fighting for our businesses, not just the right to support everyone else. black owned businesses. it's okay to say black and business in the same sentence. [applause] .. one in the whole country, you can find a broker.

that is not what i am talking about. life-insurance companies drilling now $10,000 funeral coverage, but that is it, and they are barely hanging on. the crumbling of our banks, i'm trying not to cry already. that is why you did it but no longer have a black bank in florida now. you do have one branch of a national black-owned bank in miami right down 79th street. this fact, unemployment in the black community was statistically in measurable in places like tulsa, sugar coat, jacksonville, our historic district. our unemployment was nationally lower than that of whites all the way through 1940. i bet you did not know that. back to the black families situated hundreds of millions of dollars an hour hotels, hospitals systems, grocery stores, dry cleaners

, bakers, hardware stores, department stores, shipping yards to my steel mills, farming regions, stock brokerages. it became clear, just like it was for our jewish friends and their struggle, people of color would be able to do whatever they want to find a future and culture in the community to prosper, realize and represent if we focused on our economics, not just our political empowerment. dr. king knew that. those who opposed him knew that. another fact, over 90 percent of the lynching of blacks that happened during reconstruction and it jim-crow were business owners, economic terrorism. and that area, but bond and then burned. crowds watched calling it negro barbecue. it is sad, but i have to start our conversation this

way with all this violent imagery and send horrifying facts to give you the context. i have to because so many believe that i woke up from a paradigm of vengeance and hate. it is love for those of entrepreneurs and towns, the history that they created that we so easily dismissed. the freedom fighters, every day revolutionaries, love for them fuels my passion and commitment to black businesses and neighborhoods now. so i am asking you to include them and those business owners and though families and communities on the terrorism and discrimination they endured and the picture of racism that so many escribe. include them in our conference today. envision them, think of them, embrace them, bring them into this pretty south florida date. think of them often because every abandoned storefront or lot, every barred up,

board of business on the west side of chicago is an affront to them. each time we dismiss every business owner from our community because of a bad experience when one or two folks we engaged a year ago, we dishonor them, both brave men who were paid for trying to keep the store. the tallest tower can crumble down if it is not rooted in solid ground. being a farseeing practicing man, he said your face is your. let down your bucket where you are. brother langston hughes and his ballot. your fifth place is here, and not a far. so let down your bucket where you are. that is how much we invest in ourselves to what children, neighborhood. a cadillac.

how much is in your bucket? that is how you impress me. that is where we are now after the struggle was an, terrorism, progress, prosperity. no. i think of our sister who is here today. she came to this conference for the first time ever just to support me. this sister did not know me from a bowl of soup two months ago, but she lives in south florida, knows of my story, and is a problem of color. the executive director of that national black mcdowell's our association command their national convention is in less than two weeks. she is the owner of 11 mcdonald's herself. she could not find a better place to be that today with us. [applause] i have here a plaque. i think of brenda and marie

and what i need to do to create 10,000 more because when they succeed america succeeds. so i put my bucket down. i poured into my bucket, wake up in the morning, brush my teeth. i think you, walgreens, for giving henry stewart and his family a chance to shine and the role models. i wake my grows up, get them going, have some coffee, gourmet coffee, local in chicago. he rests the beans himself in his state of the art plant on chicago's south side making custom blends and flavors just for me. my favorite is jamaican rum, second favre is sentiment. a tall, strong cup of coffee himself, a personal trainer, puts on a weekend fitness camp free for kids on the south side to help them learn about fitness and

health. now, i do not know how mr. folders looks, but now you can order the coffee on line. i prefer to pick mine up personally. i mean, you know, so i can see -- i mean, my children can see greg. [laughter] >> and see a strong, black business owner in their community. i walked over. a deacon at the church on the south side. his alarm company does the same thing as adt. you pay for monitoring and call service, same thing, 40 bucks a month. just joining with other business owners to buy and revamp a strip mall on the sell side to build a pharmacy, apparel. this is al i live my life. i am not some depressed

overworked activist. why should i set my bucket down? it is not as hard as you may think. that do not spend all my money in the community, i cannot. but i spend a lot. and then spend it with the local businesses and the mainstream businesses. please don't leave this out, mainstream businesses that do their part to enable my suppliers, franchises, media outlets, and vendors like mcdonald's does. here is the kicker. are you ready? i am still fly. my makeup is on point. big girl cosmetics. her business is on the south side of chicago, and she gives those girls a business to a dream of and believe it well so many think all they had in chicago are bullets a dodge. you can in power those grows on the south side because

the cosmetics are available at macy's. america succeeds when kiley russell succeeds. i am a revolutionary. i am setting my bucket down, and i am still fly. that is the message. my hair looks all right today, although y'all are killing me with this humidity the largest black woman dunned national hair care product company, an atlanta-based business. you don't have to be in atlanta. you can get their products on line or in walmart. my money is still safe, fbi see insured telling me to put my money. i have to put a little bit. the hard part is not finding the businesses. the hard part is getting my

other smart, strong, successful black women to make sure that they put a little money in a black- owned bank to try to make sure some of your money goes back into the community on a regular basis. that has been the hard part, getting major leaders to discuss this issue and openly proclaimed supporting black businesses right and necessary to our communities survival. that is our part but not today. i get a break because i am with the wocec, and we, by the time i am done with you come are going to align our buckets up and fill them up and set our buckets down for these children who need to see marie, brenda, bernadette to because they are right now limited by confining circumstances and a restricted reality that has relegated our girls, doomed them to an inferior education environment.

i do that over and over again, and i bring that here, especially for that little girl and the economically deprived places she comes from the tells her she is not could be enough to go to college, not good enough to be a congresswoman , on a successful law firm because she is black and destined to in intergenerational poverty . that is problematic and unfair and tells her she is not good enough and that their people are not good enough to build and maintain their families and businesses and neighborhoods that would support her if she did want to create or produce a hit television show. you can do it. you know what i'm talking about. where are you? you can do it. it is our little private joke. we have to do this. i did it. let me tell you about jordan

this precious little girl. i would not have gone anywhere near she lived, had it not been for our famous pledge. and south side, drugs, depression, opening a children's clothing store in that neighborhood come and she did with her mother, grandmother, and their grandfather. this story is called jordan's closet, not the children's place. if they did not have as much selection as j.c. penney, yet it is the most beautiful children's store i have never seen. great selection, great prices. sometimes we come not to shop but to visit because jordan was seven when my girls were three and four. she was like a big sister. on saturday evening jordan's mom would rent the space out and have tea parties and book clubs for a little girl

and on sunday her grandmother would host a charm school and teach at ticket to the girls in the community for free. what a gym, a perfect place to take my children and send my money. jordan's closet is gone. the business, the two-party, the revenue, the taxes for the school system, the hope that other businesses will come and occupy nearby store fronts. all of that is gone. so we can tell all day long to believe in herself and work hard and she can get whenever she wants, but she looks outside or on television and everything tells are different. businesses come and go all the time, mostly because we are not supporting them. we have got to show jordan, not just tell my daughter that they used to be able to go to the corner for ice cream or candy and see

someone who looked like them i don't want to tell them what we used to have or be able to do. why would i tell my daughter that they could have hit children's clothing store when the 1i took them to close down in less than a year? why would i do that? we cannot keep telling our kids to look backwards or read a book for inspiration. the same place that minded, watching my beautiful, industrious and intelligent people courageously stand in line, sharp and dignified, daring the people. i want my girls to see again, but not just at election time. i want them to see the lines for our businesses i want them to see that kind of solidarity in our community, but you are not excited

about that. i know. he should be so ready to serve a. give it all away on a silver platter. we have to shelve the youth and our world that the business owners are just as important and our communities as any leader, even the president. yes, i said it. we cannot keep depending upon figureheads but he's great commander love him. don't get me wrong. i have known him since 1995 and admire him. a very, very elitist conservative in what was cool. an officer in our association. i sat side by side with him on saturday and at church on sunday. i supported him when he held people off the street with the police profiling and predatory lenders. i helped him learn -- run

for illinois state office, when he tried to be a u.s. congressman the first time, with him when he decided to run for senate. i helped him win, i got to the buns, stickers, and signs. i will be sleeping in my obama pajamas tonight. our greatness is not in him but making sure that there is a community that can be depended upon for an essential victory like your businesses should be able to grocery stores were considered the largest category of black on the enterprise's. at the 21st century there were only 19 black owned grocery stores in the united states. now researchers at northwestern university could only find evidence of three to nine full-service grocery stores. there are 48 hispanic owned grocery chains.

it most of them have only pop up in the last 15 years panera have a shopping at that store, and able that growth, product stocked the shelves, giving jobs to back consumers like me and my community, businesses, employees to let children, and nothing is wrong with that. that is great for them. my only point is that we can do the same. with this also prove without a landmark year, in that study they approved, close to $1 trillion in buying power, maybe 3 percent goes back to the black community they have done all sorts of modeling plan they approved that if this part of the black community were to shift that spending from 3% to 10 percent, i could get you there overnight.

3 percent to 10%. everything would be done. everything would change. according to those researchers to make if we would do that that is directly with a local-owned businesses and spending, going to a separation. either way, if we were to get to that 10 percent all we could create 1 million jobs million jobs in america. [applause] of creative with money that we already have and spend and businesses that already exist. if you will not do it, think it is worth it to recreate the greatness that we already had. if you won't do it for me to my jordan, if you are not on fire about the opt into the to create 1 million american jobs, but do it to other prove all of those who disrespect us and the niacin

dismiss us. that me tell you, when asked about competition from black back -- black-owned firms police said, newsweek 1986 in the next couple of years blackout businesses will disappear the businesses will be sold to white companies, and he was right. stoically weighed, dark and lovely, motion, dark and natural, all of those brands are owned prior low round. i can tell you where it is not. it is not in gary, liberty city, baltimore it they're making a lot of great commercials, putting a lot of beautiful black people on the boxes, but guess what, they are not doing business with black businesses. they just added supplier

diversity to their mission statement in 2011. all of those years, all of those brands, all of those and no black input in the supply chain. last i checked they did have one new supplier working with them to use to work in corporate. we do have a french brother representing for the community i use to buy darken lovely, but then i learned this information and switched. that is hell i am a revolutionary. i used to come and now i don't i'm by so that i can fight to brothers because we still have them in the community. so let's unite let's do that . let's do that so that we can make mr. bonner ron.

let's unite to make gingrich the day that he said black businesses would not last, but people don't care about their community and do not understand economic power but. did you do that, or are they right? now that you know more, are the six hours still going to tell the whole story? our statistics telling the truth? are there right when they tell me, you can get this story on the front page of every newspaper in the world, get studies done by harvard, howard, what can happen if people were to practice. but they're going to come, eat some food, plan, cry, and go back home and do nothing. are they right? they cannot be right. they are not, are there to back a-not same black america verses what america or anyone else. i am just saying, we are america, too.

that is all i am saying. now you say it it feels good. say it again our hispanic brothers and sisters, jewish friends, asian friends say we are america. our ancestors and elders. every time each jet every one of them did america was made better. think about it like this, one of the things that barack obama taught me, every major latinity of every major tenet of our democracy, tell me if i'm wrong, every major tenant of our democracy, legal, the constitution, the right to a fair trial, the right to vote, a free-speech, agencies at the eeoc came out of the african-american struggle. we did so much. we created so much talk contributed so much of this wonderful country.

now we're at the bottom. you can help me with this. it is like when you course somebody for weeks, be a friend, take route, center flowers. you do all of that, and then the big day comes. defiantly get a ticket taker to the dance. everything he dreamed of. you get her something to drink, and then she goes to dance with someone else and leave you hanging. that reminds me of his brother. i need to find him and apologize because i think i did the exact same sing to him. let's not get that far in demonstrating our greatness and then let it all go. nothing is going to change because we have these events played it happens because you do something after the event. maybe he would have been in that video with me. and he was sweet and cute.

he had everything, but he did not step up. and now you, too, could step up. [laughter] abcaeight. one time look, and i know it is not easy. we are spending so much time building a power lives. but you do have time to look for my friends hot sauce. a think it is available at dixie belle. they employ 20 people that would not have jobs otherwise. how can i complain about our economic situation and not pack his hot sauce on my shelf now, am i the only one? we have choices and never once asking.

the rain, who is frank? what has he ever done for black people? let's ask the same question. i did, and they won't tell how much money they make. i did my own research. a lid that over 60 percent comes from the black community, over 60 percent. let me back up. i am here with a bunch of prestigious churchgoing folks. i am sure you don't even know what hennessy is. [laughter] that and trying to give you more data and reference points and make sure i give you numbers to back up my premise it is a kodiak enjoyed by many black people a 60 to 80% comes from the

black market. the state was verified by the "wall street journal". with their company wholly dependent on our market to survive, they don't have a mission statement, much less our corporate practice. they might donate to a couple of black groups to let take great pride in the national arbor and lead. i know. they are a party with us, not doing business with us. and they do not do anything for our new labs. a new floating memorial, entrepreneurialism center, and i should be teaching added. [applause] seriously, logic count set every black bank, dozens of

distributors and significant advertising in black-owned media. and my crazy? them by being unreasonable? mia radical racist? that is what they call me. i am asking too much in the sea is the driving. private jets, living the lives of our children cannot conceive of. no one asks about that. because we do not ask, talk, take the time to look. a wonderful black-owned wind husband and wife, a harvard mba. founded and learned in 2005 there is a $3 billion wine industry south africa.

my one company is the largest to traded market africa's black produced wind seven sisters wind, one of those brands. forced to leave south africa twenty years later they returned and fulfill their dreams. these are fantastic, and we would have never been able to taste them, had it not been for selena, our sister, and her dream to open heritage i get my favorite at the grocery store chain in chicago and drink as much as i can. i am doing this to help. i do it i got even somehow. one more the trust fund kids who have never gone to a

black neighborhood, never had dinner with a black person. after they hear the truth and the data they come with tears in their eyes begging for forgiveness. they're ready to do more. they see the direct correlation between high unemployment and the price of black businesses. west near jobs numbers came out. had me on her show to give my reaction to black unemployment. i was ready. i was going to say, i will tell you why black unemployment is so high, no one is supporting black businesses. so it's more corporations and consumers would support black businesses we could cure the unemployment problem in america. before she even introduced me she said this to me, maggie, thank you for

teaching america and a profound lesson about where money goes and what it can do. i said, thank you. thank you for having me on the show today. but here's the point of the story, right after ana did not go off they had what a scene in the economist their with a graph that said that black-owned businesses get the least support of all american businesses and only 6%. this is why all americans need to do more to support black owned businesses. even fox news admitted that black businesses are not treated fairly. publishers weekly said that it is dynamite. finally, someone talked about this subject. c-span did a great story on

our experiment, and i talked about a great place to the great paper company that you could be supporting. the next day c-span and office max reported that the numbers with both of their phone numbers were flooded by people looking for that paper company. iran that segment over and over again. the same time people were looking at me instead of congressman ryan's acceptance speech. on the west side of supercargo they declared after spending that day the black businesses are rare. and the white economist of the growth of local black businesses the anderson effect. i and anderson, by the way. [applause] and not telling you this to brag.

i think america is ready to see our community empowered, proactively and publicly supporting businesses so that the country can benefit i really do think america is ready. how do we do this? how do we stay informed and speak out? are you ready to back one -- maggie's list. we will talk about it during q&a. our own angie's list where you can find great corporations, local businesses, products on the shelves that you don't know about and are dying to support. we can create those. i think america is ready, but i am not going to do it, i won't do it unless you are ready. now i am ready to close. i know my time is short they had death threats combat

terrorism our kids. they marched for 385 days straight using their economic might to solve their social problems. none of those people got back on the bus until they get the respect they deserve to. are you marching? are you marching with us, what are you still writing him a comfortable, sitting in the back? i remember the moment -- and that will close enough for real. let me tell you why this is a real. remember the moment when i was considering the shutting down the empowerment experiment. i felt that my mother had pancreatic cancer and and did she get diagnosed one month before a wriggling to launch our experiment. the only reason i am standing here today is because she told me that i

could not stop and this would be the most important thing that i would ever do in they have an award named after me when it was open they had an award that they give out every year they gave it every year. named in a word after me. the first editor in chief of of our newspaper. i did all of that stuff. are you satisfied? add all of these accomplishments i get hen -- i got all these accolades. my mother said to me, i don't have any of those things. aren't you proud of me to back a kickoff you got me. still, haven't i done enough and see said this, i'm going

to go out fighting. are you? i am asking you this same thing. i am going to go out fighting. are you? she was a farmer and you never graduated from high school, but the most brilliant woman i will ever know because she taught me that it did not make us any less black that our brothers and sisters. she taught us that we just got blocked off a little earlier. [applause] >> okay. we have got to go. thank you. thank you all so much. i hope you buy the book today. i will be around all day. we need your support. thank you so much. and i am sorry.

>> i knew she would be a tremendous hit with this audience. she is amazing, amazing. >> tonight to south barrett is at well baker, president and ceo of the wireless association. >> if you remember, i was at the commerce department, reproducing spectrums in the department of defense. this process has really been learned. is doing wonderfully. paired, internationally harmonized, 65 mhz, so excited. we will turn around and have the broadcast incentive auction. that discussion is going well. i think that they green hill report which the fcc put out which values the spectrum, those numbers have turned the discussion from a policy discussion to a business decision, which is where it needed to turn to. we are excited about those auctions. i am certain that our carriers will come to them.

it is going to be a win-win situation for everyone. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. >> with the 2014 midterm election just over a week away c-span campaign debate coverage continues. today at 7:00 p.m. eastern.

>> the cato institute held an event looking into police misconduct and whether new technology like body cameras can make police more accountable. scholars examined the militarization of police forces around the country, citizens' rights, and ways to insure police respect civil liberties. this is about 90 minutes.

[inaudible conversations] >> hello. welcome to the cato institute. i'm kat murti, the marketing manager. you are at our new media lunch, a regular series. our panelists here today will be discussing it the policy and the privacy concerns surrounding the filming active-duty police officers as well as touching upon on-body cameras programs and what they could potentially do to mitigate police misconduct. for those of you in our online audience and watching on c-span today, new media. if you would like to it

tweet in questions. otherwise, for those of you in the audience we will take him at the end comedic founder and executive director and also a kaytoo plum. a creator of the immensely popular educational movie busted and more recently ten rules for dealing with police to be in a distant @booktv addition this of distributing his u-2 channel has seen more than 85 million dues. >> thank you. how many of you have seen the movie the matrix by a show of hands? pretty much everybody. what i want to try to do is the same thing. do you remember when he said, i no kudzu after they up loaded the program into his brain.

lycoris said, i want to do the same thing with you, but what i want is for you to say, i know how to record the police. so to do this i have broken this and to flex your rights five rules for recording the police. number one, knows the law, and the law is, you have the right to open late record the police and public. you notice that i emphasized openly and will explain why in a second. this first rule is probably the most important but most confusing because we have all seen videos where people are getting arrested for openly recording the police and public. and we see these every day. police intimidating, even arresting people who do nothing more than phone the police. and this is happening despite the fact that every state and federal circuit

court to rule on this question has concluded that filming the police and public his first amendment protected activity. but some of you might ask, what about that traverse the state's that have what are called of all party consent laws that require all parties to agree to be recorded. good news. the courts have ruled that those laws do not apply to citizens who are openly recording the police and public. so the most obvious and effective way to avoid running afoul of these is to use your camera like you our reporter, not like you're a spy. you want to be always openly to recorded. some of you know a little bit about these laws might be saying, wait a second, what about massachusetts and illinois? to states that have statutes of the book that make it illegal to report 35 record the police and public.

again, good news because in 2011 the first circuit court of appeals covering massachusetts declares their lots to be unconstitutional. soon afterwards the seventh circuit court of appeals covering illinois did the exact same thing. those laws have been invalidated. therefore, in the united states citizens always have the right to an openly it records the police in pursuit. so cover if you are recording the police and they tell you to put your camera away, that is an to say something like, officer, i am familiar with lot but the courts have ruled that it does not apply to film the on-duty piece. i generally don't advise in favor of educating the police about off from a but in this situation i think it is advisable.

a number two, know your technology. how many of you have a smart phone on you right now by smote -- by shows our phones that is pretty much most everyone here, and that is great. how many of you as to protect your phone? actually, who of you here does not? you should not admit to that. but you can easily see curate by installing a pass code protection, and i highly recommend it. the supreme court recently passed a very excellent ruling requiring police to obtain a warrant before searching your smart phone, but in the meantime it is always a good idea to keep it locked down because sometimes police do not get the memo read away. now, how many of you have a streaming video recording application on the home screen of your smart phone?

really? we have like three, four, five? that is fantastic. i am going to show you right now the benefits of keeping one. right now i am on locking my secret pass code, tapping this streaming video recording app creed that do not work for them, but right now they have the best streaming video recording app out there, and i am now streaming you all live to an off site server. the benefit of this for when you are recording the police is that if a police officer of lawfully chais to snatch, confiscate, or destroy your smart phone, what you have recorded up until that moment will be saved securely of sight. also, if you use another live streaming video recordings -- this one in particular has a neat feature. your screen goes blank, and

this can be additional security protection for your data because the pass code -- it goes to sleep, but if they try to unlock it, if they turn it on they will get a pass code the leader of course to your not going to give them your past could anyone be able to get into and delete your recordings, an extra layer of protection number three, response to things that cops state. c-span is here. for example, they might say, if you are, for example, recording an arrest that is happening, you are a witness because of a you might see a situation where one of the police officers will break off from that and approach you and say, hey, buddy, what are you doing? sometimes people make the mistake of responding with something like, officer, i am recording you to make sure you're doing your job right or i'm recording you

because i don't trust the police. their is a better way to save this, something like, officer, i am not interfering. i am asserting my first amendment rights record. you are being documented and recorded off site. that is why it is a good idea to use a live streaming video recorder. another thing they might say is, please stop recording me. that is against the law, and police who are in those 12 states with all party consent laws might actually use this misunderstanding of the law in order to try to get you to stop recording. in this situation, again, i think it is a greater say something like an officer, i am familiar with the law but the court has ruled that it does not apply to recording on-duty police. then my scream at you and stay, -- say stand back. a good response to this is to step back. i think that is okay to be a little bit flexible.

say something like, officer, i am not interfering. answering my first amendment rights record. it is for my safety and for yours. greuel number for, do not point your camera at the police like it is a gun, like this. i have seen a lot of videos were people get aggressive and shove it in their face. i do not think that is a good idea. a better way to do with -- and you can avoid that vertical video center and the you might see, the black borders and it is ugly make sure you go horizontal paid and it is a good idea to record like this. when you hold the phone at waist level i think it is a lot less confrontational, and you can still look and get a perfectly good shot. you do not have to frame it

up like a cinematographer. it is okay if you clipped the officer's head in the process, it is better than pointing a camera like a gun. and you can avoid that vertical video. it will number five, final rule, prepare to be arrested have been telling you the whole time basically have this is perfectly legal behavior. yet you must look at this activity as a potential act of civil disobedience that can lead to your rest. now, it is troubling that citizens were not breaking the law should prepare to be arrested, but if the officer says, shutting off or will arrest you, you should take the officer at his or her word. at this point it is entirely up to you. you may comply by saying something like, okay, i am turning the camera off but under protest. or if you keep recording brace yourself for rest.

if you are recording, hit the sleep a button to prevent police from the leading your footage that is stored off site, do not physically resist. you have the right to remain silent and you should use this right by shutting up. keep colman be confident that any frivolous charges will almost certainly be dropped, and you will have preserved video evidence of an illegal arrests that might become the basis of a potentially lucrative lawsuit. more importantly, you could change the way police treat other citizens. so congratulations. you have all been upgraded. you know how to record the police. >> thank you, steve. [applause] our next presenter here is jonathan blanks, a research associate in gallegus center

for constitutional studies and a blog editor. research interests include police misconduct, the drug war, over criminalization and other criminal justice issues. works are published in online outlets as well as print and online editions of the "washington post" and the chicago tribune, and denver post's and maintains a personal blog. you can follow him on twitter. >> thank you. first of all, i want to apologize. originally scheduled to be here. he fell ill. i am happy to be here instead because this is something i am passionate about. police misconduct dot net is a kaytoo resource that we use. i should take this moment to thank katie who does so much work behind the scenes keeping this site up and running and up to date. the website is not meant to shame police or be anti cop.

we believe that police officers are trying to do their best, but the incentive and institutional pressures for rule breaking are existent and that this too often leads to rights violations against both the guilty and innocent. we show how often this occurs with daily roundups of the latest news around the country a police breaking laws. police misconduct tends to be thought of as this rare bad apples sort of incident where it is one, and not representative of the entire department which is often true. it only takes one to give the rest a bad example. however, there are many factors that shield and protect bad cops, including the complicity of good cops to though they may resent the bad ones feel through police solidarity that they need to stay quiet or support him. that is of a long story for q&a or another time. but because of this

rotational in balance misconduct often goes unnoticed or unreported. moreover, when officers are caught doing bad things such incidents are dismissed out of hand. but we feel that police misconduct is something that requires more attention. sunlight is the best disinfectant. the more we know about police misconduct the better we know how to deal with bad apples and the better that we can stop bad management of police agencies. and technology is a growing part of maintaining and accountability from both an internal police perspective and forced accountability by the citizens, as steve described. there is reason to be optimistic about the future of policing due to the advances in recording technology. as steve king explained, most of us have cell phones with recording technology. they are virtually ubiquitous.

likewise, dashcams have been in patrol cars for a long time and now the technology allows police officers to wear cameras on their person so that they can now record every instance they come into contact with the public. these technologies allow for mutual observers to observe contessa defense as stops after the fact, and so this sometimes police can be shown to abuse their authority. also works to protect the police. just recently an officer was accused of sexual assault. and his camera showed that he did absolutely nothing wrong, and exonerate him. affordable and accessible technology may have finally brought us closer to answering the question, who watches the watchers. we all do. as many of you probably know, official autopsy results of the michael brown case in ferguson, missouri

released yesterday along with leaked grand jury evidence, officer wilson was wearing a body camera perhaps you would have a better idea of what happened i say perhaps because we know that technology is only as good as the people who use it and share it. cameras are not a cure all. there are instances caught on film in which police are clearly violating the rights of others. two years ago there was a young man in prince george's county maryland assaulted by a police officer. his crime was essentially walking away from a police officer who wanted his attention. the officer started running after him, and he turns around hearing in the footsteps of the police officer who is not yelling stop, police, or anything. he gets it in the face with a gun. the gun goes off. luckily no one a shot, but

this man, again, was assaulted by a police officer. luckily there was surveillance video footage. he was charged and spent a month in jail for essentially being physically assaulted. now, the police officer was charged. he did go to trial, but he won. there was video evidence, and it did not get him off. he also was not fired. he had back issues and was allowed to -- was allowed to retire, which usually means a pension. likewise, as was noted, video evidence is sometimes withheld by police departments. one instance that he noted was, a woman was pulled over by police. she claims that she was injured during a stop. back up police came. there were 7-board cameras, all mysteriously simultaneously stopped

working. and so it was her word against seven police officers. guess what happened? people's word against the police in court is usually not good without video evidence. part of this is because people want to believe police officers, and i understand the impulse, but they are people, just like the rest of us. people lie and have many incentives to do so. this is where the public comes in. if you follow the right rules, follow his rules, you can get taped evidence of misconduct in your own neighborhoods. but i must caution that there still is a danger to this endeavor. i think some of you probably saw during the protest and ferguson, there was a large sort of moving protest, and a police officer was in the middle of it. he pointed is assault weapon at individuals and friends to kill one of them. and this was caught on tape,

and the videographer asked him, he was like, did you just try to kill me? what is your name. the officer responded the something will not say on c-span, but that went viral. because of that video, that officer was found, identified, and fired. that is a very rare. if that police officer got too scared or someone bumped into him or something went wrong, that person with the video camera could have been shot, so please be careful. i am not saying don't do it. please do, but understand the risk and be careful. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you, jonathan. [applause] and our final panelists here today is matthew fogg, retired chief deputy of the u.s. federal marshals service and a member of law enforcement against prohibition. he received the district of

columbia u.s. attorney in federal bar association highest law-enforcement award for tracking down over 300 fugitives. after 32 years of service he retired following a final d.c. circuit court of appeals decision finding his civil-rights were grossly violated operating a racially hostile environment. he holds positions and three nonprofit government watchdog organizations. you can find him at twitter. matthew. >> thank you very much, and it is good to be here. thank you for that introduction. i agree wholeheartedly with my two colleagues, steve and jonathan, on things that have been presented here. at present a law enforcement perspective to augment and add to that some of the things i have observed. one of the things, for me to win a lawsuit against the justice department says that there were improprieties, a lot of things going wrong on the inside. ..

and we say what types of solutions we can come up with help us and maybe understand police veteran get a better understanding of the situation, we have to understand, when i'm on that street as a law enforcement officer i i have a lot of discretion and i have a network behind me that's going

to back me up. sometimes we call it the good old boys network whatever you want to call it that it includes police officers. it includes prosecutors. it includes judges. it's a home network and even those when we have been granted jour i have several on the grand jury and every member that close relationship that the u.s. attorneys had with the grandeur is talking to them everyday and communicating, laughing and joking with each either, coming together. so that right there had a major influence on those cases before the grand jury. what i'm saying to you is there's a network here. we are talking about how do we build and had we get inside that and i were? being a member of law enforcement, we nationally across the whole country we send a message out. the war on drugs is bad policy. not only is it bad policy and not only does it cost the country a lot of money is probably one of the most racist

policies that has been instituted since slavery and that's pretty powerful. but when you begin to look at the disparities and the numbers from the aclu report, i was a member of amnesty international. we did a racial profiling report that indicated more people have been profiled since 9/11 than the population of canada. i mean i have seen so many reports that show the disparities are close but they are so widespread and let me look and see what happens in ferguson, when we see what happened with the new york chokehold we are seeing this stuff on television. we saw this man being choked to death while he was saying i can't breathe and he was ultimately killed. we saw rodney king get beaten i don't know how many times, watching this right on television. everybody is saying that is wrong, that is crazy.

but what happens? >> officers don't get convicted because that network behind he says this is how we do it here. so what i'm trying to say is this. yes cameras are good but we don't know to be honest with you when all that information has gone back in when a jury, when you were sitting in front of a jury and that officer is allowed to go back in, rethink everything is as you know the laws different women officers involved. they don't have to give a statement right away. all the protections that they have and once they get back people tell them i've been involved in this issue. you want to change this. you want to be careful how you put this forward. all of this is really decent general men and what i'm i'm saying to you is one that begins to happen you take a year or two years, that jury is sitting there and that jury is hearing the officer was saying i believed he had a gun and i was

threatened with my life. i remember one of my partners was killed six months ago so i felt threatened when he turned around and looked at me with his hands up in the air saying don't shoot. and you are going to give people they're going to sit on that the jury and say you know what, i know police officers have a lot that they have to go through everyday. so we give them the benefit of the doubt. what i'm simply saying here is there is a lot in law enforcement that we need protection. i dare say to you this. when i won my case everybody said to me paul don't take on the justice department. don't go forward. you know what happens to cops when they blow the whistle and they speak out. your career will be destroyed and not only that but they will probably kill you or set you up and believe it or not that happen. i was left in the stakeout. my black partner who also raced

a discrimination complaint about the internal improprieties found up to. they don't know who killed him. the white marshal marshall that spoke up lost his job. he testified how they gave him a -- holding it up. that's what they gave him. so what i'm saying to you is we have got these situations out here that we are looking at going on in ferguson and in stanford florida. mainly because like i said now it is an issue with the cameras and so forth. this stuff has been going on ladies and gentlemen forever. it has been out there, trust me. my 32 years of law enforcement i saw a lot of questionable incidents that i had to tell officers right then and there you are not going to do that in front of me right here. when i worked with other departments as u.s. marshal i was working with seattle miami l.a.p.d. new york pd and i will

tell you i saw some of the most egregious -- you pull a vehicle over in the young man says to the officer do i have rights here? you bring a dog in the dog's nickname is alert. that's the nickname. what i'm saying to you is they're all kinds of ways to get around their fourth amendment rights and that's what i want to do. most african-americans on the street know that so they don't even want to challenge it a lot of times. when you get pulled over on your way to work or going somewhere you know right then the officer will put you in a situation where he can either create a problem for you so you give consent. you don't want to be held up in court. you don't want to go through these changes that you give give them consented me say go ahead. now it's easy to stand back and say no i don't want you to ser

serve. all of the other rights that you have but there are so many things to come into play out here on the street. what i'm saying is until we address those issues, until we start to really say to people why are these disparities when we look at the drug crack-cocaine arrests and we look at the same arrests, the same incidents that we need numbers of african-americans that are arrested, charged and doing time for the same drug. i have always said an equal opportunity enforcement operation we wouldn't have the war on drugs issued today because it would have been over the same way as alcohol prohibition. like the man told me when i was working with the dea he said to me look, we have all the drug an addiction task force miami

seattle washington but they were all urban folks. don't they use drugs and potomac maryland? don't they use them in silver springs or maybe affluent locations? >> said yes. as a matter fact they have got the better stuff. he says if we go out there run through their houses and do all the things that we do in our enforcement operations do our enforcement operations do you know what happens? >> will get a phonecall and they will shut our operation down. there goes all your time. there goes all your excitement, all your money and everything you're making. they are still using the drugs, just going to get our numbers up. i told him that the ethnic cleansing but this is what we have to look at patriots understand this whole process of how it's working. thank you very much. i appreciate it. [applause]

>> from what all of you guys are seeing here today it sounds like cameras would be a part of the solution. are they actually viable solutions for police misconduct or does it need to be part of an overall strategy? are they maybe not going to work wax. >> certainly you can't count on cameras to cure the problem but i think you know what video does is it brings us closer to the truth and the truth can bring us closer to justice and accountability. i like the fact that you have politicians like rand paul and claire mccaskill and ferguson talking about funding for cameras, body cameras for the police because they think what we have seen in small trials that have been done where i think it was rail to california,

there was a trial funded so you sort of have to take it with a grain of salt. in that small study after year the incidence of police actually using force reduced by about 8 80%, really striking reduction. and the incident of police misconduct was reduced by 60%. i think what you are saying, what i hope to see more often is the police officer with a body camera facing off with a citizen carrying a camera and what you are going to have there is a very pleasant and lawful police encounter i think more times than not. and that's a good thing. video brings us closer to justice. >> i agree pretty much. i agree with everything you said. there are cultural problems within the police department.

there's a thin blue line where cops will not -- and with that said when you read the stories i mean you think of it when you think of corruption you think okay well his wife left him. he is taking a little bit of money on the side and it's not that big of a deal. no one is dying but the problem is i have read cases where police officers are afraid to tell on child molesters. the intimidation factor within the police culture can be so bad that they will protect whomever just to keep the peace. that requires considerable reorganization of police departments and accountability. a lot of people point to the policeman's union or sec with the ferguson case the pages that went up to fund-raiser for officer wilson were in fact run by the police unions.

i don't blame them. i think there are plenty of institutional problems that are completely divorced from the union that reinforce these procedures. >> just add a little bit to that i think body cameras are a good idea. certainly me as a law enforcement officer being on the street and if everything i was doing was being recorded there's an invasion of your rights as a normal person but because there is so much violence when it comes to again the african-american community we are talking about two different policing aspects here. i tell people this all the time. the police get behind me and i don't even have any -- so what i'm seeing is i'm like wondering what are they going to do and i

know when i remember this very clearly. i had my shoulder holster on and i had on a shirt and tie. the police came and surrounded my vehicle and jumped out and everything. i kind of freaked a little bit. i had to put my hands up and i just froze. and once they came up and sauce he reported a man with a gun. a black man with a gun so what i'm saying to you is this. to tell somebody, an african-american you handle it this way, if that officer is looking for harassment or he wants to create a scene he's going to be looking to do that. he's going to say something. that body camera may help you there if it's being recorded but we know they can turn wrong.

we know they're all types of things we can do and we are talking about they don't tell you to go through. i'm just saying there are a lot of things we need to address with judges and lawyers. we have to address the system and say race is really a part of america as much as race improprieties as apple pie and we need to address it. the last time we try to pretend like it is a -- it's not. it is really cut and dried. what happened in the black community is different than the white community when it comes down to policing. it's a lot different. so i consider it the folks in this room you could say, because we knew if i stopped the vehicle was for whites in the car or four blocks in the car i knew whatever he said that those black folks that hold the institution is going to back me up, prosecutor and all, lock stock and barrel. the four white folks they might

say what was the probable cause? it's the culture. when the guy said and again i want to emphasize that, this is how we do it here. when he said that to me he wanted me to understand. i know you know the rules because you went to the academy. don't worry about all of that. he's talking about having to throw away a weapon. that was a part of the culture. always make sure you have an extra weapon on you at night or something just in case you get into an accident where you know you were wrong. that knife in a hand or whatever. this is really a decent government. i hope i'm not writing anyone here but this is real when i talk about things that are said on the inside and the culture that exists. >> when we are thinking about these potential cultural problems in society in the

police department will on body cameras actually have a real effect or we will see the exact same issues we see with the dashboard cameras with it being turned off or the videotape issues are similar issues? >> i think the technology is there where it's obvious whether it's turned on or off or not with the metadata and with the recording. you can tell whether a person turned it off or not or whether it was a technical failure. certainly a technical failure could include an officer not using the camera. i am hopeful and i'm optimistic. i believe that, i hope that we are not as few and far between

where he had an incident what happened in ferguson where someone dies as a result of a police officer and we do not have video evidence of that whatsoever. i think the technology is there. certainly in ferguson when it happened the first thought i had a lot of people had was where was the dash camera? there's no dash-cam footage and now you have ferguson police and military equipment with hundreds of thousands of dollars and the whole camouflage and infrared goggles. moreover i think that if you have a situation where a dash-cam is installed or the body camera in both the dash cam and the body camera for example he gives out for one reason or another before a terrible tragic

incident regardless of who is to blame. if that technology goes out that it will look a lot like obstruction of justice and it will not be something that will be able to look at, prosecutors would be able to look the other way and investigating fad of itself as a crime. i'm hopeful of that. >> i was recently at an event at the urban institute with police chief cathy when they are among other people and she was talking about the other technological ways that we can start bringing police actions more in line with respect to our rights. one of the programs she asked me about his tracking basically the police pull over. it's not so much that -- i means we are dealing with it but many times he doesn't think he's a

racist or he doesn't think i'm out there to try to mess up these people because i don't like them. it's implicit bias of a happen to pull them over -- black people and measuring us and recording all of this and being able to go back to this officer in say hey why are you only pulling over black people are mostly pulling over black people for these issues and having accountability factor. i think this along with the body cams and the sort of profiling information within the police department is just part of a broader scheme of accountability. san diego has a body cam videos that they won't release. it's not part of the public record. it was taxpayer dollars from people who paid with tax money but they don't release it. you need a system that will

actually become accountable for these people. >> just had a little bit more to that. and i go back to race because when you're talking about race it's almost like germ warfare and when i say germ warfare in the sense that as soon as you come up with an anecdote they come back with the worst strain and you begin to try to figure out every time you create a policy accountability at all about accountability. that's the bottom line. violating somebody's civil rights and that officer need to be held accountable. one day i was on the radio talking about a road that was being racially profile. i had a black man comey and he goes mr. fogg were these people speeding and i said yes they were. and they were black? what's the problem? he said they were speeding weren't they? i had to think about this for a

second and i said the problem is this. we violated their civil rights first before we stopped them because we want to stop the white speeder so that was a violation of their civil rights. the issue is a lot of officers may be doing things that they don't necessarily see as racist, as biased enforcement operations. they see it is as going to the weakest link. that's what that particular manager told me. he said look if we start arresting those books out there they are going to a problem for us. so they will simply go after the weakest link. it was a white person person telling me this and it never dawned on him but that weakest link for me was the community that he came from. he never thought about that. he said look they are all violating the laws and still using illegal drugs and so forth

at that same policy. if we use the body cameras going back to what kat said about the body cameras again there's always ways you can mutate around what i did in my head as opposed to what i did physically because again if i can convince you and we find jurists don't want to convict cops and especially if the person happens to be african-american. most of the time the jurists can't even identify with him. the jurists should look like the people they're going to lock up or put away. the community, the officer should look like the community they serve. that wasn't in ferguson. again i am saying to you we can bring up body cameras. these are all good things. we could put in policies when to use the teaser and went to shoot and when not to shoot but i have to say, have to articulate i feel threatened for my life.

i have a shooting in miami. in fighting this guy. he was an escaped felon. we have are physically fighting. i have a 9-mm on me. i'm fighting this guy from one room to the next. i'm so tired of my arms i felt like gumby when it was all over. there was no strength in my arms but here it is. when it was all over my partner chased him and fell down on the shotgun and boom. it didn't kill him and the pellets didn't hit any vital areas that the u.s. attorney i will never forget he said fogg i have one question for you. when you are fighting this man in the parking lot why didn't you just pull your gun out and shoot him? and i stopped and i looked at him and i said i guess i didn't feel like my life was in danger. he said good answer, good

answer. i'm fighting him and i never thought and of course they don't want to fight people and knock me dizzy and shoot me in a fur hat or something. why did the officer shoots him when he was unarmed at the time? there's a lot of discussion about the point i'm making. when do i shoot, when do i fire? we have to find these incidents taking place in the african-american community. that is what we is what we are finding so writ there is a mindset out there. thank you. >> i just have one more question and i will take the moderators prerogative before good of the audience. any time we talk about cameras perishes privacy and i think i have been seeing two different facets of that argument. one of which comes from the police officers who are concerned about having their day-to-day on the job film not

because they are worried about police conduct issues or because they are worried they'll be filmed badmouthing their boss or something similar and then we'll get in trouble because of that. on the other hand i'm hearing from private citizens who are concerned that police wearing body cameras they might come to their home for any reason and that turns their home and to essentially public domain. what would normally be allowed to be filmed this now being filmed and they are concerned about the fourth amendment issues there. can you guys speak to that a little bit? >> i remember when even before the smarts on the issue was cameras placed in public and closed-circuit cameras and a lot of civil -- were concerned with this smacks of george orwell

1984 surveillance tape stuff. but you know they got it installed despite objections and they were just waiting for the other shoe to drop. the thing is i think people appreciate when you are in public you do not have an expectation of privacy and police are now learning that they too do not have an expectation for privacy in the public. so i think the concern that the police officer is badmouthing is barely a reason to beat getting rid of the technology to reduce the horrible incidents of police misconduct or police covering it up. so there is that and it backed its funny because it's almost police department -- using the argument that we are concerned about people's privacy in their own homes but there's a police officer with a camera in their home. this is something that is so easily protocol can be developed. basically to say if you leak

information and if information and a few legal video in time -- inside of a persons home to the public that you will be fired for that and this information would be used that as relevant as far as criminal cases are concerned. the same with the video with the police officers are setting the camera on. the video, the procedure, the video would only be pulled if there was a shooting or an incident or even an arrest happening. so i think we can craft policies and protocols that can easily address these policy concerns or privacy concerns. >> i would agree with that although i would prefer legislation over protocol. you have the. [crying] in the book rise of the warrior cop, stops a bill that would have authorized -- from becoming

federal policy. you can't just bus bust down the door because you are serving a warrant. as all of us know its policy because there's no legislation preventing it. i would prefer instead of leaving it up to the police to develop a proper protocol to purge the information when it's no longer relevant. i think we need a legislation to back it up. >> again being in law enforcement and having been out in operations having cameras on me, i would get used to it that the reason it is there how many people have seen cops? they are riding along and

enjoying it. if you put it on cops he can put it on -- and my bottom line is yeah the bottom line is once the police come to the scene anyway there's no more privacy at that point. something's going on in the reason i'm there and we need to have some dialogue and it has to be something going on. the battery cameras, some type of recording of what's being said in what's being done needs to be there and it will make a lot of officers think twice about whether i'm telling something that i know isn't legally proper or isn't right and giving them their rights in that. again we have said we have always known that people have rights and officers know that and we have boys been trained that when the academy. somebody says he needs more training. no he doesn't come he needs to be fired. he doesn't need more training.

the point is we have all of this training so we understand. we need to realize that yes america does need to see what you do and you shouldn't have a problem with us seeing what you do because that's her job. your job is to serve and protect the public and the public should know exactly what you are doing. we can make the call and then we have got to start thinking about the accountability out of the policeman's hands and putting it into a private organization. the citizens review board, something other than the police determining it. that's my view on that. thank you. >> with that i would like to kick it over to the audience for questions with a reminder to our on line televised audience is that you can tweak in questions.

>> it's very l.a. california like. the technology that probably will be coming down the line if you have the best camera for the average citizen so i'm sure there are rules about that. everyone is walking around the button it has a camera on it and audio is able to record every aspect of your life when you're out there in the real world including interactions you may have with officers. what are the rules about that because as a lawyer i would think that's a great opportunity to talk about what we can record and what we can't record. secondly if i haven't had any problems with the police in my entire life and if i've never been incarcerated and i've ever done drugs and i've never done anything that would be considered egregious in terms of breaking the law and my still considered a black man? >> the main question there was

since technology is moving in a direction when which private citizens can have wearable cameras potentially and that there will be likely rules and regulations around what constitutes invasions of other people's privacy in the public space while you were wearing the camera can those rules be transposed into on body camera policies for police officers? >> i think we are to have a framework that. it's reasonable expectation of privacy in fact in the states that i described that have the all party consent laws there are essentially created for prevention of wiretapping. what should be confidential and presumably confidential conversations being put in the public or used to blackmail person. we have that framework so a lawyer and the client in an office certainly if the lawyer or client is recording it they should be obligated to tell the

other person that they are recording it and get their consent. [inaudible] >> ultimately there will be a lot of awkwardness and it won't always be pretty. certainly i can appreciate the police officers right now. they are just starting to get used to this idea. there are most like celebrities. it's like the paparazzi following them around and actually a lot of celebrities are still not very comfortable with that but ultimately the courts will come down on the side of the first amendment right to record so long as you are not using a camera and an off-duty police officer's window clearly is, you have the right to openly record the police and public. the other more obvious opportunity pointing it into

their bedrooms and bathrooms. >> you know on the piece and i concur with steve but just the piece about being a black man and never having any encounters with the police would that change your race? absolutely not. we are just saying that there's an overwhelming disparity in how police operate when it comes down to people of color in there are enough statistics to show that. but not every person of color has said any type of encounter with the police or negative encounter. >> i think some of us have been raised a certain way and it has benefited us. you have good parents and you're fortunate enough to understand principles. as a way you conduct yourself regardless of your skin color in

public. if you do get pulled over for something there's a way you talk to the police that is likely to garner respect and so far it has worked for me. >> no and i understand that but i know a lot of guys that were very respectful and nice. everything you can think of to the police but they often wanted to make her a arrest and he was looking for way to make an arrest. all i'm saying is i have seen victims behind stuff like that. if you did that to you he could get away from it because the money would cause you decided and to try to appeal it. everything you would go through. most people don't have that resource so they have to go along with the program. there are some people you pull over and you do the wrong thing to trust me you will hear from city hall but most of these

folks they know their rights. you have guys sing to the officer i don't have to tell you that. i don't have just stepped out of the vehicle. in the story. whether you have a reason to step out of the vehicle, if you don't step out of that vehicle you will probably get a taster on the side of you. i'm just saying this is the real world out there. even though you may know it's not right you do it that officer tells you to do. >> i have a dear friend who was a police captain of a swat team in the u.s. major city retired. i was working on police misconduct in the rights of individuals and he said, and i told him about refusing to answer questions about certain things and i said what would happen if someone did that to you?

i swear i had just met him and he looked at and them around the room and he was like either an african-americans around here with every bit of condescension as he was going to say something else. my friend informed him that my father was black. he was like oh any way we would probably shake him down anyway and let them go about his business and rough him up a little bit. i had just met this man. the fact that he would be so open to me about that and obviously talking to someone who has had guns pulled on him minding his own business driving down the street, it didn't happen to you and that's great but that doesn't mean it's not true for a lot of people. >> i think the most important indicator of the fact that there are different outcomes for people of color versus whites so when you look at the traffic stop hit rate data whether it's

statistics, what you will see is that the hit rate meaning the likelihood that they are going to find contraband are lower, significantly lower sometimes, by cap as much for blacks and latinos as they are for whites. they have a higher percentage likelihood of finding contraband than when they pull over white person. this is strange because if you look at the national statistics, people of color, black, latino use illegal drugs for example it almost identical rates and yet they are more likely to find when they do a search evidence of illegal activity and a white person's vehicle because it seems to be the reason is that police will be more likely to conduct a search if they have probable cause and they actually

have evidence whereas the threshold seems to be lower for people of color which is why you have lower hit rates. so to me and i know it's hard for a lot of people who want to believe this idea that everything believes on the action of the citizen and the police will behave exactly equally depending on the behavior, it's a nice thing to believe but i think the evidence bears out something differently and i think they hit rates are the strongest evidence of that disparity. >> i would like to go ahead and take a question from twitter. mark hammock from los angeles california asks will police surveillance video the public record and admissible in court? >> the police surveillance video? if you are talking about body cameras again what we need is

legislation to make sure that you know any material that is taken is actually relevant and if it's not it's purged. outside of that one of the things i would think about when he was talking about or when you are talking about going into the house you don't want somebody going into the house in saint oh someone robbed your house and then the police go back and they look at the film and they see oh was not a bomb and they will go back later and issue a warrant for something when they were in the house originally to help you but then they come back to search you. we need legislation to stop that sort of thing but it would be public record. >> i think you can imagine this techno-libertarian idea where you can just sit at home and you can have a large screen which has a feed from every police officers by the camera in your

neighborhood and just go like this and watch and listen in like a producer does. like in a sporting event. i don't know if we are going to see that in our lives and i don't think we would need to have that level of access in order to ensure that we have accountability but certainly i think being able to have an independent review board civilian independent review board to keep the ability to subpoena and easily attained that timeline of events that are disputed should be easily accessible at minimum. >> briefly real quickly i would think any video that depicts the incident at being contested by the police or the public would probably be admissible.

>> i would think any video that happens to become an event with controversial when the video was on that's just my thought. >> i think what we have missed is the militarization of police and i think with all this recent legislation that has put a lot of power to please his hands and obviously there is misconduct to begin with i'm curious how we remedy the fact that a lot of these police officers who have this power don't know how to use these weapons in these tools properly. i think that's evident with ferguson. it would be interesting to hear what you guys have to say about how we remedy that situation. >> so the question was about

police -- and with the increasing access to military equipment among police departments many of whom have officers who have not been properly trained in the usage of that equipment, what types of solutions family look at in terms of the issues they're? >> in response to your question, i heard that on the news and i'm thinking to myself why are they saying we are not trained to use that equipment? we were trained to use it. the swat team i was on, we have a lot of equipment that was upgraded so that we wouldn't necessarily need a public forum in a situation where we are doing what we call civil unrest. no. they know how to use the equipment. the purpose of bringing it out

was to show it to scare the public and intimidate the folks that this is what we have and we will use it on you if we have to. those officers that were behind those tanks and the gear that they were wearing, folks are from the air without, the weapons we use, mp-5 and upgraded weapons we use. again what i need to use that weapon? ..

>> that is going to go through about ten people before it stops. so that is the purpose of intimidation and how do we deal with it? the solution and the president gave comments on this about having review of the departments and find out why this equipment is going to them and why are they putting it out there in the situation like that. >> i think one of the things we

really need to think about is how we fund police. so often this money comes free from the government where it is dhs, pentagon, 1033, but you have a problem with local budgets as well where they are going to say we have this swat team, it is expensive to train them, maintain equipment and all of this but we never use them so why pay the money for this. so they get more money from the government and are like we will put them on more drug raids and that is how the system exploded. but it takes a like a full scale reorganization of budget priorities because if the city budget is going to be paying for it they will want to know how useful it is being. if it is just sitting there idle

they will say disband it, which is what most like if it is community where it is rarely needed, or use it more efficiently. >> localities or most cities have independent review boards for police complaints and most require hand written submission which i would guess dissway people from submitting reports and if people are illiterate or homeless there is no way to do that. is there any movement to fix that? >> the question was because many different police departments, the process for filing a misconduct report requires a hand written report, a lot of people are diswayed from filing the reports and is there any

movement to reform that process. >> yes. i want to talk about this actually and the filing a police misconduct report. first of all, if you feel you are the victim of police conduct, not the kind where you are shot in the back but more common kind like an unreasonable stalk and detention or police were rude and used profanity to you and you want to report that how do you do it? most police departments don't have a pretty website saying doing it here. the washington, d.c. police have a pretty decent form system actually but the thing is one of the options is you can create a complaint or accommodation. so it is like that is super. i am sure they are getting lots of accommodations and that is

good if you have a good encounter to give them one, i guess. but the other upsetting thing is they urge you to come down to the station for mediation. if you are a victim of serious police misconduct brutality this is the worst thing you can do: file a police misconduct report especially if there are charges attached and that is almost always the case if you have been physically assaulted. obstruction of justice, grabbing a gun, assaulting a police officer. you want to always, always do this with a lawyer. there are situations with undercover videos where reporters and others send someone in to file a complaint in person and the police desk officer will try to talk them

out of it or start interrogating them and asking them their name, address and birthday and making it intimidating to do so. so what we are doing now and developing an independent online police conduct misreporting online service so you don't have to go into the police department and you can file an independent thorough report online and that you can share if you think that is appropriate and maybe there is information about your next step should be. that is something we are currently developing. >> the cameras and everything are good for the front end but i think matt fog addressed or talked about the real other problems that going to happen on the back end. i think there needs to be a bike. an accountability.

and some things i see a easier access to doing right suits for the average person. the average person doesn't know how to pursue that. it should be automatic for a civil rights lawyer and more civ civilian board for the police department. so more bites. i think the grand jury need to be more independent and not controlled by the attorney general. >> so the question is is there room of more civilian oversight of police misconduct? >> actually, the follow up on what mr. shaq has said the review boards have been for that. i do believe they have to have

teeth and there are some i have spoken to. one in pittsburgh but it is getting teeth where they can suggest and not suggest but order certain things to take place. one of the biggest things and i don't here this too much coming from people with solutions is number three adding to the first one i think you said was civil rights attorneys. more or like if you get in a promo situation and the courts will appoint you on attorney. i believe the courts should appoint -- any time there is a complaint against a police department -- there should be an contin continue assigned to them. we have a witness protection program in the marshal service. i run that.

that is setup for the very reason that in order for government to be able to prosecute the organized crime cases and so forth you have to bring a lot of times the same people that are out there doing the dirt, you have to bring them in and make them their witnesses so they can go after the bigger fish. they need the same thing for police officers who are going to speak out. i am telling you. you are dealing with people with badges and guns. you are an officer that gets people angry, your subordance is behind you, you may wound up in what we call friendly-fire. that is real in law enforcement and i experienced it. when my subordinates left me when i was taking down two

heavily armed suspects in baltimore, the white guys who were supposed to be on the post, they left baltimore, went to washington, d.c. and were sitting up in the boss' office telling them i didn't know what i was doing and i was the inspector in charge. he didn't ask them does mr. fog know you are here. he entertained the things they were seeing. and i got a phone call and the phone call was he is going to pull the task force from me in a couple days if i didn't lock the fugitives up soon. i hung up the phone and locked them up within three hours. we are after these guys. major arrest and went all over the united states because they were on our 15 most-wanted list. i said you charge those guys

with insubordination, leaving the scene and all of the things they created when they left us. he told me, fog, look, you always make us look good and let by gones be by gones. that is the real world in law enforcement. if i know they beat the heck out of someone saying drugs was on them but it was laying in the seat or the gun was on them when it wasn't. they were going for the gun whether they were not. we can go on with a litany of things the officers say and most jurors believe them. so i am just telling you when other officers say no, no this is what really happened but don't leave me hanging out here. we need protection for law enforcement officers or people that blow the whistle. >> i wanted to follow up with

the challenge of filing a civil rights lawsuit. i had a conversation recently with a staffer from the national capital aclu and he has been processing these for a long time and at the end of the conversation i was nauseous because he was beating my head into the pavement about the long road of someone who decides to sue an officer. and how very few are able to climb to the top of the mountain. for one, the violation has to shock the conscious and clear intent by the officer to violate the law and often times you only get that through video or a whistle blower showing this is a policy of racial profiling, for example. so you need to have the inside

information. so for the average person who does face police misconduct, that doesn't need to an arrest or physical you know beating. filing a police misconduct report is probably going to be the most powerful thing that they can do. now people say oh, they don't read those, it will not mean anything. but the problem isn't that too many people are filing police misconduct reports. the problem is exactly the opposite of that. >> i did read that scott greenfield who runs a blog called simple justice and i recommend it for anyone who wants to know about criminal justice policies from a practitioner's perspective. scott suggested that in civil suits for film is involved that

the presumption goes to the playoff. so if they say this officer hit me upside the head and the officer said that didn't happen, where is your buddy camera image, well it malfunctioned. then the default goes to the plaintiff. >> we have a few seconds left. i will take a question from twitter. chris mccoy would like to ask if body camera footage is in fact public record and does it then belong in entirety to citizens to use?

>> yeah, i don't know. i am not a lawyer. but from what i understand the request would be, i mean it depends on the jurisdiction and i don't understand why california doesn't release theirs. if it were public you could probably make it fully public against the citizen or the police officer would be the question but it is twitter. i think against the police officer it should be soley public but a citizen you would need to show cause. but i really don't know. >> okay. with that, we are all out of time. please give a round applause to our panel experts. [applause] >> i thank you for coming out and tuning in online.

i hope to see you december 5th which is the next lunch. that is repeal day. the anniversary of the repeal the alcohol prohibition and we will talk about modern day prohibition. thank you. up next on the communicators ration a convensation on net neutrality and spectrum. and then current and former whitehouse reporters talk about their experiences covering presidents. and later we will get an update on the ebola virus outbreak. >> c-span created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you by your local cable or satellite ov