areas that we are going to touch upon today that we think you should be aware of. you don't have to be somebody who sits behind your computer all day. being an on line activists are helping on any of these fronts but i think you should at least be aware whether you are a donor and activist a supporter and elected official or candidate if you work at a nonprofit. you should know that the impact of these tools have an importance that they hold when you think about strategies or you think about ways not just freeze up to get involved but for those organizations and other efforts that you are aligned with.

so i want to talk about politics and advocacy ain't quickly about campaigns and elections and the shifting tide of media and journalism as well. the biggest thing i get when i talk to people about this topic is okay so you are on twitter him on facebook and have a blog you are preaching to the choir. i hear about things like obama's big date and that's what makes a difference. i want to give a few examples but i'm sure you are all familiar with that would never have been possible before the advent of the internet. how many of you remember dan rather who we can now call the former anchor of "cbs evening news" news because of her report he ran on president bush's national guard service during the 2004 re-election campaign. the mainstream media picked up this story will be on cbs and became a major issue in the campaign and a conservative blogger posted the documents that dan rather had used as the basis for his story. it was actually a typewriter expert at montana that looked at

the documents documents and set the type said he used to create these didn't exist in the year they were supposedly created brady commented on the blog of the blogger picked blog of a blogger picked it up force the mainstream media to cover it which can -- force an investigation that led to dan rather's downfall. ..

and been re-elected and unfortunately he didn't, but the youtube moment brought down his political career. below him, van jones -- remember obama's green job czar. van jones was a prominent official in the obama administration who wasn't really properly vetted-not by the media, but wielded tremendous influence. activists across the country started to uncover all of this information from his past, his involvement during the riots. these green energy initiatives are a tool to redistribute wealth to impoverished african-american communities. it was not reported by the mainstream media. started peeking up traction online. glen beck picked it up.

it never would have happened in the age of the main stream media. and 2010 was a majorror for republicans sweeping control of congress, but bob etheridge was considered probably the safest democratic incumbent in a rural district. and the republican party wasn't going to put up an opponent against him. the tea party said that's not right, i'm going to run against my congressman, and thank god she did. he was asked about his vote on obamacare, and rather than responding he grabbed the student by the arm and started twisting it and you can hear the student in the video say, plead let me go. he was being very aggressive. the video went viral and that's you he is now former congressman. anthony weiner, don't need to go into the details of that story.

most of you are familiar with. but that was something that happened going into a memorial day weekend where most of the media was probably off at the beach enjoying a holiday, and conservative bloggerred and social media activist picked up on it and wouldn't let it die, and if they hadn't done that, anthony weiner would still be a congressman. but they forced his resignation and in the following special election, republican won the seat for the first time in over 100 years. again, all of these never could have happened before the aim of the -- age of the internet. even if your just sharing something, e-mailing, hitting the like button on facebook, you can have a huge impact. it's important because it drives mainstream media coverage, influences the public policy agenda, increases activism and spreads our message to a broader audience. one example you may have seen in the past week or so, the

governor rick perry in texas indictedded on two felony counts from a district attorney who was caught drunk driving the other year. she had three times the legal blood-alcohol limit shep was in charge of the public integrity unit, holding politicians in texas accountable. have any of you seen the video? not just the arrest video where she can't walk a jagged line, but once she is booked, she is kicking the door, screaming for the sheriff to come, let her go. she is being verbally and physically abusive to the people who have taken her into custody. now, what i thought was really odd when i saw the article -- i got a google political news alert saying rick perry indoing ited on two constants. the article said rick perry threatened to veto funding to a district attorney he wanted to resign, blah blah blah, and then i saw all this stuff on twitter about rosemary lundberg, and i

thought, they don't mention her name, they don't talk about her drunk driving. they're just trying to impugn rick perry and not include the context of why he threatened to veto the funding, some hobbies should driving around with a half empty bottle of vodka, who is in charge of public integrity in the state of texas, have a multimillion dollar budget. rick perry thought no and threatened to veto it unless she resigned. it forced the mainstream media to cover and it got to the point where "the new york times" and obama's adviser, david axlerod, called this investigation inappropriate and clearly political retribution. so that shows the power of the internet, actually should go back for one second. when you think about tom delay or ted stephens, there are so many politicians whose careers have been ruined and they were

later exonerated. that was because of the time it happened, the tool, or lacked the savvy to fight back. rick perry is a tremendous example of turning two felony indictments against him into a political plus. now he is the talk of the 2016 field, and everybody is rallying behind him. so i think that really truly shows the power of the internet. we hear a lot about the digital divide, especially in the fallout from the 2008 and 2012 electioned. there's major divide between where the left isy where we are online and a lot of that is not due to any gap in enthusiasm from the grass roots on either side. it's a lot of the organizations who are not taking advantage and using the appropriate tools to engage us in their campaigns or organizations. so, in 2008, for example, barack obama launched his own social media web site. we all know he is a very humble

guy. my barack obama.com had two million members and he used that to organize and mobilize those people. those two million members hosted 200,000 offline events, generated millions of pieces of content ongoing, blog posts, tweets, that got his message out across the internet. he used it as a tool to mobilize the army to be fundraiser and it was the back bone of his get out the vote operation that led to his 2008 victory in 2012 we hear about the role of big data and they know if you mention big bird or a country song in a certain area, the impact that would have on polling, whereas mitt romney, his get out the vote tool couldn't even connect to the internet because they never tested it. $200 million down the drain because they never tested it from the facility it would be run from. so clearly there is a digital divide. one thing that exemplifies more

than anything else the approach -- it's about the approach and the bay you use even rudimentary rules to engage your activists, things we can come up with ourselves in terms of tactics if we don't have the toolses the iphone application obama made in 2008. it would take you contacts and look up the area code and then prioritize them by swing state. how many get robocalls? hear he delay and click. how many actually listen? i hang up immediately. if i get a call from my mother, my brother, my best friend, i'm going to take it. so when people were calling their friends from their contact list and saying, i'm supporting barack obama this november, here's why. i hoch you will, too. do you expect they'll be turn taught vote for him on election day? they would revert back to a screen, likely obama voter,

unlikely obama voter, undecided. all got back to the obama base to follow up or activate you to followup. my phone was getting inundated by robocalls from john mccain or other surrogates that most other people were probably hanging up on. that's about approach. more than anything else, whether you do it online or in person, some of you are involved in activist groups -- how many of you are just a citizen and activist versus being an elected official or with an organization? if you're an activist, raise your hand. if you're with an organization, or an elect official, raise your hadn't? we always like seeing more citizen hands going up than politicians. we have a better balance here. it all goes book to the principles of community organizing. this is something we attack

obama for, nothing more than a community organizer, and that is probably the only thing he is go at so we should give him credit for it. shouldn't deride it and should learn from it. this is a wheel that shows the principles of community organizing, and i think they're worth walking through because they really highlight the mistakes and the flaws or the ineffective use that people or organizations often make when using social media. first and foremost -- i think they -- we have listening. social media is not about blatsing your message out. that's the aim of broadcast. tv, newspaper, radio, they all blast a message at you. again, you can scream back at it but they're not going to hear you. you can write a letter to the editor, but they control the information. what makes the internet different is that it's a conversation. if you want to engage people you have to talk to them, and when you talk to people, you have to

listen to what they have to say. one of the biggest flaws on our side is organizations say let's facebook or twitter to post our press releases. same thing is a citizens. i want to tell people what's going on. i'm an organizer, come to this event. you have to listen and ask questions, have to engage. if you want team to take time to get involved, take time from their families, businesses, jobs, to get involved, you have to make them feel part of the community and that requires you to listen. you had be surprised what you would learn. when i was at americans for prosperity, we ran a petition no stimulus.com, and we asked, why are you signing this petition north just your name and e-mail address but why? i think 90% of the people filled out the why, and amazing stories we got from people that we were able to tell the media. so do take the time to listen. it's worth it. that goes to relationship-building. it's not about, i have one more person following me on twitter who can see what i post. that's one more potential

relationship you can connect with and mobilize them on your behalf or your campaign or organization's behalf to advantages your cause or -- advance your cause or message. challenge, a good example is the scott brown senate race. not the current one but when ted kennedy passed away and nobody thought a republican would win a mas senate seat. people stood up and said, why not? let's send buss and volunteers. if we didn't have people to challenge people to do more they otherwise would, we would never win. it's important we remember to always challenge people, and then that goes to action. give people things to do. don't just say, be angry about obamacare. be angry about obama cad and make a phone call. here's a phone number to the u.s. capitol switchboard, turn out to your representative's district office, give people things to do and you'll be amazed at what theyll do for you. i used to when i started working

in new media ifp, complained to our fundraiser, why don't people give us more money to do stuff with the internet? it's so important. we need more resources. he said, eric, dope nors don't say, how can i help eric? you have to ask people. i if your an activist, you want people to vote or make a phone call, you have to ask them to do it. evaluation and reflection. i think that goes to listening, too. take time to step back, is what your degree effect sniff are you getting input? are you doing what you can to refine and it make sure you're making the best -- putting the best foot forward possible to ensure success? finally, celebration. sometimes we move on so quickly to the next fight we forget to celebrate and thank people. we forget to include people as a part of that celebration, to make sure they know their hard work was appreciated. so i want to quickly move through so we can get to erica. how do people in organizations

influence policymakers with media. we did a survey in illinois and said the average state legislator would reconsider their position on a given piece of legislation if they got 17 phone calls from constituents. only 17. that was a few ears ago. things changed. tools made it easier to contact them and perhaps it takes more than that. especially at the federal number and the number of communications they get. probably takes a lot more. the great thing about the internet is so many electes officials run their own twitter account and manage their own facebook pain that they don't just get the tally from the staff about how many phone calls or e-mails came in, you're actually reaching them directly, and some case studies that point directly to that. texas and georgia here, which is a tale of two states. both texas and georgia politically are very red. republicans control legislatures, republican governors, congressional

delegations. and majority republican voters in both states. when it comes to in the mewedarch texas was a very blue state because of a blog called the burnt orange report, run bay few guys who would go to the state capitol and live blog what was happening during legislative session or stay at home in their mom's basement-probably, watching the state level equivalent of c-span, blogging about what was happening. when i was organizing an event there once i had the opportunity to meet with the speaker of the state house who said sadly it's got top the point as public policymaker we are not engaging-under fellow lawmakers. we're getting in an argument on a blogger and almost every member has their computer screen open to this blog and they're read what this person thinks of them when they talk. the ability of one person to even just be a distraction to that level in one of our largest states legislatures is incredible. same thing in georgia, still a red state. our conservative blog, called

peach pundit, same effect. there's a picture of all of their computer screens open to that blog. happened in virginia. there's a blog called, not layer sabato. this not him. this blogger was upset with the way a lawmaker voted. put up a post, so and so just voted outside of the interests of the district and i'm going to make sure his con state opportunities remember. the staff showed it to him on the blackberry, he turned around and changed his vote in california, even though that's a blue state, we have a great conservative blog there called flash report. and the ability of him to put up a post and change the minds or votes of elected officials is absolutely incredible. so don't think that you can't make a difference. in fact at the federal level, here's a great example from january of 2012. i don't know how many of you remember hipaa, a debate about

online intellectual property protections and there were a lot of major free speech concerns that arose and other issues of it not being well thought-out legislation, and so you can see from the twitter officially sent out a tweet on their own saying 2.4 million people put out related tweets from 12:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. that day. so within one day, you have an -- these are just a couple of examples. lawmakers who were not only stating they flipped their position on the bill, but actually people who sponsored the bill saying, i'm withdrawing my sponsorship of the bill, orrin hatch, withdrawing, harry reid, i've decided to postpone the vote. marco rubio flipping, roy blunt. decidedozens of others. so these are examples of both the state and federal level that people can have an impact. if you're one tweet you're doing your part. you don't have to sit there and

do it eight hours a day. i've got two more slides and then i'm done. so, the transforming the way we communicate with policymakers, candidates and the media and how they communicate with us, jason chafen from utah. he lives in his office and gives a chat to his con state opportunities what is going on in washington. bypasses the media and gets his message to the public. the same way the public can get a message to the lawmakers and the media. make d.c. listen. how many remember ted cruz and his filibuster against obamacare. he got hundreds of thousands of americans to get behind him. in 2008 or 2009, nancy pelosi sent congress on a recess. there was aviettal vote they had to take to extent privileges for offshore drilling shep wanted it to expire. she sent congress home, shut off the lights.

republican lawmakes stayed, continued to talk, and just through twitter were able to get their message out and put enough pressure on pelosi to reconvene congress and hold the vote. after the iranian presidential elections in 2009, cnn -- the protests up at the beginning of the arab spring, cnn was covering celebrity gossip and entertainment news that weekend while every other major media outlet was covering what happened in iran. so many people tweeted, it forced cnn to switch their coverage to what was happening. final example -- this really shows how off base or sometimes ineffective the main stream media is. nobody saw the eric cantor loss coming. the media said it was inevitable, he was 40 opinions ahead, but lost by 12 points on primary day. if you look at google trends, tool that shows how many people

are searching a given term on google at any time. in the weeks leading up to his loss, there was a massive increase in searches for dave brat t and if you look at twitter you can see there was a huge advantage occurring. eric cantor hat 63 people who were retweeting him, dave bratd hat 830 people retweeting him, reaching more than 4 million people. a 20 times greater reach than eric cantor had. there were signs we could see digitally that were never reported and that shows the diminished power they have. with that i'll turn things over to erica anderson to talk about a few more campaign related things and the media, and then if we have time i'd thereof take your questions. thank you all so much. [applause]

>> just turned it off. no. >> talking about the campaigns and candidacy aspect of this, wanted to talk a little bit about how the issue of announcing your candidacy has changed. a lot of candidate still do this. announcing includes dropping a press release-blasting out to reporters, holding a conference call and then maybe sending an in case you missed it e-mail to bloggers. things have changed and one great example of that is senator ted cruz and how he started his campaign for the senate. the first thing he did was hold a conference call with bloggers. press releases are dead. i don't know ted cruz even sends

press release skis recommend politicians rethink that strategy. most 0 of the team -- most of the time people are not paying attention to that. i get so many of those and always delete them. you have to get my attention in some other creative way. what did ted crazy do second? he tweeted he was running for senate. twitter has been a huge pry port for ted cruz, and it's made major difference. another person we talked about him, rick perry. he also announced hit candidacy in the same way, and has also made twitter a huge priority. if you look at it, ted cruz and rick perry are two of the most popular people in the republican party and that's not an accident. it's because they've made new media, twitter, social media, and all of these platforms, bloggers, made them a pry sort and it shows -- priority. they bypass the mainstream media and get their message out they way they want to and that's a

trend that other politics need to follow. what that does is it -- instead of giving all of your information and power to the main stream media, you're empowering your supporters and giving them the power to support you online and get the message out. and both russ -- cruz and perry and other poll politicians continue this practice while in office. i know working in communications in d.c. since 2006, i have met ted cruz probably five or six times because he makes himself available to people. on a regular basis. he is big at the blogger conferences. the guy that comes to though the blogger briefing at the heritage foundation we host every month. he is accessible. he is not an elitist and that is something that a lot of politicians need to keep in mind. other politicians that you might take note of that are doing it right online include running for congress in maryland, dan

bongino. you should see the stuff on his facebook pain and how personable he is. runs his instagram account, talking about all kinds of things in his life that i thinks are interesting and not just policy and politics. he is a real person and people like him. so i hope he wins. other people, marco rubio, president obama, debby wasserman shut, john cornyn, mike lee, cory booker itch wanted to showcase people from the left and right just because i think that we need to learn from both sides, and i'm forgetting to do my power point slides. sorry. so, those are people you want to look to. now, in addition to the changing landscape for how politicians announce they're candidacy and run their campaigns the media is diversifying and that's something we need to pay attention to. the nation's leading newspapers decrease in readership every

year. "the new york times," "wall street journal," every year you see their reach is going down and that's because we're seeing the rise of all these other web sites that are bringing information. people are consuming news in a different way these days. people are watching less television and consuming more news on their devices, on different web sites and the american press institute study said that americans prefer different reporting sources for different subjects. someone is not going to one place to get their news on every subject. that why we have a lot of specialized web sites and that's due to citizen journalists, bloggers and people creating new platforms that specialize in information and have become really important. a pew research study also showed that the growing digital news world is largely comprised of hundreds of smaller sites moving to fill the gap left by legacy reporting. the smallerrer trend -- in the p.r. or marketing world you

can't go anywhere without hearing them talking about the nature of target evidence specialized outreach to various levels. no just the big tv ads or newspaper added. eight about the smaller bloggers, about the smaller platforms, because that's where people are really, really influenced, because it's friends, family members, it's people that they trust and respect. and that's where the messages are really hitting home. the other thing i would just say is that the policy organizations, politicians, brands, if one person says something negative about them on twitter, they're listening. they don't want that out there to in the public arena. that's why places like southwest airlines and different brands have become so good at managing p.r. on those platforms because once it's out there on twitter, their reputation is going down and that's why we need to pay attention to that more often. a study between stanford and facebook shows your social media

audience is actually four types larger than you think it is. so whereas you might think you don't have a lot of people listening to you, it really multiplies on social media. if even if you just sharing with your 50 friends on facebook, every axe they take, like it, share it, comment on it, that it is multipied into the friends they have and you don't have and there's so much more potential than you think there is, which is why i wish people would realize how important it is they use these platforms for themselves and to get the information to the bloggers and the web sites. i'm trying too speed through this because i know we don't have a lot of time. according to the recent study, 29% of consumers trust recommendations from friended and family over other advertising. i would say that guess the same for policy, politicians. you're going to be much more likely to pay attention to an issue your friend is talking's on facebook report then if you get a banner ad from a politician. if someone is giving a

thoughtful perspective on something on their facebook page-twitter, on in your local paper, bogey going to pay attention to that more and that's why it matters. 81% of consumers are influenced by their friends' social media posts. shows you how powerful it is. we have seen this working in so many ways. school choice is a great example. there were ton of smaller voices working tirelessly to make it known how important school choice is and school choice is thriving. people are knowledgeable below the negative consequences of common core, two movies made about the school choice movement, and people on the right and the left coming together, and i think it's to such a powerful example how smaller voices made a big difference. additionally, live action is an organization started by a woman named leila rose. she was -- she hated what plant parenthood was doing and wanted

to expose it. she went in there undercover and recorded what they were doing and then sent it out, and people could not ignore it because it was so powerful and exposed some of the awful things that this organization was doing, and their re pew addition has declined and -- reputation declines and she has continued to make these videos and you have probably seen them. one last example, james o'keefe, went to uncover voter fraud, green corruption, and most recently, border insecurity. nobody funded him to do this. he went on his own, did and it now you'll see cnn and fox news and major networks refer back to what he has done because it's legitimate report that can't be denied and he did that on his own without anyone telling him, we're going to pay you to do this. he just did: and there are so many other bloggers and journalists, citizen journalists doing that now and it's

important we empower them and get them the information they need. in coming to a close here, shortly, the rise of -- at the heritage foundation we created the daily signal. also rare, daily caller, the blaze and many more. for a long time all conservatives had was fox news. that's changed. these web sites, i can tell you, i look at the traffic numbers. they're off the charts. millions of people are going to these web sites every month, and people are getting information that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten. and i i can tell you at the daily signal, we pride ourselves reporting underreported stories and we think we're doing important work like a lot of these bloggers and citizen journalist do. last example i'll give is there are some influencers, they don't have blogs or major web sites but they're making a name -- sorry -- hard to do two things at once -- they're making a name for themes just on twitter.

holly fisher, known as holly hobby lobby. she posted a picture of herself holding a gun and a bible in front of an american flag. just being, hey, i'm patriotic. a liberal took the picture and started calling her the american taliban and put it up next to this picture of this soldier. obviously that was a little disturbing, but holly fought back, conservatives on quitter fought back for her. she went to -- she has just had such -- made such a difference in getting the message out for conservatives, and i asked her to come to heritage next week and talk to us. so you can actually tune into that live online next tuesday at noon if you're interested. so, to close on this, eric and i are working with all of these bloggers and influencers every day, and just through our work with heritage and the franklin center, and if you want to learn more about these individuals,

making sure they're heard and making sure your messages are getting to them as well, we'd love to talk with you. please feel free to get in touch. after the conference, here our information. if you want to get in touch with us, twitter is an easy way. we don't have our e-mail because that's so old school. so, that is -- yeah, that's all we have itch don't know we have time for questions, but -- >> i would just say if you want to get involved, if there's no time for questions, we'll be around for a while. if you want to get resources to get on twitter, facebook, get on a blog, let us know and we'll give you our contact information and have somebody back at our offices help you out. we'll be at the margarita party, too. the main take away, even if you just forward an e-mail or hit the like button or retweet button you have no idea how big an impact that is. think on the 63 people for eric cant you're versus 860 people for dave brat.

what a difference. one thing i forgot to mention, at afp we were promoting a live webcast and had an e-mail list of 1.3 million people and we sent another link to an e-mail list of 100 of our top allies on social media. people who would do anything we asked them and had large following and we got three times as many viewers from sending an e-mail to those 100 people than an i'm to 1.3 million people. to don't underestimate the power to tap into our networks across the country and make a difference. [applause] >> coming up, state and local officials in texas discuss border security issues. then a discussion on u.s. incarceration rates and criminal justice reforms. later, the supreme court our arguments in line versus north carolina, a case examining whether a police officer's

misunderstanding of the law can justify a search. >> seen a couple commercials here and there for and against each of you. special question on claims made against supporters, candidates, for and against. we'll begin our questioning for cockman braley. one minute on the response. >> welcome. much has been already said about the advertising, so i have been

given the greatest honor, i think to give you a chance to refute some of these ads being -- the super pac ads particularly. these are coming millions of dollars in money coming from forces outside of iowa. we understand those of which you have no control over at all. but they're driven by fear and scare tactics. so i'm going begin with this one. i'm going to change my order slightly because of the gun control you just talk about. i heard an ad today, congressman braley, the nra political victory fund insinuating you and michael bloomberg are buddies now and you're going to take away my second amendment rights and i don't like it. what's the answer. >> the answer is, i've never met michael bloomberg. i have no idea what these ads are based upon other than a fear that i'm going to bring balanced, common sense, to try to come up with reasonable solutions to reducing gun violence like i have.

working with a republican from pennsylvania named tim murphy. we have held lots of hearings on the connection between our failure to address the needs of mental illness in this country, and through those bipartisan hearings we learn that the largest mental health treatment facility in the united states is the los angeles county jail. we know that we have to do more, and yet when senator ernst was asked -- she was asked about her ad she ran where she was shooting a pistol into the camera and saying, let me take aim at obamacare. it came out right before the tragic shooting in santa barbara, and she was asked if she regretted and it called it an unfortunate accident. i don't think it was an accident to the victims and they're families. senator? >> yes. that is a horrible tragedy, and i have stated that already. now, where you have stated that

you will work for mental health reform, we have actually done that here in the state of iowa. working towards a better system, an easier access for the most vulnerable and our population, to receive care. they can walk into many places now and discover where they can go for treatment. whether you're in a rural area, whether you're living in a populated area, we want to make sure that there is easy access for those that suffer from mental illness and do receive the care they need. but i will always be a strong supporter of the second amendment. our state motto 0, liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain. block

next, state and federal officials from texas discuss the security of the southern border, recent surges of undocumented

immigrants, and efforts to prevent terrorism. this hour-long event was part of the fourth annual tribune texas festival in austin. >> our panelists gracious enough to take the time to be here. da governor, lieutenant governor david duherst. he served as an intelligence officer in the u.s. air force. he speaks bert spanish than i do. and before he served an lieutenant governor he was texas land commissioner, and lastly, you wrote a letter to the mexican government that was highly critical what you deemed their criticism of the deployment of the national guard. especially on the anniversary of 9/11, and i think you said, mexico's response was a -- this

is definitely something in the news and we'll get to. to his left, congressman -- representing the 28th 28th congressional district since 2005. excuse me. he is the only texas democrat to serve on the house progresses committee, andon the subcommittee for homeland security and related programs and congressman -- he was the only dem contracted to vote with the republicans on a controversial -- >> they voted with me. >> exactly. >> he couldn't wait for the introduction. this would have rolled back a provision to a 2008 trafficking law that would have -- congressman claire says it's important to have faster hearings for central american minors which have come over the border, which is in the news. to his left its todd staples, the agricultural commission. he and the congressman are good

friends and before that he was in the texas house and senate as well as on the city council and congratulations, commissioners. recently named the next president of the texas oil and gas association. in 2011, the commissioner launched a web site called protect your texas border.com which chronicles events from farmers and ranchers and he has a little great news aggregate site where it says everything that is going on, on the border, it's there for you to look at. that was also a topic of controversy and probably -- [inaudible] >> congressman robert francis bethel, o'rourke, -- he currently sits on the veterans affairs and homeland security committee. congressman, behave yourself.

[inaudible] >> so much more relaxed now. before that, mr. o'rourke are served on the el paso city council. in 2011 you co-authored a work called dealing death and drugs, which wasn't for repeal of marijuana prohibition where the congressman said he wants to have a new dialogue on what scaling back -- [inaudible] and last but not least, colonel steve mccraw, who before was the head of the texas public safety, served for more than two decade inside the fbi and was also rick perry's chief of home lean security and oversaw efforts increase border

security. earlier this summer, your organization began a 1.3 million decide per week operation that continued something that your leadership started as lieutenant governor where there's a summer of troopers on the border. i don't know how many have been down there but you can't drive from rio grand city to mcallen without seeing 50 or -- 15 or 20 -- call them smokeys, troopers, but a lot of black and whites, and contrary to what the national guard represents, most of the people are on board with the dps but the national guard is a different story. so if you don't mind, applause for our panel. [applause] >> colonel, i want to start with you. obviously the bored surge has been in the news a lot. your offers recently released statistics how that's going if

you could give a brief recap. that something that people would like to know about. lieutenant governor, your party is the party of fiscal responsibility. >> we're in week 11 right now. when we started, it was week one. when the speaker and lieutenant governor and governor directed us to conduct this separation. talking about a surge operation. for those in law enforcement, really, it's hot spot policing. just saturation patrols, in high-crime areas, and the crime we're looking at is smuggling, organized smuggling, and the first week there was in the area of operations that zone one through 13, 6,606 undocumented aliens that were detained, apprehended and detainedded. there was concern about the continued -- within that population, 17% were unaccompanied children but the other concern was the organized

crime as it relates to the cartels, and transnational gangs and criminal aliens. that number from 6,606 has dropped to 1,997, in week 11. we have seen a drop and the important part is it's not -- the numbers -- all those numbers matter, et cetera. the numbers drop at a time when we saturated the area, when we increased or apprehension capability. and point is deterrence. if we can -- the directives wire given is to do something about this. the felony pursuits, home invasions being experienced in the rio grande valley. also, the stash houses. human and drug stash. when i talk about human stash houses, part of the business model of the cartel is once you get over here, you may have paid your modify to get here but you're not going anywhere.

what is the national guard's role specifically? i think there's been some question about if they have i policing powers, immigration and enforcement. and they're doing surveillance. if you can let the public know. that has a hefty price tag. >> what they're doing is -- when they were called up, which means -- what we have done is looked at, with our local and federal partners, border patrol, identify observation posts where we can sit sit wait texas military good at personnel and they'll be eight -- we have a view so they can look at and see smuggling activity and report it. they don't have the power to detain or arrest. they have the power to detect and report. when the reports -- local law

enforcement. they will respond. and -- >> congressman o'rourke you penned an op-ed where you were critical of the deployment. west texas and el paso is a different situation. if you could elaborate why you think this is a bad idea. >> first of all i question that the cause and effect relationship of deploying guard to the border and using that to account for the drop in children and families fleeing central america and the united states -- i think a lot of people who are looking at this issue agree that in the hot summer months there are fewer people willing to make that journey through mexico. there's also probably a natural peak that may or may not have been reached and we're on at the decline from. but if you look at this more hoe holistically. 15 years ago you had 1.1 -- last you're 420,000 and this year,

even witch the peak from central america or the summer from central america, we'll probably not hit half a million. we are at the same time spending more than twice what we were spending 15 years ago, $1 billion a year in federal money on the u.s., mexico border, double the size of the border patrol, and el paso, texas, the city i'm very lucky to represent in congress, is the safest city not just in texas but the safest city in the entire country, and i say that not in spite of having so many immigrants in our community and being right on the border but precisely because of the factors. >> let me stop you had the recent shooting of an off-duty border patrol agent, you had 300 nationals violently murdered. you have an increase in sexual assaults whether those are being committed by legal immigrants or not. so it's not to say that there is not crime on the border or just saying it's -- that people -- i

guess what are you saying when -- >> i'm not saying there's not crime on the border. i'm saying the border is much safer on average than the rest of the country and that it's not just el paso. it's laredo, san diego, other large border cities are typically much safer. it not despite their proximity to mexico. it's because of that. folks come to this country not to commit crimes by and large, but to get ahead, provide a better life for themes and their children and to live the american dream. is there crime sometime tuesday on the border in yes, are the folks trying to smuggle there drugs and people? ey. my a hats off to dps, border patrol, everyone who does everything they can to protect this country and ensure the border stays safe itch think our reaction to these kids -- these are children coming from central america -- has been disproportionate to the threat, and the scary thing about that is when we concentrate all of our attention and resources on the border, it's possible that we take our eye off the ball

where the real threats reside and that's in our airports, that's potential hill the northern border, that's home-grown extremists and terrorists. and so certainly let's be vinal plant, continue to guard against threats at the border, but whether we are talking about immigrants or terrorists, which is the talk in washington today, the southern border has never been safer than it is today and you can look at any metric to judge that and it's borne out. >> you want to say something? >> if you exclude organized crime i agree. but the fact -- i don't think you can exclude organized crime. you have to look at barrio seta and the connection between the cartel. kidnappings matter, extortions matter, and even though they're illegal, they're people. when the come across, the first ones to be victimized in these stash houses is by the cartel, and these gangs and the sexual exploitation, and i can't tell you how many cases we have had

to work with human trafficking we have young girls being recruited by organized crime that are preyed upon, threatened, gang raped and then forcedprostitution. it does clearly impact the community and then -- i'll cease for now. >> lieutenant governor? >> with all due respect i've been in and out of el paso so many times -- we talked earlier with your wife, amy, my grandparents lived for years and years in el pass sew. great city. but if you have had violence in el paso. to say our border is safer than the other cities around the country, is delusional. >> what's the -- >> what are you referring to. >> incidents on shootings, different -- people cooking across the border. here's the bottom line. i asked the d -- >> what is the background?

let me, too. >> let my fitch issue -- iyou and the governor make allegations about car bombs and violence and shootings. where are the facts? i live there. no one is more concerned about the safety of the community i represent than i am. my three kids are there right now -- >> let me ask you a question -- i wouldn't be comfortable -- >> let me answer you question. that is that you're focusing on the humanitarian side and the unaccompanied children a moment ago. that's only part of that. it's less than 20%. from 12 to 18%. when you look at the other 80%, a lot of these people that are coming into the united states have criminal records. people that have come in to texas, since 2008, who are not legal, have committed hundreds of thousands of crimes in texas, and including thousands of murders, and so this is a law enforcement effort, a law enforcement effort to secure the border. the federal government has

failed miserably, horribly, to do their constitutional job to secure the border. and so i believe that when the federal government fails to do their constitutional job, the states have more than just a right but an obligation to do that job, and so we are trying to protect the people of texas. that's our number one responsibility for elected officials to protect the safety of the people who live there. >> you are well versed in homeland security interests and you're on that committee. i want to talk before we get to funding and border patrol levels and staffing about the threat, also threats, so-called threat or real threat about isis using the southern border. have troubles here because you -- [inaudible] >> what do people at the state level, what does a west texas sheriff know that people on the homeland security committee don't know. >> i'd like to answer that

quickly. day before yesterday we had a hearing in homeland security with the director of the fbi, the director of the national counterterrorism center and the secretary of homeland security. each was asked point blank is therefully threat you know of from isis along the southern border with texas we should know about. each of them said there's no credible intelligence or information to lead to us believe there's any threat whatsoever from isis or hezbollah or iran or al qaeda or any known terrorist organization. furthermore, there have never been a connection to a plot successful or otherwise, purported by terrorists here in the united states, connected to the southern border. should we remain vinal plant? certainly, is it a possibility? absolutely. let's look at the facts. the claims the border i vice lent -- [applause] >> claims people are coming here too get us. it's beside for the border in terms of wasting resources and

takes our eye off the ball where the reel -- very hard to attract capital, investment and talent to communities like el paso and laredo when the governor says car bombs are going off in el paso, isis on the border. they're not true. >> the governor, i think he realized he made a mistake that was three years ago and still being brought up in the news, either -- some people say could be beating a dead horse. i think -- or that it's very real, going on. but commissioner, you get the perspective that is a little north of the border. and congressman, if you want to follow up with what the congressman said. the -- i just want to follow up with you because the middle eastern extremists -- you remember former sheriff in -- [inaudible] -- thought shay found al qaeda

passages. did you take it seriously then or now? >> anytime there's a claim we have follow up but just like he said, we asked our intelligence and i did ask specifically when this came out, and they're saying there's no credible fear. how somebody else might know that information that our top intelligence officers don't know, i don't know, but again, i'm always one of those, you have to be ready just in case, and we have to be vigilant about this because if you look at it, the bad guys have to get it right one time. that's, just one time. we have to get it right every single time as we do that on the border. but let me just talk about the border and border security. this is why i break up border security. first, what is the border? the border is a region that has millions of people on both sides. it's hubs of activity where every day there's $1.3 billion of trade between the u.s. and mexico. have a trillion dollars last

year, the movement of drugs, laredo, largest port around, i think, after l.a., new york, laredo, third in the country, 12,000 trailers a day -- >> from january to july i think $150 billion in two-way trade. >> it's huge. so, first of all, got to look at what the border is. it's a highly -- it's a place where there's a lot of activity. creates a lot of activity for both sides. on my side, just going into your next profession, i have loot of the -- you see the energy. on the other side you have the border goods also the basin over there where they're going to probably have the same thing we have. so you have a lot more activity. what's the border? that's the way i see the border. >> will you address the comments. there is criminal activity going on. >> let me first tell you what is the border. we see the border differently. second of all it's security. how do we address a threat? first of all, anytime anytime

there's a threat you have to identify the threat and there's organized crime, other type of threats. you identify the threat, then you decide what is the appropriate measure to address that. now, if you think that you put a wall, a border patrol, and national guard and that solves the whole issue, it doesn't. it doesn't. you have to look at how best to address that issue. and a lot of times people have a tendency of just focusing between the port odd entry. they're very important to us, so -- the other thing is, just generally speaking, on addressing those threats, either we can keep playing defense on the one yard line which is called the u.s. mexico border, where we spent over $18 billion, or do we look at playing defense on the 20-yard line, working with mexico and central american countries. >> to follow up on the comments, i think what we really have is the tale of two border.

the very robust economy in mexico, over 500 up in jobs created in the lone star state. $200 billion between our state and nation and then we have a very dangerous situation that it is not conducive to solving the drug problems and the crime and the unlawful entry if we say that it's better than ever because the stats show that in 201 to 2013, apprehension inside texas has increased by 100%. those are -- >> which stats? >> customs and border patrol stats, 119,000 were apprehended in texas in 2011. that number rows to 235,000 in -- >> those are just the an preparations, not all the people that get across. >> we have great data, governor, to operation drawbridge, the cameras, have detected 95,000 people since they've been put up but only apprehend 46,000. so it's less than half are being an preparedded. it's very real. our policy needs to be this. we need to separate the drug

runners from the job seekers, and i think that is the approach that will help law. -- >> experiments reform would do that if we had a temporary guest worker plan, the people that want to come do a job, will come into the u.s. and the bad guys will be the ones we focus on. >> i agree with you. there's so much distrust right now because it hasn't been addressed. we do need to secure our border, part of an effective consecutive border security policy is to have a guest worker program where people are coming in legally, novelty illegally. >> if could go back to lieutenant governor, your letter was harsh, a harsh letter, a harsh rebuke of what the mexican governor. governor perry called mexico, said we're neighbors and friends. you -- >> he to the comments you said -- due you think that mcis failing to secure -- mexico is failing to prevent the flow on purpose? they're not capable of doing it?

i was. >> i was addressing the fact on the date which most americans are sensitive about, 9/11, the mexican government put out a letter that said that our actions on the border to include the texas national guard were a political stunt, where we were politicizing, all about politics. and there has -- that cooperate be further from the truth. i started seven years ago when i realized the federal government was incapable or unwill tolling do their job to security the dr. -- secure the border, porching the money for the bore, i've appropriate end $800 million for spotter aircraft, helicopters, armored plated gun boats, more people, sheriff's departments and that's given the strength to an excellent -- we're very lucky to have colonel mccraw as our director. that's giving him the ability to run a surge and at least on the rio grande valley and to drop

people crossing the border. we're not militarizing. mexico militarized for a years its border with guatemala by putting the mexican army there. this is a force multiplier. national guard, just to see and report. >> congressman, you're shaking your head. i want to ask -- a few years back, mexico does have an army presence. what is the difference between when they send the military to their border and when we send the national guard -- >> the mexican military in interior mexico they're using their military every day. >> part of the united states. we're have a wonderful 225 year history of not deploying the army within this countriment when we deploy the army in this country and them to do police work instead of military work we get bad results. one man was shot by a marine when the marines were on the border in the clinton

administration them border patrol do a good job, have perhaps the toughestroll in federal government, tough conditions, uncertain circumstances. may immediate drug unrunners or immigrant. we don't northeast the national guard. >> we note that both president obama and bush deployed the national guard and congressman if you would help texans to get parity with the number of border patrol agents per mile a new mexico, arizona, and california does, identity be with you. let's send the national guard home but get the same strength level at our other states have. >> i agree. our friends, chairman mike mccall, chairman of the home lean security committee, wrote a bill called the border security act. that would make sure we use exiting assets and deploy them based on risk without necessarily having to spend wind of dollars more to protect the border. we all would like to consider ourselves fiscal conservatives. if we're spending $18 billion a year, almost three times actual

lie what we were spending 15 years ago, you would think we would want to deploy those assets as wisely as possible. don't want to throw money to problem. we want to deploy assets where the risk is. >> congressman, when i was in laredo there was the national guard there and nobody really seemed to be upset because it was an initiative at the national level from a democratic practice. is it politics here? >> my position is just a little different. my position is that once they make that decision to bring the national guard down there i'm going tout those men and women. they cannot enforce the immigration laws. so all they do is -- they're there to support. now, did i personally think that the national guard was needed at this particular time? my answer was no. but once that decision was made, then let's go ahead because even border patrol said it was not a law enforcement issue because if

you saw the kids they were turning. thes in. in mission, texas, one time 281 kids and families just went in and said, here we are. i would have used the resources but d' -- >> focus on the kids, focus on the law enforcement side, the 80%. >> again, the focus is, once dps went down there, i'm going to support them. once the national guard went down there, i'm going to support them. national guard i think that could have waited a while but envelopes, i'll sport them. but you're right, they've been there for years and i've always told people they've been here a lot of years under ds and rs but understanding they're not there at the border enforcing immigration reform. >> colonel, when the border surge was announced recently, dps was very specific to send out -- i think it was a separate statement saying they're not going to do road blocks because that raised concern about immigration checks, and that

doing any immigration enforce. what exactly is the state police's roll when it comes asking somebody they think its an um documented immigrant and how can you try to calm some nerves that this might be a quote-unquote racial profiling when there's a surge of law enforcement down there. >> saw the makeup of our patrol force they wouldn't call it racial profiling, but recognize that first and foremost, their job is to support state law. if they have reasonable suspicion a federal crime is being engaged, let's sea bailout situation, the border patrol addresses it. we don't work immigration. we don't want to do enforce: >> 287g is the train component where state based -- law enforcement can do immigration. >> dep pew ties the state troopers or deputies to do the paperwork as it relates to i.c.e., immigration and customs enforcement for removal.

we have enough to do, we want to stay on the highways. number two, the one that called for the regulatory checkpoints is none other than myself. so i am the one that made that call on that. the point was that, hey, this is a very cost effective and efficient way to do compliance issues as relates to the driver's license, compliance and also insurance compliance. and bottom line is, it detracted from our security operations because it sounded and feared that we were operating these all the time. even though they were consistent with the supreme court rulings on this. so i made a commitment to -- the senator said he didn't like it, he thinks it was detracting, so i shut it down. we will not be doing those unless the state legislature says we want the department of public safety to do these regulatory check points under these certain guidelines. >> what do the next few months have if the numbers keep dropping? this was a hot news item.

a lot of journalists were in the valley for six weeks, some didn't leave. it seemed to have subsided. congressman you made the mention it could be because of the weather, because of other factors. how long is dps goes to be down there? >> just implement policy. until the legislature tells to us be down there. >> you want to continue the ceremony. >> we're overlooking the basic problem. your serge is base -- your surge is focused on the rio grande valley isn't you're. that's 120-miles out of the 1,200,000,000 border. we're focusing on 10% of the border. >> they have 56% of the problem. >> but until and unless we're able to address the whole border, 1200 miles, don't think

most texans will be satisfied the state or the federal got ah of government has done enough to stop illegal immigration. the whole subject of guest visas -- that's where i think the country has to go. at some point. but, again, not a pathway to citizenship but at least the people that want to be here and work. that they can have a visa. but we're never going to get there until we secure the border. >> what are you, lieutenant governor, willing to do to do that? we could literally place a border patrol agent one foot appar from the next agent or have tanks line end up or wall the entire border or, as stephen colbert said, put a moat with alligators and electrified fences? what are we willing to do to achieve that? how much do you want to spend, how many people? it's an unrealistic goal to get too 1100% deterrence or 100% security. >> never going to get to 100%.

right now the rio grande valley, on apprehensions, which doesn't mean the total number of people crossing the border illegally. what -- you have a 65% drop from when you started on june 23rd. but that is not victory until you shut the border down. now, that is the reason, congressman, that i -- didn't it alone but working with the senate and the house, we appropriated almost $800 million to give both high altitude intoeder aircraft helicopters so that we can have a force multiplier so we don't have to have everyone within a foot of each other. so that we can be efficient and we can give the people of texas the confidence. ...

>> i have had a disagreement with both administrations on this issue because if you look at what numbers the border patrol you should have for apprehension there are some areas that have very, very low apprehensions' but a lot of border patrol. i think some of that should be shifted. when we added a thousand new border patrol in 2010 half of them went there is a -- arizona.

i tell the commissioner. he said, they will be a mobile strike force. i said to look, mobile strike force? they can be moved around any time. once they buy homes and several families they're not really very mobile. it would all this happened as of of the mobile strike force, and he just looked at me with a blank stare. have had disagreements with how they should move that. should move people around. but the other thing to let me just say this to all we're talking about is playing defense. we still have to work with mexico and the other countries because if not i would rather play defense on their 20-yard line instead of covering every year. one of the things we have been asking mexico this chestnut -- or to start really focusing of the guatemalan border is five. >> have they done that? >> there are starting to do that. when i was there may literally had people in ramps and going up, no

control at all. it is open down there that all we will do is play defense on the 1 yard line. >> i agree. i think the reason that the apprehensions are low is directly it dribble to the buildup in that area sending a strong message that we will not tolerate unlawful entry. the reason why it is so bad today as compared to a beckett -- a decade ago is the warring drug cartels. we need a unified summit, and the way that we measure the metric system of the big question of what is as secure borders is to put the resources necessary for border security. as a part of that modernize prem create a southwest border security commission because there is no one time we have arrived element made up a bipartisan members of the house and senate. they are appointed, and to make them report to congress and the president before you guys vote on how much securities appropriations every year make certain that

choice's people on the border that we work with every day are telling the stories of men that i think we can get to the part where we need to be. >> and what i said the other night was that if we can get congress with republicans and democrats to work together and we can start working with our friend, our partner, the country of mexico. we can solve this. my heart goes out to mexico and everything that they have done. 40,000 people have been killed because of the narco trafficking and the drugs in northern mexico. so they have been fighting this war, but we need to come together and start, just like you said, playing maybe not on the top but extra stop them from coming here. >> you mentioned h.r. 1417, and that was legislation that was authored by

conservative republican in the house of let security committee that the bipartisan support what is next for washington? continued gridlock? >> that bill, despite passing of committee unanimously with of bipartisan support has stalled because in everyone's mind, as you said at the outset border security is tied to immigration. because immigration is not moving forward this component of what the country sees is immigration is not moving forward. let me say one big thing and your last question, and in el paso last year the average agent may forever inches during the entire year to the point that the commissioner and the congressman is making, we can better deploy current assets which the bill would give us some forced to do, and to the fear that you speak of, a lieutenant governor, i see it in washington d.c. you have to wear a bulletproof vest when he walked around the streets of of passover. a security detail. and we say things are not

true about murderous immigrants, about bullets flying, ball's going off, the border being unsafe, i cannot tell you how much it hurts this state, the community ever present, the people that i care for debate makes it difficult for us to get ahead. and when up as its head, ran up a margie be above the state gets a head. as you said, texas is mexico's number one trading partner. jobs are connected to more opportunities connected, and we operate out of fear and greed additional anxiety it makes it hard for us to capitalize. we must all the traffic and work in the truth. >> i think you are misrepresenting what is being said. i think of passover is as a city. i have been there many times i will see it again. it is a safe city from what i see, but the border is not safe. it is a fact that hundreds of thousands of crimes have been committed by people that have come into taxes from our southern border of the years, including a lot of murders.

those are facts. >> can you -- >> that is a fact. i saw the statistics. from what i understand, those were charges. i ask in the communication whether those were charges our conviction. and those have been charges. so how many of those actually were convictions? do we have a number? >> i don't have the exact number of convictions. simply what it was. >> charges. >> and that 70 plus% approximately of the border. >> the unincorporated area, but everybody just blames the ever grants. every time is a problem is the emigrants. we have had people cross the border. i will use the line that i used last time. the event people moving across borders. we have to have some sort of sensible, comprehensive immigration reform. you know, there is a story about this person who was in charge of the border. he self by families come in and start taking over some of the land.

this person says we have to do something about those families to the kick them out. he wrote a letter to the central authority. that was written in 1830 by a mexican officer, five families cross our red river into taxes, taken over the part that used to be mexico. so we have had this issue about people crossing over, but we just cannot demonize the folks. you know, and lure radar -- and laredo the murder rate a couple of years ago was three murders per hundred thousand. in washington d.c. where we work it is 15 murders per hundred thousand. so, i mean, at any time you start attacking a community it is hard to get doctors. or of the reasons we get the doctors at the clinic in laredo is because there are free to come. and this is a true story. we could not even get some of the military folks from san antonio to stay because they said it was too

dangerous. and i called and said what the heck perry of doing saying that the border is too dangerous? first of all, your military. second of all, you're on the u.s. side. how can you say it's too dangerous? look, do we have to watch? yes. we always have to watch. though we just cannot demonize. >> you want to start lining up for questions but i think we're about to segue into that type. >> very quickly, henry, you know very well. all right. i am not talking -- we are talking about securing the border from all law enforcement point of view. you know that there may be some people that try and demonize people that are crossing the border, but commissioner staples and david dewhurst are not people that do that. we are not talking about that. >> listen, you guys, all i

have to say is, yes, we have to secure the border. yes, what tonal values it because it is always important. this terrorists came in through the southern border. you know, every time there's a threat is always the southern border, the southern border, the southern border, just as concerned about the northern border parts abroad to cut you off there. >> 47% came in through legal visas. >> yes, we have to. >> ma'am. >> good morning. [inaudible question] >> good morning congressman, the commissioner, colonel, my name is elizabeth cent of the. i am a student from dallas. over the last year's these human border conversations between immigration reform, patrol and security and the emergence of terrorism. so in europe in why have these shifts occurred, and

do you believe it is possible this of all three of these problems if they are a problem, with one clear, comprehensive solution or is it necessary for us to make a separate issues that will lead to discharge its solutions? >> individual policy. i mean cover it does not seem like anybody is getting anywhere but anything comprehensive. >> the warring drug cartels have heightened the level of physical attacks on one another. we have suffered from that. and secondly, and i attempted to daikon made is easier for an employer to hire someone here that is undocumented then it is to hire legally documented workers. and that is a tragedy because our system is fail then broken. that is where it leaves us today. that is why we need a dynamic trading partner, but we also need to acknowledge is that we have a closed border. otherwise children could not walk across it from border was secured. that is only a camouflage

for the drug cartels to do whatever they want. >> on that note i will interject. there was a few who would have cracked down on hiring undocumented folks, the construction industry. that did not get anywhere with the republican governor . >> i think both parties have let us tell when it comes to secure airport. there is no doubt about it. that is why we're here today to talk about the solutions. >> my name is laura. thank you for being here today. border security is not only stopping emigrants to buy it is the u.s. citizens being recruited by the criminals across the border because the drug lords don't always crossover, and some of them even live in the united states legally pay by the citizens and sometimes police officials. it would be better to maybe have more fbi involved, more intelligence instead of having more boots.

>> i guess maybe that is troop and the intelligence on this side because to her point, i u.s. citizen recruited. so how well is intelligence to ferret out people? >> articulate. well, the cartel operating model is corrupt, not just mexico but on this side of the border. concerned about his command we have had some reason tragedies undermining the democratic rule will law enforcement officers betray the trust the people and got a dark side. clearly it is a problem. secondly, as pointed out, we do have commanding control elements so. and the games is most disturbing that i think you're referring to pre transnational innings. we're talking of a state based gains, texas and the kick of a mexican mafia, a tangle blast, a recent case were just to show you how you can get over there really driving factor of this border, about the drug's, a chinese gang

working with the bloods working with the mexican mafia working with the tanker blast and working with the gulf cartel. and, by the wake of the aryan brotherhood. you can only take race along when there's money put studies law that established? >> well, policymakers from a practitioner, a former fbi, worked the corruption peace towards the transnational being with the all of those models debate takes boots and it takes wingtips. you have to do it all. and you have to target command-and-control. the capacity in the area of operation, and we will talk about capacity, stash houses, that is corruption and command-and-control peabody have to look at the command and control. but at the end of the day, you know, when the cartels can move people -- people forget that you get 2,000, if you just like the number of people that had been apprehended in texas this year to between 51,000

domestic cartels get 2000, number, lowball that number $2,000 apiece, that is a low number, that's a half a billion dollars were talking about. and that is just the ones that were apprehended. it is big money. the idea that they are involved in all of these criminal activities, the way you can slow that down. frankly, we helped is the mexican cartel paid to the extent that we can hurt them. >> let me just add one thing. we have to recognize that the drug cartels are transnational. they don't just a in their area. the mexican drug cartels are over 250 american cities including here in austin. they don't do the same thing that they do over there, the type of violence because our civil institutions are a lot stronger, presence, prosecutors, jails. everything, judges, stronger. and those countries when you

have several institutions that are weak and the drug organizations can come in and permeated in takeover. so we have to recognize it is a transnational organization that we have to fight with intelligence and cooperation with other countries. >> good morning. i am little confused. the congressman stated that they were told that isis is not a threat to texas, but last night in the debate the attorney general said that he had prosecuted successfully in isis terrorist. who is telling the truth? >> welcome what he is not here, but on the other is and what it was suspected that. >> i can reiterate that we heard from the four highest levels of federal law-enforcement this week, categorically no no threat or credible intelligence linking and ices plot or for that matter any terror organization on our southern border. this is not new.

someone sent me at light from the of passover are opposed, a libyan hit squads suspected on the border. whenever we're scared of something in this country we project that fear to the border. the soviets are coming in through mexico, lydian terrorists are coming into mexico. hezbollah, and it is just not true. and those of us who live there have responsibilities to share this facts. >> what is true factually is that three ukrainians were apprehended in brewster county, texas. what is true is that an early dictionary was found says after people were fleeing and border patrols chasing them. i mean, these are all real facts that people are coming into the united states. >> and this is documented by law-enforcement. >> it is very real. >> what is true as you're finding pair rocks along the brush near the border. what is true, the head of isis said and i am concerned

about the northern border, the southern border, i will see you in new york. >> and -- >> please understand tow we're saying. earlier saying that there is no critical right now. it does not mean that we could not. keep in mind that through the use of social media, the with the drug organizations and drug cartels use, the way they're recruited some of the kits to comment, the bad guys are doing that right now. and through social media, how do you think that they have been able to recruit about 100 americans to go over there? in europe over 2,000 posts foreign fighters have gone over to syria. i mean, yes. the effect can come from outside, but it could be somebody who is disillusioned and was to belong to something. they may think that this is the group. >> my name is albert tow.

i ranch and have a two-part question. one is, what are the pursuit protocols with dps agents that are down in the valley? and what are the mechanisms for repairs to private property and damages that might occur during those pursuits? >> pursue a policy is simple . if someone runs it is a felony. and we will attempt to apprehend them. however, if any time the risk of weather is a great rest of the public that trooper is obligated to shut it down. there's a point where we will chase them so far. we will not camino -- we have a policy where we disregarded, but there is a point where you can endanger the public. we have an obligation to look command have to look at the totality of the circumstances, and every situation is different. >> and the mechanisms? >> not that i'm aware of.

>> is this something you think should be? >> that is a policy decision >> let me just say something on that to at least on the federal side, i sat down with all lot of ranchers, and on the federal side that is an issue also. so i got the gao already doing a study right now to find mechanisms and ways that so we can come back and your reimbursements mechanism because i know it is an issue at least on the federal side. repairing. and we have to find a way that is a little more efficient that right now. rex think you congressman. thank you, congressman. >> the effort of hundreds of thousands of people come across the border, and we have heard of finding prayer rugs. her out of the gate to separate fear mongering from poetry from fact? how many of these thousands of people are in fact have been found guilty of

anything? >> that kind of goes back to the question of charges and convictions but said this of list border security commission is a real way to do that in a bipartisan way we have five republicans and democrats from the southern border states to look at this annually before the congress votes on appropriations suspect and see the numbers and separate fact from fiction. think that as a way to bring us together, not from political people but appointees from both the speaker and the minority leader and the same set up in the senate and then the president would be the way to approach that. zinn not delay. putting the resources there and then to have that oversight, it's a good method to address your question. of very real question. >> senator jeff like, if i could just have this. >> quickly. >> senator jeff blake has said that both of us agree that if you have a good, efficient guest worker plant

republican come in and do the work, coming in for economic reasons and border patrol and other law enforcement can focus on the guys that have a different artist. >> yes. i am a student at the university of texas border and raised in laredo. my question is -- >> that is a double yes yes. >> my question, the detention centers. over the summer there was an increase in women and children. detained and sent to detention centers that look like a jail cells. our defense is based upon what cnn and fox news was covering what the cameras. my question is, how will the detention centers change to accommodate for the women and children that are not criminals but are just crossing to be with family? >> of very large detention center not too far, well, about three hours from help nasa, taxes and have been out there now twice. it is really a deportation

facility where families come men. 833 family members so far. i believe all of to have been bonded out, one at $25,000 because this 45 year-old guatemalan moment with to those children is a national security threat. ever 250 have been deported back to the countries of origin and yet do not need to tell you that they are fleeing violence in dangerous situations that in many cases they're also trying to reunite with family in the united states. think we owe it to ourselves in this country to honor the best traditions of the united states and make sure that these people fleeing violence are taking care of, we of for them to process, and where we can we take the most humane option possible. this is not something new limit we have done this for many peoples over many decades and hundreds of years. this is the latest opportunity for the country to put his best foot forward and hit. >> thank you for the question. >> this is that tough and

not conversation. we are inflating immigration security and crime. and based on presumptions, criminality based on ethnicity your geography, but when you separate the two men just like a crime, have from up as a landreau truck and van but growing up in el paso, the news every night is nothing compared to austin and dallas and houston. a crime that here -- >> the question taken from school and sexually assaulted not an illegal immigrant. a civilian employee of the army. there was a heinous crime that was conducted in a passel of men said the woman, she was pregnant and she died but he that was a soldier. so when he look at actual

crimes the way it is not people from all pestle. by and large these are being conducted by military personnel in the community. a strange question because that does not fall upon the ford europe created, but that is a reality. so maybe you could -- >> if you don't mind. i think the chief of police, the community, law and order and law enforcement, they do a great job. in the crime is different. in terms of how far compared to the same thing in the radar. the same thing. >> it is not. >> one last question. >> the opportunity to go. at the end of july. and work with the refugees. as used to call the refugees. i think they have been pretty poorly portrayed by the media.

a lot of desperate people trying to flee the circumstances. because we have such a polarized nation third quarter of representatives of the state of texas during to let all when security and every other representative understand that we will never be able to bill all along the entire edge of texas that will keep people in our route says. if you want to know how it felt to me, it's like a police state for americans. the central americans. my dad grew up -- >> the question. >> the question is, does the -- does -- do all of you ever make employees in your commentary to people to let them understand that border security cannot just be a

wall? there are people that things go well will take care of it it won't take care of it. is to be much more holistic. so, i mean, is that something you are getting? are you doing anything about talking about it? >> the solutions. friday for a mexican president to get on the other side of the law and say, mr. president, teardown as wall as ronald reagan did some years ago. we have to look get security . find the best way to address that and then make sure that we work with our international partners. >> we're out of time. thank you so much. [inaudible conversations]

>> on our next washington journal : a conversation on women in the november elections. talk to the president of pro-choice america. russell more of the southern baptist convention joins us to discuss the role that evangelicals are playing in the 2014 campaign. washington journal is live each morning. you can also join the conversation on facebook and twitter. >> c-span campaign 2014 coverages bringing you more than 100 debates for the control of congress. when he will find out our website, c-span.org, between the kendis from michigan governor. facing democratic challenger here's a look.

before the overturning of michigan's a marriage ban will you as the attorneys general to pursue the appeal for there or let the matter rest? >> again, there are separate constitutional offices. i am going to wait for the opinion to come down. that is the hypothetical. i will respect what happens in our court system. >> moderator: where the stand on the issue? >> i am waiting and have come from the courts. >> moderator: okay. congressman. snyder: i think the voters deserve to know. now, you may not agree with me and every issue. you may know the truth in the issue of marriage to quality of marriage equality discrimination will play no part in my office as governor. his statement leads you to believe he has no position.

this government through his own legislature banned domestic partner benefits for gay and lesbian state employees. his tough choices are tough all the wrong people, hurting people and very our family spirit of support marriage equality. my running mate open their office to marry same-sex couples. finally, it is not only the right thing to do, but it is an economic issue here in our state. to discriminate against talented people would need to help rebuild the city of detroit and our community is wrong. i talked to parents to have adult children who are professionals and live in other states and will come here because we have ' policies. and you have challenged, appealed the decision. so you are a party to opposing marriage equality in michigan. i think that is wrong. i disagree. sphinx. >> a review of the debate

between the candid it's. incumbent democrat mary lender faces republican challengers. congressman bill cassidy will return. live coverage at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> c-span 2015 student can competition is under way. this nationwide competition for middle and high school students will award one under and 50 prizes totaling $100,000. create a 5-7 minute documentary on the topic the three branches and you. videos need to include c-span programming, show varying points of view, and must be submitted by january january 20th, 2015. go to a student can doubt or for more information. rabbit camera, and get started today. >> according to the bureau of justice statistics and a half million people are in prison in the united states. next, to ex-convict, a

former prison warden and investigative reporter discuss incarceration rates and criminal justice reforms. this is an hour and 15 minutes. [inaudible conversations] >> good evening. good evening. good evening and welcome, everyone. particular, if this is your first visit to the california endowment center for of the communities, we will commute. for those who are returned visitors, welcome back. always glad to have you believe my name is dr. bob ross, president of the call for an academic endowment, one of a series of evening conversations that we have about issues of the day. typically health and civic minded issues of the day. this particular conversation tonight is timely and compelling in powerful.

this issue, the topic of this issue and the timing of it is interesting for me personally. it goes back 30 years for me when i was a practicing pediatrician in the clinic in camden, new jersey. 1984 is when the crack cocaine hit the streets of urban america. and then -- and when some evil genius invented crack cocaine, it made cocaine, which is an intensely addictive, intensely euphoric short acting drug which was previously not very available to lower income people and low-income families because it was too expensive, but when crack was invented the affordability of crack of cocaine wind down from $100, hundred dollars and hired a firebox.

and crack cocaine swept the nation and influenced the neighborhood that i practiced in seeing more premature babies in more infant mortality and more youth violence and, science and assaults that sexually transmitted diseases and all kinds of things just exploded and went through the roof, not just in camden , new jersey but across major urban centers in america. the reason i share that is because that was the very same time that give us the war on drugs, the so-called war on drugs as well as three strikes and you're out as well as the zero tolerance culture that has permeated our criminal justice system and our schools and law enforcement. and so here we are 30 years later, and we still have this problem.

and so the conversation tonight, some extraordinary experts contend want to introduce the person who will bring up the moderator and the panel. and that is a great visionary combat extraordinary founder and director and publisher of soaker burke public square car round of applause with his great civic leader xbox leyna. [applause] >> thank you. >> thank you. thank you, dr. ross. thank you to the california endowment for co presented tonight with us. just briefly, sokol a public square is an ideas exchanged. admission is to connect people to ideas into each other. we partner with a team of educational, cultural, and philanthropic institutions as well as public agencies to prevent -- to public events and journalism that we syndicate to 100 media outlets throughout the country and the world

including time, the "washington post," smithsonian command "usa today" all of of our office in santa monica with ten people it of our journalism which will publish seven days a week as freak's command all of our events are free domestic representative bentsen 30 venues in 15 cities. we invite you to join us at the circle a public square website for what we think is the most thoughtful and intelligent idea journalism and southern california and beyond. you might know us as the guys who put on the events and to serve you one afterwards. [laughter] we want you not only to listen, we want you to engage with the speakers. what you to form comedic that you may not have formed afterwards. right behind us in the courtyard. you can fan us on facebook and follow us on twitter. if you're treating tonight, we will be using-tax live prison. before our program begins with like to know of your upcoming events we're having in los angeles.

as corporate america not to much about you? a cape. what could speed up traffic in l.a.? will young californians ever be able to retire? these are all yes no questions pivotal downtown l.a. rival the west side? a real big question of our time. if you have already please take a moment of silence your phone spin after japan's progress phase i hope you join this to me with each other in the courtyard. before i end, we are happy that c-span is here recording tonight's event to later played for national broadcast. and now i'm very much -- i am happy to be introducing mr. templeton. [applause] >> he has worked as journalist and an art @booktv nearly 30 years primarily as an investigative reporter and foreign correspondent. is worth giving book is about the history of

america's detention of terror suspects at guantanamo bay, currently managing editor for investigations and news at the marshall project, not profit non-partisan his organization dedicated to covering america's criminal-justice. please give a warm welcome. [applause] >> thank you very much. and a native californian, no you pride yourself on tolerance including a high tolerance for self-promotion i would like first selena that verges said that if you have enough interest to our subject tonight to make your way to through rush-hour traffic i hope you will all become readers of the marshall project only loss in the fall. we will be delivering a steady diet of news to about daily coverage and ambitious investigative reporting that will hopefully cast some new light on the criminal-justice system and solutions.

and after many years of relative paralysis, this is a time of a lot of policy experimentation in almost every facet of the system, so much so that it is hard not to be hopeful on sundays that this system is starting to change is a pretty fundamental ways. but today is not that day was one of those days. this morning the big striking is the criminal-justice was that the number of people incarcerated and around the country is actually going up rather than down which had been the trend line in american prisons over the previous four years. so the idea that we had turned the corner after three decades of steady rise in incarceration was may be overly of domestic. california was right in the center of this, of course love for the last few years it has been helping to the national incarceration rate down. this year, as people have noted, california's numbers are. once again specialists so

goes the country. the number of people and federal prison to a decline for the first time in memory, and that is, perhaps, the best is given that the bureau of prisons population had been rising much faster than that of the states of the last decade. some states, new york, new jersey, why were all down and have been steadily down for a decade to the point that they can claim the distinction of having an incarceration rate lower than cuba's which is better than most of the countries where many of the big states the overall things are bad on both ends. more people coming into the system then in the previous year and fewer getting out. tonight we have a great and rich panel to help us try to unpack that and make some sense of it. susan burton lost her son in an accident when he was five

and then spent the better part of two decades stuck in the criminal-justice system before she made her way out in 1997. she has been focused on reentry efforts ever since, sounding a new way of life, reentered project which provides resources like housing and case management and legal services to people trying to rebuild their lives. a long career in criminal justice starting as a correction officer in san quit 1978. she rose to become a wharton and five years later was brought in to direct the california department of corrections and rehabilitation and became the department's undersecretary the next year. she has worked as an advocate in a position to the death penalty and is now less senior fellow at the berkeley center for criminal-justice. profit walker was a different kind of insider in the system, having been

sentenced to six years in prison for gasol when he was 16 years old he helped start a two-year college degree program while he was incarcerated which gave new opportunities to young inmates, and he is a founding member of the entire recidivism coalition, which helps young people get a fresh start after incarceration and was an important force in lobbying for changes in juvenile justice wiling california. currently running for the state assembly from compton and wants to north long beaks and assistant professor and department of criminology, law, and society at the university of california irvine. research focuses primarily on prisons, prisoners' rights, and the impact of present and punishment policy on individuals, communities, and legal systems. she is also going to be the author of a forthcoming book

about pelican bay. so welcome to all of you. [applause] just to start, i would love it if you could give us a sense of what you made of the news today, the optimism misplaced that things are starting to change the fundamental like? >> i think for me what i began to see was twofold. so there was some optimism that just because we want to see constant declining numbers, but i think there was a new optimism that arrows in me, which is targeting know if this second strike within our two strikes law. we build this huge campaign for the third strike within our three strikes law, but the second strike doubles the amount of time that

people actually get once they commit a second strike offense, which has what is happening in california is, that has now increased the length of time that each inmate is actually spending in our prison systems. and so i think that because of these numbers we will be able to open a dialogue on how we know reform the second strike as well and continue to take these incremental steps to see where all -- real reform because one of the things that the numbers pointed out is that california and texas wisely impact to the overall percentage. and so if we can make real change within our policy and our laws i think we will see those numbers decline again. >> i think there was some good news in the numbers. as you mentioned, new york continues -- their contribution rate continues to get time to buy and they have been at this for a long

time. you know, california is just slowly doing these things and we certainly need to do more of, as you mentioned, and second strike law. .. the ballot that is looking at sentencing, prop 47, which voters will have an opportunity to vote on, but overall, i think that we need to look at states that have that kind of success, like new york, and hopefully at some point have our legislature look at sentencing overall. we're just chipping away at it a rule at a time. we're still heading in the right direction, re-alignment was a step in the right direction but many of the counties have not embraced re-alignment which is not to incarcerate people but to ute lie the money the state is given them to address incarceration. we other need to look at counties doing that well, like san francisco and others, and try to implement policies that hold the other counties accountable for using that funding in the way it was intended.