state still looking for jobs. as a student at the university of georgia, i worry about a job after graduation. while your ads parade of georgia being the number one state to do business, it is hard to ignore georgia also leads the nation in its rate of unemployment. it is safe to say you inherited a failing economy, and so did the president and 49 other governors. why isn't georgia under your leadership lacking behind -- lagging behind the rest of the nation in its rate of unemployment? ..

we have focused on job creation. we eliminated the sales tax on energy so manufacturers could grow. we have seen macro from the caterpillar plant to baxter, which is making a $1 billion investment. he said that leads it will be the largest single capital investment in the states history since ikea came in 2006. job creation is important for those in college. >> that question was asked specifically. >> this question is for him. today for the first time in state history, voters in georgia

cast ballots on a sunday. many will do so next sunday. mr. deal come you would be open to legislation that would close down sunday voting. >> the voting policies of our stake in the uniform. you should not have one account a benefit voting patterns from different counties. that is what the general assembly look. if all counties are allowed to buy voting, that is fine with me. as my wife sandra says, republicans can vote on sundays, too, just as long as they go to church verse. we will listen to the general assembly and see the results of sunday voting and what effect it has had on voter turnout. all of us won as many people possible who are registered and qualified to turnout and vote and i think we should do whatever is important in order to turnout the voters. on that now, i encourage everyone watching at home come to be sure you either early vote or vote on november 4th. >> moderator: okay,.

carter: we are at historically low rates of voting. the majority of the people are dissatisfied with the two major parties. you have a reason to go vote this year. don't stay at home because then you're acquiescing that government is okay and all by. sitting at home is not a protest. you need to vote and we went to make it easy for people to register, but we block ballot voters. we wanted trilby come again and see that your vote counted and can be recounted if it has to be. our current electronic regimes cannot provide that record. we need to have a printed written record also if every person's vote so if we need to be can go back and verified or some of the current electronic types of verification we have for monetary transactions. these verifications not exist with their electronic voting machines and it is a shame that we don't have such anonymous

system. >> moderator: okay, jason carter. carter: i am glad senator deal has changed his mind. as we know, and they come in the state that wants to vote on sunday is allowed to do so. i think it's fantastic. it helps people get engaged and certainly helps working people get to the polls because they don't have to take time off jobs or find childcare and election day. i've always been in favor of expanding the right to vote, ensuring that we have a fair system that the count every vote in the registers every voter that is qualified and ensures every registered voter is permitted to cast their ballot. i think make it as convenient as possible helps us all. >> moderator: already. we have time for one more question from our panelists. this question is either directed to one candidate for 60 seconds in reply for all the candidates which will get 3030 seconds. sandra, you get the last

question. >> this is directed to mr. diehl, that the other can chime in. when the legislature passed its gun legislation allowing firearm holders a provision dealing with churches that operate in schools was left out. do you support allowing guns in churches on sundays for school is held during the week as long as the churches often? >> moderator: we are going to give everyone 30 seconds to reply. we are still on the clock you will start with you, mr. diehl. and then mr. carter and then mr. hahn. deal: i believe the beauty that past was we gave churches for choice. that is always a better option rather than the state dictating to them. i trust congregations and the leaders of the church is to make those kinds of judgment calls. i think we have given them that flexibility and i feel assured they will exercise it appropriately. >> moderator: mr. carter.

carter: i agree with governor deal that is important to give local communities and congregations a choice in this matter. i thought very hard with respect to this bill and brought people together from both sides of the aisle to ensure the choice to churches were given was a real one and that is the kind of leadership i provide. are you people together and difficult issues that are polarizing in the state. >> moderator: all right. mr. hunt. hunt: i am a strong constitutionalist and i support gun rights, but also the rights of private landowners, whether individual or organizations. each entity should determine what is allowed on the property or not. government should be saying you have to be a little love effectivity under property. it is your property. you get to decide. government shouldn't say you can't do this on your property unless it's hurting other people in surrounding properties. that is liberty. >> moderator: that is all the time we have for questions. the candidates now have 60

seconds for a closing statement. our branded selection, jason carter makes the first closing statement. mr. carter. carter: thank you so much for spending her time watching this debate tonight. i believe this state has everything it used to be an absolute powerhouse. if we put our minds to it in the state, if we educate and invest in them, open the doors to technical colleges to give people skills they need. if we invest and pay attention to the middle class and to the small businesses at this day, we will have the ability to have a dynamic growing forward-looking economy innovates coming that expands for the future. right now we are not getting that economy. right now people get left behind in our education system is languishing. we can if we put our minds to a 60. i ask for your vote. i ask for your vote for the future of this day. i would be honored to serve as your governor.

>> moderator: nathan deal. deal: thank you for listing today. i'm honored to have served as your governor for the last four years and ask for your vote to do so for another four years. we put in place many reforms that are bringing our state over. we are growing jobs at a faster rate than the national growth average for country and we are going to continue to see that growth. we put money in our k-12 system, our technical colleges and colleges and universities and we did so because our policies of job growth were working and our revenue is growing. we've also made reforms in our criminal justice system in the something we haven't had a chance to talk about tonight. this truly revolutionary. we already lead the country in terms of drug courts that we been recognized as such. we are saving millions of dollars and also saving lives. basing our african-american population in a prison system dropped by about 20%. we are going to break the cycle of crime by educating those who have no skills so that when they get out they will not commit

crimes again. thank you. >> moderator: mr. hunt. hunt: david pennington and others have endorsed me because i'm the only one double cut taxes and new tort reform. i'm the one that will bring cost-effective solutions in freedom and goodness for all of us. it is a very, very night and day choice here. i am very different. i am a small business man, phd in engineering. i won about 50 patents and i want to put back to work for you. i want to work for you the people, bring government back to you the people in that way we can have a better way forward. i have 1% or less that the money they do. you're going to see lots by then. we have the views of who they've been supported by. the special interest groups that pay for the tens of millions of ads. you have to come if you want to support me, talk to other people. if you vote for me, that's

great. but i'm asking you to get out and tell other people to hunt for hot on the ballot. >> moderator: thank you so much. thank you for a panelists at a panel of distinguished journalists. we would also like to think the atlanta press club for arranging this debate. remember, the election is on tuesday, november 4th. early voting has begun and we urge you to cast your ballot and make sure that your vote is counted. the gun debate series is made possible by donations from our charles louden foundation. i am brenda wood. thank you for joining us. have a good evening, everyone.

>> i am jeanne shaheen and i approve this message. >> scott rounds has >> i'm pro-choice. >> but that is not how we does. scott brown sponsored a bill so employers could deny women insurance coverage for birth control. >> i can play scott brown limits access to birth control. >> round forces remained to look at photographs of developing fetuses. no wonder anti-choice groups in massachusetts indoor scott

brown. >> i don't try scott brown. >> you may seem senator shaheen is running an ad calling into question my support for women's health care. i want you to know the facts. i am pro-choice. i support planned parenthood in nightly women should have access to contraception. after six years of voting with president obama, senator shaheen has resorted to a smear campaign to distract voters from their record. senator shaheen knows better. the people of new hampshire deserve better. i am scott brown and i approve this message. >> i am jeanne shaheen and i approve this message. >> the big oil companies are the most profitable on the planet. scott brown voted to give them more than $20 billion in taxpayer subsidies. >> this guy is not for us. >> big oil scott brown dozens of dollars within days it is though. >> scott brown doesn't care about and share. >> and now spending millions to get them back to washington. >> scott brown is that for scott

brown and no one else. not new hampshire, no way. >> hey, i know what you're thinking. another ad. but hear me out. senator jeanne shaheen says she does to first, but she does with obama 99% of the time. 99%. that is for more spending, more debt. obamacare, come on. we have to put up with obama for two more years, but we can fire shaheen now. let's fire jeanne shaheen. okay, here's your video. >> contractures senate debate between democratic jeanne shaheen and republican scott brown is live tonight on c-span at 8:00 p.m. eastern.

>> in montana, republican congressman steve daines is running against someone for an open u.s. senate seat. current senator john walsh is not running her reelection after

allegations were made against him. senator walsh was appointed to defeat earlier this year after senator max baucus step down. this debate is courtesy of montana television network, the billings gazette and yellowstone public radio. >> from nt hand, the montana television network in partnership with montana pbs. this is campaign 2014, the senate debate. ♪ >> made possible thanks to support from the greater montana foundation. the greater montana foundation founded by montana broadcasting pioneer, greeny supports communications on issues, friends and values of importance to him montanans. ♪ >> moderator: we welcome you to debate night here on the montana television network. we've upgraded the campus at msu

billings, teacher of theater is a venue tonight as we present the only televised debate of the montana u.s. senate campaign here in 2014. i am jay cohen, your moderator for the evening. provides about komar audience tonight along with the people tuning in and the montana television network station across montana. we are also going nationwide on c-span two on c-span two come asleep at welcome to watching across the country tonight. people listening into this debate on statewide radio with yellowstone public radio a long statewide with friends at the northern news network. we would like to acknowledge our four sponsors tonight before we began. first, msu billings with this facility here. one of our primary sponsors when it are other partner at the billings gazette and the montana television note her. all for and it is joining forces to bring you this televised debate. a special thank you to the greater montana foundation for all of their support.

just a few housekeeping items to mention. our format tonight we have a new candidate questioned by our panel of three journalists. no opening statements today. the first candidate will get 60 seconds to answer the question. the other candidate will have 30 seconds to rebut and both candidates will have another 30 seconds to rebut. we hope to have a lively discussion. again, we are asking are obvious locally to hold their applause to the very young. we've covered cell phones and covered cell phones and not his scene or booing or plotting during the debate to give us more time to cover more questions. with little to do, let's meet the candidates. we all agree the senate race in montana has everything this year except for one game. it has not had a debate, he televised debate. we are hoping we are here tonight to throw the void. first off, let's meet democrat commander curtis, a native billings. pirner has been. a man is a math teacher and she

was elected to the house of representatives in 2012. she is a total product of the montana university system. amanda has a degree in biology from montana tech. she got her teaching certificate from u. of western and is working on her masters degree at the university of lantana. she and her has been and she is a high school teacher who also taught at the central and also helena middle-school. middle-school. thanks for being here. appreciate it. curtis: thanks very much for having me. [cheers and applause] >> moderator: also tonight steve daines. he was raised in bozeman and is a product of the montana university system. graduated from montana university state in chemical engineering. he spent 13 years working for procter & gamble and the work of the famous construction business for a while and a 2000 was elected as vice president for right now technologies out of bozeman. he was a lack into the u.s. house in the november 2012

election. he and his wife cindy have four children. good to see you tonight. daines: thank you. appreciate it. [applause] >> moderator:.tonight the top job is up to her three panelists. first on the left-hand side we have liked anything to come a friend of mine. mike is a familiar byline for most montanans reading newspapers across the state. past nine years mike has worked with over the newspaper bureau covering the state house and government for some 22 years with the ap and the tribune. big welcome to my tennessean. good to see you tonight, mike. [applause] also tonight the news director of yellowstone public radio, jackie yamanaka. she's been covering politics for 28 years. her first administration she covered with ted schwinn did back in the mid-80s. jackie, good to see you tonight.

i know you have a whole bunch of good questions for panelists. [applause] last but certainly not least, stay political reporter at the montana television network, sanjay tonawanda. he's also worked in the past for the helena independent record in the great ulster beard. those are the panelists tonight. thank you very much. [applause] that will be enough for the applause. by the first question is the moderator. we did flip a coin and amanda, you get the chance to answer the first question. our question is this. isis has been identified as the biggest threat across the world. my question is deeply president obama's response to the isis thread is adequate? and if so -- if not, perhaps when would you be willing to put ground troops on the ground. to deal with the threat. curtis: isis is a terrible group

with absolutely no respect for human life in america absolutely has a role to play in ending the isis. but we cannot be the policeman of the world. we need to have a serious conversation about how much this is going to cost and where the money is going to come from. >> moderator: steve, single question. do you believe the president's response has been adequate in which you some point be willing to put boots on the ground? daines: i response is a lack of strategy. we need to be on the same page moving forward. the isis thread is not going to be in the near term. 9/11 was 13 years ago. this will effect generations potentially. we need to address with a long-term strategy. i did not support putting, troops on the ground. neither strategy with energy security. we need to be viewed leading producers of the world looks to us for energy instead of the middle east.

number two, secure our borders to ensure we don't have isis. number three, we need to ensure coalition of middle east allies and support in the united states in dealing with the serious threat. >> moderator: quick follow-up, and amanda, about boots on the ground. if this were moves forward, how should they pay for this war? curtis: you know, i also do not agree with putting boots on the ground. it is up to the folks in that region to step up to the plate and contain isis and helpless in and helpless and isis and hopeless cynic in them go away. we see politicians kick the can down the road and having a conversation, making sure that we know exactly how much is going to cost and who is going to pay for because that should be a shared cost among all of the folks who feel the threat from isis. >> moderator: steve, two wars on the credit card already. how were going to pay for this? daines: we're spending $2 billion a day on oil revenues.

we cannot afford to not stop this threat. if you're ever 9/11, when the economy froze. the cost of the economy doing nothing will be far greater than what it will take care to combat the force and ensure we secure the homeland not only for this generation, but our children are in children. >> moderator: all right. first question from our panelist goes to jackie yamanaka. jackie come your question. >> i suppose i'm more formal. commerce than daines, one year ago the congress shut down the government. with both the house and the senate after the midterm election, would you again support a shut down if you get into a budget stalemate either with the president or fellow republicans? daines: washington is broken. it takes two parties to negotiate a deal. i can say the president was not willing to come to the table and engage the congress. congress is saying for a couple

things. want to ensure the harmful effects of obamacare. we give individual the same privileges the president has given large business and unions. so it takes two to fork that out. it was a failure. during the government shutdown, refuse to take by salary. i donated to the big sky on her flight. in the real world when you go to a business you're held accountable for that and that's why congress is to be held accountable for it and it's a failure of the system and i didn't believe it was right to take a salary during that time. >> moderator: amanda, your response. curtis: the government shutdown absolutely was a failure. congressman daines has a very clear about it record. that is one of the reasons i agreed to get into this nomination. he voted for the government shut down the cost of state of montana millions of dollars and hurt montana's small businesses. and he is so out of touch with the way the rest of us live in this state that he can afford to

go without his congressional pay when most montana families cannot relate to that. >> moderator: congressmen. daines: i can tell you what, we worked hard during that period of time to protect montana's from the harmful effects of the shut down. i was a failure of washington d.c. on october 16th both majorities vote to stop the shutdown and move forward with the government again. the failure of government and that is why it never happens again. i can tell you something else, we just had the stalemate again on the 30th of september. we had rational minds come together to pass through the continuous solution at september 30th and avoided another shutdown. curtis: i would remind everyone that the shutdown did affect men tannins. it affected all seven of our reservations because there has not been any plans in place for those governments in what was going to happen to them during the government shutdown. >> moderator: jackie,

follow-up? >> many republicans signed the no new taxes pledge. i am asking you, would you vote for a federal shut down again? daines: and we don't need to have a shutdown. we need to both sides coming to the table into an agreement. this was the first president in our history was not willing to sit down with congress to negotiate an increase of the debt ceiling. since 2011 president clinton had done it, president reagan had done it, president bush had done it. this is a president unique in history that refuse to sit with congress to negotiate a deal. that is the way you work in politics. you need to have two parties willing to sit down, come together on the find a solution in her foreword. >> moderator: amanda, one final point. curtis: but i didn't hear us know i would not vote for a government shutdown. now i would not vote for a government shutdown because they cost our state millions of

dollars and hurts montana businesses, hurts our native american reservations. and the comments about compromise and working together exact right and that is why it is important to not spend the most extreme congressman fontana has ever had in its history back to d.c. as their senator. >> moderator: next question goes to mike denniston tiered >> are deep in come of representative curtis. you said you supported the affordable correct and it's helped a lot of people get health insurance. what about the vast majority of people who are ready have insurance who didn't get subsidies to buy a? they are paying for it at the few discernible benefits. why should they support it? curtis: i was just at the bobcat tailgate the other day and i ran into the physician who has been practicing medicine for 30 years. he said it is really nice to meet you. don't repeal the aca. he said he had a preexisting

condition that made him as a health care provider uninsurable you know, i know that the aca is not perfect. i've traveled over 8000 miles across the state listening to montanans who are experiencing problems with delay of care and the cost of their insurance. so i am just saying that i am willing to work with both sides of the i/o to fix these issues and make this bill work better for everyone. i actually have the experience of having my health care plan rising cost and so i am feeling that myself. >> moderator: steve, your rebuttal. daines: i will stand with the people of montana. i am not going to stand with president obama. as i've traveled around the state, every one of montana's 56 counties, montanans overall don't like obamacare. they want it repealed. we do not want to see if washington d.c. led solution.

adc led solution doesn't solve the problem. it creates more problems. remember what president obama said? if you like your health insurance plan, you can keep it. tell that to tens of thousands of montanans, the seniors losing their coverage and just got letters in the last two weeks. >> moderator: mike, geo-follow-up? >> no. >> moderator: amanda. curtis: i am so thankful president to bomb is not on the ballot in the state of montana. the people that are on the ballot are myself and who truly is one of us and understands these issues of rising health care costs and the most extreme congressmen we have ever had who instead of working to find a solution has thrown a tantrum and voted over 40 times to repeal something that is absolutely saving lives for working families in montana. >> moderator: sans jay, you are next up. >> for congressman daines again

on obamacare, you want to rip you the affordable care act. you are replacing it with a plague tort reform, health savings account, across state lines. but for people who can't afford health insurance now and haven't been able to, do you think those things will really help them get health insurance? ..

at the end of the i do want to have a one size fits all solution that might work for california, new york. we need a solution that works for montana. living month-to-month on fixed income, hard-working middle-class montanans that don't want to see an obama senate solution in d.c. they what's your solution and writer in montana. >> moderator: amanda. curtis: we have unfortunately seen one size fits all solutions from congressman daines. is voted on tea party lines almost 90% of the time and that vote to repeal the aca was one of those. the fact of the matter is that the aca provided for our state to expand medicaid which would've provided health insurance to the most vulnerable of our citizens.

our legislature dropped the ball on that and i would like to see us continue to improve the aca, and montana's list is the next legislature expand medicaid for all of our citizens. >> moderator: steve. daines: presidio just released -- the problem the aca was trying to solve was ensuring that the poor, the disabled, those who can't afford health care are getting coverage. the congressional budget office's own forecast for 2016 cents 31 might americans will still not have health care coverage after the aca is a limit. nancy pelosi sold health care system as a $950 billion budget. the latest estimates suggest it will now be $1.8 trillion spent and will have 31 million americans uninsured. this is after the aca is implanted. >> moderator: go ahead. curtis: i'm a math teacher and have to step in and say when you look at the top savings of

preventing citizens from having their initial point of contact with the health care system be the emergency room, the amount of money that is saved by this country in the long run is astronomical. that's a much more realistic way to look at the numbers. daines: just updated last week, the aca now at $130 billion to our debt. $1.28 trillion, 38 million americans a nature and will raise the deficit 131 billion don't. take a look at that report that you should the latest trend to forecast. >> moderator: santa, a follow-up? >> about the 31 million unable still unable to afford health insurance. if they can't afford health insurance, can they afford health savings accounts? will they benefit from tax deductions? daines: we need to them fall

desperate solve this problem of this table. states like indiana, utah are moving forward with programs and plans that will be unique to that state. unique to that states needs. think about montana. what a resident might need will be very different than someone living in bozeman or billings. we need to come up with a state focused solution. a great big iraq is in washington is not the answer to look with a v-8 is doing when it took over. look at the indian health services but when the federal takes over system, it becomes very expensive and the biggest problem is the poor, the disabled and elderly are not going to get the care they need. >> moderator: amanda, your follow-up. curtis: i would just ask anyone who is voted to repeal the aca to try to explain that to my mom who has not had health insurance for 31 years, but now is access to preventive care and help paying for prescriptions. or try to explain it to my new

friends i met the other day who as a health care professional for the first time is considered enjoyable. >> moderator: moving along. jackie, it's your turn. >> because the need for roads, police, sewer and water systems is immediate and immense, would you support the return of their marks? norge congressional order on how to spend money to pay for these projects? curtis: and talking about eastern montana i think it's really important for us to remember that our state has given out of state corporations were making millions of dollars off of our natural resources and 18 months tax holiday. when you look at paying for roads and bridges and schools and police officers, perhaps we should be taxing in the first 18 months instead of letting and out of state company come in and

read as many natural resources as again and then move onto the next well before ever have to pay any taxes. >> moderator: congressman daines. daines: know. i don't support their marks. the reason, it was abused the use of what happened in washington, d.c. i didn't have a great politics. i career in business. the problem with their marks is yet members of congress are using that to cut deals to get special privilege and so forth at the expense of the taxpayer. they're using to pad their own success at the expense of the american people. here's how we before. i soboba transportation transpod infrastructure committee in the house and we can work through prioritizing our projects working with the administration, we can do that without having their marks. >> moderator: amanda, do you have a rebuttal? curtis: i am also against earmarks, and we should not send our congressmen back to d.c. to be in the senate who has

supported incentivizing corporations to ship jobs overseas and corporate tax loopholes. talk about having a special deal. >> moderator: steve. daines: the most important thing to do know is grow the economy. as ichat with citizens across montana, they want to see better paying jobs, more good high-paying jobs and less government. nearly 50% of the graduates from university system are either underemployed or unemployed. that is when the biggest challenges we face and why when you talk to montanans what this is they don't want to travel out of state to visit the grand kids. i want to see opportunities for their children so they can stay in montana, and to get our children here, raised in here and then we export them because there aren't enough good high paying jobs in montana time for my question from the mike dennison. >> good evening, congressman daines. you say abortion should be illegal in those cases. i believe you also oppose government funding for planned parenthood want and clinics that

provide some service for vote income men and women. why are these goals good for montana? why are they the right thing to do? daines: it's important we provide contraception for women. they can easily -- make it easily accessible. it's important we have a respect for life. we are a nation that has a great respect for life. think about if a soldier is left on the battlefield, we will risk the lives of 20 navy seals to go rescue but one life. think about our declaration of independence says these are certain unalienable rights. among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. it is so important we stand for life, we stand with those who are disabled, those who are elderly, and the unborn. they are the most vulnerable. they have no voice in our society and that is why i will stand for life for those who are most vulnerable in our society. >> moderator: amanda. curtis: the truth is that

congressman daines sponsored a bill that experts agree with dan most common forms of contraceptives. you know, when i was 16 and had my first car and my first job, i also use planned parenthood to access health care. i was a very independent young woman and have been making those decisions for myself for a lot of years now, and i don't know if you notice that there's only one woman standing on the stage tonight. only one woman candidate for the senate, and women can absolutely trust me to trust them. >> moderator: congressman daines. daines: i'm a father of four children. we have two sons and two daughters. it's important to me as a father to make sure that someday my daughter's will have access to contraception when they needed. i think it's a very, very

important that we stand to ensure that the women across this country have full access to contraception. we also need to make sure that we stand up and respect the first amendment which is there's an issue of freedom of religion there as well. that's why it's so important we stand for women and ensure they have access to contraception. curtis: i would just up and say what congressman daines has just said in mentioning the first amendment is he is reminding all of us that he supports the hobby lobby decision that says a corporation can make my health care decisions for me. and as a woman senator, i absolutely disagree with that. >> moderator: mike dennison, do you have a follow-up? >> i don't. >> moderator: next question from century. >> representative curtis come you said you'd -- on the other hand, many of your supporters also have serious concerns about

climate change and global warming, which they say is caused by fossil fuel burning. aren't you having it both ways talking up jobs from the false bill industry? and also think of environmental committee yes, i'm concerned about global warming? curtis: wow, santa, you asked a lot of questions in one. coal is an important part of our economy and the absolute support the good jobs that it produces. as far as the climate change part of that, i have stepped up to the plate here and said that i'm willing to work with both sides of the aisle. i'm willing to work with anyone who is willing to have the conversation about how we support all sectors of the economy, not just the largest corporations and the wealthiest individuals. part of that is creating a long-term plan for shifting to greener technologies, renewables like wind and solar. >> moderator: congressman

daines. daines: so i support building the keystone pipeline. it took the canadian government seven must approve the keystone pipeline. it's taken this president now six years. this president needs to stand with the people of montana. i will go back to washington and stand for the people of montana who wants the keystone pipeline bill. we passed a bill in the house had approved the keystone pipeline the u.s. senate refused to take up one of the. on the issue of coal, $121 of revenue every year to support our schools, teachers, infrastructure as well as low-cost electricity. 51% of our electricity comes from coal. this president and the epa are declaring war on coal. a war on coal is a war on the crow people of montana that is what this president is waging right on the national resources in montana. >> moderator: amanda. curtis: congressman daines spent much of his time in the private sector building up jobs in china.

he has spent much of his time in congress incentivizing corporations to ship the process and our jobs to china. so it's no surprise that he would fight so hard to ship our oil and our refining jobs to china. and we should be demanding the high-paying permanent jobs that would come from building the infrastructure to refine it here. >> moderator: steve. daines: i'm a bit confused on my opponents position. she came out against the keystone pipeline originally and now she says she supports the if the product is refine a. there is a lot that is 39 years old that prohibited the export of cricket all the keystone oil is going to get refined into tried it. that love assigned by president jerry ford on december 22, 1975. and so i'm not sure why she put the condition on the keystone pipeline. it will all be refined to but it has to be because of law. we can't export crude. have but if i could defend

myself. my dad is a laborer common laborers on one of the unions that depend on temporary jobs like the keystone to feed, clothe and ensure their kids. i understand why anyone how important those tempered jobs are to our state. >> moderator: and with that we're moving towards the half-hour mark of our one hour debate. you're watching the u.s. senate debate tonight on the montana television network. we will be back in one minute. >> welcome back to cam campaign 2014, the senate debate on montana pbs. and we welcome you back to msu billings for tonight's u.s. senate debate between democrat amanda curtis of republican steve daines. we're live on the montana television network along with yellowstone public radio and montana news network. along with c-span to across the nation. first question of the second of the debate i will ask a limit

about your ads. i met him we've seen one of your ads on tv. you say we need one of us in the senate. i've talked to people who think we need somebody a lot smarter than us in the senate. are you suggesting perhaps we need to dumb down the senate, or maybe you have some explaining to do? curtis: that's an interesting perspective. thank you for that. when our founding fathers wrote our founding documents, they did not have intend for corporations to be running the show. they intended for teachers and electricians and plumbers to be making the decisions that affect us and our citizen legislature. i have found in beating montanans that they're a little bit of -- meeting montana's. they don't think they're quite smart enough to do or don't have the right background. and the reason that i stepped up to the plate is to prove that you do not have to be a silver spoon fed politician, a career

politician to represent working families, and that the best person to represent workers in this state is one of us. >> moderator: a follow-up to that. i think we're getting to your expert 50 think you're the expense to represent the state and u.s. senate with one year in the house of representatives and your background as a high school teacher? curtis: absolutely. i'm sure by now most folks have read in the local paper about my background growing up in poverty right here in billings, and the adversity that i experienced. most people know that i've dedicated my life to education because it's the pathway to overcoming the first day that i've experienced. the expenses that i've had in a working-class family in the state of montana absolutely make me the best person to be our voice in the united states senate. >> moderator: congressman daines. daines: we do agree we didn't have more of a system type

legislature in washington. we need more men and women who have real-world expense that can bring that back, taking the skills learned in the private sector outside washington to help lead the country. growing up in bozeman, mom and dad grew up in billings. my grandma still live in the same 1100 square foot home for 45 years until she passed away just a few months ago. i can tell you what i grew up watching a mom and dad got up construction business from nothing. we moved about every and have to stay a step ahead of the bank. i worked summers in construction to put myself through college at montana state university in engineering but i think we need people who have had experience growing jobs, growing businesses because we talk about jobs. i'm the only candidate on this stage has been updated and created hundreds of good high paying jobs right here in montana. >> moderator: quick rebuttal, amanda. curtis: i just have to apologize to all of the teachers out there for what you just heard.

because we know that teachers are also very important job creators in our state and in our country. >> moderator: steve, i've a question about some of your ads. one of your ads touts the balanced budget accountability act. the fact is evidence of that act was introduced its just in committee, given a 5% of passing. but the ad makes selling everything is cool. we balanced the budget and that congress won't get paid as long as the budget isn't valid. must much it congress was to getting paid and the budget is not balanced. daines: and there's the problem come in washington to put a talk about that idea with montana's come below the idea. let's not a congress they feel they get the budget balance. go back to washington, d.c., that's a broken it is. members of congress don't want to get on board because it holds them accountable. i think we are to reform the entire system. we need an amendment, the constitution requires a balanced budget. and montana we balanced the budget. we do at every session.

why? is the requirement to balance the budget. they can't leave helena without the 49 states have the requirement. washington, d.c. does not. so that is the battle we face in the culture washington, career politics who have been far too long. you need to change the culture by electing more men and women who bring expenses outside of government and bring them to government to lead. >> moderator: isn't that built as a symbolic bill? there's no teeth in it. in fact, congress will stick abate even paid even if that passes because it only reduces a portion of their annual salary. so the ad is false in that respect. daines: no dozen. we done research on it but it would impact the current congress and the future congress. believe me there's plenty of skin in the game and that is why we've resistance that from members of congress. we've had discussions and they say that might mean i don't get paid. that's the clock the reason i've introduced a bill. because of congress refuses to balance the budget, they will not get paid to when you told

congress a much higher standard. we need to hit them in their pocketbook because they're hitting us and our pocketbooks time for a minute, quick rebuttal time for any of your familiar with the average earnings in congress but i can guarantee you that not a single one of those people is worried about losing their salaries. if all of congressman daines as were telling the truth, then i wouldn't have to be standing in front of you right now. >> moderator: jackie yamanaka, next question. >> congressman daines, your party has talked to the medicare reform, and so this evening i'm asking you for specific solutions that you would support to keep his health care program for senior citizens this glue solvent. daines: so, we need to engage in an adult discussion around how we preserve medicare for the generation going forward.

as i have thought reflective, look at what's going on in washington, here's the problem. as soon as somebody suggest a reform to save medicare for future generations, immediately 30-second ads pop up and/or suggested that id -- i do will be vilified. we have to start with two operating principles. number one, we are not going to touch the benefits of existing seniors today, or those approaching retirement. but number two, we are going to have to come forward with reforms for our children and our grandchildren will not receive this important safety net but it will be gone in their generation. and medicare trustees project medicare runs out and about 2033. so we don't have a lot of time. it's going to require truly a bipartisan agreement between republicans and democrats sitting down and agreeing that

we'll get this done to there was a tip for that. the problem was they got caught in the politics of washington and it died. >> moderator: admitted, your rebuttal. curtis: i will absolutely support the medicare protection act that protects the eligibility age. one way we can help keep medicare solvent is by cutting down on improper payments. we need to support programs that will keep montanans in the home and in the community are once again i will a point -- pointed to congressman daines' voting records. congressman daines did go to turn medicare into a voucher system, a voucher system that would cost montana seniors up to 50% more in their premiums. >> moderator: congressman daines. daines: first of all i never voted for a voucher system but let me say as it relates to medicare. i introduced the bill about six weeks ago that looks at one of the problems is washington.

the affordable care act right now is going to impose a hardship on those businesses that provide in home health care for medicare patients. my grandmother had that. wenches and early '90s she preferred to stay in her little home and have somebody come to her home and care for her instead of being in an institution or some kind of assisted living. it was better for her and it was more cost-effective for the taxpayer. and the affordable care act is placing a burden after it goes into effect january 1, and the bill introduced ask for a two-year reprieve on that so we can keep this in home health care system which medicare patients like. and it save taxpayer dollars but here's an unfortunate consequence of the affordable care act. >> moderator: unmanned the. curtis: i would just like to remind -- amanda. curtis: transom has a clear voting record that cannot be ignored. he has a 10% rating with a different senior organization,

and i will support the older americans act that provide services like meals on wheels and the montana agent services that keeps seniors in their homes and in their communities. >> moderator: next question, mike dennison. >> representative curtis, you receive an f. rating from the national rifle association which i believe is supporting congressman daines. if i'm a gun owner and i care about gun rights why should i vote for you? curtis: i am a staunch supporter of our second amendment rights. by husband and i just in the week before the nominating convention were out shooting the browning 12 gauge light that his grandfather weasley passed away last to us. this is just another example of the other side not being able to talk about the issues that we've outlined so far in this debate. so they turned to making me look like something that i'm not. >> moderator: congressman daines. daines: i've been a lifelong of the nra. i grew up accessing our public

lands, hunting and fishing public lands in montana, enjoying shooting sports. i remember i took my first antelope with my grandfather, and have great memories growing up in montana enjoyed shooting sports. let's remember, the second amendment as an as it is for hunting and those privileges is not about hunting. it is about freedom. it is about liberty. i received an a+ rating from the nra but it's the highest score ever given to a statewide candidate in montana. might appoint receive an f. rating from the nra. it is the lowest score ever given to a statewide candidate in history of montana. i think it illustrates her extreme position on this most important issue to most montanans. >> moderator: amanda. curtis: unfortunately the nra started out as a wonderful educational group about gun safety and gun ownership has become another lobbying group for corporate special interests, and montanans should be much more worried about accessing the

public land. as long as were talking about accessing a public lands so that we can use our firearms, and as long as we're talking about voting records, let me just point out that congressman daines has the lowest rating on conservation of any congressman to ever represent this state of 4%. >> moderator: next question to sanjay. a question of public lands. >> yes, for congressman daines. you've called for in montana made solution to the question of how we manage our national forests and restore our ailing timber industry. as you know, senator tester has pushed a bill that mandates logging levels in three national forests. why not go with a compromise that could pass, could get timber flowing to the mills fairly soon? and then work forward from that to try and expand it to around the country and other national

forests as you said you like to do? daines: when i was growing up we had 30 active sawmills in montana. today we have only 11. timber harvest on federal land is down over 80% from where it was back in the late '80s and early '90s. it's not because the housing industry has gone soft. our current utilization of our timber products industry in montana is around 65%. it would be a 100% except for one reason, blogs. they can't get enough timber. so what john put together with this bill was a good start but it just affected three national forests and that hasn't had through the senate floor. we passed a bill in the house that would restore healthy forest and healthy committees but it affects all 10 national forest in montana and create thousands of timber jobs and it will be there in perpetuity. the bill john had something continued. we have a bill that actually passed the house with bipartisan support so we've got a bill moving forward right now but will a chance to pass a bill

that does a conference of timber reform and bring back the 10 industry which is such a vital part. go up to lincoln county today. i dinner one night with a couple in eureka and they said you how i described lincoln county? poverty with a view. we need to change that. >> moderator: amanda, your response. curtis: when i was in the montana legislature, i saw literally hundreds of montanans show up and stay late into the night waiting to testify in favor of the force jobs and recreation act. that's a bill that was written by montanans for montanans, it represents a true compromise between conservation groups and the timber industry. and i've heard congressman daines a less government, but he completely for took that montana made solution in favor of a d.c.

mandate to clear-cut our forests. he also sponsored a land grab bill that would sell a public lands out to out of state developers. >> moderator: congressman daines. daines: that last statement is absolutely false. what we push for was the same thing the white house is asking for, and that is to study all the federal assets. for example, there's a building in washington, d.c., a federal building with over $100 million has been vacant for 12 years. it might make sense to sell the building, but we will not allow the sales of public lands here in montana. those are lands that belong to the republica people of montanal stand and fight for the. there are 2 million acres a montana public lands that are ae inaccessible and the bill i cosponsored says we need to provide a way so we can get to the 2 million acres so montanans have better access to their public land. >> moderator: quick follow-up. curtis: sure. you know, the bill he just spoke

about with some political grandstanding and i know that because congressman daines went right back, turned around and voted against funding our access to public lands. when he talks about more jobs, how many more jobs, timber jobs to we have in the state after they're done clearcutting our national forests? it's not a sustainable solution for timber management. >> moderator: next question goes to jackie yamanaka. >> representative curtis, immigration has raised his concerns about our national security, our economy, and now our public health. ..

the agencies that are responsible for protecting our country from biological threats. congressman steve daines voted for a shutdown that cost this agency's millions of dollars and made it harder for those specialists to do their jobs. he also voted against ending this sequestration that would have restored funding to this cdc and national institutes of health. pitchfork congressman daines daines: the question on border security, we need to continue to secure our borders. we need to secure our borders. i was on the house floor in debate here a couple of months ago. a representative from texas was down the southern border talking to those brave men and women who are in the u.s. border patrol. he said, from january 1st up until around early july the border patrol had apprehended individuals from

144 different countries, including three ukrainians the prior week. 196 countries in the world. so border security needs to be our first part. we must secure the borders for the threats of terrorist groups and isis and the national security of this nation. >> moderator: the question on border security. curtis: absolutely. work together on this issue and put forth bills that will increase the number of worker visas at all levels so that unskilled laborers all the way up to workers who hold master's degrees in it stem areas will be able to stay and work in our country and have a reasonable pathway to citizenship. that is the kind of working together that i will represent as your next united states senator.

>> congressman daines, you have been talking and a lot about jump starting the economy and creating more jobs in montana. most of the things you have talked about have been good. less regulation and lower taxes. how is this not just warmed over trickle-down economics? if i am mischaracterizing, please say so. what can you tell me that has worked? daines: we need to keep fighting for the middle-class. keep moving forward as aggressively as possible with an energy security strategy. one of the greatest challenges for the middle-class is getting a good, high-paying job. but also high energy prices. we need to approve the keystone pipeline and move forward on building that. i was out at an electric co-op paul while back. they told me that the keystone pipeline approved, those few thousand of montana co-op customers will see no increase in their

electric rates for the next ten years. if the keystone pipeline is not approved, their rates will see an increase of about 40%. why? because they are supplying electricity to a pump station. that is how you help the middle-class. living month-to-month on social security checks, month-to-month barely making it. and we do that by creating jobs, by ensuring we keep energy prices low. wire gas prices dropping in this country right now, big help to the middle class? it is because the saudis see the fact that the u.s. will be the leading oil-producing area the world. next year we will surpass russia and saudi arabia, and that is not because of barack obama but in spite of barack obama montanans amanda curtis. [applause] curtis: you know, middle class montana, ask yourself. are you better off in the

last two years that we have had congressman daines? we sense more of the same to vote for millionaires and billionaires and corporate special interest, and you just heard it for yourself. the truth is, i have rolled out a jobs plan that emphasizes small businesses as the backcourt -- backbone of our economy, and emphasizes agriculture, which is hampered at every part of the process by corporate. i will work with both sides of the aisle to come up with solutions that work for all sectors of the economy, not just the biggest corporations and the wealthiest individuals. >> moderator: c-span2, rebuttal please. ♪ you know, you take a trip and talk to those hundreds of individuals out there who depend on coal for their way of life. you get to the crow indian reservation where they have a 50 percent unemployment rate. without the development of coal resources on the

reservation the unemployment rate would be 80 to 90%. how do you help the middle class, middle class montana, hard-working taxpayers? by ensuring that they have a job. that is why the national education association supports the timber bill that is moving forward in the house right now, white county commissioners across montana support that timber bill. we get good, high-paying jobs in our natural resource industry here in montana. timber, oil, natural gas, hydro, but we need to make sure that we continue to us support and expand our coal production here in montana. >> moderator: amanda, a quick rebuttal of. daines: -- curtis, i will support the tax credit and understand how critical it is to our economy. i have actually spoken with workers in the yellowstone county refineries who are very concerned that they're refining jobs are going to be shipped down that pipeline. montanans just have a couple

of minutes to go. i will take the last question. they just had a poll out that showed in this race 20-25 percent of the people have not yet made up there minds. so give us your pitch, amanda, for these people sitting on the fence. how they might determine who wins this. curtis: you know, medicare and social security need to be preserved. who is going to do that in the senate? if one of us, someone who understands that those programs, programs that workers in montana have paid into for decades and should be able to retire without worrying where brush trees or health care will come from. access to public land absolutely needs to be preserved. to is going to do that? one of us, someone who understands that montanans are not able to take a vacation in this state without access to public land, not the most extreme congressman that our state

has ever had who has voted to turn medicare into a voucher system and has voted to sell off our public lands and certainly not the congressman who has received the most amount of money possible from citizens united, who thinks that corporations are people and money is speech. montanans disagree with that >> moderator: a quick rebuttal. daines: well, montanans want to see somebody who has the experience growing jobs. growing up as a sportsman who has an a-plus rating from the nra, unlike my opponent has an average rating from the nra, that is a significant difference. a lot of montanans vote for guns. it shows extreme positions that my opponent has taken, particularly with the second amendment. i stand for more jobs, less government. we need someone who will stand up for montana and not somebody who will stand up for obama.

>> moderator: we have to go to our closing statement. you have the first. you have two minutes. ♪ all right. thanks. and thank you for coming tonight. i want to thank the people of montana for giving me the privilege of serving as your congressman for the past two years. i love our state. it is an honor to serve as the lone congressman for the state of montana. my background as a little different. my mom and dad started a home construction business. i get a degree in engineering and worked for 28 years creating good, high-paying jobs. that engineering background allows me to take a look at a problem and find a solution. and that is why in my first year in congress i was ranked as the number one most effective member of congress, first to remember, of 75. forty democrats, 35 republicans. ranked number one because we actually moved legislation through and get things

passed. we are well received across the state, and a positive message is more jobs, more high-paying jobs, and less government. a government that is more efficient and effective and accountable to the people of montana. you know, we need d.c. to look more like montana. we don't want montana to look more like washington d.c. several months ago i was at the yellowstone county fair. i ran into a cowboy from eastern montana. he had let their hands. he was over 90 years old. he had a hunched back, wearing his cowboy hat, and he said, steve, he said, i fought in world war ii in europe. i fought for my country, but i grew up in eastern montana, and i am glad to have been in montana virtually all of my life. he grabbed my hand with tears in his eyes and said to my have never been so afraid for my country in my life.

we need a new direction in washington, and the united states senate to my new president, and i will stand with the people of montana. i will not stand with president obama. i thank you for coming tonight and kindly ask for your support on november november 4th. montanans 210, you have two minutes. we will give you a chance to apply at the end. @booktv i agree to take this nomination for several reasons. one being a would not have to run a negative personal campaign. my opponent has a voting record that cannot be ignored. his voting record clearly shows how out of touch he is with the needs of montanans. voters in montana deserved to be as fully informed as they can when they go to cast their ballot. one debate two weeks after balance dropped is not what we ask for, certainly a lot less than the voters deserve. but it is a start. and i think after tonight

everyone can see that there is a crystal clear choice for montanans on november november 4th between congressman daines, the most extreme congressman that montana has ever had, or myself, a woman who truly is one of us, who understands our struggle, working month-to-month without ever being -- without ever getting ahead because d.c. policies tilt the playing field against us at every turn. i will work with anyone who is willing to come up with solutions that help all sectors of the economy, not just the biggest corporations and the wealthiest individuals. i will support montana-made solutions for access to public land and science- based management of forests and wildlife. i will protect and preserve programs like medicare and social security and the montana aging services,

programs that keep montanans in their homes and in their communities. as the first female senator in montana, i will vote for equal pay for equal work and raising the minimum wage because we all know that the best way to estimate the economy is to empower them middle-class and working families. thank you very much for having me. [applause] [applause] >> moderator: nice job. think you very much. thank you for joining us tonight. along with our friends and the montana news network, we will see you on election night. [applause] ♪ >> the montana television network in partnership with montana at pbs thanks you for watching campaign 2014, the senate debate. thanks to support from the

greater montana foundation. the greater montana foundation founded by pioneer who supports communications. ♪ >> live at 7:00 p.m. eastern on our companion network, c-span, a debate from the massachusetts governor's race. massachusetts attorney general, and in 2010 she ran for senate losing to republican scott brown. after being copley's, brown went on for a senate term and since has moved to new hampshire and this year is running for senate again against democratic incumbent jeanna shaheen. those two candidates are debating tonight at 8:00 eastern also live on c-span. now here on c-span2 a look

at some of the tv ads from the new hampshire senate race. >> and jeanna shaheen, and i approve this message. >> scott brown says. >> i'm pro-choice. >> but way too often that is not how he votes. he sponsored a bill so employers to deny women health insurance for birth control. >> i can't believe him. >> and brown pushed for a lot to force women considering abortion to look at color photographs of developing fetuses. no wonder anti-choice groups in massachusetts endorsed scott brown. >> i don't trust scott brown. ♪ >> you may have seen that senator jeanna shaheen is running an ad calling into question my support for women's health care. i want you to know the facts. i am pro-choice and support continued funding for planned parenthood and believe women should have access to contraception. after six years senator jeanna shaheen has voted -- con two is near campaign.

she knows better and the people of new hampshire deserved better. i'm scott brown, and i approve this message. >> ibook c-span.org and i approve this message. >> big oil companies are the most profitable on the planet. but scott brown voted to give them more than 20 billion in taxpayer subsidies. >> i don't trust scott brown for a minute. >> big oil gave scott brown thousands of dollars. >> scott brown does not care about the hampshire. >> and now they are printing millions to get him back to congress. >> scott brown is in it for scott brown, nobody else. not new hampshire. no way. >> oh, hey. i know what you are thinking , another ad. hear me out. senator jeanna shaheen says she puts you first but votes with obama 99% of the time, 99%. more spending, more debt. obamacare. come on. we have to put up with obama for two more years, but we

can fire jeanna shaheen now. let's fire jeanna shaheen. okay. there is or video. >> the new hampshire senate debate between democrat jeanna shaheen and republican scott brown is live tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. and here more campaign debates starting at 8:00 eastern. first, from the 12th district of illinois democratic congressman and republican challenger. it >> be part of c-span campaign 2014 coverage. it debate schedules, video clips of key moments, debate previews from our politics team.

c-span is bringing you over 100 senate, house, and government debates. you can instantly share your reaction. the battle for control of congress. stay in touch and engaged by following asset on twitter and liking as on facebook. >> up next on c-span2, a conversation about baseball and american life. we will hear from supreme court justice samuel alito, columnist george will, and david brooks from the new york times. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon.

radio and television audiences, hello, everybody. how nice to see you. let's play. how wonderful a is to see you. how wonderful to welcome you to the great washington writers series luncheon on the subject of baseball, america's game. some people seem confused. they actually think pro football is america's game, but it is not. baseball is america's game. this is sponsored today, in part, by the boston red sox. [applause] i chair for the red sox -- [applause] >> i chair for the red sox.

this is an extension of that series. the red sox are the only team in professional sports that sponsors a literary series. i am also president of the city club of san diego and the denver forum, which are to american public forums collectively of 70 years and more than 2,200 programs presented in the public interest. end the dialogue of democracy. this is our second washington event. there are more that lie ahead. you will help us make that decision. in many ways, if you are going to do a literary series, this is one of the great cities in which to do it. there are a number of writers here today.

jane levied date to of the best books ever. one on mickey mantle, and the other on sandy koufax. [applause] and to every writer in the room, we want particularly to tell you how much we appreciate you and the art form in which you engage because there are very few, if any, that are more important. i have several other introductions i would like to make. first, the former director of the federal bureau of investigation, the hon. william sessions. [applause] the former counsel to the president of the united states george w. bush.

[applause] i also want you to meet the co-chairs of a greater washington writer series, to extraordinary individuals, usually successful in the field of business. first, i canfield's. the stand so that we can review. [applause] and greg rosenbaum. mr. rosenbaum is somewhere. there he is. [applause] i also want to acknowledge the presence of one of the owners of the washington nationals. [applause] and the senior director of ballpark experience.

it. [applause] we have one book that is available for signing at the end. there are few left. don't leave the university club without getting mr. willis polk and having him sign it for you. let me introduce, first, our panel. beginning with from the united states supreme court, associate justice samuel alito. [applause] and you can come on up. next, from the new york times and pbs, david brooks. [applause]

somebody who wrote a book entitled is this a great camel or white, which is the funniest book i have ever read, the one and only tim kurkjian. [applause] and one of my all-time favorites, christine brennan. [applause] and finally on the panel the incomparable george will. [applause] and the book is on the hundredth anniversary of wrigley field, nice little place on the north side.

it is my privilege to introduce our moderator who has become a great, great friend. you have a copy of one of his books. he has written two others. he is an attorney from dallas, texas, an extraordinary fellow here with his wonderful family, and i would ask that you welcome, please, talmage boston. [applause] >> before we begin i will take a personal privilege. at the front table here we have part of the ownership group and executive vice president for the rangers. the rangers have come to town this weekend to play a series. it is the first time that they have played a game in the nation's capital since they left town 41 years ago

as the washington senators. this is an historic occasion this weekend. now, as george will points out in his marvelous new book, years ago a man who probably knew nothing about baseball spoken of the ideal for parliamentary dialogue using words that apply to what we hope to achieve the next hour. churchill said, a good dialogue is quick, informal, conversational, requires a fairly small space and on great occasions there should be a sense of crown and urgency. well, with a tip of the captain sir winston, our esteemed panelists today are all people at the top of their field, quick, and formal, and conversational, particularly when the subject is our national pastime. we have a great crowd, and the clock compels a sense of urgency. let's talk baseball.

first topic of conversation, your initial passion for the game. it was once said, the appeal of baseball is intimately wrapped up with a place where you got to know it in your youth. so the question for the panel, where did you first get wrapped up in baseball, and in that place briefly describe the the games line drive into your heart. justice samuel alito, you want to lead off. >> well, when i think of it i think of summers when i was young. they seemed like they lasted forever, and that is what my friends and i would do all summer. we played baseball, collected baseball cards. unfortunately my strategy was not to collect a lot of mickey mantle cards which would be valuable. i would treat my extra all-star cards for the card of some guy who played one

game. [laughter] and then i remember going to games with my family. in those days we would go to a doubleheader on sunday, i think, for under $15. we could drive to philadelphia, a park on the street, to beans, bring your own lunch, had a special spot that was almost and obstructed view seat but not quite. we tried to get in the two games before the sunday curfew in philadelphia. you could not in those days start an inning after 6:00 on sunday night. >> what about even? >> yes, all of it really was -- [laughter] it is always one in every crowd or two. anyway, i grew up in the suburbs of toledo, ohio, and i am the oldest of four kids.

it was not brothers but my dad. my personal title mind. republican party chairman in '88, the first george bush. and so the big east feminist and i knew. anyway, here i am growing up in the 60's and 70's, and i wanted to follow baseball. he encouraged that every step of the way. and i got one of the score books i am sure many of you had. i sat by my radio and listened to games and kept score has a 10-year-old girl i daresay not only were very few girls keeping score of minor-league baseball games at the age of ten, i daresay very few boys were, but i was. and it we had season tickets my dad arranged this and got those for ross. also went to a lot of detroit tigers games because

the tigers have for a few years and the aaa team. so that 45 mile drive, we got a chance to follow our favorites. they would be called up, and then go and see them play. and like you we traded baseball cards and would do something else, send the cards to the players and ask them to sign them. every single time -- obviously a different era and now -- every time they didn't send them back. >> the good old days. >> my collection, hank aaron on a baseball. it still says the brew of 714, hank aaron and his 600th in the and i real piece of history. i have those. i am not giving them up. >> there you go. george, we know of your love for the cubs.

>> i grew up in illinois, literally between chicago and st. louis. an aged to tender to make life shaping decisions i had to choose between the cubs and the cardinals. all my friends became cardinal fans and grew up cheerful and liberal. [laughter] i became a deacon service. i've played baseball briefly and badly for little league team. my team was the north funeral home panthers. [laughter] our caller was black. baseball at that time -- i think i acquired it from radio. baseball was naturally in the air in central illinois. you had two teams in st. st. louis, the browns and two teams in chicago. the st. louis, i listened to

a lot of baseball. and i think and became a cub fan because i could not bear the cardinals announcer who was harry carey. [laughter] who is now of the statute outside wrigley field. no good deed goes on punished. >> and i will tell you, his new book has a great anecdote. i will leave it at that. soon not miss it. david brooks, new york mets fans. >> 1968, i was seven years old in lower manhattan and discovered the new york mets it was fine. they were not scared. [laughter] then the next year the skies opened up, got appeared, it afire, miracle of miracles, maybe in most magical year of my life and certainly the most magical year of baseball, mets history. every miracle that could

happen happened. the mets beat the baltimore orioles and the world series, and it taught me -- it changed my whole religious philosophy. life is sweet, miracles happen, it will go through bill buckner's legs, and you may become conservative, but he will be a sunny, optimistic conservatives. >> all right. tim, baltimore, how did it start as a child? >> well, baseball is all we talked about in my house growing up. nobody but nobody loved or had a better feel for the game and my father, and he was a really good player in his state. two brothers in the baseball hall of fame at catholic university. this is all we did, all we talked about growing out. in the sixth grade my teacher stopped class at 130 in the afternoon so that we

could watch the world series game between the red sox and the cardinals. and for a young guy like me who was madly in love with the game to have a teacher say, we're not studying anymore. we will watch the world series, that was important to me. and then i went to walter johnson high school named after the greatest pitcher of all time and played baseball and basketball there and wrote for the school paper. [laughter] and i did some work for the year book called the wind up. [laughter] so i figured i went to a school named after the greatest pitcher ever. i have to make a career of this somehow. graduating high-school at five ft. two did not help, so i decided i'd better be a baseball writer. thirty-five years later. >> great. [applause] how about that.

second topic, baseball heroes. among all the man who played baseball, there is very occasionally in man of such qualities of heart, mind, and body that he transcends even the great and glorious game. the question for the panel, give us your perspective on the ball player who most has transcended the game. george, do you want to start? >> no. [laughter] no, i will start. i hesitate because transcending baseball would be a vice. i will just tell you who my favorite player was, how's that? in my 67 years my favorite player is rickey henderson. baseball, unlike football or basketball, it is a game in which you cannot takeover, except he could.

he would get up there with the strike zone the size of rhode island and get to first base and steal second and a third and scored on a sacrifice fly in the game is over. if you look at his numbers it seems to me you have to put him among the all-time greats. if you put him together, as we all do in our spare time, the all-time team, you get to the outfield. you have got to have tapered fit and then it seemed to be if you are going to play a game, he has to be in your all-time outfield, rickey henderson. >> tim. >> i have a few. i grew up here. eddie blakeman was a shortstop for the washington senators when i was a kid, and he was great. when i met him as a scout i told him what a great fan at once. he looked at me like he could not believe that anyone actually watched him play.

[laughter] and, of course, frank howard was my hero here because he hit home runs to places where they are still not hitting them today, and he hit then there 50 years ago. during my time as a kid, willie mays was the best player and i have ever seen, and to this day he is still the greatest player i have ever seen. i learned more watching cal ripken as a baseball player and basketball player than anyone, and get the other day i sat -- this is the beauty of the game. an engine have taller than i am, and trust me when i tell you, my hands are twice as big as his. and he is the mvp of the legal few years ago and one of the best players in the game. he looks much more likely than anybody. if you were sitting in his room and did not know who he was you would not. and that is the duty of the

game. a little guy, little hands, great player. that is baseball. >> there you go. [applause] >> david, who is your favorite player? who most transcended the game? >> my favorite player was the center fielder for the mets. i have always had quirky favorite players. for a long time a guy who played briefly for the mets and became a hitting instructor. what i liked was he had the latest swing i have ever seen. the ball across the front of the plate before he began his swing. he would still pull it, i short, beautiful little swing that was tranquil and serene. i am reminded of rickey henderson which does teach you one truth about the game, it is not a game that rewards thinking all the time. [laughter] and i don't know where i got this story. most come from tens book, so this could be a repetition.

i recall a story, and i would not trusted to put in the paper without checking it out, but he was given a big bonus, his first in the majors, and he -- the team noticed that he never cashed the check. and they said, why haven't you cashed the check? for. ♪ , welcome my friend did. i wanted to keep it as a souvenir. and the other rickey henderson story, he played with a first baseman who wore a helmet on his head. you wrote it. i am not stealing your story . >> the first baseman had a brain aneurysm. he wore a helmet when he played in the field to protect his head.

[laughter] >> said, that was me. [laughter] >> all right. >> well, one more. the check was $4 million. it was an ace pensive framed artifacts. and late in his career he arrived at the yankees. he got on the team bus one day. team rules vary from team to team. he sat down in the front and someone said, that is for people with tenure. he says, ten year, i've got 16 years. [laughter] very late in his career he called the general manager of the padre's and left the following message on his voice message. this is ricky calling about rickey. [laughter] ricky wants to play baseball that is why he is my hero.

[laughter] >> justice samuel alito, who is the person that transcended? >> without question, the player who most transcended the game was jackie robinson , a figure of historic importance that goes beyond baseball. my favorite player growing up was richie aspirin. why i picked him, i don't know. he was a great player. i also don't know why i picked the valleys. my situation was similar. i lived in trenton, halfway between. the yankees won the world series practically every year. the phillies had never. naturally, i chose the phillies. [laughter] and i do think it has an affect on your thinking. but which she was a great player, kind of money ballplayer before his prime. he almost never hit a homerun but had a great guy.

he walked a lot, and he could fall off pitches almost indefinitely. he reminded me of the great riches story. he would fall off, a left-handed hitter. line drives into seats by the third baseline. on one occasion the ball hit a woman. she was hurt. they were carrying her out. and so the next pitch comes in. he hits another foul ball, it's the same woman. [laughter] >> these guys are a tough act to follow. however, in terms of transcendence, absolutely jackie robinson. i also want to throw out a name i mentioned a bit ago, dave ruth. i bet there are kids today playing baseball hopefully just for fun in their yard.

someone is at bat, and there be briefed today. that transcends everything. decades, centuries, what have you. i think that he lives on in many ways in all of us and for the best reasons. and then as far as my childhood favorites, that to lead the mustangs to went up to the detroit tigers. i have assigned baseball card. that was easier to get. but i watched him catch a ball barehanded over the outfield fence. and then he threw the runner out at second. so you don't see that very often. a fellow named tom timberman. he played for the tigers when they were not very good, but he was a relief pitcher. he would sign everything. the club house and the

dugout were not together. the players had to walk out among the fans. and it got to the point where he would look and say, you again. wheat would get another autograph. a fellow who was the fine pitcher for the toledo mud hens, those were my childhood favorites. >> favorite teams. >> famously corrupt in massachusetts. he died in 1989 before the curse of the bambino ended. he said, the red sox are an affliction. they annually reenact the fall of humankind. [laughter] that is what it used to be. more than anything in our culture they recreate the ancient story of admiration, aspiration, and declining in exile. in front of all of our panelists we have the caps

of their favorite teams. as george points out in his book, the poet robert frost talks about the love affair people have with their team, but they also have lovers' quarrel. what is the worst lovers quarrel you have ever had? who wants to go first. we have some rangers' stories. [laughter] >> i will jump in. obviously i guess it would not be up baseball conference in conversation if i did not mention the dreaded word, steroids and performance enhancing drugs. last year for the tigers, of course, suspended. part of the biggest drug bust in baseball history. i think we can agree that that was a good thing. the tigers, of course, had him come back and play in the postseason. i wrote a column for usa today. i thought that was just

awful. he could come back, but it just seemed wrong. and as someone who obviously followed the steroids era in the olympics and baseball, such a huge story and remains so because of the lesson it teaches our children. we want that little scrawny shortstop and one-third of steroid users and high-school are girls. we want that little girl or boy who is a sophomore in high school who thinks if they get a little bigger and try something different, we want them to get the message by having adults who are role models. so i thought it was a terrible thing to have that joy of having -- of being able to be in the postseason. as you may know, major league baseball as come up with the rule that you cannot -- if you are suspended during the season you cannot reap the benefits

of the postseason and play, even if your suspension is up, which, of course, was the case last year. >> your book is basically a lovers' quarrel. do you want to weigh in on the worst moment? >> a poet once said that life is a long preparation for something that never happens. [laughter] that is basically the experience of being a cubs fan. so many. the most important thing that ever happened in wrigley field did not happen. it seems to me it is too good to check. [laughter] but i was -- and i say this with trepidation and front of my friends in the texas rangers. i was at game six. i'm sorry, but i was at the game in chicago when the the

poor devil did what any fan would do and what a dozen other fans around him were doing, reaching for a foul ball that was in the stands. and if he had not had a theatrical canton, which to this day he regrets, he would not be in the witness protection program moreover he is. this is game six. the cubs had one more game to play. someone shouted, give them tomorrow. i said, not a chance. one more. 1984 playing the padres. the first two games in wrigley field, this was best of five. i am walking out of the ballpark with a hall of fame pitcher. all right. now do you believe? and i said, every fan knows

it is the padres in five. [laughter] which it was because the ball went through the legs. they went through the legs of the first baseman. >> all right. tim. >> well, i guess my quarrel was with parole weaver of the orioles, one of the three greatest managers of all time, i have learned so much some. the first time i met him was 1979. the backup baseball writer at the washington star, and i was introduced. i was a little bit nervous. he says, this is tim. he is going to cover the team, help me out. and he looks at me and goes to my bleeped you and walks away. that was it. [laughter] and he taught me so much.

he made me laugh so many times. and the only story you really need to know is, while managing the team one of his outfielders decided to join the ministry while he is playing in the major leagues. so he waits, of course, for the moment to get tell his manager of this big step in his life. he finally finds the perfect moment. he says, i am going to walk with the lord. he says, i would rather you walk with the bases loaded. [laughter] and this last story is not funny but tells you an awful lot about her role and buck. i was at a simulated game which tells you what kind of life i lead. [laughter] two years ago. and i am sitting. there are like four people there.

sitting next to the dugout. i know him well. telstar me because we will be here all day. he says, we are going to run his pickoff play. he basically invented it in the 60's. no one else used it. earl invented it. and buck knows that rural invented this, so he ran it during the simulated game. so he did that. he runs the place. he smacks me on the shoulder and goes, that's my plate. meaning, out of respect for rural they ran this place. almost 50 years later he recognized it and realized, they are doing this for me. that told me allot about oral. >> ever had a lover's quarrel? >> quite a few. [laughter] without question the biggest one was 1964.

after having a horrible team, some of the worst teams ever, somehow they were in first place with, i think, 12 games to go, six and a half games ahead, almost impossible to blow that. there were going to go to the world series which was incredible for me. and then baseball really has this ability to break your heart. i don't know that there is any other game that can do it quite the same way. there are moments when something happens. there are decisions that somebody makes. years later, you wonder, was that the right decision. and the manager decided that he did not have confidence in the number three and four starters. in those days they had a four pitcher rotation.

and they lost. they went on a losing streak the cardinals went on a big winning streak. the world series came around, and the phillies were not in it. it scarred my youth. [laughter] >> the rangers a couple of years ago. >> exactly the same kind of sinister as he was pitcher. [laughter] >> i was there. i gave a talk in dallas at the big ballroom. we watched the game. i spoke. it probably the least attended speech i have ever given. we turned the game back. i remember people saying, chanting six more outs, five more outs, for more outs, champagne being poured. the final out never came.

it was terrifying because he was going to drive me home. [laughter] champagne turned to harder stuff. we have the better half of the family whispered to me, don't worry. i will take you home. but my -- many feuds. trading away nolan ryan was a good idea. the family called me, i should really invest with this guy madoff. but the one thing -- and this is my question for the reporters. i have always tried hard to stay away for the fear that it would affect my love. i used the press pass a couple of times. i have always felt acutely uncomfortable in the locker rooms. and i love watching you guys play. i don't want to see the need

not shows. so i always try to maintain that distance. you guys have kept the love the game. >> next subject, the cheating. hacks of cheating are secretive, covert acts that strike and seek to undermine the basic foundation of any contest and destroy faith in the game's integrity and fairness. it another perspective on cheating. he said, i believe in rules because if there were not in the rules how could you break them? and so the question, how does cheating affect your engagement with baseball? >> well, there are two kinds of cheating, the cheating, performance enhancing drugs is intolerable because it changes the playing field and requires people to either put their health or careers at risk and therefore has been met with

proper sanctions. and i think although we are in an unending competition between the good and bad chemists, it is probably premature to say that we have closed the steroid era in history. think that we are getting there. a great guy, a broadcaster for the giants. the only way he can be hitting like this is he is stealing signs. well, have better signs. [laughter] it is not cheating together all of the intelligence in front of you. by the way, for those of you who have not read it, he has an essay. it is about as long as war and peace. the unwritten rules of baseball.

is a hilarious insight into what baseball considers bad manners. >> well, people have been cheating, whether you like it, for the last 130 years. interestingly, i asked bobby valentine once, is sticking a needle in your but enduing steroids cheating? he said, of course it is. is stuffing a baseball cheating? of course it is. is sticking in -- sticking a needle in your but more of a cheat and scuffing baseball? absolutely not. the really good pitchers can make it do something exactly the way they want, and it almost guarantees success. whereas the kneele does not guarantee anything. he is the only guy have ever heard that has put it quite like that. so i am not sure, but i do

know, three years ago derek jeter pretended to get hit by a pitch. our best guy. no back -- no matter how good you think he is, multiplied it by five. however, in a game three years ago he got hit in and out of the bat and pretended that it is in on the hand and fake like he got hurt and ran to first base and got away with it. and people were outraged. how could he do this? and i had to kind of defend him. this is what they are taught from the day they get to high-school if not before. everyone out there is taught as a professional player, you have to get on no matter what. so it is a little tricky. i am not sure i understand exactly what it is, but people have been cheating,

and i was always told, if you are not cheating, you are not trying. [laughter] >> where do you weigh in? [laughter] >> well, i think the steroids were a real black mark on baseball because baseball is a sport where statistics matter. you can remember statistics, who hit the most home runs, rbis. statistics are an enormous part of the game. and a steroid era produced statistics that i think must be disregarded, certainly for the players who have admitted. but you have to be somewhat suspicious of a lot of the statistics that were compiled during that era. i think that it hurt the

camelot. but tim makes an interesting point about the type of cheating that is accepted, and that is certainly pretending to be hit by pitches one, pretending to catch a ball that was trapped is another one. that just seems to be excepted. ..