they have no concept. they have no national concept but it's a different issue in china than with respect to the muslim world in the religion and the state emerged. >> i'm going to see if we can get somebody all the way back in the last row. yes. >> $500 for derek's last game by the way. >> i wanted to thank his excellency for all the wonderful things that he's had to say over his career on the importance of statesmanship and statesmanship

wasn't mentioned tonight. and i wonder where can we learn how to be better statesman unaware is statesmanship being talked anyplace in the country that you can sit on as fulfilling that role that was developed in your own writing over the years that reflected on this book. >> that's a very important question because statesmanship consists of helping to lead your society from where it is to where it hasn't been switched me the combination of courage and

character and above all since the trends of the period -- our society is extremely pragmatic and continuous problem-solving rather than the reflection of the historical revolution as its principal objective. there are two other obstacles were two other problems we face.

our process is getting so complicated and so expensive that leaders have to spend so much of their time on the process and raising money and answering questions on television shows that there isn't enough time to reflect about the direction of the future. if you look in the 19th century, they had a succession of prime minister in salisbury for almost a century all of whom whatever differences they had about the

actions and the reason they lived in an environment in which these values were sort of taken for granted. and therefore provided the basis for the creative thinking. i'm very worried and i said in the book about the impact of the way history is taught -- >> you know what occurred to me if you try to go to pakistan and china with today's technology, somebody would have taken a picture of you and send it out and the whole secret would have

been blown before you ever got to beijing. we have time for a couple more questions. i'm sorry folks. [applause]

in the invisible soldiers and writes about how private contractors have displaced the u.s. military and overseas operations. she spoke recently at the washington, d.c. bookstore. >> good evening. thank you so much for coming. hello. my name is sarah and i'm the event coordinator here and on behalf of the entire staff i'm happy to welcome you tonight for one of the first events where we got started in earlier september. and i hope if you haven't already that you will take a moment and pick up one of our events calendars and if you haven't already, please follow us on facebook, twitter and sign

up for the e-mail newsletter. thank you for coming. i'm pleased to welcome you and especially to welcome the invisible soldiers. the book tells of the privatization of america's national security and exposes where the industry came from, how it operates, and where it is heading. the journalist who's been a staff writer at "the wall street journal" and has taught writing at northwestern and at columbia her previous books on wild ride of a ransom beyond the river and savage piece. please join me in welcoming her to kramer books. >> thank you sarah. it's great to be here. and especially its it's great to be here because i am honored by the presence of another writer

on the topic, david isenberg who is sitting in the front row and some familiar faces of people i've known for a long time to come to this event. the invisible soldier as sarah said as the story is the story of the privatization of defense and security. it is a narrative nonfiction book that is a trajectory to link to stories from the mercenary renaissance of the second half into the age of drones. it's basically the story of the rise of a new industry. the military and security companies. some refer to this as the corporate evolution of the mercenary trade. but as i have been saying on the road, the word mercenary is loaded and i try from the very beginning to erase it from the

discussion because it mercenaries it has to be defined as an individual. it conjures the rather unsavory image involved in the old world mercenaries and involved of mercenaries and involved in the postcolonial neocolonial conflict and it's not that it won't exist anymore, but to call these companies and this industry that i am telling you about that you will read about mercenaries is a little misleading because today's version is fundamentally different. completely different. and it is a critical factor of course that it is the modern corporate business form. these companies are organized and incorporated into the registered businesses. and they trade and compete

internationally. they recruit internationally. they run to the outside financial buildings. and the vast range of services in many of the markets worldwide. and so, one thing that i've learned while i've been on the road is that there are many misconceptions, and one of course is that these companies are just about u.s. contracts. they are just about iraq or about blackwater. some people know of them only through headlines about scandals. there are many misconceptions and we will get to a few discussions on that later. ..

to the new markets and the need in iraq. we have a boost in the bonanza u.s. contracts in the war in iraq and then we go forward to now we could be facing what some people are calling the second contractor's war. but as i said what i want my

readers to be as fascinated by sim and has been for the last several years is the evolution and the vast array of services that the company's offer. everything from it just takes support which is something we all know about your halliburton and iraq logistics support, air transport, intelligence analys analysis, militia training, weapons maintenance, weapons training. and police training. a vast array of services and of course armed security. and in many markets on every

continent these companies have a presence and they recruit internationally and they do serve as brokers periodically for mercenaries. we have some companies that are focused on armed security and some that some people call the department stores at of defense and security and offer a wide range of armed and unarmed services. wherever instability threatens development on the global frontier, wherever military commitments exceed the capabilities of nations, wherever governments are used as incapable of supplying defense security fast enough in times of steady conflict, that's where there are markets for these companies. more specifically in the united states of course they assist in contingency operations as we

know and remain long after traditional troops withdraw. they also are involved in counterterrorism strategies, diplomatic security, border patrol security, drone operations and cybersecurity and intelligence analysis. there are other markets. there are other markets in other countries, of course other nations and with multinational companies. multinationals hire these companies for arms securities and development and this has been happening for a long time. the shipping industry, one of the biggest markets is the maritime industry, maritime security which is a fascinating story in and of itself. each one of these areas and i

would say one of the challenges has been the fact that in each one of these areas i could've written a single book. i could've written a 10-volume set and just the story of the development of maritime security really is because the shipping industry debated this for a long time. but the invisible soldier is a narrative nonfiction book. what i'm trying to do is to show you hear a story, through the trajectory of the rise of this industry exactly how all of this happened. to hopefully pass on the fascination and interest that i have put onto as a general reader. this is a relatively new industry and it has what i call the portal of permits.

it's part of our world. it's part of the u.s. defense and security strategy and it has a worldwide presence. in the book what i do is move you through the trajectory through introducing individuals and i take you to london and he it's sort of follows me around and i take you to london and as one journalist says if you want to understand the origins of the mercenary you have to go to london first. i hope i'm not stepping on toes nationally in this round but it's fascinating in that way because many of the origins support many of the models of some excellent companies in this arena. where it began in london or in england. in geneva were introduced these to some fascinating individuals who have been working since 2006

on something called the swift initiative which is an international effort to monitor the armed sector of this industry. the name of the chapters conquering chaos. that was a great adventure and i hope you will see it the same way. to think that since 2006 there have been groups meeting in geneva to work on a process that will more closely monitor it. it's kind of exciting. i also take you to kansas to the command's general staff college at fort leavenworth where i spent some time interviewing people in the military because i wanted to get the military's perspective on this and that's

where i learned one of the most interesting aspects of the debate over the use of these companies which is the difference between efficiency and effectiveness. insight -- if i get into this now i will be here for the next two hours. maybe somebody in the audience will ask that question but anyhow, and then i'd take you to congress and several congressional hearings and some people in congress who have been trying for more accountability and i take you to new mexico to an interesting place where they there are security contractors being trained. and i introduce you to people within the industry. like i said people in the military, and congress, people in the industry who have been involved in it from the earliest

stages including some of the journalists who have been following it like david isenberg is sitting right here. but what i try to do and hopefully i've succeeded, is to pull together the strands of this very large story and to show you the component of the evolution of the industry, the rise of the dam the spread and to put a human face on those components. i also take you to the story of the u.s. special forces operative who was shot by a u.s. private military pit -- military contractor in baghdad. so there are, and i introduce you to several companies that i think are quite interesting in their success. one thing that is very important

to me as i was saying earlier are the blurred misconceptions. i also learned there's a great deal of interest in this topic. people want to go beyond blackwater. they want to go beyond the headlines and they want to know what this industry is about and to what degree are we reliant. what part of our defense and security is part of it. oftentimes there is an image, and this is probably from my pulling together the details of the book into three to five minute radio spots which have been great, thank you radio but what i don't want to happen is any sensationalizing on this. one of my quests in this book is to tell a compelling story

eyebrow something that is part of our industry and part of world history as a result of globalization and is part of the privatization trend and evolution of privatization and move of privatization and to various arenas and for you to see that by following this industry, by understanding it better you can see a shift in the conduct of war. you can see a shift in our defense strategies from military missions into stability and security operations. you can see the greater use of contractors. for example in africans recently the u.s. authorization, defense authorization act had a report attached to it about the need for greater monitoring of private contractors in africans which is a unified command in africa.

it's something that's going to continue evolving and growing. the shift in the conduct of war also shows by some accounts the beginning of the fading of the nation-state. these are international companies. it shows the operation, they operate in a borderless business environment. and in the book it's a nonpartisan book. it is hopefully a fair analysis because i get on the inside of the military, the inside of the industry and also i introduce some contractors and several in fact. so part of that misconception is that they are all bad and when you read the book you will see several congressional hearings included in the book and one of

them was in 2011, a hearing that was focused on the exploitation of contractors. some of the problems with their health care health care, their food, their lodging in certain situations. what you have in this country anyhow or in all nations when there is a contract that is given out there are layers of subcontracts and so these subcontractors were addressed largely in that congressional hearing which is really fascinating. one of the big questions on the road which of course is something i was asking all throughout my research and writing which has been of great concern and should be of great

concern to all of us actually. a couple of radio shows, call-in shows people would say weisser weissert -- why should we care? that is a really big question. why should we care? at somebody else is doing our defense and security and providing it like i said i have been fair. some of these companies are excellent. the excellent companies don't want the bad companies. they don't want the headlines about that behavior. they been working on an international code of conduct. but why should we care and that in the question lies the answer. why would we be asking that question if there wasn't a level of indifference. why should we care? i could actually be up here for another hour to tell you why you should care but i'm not going to force you to care. you need to care for several

reasons i think and i try to summarize this. you can listen to the microphone for 20 minutes and that's a major rip so it's up to the author to figure out how to condense some of the most important details and to me i could talk about several questions but this one is the one i care about the most because of the fact that it does show indifference. the reason that we need to care of course is partly because we need as citizens of a democracy to know the impact of war. and if we don't, we need to know, we need to ask for more transparency. we need to ask for more monitoring and accountability and in the book you'll see the efforts toward that in this country and as i said internationally.

but we need to have more transparency. we need to know what the role of private contractors going forward in contingency operations will be. and we need to know in the defense and security of our nation or our neighborhood. where do these people come from? who has trained them? what companies are they working for so that we can learn more details about this industry that has the wartime contracting commission after three years of studies in their report in august of 2011 declared that we are over reliance on private contractors. that included the vast stretch of private contractors in contingency operations with a large focus on this industry.

we can't just look the other way. we can't just say okay you to our defense and security. in several very passionate people in the military i interviewed, people very passionate on this topic. you have to feel something to win a war. you have to feel connected. the citizens of a democracy must feel connected to the defense of their nations. at the very least they need to know who's doing it. when we are told the casualties of the iraq war as an example we were not told the contractor casualties in between the spring of 2009 and i think the spring of 2011, the summer of 2011 but contractor casualties in iraq exceeded the traditional military. we need to know that. the time, we need to know it because i can give you many

statistics here but we need to know it because that's the only way we can as citizens understand the full impact of war and we have to know that in order to work with our policymakers and our congressman and women to make smart decisions about the security and the policies of our country. there is also one detail about the number of m.i.a.s when they left iraq. i think there were eight and by may of 2011 and seven not of age were private contractors. some of them would not be from the united states because they would have been subcontracted or are you have to look at the breakdown of different countries that we hire private security out of.

but seven out of 88. one was traditional military and that is another detail. but in the flow of the book, what i'm hoping is that you will become as interested as i am in all levels of this industry. the financial level, the expansion, the history, the origins, the need for more monitoring, the many markets and the many services and the major, some of the issues like i said at the contractors themselves. some of these statistics as i said are impossible. you can't really embrace the entire industry and say what the revenue numbers are or how big it is and how many people it employs.

so there are individuals and there are groups working on that at the moment also. but at any rate i wanted to read you a couple of quotes from very bright people that i interviewed and then we will move on to questions. i would like to read from the book but i had an editor years ago that said never fall in love with your own writing. when i'm on the road i shouldn't be reading all the details and all the paragraphs in my book. i should be reading from some of the sources. he never said don't follow the quotes of your sources. so there are several here. one of them is from -- if you wait one second.

actually let's do a quote at the very beginning from david isenberg who is sitting right here if it doesn't embarrass him. it's before congressional hearing and that sort of livens up and helps to give you a sense of how intense the reliance is. this is his statement about the u.s. government's dependence on private contractors for security. he said something back to the alien series, the film about the indescribable alien creature that has entered the bodies of humans. the humans. the humans look mum on the outside but inside the alien has wrapped itself around every organ and has become so entwined it cannot be excised. the human would die without it and hear the private military security companies are so entwined the government

collapsed -- the government would collapse without them. they may go to chris shays who was the former co-chairman of the contracting commission just in the spring of 2014. he made the comment, the one thing that is a give and we can't go to without contracts and they can't to peace without contractors. then they former british army -- the director of the company exceptionally bright and generous individual buried deeply involved in the industry for a long time, one of his quotes was that the private military and security companies will evolve into multinational and multifunctional firms so that governments and corporations will go to them as single servers.

and they are used to relying on them. what seems hidden now will be integrated so future generations won't know the difference. traditional militaries will become smaller and smaller and the industry will continue to grow. the one from a general at the command and general staff college who has been very knowledgeable on the topic and has been reading about it and informing himself and involving himself in some of the action in iraq said the nation-state with its ability to act militarily due to the reality is becoming increasingly vulnerable to avoid the complexity of government. that is reality and nothing

shows that more than the growth of the private military and security businesses. gradually systems of international security that have been in place for a long time are beginning to fall apart and the more anarchy worldwide the more these companies offer themselves as the solution. i think a really good quote to follow that up with is, to follow that one is a sort of less known quote by eisenhower. you'd know we all know in the council to government we must guard against the acquisition of unwanted influence sought by the military-industrial complex. that is the famous comment by eisenhower in his farewell address in january of 1951. i have to tell you if i had more time i'd go into details about being in abilene.

very fascinating to see their response to spreading the evolution of some of what he said. but one of the comments that you never really read about was the part of this morning in 1961. crises there will continue to be. in meeting them whether foreign or domestic big or small there is a recurring temptation here to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. so, that -- how many more minutes do i have? there are so many colorful people in this book. i think i actually will put aside my humility and read a

couple paragraphs. i will read you the first two paragraphs and then the beginning of a chapter that is about, i was thinking maybe doug brooks would come tonight and introduce you to the trade association for private military and security companies in the united states. first i will do one in tribute to doug brooks as soon as i read you the very beginning. this is a prologue. the book starts with a prologue to introduce the general reader to the topic or a story and then it's in three parts transformation to the beginning evolution of the industry and as i said the corporate evolution of the mercenary trade into

reaction part two and part three is expansion so you get a sense of all of the markets and the vast services provided by these companies. and the action includes congress, the military and geneva. this is the beginning. what the boy would remember most were the shoes. they were not his shoes and they didn't fit yet he was forced to wear them for nearly five hours as he crossed the desert in the middle of the night. at first glance they seem like ordinary leather shoes but they were different because the heels were at the front. shoes with backward heels and soles were the invention of the human smuggler who helps people like the boy and his parents to escape from iraq into kuwait. the idea was that of footprints were detected the path of the journey would appear to be reversed. although the boy longs to go home that night his astute

understanding that if he did his backward footprints would define a trail leading to the great border and exposed the families play. he was 14 years old when he was forced to leave iraq in april 1985. his mother awakened him shortly after midnight to tell him he would soon be going on a desert adventure. for the third time in a year he felt the anxiety of sudden change coursing through him like a forced injection. the first time they have been 11 months before one in the middle of the night he heard a russia rapid pounding on the roof above his bed. he had a dreamlike image that it was his brother coming home. he had fled to syria months before to avoid fighting for saddam hussein and the iraqi war against iran but he began to hear the loud cracking sound of the splintering wood followed by his mother screaming. soldiers of saddam's security

forces smashing the front door of his family home in basra and his mother watched as they dragged away his father who was suspected of betraying saddam and was wanted for information. the second shot came in the days and months that followed his father's disappearance when his teacher royal follower of saddam turned against him. if the school that i spend it easy for a good game now with his teachers brutal ritual of trashing his hand with a stick and then whipping his back in a pursuit of facts about his father or brother. this was information that could lead to the teacher's promotion but the boy insisted he knew nothing and that was the truth. only really knew was that fact he kept to himself. he was the first during a patriot he had ever felt there was strong enough to shape the rest of his life.

and let's see. there's a chapter called and now the debate. so this is a chapter where interview for people in washington and with the hopes that someday those poor people would like to participate in a public discourse on the topic so we would get deeply into everything from cost-effectiveness to the human cost to issues of subcontractors to monitoring oversight and transparency and so it begins with the head of the trade association doug brooks and so it begins authoritative -- torpedoes full speed ahead was the rallying cry of admiral david g. ferrick it at the

battle of mobile bay during the civil war and in february of 2012 it was the screen saver message flashing across doug burke's computer at the headquarters of the international facility operations association on high street in washington. from brooks office window window on the eighth floor he had a clear view of their kids square that featured a statue of the same union admiral. as brooks like to tell visitors very get was the first rear admiral vice admiral and admiral u.s. navy especially revered for conquering pirates in the west indies. brooks may have known this much about farragut as he did about the iso way which you not only headed that he founded and he was equally passionate about both. brooks was a driven and highly enthusiastic -- whose job was to clarify the mission and capabilities of private military security companies to the outside world. but not too much.

he was as one writer once described him that friendly public face of the multibillion dollar business. thus far he was successful in his realm as the hero. i could keep reading but i don't want to be -- in case my editor who told me not to fall in love with my own writing is listening. i thought those were two they are paragraphs to read you. so i think we should probably turn this session over to you and to questions. [applause] thank you very much. thanks to cramer's. long ago i met john gartner at cramer's books. he was standing right here, not right here but john brendel the

art of fiction. so do you have questions? yes. [inaudible] >> that is has actually, i spend every friday for three months at the command and general staff college and sat in on some group discussions because they had a special study in the spring of 2009 on this topic and there are several majors at the school who had written monographs on it early on, very interesting. so what they tried to do that spring is they studied the use of private contractors in bosnia

and that was their case study and then they have all these discussion groups about the necessity, how to work with private contractors. so that was the beginning of my research and i was very fascinated by the fact that it broke her all stereotypes. this of course has been happening for years now and there's the u.s. army contracting command that began in the fall of 2008 but in that spring there was an effort on the part of all of the majors who were there working on advanced degrees were taking their year of study. in the concern was how to work with them and to avoid miscommunications and well, you have to read the chapter.

it was a very positive effort on their part on that level and the various serious study like i said also of iraq. and what could have been done better and worse the monitoring? how can we expect better accountability? one of the reasons the international code of conduct in the swiss initiative is the move in geneva trying to establish international monitoring, one of the points that they make a similar to what was going on in 2009 would choose no government will regulate the company. it's probably never going to happen. some of the suggestions were what if we have regulatory commission? what if we had a cabinet post and there were so many private contractors in so many agencies.

what would that look like? there were discussions of that. what does it do? what does it mean in a democracy to have these companies and how do you use them for the benefit of the nation and have enough accountability to prevent misuse and the empowering of industry itself, the industry giving two powerful as happened with the companies in the 14th and 15th centuries. at any rate there were many discussions that embrace history and the monograph. what is really the think tank of the army. also as i mentioned earlier there was this discussion of efficiency and effectiveness.

their concern was that these were on-call companies. that's how they market themselves to say we are at the fedex of defense and security. so it's on-call avoiding a lot of the messy process that is involved in pulling together the troops. so their concern was that look the most successful defense strategy and history and they studied some of those too, the most successful ones were not the most efficient ones. sometimes to be effective it's a long process so they had a great concern about the on-call attraction of these companies. i mean that's one of the appeals.

david. >> i congratulate you on the book and. [inaudible] my question is this. what do you see as the industry in terms of domestic domestically and internationally? you talk about it for example in your book. what avenue do think they will be pursuing? >> yeah well i would like to repeat exactly what he said at the beginning because it was a compliment. about pulling things together, altogether in the book.

quite a challenge. his question is what do i see as the future? for the industry. many markets and a lot of money is the simple answer. and it's as i said, it's actually the way i described it in the book. this is not an ad for glasses but basically in the generals quote that i gave you earlier as complex developed worldwide, of course there will be use of these companies. there is great expertise in these companies. you can just go on the web site. you can go on some other group

meant web sites or some other web sites of the really big companies. the array of services offered is so immense and the future of the industry in this country certainly border patrol and immigration situation as a frontier for contracts, whether it's organizations contracting them or homeland security in their border patrol division. the drone industry and that's a part of the book i think you'll find rather interesting. i did in terms of all the studies. sort of a conduit for you. i have just been reading studies of interviews on it and i read many studies about the operation drones and the number of people it takes in a very labor-intensive operation. it's not the image you have,

another misconception on the road of five or six people focusing on something and pushing buttons. there are hundreds of people and so i think there is a growing involvement in the privatization of that aereo feed analysis and other parts of drones, the drone industry i mean the drone operation which going back to the military with something that one of the people i interviewed was very concerned with. actually with somebody in the marines who actually said he was concerned about personalized warfare and compared with private contractors and drones. to give her -- together is a machine operated by employee -- and i think that area is -- and maritime security.

you have to look at it in the fairway. trying to get the truth out without sensationalizing any target they get rid a compelling story. realize there are examples of success. i would say maritime security is one of them. the shipping industry debated this and the piracy and terror at sea have diminished. so that's another area. africom. i don't think the defense authorization act of 2015 would talk about the importance of monitoring private contractors. he says we have to do it differently than we have in the past. we have to analyze what happened in iraq and afghanistan.

we have to improve the situati situation. you are probably going to think of lots of things, the u.n.. the problem with the book is it's just ever-changing and evolving. the study came out a couple of months ago showing that the u.n. had increased its budget by 300% in 2009 and private security. i interviewed someone at the u.n. who said part of the reason is obvious. it's becoming so dangerous. we have to have armed security. when you read the book you can see how the parallels of the conflict and hostile environment of course has brought an expansion of markets for these companies. you can also see that like any

industry there are certain companies that are getting the most work which is interesting. i think five or six of them pulled together in one very big company including the third incarnation of blackwater. just a couple of weeks ago. so i may have to be following this topic for the rest of my life. it changes and evolves and it will be very interesting to see what happens in the weeks ahead and the role that private contractors will play. i spoke with time incorporated about how scholars have called the iraq war the first card tractors are we looking at the second contractors and what do we need to do to prepare for that? we need to ask her government in terms of transparency and better accountability and oversight.

wouldn't it be fascinating to include the companies in the contract's? there are so many contracts for so many companies but to be told something about the role of these companies in this larger picture. it seems that would just widen the scope of our participation in our nations defense and security. at any rate another question out there. did that answer your question david? you had your hand up. [inaudible]

>> the question was about the u.n. and we talked about that a little bit. there's more on that in a book by the way and in the second question about regulation within the country? [inaudible] >> no they have been addressing the issue. the u.n. is very interesting situation because there are is a group within the u.n. that has been addressing the situation and there are fabulous people who have been going to geneva to these meetings regarding it so the u.n. is involved in both recognizing their need for private security and at the same time recognizing the need for regular monitoring.

it's a u.n. working group on mercenaries. so yeah there is recognition on an international level and there certainly is recognition within the u.n.. but i think when i found out that since 2006 there have been people working on this concept of an international regulation basically. it's the international red cross. it's good government and its humanitarian lawyers, human rights first i think is involved in it and members of this industry. icas said before this is a bona fide industry and you don't want headlines about bad behavior within your industry to completely ruin the whole concept of what you do. if you are doing a good job at it and you don't want -- but

there are big problems. there are reasons there's an international group that's been working since 2006 on better monitoring. and since i'm in washington i can say and i don't think it will take away from the sales of my book but there is a page-turner, 240 page report that came out of congress the wartime contracting commission report. like i said it erases all private contractors in iraq and afghanistan for a think its from 232,011. but it's fascinating the details about the reasons for the need for better monitoring. and you see that in my book, all kinds of that in incidents that you may not have heard about.

everyone who is knowledgeable about this and working on it including representatives of the u.n. are well aware of the possibility for human rights issues, fraud waste and all the bad behavior that you see flashing in the headlines. they are also aware of the fact that this is an industry that has passed through the porthole of permanence so it must be closely monitored and it must be respected for its power and use. actually another quote from the former british army officer that i quoted earlier, i thought was really brilliant in that he said that this is the story. the evolution of this industry, the story straight out of science fiction.

their size a seat in the complex waterjet big-time. many years from now perhaps it may have to be stopped but for now it must be used and must be closely monitored. anyone taking a close look will tell you that. so that's part of the inspiration for the book is to deliver a fair analysis that shows all sides and the reality that at this point in the early 21st century what we are looking at and also be fascinated by it. it's part of military history, business history and we are looking at it to see and i will do one more quote if i can find it. very quickly from someone who used to be known as or has a

reputation for being once a mercenary and let me see if i can find it here. and that says a lot about -- this was somebody to ran a very successful company who worked in africa's notorious england. all the names are in here. you have to find the names are interviewed him for several hours a couple of years ago and the couple lives of his quotes are very revealing the interesting aspect of the industry and the fact that it is viewed by many who have been following it for years as something permanent. so that means we need to wake up to it and improve the monitori

monitoring. this is two paragraphs. alternatively alternately taunting and charming witty and somber he spoke for a long while about pms industry. quote the american company came later he said. the british were earlier. 60s, 70's come 80s, 90s and while britain's empire is part of our past bits we been doing this sort of thing for a long while. he thought the trajectory was analysis to the american road river with industry. at first they were accused of everything but they were essential as the world was changing and they in turn change the world. that is the global frontier just like -- the global frontier is

like america's wild west. the analysis makes sense. he added yet another analyses for this industry. they start off while them become part of the establishment. experimental music becoming mainstream. it's like rap. 20 years and now what's all the fuss about? the point is there have been people for the last several years and also people within the industry working on a system of guidelines and regulations. and so partly out of the perhaps cynicism that individual nations are not going to regulate them and also the fact that they have become a global wildcard. there are a couple of examples of that recently and one just very recently in the spring of

2014 when we sold billions of dollars of apache attack helicopters and a hellfire missiles to iraq and there needed to be more people in iraq in the early spring of this year to train workers and train the military on how to use those weapons. some of the companies private military and security companies were hired to do that. we didn't hire them. actually the government did so there are other instances of that. this is an international industry. it may have gotten its biggest boost from us in the war in iraq in the bonanza contracts that we don't own these companies. they don't belong to us and they are looking for markets and want to make money.

and so that's the tack that you need to get across. more transparency and a deeper understanding of it and a recognition that it's part of our system. yes. [inaudible] you have done a wonderful job. >> thank you. >> i think the difficulty you have answering the question, i think the reason you have that problem is -- and i