we can ensure the sound development as the resources are developed. transparency is a key component of good governance and we are actively involved in the extracted industry transparency initiative. to support transparency and management of natural resources. through the civil society they work together to produce reports that disclose information about a country's natural resources and it was allowing the citizens to see how much the natural resources are worth and how they are used. currently there are 18 countries in africa that are compliant and four of them are the candidates countries. we have heard about the extent of the poverty in africa and we are not only working through power africa that we are involved and the multilateral efforts such as sustainable energy for the initiative of the

united nations and the world bank and we hope to track to expand the generation transmission and distribution all key sectors. as an active participant in the team focused on the policy framework to improve the enabling environment and reduce the risk for investors through the consistent diplomatic engagement through the embassy's and with the embassies in washington, the state department is working to ensure that the transactions that have the emphasis needs to structural policies and governance changes that will encourage even more investment. we have positioned a senior career foreign service officer in the region who is working with our embassies to enhance and focus our diplomatic efforts while minimizing the cost. we are also planning regional training sessions sessions the world created the energy knowledge and skills of our economic officers in the embassies and in the region.

we are very excited about the beyond the grid and and initiative that of the sub initiatives have as part of power africa. and we are working globally as well as in africa looking at the missing business technology models that will help provide energy access to the rural populations. and we have helped link between cover africa and the sustainable energy for the initiative within its goal of universal electricity access for the 1.2 billion people around the world in sub-saharan africa that don't have access to electricity by 2030. very ambitious goal but one is consistent with the objectives and where the european union and others are making large commitments to increase in africa. provides expert advice to strengthen the south africa power pool and the association of energy regulators that

oversee this developing market. we see regional power pools as critical to creating the larger markets that can attract investment and tap the diverse resources in africa. we have our unconventional technical engagement program working with countries to seek to help them to develop and look at the potential for their unconventional natural gas resources and do so in a sustainable in a safe manner. we are working with many partners around the world for instance the renewable energy agency that has a strong emphasis in africa and the initiative that will link with many of theirs and improve the synergy with power africa. in conclusion mr. chairman, sub-saharan africa stands at a crossroads. expensive renewable resources and the emerging oil and gas sector will either be an integral part of bringing life to the continent and lifting it out of poverty or it'll it will be a catalyst for instability and corruption. we feel the administration and

congress have an opportunity to engage across the spectrum to engage these challenges. i look forward to your questions. thank you very much. >> thank you for the testimony. i would like to begin with a few questions and then yield to my colleagues. first of all what country has prioritized and if you could just go through some of those countries were some of the obstacles and challenges that we and others are facing in trying to assist and/or that u.s. and other investments meeting the challenge or are there gaps and has enough been allocated to this endeavor to make it happen sooner rather than later attacks is that on a national governments or the state governments were both and do you find a national government that is unwilling to be as transparent as we would want them to be and we look to bypass and go to a state because obviously in the u.s. it is the

state and local government that carries the heavy burden of providing electricity. is that model being replicated in africa in terms of the electrification we have state-of-the-art electrification and i visited virtually every electricity plant in my state, most of them, not all of them, over these years, and they obviously have many environmental safeguards. and they insure that what comes out of the gemini does not lead to disasters healthwise because of pollution. are those kinds of best practices being incorporated and what we do it seems to me that there is so much on the shelf because of the capability and the knowledge that it would be a shame if that was lost and if we could spend a moment on that as well how and where are the power leaders especially in the equivalent to the court, the people that actually run the generators and where do they get their education, are they partnering with companies here

or is it something they are picking up in college, junior college, who has trained those that will run the plans so that they will be run safely and effectively and then finally to be on the grid it is intended to facilitate investment in a small-scale energy solutions do you think such projects could interest more entrepreneurs to take a greater interest in creating the means to supply the communities in africa if you could speak to those questions i would appreciate it. >> thank you for your question mr. chairman and for your leadership on this entire topic and introducing the legislation. each country is in a different place but we have seen a number of countries really focus on increasing the electrification and we see this example as is

witnessed. both governments realize that the lack of electricity is holding back their growth and there are a number of -- i won't go through the whole list but a lot of countries realize how important this is to their growth and their health-care system and education system and they are looking to do more in this area. that is part of the concept to work with the government and private sector investors to solve them. we have seen cases where the investors in the united states and elsewhere try to do the deals and run into a roadblock and that's where we say how do we solve that. >> is that something that you could summarize and provided to the committee so that we get a sense of what you are truly

encountering and then we could to try to be helpful with those governments? >> we could do that. in terms of the local and the national government, obviously there are often national policies that set up the policy and the entire country that there are a number of local aspects but also come to play, and we work with all of them in the same roadblock approach to find out what are the challenges and how do we deal with that. the question of the environmental and social safeguard is very important. and you are absolutely right. we don't need to reinvent the wheel. we need to use state-of-the-art and so all the projects for instance if there is a component that involves the development banks, each of them has their own policy for checking these things and working with governments the governments and making sure that the projects

fit those standards and don't introduce some really poor practices. in terms of the education and training there are local institutions that offer in some countries training and in other cases people have education for the united states or europe but it is an area where there are shortfalls and there is a long-standing partnership and another involving u.s. regulators and they work in combination and they work with people in the individual countries for this very reason. and we need to try to increase the skill level because there are definitely gaps and we need to keep working on that. >> do those people come here to learn or do we get to play

their? >> there quite >> depending on the circumstances. >> it is a modest sized very economical. we get requests from different countries and it's not restricted to africa that africa has been a big participant and then we look at them and match them with the different utilities. i don't know off the top of my head that they utility in new jersey or california or whatever but they match up with utilities that have the expertise that they need and then they have these exchanges and interactions. >> last before i turned my colleagues absolutely beyond the grid, having the local organizations and entrepreneurs seeing the business opportunities is part of the objective and that is sometimes where the credit guarantees will

help them deal with the risk and introduce them to interesting business opportunities, which they know very well because in some of these remote areas they might know better than a large company that i'm sure that my colleagues have things to add. >> thank you. >> i would add a couple of points if i may. first of all, the -- i think that we all acknowledge the difficulty of providing broad answers because of the diversity of the different circumstances and in deed the rural versus urban but with that danger i will attempt to respond. in regards to the question about the cutting-edge development of

the power system one of the areas we felt is important and we worked on from different vantage point and missions is the business of utilization of associated gas from oil development projects. the historical experience of the wiring up of the natural gas is understandable when infrastructure is lacking, but when it manages to be lacking then for the protected projected period of time in the decades come up and that is really a critical lost opportunity. as the, one of the things that we have been focusing on in the policy dialogues with african countries, and indeed one of the things we are focusing on a third level of identification of the mutual interest between u.s. companies and opportunities in

certain african countries is this area of gas capture for the generation together with the trade and development agencies december the department of energy organized a reverse trade mission that took leaders from a couple different african countries to the houston texas area for a series of meetings for the companies involved in gas development. so we think that there is an area for the potential opportunities. in regards to the po and the grid initiative with the entrepreneurs in the department of energy perspective, one aspect of this that we have been focusing on is the importance of proper performance of products

in the marketplace, so it is of course easy to spoil the market when you have substandard products be they for off grid or four solar lanterns and other areas the deposit of energy has worked and so we are working with our colleagues at the aib in particular to look at this question of how to make sure that off grid lighting systems and solar systems in hybrid systems that are a mick's of renewables in either diesel or natural gas, but these are they actually perform in the way that it is advertised so then you see a healthy development of that opportunity going forward. last on the issue of the training i would say from our perspective this is an area that is of a huge interest to u.s.

companies but also in terms of gaps. lots of headroom opportunity for growth. i'm sure that members of the committee have had the experience as i and my colleagues traveling throughout the gulf region and when one is in the united arabs or other countries where there've been historical long-lasting education training and company relationships with that translates into is not only high quality energy development that also translates into a huge opportunity for u.s. companies because in many cases, our counterparts are familiar with u.s. standards, u.s. approaches, u.s. offenders. so huge opportunity for growth and it is an area that we are

looking to try to develop some ideas. thank you. >> may i make a few points? five points if planes if i can shine into the gaps and the challenges. first is in the sense that the common problem throughout the subcontinent is related to the financial position of the utilities. secunda since one of the challenges his house to strengthen their regulatory environment and the pricing environment and move towards more commercial utilities because then the investors will no they have a credible offtake for the power they are generating and clearly we have done a lot of work on the power purchase agreements developing standardized approaches and we have been very active in this area and that is very important. at the same time though we need to have a solvent financially viable energy system in order to have a long-term investment. that is necessary to develop the sector.

second is the point about the integration of the gas and upstream issues in the power sector to the important challenges. you have different ministries like nigeria, and you have to in a sense try to work to help them be a catalyst to at least do better planning so that you can ensure that the oil and gas that is being developed in the country is going to be available to meet the needs of the countries. donna is an interesting example where they want to develop a love of capacity and get the oil and gas development has been slow and coming. the point about the urban and subnational i think is a very important point because the process is creating the centers of buildings and industries and

the mayors and the subnational leaders of the entities are becoming more and more important as the process goes. we've talked about urbanization but it's still at really a really embryonic stages in sub-saharan africa that was then 50% and even by 2030-year-old they going to have 54% urban so there is a lot of rapidly growing and that working with the cities and urban areas is a very important area as an energy efficient c.. the fourth area is the entrepreneurial development and local institutions. here i think in many cases it is very important to work with the local business community which we are and so how can we develop more capacity and receptivity in the local banking system so that they can lend for some of these

projects so that it isn't just dependent on international capital coming in because you know that much of the international capital particularly the private and the venture capital sees a huge risk for the local banking sector becomes important and we've seen the local banking system can play a key role then finally there are a lot of actors playing in this field. i think it's important and we of course are working closely with the world bank and african development bank and other donors to try to have a coordinated approach that addresses the range of the gaps institutionally and otherwise that we are trying to leverage our money effectively in that process. >> thank you very much. >> thank you all for your testimony.

as i said in my opening statement, i am a big supporter of cover africa. but i want to raise a few issues concerned about cover africa so i belief that you were mentioning the african entrepreneurs. i wanted to know to the extent that the diaspora here in the united states was getting involved or what kind of outreach for a couple of questions specifically but also small businesses. i constantly encounter small business people who want to figure out how to be connected and just can't quite make the connection. you mentioned the trade mission and i wonder if there are any others planned. it seems like reverse trade missions don't quite make it or

maybe i'm just not aware of them so that's another issue and then i want to ask about the development of the infrastructure on the continent so why don't i start with those questions to ask >> i will start but i'm sure that my colleagues will add. we agree with you that we need to not only start but continue with a lot of outreach to reach all different sectors of interested people, small u.s. businesses, large u.s. businesses and so forth, so we are making progress but we have so much to do. already where there has been the interest i understand it is an ethiopian american business that is great to be manufacturing smart meters for the electricity companies and i hope that there

will be additional success in the days ahead and ask you elude to many members you know very well the business opportunities they've accumulated capital and so they are suited to participate so in terms of being connected, we have created a one-stop shop on the website and there is a page but in the worst case somebody can send an e-mail and then we used a one-stop shop to reach out to all of the government entities depending what the circumstance is and make the connections because we don't have -- we have a few people shouldn't have to hunt all over the u.s. government to figure out who to talk to. secunda that is why we created a one-stop shop. we will direct them and say that

it shouldn't be that difficult for the american taxpayers. >> i really would like to help you with this as well. so reaching out to the congress others might want to be involved those that were interested. >> i will take you up on it. >> another issue that has come up and it cannot actually win the bill was being heard here in the committee and that is to the extent that as we are developing the infrastructure would extend is it getting into the communities, so there is a concern from some people that most of the infrastructure is going to be built into cities to help businesses which is wonderful, but considering that people in the rural areas are -- or that are even right in the city come in the neighborhoods

they do not have electricity. what always horrified me was the idea of women giving childbirth using the lights on their cell phone to the letter a baby so i'm wondering about that. >> the models for the electrification are changing a lot. it is a revolution that is occurring in which the drop in prices for solar systems and the advances in the telecommunications and cell phones. i just came back from dead bangladesh. some of the walls and the approaches that are being taken i think are going to be extremely important for africa because you have a population that without access to have

small, relatively small loads and the economics of extending the grade by utilities that don't have the money to do it or don't necessarily have the same kind of commitment to extend the systems because they are struggling to meet urban requirements. >> in urban i was referring to the neighborhoods. >> but i think that it's related to the decentralized approaches. >> it was about the entrepreneurial companies who are at the leading edge of these technologies where we are working with the california companies that have developed the approach and bangladesh and that is what i see going on in the u.s. that we can begin to

focus on to take a closer look at africa in the market opportunities. >> so you are telling me that it is a part of the initiative. >> we are excited beyond the grave because we are in the early stages but a lot of the companies have come up and expressed interest and involvement and i think if we get the right strategies we can indeed help accelerate the commercialization for africa. >> maybe you can give me the name of the company in california. a couple of areas another that gets concerned a lot is what extent is the power africa looking at renewables? in other words it is a controversial issue whether it's going to focus on fossil fuels, so to what extent from anybody,

and then i have a final question after that. >> thank you for the questions. first of all in relation to the reverse trade missions, we would be happy to talk about the trade and development agency that lead into the organization of them. our agencies and others typically provide technical depth and some of the relationships with companies that help make the most effect is that i would be happy to take the interest in knowing what more do they have planned. you can tell them to come to los angeles. >> there is a representative in

los angeles working on an effort called making the global local ticket to the shins to the cities across the united states. thinking global local so some of this may be happening and we can get the details back to you for the record. concerning the role of renewables in africa i mean, the first point the approach that we are taking is very nonspecific as the technologies are going to be different answers that work in different contexts. beyond the grid is all about figuring out where the opportunities are and in the storage the hybrid systems that involved in making up the renewables and fossil fuels and

the generating capacity for when there is not the end or sunlight this is one of the things the department of energy has been able to make a specific contribution to power africa's capability by providing some of the expertise of the laboratories in peace arenas. already i think it is worth calling out that the pledges from the private sector partners to beyond the grid initiative are considerable to more than a billion dollars of the coming five years so while we don't have today specific things of this site ... i don't think that this is a very promising area for the growth of the power africa in the area where there

will be a lot of relevance. it's not just the village setting in africa where the off grid and microbrewed systems are relevant and that is equally true in the settings in the united states and alaska for example and even in the very long rural settings such as the micro grade that is a separate grid system for example that we are looking at in places as a very, very highly urbanized parts of the country where in times of great instability, and other commonality with the african grid systems you can iowa involve a particular part of the grid in order to protect critical load. ..

whether it's wind in kenya o.r., of course hydra resources are still very important for the continent. and in some cases even solar power for larger power grid connection applications. i was struck at the africa ministerial status about how consistent the ministers were in stressing the important role that they saw renewables play in a diversified energy mix. i don't know -- and so i think many countries have moved, moved

to develop the incentive framework for interconnection of renewable energy. i think in some cases clearly they're looking at a mix of both renewables and natural gas to have a clear fuel system. and i think that varies widely depending on whether you're talking about north or south or central. >> thank you. is it mr. elkind? >> i will answer anything including, hey, you. >> just don't call you late for dinner, right? okay. you said in opening remarks that you want to the meeting with of about 500 participants, and i was just going and try to get situated. where was that? >> thank you for the question. this was the u.s.-africa energy minister which took place in early june in ethiopia. it was hosted by the government

of ethiopia, co-chaired by the secretary of energy, dr. moniz, and the ethiopian minister of energy and water. >> okay. and then mr. postel -- close enough? okay. you said that nigeria recently had privatized five generation companies in 10 distribution companies, is that correct? >> correct. >> how long ago was that? >> over the course of the last 12 months. >> so the government itself had been run under a generation of distribution facilities? >> yes, they had. >> what percentage does that equate to in nigeria? is that half of the facilities, a third? >> i can give you the precise off -- answer of the top of my head. i think it is half if not a bit

more. >> in 12 months hasn't been a viable function? are they functioning properly with little -- i own a business that was impossible to be without any problems. so he is grinning like a possum, yellowjackets. what does that mean? are they operating without problems? >> my colleagues has more information but my understanding is each company is in a different situation in a sense of some operating a irbil, some of a few hiccups but i would characterize them as growing pains, but in general a lot of operations went forward. >> i do want to add for our ranking member that texas has its own grid if you come to texas, 85% of the state is covered by -- is want you to get the grid in africa, come see us. next question -- you are stuck on the possum eating

yellowjackets? mr. postel, from your notebook -- from my notebook, note about you, you said you would develop a plan to first international securitization of futuristic bowls without a corporate guarantee. >> yes, sir. >> explained that. >> this was a financing for the government of jamaica in 1988. it was the first new funding they had obtained from the private sector in something like 13 years because there'd been rescheduling. and basically every year the receiving payments from at&t for telephone calls that the ds for was making to jamaica. and we felt that that was protect both enough to give them the money up front. so we raise money in japan and we did that financing. it was all repaid. >> can you do the same thing

with electrification and african? >> i'll have to think about that. >> that's what i thought was. dr. ichord, i think you also said in your remarks governance and transparency were key security concerns. protection of the people environment from sec impacts, and it should be, i think i was writing fast and furiously although that's a bad turnout, isn't it? i was writing quickly. what does that mean, sector impacts? >> i think obviously as we know from our experience here the environmental impact of offshore and upstream oil and gas is a very important area to develop the capacity of these countries. it was in that context may be sector impact is little too vague, but that's what we were

talking -- increasing the capacities in the environmental, that's management area. >> you also said something about extractable -- >> its international initiative, the transparency initiative. i should the u.s. is participating. we are a candidate now. the integrity apartment has the lead on it and it's basically to enhance accountability in terms of this important sector and the revenues and -- >> that's going to be important. you said also, member pages of africa or particular country was at a crossroads. i think africa had emerging oil and gas market, i guess resources. quantified that force percentagewise. 50/50? 60-40?

>> well, i think that clearly there are a dozen or more countries where oil and gas it developed, some far more developed like and go and nigeria. others -- angola. others are in the early stages but i think it's a lived too early to say exactly what that mix will be. you certainly have countries like tanzania and mold -- mozambique we have a world scale gas resources being developed that will been open up lots of opportunities for them to have a significant gas role in their economies. at the same time for the electric power sector, the economics of many of these renewable energy resources look very attractive, especially compared to oil which many of the countries, you know, you're having to use oil to generate and have cost of 30 cents a

kilowatt power for power, like in ghana which has these oil because been able to get gas in nigeria in the pipeline. >> i looked at a map of africa doing a search for pipeline infrastructure and looks like most, what limited pipeline infrastructure they have is primarily in the north. i don't know if your family withouwiththat met or not. >> the west africa pipeline, and that is -- >> runs from algeria to nigeria. >> darts right. the problem has been there's been a severe gas shortage because internal policies haven't given the incentive for the development and, therefore, countries like ghana and others on the pipeline route have not been able to get the gas supplies through the pipeline. >> is there a robust pipeline industry and/or association in africa that's pushing for the installation of pipelines? do we have property rights and

how does that play if there is? >> congressman weber, there is i think a natural unavoidable tension that will have to play out here. and, frankly, was one of the really core elements of our discussion in june at the ministerial meeting i just referred to in response to your question. and that is as one sees development of the oil and gas resources, particularly and some of the frontier provinces, east africa in particular, how much of that is for domestic versus export? the international oil companies want to meet demand in the country for the operate because that's of them, that has and will affect that is very beneficial but they also need predictability in terms of off

take. so your question is there a robust existing vision, i would say no. there is a great deal of interest and some fairly elaborate it, fairly ambitious ideas, goals in terms of development of east african gas high plains. for example, to take gas to power generation in south africa from mozambique, tanzania, one big example. by the open issue which still has not yet played out is whether the steps can be put in place, the right policies, the right laws that give the investors enough predictability so that they will put down, you know, tens and tens of billions of dollars for really

multi-decade investment. >> that brings me to, well, i've got a question about ranking of the most favorable countries. because clue some countries are going to be better candidates than others on investing into infrastructure. but before i go there, mr. elkind, you also said that you also got to focus on performance of products in the micro place making sure all great systems -- marketplace, making sure all systems perform. when you say and off grid system, described one of those to ask. >> so a small household or village level system that might include one or more solar panels, perhaps paired with

either storage capacity, battery systems, or a fossil fuel, diesel or other fossil fuel generating system to use when the sun is not up, the wind is not blowing. that through to highly efficient lamps, refrigeration for food and medicine to those kind of applications. >> is that to see if someone has a house out there with solar panels that is going to be an effort to have regulatory rules in place that they have to meet certain efficiency requirements the? >> no, sir. the point here is that if -- there are lots of examples one can see. for example, in solar lanterns where there were products, there are products that are being sold

in a number of marketplaces, ma including a number of african countries, where the claims for the performance of the product simply don't match what the product actually does. in our context we call that false advertising. and so when the countries are saying how do we think about the technical challenge of knowing what product actually does what it says, that's an area where we have experience in the united states and can help to make that experience available. again, it's at the request and the point is not to allow fraudulent claims in the marketplace. >> i don't mean to speak for -- permit one of the things you said the last thing you want to happen is as they're developing these markets they don't want to get burned with that product. if they don't work, forget it, nevermind. i guess all three of you, i will let my last question that i

alluded to earlier, a ranking of the most favorable countries. i'm going to have to believe and to all done a lot of fathers, i haven't, but just at a glance to be a lot of factors that are going to influence whether they are a good candidate, population, typography, gas, oil, pipe line failed to be. education resources. do you have that workforce you can come in there and you can train how to do this. and, of course, i mentioned earlier property owners, ownership, can you own property? is there a system in place to take over, to condemn property if you will for a pipeline, i mean a right wing which there is but the timing come is the right for the country? stability, is it a stable system of governance? those are just seven things i came up with. you rank companies which will be the best candidate for investment in their

infrastructure? >> congressman, thank you for your question. it sounds like you were at some of these meetings with these kind of things were discussed via listing all of the -- >> no. nsa was there. i just got the tapes. i'm sorry. >> we don't have a public listing per se, but in the first phase of power africa we did very carefully through a rigorous interagency process discuss which would be the six focused countries. the factors you describe are indeed many of the things that we looked at to try to assess who would be the good partners. and we will go through a similar process as we think about the expansion. one of the ones, there's plenty to say but all of them but one of the ones i would just spend a moment on is the whole countries commitment. because as some of the others testimony delivered to come if you're trying to have viable

electric utilities, if you're trying to solve some of the problems that are private sector investors have encountered in trying to do viable deals, you've got to have commitment to do things differently. so that was one of the many components but that was one of the most important components to make sure that we really had committed partners who do this in partnership with us and the private sector. >> congressman, i can't give you a ranking but i mentioned a number of the countries that we are working with on the oil and gas side that are different, at different stages in their development. some are more gas prone to others look like they have good oil potential like angola, et cetera. i think the countries, we have a range of companies, ngos

included that are working in these areas. that they're assessing the risk and assessing the commercial viability of these resources. there's a lot of exploratory drilling is planned in some of these countries. so people have i think, i think this is over the last couple of years there's been a lot of activity in this area. something is going to be a couple years before the sort of shakes out in terms of are the biggest opportunities come up but clearly mozambique in tanzania are ones that everyone is looking at, both for export as well as for look at the potential for east africa and the whole, including in south africa the potential for that gas to have come and develop the infrastructure. we recently had come there was recently a seminar we had as part of the ministerial that looked at the east africa gas infrastructure opportunities.

that was done by the columbia energy center that does a report on the. i'd be happy to send you on that issue. i think on terms of the issue of the investment climate, the question of whether countries, whether investors were willing to come in without sovereign guarantees is a key factor. and in some countries i think investors are saying in kenya we can do that. we were willing to come in without a sovereign guarantee because the countries you won't. so you have to look, on the innocent partial risk guarantees and other mechanisms that the world bank or others can put in place that will in a sense mitigate some of the risk of the investment. >> okay, thank you. i recognize mr. stockman. >> i thank you for the panel to come out today on a friday, and dr. ichord, according to your testimony you been in government

for 40 years and you mention you in bangladesh. is that a good 40 years? my question is when i was over there in nigeria, they were mentioning some policies, and i'm wondering, you had standards. are there any standards in which events into action by the state department which is predicated on the governments social policies? or is it strictly benign interpretation of the capabilities? in other words, when i was in nigeria they were trying to free the girls that were kidnapped and the u.s. military said when he to get permission to our government to get them and facilitate information. and it was denied because of the interpretation of the presidents leadership in nigeria. i'm wondering do you have a similar restriction on governments such as uganda and nigeria in sync we'll get involved because of their social policies? or is that a separate issue?

>> i think as a look at our overall engagement in the countries, we work very closely with the ambassador and the indices in ss and the political situation, the severity of the issues if there are social or human rights issues, and make a decision on a case-by-case basis. i think it's hard to generalize other than to say in the sense we're not just sort of pursuing energy for energy's sake. it is part of our broader foreign policy interest in that it takes into account a lot of these -- >> could you give me, maybe you know off the top of your head, is nigeria or uganda, are the restriction you have in terms of working with him on energy? >> i think right now, we started in uganda early on in terms of the energy government and capacity initiative, and we've

done a lot of work on geophysical side, environmental land-use planning, et cetera. i think the situation now is we have put on hold any further work in uganda. >> that's because of the social policies? so we have scaled back our activity. we're looking at whether we can proceed now, so -- >> but i was asking him is that because of social policies that you scaled back to? >> i think was a combination of things but i will have to get back to you on this. >> i appreciate that. i think would be very helpful. i think congressman smith would be interested in that and so would congressman weber. i think we would all be interested in that. when i was in nigeria, i think

actually was i think from mr. postel's administration or department who advocated that we not involve or military intelligence in helping nigeria because of some of the the interpretation of the current governments position. to me that was a little bit alarming because i now found out today that the chinese have given nigeria some equipment they've been requesting from the united states. and my fear is because of our policy that we may be driving as you know the continent, really being recalled lives not by the british, not by the americans but by the chinese. in the republic of congo, the drc, there's a whole mountain of copper as you know who was sold for pennies on the dollar and the chinese have the workers there and there's no kind of interplay with, or developer with the host country.

it's very much, in fact i would argue worse than the club the government ever did. my concern is that we are putting restrictions on ourselves to the degree that now we become less important to those host countries. so as you go forward i would hope that you would see that the chinese are a serious player and that they are coming terms of competing with the united states, could be a very problematic down the line. you are shaking your head. i hope you can tell me. >> thank you, congressman. i have to be take note of your comments, and i will investigate further in discussion with head of ou our office. i met them at with all the circumstances of this, but certainly fully recognize the point you're making about very

active presence of china in africa. >> i think sometimes we should do more pragmatic analysis and not involve so much, i mean, we need to balance it against in order to compete with our chinese competitors. it is from almost every country whether it is chad or egypt or sub-saharan africa, i keep seeing these chinese in a heavy, heavy way. and privately, i think it was the republic of congo some of the administrators said they would prefer americans but the hurdles -- well, for reasons in past history they have some of those countries have embezzled and taken a lot of money from the own people. so in some ways it's justified. but my more concern is interpreting internal social policies, i think are beyond the

scope of what i think the united states should be doing. i just want to express that. also i think in terms of the oil development, particularly in sub-saharan africa, the art are companies in my district, baker hughes and halliburton, i guess halliburton is now in abu dhabi or dubai, they kind of moved, they would like to be in there but there is as uniform corruption act, and there can be some misinterpretation of that law being applied to our own companies. there's a great deal of frustration on our side in houston where we would like to see more cooperation. and i think in deference to our own corporations, if you could give them guidance and what they can do to facilitate more involved in those countries would be a great boon -- taxes

is already booming. we have no problem with fracking in our state can still sing i think would be a beneficial to the united states, and maintaining that would keep our influence. i'm just alarmed at the rise, and you guys know i'm right about the rise in china into. they have almost no restrictions whatsoever and have no compunction about paying leaders large sums of money in order to facilitate their advantages. and with that i yield back to my chairman now. >> thank you very much. before we go to the second thing which is like to ask one final question. has to do with, obviously the terrorist threats to many countries and people in africa from boko haram to all shabaab are very significant. i'm wondering how power africa integrates protect the infrastructure and, of course, the people, personnel against terrorist attack, including cyber attacks which we know

could be devastating to an electrical power generating grant or any other that is out there. if you could perhaps speak to that issue. protecting it and hardening it to our terrorists. >> 's. >> thank you for the question, chairman smith. i will defer to my colleagues, specifically in relation to power africa and those engagements there. i can tell you that the recognition that we encounter from energy companies and energy agencies, ministries in our international engagements, to an ever increasing degree recognize the importance of protecting infrastructure. one of the things the department of energy does is to enter into

cooperative engagements with key international partners. we do this at their expense commit expense of the host country to help them identify formal abilities, plan their systems so that they are resilient to any threat, it's an all hazards approach whether one is talking about severe weather or cyber attack or physical attack. and we have found that this is an area where the united states is in a position to at a tremendous amount of value from our experience. i would have to defer to my colleagues as to whether that is being done in the power africa base complacently don't know the amateur myself. >> thank you for the question, mr. chairman. i will doublecheck but i believe depending on the topic that are

of interest to the energy regulators, the power operators or the utilities, i believe summer youth exchanges that i will be sending the details of have included those kinds of topics. the other important thing is just the involvement of the private sector. a lot of the private sector investors have a lot of experience digging through these risks. when they're investing offshore there looking at all risks and that's another avenue on the topic which is they stand to lose a lot of money if they don't pay attention to these topics. we want to be very involved working with local folks to look at that. >> to be certain it is integrated into plan development and the like spent i don't know that the demand driven or integrator to also. i will come back. >> i appreciate that. thank you.

>> we're in the early stages of the electric grid system in africa. working with the international financial institutions like the world bank in and development think there is a lot of consideration about the security and reliability issues that are going into the development of the loan programs and specifications for what kind of systems they can put in place. >> would the pentagon or state department be incorporated? i say that because after we got

hit in nairobi i get a hearings for the review board. i will never forget when assistant secretary carpenter said that they will look for any role ability that nothing is off limits. i'm paraphrasing of course but in 19 and 99 major the hearings but after that i wrote the embassy securities act which became law and it added, this ask schleck it was a lesson i learned, let the guard down and, of course, those who wish us well, the nefarious networks will look for any vulnerability as usual word which i think is the right word.

if he could get back to us if you would, how that whole process of protecting. i'm glad you elaborate as well as not just against terrorism, against earthquakes and natural disasters. just so the subcommittee, if there's anyway we can be helpful in promoting even more of that because i think going forward it will be increasingly at risk. i mean the terrorists are not foolish. they will look for anything which will be maximum damage but if you could get back but i thank you for your answers as well. ms. bass, anything? anything you would like to say before we conclude? >> i think i could speak on behalf of my colleagues both of the table and the inner agencies that would just reiterate our thanks to all of you for your leadership and your interest. we are not going to collectively solve this challenge with a trip and we very much appreciated. >> it is a partnership. thank you for taking the lead and doing so effectively.

the subcommittee on the members on both sides of the are appreciative of what you've accomplished and will accomplish going forward. that you. i'd like to now welcome our second they'll begin first with mr. walker williams as president and ceo of leadership africa u.s.a., and alternative marketing access. he is a management consultant more than two decades of experience working with governments, corporations, ngos and multilateral institutions. his areas of expertise and strategic advice include energy, infrastructure, finance, management and communication. he has worked with the u.s. department of energy, and in each of your coverage is not as well mr. williams was also instrumental in bringing house and senate together in the african diplomatic corps for an historic and ongoing set of meetings that we have had to meet with the african

ambassadors and others from all of the african countries and want to thank you for your leadership in making that happen. then we'll hear from ms. dianne sutherland who is, who has been work with -- 13 years as a resident of each of the new settlement entered the oil and gas publishing business in 2001 and by late 2002 launched what is known as petroleum africa magazine. in january 2008 she also launched alternative energy africa magazine. additionally, ms. sutherland offers services as consultant resources government, consultant of kind of. -- kind of -- ghana. we will be hooking up with her by way of video. mr. williams, begin with your testimony. >> thank you, chairman smith, ranking member bass, congressman

stockman. i appreciate greatly this opportunity to come before you this afternoon to talk about energy. it's something that is of critical importance, not going to africa, it's important to the u.s. economy. and i've got some prepared remarks i'm going to refer to have also submitted testimony. i want to take a different take than the first panel. because i'm coming from the civil society side of the ledger, and i wanted to take a few moments and talk about leadership africa. we do programs throughout africa. before that it was instrument and working in the caribbean on the caribbean basin initiative and we worked there. i want to see q. got any -- we

have adopted and started to work and move into the energy sector in order to ensure the programs that we put together can be leveraged in can be sustainable. chairman smith referred to some meetings that we did several years ago but the little background on that was the african ambassadors have an african ambassadors group and they meet regularly once a month. but they were not involved in the deliberations around angola. we took it upon herself to start meeting with him and formally, and we wanted to hear from the

african ambassadors. we wanted to hear from the beneficiaries of these programs we talked about earlier this morning what they're take was, their solutions were to some of the challenges affecting them and that they're confronting. and with that in mind we spent some time working on agoa. it is up for reauthorization. between now and september 15, and it's a very important initiative. what i'm going to say here this afternoon that we as the ngo community, we as the civil society, we think agoa to energy. if you don't have energy are not going to make the kind of changes and have the kind of productivity you want through agoa because you can't industrialize. you don't have the energy and the power to meet the metrics and consult a solution. so i'm saying to you really like

ththe african ambassadors like d like the hesitate heads did at the latest summit, they link ago and a link energy. they are two key priorities for them and i want to suggest that when i mentioned in my prepared remarks references to agoa it's because they see agoa link to energy. we don't go quite that way but that's how the african ambassadors and that's how the african heads look at that, that those two issues. there was reference early this morning to the is africa energy ministerial. leadership africa had the privilege of coordinating that meeting in ethiopia on behalf of u.s. department of energy. so i was happier that u.s. department of energy and those who attended it was successful to yes, we did have 500 participants. we had about 170 corporations,

both u.s. and african companies participating. it was successful enough that when i came back and what i've heard in ethiopia, i've been pushing, this is the point of want to make, that we need follow-up. we need consistent intentional follow-up. we didn't get into to coordinate with u.s. department of energy and have 13 euros energies participating without there being follow-up. with the focus of that was power africa. they announced beyond the grid at that session in ethiopia, and it is going forward is going to suggest and pick up on what ranking member bass said earlier, that we also need to bring additional players to the table. in my prepared remarks i talk about small minority and women-owned businesses. and i talk about that and linking them with their counterparts in africa.

why do i say that? if you look at what's going on in the continent, there is a policy which the african governments call localization. they are saying to our u.s. companies that if you really want to work in our country and if you're looking for business opportunities in our country, you need to find a way to train our local citizens. commute find a way to participate. so it's in our self interest, and i think there is a nice marriage between our small business community and the african business community to share, to work together around and under power africa and, of course, the mcc's program because there is what we would refer to the private sector money sock. you know you'll get paid. we just need to make sure that these programs encourage those companies, our u.s. companies and others reaching out to the smallest businesses to me to

make sure opportunities for them to participate. i also in my prepared remarks talk of something that i think needs to be better, more focused on and that is what i call regionalization. i believe and i put forth the way to really deal with energy, electricity and power is on a regional strategy, working with the regional groupings that are already in place in africa. because in some sense you might find it easier to take electricity from ghana and ship it into a neighboring country than it is to use it internally. so i urged, up in a conversation with d.o.e. and i think that's a strategy that if they can find a way to do that, it starts to leak some of the things which we call trade civilization.

see, electricity is so powerful that if you came to me and said that we're going to have a regional approach on electricity, it starts to get to trade civilization among the leaders because of something that they all share a need for. get them talking and you start to break down some of the barriers around working across borders in terms of these priorities. i didn't as you note repeat the statistic. we note over six among people in africa are without electricity. we know that africa needs -- 6 million people. the other thing africa does need, it needs training and capacity development, and that is something that the u.s. government and our agencies are very capable of providing and doing. we just need to make sure that they continue to work together like they're doing with the

power africa working group, which is an actual program. i'm pushing hard for the eaa program, electrify africa program, because it sort of stabilize and puts in place a long-term solution. and also saying that we need to encourage and listen to our african partners. we need to hear from them and we need to look at more partnering relationships to maintain our competitive advantage. when the agency's talk, and i'm a little bit involve in the industry, the agencies don't control any energy. they don't control any oil, and so you really do need to find a way to create public-private partnerships and be supportive of those entities in the u.s. that do have access to these resources and hear from them like i'm listening to the african ambassadors and the

african heads on what they think will help them do a better job and create implement opportunities, not only in the u.s. but in africa. and i think with apple defer to my other counterpart if she is here. >> mr. williams, thank you very much for your testimony. without objection your full statement will be be a part of the record. i want to welcome from houston, texas, dianne sutherland. you are recognized. please proceed. >> i'd like to express my appreciation for the invitation to testify at this hearing today on africa's energy future. i have witnessed -- fossil fuels and alternative energy sector. ..

and it is not exclusive to north america to the share of unconventional resources the shale oriole, shale gas and methane are all receiving attention for both government and private sector and a number of projects are afforded. as for alternative energy, there are literally hundreds of small skill projects established in the works not to mention the larger scale projects on the drawing board. these translate into billions of dollars of investment. the sector is making progress

with new renewable specific legislation emerging in many countries -- in egypt, ethiopia, china, morocco and south africa. the continents i drop our resource some estimates having accounting for over 12% of the growth potential. the chinese are already heavily invested in the power with 500 million. ethiopia is looking to develop six gigawatts of power and the democratic republic of congo would be a the influence implemented. kenya is constructing new power plants by december, 2015 and in fact the strategy would make it the number one geothermal producer by the year 2033 if

executed. and having a near-term and packed for any small-scale off grid projects they are buried and include solar, waste energy, sorry, rooftop solar and wind and biofuels application. perhaps the greatest achievement over the decades have been seen as emerging to meet the growing demand. this has led to the technology transfer to provide services to the communities. in addition other small projects have allowed them to become small-business owners and technology to the community. in closing the hydrocarbon renewable energy could set forth by the african government as well as by their global part

verse are paying huge dividends. there is a long road ahead to bring them up to the standard of living. in the american know-how and investments to play a major role. thank you. [applause] thank you very much for your testimony and insights and expertise. i would like to yield. >> thank you. i appreciate you going on the sequence and i want to ask a couple questions that first address my colleagues representative stockman. you know the concerns you were raising about china and one of the first things we can do hopefully before the lame-duck is over is care of two things in the senate and also to the all so to the extent that we can increase our purchase a patient because i know i've heard from many african countries how much they want to do business with us

but sometimes we put our own roadblocks of. i just wanted to ask i was asking the first panel about power africa and its reach into urban areas in the residential areas and also the rural areas and representing the society i wanted to know your take on the question in the first panel. >> i belief it is anecdotal to some extent but having come out of the u.s. africa at ministerial. and we talked about it with grids and getting electricity into the rural areas and i

attended a session in africa rising and there were many things in other words they were creating opportunities for people to supply electricity and make a little bit of money to keep it going and keep their incentives up. so it's happening and it could be expedited but it is happening and it is part of when you get beyond the grid, part of the power of africa agenda. i thought the question was addressed to my colleague. >> it was that it was for you, too. i was wondering your opinions on how power africa and efforts are reaching beyond commercial areas and going into urban residential and world areas.

i'm not that familiar iced with that aspect however we do appreciate the american investment but i know that there are many small skill projects emanating in the united states supplying a clean cooking stove and they are really quite receptive. >> i'm glad you're from houston. i represent houston and as you know it was a critical part of

george mitchell's portfolio and i think that he changed and revolutionized the world when he developed -- i think we lost her. that's okay. i would like to ask mr. williams on our side in the free market can you be blunt enough to tell me how is it that we are competing and in what ways we can undo something to make it more beneficial for both sides and how we have well intended meanings but ultimately it ends up impacting your industry or other industries. >> in response to be

undiplomatic i don't think anyone ever passes the law so we will start with that premise. the thing that i think we feel is we don't look at the beneficiaries. the u.s. has great reach if i was to ask a minister to pick up a conversation where would they like and who would they like to work with unanimously it would be with the united states that we do put in place not the law that the policy of how the law is going to be implemented that creates obstacles and the obstacles in the global economy remember or you'll is a global economy supply and demand a so

if we put obstacles up it goes of it goes to where there are less obstacles or they can get what they consider to be a fair shot at the preference for instance if an energy minister comes here and they want to work on something and they would prefer to work with the u.s. department of energy often times they have to go to the state department and that means they have to have the minister of foreign affairs and they would prefer to keep it in the energy house so some of the things we do create obstacles going forward and then there are issues in some of the agencies where we can't be as supportive because of regulations that are in place and the industries and the agencies themselves don't necessarily want to show favoritism to the company a or

be. our industries don't get the benefit of what we can do. >> and no offense to no offense to the state department and the previous panel, but if you look at that time and length to discuss the pipeline here in the united states it's unfortunate that the state department is seeing in the commerce but i see repeatedly as you know i meant with -- this is your view i met with the foreign minister and energy minister that was back to 15 or 18 years ago and it hasn't been resolved. i'm not going to be here in january. i'm going to work for congressman smith but my hope is that we can do some kind of legislation to where we step back and allow companies to work together and it's absolutely true by the way americans also

do something the chinese don't. the americans will employ local leader and trained them in the technologies and the skills. but they are more parochial and bringing their own labor as you know and it's almost in itself locked up and they don't even get to intermingle. so, i would request if you have time or you can administratively get us back some of the policies you think and you don't have to be diplomatic just you and me we will keep it secret i think some frankness would be in order.

>> you don't just say i want to turn on a switch. it takes years to develop some of these infrastructure projects. but the country needs the electricity now and we have a lot of technology we can drop a whale we are building out the more permanent sustainable path is supplied so there are a lot of things and i'm happy to respond to you with those kind of shortcut thoughts on how we can be more effective. >> i am on your side. i go nuts when i visit because i want to help them. i have a great con -- and for them and they want what the rest of the world once and yet i see time and time our government is interceding in a way that is disrupted and harmful for the people that we claim to want to help and i just am thrilled that

you dedicated your life to this and i appreciate the sacrifices that you have made and i apologize for the bureaucracy or inconsistency from our side. >> i approach that. i've received some that we can do better. some of the conversations i hear on their side is excuse my expression i used a profanity i'm upset that time and time we are shooting ourselves in the foot. >> just a few final questions. thank you very much for your testimony and your leadership. can you tell us you have any insight into how the participants especially the non- governmental actors are selected for the ministerial having bds

-- diaspora and who is it self-selection people to make it onto a list and the issue i will ask when she gets back on she might want to speak to it as well for most of my career in congress for 44 years now i've been an ardent proponent of waste energy initiatives and obviously it takes care of municipal garbage with modern technology being what it is as pristine as it can possibly be that with the right controls and environment of safeguards it is cleaner and the countries matriculate to an industrialized

nation people want to cut corners and it's going to be much waste. i wonder how well you think that power africa is incorporating the waste energy initiatives as a way of covering up africa as part of a mix. i did ask the earlier panel and we will get back with insights but i'm very worried about cyber security issues and about terrorism. it doesn't take much in proper safeguards if there are followed whereby it can be demolished very quickly but she's spoken about china and we all know that china demands a great payment of

repayment. they get the oil that has access to that and we know that they are often very much weapons are in the next for the raw materials especially oil and i'm wondering as you field we have competed well enough for the people's republic of china to say the africans at you as well want to deal with the private sector as well but if we are not in the game who do they turn to. are they still outcompeting us on the subcontinent? >> the first question on the image or industry ministerial id was responsible for the outreach in the marketing of the events that took place in ethiopia. the u.s. department of energy

handled the government participation and of those agencies that did come to participate. we've reached out to everybody, regardless. so we made it inclusive and then we made it easy for even the african businessmen to attend come and we have different price referential so that they had to pay something that so that we make sure that there was a meeting participating and benefiting. so it was on us if there were complaints about the leadership as you were saying. the second question was waste to energy. we are an ngo in number of waste

energy projects that we work in real communities where there is a collection of waste and the cogeneration if they are effective particularly with plastic you will find it in egypt there is a huge project going on and we were working with a and other ngo and they had a competition on a basis and have other people that when those were dealing with energy that they were dealing with removing waste and it was at the university level so it is attractive if they can clean up their communities and have some money coming from that and it generates electricity so we wind them for everybody. in response to my question about the gaps i listed by subnational

part are we reaching out to state and local governments and he said it's becoming more and more important and we wonder if you might want to speak to and work with the central government does but look to those other key players. you might want to expand upon that and and finally how do we measure success in order metrics that can be employee of that have seen such and such number of principalities of people and acted in the electricity. does anybody have a backdrop in mind to determine whether we are succeeding in this effort?

>> on the china question of the if the glass is half-full and half-empty, china has a different system than we have. they go at it differently or yet when you are talking to a company that says that we are a chinese company you don't know if it is a chinese company or if they are partially owned by the government or representing the government so when you put our companies into that mix, it's hard to compete and then there was reference earlier to the act and the competition and the clarity when you are working within the balance and everybody wants to work within the bounds so that you are clear the activities that you are understanding are not going to put you a foul of the law would be very helpful. we could overcome what is the fast amount of finances that they have available because we really make better partners. we are there for the long run and i think that the african

governments understand that and we need to pick up on the second question we need to move it out of the leadership in the heads of the ministries and government officials and residents available we are talking to the business people who like business people here can go talk to the people but they need to support the health and the assistance that we can provide to them. >> you mentioned the issue in china so a more general question would be how well are we competing in your opinion with the chinese initiatives come and you also mentioned something before you came back on how widespread are those projects which do to great things at one time produce energy but also

take care of the municipal waste problem and landfill as we all know taking the time bombs because what they do in the water systems so if you could respond to those i would appreciate it. >> we are competing pretty well. however others have mentioned the transparency issue is very big in africa that they're 17 or 18 countries who've signed up so for those that have not yet signed up for have not met the requirements to be approved chinese money is attractive and becomes very little of string attached to it and it's very attractive to some african

governments. on the other hand, chinese technology while it has improved over the last decade it's still lagging behind and many much rather prefer to work with american service firms and oil and gas exploration companies. they are small-scale and medium scale. i know of one project at its waste to energy that from the prison facility. there was also the waste to energy as municipal waste energy so it has a very high potential in the continent and you have

received many more projects cropping up as the investment comes along and the technology transfer is made. >> thank you for coming back online. >> technology fails us sometimes the major projects such as ethiopia grand renaissance has regional implications that make it difficult. how how to countries such do countries such as ethiopia and egypt to deal with conflicts of such power projects? >> basically it is a governmental power play. i don't think that the project would have made it as far as it has if it were not for the

spring in egypt. generally i think you would have seen the project not as advanced as it has a direct probably be a debate for several years to come and having said that, you need egypt in the not-too-distant future. >> one more question to both of you can you make any kind of gas or projection as to how many people on the subcontinent will have access to electricity? >> in the next decade? >> yes. i don't see a huge increase. i would say maybe a 15% increase in the next decade such as the

geothermal and the hydropower. >> they have to share her assessment that there isn't going to be a substantial number of people who will have access to electricity in africa if we stay on this current level. it's estimated you still may have 500 million people on the content. >> we need to accelerate our efforts and i think that we will end on that point. i want to thank you for the opportunity and the privilege to be here and testify. i am hopeful that some of the things i said and i will be back and hope to applaud your

leadership both you and congressman. the hearing is adjourned. thank you very much. >> [inaudible conversations] over in the u.s. house workers approved a bill authorizing construction of the keystone xl pipeline. the vote was 252-161 in favor.

attention now turns to the senate which will consider the bill on tuesday that was introduced by the energy committee chair mary landrieu of louisiana. the white house threatened to veto until the review by the state department is completed. the senate next week will also take up legislation that would overhaul the government surveillance programs. both chambers return monday at 2:00 eastern for legislative work. watch the house live on c-span. the senate is live on c-span2. >> tomorrow morning on washington journal environmental law professor thomas learned so it explains the new carbon emissions reduction deal that was announced earlier. they discussed the debate over civil asset forfeiture or laws and how they have led to the police of these with your phone calls committees to comment and

washington journal is live on saturday morning starting at 7 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> members of the airmen share stories from their service. the main thing about my training at what you think is a gentle man that went over before me came back and taught me my instructor was captain leonard sax in. he came back and taught me how to fly 8086 and how to do combat fighting cross-country. they came back and they taught me well. i guess my other claim to fame

is you guys or girls that are interested after 20 hours of flying they are going to give you a test edits to prove that you have learned what your instructor has taught you. mine was with chief anderson who happened to have taken up mrs. roosevelt. i didn't know any of this until i came out of the service. but that was a big deal to me when i found out that that was the man that took me up and gave me my first.

over the summer in response to the reports of delays of mismanagement at the va facilities the congress passed a bill aimed at improving access and quality of care for veterans at the va hospitals. thursday the house veterans affairs committee held a hearing to assess the impact of the

changes and how they plan to spend the additional funding for the deputy secretary gibson. this hearing is to add a half hours everybody can take their seats please. the committee will come to order. welcome back, everybody. it's great to have you back. appreciate everybody joining us for this full committee hearing and oversight hearing today. i want to ask unanimous consent that several of our colleagues be allowed to join us. the representative from pennsylvania and from california they've asked to join us and i would ask with unanimous consent without objection so ordered. as everyone sitting around but i guess today is aware on the seventh of august the president signed into law 14136.

this was thoughtfully crafted after months of aggressive oversight by this committee to address the unprecedented access and accountability scandal that had engulfed the department of veterans affairs following allegations that were first uncovered in this room that some va medical facilities for keeping lists to manipulate quicktime data and to ensure their own bonuses. we are here today to evaluate the progress that the da has made to implement in accordance with statutory requirement deadlines and congressional intent. this includes the effective and timely implementation of the veteran choice program that was designed to provide rebates to

veterans who reside at 40 miles are further from a va facility or who cannot get a timely appointment and it also includes the required independent assessment of the health care system which in my opinion should inform decisions about staffing and infrastructure that are to be made under the law. finally, and most importantly, it includes accountability on which i will focus my remaining remarks. section 707 of the law authorizes the secretary to fire or denote senior employees for misconduct or poor performance. as you go without saying that veterans deserve the very best leadership the government has to offer. they've proven that far too many leaders have lied, manipulated the data or simply failed to do

the job for which they were hired. it's also clear that to instill accountability for these leaders has been both nearly nonexistent with self-inflicted roadblocks to the reform that each of us expects. when i originally drafted this i envisioned that it would they would be able to provide secretary mcdonald with the tools that he needed and wanted to finally hold the failing leaders accountable. when he signed it into law he agreed by saying and i quote if you engage in an unethical practice and if you cover up a serious problem you should be fired period. it shouldn't be that difficult. based on these comments as well as several statements by secretary mcdonald himself. i'm both perplexed and disappointed at the pace that they have in fact than held

accountable. even worse is that secretary mcdonald said on november 6 and i quote the new cover that i was granted is the appeal time for the senior executive service employee of the va has been reduced in half. that is the only change in the law so they didn't grant any kind of new power that was suddenly given the ability to walk into a room and simply fire people. it is clear that those remain confused. about what the law actually does which is much more than simply reducing the appeal time. the secretary can't simply walk into a room and fire an employee without evidence or renting the action. but it does give the authority

to remove the employee for poor performance or misconduct. the secretary also cited a plethora of numbers he says illustrates the department's commitment to holding individuals accountable. there's one list of a thousand names being removed and another list of 5,600 of employees being removed and another list of the va is proposing action on. so let me take a moment is that the record straight. based on everything that we saw yesterday the va only has one year on the disciplinary actions taken against any of its over 330,000 employees making meaningful comparisons against

previous years. it is proposed disciplinary actions only and the list of over 1,000 is a list of proposed removals for any type of poor performance. not necessarily connected to the debacle that we have discussed at length in this committee. and the list of 42 provided at my request on a weekly basis includes employee is proposed for discipline due to the crisis which is engulfed in the va over the last year. what's more since august 7 only one employee has been removed under the new law and this person's removal was not directly related to the patient wait times or the data manipulation. so i don't understand in the

wake of the biggest scandal in the department of veterans affairs how only 42 employees only four of which appear to be senior executives individuals have been proposed for discipline with none yet removed. further they've taken the liberty of creating an additional bureaucratic office, the office of accountability review. in the additional bureaucratic delay, the five day advance notice of removal which operates again you internal appeals process. these questionable actions are nowhere to be found in the wall that we wrote into the president signed. the notice of the removal only serves to incentivize poor performing senior leaders to drag out the disciplinary process while continuing to collect a hefty paycheck for

ultimately retiring full benefits. it perpetuates the reception that they care more about protecting data employees and the veterans of this country. we should be provided credit towards the taxpayer-funded pension for the time to cope during which it causes harm to a veteran. that's why i'm going to introduce a bill that would give the secretary the authority to reduce an employee pension to reflect the years of service during which they participated in actions that made them subject to their removal. this is a fair and admirable way to emphasize to the pork performing senior senior employee of that retirement credit is earned by failing veterans and their actions have long-lasting meaningful consequences and i'm not going to get into the individual

personnel actions at this time since they're a serious legal issues at hand that must be dealt with respectively and appropriately. however i want to make it clear today that i continue to have serious concerns about accountability at the department of veterans affairs again in response to what is without a doubt the largest scandal that has ever impacted the da. i am not seeing the corresponding efforts to hold those accountable for their actions. the deputy secretary as we discussed yesterday i have been increasing worry secretary mcdonald and you are simply getting some bad advice from some of those around you in the bureaucracy and i just hope that is not the case. the same issue i think doom's the secretary's tenure and i hope you take my suggestion seriously when i tell you that the entrenched biography must be

shaken up in order for any true reform reform that is desperately needed to better serve the veterans to succeed. i truly appreciate your service and for you being here this morning. and with that i recognize and welcome back the ranking member for his opening statement. >> thank you very much mr. chairman for having this very important oversight hearing. we are here today to get an update from the department of veterans affairs on the implementation of the veterans access choice and accountability act of 2014. this was passed in august and addressed a number of issues the department had with providing quality healthcare to veterans. long wait times are the problems that got us where we are today. we shouldn't make them wait for solutions to be implemented. while today is a first public update of the va implementation of this