act of during world -- will pour one there was a grand total of three prior to obama he has more than double the number just in his six years compared to every other president before him combined this is trying to shut off every valve that exist for any informations and other than what the government chooses if you live in a state the only information that gets to the public is what they choose you live in the states of propaganda so what can be done i don't think anything can be done there may be other ways to do it not everybody leaks a journalist takes 10,000 documents to

hand them over on a summer driving in hong kong. but this is a crucial process to save democracy we have to know what they are doing with the process of disclosure is so critical. >> of with the sixth to begin by saluting your courage and intellectual honesty and also the humiliation you affected -- inflicted on the propaganda on the show realtime. [applause] i may use harsh words referring to bill maher but what do you think of him? >> i concur. [laughter] but in individual such as sam the presents himself as

a liberal and progressive to have similar views on american foreign policy as the right-wing pundits what type of influence does he have or how does he resonate ? >> that is the good but complicated question. there was an article today in "the boston globe" the principal point was it does not matter who wins the election then national security state will continue to get its way exactly as they want no matter who wins. i know from going all over the world to speak into reporting on the nsa filed by far the biggest question people ask is people around

the world several rare loved president obama because he looked as a vehicle for fundamental change. from the escalation of drones to the general face of the united states. one but the point of this there is a full-scale consent since -- consensus with about the propriety of the policies so we have so-called liberals like bill barr are those that call themselves the new atheist

for those to fantasize about the bondage of islam in the name of liberal values do spend all their time railing against the muslims is the way dick cheney would convergence in the united states that supports the posture of endless war and the policies that enable and support to look at hillary clinton the most people agree will be the next president she wrote a book harshly criticizing the president not for bombing jiminy muslim countries that not bombing enough and all criticisms were he was to peace oriented and would not use violence in that part of

the world so there is a consensus their share this common theme i think he just says of what he connects to. >> i am not super nervous i have like to make sure nobody that i know is here. [laughter] john cookies to follow me on twitter i had him convinced you could be charged for extortion so just tell them i say hi and eventually he stopped falling meet -- me but working on though leadership campaign i treated about i am not sure if you got the chance to

read it i will not go into the details but working in over 70 different countries working on dozens of classified missions we could not get her any press at all that was the most devastating saying because she put up $80,000 of her own money to run up against trudeau and with that march 3rd deadline maybe we would have been shot to: people vote for her but working on her video my video editing software was packed by chinese. i am not sure it was government or the it address i still have not turned a hired -- the hard drive over

but now with something totally unrelated my question is who did things buys more the domestic police? my trial is coming up in january but some of the stuff they did even in my case since the supreme court said you are not suppose to be getting the it address directly from the service provider have you found the domestic police are more pervious or at the federal or national level? >> thank you. that question and provoked an under appreciated development which is people who have been righty and talking about will recall the war bonterre for a decade has been mostly

condemning certain kinds of abuses perpetrated by the u.s. and allies the other distant parts of the world and populations. what we can see rapidly is the importation into half of the government interacts with its own citizenry. look at the nsa mass surveillance program that was pioneered in baghdad then brought on to u.s. soil. looked at drones police departments in the united states and canada as well using drums for surveillance you saw that progestin ferguson, missouri so the

force that american and police departments use to use against foreign populations are used against the civilian population. once we endorse that mindset that policies are acceptable it is almost inevitable it will be brought into the domestic ground so if you think they can spy on them at will there is a reason why that ultimately could not be brought into your own country and you see that at almost every realm. >> we will take two more questions. it is pretty excessive all.

-- accessible. >> during the attack i walked all around downtown to get along the police lines and stuck around most of the day i did the selfie video talking about misguided fear terrorism verses climate change because climate changes the erie -- the issue that if people understood the threat then they realized climate change is not the issue that would go away and the extreme weather events for $1 billion this all may get more extreme.

so on climate change to release that information sooner than later? [applause] seventy-eight you're getting a little taste what my life has been like someone demands what i file on one topic someone demands to release and a completely different topic. we do have some including spying on climate conference is where they got to gather to negotiate but it is important to understand the temptation is to close your eyes and fantasize what would come and assume that i could have it to release it at any moment. [laughter] but edwards november to one particular agency end in one part with his taking documents. he has to take them or he could get them.

he took a lot but not on every topic. if i could tell you if there were documents that relevant on climate change that would have been reported on already. but be careful to say this is the issue. there is short-term and long-term harm how you weigh pervasive starvation were children suffering from lethal diseases but i agree with a core point completely that human beings are bad and evaluating rest. i know people personally to walk around petrified of the terrorism threat but the text their friends were out driving. that is so much more likely

to kill you van terrorism but one of the things that you see and it is hard to talk about that we are tribal creatures it triggers the tribal instincts that we collectively have been attacked that is why you see lots of canadians with well-intentioned as like waving canadian flags as an attack on a democracy the reason my terrorism so susceptible to be manipulated because the other people who are outside of our society different from us that has attacked as collectively. that is a powerful instinct for revolutionary reasons so that is why the distant climate change that is much

more prevalent but that is the thing to you guard against this manipulation of the emotional constitution because that is how we are led to evaluating the world. >> last question. >> it is of pleasure i have been following your work ever since average snowden arrived in hong kong. but my question is about love with his remarkable to read his papers in "the guardian" article he talks about love i don't want to live in a world we cannot express love and creativity and have relationships online. this technique to a place

for macpherson who is very intellectual and energy talking about encryption and uses abstract terms. but this struck me as the hearts of his motivation is that the heart of the political relationships with each other the ability to be creative for what we're doing right now. [applause] i think it is profound and incredibly insightful about his motivations that is not easy to comprehend. edits a fascinating topic to me and i will say i gave a talk a month ago in brazil

where i talked about this idea that if you're not one of the bad people of terrorism or in engaging in violent crime or a good person to come home to raise your kids that watches tv you're not doing bad things and you don't have anything to hide fetal care of the government invade your privacy but they're not interested in what you do i talk about that critical role that privacy plays in the role of all of us the gesso is doing bad things. when i was in hong kong was critical for me to understand the motive that led him to do what he didn't want it to make sure was not participating to unravel someone's life who gave extremely deep thought why

this was worth doing and i asked him many, many times for the explanation he had a very stable life, a girlfriend who loved him a lucrative career in the family that was supportive a great life and hawaii why would he throw this away for this abstract political ideal? he gave me answers that were not persuasive and tell he said growing up the way he grew up which was for he didn't even finish high school he grew up in a very clustered suburb in northern virginia near the military-industrial complex that he had a narrow world. the internet let him explore other people and himself to

speak to people around the world that he would never communicate with the lower experiment with ideas he can try out different personalities and identities that was all possible exclusively he to do it in a realm of privacy. he did not want to live-in of world like that and the reason it was so important to him that i have thought about is as human beings there all types of scientific studies that our experience proves that more is when we think we're being watched our behavior changes radically we're more conformist and compliant and make choices that are the byproduct of a expectations and mandates only in this

private round that we can have the intimacy and love and friendship and different ways of thinking with creativity and dissent without eyes cast upon us to make judgment. that is something that was crucial to the evolution and as the person were so many people don't just buy books to develop to they are as people to make those human connections it is severely crippled if not completely destroyed when we live in a world about surveillance where the internet is converted to where we can always be watched. so yes he talks about encryption and surveillance

for ultimately a deeply human perspective that drove them to do what he did noble and selfless because he wanted these connections made exclusively where they would flourish and he knew that is what was destroyed and that is what drove him to do what he did. excellent. thank you. [applause] >> thank-you so much for i cannot think of a better place to leave it and there but on behalf of the audience and canadians they give for shocking as into awareness may be not their journalists but for challenging us to rediscover our courage and purpose. glenn greenwald.

[applause] >> thanks. goodnight. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> at dollar general you made over $40 million but yet there were 2,000 women whose sued the company and they said they were paid less than it was found by federal investigators that they were. so given your experience there i wonder if you would join a meet today to support the paycheck fairness act to ensure all women are paid equally to the counterparts?

>> this would only serve the plaintiffs' lawyers i support equal pay for equal work but this is another false attack by independent fact checkers with gatt why she tries to distract us from the real issue of job creation you can understand why that the obamacare lot that signature law was killing 2.5 million jobs. she supports that. she would expand it. i'm sorry but with 400,000 georgians that goes on food stamps that epa kills thousands of jobs but the people love georgia what someone to fight for them

and their family. >> they do when someone who will fight for them and women and families deserve someone that will fight to make sure they are paid equally right now they're paid $0.81 on the dollar i don't think that is satisfactory but clearly those in terms of your history and experience i feel you're in a position to say we do have medicare and we must and every time we have the opportunity to talk with issues like this you move it to a conversation against the president. so women and families deserve pay equity i am disappointed he will not join me to a dance that goal >> i absolutely agree and there is always improvements around the world.

but you cannot talk about obamacare yet. the talk is about a great bill i support the president but it kills 2.5 million jobs right now. talk about amnesty. added time and we have fewer people working since jimmy carter and this seems to me he is adamant about getting you into the senate. his failed policies are on the ballot and in georgia they go by the name of michelle.

fast track

fan >> i am joined this morning the investigator from the epa we're here to announce a settlement under the clean air act a settlement that will send an envoy to dash an unmistakable message that they must comply with u.s. law to be forthcoming with the epa about certification requirements the u.s. department of justice has a determination to protect american consumers. we are announcing today the united states has filed a complaint in federal district course - - chord that hyundai and kia sold cars in the united states based on inaccurate representations' of performance and the missions. beginning in 2012 kia and

hyundai had to meet certain greenhouse gas emissions limits for go these correlate with the fuel efficiency of the vehicle because the more fuel-efficient your car happens to be with mpg the less greenhouse gases it admits. the test vehicles to ensure that they meet emissions standards for of these manufacturers must apply to the epa for a certificate of conformity. through the process card companies provide assurances to the epa and a car like the test vehicle might meet the emissions standards and remain tain kia and hyundai is represented a key characteristics of each car models when it applied for

certificates of those models. because they used inaccurate the low numbers to show compliance semiconductor test in ways that did not show good judgment they calculated higher fuel economy and lower greenhouse gas emissions than what they actually have. the company reported lower numbers to the epa with their applications and claims more credits than they were entitled to and also with the statistics to consumers. because of that misrepresentation of though bobo force those in question are uncertified and each vehicle sold constitutes a separate violation of the clean air act. . .

companies that comply with the law may spend more than those that or misrepresent the performance of their vehicles. they may see their sales by the claims of a company's regarding for example better fuel economy but more importantly all consumers have the right to know that the cars they buy actually have the characteristics that are represented to the epa.

a basic compact monday in kia flagrantly violated in this case. under the historic settlement that we announce announced today an day and kia will remedy their conduct by doing three things. first they will pay a civil penalty of $100 million, the largest civil penalty ever secured under the clean air act. this will send a strong message that cheating is not possible and in a company that violates the law will be held to account. second sunday and kia will forfeit the greenhouse gas credits of the companies wrongly create -- claimed based on their reporting. our settlement will require them to relinquish 4.75 million metric tons worth of credits which could be valued at hundreds of millions of dollars. and finally one day and kia will be required to implement rigorous new procedures including enhanced audit testing

of their vehicles to prevent this kind of violation from ever happening again. for some president did resolution underscores the justice department's firm commitment to safeguarding american consumers with fairness in every marketplace and protecting the environment and relentlessly pursuing companies that make misrepresentations and violate the law. we are pleased to be joined in this action by the california air resources board. this announcement illustrates that this type of conduct quite simply will not be tolerated. the justice department and our partners won't arrest the river in our determination to take action if anyone engages in such activities whenever and wherever they are recovered. i would like to thank everyone who made this resolution possible particularly ben fisher wrote karen and jason barr both the environmental and natural resources division's environmental enforcement section.

at this time i would like to introduce gina mccarthy will provide additional details on today's announcement. >> first of all let me lower the microphone a little bit. hello everybody. first of all let me thank attorney general holder for having us here today and for this partnership on today's announcement as well of course i want to thank acting assistant a.g. hearse for all of his work and all that he has done at doj and i also want to thank cynthia giles who is here. he is the head of epa's enforcement office. i want to recognize phil brooks who has done tremendous work here. he runs our air enforcement division and i also want to congratulate jana mckay and chris on the whole team at epa for working so hard to make good on our rules that epa so creatively and so effectively works with this community to put

in place. so thanks everybody for this. first of all the light duty vehicle rule and let me remind everybody was the first time epa actually acted to regulate greenhouse gas emissions. we acted under the clean air act. we were addressing vehicle emissions because it is essential to our commitment to fight climate change. this case and this settlement actually delivers on the commitment of that rulemaking because when we hold companies accountable to accurate testing through honest reporting we can ensure that the real emissions reduction that we attempted to achieve and be expected to achieve are actually delivered to the american public because when we hold them accountable, we actually make good on our promise to consumers that they know what they are buying and they are going to get the emission reductions in the clean

vehicles that they are intending to purchase. under president obama's leadership epa and d.o.t. historic greenhouse gas fuel economy standards are cutting carbon pollution that fuels our changing climate and they are also saving families money at the pump. we know that fuel efficiency cells. there's no question about it. we know it's the number one factor that consumers think about when they are going to buy a car. the auto industry has come back from the brink because the designing the manufacturing and selling more fuel-efficient and cleaner cars that consumers actually want to purchase. since 2009 the auto industry added more than 250,000 jobs and today more cars are being made on american assembly lines that have been made in the past 12 years. now we also know that when you

misstate fuel efficiency on the stickers these labels of a car, it means that we are not delivering the health benefits and the climate protection promised by the law. what we are doing is making them more attractive to consumers than it would otherwise be. that tilts the market in favor of those who don't play by the rules to those that be -- and it disadvantages those of actually do play by the rules. that's simply not fair and it's also not legal. by enforcing our laws to protect we also protect consumers and promote a vibrant economy. to understand today's actions you have to understand a little bit about how our fuel efficiency program works. our program uses greenhouse gas emission credits we call them. but -- like the attorney general explained.

that's really the current state for legal compliance because it's a fleetwide averaging program in each credit in that program is worth one metric ton of greenhouse gas emissions. so when are the companies go above and beyond efficiency standards they can earn credit but if they fail to meet those standards they have to use those credits to balance the ledger and that's why companies buy and sell credits to make sure they are in compliance select the companies through real through call through a car the we don't get the emission reductions the law guarantees. that's what today's case is all about. hyundai and kia violated the clean air act by overstating fuel efficiency in over 1 million cars and suvs that they sold. by doing so, they actually claimed 4.75 million credits that they did not rightfully

earn which means 4.75 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions have been unaccounted for if we had not caught this with swift action. here's how the settlement closes the gap. hyundai and kia will pay a civil penalty of $100 million invest millions more to prevent future violations and they're also forfeiting more than $200 million of these credits that they did not earn and they now can no longer sell or use. now we take these violations very seriously as this is the largest penalty we have ever assessed under the clean air act. why is this so important? is a reflection of the large unfair market advantage that hyundai and kia captured by overstating their fuel economy rate. now the clean air act gave the authority as well as the responsibility to regulate

harmful carbon pollution that fuels climate change. while we are very committed to writing smart rules that are reasonable and affordable and achieve the kind of carbon pollution reductions we need we are also equally diligent in making sure we are implementing and enforcing those laws so that the reductions we need to protect public health and our economy are actually protected. not just a thing for vehicle fuel efficiency, but we can do this for many other sectors including the power sector. for anybody out there who may be wondering if we can successfully reduce carbon pollution by regulating into the clean air act you can stop worrying. we can and indeed we are. with that attorney general i'm happy to take questions with you and again, thank you. >> 1.2 million cars will be on the road for the next 115 years.

what does this do about the noncertified issue on noncompliance? >> to be clear that cars do not violate the emission limits but they were improperly certified because incorrect information was provided to the epa so effectively there was no valid certification. since then the companies have corrected their data and corrected the fuel economy figures as well as greenhouse gas emission figures. they are paying $100 million civil penalty is giving up $200 million worth of credits in fixing their system going forward so this won't happen again. [inaudible] >> the cars will remain on the road but the cars were not over the emission limit. the problem with the cars were they were misrepresented in having lower emissions and actually had. >> are you happy with subfive's

rebate program? >> as you put a paper rebate program has been affected in the last couple of years resulted in a couple hundred million dollars going to consumers. in addition consumers about multiple class actions to companies that are currently pending. we expect consumers to get robust relief. >> three companies at least including four company have had to restate mileage in much the same way as hyundai and kia. where do your actions stand with regard to those companies? >> i don't think i'm in a position to give you the exact status of all of those but i think it's important to remember that this settlement is about epa having a robust audit process so that if you look at this, we identified this misstatement of the fuel economy very early in the model year that we were first regulating under this licensing vehicle roll. we actually have the company go

out and the company restated those fuel economy standards the way we believe they should have been before the end of 2012. so this is about doing good auditing to doing good enforcement to looking closely at what you see here, this is by far the most egregious case that we have identified. this has to do with a number of models where 1.2 million vehicles were sold and those are model year's fiscal year 2012 and 2013. they actually varied in terms of their misstatement of fuel economy by between one and six miles per gallon. so we have caught the other discrepancies that those discrepancies have not been systemic in nature and have not resulted in the way in which the companies have done their testiy have not been anywhere near the egregiousness of what we are talking about today. >> u. of knowledge the

settlement but they suggested the misrepresentations were not intentional and epa regulations were confusing and involving and i'm wondering it sounds like these companies deliberately and intentionally misters up it -- misrepresented the allegations. >> where alleging that the overstated fuel economy but the most important thing is in addition to the 300 million pair paying in combination of both retiring those credits and not achieving the money that they represent and also in the direct time. this is also about them changing the way they actually do their business internally and both of these companies. because we believe that the way in which they did their testin g was systemically flawed. >> was it misconduct?

>> it was flawed and it was done in a way that would have made it inconsistent with the way they should be doing fuel economy inconsistent with normal engineering practices and inconsistent with any other companies that have been doing this. my point is that i am not claiming to have knowledge at what point in time but that the program wasn't set up as it should be and as a result of that it ended up with fuel economy standards that could not have allowed those vehicles to be certified. >> are you ruling out criminal charges by kia or hyundai as a result of this? >> the settlement to date deals entirely with liability and we have nothing in the settlement dealing with criminal liability nor can we comment on any ongoing or prospective law enforcement but let me point out specifically what kind of problems we are talking about here. one is the use of not the

average data but the best data. the cars were the fuel economy is the best three using the wrong tire sizes and for passing with a tailwind that do not turning around the other direction and testing them with the headwind so i think that speaks to the kinds of problems that we saw with hyundai and k kia. >> just to follow up you announced a $1.2 billion charges against auto suppliers around the world. you're investigating gm according to the company. do you think there are systemic problems in playing by the rules? >> i wouldn't go that far to say there are systemic problems that their issues we have certainly identified and i think what we have shown in the actions that you have mentioned is on behalf

of the justice department and our partners to aggressively look at that industry but other industries as well where we find violations of the wall -- law. >> can you update us on the status of the gm investigation as well as new york? >> a question not in dealing with this but safety flaws. we found it said to be an effective agency in catching these flaws in time. >> i think you know the regulatory scheme we have in place is a sound one. in fact we have made these discoveries and how these companies accountable enemies at the american people are safer and consumers are protected and you know we have i think the mechanisms in place to protect the issues we have resolve. also the companies have to make sure that they have within themselves a culture of

compliance and that's one of the things that i think rose from these kinds of announcements. >> mr. attorney general is found under the weekend eight decision was made to restrict -- with the justice department involved in any way with that decision and given your earlier comments about prohibiting news coverage what's your view about that? >> i'm not aware the justice department was involved in that request and i frankly don't know an awful lot about what the nature of the request was and how it would impact news coverage and things of that nature. what i will say is the transparency is always a good thing and the american people need to understand what happened for instance or what would happen or is happening in ferguson. anything that would artificially inhibit the ability of news gatherers to do what they do it i think is something that needs

to be avoided. >> over the summer president obama said we should not prejudge investigations in ferguson and last week he said they would hold the wholesale change coming. did you prejudge the investigation? >> i haven't prejudge anything. i'm aware of the investigation that we have ongoing. i think the comments i made a consistent with the briefings i have received but we revealed in a more fulsome by what changes need to be made at the conclusion of the investigation. >> there were certain targets like constructions. is that actionable by the justice department? >> i don't know. i'm not sure. i don't know all of the facts of what the nature of the request was, what interaction there was

between the requesters. >> is the justice department looking specifically at any red flags you are saying with early voting or anything that would cause you concern? >> we do monitors all around the country to make sure the american people have access to the ballot box. we will be releasing a list today of the jurisdiction to which we will be sending monitors and we will be very mindful of any anomalies that are important. >> how do you know that the numbers that car companies use were in error? do you dear own independent tester ute do you just out of their numbers? >> we do selective and random auditing. the challenge here is there is a reliance on car companies themselves providing us data on certain characteristics of a company so that when we do those audits and testing we can do it

consistently across each model year that we are actually certifying. in this case, we selectively audit to this but we went upstream and we took a look at what the companies were doing and we identified that the companies internal testing that provided characteristics which were critical for us to then repeat those tests were being done in a way that we felt was significantly tilting the scales to overstate fuel efficiency in ways that were systemic and am like any other car company. so we also take a look at what consumers are saying. we have a web site called fuel economy.gov that we manage with epa and the department of energy that allows people to ask questions, to look at fuel economy, work comes from, how we do it and they actually complain sometimes when they feel they are not getting good results. that allows us to also do some more selective auditing as a

result of that. so it's a give-and-take but one in which we feel there are auditing process and in this case it shows that we were able to catch a pretty early on, identify what the discrepancy wasn't take action to correct it. >> in november 2012 hyundai said there were -- vehicles and you are saying 1.2 million vehicles. does that mean he overstated beyond the date? >> it was 2012 and 2013 so if you remember model years 2013 come out in 2012 so when they restated they corrected the figures i believe for the model years already and this identifies both model years as private settlements. in addition to making the systemic, this is about a printed $50 million settlement here just making those internal changes but also significantly increased and more robust auditing for us in future years

that we could make sure this is actually going well. >> did auto companies lose sales because they were touting losing their rival ship to be overstated? >> that is not something in the scope of this agreement. we are here just to enforce the companies and their behavior. >> thank you, thank you for coming. thanks very much. >> we wanted you to take one more question. >> there's always one more question. sorry guys. i couldn't resist. >> we be taking corrective action on immigration? what aspect of the justice department are you examining that could change. >> we are in constant contact

with the white house for the possibility of executive action when it comes to migration changes, the need for comprehensive immigration reform is something that i think is obvious and we will see what the president will actually do any appropriate time. all of the actions that have been contemplated have been run through the justice department. we are interacting with the white house as we speak. >> good administrator mccarthy also take the question? [laughter] you can also import the clean power plants. can you go on a little bit about this and how would you audit? >> they are different under the clean air act that they are intricate ways of making sure that we can get carbon pollution reductions in a way that are reasonable and affordable. we use that through a credit

trading system in the transportation sector which make sure that cars can perform as people need them. they can be a wide righty of people, people's interests and different types of vehicles and we can still get those reductions. in the power sector it's not dissimilar, actually looking at tremendous flexibility as we proposed the clean power rule to allow states to figure out their energy exist today where the affordable reductions are and allow them the ultimate flexibility to design plans to receive the reductions that we think each state is able to afford. and so there are many similarities to the approaches we are taking. one is looking at where each auto manufactures and what they can do. in this case it's end state but this is a way of showing although we are providing

significant flexibility ap under the clean air act is going to achieve these reductions because they are federally enforceable and we put in place the kinds of programs we need to ensure compliance. >> what actions are there against the state? >> thank you.

>> next former interior secretary ken salazar who 10 years ago worked on immigration legislation is part of discussion on immigration policy. he is joined by a former immigration judge and the head of the national latino evangelical coalition.

from fordham university in new york city, this is an hour and 45 minutes. >> when we begin to think about who might serve as presenters and conversation partners this evening the first names that came to mind was secretary ken salazar. before his executive branch service as secretary of the interior and during his congressional service as a member of the united states senate secretary salazar gave evidence of his even-handed intelligence on the range of issues related to immigration. when he joined a bipartisan group of senators to construct cut comprehensive immigration reform is through set up 10 years later the nation has yet to come to some consensus on immigration.

in his expertise in this area secretary salazar will begin tonight by the broad issues that we as a nation are facing the current immigration crisis and hopefully shed some light on why we remain log jammed a decade after his initial efforts at reform. judge sarah burr are second presented this evening comes with decades of experience not only as a federal judge who ruled on immigration but also as an advocate with an extensive background working in immigration unit of the legal aid society in new york. in her remarks judge burr will address the practical challenges of responding to immigrant families with them a complicated context of u.s. law and public policy. finally we are pleased to have with us dr. gabriel -- the

president of the national latino evangelical coalition. during his presentation he will explore the moral issues at stake and draw from his on the ground experience, mostly his experience in recent months with building networks both religious and civic to consider the need of immigrant families assisted those who come from impoverished backgrounds. tonight you will learn a great deal about what indeed we owe immigrant youths and children and what pope francis recently called the humanitarian emergency now underway within the u.s. borders. and so to start us off it is my pleasure to call to the podium secretary ken salazar. [applause] >> thank you very much jim for the introduction and to all of

you who are here to discuss this issue of great importance not only to the united states of america but really to the world. i want to thank my fellow panelists, judge burr and i also want to thank -- because the last time i saw him working on this topic in the roosevelt room in the obama administration so it's great for him to be here and great for all of you as you come here together to try to figure out how we can move forward in the country and make sense of the immigration debate that's going on in our country today. i thought what i would do a start by comments by essentially labeling as i see the sprigg of time in american history. and i would essentially labor -- label our time in the immigration debate is a time of change for the united states of america.

the moral values and the legal framework that keeps us as a nation a beacon of hope and opportunity throughout the world somehow is suffering in a way and comprehensible to everyone. somehow we can't seem to understand the national imperative economics and national security and humanitarian values of this country. we need to come together to move forward with a a conference of reforms that make sense to our country and to its future. so i think about this time that we are at this impasse which is now more than a decade long impasse. i think that history will look back at this time period and they will say yes america has been in place and has been a country that has been in a march for more perfect union and on the way great pain in places

where we have seen our country deal with issues that have made suffering, about for the people that live in this land and reside here. those time periods of shame which i have studied as secretary of the interior in my part of service going back to time such as this country and its first 260 years of existence until the civil war. i think the annihilation of native americans before them and they been after them and how that wasn't still lives a stained on america as we move. i think about the jim crow era and the civil war the 1954 brown versus board of education decision in the u.s. supreme court and i think they are too the doctrine of separate but equal which justice warren said had no place in our constitution

under the legal protection clause. it was okay for us as a country to say we could divide ourselves among blacks and browns and whites and to be in separate schools and separate public facilities as people. those were times guests of shame. times of shame too when we is the world and as a nation did not recognize the rights of women to vote anticipate fully in the life of america. and yet. to those experiences the country has progressed and we have made progress and we have solved problems. we still have a long ways to go in on this particular issue on immigration there is a clarion call for us to take action as a country. in this day when you read the headlines and those of us that

follow the immigration debate you have to wonder what is happening in our country in this time of shame. now for the last 10 years and today some 12 million people live in the shadows of our society. those who are landscaping the gardens and the places that america calls america the beautiful from sea to shining sea have to live in the shadows of our society. those who are cleaning up hotel rooms as we go across this country including places like you're in new york, places who still have to live in the shadow of our society. those who work in some of the most difficult jobs where no one will work except for them, they live in the shadows of american society. i remember well as a u.s. senator working with senator kennedy and senator mccain and president bush trying to move forward with a comprehensive

immigration reform package. i remember visiting the meatpacking plant in greeley colorado were over 1500 workers were there that day tugging at my sleeve asking the senator this is something that is so important. what can you do? a few weeks later those families that depend depend upon that meatpacking plant were essentially torn apart as there was a raid on the plant in greeley. children came home from school that afternoon. they had seen their parents in the morning but they would not see their parents for a long time because they would be separated. i could tell you story after story about how this thing so much affected humanity and yet somehow we seem to be caught in this time of shame and a period period of paralysis and a period where we don't seem to be able to move forward. i often asked myself what is it

that keeps us from solving this problem? why is it that today 50,000 children and their families essentially in detention and jails and trying to find a holding place in this country and why it is that the 12 million people who are here do not create the kind of movement to solve this humanitarian problem right here in our own places. in my view the issue of immigration reform and what's happening with children and their families across the southern border today really represents the number one civil rights and humanitarian issue of our time. it represents the number one civil rights humanitarian issue of our time. so why is it then that we are not able to come to a way forward that creates more consensus among this country? why is there such division? why would a republican president like george w. bush who i've met

with three or four days after mine november 04 election along with now president obama and seven other republicans governor from a border state, why notwithstanding his efforts which were truly strong efforts on behalf of a republican president working with our bipartisan coalition, could we not get it done in 2006? and why was it when they came back to the next congress the same kinds of issues that seem to falter even more. i still remember the call from president george w. bush from the air force one the day after the final blow was taken and that it failed in the senate on the second time around. he said to me ken we fought the good fight but this will not be solved on our watch. and then why is it that this president barack obama elected with a very significant votes

among the latino community promising that immigration reform would be the issue which he would resolve in the first year of his presidency, six years later we are still in the same place we were back then? why is that so? both president bush and president obama are good people. i worked closely with both of them. they're both by friends. they have the right kinds of values to try to push an agenda that ultimately gets us to a solution so it is important what we are doing at the center for ethics to ask yourself why does it seem to be such a difficult issue to solve? i don't know but i -- that i know the answers but i would offer to observations as to why. i think the first is that we as a country have a very shallow

understanding of immigration and its roots here in this country. most people do not know the history here in new york of ellis island. the secretary of interior had the honor of visiting the statue of liberty and opening up the crown for the world to see. every time that i would go to the statue of liberty i would think about how our country became what this country became because of the immigrants that were drawn here because of the freedom and opportunity that was here. so we are a country of immigration if there goes including many of my former colleagues in the united states senate who would like to close the door behind them and to save that we don't want those immigrant people. they would refer to those who are attempting to come into this country to seek freedom and opportunity as those people is somehow they were lesser human beings. that is very true in the u.s.

senate and the u.s. house of representatives today on many of its members. and so i think that comes from the fact that they are representatives of the people and the people of this country so need to understand the history of immigration have given us the opportunities that we have today. and perhaps because of the impressive because of the crisis we have seen that kind of education we will see unfold in the years ahead as we strive for a solution to this major problem. secondly i believe that part of the reason, maybe the significant reason we have had such a difficult time to get conference of immigration reform is that there is a xenophobia with respect to mexico, central america and latin america. my family came here before the united states was in the southwestern part of this country and before there was a united states of america.

as president obama introduced me in the last time he introduced me he said we have got to remember that ken's family was here when the border -- as opposed to the other way around because my family helped found the city of holy faith in new mexico and 5098 before jamestown before plymouth rock 3200 years before the conclusion of the mexican-american war so my family. [speaking spanish] very deep roots, very deep roots. and yet when we look at immigration debate today it's all about creating a wall between united states mexico in all of latin america. i often think about how president reagan went to the berlin wall writing in his speech on the way over and decided to insert that famous phrase where he said mr. gorbachev, tear down this

wall. and yet here in the united states of america what we do is invest in building this huge wall between the united states and our neighbors to the south. in fact the latest bipartisan bill that passed the senate has some $45 million allocated to building more wall between the united states and latin america. i have often pondered why it is even in the debates where i spent two months on the floor with senator ted kennedy and senator john mccain and our colleagues who are working on the successful passage in 2006 of immigration reform why it was that people would insist on creating such a wall to the south but yet to the north, to the north we had 2000 miles between u.s. and mexico in nearly 5000 miles between canada and the u.s. and no wall to the north. in my view part of the immigration reality that we see

and some of the rhetoric of some of the poison that we see has its roots in some of that history, has its roots -- roots in that history that the southwestern parts of the united states was in fact a concord placed, a place where the rio grande and the colorado river and a place in between, they were supposed to be a wall there. in yet when you look back at the history of this country and those who have died in war and have done so much to serve this country there are cultural historical and economic ties that go back 400 years between the united states and all of latin america. and so how we fashioned the immigration solution has to take in my view a new understanding of the role that the united states of america should play in terms of our foreign policy. in november 2004 and the first meeting with president bush and

vice president cheney at the white house i said to the president into a small group of people over breakfast that one of the things we had to do with our foreign policy is yes we still need to pay attention to the east and west. yes we need to pay attention to what's happening in the middle east and other places around the world but that we have forgotten the importance of their the relationship with the united states of america to latin america. president bush about president kennedy and his efforts under the alliance for progress in the 1960s it was president kennedy's vision that will form an alliance with progress for all americans in the western hemisphere and yet somehow time after time president after president republicans that democrats somehow we have failed to do that. so much of the discord and poison we see around immigration reform in my view reflects a failed policy by the united states of america with respect to our neighbors to the south

and we need to re-examine that as we move forward with immigration reform. so those two are at least in my view central elements that contribute to the impasse that we see today. so now as i look at, say snl election day approaches, i know that there will be a time between this november in the end of the obama administration where there may be additional action that will be taken. i know this issue will continue to be debated and universities across the country like you're in florida and in many states texas and arizona you'd name it all over the country. so what is it that we could look forward to in my humble opinion? my humble opinion i think we can look forward to first of all. i hope that as the president has promised that barack obama delivers on its values and he says yes we are going to do something to make sure that the united states upholds its moral

and economic values to this country through executive action and authority that the president does in fact have. we must all remember that those are short-term kinds of actions. any executive order not the legal counsel to the governor. i work closely with three presents an executive order can be undone by the next president of the united states. so it's not a lasting solution. what needs to happen is we need to fix our immigration laws through comprehensive immigration reform in the united states congress needs to be involved in that effort. so when we see both leadership from united states congress after november. the last decade is not shown us that we see a lot of bold leadership in u.s. congress. so i think we can look ahead always that hope thinking that

members of the united states house of representatives and the senate will appeal to their better angels and create a a new comprehensive immigration reform package moving forward. i don't know that will happen so the third area where i think we would have to go is to make sure that we have the people of this country involved in this next chapter of civil rights. in my view this is such an issue. it's an issue that calls out for the kind of leadership that many of you here today bring to the table. the kind of leadership that the evangelical organizations which are headed by my good friend, it's that kind of leadership that hopefully ultimately will appeal to creating a better consensus on a good comprehensive immigration reform. so we still have a long ways to go. we still have a long ways to go. we cannot give up on it.

the issues that are at stake are so important. the economic issues for our country really depend on us being able to -- to this country from many places and that is why people like mark zuckerberg in so many others are so involved in trying to make sure that we have the right talents here in this country. it's why the dairymen and the agriculture groups and so many others want immigration reform issues fixed. it's also about national security. we don't have to think long about how we need to know who's coming in and out of our country and how we keep america safe here in new york and in the aftermath of 9/11. so it is also about national security. importantly i would say it is also a national moral imperative for our country. we need to make sure that we get it right. let me just conclude my comments by saying yes, it is a time of

shame and we have to recognize that here in the united states. at the time of shame but there have been others who have led us through tough times were we as a country have come out much better at the other end of the debate. that will happen here as well. i am reminded of cesar chavez and the united farm workers for the president and i had the honor of creating a national monument in his honor for apostolate forget that became the 400 unit of the united states park system. in his most famous of prayers a prayer for farmworkers were he says, let me know the plight of the most miserable so that i will know my people's plight. let me have the courage to serve others for in-service there is

true life. i'm reminded of dr. king for whom we now have an african-american monument or a monument of an african-american hero on the national mall of the united states of washington d.c.. i've had the honor of signing the permit and moving a project along in my time as secretary of the interior. if you visit washington and you go and see the most famous quotes from dr. king one of them is about the ark of the universe were he says the mark of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. the ark of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. the issue of immigration and children and families on the border is one such issue, one such issue. you all who will hang on to the

edge of that arc to try to help this country and its leaders understand the importance of having a system of immigration reform that makes sense to this country is one of those important imperatives that will fulfill the vision of dr. king that arc of the moral universe bends towards justice. thank you very much. [applause] >> good evening. i am very pleased to join in the conversation and to be invited to speak here this evening. what do we owe to immigrant youth and families? from my perspective, from having sat on the bench, we owed them

due process of law. it's a very simple phrase. it's an ambiguous phrase and it has a long history going back to the magna carta. due process of the law has been enshrined in our constitution. the fifth amendment and the 14th amendment. and what isn't due process of law? i believe that it means fundamental fairness to all persons in all proceedings both civil and criminal. let me just make that distinction between civil and criminal. immigration proceedings or civil proceedings and they are not criminal proceedings. in immigration proceedings, due process encompasses the right to

notice of the charges, the right to an attorney of your choice, the right to defend yourself or to contest the evidence against you, the right to an impartial arbiter, that being the judge, and the right to appeal if you disagree with the decision. in criminal cases, the right to counsel is absolute. if you cannot afford an attorn attorney, one is appointed for you at government expense. in civil cases you are entitled to the attorney of your choice that the government has no obligation to provide you with a free attorney. if you aren't proceedings you have to go out and get your own lawyer. in juvenile cases, those are the

cases of young people 18 years and younger, this right to counsel becomes crucial. how can a juvenile or a young person really understand the charges against them without a lawyer? how can they mount a defense or how can they question the evidence without an attorney? you are talking about a very formidable population. juveniles as a group are impressionable due to their young age. if they are particularly young they are legally considered to be an incompetent. there is the issue of whether they can properly testify in court and forget about whether they understand the charges. can they even tell their story in court?

another issue that immigration judges deal with in terms of juveniles as a vulnerable population is the very disturbing issue of trafficking. there are children who come for immigration court who are brought to this country to work. they are being trafficked for working or in the trade so the judge not only has to deal with the vulnerability of age but the possible vulnerability that you have a young person who is being trafficked. how do immigration judges deal with these dilemmas? in new york city which is the only venue that i'm cognizant of

in terms of my own practical experience, the immigration court set up a separate juvenile docket about 10 years ago. we started to see a real increase in the number of juveniles about 10 years ago and decided that these kids really needed to be separated from the general population and have their own docket. there are now four judges in new york city who hear juvenile cases in which the entire docket is juveniles. those judges are trained to deal with any younger and more impressionable group of people. the judges did not wear a robe. they tailored their language in court to be as clear and as simple as possible to deal with

the children in front of them. when asking the children questions, they ask very simple and nonleading questions, questions that did not suggest an answer. generally the judges try as hard as possible to make the proceedings stress free. all of that is important but the most important thing is that the children be represented by an attorney. we are very lucky in new york city because we have a number of legal aid providers. we have law schools to help. we have legal aid groups and thanks to all of their efforts, the children who appear at immigration court are all represented by lawyers.

so i would say that we are luc lucky. we are lucky to have the level of talent and commitment among the legal community in new york city to provide due process to these children. this is not so in many parts of the united states. there are many areas in this country where there are immigration courts in remote locations or in detained facilities where there is virtually no access to an attorney. not only is there a very limited access, but there is even more access to a pro bono or a free lawyer so that the real issue is

in covering the courts across the country, how were we going to afford due process to these young people? as a society i think we are judged by how we treat the weakest among us. society through congress, through laws has authorized the juveniles received a full and fair hearing. i believe that a full and fair hearing for juveniles necessarily requires the appointment of free counsel to all children. thank you very much. [applause]

>> thank you for the center on religion and culture and the center for ethics education. secretary salazar and judge burr. i couldn't agree more with judge burr's last comment. i think that a humane and moral society should provide free legal counsel for all children. the question i was asked is what do we go immigrant youth and families? you might ask why would you invite a -- to a jesuit organization to speak to this issue? i think it's because the faith perspective has been deeply involved and it's not lost. this is the tenth anniversary of the center for religion and culture. many faith groups including the

evangelical immigration table which i am part of the national latino coalition and the u.s. conference of bishops and the hebrew aid society and so many others. for more than 10 years has been providing a faith-based moral interfaith moral response to the immigration crisis. for us as faith leaders we don't establish laws to advocate for justice. ..

>> >> comprehensive immigration reform. the question is not does the country want immigration reform. it does. every survey from every political ideologies says it wants immigration reform. every major faith leader has

advocated for immigration reform. even an organization called bibles and badges and business leaders that looks for the help of that u.s. chamber of commerce that very progressive group of. [laughter] who advocated for comprehensive immigration reform. or from mark sucker burg over a year ago a bipartisan bill came to the floor for comprehensive immigration reform that is just sitting. [speaking spanish] the question is not does the country want immigration reform. the question is why are they not following the lead of the country? i submit to you there are

several obstacles many outlined by secretary salazar, their places by -- in the country that this argument does not make headway. recently, one month ago och a bill passed in the house of about the unaccompanied alien children. not a term i would use. i call them children created in the image of god. one called for action for children and the other did not lean heavily in the direction that the press and ask for help at the border. so part of that conversation that saddens my heart was

repealed of the reauthorization act. the to help the 60,000 children that came to the southwest border would be contingent on repealing the trafficking victims reauthorization act. protecting children who are trafficked many come from guatemala and el salvador. countries ravaged by violence, gangs, and corruption, poverty, with a corrupt organizations. what would make gesture and children away to flee violence and in the same

breath ask people in the middle east to takeover 1 million refugees? it is as if we had historical amnesia. give me your for your huddled masses. i submit to you real than a stronger moral argument and a more vigorous defense of children everywhere. i submit to you will be zero of them is common sense and comprehensive immigration reform we cannot say revalue families and then deport parents to another part of the world at best it is inconsistent and at worst hypocritical.

you might ask yourself where are the evangelicals? the next -- much to my pleasure many have advocated publicly and privately for immigration reform the national association of evangelicals has signed documents to say we with common-sense immigration reform. that insurers unification. second, we both the truth to the american public. these frivolous the arguments that somehow from the u.s. economy from those bipartisan policies are shared by condoleezza rise in immigration reform is over a $1 billion boom to the u.s. economy.

those economic arguments are falling apart but yet we still the have common-sense immigration reform. at the core of the issue there is a moral and spiritual issue to'' the greatest thinkers to pronounce it st. augustine. [speaking spanish] that is the question. what is the highest good coming to common-sense comprehensive immigration reform and to see the refugee children running away from the open veins of latin america? jesus, a great teacher, in that great last servant of his in matthew 25, there is

a part that is translated in english it is funny that the world -- the word of the ethnicities is translated as nations but to be judged by god he will ask them when i was hungry to feed me? when i was naked did you close may? when i was in prison dat visit me? i was a stranger. did you welcome the? the nation's will say to jesus we take you hungry and naked and thursday as a stranger to respond in the way only a great teacher can as you did to the least of these my sisters and brothers as you have done to

me. the question is what we do to the immigrants we do to ourselves. what do we owe our country? secretary salazar quoted president kennedy he is known for two great books one is "profiles in courage" courage is in high demand and low supply. one is a nation of immigrants. when read don't invest we do not invest of prosperity in the nation. second there is though wonderful greek word cross fatality over in the book of hebrews that says never

forget the king james version at seminary they introduced me to other versions. [laughter] to never get to entertain strangers another said be hospitable the hospital to strangers love of the stranger. to be consistent, not just to welcome the rich diversity you don't just want to be tolerated but celebrated. is an ophelia. people say we cannot sustain this it is not economically viable.

even the words of st. dagestan ring to west -- saved the guston bring to us not because of pragmatism that because they're right with morality. we will see what happens after the midterm election and we will see what president obama does with the executive order but the truth is for us to treat the children he mainly with a comprehensive common-sense humane immigration reform that best reflects of our faith and moral values and commitments has children of god. thank you. [applause]

>> thanks to all of you for your presentation. we put the programs into two parts and now we move into the conversation stage. to lead the conversation that if you watch on gentle folk -- channel 40 was on it tonight. the journalist and the new york area the co-host of the weekend edition and a longtime journalist and television media also writing for the hartford courant.

[applause] seneca our problem with local news is not about broadcasts but enough about me a. [laughter] added never broadcast just before this out the -- mr. salazar presentation and analysis is done combing my hair. [laughter] by a role here is to facilitate discussion. as a journalist i can frame a couple of dialogue points. just to raise some of the issues.

to ask secretary salazar that this is nothing short of a civil rights movement and a humanitarian issue. and to change the law to use the rules so deserves what immigration reform but how to get there. it is a chilling effect because of the inaction in washington. there was a poll recently that many one comprehensive immigration reform they just cannot agree how that should take place. the race right now when colorado trying to retain their seats even in the hispanic community many a

much more likely to raise concerns that an immigration reform. so it does require this civil rights movement to a groundswell of bowman towne being lost even when it is most effective. >> the fact is there's a lot going on in the world today. the issues of the middle east and ukraine but the issue itself will not always still have a broken border 12 million living in the shadows and 50,000 and those growing at 90,000 so the issue will not go away. bedroom me far change -- the

drumbeat for change in terms of the civil rights of this country but i am confident it will happen and i will also say i know this is not a political forum but how people define being told comprehensive immigration reform package requires educated citizenry to see what they talk about. that the difference between the two candidates is night and day. it is important the american public cut -- cares about the issue and the evangelical organizations really understand what it is we are debating about in this important matter.

>> can it be heard? >> as of a pastor i transacting hope so you have to have that capacity of resilience with the anti-apartheid movement the suffrage lesson of what it takes to move things but the frustration in the mentioned earlier will come to the of floor. reelect leaders to solve problems i don't know for how much longer the u.s. public will tolerate gridlock from the most intractable problems of our date with the uac's of the border is directly related to inaction and as a

secretary mentioned earlier it failed for policy development and sustainability of latin america. i ask a family what will you do for a living? i am amazed illusionist. what we did for in the house and the senate and be mindful of authority pass something one year ago so that house republicans a and speaker boehner said they had principles laid out. so when will we have leadership? and when will the country allowed for leaders to dole's all problems? >> and with the white house

as well? >> remember the number, 71. those that voted for president obama of. that is my favorite number at the white house. [laughter] >> we will see what happens in terms of executive action but clearly and that is based on lack of connection that what happens where that latino electorate is? >>. >> i don't think there is anything that i could add to >> for that red herring or that passion of people who

were not to dig into the border is an articulated with the soulful -- infrastructure is too much under strain if there is that unchecked process to become legalized? >> you raised a red flag to say there is a heavy burden here. but to be fair there are also those that should not have been there but you did raise that red flag that we having a tough time for pro so framed that discussion that people were genuinely worried that the united

states just keeps saying yes that puts a strain on us. >> in terms of the courts courts, historically we have been underfunded. that is a problem. i think immigration is so political. there is the inability to use think through the consequences of stopping people to put them into proceedings then what happens next. there seems to be there is more fervor for building up the border, there seems to be more for apprehending people without thinking through the consequences of what you are doing that you put them in a court before

judges in a system that is operating to the best of its ability but gravely underfunded and understaffed for the number of cases. this is generally true now comes to the forefront with the incredible number of children at the proceedings. this is nothing new for immigration but the present crisis has highlighted this problem. >> i would make two points. one is the issue of the impact of consequence of undocumented children in the united states and families has been long debated but mine comes in the form of a

negative to the economics through the immigration and even with the chamber of commerce and leaders in the business world see the positive economic impact if we have a system. so when people raised that issue, second in response we do think the uac's issue across the border allows those to be essentially raise a flag that says our border is broken and we need to build more walls across the border. they use that is evidence but the reality is looking at what is happening today and guatemala and honduras and el salvador you have

people who live in very dire conditions there is a reality that the manifestation is a failed policy over multiple administration is made with the relationship of latin america. >> as a pastor that children are used as political ping-pong spur co i mean that in the basic judicial christian tradition of lament and beyond.

to the issue is the consequence of inaction we deal with the 21st century immigration challenge with 21st century immigration laws. so with seems to meet everybody knows the system is broken. then when there are manifestations we go back to the system that is broken. and humanly speaking this argument about economics is from all sides of the political spectrum with very few exceptions as a conservative columnist said i think on fox news or one of the channels we could easily integrate the 50,000 kids into the u.s. system and benefit in though long

run. see you are quite right to say it is a red herring but even if the good cost us more i have to go with what cost more because it is the right thing to do. >> so talked-about the application of due process talk more about that inconsistency that you referenced that is a like there was a fundamental approach with those inconsistencies that you mention the net due process application why is there such a difference? >> are you referring to the difference between counsel?

>> that you said the offer a little more robust but was looking for the disparity of that fundamental approach. >> the real problem lies is the fact that through case law, did you process if you're a criminal defendant your in tired -- and title to a lawyer and no expense. but the theory in civil cases like immigration you are not entitled to the freeze the lawyer is you're not facing imprisonment and the threat of imprisonment is what triggers the right to the free attorney if you cannot afford one.

but obviously whoever framed that argument was not thinking of the consequences of immigration law which can result in possible deportation. is that as bad as imprisonment? yes. it is. possibly much worse. i think unfortunately the distinction still exist. but i do hope that the lot can move forward to you deal with this very harsh situation with children are not guaranteed a right to an attorney in immigration court to encompass the right to counsel for the children by the government. i am hoping situations like

this which appeal to a broad band of people, most nobody would want to see a child appear unrepresented but that can have been. it doesn't in in new york city with probably the most advanced city in the country with immigration and attitudes that there are many places along the border in arizona and new mexico and utah and places where conceivably children face charges without a lawyer. it is unfathomable but presently they are not constitutionly