>> you are watching booktv, television for serious readers. you can watch any program you see online at booktv.org. >> richard brookhiser come senior editor of "national review" recounts abraham lincoln's affinity for the founding fathers. this program from the new york historical society in new york city last about one hour. >> we ought to be thrilled to welcome back richard brookhiser to the new york historical society. as you know he is renowned historian author, senior editor of "national review" as well as a columnist for american history. in 2004 he served as historian and curator for our really spectacular and important and

pathbreaking for the institution on alexander hamilton, american made modern america. we also want to recognize his receipt of the national humanities medal to keep of course has written numerous books on revolutionary america including biographies on george washington, alexander hamilton and james madison. his most recent book which was released just last week is "founder's son: a life of abraham lincoln" and it is already getting wonderful reviews. as always i would like to ask before invite richard brookhiser to the stage you make sure anything that makes noise like a cell phone is off. and now please join me in welcoming richard brookhiser to the stage. [applause] >> thank you for that -- i am being adjusted.

they didn't need this stuff in the 19th century. they also did need to tell people to be quiet because they would be. it's always a pleasure and an honor to be at the historical society. i just want to thank a few people who are in the room. my publicist from basic, kathy nelson, basic books has had a terrific job with this book. it's handsome. they are really publishing it well. i couldn't be happier. roger herzog, i will interest him again, he has done so much for history in this city and the particularly was very generous supporting the publicity of this book. very grateful. do letterman whom i've known since 1982 gave me a crucial early advice when i was trying to find my way through the land of lincoln. there'vthey are than 15,000 boos published on lincoln. i guess the 15,001.

so one does it help and lou was very generous with us. and also my friend and agent for 20 years, michael carlisle. this is our 10th book together. we started with washington, now we're with lincoln. andrew johnson is next. we will try to do better than that. abraham lincoln was preoccupied with the founding fathers. from 1854 when the missouri compromise was repealed and he was roused as he put it, as he had never been before, all the way through out the maddox and the end of the civil war and his life. -- appomattox. is most famous expression, his devotion to the founders was in 1863 in the gettysburg address, which he began with four score

and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty. but three years before that at another great speech here in new york, cooper union, februar february 1860, he kicked off his presidential campaign. it referred to the founders again as our fathers marked slavery, so let it be again marked as an evil not to be extended. let us speak as they spoke an act as they acted upon it. six years before that in the speech that kicked off his mature political career in peoria in october 1854. again he references the founding fathers. let us turn and wash of white in the spirit of the revolution.

let us return slavery to the position our fathers gave it. these examples can be multiplied dozens of times. lincoln looks to the founding fathers for inspiration. he looks to them for guidance, and he uses them to persuade them lead his fellow americans. tonight i want to briefly look at where that interest came from, how it arose, what the founding fathers gave him. what he looked for from them. the three most important ones to him throughout his life were george washington, thomas paine, thomas jefferson. but also want to touch on to other fathers, lincoln's own actual father, thomas lincoln come and then finally towards the end of his life god the father. i think some of lincoln's

interest in the founding father arises from his dissatisfaction with his own father. and some of his turn toward god the father at the end of his life is because even the founding fathers will be no longer quite enough for him. so to begin with thomas lincoln, he was born in virginia 1778. he moved to kentucky. there he had his family, a daughter sarah, signed abraham come and a little boy thomas who only lived for three days. thomas lincoln was subsistence farmer and a carpenter all his life. there was a fashion in the mid-20th century to depict him as an almost snopes in na'er-do-well. but i think historians and biographers have revised that.

thomas lincoln never went broke. he never left bad debt. he had some problem with land titles in kentucky, but everybody did, serving in the state was just a nightmare. that's one of the reasons to lincoln's move to indiana and then to illinois. thomas lincoln was on several juries which was a sign of respectability. he was also a trustee of a baptist church that he and his wife belong to. the he sent his children to one room schools on several occasions. this wasn't for a long time. if you add up all the time abraham lincoln spent in school, it adds up to a year. but his father did send him, he wanted them to learn how to read, to write, and how did you simple mathematics up to a level

of cross multiplication. these were useful skills and he wants his son to have them. but father and son never truly got along. they were not alike. they inhabited different worlds. thomas lincoln wanted his son to read but he could not understand abraham's passion for reading. for abraham lincoln, reading was both an escape and also an explanation of the world. it was a way to have an alternative life and to understand better the life you are living. this was something that was just beyond thomas lincoln scalped. when lincoln was running for president, he wrote a campaign autobiography and in it he said that his father never learned more than two totally write his own name.

there was a lot of scorn and that word bungling. i learned how to write. you could have learned to write if you wanted to but you never did. i think that's the simple of the distance between father and son. there were some things that abraham did get from his father. his father was strong, and so was abraham. in the frontier conditions in which they live, this was very useful. it meant he wouldn't be bullied. when he moved into a new place and were hazed by the locals, have to do a challenge match with the local tough guy, you could be 10 or you can hold your own. this happened both to thomas and to abraham. so that was one important. and other was thomas lincoln was tempered. he was not a drinker. iin our in 19th century america this is almost unheard of. this was a country of

alcoholics. the consumption of liquor that ordinary people performed is simply astonishing. neither thomas nor his son abraham drank. may be the most important assemblage is a thomas lincoln was a great storyteller. two of abraham's cousins who lived with lincoln's, dennis and john, both testified to this, and john hanks said thomas was as good a storyteller as abraham. dennis said he was better. ..

he visits his father's grave and he notes that there is no sewn on it, no monument. he says he will have to range for one should be put up. he never did. so that was the relationship between this father and the son. nonetheless ever gets everything we everything we want from our parent. it's not possible. that i specially when there is a great gap between our expectations and what they give us, then we look for substitutes. with the first circuit. for a jam band early 19th century america, they can be a substitute founding fathers, the

men of the generation just passed to one the revolution who it the constitution. many of these men were still active when lincoln was a little boy growing up. thomas jefferson had one once in the white house after abraham was born. he was followed by eight years of james madison u.s. pilot 88 years of james monroe, the last founder president. but by the time abraham lincoln is in his 20s in the 1830s, the very last of the founding fathers are dying off. not of them ever went to indiana or illinois. lincoln never went to the places where they lived. so the only way he could encounter them within votes. the first founder he encountered them in the first and poured under he encountered in the book was church washington and he met

him in person wings life of george washington. this is one of the first biographies of washington that was published. weems do washington vary slightly. he boasted he was the person of mount vernon parish and there is no such bearish and williams is not direct to run it. he claimed that connection and u.s. itinerary put dealer as well as the clergymen any realize the biography of washington would be a good seller. winds comes out with the biography in 1800. he makes some changes to it. the 18 away version that abraham lincoln would read. and weems biography is still in print. you can still buy it on amazon. and we still remember stories from it. the sentences are not good, but

the paragraphs are great and the stories are terrific and the proof is we still remember some of them. the most famous one is young george in the cherry tree. his father gives him a hatchet. the little boy swings it around and accidentally chops the bark of a price cherry tree. the father asks george had this happen, who did this and george said i can't tell you. you know i can't tell a lie. i did it. and it is father thinks him for being honest. so story told, lesson learned. but that is not what impressed abraham lincoln about the life of washington. we know this because lincoln said voted best him. in 1861, when he was on his way to his first maturation, he left springfield, illinois by train. he traveled through seven states on his way to washington and he

made appearances in six of them. here are showing the flag of the country was falling apart. in february, he came to try and come in new jersey and he addressed the new jersey state senate. and there he talked about the life of washington and the battle of trenton. and that is what has most impressed him in the book. he said poorly even though i was, i suspect that there must have been something more important needs in more independent than it does stand up for come as something of value to all men in all times and places. and what lincoln meant a hapless liberty and he's trying to parallel between the resolution in 1776 and the troubles he fears he is about to face in 1861-yard if you go back and

read, and read, you see that it's exactly the last thing that we distrust from the battle of trenton. he has struck by descriptions of the crossing of the delaware. he gives a lot of pages to the hessians. he depicts famous comic marauders would have been almost 5 billion accents. but then when they are captured, they are pitiable prisoners in the american street the wall so they change size. there's a lot of event and bustle and local color. but the most important moment is faster the american army, washington and his troops and you still have to match still have to match if you master trenton. he introduces an allegorical figure, which is hovering over their life and this is the figure of liberty. she's been driven from his home in europe. america is your last refuge.

but our enemies have followed her with soldiers in the armies. who will defend her? omit this ragged band of men. he is presenting the battle of trenton is a struggle for liberty in the world and the wind dedicates to washington before the battle begins is all i ask of you madness that you remember what you were about to fight for. 1861, abraham lincoln remembered and he told the new jersey state senate, you know how to prescience that are made on us when we are poised to quit us throughout our lives. sorry, it was an all-male senate method that is who he was addressing. so george washington for link in was not a good boy. he was a great man and a great man because he was a champion of liberty. the second time in other lincoln

cahners is in his 20s. this is thomas paine. paine was the great journalists of the american revolution. i would say one of the greatest journalists who ever lived. common sense versus great polemic in favor of american independence. the american crisis, which he wrote on the eve of the battle of trenton has the greatest paragraph i would say at the redmond journalism. these are the times she try solo spirit on it goes. lincoln rattled those works. they were reprinted in print. you assume the appearance boat, the agent for each reason, which was his ferocious attack. britain and france, he had gone over there for the french revolution, then thrown in raising and while he was in jail he began the age of reasoning. he is not an atheist. he said i he said they believe

he said they believe in what god did no more. but he argues all religions are false, set up to terrify and enslave men. he makes the cracks of islam and more judaism, but most of his fire is for a cushy entity. he writes the sort of the ipo for the anti-ideal book for a fire pole reading public. this technique is to take the bible to look for any inconsistency, and a contradiction, and a seeming inconsistency for contradiction and make relentless fun of it. so lincoln reads this book and like many 20-year-olds, he thinks this is great. this explains everything. jesus was a. he was an illegitimate child. who could believe in the virgin birth? the accounts of the crucifixion all agree with each other, on

and on and on. link it was so impressed with this comment is his story when he was supposed eyster in its early 20th, this is one of the jobs he held when he was trying to figure out what he was going to do as i posted to pick up a little money and postmasters in those days did not work at the post office. they kept a testing someone's store and that is where they sorted out the mail. that is where they've had everybody else's newspapers. so lincoln is at his desk telling all his pals about his new religious views and he says i've written a pamphlet myself and this is going to show she says was illegitimate and the other test for religious belief should be reason. the owner of the store, an older man named samuel hill took the manuscript and he put it in the stove. because lincoln was third interested in politics and

mr. hill do that attacking christianity was not the way to win votes in illinois in the early 1830s. so lincoln learned over the next few years to be discreet about his views and over time, they would change. it's hard to track it because he became very closed mouthed about a lot of his opinions. but one thing he learned lifelong was how to use humor to win serious arguments. whether you agree with that or disagree with them or not, you have to admit that heinous brilliant at making serious points humorously. his attack on the virgin birth is that if any girl now were to say that he was made pregnant by a ghost and angel told her so,

even if she swear to it, would she be believed? there are lots of ways to think about the virgin birth, but this is a very progressive way. it takes it very but really, very commonsensical a bandit for symptomatic glow. that is the argument went like it came to master it, he would use again and again. here are the new how to be funny. he learned that from his father. but this is using humor to make a serious point and one of lincoln's jokes he told over and over again what democrats would accuse him and other republicans have been race mixers because if you want to limit slavery, you must like black people and therefore you must want to sleep with them. so like you would say just because they don't want to plot woman for a slave doesn't mean i have to have her for a wife. i can leave her alone.

sometimes he would elaborate on this. always got a laugh you did it make a serious point because if you are the feed her abode, or a abode, or a loss of feed her to be free? so he is amusing as audience, but he's also getting them tuesday. i think that is something he retained from his youthful counter what time is paid. the third founding father who influenced him and this influence begins to show itself in the 1850s as thomas jefferson. and that's the jefferson of the declaration of independence. jefferson had a very long life. there were a lot of hesitation and second thoughts and retreats from some of his earlier opinion as he aged. but it was not at jefferson that

link and info. that is the jefferson who wrote the declaration of independence in 1776 and lincoln would use this over and over as an expression of his principles and that the republican party's principles and of the principles that should guide americans as they confronted the question of slavery's expansion. in 1854, he called the declaration of independence fish eating curragh of american republicanism. a sheet anchor is the toughest anchor a sure path. that is but a ship is down in the storm. the storm was beginning. so lincoln called for declaration are sheet anchor. any team 59, he said the declaration gave the axioms and

definitions of a free society. this was in response to an invitation to come to boston to celebrate jefferson's birth date. link and couldn't go, but he sent a letter he had clearly labored over and the recipient to jefferson. he sat on her to jefferson knew had the coolness and the forecast to insert into a merely revolutionary document a principle which should be valid for all times and all ages. and then of course his final -- his final bringing up this time is what i started with, the gettysburg address where he looks back for a score and seven years ago to the declaration. and he says that this is the proposition to which this country is dedicated. now, the gettysburg address and the other speeches that day were

giving to dedicate a cemetery. and there are a lot of cemeteries filled during the civil war. lincoln was not a warrior president. he had served in the black hawk war, which was an indian war when he was a god man. he didn't see any action, but he did see some men had been scalped. he knew his own grandfather, abraham lincoln, also abraham lincoln had been saved from an indian attack would have as a little boy. an indian had shot and killed abraham lincoln and his son thomas, lincoln's father was saved by a brother who shot the cnn rescued him from the field for this violent encounter had happened. and also in lincoln's life, he lost a mother, sister and a

sweetheart to diseases. these are common losses in early 19th century america. at the civil war beside comment. even a man who's not announce itself could not the insulated from it. homer also worth was one of lincoln's law students. he accompanied on the train trip to his first evacuation and all sorts in the army was killed and the union to take the city of alexandria firm rivals and 1861. and the end, edward baker was old friend of lincoln from illinois politics. lincoln had named one of his sons after him. lincoln was described at the funeral as we've been like a

child. also in 1861, a man named william mccullough asked for his help to get in illinois that you meant. mcculloch had an eight-quart on on -- a court clerk. the reason he needed to help us to a 60 years old and had lost an arm in a farming accident. the link in intervene for him. he became a colonel and 1862 rescaled in the run-up of vicksburg. lincoln also saw a lot of wounded. the laporte sue was a reporter and a one point band came back to washington to cover the sacramento union. he had many visits to hospitals the president made with the first lady. on one of these visits, they

were going down the line and ahead of them as a charitable woman who was handing out literature for the wounded soldiers. one man takes a pamphlet that she has had and she looks at it and sets it down laughing. lincoln number ask said that one then she met while i was not nice to laugh at her. my legs have been shot off. the joke was on the president. and also on the plate glass soldier. he sees them as if he makes commander-in-chief of course he's getting all of the casualty reports all funneled to him.

and it's horror after horror. the battle of gettysburg is two years into the war but the length of the mexican war in the war of 1812. the other wars of the night teen century. we talk of it now as a turning point in the war and certainly lincoln hoped it was, but still the war went on. and the problem for linking, the particular problem for link and was related to his logic. he had a very logical cast to his mind. he was also a determined as. the baptist church that his family belonged to believe to predestination and linking, you know, he left the church, but he kept the police. he kept that belief. one of the phrases he had was the motive was born before the man. so even before you were born, the motives of their actions are

determined because every act has a cause and not cause also had a cause and so on back and back. so everybody is cast into a web of determination. by the civil war you are trapped in such a web. so lincoln thinks to himself and he makes an out of his any tax about eight with a couple of people. he thinks to himself, god woos the world. remember he was never an atheist. he always believed in god and so did linking. but god woos the world. god woos everything and yet the war have been in the work in 10 years. i could've stopped it from happening. he could've stopped it at any moment, yet it still goes on. besides pray to him. they both can't be answered. maybe neither side has been answered. what does god want and

continuing this war? lincoln pieces head against this problem for years. and then his solution for his best attempt at a solution is revealed in his second in a row address in march of 1865. the war is not over yet come up but it looks as if it is sending. and here is what he tells americans in this state paper. if we shall suppose that american slavery is one of those offenses, which in the providence of god by scone, but which having continued through his appointed time, he now wills to remote and it gives to both north and south this terrible war as the woe due to those by

whom the offense came. show we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes, which believers than living god always ascribe to him. if god wills that it continue until all the wealth by the 250 years of unrequited toil shall be sunk and every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword as the set 3000 years ago, so still it must be said that judgments of the lord are true and righteous altogether. this is a very punitive father. more punitive than thomas lincoln otherwise. he will also notice that the founding fathers had disappeared from the speech. the gettysburg address headset for a score and seven years ago,

going back to 1776. for the second now grosses 250 years of unrecorded toil. 1865 minus 250 takes you back to jamestown, which was the first american colony, the first colony to accept slaves from africa. so the founding fathers had become internationalist point in 250 years of experience with slavery. because of that, william macola and all the house where it advert taker and the young man whose legs with a one-off and so many other people who never owned a slave, most of the southern soldiers did not own slaves or never saw a slave had not a lot of slaves in wisconsin. but they have to die by thousands. you can see in the speech how far lincoln has traveled from pain. pain was revolted by the notion that god would accept the

sacrifice of his son as the payment for sins. the link and is saying that god requires the death of the americans to pay for the national slavery. but that is not for the second and not girls have been. it's the last paragraph, the last sentence. with most torrid nine, the charity for, with firmness in the right as god gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are and, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall join the battle and for his widow and his or her fan to do wall, which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations. and when i came to write about that, i noticed that all those

verbs in all of those verbal phrases are two syllable verbs. strive on. finish. care for, it do all, achieve, cherish. and i thought, it is like walking. it is as simple as walking. it is as hard as walking after you bought so long and there so far so to go. this is what link you gave to america a month before he died. this is what he gives us now. strive on, do wall, achieve. thanks very much. i'll take your questions. [applause] now, you should know that to ask a question, their question,

they're a microphone denials. so, to a microphone, state your name and remember, please only ask one question and no speeches with rising inflections. you know, a few brief that douglas debates, audiences were murdered then. they shout stuff out. they say hit him again or that is the top traynor sometimes stephen douglas supporters would say white men, white man, he is a disgrace to white people. but we have to be a little more polite than that. which side you are but a start on? you, sir. >> i am jim kucinich. i am a dose interior. lincoln got his hatred of slavery from his father and as you mentioned, other inspirations from jefferson and washington. how did he coincide his hatred of slavery with their belief of

slavery? >> well, sort may his father may be a source of the. that is probably one of the reasons he left kentucky. the two reasons are troubled with land titles because survey and was just a mask. they were conflicting surveys than thomas lincoln had had to go to court because of rival claims. he wanted to get to the old northwest territory because the federal government has surveyed that it guaranteed the surveys. also, there is also the possibility that he didn't want to compete with farmers who had slaves. he was a small farmer. these are bigger farmers. who needs that? that was an incentive for him to leave. i notice that in one of lincoln's books, one of his primers called the kentucky primer, one of the questions

that the kids were given is who has more cause to complain? the india nor the slave? this is a book written in 1790 and it's a kind of academic exercise for school kids. but there was. and then of course, lincoln took two trips to new orleans. the only place in the deep south he ever went when he was an older teenager and people have speculated, what did he see their? i mean, new orleans is lots of black people, free black people, slaves, slave markets, slaves being sold, slaves inspected. how is the body on that young. some people would be thrilled by that. we have some accounts that lincoln was appalled. but there are problems with those accounts. one is third hand and another is that one of his cousins suited

get to new orleans. he stopped in st. louis, so lincoln might told in this later, but he didn't see it firsthand. so what the founding fathers, those who were slave owners, who include washington and jefferson, lincoln always said that they found slavery existing in the country in which they were born. the policy that they wish to follow was what we would now call containment. that is my word. that was that lincoln's words. they said it cut off the expansion in one direction by forbidding the northwest territory and they cut off its supply by stipulating in the constitution that the slave trade could be ended in 1808 and indeed it was. he also made the point that

although the constitution gives guarantees to slavery, it says that fugitive slaves should be returned to their owners who come to seek them and they count slaves and the apportionment of the house of representatives. but it never uses the word slave or slaves or slavery and lincoln would've fred madison's notes on the constitutional convention because they were published in 1840 and there is a set of them in the springfield state library in springfield and they are, madison says, madison is a slave owner. he says we should not use this language in the constitution. lincoln will later say, so when slavery has disappeared, there should be no sign that it ever existed in the great charter of our liberties. so this is lincoln's view of the

founding fathers, that they hoped it would wither away, that they took start concrete stats to cause it ultimately to wither away, that america had strayed from this program. america had let it expand across the south west and in 1854 with the repeal of the missouri compromise, there's a possibility it could go into kansas and nebraska and this is what really changes lincoln's life and american politics. but he is saying this was their program. i'm getting back to it. so this is how he tries to reconcile that thorny point. yes. >> what is the name of the sweetheart that he lost to the

disease? >> his/her sweetheart was ann rutledge. i have to say, there is a civil war over every point of lincoln biography. and rutledge is one of the contending subjects. there are lincoln scholars who said no, no, there was nothing there. and their evidence is people who knew lincoln then, late half of them say she was really torn up at this. and half of them say you know, he didn't seem to be affected. i didn't see anything. but i think that is a reason. people don't show everyone what they think. do you show everyone you know what you think why ask you show the people closest to you. also some people just would notice. i didn't see anything. but numbers of people said he was distressed.

we had to hide the raisers. he talked about killing himself. and it seemed like the thing -- one thing i learned in writing this book. i knew lincoln was melancholy. all you have to do is look at pictures to talk. i was not aware of the deaths of his depression. this is a serious, lifelong curse that he bore. actor and rutledge dies, the thought that torments him whose brain will the cruise. the mullahs have been the wettest summer on record. it rained for foreign half months. that is a very depressive thought because rainfalls everywhere. it falls on us. cause analysis in grays. you can't stop it. but if you are depressed can you think it is falling on me, falling monday. i can't stand it.

so that is the name of the young woman and that is what i believe he experienced. yes, sir. >> many of his government are and i'm a member of the abraham lincoln association. my question to you is which has the greatest pole on abraham lincoln thought and conduct? the declaration of independence or the united states constitution? >> well, lincoln writes an interesting memo to himself when he's president elect. and he never used these exact words in a speech, but sometimes he would chat down and he might incorporate them later or he would just leave them there. in this particular thought, he uses a biblical phrase, that it works if they spoke at least

spoken is like apples of gold and pictures of silver. ironically, it had just been used in a letter to him by his old friend, alexander stephens. his colleague from his one term in congress, a week from georgia who is a virgin lincoln to condemn john brown's raid which has been the week before. stevens would become the vice president of the confederacy. to the last-minute using unionist and looking for linking to make some gesture to the south. he said it works at least spoken to you now would be apples of gold in pictures of silver. lincoln had dirty read that. he didn't need lincoln to instruct them to the bible. so later on when he's writing to himself, he uses the phrase again and he says the declaration is the apple of gold, the constitution is the picture of silver.

now the most internet lincoln scholar of the last 60 years is harry chow for and he's used this phrase over and over again to see the declaration is more up to lincoln on the constitution. certainly gold is more valuable than silver. it is. but the metaphor, is sure to read. robert alter come the hebrew scholar and translator said pictures of silver minstrelsy, like a jeweled framed. so the picture is so absurd that protects the apple of gold, you know, preserves it. it earns it a dataset we keep it. lincoln says in this now, so that neither be changed or altered. he is the man who in his self presentation, he says i am the man who holds both of these things. some people who want to choke

the declaration. they either openly disdain it or reinterpreted. stephen douglas says all men are created equal. doesn't mean savage indians. it is in the fijians, doesn't mean they lens. that is what lincoln douglas said. he said now that means men. jefferson knew what he was saying. that means men. then he says there are also people who hate the constitution. this is the abolitionists. william lloyd garrison had burned it. he said is a deal with the double because of the guarantees that it gives slavery. lincoln always says i am the man who stands with both. so in answer to your question, yes the declaration is more important, but they are equally important. and lincoln with number untangle

them or just tangled them. that is what he would tell you. >> average provo city manchester the rule of law. >> file, link and put a lot out there, but i think he is the one who is going to uphold both of them. >> yes, sir. >> i was like college fund successful as a president without a real education? >> well, he was self educated. he went to these 51 room school houses, two in kentucky before you excited and three more in indiana. there are lots of people better read than he was. people in his own cabinet. william seward was much better fed than abraham lincoln, much more widely fed. lincoln loved shakespeare. he never read all his books. what lincoln read, he read

pretty seriously. he read the dtd. so you know, lincoln is an autodidact. he teaches himself. one of his law partners, his second law partner, stephen logan. he said lincoln's general knowledge of the law was never very grave. the william herndon, his third law partners says he always dug up the root. if there is any case, he was master all the details. he would not throw the precedence for that case. that is the way his mind works. he fastened on something and the most moving testimony to god. his mother died when he was nine and his father married again. the stepmother was a remarkable woman. she knew she had a remarkable step son. her was sarah bush lincoln. she was interviewed as an old

lady i lincoln's last law partner, william herndon, who did what we would now call at oral history. he knew this friend of his sister mockable man and he studied him. he observed him after he was killed, he decided to write a biography and he started interviewing and realized this is stuff i was never aware of. he did doesn't does interviews of people who know him well, new to little. just all sorts of people. it's amazing work. that may be the most moving one of the looks up sarah bush lincoln and her husband's dad, son has been killed. he goes to meet her and at first he thinks they are having dinner. he thinks it's too late. she's gone.

i won't be about to get anything. he starts talking about the old days, warm syrup and then gives this terrific interview and says what lincoln was a boy and he didn't understand anything, he had to ask, why did this name? what were these people talking about? and then he would write it down and he would rephrase it. and he would keep doing it until he had it fixed in his mind. and if he was riding on a piece of wood, he would shave it off so it acclaimed pc game. but he had to figure things out to get them fixed in his mind and that is the way he continued to educate itself. yes, ma'am. >> thank you. and shame the call the lady. i was just wondering if you turned up any literature about newton bateman. he was my great, great grandfather and a friend of abraham lincoln's.

>> no, sorry. but look, but can the indexes have lincoln biographies. michael burling tam has a two volume huge look at the collective lincoln papers, which are online. i mean, there ought to be a way of chasing this. >> i have seen he was depended to public schools, director of public schools in springfield. >> that is my best advice. >> you share the same lot with abraham lincoln. anyway, thank you good >> thank you. yes, sir. >> and ask you about this question based on your studies have lincoln. what if he had not been assassinated and say the president and johnson did not become president without them we can structure and? what to say would've been the

situation? >> johnson was a bad pick, was nt? what is kind of astonishing miss two presidents have died already. lincoln has supported both of them. harrison died in 1841 and zachary taylor died in 1850. lincoln campaign for both men. in harrison's vice president, john tyler on did all of harrison's policies. he was a democrat who had been put on the ticket to balance it and he kicked over everything and this is something every x week remembered. so lincoln's choice of john send is odd. i know why he did it. he wanted a union democrat. he did think he was going to win his reelection. he thought it was a dicey thing and is looking for ways to broaden the ticket, broadness

space. and johnson was a brave man. he was a patriotic man. he was the only southern senator to stay loyal. but he was just boiling with resentments. a small man in a lot of ways. the fact is lincoln's murder is what makes a comparison between washington and lincoln ultimately impossible because lincoln's work was half done. it would be as if a die hard tori had shot washington after he returned his commission to congress in annapolis in 1783 and he still would've been the hero of the revolution. the man had won the war. the man who never seized power during the war. but his whole presidency he would have been lost to s. you know, lincoln would've had a hellacious tour.

how could it be worse than his first term? it would have been extremely stressful. the only thing i can say this lincoln was a very good politician. he was very good at keeping the republican party together. even republicans who disliked him, which many of them did. people thought he was too conservative. benched midway call them white trash. there is just a lot of% bad. i could've done us all yesterday. why did he take so long, this kind of thing? get lincoln there was not very successful rebellion and republican ranks against him. he was masterful at dividing and conquering among his rivals. he had genuine friendships with people who disagreed with him. the last speech he gives, both

urges the southern states participate in the ratification of the 13th amendment and that certain black people would be allowed to vote. so he is addressing both the freemen and the former rebels in a very farsighted and magnanimous spirit. booth did a lot. never underestimate john wilkes booth. he did far more than leon jackson. he struck the blow. is that it? okay, on that grim note. [applause]

>> julia gillard is the first in the prime minister of australia. she stepped about her life and experiences in office. at the brookings institution in washington d.c. this is about an hour and 20 minutes. a >> wonderful. good morning, everybody. i'm rebecca winthrop, director for the set of universal education here at the brookings institution. it is my great pleasure to welcome all of you to this wonderful piano that we have. i am just going to be making a personal introduction and then very shortly turning it over to my colleagues. we have. tom man who is senior fellow in governance studies at best and of course i think needs no

introduction to a few, but of course julia gillard, australia's first prime minister in e.j. dionne who's also first did not prime minister. last back >> you don't look that old. she really looks great, doesn't she? first female prime minister. and that e.j. dionne. the laughter covered up your intro. senior fellow government studies. we are joined, just a note lots of people not audience, but to note to people. welcome to ambassador tim beasley who is also the former leader of the labour party and tiny cleavers that, who is and the deputy leader of the labour party and also the shadow foreign minister. many welcome to all of you. it is my pleasure to introduce this session, the life of an australian prime minister, first being not prime minister. i am now going to be hunted

that, julia. a conversation with julia gillard on "my story." if you haven't seen her but, it's wonderful. you look at those recommendations from my colleagues. hold it up, yes indeed it copies are available. adobe is seeking around, won't you for anyone who wants to talk or get a book signed, et cetera. so i am not going to dive into the subject of the book. i am going to leave that to the panelists, but i do want to make a personal introduction to julia gillard who i first met a year ago. can you believe it was only eight year ago? she joined us as a distinguished fellow at europe working, working primarily in global education issues and we were very honored to have her. i thought well, she probably will be very high-level, very conceptual. former heads of state are often

buried it, big picture. indeed about that is true, but how wrong i was in terms of how stronger intellect is. so three points. you know, any economist would like to go toe to toe in different ways the standard deviation is welcome to do so. you may lose. as a former minister of education, myself and our entire team was quickly impressed at how well j-juliett new education and how thoughtful she was, how technical shoe buys and she certainly has been an amazing asset to us in our work. second point. excellent strategist. we spend lots of time europe are achaeans and in our work in particular briefing global leaders, sharing information on

global education, showing data about trends, making policy recommendations. and julia was one of the quickest studies i've ever had. it was three days, probably two college courses condensed into three days in terms of getting up to speed on the global education agenda. here's the data, transparent she took a few notes. but i wonder if she's not interested, maybe bored. and on the third day she had an interview with i believe christine, port and she was on it. every single fact, every data point, big picture strategy. ever since then, we have incredible high regard and she's been very strategic and hopeful thinking through our work in terms of conduct in research and analysis in impacting global policy, helping shape some of our key initiatives. lastly, on a very personal note, she is incredibly warm and

incredibly generous colleague to work with. at the very beginning we said you know, how should refer to your? prime minister gillard. she said please, please, please, call me julia. in short order were talking about the pool in australia, but we could all visit and i'm still on the list. i am not sure i can relate to duck that is a work expense, but working on it. but she has been very warm, very generous with your time come with me personally but with every member of my team, talking to the interns, research assistants, two senior executive fellows around the world. so it is a wonderful pleasure and honor to have her in the perkins family. with that, i know i also wanted to stay not only with brookings at the pleasure, but also a

great pleasure for global education community because not too long ago she joined as the chair of the board of the global partnership for education. and the audience and we didn't -- i didn't get the notes from you before hand, but i'm sure you would at all of these things and i know the entire global education community is very happy to have you in a leadership role in this sector. so with that, over to you, julia. >> thank you very much. thank you. [applause] >> thank you to the colleagues here. it's great to have this opportunity to launch my story here at brookings and i very do value every day i get to spend here. i also want to acknowledge kim beazley who are here and to acknowledge to special friends as well. brawl led to his being gathered as part or appeared intended off was my partner for much of the

time i was prime minister and the achievements and this book shared by hand in a very major way. i'd also like to acknowledge jon tester park are here at the fred. you probably like them. so thank you for being here. it's great to the colleagues here as well. thank you for being here. i want to start a reading a few words from my book, my story. the paragraph i wanted to reach you are as follows. barack obama at the cheetah one and apex summit in korea and japan in november 2010th. at the cheese 20 meeting, he over exceeded my expectations, pics summits like these could like excitement. what happened to the identity of hope? by the time to list the nato summit that year, we have

established such airport that the bank had continued the key photograph shows me up looking like i'm telling him off at an otherwise very serious occasion he catches a quick humorous discussion about our question time. when i explained that i had flown out after one and would fly back into another, president obama said he and need the opportunity to explain your agenda to the nation. are you mad ifad? is accompanying dramatic overacting. as the day it has consisted of 20 questions from the opposition, ousley directed to the prime minister. they are the bad. so that is diplomacy and this book. but on reflection as i was right in not come i can understand

what president obama was reaching for. what he is reaching for is the opportunity that unfortunately politicians don't get very much, which is the opportunity to talk to wreck to the community, not mediated through third parties, whether it's a mediator is achieving his direct or are someone who's a newspaper journalist or someone who put that together. we don't have as many opportunities as we would like or need to have a direct conversation. having the opportunity to write a book you can just have a direct conversation and put it out there for people to look at into judge. so i hope any of you to read the book. what you will encounter in this book is in some way not at all an american story, a very australian story and the very australian story starts with me coming from a migrant gambling from wales when i was four years

old and ended up being prime minister of a very different system than you have here and we find you don't have to have any of those debates about whether or not president obama was born in the united states. it can just get to the political arguments about political and the lights. it's a very australian story in another scene, which is that would have been impossible for me. i'm unmarried women, childless, atheist who has succeeded in american policy in the way that i succeeded in history and policy. something about the contrast and compare that our two nations that have been possible for me. but it will encounter in this book to dates and issues that are very familiar to people in the u.s. than once that we face together. the book certainly campuses are in cage meant in the war in

afghanistan and our engagement in countering terrorism about which of course we deal alongside you in so many other nations in the world. right minister went to more than 20 funerals in the conflict in afghanistan and as we now see conflict spreading throughout the middle east with the so-called islamic state to reflect on the books i learned during the course of leading our nation in that conflict. i deal extensively in the book with the shared challenge of climate with their grand adventure in putting a price on carbon, a very fast and furious political argument. a political argument which is a bipartisan in our nation ship lost, when first elected to government in 2007, both sides of politics stood for that election on the basis they would enact an emissions trading scheme.

if you set in the middle of that campaign instead i predict within a price on carbon and climate change will become a flashpoint part of your shoe, they would've looked at you very oddly in a campaign where people were fighting about the paperwork we are fighting about. and yet has become the flashpoint part is an issue of our decade and in many ways if you're a decade. .. since the, and our nation an