first book and it remains my sentimental favorite. >> in your book you mentioned the lady be good, the dirksen senate office building 4, i remember as a child, a new richard bass hard movie, lone survivor and i remember years later finding out that was a true story. was the dirksen senate office building 4. do you know what happened to that airplane? did they just scrap it? >> was not a fifteenth air force airplane, it was -- went down in the north african desert shortly before the fifteenth was established. navigational error, the crew flew hundreds of miles south from the african coast, ran out of fuel, landed in the desert, it was founded in 1958 and was

eventually brought back to the united states for display at an air force museum. >> it is still somewhere in san. >> i imagine it is the air force museum. >> thank you, sir. thank you all very much. for coming. i would like to say i mentioned to you, james has written some wonderful books but alan in many ways is the go to for serious theaters of world war ii but he has a really brilliant book about romania and the value of the romanian oil fields and he writes about hungary, he is everywhere. if you want to broadbased picture of world war ii, however, if you want factual stuff you can hardly do any better so thank you. thank you for coming.

[applause] >> if you like to sign books, you can bring your books up. thank you so much for coming. >> thank you for posting day. >> great job. >> may 24th instead of an std and that is at the wright-patterson museum. >> the first coin. ..

>> wrapping up the lift, we have terry crisp recounting the early history of new orleans in empire of sin. to see other notable books, visit our website at tb.org. >> from the 2015 festival of books in nashville, tennessee, we have a discussion with jack mccall junior editor of "pacific time" and james scott, author of "the war below." this is about one hour.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon. my name is nathan and i made order member here and i want to welcome everyone here with us and those two are festival of books. today we are going to have a session with two authors. the first is jack mccall. he is an attorney from knoxville, tennessee. he received his ba from vanderbilt university and his jd with honors from the university of tennessee. he is a former active-duty

regular army officer serving from second lieutenant to captain in the ordinance corps and he was with the ninth infantry division. after law school he clerked for the honorable elbert mayer, chief judge of the u.s. supreme court's sixth circuit. he is an author of various articles on legal foreign policy and historical topics in his writings have been published in foreign affairs and the quarterly of military history and several log reviews as well. he's the author of a nonfiction book on his father's service as a world war ii marine helping with the pronunciation a sons quest for his wartime life and he served as the editor of that pacific time on target memoirs of a berean artillery officer. currently he is a member of the board of directors at the

supreme court historical society and the veterans memorial association. he has served periodically as an adjunct for a professor of law at the university of tennessee. and he teaches various courses there and he's also a fellow of the bar association. he is married to jennifer and has one child. the second author is james scott who is an award-winning author and former reporter and investigative journalist the charleston, south carolina, post and courier. he's president of the mcclatchy president towards and with name of the journalist of the year award by the press association. he was named as the 2005 young alumnus of the year and from 2006 and 2007 he was a fellow for journalism at harvard. in addition to his new book, is

author of a book that won the 2010 samuel eliot morrison award for excellence in naval literature. "the war below: the story of three submarines that battled japan" was published by time and schuster and he is at work on a fourth book throughout february called the battle for manila. so he lives in charleston with his two children and his wife. so what we will do is he's going to read a portion of his book and then we will move over and have him discuss a brief section of his book and then we will open it up to questions and discussions. we step up to the microphone and we are recording it and it is for television. we want to make sure that your actions are audible and can be heard.

james? >> good afternoon. how is everyone doing today. okay, i would like to say that it's a pleasure and honor to be here today with nick, a fellow writer that i work with and our moderator who actually we went to college together many years ago and more than we want to admit. and i'd also like to say thanks to everyone for coming out today for hosting this, it's truly a wonderful event. i'm going to do a reading and talk about my second book that i did, which is "the war below: the story of three submarines that battled japan." i'm going to do a brief reading to set the tone for what the book is about.

and just so you know the skipper is the gentleman and you will hear his name come up and he's introduced earlier in the chapter. he's a skipper and he lives in charleston and mount pleasant in my neighborhood for a while. so when the book came out we remembered stories of the admiral. and so with that, i will get started. one more detail right off the coast of japan is where it starts and they have encountered their first enemy target and that is where we pick up. the skipper studied this which talks some 3 miles away and the wooden vote proved this with

what he hoped he would find. he often doubled as a patrol bloat and gathering far more than cod and salmon. this includes going hundreds of miles offshore and serve as a defensive fermenter with submarines. he recognized that it didn't warrant this but he decided that they could think it with the gun. officers include many of whom who had just finished breakfast for the first battle. summaries are best suited to attack from a distance firing on the surface at night are protected during the day. the time gunbattles were risky and he will lose the element of surprise with technical advantages. it would also expose the gun

crew to risk damaging blows with serious danger sense operating agri- depths and pressures. it is a worthy target and other sailors climbed below and handed this 34-pound round up the ladder, and petty officer third class patrick cardwell crouched and the skinny 18-year-old listed as a signalman and down the line there was the loader for the deck gun. five years older than him, he had traded this in rural oklahoma for life of a sailor in the fall of 1940. he cut through the waves and

they waited largely in silence for 1200 yards. he felt he anticipated his battle. after all, it was not an armed warship like a destroyer. and humanity deck gun at 8:45 a.m. waves crashed over the bow and bolted onto pettus will which pack a punch, firing 13-pound projectiles for targets up to 8 miles away. it required a team to operate and be used hand wheels to swivel the gun and move it up and down. and it adjusted the scopes accuracy one after the other. he hopped up and a spray

drenched him and the other members of the gun crew. robert worthington slid a projectile and branded into place. they cited the scope and matched the firing title. water splashed and it ran into another round in the gun wrote again and again and then a projectile peppered the waves. [inaudible] they struggle to hear as violently as handle the submarine making it difficult. suddenly they returned the fire and machine gun bullets singe

the hair on the skipper's right ear. and it was right, it was not just a fishing boat. and this includes he felt blood run down his beard and the thunder had broken both of his eardrums and the loader now paced himself with a spray and blood. the failures ripped up an ammunition box and said the shells to the hungry animal trained through the submarine. they struggle to escape as the gun roared almost every 20 seconds and the man could see that the projectile blasted the wooden votes and he noted that this best suited the airplane or warship seeming to blow right through, rollicking waves crashed over side, making it

difficult to find the gun. and they slid toward the edge of the deck. they climbed back up to have another way of moments later. and he would drown in minutes without a life reserve or in the cold and turbulent ocean and his heart pounded and he stopped himself he slid where he he accelerated. he bent over to the torpedo room where he ran along the edge of the deck. still, it peppered him with machine-gun rounds and throughout the attack he tried to escape and turn on the

submarine. and suddenly he realized his case was hopeless as the skipper recalled. he came toward us with machine guns going full blast. and the projectile struck at and sprained the ankle. machine-gun fire to place that does not enter them. he passed shells and the 18-year-old loader bucket and knocked me out, he recalled. and he handed a shell to the next loader in line and the blood splattered and the ammunition crew lied facedown on the wooden deck. blood seeped out for minicam. less than an hour into the first

battle, here it is suffered with a man down. no one had expected this. he and the others jumped down to pick him up and he lowered the pistol by the side where no one can see it. he said it back on the gun or i will shoot all of you. and on his comment was stuck and i found out it wasn't his how much he had been hit in the head. and it pretty much went through and then i will stop there. they ultimately had to bury him with the first casualty during the war.

>> would you like to read a portion of your book were no piece of that? >> i would be glad to. >> i am pleased and honored as you have now heard a reading about what it was like to be in submarine action in early 1942 in the book was written see through the eyes of a rain corps officer and i think if there is one common theme that you will find is that there is absolutely no safe place here. if i had to write my own, i think that i would probably entitle it because really from this when you think about it, even for the united states became directly involved coming look back at the history of the

japanese aggression in china and this includes certain places and pretty much the war was won by the u.s. military says it certainly was one with savagery and there was a lot of harm afflicted on civilians and that happened in some instances american forces and that is the back story of these memoirs. so i will tell you a little bit about the man who wrote these memoirs depend upon it came to be. christopher donna, had he lived had been 102 years old and he passed away a couple of years ago dismissing his hundredth birthday. at the time of pearl harbor he was close to getting his phd in history at stanford. he was also a matter of days

away from giving birth to a child a family man come, about to be a father and so close to having a chance to get a phd. he said that i have to go into the service and i'm going to be green officer. so that includes his early service with had already seen heavy action by the time he joined this in the spring of 1943 and the first thing he joins us then fighting with little-known action within new georgia group which is a solomon island chain somewhat north of the canal and this was critical to the allies.

it used to be used by the japanese to go down to australia so when they invaded in 1942, that was the first major check in terms of stopping the japanese advance towards australia. and the next was once they have lost this, they were in the process of building a on the point and it was equipped with various weapons and other long-range guns with roughly 10 miles below from which they would set up the artillery positions and bombarded so that the japanese could no longer use it and that was all preparatory to an army division winning in new georgia and it was expected to take a few weeks.

so this includes a day that lives in infamy and it was referred to with a handful as black friday, it was july 2, 1943. and we had chris and others in the two of them have been out and they just landed over there to begin the shelling of this point. and we could count around the rounds being fired. he chucked one and at the beach they were adding this already stacked among the palms. they said we can help to move things faster.

and i walked over to this. just as if i asked the driver if he could help move a load of ammo and a gun and i heard the guns of the plane open night and there was more outside of a truck driver. he dived to the ground and others instinctively went along. now the earth began to vibrate and that includes those over the palms of our heads. reform inflated this had died away and we climbed out. and explosions were constantly appearing and from then on this was known as suicide point and

we found a tractor-trailer loaded and headed back with the tractor. and so he badly hit this by the bombing and we reached the position and the trucks would still burning brightly and large craters were spotted in the immediate vicinity's of the gun and powder hung all over. for their vehicles had also been shredded and the trail was a demolished bulldozer and here and there were solid figures were all against the ground. and at first i could see them digging foxholes and i found it

and had entered between the trails of the gun and i could see the number to the trail. i dug a long trench and one that was completed, darkness had come and i spent most of the night and the morning i would have drowned if i would've stretched out. what he finds out the next morning is that he also has lost several men and he ends up having to bury this. he still moved he can barely say the lord's prayer and he has unsavory software because at this point in time the japanese personnel may be snipers. that was the introduction to battle and there were roughly

200 american casualties coming from the ninth green defense battalion and also a significant component with construction engineers in one of the bombers were never seen again. the bulldozer was literally blown to bits. and that was certainly not worth saying. if you think about the fact that he's about 31 years old, he's actually older than most captains and majors who are his commanders and he's an educated man and he has now put down unremitting savagery and he survives and has the telling goes through that campaign and they end up doing us, this, later they go to guam and they

serve from summer to about december 1944 and what happened then is this. he joined the considerable time when the portion of the unit to which he was attacked was sent home and was essentially to mobilize. chris did not have enough lead time yet or not points built up that he was able to go home to america. so basically he was told stay here and won the rest of the unit goes back, stay here and we will find something for you to do and you will get home soon enough. and on december 27, 1944, he finds out that he's not staying home, but he is joining this and that was the invasion of open

now. he had been a basic marine battery officer and basically he was an artillery round. to make sure that they planned range corded men's and then should these various targets. lieutenant colonel sizes up in such a way that he didn't like the cut of it. so when chris gets there he basically says that i don't care about your great battlefield experience, you're with the 11th marine and you are the artillery support and we have been places that you have never been and i don't need a battery or a potential battery commander with the artillery. what i need is a team leader so you can get going with the infantry and you can be an observer.

i've never found exactly what it was but we can say that the lifespan of an observation team wants to use the old expression that we are short. these are men whose jobs were basically to take radios or field telephones and in some instances they were in front of the infantry. the mission is to find enemy target before the infantry goes in on the attack were to come to attack you, start calling them to shut the enemy down or if you're going to go on the attack, support your troops as we make the strike. needless to say you're sitting in a foxhole with binoculars and a map and you have a radio or field telephone, you're going to be one of the first targets that they find. there are not a lot of people with crispy one of them. ns to give you an ideacouple of the fact that i think is correct as he survived as. he also saw a lot of things when

he went to japan which ended up being one that began on easter sunday. he also saw the this was an area that was fairly populated that he had never seen and one of the books you are working on is a battle where a lot of civilians were in numerous civilians casualties. and many of them certainly had inhabitants that there were not large things in population. so now we take you to the afternoon on easter sunday, chris and his people have landed on the western shore and just be on this principle runway we took

a breathing spell and broke into the rations for lunch. a little bit later as we began to move in single aisle through this town, some infantrymen drew forth and he had a scraggly white beard. it was evident that they possessed this and was assured by tall hedges. we saw a number of fighter planes concealed from above by natural forms of camouflage and some planes and transplants have transplant had been hit and others were in excellent conditions. we held up in a narrow valley as it was fired into a health site. and it use military japanese to tell whoever was inside to come forth and surrender. when no one moved out, he opened a with his automatic rifle. there was a woman and her

3-year-old away from within, but only the child was alive, covered with his mother's love. they brought him back and he washed blood off the boy did he cease to cry. he cured until someone could be scared to take it back to the camp at the beach. and so this was easter sunday warfare. it sickened me by the pitiful aspects. still no sign of my men. once again, this is pretty grim. but this is again the introduction in oak and now -- in japan. he wrote this book very shortly after he returned home in 1946, even though he had not seen his wife or his little son. and he said partially because he had to get something off his

chest and he basically said that i have some stuff to do and he went into seclusion for a while and wrote the manuscript, which he never intended to have published until a few years ago. you shared it with his family and he never intended be published in the book. and as you saw a minute ago, oftentimes at the hands of japanese fighters as well. in any event the war continued and it was absolutely hell on earth in the next region will talk about that and i can see

this beyond where they wish to have the brush. and he had not even heard that he was scheduled and this includes the japanese on the ridge. i was just awakening and here was about 6 feet high. only to find it was a young smallish marine. where you headed, i asked. and he asked where the company headquarters were and this was a

marine combat. for him to have been thinking about this shows you how bad the situation was and it was absolutely horrible. and as chris hope to support the marine units and also army units as well he comes across a few days later because it's early may and i will tell you that maybe being in the history department as a history professor, what i say is still very fashionably written. >> side of the fellow 400 yards away from this position. and when they lay this down and a girl who had been 15 or 16 was

on her back with arms outstretched and spread apart. she had been shot through the left breast and violently raped area and frankly i think that he wrote this memoir probably to get things down in a contemporary basis or if it is a part of me and i can never prove it, that he really did like this as a way to help them get out of the soul and system and they've finally realized that the body that they had been handling is actually an american.

and so the fact that i've gotten to meet chris several times in his life, man that went on to become a college professor and he helped to find school in philadelphia in a school in philadelphia, it is very interesting and i think it's amazing that he's given this and he's had the great frequency and he really has survived and barely made it to 100. his experience is not alone and with that, i will pass it back over to have them share with you the heart of the submarine campaign. >> yes. what i wanted to know, can you

tell me how it comes about and what led you to write this book. i know your first book there is a family connection there. your father was on this band was the damage control officer. but the story that you found on her own, i know part of getting a book is what is going to be different, what new story are you going to tell and what are the three submarines? >> i was looking at this and what fascinated me is that it was an economic war. how can you work through the enemy. the united states fortunately, very efficiently uses times between world war i and world war ii to really prepare for this type of a war. the japanese have a saying that if you live in glass houses,

don't throw stones. if you're an island nation, don't start a war. world war i is a perfect example of that in great britain, which they have for the british. the united states when the smoke was settling from world war i already counted this in the pacific as it was going to develop into the next big order. they use that to design the perfect weapon, which was the submarine, which was the photo is used predominantly throughout world war ii. and they realize the types of submarines that they use during world war i were simply inferior and we brought back the german u-boats and we're trying to figure out why they have been better than ours. they had thicker halls and were

better. our engineers began to build that. and knowing that the way they were working with the rice to militarism and thanks for these extra men and they could carry up these food and accessories and supplies up to 90 days. there's no wal-mart at cebit you could pull into. and you have to be into a completely self-sufficient individual. and so they had to design the perfect vote that they came up with for the start of the war,

it's about 312 feet long and it's only 27 feet wide. it's about 300 feet and they need to go deeper. if kerry did say, they had to rely on incredible creativity for everything. and you're not going to carry soft drinks or 2 liters of coca-cola, but you're going to see it yourselves. it takes up space, they desalinated their own water. and i will say that this was frequently one of the most important people on board because he had a lot of goods. one of the guys that i interviewed says that one of the biggest problems that they had was that inevitably you will get it peebles in your flower and

you couldn't do this and you would throw in seed and you wouldn't know the difference. and this was an amazing creativity. living conditions were incredible and one of the big factors that played a role is that so many of these had grown up in the great depression and they have had an incredibly austere childhood. so even these situations where the bunks are separated by 18 inches. someone is on duty, someone is sleeping. it was an upgrade to three mails a day, and that was really an upgrade. so not only did they design the slow but they also began to look at the strategy because up until that point they really look that summary ends is almost a

second-class service within the navy. in the protected the panama canal and the whatnot. but they said that the boat is designed as a killer parrot what else can we do but go into the enemy harbor and destroy the ship's? to be reformulated was the strategy. so all of this builds up to when the war starts and the warfare is all about destroying the japanese economy. the world war ii pacific, battles that were over and decided within a matter of minutes, it was one that was.com convoy by convoy. why the end they had destroyed the economy largely with with

the ability to import oil from the netherlands and they learned about these aircraft carriers and these, cause the fighters because they didn't have enough going on. they were eating acorns and starving to death and that is what fascinated me. if you look at what submarine warfare is, it's what is the undercurrent of it all, economics. i was looking at three boats that had experiences. i decided that all of them were some of the most interesting ones of the war. those three, the aggregate of those three, it's the equivalent

of seven aircraft carriers and they were very successful and i also have very different experiences. and there were about nine survivors that ended up in pow camps. they had an appendectomy on board, battles, they also had an attack at one point and there were 1800 individuals lost off of the philippines as well. so you're trying to tell the bigger picture of the war in the pacific. i wanted to be able to put you on the vote and sense what it was like to be one of those sailors and in order to do that we needed to interview the crew's and i could take the readers and really give you that firsthand experience of it was possible. >> we have about 20 minutes and i want to make sure that we have time for questions.

so if anyone would like to ask or offer a question, please go ahead and step up to the microphone. as we get to those as folks want to do that, we will call upon you. and another question that i had is when you do research for these types of books, do you spend most of your time in archives? ores most of the work done from oral history ciardi collected or folks that you just have to find a map. >> i will start off and then pass it over tonight because we were talking about this earlier. i compare it to a historical scavenger hunt. the reality is that the record-keeping was pretty amazing and it was roughly a 30 page document that they tracked when they fired a torpedo. someone counted that in a

torpedo hit. he recorded what was going on and attract down surviving sailors that were alive, emily members of folks who had passed away. but a lot of it is, as i said, it is a scavenger hunt. one of the officers became a prominent figure and he died about the time i was born and i found an obituary for him and he said he had a son that died in 1976 and he lived in hawaii after the war. i called his son and i said, i know your father has been deceased. but i'm doing a book and it's focusing on his summary. by any chance did he leave

behind a diary or any letters? >> he said it's funny that you call because my mom died about a year ago. before she died she gave me a box and it had all my dad's wartime letters in it. she said hang on to it, and if somebody's going to want these. so about a month later, 311 pages of these letters showed up at my house and there were so many that i had to put them in order and keep my kids from knocking them over. he was on board for night patrols and he met his wife and they were engaged and then married and he wrote her every day and it was a diary of life on board. he talked about the pranks that they played and the music that they played and what life was

like. that is the kind of stuff that you're looking for and that's stuff that humanizes these stories. >> were taking a segway and i have to more about this. it's half the fun, doing this putting up the pieces of the puzzle together. and in the case of this book, obviously chris left me with a manuscript. working with the national archives, with the marine corps historical section, both of which are invaluable and provided me with photographs to supplement the ones i got from the family. in terms of original research and by the way my father was an enlisted man and chris was one of the officers, that was really a jigsaw puzzle that involved taking stories that might father had shared with me and my sister over the years and also taking the history of the time of late

1997 and it had a pretty large reunion of 250 members and i was able to make contact with a lot of them and they would supplement other things and from the national archives i was able to find records and duty logs and what they would have basically with action reports to the you could still find lots of copies of those even though some of the personnel records were lost two major fire. so being able to interview the veterans, good oral history was an icing on the cake and had i not done the research about my father's life experience, i never would have met them. in the process of doing the research i think it was 98 or early 99, several marines have talked about the professor that says you need to make contact

and you're committed to this research and of course that piqued my interest. so ultimately what i may contract with them, he gave me some wonderful comments and he actually encouraged me to take it from an original idea which is something that i would put in the archives to memorialize my father. and he said you need to keep working and turn it into a book. had i not gone that done that manuscript from chris, this would not exist today. so for all kinds of reasons i think that i am grateful for him not just helping me but learning throughout my father went through as well. for anyone who wants to learn more about the history of your family members, i've learned that ancestry.com has become a remarkable resource tool and that they now have added a lot of military documents as well and i serve on the board of the east tennessee veterans memorial

association and includes using a couple of freelance resources and one of the resources that we actually use his ancestry, and they have done a good job. >> questions from the audience? >> did one bunk served two or three sailors? >> it was frequently to. and one of my favorites is a lot of the men actually slept inside the rooms and they had caught that were between these 3200-pound weapons and they actually had two in the front of the put side by side that they call the bridal suite. [laughter] and there are two unfortunate guys that got that.

>> any significant difference in studies with post traumatic stress disorder and where you are in a constant battle situation and the submarine where there's a large amount of downtime where you're not actually under fire? >> i'm not really looked at poster mattock stress disorder from this perspective. although they did as most will tell you, it's a lot of organ interspersed with moments of terror. because when they were attacked like that it's an all or nothing situation and only a handful of sailors was able to make it after the vote was hit. a lot of fear for those men. if you really look at the

submarine service, it was one of the most dangerous parts of the military and one out of every five was essentially lost. they're about 50,000 folks who served and many of those were lost and they had a really high risk. >> gentlemen, thank you. this is one of the best programs i have heard. you expect to be surprised by the quality of the books that you encounter and learn about. but to have the authors themselves have such good recall for their work is a great combination and i congratulate you. >> go ahead. it's one for each of you and i was impressed with both sets of stories although i have to say that i'm a little disappointed.

you didn't tell us about what happened to it and you're going to make me buy the book. >> absolutely. [laughter] and this is a technical question for you and a geopolitical one for jack. i'm aware of this but we had a problem with torpedoes and it should've been handled by sinking the japanese carriers and they were all fueling on deck and so that was great fortuity. why did we have such trouble with making it work? >> that's actually been the subject of the entire dissertations. it was so rampant with the navy. it was a very complex weapon and that is one of the things that

is sort of like an underwater rocket. it's like a submarine. it cost about $10,000 each, which in today's money would be the equivalent of $280,000 apiece. and so they were very sophisticated and actually ran with alcohol as a fuel source that the navy realized putting this on board, that idea makes it so you don't want to drink it, but never underestimate an american sailor. they figured if you took an old loaf of stale bread and poured the alcohol through it, it would strain out the alcohol and leave you with a drinkable alcohol solution. if you mixed it with pineapple juice and what not that it would be drinkable and they called it torpedo juice. however it was so potent that when you drink it out of wax a

wax cup you had to drink it quickly because it would eat the wax seal out of the bottom. so these are very complex weapons and early in the war they were very moralize. and they kept saying that we have a bunch of bad shots and that's when doc and forth along time. fortunately and they would send out the convoys until it was planted protect them. and this was due to a faulty weapon. it's like an aircraft carrier without planes. so eventually took about 18 months to sort of figure out a

jury rigged solution. but it took having a gentleman having the architect trusting his people over this ordinance and running some tests in australia where they strung fishing nets together to realize that the weapon was running too deep. and there's no doubt about it that's one of the biggest scandals of the navy and world war ii. >> one thing i will add to that is a many insane. he really are what this effective magnetic system yet the japanese have a torpedo that was the absolute terror. and really when you compare that, you really do realize what time it was.

>> yes, this goes to the legendary attention between the approach to the pacific war and the army approach. personified as well. where is the navy said no, we just need a little islands. so was okinawa kind of a capitulation and was that a battle that we needed to have? >> i think unlike some battles is something that never should have occurred. look at some of the other actions leading up to that with the latter stages with u.s. forces occurred, some of them were absolutely necessary and there were a couple of towels as

well. one of the other historians might take exception to this, but i think that okinawa was a required battle at that point in time. it was essentially piercing the first part of the japanese homeland in the japanese considered it as such. they're in mind and we had bases in qualm and also iwo jima. as we did to finally did and japan, it was not just carrier planes but other types of fighter planes that had to be getting into range withdraw tanks and other things like that. the one thing that kind of comes from this is -- and there have been lots written about it, one is a book that has been out for 15 years and the horrors of what he and his fellow marines and army troops dead and the navy, the hype of the, cause the

attacks, i mean, stories like that continue to amaze is it still continues to fail, taking all that together with casualties and of course there are people who will say that to the extent that there were any lingering doubts, who knew that there were. but in the eyes of the leadership, particularly harry truman, once he learned that a general is working on this device in july 1945 in a place in new mexico, and people tell him it's a weapon when he has planners saying that the casualty for the invasion, the next step after okinawa, in fall of 1945, is to be the hundreds of thousands dead. we can look back and think about the horrors of the nuclear age and nuclear weaponry. one thing is that he felt that a

lot of the evidence concluded to that was the right thing to do. but that is a response to what happened with the casualties and the hoarders and if you go back to your rest and come i think it was the first stage, if we didn't have that, there was no way that we couldn't have gone to the issue and done what we plan on doing in fall of 19 week i. >> we have reached the end of the time and the authors will be in the colonnade in the next couple of minutes. hopefully can get a copy of their books and please join me in thanking them. ..