that we would ever do this? now. by the end of the discussion we were talking about if russia continued on its current trajectory could it somehow join nato. so one final point having to do with the legal defensive weapons of the ukraine, the decision will happen sooner rather than later and there are at least two bipartisan bills in congress right now and unless i read it incorrectly, tony said that the administration felt that it was about time that we furnish us. my question is, what are the implications for relations with russia and with the european allies if that does go through? >> thank you. if you can ask your question in 60 seconds or less, we will get two extra copies of this book.

[laughter] >> thank you and i will be quick. i want to add a sense of urgency here. the ukrainian economy is down. [inaudible] than that we need to do on our side is assess prices in the top 10% of gdp and it is an interesting system. what the west needs to do is to spend this on top of the $7 billion and it makes this for five or six years. >> we will deliver the extra copies to your institute. [laughter] >> asking the panelists to wrap up, whatever they'd like to say, steve, we will start with you about a 30 billion-dollar western assistance package to

what your point is. >> we have written two pieces in the last two weeks which lay out the western response and want the ukrainians have responsibility for and i commend them. they are available on the peterson institute website and i agree with every word that he has written. and i do want to answer the point about military assistance. first of all with a caviar and the less it is talked about the better. but here we are. second, there are the house and what that means and we have suggested some things and are we talking about the grant of military assistance and there's a whole variety of policy questions. but let's just take it at its most basic level. helping the ukraine to strengthen oteri capabilities. if united states is engaged in

the process, we will have more influence with the ukrainian government on what exactly they do at those capabilities. let me take the counterfactual, which is to lead the ukrainian government, whether it is economically were defensively, it does not seem to suggest an outcome that's going to be better. so we have to think long and hard about whether the ukraine is something that we want to go to war over. we do not. absolutely do not. the question is what makes it more or less likely that we get drawn into those circumstances that a sovereign democratically elected government in europe would be denied the means of self-defense to me is an extremely suspicious presumption and it's one that the united should certainly not supported. >> thank you. steve hadley? >> i will make some quickpoint.

there is what i call that vietnam can see. that only the united states have the right policies, all would be right with the world. we don't have that kind of power and influence and the truth is that russia is different today because of it's own internal domestic realities virtually independent or in some cases in spite of policies that we have pursued. rush is a different place today than it was 15 years ago. it is true that there is no military solution to these kinds of problems and also no solution that does not have a military element. and that needs to be the nato and u.s. forces, not u.s. forces but ground forces, people on the ground, that is what we need to talk about. and it needs to be to help these countries defend themselves, i

would do it covertly rather than overtly, but it needs to be done. on the economic piece, the problem that came out in our strategy group is for every one that we made economically, vladimir putin has counters. and they have much more influence. this is what is tricky. how can we make the ukraine and economic success is actually russia is working to make it a basket case. >> this is tough. i hope these right, but i sometimes wonder how far the writ runs if at some point they might break up under the kind of pressure they are under. it's not bad weather, but it is hard to reverse climate change and i think that we need to find a way to get people talking about this as we step back in how russia has changed, how

europe has changed, and what is a vision going forward. because we are in new territory and i'm worried that we are not stepping back and look strategically at where we want to be and how we want to get there. >> thank you, steve. angela? >> i will make two points. on the question of information warfare, we are always going to be added disadvantage because we don't have this. but i think that we should do a better job in europe and the u.s. of just putting facts out there. there are too many news outlets that say people use the incursion or it is alleged word is alleged that russian tanks and equipment is going through and we know this stuff. we have the proof and i know that some people don't want to do that. and i think that we have to be part of this and i would talk

about the misfortune to read this blog and feel the stuff that they have put out about that, including very recently, we understand what has happened and i think that that has to be with no ifs, ands or buts. and i think that that's where you start. and my second point goes to the longer-term question of some of my colleagues have said what we see as part of his reactions what is happening it's not only that they are putting themselves forward in a new conservative international appealing to traditional stakes were we have traditional family values, but it's almost a revolt against this and obviously we all understand the what they need to do is talk about this. a lot of this is what is

appealing and they sort of don't want to be in the 21st century. so if he is in power for another 10 years as it likely. we have to think about where the next generations of people who are going to be coming in to power at some point when he's no longer in the kremlin. and we have to do everything that we can while we are still dealing with this crisis to build up longer-term and continual contacts with those who do not fear modernity. >> thank you and you get the last word. >> i think ambassador is the ambassador is going to get the last word because his climate change wisecrack was terrific and is going to be out there trending. and i bet it is already trending. so i just want to pick up on

something that angela just said which i think goes to the meta- point here which is we are together almost every day, it seems, on this subject. she made a very good point that the russian word for security means absence of danger. so if we want to emphasize and be under standards of vladimir putin, we need to understand where he sees the danger coming from. he sees it coming from the west and that is the only point of the compass from which the danger is not coming to russia. so what they want to see is basically the following. a modern economy and globalized economy. not being the poster child for this resource but a healthy population, which it doesn't have. and an open society, which it doesn't have.

and since it has 14 continuous neighbors, it should have 14 friendly neighbors. and in fact what it is doing is inspiring or engendering fear and loathing in 13 of the 14 and we know what the 14 says, loathing but aspirations for russian territory and we have to hope that these future leaders will recognize. >> thank you very much. i want to thank everyone who is here and i hope that for all of you in the room and certainly those watching on c-span, people believe an objective and serious nonpartisan discussion of issues and that is what the strategy group is about. nonpartisan discussion. if you'd like to know more, i

would say that the book is available on amazon.com. thank you very much to all of the panelists and the ambassador of denmark and estonia and lafayette. thank you all fo nominee

nicholas rasmussen to his confirmation hearing.

will come tong order. let me just say that the soon to be chairman of this committee, this is not my usual way of operation. i like to be on time. we got into a bit of a problem in the caucus, and i just wanted to say that to you/

-- to you. the committee will come to order. session to hear nicholas rasmussen to be as the director of the national counter resin center. center.erterrorism olson's resignation, it is my intention pending today's session to move this nomination quickly to the senate and seek his confirmation before our adjournment in december. mr. rasmussen has been the director since 2012. prior to this, he served from 12 as the senior director for counterterrorism at the national security council.

in terroristrsed threats to the united states and the growth of terrorist groups around the country. mr. rasmussen's service goes back to 1991, with a series of positions at the department of state, nsc, and nctc. mr. rasmussen, i enjoyed reading in the background materials for this hearing that public services part of your family. and i am pleased to welcome your family here who had been in public service as well. i speak for the vice chairman of the committee who regrets he cannot be with us today, and for myself, when i say that we need a full-time senate-confirmed director of the national counterterrorism center as soon as possible. not go into the threats to our nation, but they will go in to the record, and it is clear i think to all of us who deal in this situation with the

andmic state of iraq levan, we continue our efforts aq affiliates and other terrorist groups across the world. it is a real problem, and it is escalating. these groups now have safe havens in syria, libya, across other parts of north africa, and in many places online. the threat from isil and aqap pose a direct threat to the united states homeland, and from external attack and from directed and inspired lone wolf attacks from within the united states. needs to be at the front of our efforts to identify these attacks as it has done many times in the past. at the same time, the director is the national

intelligence manager for counterterrorism and the official in charge of government wide strategic operational planning to defeat terrorism. rasmussen, you have a big job before you. i have gone to the answers to the questions you have submitted. . see no problem whatsoever but it is a great pleasure to welcome you and your family here today. and i would like to ask unanimous consent to put into the record a letter of support for nick's nomination from admiralctc directors, ven, andmccra former national deputy security advisor juan serate. let me stop and welcome the nominee and ask the senator for

his opening statement. >> thank you, madam chairman, want tok, let me say i thank you for your many years of government service, the state department, white house, and at nctc, and i thank you for the time you spend for me the other day and your insight into the areas of interest we had an opportunity to talk about. i would like to welcome your wife, your parents. and all three of you are proud of the progress of his career, and i thank you for sharing him with the country, because it is invaluable. over the last 10 years you have focused primarily on analyzing the terrorist threat to our country and devising policies to address those threats. nctc will need your experience in the years to come. 13 years after 9/11 we continue to face al qaeda in afghanistan, affiliates in somalia, yemen,

syria, and now in the indian subcontinent. nigeria, in somalia, in syria and iraq, and the list goes on. these groups raise money by way of criminal acts, and in some cases state sponsorship. extremists with technical degrees special skills, and expertise building ied's. to includehters americans are exploiting local and regional conditions to train before returning home. here at home we faced the threat from violent extremists, who often utilize the information in connections -- and connections from online and plan smaller scale simple lots that are harder to detect. ,hese terrorists are capable well organized, well financed, and make asp are two attack u.s. persons abroad and at home. the threat is more distributed and complex than ever before.

we no longer have the luxury of focusing attention on one group or one region. to lead theg asked primary agency for integrating at analyzing all intelligence related to the terrorist threat, and you have your work cut out for you. this committee will try to provide you with resources you need to address three and keep our nation safe. the truth is we are going to have to make some local choices in years to come. nctc is a capable organization with excellent people. i fully expect you to lead and effect of agency under our watchful eye, but i can assure you that moving forward we are going to challenge you to improve the center and the search for efficiencies. tough going to ask th questions and ask you to be better, and i look forward to you giving direct and candid

answers. i think that chair and pledge on behalf of vice chairman chambliss and the side of the aisle that you cannot move too fast on this nomination for us. >> thank you very much. would you stand, please, mr. rasmussen? would you repeat after me, i, rasmussen, do solemnly swear that i will give this committee the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me god? [indiscernible] >> you agree to appear before the committee here, do you agree to send officials from the nctc when invited, do you agree to provide documents or any other materials requested by the committee in order for it to carry out its oversight and legislative response ability -- response ability --

responsibility, do you agree with [indiscernible] of members of this committee intelligence activities and covert actions rather than only the chairman and vice chairman? >> [indiscernible] >> consistent with past investments with national intelligence, will you promised you briefed the committee within 24 or 48 hours of any terrorist attack or attempted terrorist attack if requested by the committee? >> yes. >> thank you very much. please bc did, and we are interested in your opening statement. >> thank you, and chairman, members of the committee, thank you for considering my nomination to be the next director. i want to express my appreciate the efforts of the

staff. there's a tremendous amount of work that goes into their review to support any confirmation hearing, and i'm grateful. i would like to recognize and introduced i parents and my wife. their love and support means everything to me, and i am glad they are here with me today. as you remarked, i briefed this committee several times as recently as last week in my capacity as the deputy director. tos is my first opportunity appear in open session, and i truly welcome the opportunity. i'm honored by the president's trust in my ability to continue to serve international enterprise. the service came natural to me growing up in the washington area, as i had to look no further than my own family for examples. my father and my mother moved to northern virginia from wisconsin in 1952 so my father could pursue a career in public policy. he was a career federal employee beginning at agriculture or feel capitol hill for a junior staff

member on the house side and retiring 40 years later as the most senior curator official at the department of education. my mother was for a time at a big school teacher in fairfax county while playing an active role in our local church and serving for over 10 years on the board of the northern virginia community college. i one sibling who is an active officer will with two tours of duty in afghanistan and another works with local government in their facts and volunteers and he's community. his committees. anything i learned about public commitment i learn from my family. the long way to geoeye have to go as to serve as my father, but i'm currently on your 23. i started my career while a student at wesley and -- wesleyan and university, working on the korea desk. after finishing graduate school, i joined state as an intern just as the country was liberating

kuwait during operation desert storm. during my tenure at stake, i was given many opportunities, whether working on efforts to dissuade north korea for -- from pursuing nuclear ambitions. incareer took a sudden turn 2001 when i accepted a position on the national security council staff. my first day on the job was monday, september 17, 2001, six days after the attack. ince that day 13 years ago been focused for every day of marker on the nation's counterterrorism efforts. those include positions at the white house under bush and obama and at nctc.

over these years i have seen what i believe are vast improvements in our capabilities and policies. that said, challenges remain and there's much work to be done. this is what makes the work of so men and women atnctc central. that is what i would like the opportunity to lead them to serve a longtime them as their director. working with our allies and partners has made great strides in dismantling the al qaeda organization that attacked us. the terrorism threat we face continues to evolve. as the president said, for the foreseeable future, the most direct threat to america at home and abroad remains terrorism. committee understands an andility in the lev the middle east has accelerated the movement. the once global focus under osama bin laden is now being driven by regional conflict.

across these unstable regions we are confronting a little to do threats. from long-standing well-known terrorist groups, but also from newer and loosely connected networks of violent extremists who operate without regard to national borders or establish organizational norms. better than any audience i ever engage with understands that diverse and threat picture we face from al qaeda. that threat teacher includes other sunni terrorist groups, to isil, including shia groups, including homegrown violent extremists who live amongst us in the united states. we face a broader array of threats from a greater number of groups and actress than at any point since 9/11. come locating that our losses of collection as a result of an unauthorized disclosure, the spread of extremist messaging by

social media in different ways, and the need we feasted balance technology based analytic tools with people focused human eyes on antensive analysis if i'm confirmed, i look forward to working with and helping the community overcome these challenges. 10 years ago when senator susan collins and joe lieberman first put pen to paper in what would become the intelligence reform act of 2004, most in the country believed a second large-scale catastrophic attack in a home and was possible, even probable. today the threat we face is different from then, and i would argue we are equipped to respond to it then that we were in 2004. earlier this year, we were on it to host authors of that landmark legislation in our auditory. senator collins, you told the workforce there is no doubt that information sharing is far

superior to what it was prior to the passing of the law in 2004, and there is doubt the talented nctc has been making a difference. i can assure you the members of our workforce were beaming with pride and they heard your words. 10 years later, i believe we can declare your vision that the congress' vision has in fact taken hold. that vision called for an integrated workforce fully empowered with access to the right information and armed with the best training and tools. i believe that vision is growing stronger every day. we all know this is no time for complacency, self-satisfaction, either at ncntc or anywhere else. we understand that civilian challenges remain. the adversaries we face are persistent and so we must learn

and improve and get better every day. we must exceed their ability to attack us with our will to make certain they do not succeed. in the position i have as deputy director, i'm reminded of 9/11 and the threat we face every single day. if confirmed by the senate i would bring the focus and urgency born of that terrible day 13 years ago to everything i do as director. i would aim to ensure the best and brightest continue to fill our ranks, and i would aim to ensure they are equipped with tools and training they need to meet the threat. in my 23 years in government service, i worn a number of hats working in a number of different government organizations. no label means as much to me personally over that time as the of theember counterterrorism community. every day i'm privileged to work with truly outstanding friends and partners all across that nsa,nity come at fbi, cia, the defense department, homeland security, justice, state, treasury, state and local

partners, international partners, white house, and here on capitol hill, with you and your staff. the job for which i've been nominated demands for much, but i am thankful for the loving support of my family, my wife, parents, and i would like to take this opportunity to thank her and them publicly today. they've always been there to support me as i pursued my career. familyen part of the since its inception in 2004, even when serving president bush and president obama for several years on the nsc staff. i feel connected to their remarkable workforce at nctc, and its critical place within the intelligence community. there's no place in government i would rather serve. --man find stand, senators, chairman feinstein, senators, thank you for your support them and for considering my nomination to be its neck direct -- its next director. thank you. >> excellent.

thank you very much. in your written statement for the record, you wrote attacks either linked or in belgium oril canada, recent arrests in europe and australia, demonstrate the threat beyond the middle east farel, although thus limited in sophistication. if left unchecked, over time, capabilitiesil's to which were, and the threat the united states home and ultimately to increase. onnctc's viewd of the threat of isil to descend you can, please? >> i would be happy to. i think of the threat isil poses as being in concentric circles. because their capability is greatest in iraq and syria, our personnel they'll our greatest

at risk, particularly in iraq, what were embassy security is a serious concern. in front-line states around iraq and syria, jordan, turkey, syria, lebanon, saudi arabia, we worry isil has an ability to carry out attacks to identify and mobile no eyes -- mobilize personal against u.s. personal and interest. beyond that, the next worrying -- the next outer ring is in western europe, where the very language you cited in your question indicates isil looks at europe as a potential theater of operations. homeland, where we believe isil has aspirations over time to develop capability it would need to carry out a homeland attack. at this point we assess we are far more at risk presently of

attack from an individual homegrown violent extremist who may be inspired by but not necessarily directly by isil in homeland. the point about if left unchecked, we worried the longer and is left unchecked allowed to pursue and develop a safe haven, door that capability is allowed to grow to carry out attacks in each of those theaters i mentioned. >> thank you. i signed responses to our prehearing questions that you wrote you will be hiring more than 40 officers this year. it is my understanding in cddition to these 40, nct still has many vacant positions it needs to fill. the question is with respect to contractors, which we have some concerns about, how do you plan to fill the vacant spots at nctc? >> thank you, madam chair, for c receives from

this committee in our efforts to maintain the best possible work force. we are very grateful for that. the numbers you cite of 40 individuals we are looking to heart is your reflexively we call -- people who hire and work in the office of the director of national intelligence. nctc is a blended workforce which includes permanent country employees, but also detail personnel from other intelligence community, and not just intelligence, but other government organizations as well. that is the real life blood of nctc, the expertise, telling we get from other agencies. >> will the 40 b transfers, a mix, and if so -- >> 40 will be direct hire. where pursuing an effort to get our detail he numbers for the suggested.st we need to tell it from other partners.

all those partners are willing as strong supporters of nctc an enterprise. the challenge comes as you try to keep the numbers up. they had their own staffing needs and a time of budget uncertainty. they struggle to meet their own efforts to staff themselves. is a constant dialogue with them, a positive dialogue with them to make sure we can get talented officers from places like fbi, cia, and other partners in the intelligence community. >> thank you. senator burr? >> thank you, madam cherney. , the committee is charged with providing vegan oversight. a couple questions that really go in line with what the chairman had you rise and raise your hand and swear to. would you agree the committee, to conduct effective oversight, that we should have access to the intelligence products

produced by the intelligence community and in some cases be provided with the wrong reporting that contributed to that analysis? >> yes, and i believe in some cases it would make sense to have access to that reporting. >> will you commit to providing the committee complete and timely access to all products, reporting, and staff necessary to assist in our sponsor ability? >> yes. >> i will not get into staffing because i think you covered that with senator feinstein. earlier this week the institute of economics and peace raised its index. the report indicates that deaths from terrorism are at an specifically, the number of deaths after we did to terrorism is five times higher than it was in 2000, and we witnessed a 61% increase in the last year alone. would you agree the threat from terrorism is at an all-time high? as measured in the array, for

writing, and dispersion of terrorist threats across many different reasons, -- regions, the answer is yes. going to doctc about it? nctc place in carrying out planning in support of government is one that has us tied closely to the national therity council staff and policy develop process for pursuing strategies against -- on counterterrorism. we work with the national security council staff to of government plans to address our counterterrorism concerns in each of the theaters around the world, not just one single theater, as you would expect, senator. the effort to develop strategies against isil is particularly at an energetic pace now. is planning capability is

also brought to bear on the challenges we face, in africa, asia, south asia, every region you can think of. can city our job at nctc to make sure we are not leaving any holes in that fabric of strategy as we look across the challenges we face. while at the same time, try our ties in where effort needs to be most energetically directed. that would argue a lot of effort to be directed in syria and iraq. >> are you confident nctc can discover and are enabled to find plots in homeland? toi would say our ability detect and potentially disrupt a a complexving objective with a number of terrorist actors and a fair amount of communication, i would assess our odds at being good at

being able to detect and disrupt that kind of plotting. the more the plotting looks like what you and chairman feinstein talked about in terms of being an individual lone wolf actor, perhaps with no direct connection or even in direct connection to a terrorist group, a radicalized individual, that decreases pretty dramatically our ability to use .t. tools.l c it is hard to guaranty or give you high confidence that we would be able to detect that kind of attack. >> do think the administration or congress should do more publicly to let the american people know that the threat from terrorism in fact that it is growing, not the climbing? you.would agree with that is one of the reasons why

this hearing being in open session is such a good thing. the 9/11 commissioners during the past year, as they reviewed where we are this many years later, one of their calls was on the policy community to speak more often, or public a, about the threat environment we face. i would look to contribute to that in my own way from nctc. so much of what we do is it necessarily in close succession and with you and your staff, but there are opportunities where we particularlyectly, to the homeland aspects of the threat, which i referred to a minute ago and the the presence of violent extremists and its rate they pose -- and that threat they pose. >> in response to the committee questions, big data was one of the nctc biggest challenges. the united states government is struggling with that challenge. tc, it is a life or death matter. i'm concerned this issue does not receive the proper attention and resources at nctc.

can you assure us you will make this a top priority and that this effort will get the intention it needs -- get the attention it needs? >> you are right, and i commit to you to embrace this as one of my top priorities. on his way out the door, during his last couple of months of lsen directed a new office of data strategy and innovation to do a better job than we thought we were doing of organizing our short, medium, and long-term term vision in terms of how to make best possible use analytically of the data we have access to. some of that will also involve developing new technological tools, taking advantage of create efforts by dni to a new architecture for terrorism, intelligence information for the entire tell intelligence community. we hope to leverage the work at

across the i.c. keephope you will the committee updated on the progress. , madam chairman. first of all, congratulations on your appointment, which i think is an excellent one. i appreciate very much that the president chose to put a career expert in this final position, and i thank you very much for your generous comments about the that former senator joe lieberman and i played in creating the nctc. i do hope you will let this committee know if you encounter difficulties in getting detailees who are well qualified and experienced to come work at nctc.

i know it is very hard for other components of the intelligence community and the fbi to let go of some of their most talented to bets, but for nctc fully effective in these very dangerous times, it is essential that we achieve that goal of joining us by having those detailees. do not hesitate to come to the chairman, ranking member, any of us if you do anticipate problems in that area. >> i will. thank you. of theof the findings 9/11 commission was that border security and immigration were not seen as national security concerns prior to the attacks on our nation on 9/11/01. the 9/11 commission specifically found that 15 of the 19

hijackers could have been intercepted through more diligent enforcement of our immigration laws. as the acting director of the nctc, were you or any of your to scrap the president's proposal for immigration changes that he will announce tonight? were notknowledge nctc involved in any effort. i am not aware if elsewhere in the intelligence community there was such an effort, but not at nctc. >> when president obama created the 2009 guantanamo review task force to evaluate which be transferred or released from guantanamo, as wascall, the head of nctc

the executive director of that task force. is that correct? >> yes. position. held that olsen has told me when the decision was made to exchange what had become known for the release of sergeant bergdahl that nctc was not consulted in that decision. to your knowledge, was anyone at nctc consulted? >> my understanding is that in the context, in the process of moving the transfer of those detainees, there was a request ,or an assessment from the odi and such an assessment was prepared, by another element of the odi and not at nctc. >> and that was despite the fact that nctcc

was acting as the executive director of the commission -- of the task force? matt had that role in a previous time. in the current process, nctc is being asked to produce threat assessments of what impact on security the potential return of a detainee may have. that cannot happen in the case of the issue you are referring to. >> i just want to be clear on this. the normal process is for nctc to be involved in putting together the package that is used by decision-makers on how to classify the detainees. is that part correct? >> that is correct. >> in the case of the telegram nctc- the taliban 5, the

was not asked to put together a new analysis that went beyond the previous analysis, which, according to press reports, found that these detainees were too dangerous to be released. is that correct? >> we do not have direct involvement in the production of the intelligence assessment. >> thank you. i want to thank you for your willingness to serve in what is a 24/7 very demanding job, and i think we are very fortunate to have someone with your background and expertise. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you. >> it looks like this is going to be a tough vote. senator rubio? >> thank you, and i want to congratulate -- >> for tv, i was jesting. >> thank you for your service to our country, and congratulations on your appointment, and we look forward to moving forward quickly. that me ask you questions that are of interest to me and

everyone on the committee. the first has to do with the planned reduction in u.s. commitment to afghanistan and the growing concern that that would have implications in our ability to conduct effective operations in the region. there has been one success, the ability to erode core al qaeda presence in the fatah. if we lose territory, we could easily be in a position where many of those elements constitute, strengthen somewhere in afghanistan as the government is low longer capable of exercising a presence in that region. what are your thoughts on the current plans to draw down forces in afghanistan and the impact it would have on our counterterrorism efforts? as an community, we are also concerned about what potential effect the drawdown of u.s. forces may have on the ability of al qaeda to regenerate capability, particularly in the northeastern parts of afghanistan.

train and equip a competent afghan national security force is an important part of the effort to make sure that there is a capability to disrupt potential activity inside afghanistan. we will maintain as robust as possible and intelligence collection framework to allow us to continue to monitor, track come and if necessary disrupt al qaeda resurgence in that part of afghanistan or certainly in pakistan. it will be a more challenging and more difficult collection and environment than we face today. >> my second question has to do with iran. there's been talk about their nuclear ambitions and the sections against them. what has not been discussed is iran's is the world's leading sponsor of terrorism, and any economic growth and prosperity that would come about as result of the relaxation of sanctions i

believe would have an impact on their ability to expand their already robust sponsorship of terrorist. -- after terrorism. i would as you to share thoughts about what they might be what to grow and do in the future if in fact these sanctions are relaxed and have more access to global capital, more money, basically, to sponsor these operations. the willingness and ability of iran to support various shia terrorist groups has always been very high on the list of concerns of the counterterrorism community and the intelligence community. pathways to addressing that challenge has been to try to get iran out of the business of thinking that carrying out those kinds of acts advances their national interest , and ultimately they would see that as a self-defeating and not

advancing their interest. speaking personally, anything that puts us in a position where we are more effectively dealing with iran in a normal way would reduce the incentive for them to use that proxy network of shia terrorist groups that they do in fact have other disposal -- i have at their disposal. you're absolutely right. the capability of the terrorism apparatus sponsored by iran is something that is threatening to the united states not just in the region of the middle east but all around the world and potentially here at home. a priority in trying not to necessarily seek to defeat the terrorism apparatus and the battlefield as we have in our efforts against al qaeda but try to take them out of the business in some other fashion. that's how i would think about it.

there's no question as we watch sunni-shiabout how tensions play out that they are put at risk by terrorist groups, the focused on will continue -- that thetatement potential for any sort of sanctions or relaxations could be linked to their sponsorship of terrorism as a leverage to get them to abandon those sorts of rings. i cannot stay to the policy context in which we would relax. >> thank you, senator rubio. i have been ton, your office, the cia, the pentagon, and i've traveled .ecently there is the incredible quality

of people we have working for us. you are a exhibit eight today and i want to thank you. i'm honored to serve this country along with you and your colleagues. i hope you'll take that word back. >> thank you, senator. i appreciate that. here's my concern. you're focusing on threats and attacks, dealing with fires around the world. that your basic mission. we need to think more strategically. we cannot just simply kill these people and call it the solution to the worldwide terrorism problem. i remember from the 50's we had the containment strategy of george mccann and that really worked. it took along time, but it worked. 's strategy. kennan

i will urge you to work with think tanks, brookings, whatever, to work on this in addition to the military response. do you have any thoughts on that? is atrophic suggestion, senator. the expertise of how to carry out effective counterterrorism policy does not reside only with the government, as you alluded to. research organizations, think tanks not just in washington but all around the world, they have a role to play in helping us get this right. the strategy we try to help with nctc, and my answer to chairman wholeein, are typically of government strategies not just relying on intelligence or military but also trying to take the abilities and

resources would have across the government to try and produce the conditions that would, over time, eat away at support for terrorism and some of these locations overseas. at the same time, we all go into it understanding well those efforts will ultimately take years, if not decades, to play out and to reap the benefits of those types of strategies. in the meantime, you are left to handle a very difficult threat environment. >> i just want to make sure we are not simply putting out the fires. we also have to think long-term, it seems to me, or we are in for a 100-year war. >> exactly right, sir. >> this morning at an open meeting, nsa director rogers said there should be no doubt in our mind that our nation states and groups with the capability forestall our ability whether it is generating power or moving water and fuel.

how concerned are you about terrorist groups using their own capacity or what i call hackers for hire to attack our infrastructure? the cyber attackrious is threat? >> as i understand it, the threat is more acute from state thans at present individual terrorist or establish terrorists. isil has shown capability with the internet. >> it is something they have developed and can exercise. knowing that, we are looking for ways to be ahead of them both in our ability to defend our infrastructure but also in our ability to detect key individuals were engaged in a kind of activity to disrupt their activity. you alludedowden, to this, but isn't it true we've lost a lot of capability in some of theseing

groups because they have gone dark in part based upon their awareness that was given to them by the snowden revelations? that is compromised our ability to protect ourselves. you, notd agree with just the snowden disclosures but other disclosures of classified information and our collection capabilities have caused our adversaries to adapt, look for new ways to do business, look ,or new platforms, and go dark or just find new ways in an attempt to keep us in chase mode as they move from potential platform to potential platform. this is an ongoing challenge for the intelligence community. i know our colleagues at the nsa are particularly focused on this but you're absolutely right, sir. it is dangerous because intelligence is the first line of defense with terrorism. these are not people we can line

up the army or the navy and shoot. we need to know where they are coming and when. intelligence -- that is why it is so absolutely critical. >> i would agree with you, sir. >> thank you, senator. >> i was going to say senator warner. martin, excuse me. thank you foren, being here today and for all of your public service. as you can see, you have an enormous amount of respect from this body. i wanted to ask you, given your experience with the national counterterrorism center going back to its inception, it's clear there are few in the federal government with your and itse of the nctc mission. in your responses to unclassified questions from the committee, you've talked a little bit about that unique role.

analysis as of nctc outlined in the service to reform and prevention act of two thousand four. as well as the mission objections -- objectives assigned, i went to dig a little deeper if i can into the unique nature of the analysis that nctc aes relative to that done by number of other intelligence community agencies. isyou know, even though nctc primarily the government organization tasked to analyze terrorist organizations, there are several other agencies track and they analyze terrorist as well. can you articulate for us how the analysis is conducted by nctc truly unique compared to that done by the other agencies? inone element that puts nctc

a unique position to carry out the best possible analysis of terrorism information is our access to the full body of the terrorism information. that was the unique insight of the irtpa to bridge the domestic-foreign intelligence divide. an analyst at nctc will have available what is from overseasnce reporting as well as domestic law enforcement investigations here at home. that is not true about the every other elements. that would put nctc in a uniquely advantaged position. that advantage plays out more profoundly when you were talking about homeland threats with a bridge between domestic and foreign intelligence matters so much. i would not quibble at the talent, capability, or insight for most of my intelligence

community partners could bring to the analytical effort on some of our key challenges overseas. riod, for one example, the extended military involvement in afghanistan and iraq, the defense department, defense intelligence agency for their analysts were doing terrific work mostly informed by time on the ground and i would never do anything to suggest otherwise. it's access to information that makes the critical difference. the mostaracterize unique thing as being able to see a bigger picture from multiple sources and, particularly, talking about a combination of foreign and domestic. >> yes, i would. to questionssponse from the committee you discuss the growing importance of monitoring social media and exploiting big data and tracking threats and conducting analysis. in your comments, you mentioned technology could help "implement

privacy and civil liberties protection beyond the current basic safeguards already in place." could you elaborate on what you mean by that? and describe for us the shortfalls as you see them in the privacy and civil liberties safeguards currently in place. >> i would not so much describe it as a shortfall -- i guess what i was referring to with that answer, senator, the more we can do to automate and make cap and technologically the segregation of information, deletion of information, all the things we commit to do as part of our adherence to the attorney general guidelines, the more we can take the human element of that worry him and makes a mistake and inadvertently seizes something, retains a something that they did not have authorization to do, the more we can automate that through ourselves and give the ability to audit ourselves thereforetively, and

train more effectively, is what i was trying to get at. >> more about technology and implementation effectiveness than any sort of change and authorizations. >> exactly. on those rare occasions where we've had something go awry in terms of handling information, it has almost universally been a matter of human error rather than an intent to mishandle or misuse, or not protect, information. >> thank you again. i believe this completes the questions. i would like members to know that it is my intention to vote on this nomination as soon as possible when the senate returns. after be off the floor thanksgiving. any member should submit questions for the record by next monday. so we can have the answers by the time the vote is taken, please.

we will do our level best to move this just as quickly as we can, mr. rasmussen. >> i'm grateful and we commit to getting every answer back to you as quickly and expeditiously as possible. >> that's fine. cannot do better than that. thank you for being here, the hearing is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]