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>> up next, laura auricchio recounts the life of marquis de lafayette and wil the role he played in the american and french revolutions. this is about one hour. >> okay. i'm tim marshall, provost of the new school and i'm delighted to welcome everyone here for this wonderful event to launch laura auricchio's new book which is right here. [applause] "the marquis: lafayette reconsidered" which came out this month published by -- this has been research over the course of seven years it's a major biography that don't into the personal life of the passionate french hero of the american revolution over several tumultuous decades.

the book provides a depiction of some accounting figures of this historical period while eliminating and exploring the new role of the press and public opinion in the politics of the time. the personal letters of the marquis de lafayette which can be found in the collection of the library of congress and cornell university provides many of the books anecdotes. a few words about laura. she's a specialist in 18th century french history and art and received her undergraduate degree from harvard and ph.d from columbia university. she's been recipient in the fulbright foundation, and columbia university. currently she serves as the dean at the school of undergraduate studies at the new school for public engagement for which i am extremely grateful. she's doing an amazing job. and before i close, one of the reasons i accepted her kind invitation to come and openness event is i'm still actually upset she never gave me a job

that i applied for that she knocked me back on was to be her driver around france visiting shadows and councils. i don't think she took me seriously but i thought it was a great gig and i'm disappointed you didn't take me up on the offer but nevertheless congratulations on a wonderful book. it's an incredible piece. i'm looking forward to reading it. i just love the fact it is a heavy book. thank god it's not electronic. laura, please come up. [applause] >> thank you, everybody, but especially tim. as i explained at the time, the reason that the job went to somebody else was they went to a scotsman who promised to wear a kilt as he drove me around, and he did. [laughter]

and when we stopped at a truck stop at one point in the middle of the trip i was the only woman in the truckstop, and he was the only one in a skirt. [laughter] so it made for quite the scene. but thank you. thank you, jim, i am indebted to tim for office support to all my support here at the new school. i'm deeply grateful to the rest of the leadership at the new school, david van zandt, mary watson, and also today particularly to pa pam toles and brandon visher that been a tremendous job of organizing this event, and luis jaramillo, the director of the graduate writing program at the new school with whom we will be in conversation later. i wanted to take a moment to issue a few personal and professional thanks to the q. wilson, my wonderful editor,

britney, the wonderful publicist. i agree silverman the wonderful assistant to the q. wilson. as well as my family, husband and friends and colleagues who have all turned out tonight to make a completely full house which absolutely flatters me. to let you know we we are going to be doing this evening, the plan is for me to read for just about 15 minutes and then i look forward to speaking with you about the book at greater length. the book covers lafayette's entire life from 1757 height team -- 1757-1854. lafayette lived a very tumultuous and exciting life. for that reason the book really focuses primarily on two large episodes of his life, the two episodes that defined him.

this was his period during the american revolution entering the french revolution. and am going to read again for no more than 50 minutes from the section about the french revolution. or fifth, 1789, alarm bells sounded as thousands of market women stream towards the hotel. the women known to their critics as fish wives wielded pikes and pitchforks as they hauled heavy damage across the cobblestone. when lafayette reached the scene later that morning the national guard just managed to rouse the crowd of would be arsonists from the government building. the guardsmen strained to the people pouring in the case along the adjacent street. incensed by the soaring price of flour which left him unable to feed their families, the women were joined by husband, brothers

and sons all of whom shouted for bread. they were certain that an aristocratic plot was at the root of their starvation. lafayette struggle to prevent the march that was rapidly becoming inevitable. from nine in the morning until 4 p.m., lafayette refused to sanction of march 2 person -- versailles. back and forth he went alternating between closed-door meetings with elected representatives of the paris commune and high decibel debates with the crowd. convinced an attack was imminent, a young lieutenant cried out my general, the king has fooled us all. you and everyone else. he must be deposed. but still lafayette refused. finally between four and five, he came to understand the any

opportunity to prevent a march past. dominated by women and men armed with knives, types, pitchforks, started pulling cannons towards versailles. in the meantime the weather had grown steadily worse. powerful winds had sprung up and a chilling rain was falling but the crowds determination showed no sign of flagging. after a command from the paris commune who authorized, even ordered him to transport himself to versailles, lafayette mounted his white horse and took charge of several national guard regiments. together, lafayette and his troops accompanied the crowd of some 30,000 armed and angry parisians o on the seventh our truck along 40 miles of dark and muddy roads. according to marie antoinette's lady in waiting, news of the national guard had set out from paris reached versailles that

afternoon king was something. -- was hunting. the royal household left into action. they set out on horseback to encourage louis xvi to abandon that day's hunt and returned to the palace. a government minister charged with overseeing the king's household sent a letter to marie antoinette urging the royal family to depart immediately some 20 miles southwest. and servants began packing bags and loading carriages to let the royal family the west to safety. a few carriages were on the road when an update arrived. the first parisian women were drawing near. versailles have not been designed to withstand a military

attack now it's limited defenses were mobilized. gates that it stood open for century were pulled shut and locked. the regiment assembled on the rounded has in front in the swiss guard made ready to stand its ground in the inner courtyards and gardens. these and other preparations were in progress window at the 16th and his entourage returned bearing new orders. taking had passed the parisian women as he made his way back and give them gratified to hear cries of long live the king from the crowd. reassured he would be safe, he called off the move, and worried a show of royal force would cause rather than prevent an escalation of violence can't be ordered the regiment to retire to its barracks. and then dutifully obeyed as they made their way to their quarters they found themselves pelted with rocks and gunshot. when luis heard the news he began to reconsider, but the

moment to flee was lost. lafayette knew none of this as he made his way slowly towards versailles to meet a fate that was uncertain at best. now in 1789 he still possessed the composure that served him so well in 1778. with scores of lives in his hand, don't his own and his companions but the lives of the well family, he did everything in his power to ensure a peaceful resolution. with the sound of drums and torches hurled in his approach, lafayette halted the march of around 11:00 near the meeting hall in versailles. there he administered an oath to

remind his troops of their allegiances. the men swore to honor the nation, the law and the king before continuing on. two officers were sent ahead to the château and assurances that lafayette came to protect the king and not to oust him. of representatives appeared to inform lafayette that they saw his approach with pleasure images except it is declaration of rights. happily everyone was in agreement on one point. they wanted to see a little bloodshed as possible. expecting cries filled the air as lafayette do closer to the polls but long live the king, long live the nation, long live lafayette and liberty shouted the crowd who have been driven by fear and desperation through miles of mud on the road to versailles. leading history get approached around midnight i committed by two civilians representing the paris city government. facing him from the other side of the padlocked grill, the swiss guard hesitated.

weary though they were of lafayette's motives be admitted into the courtyard and there into the château up the stairs into the chamber which he had waited a the king in 1774 when e was presented at court. but on this occasion the room was filled with shots instead of whispers. cromwell went the crowd that lafayette rejected the comparison to the brig general who would help workers with the execution of king charles i and the first civil war. cromwell would not have entered a long. still the accusation struck a chord. lafayette knew all too well that with one false move, instead of being a guardian he would have been killed. as he remembered the scene, lafayette a voice filled with emotion as he explained the reasoning that compelled him to march. sire, i thought it better to come here to die at the feet of

your majesty and to die uselessly elsewhere. louis xvi was in no position to argue. to give lafayette free run of versailles. by 2 a.m. some a symbol of order have been established at with the king's guards maintaining calm inside the palace and national guardsmen patrolling the grounds, marie antoinette thoughts turn to go to sleep with 40 station injures pushed up against her bedroom door. but a row stratfor 30 into giving the queen no time to dress they hustled her through doors down a back passageway towards the king's chambers tossing a petticoat after her. the ladies reached the king's door only to find it locked. enough and were let in by then louis was going to be a taken a public route to the queen spectrum at the first sound of

alarm. in the adjacent room, royal guards faced off against armed citizens while the queen queen e her with her children and retreated to the bedroom. at last, an exchange was reached, and calm returned to the château. daybreak found lafayette conferring with the king and queen in their apartment where the parisian troops now fraternized with the royal guardsmen. from the marble porch below, the clamor grew louder and more menacing. the people were calling in angry tones for marie antoinette. at first they only got lafayette. he stepped back inside and speaking again with the uneasy monarch he brokered another view. if they came with him to paris as the crowd demanded, he would guarantee their safety. they agree.

lafayette turned to the queen. come with me. alone on the balcony? yes, let us go. to get the lafayette and marines when it appeared before the angry crowd -- marie antoinette. lafayette resorted to a gesture that would later be cited by his enemies as a sign of doubledealing. he kissed the hand of the queen. with this, lafayette bestow his blessing on marie antoinette and changed the hearts of the people. long live the general, long live the queen. to the sound of cheers the pair left the balcony and began preparing for the journey ahead. at approximately 1 p.m. october 6, 1789 the royal family set out from versailles in a carriage. inside, marie antoinette clutched her diamond. outside of lafayette road beside the monarch on the handsome white horse keeping pace with the coach.

100 carriages followed behind there in the national assembly deputies while thousands of exhausted citizens and soldiers joined the journey on foot. it was six in the evening before lafayette reached the hotel and quite dark by the time the well family moved into a rambling suite of hastily evacuated apartment in their new home which stretched along the banks of the things. on the morning of october 7, lafayette attended what they don't have been a very awkward ceremonial event in the king's new chambers. for better or for worse it seemed that louis xvi was always have lafayette at his site. that the march to versailles ended so calmly was nothing short of extorted. october 5 had witnessed its share of the toes. the heads of two royal bodyguards have been transported to paris.

large-scale carnage have been avoided. much of the credit belonged to lafayette. is ability to think clarity of depression and his unparalleled credibility with the crowd had left him to wrest control from a.m. that night to lafayette proved to the world that he deserves his reputation as washington's protége. the future would bring challenges that might have been too much for any man. thank you. [applause] >> can we hear this? thanks everyone. [inaudible]

>> as lower is fixing her microphone, no cards were passed out before the meeting with pencils, so please write down your questions and that a certain point we'll click them and ask them from up here. that was great. >> thank you. >> so i was just struck yet again by how detailed that part was that you read. and i know that every bit of that was researched. i wonder if you could talk us through some of that research? especially the last bit when lafayette turns to the queen answers come with me on the balcony. >> sure. thank you and thank you for the question to yes, seven years of research get a lot of details.

a good deal of it ends up on the proverbial cutting room floor, but the trick for me in writing this book was because lafayette did live so long, and his life was so full of adventure, the trick was figuring out which episodes to focus on and then trying to bring those to life as fully as i could through as much detail as i could. in some cases the detail comes from newspapers or journals. in this case that particular piece of detail comes from memoirs of lafayette. there are many different accounts of that same event that were written by many different people. part of the trick also has been through sort out what's the most credible. that section seems to be

verified a couple different people but it is resented exactly as lafayette presented at. >> when you're writing a book like this do you only put in elements that you verify? >> yes. one thing when you're dealing with a figure like lafayette, for example, it was so beloved by so many americans and has been so much written about, what you find is in the second literature you find a lot of untruths are half-truths or partial truths or wishful thinking. all of the above really so that it becomes -- i became somewhat obsessive i said about trying to verify the sources for each one of these anecdotes. >> i was taken by something else on your facebook account which is a picture of some building at lafayette college and says he

changed his model to why not, which is a nice story. i guess if you talk about, give us the scope of what his life was like winking to the colonies when he was making and then what does the rest of his life look like? >> i think it's important to think about why he came to the collingswood is 19. it's one of the things i think is not necessarily been fully understood, the fact he was 19 and the fact he had never seen a day of battlefield action before he came you. it's not as though he was a general who was experienced in which is coming over to share his knowledge. is also coming to america to reinvent himself in the same way that many millions of americans have before and since, in order to create a new life. the fact that he might want to create a new life is being

somewhat surprising, but it turns out that he was actually somewhat of a fish out of water where he was. he was had versailles but he was married in two -- but some of it came from the provinces and the came from a very sort of rustic family and he did not have the graces that he needed to succeed in versailles. so we came here, and energy found his second chance. and here, george washington gave him an opportunity to really hone his skills as a military general. he became a hero both in america and france for his great successes. he went back to france, and as an american hero, and part of the store at thing is so interesting is that in america he was beloved as a frenchman in america. but in france he was always sourcing as an american in

france. so we sort of lived his life almost between two worlds. during the french revolution that really became apparent when he tried to chart a middle course between the radical republicans on one side, the people who wanted to create an american-style republic in france, and on the other side the people who supported an with monarchy and did not want to give over any power. so he was trying to chart this middle path, ended up having to flee the french revolution for his life where his head was being called for when he fled. he lived for many years after the french revolution starts in 1789. he lived until 1834, and he's involved with many, many more episodes, many, many more medical events. but none of them ever really

compared to his moments in the american and french revolution, which are the two that really came to define his life and came to define his different legacies on the two sides of the atlantic. >> how did you come to lafayette as a subject? >> he traveled in the same circles as the artist about what i wrote in my first book. nobody has wrote heard of her, but they should have because she's a wonderful painter. the metropolitan museum of art has what is called a masterpiece, a very large self portrait with two students issue seated behind where this enormous beautiful dress. she traveled the french revolution in the same circles that wanted to reform but not abolish the french monarchy.

that middleground has dropped out of the story. we know about the reign of terror ever know about marie antoinette, but we don't really know that there were people in between. my particular approach to lafayette, the approach i took in this book really was formed on my interactions with people in france. the book opens with my conversation with a curator at the versailles who was generously devoted a portion of american to bringing me to see a bust of lafayette. and, of course, the bust of lafayette is not kept any place where anybody would ever actually go in versailles. it's in a building and you have to walk across courtyards and couldn't find the right key.

this is something yet not ever been asked to do before, to locate the bust of lafayette. i'm looking at this bust and a curator says, in french, why should we have a bust of lafayette? and i thought maybe my french was faltering so i said, hardened? he said, he said it again but just large -- louder and slower. [laughter] so i started to tell them, naïvely, why we should have a bust of lafayette, that he was a hero. he was not impressed. even gestured to a plaque that was installed a few feet away, and this is a plaque that commemorated the lives of thousands of french soldiers and sailors who had died during the american revolution. he said, look, thousands of men died, french men died for your

revolution. we don't know their names. louis xvi bankrupted the country for the american revolution and he received his thanks in the guillotine. french for support in america a no-brainer as his name. why do you revere lafayette? that got me thinking. when i started to understand was that lafayette's actions and reputation during the french revolution left him with a beverage of that legacy their thinking had here. so in france as i alluded to in that section, he was seen as sort of a double dealer. the monarchist, the royalist thought that he was a traitor to his class and nation because, after all he brought a murderers the crowd to the door at versailles. on the other hand, the republicans, small or republicans, and france felt

that he was too close to the monarchy and even wanted to shore up the monarchy or perhaps replace it with himself. so the question of how one man who had very similar principles throughout his entire life could have possibly developed to such different reputations is really what motivated me to write the book. >> your story about the man to answer the question after reading and the lady spewed yes, thank you for making that the i was at lafayette college last week, actually the first place i spoke about lafayette two days after the book came out. a man in the audience came up to me afterwards, and it was extreme interesting to he said itma because, i was in france this summer and he said i was there for 10 days and i took one of those hop on hop off bus as

you take in paris. he said as a hop on hop off bus it went past the eiffel tower. they said, the guide on the bus said this is the part where the eiffel to situate and this is where lafayette fired on the people during the french revolution. he sort of had a point. lafayette was the command of the french national guard which, due to a series of very unfortunate circumstances did, in fact, opened fire on a group of people who were clamoring to declare the monarchy agitator in 1791. the man who came to my lecture at lafayette college came to find out if that was true. because it didn't seem to him possible that could, in fact, be true. but it is true and it is evidence i think of the legacy

that lafayette has left in france which is superb as different from inefficient we have of him in america. >> look at the eiffel tower in a different way, too. a place like kent state, it happened below the eiffel tower. >> it really was actually. it was the original kent state. the national guard fired on the people. >> how did your training as an art historian former writing of this book? >> a lot of the detail you've noticed and other people also noticed, the detail you find these details of what interiors look like, of what furniture, how furniture functions and so forth. i really wanted to attend the attention to try to bring to life the visual and material experience of actually being there. so i spent a lot of time driving

around and visiting château's com,visiting different places ad trying to capture in words. assistancthis is a big art histe trained to do to translate from the visual to the irbil. to capture in words and bring to life what a place look like or don't like or what it might have been like to walk through the grand basis at versailles, for example,. >> what was, what were some of the exciting things you found? >> well, there were dirty pictures. [laughter] spent the book will be for sale. >> that was one of the more surprising things spent where did you find those? >> on the internet where one finds all dirty pictures. [laughter] but in this case it was the internet, the archives online. to digitize in recent years.

to digitize a large number of their manuscripts and their images. there is a fair amount of pornography from the air of the french revolution politically motivated pornography. marie antoinette is the focus of much of it and that i did not and that it can fairly well-written about. because marie antoinette was not a popular character. but i did not realize that lafayette was often cast as her paramore and some of these episodes. i don't think i can describe them because i think we are being taped for tv. but i will just say that some of them are eye-opening. >> you touched on this a bit but because you have a certain amount of time to decide what to put in, his mother, sister and

grandmother were killed, had their heads chopped off on the same day, but that's one little moment. he must have had many moments like that. >> i have to say when you're reading about and visiting the places of the french revolution, there are so many small details that when you learned about them in history classes, tends to seem like it's part of the grand sweep of history. but when you read them in personal narratives and you imagined might have been like for a woman to watch her daughter and mother-in-law executed before her eyes and then knowing she herself is going to follow in the path, there's so much that is packed

into that. in order to make book a reasonably readable length, you can't, i couldn't find a way to go into great depth. so i guess in some cases i would hope that less was more than simply stating these facts would be powerful enough to convey. i tried to convey what it must have been like to really live through the terror which was called the reign of terror at the time by the people who instituted it. that's something that we know what it's like to live with terrorism, and i guess i tried to bring some of those details to light to give a sense of what it was like then, and maybe something we can relate to now. >> one thing that comes up often in the book is the issue of money. lafayette starts off not well

off in comparison to those he is hanging around with, then he inherits a lot of money and then he loses a lot of money. did you think about money when you were writing this? >> yeah, a lot. not my own personal money, but no, money action plays a very large role in it. this is part of the american mythology of lafayette is that lafayette bankrupted himself for the american cause but it's not really true. he did clothe and feed his troops at his own expense but that was normal for generals. he was living beyond his means as many members of the nobility did in 1816 to 18th century france this is one of those things where picking up tidbits, the library of congress has

lafayette archives, and these include account books and letters and so forth. one of the most interesting things to look at was looking at his account books, and realizing his own personal expenses were things like his box at the opera, his hair, his clothing, his habit of racing carriages through france and destroying the axles of the carriages in the process. that these things were so over the top that we actually have a letter from the person who capped his books saying, excuse me, i know that you're interested in become icing. the fact is any economies to be may have to start with you and you have to start tomorrow. he says that is the only way you will find your self in that happy state in which a man dies

and bequeaths to his children some portion of his a fortunate. so the accountant had clearly sort of lost it with lafayette's expenditures. all of this i share not because i want it all to make fun of lafayette, but really to making human. i think that's the point of the whole book in the sense is that we no lafayette as a statue. we no lafayette as a bust. we know him as a hero. but before he was a hero and a statue and a bust, he was a man and he made mistakes. a lot of us do. i think that understanding his humanity is i think important to appreciating what he did, what he accomplished despite his human flaws. >> one of the least characteristics that comes up often is what jefferson called

his appetite for popularity. you can also called enthusiasm, it is also very idealistic which is when you think about a 19 year old who is enthusiastic and idealistic and wants to be popular, that paints a very clear picture but it's also his personality that you portray throughout his life. it gets him into trouble. can you talk about that a bit? >> sure. the industry. they did say this was his great or small, his appetite for popularity. he wanted to be liked and loved, and it was very important to him as a was to meet people i think of this class and status in that period. his reputation was important to me. it was important not only that make a difference in the world but also he be remembered for

having made a difference in the world. and that sometimes he pursued in ways that backfired. but on the whole i think it was actually a pretty noble desire ultimately that fueled it. i think you did want to be popular just for the sake of being popular. i think you want to be popular because he had read a great book of greek and latin history. he is aware of the historic circumstances in which he lived and he envisioned himself as taking place in coming down to us through history as he did. >> he was also very influenced by the ideas of the enlightenment. where did he get those ideas? >> it's interesting. he was born in, as i said, in

the world country and he was raised on mostly an education that consisted of slightly overblown tales of his ancestors glorious. some of these turned out to be less glorious. for example, he had an uncle who died young because during a war because he captured a soldier and putting on the back of his horse on the saddle behind it but he neglected to confiscate the captives down before he did that. he was raised on tales of military glory but he then went to paris to be educated when he came into money. he was sent to paris to be educated and he attended schools that were infused with enlightenment ideals. he was very much influenced by the same ideals that influenced

jefferson and washington and madison and monroe. he was someone who read all of the documents that they had read. and then he read the documents and then he went on to craft foundation documents for france, the declaration for the rights of man that were based on the american documents and were written in dialogue literally with jefferson. we have copies of them. this is against the kind strange thing to discover when you spend seven years reading through these things. we have documents of lafayette's draft with jefferson's handwriting annotating it. it took some of jefferson's ideas and ignored others, but he was very, very much a man of the french enlightenment. >> that answers the first question went from the audience. >> well done. >> here's another question. do you think your book and research you did will change how the french think of lafayette a?

>> no. [laughter] sorry. >> turning to historical and biographical details into a narrative. >> is that your questions? i know my audience. said that again. >> turning details into a narrative. >> that was one of the most, for me that was one of the most challenging but one of the most fun parts of writing this book it as an academic, as a trained art historian you are trained to care sort of slightly less about the narrative. you are trained to give the facts and just the facts. the fact is that nobody wants to read just the facts. i took this opportunity since i was fortunate enough to be able to be writing for a trade publishing house. i was delighted to have the

opportunity to actually write a book that i thought people might want to read. that i might want to read. that took all of these seemingly dry and potentially uninteresting details and turn them into a rich, i don't know, tapestry through which you can really start to understand the look and the feel of the place. to which i hope to try to help people to understand or to imagine what might have been like to be lafayette or to be one of the people and lafayette circle although they were living so long ago that their lives were very much like ours in very many ways. it's different but also the same but i tried to bring those narrative details together with the goal of putting flash on those statues. >> successfully. >> thank you. >> what contemporary political

figures would you compare lafayette a? >> do we have any moderates left? [inaudible] >> he would be a moderate. a rockefeller republican. >> okay. what is your favorite memory or apposite from your experience of writing this book? >> my favorite memory? aside from the scotsman and the truck stop, i think that my favorite moment was actually probably that which i recount at the very end of the book in an office note in which i attempt to go and visit lafayette's grave in paris, over which an american flag flies. lafayette's grave in paris as you might imagine this and everything i've already said is

not a big tourist attraction. it's open for a few hours a week when the custodian is home. maybe. and so needless to say i arrived on the day or a moment when the custodian was not home. so i found myself wandering aimlessly and there was a castle and i went in. i sat down and that's actually what i found myself looking at the walls. that's where i discovered engraved in the walls and the marble the names and occupations and dates of death and order of death of everybody who was executed on that one side in paris.

i had this conversation with a sister with whom i spoke about this question of well, why didn't it is lafayette is a hero in america and not in france? her conclusion was basically that lafayette is a complicated figure, and the french revolution was a complicated time and people don't like complicated stories and people don't like to remember the french revolution and its full complexity. or something about that moment. it places a nice bookend to my experience because the book starts where i started with this conversation with the curator at versailles. why does and why should we have a bust of lafayette? indicated with my turn the question around to a french sister and saying, why don't you

have a bust of lafayette? there something about those two moments that were sort of beautiful to me. >> you take on the complexity of his life very well. one thing that stuck out to me was, the question i had at the very beginning was when is slavery going to we're its head? you take it on. could you talk about the? >> ashore. slavery -- sure. slavery appears in 1777 and lafayette arrived in south carolina. a ship is lost and they land and they are actually greeted by for enslavement who are out fishing at that moment. lafayette's first encounter with anyone in america is actually with slaves. he becomes an abolitionist and he becomes a very active member of the abolitionist movement.

in fact, he go so far as to attempt an experiment in gradual emancipation of slaves. he purchased a plantation in french guiana and he purchased the slaves on the plantation, and he purchased them with the intention of freeing the slaves. but when the french revolution game and all of his property was seized, the slaves were also seized as his property. so not he had purchased the plantation and the slaves intend to free them but then he didn't. the complexity of that kind of moral situation, i mean, i think that takes up only a small portion of the narrative but it

was probably the hardest part for me to write. because it was the single most complex and morally difficult. >> this is a totally different topic, question from the audience. could you talk about lafayette's relationship with napoleon? >> so napoleon did have lafayette liberated but only under extreme pressure from international government, and from popular opinion around the world. what i actually think that lafayette liberated was his wife it was very, very clever. when lafayette was in prison, at a certain point once it became apparent that his wife's going to be able to survive the revolution, she took herself and

her two daughters to the door of the prison in australia and said to the austrian authorities, if you're going to get my husband, you are going to have to keep us, too. did that hurt and but it became a cause célèbre throughout the world that the austrians were keeping three innocent women in prison. and it became a story that circulated in images, and poems, debated on the floor of the house of parliament in england. it really placed pressure on napoleon to do something about getting lafayette out. napoleon had no love lost for lafayette. he brokered a deal with lafayette's wife in 1799. napoleon brokered a deal in which he said he can come back but he can't come anywhere near paris. he has to stay at a distance of

some 35 miles around paris. because napoleon did not want to have a rival general around making trouble. for 15 years during the napoleonic era, lafayette really lived a life of tremendous retirement. he created his own farm at his wife's family estate and he really tried to re-create their george washington's mount vernon. he created a farm that was an experiment the form, a place for agricultural improvements. he saw this as what it should to the betterment of french peasantry by helping them to experiment with and learn about new and better ways of growing and harvesting their crops.

so napoleon really was not a f fan. >> just a sidenote i love the kids names, george washington lafayette is one of the kids. another one is named after virginia. >> those of the only two born after the american episode but there's a great quote from benjamin franklin. benjamin franklin live in paris at the same time and they were quite friendly, lafayette and he. benjamin franklin when he heard about lafayette had named a daughter virginia, franklin wrote to him and also got into the papers i think, it was franklin who got them in the papers that he wrote a letter to lafayette same that he hoped that he and mrs. lafayette would have 13 children so they could name one for each of the colonies. but he also said that he did feel sort of sorry for

ms. connecticut. [laughter] would have to go through life with a rather difficult name. >> go back to america, you think america would have lost the revolutionary war without -- >> yes. spin would have lost the american revolution without lafayette. why? >> the americans really, i believe that we won the revolutionary war in large part thanks to french support both naval and ground support from france. and that french support before lafayette, the french government had, in fact, been very quietly sending guns and ammunition and a few engineers here and there to the american side. but france did not want to come out in favor of the americans because they wanted to maintain the appearance of neutrality with great britain. they had just ended the seven

years war, or the french and indian with great britain and the want to maintain and parents of neutrality so they did not at all want to come out publicly in support of the americans. when lafayette left france he did so with quite -- e. made quite a splash when he left france. he made it sort of impossible for the french government to look the other way anymore or to pretend that they were not supporting the american cause. nofa and lafayette forced the french government out into the open with their support of america. that in turn was to the support that led to winning the war. >> just to finish things off, what's your favorite story about lafayette? >> i think my favorite story -- there are so many good ones. i think it's the one involving the dogs. because he was very active.

so during this period of time when he was in active in the french politics, and even a look at after that, he kept in contact with americans. he was constantly exchanging things with americans. he was exchanging animals. he was exchanging plans. he was exchanging innovations and technology and so forth. my favorite but i think that i've ever come across in research was from a baltimore farmer who says, i have just received from the general lafayette for puppies of enormous size from the pyrenees region of france. [laughter] and as a dog lover, i love the image of lafayette with his great pyrenees dogs. so i think that's my favorite. >> thank you so much. there are books for super this is a great book. you must buy it and read it. you will know so much about the

american revolution and the french revolution. thank you, laura. >> thank you, luis. and thank you, everybody. [applause] >> booktv is on twitter and facebook. we want to hear from you. tweet us twitter.com/booktv, or post a comment on our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. >> on the one hand multiculturalism certainly we set the boundaries of civility which i think is a lot of the stuff we were arguing as students in the '80s when we were like the first group of '80s and '90s and was the first group of kids coming on campus is that were a part of in some instances a majority-minority entering class. i was part of the first class that was majority-minority which he knows what majority-minority

means anyway. we at that time were like i don't want to be on campus having to do with all these racial my car aggressions of what they call it now but basic racial incidents. being cold sores on the street, being made to feel like you don't belong. all of the stereotypes of things are happening during the '80s to a recess the boundary of sebelius another language that even reactionaries need to use has to be couched in multicultural terms. pat buchanan has this amazing piece into this book about will america survive 2025? he talks about how everybody can enjoy ethnic foods, right? we all like to go out and have thai food and ethiopian food and that type of thing but let's keep it at that.

and so multiculturalism has recent the boundary of civility but we are at a point where we can't have these conversations about the inequities and the inequalities that persist and that are rising. this is our blind spot, a huge blind spot. the book was trying to get at that. on the one hand, you folks working in the culture to promote these new visions of what the u.s. can look like the but for us to get that to particular what to do with these any qualities. there was a poll that came out after ferguson, into questions were asked, they were interviewing blacks and whites. the first question was does this raise come to the events of ferguson raise issues that ought to be discussed about around race? the second question was, do these events in ferguson draw too much focus and attention to the issue of race? there's a big split.

o.. let us know about book fairs and festivals in your area and we will lead them to our list.

e-mail us at booktv@c-span.org. >> up next, clarence page talks about his collection of chicago tribune columns on race, policy and social changes he has written over the past 30 years. this event was hosted by the whole center at the old naval hospital in washington d.c.. it is an hour and 15 minutes. >> what a pleasure to welcome clarence page. and his new book, "culture warrior: reflections on race, politics and social change" from 1984 to 2014. for questions on race, politics and social change. he is that 1989 pulitzer prize winner and has been a columnist and reporter and member of the editorial board of chicago

tribune since 1984. he has won every honor you may imagine but awards from the national association of newspapers columnists and chicago all of fame. he would like to talk about his book and we will open it to questions and this is being tipped. please come to the microphone to ask a question and in that period, available for sale in the gallery to the left. welcome to hills center and i will turn it over to clarence page. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you. are we ok? okay, great. thank you for that wonderful, lovely and generous introduction. thank you all for coming out on

this lovely washington evening which i thought of is going to have to build an arc to get here. many people ask me how did you get started in this business of journalism and the answer is rather simple. i was 16 years old, i didn't have much of a social life in my high school so for the student newspaper, would give me an excuse to put together two things i have enjoy doing which is writing and talking. and also i found it opened up a lot of new worlds to me by getting to know people. my friend at w a m u shows how deeply i dropped that level of celebrity. he was asked by some students what one does to become a journalist. is answer, let me repeat that

for our home audience, at public radio, how the become a journalist, he said best answer i have for you is two sings, learn to write and have an undying curiosity about people. i have found since that really describes basically what it takes in this business, when one becomes an opinionated like myself which was my early dream, coming from that period of western civilization known as the typewriter era, i wanted to be one who could write my opinion as well as to record. in that sense it took 20 years to become an overnight success. in that amount of time on wasn't exposed to a lot of different worlds. it was something i would never trade for anything else but the longer answer to how i got started was 50 years ago in high

school, several things happened that piqued my curiosity about the world, one was in washington, martin luther king's famous i have a dream speech in the summer of 63 only a few months after police dogs and fire hoses getting sick on people in birmingham simply to try to get the right to vote, not and the month or so later four little girls killed in a church bombing in of ku klux klan bombing which they were putting on their choir robes and were killed in that process and it shocked birmingham, i had relatives there and they say white, black, everybody kind of overnight said you don't bomb of church, there are certain limits to which even terrorism of that era would go. a real change and in november

john f. kennedy was assassinated. how much of the change did that bring about in culture attitudes and it happened the same fall that tv network news for the first time expanded in the evening from 15 minutes to a whole half an hour. is mind-boggling. whole half-hour of news. can you imagine that? before that, the news was 15 minutes followed by a tv program called sports. in both cases the news anchor would have -- it was always a he, with have all little sign in front of him, with the sponsor, usually gillette or another program like that, but that november, that was the first fall where the networks were prepared to have a half-hour of news every night, which means that had more electronic zeros

around the world, visibility according to 24 hours for that weekend so we not only saw the coverage of john f. kennedy's assassination but paul says that sunday on live tv lee harvey oswald's assassination at the dallas police headquarters and two months later something really earth shattering for those of us at that middletown high school, went to a high school in middletown, ohio which you might not all know the place that is also known as the district of john boehner, speaker of the house some and we are both from miami. that is january. a real earthshaking event happened, four long year fellows from england called the beatles were on the eds sullivan show. i would tell people this was an era when we only had tv networks, this generation was so

good at trivial pursuit because we could always in the first verse or the second verse of the theme song, not only lucy and ricky that their next-door neighbors, fred and ethel. we have a common culture that is very strong because there were so few media. all of your information was directed through a few immediate and those of us who went to work in those media had to learn to be generalists, to be able to write and report in a way that could reach people from all different backgrounds and pull them together into a brand mainstream to which we could sell our advertisers. what a lovely world. we are more fragmented society known. fragmented media. on the whole is good because it is providing the consumers with more choices and puts more onus upon the consumers to make choices to be better informed and puts a challenge under those who work in the media to do more

with less. those of you who watch the wire know how that expression can be but it is something we live with these days, we're seeing the impact in the middle east with more free-lance journalist in war zones, journals like the old fashioned media used to do it. and some things that drives those of us who work in the media right through the kind of change we are covering but i am happy to say there are so many bright young people who want to be journalists. us old geezers constantly talk about you should have been in this business when we had teletype machines but we put stories that were rejected on the desk. we still use it. we all deal with change.

i am excited by what is happening. i am excited by how much change since i came along. the woman who introduced me into working for the student newspaper, mrs. mary kindle just passed 100, i called her up and wished her a happy birthday and said don't forget to say and many more. we had a lovely chat. i always remember how she was the one in the eleventh grade who said spy some talents. if you don't like my work you can blame her. in any case, back when i got the pulitzer in '89, it was a real heart warming event for me that occurred because being called by the newspapers, and a high

school yearbook, like many people, i tried to white high school lot of my memory banks. the 30th anniversary class reunion con of all was forgiven because buys and we had high school students of our own we were raising. the year book, i found the student newspaper page at found mrs. kings picture and she had autographed my yearbook years ago. she said remember me when you win your first pulitzer, don't forget. it was stunning. i went to the phone, tracked her down and this is clarence page, i said you know what you wrote in my yearbook? no, i don't. >> i always knew you could do

it. i will be honest, when you said that years ago, i thought -- all the kids on the student paper, you have a future in journalism. that is true, but you are the only one that took me up on it. when your teachers give you advice maybe they're worth listening to for a while. i woke up early this year and it occurred to me that i started writing my column 30 years ago. my second thought was i should put a book together in my column. my third thought was if charles krauthammer can do it so can i. he had his 32 anniversary. i went to the arduous task of coming through -- and once they

write a column. and it is a sobering experience, there are others that could be fascinating because your voice was changing and you did know it. so i've written this column 25 years ago and there is this brilliant and brash young boy, i wonder who wrote this and you realize it was you. what ever happened to that kid. it is a sobering experience. this is what i found in putting this together. i look for seems that would stand out, have either in anything in all that time? is there anything indicative of this era because after all i came along as a columnist in the age of madonna. is not the age of lady gaga. from ronald reagan to barack obama. how about that for change?

and is our job as columnists, pundits, opinion writers, and my spiritual mentor in chicago, every chicago journalists of my era, somebody asked him what did you do as a columnist? my job is to explain things and that is a pretty big job. i find more and more medias that we have, the more information people have every day, every night, 24/7 some more people look to somebody else with an opinion they can bounce their own opinion off of. i feel as the author of media monopoly which is read edited every five years and the size of the monopoly shrinks, he said

the media don't tell you what to sing, they tell you what to think about and that is basically true. there is an agenda setting role the media has. the difference these days is do-it-yourself media. i used to work in tv full time, the full talking head. now a host tv studio in my iphone and the change that is made in the world. and the potential as far as issues like privacy or repressed freedom like everybody's potential journalists. and a role for the columnist and commentator and even in the age of blogs where everybody thinks they can be an opinion writer and everybody can. do we want to keep doing this, our san in the birth of blogging

in his teenage years in 2004. i am going to do a blog. i said that is my boy. and it was a good-looking blonde too and the couple days later he had to do another blog. he has to keep doing it, really. he got through two anyway and then decided he was going to be a rock star and that is okay because that was how i became a journalist. everybody wanted to do something else. my generation was the sputnik era. everybody wanted to be an engineer and i who once when i finish engineering school my business would have fallen down. just as well ahead journals to turn to. i'd feel journalism save not only my life a lot of the people's lives as well. in any case what seemed the wi-fi emerging over the last 30 years? i would say one theme, like his

full of surprises. that is why we call it news. one theme is what i call diversity anxiety. when i came into the business we lived in a country where the social scene was pretty much black and white, no contended. an era in which it was like civil rights and others were pretty much black-and-white. today we have more into a new era of multiracial, multicultural diversity and a new divide. those in navigate comfortably across racial and cultural borders and those who don't. that gets me to why i decided to call my book "culture warrior: reflections on race, politics and social change". show book. there is -- that is not tight vote. but the publisher said it will

make people look twice. yes it does because it is not culture warrior but culture worrier which relates to the diversity anxiety seen. it is a fun thing to do. i talked with pat buchanan about my book and he says how can you call it that? in short i am worried about the culture war that you want to fight. some of you may remember the republican commission of 1992 where had you can and gave his stirring we are in a cultural and religious war speech, which horrified the george h. w. bush supporters who could see moderate voters votes flying out the window even as he spoke, but this was the era of the culture warriors and i find some people

are uncomfortable with diversity. there are others who are remarkably comfortable with it and this is the way the country is moving. at the same time folks need some explaining, some dialogue and this is why we have a certain amount of anxiety and i found one column after another dealing with this issue. seemed number 2. the biggest divide is obama world versus sarah palin nation for lack of better labels. coming from elizabethtown, ohio, i know john boehner's district, home of former congressman, anybody who remembers him, a good republican county where i grew up, i am so old i remember when there were black

republicans. the party of lincoln, the party of eisenhower. we love like so much, i remember being 11 years old, black kids were trying to get into central high school in little rock, arkansas and the national guard was keeping them out. next day we turn on the tube and the national guard are gone. there's the 100 1st airborne, i get the mix that now. i want to give proper credit. they were airborne anyway. there's a were, students into the high school. i turned to my parents and said what happened and my dad says president eisenhower. my young self, i thought president eisenhower was the title of the job. i was really impressed. i said when this president eisenhower dies who's the next

president eisenhower? that is what eisenhower meant to a lot of families. in 1964, i was 16 years old in high school, barry goldwater was against the draft, favored legalizing marijuana and prostitution, what more could a 16-year-old boy ask for. the civil rights act. what is another party called, that was the pivotal change for a lot of people. but i don't both sides of the fence and still find a lot that republicans have to offer that is very positive. unfortunately it gets buried by other republicans did that is part of my job again, to fight for the truth, to look through that political landscape can begin to help it make sense to everybody else. that is why the polarize 1990s of bill clinton and newt gingrich became more divided over the last 20 years and i

have seen politics become more trouble because of the fragmented media, we also now have computerized redistricting and the big sword and the number of other titles because now when you buy your house you by your political affiliation because computers can figure out all of your inclinations and your neighbors and co-workers etc. and it becomes almost a computer game, figuring out what the reasoning of -- voting results a going to be. fortunately the voters, god love you, have a tendency to surprise people once in awhile and i love that. you that eric cantor in virginia, they shaved his district so it would further guarantee his reelection by bringing more republicans down. only they found that too late that the more republicans they brought in happen to be more the

likes of eric cantor and voted for his opponent and election day, sipping coffee at starbucks in d.c.. this was something that happened to democrats as well i need not tell you says this is why i love it when voters surprise us because for all of our computers and priced etc. the voters still have the last word so when i see a surprise like that than i know we are not cuba, we are not iraq under saddam hussein, we are responsive to voters. i tell the folks in ferguson, missouri that, but i digress. when you start talking with people who are pundits, one thought always leads to another thought which leads to a column eventually. in any case i got an example of this new divide today in fact as my readers often give me a great

example. i did a column about the recent polling that showed, the amount of -- the racial divide in america had not improved since barack obama's election according to some polls had gotten worse and frankly i had no illusions about the magic of barack obama's election. to meet the fact he got elected was evidence of racial progress in itself but once he got elected the next day it was a whole new ball game as we have seen. this letter said clarence page, you have written an article which is misleading and inflammatory. this is why fan mail. except for a few die-hards from the 1960s 2 are still outraged things of gotten much better.

the overwhelming number of americans raise plays no part of their lives or thoughts. is not about race that money, education, influence. get a good education, make money, assimilate and things move along. need to quit beating the old drum, nobody is listening leaving our hispanic and asian minorities care about this? this was a fan letter. he wishes me well. a honestly and sincerely believe that. i like letters from people, they raise some thought, not just a lot of invective. i understand where he is coming from. the only thing is 20 years ago i did a book on race, calling for a new dialogue, a new national conversation on race. heard that before? president clinton called for one, george w. bush called for one, recently eric holder called for one.

and said americans are cowards about race. when i say we, eric holder talking about white people. and cowards about writing e-mails to eric holder. i had given up on the national conversation because i found when you hold a conversation the people who need to have a conversation most don't show up because they already know everything. this is how this letter writer is, nice guy but has his mind already made up about black people apparently without talking to any action will black people. not a bad person, just a product of our age. daniel patrick moynihan, a great man i admire tremendously, one of the great benefits of my profession is i got a chance to chat with him a couple times. he took me on a tour of the reagan building over here on pennsylvania avenue with a smirk

bragging about how he always bowed to the wilson foundation folks, did he is going to find them a home on pennsylvania avenue and when the time came that he really had things lined up for the republicans, the newt gingrich congress took over and he said how am i going to get a woodrow wilson center headquarters? we will name after ronald reagan so that is double footnote for you in history. there are certain advantages to it. lovely building it is. in any case, i appreciate daniel patrick moynihan's victim that you are entitled to your opinion, not your own facts. it has been reversed largely by today's digital information marketplace because now you can find your own facts, shop around for what kind of fact you are looking for a particularly

slant. at the same time, there is an oversimplification of the negro. she declared that in 1945 in an interview and said quote that he is depicted by the conservatives as have been picking his banjo or the so-called liberal -- republican too -- as low, miserable and crying. the negro's life is neither of these. it is in between and above and below these pictures. the stereotypes still appear in our news coverage today, not just of african-americans. i think despite the decline in polls that show -- the decline in race relations according to -- i got to phrase this wreck of a decline in the number of people who think race relations have gotten b since obama became president. as few as 8% say it has gotten

better. most save a have stayed the same or gotten worse. despite that decline most white, black and hispanic get along very well more about the same and also this is a specially true in our personal lives. talk to anybody about how you get along with other races in your personal life that they can tell you heartwarming stories of neighbors, co-workers, etc. but the world we present to you in the media which presents all of these folks burning tires in the streets of etc. but this goes back to a bit of wisdom the seigniory white guy told me in my early years in journalism, news is what happens when things are not going the way they are supposed to. when things are going the way they are supposed to, who cares about the thousands of planes the takeoff and land safely every day or thousands of kids who are not joining games of getting struck out on drugs.

our story is the disasters. let's keep this in mind, the world which we bring to you. those of us who work in the media need to keep that in mind as well which brings me to my surprise in fema number 3. bill cosby's culture war. bill cosby as a student journalists in l.a. 60s, 1969, and i interviewed a number of celebrities that came to our campus, everybody had some good sound bites to give you about the war or civil rights or black power movement or was going on, bill cosby, wadded disappointment he was. all he wanted to talk about was kids stay in school. a great opportunity to opening up here, don't blow it, just really, enough, enjoy all the resources you have got, learn from them and i thought he is no fun. he sounds like my grandparents.

! forward 30 years later when i am a parent myself and the funniest thing about bill cosby and all those years. i was not expecting, you constantly hear conservatives say black people reject bill cosby. no they don't. bill cosby express is a voice virtually all of us have heard in our families, very much a part of our community but it is not news when you have african-americans who believe in strong families working hard, staying in school and at the same time there is work to be done and i followed the progress and i have seen him do a lot of good work in spurring grass roots involvement around the country but it doesn't make news because who cares about kids that are succeeding. finally, surprising fema number 4, the most recent quiet but

dramatic cultural quakes i call it. when the earth shakes things change in ways you never expected. many predicted an african-american president for example, same-sex marriage being legally in various states, legalized marijuana. all these things are going to come sunday but not in our lifetimes, children. that is science fiction stuff but all of a sudden in the last decade all kinds of stuff has been happening. maybe the tipping point. in any case it is no wonder my friend pat buchanan and a lot of other people are so upset by what is going on with the culture. william s. buckley, the definition of a conservative streak still bore progress relentlessly yelling halt, progress has a way of not

listening to halt. this is the origin of cultural diversity as i call it. numerous other changes have happened. the tone of my book came about because of an editing a patrick moynihan book in a memorandum in 2003. he said the essential conservative truth is it is culture, not politics, that determines the success of a society. essential conservative truth is that it is culture, not politics, that determines the success of a society, the essential liberal truth is politics can change a culture and save it from itself. i have seen that happen in terms of the civil rights movement when i was in high school debate was going on in washington and conservatives were saying that you can change the law but you can't change people's mind and dr. king said in order to change

thes mines you got to lay the groundwork by changing the law. we saw what has happened. don't know how long it happened but didn't take very long, hard to find anybody who supported the jim crow laws. i found this to be true social the when i was first hired by the chicago tribune and i was part of what i call the right generation. i came out of college in 1969 and it was a time in which we had something like 400 civil disturbances, urban riots across the country between 65, and 69. almost all of the newspapers, radio, tv stations had little or no journalists of color. in those days we were not people of color, we were colored people in negro. 47 negro's for arrested trying to register to vote today and

then we became black. a great transformation. that was -- you got to understand the guy before you now, imagine me with a lot more hair, met in shot sideburns, love beads around my neck. i have a picture on my face book page for memory's sake. i enjoyed bell bottom pants etc.. it is all great fashion items of the time. there was some concern when i was given an offer by the tribune in 1969 and the tribune had hired the first black reporter in the newsroom in 1967. we were founded in 19 -- i am sorry -- 1847. in fact contribute's first major project in those days we have a washington bureau 1855 -- i

hasten to tell everybody -- so in the bill, the chief sponsor, a big founding member of the new party called the republican, he was a big promoter of this, abraham lincoln. after doing a favor for black folks the paper hired the first black reporter for 120 years but why harry? any way? after 122 years clarence page shows up and several editors said we would like to hire that page fellow but he might be a little militant for the tribune. militant was a word when a black person's vote their mind. don't want to say a angry, but militant. i heard this story later that one of the executives said let's

ask joe, a wonderful journalist, was the first black journalist in the newsroom, former chicago cop and that is another story that i have told repeatedly, he used to write his biography, terrific story but in any case it went over and the joke -- this page fellow, have you met him? yes, i met him. we were wondering, thinking of giving him an offer but he may be milled little militant for the tribune and joe with a sweeping gesture looks around the room and says maybe this newsroom could use a few militants. i was tired fennecs day. to with that act of good faith i went to brooks brothers, at then you see the transformation you see today. in any case i knew about culture. i know about assimilation. i know about individuality. i know about political

correctness. i've learned these many things firsthand from my time here in the news business and in the pandit business and over the last few years i have seen our society more and more in need of folks who can help us all make sense of what is going on because it is one thing to be supplied with lots of information and another thing to give an interpretation to it and help people to think about something that might not have brought about before. all right, okay. very quickly, i was thinking about how often ones goes to read something and i was thinking about what would really grabbed me right now and i was going back to june of 1991. i had just moved to washington

and got the news one day that thurgood marshall was about to give his last news conference. it wasn't built that way but we knew it would be the last one because he was about to retire because of ill health and at the same time we knew that waiting in the wings was a young african americans judge named clarence thomas. that was the big story at the time and i had just gotten to the town, the thing about being a reporter is that you got a lot if you are a columnist you make your assignments you can go meet people you always admired from afar, i have always admired thurgood marshall on a number of levels and this man is walking history so i jump in a cab and went over is very and i am the youngest journalist in the room, the city of bright young things in journalism, young folks who come out of j schools and various internships and they are

all up, my buddy henry allen, retired washington post reporter described years ago as the young fogeys of washington. they are so serious and they all told them find out what he thinks about clarence thomas show i am there in the crowd and these reporters were all finding different ways to ask the same question. the best answer came from thurgood marshall first time, he was asked what he thought about the possibility of clarence thomas being appointed to the supreme court and marshall came into the room -- he was moving very slowly, short of breath and set their wheezing as he listened to the questions, when he was asked about clarence thomas, like the dolphins oracle he said old man told me it makes no difference with the you have a white snake or blacksnake,

they both bite. that was his answer. thank you oh great suwannee. that was terrific. that was the way he answered questions all the way around and finally there was a lull and i said mr. justice, how do you want to be remembered? he looked at me across the crowd and -- let me read this to you. that was my be. how do you want to be remembered, i asked thurgood marshall, calling my question over the heads of reporters at his farewell press conference the squinting in my direction the old curmudgeon appeared to be at once amused and irritated as he reflected for a microsecond and muttered in his gravelly voice that he did what he could with what he had. it would make an appropriate epitaph. whether you loved what he did or hated it. marshall -- excuse me, marshall gave and all he had and gave you

to feel neutral about it. those who argue marshall should be replaced by another african-american missed the more important point, justice marshall's value was not his color, it was in his conscience. if the web of justice is a great national safety net marshall was its last remaining anchor. at the end of that sympathize with people too powerless and causes too and popular for politicians to touch the she embodied what oliver wendell holmes was talking about when he said the life of the law has not been -- it has been experienced. he understood the hard luck cases because he had been one of them and often had defended them. marshall brought to the court his experience as one who had suffered as second-class citizen at a time when his skin color can out of most restaurants, hotels and the maryland law school he wanted to attend. graduated at the top of his class in washington's mostly black howard university and

argued more cases before the supreme court than his fellow justices had 32 of which won 29. he was the we sitting justice, who was friend, convict sentenced to death. in new the meaning of rough justice. being the only justice to have found a defense lawyer, one of his clients had been lynched against marshall's train arrived in texas town where the suspect was to be tried. he was accused of liberal activism. if so he leaves behind a court guilty of conservative activism, reversing several court decisions the same week marshall announced his departure, the new court seemed discontent to lead a pass without stripping away another right. this was the court that allowed congress confessions, random warrantless searches and bus passengers, censorship of news day and suzanne victim impact statements to fire up the emotions of juries considering the death penalty. it danger in these decisions was

the line of thinking they may represent, the ronald reagan promised to get in government off thes backs, helping state powers expand by expressing individual rights. the capital review of the intimidating nature of uniformed police asking to search without a warrant shows precious little appreciation for why we have warrants in the first place. the court that justifies or allows impact statements and their commendable regard for the rights of victims or survivors willing to testify shows callous disregard for the rights of victims who for whatever reason do not testify. and apparently little harm in it thing for richmond of sloppy police work. dropping a suspect down a staircase accidentally. marshall's most powerful parting shot came with in what the law into the court for than impact decision on the day of his retirement announcement. power, not reason is the new

currency of this court's decisionmaking. today the decision charts and unmistakable course, cast aside today are those condemned to face society's ultimate penalty, tomorrow's victims may be minorities, women or the indigent. this campaign to resurrect yesterday's spirited defense will squander the authority and legitimacy of this court as protector of the powerless. the ring of his decisions that go through the halls of justice after the man has left. a lonely voice, legal logic with warm flesh and blood of human experience. it doesn't matter whether you are right or left when you are a pundit. just want to know where you stand. this is what i have found. the worst thing you can be is

wishy-washy. where do i stand on this? then be as clear as possible. on the one hand, on the other hand. people bounce off their opinion and ask what your opinion is and the fan mail live like the most if i get a note from somebody who says i almost never agree with what you got to say but appreciate knowing where you stand. i learned early on when somebody sends you a piece of hate mail one week like something they agree with the next week is a love letter. i don't take it personally. that is important. we are public figures dealing with public issues and we have a public responsibility. put that in mind. i thank all of you from the public coming in tonight and i welcome your questions and comments. thank you very much and over

here. thank you. stepped over to the mic. from the mic to him. >> my question is apropos where you ended, how do columnists get picked to right? the show biz side of it, so for example my favorite columnist i love to hate is charles krauthammer. if i start crossing through the words who is right and who's wrong and all of dargument.

i admired george will >> how does an editor judge, the show-biz side of to is in or out? precious inches right there. >> i was 16 when i decided i wanted to be a columnist, to become an overnight success, i attribute that to the late great geniuses cool, we start at the tribune at the same time, and he and robert -- roger ebert were talking to some kids and one

question was it is good to be a movie critic. find an editor willing to give you a column, willing to make you a critic. that is the way columnists speak. you may want to be a columnist. it is a matter of what happened, some people want to be a column, two or three and present that to an editor and i am going to do this all the time. and ohio housewife, this was her title and billing so to speak when she came to newspaper i in turn to, and with some humorous letters to the editor the she was writing and the managing editor of the paper loves her comments, she was just hilarious and after doing some as as for the paper that became a column and she became one of the most

successful columnists in america. i love to do that kind of column. where did she find all that hilarious material. years later i became a parent and i found out. buys and it was the same year i got the pulitzer and we were six or seven months of expectations and i won a pulitzer and said i never thought the pulitzer could be anticlimactic. after i became apparent i found a wealth of material and also found my kid came in and -- you get the mail bag, this touches me. it is important for a columnist, you can be the smartest guy or gal in the world but if you don't connect then forget about it. that is how she got started.

other people, i have a friend -- to make a long story short, a friend of mine got promoted and became head of the editorial board and took me to lunch and said how about you write a column. why don't you mention that. why don't we all get started one way or the other and after i got the pulitzer, you want to be an editorial writer really but i said let me have a column and you got a deal and it worked out and i did both. now i just do the column and also voice what you call them, video bloging. you don't just write a column now, you got to tweak the column, facebook it and do a video blog, but all these things roll up to get there. any way, i am standing here.

>> i really enjoyed your talk tonight and i really enjoy when you are on the sunday morning talk shows especially because you are calm and connected and particulate. >> even before breakfast. seriously, thank you. >> to the other talking heads, i want to know when you started appearing on these shows and what your experiences are like. >> thank you. i always wait to hear the question what is john mclaughlin really like. that is what happened and as i said to john and he appreciated this, inside the grumpy exterior is how grumpy interior. once you crack through that, a heart of gold. i know the guy so much, and

exposing me to not only a large national audience but also by the time my kid was in the fifth grade i got lampooned in that magazine with the rest of the mclaughlin group. does that give you bragging rights in the fifth grade? and my home life. when i started doing tv, very calm. i was an essayist for new news hour. the news hour with everybody. judy woodruff, etc.. it was up wonderful show. let us reason together. this is intellectual television and it was marvelous and they were respected writers. that kid had to go away. tv respecting writers has never happened. at the same time i began the mclaughlin group which i always

said was political discourse. what was great about it was it opened up our exposure to a broader audience and people say how do you keep your temper and demeanor in the middle of that cacophony. i cite the fact used to work in television and one thing i know about broadcasts is a bunch of people talking at once is only one microphone. everybody's flees the microphone at the same time people can hear anybody. you got to learn to work the balances as a producer of mine said. work those quiet moments. either and that doing video essays. to enjoy cbs sunday morning, the nature minute at the end? isn't that wonderful? one of my favorite moments on television. you don't hear anybody talking. just a camera looking at the birds and streams and fish and

you hear nature's sound. some people in television really appreciate sound and that is -- i am too high and mighty about this. there are some gaps when people don't say anything and then jumped in. like woody allen said timing is everything worse something. >> thank you very much. really interesting. i am a numbers guy. >> you are the man. >> scientists. >> we need you. people like me. >> my question is headed, when you look at journalism and you talk about perception and culture and the way that people think and feel often times that doesn't necessarily extend with how things are in terms of economic indicators or poles or

things like that. for example violent crime has been dropping tremendously over the net last 20 or 30 years but people play with their kids in the front yard. i am curious about your view on journalism and the responsibility to report things as they are, as reality is, versus what tends to happen with a lot of opinions and things like that. >> that is right. you brought up something, one of my great pet peeves and challenges in life because page's law of politics is politics is 90% perception. how to come up with 90% by don't know. is a feeling you get after a while that as use a crime rates could be plummeting if people don't feel safe it doesn't matter. on the other hand if they do feel safe it doesn't matter what

the crime rate is. i recently did a couple columns about moms and one dad in the cincinnati there ahead been prosecuted for letting their kids play alone outside. a woman out of florida and another woman down south, this is something, we talk a lot about people when you told them you let your kid go ride the metro by themselves nine or ten years old, do they get suddenly ashen and shocked? those other kinds of people we have in society. there is a woman who let her son ride the new york subway by itself, got so tired, she started an organization, free range children is what she calls that, that is what she calls it, free range kids, those kids were

allowed to play like those of us who remember the 50s used to. as long as you were home before sundown that is all that matters. if you weren't home before sundown, my mother and dad would panic but i was an only child and their 4 gold. this was all perception. because we have crime rate dropping since the 19s. we have superpredators, go back to the early 19s there are lots of stories in the media about this new breed of juvenile delinquents, more violent than ever and there was testimony on

capitol hill about this, john they juljulio came up with the . with a column i wrote, to deal with how he regretted coming up with that term because stock and concluded -- contributed to a national panic and try to nail -- turned out at the same time he missed just fine, crime rate was starting to go down including juvenile superpredators etc. but to give people an impression it means more than all these numbers do. it means something now but there is a new conservative/liberal coalition that i have written about to reduce the incarceration explosion because we of got all these nonviolent

offenders jamming up our prisons and running up state budget so much so that even texas now has taken the lead on finding alternative sentencing and releasing non-violent offenders. .. ever since the crack wars of the 19