pmi partner, the leader of the democratic side of the committee, nick, great friend,

great ally, a lot of stories with nick, my staff told me not to tell the one i really wanted to tell. i will get rolling here, you never know what will come out but through the when we sat down for the first time to talk about how to work together, nick said it is about communication. let me know where you are and where i am, we worked hard on that, there were times we would negotiate with the senate and we agreed to be on the same page and there are times to get together to figure out what would happen in the room and he would come wait to get a chance to talk that he truly was a great counterpuncher. when barbara would come up with something we disagreed with i didn't have to, he was able to counterpunch and help prevail on the issue. again, it is a great honor to work with you and got a lot of

stuff done. there was one really interesting story, the most important word is where it passed but there was another story that was one of the highlights of the conference that cause us to lose our way for 15 minutes but i can't get into it because my staff consists i shouldn't. it is a great story about nick and his great history on capitol hill and his great friendships he developed so nick, we are going to miss you greatly. windows that we will be laying up their, and always have friends. >> may i respond to that? >> i will say thank you for your kind words and comment every member of this committee, both sides of the aisle commend the professionalism of the staff. each member of this committee

brings talent and background and a wealth of knowledge about transportation, so many e shoes, they also bring dedication to their constituents above , they also bring dedication to their constituents above and beyond anything else. this committee is about jobs and what did the bills we produced, you have returned that spirit of bipartisanship to this committee and every member has the desire to work to produce for the american people, this is where the future of the country is, in this committee wait here. i feel very safe at that future is in great hands under your leadership. thank you. >> i recognize the senator again.

the gentlelady from west virginia. >> that will get you know where. i appreciate your leadership, i am honored to be on the committee for 12 years but i want to take this opportunity to thank my colleague from west virginia, he served honorably and with long tenure and a lot of distinction over his 38 years in congress most notably on this committee. his legacy in west region you will be long and strong. the ray hall institute of transportation i think shows his passion for all areas of transportation and it is a growing vibrant economic development driver in our state and i appreciate that for him. one of the things i always admired about nick is he has a wonderful turn of phrase. if you ever heard him argue a point or read his press releases or heard him try to convince you

to his way of thinking, he is very clever and humorous at the same time. i always enjoy it that i except when aimed at me maybe, but in any event i thank you for everything you have done for me and with me and for our beloved state of western virginia you have been a fighter for wes virginia through and through and i appreciate it, thank you. >> i appreciate your kind comments. congratulations to you, we will always be working for the future of our great state and t country, thank you. >> very briefly, i want to thank you, mr. chairman, for your kind words and all so thank you for the leadership you have provided to this committee. my fondest hope as i leave the congress is away in which this

committee, to characterize the way the congress as a whole conducts its business. that may be a distant hope but it is very much my hope. i have greatly enjoyed working with ranking member rahall island about how to do my job from watching that. chairman gibbs with whom we worked closely on the water resources and environment subcommittee i have enjoyed my service, cherished my time on this committee and i wish you the best in my future. thank you, mr. chairman. >> i have been on this committee my entire tenure in congress. the chairman of the subcommittee, you will then in resources, nick came to my district for interesting hearing but i tell the story the day

after election day, i will miss nick a lot. jim doyle who has been with nick almost the whole time, i have stories about jim too in the days when we used to earmarks which we would bring back and how we promoted them. kim, it might n , it might not, your district and transportation investments are important to the american people. thank you for that great work and i look forward to working with you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. to all of our departing members we wish you well. just had an incredible run. in my short tenure as chairman,

ranking member, we all remember working with mr. transportation, we did a lot of positive fingers. the first reauthorization, passenger rail in even years, a record number, $24 billion, which we actually over wrote president bush's veto quietly when jim went into the hospital. mr rahall, and i found out where beckley, west virginia, was with our very first transportation hearings. the reauthorization. some things couldn't be accomplished when one party had the house, senate and white

house and i know we had some rough and tumble that we did accomplish for the american people a record number of pieces of legislation. i think him for his service and all the departing members for their service. we have an important responsibility, building the nation and infrastructure and i intend to continue to work with everyone to make certain we keep that obligation. >> i thank the gentleman. with that we will go to our panel and now. thank you for indulging us. our panel today consists of calvin soholl iii, the president of the business roundtable john engler, the president of the airline pilots

association, mark baker, president and ceo of the aircraft and rand policy association, the president and ceo of airlines for america and carl renault, president of the national air traffic control association. thank you for being here. and before i let you start mr. larsen wants to be recognized. >> thank you. i want to enter into the record a letter from clark wrote regarding issues she has around la guardia. >> so ordered. with that, we recognize first general skoboll for an opening statement. >> members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify on efforts to modernize the national aerospace system. faa has undergone considerable change after congress granted

several important reform of stories. faa is also in the midst of a multibillion-dollar effort to improve the efficiency of its aircraft system. my testimony today will highlight several challenges we have identified through ongoing and recently completed audits as it tries to meet its modernization and reform goals. first faa has instituted a number of important reforms such as establishing the air traffic organization it has yet to fully adopt sound management practices such as easing metrics and goals to assess productivity. without such practices the reforms will have little effect on lowering costs growth for improving operational efficiencies. we determined between fiscal years 1996, and 2012, if a a's total budget, operations budget and personnel compensation and benefits costs nearly doubled in

nominal terms with inflation accounting for only part of this increase. further f a a.'s work force remained relatively constant during this period and air-traffic operations dropped 20% between fiscal year 1998, and 2012. second faa's acquisition reforms have fallen short in approving the delivery of new technologies and capabilities. when f a implemented in new acquisition management system in 1996 its stated goal was to cut acquisition costs by 20% and schedule by 50% within three years yet between 1996 and the establishment of the 800 in 2004 acquisitions averaged 30% over budget and 35% behind schedule. consistent with that a's prior performance. moreover of the 15 major acquisitions that were ongoing as of last year which totaled

$16 billion tweeting could cost increases amounting to $4.9 billion and eight experience delays ranging six months to 15 years. most of these overruns were attributable to two problem programs but even factoring them out the remaining programs, $539 million over budget and behind schedule by an average of 29 months. faa's cost overruns, delays and poor performance on major acquisitions are traceable to longstanding management weaknesses and identifying requirements estimating software complexity, leveraging sound contract in practices and securing reliable estimates. for example during the award face of the contract, support service contract to improve air traffic controller training, and a found 60% to 80% likelihood the contract would not meet its

goals did committed staff hours proposed by successful bidder but faa did not require the contractor to address this risk before awarding the contract. leading to the cost increase of 31% in the first two years of the contract. as faa works to meet the goals of its modernization efforts it faces additional challenges, key among these is the work to implement four investment priorities identified by jo lin king does free-agency committee including performance based navigation which identified as a top priority. f a a published its master and learned mentation plan for priorities last month. however executing the plan and holding all parties accountable could be difficult especially given faa's history of schedule slippages and cost overruns. adding to these complexities faa faces the demanding task of

integrating unmanned aircraft systems in u.s. airspace, rapidly accelerating demand for important economic and technological opportunities for the nation. however, before they could safely operating u.s. airspace at a a must first reach consensus with industry on design and safety standards, establish necessary rules and regulations and collect and analyze safety data to better understand and mitigate risk. finally, recent incidents involving fires in chicago area aircraft facilities demonstrate the importance of assuring faa was in place for security risks and viable business continuity plans to maintain operation of the nation's extensive air traffic control system. ultimately f a a.'s actions to implement reform authority two decades ago have not achieved

results of the agency in this committee's seat. we remain committed to working with [speaking in native tongue] to help it succeed in meeting ongoing challenges highlighted today. this concludes my prepared statement. i am happy to answer any questions you or the committee may have to. >> before we go to governor engler it is fitting that he had a fitting introduction to the power he brings to the panel today so with that i yield to miss miller. >> i would like to thank you for providing the sound effect of the whistle in the room when talking about aviation. we appreciate that but my honor to introduce governor john engler from the state of michigan. as many of you served as secretary of state for eight years when i came to congress that i have the honor and privilege of serving with governor engler during that time and if i can be parochial, he was one of my most successful governors and one of the nation's most successful on all kinds of issues but he left a

legacy and transportation area as well so very fitting we are talking about transportation today in the aviation system. we have a department in southeast michigan, one of the nation's and during his tenure last year as governor he put together an authority to clean up a lot of things that need to be cleaned up at the airport and millions of you go through that airport you will see what a fantastic facility it is because he recognizes how import deviation is, a critical component of the transportation grid. the president of the business roundtable with vision and commitment taken to a national level we appreciate his attendance here today. >> thank you. with that i remind our panelists, it is pretty annoying. the governor recognized for five

minutes. >> thank you very much on your wonderful comments. the committee appreciates the opportunity to testify on aviation air traffic control as congress begins work on reauthorization of the administration. certainly pleased to speak on behalf of the business roundtable, 200 ceos leading major u.s. corporations from kittyhawk to the end dirksen senate office building 0st century, the world leader in aviation. today our air traffic system remains the safest and said the as the chairman noted in opening comments it is the most technologically advantage and may no longer be a world's most cost-effective. the round table recently conducted analysis applied canadian rates for air traffic control services, preliminary results suggest being an aggregate the canadians are delivering services at a lower cost than the f a a. at a minimum the next faa

authorization should speak to reaffirm and regain u.s. aviation leadership by factoring more moderately efficient system starting with air-traffic control. such a modernized system would produce significant benefits for air travelers including life huge number who are traveling on business and advanced technologies and procedures will enable more planes to land or take off safely on existing runways, and more direct routes also equal shorter flights and more efficient operations. notable savings and staffing in field position and noise pollution would follow. the modernized system overseas sale of technologies developed and deeply in the united states would expand reasserting u.s. aviation leadership. like many of the stakeholders business leaders are concerned about the slow and uncertain pace of democratization after being represented by the f a a's next gen program. numerous official records

document cost overruns. just heard some of those from my colleagues, delayed implementation in the system and let stakeholders' question whether we have the best model will not just for delivering next gen but also for the ongoing management and modernization of what used to be the world's most advanced air-traffic control system. a few years ago i convened experts who identified challenges to aviation and they found problems start with funding. and predictable, and reliable, often funding streams are damaging long-term planning investments, last year's sequestration with furloughs and controllers and near shutdown of 149 contract ours is only the worst example. the second underlying problem, governance. air-traffic organization insisted too many agencies and administrators. third underlying problem, organizational culture. culture needs to embrace

innovation so modernization occurs continuously as technology advances. as an example of a culture of innovation, at&t, the company chaired by the round table around stevenson. the years we are talking about next gen, it is gunter two generations of cellular technology flipping forward to 4 g streaming videos and the iphone system they have in their pocket. the last two decades as seen other countries with the restructured air-traffic controller's pundits and governed, australia, canada, germany, one of the yearly movers. these governors determine an air traffic control is a high tech service business that can be funded by user is that affect customers. more than 50 countries separated their air-traffic control systems from their transport

ministries leading to regulation of air safety. in the u.s. feet management advisory council recently studied the same issues. their final report in january of 2014 made three unanimous recommendations. first, air-traffic control funding from the federal budget so that aviation users would pay directly for air traffic control services and allow revenue stream to be bonded. second, the governing board of aviation stakeholder, not just to advise on technology decisions but to set priorities for management and modernization. third separate the air traffic control system from the f a a safety regulator. this will establish independent arms safety regulation of the kind currently applies to all the other actors in u.s. aviation. these three unanimous recommendations were made by paul run all the will hear from

a moment. finally it is important financial and business model for any new structure be sound, full be discussed and proudly supported. the appreciation for today's hearing, the f a a reauthorization offers a critically important opportunity to advance next gen, it restored leadership in the national aerospace on a path to continue with modernization. and we are working to achieve these important goals. mr. chairman, i have a more complete statement for submission to the record and appreciate the opportunity to do that. >> the president of the air line pilots association for five minutes. >> members of the committee. i am the president of the air line pilots association international. thank you for the opportunity to represent our's 51 members who fly for 30 passenger and cargo

airlines in the united states and canada before the committee today. when it comes to issues of modernizing air space in the united states. contrary to what you are hearing previously i am happy to report we are on the verge of becoming a success story and one that you can help us right, we made considerable progress in turbulent times in spite of dealing with issues like sequestration and operating under 23 short-term extensions. next gen is a collaborative initiative involving industry, government and key users including airline pilots and controllers and technicians. the very system components may save time, fuel, at the missions, and money while increasing safety and i want to underscore that. there is no question our nation's ear space needs an overhaul to prepare for the

influx of passengers projected to arrive in our terminals and continued growth of the cargo industry but there is room for growth in our aviation industry. i say is the we agree on 95% of how to achieve that growth but the 5% we disagree on lies in how to pay for it. that is the real issue. a lack of commitment when it comes to dedicated federal resources now to a problem we know is only going to get worse. we need leadership to set us on a path for continued infrastructure expansion and aerospace modernizations so we can better serve our customers and maintain our position as world leader in aviation. continuing the recent tradition of kicking the can down the road will result in failure and many in this room he failure. this committee can deal that

leadership role assuring faa a can count on the sustainable long-term funding needed to get the job done right. for the aviation industry to succeed this funding must come from a source separated from the constant jeopardy inherent in reauthorization process. we simply cannot put the future of our nation's airspace in the cross hairs of d.c. politics. after all we are updating the largest, most complex, and safest air transportation system in the world and that requires everyone to be all in. up until this point, that hasn't been the case. several years ago, airlines invested $100,000 per aircraft to install controller pilot data link communications equipment for. only for the f a to cut funding for the program because the congress wouldn't support it.

that put our airlines out millions of dollars and left them with useless aircraft, some of those airplanes are getting parked in the desert with equipment that was never used. if our airlines invest in new equipment on our airliner's they have to seek return on investment. not a different plan from a different administration. aviation industry stakeholders' want to see that return on investment to pilots, controllers, airline. we all want to operate in the 21st century, not the 1950s infrastructure. the current air traffic control system isn't perfect. and 90 capacity for the system. and the current operational performance of the system may not warrant an immediate need

for a complete overhaul. really creating a stand-alone air-traffic service provider. and i appear showing you a scale of that model. pilots operate safely under any structure, i would however respectfully offer the canada model needs a thorough investigation before anyone jumps to the conclusion that is the answer in the united states. as i mentioned earlier the national aerospace is by far the largest most complex aerospace system in the world. the kenna model might not translate well to the u.s. system because it only covers roughly a quarter of the air space in flights we manage. that is the east coast alone. if you c v e issue here what worked well is completely manageable in canada, might not scale to the system's needs. we all know the system has room

to improve but structural changes to the governors of the air-traffic organization will not serve the fundamental problems facing our industry. we first need to the debate about reliable funding. mr. chairman, i heard you say many times before america's aviation, we are the global leader. if we want to hold this position we cannot allow government policies either regulations or taxes to put us at a competitive disadvantage for the rest of the world. we already pay 17 unique taxes to most of any industry. i know you understand that because you introduced and passed legislation to make 17 taxes more transparent to the travelling public. thank you for that but there is more work to do. out of those 17 taxes some don't even go back to aviation. i speak for many of my colleagues who are sitting on the panel, we are set up for the

aviation industry being of a piggy bank for government programs that have nothing to do with aviation and finally, that is why i am asking you to invest in the aviation industry. i need to wonderscore the airline pilots association is committed to make the tough choices necessary to ensure our aviation system remains the best, the safest system on the planet in with your leadership, stable funding can be held and will move forward. thank you. >> thank you, all i can say is themen. with that, mr. baker, the president and ceo of aircraft owners' association, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for inviting me to testify today? i am president and ceo of aircraft owners analysis association. >> pull the mic closer to you. >> this one is not working. >> is that your shift over

there? >> happy to work together. >> the general aviation industry is under stress and needs the f 8 policies and procedures that will support the growth. .. we are encouraged to give fa the direction of the tools needed to improve its internal processes. the certification process is used today have -- they simply

cannot keep pace with today's rapid change and improvements in technology. changing these processes, lower cost, reduced bureaucracy and acoustic will help general aviation grow. these should be our collective goals. i'd like to provide three examples. one, medical reform. number two, recertification and retrofit. and the faa's mandates. the third class medical reform is long overdue. nearly three years ago a petition for expansion of the medical standard. a standard the faa had put in place more than a decade. this standard allows pilots to fly without an exam. which is less comprehensive than most normal annual physicals. the faa's decision to limit

third class medical for these pilots was the correct one. over the past decade it has not headed to some impact on safety and do so grow general aviation. considered estimate indicates expanding the standard to private pilots would save in excess of $24,000. today other than sport pilots all general aviation pilots under the age of 40 must take a medical exam every five years. pilots over 40 need an exam every two years. in between pilots self-certify. in addition every two years pilots are required to undergo a flight review with a certified flight instructor who must determine if pilots cognitive ability to fly. we believe 10 years of experience we have the sport pilot step demonstrates it should expand to larger segment. the faa and dot are reviewing a proposal in addition to legislation introduced by both house and the senate to the

nearly 185 cosponsors, many of whom serve on this panel. we thank you for your vigorous support expanding the standard to more pilots is a top priority. we look forward to working with you, this committee and the next congress on this issue. certification are urgently needed. since 2008 the aviation industry has been working to streamline and simplify certification standards. to that end this committee shepherded small -- and the bill was signed into law last year. to fully realize the benefits of safety and reduce certification cross the policies for retrofitting existing aircraft with new equipment must also be streamlined and transformed. these realities are highlighted by the fact that general aviation fleet averages more than 40 years old. widespread availability of moderate equipment to make much -- less expensive and too in the industry a boost at every level.

the desir desire to critical tor safety is admirable, in practice this approach has the opposite effect. allowing products to reach the market more quickly with little cost, simplify flying and improve the safety for folks flying today and into the future. the faa's mandate is too expensive. the faa has set a standard of january 1 for aircraft is equipped nor to fly in keeping airspace near large cities and airports. standards were designed for commercial airliners and the resulting equipment is just too costly. more than 81,000 of the 180,000 certified aircraft on the registry are worth less than $40,000. those aircraft, about $25,000. that puts 6000 minimum cost to install equipment beyond the reach of many owners. without changes we'll see these airplanes parked in fields reduced to limited flying.

we believe technological advances, noncertified equipment could lower the cost in compliance with mandates. we look for declared with the faa and it is to make low-cost solutions available to all segments. in conclusion we believe the future general aviation depends on both, transformation reforms to the certification and regulatory process is at faa and dot. what an ugly the faa has a problem to go back this committee and coax a funded the faa generously increasing the budget by more than 500% since 1980. assisting funding to excise taxes collected on fuel rather than user fee has proven both efficient and effective at the faa's new $16 billion budget gives the agency sufficient resources to make needed changes in which oversees general aviation. the challenge facing the of age use of resources to improve

efficiencies. we need the fa to embrace the system that can keep us with rapidly changing technology that is comfortable with time and economic increment safety improvements that will work to reduce risks today for hundreds of thousands of general aviation pilots. when we work together we see positive results for general aviation. on behalf of aopa's members we appreciate your leadership. think of the opportunity to appear. >> and now i will turn to mr. calio. recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. airlines for america's investments appreciate the opportunity to go to stay in this hearing on the operation and modernization of the nation's airspace system. the issues run a modernizing and upgrading our systems are critical to the future of u.s. aviation and the future growth of our economy. at stake are with you and your constituents can get your destinations faster, smarter and

in a more environmentally friendly way. >> can you get closer to the mic? >> sorry. i'm already standing up, mr. chairman house of representatives at stake is what you and your constituents can get to the destinations faster, smarter and more efficiently. aviation is 5% of her gross domestic product. the question before this committee is pretty simple. kenwood people and products in a more efficient manner with the more modern system? there seems to be disagreement that we can do so. three federal commissions and reams and reams of testimony congressional testimony as well as multiple speeches by multiple stakeholders all agree to the point. so the question becomes how do we get that system and what does it look like? hear the clarity of the goal starts to get complicated, it's achievement starts to get complicated. while you call for transformational change, and we agree with it, different

stakeholders have different interests and my guess is the and will have significant resistance to any significant potential changes. [inaudible] it's been detailed before this committee, detailed by gao report, by the inspector general and others. some of that record, disappointment are detailed in our test one and i commend that testimony to you. so the record makes a series of questions. does the united states have the best governance and funding structure in place to deliver the most efficient and modern air traffic control system? have the htc models used by other countries enhanced safety and efficiency, and if so can the best adjective to be applied

here without adversely impacting safety? if yes, with the adoption actually improve our system which is a key question obviously. and if so, at what cost and who? asking this question is not a criticism of the current faa leadership. they have been advancing the ball. however, it is something i need to ask and examine these questions give the checkered history of progress and, frankly, the stakes are so but maintaining the status quo. a4a has an open mind on these questions. to that end we've engaged independent aviation expert to create a fact base and see if the facts lead us to any kind of conclusions. our study has been put into financial operational and government performance of u.s. atc system against models used by other countries. it's evaluating the risks and opportunities for specific elements of reform on the u.s. system and developing u.s. atc options highlighting the

benefits, economically and implications for nextgen as a potential governance impact of reform. the work isn't complete. but basic observations are emerging. first the difficulties viewers modernization efforts have encountered in the past seem to consistently come back to government structure and funding questions. fix, the commercial atc model presented by, presents three alternatives to consider represented by the united kingdom which has a public-private partnership. canada which is completely independent commercial corporation, and germany which is an independent government owned corporation. all three models engage aerospace users in decision-making to a greater and more structured degree than we do here. all three models have improved citizen safety and efficiency. and all three systems, all three models have implemented a

long-term modernization programs pretty smoothly. bottom line, we have a good aviation system. with the best pilots, the best aircraft traffic control. frankly, we can do better. it's clear we don't need another federal commission on this issue. what we do need is for the congress and all major stakeholders to keep an open mind and take a clinical fact-based approach to looking at possible solutions, including the models in other countries. if we determined the significant reforms are not necessary, or frankly are not politically achievable, then we still need to examine what we can do about the bottlenecks and, of course, as an obstacles in the current system, and admit we might find some answers outside the u.s. and apply them here. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. and now turn to mr. paul rinaldi. >> thank you, mr. chairman to testify.

we all have a stake in national aerospace system. it's an economic engine. a contribute $1.5 billion to her gross domestic product every year. provides 12 million american jobs. i can appreciate the committees outreach to veterans and issues in the national aerospace. this committee is doing it the right way. identify the problem and collectively can develop the right solution. we must make something clear to any change we make needs to be accomplished with the precision like approach so we don't interrupt the day-to-day operation of the national aerospace system. currently we run the largest and safest most efficient most complex most diverse airspace system in the world. our system is incomparable, unequal and unrivaled by any country in the world. the united states airspace system and the faa is considered the gold standard in the world aviation industry. and yet we, to the reality we

need change. the globalization and innovation are driving dramatic changes in aviation. our current system has served us well to this point. however, we face challenges in respond to the problems of an unstable budget, the inability finance long-term projects, competing stakeholders interest, then you go to grow the national airspace system to new users and legislative priorities. every stakeholder in a national airspace system should work together to ensure that the united states continues to be the world leader. without change we face continued funding uncertainty. we all remember the destruction that we experienced in 2013 with sequester. in march the of a skilled of all modernization projects, with the closing 238 air traffic control towers and the tide goes 149 of them. to try to reduce services across many airports. they stopped atc hiring for the

full year. but they furloughed air traffic controllers. they went to a fixed maintenance philosophy and stop -- stockpiling critical parts for essential equipment. all meet the budget restrictions of sequester. this just can't happen again. this is no way to treat this economic engine and the we to treat our national airspace system. you see, without change will continue to struggle to develop, train, implement the nextgen initiatives. currently knock and fao working along with other stakeholders on the nextgen advisory committee. implement in a project and deploy new equipment procedures across the country. and no to keep pace with these initiatives we need to be properly funded and the faa needs the adequately staffed which can only happen with the

stable predictable funding system. we will continue to struggle to, without change will continue to struggle to maintain proper resources and staffing for our air traffic control facilities. the air traffic controllers are the backbone. we should never shortstaffed our facilities. the air traffic control's maintaining a safe orderly flow of aircraft across this country. in addition to that there subject experts will post develop, implement and train the nextgen initiatives. and on the job training for every new hire the comes into the system. this requires us to be a properly staffed. understaffed facility can barely keep all the positions open to run the day-to-day operations safely and efficiently. nevertheless, we have took train are controlled on new technology and equipment. understaffing our facilities will be laid modernization projects and we will be responsible for the over cost problems.

mr. chairman, our national airspace system is an american treasure. we cannot treat it like we did in 2013. aviation is uniquely an american tradition. but we need to make changes to secure a stable funding system, improper governance so we can continue to be the world leader which will allow us to grow the aviation system, not shrink it, to allow us to integrate new users such as commercial air space programs properly. and will give us the competitive edge to continue to be the world leader in aviation. mr. chairman, i think of for the opportunity to testify in front of you today. i look forward to answer any questions you may have thank you very much. >> thank all of you for being here today. we have a number of members that are in the queue for questions. our practice on the republican side whatever that cabell goes downtown if you here when the gavel goes down you get first in the queue. because there are so many members i'm going to forego my

questioning until the end and double first of all yield five minutes to mr. lobiondo and i will be brutal with the gavel at the fight there will because everybody shows up we will be here for a long, long time. so mr. lobiondo, five minutes. >> turn one. i don't want you to be brutal with me. thank the panel for being here. i think most of you know that rick larsen and myself have really focused in on nextgen and implication of this is all coming together. what i'd like to know starting with you, mr. scovel, we passed the faa with creating a joint industry and faa implementation plan to begin delivering short-term nextgen benefits to our airspace. in october we received a copy of that plan. can you tell us what you think of the mayo aorta so nextgen ane faa's implementation plan to address this? >> thank you mr. lobiondo. certainly we are aware the

recommendations to faa and faa's plan in october and as you may remember this committee has passed ask of my office, and the inspector general to review faa's plans are moving nextgen forward, especially in the near term. the faa's commitment to the recommendations has been vitally important that we are greatly encouraged by those. as the committee nostrum reading the report and faa's recommendations, those in jail a greater commitment in which our office has endorsed for a long time now. commitment to service operations for aircraft get on the ground they can move around the airport surface in an efficient and effective manner. data, coming up in used to calm, those in 2019 specifically. so those are three of the main recommendations which faa has

endorsed an attempt to move out on. we would put if anything an asterisk for the committee's consideration navigation. this has been a priority for the airline industry for a long time. it will allow them to move the aircraft in an efficient way. but the may not be realized. >> mr. calio, same question. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think that, i would agree. performance-based navigation has been one of our key priorities. we helped develop the priorities that the trannineteen said. we think they are critical.

the whole point of them is to move to some near-term benefits of the stakeholders can see some benefit from investments that have to be made. some of it is going painfully slowly despite best efforts. pbn is a key. we have moved very slowly. we're going, basically city by city, metroplex by metroplex with not a lot of shown for. a lot has to do with the procedures being developed. we have equipment on the aircraft to do it. but the process or the procedures to get those planes to use it is not really happening very quickly and there's a whole variety of reasons. some of which are detailed in our written testimony. it's a matter of us being able to fly, a matter of the controls being able to use them in different places. if we are going to do it's got to be more scalable across the country otherwise will take years and years to get to work. we have other technologies that

are not harmonize with others. so pbn would be the quickest way to get quick results. >> mr. rinaldi, i'm sorry i don't have a minute but i would like you to take on this one also. >> we are part of the initiative. we agree with initiatives. i will tie you changing major airspace and float in and out of metroplex is not an easy task. it's not something would just develop in a still wrote and wrote and out. it has to be tested and developed a continued tested with pilots and in weeks once we implement. where to go back and retest it to make sure captured what we want to do. it's not an easy thing to do but it sounds like it is an easy thing to do but it is not. the one thing that will slow us down is the unstable funding. the second we have to fall back and we don't have the funding to continue these initiatives, we stop all modernization projects and just focus on running the day-to-day operations of.

>> thank you. chairman shuster will make sure we have stable funding. thank you. >> with your help, mr. lobiondo. without, recognize ranking member larsen for five minutes. >> turn one. mr. rinaldi, you discussed some of the discussion about a deal reform and so on. what reservations with the air traffic controllers have regarding a change in the air traffic organization? >> obviously anytime you make any change to a system that is as large as this and as efficient as we are at this point, we don't want to disrupt the day-to-day operations. we can't lose focus but what about running the world's safest, largest and most complex most diverse system in the world. the changes ever going to make changes we have to be very precision like to do it

methodically to ensure that we do not interrupt safe and orderly flow of airplanes. >> captain moak, a similar question. the what specific things, do you specific items you would like to help us understand with regards to separating functions out from the faa? >> just a couple of things. first off, we are having speed closer to the mic. >> this is kind of a high-class problem in the united states. if you read the papers and watch the news you know there have been accidents all over the world. it in the united states with the safest airspace in the world but we don't stop there. we want to improve that. we wanted to be more efficient, we want a safer rule. there's other things want to do but we're doing that with the idea we have the safest airspace in the world with what was said earlier, that dust controls,

best buy is, best procedures. so the idea that we're just going to go to another system, okay, i think we should take positive and think through it. the current system is performing quite well operationally. our airlines have been through consolidation over the last few years. they are performing quite well. it gives us the ability to step back, look at it, modernize the. that's important. very important to all you have to do is look at the dot, beer of transportation statistics and now when they report out different metrics for the airline industry -- bureau of transportation to a much improved on the issues of pbn, we can do better. the controllers are trained. the pilots are trained. the airlines that nick represents are equipped to we just have to keep at it and it is difficult to bring each one online but when it's brought online, it is truly remarkable.

so i would say proceed cautiously with throwing everything out. and again i want to underscore the whole thing about stable funding going forward. >> mr. calio, you are doing a report. governor engler mentioned a report. you mention all the reports that have been done. a lot of reports but it seems to be that the timing of these if we're going to be moving forward in any way, shape, or form whether it's a large reform or even management reforms or individual reforms, things have to come to a head pretty quickly if we're going to be moving forward by september 2015. i'm hearing a tapping. that's not you, mr. chairman, thank you very much. you are just impatient generally. have you thought through the timing for us? >> yes, we have. we will be done shortly and begin to brief you.

we know you need the material. from our perspective in order to develop the position we need to know what the facts are. we are trying to do it in a dispassionate fashion so we can take a look at our system. we're not suggesting going ahead with major changes. we're trying to see if they would be worthwhile, whether they can be made to if they can, what the impact would be. >> governor engler, have you all thought through that flip the switch moment? that is, when you move from one model to the next model is your thinking through the ideas that you're presenting? >> well, i think that's part of the conversation, and clearly even under congressional mandate there have been changes in the creation of a chief operating officer responsible of the ato. there's been iterations coming along. so i served it with ago the comments made safest, largest.

don't mess with the way it works but you do have a challenge i think inside faa that we've heard a lot about from other stakeholders about the sort of have this technical build out proposition. i mentioned the idea, our focus on funding. that's very important, key decisions to be made become even the role, one of the weakest we known, the lack of the capital budget and process. so the attractiveness may be able to bomb this comic it is funded and built it out without financial interruption. let that happen. at the same time there's tremendous amount of work inside faa and the procedures and practices, training and bedding that's been discussed today. it seems to me there are is plenty work for everyone that flips the switch a moment i think is not so much a disruptive thing. it is i think a transition that takes place. i think that takes time and i

don't think it's anything abrupt and certainly can't be anything that disrupts the function of what's worked well. >> without i recognize mr. massey for five minutes. >> turn one. mr. baker, from your written in this spoken test what is what interested you are saying that the faa's approval process could be making general aviation more risky or less safe. can you explain how that is? what needs to change about the approval process? is it taking too long to get technological improvements integrated into general aviation industry? >> exactly right. can you hear me now? is this working? the idea that you have an aircraft making four years old, call it, is equivalent to having your car with an am radio. certification process to put fm radio and it could take years, billions of dollars. the industry is saying it takes too long, cost to much, not

willing to put those upgraded products in. situational awareness is still the number one issue that leads to accidents. today the ipad has added more value to situational awareness him as anything else. if you're trying to install the equipment on an aircraft today it would take millions of dollars to try to do that for the industry and take years to get it done. there should be an expedited process. we have experimental aircraft today, situational awareness and has done at another low-cost. the systems can move quickly and the faa has not moved in the process yet. >> so they need to be leaving quicker. is anything in the faa reauthorization that we could do and congress to encourage that? >> we think a good bit opportunity for some of his older aircraft and advocacy program or classic program to kids these expedited. safety items, not changing the power plant with a whimper putting a good panel over aircraft make us safer, easier

for people access the air safe and -- airspace and be done. >> the the adoption, what does it cost? what is the least costly entry point for something in general aviation to become compliant with the 2020 standard? >> it gives the pilot in the cockpit no information, chest pains, about five or $6000 installed today. >> so it's over 20% of cost of aircraft? >> a disadvantage. >> is the result is a some of these are going to be parked in hangers come in bone yards? pilots will not be flying? >> correct. >> there needs to be a lower cost solution. what is your organization doing to promote this lower cost solution?