that you have been dubbed mark uterus. [laughter] they said any image of you as a bipartisan walk across the aisle has been significantly diminished. the colorado junior senator michael bennett is actually the centrist. that this interest. that is harsh criticism. have they gone too far? udall: colorado is the second state that ran for the franchise to women. if the congressman had until this entire political career on limiting the reproductive choices we wouldn't be having this discussion today. we wage this campaign on other issues and touched on many of them here today. hopefully we will talk about energy which is a particular passion of mine. we also want to make sure the economy is working for everybody. if you look at the traffic in my campaign they have discussed those kind of topics. the congressman doesn't want to

have this discussion because his record is extreme and you don't have to look any further than the first amendment would ban all forms of abortion into the ban was forms of contraception. he's also passed a series of other anti-women votes. he voted to make emergency contraception available. he wanted to change the rates so they would have a hard time prosecuting perpetrators in court. the congressman has a long record of wanting to limit women's reproductive rights. it's that simple. >> moderator: at the end of each round you get 60 seconds to answer should you wish to take it. we will begin with mr. gardner. do you believe humans are contributing significantly to climate change? yes or no? gardner: this is an important issue and i don't think you can say yes or no.

i disagree in the extent that it's been in the news -- >> moderator: at the end you will each be given a minute to respond to the questions if you would like to. gardner: this is a serious debate in a serious issue and i don't think we should shortchange with yes or no answers being able to talk about them now. >> moderator: they are meant to be answered yes or no because they should come from the core belief that he would hold. we've go to the senator dvd are contributing said that the complete debate significantly to climate change text that you support a ban on same-sex marriage? udall: this was a ballot initiative a number of years ago gardner: yes. >> moderator: to >> moderator: do you support the death penalty? gardner: yes.

>> moderator: mr. udall? udall: no. >> moderator: did you support a ballot measure that legalized pot and cover rather wax udall: no. gardner: no. >> moderator: are there rules for marijuana businesses to gain access to banking? gardner: yes. udall: yes. >> moderator: should the taxpayers bill of rights be changed or altered? udall: no. tabor. >> moderator: >> moderator: said it is no? udall: it shouldn't be changed. >> moderator: mr. gardner? gardner: go. >> moderator: do you support casino style gambling as proposed by eminent and 65? gardner: no. udall: no. >> moderator: visa for the construction of the keystone pipeline? is one of. udall: if it is completed, yes. >> moderator: yes. >> moderator: we will go back to you and you have 60 seconds

-- well how about 30 seconds to respond? gardner: these are very important issues that many cannot be described as yes or no and that's why it's important when it comes to things like the environment that we talk about how yes the climate is changing and i said that all a long but i disagree to the extent ma'am is causing it and i refuse to destroy the economy like the senator wanted to pursue some radical ideas to stop supporters are in favor of that i also find it curious that senator supports tabor when he supported the tax increase after-tax increase at the state level. >> moderator: mr. udall? udall: udall: as radical as congress and gardner continuing the denial that the climate change is occurring. we have preeminent scientists in the state and we are seeing the effects in the industry. you know what the good news is? we are situated to leave the

country, we have a best of the above energy approach. we can meet this challenge. we are going to innovate and have new jobs and enhance our environment and have great geopolitical flexibility because we are dependent right now on the oil supplies from around the world. this is a contrast scene today. >> moderator: we have questions for each of you. gentlemen, this month's job report exceeded expectations with 240,000 jobs bringing the national unemployment rate down to 9.5%. that is the latest that overall showed that the job growth. but another study showed the household income in colorado dropped by 5.2% from 2007 through 2013. what needs to happen to regain momentum for the middle-class and lower income families and people start with mr. udall. udall: i mentioned some of the policy initiatives we ought to pursue.

we ought to raise the minimum wage. the last president of signed president signed the minimum wage increases president bush. we ought to pass the act would pay the same for doing equal work. how about making college more affordable? i joined forces with a number of senators including elizabeth warren said the students and families could the student loans which are a big burden on families and the students. we ought to provide incentives to keep jobs here and not ship them overseas. why do i bring this up? the congressman gardner has a different view on those issues. we need to expand the job opportunities. and to ensure that those of us going as the market for the new employment had this kind of skills that have come from that kind of job training as well as our younger americans who need to have skill sets that are unique to the 21st century. i belief if we don't respond we run the risk of the middle class not being a strong part of our society that it's already been.

>> moderator: same question. gardner: it's time we get the government out of the way and let america work. we must each be do much of a real spirit of the country. we live in a nation where the big business started in small barrages. mark udall's policies voting with the president 99% of the time have sent this country back. as a result of the failed policies, we now have colorado earning 400,000 less than the median household income over the past several years. the participation rate is lower than 36 years. that is what is happening under the field leadership of mark udall. we can expand the earned income tax credit that i supported that hasn't been introduced that looks at elie and people out of poverty. we have to put in place and move forward on the keystone pipeline that would provide more than one wage opportunity. giving people 20 to 30-dollar a hour work that the senator voted against four times. we need more colorado and

washington and with washington and colorado. unfortunately our economy is in reverse and it's the middle class feeling the burden of the policies. udall: i never downbeat among colorado, and your announcement this year you said the future was fading in colorado. we've been through a lot of challenges and i don't care what we've been proved you don't talk down colorado because this is the most wonderful state in the nation with the most wonderful people living here and i will tell you one other thing you are proposing that wouldn't help and that is to gut social security and privatize medicare gardner: i will protect and preserve -- udall: -- and the budgets in the house. >> moderator: the u.s. national debt is approaching $18 trillion. can we get a handle on the debt and reduce the deficit without raising taxes? and what significant cuts would

you support to balance the budget? gardner: we can start by repealing obamacare. we must put in place a balanced budget agreement. the senator udall has exempted large portions of spending from it. we also have to pass legislation that i introduced in a bipartisan measure that would eliminate the duplicate of programs allowing people to save billions of dollars for the duplication of inefficiencies in government. i will make sure that we live within our means of the congress. we are spending money that future generations cannot handle. it would break the economy. national security advisers have said it is one of the gravest threats the country faces. let's look at what the senator's record has meant when he was elected to the congress the national debt was $5 trillion. after voting consistently with the white house in washington,

d.c. is now over $17 trillion we can't afford it and future generations deserve better. >> moderator: same question for you. udall: you heard the congressman gardner say he would repeal. let's put the insurance companies in charge. that would be a great day. he voted to trim medicaid into a voucher company. that would be another bad day for seniors. i have long been a leader on budgetary matters in this and previous to that in the house. they want to see a return on taxpayer dollars but they are willing to invest and i supported the approach. i asked the congressman to join us because it strikes a balance between fast expanding and strengthening the benefits and reforming the tax code. let's trip up some of the subsidies and incentives but that don't really drive that god growth.

i did offer an amendment. the only exemptions that he talks about or for social security and medicare we ought to make sure we keep those programs in place. >> moderator: 30 seconds. gardner: just yesterday at the chamber debate he admitted that he voted to cut $800 billion from a day care advantage. that's what he admitted yesterday at the debate. we should protect and preserve the social safety net including medicare and social security. the plan is bankruptcy for the programs because she has no plan. i believe we can grow our economy economy and pass the amendment and repeal and replace obamacare with solutions that will work and we can end this and that it poses a threat to the country. >> moderator: we have another question. which of the entitlement programs would you look at two reform or make cuts in to see you support raising the age to

receive social security benefits, please elaborate. udall: we had a robust debate at the chamber and the point i was making is that the congressman voted to cut $800 billion out of medicare advantage directed into the tax cuts for millionaires. but i have done is redirect the money out of medicare advantage because insurance companies were reaping a nice profit and not providing services to extend the solvency and life of medicare. there's a difference in the way that we have supported medicare. i support the plan which i just mentioned earlier. it lays out a roadmap if if you will to the ways we can continue to invest in the future which is infrastructure to make sure our children have access to

affordable education that we are doing at the renewable energy and that is to get at some of the broad questions in the goal that you laid out. >> moderator: same question. gardner: if you're a medicare advantage advantage in colorado you're having our medicare advantage but if it is part he just admitted he voted in the back to cut medicare advantage by $700 billion. ideally we must protect and preserve the social safety net for all generations. that's why i supported the efforts to make sure we not only uphold and preserve the promise that strengthen medicare. what happens in a few short years is bankruptcy if we don't do anything. what happens if the u.s. government continues to borrow against it is insolvency. the government must stop borrowing against the social security and protect medicare by preserving it for future generations. what the senator has done is admitted that for the thousands of medicare advantage around the state will have their benefits

cut. >> moderator: congressman? udall: that takes real gumption to accuse me of cutting medicare when you voted to cut medicare and send the money into the tax cuts. but i did is redirect the resources medicare advantage is alive and well and a lot of people in colorado are in medicare advantage but what we did is provide additional incentives for the health insurers and providers to meet the goals and let me finish we extended the life for six years. your votes matter. you can't go around saying that your votes don't matter. >> moderator: there've been two tragedies and we consider stricter gun laws. when it comes to the second amendment what values feature

future federal gun legislation and how does that differ from your opponent click udall: be joined in prayer around the country when we watched what happened and what is happening around the country. it's unacceptable that kind of violence that has occurred and i believe we have an obligation to every generation to prevent this from occurring in the first place. that's why i worked to make sure that we find mental-health solutions to address something before it can slip through the cracks to address the needs of people whose voices are going unheard because of the terrible tragedies that they could commit or that could occur if we don't reach out to those voices first. i am a staunch defender and believer in the second amendment. in colorado we had for the first time the recalls and the senator

supports gun-control restrictions that are even more restrictive than the measures that led to the recall of the state senators. udall: my mother was the first that taught me how to handle a gun and she was a member i wish that she were still alive because i would apologize to her every day how i behaved as a teenager but that's another discussion. frankly it is unacceptable that he won't stand with the majority of the support universal background checks. we ought to keep an out of the hands of the fill-in. it's a common sense approach and you have rejected it. i do agree with you and i'm excited we are agreeing on some and we ought to do more on mental health and also do more research into gun violence because these shootings are beyond tragic. i will never forget the six and seven-year-olds at sandyhook a

year and a half, two years ago. we can't forget what happened and there are some common things we can do. the background check law bans that over 70 individuals who shouldn't have firearms. gardner: it was the comment when he said he supported the gun-control measure even more restrictive than the ones that passed in colorado that he voted for because he felt it was worth giving it a shot. he's described the second amendment rights not as a constitutional right as a tradition. our constitution has writes. the second amendment is a right. it's not the second amendment. >> moderator: gentleman mr. udall has been hammered, repeatedly hammered with the president voting for president barack obama 90% of the time.

mr. gardner has been billed as too extreme for colorado. address the attacks against you mr. udall. .. the personhood is a minute is a great example of you supported the person in a minute. he said earlier he doesn't supported by the still on the federal bill. let me remind you what we do

that it would ban all forms of abortion and most forms of contraception. the reason this is objectionable, the women of colorado have reproductive rights and we are to trust them to make -- >> moderator: time. gardner: senator udall wanted to defend his 99% voting record with the president, it's understandable because the president said that his policies are indeed on the ballot. you'll be voting with a person who is only disagreed with the president 1% of the time, or for someone who believes it's not extreme to oppose a takeover of our health care system. that it's not extreme to support better economic opportunities, that it is not extreme to support energy across this country to create jobs and opportunity. i believe we can do better in this country. i believe we can do better if we put colorado first instead of washington. after 16 years in washington senator udall has decided just run away from his own record because he can't defend

obamacare. you can't depend -- event is energy policy. he can't defend his economic policies. what i support for people across this country is opportunity come is to make sure we open up jobs by getting government out of the way, to make sure we are reducing the tax burden on families making college affordable. >> moderator: mr. udall. gardner: to the contrary . udall: to the conjure i'm running on my record. congressman gardner is running away from his record and you've seen that on issues like personhood, climate, minimum wage is votes to gut social security and turn medicare into a voucher program. his vote to deny a program that would track sexual predators. his record is extreme if you look at it even further it would take us backward. we wanted to call about a forward. >> moderator: now become to the point in the debate where we allow you to ask questions of each other that each of you get

to ask two questions of your opponent. and we start with mr. udall. your first question. udall: congressman, you have, as i just said, sent mixed messages to the people of colorado when it comes to women's reproductive rights. a law like the conception law would ban abortion and it would ban most common forms of contraception. i'm just curious what would happen if that would become the law the land. you clearly this is something we out to the but given your long record and your long history of supporting this initiative. gardner: that bill is a statement i support life. i believe we had to expand access for women's health including the opportunity to allow contraception to be sold over the counter out a prescription. the opportunity to make sure we change obamacare to allow it to be reimbursed by interest. that's what i believe.

udall: let me follow up. were you to be in the senate, the life conception act is a bullets been introduced in the senate. would you sponsor a life of conception act? this is an important question. this is a question the coloradans deserve an answer on and you've given mixed answers with a series of interviews over the last number of weeks it and, frankly, it's unclear where you stand. you and i have enormous differences almost every policy matter and i respect that, but you all coloradans a clear set of positions on these important issues that matter to coloradans, millions of coloradans who think this is very important and it speaks more loudly and more broadly about your respect for women, one of you keep your word and what you really believe. gardner: thank you. against the bill in the house is a statement i support life. i have not seen the bill in the senate, believe it or not.

so i look forward to working with everyone across this country to address the concerns that you've rightfully stated. we need to work together on. >> moderator: mr. gardner, it shifts to your turn. your first question. gardner: senator udall, the islamic state is a growing threat to the region and to our country. recently it has become the news, in the news, that you have not only missed every public airing of the emerging threat on the subcommittee but your attendance at the senate armed services committee has only been 64% as the islamic state can use to present an imminent threat to our nation. where were you? what was more important that our national security? udall: as i said earlier i chair the strategic forces subcommittee which is crucial to

colorado's military community. i sit on the armed services committee. i am briefed on an ongoing basis, also as a member of the intelligence committee on what's happening not only in the middle east but around the world. as i said earlier i've made all of those on the armed services committee, and i take that as an important responsibility. but what you're doing here is again trying to distract people from your record and you're forgetting that we're in this together. that isil isn't going to target us based on a political party or the region of country which we live. they will target is because we are americans. i would ask you to stop politicizing this very, very series threat. politics ought to end at water's edge. i would remind everybody here, too, that a year ago when i was calling for airstrike century, congressman gardner, said what's happening in city isn't a threat for national security. i don't think you were paying attention back then so let's

stop parsing words and let's start protecting america. >> moderator: your second question. gardner: senator udall you have recently launched a television ad were you talk about your support for equal pay. i support equal pay. and yet in your office you pay women 86 cents for every 1 dollar that you pay a man. why don't you live by example in your office? udall: congressman, you know that this is a strategy that you see writ large around the country, republican operatives everywhere have made his case to i'm reminded of what mark twain famously said about statistics many years ago. let me make it clear. i pay the women on my team the same for equal work. what you're doing is the striking coloradans from your record which is not pro-women. he voted against the paycheck fairness act as i mentioned earlier he voted against raising the minimum wage. you to think what the broader access to pell grants. we have had as you know a robust

conversation about respecting women's reproductive rights. it's clear that what you want to do it again is distract the voters in colorado from your record which is extreme, which is not in the mainstream. you change position in the number of ways, and, frankly, at best you promote the status quo which in today's world, innovate and re-created will take us backward. my focus is on moving us forward. as i said we'd pay the women on my team the same for equal work. gardner: 86 cents for every 1 dollar you pay a man. >> moderator: thank you children. were coming to the closing arguments portion of the debate. again thank you all for coming and thank you, gentlemen, both for attending our debate according to the coin toss, mr. gardner chose to go first. you have the floor traffic thank you and thanks again for hosting this. i talked a lot about my hometown. if you go to yuma colorado

u.s.a. a little chunk of concrete that says jas and some 1910. that was my great, great grandfathers hardware store the became a business that is still endemic that will be 100 years old tomorrow. every evening when my wife and i get the chance to take the kids for a walk by that little chunk of concrete we wonder if our children will have the same opportunities that their great, great, great grandfather did. to move the family, to create a better way of life, to build opportunity. deeply don't change the way things work in washington, if we don't change this country and start putting colorado first, creating opportunity for the next generation, the answer will be no, they won't have the same opportunity. but i will never shy away from the greatness of our country and i believe that we have the ability to change washington, d.c., that color can be the vanguard of the movement to make sure we're turning this country around, create jobs and opportunities and fulfilling our moral obligation. that is to make sure that we pass on a stronger nation to our children and grandchildren at a better starting point than the

one we inherited. >> moderator: mr. udall. udall: the greatest honor of my life is bound to represent this difficult road independent senate. this is a special state with special people and a special history. we've accomplished a lot over these last years and we've been challenged with the floods and fires. we stood up and we've been rugged collaboration editing proud to be a part of the. our economy is coming back, contrary to what congressman gardner is saying but there's more work to be done. when you get past minimum wage and respect women's place in the workplace and at your college is affordable. elections are about the future. elections or competitions about vision and policies and style. there's a clear set of choices in this election. congressman gardner talk to represent a new generation and new republican but look at the new generation. the new generation please immediately called the, believe in immigration reform, believes in women's reproductive rights, believes in climate change. a new generation doesn't stand

with congressman gardner. he doesn't believe in those things. the new generation stands i should say all generations stand with me. i ask for your vote on november 4 because working together we can keep this wonderful state of colorado moving forward. thank you. [applause] >> moderator: thank you. >> c-span's campaign 2014 is the only network or any more than 100 debates for the control of congress. stay in touch with the coverage and engage. follow us on twitter at c-span and lycos at facebook.com/c-span. all debates are available in c-span's video library. >> a look at some of our life programming today on c-span2.

>> we have more campaign 2014 coverage now with another debate, one of over 100 we will bring you this campaign season. up next is is minnesota's eighth district incumbent democratic congressman rick nolan is been challenged by republican stewart mills and green party candidate ray sandman. "the cook political report" list this as leans democratic. it's about one hour and a half.

>> good morning and welcome everybody. i'm roger wedin, director policy and education at the duluth area chamber of commerce. i would like to welcome you to this morning's forum, introduce my friend and fellow moderator chuck frederick is the editor page editor from the duluth news tribune. some acknowledgment this point. i would like to thank our friends at the duluth playhouse for all i to use their facility. they have been generous and gracious in helping us with the logistics of these forms. i would also like to thank our friends at the duluth superior area community foundation and their speaker, your each and a little on the wind delay that expectations of behavior this morning. i would like to remind you of those expectations. please hold your applause until the very end. i will close us out at the fun of out at the arthur brooks from our candidates and then allow you to please express your

appreciation. we won't tolerate any shouting or heckling, no disruptive behavior of any kind will be tolerated. chuck, maybe you can start us off. >> moderator: i want to mention i've already seen, you are allowed to bring science into fear. holding up a t-shirt is like holding up a sign and we won't tolerate that either. i hope you of another shirt on underneath of course but i want to welcome those watching at duluth news tribune.com and my nine on television. i welcome our candidates. i thank you so much for being here. it's a great part of the democratic process. i want to point out a woman in the front row, she is our timekeeper and she will hold, shall be the only one allowed to hold up a sign. she will let you know you 30 seconds left, a minute left to speak. and then when your time is a. so keep an eye on her and get a good site line or. as imaging, candidates answers will be time. opening statements will be two minutes, no rebuttals in opening statements. questions will be commenced and

offer each candidate, all the can is a chance for one minute rebuttal and at the end to a half minutes for closing. congressman nolan as the incumbent we give you the opportunity or the option of either speaking first or having the final say at the end. yoyou are your campaign shows tt the final say. so then decide who is speaking first this morning with a going. roger and i did last week and mr. sandman won the honor of speaking first at the opening. so with that we will get started and start with opening remarks, two minutes, kind of introduce to you our, what your toppers are, whatever you want to say for two minutes. mr. sandman, we will start with you. sandmanr: thank you. first of all, thank you for being in the debate. i'm ray skip sandman. i'm a resident of duluth, i've been here for 25 years, i'm a vietnam vet, tribal elder, and i opening remarks is that as a lot

of you know i oppose -- said the copper sulfate mine, and for what women's equal rights, debt, reduction for students and student loans, and we will go from there. >> moderator: thank you very much. congressman. nolan: i'd like to begin by thanking the duluth chamber for getting us all together and giving everybody a chance to see the candidates and where they stand on various issues. a choice in my judgment in this election contest really could not be more clear. the fact is and it's a despicable, the rich are getting rich in this country and the poor are getting poorer. and the class is getting crushed. and without the american dream is getting crushed. the american dream is not all

about everybody making a super million or a super billion, although there's nothing wrong with that. the american dream is all about having a secure job with a living wage, being able to provide health care for your family, to be comfortable that you'll be able to secure, be secure in your retirement years. be able to send your kids to a good, affordable school and get a good education, to belong to a union and to have someone at the end of the week when you're done paying the bills come to do a little recreation or go to dinner with your family and friends. my dad once told me when i first went into public life, he said, if you do a couple things i will always be proud of you. one is be honest, tell the truth. number two, he said, work for the working men and women in this country. he said, be their champion, don't worry about the rich and the powerful. a do a good job of taking care of themselves.

this election contest i submit is a question of who are you for, our primary opponent in this contest, mr. mills, has made clear who he is for. he has said he wants more tax cuts for super millionaire's and billionaires, and yet at the same time he opposes an increase in the minimum wage. the choice could not be more clear. if you know who you are for, you will know who to vote for in this election contest. i thank you for the opportunity. we will have a spirited debate and i assure you i promise you it will be civil but i'm looking forward to it. thank you. >> moderator: mr. mellis. mills: thank you. thank you much for having me here today. i'm somebody who never thought ever about running for public office. i'm the vice president of our families company, mills fleet farm. my dad and uncle store started n 1955. it's hard work sweat of about -- brow. i grew up working in the

business, cleaning to wisdom sweeping floors, washing cars. hatches that every job there and my current job right now is vice president. one of the things, one of the many hats you in a family business is, well i should sit in a family business you wear many hats. one of those many hats i wear as vice president is looking out for our 6000 employees. one of those hats is plan administered of our countries of injured health plan. i've seen firsthand how obamacare has affected negatively our employees and their families. and not only that, i've seen all throughout our part of minnesota of people have been negatively impacted by higher premiums, higher co-pay, senior network. they are paying more and getting less. congressman nolan, single-payer model, government run to every time government has tried to assume the control of the production of a product, good or service, every time, costs have

gone up in quality has gone down. there's never been an exception anybody who's ever studied economics knows that. also i got outspoken about the second amendment issues. congressman nolan kids back to congress in wednesday been semi automatic rifles, the one he thinks that looks scary and have the government tell us how many bullets you can have in our gun. that earned him a failing grade from the national rifle association. in our family something called the hunting camp doctor but if that hunting camp you complain about something, you get the job to fix it. that's why i'm here today. i had been complaining about some off the bench putting skin in the game and i'm willing to go to washington and there's a lot of things that we have to stand up for for our part in minnesota. congressman nolan is wrong on so many of those issues. thank you. >> moderator: thank you all very much. he touches on the issues we're going to get to but we're going to begin this debate, this candidate for by talking about some of the accusations that are

out there, some of the ugly charges that are out there, some of them ate negative stereotypes and i'd like you to address those. congressman nolan, this isn't necessarily me talking but they say you are as far left as the key parties are right. you're a has-been in any of the second amendment and you don't even know how to hold a gun center. how do you respond to critics who say you've been wrong for the eighth district? nolan: well, let me, i'm not sure where to begin with so many charges. >> moderator: so many insults, i know. nolan: there's 191 members of the democratic caucus, and about 100 are judged to be considered more liberal than i am. so the fact is i am a moderate and i do have a right wing tea party -- i guess he's on your right, okay? not my left. i guess i've got some and probably more than the left to me on my right, or your left. but, you know, i'm just not sure

where to go here but let's just take the f. rating from the nra. the nra is primarily financed by gun manufacturers and gun sales people. like yourself, stewart. they're interested in primarily trying to sell guns. and that's all right. i mean, they have a right to do that, but it's never been more clear that someone like myself supports the second amendment and the right to bear arms. some of my most joyful moments, memorable moments in life have been with a gun in my hand. i hunted with my dad last weekend. my wife and i are out duck hunting with her grandson. my wife and i were married 30 years ago. first present i bought for her on her birthday, her first birthday was a 20 gauge shotgun. and i don't mind telling you, she was thrilled to have it but she did look a little

disappointed. i think she was kind of hoping for something a little more romantic. so on her second birthday i bought her a 30.06 with a scope on it. stewart, i've been buying my guns and ammunition, and my family and i have from her dad and granddad store for all of our life. i support the second amendment for hunting, for personal protection, for sport shooting. is a fundamental basic right but that doesn't mean we can have some gun safety like background checks. i mean, you support selling guns to people who have been found to be criminally insane or terrorist? >> moderator: we'll get to the gun issue in a bit. your time is up am sorry to say. mr. mills, a knock against you, millionaire party or, doesn't know him a challenges faced by most americans. you support tax breaks for the rich at the expense of the middle class but how do you respond to critics who say you won't work for the eighth

district? mills: i've worked hard all my life, and in our business we didn't have a choice but it was something we did at a very young age. my father grew up in the great depression and worked -- work was only a necessity but a virtue but i'm not but a virtue do i not record labels have a very joyful life. but we live in a work hard play hard part of minnesota. and if they want to pick on my hair, it shows they don't want to talk about the issues. there are things that are facing our part of minnesota, and issues are it's healthier, it's obamacare, it's our second amendment rights which we will talk about the it's a fact rick nolan voted for a job skill in carbon tax a tax and energy that would strangle our part of minnesota economically. it's also about the fact and i'm endorsed by the farm bureau, but the fact representative nolan voted in favor, voted in favor of the water, the epa water you as well. i'd love to talk about the these

issues, not about my hair and the fact that my family, myself included because the family business is about one person or one generation, it's about the entire family, even family farms, that applies to family farms, we work hard, reinvest back into businesses and that grows jobs and sustained the jobs that we have. they want to attack a business, picking them we are not publicly traded or there's no venture capital money. there's no private equity money. it's a family business like any other entity want to protect me and my family for the success and the jobs we have created, well then, that's the message is picking on my hair. >> moderator: i forgot to ask about your. thank you for bringing it up last night mr. sandman -- [laughter] fretboard mr. sandman come you have even longer here. what you say to critics of being a one issue candidate? sandman: it's a very big issue.

and critics call me a lot of different things, but i look, if we don't have water we don't have life. when i was a veteran in the service i do stand up in front of a bunch of people, and i to raise my hand, and i took that oath to protect this country from foreign and domestic. that means a lot to me because i was never released from that oath. therefore, i see what's happening up there and what's proposed to go up in the iron range as a direct attack on america. they will come in, they will do their processing and extraction, but then when that's done, they pac up and leave. they don't care about the people. they don't care about the money.

they don't care about the environment. we have -- we do not have the science to clean up a spill. look at history of that type of mining throughout the world, there's never been a safe one. and for the life of me i cannot understand how to do 500 jobs are worth our future. wants that stuff gets into the water, there's no guarantee. it will destroy our tourism which brings in northern minnesota about 200-$800 million per year. how many jobs will be lost when it leaks? how many? doesn't matter which party you are, but we have to do the right

thing. both my opponents here say something completely different. short-term, i don't. i looked for a long-term. we need that here in northern minnesota. we need someone looking after our children and after our future generations. it may not happen in our time, not 20, 30 years down the road it will. >> moderator: thank you very much, mr. sandman. we will get back to the mining issue in a minute. i'm going to offer each of the candidates a chance for a one minute rebuttal if they want it. on these negative type stereotypes and responses. congressman nolan, would you like . nolan: i would. mr. nelson says he's never been a government program that works. stewart complies that you might want to take a look at social security. might want to take a look at medicare. i know your pop party platform

calls for advertising and abolishing both of them. most people agreed they work quite well. with regard to clean air, clean water, our member when they had to haul clean water, drinking one into duluth because the water was so polluted. i remember when the lakes and rivers were so polluted that they were catching on fire and acid rain was destroyed our forests and lakes. i don't apologize for supporting clean water and clean air. i have a good environmental record, and i don't apologize for that. as for the ack, my goodness, you know, people with cancer -- aca, heart disease and parkinson's are now able to get a portal interest because of that. people able to keep their kids on their insurance. people are protected from bankruptcy. women are not charge more for the same policy that a man is charged for. you really oppose those things i want to repeal all those important advancements? of course there's things that need to be changed in the

affordable care act. it's done a lot of good for a lot of people, and effort you say that there are not many people who suffer those circumstances. well, i'm here to tell you there are a lot of people who suffer those circumstances and are grateful for the affordable care act. >> moderator: thank you very much. mr. mills, one minute. mills: just to correct a couple things. first of all i never said there aren't many people that have pre-existing touc -- what he sas plan administrator the rtp the iphone across that are not covered by diplomatic which allows you to go from your -- hipaa. also i never said that there was a federal government program that never worked. nolan: you to set a minute ago. mills: what i said was whenever government has taken over the production of a product, good or service, costs have gone up in holy has gone down. i'm not like about social stood in medicare. in the past you have said that i wanted to abolish sources duty.

it's not true. you've also said i want to turn medicare into -- not too. i challenge you to substantiate those remarks without editing my words to get out of context. nolan: thank you for the children the libertarian party to which you. >> moderator: congressman, can we give mr. sandman a turn first? sandman: talk about affordable health care, we need to make it affordable. we need to make it affordable that still need to be taken out and we don't have to start from the bottom up again but we need to pull the best parts out of there and make it affordable. if you're a single mother with two children or three children, you cannot afford what is being offered out there now. especially if you have a low paying job, minimum-wage job. it needs to be what it says, affordable for everyone. >> moderator: very good. thank you, roger. sandman: thank you.

>> moderator: farmers and agribusiness equally complain that oil shipping is tying up the railroads, impacting delivery of crops to market. discussion of that issue off leads to the question of pipelines. what is your position on safe. >> moderator: of oil, the backlog of the commodities market, and ultimately where do you stand on expansion of pipelines? mr. noll in. nolan: certainly i support expansion of pipelines your representative nolan said he supported the keystone pipeline when he got to washington and voted against the bill that would have made it that much more closer to the project going forward. he said he was for the pipeline and then he said just not on this route. well, if we change the root of the enbridge sign -- separator pipe like, you delay it by four to five years and across an additional $509 effectively killing the project if we look

at a $25 million which is tax or that would come into our part of minnesota, that's $4 million a year alone for a king county which sorely needs the tax would be. i'm endorsed by the farm bureau and when i talk to those guys, they have trouble getting their products to market. because the rail cars are loaded with crude coming off of the bakken. we need to go forward with the pipeline. they can do it safely. we need to go forward with the keystone pipeline. our economy depends on. you cannot be for jobs and kids the activities that create jobs. >> moderator: thank you. mr. sandman, your opinion, position on shipping oil and pipelines. sandman: that's a hard decision for me because whether proposing to put that pipeline at runs underneath a lot of water, runs underneath a lot of wetlands.

and if you watch the news, there's been all kinds of toxic spills up there. is the science safe enough? i don't know. i don't think so. i know the president just the other day, or someone, i may be wrong, talked about getting new tankers. why not split the bat? some for green, some for farm products, some for the oil. but definitely reevaluate those routes that they are talking about the i know we need oil, but at what cost? how is it benefiting us? mr. mills talk about some tax revenue coming through. will that outweigh the still if we have to clean it up bikes there some real issues -- clean

it up? there's some real issues and real thought to our environment that we need to think about and start doing about. i'm proactive rather than reactive. we need to sit down at the table with the people involved and bring all these issues and concerns of the people. before make a final decision on it, but where i stand right now, no. know on that pipeline. it's just like hydraulics. we tried pushing more oil through it, eventually it's going to pop somewhere. we need to look at that. thank you. >> moderator: congressman? nolan: first of all, i have taken the time to study the consequences of rail versus highway versus pipelines. and to be sure there are problems associated with each and every one of them, and none

of them are perfect your but with regard to sandpiper and with regard to keystone, you know, i do in fact support both of them but mr. sandman has made a couple of good points. and i would like to add to the. first of all there's probably 40,000 miles of pipelines running through minnesota right now. every road has a pipeline running down it. they are everywhere. i am convinced in my mind that pipelines had to be a part of the knicks. they do in fact have a lower carbon footprint. they do have, are less prone to danger, an accident but and if we use american steel in those pipelines, as i have proposed in my legislation, they will be even safer. but when you talk about keystone, a tea party

republicans brought a bill before the house back that exempted keystone, a foreign corporation from having to comply with epa, from having to get army corps of engineers permits for installation and for maintenance, for having to post financial assurances when those accidents inevitably occur. would hav you have voted for a l like that? no. i am for keystone and i'm for sandpiper but i wanted to be done right. we've proven we have the technology and the know-how to do these things and to do it right if we have the political will. but we can't let foreign corporations come in here willy-nilly and have their way with us. the same can be said of sandpiper. mr. sandman has pointed out the some of that is going through some very fragile soils and waters, and we need sandpiper but we can alter the route a little bit to make sure that we protect our precious waters. that's what i'm for. i'm for pipelines but i've are doing it the right way to for

i.t. mr. mills, a rebuttal. mills: i keep getting accused of being a tea party or and i'm not sure that's entirely accurate, but nonetheless, you know, the epa and army corps of engineers has been weaponize against projects such as keystone. and you know what? after years and years of trying to get it done and get these agencies are not looking how it can be done, trying to come up with every reason how it can be stopped, you know what? it's time to get the people's to take control of their government again from the bureaucracies and that there is agencies so we can get projects like keystone going, so we can improve our balance of trade, our balance of payments, so we can become energy independent and then become a net exporter of energy. so whether it's keystone, whether it's polymet, enough is enough. we have to get on with it. this is jobs, it's our economy.

this is the worst economic recovery in u.s. history. we have various government agencies and bureaucracies are no good reason, all the hoops heaven shall all the hoops have been shown to come the isa been doctor. let's get on with it. let's reignite our economy. >> moderator: mr. sandman, do you care to respond? sandman: not at this time. i mean, it doesn't make sense to me why endanger our wetlands for what it would bring to us. it does not offset. i always look -- mr. mills made a statement of camp doctrine, leaving it better. i don't see that happening. when it does break. we don't have that technology. we don't have the funding for it. i can't see them stepping forward and doing it. i really don't.

>> moderator you know, we really need to take a look at this. this is dangerous. this is dangerous for the small term benefit, for the long-term effects that will happen. it's not will it happen but when it happens. >> moderator: thank you. congressman come any final thoughts? nolan: not to be repetitious but like i said i grew up in a time when the lakes and rivers were so polluted they were catching on fire. the mississippi river, we go down in the spring and there were plenty paper and condoms and that was the good stuff. that wasn't the toxic stuff. [laughter] and judge all drinking water into duluth and acid rain was destroying our forest and her legs, you've got to have jobs or environment or you can't have both but guess what? we went to work. we proved we have the brains, we have the technology to do both

here and to do both we must. our waters are precious to our jobs our precious. our money, our manufacturing is precious. rebuilding this middle class is precious. with regard to the economics of that you don't rebuild the middle class by giving more tax cuts to the superrich and billionaires and fighting against a minimum wage for people have to work two to three jobs just to make a living. that's not rebuilding the middle class. that's not restoring the balance and that's not restoring the american dream. >> moderator: thank you, congressman for the soundbite. our next issue -- [laughter] perhaps the most polarizing issue in northern minnesota and, of course, we're in northern minnesota has been precious metals mining, the copper nickel mining, the people saying government is dragging their feet. it's taking too long, it's taken nine years that folks say can't possibly done safely. gentlemen, where do you stand on

copper nickel mining? can it be done safely? any confidence? mr. sandman, this is your big issue. we will start with you. sandman: no, it cannot be done safely. not at this time, and even though we do not have the science for that. so i suppose that wholeheartedly because i know -- oppose that wholeheartedly. i know what it can do. about a month ago, a mine up there in british columbia broke and don't 5 billion gallons of toxic waste into the river. now, it's the same technologies that the mine is proposing in the containment field for that polluted water. but where there looking at putting that is already in the mine that is already leaking into the watershed. so i don't support that at all. but what i do support is the

northern lights passenger train. i think my opponents will agree we need to get big money out of congress. we need to stop giving subsidies to the corporations. we need to have the corporations start paying their darn taxes. now we can redirect some of that funding into northern minnesota so that we can go on with other projects that are less environmental deadly, and we talk about two to 300 jobs. northern lights, you're talking about the other day, 13,800 jobs for the district. that's something to look at.

they may be temporary, but three, four years down the road, maybe something else will happen. we don't need that mine up there. >> moderator: thank you very much. representative nolan come on precious metals mining. nolan: first of all, i grew up on the iron range. mining is a huge part, what we do and who we are. our economy has been set up here is based on timber, taconite, tourism. nobody enjoys the great outdoors more than we do up here. our water, our forests, our lakes. we treasure them. that's why we live here. but i reject the argument that, because something has never been done before safely, that it can't be done. it was never and internal combustion engine to there was never a catalytic converter, or there was never a scrubber on a

coal-fired power plant to scrub the sulfur out of them. we did not the scrubbers to take all the toxic waste out of our lakes and our rivers and our streams. i submit, i submit that we now have the technology, we now have the brainpower. all we have to have is the resolve and the will to do it right. on your right ear, my opponents suggest we should do away with all these epa regulations and onerous rules are rules and regulations which by the way have clean up our air and our water. and in a little over one generation, increased life expectancy in america from about 47 to about 90 committed one of the greatest achievements in the history of humanity. no, i submit that we must be compliant with the good, sound environmental rules and regulations. and we have the technology to

move ahead with the mining. these are minerals that are badly needed. it's a huge part of our jobs, our economy, our culture, and we need to protect our and i'm just as well because that, too, is a critically essential part of our economy and our culture. >> moderator: thank you very much. mr. mills, sounds like you might be some common ground. mills: well, not really. do you know what? i am for it. you know what? polymath, the science, engineering is there. after nine years there's no reason why we shouldn't be going forward with it. mr. sandman is against it and we're not quite sure where representative -- we are not quite sure where representative nolan is. e-blasted jeff anderson and others for the support of the strategic mineral back and then when went to the vote for. the "duluth news tribune" had a scathing guest editorial which

outlined representative nolan's flip-flop. also recently in september in the "duluth news tribune" to talk about how he is hedging his support of polymath. the daily cost it a scathing editorial complete with a video outlining representative nolan's flip-flops. so he can say he's for it right now but where is he going to be tomorrow. you can look at all the stuff is online. it's not really, did not to come to do too. just look it up yourself. thank you. >> moderator: one minute, mr. sandman if you would like. sandman: we don't have the science for cleanup when it happens. symbol is about. i look at what's happening now without -- simple as that. we have the mergers and the water. when babies show a higher

elevation of that metal in their blood, our babies, what will happen when this happens? it's not if, it's when. it's when it happens. we were the ones that are going to suffer. our children are the ones that are going to suffer. your grandchildren, it won't affect us right now, if you go down to generations, it will. and if their record is so great, why are all the accidents happening with this type mining around the world? it is unsafe because we cannot take care of it when it happens. thank you. >> moderator: take you. congressman, one minute. nolan: i do support polymet. i've always supported polymet. i have always supported mining and i've always supported doing it the right way in compliance with the good, clean air, water,

health and safety standards. now, obviously you take issue with the standards. you take issue with the money. my position has been consistent. it has been clear, and you can say that is being on both sides of the issue, and i would say you're darn right it is. i am for one and i'm for doing it the right way. but with regard to the technology, minnesota has been a leader in clean water technology. we make some of the best high pressure pumps for compass like warner in getting. we make some of the kills that go into reverse osmosis. with regard to wild rice identity while rice. i picked rice this year. the rice were i was not very good either but we got a few pounds. but you can take, and polymet has said, give is your stand to do a 250 parts? 10 parts? zero parts. we will buy the pot infiltration and we will give you whatever standard you feel is important to protect the water and protect the rice. we have the technology.

we have the know-how. we just have the political will. >> moderator: thank you very much. mr. mills. mills: anybody wants to know the truth about how representative nolan stance on each side of the issue and trying to walk the tightrope and hedge, just go to google. google it. information is out there. the debate is over. >> moderator: thank you, gentlemen. [laughter] we touched on it to some of the comments but let's explore it further, the affordable care act. it's an important issue but it keeps coming up. it has withstood dozens of challenges in congress but it's what national withstood scrutiny by the supreme court and a girl is the law of the land. is it a settled issue, or in your opinion would be go from your? congressman nolan? nolan: there's never a final score in politics, so i suspect it's not a settled issue. but i do like the good things it has done. in fact probably some of our same friends here, one with parkinson's disease, and another

young, a couple with a child with a brain tumor who are thrilled with the affordable care act because they were protected from bankruptcy and they were able to get affordable insurance to provide for their family. those are just a couple of the things that the affordable care act has done that i think are most important. now, is it the final thing? know. i've introduced a number of amendments to make changes to it, to make it better. and yes, i do support single-payer which is exactly what medicare is. you know, they administered the medicare program in this country for about three or 4%. the private sector insurance programs administered for about 27%. that's why practically a third of all health care dollars that we spend go into administrative costs and profits for big insurance companies. we need to find a way to get universal health care that's affordable for everyone in

america. there are still 40 million people that don't have insurance in america. this problem is not fixed yet. this thing is not over yet. they're still a great deal more that we need to do to make sure, and other things, one, make sure everybody pays. that's kind of a conservative notion that i embrace that. make sure that everybody is paying the same rate because that's the fair way to do it. and make sure that everybody has got the fundamental basic coverage. that's what medicare attempts to do. does a pretty darn good job, and that's what i propose for the american public. other nations in this world of ours do it, and guess what? they provide health care for more costs than what we do and they get better results in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality and all the rest. we can do better and i'm committed to it. thank you. >> moderator: thank you. mr. mills. mills: first of all what cannot continue will not continue.

and what we've seen from the affordable care act so far is that costs have gone up and access has gone down. we have people that are paying higher premiums, higher co-pays, deductibles, they're getting less for the remember the promises and if you like your plan you can keep your plan. if you like your doctor can keep her doctor. everyone is going to say 2500 bucks. that's a lie because it's a bad plan and it will not work. i am for health care reform. health care reform that actually brings down costs and increase his access. i'm also for the goals of the affordable care act, which is making sure that people don't have to worry about preexisting conditions, lifetime maximums or if they had a catastrophic health condition, that they don't have to worry about where they care is coming from. however, we have to decide who we are as a people, who we are as a society. are we a society of social safety nets and legal protections? or are we a welfare state? with a government big enough to

give us everything but also big enough to take it away. so we need to strengthen social security. social safety nets such as minnesota conference of health association which due to obamacare is going to be closing at the end of this year. so we could've looked at the high-risk pool, was a pervert? know that could we have made it better next yes. we could've worked on social safety net and let the free market bring the medical economy, the inflation rate of the medical economy in line with the inflation rates with the rest of the economy. because we know the free market works and we know that socialism does not work. buying and selling insurance across state lines, toward reform, price transparency in a medical economy -- toward reform. and more utilization of health savings accounts to put the power in the hands of the patient and consumer. so it shouldn't be between the patient, the government, the insurance company and the doctor.

should be between the patient and the doctor. we have to get back to what we stand as americans try for thank you. mr. sandman from your thoughts on the affordable care act. sandman: that's just it, affordable. everybody does need interns, single-payer. the program that is out there right now does not make it affordable to anyone who is single, may be living on welfare, maybe having a minimum wage job, working at mcdonald's. it's not affordable. i don't see -- i don't say we scrap the whole plant but we definitely take it off the table and we fix the thing. if other countries in the world can do this, why not us? we are driven so much by profit and greed by the corporations,

insurance companies, they forget about their people. and that's us. so it needs to be looked at, analyze, scrutinized, and make it affordable, darn it. affordable. thank you. >> moderator: thank you. congressman, rebuttal if you will. nolan: well, you know, mr. mills not missing he supports any of the things that are in the affordable care act, but somehow you want to repeal it. talk about doublespeak, starting to smell like the barn on a warm sunday afternoon here. the fact is, you know, you keep talking about free market to you keep talking about affordable. why do you think we had to abandon the free market and establish medicare? acus people couldn't afford it. that's why. why do you think we need some changes now? well first of all we have to rebuild the middle class but

they can't afford anything with a minimum wages that you oppose an increase in their minimum wages. and you find it personally offensive that the super rich millionaires and billionaires should have to pay more taxes? i quite frankly find it personally offensive that you'd want to deny a working men and women in this country a living wage. because then they might be able to afford some health care, regard as of weather was and the private sector or the public sector. let's not throw these slogans around about socialism and government control and taking over it we are looking for some common sense solutions here to get affordable health care to everybody in america. it's a fundamental right where i come from, and we need to rebuild this middle-class people have some income to afford a lot of things, like a home come into afford to feed their children without having to work two or three jobs. that's what this contest is all about.

that's what this choice is all about. it's a question of who you are for tribal mr. mills, i suspect you have a response to. mills: how much time? he covered a lot of ground. first of all, i've always been, he says it's going like the barn i believe. how i talk about him how i had health care reform, i've always been consistent. and again, you know, if that's your accusation, substantiated by editing my words out of context. as force the minimum wage is concerned, both jobs are stepping stone jobs. they're designed for 16 and 17-year-olds to get their first job, to get the skills and experience they need, to get the next paying job that they have. the fact that there are not jobs after those is a stunning indictment of the failure of the democrats have been in control of this economy for the last six years. we should be removing the stepping stone. we should be reigniting our economy because in the bakken field, nobody is talking about minimum wage. they are talking about jobs and

economic prosperity and things are happening. and the other thing is, representative nolan talked about commonsense solutions. i hope that single-payer government run health care is not a commonsense solution to what we need to do with our health care in economy. >> moderator: mr. sandman, would you care to respond? sandman: welcome once again we have to have it affordable. i talked with some people here about three, four weeks ago, and just to make a living, this young man had to work three our time jobs. that is not acceptable in a country like ours. we cannot afford to have the insurance. so it needs to really be looked at, analyze, taken apart. make it affordable for everyone.

no one here in this great state, or in the united states, should have to work three jobs at minimum wage and still suffer. ..