businesses. other partners seize the opportunity to announce major new commitments to power africa. to day, 600 million africans don't have access to electricity and to gather with our partners from congress in africa the donor nations and private businesses power africa is greatly increasing energy. thank you mr. chairman and members of the subcommittee for your support and leadership of this initiative ballot for a two your questions. >> i now yield. >> chairman smith ranking member bass and subcommittee members i appreciate the opportunity to discuss africa energy future and how

we use form policy tools to support stability and economic development in africa by increasing access to electricity to lay the groundwork for a stable and prosperous energy sector. i'm here representing the bureau for energy resources to focus on energy equities around the world to see to elevate their broader foreign policy. first-ever like to a knowledge of house for paying attention for poverty in africa through the power after-tax. clearly africa it goes through historic transformation of the bureau for energy resources is working hard to help governments responsive lee developed their energy resources to accelerate the reform of the electricity system that will then encourage private investment and support economic growth to support access. with the interagency team

and we have one of the strongest in my 40 years of government, within the framework it is focused on three main areas, and promoting good governance to oil and gas resources but also for into the energy sector as well in increasing access and increasing renewable technology. let me turn to governance. it is the key security as well as economic concerns poorly managed resources to feed corruption but the goal to avoid these issues is the initiative to offer the governments on the ground assistance and training in the united states and some of the most difficult issues facing this sector. for instance management of revenues incorporation of

best practices into law and regulation and protecting people from sector in packs. linda the program we are currently engaged with liberia and somalia tanzanian. the larger of scorer -- offshore urge discoveries as global and regional significance to ensure the sound development. transparency as a key component of good governance are actively involved with the transparency of accountable changes through their representatives of government and civil society to work together to disclose information about a country natural resource revenues.

currently there 18 countries in the kennedy countries. with the extent of energy poverty in africa that there are multilevel efforts such as sustainable energy was we hope to attract investment needed transmission and distribution. then two-stage has focused on the policy framework with the reforms necessary to reduce the risk for investment. with the effort didn't indices in washington but

the emphasis of the structural policy and governance changes that encourages more investment. senior career foreign officers in the region to work with the embassies to enhance and focus the diplomatic efforts to minimize cost. we also plan regional training suggestion -- sessions to update the officers in the region and. we are happy beyond a great initiative as part of power africa and working globally to look at promising business and technology models to provide energy access to rural populations that between power africa and the sustainable initiative with a goal of universal access for the 1.2 billion people around the world of sub-saharan africa the don't have access to

electricity by 2013 an ambitious goal but it is consistent with electrify africa and the objectives and where the european union and others make large commitments to increase electricity in africa. the power sector program provides expert advice with the association of energy regulators to oversee the market and it is critical to create a larger market to attract investment we have the and conventional program working with countries to develop and looked at the potential for the unconventional resources to do so in a sustainable and safe manner. working with partners around the world to have a strong emphasis of africa and the

initiatives to link with many of there's a and improved energy throughout africa. in conclusion sub-saharan africa is at a crossroads. expansive resources in emerging oil and gas sector is either an integral part to bring light to the continent to lifted out of poverty your it catalyst for instability and corruption. we feel congress as a historic opportunity to reach across the spectrum to address these challenges part of a foreign to your questions. >> alike to begin with a few questions. what african countries have prioritized electrification? water the obstacles and challenges that we are facing to assist?

are they meeting that challenge nor are there gaps to be allocated sooner rather than later? the emphasis on national government or state governments? if you find one that cannot be as transparent to bypass it is the states and local governments that carry a heavy burden as it is replicated in africa. but with the electrification lee visited virtually every plant in my state over the years, obviously there are many environmental safeguards to ensure what comes out the chimney does not lead to disasters because of pollution.

are those kinds the best practice to be incorporated? it seems there's so much capability and knowledge it would be a shame if that was lost. where are the african power leaders especially to the people that run the generators? where do they get the education? of the partnering here or something they pick up been college or junior college? who trains those some their run safely and effectively? and it is intended to facilitate investment for energy solutions. could that interest more entreprenuers to take an interest to the underserved communities in africa?

if you could speak to those questions i would appreciate it. >> thank you for your questions and thank you for your leadership to introduce the legislation. each country is in a different place but to see where they focus on electrification and you can see this for example, is a the compact of tanzania and guyana most -- most realize a lack of electricity hold back they're gross. there are a lot of countries that are realizing how important it is to their gross or their health care system more education system and are looking to do more in this area. there are gaps between power

africa to identify what the gaps are to work with the government and private sector investors to solve them. we have seen private sector investors try to do deals then hit a roadblock. the advisers say how do we solve that? >> is that something you could summarize and provide? then we could try to be helpful if those governments. >> with local and national governments, a the energy policy there are a number of locals that come to play and we work with all of them to figure out the challenges and how we deal with that.

with the environmental and social safeguards is very important. we don't need to reinvent the wheel but make sure we used state of the art so if there is a component each has its own policy to make sure that the project fits the standards to introduce corps practices but in terms of education and training with the whole institution offer some countries training or education from the united states or europe to live in the area where there are shortfalls there is a longstanding partnership of usaid funds

with utilities or regulators working in combination with the individual countries for this very reason to have technical interactions from one person to another to increase that skill level because there are gaps. we need to keep working on that. >> how large of an operation is that? >> it is modest, very economical system. each year we get a request from different countries. not restricted to africa but we've match them with different utilities. probably new jersey or california or whatever but they match them up with utilities that have that expertise that they need.

then they have these exchanges and interactions. >> for the record could you give us that? and lastly, it absolutely beyond the grade having local organizations and of entrepreneurs with these opportunities is part of the objective. that is where the credit guarantees can help them deal with the risk and to introduce them to business opportunities which they know very well because they know better than a large company. >> a couple of points if i may lead to a knowledge that

difficulty of the broad answers with the diversity of the circumstances of different african countries with zero verses service in settings but in regards to the question of the cutting edge development of the power system, one of the areas we felt is important as agencies have worked on from different vantage points is the business said utilization of oil development projects. the historical experience of the of flaring of natural

gas is understandable when it manages to lacked is the critical lost opportunity. with the policy dialogues in one of the things jota the edification of mutual interest give u.s. companies and opportunities for a certain african countries with the trade and development agencies to organize the reverse trade commission for leaders from different than to countries for those there is potential

opportunity there. beyond the grade the potential. for african entrepreneurs that one aspect is to focus on the importance of proper performance of products in the marketplace. it is easy to spoil the markets with a substandard product for the offering or solar lantern for the department of energy works for with our colleagues to look at the question of how to make scheerer off a bridge lighting systems in hybrid systems with the sow

or natural gas -- hist -- tiso or natural gas you can see that opportunity going forward. but on the issue of training , i say from our perspective it is a huge interest of lot of head room opportunity. i assure members had the experience to travel throughout the gulf region when one is thinking saudi arabia were many other countries with historically long lasting education and

company relationships, that translates not only into high-quality energy development but also a huge opportunity for u.s. companies because in many cases the counterparts are familiar with u.s. standards and approaches and vendors. a huge opportunity. as we look to try to develop ideas. >> i have five points i will chime in for the gaps in challenges throughout the subcontinent is related to the financial position of the utility's. since one of the challenges is how to strengthen that pricing environment to move to commercial utilities because investors know they

have the power that they generate. clearly we have the and a lot of work to be very active in that area that is important that the same time to have a solvent financially viable energy system to have a long-term investment that is necessary to develop the sector. second, club point about the integration about the upstream issue of the power sector is an important challenge you have different ministries and you have to work to be a catalyst to do better planning to do insure the oil and gas that is developed will be available to meet the needs of the

country. donna wants to develop a lot of capacity and that has been slow in coming but we to be set national in africa and other regions the urbanization that creates the center's of buildings and industry and the mayors in this of natural leaders are becoming more and more important. we talked about urbanization but that is still at the embryonic stage with less than 50% and even by 2013 you may have 54 percent urban so there is rapidly growing areas and working with the city's is important especially with energy

efficiency. the fourth area is the entrepreneurial development with local institutions. here in many cases it is important to work with a local business community which we are to focus to develop more capacity with the local banking system so they can lend for some of these projects because you know, much of that capital seized a huge risk and they're very risk averse so the local banking sector is important and we have seen that system can play a key role. finally a lot of factors play in this field we work

closely with the world bank and other donors to have a coordinated approach to address the gaps institutionally and try to leverage our money effectively with that process. >> thank you for your testimony. i am the big supporter of power africa but i want to raise a few issues that are raised by others with the implementation. so i believe jonathan elkind you were mentioning african entrepreneurs but to that extent of the diaspora in the united states what type about reach are you doing?

but specifically with small businesses though small business people that want to be connected but just cannot quite make the connection. you mention the reverse trade commission and are there any others planned? i will make a pitch for southern california. so that is another issue. and then the development of the infrastructure on the continent. >> dinky for your questions. i am sure my colleagues will add. we agree we need to not only start but continue without reach to reach all different sectors of interested

people. large u.s. businesses and so forth so we are making progress but we have more to do. we have cases already. i interesting and there is that ethiopia in american business that will be manufacturing parts like choosing a company and i hope there will be additional successes in the days ahead. and as you allude to many know very well the business opportunities they have accumulated capital so it participates in different aspects. intern is of being connected going to the usaid web site

somebody could send an e-mail and then we use that one stop shop to all one dozen government entities depend on the circumstances to make a connection because we have the view people should not have to hunt ball over the u.s. government for food to talk to. so we will save them that. >> i would like to help you with as well so may be reaching out to members of congress with that african diaspora and african american diaspora we're very interested to help with power africa. >> we will take you a bomb that. >> another issue that came up when the bill was heard in committee as we are with

power africa and supporting the development of the infrastructure of the continent to what extent is it getting into the communities? there is some concern the infrastructure is in cities but considering people in the rural areas or in neighborhoods don't have electricity. just with women's giving child birth over the cellphone to deliver a baby. >> let me start. clearly the issues related to the rural electrification is changing a lot and is a revolution that is occurring

in which the drop of prices for a solar system, the advance of telecommunication of cell phones, i just came back from bangladesh some commercial approaches that are taken and i think will be extremely important because there is a rural population with relatively small loads to extend the grid by the utilities that don't have the money to do it or don't have that same type of commitment because they are struggling to meet the urban requirements. >> with her then i was referring to the neighborhoods. >> but the issues related to the decentralized approaches are relevant to the urban

areas as well. but also the question about the entrepreneurial opportunities to work with u.s. companies better at the leading edge of technologies that has developed then and no grave approach in bangladesh and that is the type of innovation icy going on that we can begin to try to focus and take a closer look at africa and the market opportunities. >> it is part of the initiative? >> that is why we are excited beyond the grave because we're in the early stages but companies have expressed involvement and if we have the right strategies we can accelerate the commercialization of these

options for africa. >> maybe give me the name of that company. with the kumble -- a couple areas and some concern at what expense is power africa looking at renewals? that is a controversial issue whether power africa will just focus on fossil fuels. from anybody. then i have one final question after that. . .

one of the areas where the department of energy is able to make a specific contribution to africa's capability by providing some of the expertise of our laboratories in these arenas.

already i think it is worth calling out that the pledges from private-sector partners to the beyond the great initiative are pretty considerable. it's more than a billion dollars over five years so while we don't have today specific long list of things that i've gotten done we think this is a very promising area for the growth of power africa an area where for certain settings there will be a lot of relevance. the last comment oh by the way it is not just the setting in rural africa where off grid and microgrid systems are relevant. that is equally true in remote settings in the united states, alaska for example and even in very nonrural settings such as the microgrids, the separate

grid systems for example we are looking at in places very highly urbanized parts of our country where in times of grid instability the commonality with some of the grid systems you can island off the particular part of the grid to protect critical load, hospitals, transport systems etc.. >> thank you. i'm sorry. >> if i might, obviously no africa is blessed with renewable resources. the u.s. is a member of the internationally known agency and what i reina has been doing is to try to develop more extensive maps of the resource, renewable resource potential throughout africa. this is clearly showing in the sense there is a range of resources whether it's geothermal in ethiopia or

whether it's winded in kenya of course hydra resources are still very important for the continent and in some cases solar power for larger grid connecting applications. i was struck at the african ministerial about how consistent the ministers were in stressing the important role that they saw were nobles play in a diversified energy mix. and so i think many countries have moved to develop the incentive frameworks for interconnection of her noble energy. i think in some cases clearly they are looking at a mix of both were nobles and natural gas to have a cleaner fuel system. and that varies widely depending on whether you are talking about north or south or central. >> thank you.

is it elkind? >> it's elkind but i will answer to anything including hey you. >> just don't call you late for dinner. he said in your opening remarks there were 500 participants and i was just coming in trying to get situated. where was back? >> thank you for the question. this was the u.s. africa energy ministry that took place in early june in ethiopia. it was hosted by the government of ethiopia, cochaired by the secretary of energy dr. money's and the ethiopian minister of energy and water. >> then mr. postel he said nigeria recently privatized five generations up companies and 10 distribution companies.

is that correct? >> correct. >> colunga was that? >> over the course of the last 12 months. >> so the government itself had distribution facilities? >> yes, they have. >> what percentage does that it equates to a nigeria? is that half of the facilities or third? >> i can give you the precise answer off the top of my head. i believe it was at least half if not a bit more. >> so in 1212 months as i've been a viable function or are they functioning properly? now in the business so it's impossible to do it without any problems he. he is grinning like a possum in yellowjackets. are they operating without problems? >> my colleague dr. elkind has

information he will add add that my understanding is each company is in a different situation and that some are operating very well well and some with pickups that i would characterize them as growing pains but in general a lot of the operations went forward. >> by the way i did want to ever ranking member that texas has its own grid so if you come to texas 85% of status covered by her kind so if you want to get that great in africa come and see us. the next question, you are stuck on a possum eating yellowjackets. mr. postel from my notebook notes about you you said you developed a plan first international securitization of foreseeable rules without a corporate guarantee. >> yes, sir. >> explain that. >> this was financing for the government of jamaica in 1988.

it was the first finding that they had obtained from the private sector in something like 13 years because there had been rescheduling's and basically every year they were receiving payments from at&t for telephone calls that the diaspora was making to jamaica. we found that was predictable enough to give them the money upfront in essence. so we raised money in japan and we did that financing and it was all repaid. >> and you do the same thing with electrification of africa? >> i will have to think about that. >> that is what i thought it was. you also, it is that dr. elkind he said in remarks your remarks governance and transparency were key security concerns. protection of the people and the environment from sector impacts. i think i was writing fast and

furiously although that is a bad term now. i was writing quickly. what does that mean? >> i think obviously as we know from our experience here the environmental impact offshore and upstream oil and gas is a very important area to develop the capacity in these countries and that -- it was in that context that sector impacts is a little too vague but that is what we are talking about increasing capacities in the environment and management area. >> that is what i was wondering and you also said the ei gao extractable? >> it's an international initiative that transparency initiative. the u.s. is participating. the interior department and the u.s. has the lead on it and it's basically you know to enhance

accountability in terms of this important sector and the revenues. >> that's going to be important. you say also and i don't remember if you said africa or a particular country was at a crossroads. they had expensive renewable resources and emerging oil and gas market, i guess resources. quantify that for us percentagewise. 50/50, 60/40? >> well i think clearly there are a dozen or more countries where oil and gas is developing. some are more developed in angola and nigeria. others where exploration is just beginning in the early stages. i think it's a little bit too early to say exactly what that mix will be.

you certainly have countries like tanzania and mozambique where you you have in a sense worldscale gas resources that are being developed and that will then open up lots a lot of opportunities for them to have a significant gas role in their economies. at the same time for the electric power sector the economics of many of these renewable energy resources look very attractive especially compared to oil. many of the countries are still happening to use oil to generate and have a cost of 30 cents a kilowatt hour for power like in ghana which has to use oil because they are not able to get gas from nigeria in the pipeline. >> i looked at a map of africa in the search for pipeline infrastructure and it looks like what limited pipeline infrastructure they have is primarily in the north. i don't know if you are familiar with that map or not. >> they have the west africa

pipeline. >> it runs from algeria to nigeria. >> that's right so the problem is nigeria has a severe gas shortage because internal policies have been given the incentives for the development of the gas resources and therefore countries like ghana and others on the pipeline routes have not been able to get the gas supplies through that pipeline. >> is there a robust pipeline industry and/or associations in africa that's pushing for the installation of the pipeline and the pipeline and do we have property rights and how does that play if there is? >> thank you congressman weber. there is i think a natural unavoidable tension that will have to play out here and that frankly was one of the really core elements of our discussion in june that the militant ministerial meeting that i referred to in response to your question.

that is as one sees development of the oil and gas resources particularly in the frontier provinces east africa in particular how much of that is for domestic consumption versus export and international oil companies want to meet demand in the countries where they operate because that has a multiplier effect that is very beneficial for many those companies but they also need predictability in terms of offtake arrangements. so to your question is there a robust existing vision i would say no. there is a great deal of interest in some fairly ambitious ideas and goals in terms of development of east african gas pipelines for example to take gas to power

generation in south africa from mozambique as one big example. but the open issue which still has not yet played out is whether you know the steps can be put in place, the right policies, the right laws that give the investors enough predictability so that they will put down tens of billions of dollars for really multi-decade investment. >> and that brings me to well i have a question about ranking of the most favorable countries because clearly some countries are going to be better candidates than others on investing into infrastructure. but before i go there mr. elkind you also said you all had a

focus on performance of products on the marketplace making sure off grid systems actually perform. now when you say in off grid system described one of those to us. >> yes sir. so a small household or village level system that might include one or more solar panels perhaps paired with either storage capacity, battery systems or a fossil fuel diesel or other fossil fuel generating systems to use when the sun is not up in the wind is not blowing, that through to highly efficient lamps, refrigeration for

medicine, those kinds of applications. >> is that to say that if someone has a house out there with solar panels that there will be an effort to have regulatory rules in place that they have to meet certain efficiency requirements? >> no sir the point here is that there are lots of examples that one can see for example in solar lanterns where there were, there are products that are being sold into a number of marketplaces including a number of the african countries where the claims for the performance of the product simply don't match what the product actually does. in our context we call that false advertising, and so when the countries are saying how do we think about the technical challenge of knowing what product actually does what it

says that's an area where we have experience in the united states and can help to make that experience available. again it's at their request in the point is not to allow fraudulent claims in the marketplace. >> the last thing and i don't mean to speak for them but apparently one of the things you can say is the last thing you want is developing markets don't get burned for bad products. i guess all three of you i will give you my last question that i alluded to earlier. a ranking of the most favorable countries. i have to believe and you have all to lot of thought on this and i haven't just laid plans there are going to be a lot of factors whether they are good candidate. population, topography, gas oil pipeline availability, educational resources. you have that workforce that you can come in there and train how

to do this? of course i mentioned earlier property and ownership. can you own property and is there a system in place to take over to condemn property if you will right away? the timing isn't right for the country and the stability? is there a stable system of government? those are the seven things i came up with. do you rank countries which would be the best candidates for investment in their infrastructure? >> congressman thank you for your question. sounds like you were at some of these meetings where these things were discussed by listing all of those. >> no the nsa was there. i just got the tapes. >> so we don't have a public listing per se but in the first phase of power africa we did very carefully through a

rigorous interagency process discussed which would be the sixth focus countries and the factors that you describe are indeed many of the things that we looked at to try to assess who would be the good good partners and we will go through a similar process as we think about expansion. one of the ones -- there is plenty to say about all of them but one of the ones that i will spend a moment on is the host country's commitment because as some of the other testimony alluded to if you are trying to have viable electric utilities and if you are trying to solve some of the problems that private sector investors have encountered by trying to do viable deals you have got to have a commitment to do things differently. so that was one of the many components but that was one of the most important components to make sure we really had committed partners who would do this in partnership with us in the private sector.

>> congressman i can't give you a ranking but obviously i mentioned a number of the countries that we are working with on the oil and gas side and that are different, at different stages in their development. some are more gazprom and others look like they have good oil potential etc.. i think the companies, we have a range of companies the u.s. included that are working in these areas and that they are assessing the risk and they are assessing the commercial viability of the reese resources with a lot of exploratory drilling planned in some of these countries. i think over the last couple of years there has been a lot of activity in this area so i think it's going to be a couple of

years before this shakes out in terms of where our biggest opportunities are but clearly mozambique and tanzania in terms of world gas resources are ones that everyone is looking at as well as looking at the potential for east africa and including in south africa or the potential for that gas to develop infrastructure. there was recently a seminar that we had as part of the ministerial vet looked at the east africa gas infrastructure opportunities that was done by the colombian interests center and there's a report on it. i'd be happy to send you that issue. i think in terms of the issue of the investment climate, the question of whether countries, whether investors are willing to come in without sovereign guarantees is a key factor. in some countries i think

investors are saying in kenya we can do that. we are willing to come in without sovereign guarantee and in other countries you won't. and you have to look to our there in a sense guarantees and other mechanisms that the world bank or others can put in place that will in a sense mitigate some of the risks of investments? >> okay, thank you. i recognize mr. stockman. >> i thank you for the panel coming out today on a friday and according to your testimony you have been in government for 40 years and you mentioned you were in bangladesh. is that a good 40 years? my question is when i was over there in nigeria they were mentioning some policies and i'm wondering you had standards. are there any standards in which prevents interaction by the state department which is predicated on the government social policies or is it strictly benign interpretation

of the capabilities? in other words when i was in nigeria they were trying to free the girls that were kidnapped and the u.s. military said we need to get permission from our government to facilitate information and it was denied because the interpretation of the present leadership in nigeria. i'm wondering do you have similar restrictions on government such as uganda and nigeria saying we don't get involved because of their social policies or is that a separate issue? >> i think as we look at our overall engagement in the countries we will work very closely with ambassador and the embassies in assessing the political situation and the severity of the issues if there are social or human rights issues and make a decision on a case-by-case basis. i think it's hard to generalize other than to say we are not

pursuing energy for energy sake. it's part of our broader foreign-policy interest that takes into account a lot of these. >> would you or maybe a no off the top of your head is nigeria or uganda are there restrictions you have in terms of working with them on energy? >> i think right now -- we started in uganda early on in terms of the energy governance capacity initiative and we have done a lot of work on the geophysical site and environmental land-use planning etc..

>> so i was informed that we have scaled back our kidneys and we are looking at whether we can proceed now but i was asking is that because of social policies that you have scaled back? >> epping was a combination of things but i would like to get back to the specifics. >> i would appreciate that. think that would be very helpful. i think from mr. postel's department advocated we not involve her military intelligence in helping nigeria because of some of the interpretations of the current government's positions. to me it was a little bit alarming because i found out today that the chinese have given nigeria some of the equipment they have been requesting from the united states. my fear is because of our policies that we may be driving as you know the continent of

what is being recolonize not by the british and not by the americans but by the chinese. in the republic of, there was a whole mountain of copper as you know that was sold for pennies on the dollar and the chinese have their workers there and there is no interplay or development with the host country. it's very much, in fact i would argue worse than what the colonial governments ever didn't have the chinese are continually expanding their breath of energy involvement of my concern is they would put restrictions on ourselves to the degree that now we have become less important to those host countries. as you go forward i would hope you would see that the chinese are a serious player and in terms of competing with the united states could be problematic down the line.

you are shaking your head yes. i hope you can tell me. >> thank you congressman. i will definitely take note of your comments and i will investigate further in discussion and i'm not familiar with all the circumstances but certainly fully recognized the point you are making about the very active presence of china and africa. >> i would say sometimes i think we should do more pragmatic analysis and not involve -- i and mean we need to balance it in order to compete with our chinese competitors. in almost every country whether it's chad or egypt or sub-saharan africa i keep seeing the chinese in a heavy heavy way and privately i think it was the

republic of, some of the administrators say they prefer americans and for reasons in past history they have, some of those countries have embezzled and taken a lot of money from their own people. in some ways it's justified but my concern is interpreting internal social policies are beyond the scope of what the united states should be doing. i just want to express that and also i think in terms of the oil development and particularly in sub-saharan africa there are companies in my district baker hughes and halliburton and halliburton is in abu dhabi or dubai. they have moved. they would like to be in their but there is the foreign corruption act and there can be a misinterpretation of that law being applied to the company.

to that extent i think there's a great deal of frustration on our side in houston where we would like to see more cooperation. i think in deference to our own corporations if you could give them guidance and what they can do to facilitate more involvement in those countries it would be a great boon. we have no problem with fracking in our state but i'm still saying i think it would be beneficial to the united states and in maintaining that it would keep our influence there. i'm just alarmed at the rise and you guys know i'm right the rise of china and there are. obviously they have almost no restrictions whatsoever and they have no compunction about paying leaders large sums of money in order to facilitate their advantages that -- and with that idea back to my chairman. >> thank you very much.

i would like to ask one final question at the end. it has to do with obviously the terrorist threats to many countries and people in africa from boko haram to al-shabaab are very significant and wondering how to empower african integrates protecting infrastructure and of course the people and personnel against a terrorist attack including cyber attacks which we know could be devastating to an electoral power grant or any other that's out there. perhaps if you could speak to that issue. >> thank you for the question chairman. i will defer to my colleagues specifically in relation to power africa and those engagements there.

i can tell you that the recognition that we encounter from energy companies and energy agencies, ministries and our international engagements to an ever-increasing degree recognized the importance of protecting infrastructure. one of the things the department of energy does is to enter into cooperative engagements with key international partners and we do this at their expense, at the expense of the host country to help them identify vulnerabilities, plan their systems so that they are resilient to any threat at all hazards approach whether someone is talking about severe weather, cyberattack or physical attack and we have found that this is an area where the united states is in a position to add a

tremendous amount of value from our experience. i will have to defer to my colleague as to whether that is being done by empower africa in which case i don't know the answer myself. >> thank you for the question mr. chairman. i will doublecheck but i believe that some of these exchanges depending on the topic that are of interest to the energy regulators, the powerful operators or the utility i believe some of these exchanges that i will be sending you details of have included those kinds of topics. the other of course being the involvement of the private sector because a lot of the private sector investors have a lot of experience. when they're investing from offshore i think they're looking at all risks and that's another avenue on the topic which is they stand to lose a lot of money if they don't pay attention to these topics. and so we also are involved to

work with local folks to look at that. >> just be certain it's integrated into planning and development and the like in its implementation? >> i want to doublecheck on that sir because i don't know if its demand-driven or integrated and i will come back to you with a specific answer. >> thank you. i would say in a sense we are in the early stage of developing the electricity grid systems in africa. we have the three powers west and south. in that process and working with the international financial institutions like the world bank and the african development bank there is a lot of consideration about security and reliability issues that are going into the development of the loan programs and specifications for what kind of systems they can put in place. clearly it's going to be an

issue that is going to be with us especially as they begin to invest more and more in developing high-voltage transmissions. >> with the expertise of homeland security for the pentagon or the state department be incorporated? i say that because after we got into nairobi i chaired a review board after 1998 terrorist attack. i will never forget when assistant secretary carpenter said that they will look for any vulnerability and that nothing is off-limits and i'm paraphrasing of course but in 1999 when i chaired the hearing and out of that i wrote the embassy security act which became law and the setbacks that bobby inman talked about were all finally implemented because they had not been implemented

for years. they are in the process and some of our missions abroad but it was a lesson i learned that people thought it would not happen here and let their guard down and of course those who wish us ill in the various networks will look for any vulnerability the usual word which i think is the right word or if you could get back to us if you would on how that whole process of protecting and i'm glad you elaborated as well that is not just against terrorism but it's against earthquakes and natural disasters as well. anyway we can be helpful in promoting even more of that because i think going forward they will be increasingly at risk. the terrorists are not foolish. they will look for anything which will do the maximum damage. but i thank you for your answers as well.

>> ms. bass anything you would like to say before we conclude? >> i think i can speak on behalf of my colleagues at the table and we reiterate our thanks all of you for your leadership and your interests. we are not going to collectively sell this challenge without your help and we very much appreciated. >> thank you. it's a pleasure and thank you for taking the lead in doing it so effectively. the subcommittee members of both sides of the aisle are greatly appreciated if of what you've accomplished and well a compass going forward. thank you. >> i would like to welcome her second panel beginning first with mr. williams who is president and ceo for leadership africa usa and alternative marketing access. mr. williams is a management consultant with more than two decades of experience working with government corporations ngos and multilateral institutions. his areas of expertise and strategic advice include energy infrastructure finance management and communication.

he has worked with the u.s. department of energy and the first u.s. africa energy material in morocco and another dispatcher in ethiopia. mr. williams was also instrument on bringing the house and the senate together in the african diplomatic corps for an historic and ongoing set of meetings that we have had to meet with the african ambassadors and others from all of the african countries and i want to thank you for your leadership in making that happen. we will hear from diane southerland who has been working with africa for the last 17 years. 13 of those years as a resident of egypt. ms. southerland entered the oil and gas business in 2001 and by late 2002 launched what is known as petroleum africa magazine. in january 2000 issue launched alternative energy africa magazine. additionally she offers --

offers her services as a consultant in ghana. we will be hooking up with her by way of video but if you will mr. williams begin with your testimony. >> thank you chairman smith, ranking member bass, member stockman. i appreciate greatly this opportunity to come before you this afternoon to talk about energy as something that is of critical importance not only to africa, it's important to the u.s. economy and i've got some prepared remarks that i'm going to refer to and i've also submitted testimony. i'm going to take a different take than the first panel because i'm coming from the civil society side of the ledger

and i wanted to take a few moments and talk about leadership africa. we did programs throughout africa and before that i was very instrumental in working in the caribbean on the caribbean initiative. i want to say to you in the ngo or civil society in organization working in africa can only implement programs if there is energy in power and electricity. we are kidding ourselves, my emphasis as i spent on education and if we don't have electricity in the schools and if we don't have computers that kids aren't getting an education. so by necessity we have adopted and started to work and move into the energy sector in order to ensure that the programs that we put together can be leveraged and can be sustainable.

chairman smith referred to some meetings that we did several years ago but the background on that was the african ambassadors have an african african ambassadors group and they meet regularly once a month. they were not involved in the deliberations around a go i sewed two or three years ago we took it upon ourselves meeting with them informally and we wanted to hear from the african ambassadors. we wanted to hear from the beneficiaries of these programs that we talked about earlier this morning, what their take was, what thoughts i had about solutions to some of the challenges that are affecting them and that they are confronting. with that in mind, we spent some time working on a go of. it is up for reauthorization but between now and september 15 and it's a very important initiative. we are not going to say here this afternoon that we as an ngo community we as a civil society,

we link subnineteen energy. if you don't have the energy you are not going to make the kinds of changes and have the productivity that you want through agoa because you can't industrialize. you don't have the energy and the metrics and the solutions. i am saying to you we link like that ambassadors link agoa and a link energy. there are two key priorities for them and i want to suggest that when i mentioned in my prepared remarks references to agoa it's because they see agoa link to energy. we don't do it quite that way but that's how the african ambassadors and that's how the african heads look at that time, those two issues. there was referenced earlier this morning to the u.s. africa

energy ministerial. leadership africa had the privilege of coordinating that meeting in ethiopia on behalf of the u.s. department of energy. so i was happy to hear that the u.s. department of energy and those who attended were successful and as we did have five other participants. we had about 120 corporations both u.s. and african companies participated. and it was successful enough that when i came back and when i heard in ethiopia i have been pushing and this is the point i want to make. we need follow-up. we need consistent intentional follow-up. we didn't get into it to coordinate with u.s. department of energy and we had have 13 u.s. entities participating without there being follow-up. while the focus of that was power africa they announce beyond the grid at that session in ethiopia and it is going

forward but i'm going to suggest picking up on what ranking member bass said earlier that we also need to bring additional players to the table and in my prepared marks i talked about small minority and women owned businesses. i talk about that in linking them with their counterparts in africa. why do i say that? if you look at what's going on in the continent there is a policy which the african governments called localization. they are saying to our u.s. companies if you potentially want to work in our country and if you are looking for business opportunities in our country you need to find a way to train our local citizens reading to find a way to participate. it's in our self-interest and i think there was a nice marriage between our small business community and the african business community to share, to work together around and under

power africa and of course mcc's program because there is what what we referred to in the private sector and money sock and where there's money you know you're going to get paid. we just need to make sure that these programs encourage those companies, our u.s. companies and others reaching out to their smaller business community to make sure there are opportunities for them to participate. i also my have my prepared remarks talk about something that i think needs to be more focused on and that is what i call regionalization. i believe and i have made suggestions that the way to really deal effectively with energy electricity and power is in a strategy working with the groupings that are in place in africa. in some sense you might find it's easier to take electricity

from donna and shifted into a neighboring country than it is to use it internally. so i've been in conversations with d.o.e. and i think that is a strategy that if they can find a way to do that it starts to lead to some other things which we call trade civilization. electricity is so powerful that if you came to me and said we are going to have a regional approach of electricity it starts to develop trade facilitation among the leaders because it's something they'll share a need for pages get them talking you start to break down some of the barriers around working across borders and in terms of these priorities. i didn't as you notice her pieces -- repeat the statistics. we know over 600 million people in africa are without

electricity. we know that africa needs resources but the other thing that africa does need, it needs training and capacity development. that is something that the u.s. government and their agencies are very capable of providing and doing. we just need to make sure that we continue to work together like they are doing with the power africa working group which is an excellent program. i am pushing very hard for the eaa program, electrify africa program because it sort of stabilizes and puts in place a long-term solution. i'm also saying that we need to encourage and listen to our african partners. we need to hear from them and went to look at more partnering relationships to maintain our competitive advantage. when agencies talk and i'm a

little bit involved in the industry. the agencies don't control any energy. they don't control any oil so you really do need to find a way to create public private partnerships and be supportive of those entities in the u.s. that do have access to these resources and hear from them like i'm listening to the african ambassadors and the african heads on what they think will help them do a better job and create employment opportunities not only here in the u.s. but in africa. i think with that i will defer to my other counterpart if she is here. >> mr. wayne's thank you very much free testimony. without objection your full statement will be part -- made part of the record. we welcome from houston texas diane southerland and you are recognized. please proceed. >> good evening. i would like to give my appreciation of the subcommittee

to testify at the hearing today on africa's energy future. since entering the african energy industry over 14 years ago i witnessed a fast transformation in the comments fossil fuel and alternative energy sectors and in parallel significant growth in international investment. the continent is sorely underpowered and access to clean affordable energy is a luxury to most of its over 1 billion population and despite the continent possessing 6% of global oil reserves and responsible for 10% of global production the majority of africans do not reap the benefits of those resources. many of these underpowered companies are in earned incredible sums of revenue.

very little is in turn invested into power infrastructure. the companies opening up africa's oil and gas potential are predominately small to midsized independent firms with limited capital. a security exploration the exploration licenses, conduct the geophysical work and then market their findings to larger multinational firms to secure funding and minimize the risk of drilling. this trend has been achieved through discoveries over the past few decades and opening up of new frontier basins. in the past 10 years significant oil and gas discoveries have been discovered in countries such as ghana, kenya, mozambiq mozambique, tanzania, uganda and others. improved technology deployment has also played a large role in enabling these discoveries. some of these developments in the deep offshore in the gulf of

mexico. while natural gas was not too long ago considered a nuisance byproduct in sub sahara africa the resources increasingly utilized in large-scale operations such as lng, power generation and transport of pipelines and also in smaller gas operations such as lpg and cng. with the no natural gas research across africa and sub sahara that condit is it gas player to be reckoned with in the future. in mozambique and tanzania alone there is reasonable confidence of the two areas together hold the resource of at least 190 trillion cubic feet with expectations that proved reserves could more than double future exploration. the shale boom is not exclusive to north america. africa too has her share of unconventional resources they shale oil, shale gas and methane

are now receiving attention from governments and the private sector in the number of projects are afoot. as for alternative energy there were literally hundreds of small scale projects established in the works not to mention the dozens of larger scale projects on the drawing board. these translate into billions of dollars of investment for the continent. the sector is making progress with renewable specific legislation emerging in many countries facilitating development of industry. in addition to the major windfarm and solar projects on line or under construction in egypt and ethiopia, kenya, morocco and south africa, the continents power resource is enormous with some estimates having it accounted for 12% of the world's potential. the chinese are already heavily investing in africa's hydropower and their funding 500 billion towards cóte d'lvoire silver. ethiopia is looking to develop

six cable was power in the grand democratic republic of, will be the world's largest implemented as an vision. not to be left out is geothermal. kenya is set to construct new geothermal power plants by december 2015 and in fact his strategy would make it the number one geothermal producer by the year 2033 if executed accordingly. and having a near-term tangible impact in the lives of africans or the small scale off grid rural projects. these projects are varied and include household solar projects committed to waste to energy, rooftop solar, wind and biofuels in bioclass of applications. perhaps the greatest achievement over the decade has been seen in the manufacturing sector -- sector with solar panels

emerging to meet growing regional demand. this trend has led to it technology transfer with africans need to invite services to their communities. in addition other small projects have a lot typical income villagers to become small-business owners and in turn pass on technology to their communities. this development is certainly a success story by any measure. and in closing the hydrocarbon renewable initiative set forth by african governments as well as global partners are paying huge dividends rate while much progress has been made there's a long road ahead to bring africans up to a first world standard of living. american know-how investment can play with major role in making that happen. thank you. >> ms. sutherland thank you for your testimony and for your insights and expertise. i would like to now yield to miss bats. >> thank you. i appreciate you going out of

sequence for a minute. i really want to ask a couple of question but i first want to address my college representative stockman. with the concerns you are raising about china and i think one of the first things we can do hopefully before the lame-duck is over is take care of two things up our africa that is in the senate and also agoa. to the extent that we can increase our participation because i know i have heard from many many african countries how much they do want to do business with us but sometimes we put our own roadblocks up. exactly. mr. williams had just wanted to ask him i was asking the first panel about power africa and its reach into urban areas in the residential areas, not the commercial and also in the rural areas and you representing civil society i just wanted to know your take on the same question i asked the first panel. >> i believe and it's anecdotal

to some extent but i do believe having, that the u.s. africa ministerial and looking at the effective role and the amount of discussion we talked about with grids, many grids and getting electricity into rural areas and then that the leaders summit i attended a session called africa rising and there were many many entrepreneurial type thing simply entrepreneurial i mean they are sustainable. they're going into rural minis and creating opportunities for young people to supply electricity and make a little bit of money to keep it going and keep their incentives that. so it's happening and it could be expedited but it is happening and it is part of when you get beyond the grid part of the power africa agenda to expand

this. >> maybe ms. sutherland if you would like to respond to that as well. >> i'm sorry i thought the question was addressed to my colleague. >> it was but it was to you too. i was just wondering your opinions on how power africa and their effort reaching beyond commercial areas and going into urban residential and rural areas. >> i am not that familiarized with that aspect of the industry as my focus is on the petroleum industry however i do know the african communities do appreciate american investment. there are absolutely other investments available to the rights of china. they do like the americans better and i know there are several small-scale projects emanating from the united states

supplying off grid signatures such as the solar lanterns, replacing kerosene in the cooking stoves. they are really quite receptive. >> going out of order i will recognize mr. stockman and then back to do cleanup. >> i'm glad you're from houston. i represent houston as you know fracking was a critical part of george mitchell's portfolio and i think he really changed and revolutionize the world when he developed advanced fracking. i think we lost her. that's okay. i would like to ask mr. williams in terms on our side your free market can you be blunt enough to tell me how is it that we are impeding and in what ways we can

induce -- undo something to make it more beneficial for both sides? how is the government -- a lot of times we have passed laws that have very well-intended meeting -- meaning but ultimately it ends up impacting your industry or other industries quite frankly in a negative way and i would like to know what laws we have passed that were meant to be for good and are not. >> in response into the undiplomatic i don't think anyone ever passes a law that they don't think is not going to work the way they intended it to work so we will start with that premise. the thing that i feel that we miss out on is that we don't really listen to the beneficiaries. i'm talking about the u.s.. the u.s. has great reach. if i was to ask an african energy minister to pick up your

conversation about china where would they like, who would they like to work with? unanimously it would be with the united states that we do put in place, not the law but the policy and how the laws going to to be implemented that creates obstacles and the obstacles and then in a global economy. remember oil is a global economy, supply and demand so no with no one country can control that whole industry. ..

>> >> i think we can just look at no offense to the state department but to just disguised that -- discussed the pipeline is unfortunate the state department is in commerce but from the energy minister that this has not

been resolved from 18 years ago. but my hope is this is legislation than is absolutely true to get a fair shake from americans. to have open labor and train them with the technologies and skills to invest in infrastructure. this with the chinese are more parochial. they don't even get to intermingle. i would request to give back the policies.

and is just you and me and connie chung. but we're doing a better job and we appreciate that. >> take power after can begin. but it takes years to develop the infrastructure projects. but we have technology we can drop almost instant generators to feed it while be billed out a more sustainable power supply. with those shortcuts had to be more effective.

>> but then to have great compassion they want what the rest of the world wants the the government interrupts and disruptive to the peoplehood we say we want to help perot to appreciate the sacrifices and i apologize for that bureaucracy. >> don't get me wrong. >> but we can do better. i hear the conversations from their side of the government officials and i will use profanity there but i am upset that time and time again.

>> just a few final questions. the queue again for your leadership. tel the participants than the nongovernment actors were selected. to have the diaspora its is it so selection? -- so selection are by invitation only? and the issue is being a member of congress 34 years now with waste energy initiative with that

municipal garbage and it was as pristine as it could possibly be. since and it is cleaner. those that circulate to the industrialized nation people cut concert -- cut corners. what you do with it? as it is incorporating the energy initiative as part of the of mix. and i did ask the earlier panel, but i am very worried about cybersecurity issues

and terrorism. it does not take much with the improper safeguards whereby the infrastructure can be demolished very quickly. led to talk about china we know it as repayment. and with access to that royal often the weapons are in the mix and i wonder with the people's republic of china that to deal with the united states of america and the private sector as well.

try the chinese still out competing us? >> the key for your first question. in response will for the outreach. with u.s. department said energy handled the purchase a patient and came to participate but we reached out to everybody. we made it inclusive then even with the african businessmen so they have to pay something but it is the patents with the meeting to

participate and benefit. it is with the leadership africa. the second question is waste. we were in ngo the works in rural communities. and with the code generation turning into energy. to find it live in egypt there is a huge project going on. and those were dealing at the university level. it attracted to young people

and have some money coming from that to generate electricity for everybody. >> with my question about gaps, one was that urban part, are we reaching out to states and local governments? and to report the central government and if you can touch on that. and we know it when we see

it. and then to see that municipalities does anybody have a backdrop that we succeed in this effort? >> this is the glass is half full or half-empty. when you talk to a company that says we are a chinese company you know, if it is partially owned by the government or any government so putting our companies into that mix it is hard to compete and though that clarification and clarity and everyone works within the bounds so it would be

helpful not to be put afoul of that law. but that past amount of finance, we're there for so long run. the african governments need to move it out of the leadership with the head of the ministries and government officials and talking to the business people like here they can talk to the government but they need the support. >> mentioning the other issue a more general

question and also with that waste energy how wide sprayed -- widespread are those projects to take care that municipal waste problem? coz liggett the aquifers and the water systems. >> we are competing pretty well. and the transparency issue is very big in africa but

1718 countries signed up. so those who have not yet signed up or are waiting to be approved is very attractive. and sometimes comes with very little strings attached so that is very attractive. chinese technology although vastly improved name and those oil companies in africa to work with american and services firms and as regards with waste to energy with all over the continent

small-scale and medium scale. is the waste energy to power the facility. so municipal waste energy has high a potential. it is cropping up as investment comes along. >> thank you for coming back on line. >> sorry about that. technology fails sometimes. >> hydropower is still a factor with the major projects with ethiopia to have regional implications to make it difficult.

>> basically it is the governmental power play i'd think that ethiopia project if not for the arabs during to have the governments in disarray in egypt generally would have seen that project had egypt not have the difficulty or for several years to come. but that being said he will find in the not too distant future. >> 10 years from now can you

make any projection as to how many people on the subcontinent have access to electricity? >> i don't see a huge increase may be 15 percent over the next decade. such does geothermal. >> i have to share her assessment. there will not be a substantial number of people to have access to electricity in africa after year on the current level we're on right now. e. even in 20400kb500 that

don't have power. >> we will end on that point. anything else? >> 84 the opportunity and privilege to be here. and i will get back to you and applaud your leadership. >> thank you very much. >> the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

>> bob is probably the most important figure in wisconsin history and one of the most important of the 20th century in the united states. he was a reforming governor to define what progressivism is in was the first two road use that to solve identify. and by his peers in the 1950's hendon's end up proponent of a world war i to stand his ground. so was part of the 1890's would give speeches all over wisconsin. if you wanted to speaker for your club or group bob boyd give the speech. county fair's, every kind of

defense you can imagine. by a 1900 he was ready to run for governor advocating. >> but right was actually born not too far from here. the family took him away to massachusetts for a tie and then he came to madison and spent his teenage years there then very briefly before he decided to take off for chicago that he should come down to this part of the country to where her family was. and spent summers here.

so that is where he got two things the love of nature and also his understanding of typography. >> just so you know, the microphone will not help to

amplify as it is for c-span and so we will try to speak ups a you can hear as. thank you for coming today. client said director for the coalition and i will be moderating the panel today. and then to coordinate those logistics' and then policy makers on both sides of the aisle to be put on a sustainable path of the national debt to reinvigorate our struggling economy. from the fiscal crisis and the government shut down and they failed to produce. some have said is time to move on from that budget

debate but the long term fiscal outlook as soon as 2016 arrives approaching trillion dollars at the end of the decade. to face the deadlines 910 or 20 years but our hope is that they will turn the challenges into opportunities. and to those of you for the mantle of responsible leadership and others are here to assist you. we're here to discuss the opportunities and what they might look like. senior policy director previously serving as associate director for the commission on the 2011 senior budget analyst also

known as the super committee. the director of economic policy and worked with senator domenici on the senate budget committee. 198136 and then have the executive director of the bipartisan debt reduction force also known as the debt reduction commission. with that i oppose the first question to the panel then we will open to the audience for questions. what do you see is a major opportunity for progress and how can i best take advantage of that? >> thank you for being here. been thinking of organizing the event so i have

substantial experience. [laughter] but the concept of the grand bargain that was pretty broadly agreed to for simpson-bowles, a lot of agreement what the grand bargain should look like the both sides have to agree to cut excess of defense and nondefense but to talk about entitlement programs with republicans would have to raise additional revenue from the tax cut by cutting the $1 trillion of simplifying the code and also to tax reform reasonable spending cuts but

unfortunately is not where we ended at up when the speaker of president obama tried instead we had defense spending and we ended up with revenue with that top 1 percent and it was in different ways then we'll let the sequester hit. so of defense and nondefense with this situation we enacted the grand bargain but a substantial deficit reduction. enough to do is stabilize our debt and then to promote

wealth and reasonable choices. now to take the grand trunk of the grand bargain and don't want to call it dead but but to come back with this package look at what is discussed now than likely in the next few weeks or months right now to deal with the tax extenders for every year until we renew them. but three months after that there is a sustainable growth rate it will also add to the deficit. so these though actually take us backwards but

they're also opportunities to help us move forward to be a launching pad. , the health reform side there is an agreement of the bipartisan by general agreement which basically cuts across the board to reward physicians. there is broad agreement with a piece of legislation sets of parts that you will replace it. so let's get that talking points after the election

there is agreement from both sides with the corporate tax code but right now 35 percent is the highest tax rate but because there are so many loopholes we're not raising very much revenue. if you look at the framework that the chairman put together there is a lot of cover rise. and then to be more competitive but to increase the deficit.