in a country church outside of prescott midway united methodist church the values of faith family hard work personal responsibility. i think those guys have served me well for the last 53 years and i wanted to know the same things will service my moral compass as i do my best to hopefully lead to this day. i love the state and i believe in arkansas. i believe in you and i know we can do better. i'm proud to have the endorsement of governor mike beebe. i think he has been one heck of a governor and i want to build on the foundation is laid in improving education cutting taxes creating more and better paying jobs. i want to be the biggest economic ambassador this state has ever had and i want our daughters to be able to earn the same pay as our sons. women in arkansas or 77 -- earn 77 cents for whatever a man next to the dollar. as governor of a plan to address it. finally we are going to send a message loud and clear that

domestic violence will not be tolerated in arkansas. my name is mike ross and i hug him humbly for your vote and support. together, together as democrats independents and republicans we can do a lot to move arkansas forward. we can make a difference. [applause] >> moderator: thank you mr. ross. thank you for participating and finally to you mr. hutchinson. hutchinson: thank you and i want to thank everyone who's watching this debate and has participated and mr. ross as well. we have similar backgrounds in some ways but we come from totally different perspectives when it comes to the direction of our state. i was blessed to be appointed by president ronald reagan as united states attorney. i learned some things are present writing parrot learned about being a consistent conservative than i also learned about hope and opportunity for our great country. while i find myself fighting for

for the conservative cause in many instances in congress and others i've seen mr. ross on the other side. i've seen them on the other side too many times. we need a governor that understands the importance of tax cuts for the middle-class middle class, that understands the opportunity for computer science in every high school to understand the importance of growing the private sector of our economy. these are things that are differences between us. we have differences in experience. i serve not only in the legislative branch but i served in some of the toughest executive positions in our government after 9/11 in homeland security as head of the dea but also here in arkansas. i understand in a private sector running a business tightening your belt and i want to bring those problem-solving skills to our state as governor. my wife susan and i have been blessed with a family, with a passion passion for this day. we want to serve this state because we believe in its future. as ronald reagan was optimistic

about our country even though we struggle and have challenges i'm optimistic about our country and most us -- optimistic about arkansas that we can be united and grow together and we can solve problems together and we can be one team to make this the best place for our children and our grandchildren. i asked ask for your vote. thank you. [applause] >> that's going to do it for the debate. we thank mr. ross and mr. hutchinson. we have had a very lively group. we will give you one more opportunity to get behind your candidate and say thank you for tonight's debate. mike ross and asa hutchinson. [applause]

>> tomorrow a patient tested positive. will you transfer that patient to one of the four hospitals outside of the state that has biocontainment unit? or are you completely confident that they could treat that without any health care workers in place? >> here is what we have done so far and i would feel comfortable that we are doing the right thing here in florida. this is how i thought about it. we have almost 20 million people in the state and about

100 million tourists that come to the this state and we have health care workers and first responders. my goal is to make everyone feel comfortable that we are prepared. just like if there was going to be a hurricane, we would be prepared for it. so the first thing if we'd asked for more from the cdc, testing kits and others as well. we have asked for more protective gear and we asked for doing a conference call to explain to the workers what happened in atlanta versus what happened in dallas. i used to be in a hospital and we did that yesterday, that was a positive. we have asked if we can use some of the federal funding in our agencies to buy more equipment. they have allowed us to do that with their money and the state money and protective gear and so we are headed in the right direction. >> so you feel comfortable with the patients anywhere. okay, in the last debate, you gave the governor high marks

when it came to the handling of ebola. so what grade would you give them in regards to the handling of this crisis for president obama? >> i would get him a number eight. i think the federal administration is doing a commendable job with a difficult situation, and i think it is important that the president work with governors throughout the country to make sure that we are doing everything humanly possible to be prepared and not panic for this issue and i think working with the cdc is important as well with this issue. anyone in the public health arena who has experience with scenarios like this need to rely on them most importantly. >> moderator: okay, let's bring in the department of justice for the next question. >> governor, it is an honor to be a voice for florida voters tonight. we have a question now from facebook. a questioner from ormond beach. why should we trust charlie

crist? his views on education and abortion, it seems like it is something that is expedient for charlie crist. can you respond to him and the other voters? scott: you are true to your core beliefs and how you are raised. the republican leadership has gone so far to the right under the tea party kidnapping, if you will, it is not consistent with what how i was raised in st. petersburg. on abortion i have always been pro-life, but i never felt that it was right for government to impose its will. i think it's important for women to be able to make their own choices about their own bodies and governor scott has a different point of view on that. i am somebody that you can trust and who i have always been and i call it the way i see it and i am for education and we ought to raise the minimum wage and these are things i have else strongly

about and always have. >> moderator: governor, what you have to say? >> one thing as charlie said, he has taken a position to get elected and when you say that, we have to talk about what he actually believes. whether it's on taxes or education or abortion or women's rights. what is he doing this to get elected? >> moderator: charlie crist, you can respond about. crist: we talked about how you know he is telling the truth? have you know that rick is telling the truth? well, this is a man whose company was charged with medicare fraud and had to end up paying the largest fine for medicare fraud in the history of the united states of america. $1.7 billion. and i think the you actually worked on the story, jake, and you did a great job. but when you bring that kind of background and the governor's

office and then you have the kind of cronyism that we have in the scott administration, it makes it hard to believe anything he said. scott: writer is right there is a big difference between charlie and the and i building something from scratch. when something went wrong i take responsibility. and charlie has never taken responsibility. testifying under oath that he was paying judges. he won't take responsibility. his party chairman went to prison. and charlie said he is not responsible. -- >> moderator: thank you, governor. scott: the notion that he would put millions of dollars behind the commercial commercial where someone is a convicted felon is

stunning. that is so interesting. rick, you talk about being accountable. how would you accountable with hca at all? you paid no fines, you didn't give any money back and you left with a couple million dollars when your kids out of the board. i do not call that being responsible. >> moderator: let me ask a direct question of each of you having to do with charges that each of you have leveled just now against the other. governor scott, you said you have taken responsibility for what happened at columbia hca. what specifically are you taking responsibility for? what happened at that firm resulting in a $1.75 billion fine that you say i was responsible to . scott: i thought about what could i have done better? what can i do better? i could've hired more auditors and i wish i would have done that. but let's remember that i said i'm responsible for that.

charlie is not responsible for 832,000 jobs lost, raising taxes $2.2 million area raising tuition when he said he was against all those things and when we elected him saying that he was a ronald reagan republican and then he did just the opposite. he will not respond to the fact that did he -- what charges did he appoint for the campaign contribution? crist: zero, zero. scott: what did he know that jim grewe was doing when he is committing fraud? even though he is a republican. >> he gave all of the money back, you are just wrong. scott: he didn't give all the money back. crist: we will see in the paper tomorrow. >> moderator: governor charlie crist, can you respond. crist: i'm ready for your question. i think we should move on. >> moderator: so the question is about the charge that he leveled against you. there have been a number of close associates of yours that

gone to prison. what does that say about your judgment? crist: well, you know, i don't have a crystal ball you can't always foresee what people are going to do in their future. i met people that later took a bad turn and it happens and it's unfortunate. it happened to jeb bush. he picked a secretary at the department of corrections that is now in federal prison. i mean, those things happen. you can't always foresee that someone might go back later on a and i know different than governor bush was in that scenario. >> moderator: let's move on. governor scott, reporters investigating the finances have found that federal documents appear to show that you have much more money tied up in family trusts that you have disclosed. why not do what the state constitution requires and file a quote on public disclosure of your financial interests. what i'm looking for here is what is the reason for your reel of runs to provide the information to the voters, of a state that prides itself on an open government. scott: i believe in open government.

that is what i have done. in 2010 when i ran i disclosed the assets. i did exactly what the grand jury suggested under charlie that i put my asset in a blind trust. why do you do that? so you don't know what you own to do if you don't have any assets you don't have a conflict. jeb bush did it, alex did it, and i did the same thing. but on top of that i disclosed everything in the blind trust and i also filed my tax returns, mine and also my wife's return. i have done that and charlie has not. charlie has not released his and his wife's tax return like jeb bush did, like alex sync did, like bill mcbride did and like i did. but i have disclosed everything and will continue to do so. crist: i have disclosed all of my tax returns and i think i have done so for the last 15 years. rick scott has not done that. he talks about the fact that my wife has not. that is true and we filed separately. and i believe in a woman's right

to choose. i'm going to protect her from that if that is what she wants. but i don't think that that is fair for governor scott to try to impose this to my wife great she is not running for anything or if very this is an election between you and me. >> moderator: this is an issue for most among the minds of florida voters. that is jobs and the economy. governor crist, more than 8000 jobs were lost -- 800,000 jobs were lost when you were governor. and now florida did have the second-highest job loss in the nation. are you saying that you are not to blame for any of the jobs lost when you were governor? crist: no, i do not think i was and i will tell you why. when i came in to office we were starting to experience a real estate all down and particular. we are in florida. we depend on real estate a lot in our state. i know the viewer is get that. what rick scott doesn't get is that even though he talks about

creating more than 600,000 jobs, i was not responsible for the global economic meltdown any more responsible than brick was for the national economic recovery. as someone who flies around in a private jet and live on a mansion on the ocean, it's hard to understand what people are suffering from. this is probably the most important thing that i will say tonight. the real difference in this race is that i understand what you are dealing with. i talk to people working two in three jobs every day out there. i am on your side and unfortunately rick scott is not. >> moderator: governor scott, do you want to respond? scott: well, first off charlie, you grew up with money. i grew up with families that struggle. i don't know my natural father. i lived in public housing and i know what it's like to watch a pair and lose the only family car that we have. i watched my parents struggle when my brother couldn't get health care. charlie, i didn't grow up with money and you did. you grew up with plenty of

money. you lost more jobs than any state but one. we have the second highest increase in unemployment in the country and a million homes were foreclosed upon. >> moderator: thank you, governor. let's go back now -- crist: may i respond quick? >> moderator: staying on the topic. crist: okay, great. in the gubernatorial debate you promised he you would create 700,000 new jobs, quote on top of what normal growth would be. economists expected that to be a million jobs. if you add that together it 1.7 million new jobs so far. as of today we looked at the numbers. 626,000 new jobs have been created, well short of your remark. so why aren't you meeting your own benchmark to . scott: sure. i ran on a campaign of seven steps to 700,000 jobs over seven years. we have 651,000 private sector

jobs so far. normal growth was so far, do you would lose 832,000 jobs. normal growth would be double that. normal growth at the time was unemployment going from 3.5 of 211.1%. so no more growth under charlie would be now unemployment at 18%. if you look at what the normal growth was when i took office, he was losing 800,000 jobs over four years. we've added 651,000 jobs and we have 261,000 job openings averaging those are the top 25 in demand is $27 per hour, $55,000 annual income and we're down to a little over 10,000 people of unemployment. so that is a state that is on a roll. crist: yes, there are 600,000 people that are still unemployed in florida. another 700,000 that are not on the job roles anymore. what i think is important is to

understand what they are dealing with and their challenges. we have to look at who we can support and why the two of us are running. i'm running to defend the middle class and i'm running to give you a chance. i always thought that rick scott is fighting for the big utility companies and the property insurance companies. that is whose side he's on and that is the difference in the race. scott: can i respond? >> moderator: yes, of course. scott: i think the truth is that he's never had to worry about money his whole life. he didn't have to worry about money like i did growing up. when you start a business wondering if you can make the payroll. charlie never did these things and he didn't have parents worried about putting food on the table or paying for health care. what i think about every day is i ran for governor for this reason. i want the state to be the place where any family from any country or zip code or whatever, you can live and dream. the dream is that you can get a great job and your children can get a great education so they can live the dream.

>> moderator: governor crist if you want to respond. crist: thank you, if that is so, then why doesn't the governor fight for the middle-class consumers that i meet every single day that are paying higher utility bills, insurance bills, property bills, they go higher and higher every year of his administration. and i was elected governor, called an emergency special session to reduce your property insurance bills and we did it. then i called another one to reduce property taxes and got it done. that is someone who is looking out for you and someone who is on your side. he is on the side of the big utility companies. scott: first of all, utility rates went up turning charlie and went down since i have been. crist: he is wrong. scott: you can go to saks reporter.com. you said they would drop like a rock. charlie, we have 48% when you were governor. third on property insurance.

you put the state at significant risk for each hurricane the average household would be responsible for $1800 of additional fees because of what you did to citizens. >> moderator: thank you, governor. would you like to respond? crist: yes, we haven't had a hurricane in eight years and your property insurance rates have gone through the roof. that is because rick scott is not letting the department of insurance regulate insurance. he signed a bill last year that said the department of insurance regulation cannot regulate insurance. does that make sense to anybody? it certainly doesn't make sense the people at home paying higher insurance rates because of your administration. >> moderator: both of you disagree on the minimum wage raise, which is currently in florida, $7.93 an hour. governor crist wants to raise it to $10.10 an hour. governor scott, you have said that you oppose raising the

minimum wage because you think he would be a job killer. verify this. do you support the principle of minimum wage to do you support the concept of minimum wage? scott: sure. >> moderator: what should it be? scott: how would i know -- i mean, the private sector decides wages. let's look at what actually happened. with charlie he said he wants to raise the minimum wage. that includes the budget office would lose 500,000 jobs. charlie lost 832,000 jobs when you were governor and how many more jobs can you lose? he can do anything he wants with the minimum wage. but actually under charlie the minimum wage was zero. he went 832,000 people that went from making money to zero. he should be known as the zero wage governor. i don't want to lose any more jobs. think about where we are. 261,000 job openings averaging come for the top 25 in demand is $27 per hour. that is how you get better wages. like lockheed martin, northrop

grumman and you have to realize that he never did this when he was governor. >> moderator: governor scott, if i could just drill down for a second. you said the support the concept of a minimum wage but then he said the private sector sets it. ..

and spend a little bit more and the economy benefits. >> moderator: some economists say raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour were cost 50,000 jobs in florida, 500,000 nationwide. we spoke with an orlando business owner and she said she done the math and the minimum wage was up to $10.10 an hour and she would have to lay off one of her employees. what's your message to one employee who would be laid off? crist: the reason i think so is because people deserve it. my wife pays her employees $10.10 an hour because she knows it's the right thing to do. how can someone get by on $7.93 an hour? as i said before i talk to people everyday that tell me they're having to work two and three jobs just to make ends meet. that's not an economy that's humming along. for somebody like rick scott and

you have a private jet and fly 30,000 feet above all the time or live in an oceanfront oceanfront mansion near the touch and you're not feeling what the people at home are we dealing. they i was the governor before and that was that property insurance companies. i will do it again and in 14 days to get the opportunity to make that change. motsek governor scott. scott: charlie just said that 50,000 individuals. he doesn't care. that one employee charlie doesn't care. the reasoning doesn't care as he's never experienced it. i watched a parent lose the only family car. i watched a father struggle to buy christmas presents and i went to that as a child. charlie grew up with plenty of money. he's never had to worry about money. charlie has done fine and what i'm going to fight for every day is what is in the last three years and nine months i'm going to fight for families.

crist: he talks about i've done fine in life. when i was a kid we lived in a small apartment in atlanta when my dad was going to medical school and he used to deliver newspapers to make ends meet. so you don't know me and you can't tell my story and i'm not going to tell yours but i know you are worth about 100 or $200 million today and god bless you for that wealth break but the way you got it was unsavory. the fekla you just don't relate to people, real people in florida today and the struggles they have and you won't lower utility rates. you won't lower property insurance, it's wrong. scott: charlie raised utility rates. they have come down since i was governor. we borrowed $9 billion. someone has to pay that off. when you took office life -- a family wanted to buy prepaid to send their child to university for $100 a month. four years later charlie it was

$250 a month. you can't afford your cause. >> moderator: we do have to take a quick break but when we come back the governors are not the only ones on the ballot. medical marijuana is as well. we'll get their take on that next. ♪ ♪ >> moderator: welcome back to debate high. we are in jacksonville florida for the final debate in this heated governor's race. we have a lot to cover so let's get back to our questions. as i mentioned before the break medical marijuana sauce on the ballot this november. governor scott you signed a law allowing a mild form of marijuana to be used by and suffering from cancer epilepsy

and als. we spoke with seth timon of western florida who says it's that great of marijuana almost certainly will not be enough for his 8-year-old daughter when her seizures cause her to stop reading. what is your message to seth? that says you're not giving his daughter real chance. scott: i want to make sure everybody gets the health care they need. anyone who has a built in illness i want to make sure you get that. we did that. we started this year with "charlotte's web." i think the right thing to do is to continue to go back through the legislative process and find treatments that work and let's make sure we get those two individuals all around our state but let's make sure they are things that are safe for your family. we were going through the "charlotte's web" this year and i wanted to make sure was safe for everybody. crist: i support the medical

marijuana amendment and the reason i do is i think it's a compassionate thing to do. my law partner john morgan has worked hard to get on the ballot and i commend him for that. i think it's important to have done so because he did it out of compassion for his brother, compassion for his father. i happen to have a sister a little over a year ago was diagnosed with brain cancer. thank god she is doing well. but if people like her will work to get into multiple sclerosis and they need something more powerful than oxycontin is a good alternative. >> moderator: governor there has been a lot of questions about the florida state football team specifically football players have gotten with crimes ranging from cart that's almost as if they are protected. you are proud of the two alumnus. you think this is a serious problem at fsu or as some boosters would have it is the media taking cheap shots? scott: i think it's a serious problem. whenever you have an allocation

of the types that we have seen you've got to take it seriously. i used to be the attorney general and i understand what justice means. you've got to approach in the fairway. they have got to make sure there is balance just like on the scales of justice. but this isn't just an issue at florida state university. it's an issue across our country. we have seen a lot of focus on it and i think that's a good thing. we have seen the stories out of the nfl. this is a problem america has and we have to address is in a serious way. we have to have law enforcement that addresses are properly and state attorneys or whoever might bring those charges to do a thorough check -- investigation and afford a perfectly. >> moderator: governor scott is fsu have a problem? scott: first of all every athlete every student is held to the highest standard so i think if their allegations they need to be reviewed. there shouldn't be different standards for anybody. anybody involved whether they are going to the schools or state attorneys everyone should

be held to the high standards. >> moderator: are they being held to the high standards? scott: was going on with the fsu issue is the state attorney reviewed it and decided not to proceed but it's going back through nagl. the process at fsu and they will go through that process and they will review it through the normal channels but every student is held to the high standards in the same standards. >> moderator: governor scott during your term as governor florida came second to only the state of texas in executions. quote as governor signs a lot of death warrants for whatever reason. i did not find a lot of them because i took it very seriously unquote. governor crist seems to be suggesting you don't think this process seriously what is your response? scott: the death penalty is a solemn duty. something that is difficult to do but these individuals have done heinous crimes. i think about the families and i

think about the victims and i review the cases and i'm very cautious. in that case but they have done heinous crimes. i have met with the victims families and it gives those families some you know conclusion to what's going on. i see them sometimes around the state in what i think a lot all the time is -- >> moderator: governor crist do you think governor scott doesn't take it seriously? crist: lessig at the pass. he has signed death warrants and i've signed death warrants as well as the most somber at the governor has to do as the governor. knowing your name is on a piece of paper and is going to result in the death of another human being and if that doesn't make you think seriously about what's happening nothing will. but just this past year in execution here in florida was delayed by the governors of the

attorney general could go forward and have a political fund-raiser. to me and my way of thinking that doesn't sound like somebody is taking bout solemn duty as seriously as they should. i don't understand that and i don't know what all the facts were. the only facts i do know is in execution was delayed because the attorney general of florida wanted to hold a political fund-raiser and that can't be delayed without the governor's consent. >> moderator: governor scott. scott: charlie said it. he doesn't know the facts. he doesn't know what i go through, the prayers i do. it's a solemn duty. what i think about are those victims. if you read the cases of what these individuals have done to those victims you won't feel good about doing it but it's my duty to do it as governor and i will continue to do it.

crist: i asked him a simple question. did the attorney general the attorney general asking to delay the execution so she could go forward with their political fund-raising? motsek you can answer that. scott: she asked me to delay it because it didn't work on the day she thought it was going to be on. she apologized. what would you like her to do? she apologized charlie. crist: answer the question. >> moderator: governor crist in discussing way left the republican party said the following. quote i couldn't be consistent with my core beliefs and say with a party that was unfriendly toward the african-american president. i was a republican and i saw the activism that they were doing. it was an intolerable to me" maxa clarify if you wait for florida voters are you saying there are so many races in the republican party you couldn't remain a republican? crist: i'm saying that element exists.

my mother and father were republicans. they don't have a racist bone in their body but what is at work here is a simple thing and if you remember back in 2008 in some of the e-mails that were distributed about the president by some members, not all of the republican party they weren't exactly flattering. i think you probably can research and find out what i'm talking about but it wasn't right. and i can tell you their reaction i had gotten from some in the republican party leadership was not tolerable. and it was pretty clear to me it wasn't just because i was wanting to work across the aisle with the democrats to get the recovery funds to come to florida. it was also apparent to me because he was the first african-american president. i don't enjoy saying that. it's not fun to say but i'm going to tell the truth and those are the facts. >> moderator: governor scott. scott: charlie you are a mudslinger. you are a divider. the entire time you're been in

politics what you have done is -- you are an advice -- a divider. we live in a wonderful stay. we are the best melting pot in the world. we have so many wonderful people here that come from all over the world and you want to try to divide it. i want everybody, i want everybody to have the same shot i had to live the american dream. crist: nothing could be further from the truth. i reached across the aisle when i was your governor. i worked with the president to get recovery funds. governor rick scott won't work with the president even to get high-speed rail which is so important as central florida and essentially the whole state. it would have meant $2.4 billion to florida and some say 60,000 jobs. he will not lift a finger to get medicaid expansion done and as a result the million floridians watching tonight aren't getting health care today as a result of that inaction on rick scott part

plus would bring 120,000 jobs. >> moderator: would you like to respond to that? scott: first off charlie, he left me with a $3.6 billion budget deficit. he borrowed $9 billion. you borrowed everything it could and then you left a private donor table that would have cost billions of dollars and you want to talk about medicaid, your governor -- you were governor. why didn't you expand it right then? i actually have worked with the federal government. as an example something you wouldn't do, we settled the decades-old lawsuit over the everglades. >> moderator: governor crist. crist: governor scott doesn't work with the administration. he asked for their help when we had a crisis like a bowl and that's the right thing to do but you know when we are offered 60,000 jobs in high-speed rail, $120,000 -- jobs and medicare expansion governor scott says

no. he is all talk and no action as a result those tens of thousands of floridians i would have a job today and are stalled economy rick aren't getting the employment that they need. that's just not right. you are not on their side and i am. >> moderator: governor. scott: charlie heuer the last that should be talking about jobs. you lost 832,000 jobs. charlie government does not create jobs. you can talk all you want but you didn't take action to help create jobs. you would work with economic development. we have won 400 competitive projects with companies like hertz and lockheed-martin and northrop-grumman to to move or expand here. you would never have given back any those phonecalls. >> moderator: let's talk about the jobs program. what governor scott says is i will guarantee $266 million for corporations outside of florida to come to florida for jobs that are promised.

the "tampa bay times" and the "miami herald" did a great piece and found only 4% of the jobs promised actually were created. that's a 96% failure on your jobs program. what would i duke because you deserve to know. in two weeks you have got to decide that i would invest it in small businesses here in florida. go to fair shot florida.com our web site that talks about her plan. >> moderator: thank you governor. i'd like to move move on if i could that i want to ask a question about the 2012 -- scott: may i explain? ge said they would have 500 jobs that we didn't budget with them. it was a competitive bid and buy one. charlie you don't add jobs in one day and we don't give them the money until the end of the jobs that were not out the money until then. charlie you have this job. why didn't you do all these great things you're talking about because you sure talk that you take no action.

>> moderator: thank you very much. crist: i was serving during the global economic -- in the economy in florida was starting to come back when you came into office because of the policies i had like accepting the recovery money from bethesda. that kept us from having to fire 20,000 schoolteachers. those are real jobs in the matters to them so i am action and i got things done and i will do it again and i will work with anybody republican democrat or independent that will bring jobs here and you won't. >> moderator: i would like to move on if i could governor scott. i would like to talk about the 2012 shooting of trayvon martin. issues we have seen time and again perhaps most recently and notably in ferguson missouri. this is a larger issue that i see coming up in these issues governor scott and it's a simple yes or no question. do you believe african-americans

especially young african-american men, do you think that they get a fair shake in the criminal justice system? scott: i can tell you about the trayvon martin case. >> moderator: you said your goal is but do they and what you doing to get there if you want to be there? scott: first of all and trayvon martin case i sat down with sabrina the mom and tracy the dead. i introduced them directly to the individuals at the florida department of law enforcement that would do the investigation and i told them in person i was going to bring in a special prosecutor to make sure justice was heard. so i'm going to do everything i can to make sure in every case like that the right thing happens. here's what we have done. we have completely changed how we do criminal justice. we have had a dramatic drop in the number of arrests since i was elected. we at the lowest recidivism out of our prison system because we have put in a re-entry program and we have helped make sure if you've got out of prison you get

a job and you can get a job today unlike under charlie when he couldn't get a job. are we making progress? yes. is there more work to do? absolutely. >> moderator: we combat the one issue that people say the next governor of florida must deal with is coming up. >> moderator: make -- two weeks from election night this is the final debate in the race for governor being broadcast on "cnn" and on "cnn" and a spaniel. go to bing.com "cnn." let's get back to the debate. governor crist he wanted to weigh in on that question i asked governor scott on whether specifically african-american young males get a fair shake from the system. crist: i don't think they do. i think it's sad that i think it's important everyone is

treated equally. as i said earlier tonight i used to service the attorney general and the file civil rights cases to make sure that all people were being treated fairly. one particular dealt dealt with a hotel in florida called the southern and where they were discriminating against african-american children swimming in the pool but the more important issue here is restoration of rights. when i was governor that brought restoration of rights that for nonviolent felons so they could have a chance to get a job. sadly under rick scott it's gone and has been gone for five years. you can even apply. scott: here's charlie's plan. commit a heinous plan and as soon as you get out of jail you get to vote. as soon as you walk out. you have intentional permanent disfigurement of a child, you walk out of jail and immediately get to vote. crist: you are lying again. scott: you can look up exactly

what you did and i completely disagree with that. crist: it's very unfair. i recommend he go to fair shot florida.com and able find out the truth. >> moderator: governor crist you support lifting the embargo against cuba and you say you like to travel after the election. governor scott calls the castro brother terrorists. would you be willing to meet with raul castro when you are in cuba? scott: i would not. let's talk about the embargo and a broader sense. the embargo has been in place for over 50 years and it has not worked. the intent of the embargo was to get rid of the castro brothers. they are still there so that is a flawed program that has worked and people on the island are still suffering. i have compassion and i care about people and i don't want to see them suffer. in addition if we were able to open up relations with the island of cuba and the cuban people learn from the dissidents

and gets better and cited what they are dealing with. god bless you. in addition have the opportunity to every development on the island. the natural launching pad for all that redevelopment if we can move forward is the state of florida and that would help florida's economy and would help our hemisphere and hopefully bring more freedom. >> moderator: governor scott i want to ask you a question. crist: the only thing that is change with regard to the castro brothers is charlie's position. they are terrorists. there is no democracy there and there are human rights violations. they are part of the madiera regime where they are killing peaceful protesters. i wouldn't be mingling with the castro brothers. do not in the embargo long-term have democracy.

>> will want to take a question from facebook regarding immigration and specifically driver driver's licenses. governor crist we can start with you. carla from north miami beach florida asks do you support giving driver's licenses regardless of legal status, not just a dreamer's? crist: it's important. i am the grandson of the great democrat. my grandfather came to this country when he was 14 years old and didn't have any money. they had a dream of coming to a place called america that would give him a chance. he fought in world war i and was honorably discharged and he gained his citizenship. he was able to get a driver's license. young people today should be able to get a driver's license but my running mate is an immigrant herself from colombia. we are a nation of immigrants in the florida is a shining example of how promising that diversity can be. we need to do everything we can to move immigration comprehensive immigration reform

forward and if elected governor i would encourage congress and our senators to work with the administration to get that done. >> moderator: governor scott. scott: this is why were having this conversation. the prisons are filled and he has a were to get immigration reform them. now we have a humanitarian crisis on our border where we have unaccompanied minors coming across the border. we need to have comprehensive immigration reform. we need to have immigration reform or we haven't. we have people immigrating to this country. if you want to come to this country know how to emigrate and if you are sure you know what the rules are but the reason we have been having these conversations is because the president has failed. he needs a policy that works. >> moderator: let me ask is a follow-up response. saying on the same subject on immigration reform you have raised senator rubio for his efforts and immigration reform. one clarification i think the voters of florida would appreciate. do you support the part of

senator rubio's bill that would provide a path to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants in this country? specifically that part. scott: i crochet with senator rubio tried. he tried to get comprehensive immigration reform done but i don't think you can talk about this in pieces. you have to take the whole package and the president has failed it. he hasn't done it. he is a work with congress. he is a secure their borders and by not securing our borders and makes it difficult to get anything done because americans, the first thing they want with regard to immigration a secure borders and then i want to have a comprehensive policy in he won't do it. >> moderator: do you support the path to citizenship in the bill? allan fung i want a comprehensive package done. >> moderator: do you support that if it's part of the comprehensive bill? crist: i supported and it's not that the hasn't tried to move forward on this issue.

there are a lot of components. there are three branches as a matter of fact and the congress particularly the house of representatives has not been particularly helpful in helping the administration try to move forward so to blame it on the administration is disingenuous. that's just not true. let's talk about where rick scott was on immigration when he ran for governor last time. he wanted to bring about an arizona style wall and florida were law enforcement officers were able to pull people over because of you know maybe they looked wrong but that's just not right. scott: i believe in legal immigration and the rule of law but let's look at what i did do the charlie said was the wrong thing to do. if you live in our state you should -- [inaudible] charlie said when the legislature didn't pass before that they do the right thing so charlie was against that but we did the right thing. whatever country you grew up in if you live in florida yet have the same rights as your peers. crist: but now you won't get a

driver's license. >> moderator: governor scott one other subject. scientists in the state are concerned about it and people that live near the beach are concerned about climate change. whenever you asked about whether or not climate changes caused by man in part or whole you say you are not a scientist that you are governor. doctors advise you on ebola and economists advise you on the economy. why are you so reluctant to believe the overwhelming majority o of scientists is a mn contributes to climate change? scott: here's what we have done. we have spent $350 million in dealing with sea level rise in the keys. or down in the miami area. we have spent $100 million on the coral reefs. we did a historic settlement over the everglades and put a start money door springs. despite these problems, charlie is going to talk about -- look you will have climate change

global warming conferences in and then did nothing. he didn't put money in or do anything to settle the lawsuit over the everglades. he didn't put money into make sure our springs were protected that he will have a nice conference and talk a big game. under charlie nothing will happen. >> moderator: governor crist. crist: i believe in climate change and global warming and i think man plays a significant part in that. we did have conferences but i signed executive orders wreck the nature of which you have never signed to cut emissions. why do i believe is important to do that? i believe i'm renewable energy. i believe in clean energy like solar and wind. these are the kinds of things that i think are important set of continuing to be addicted to gasoline at the pump. that is who helped fund her campaign but those are the people i'm looking out for. i'm looking out for the people at home. we need to have more solar energy. >> moderator: we have to take a break that will make him back a question from a voter.

>> welcome back to the final debate in the race for governor of florida. we only have a little time left so let me proceed right to this final question from facebook from susan mclain maxwell. she writes i would like each of the candidates to tell us one thing they wish florida would give them a do-over on. governor scott what you want to do over? scott: the biggest thing, i've called on companies for almost four years now and i wish there were more hours a in a day. i love traveling the state. my wife and i got every county. it's just really time. >> moderator: governor crist a do-over. crist: for me it's obvious, the opportunity to serve you again as your governor. i love florida and i want to make sure we have a florida where we look out for the middle class and support small business the mom and pops around the state where we protect our

environment make sure we are doing the kinds of things floridians want and need and deserve better education not cutting or education budget would adding to it the way was when i was your governor before. two weeks from now you will make that vote and i hope to earn your vote. >> moderator: thank you governor. we had over 170,000 on line foes tonight and the results can be seen at thing.com/"cnn." governor scott in governor crist thank you and thank thank you anchor kent justice and our "cnn" affiliates across florida. i'm jake tapper and i hope to see you again election night on "cnn" in two weeks. have a great night and of course remember to vote. ♪

[inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon everybody. welcome to the american enterprise institute. we are happy to have you. as we talk about sort of backwater issues no one is really talking about hasn't gripped the public consciousness. today we are here to talk about the common core an issue that

has an incredible amount of salience in the news media and politics and we have three outstanding panelists to discu discuss. kaplan who is a veteran education reporter and assistant editor for education week. she co-authors with eric groveland the blog curriculum matters and if you want to get up to speed on the common core and particularly how the common core is played out and classrooms across the country catherine and eric's reporting has been with some of the best and we are lucky to have her today to share her thoughts. next are of course often imitated never duplicated and i would be rick hess director director of education policy here at aei. the coeditor of common core meets education reform what it all means for politics, policy politics in the future schooling. he participated in the intelligence debate on the topic

embrace the common core and took the negative position and he is a new piece leaving the fall issue of national affairs entitled how the common core went wrong. next to him we have chris up for the executive director of the nationwide nonpartisan membership organization of state superintendents of education. in 2009 he was the strategic initiative director of standards assessment and accountability where he led the development and adoption of a common core and 45 states and the district of columbia. in august panel and we are going to forgo the usual speechmaking and talking points that begin these confabs often. i want to jump right into the issues. i would like to actually start with the laying of the land. i think catherine you might be the best to give us an overview so we are hearing all across the country that schools and districts are implementing common core. what does that mean?

what are school districts doing differently this year that they weren't doing last year? >> i wish there was a uniform answer for the whole country. >> it would make all of our jobs easier. >> things being what they are i feel districts and schools all over the place, you have some that haven't done a whole lot and are still getting a sense of what it is they are supposed to do that's different and you have at the other edge districts plunging in on the leading edge and making change. as you know i spend eight months hanging around the district of columbia watching what they were doing and top to bottom thorough changes. so it varies. we have a lot of leading-edge projects that are coming from grassroots levels. i think washington and nevada have been highlighted for efforts from teachers. our state isn't really helping

us much. we gargling to create resources. it's really all over the place in the studies show the center for education report last week just showed a full one third of the districts are behind on some of the pieces that are going to make this work. they are putting things into practice but there's a lot of us. >> i want to read for those of you that are following at home on the livestream are joining us on c-span the conversation is also taking place on twitter with the hashtag what's in al-sisi? after we talk up here i will give questions to the audience as well as those coming in. i have my handy phone here so feel free to tweak the questions either timmy at mq underscore mcshane or what's in al-sisi and i will do my best to follow along while we are talking. chris a lot of the preparation

that is taking place that catherine is talking about is to get in line for these new tests that are being rolled out so that toupee consortium and using the great map that catherine and andrew have compiled. one of the large consortium of 17 states participating. park is the other large consortium has nine states plus the district of columbia in 17 states are doing their own thing and seven are rated as undecided. i question to you with how do you leave this fragmenting tests going? >> thanks and thank you for inviting me to be here and for your coverage. obviously you are into the details of this. you know we had said in 2010 that we would have 26 states participating in working together on assessments no one would have predicted that.

we had 50 states each writing their own test and so i think 26 is real progress. granted there've been some states that have stepped away from the contortions i think there are number of reasons why. first the federal involvement in this has been not helpful in every scenario that we have been following. so you see any sort of push background testing has usually been rooted in the fact that the federal government was involved in funding the consortia and that putting incentives for common core standards. i think in the end we will see the group of states, most of the states have decided to give the test so i don't see a lot of more eroding of the 26 we have now. there's one big thing we have to figure out if they are going to stick together on what the test scores look like. both consortia's are committed to doing so but as they think

about about what their own assessment might look like how are we going to make sure they don't backslide on expectations. whether you call a common core or something else we know we need higher standards for kids in this country. how do we do that is the question and i think that is a question for us is how do we make sure the assessments are at the level that are different than what we were doing before. >> rick i would love to hear your response on this here read in the states choosing to peel off and go their own way. is that a positive development for the long-term health of the common core or is it a risk and how do you see that affecting it? >> it's a great question and let me join chris and saying i think catherine's work on this has been invaluable. one of the reasons i think we are where we are is because the common core felt like a surprise to huge numbers of americans in 2013. i remember catherine called me

probably late 2009 early 2010 during the rollout of the standards. i have blogged about for jobs in education. catherine was like you really don't care about this do you? i don't know what any of this means yet. i think most americans had little idea what common core meant until they started to hear relatively cocchiarella characterizations one way or the other. i think that's how we got here and i think catherine and ed have dinner with her markell j job. a couple of things. one i agree wholeheartedly with chris that i'm for higher standards. i don't know anybody who's against higher standards. i think a big part of the question is how confident we should be that the common core standards are higher. for me as i have written i don't have a problem with common core standards. i am unpersuaded that they are

higher and better especially in practice and i am concerned that some of the stuff that goes along with common core like the affinity for close reading, like this commitment to -- i'm not sure some of the advocates understand this as well as they think they do or what it means in practice. i personally would like to have time to see how it shakes out before i know that this is a train we are all jumping on. for that reason i think the number of states edging away from the common core is probably a good thing. personally i think to chris' point the federal government has never waded into this back in 2009. i think 15 states a dozen dozen states may be 20 but about 15 states probably would have done, and core on their own. i think they would have figured out a way to do a common assessments like it been done in new england for several years at that point among three states and i think what we would have

seen is they truly and genuine genuinely -- that effort and if it was being implemented while other states would have wanted them. unfortunately i think that's not what we are looking at an obviously it's washington so it's fun to spend a lot of time arguing about how we got here and i'm happy to do that. i think also some of what we are talking about today is what are the strategies for moving forward constructively given that this is where we have 10 -- happen to be sitting in 2014. >> chris you and rick agree on this idea that the federal government caused a lot of the problem for this. do you see an appetite on the behalf of common core supporters to push back more vigorously against the federal government to take a more proactive you all need to stay out of this and want to handle this ourselves? >> i think it's pretty clear that most of us, i mean i can't

say all of us but most of us believe declaring our independence in making sure that it is and remains to be -- is critical so figuring out how as governors we step into this space. i think the harder part is we just don't have -- at the fund-raising issue in the anti-side and there's no fund-raising on the pro-side. granted there are resources on both sides but the anti-protest that passion and money and it's going to be a hard road to change the branding of common core. i think the bigger thing is figuring out how do we lantis so educators who believe in these and i disagree. i just think the shift in the common core are based in research and are also based on what teachers tell us they want to do. they have already been -- began

doing it with their kids. i can grant you there was no common 2010 there wasn't the intention as in 2014 but you still look at it despite all of the negative attention, and core is received. teachers are pulling positive when it comes to common course of their something about the standards that are worth holding onto. that's the piece that rick and i disagree on. i think the bigger thing is how do we lantis thing so that teachers are able to teach to the entire standard and we have kids graduating a higher rate if that if you look at the early results out of kentucky we are making progress with the kids and we can debate all but one in washington about whether or not this is a good thing. more kids are ready to go to college. markets are ready to do what they want to do next in their lives. this is important. that's the stuff i don't want to lose. i can lose all the other stuff but i don't want to lose.

>> one thing i'm interested in doing as we talked about the vague terms are generalizing. take a couple of minutes and drill down some of the sticking points and understand what's happening. the first issue that united people both on the political left and the political right was the -- so maybe catherine is this something in your time in schools and districts talking to parents and teachers and others how big of a concern was that for those folks on the ground level versus mordecai larger political conversation taking place? >> i'm not the best person to ask simply because we have reporters focusing on that but it's a concern. i will put that another way though. that goes right to what i was hoping to get a chance to say. this whole debate reminds me of when you go swimming and hear the noise above as soon as you

get under the water is quiet. where i've gone this is not the stuff people are talking about. the stuff people are talking about is can i find instructional resources for common core and how do i figure out what that means? can i we urbanized my district to figure out what good tv looks like? is my district reorganized and that's the stuff i've been hearing about. when i, but the water and come back that hasn't been what i've heard from schools. clearly they're aware of the pressure. the superintendent survey in the district there is a much higher response and i feel more backlash from outside of the district then i did years ago. in terms of doing the work that's what people are talking about when i'm out there. i don't know about data privacy and the school so much. >> i think there's an interesting dynamic here which

is i think catherine's take away would apply pretty much across-the-board from a talk about special education, would we talk about federal grant requirements. when you talk to educators, talk to leaders who don't generally hear a lot of grumbling about this. what you generally hear is people just trying to figure out how this stuff works and when it comes to something like federal grant requirements in title i or when it comes to questions about iaea oftentimes what we do is we create unhelpful framework and educator spend all their time trying to comply. i totally buy that educators are out there and this is what you hear. i was in mississippi yesterday. they're busy working on the implementation of common core but certainly for me and i think this is kind of a good-faith difference where i think we the people should be able to argue about it in a way that we haven't much is when i look back, and core standards, they are fine.

they are not that different to be honest from what a lot of states have one paper at the time but there's also a lot of stuff that goes along with common core. some, gore advocates talk about how common core is actually smuggling and content because there's a 57 work little appendage they are that my good friends at fordham are very enthused about. ..

>> how do we actually have deep commitment to doing it well, let them try and let others of us trying to stay on the sideline and see what it is actually works out. >> is there a way to do that? >> no, there's nothing that gives force as you know. we're going state by state. there's nothing reinforcing the state to stay in the common core. and i always get chastised when i say something about the adoption of standards. but there's not nothing preventing states from rewriting the common core and doing what they want to do with it. i think this narrative about what is in the standard and what is not, of course we want kids

to do well. it doesn't mean that they can read epa manuals at the same time. we want kids to be reading a lot of books and have higher education standards and i don't disagree with the goals that we are trying to accomplish. and there hasn't been a process with the massive amount of input that we had to write this. i think that we have written a better set of standards in any state has had. and i think that we disagree about that. >> another issue, and catherine touched about this. for those on the right side of the political spectrum, one attractive feature is the idea of a nationwide marketplace for instructional materials rather than just having a textbook market. they might be able to access this and so catherine, i'm wondering if you could talk

about these issues that schools have faced in trying to get good common core and instruction and have there been challenges and how are folks finding this? >> you know, everything that we here with few exceptions. the publishing world as we have known until now has not done a stellar job of making these changes in its materials whether physical or visual materials. there are some things that are promising, but i think if there had been really deep input and we talk about deep input. teacher organizations are trying to get input now that they didn't get before and that speaks for itself very but i figure there think that there are materials being created at the grassroots level. teachers and smaller publishers.

that is one of the most universal and consistent complaints that we here in our reporting. so it's really not much different than it was before the common core. and so it seems that there is a strong incentive to take the same product that they have always had and slapped it just as they had before. but are there efforts that are at work to try and do something about that and help states sort through all of the options that are out there? >> there was one organization that is brand-new, they are beginning to look at the alignment of the materials in this is overdue. and i don't think that we should do anything but acknowledge the fact that we have been slow to provide teachers with what they need to teach these families. and i think that we have to then start from that point and move

forward. katherine's reporting has been very consistent on this and it's not just her that has been us. when i go into this goals, teachers are saying where is the stuff he sees different standards. so you cannot say that the standards are not that much different and say that we need different materials to teach these standards. and so we also need better materials and that is something that we should acknowledge as part of the transition to the standards and we will have to get better materials as teachers. >> that's great. and this takes us in a good direction. at some point in the near future, the rubber is going to hit the road and it will be administered and consequences will be attached. having heard all of this, looking forward, where is this headed? as schools and teachers are held accountable for these new standards with the new tests, there's concern so they don't

have the necessary material and it seems like a lot of stuff going into the meat grinder. have you see that pan out to . >> one of the simple truths for me instead if my employer tells me that they want to do more to hold me accountable for my performance, that is reasonable. and if my employer tells me that they want to change the way that they measure, whether i'm doing a good job, that is reasonable. i don't have a problem with that. if my employer tells me simultaneously they want to change the way that they measure whether i'm good at my job and that they want to or ringing consequences to bear, that makes me feel like someone has put a target on my back. unfortunately that has been the way that evaluation has played out along with common core. what you have seen them play most explicitly in new york state and you've seen this in a lot of places, frankly this takes us back is federally induced timelines, through race

to the top and in other waivers, what we wound up with were federal political timelines for the rate at which stage should be making the transition to common core and the way that they should transition to test-based teacher at valuation. these two things have been conflated in a way that strikes me as unproductive area the way forward again and it is not talk of -- not talk of blanket, you know. hold out periods of this everywhere. but i think that accountable public officials in state and districts ought to be making decisions about how they will serve well. there are some state that are enthusiastic about common core that seem to be doing it well and they have the educators on board and they ought to go ahead and move forward on new teacher evaluation on a way that makes sense. there are other states that are being dragged kicking and screaming to this stuff.

and i don't understand why we imagine it is good for kids and teachers to try to force this march on washington. and so i think for me a really simple place to start is by recognizing that when you are doing and when you are trying to change the way you evaluate performance and change the consequences to performance, there are timelines that are based on pragmatic considerations and political considerations and i think we have spent too much time working on political timelines. >> chris, one response to this has been the ability to push back the consequences for the timelines in which states have to start using this. are we expecting to see more of that in the future? you think that that has been a productive strategy or do we need to rethink the way that we readjusts these timelines?

and how we do this? how do we set these timelines? well, we are here to talk about the common core. it's very tough to separate these issues. but the teacher valuation largely of what was said, i think that states and states governors need to decide where they should go. it needs to be in the hands of the states because quite frankly the scenarios are so different from state to state and so i think that a single federal timeline was always hard. but i do think that we have seen real commitment from state about stepping into this and we hear the most from the states that are having the hardest time with this and there are a lot of states that are moving forward in a positive way around, how we are evaluating and helping teachers get better. that is the bigger thing. i don't care to much about the evaluations i but i do care about teachers getting better feedback on how they are doing.

so i was hopeful that that whole initiative would land them on spot and not the spot where we can use the example of that rick has used. i don't see the evaluation being taken off from a but i do think that states and districts are going to have to understand that this is not the federal government. >> your experience in schools and districts as the sort of landscape changes underneath teachers, do they see themselves -- i guess one question is do they feel that they are part of the process? do they see the goalpost moved? are they seeing this transition and they are more valid assessments and how are they responding to all of this taking place at once? >> i think that they are trying to figure out how to do a good job and they're feeling very frustrated. >> we have kids showing up on monday. >> as i said, a lot of my time has been spent in the district.

and i think teachers are pretty excited about what is in the standard. some are feeling overwhelmed especially with timetables. and there was this taking timeclock. always looking at the clock on the wall. and they are dealing with all kinds of challenges and this coming from every which way on the opportunity to learn spectrum. and that is the huge missing piece that i keep talking about when we talk to schools and teachers. that we have the standards, but maybe we don't have construction material. very little strategy or support or understanding for how to deal with kids who have the greatest need. those that have the greatest distance to go before getting standards that are envisioned. >> absolutely. >> there is an interesting story today in my google alert for the

common core, it fills my inbox every morning with interesting things. a story by daniel dillinger in new orleans this morning. it caught my eye because the headline was in first common core year, louisiana public schools grade improved slightly. well, a a lot of the narrative around us is that when we increased the standard, we should expect to see larger and larger number of students fail to meet this new definition of proficiency. and so secretary duncan kind of got in trouble as to what the implementations might be. but as i read into the standard one of the things i felt was interesting, is how could this be -- it says that the grading of the tests, lessens the impact of the new standard. john white of the u.s. department of education, acknowledge that the questions were tougher this year and the grading was easier. students have to get fewer items right to get the passing mark a

basic than they did in 2013. in your comments you said that you want to be on guard against this backsliding and lowering standards. but in these timelines are talking about, a reasonable response would be, well, if we can't bump this back, we just make this easier. what does that pretend for that moving forward? >> well, we would have a repeat of what happened with no child left behind. states are allowed to set their own standards and we saw what happened. so we have to guard against that and i think there's a number ways of ways to do it. the first one is to make sure that as states are thinking about setting a common performance standard across this, that that is a really important part of it. if the state decides on a different direction than we have to really be thinking about what that means for their kids. but their kids are unable to achieve the same level as the others in that group.

so i don't see that with the states are working together but the individual states are giving their own assessments are letting us work. we will have to continue to work with them and i see a different attitude about the new assessment than i did five years ago. five years ago the states were trying to do it as cheap as possible and i think states are recognizing that they need a higher quality set of assessments in order to grate against us and i do think that the consequences need to be looked at in every state individually. and there should be a one-year delay on consequences and kentucky's. >> are doing fine come, everyone is working together, but their other states that probably need these tests rule out before there are consequences. this should not be a single conversation. >> i would also highlight earlier this week there was a

libertad line that read andrew cuomo concedes defeat in the common core wars. i guess he put out an advertisement that has the quote that we won't use common court test scores for at least five years and then only if our children are ready. but i'm wondering about sort of changing this. because it seems like states like kentucky that we have highlighted have sort of let the fight, which had to be tough politically in a lot of places to total line for these high standards. when these laggard states don't live up to their standards. so are you sort of cutting the knees out from the folks have been making the tough decision to toe the line? >> sure, and in fact kentucky superintendence, one of the more outspoken leaders in the organization, he said wait a minute, all of these national things are making it harder for them to keep doing what they were doing. so absolutely, by trying to drag everybody along on the common core train, instead of letting

the 15 states are 20 states that one at u.s., what has happened is you have those guys in first class and then you have another two dozen states getting tracked long coach and they are kicking and screaming and the noise is effective and it's honestly making us more controversial than the states that want to do it. let's also be clear that part of the problem is that by making it something that everybody should do instead of a true coalition of states that are excited about it, you have wound up with all kinds of design complications and one of the reasons that we supposedly needed this common core was because we had all of the gameplaying in the no child left behind. were states would take tests and nobody was getting good accurate readings on how the kids were doing. well, that is fine. the solution to that is what you

really want is a test that folks can't finagle. there is testing windows, for instance. it's a recommends to state something like a 60 day testing window. this is because they regard different times and so if you're going to test folks at a 5% coming from flexibility. and there's also a long and proud tradition when it comes to testing of school districts pushing back this to the testing window because that means at their kids get a lot of extra days of instruction and their schools look good. so the way you would combat this is make a condition of joining us testing consortium, but you don't get this with the testing window that they are going to look at the master schedules and work with them and this is one that you're going to test. that wasn't part of because are trying to get as many as possible to play. part of what you would want is an agreement to we will judge whether kids are passing or not and you only get to be part of this if you actually agree to

abide by these. that was never part of that commitment. and the goal was to get as many guys as possible. part of the problem with treating common core is something that we want everyone to do rather than as an activity that would be led by states that we are passionate about. we have one wound up optimizing the way that the test generate the results. personally i fairly despond on us and i strongly suspect that in more it 70 or 80% of states, it will feel in 2018 exactly like it filled in before. >> i just think i can't contain myself. okay, so first off -- i could not disagree more about the testing window thing. i can give you a better example of something. but i think that -- i think that

the states started different times and are trying to test on technology and i think that this is the only decision that they can make is to give people a lot of time to take these tests. of course people are going to push it as far along as they can with the testing window and i don't think about is a problem, i think that we can work it out. i would add that i think that the bigger question is whether or not states will stick together on this in terms of at the end of the day giving these tests, getting these results, are we going to show is a country, we're going to have a more fair benchmark across the country with 26 states work together on these tests. i think that's a real positive. and in the end the common core was never built for 50 states. and so we never encouraged the 50 states. so other states coming along kicking and screaming, i don't know of any that really want that they can't get their

legislature to pass out. and we had 45 states to start with and we have to states back out and we have 43 still. what is the deal maximally states kicking and screaming, there's only two left. so i don't understand. >> one thing, it seems that you're highlighting a catch-22 here that in order to maximize -- if you want more people to because of you and some things you have to lower the requirements of what it takes to get in. but the whole point of being in it is that you hold each other accountable to keep high expectations for this. so i'm wondering how you would respond to that. so if you need people to be in these to hold themselves accountable and you worry about backslapping outsider back, how do you navigate back? >> that is the question that i would rather debate. how are we going to put systems in place to make sure that when we get to this that states are still in this game.

and that is what i want to hit on. one of the structures that can put in place, what are the policies that we can act as a group and not federal, but states working together, to make sure that in the long run consortiums are successful. quite frankly getting a better test for kids is what is going to push a across the goal line. because we have, you know, were asking what is going to be different in 2018. if the test are not different than will have a problem. >> okay, so the challenge is, all right, what are some constructive alternatives on what to do? i would love to hear, if any, just how any of this strike you if you feel like weighing in on it. one for instances that i would like to see the consortia layout nonnegotiable equipment. if you're going to be a consortium member they have to agree that they will look at

start aides and they will tighten the windows for specific states. find these windows and then they will have a given state that should be much more tighter. that is something that the governing board should agree to and you should play by those rules. they should have a mandatory scoring schedule and it should be mandatory and not something that you can be a member of and still opt in or opt out of. we don't know yet how translatable the results are from the computer assessment and taking a paper and pencil. they are looking at this based on the spring results and i suspect that they will have some issues with that. i would like to states with higher to use whatever translation we settle upon. so for me, for instance, i think the point is that i want to see if you're going to be part of a consortium to incher integrity. i want that to mean something. and i suspect that that probably

means to some that that is not quite for us. but for me that is a good result. so catherine, i would like to hear your response to that. if there are these more stringent things that folks have to agree to be part of that, how does that trickle-down school into the teacher? >> i'm not sure that i have the ability to answer that. i do think that it is situational and it will be different district to district. but it does occur to me that even though it might not feel like a mandate from washington in the current environment, what would that feel like. one more thing handed down that states need to do. when chris talked about the common core that there could be a state that wanted to get out but they can't. there are things like this like race to the top and they make certain agreements and we have are the scene with the u.s.

department of education did in revoking one waiver because the thing was not up to snuff. clearly these things are operational and the environment is heavy with that. i don't know what will wireman with consortia would do. but it does seem to me that one of the questions about the test scores is what you going to do. and in other words you have to report them. there is power in having states within the consortia that have to publicly disclose what those look like grade then there is the question of what you attach to them. will that be her high school exit score and will you peg high school exit to the college readiness mark. because that is a whole different thing than saying we will take it differently. and the political part of that is that both things are different. what part of the higher education system will accept these for replacement? all of these things about what you do and not to mention

teacher evaluation. i feel it does have a lot more kind of hanging in the air and the question of the testing window. >> i think it's fair. part of the challenge here is that -- but if we have spent all this time and passion the last several years and over the next several years doing this, and we wind up with that states are going to administer the common core assessments in smart ways and that public officials are not going to fudge the results, that's pretty much where we were from 2001 until 2009. and i am not sure that any of this will have been worth it if all we are doing is lining up with tests that are written by the consortia rather than stay test. it seems to me for any of us to been worth all of the effort that what we want is, my answer on all of this is i don't want

the feds touching any of that. i want them to make decisions as they see fit on all of us. but for all this to have been worth while it seems to me that i won an idea that these results are going to be feeling much more like the sats were feel much more like the ap than they feel like the old state assessment for this. >> i would be interested in hearing your side. seems like they are calling for some sort of governing body that is not a federal government. so someone there that's going to do things like old people to account, are there efforts to create that? work is something to be done to create a body like that. >> not that i know of, but i agree. i think that making sure that the states that are in these two groups really want to be in

these two groups is really an essential part of that. i don't see any way that would come out on the other side states sort of giving us test and then saying they're okay with it and then not really being committed to sticking together as a group. i would agree with that. i don't know what this looks like a long long-term. i think that's an issue that we will have to resolve. running another set of standards would be very difficult at this point. and there would be a lot of controversy and i don't think that we would be able to get through that process, especially from washington dc. i do think that the states need to own these processes in their states. but working together, they are going to have to figure out how to update their standards as well. >> that brings us to an elephant in the room that we need to talk about which is politics. the politics of the common core, yeah, we were referencing it and

i want to bring it to the forefront here. there's a lot of conversation about this about the role that it might play in the midterm elections and there's another discussion to be had about what role the common core might play in 20s team. so rick, you publishes this morning in "the washington post." it's kind of an interesting study about just how much or how little people are actually talking about the common core. i'm wondering if you could share that and talk about that implication for the broader conversation. >> sure. it turns out that when you look at what the candidate individuals have set on their website, only three of the 35 democrats running for governor mentioned the common core. two supported it and one opposed it. only 10 of them mentioned the common core. neither they are opposed and one that they support it. frankly what is interesting is about half the republicans running for the u.s. senate mention the common core all

negatively. that you can actually do very much which makes it suggest that there's more noise the mic going on there. and so the bottom line is here that one reason this has been politicized as we talked about is we've gotten wrapped up in things that look very good to the reformed community than two dozen 91 president obama was pulling 65 or 70% and it looked less good to the community one president obama is much less popular. and so i think that -- of that is true of several elements that are wrapped up and can be a waste of time. so i think that one of the opportunities especially for folks that are, you know, as i have read in the debate last month, i'm not opposed to common core but i just want to see how these things shake out before we

jump on us as a nation. so for folks that are confident that it is the right way to go and that it's good for kids, i think one of the opportunities is how to use the bridge is from washington politics where it is an issue that a governor can address and name much more problem-solving and state centered fashion and partly i think the senator lamar alexander has offered about this. there's language in the statute that created the u.s. department of education, and there's language behind. it says the federal government won't touch critchlow more instruction and senator alexander has closed the door. let's just say the federal government will not touch anything and i think one of the real opportunities to chris alluded to was for folks that really embrace common core as a statewide initiative to stability jump on that train.

for them to be saying, look, this is the kind of language that everybody should be able to agree on, democrats and republicans, whatever has happened in the last five years has happened. but let's make it clear that whoever gets elected president in 2016, this is not something that is supposed to open the door for them to make decisions. and this includes how much of a role, if any, the federal government should have an approving state assessment because that opens a big door for the department of education whether or not they are behaving appropriately and my personal preference is not to have u.s. government whether or not this is the case. >> i would love to hear your thoughts. >> i haven't read compose well, it sounds interesting. and i would just say that my experience and what rick just said, there are is a lot of fervor in the media with a few

people in every state about the common core. the only actually start talking to people that are not actively involved in politics, there is a lower level of understanding of what the common core evenness. the polling that i have seen is that one in two people don't have an understanding of the common core and so half the country doesn't even know we are talking about here and there's a real opportunity for us to just turn explaining and as rick has said, sort of independence from the federal push on us would be very helpful for us. and granted there is a proper federal role in education as it should be wanted to make sure that states are not doing bad things to kids in terms of equal opportunity and things like that. but i think in this case and i think that rick is right that we have to make sure that it is clear that the states are the ones that made the decision that i have to keep owning them.

whatever we need to do to make sure that it's clear. >> okay, great. before i turn it over to the audience, feel free to send me questions. i want to ask to lightning round questions to all members of the panel. asking each of you to weigh in in turn, so what do you see as the biggest threat to the common core effort moving forward to so we will start with chris and move down the line. >> okay. i actually think the transition this year will be a big challenge, making sure that we are able to honestly tell kids how they are doing and then move that drew. can i have a second answer as well? >> absolutely. what we identified as the materials gap is a big challenge. >> i think an over exuberant advocate in the more folks like

chris talking about this, you know, addressing legitimate concerns and the better the prospects are, the more the folks say that this is awesome to raise any concerns. i think that that is just a recipe for people to say absolutely. >> the quality results of the tests. >> that's right, you took the lightning round quite literally on that one and i appreciate it. >> you must write about education. you have spent time in classrooms. more questions also, what does success look like? and what does winning look like? running a story 10 years from now and be education does these great retrospectives, looking back on a nation of risks and in order for her to include this sentence, the common core has been a success, what are the

types of things that would need to have that happen? in this way i think i can go in the reverse. so in order for you to write that article, what are the types of things that you would need to have seen? >> it will take longer to do that and i guess that it seems to me that from the district's perspective and not states in the political sense but educators in states and in districts, it seems to me that they would have to have some sort of evidence that kids were really doing better than i will throw this in just because of the kind of things i'm interested in, that the kids are the farthest behind have actually made the most progress and they are closer to going where they need to go and the opportunity gaps close, achievement by some standards of measurement, whatever that is, is better, college success rates

and in other words for mediation and other measures and it was actually making an impact on higher education because i think that often what gets forgotten in the debate is the original intent of this college and career readiness. and college readiness, that there's no impact or brian and what was that about. >> your time. >> i think that the outcome that was alluded to in terms of employer satisfaction and his performance in the postsecondary, i think that the second one is that that will be contingent and resolving some of these questions about what it means to teach the common core well. i get lots of e-mails from folks, including teachers that are frustrated about this. so we see some of the outrageous

stuff online and their there are other folks that say that that is crazy and not at all what the common core is trying to push. the stuff has to be resolved in a way that is not about this and frankly i'm not sure which way it will be at sorted for catherine to write that story has to get sorted out in ways that don't encourage obstruction. >> i agree with rick especially on the mathematics side and we have some work to do to help teachers talk about mathematics, and re-entered a set of backboards, and success, we were successful in a major way already. towards the idea kids need access to higher expectations. no matter what happens, it had a measure of success that is

largely the legacy of some others that came before me. in terms of equity working towards, and universities and colleges, and it needs to drop in states. more kids graduating with meaningful credentials, and post secondary training programs, and community college, dated points we are looking for. >> one to tackle to the lightning round, and the advocates were setting up the common core to fail, not such a high bar, secretary duncan, to pile on