relationship with the united states. and from the point of view of stability in the middle east, and peace in the region, we strongly encouraged this. of course we knew that sadat was also basically autocratic ruler, but i thought of him -- i grew to think of him as a great man who contributed tremendously to the peace process in the region. and i wish we had another sadat with whom one could deal as one dealt with him. then he was succeeded by mow

mubarak. but in any one year the american president and security adviser, secretary of state, have a finite number of problems that it is possible to deal with, and to stir up the middle east when you don't know what the outcome will be, and when the outcome may be not at all a democratic -- it's happened after tahrir square, which we did support. this is a question one should reflect upon. that doesn't say that every decision was correct, but when simultaneously the united states should not be involved every, but to say, however, they should overthrow the democratic -- antidemocratic governments, i understand what you are saying. i'm not saying that america has

always acted consistently. i've laid out what i think the basic principle should be. but i've seen enough of it to know that the -- in the operation of -- about the security and survival of the united states, one has to make some allowance for the contingency and for circumstance. >> someone on this side? yes, sir. i do regret -- this is after 30 years in television, you know, i think the thought we'd come here and have all this team but we're dune to our last question or two. >> dr. kissinger, the separation of church and state is a fundamental principle in well-democratics and one can argue fueled their rise and success. yet in most troubled regions of the world it seems to be a heresy punishable by death.

do you think this is a fundamental gap, a fundamental problem that is a long-term barrier to true global world order? >> well, it is -- if -- first of all, i agree with you as a correct definition of american fundamental principles. in the islamic village, it is not possible to separate church and state because they're considered to be part of the same overriding philosophy, and even in turkey, in which they attempted to create a secular state, it is now going back to

its islamic concept. it isn't so much the case in relations with china, because china has no concept, no national concept of religion. it also has no national concept of pluralism but it is a different issue in china than it is in with respect to the muslim world or any border in which religion and the state are merged. >> let me see if we can get somebody all the way back, the very last row. yes. >> thank you very much. >> cost you $500 for derek jeter's has day.

>> want to thank his excellency for all of the wonderful things the has had to say over his career on the importance of statesmanship, and statesmanship wasn't really mentioned tonight, and i wonder and ask the question that, where can we learn how to be better statesmen? where is statesmanship being taught, anyplace in our country, that you could single out as fulfilling that role that was developed in your own mind and in you're writing over the years, particularly reflected in this book. >> i think that is a very important question. because statesmanship consists

of helping to lead your society from where it is to where it hasn't been. so, it needs a combination of courage and character, and above all, a sense for the trends of the period. and if you look at the great statesmen, they have generally had the quality -- this quality. now, in our society, it is extremely pragmatic, and considers problem-solving rather than reflection about historic revolution, as its principle objective. and secondly, two other

obstacles or two other problems we face. our electoral process is getting so complicated, and so expensive, that the leaders have to spend so much of their time on the process and on raising money and on answering questions on television shows, that it's not -- there isn't enough time to reflect about the direction of the future. if you look at prison, in the 19th century, they had a succession of prime ministers. for almost a century. all of whom, whatever differences they had, had some

basic convictions about the role of britain, the actions britain should take, and the reason for it was that they came from -- they lived in an environment in which these values were sort of taken for granted. and therefore provided a basis for creative thinking. i'm very worried and i expressed that in this book, about the impact of the way history is taught and conceived and the ability to develop these qualities. >> you know what occurred to me? if you would try to go to

pakistan and through to china with today's technology, somebody would have taken a picture of you and tweeted it out and the whole secret would have been blown before you got to beijing. think about that. it's a different world. we have time for a couple more questions? no? we're done? okay. look, i'm sorry, folks. but -- applause. >> can we thank dr. kissinger? [applause]

>> good evening. thank you so much for coming. hello. my name is sarah bolin and i'm the events coordinator here. in behalf of our entire staff i'm so happy to welcome you to kramer's tonight for one of our first events in our event season. we got start erred earlier in september, and i hope if you haven't already you'll take a moment and pick up one of our events calendars and if you haven't already, please follow us on facebook, on twitter, and sign up for our e-mail newsletter. so thank you again so much for coming. i'm really pleased to welcome you, and i'm especially pleased to welcome ann hagadorn for her new book "the is are invisible soldiers" talking about privatization of national

security and how it operates and where it's heading and the journalist has been a staff writer at the "wall street journal" and has taught writhing at northwestern and columbia. her previous books are wild ride, ransom, beyond the river, and savage peace. please join me in welcoming her to kramer books. [applause] >> thank you, sarah, great to be here. and especially great to be here because i'm honored by the presence of another writer on this topic, david eisenberg, who is in the front row, and some familiar faces who people i've known for a long time who have come to this event. "invisible soldiers" is the story of the privatization of defense and security.

it's narrative nonfiction book that is a trajectory, telling the story from the mercenary renaissance of the second half of the 20th century, into the age of drones. it's basically the story of the rise of a new industry. an industry of military and security companies. some refer to this as the corporate evolution of the mercenary trade buts a i've been saying on the road, the word "mercenary" is loaded and i try from the very beginning to erase it from the discussion because a mercenary really has to be defined as an individual, a hired gun, it conjures the rather unsavory image involved in -- of old world mercenaries involved in post colonial, neocolonial conflicts and it's not that they don't exist anymore, but to call these

companies and this industry that i'm telling you about, that you'll read about, mercenaries is also misleading because basically today's version is fundamentally different. completely different. and the critical factor, of course, is that these -- is the modern corporate business form. these companies are hire, hire,- they trade and compete internationally and recruit internationally, they link to outside financial holdings, and provide a vast range of services in many markets worldwide. so oning there that i've learned while i've been on the road is

there are many misconceptions, and one of course is that these companies are just about u.s. contracts, they're just about iraq, or they're just about blackwater or some people know of them only through headlines about scandals. there are many misconceptions and we'll get to a few discussions on that later. but one thing that you must realize is that this is an industry that is evolving right before our eyes and has been for the last 25 to 30 years. ...

to the new markets and the need in iraq. we have a boost >> >> then we go forward to now where we could be facing what some people call the psychic contractors more. then as i said what we're watching and what i want my readers to be fascinated by as i have been the last couple years, is the evolution of this industry

and the vast array of services that companies offer from the logistic support to halliburton and a rack to air transport and intelligence analysis militia training training, maintenance and weapons training and police trading. and of course, moving into security and many markets every continent the companies have the presence. and they serve as brokers because some focus on armed

security some call them the department stores to have a wide range of services so whatever threatens development on the global front here forever the governments are viewed or incapable to steady conflict that is the markets for these companies and more specifically with contingency operations and long after traditional troops they also are involved in counter terrorism strategy border

patrol security and drone operation and cybersecurity and analysis. there are other markets in other countries and other nations and with a multinational company for armed security for development. and the shipping industry the biggest market that is a fascinating story in and of itself but one of the challenges of the book is each of these areas i could have written a single book. just this story of the

development of maritime security but the invisible soldier is a nonfiction book to you just show user through a trajectory exactly how all this happened and hopefully pass on the fascination and the interest thigh have given to u.s. the general reader because this is a relatively new industry it is part of the world and a worldwide presence so i moved through that

trajectory to london as were one journalist said to a understand the origins you have to go to london first but it is fascinating in that way because of those excellent companies in that arena it began in england. also a geneva right introduce you to fascinating individuals who have been working since 2006 on the switch initiative which is the international effort to monitor for now.

the name of that chapter's called conquering chaos. but she thinks since 2006 there have been groups meeting in geneva to work on a process that will more closely monitor the industry is exciting. itt to kansas to the college at fort leavenworth were i spent some time interviewing people in the military because i want the military perspective and that is where i've learnt the most interesting aspect of the debate the difference between efficiency and effectiveness.

if i get into that i am here for the next two hours but then i take you to congress and several congressional hearings and people have been trying for greater accountability and take you to mexico with security contractors being trained people in the military and congress that has been involved including some of the journalist but what i

tried to do is pull together the strands of this story to show you the components of the abolition of the industry to put a human face on the component. i'll also take you to this story of u.s. special forces operative that was shot by a private military contractor in baghdad. so i introduced you choose several companies but there is a great deal of interest to the people want to know they want to go beyond the

headlines andhat this industry is about. and to what degree of our defense and security is a part of it? very often there is an image from my pulling together the details that have been great but i don't want in-- sensationalizing. i want to tell a compelling story about something that is part of our history and part of the world history and is part of the privatization the trend of evolution into various

arenas and for you to see by following that industry and understanding the shift in the conduct of war through the military missions their security operations the conceded greater use for example, in africom u.s. authorization act had attached to with for the need for greater monitoring for private contractors is something that will continue evolving and growing. when it shows in -- a shift in the conduct of war but by some accounts the beginning

of the fading of the nation states these are international companies that shows the operation that operate in a borderless business environment. it is a non-partisan book and it is a fair analysis and cost of introducing contractors. so part of the misconception is they are all bad. when you read the book you will see their several congressional hearings included but one was 2011 to focus on the exploitation of contractors. some of the problems with

their health care, food, lodging in certain situations. because what you have in this century or all nations with a contract, their lairs of subcontracts purpose of the subcontractors word largely in the congressional hearing which was fascinating. one of the big questions on the road something i was asking all from my research and writing which was of grave concern and should be to all of us. why should we care? that is a really big question some of these

companies like i said have been fair there:the bad companies were the headline for that bad behavior working on the international code of conduct is a bonafide industry. should why should we care is a question in there lies the answer. why should a care? as to be appear for another hour but for several reasons i tried to use summarize the put summer fun of a microphone for 20 minutes so figure out had to figure out

the most important details and to talk about seven questions the on the road the eyecare the most because it does show the difference. the reason we need to care is partly because to know the impact of four we need to have more accountability as he said internationally to have more transparency with the role of private contractors going forward what they will be because we

need to know the defense and security of our nation or neighborhood. and a few trains them? what company are they working for to learn more detail as the contracting condition after three years of study in their report. with reliance on contractors that was then a contingency operations. we cannot just look the other way to say you do defense and security. and very passionate people in the military.

behalf to feel connected at the very amazed they need to know who's doing it. one reader told the casualty of the iraq war, we were not told the contractor casualty's between 2009 and spring of 2011, a contractor casualties exceeded traditional military. we need to know that. we need to know it because i could give you many statistics but that is the only way as citizens we can understand the full impact of war. we have to know that in order to work with policy makers and congressman and

women to make smart decisions with the policies of our country. there is also the of one in detail about the number of the mia when we left iraq. there were 82011 but seven of those are private contractors. some of them were not from the united states because you have to look at the breakdown for private security but one was traditional military. and that is another detail.

but in the flow of the book i am hoping you will become as interested as i am in this industry, the financial level, the expansion, the history, the origin that many markets and many services and some of the issues of the contractors themselves. and some of the statistics are impossible you cannot embrace the entire industry to say what the revenue numbers are or how many people its employees. so they are working on that. but at any rate i want to read a couple of quotations

from the people i interviewed and then we will move on to questions. i had an editor years ago said never fall in love with your own riding. so i should be reading from others he said don't fall on the of with the quotations of your sources. [laughter] there are several here. one of them actually let's do a quote from the very beginning he says before a

congressional hearing and it gives a sense that was his statement about u.s. government of dependents he said think back to the alien series about it is indescribable alien creature the humans it outside bet on the inside wrapped around every organ and so intwined they cannot be excised. the human would die without it. the government would collapse. and then just in the spring of 2014 he made the comment

we cannot go to war the contracts and cannot go to peace without contractors. and a former british army officer director of the company exceptionally bright individual and very deeply involved in the industry for a long time one of his quotations was the military and security companies will evolve into multinational functional firms so government corporation can go to them a single servers. and get used to relying on them. and now it will be integrated so future generations will not know the difference. traditional military will become smaller and smaller

and the industry will continue to grow. and there was one from a general that has been very knowledgeable on the topic and reading and informing himself of this rate and the action in iraq. the nation's state had this low ability to act to to political unreality we need to avoid the complexity of government. that nothing more than that private military systems of international security that have been in place a long time again beginning to fall apart with more anarchy

worldwide as these companies offer themselves as the solution. and i really want to to follow that up with a less known quotation by eisenhower. we although we must guard against influence with eisenhower january 1961. if i had more time i would go into more detail and to see their response of the evolution. one of the comments that you never read about is the part

of the wording in 1961 continuing to be there was a temptation to feel a spectacular action could become the miraculously ocean tell me more minutes to write have? okay. there are so many colorful people in the book but actually i think i will put aside my humility and read a couple paragraphs, the first two paragraphs and then from a chapter also to the trade

association so first i will do one the book starts the prologue to introduce the general reader then it is in three parts tranthree shun to the industry and to the reaction and then expansion is a you get a sense of all markets and the vast services provided by companies.

but what the boy would remember most was issues he was forced to wear them for nearly five hours they seemed ordinary but the heels rat the front it was the invention of the human smugglers to help them escape from iraq. the idea is footprints were detected the path to appear to be reversed although he wanted to go home but stopped then the backward footprints would define the trail and expose the of families applied to.

and as he was forced to leave iraq in april is another way can to said there would be going on and venture. for the first time he felt sudden change coursing through cam. first was 11 months before where we heard a rush of counting and there was a dreamlike and major was them coming home. and then it so fighting for saddam hussein's but again you hear that loud as his mother watched their with dragway the father who was suspected to be trade them and wanted more information.

in the days and months that followed his father's disappearance when his teacher turned against him but now he began with the brutal ritual to wash his hands than with his back. this was information that could lead to the teachers promotion. but the boy insisted he knew nothing and that was the truth we just knew she hated saddam hussein. now lets a there is a

chapter called and now the debate. i interviewed four people here in washington and with the hope that some day they will participate in a public discourse on the topic. with sub contractors and transparency. so it begins with the head of the trade association. and full speed ahead was the rallying cry from the battle of mobile bay. and in 2012 the message fleshy across at the headquarters of the international stability operation in washington.

from the office on the eighth floor had the clear view of the square that featured the statue of an admiral. and he was a first career admiral and vice admiral and admiral so looking for comparable pirates they may have known as much about ferric it as much as others that he was equally passionate to clarify a the mission in capabilities. but not too much he was described of a secret multibillion-dollar business

i could keep reading. in case my editor told me not to fall in love with my own riding so we will turn it over to you. and now i will take questions. thank you very much. [applause] select i met john gardner at kramers books. right here.

and where does the

monitoring come from? how can we expect better accountability? one of the reasons that international code of conduct to establish international monitoring one of the points they make is similar to what was going on in 2009 that no government would complete the regulate these companies it will probably never have been what if we had a regulatory commission or a cabinet? there's so many private contracts and agencies. what does it mean in day democracy and have used them

for the benefit of the nation to have enough accountability and to prevent misuse the disempowering of the industry. and getting too powerful but any rate there were many discussions that embraced history thing coming out what is the think tank of the army in this discussion of the efficiency and effectiveness because of the concern there on call companies to say we are fedex of security.

it is the most acceptable defense strategy in history. but the most successful not the less efficient. sometimes to be effective is a long process of they had grave concerns about the on call portion but that sort of answers your question.

>> speesix but what about the drums for example? and around the globe. >> it was a compliment his question is for the future of the industry.

and the simple answer is the market with a lot of money. and the way that is described in the book it is not an ad for glasses but as conflicts develop there is great expertise in these companies. you should go to the recruitment web site of the really big companies. but the array of services offered so the future of the industry and this country certainly, border patrol the

immigration and situation whether organization and contrasting them or border patrol. the drone industry. and that is up part of the of book you will find interesting with the studies as a conduit. and the number of people that is a labor intensive operation was another misconception with five doors six people pushing buttons. and so i think there is a

growing involvement in the privatization of that analysis and other parts of the drums industry and the operation which going back to the military was the people i interviewed was someone that was concerned about the personalized warfare and when paired to gather there to there'd by a conflict and you have to look at this and to trying to get the truth out but with up sensationalizing any aspect but making a compelling story. para realists there are

examples of success. and maritime security is one of them. the shipping industry debated this and a the piracy and the terror at sea have diminished. so that is another area and africom. we don't think the defense authorization act would talk about the importance to monitor private contractors. but it says we have to do it differently than we have been the past. we have to improve the situation.

the problem is it is ever evolving and changing my steady care not a couple weeks ago that the budget had increased by a 20%? >> this year reformer i go to the un is because he is so dangerous. [laughter] >> when you read that book you care and see have the of parallels are addressed hist bets with the incarnation

just a couple weeks ago, and will be interest gain in with nate teach their time but not how to call the iraq war with those first contractors are we looking at the second contractors? what do we need to do to prepare. >> it would not be that the

role of the company in the ledger panera in this a nice bet because of bridges bashan and our nation's defense. but we have another question. >>. >> therein is that in the

book by the way says that we would have the bill we now have an interesting. >> this runs fed this jesus to go to geneva. >>.

>> this is a bonafide industry about bad behavior with your industry touche completely but in 2006 that the chair must charming.

that what time is the contract commissioning report? >> it embraces all in iraq and afghanistan from 2011 previously. but it is fascinating the detail about the reasons for the need and you see that in my book. the incident that you may not have heard about. everyone who's is knowledgeable but all that

bad behavior, there are also wearing --. >> but also respected for its power and use. and another quotation from the former british army insignia that they could later in the year was that he said this is the story of ocean of this industry stayed out of the city. now we have a new process that will look good than 30 years from now it may have to be stopped but for now it must be used than the closely both the that back.

bedded this point in the early age and defers history is. >> it is a part of military and business history. and i will do one more quotation if i can find it. very quickly from someone who was known as far had the reputation to be a mercenary. and let me see if i can find this. it says a lot this was

somebody who runs a very successful company in worked in africa and to the jury is in english and. all names are in here so you have to find it -- by the book but i interviewed than for several hours a couple blocks from here and some of his are very revealing with the interesting aspect with the fact it is viewed by many to have followed it for years as something permanent so we need to wake up to it and improve the monitoring. he says alternative the