it is very memorable to be able to watch those programs again. thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> how did you come up with some of the topics? archie gets firebombed accidentally. semi-davis sammy davis junior kisses archie, the jeffersons move next door, how did you come up with some of those topics? >> as i said earlier, we were just a a group of hard-working writers, some men, some women, families. we read three and sometimes for newspapers today. we read, for example, the incidence of hypertension was higher in black males,

noticeably, seriously higher that was a great subject for john and his character on good times. .. attention to life in america for 1972, 3, 4 american family. >> host: next call for norman lear is bob in oklahoma.

>> caller: i enjoyed your work. in my 50s. i grew up watching all in the family, my parents were quakers and they were active in the civil rights movement. it was good entertainment. i have been politically active all my life. i am wondering, a candid question, do you think that some of the older folks, when i say old driving 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, do you think we could be more instrumental in bringing at end to cannabis prohibition during our lifetime so we can help rejuvenate the economy and environment all over the world? do you think we older people -- >> host: we got the point.

let's get an answer from norman lear. marijuana legalization. >> guest: solving the problem in our economy, i am not the economic maestro. >> host: should marijuana be legalized? >> guest: to the extent liquor is analyzed by think we can afford to legalize marijuana, yes. >> host: is there an issue you are focused on today? apolitical issued? >> getting money out of politics. that is certainly an issue. citizens united, overturning citizens united so that we know where the money is coming from corporations, billionaires'

can't write checks, we don't know where they came from. money out of politics, number one cause for concern, it would be to get money out of politics. >> host: where did the title "even this i get to experience" come from? >> guest: i did very well over the years making false the show's the teenage and i had a good deal of money at one time and invested it very poorly in businesses i was involved in and reached a time when this money -- i got the sense i might have lost this and so i went to my partner who made us as successful as we became on the business end. another company, they looked at

all of my assets and we had a meeting at 4:00 in the afternoon at a hotel in california and i learned i was in big trouble financia i had a son in law in new york who knew about this meeting, who called me that evening and asked what did they tell you? what did you learned? i told them what i just told you, the we were in deep trouble, we've been living in a place in vermont and he said ho? i am sure i said i feel terrible but evidently i said but running through my head is this thought, even this i get to experience. so the next morning i got out of the shower, my phone was ringing and it is my son-in-law john in

new york and he is calling to say i was thinking about what you said last night. i heard you say once that you wanted to be cremated. you got to promise me we don't really view, we bury you. he said why? he said because some day i want to take my children, your grandchildren to a stone that reads even this i get to experience. that was 20 some years ago or longer and how could i not -- this conversation, this book fair, even this i get to experience. >> host: did you go along with your son nazi adjusting to cure you going to be cremated? >> guest: at won't go that far with it. it i except for the title of the book. >> host: next call for norman lear, vicki in texas.

>> i want to thank your for your work at cochran music group. >> guest: i it love that. >> host: what is cochrane music group? >> caller: that company that has restored jazz and that kind of music to our public domain. >> guest: you work with country music group? >> guest: i had a great time as editor, i mentioned, i think about the kind of collaboration ahead in my life, the kind of help by head through all of this. that alan horn, the business heads, when i got into the trouble i described there was a young guy, allen, working under

the other two, and he came along, joined my company in the trouble it was in and helped turn things around with the other guys looking calm, we turned everything around over a period of years and gave as suggestions that we try conquering music and we brought out that label and several other labels with it and it was a great company and then he emerge, we marriage, it was his deal, with a much bigger company, village road show pictures from australia. village road show pictures, hal unfortunately passed, one of the most delicious men and he passed and i was not part of a giant

organization in love with concord music that the rest of them did not care that much about and eventually they sold concord music. the concord jazz labels that vicki so well remembers the night adored also be long -- it is still out there, stay with it, vicki but i am no longer part of it. i am deeply sorry to say. >> host: last call is from colorado. you are on booktv. >> caller: thank you very much for the body of your work, very much appreciate it. enjoying listening to your book on a possible.com and i'm about 10 chapters in. my question is have you heard from jerry lewis or anybody else with the interesting and pithy

commentss? >> guest: i have not. i have been asked about the don't suspect that i will. what i remember most about jerry lewis was the time he added to my life because i believe laughter does that and nobody ever made me laugh harder and the rest of it is just story. >> host: "even this i get to experience" is the book, norman lear has been our guest. thank you for joining us. live coverage from the miami book fair. beginning in just a second will be cornel west. his most recent book is "black prophetic fire," he will be in conversation with beacon press and later on cornel west will be joining a call in so you have a chance to talk to him, live

coverage from booktv. >> a journalist from w p tv channel 5 and vice president of the national black journalists association, thank you. >> i am a multimedia journalist at channel 5 news in west palm beach and vice president for the national association of black journalists, the miami for lauderdale chapter and the am very happy to introduce two special guests today. dr. cornel west is a prominent and provocative democratic intellectual, a professor of philosophy and christian practice at union theological seminary and professor emeritus at princeton university. the also taught at yale, harvard and the university of paris. graduated from harvard and obtained his a and b hd in philosophy at princeton. he has written more than 20 books and has edited 13.

he is best known for his classics race matters and democracy matters and his memoir brother west, living and loving out loud. he appeared frequently on the colbert report, cnn and c-span and he also made his film debut in the matrix and was a commentator on the official trilogy released in 2004, his latest book, "black prophetic fire" with a distinguished scholar chris the bushindorr prevents a perspective on six african-american leaders including frederick a. bliss, w. e. b. du bois, martin luther king jr. ellen baker, malcolm x and otto while barnett. examine the impact of these men and women in their ear ats and across the decades and rediscovers the integrity and commitment within these passionate advocates and all so therefore wines by providing new insights that humanize these

well-known figures cornel west takes an important step in rekindling the black prophetic fire so essentials in the age of obama. helen has been director of the beacon press since october of 1995. she pulled a master's degree in english literature from the university of virginia. she began her career in publishing and random house in 1976. acquisitions that beginning could get killed don't's the healing, national book finalist, the iron cage, one today, cornel west's "black prophetic fire" and anita hill at 3 imagining quality. cheese sayre eight years on the board of pen, new england, and is administrator of the hemingway foundation pen award. thank you for being you today. [applause]

[cheers and applause] >> thank you for that very warm miami welcome. it is a great pleasure to be here today with all of you and i have a greater honor of being in dialogue with cornel west. in addition to the introduction you just heard a i want to say that cornel west is working on two other books with us and one coming up soon is his addition of the writings of martin luther king jr. which will be called appropriately the radical king. that will be published on dr. king's birthday and you should all look out for that and his next book after that will be a

very important one, justice matters. we are looking forward to that as well. i am going to ask cornel west to talk briefly about each of the six figures he discusses in the new book and then to reflect on how their legacy impacts us today and that i will turn the floor over to questions. michele alexander said that "black prophetic fire" was a fascinating exploration of the black prophetic genius and fire. i would like to start by asking you how you define "black prophetic fire" and then we can talk about each of the figures. >> thank you for that question. i would like to begin briefly by saluting personnel, my publisher, very blessed to work with james baldwin. the same as james baldwin, so many other talented figures and

i would like to salute president petronis and mitchell kaplan. those of the two leaders. 31 years, 31 years is a beautiful thing. and that collaboration and black prophetic fire. i want to begin by saying i am who i am because somebody, somebody cared for me. we need to and the baptist church, willie cook and vacation bible school teacher. these people provided and lived experience and answer to the voices for questions.

how does integrity facebook freshen? how does honesty face deception? how does decency face in salt? and how does virtue meet force? integrity, honesty, decency and a sense of virtue in the face of what? trauma, stigma, i come from people who have been terrorized, traumatized for 400 years in the united states, so when we talk about frederick douglass, we talk about w. e. b. du bois and ella baker and malcolm or martin, talk about folks who belong to integrity, honesty, decency, a sense of the frigid, telling the truth, expose lies and do it with love in their heart, compassion in the face of catastrophe. we abuse people, wrestle with the catastrophic, not just

problems, is not just the negro problem but catastrophe visited on black people. the question is prophetic fire response to that catastrophe, we have a deep sense of trying to tell what truths and most importantly willingness to pay the cost. sacrificing popularity for integrity, sacrifice feeding in for bearing witness and i am very proud to be a small part of that great tradition of great people in this ferguson moment, we need it more than ever, more than ever. [applause] >> you begin the book with frederick douglass. really interesting choice because he was a very complicated guy, wasn't he? tell us about his bearing witness and a.at which he

glossed sight of that. >> it is always on fire. . tubman 19 times, in the belly of the beast. david walker, he is a dead man 9 years later in boston. what a bounty on his head. willing to tell that kind of truth, vicious forms of evil in this society, not just white supremacy but spills over, to indigenous peoples, coordination of working people, anti-jewish, anti-arab, anti catholic, all of those part of our history but white supremacy sitting at the center. frederick douglass is the most eloquent picks slave in the history of the modern world.

by eloquence i'm talking cicero and eloquence, wisdom speaking in the face of catastrophe. there is nothing like him. he is part of the american imperial machine and his relation to haiti and the dominican republic and my critique, it is hard to be on fire for a long time because you have 1860's 7-65. he had 30 years to live. malcolm died at 39, malcolm got at 39, ellen baker was going to get to that. will was on fire her whole life. it is hard to be on fire your whole life and leno's that because we live in the age of the sellout. and 20 and 30, now you look at them and their well adjusted and even discerning what is going on with the fire in ferguson.

and discern what they're going on, the get freedom fighters like ashley yates or alexis templeton and tory russell and brother of wiley, right now in the belly of the beast in mississippi, ferguson. >> let's jump to lighten up wells in fact. she was an extraordinary woman and i discovered so much about her. don't think the lot of people know much about. >> i wish her name was well-known. and to the degree to which she was and a red hair telling the

truth about american terrorism. we have a lot of talk about terrorism since 9/11. all americans feel unsafe, he does for who they are whether it is blackened and erica for 400 years. to be hated for who you are. we have an 9/11 flight initiative. it happens every week. happens every month, happens every year, it is not something that happens one time and everybody gets afraid. would it idle wells do? booker t. washington and the boys were arguing about education and civil rights, she was confronting american terrorism, lynching, the rock face of the american nation state with courage and they ran her out of tennessee, put a bounty on her head. if not for t. timers fortunate in new york, they still hunted her down in new york and she had to leave the country and go to britain and she came back with her classics, got something to say about the underside, the

night side of america, terrorism at the center, jim crow and jane crow. in our textbooks they call it segregation. we are talking american terrorism, for two days it was a precious black man or black woman or black child hanging from a tree, the southern trees at the great billie holiday singing with such power and the jewish brothers writing the lyrics. it was a serious struggle, she organized black women and a black woman's club. we need to know much more, the classic crusade of justice. we need to know how she was able to sustain -- she is a sunday school teacher in chicago. she led the club music from chicago but was also missed treated as was the case with every individual in this text.

many black people -- when you are on fire in that way talked to hate yourself, believe you have the wrong hands and lips and noses and hair texture, believe you are less beautiful, less intelligent, less moral, and black folks have been like that for hundreds of years. and they try to say don't be afraid, don't be intimidated, don't be scared. and mobilize one of history in their backs up. she was misconstrued by that. including w e boyce himself. but all the human beings are cracked vessels, we try to humanize across the board.

i know wells, i wish she was in the house hold, she was a household word. >> maybe it will be soon. >> so many voices, raising their voices. what does it cost? >> bender my bed. >> i thought it was every bed. indeed, very important to have these women voices. they want to tell the truth and bear witness. brothers too. >> tell us since we are talking about sanitized, tell us about martin luther king and his -- what do you mean by that? >> you mention his name, it is like john cold frame and knee

nazi moan, just got to pause for a moment. how, in the face of so much hatred and contempt could he do shout so much love, the face of so much terror? he is in the paddy wagon in the 1960s the get him in the dark with a german shepherd coming get him every moment. and in readsville prison, looks like martin had a nervous breakdown. one word to say, this is the price we must pay for the freedom of our people. that is why we are talking about when we talk about martin luther king. he is the product of a tradition, comes out of a rich tradition, brother moses is in arizona somewhere. he understands that. what happens to martin luther

king jr.? he gets sanitized and sterilized because that much black glove and fire is always a threat to america. americas misunderstands black rage as always being connected to revenge. it can be connected to black love. this is what love looks like in public, tenderness is what feels like in private. he was a tender man too just like malcolm. he was a sweet man. but he had a deep commitment to justice. when he died 72% of americans disapproved of him. 55% of black people disapprove of martin when he died. everybody loves him now that the worms got him. the fbi said he was the most dangerous man in america. how come? so much love. so much fire. why was that he was unpopular at the end? a critique of empire, the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, he was telling the

truth, vietnam, trying to organize all poor people beyond civil rights, adding human-rights, and talked about in 64 going to the united nations, bringing america to try for the violation of human rights of black people. that is the marvin it scared folks. and understandably so. when you are working at that level of love and fire it would be very difficult to embrace -- you have to embrace at a cost. it is radical. >> we turned into santa claus. >> exactly, turned him into an old man with toys in his bag, everybody can't wait to see him. the same to nelson mandela but that is another text for another time. marvin, this radical king would keep track of the centrality of

the love commitment and compassion and willingness to pay the costs. this was part of the challenge of the intergenerational. is a love letter to the younger generation. i am passing from the scene. i don't need to be center stage. tell that to al sharpton. you don't need to be center stage. there is something called grassroots leadership, indigenous leadership in these contexts. get out of the way of the camera and let the young folks speak, let them tell their truth. you stand alongside them. we go to jail when we go to ferguson. we want the young folk to know some of us old school folk, and we love them and love and deeply. we might not understand everything but we are in solidarity with them even as we want to respect and protect and correct them. we stand alongside them like

cold frame allowing eric dolphin to play, cold rain could have been center stage every performance. yet -- what the young voices in. come john, see what i'm talking about in terms of what it means to tell the truth but also make room for the young folks coming through because so many of them have been unloved and uncared for and unattended to and i have been so loved and cared for and attended to for three lifetimes. got the shiloh baptist church at yale and princeton so it is a matter of keeping the caravan of love for the love train curtis mayfield sank about. get ready, don't need a ticket to get on this love train. but are you ready for the love train? ..

everybody is a star. that ain't no joke. everybody. everybody is a star, not just beyoncé. everybody is a star. >> some of these stars, start lining up at the microphone because we will let you ask some questions. i will ask one more while you get in line. in. in fact, one of the characters i was intrigued by was ella baker. in fact, i think what you were saying about not being center stage was really ella

baker's mo. >> sister barbara ramsey, one of the great of our day, we live in the age of ella baker's. a relation to occupy wall street. in particular charismatic, believed like a jazz orchestra did, to raise all the voices, not one at the center, no head negro in charge who could be murdered or co-opted. you bring all the voices. as executive director of kings organization and the voices of stokely, michael, diane nash, a wave of others. ella baker was a democratic activist, a democratic activist, but she believed the centrality of grassroots because the meant to t5 the mental capacity and ability of those every

day people, those james cleveland called ordinary people. as you access their ability and capacity, you do not have to have just one leader representing all black people and all brown people, usually to be co-opted. and once you co-opted or murder, lo and behold depression, disorientation, and the possibility of those capacities in the abilities of ordinary people to overlook. ella baker is someone we have to catch up with. she is ahead of us, and she died, of course, working closely with my precious puerto rican brothers and the liberation movement. she was cosmopolitan, international, always at a grassroots level, and there

is nothing wrong if people think you are charismatic, but you must use your charismatic as a form of service not a form of conspicuous consumption that makes you center stage as an individual rather than part and parcel of the group. that is why count basie was always with the group. him projecting himself as some individual. he understood there is no talent without the group. we could go on and on and on mama coal and sister maria here, too. >> okay. let's. >> okay. let's start with the questions. thank you, on that high note >> thank you for being here, thank you for continuing with the struggle. my name is paul fletcher. you know you know my dad arthur a fletcher. >> from kansas? >> yes. >> yes. >> i just want to mention

that, though. absolutely. >> i was skimming i was skimming through your book and noticed one of the sections that i definitely have concerned with i read in the new york times it was $60 trillion that the banks used to launder arms and drug money from the cartel and selling arms to the iranians and no one went to jail, nobody went to jail, and yet jail, and yet we are going to jail for petty drugs. and i am glad you mentioned, , but when i tell people $60 trillion they still look at me like him talking about something that cannot be imagined. i'm like, yeah, it's hard to believe that when this economy is for trillion dollars and we have 60 trillion being stolen. and nobody. too big, they said, to go to jail. >> that was in the book,

though, book, though, brother. >> that was in the new york times. >> outcome of the times? i thought somebody snuck something in my text. i got you. i understand. >> in the book you start out in the beginning talking about no one went to jail before the catastrophe of 2,008. >> all of the crimes committed on wall street, insider trading, market manipulation to me are absolutely right. the jamie diamond calls at the white house and makes a deal. they get caught straight to jail. that that is a criminal justice system that is in some ways criminal, that is in some ways criminal. it is true. if you talk about rule of law for four people, let's have will of law for all people. for wall street if we have it for main street. what jane austen would have called constancy.

increasing tuition, interest rates for students, still out of control. the banks treated that way and students another. which group is more important for the future of the country, the student or the bank? what are we talking about? priority, not a matter of hating on rich people. some rich people can do the right thing in my view. i will fight for their right to be wrong. i'm a libertarian about these things that we have to tell the truth in regard to how warped our criminal justice system really is. you know michelle alexander's great texts of the new text the new jim crow. zero, absolutely. >> thank you for being here. my question is not about the

case, the fact, verdicts, but what do you think martin luther king would say about the reaction and protests and ferguson? >> from the young people themselves? >> what i am saying is, maybe how i feel, martin luther king stood for peace and peaceful protest. i am wondering, what do you think he would say about what is going on there. >> i see what you are saying i can speak on behalf of martin, but based upon his life, his work, his witness, he would call for resistance, resistance, but it would be nonviolent resistance. that is the kind of whether he was. resistance but nonviolent resistance, which is to say, he would not go to ferguson and say, we have got to cool

things off. the cool things off you end up in a deep freeze. the challenge has always been how do you channel your rage into love and justice rather than hatred and present? that is the question, and that is the question martin luther king was wrestling with and answered it with nonviolent resistance. i think, in fact, you are right. keep in mind for my calling for peace and calm is not downplaying the violations that have been taken place, not just in ferguson, every 28 days, every 28 hours a precious gem brother is shot by police or security guard. this is the tip of an iceberg. you can't go in and say we are concerned about the violence of the young folk cannot deal with the violence of the system. and martin luther king would

want to accept that. but like myself he was at jesus loving free black man who put love at the center. america ought to be grateful in fact, in some ways america ought to see black people and give them a standing ovation. yes. all this hatred, contempt, and still dishing out the wonders about love. what is it? sending the contempt back and how long will that tradition line. america, america, i'm praying for you. you are in a world of trouble. >> is true. it's true. >> i was moved by your lament that ida b wells is not a household name.

i'm interested. i am interested in hearing your thoughts about the importance of the intergenerational transfer of knowledge of the struggle, basic knowledge of history to the sustaining of black prophetic or even to spark new fires. >> that is such a profound a profound question and is very much what this book is about venture not just for versus black folk that human beings all around the country. we live in a whole world driven by big-money. on the money is very much about the erasure of memory and historical connection. all are confined to the present. fleeting pleasure, you see,, you see, not the attention to the things that matter. and this is especially true

for young people. we live in a timed our music is still dominant. all they have is music. and it is so thin coming from the oligarchs that control recording, radio, video, live performance. it is rare to get a group that sounds a sweet and mellow. there is no group among young people that sing of collectivity,, no band other than roots on the national level. how come the young folks go to school with no arts

program. it is a vicious cycle. i don't have i don't have access to imagination and critical intelligence through the arts. some of them some of them can't sing in tune and still make a million dollars. net king cole turns over in his grave. i come from a people that were concerned about getting it right, and they saying the notes because souls were predicated on what you got those notes right in that church are on the block or in the club, but now with the corporatization of music the same way our universities are corporatized and schools are corporatized, integrity, pushed to the margin, just getting over the 11th commandment, thou shalt not get caught. that is will we are teaching our young folk.

get over by any means, just don't get caught. that is a sad thing. >> given the universal human challenge of preserving treasures and earthen vessels what comfort do you have for aspiring prophet who seek to raise their voices in a way that will not contradict the four principles that the boys highlighted in your text. >> what a wonderful group. miami-dade college. every time i count me found out got this good stuff for me. every time i come. i'll put it this way. >> but you're here now, though. you're here now. i think every generation that takes people who are

full of fire, love, fire, love, compassion, willingness to pursue what i call the way of the cross is a christian. there have to be enough examples around. a wonderful line. examples are the go karts of judgment. young folks primarily see marketeers everywhere they go. sometimes not enough good example. now they are more entrepreneurial. so forth and so on. wu-tang. it will obtain clan got it right, didn't they, crane. cash rules everything around

me, but it does not have to go me. one can be old-fashioned. and i do think young folks are hungry and thirsty and that ferguson is the pick of an iceberg. they are tired of the old models of the marketeer. give me something real. that is what young folks are saying. they want to see the real thing. the host of others. i have six of them here, and this is just the peak of this wonderful tradition. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> i wanted to ask you in light of obama's immigration speech on thursday can you comment on how well or not wealthy did when he talked about this marginalized

group. >> i appreciate that question. one, we have to recognize just like abraham lincoln in fredericton t5 frederick douglass and philip randolph , our dear brother barack obama was pressured i the magnificent wave of activism of young immigrant brothers and sisters from all around the country. i was blessed to be a small a small part of it. we marched in front of the white house. it looked like we had the chance of a snowball in hell at that time. it took him a while to do it political cock elation. he did not want to do it before the election. he's a politician like any politician. we understand, brother barack. i applaud what he did yesterday. i think he should have gone

further, but we benefit, health care benefits, other kind of benefits, pay taxes and no benefits. there something wrong about that, something deeply wrong about that. he took the first step. of course he will get a firestorm. he will get that if he is singing out of tune in the shower. so what, that ain't new. what, that ain't new. in the sky is blue and grass is green. take a stand. because of part of my criticism is that he tends to punt on second down rather than fourth-down. he gives into quick, not enough backbone, backbone, but i was glad to see what he did and that we will keep the pressure on to make sure immigrant brothers and sisters are treated in such t5 but i say this, i don't like the fact that people talk about america as a nation of immigrants which overlooks our indigenous brothers and sisters, you see.

that is not true. immigrants have immigrants have played a fundamental role in the shaping of america, but there were some folks who were already here when they landed. they don't need they don't need to be in the room for us to be truthful about that and then there's the state t5 then there is the distinction between voluntary and involuntary immigrants. we laugh. violation. i don't know. i have not found out, but in voluntary immigrants, that is a different thing. hitting the ground, jamaica, the hitting the ground moving. haiti, they hit the ground moving, what great people they are. different circumstances. don't put it in the same category.

some put it in the same category. thousands of bones in the bottom of the atlantic ocean that will remind us of that immigration track of those precious dignified africans who came here and encountered a slave auction, , and that is also what we are dealing with for ferguson, already criminalized before we got here and still look at too many of our precious young black people as if they were criminals before they had done anything. true for brown, but especially for black. i appreciate that question. i applaud him this time. i time. i applaud him. zero, yes. absolutely. >> we have time for one more >> my name is louis armstrong. i i heard you say something earlier about the 400 years. what i want to ask you is those 400 years you are

talking about, is they the same 400 years of genesee's 1513 or some other time. >> in the biblical text. >> yes. >> i got i got to ask that. >> creative imagination, my brother. appreciate it. i appreciated. it is difficult for me to make that kind of late an hour late, modern time to some of those deep truth told that shape my own position and therefore i would never want to make any kind of direct parallel. i read the biblical text in a spirit. i focus. i keep track of what is in that text in the way of keeping track of the love and justice. it does not

justice. it does not really spillover into the particular years and parallels. it is more the love and justice that i am focusing on, but you stay strong. absolutely. absolutely. >> thank you so much, cornell west, such a wonderful conversation. i wish it could go on and on. at mac and you are watching book tvs live coverage of miami book fair how that miami-dade college. for 17 years we have been coming to cover this festival. we broadcast from chapman hall where a lot of the nonfiction authors appear. that was cornell west, of course. he will be he will be here in 45 minutes to an

hour doing a call in with us as well, so you will have a chance to a chance to talk. you can see part of the street fair on the scene. the festival encompasses several blocks. we take up a little bit of the corner of it, it, but we have 20 hours of broadcast and 25 authors. the full schedule is available at book tv .org. follow us on twitter as well if you want behind the scenes pictures. pictures. finally, you can follow us at facebook, facebook .com/book tv. because of the wind we moved from our out dorsett and are on the c-span bus. hector tovar is our guest. here is the book. kind kind of hard to see the title, but it is deep down dark. what is your book about? >> the famous chilean miners who were trapped underground for 60 days in 2010.

>> when in 2010 did 2,010 did that happen? >> october of 2,010 trapped at the bottom of this copper and gold mine between 700 meters of direct down. the first two weeks they were slowly starving to death and then they were miraculously found but had to spend another ten weeks waiting to be rescued. >> the mine is located in northern chile, town that is 500 miles north of the driest desert on earth operating for 120 years. they worked at the bottom of a spiral highway 98 degrees, 90 percent humidity, and the mine collapsed and trap them. the only way out was a spiral highway. >> and was it gold? >> gold and copper.

>> when they got trapped, what trapped, what happened exactly? was there an explosion? >> a massive explosion. the structure of the mountains gave way. it was way. it was like an earthquake underground the way the men described it. the stone walls began to undulate. there were explosions. another told me it was like listening to a machine gun fire at them. so they were trapped below. it was it was like basically living a massive collapse underground. they had enough food for 25 men to last two days. as the days went by they began to ration. they lived on a single cookie a day and then a a cookie every two days along with a spoonful of tuna as some dirty industrial water

was trapped with them and they gradually began to die. they could hear drills coming for them in the stone caverns, so the drills started coming down, but they kept missing them. they lived this existential tortured two weeks waiting to be rescued, found even. >> no one knew they were alive for two weeks. >> they believed they would be dead. many fathers, grandfathers, trapped in total darkness, the lamps of their helmets began to go out after a few days until they found a way to recharge them. the second day they began to pray, he rallied them. he said, we should pray. he got to his knees and in a speech will of expletives said it was not fair, we needed to pray, and from

that day forward they held a kind of mass every day at noon just before the eight and prayed for deliverance. >> how did you get access? >> they were trapped down there for ten weeks. ten weeks. they knew they would be rescued, pulled up in this capsule the lined by t5 designed by the chilean navy and nasa. before they come nasa. before they come out they have one last meeting underground and degree, we will share the proceeds of this collectively. no one will sell a separate deal. when they finally get above ground they hook up with the biggest law firm. that law firm calls new york literary and they contacted me and i was the person who got the exclusive access. access. i spent the next three years traveling. interviewed all 33 men. many tears were shed because

the world does not know, but a lot of these men were for years row can psychologically by what happened to them. tortured underground by this rumbling mountain for ten weeks, and ten weeks, and it ate away at their sense of self, dignity. i saw videos of them while they were still trapped in there were not the same in i had interviewed. it looked battered. they spent a lot of time recovering from that in the years after. >> they are all alive. that is the great miracle. they all made it out. a lot of people ask me, how did you make this a tense read when we all know the end? the answer is, this is, this is a story about who these men really were. a family man, most of them. many had pregnant girlfriends, pregnant wives. they went down to a

dangerous place to work to make money to feed their families. this book is about their lives and how they fought to get back to their families. to me it is very comparable to the odyssey. a book about family, odysseus trying to get back home to his family. these men go through an odyssey in the and odyssey in the stone, and the mountain, trying to get back to their families. >> divorces or anything traumatic happen? >> even while they were still trapped there were family dramas going on because after the 17th day of line was lowered, a phone line and letters of us of a began began contact, correspondence income falls. some of some of them got back together with their divorced wives because the wives show up at the mine, want mine, want to show solidarity with their ex-husband and the kids and start corresponding, one of

the men actually got back together with his ex-wife. many of the men who were just dating their girlfriends while they were trapped ended up getting married with them and so yes , there is also the famous minor who became infamous because his wife and his mistress fought on the surface. this is a tale at length in my book. how they fought, the two women on the surface. ..

drillers who are ordinary working stiffs, drillers are famous for being that a committee usually drill holes looking for minerals, and the drilled hole looking for head and found these minors through 2,000 feet of snow. the story is all about them. and on the surface to try to get them back. there are many villains in the story and one is the general manager of the mine who was in the mind before it collapsed. blamed -- were very poor, there was no escape, no emergency escape. they have limited food supplies,

they almost starved to death. and i interviewed him at wang -- finos he is the villain of the story and spent his life trying to redeem himself. >> host: what is he doing? >> guest: continuing to work in mining but it's much nicer to his employees, a much better boss, more concerned with safety. >> host: what are the 33 doing? >> guest: they have gone back to work, most of them. some are retired, some were already in their 50s which is kind of volts for a minor and actually had to go back in underground mining that again, i describe this in the end of my book, one miner in particular a few months after being rescued from the san jose mine has to go back underground and the first two days are an encounter with his nightmares of being buried

alive. and a short while, and they were working underground. and rick they had got rich from the movie rights, and starring antonio banderas, hopefully of the book does well, more than they have already. >> host: it keeping the name deep down dark? >> the film will be called the 33, the 33. it stars antonio banderas as the man was the dominant figure underground, someone low in the mining hierarchy who became a very inspirational figure, rallied the men to pray, he often would have very sharp mood swings, he would get very depressed, he would fight with the other miners. so mario is the dominant figure,

there's a female lead in the movie who is based on a person in my book named marie yet, the sister of one of the miners and she organized the camp of families on the surface to fight for the men below and she will be played by juliette bentos. >> host: are they close? >> guest: i would not say they are close. they are bonded by their experience, by the fact that no one else in the world knows what they have been through accept them. a share this experience of being buried underground. having become world famous, they became famous together. they went to disney world, went to london, jerusalem, they saw the holy land. imagine going from being buried alive and thinking the world will forget about you and you will die in the dark of hunger to becoming a world celebrity,

being shown the world. some of the complex took place underground, continued on to the surface world. nominally the boss underground, once the accident happened, the collapse happened admitted to me he did not know what to do, not much he could do and surrendered his authority and set i am no longer in charge, and i am not the boss here. double vote on what we do and a lot of men thought that was an abdication of responsibility, and also someone, people who read the book will see is a controversial figure for the miners. >> host: the castle they were rescued from, was it remarkable that people in the states were watching this happen aris? is that remarkable in a sense? >> oh yes. 1.2 billion people around the

world sought this. and chili and rescue work, a man who is a mining rescuer who goes in like an astronaut and has been training the way astronauts are trained and submarine rescuers and 2,000 feet below. the whole world is watching and when they come, there through a stone cavity which is 26 inches in diameter and they are all alone like 30 or 40 minutes so before the world saw them come up they were alone in the stone cocoon, stone capsule. many of them said their lives flashed before them. everything that happened in the mind the days they were trapped, the day they met their wives, the children, like being born. many believe what was happening to the men as they came to the cavity was the childbirth and so yes, that is what those men were

going to do. >> host: they send down anxiety relieving pills for the men before they took the trip home? >> guest: they did. they tried to calm down. he had his polls taken by one of the rescuers and it was raising. he was just so nervous and scared and they realized, you couldn't be calm at that moment and picked one of the strongest men, and submarine rescue they choose the fittest men to go first. >> where is that capsules today? >> was on display at the regional museum in the desert.

and much memorabilia. >> host: the book is deep down dark, the gentle story of 33 men buried in the chilean mine. and the miracle that set them free. we are out here in miami on the c-span bus and the miami book fair coming on outside of us. up the escalator is chapman hall where we have been broadcasting live all day and the next live coverage of norman lear talking about his book "even this i get to experience" is being introduced now. >> is an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the 2014 miami book fair international. we're grateful for the support of the night foundation. ellen degeneres sponsors. and please join me in thanking

everyone for the generous contribution. [applause] >> at the end of this session there will be time for questions and answers. it is quite important for you at this moment in time to silence your cellphone. now it is my pleasure to welcome our introducer of today's speaker. [applause] >> today's speaker! [cheers and applause]

>> are we on here? >> we are on. go carol. >> i watch this inspiring crazy man for 29 years. >> she has watched this crazy inspiring man for 29 years. >> that is why i got the energy. >> led the microphone go. >> he is the most loving, wonderful man that i have ever met. at dermott? he is right there.

>> her husband. >> i was at people for the american way for 20 years, i think. >> president of the people for the american way when we needed a president most for several years and did the best job in the world. >> host: that was very sweet, thank you. wife with norman is never dull. i learned that early when i became ceo of the organization because we were sitting at the board table, 30 members of the board around the table and i lost my story. i know my story because you got ready to leave and you turned to me and started singing my sunny valentine. >> that will end the board

meeting anytime. >> i didn't quite know how to respond but one more story, he doesn't like to the board. board meetings bore him sometimes especially when we are talking about financial matters. he made it all away through. he came out and wanted to do something interesting if you can remember it this. he saw a later trey and tipped it up. he picked it up off of the cable, lifted it up in his hand and went walking through the lobby of the waldorf-astoria at and said cookies, cookies. your first question. which gets a hat? >> the half when i was writing

15, 18 hours today maybe as long as 40 years ago i would pick my scalp and my wife walked in and threw a hand on my head and said don't take this off. it was a little boating hat and i lost it one day riding on the beach in mexico with the daughter on horseback, and came back and was panicked. it was gone. it was gone. for two days i was without a hat, we were flying to paris as it happened and the first thing i did was go to the hat andmaker in paris. i had three left. a lot of years ago. >> humane know that people for

the american way is fighting for the religious right and the changes their influence has made in our american life. [applause] >> i want to ask you about how you feel about where we are now end the fight the we are fighting now and what is it to you and the reality of having the religious right very close to being in control? >> most people don't see it that way. if they are close to being in control. i would start, i am not disagreeing with you. they are an element, i feel, of a culture that could take as 180 degrees from where we started.

like david eisenhower, i am not a republican, but dwight david eisenhower who was, warned us in his farewell address about what he called the military industrial congressional complex. the word congressional was eliminated from the speech that in the draft he wrote, it was there. we know it now has the military industrial complex. i see us, what he warned us about was the confluence of elements of our culture that could come together and threat and us seriously and he saw a war machine building which went deep into all parts of our culture. so talk about military industrial complex, you are

talking about thousands of companies across the country who are making the smallest -- elements of a complex of larger organizations that are billed to fight a war. this is dwight eisenhower. i have often said to leadership of people of the american way, a post -- i didn't have the idea then, why don't we adopt, since the republicans do not -- how many people were running for the presidency when mitt romney succeeded? must have been seven or eight or nine running for the presidency and we saw all of those debate, 30 or more debate, there wasn't one mention of dwight david eisenhower, the guy who led us

when we won world war ii which i was proud to have served, not a mention ever and he ran the country successfully for eight years. he missed a lot of things. he was not perfect. i never met the individual who was perfect. the gay and lesbian issues, he couldn't count on dwight eisenhower's presidency on a number of issues, you couldn't count on dwight eisenhower and his presidency but where this system of roads, i forget the expression, our highways across the country and our roads, his administration, two, eight years was responsible for the beginning of, he wasn't a heavyweight with the mccarthy

hearings, and joe mccarthy was a threat. team missed something, but we prospered in those eight years and he left us with this special message, be aware there is building in our country and military-industrial complex which i see as feeding wars all over the place, and resulting in the 1%, and 99%, i don't have to tell you about, we are all living with, which derives, i think, from that complex. i am answering what questions? >> answering one that can be answered. i wasn't holding my knife right. to the book for a minute, and

her lodged. >> may i read something from the book? >> i think you may. >> just so you get a better sense, even this i get to experience, i feel that way about this, look at that, the glorious faces, i will tell you something about why you are here. 71 said it, with two pockets and the first pocket should be a piece of paper which is written, i am dust and ashes, i am the proverbial grain of sand on the beach of life and the other pocket, the piece of paper on which is written for me the

world was created. so i want you to know that all of you are here because i woke up this morning. [applause] >> that is what you are doing here. here for me. and everybody else for each of you. so this is how things began for me. when i was a boy i thought if i could turn the screw in my father's head sixteenth of an inch one way or the other it might help him to know the difference between right and wrong. i couldn't, of course. ultimately he and i had to pay a serious price for his confusion. in late june of 1931 just out of

third grade, a month away from turning 9 i was eagerly looking forward to my first experience at summer camp. a role printed with norman lear sat on the kitchen counter waiting for my mother to cut it up and so it into the close i was taking to camp with me in a few weeks. meanwhile, my father was about to take a plane to tulsa, then my friends in chelsea, mass. knew anybody who had flown anywhere. it had only been four years since charles lindbergh's through 33-1/2 hours in his single engine spirit of st. louis to get from new york to paris and the rare plane spotted in the sky had us kids chasing around the streets yelling lindsay, lindsay!

flying to oklahoma was a big deal. he was traveling on some kind of business, monkey business, said my mother who sensed the men he had fallen in with were not to be trusted and for my upcoming birthday he was going to bring back a 10 gallon hats that was worn by my favorite film cowboy, herman, i don't like this. i don't want you to see those men. jet, he screams, the veins in his neck bulging as he stood over her with his nose stifling her. that is where he came from. herman lear, or as he preferred to be known, h k, this case standing for king, a name he insisted he had been given and would never admit to having appropriated, was, i am going to

skip a little here. he was arrested upon his return on july 1st for receiving and trying to to sell phony bonds to the boston brokerage house keep a person and company. a list of childhood memories, a photograph of my father. on the front page of the next day's newspaper coming down the steps to the courthouse with one hand holding his hat over his face and the other man. to a detective. five weeks later he was convicted and sentenced to deer island prison off of boston harbor. that evening our house was filled with friends and relatives offering comfort as they brought the furniture my mother was selling, she having decided on the spot that we couldn't continue to live in chelsea in such distress. at one point, however, at one

point, someone i didn't know but instantly disliked offered to buy my father's red leather chair, the throne from which he had controlled the radio dial just as 40 years later argy would control the bunker family's tv viewing from his living room chair. as my mother and this scavenger agreed on a price i was devastated. the loss of my father's chair was like losing him twice in the same week. as if that were not bad enough, i would soon learn my mother planned to take my younger sister to live with her and leave me with various relatives until my father got out of jail and a family could be reunited. i clutched all that remained of my summer dream, that's unused

norman lear clock, which i managed to keep with me into my 30s, even my 40s and my eyelids bit down hard on the years i was fighting to hold back. at that point, someone, an uncle or cousin, or neighbor, placed his hands on my shoulders, looked deep into my eyes and announced with solemnity, if so many adults use when they are offering gratuitous counsel to the young, remember, norman, you are a member of the house now. this had to be the moment, the awareness of the foolishness of the human condition was born. i was just passed my ninth birthday, my father had been brought down before my eyes. we were about to disappear from family life. my own identity was no more than a thin but of fabric.

i was looking into the face of this fatuous passhole. arguing i was the man of the house now. he added with a smarmy smile i wanted to read from his face, no, no, son. a man of the house doesn't cry. how could i not have developed a deep appreciation for the absurdity and gravity of our existence. thank you. [applause] >> >> talk to me about if i had known i would have found the page for you.

when you talk about maude in your book. you talk about her being your favorite character or person from whom you received most, gave and received most. >> she was and reconstructed emotional liberal. she did know -- she was like me. she came from a place -- i compare myself often with rob reiner who i consider a second son, and who considers me a second father. rob knows everything he is talking about inside out. he has an opinion about

something politically he knows it inside out. i am empathetic, i feel like go i feel where i have every conviction my instinct is right, it could be wrong. i don't know the details like a wish i did. i am not scholarly. that was a lot. she came from the right place, she didn't have -- have all the conviction in the world. i didn't know about my relationship to the character until i was midway, three quarters of the way through this book. i learned so much about what preceded. i finished this book in my 91st year. i worked on it for four state -- straight years but i had been making notes for 20 years with

that. it took 25 years to come through my life but it was only in the last four years that i combed through it so thoroughly that i found out not just who i think i was that who i had been through all the years i didn't know. i am comfortable saying that, mine is just another human experience so a lot of us there's a kid in us who disappears awarded that way. to fight the world when his dad was gone. he hasn't disappeared altogether. >> something else happened when you were 9. according to your cousin you

wrote your first home and the name of the poem was my wonderful maiden. >> what? what is that? >> you did, you wrote that. >> there is an expiration, my cousin elaine who passed a couple years ago, always said honey, something -- the cousin i adored, one of the uncles i lived with before i wound up with my grandparents when my dad was a long way, elaine was of dad's family. >> she has a good memory. >> she had a great memory. >> would you like to hear from

some of the people in the audience? would you like to hear from some of the people in the audience? >> i would love to. >> we have a microphone in the middle and if you would line up behind it, we will take you one at a time. >> thank you for coming. you were great on david letterman's the other night. my question is two years before all in the family, the smothers brothers was off the air. i wanted because they were out of sync with the times, and wanted to know how you got away with what you got away with than in all in the family. >> i will take issue with get away. i don't think we got away with anything is >> as opposed to being taken off the air. >> i do know what you mean but a

lot of people -- it suggests that some think, wasn't what the american people were ready for and expected. there is nothing, no subject, including maude's abortion, no subject we dealt with that isn't part of the everyday american culture. there isn't a family in america that hasn't lived or known a family that didn't live up the street or down the street, nothing we dealt with that wasn't common to every american family. it is the establishment that doesn't think they are ready for this. that they are going to go nuts or sponsors get 60 letters from

people. this is the danger of the religious right. it is a narrow group in america but they can make an awful lot of noise. you deal with a subject like that and the mod episodes proved it. when we did the -- when maude had her abortion there was no big draw after the show. immodest amount of letters. people were thrilled or happy with it or like any other show. when the shows that was in october, when the show went into reruns in may or april, then the religious right was ready for it. they knew it was coming, then they laid down in front of cars, william paley's car in new york, my car in l a and carried on but

the american people, what the american people don't have is the information they need to be the citizens they ache to be and the encouragement along those lines to be the citizens. >> thank you. would you like to have are there ever reruns of "all in the family" any more? >> people tell me about them all the time. i don't know where to find them but there are. >> two comments and one question. the first comment is i want to say you are a big legend that the school. hats off to you, king leer. the second comment is i got to tell you i have great memories of hanging out with my family and watching "all in the family". we lost damage we watched a lot of television and your program

we watched because it had a lot of messages, hate and bigotry were utterly ridiculous, we would all gather around, there was the one episode where edith almost got raped and there with five girls in our family said that was important to my mother. the question i have is when did you have the moment that this was what you wanted to do? was it an evolution or did it hit you like a ton of bricks? >> there were two parts to the ahop moment. i had been married three times. i was being divorced first-time with two children. i was having a terrible time, it was very difficult with lawyers,

etc. etc. and doing the monterey show, a fellow rider was passing through from california and was also been divorced, had four kids. and i said how is it going? it is fine. with four kids you and not having a difficult time? he said no. species wants is my i married joan reruns. joan davis had a show on the air, a famous comedian of her time, he had done six years of it. his wife just wanted reruns so that was my ahop moment. i had to situation comedy. to sustain myself.

the second moment was reading about a british show called till death do us part which was about a father, son in law, i no longer remember who argued about everything. that was my father and me. so i had the idea. those were the two moments. >> howard from the miami herald here. >> how are you? we talked on the telephone recently. >> i told you one of the things that touched me the most in your book was the better than montezuma story and i think the audience would like to hear that. why not tell that us and should you meet be arthur again. >> that was really touching. >> i am trying to think -- we

got two days? there was -- we did an episode, several episodes of mod each year where the community had a telethon for good cause and she of course in her community would be running that telethon for a good cause and one year, she said we have a great show for you did tonight, this is happening, this is happening, and wheat have a meal montezuma -- is that the singer's name? paul anchor -- we had paul a.

capps gardner and he is going to sing for you tonight. so the time in the show comes, bill macy, her husband, is standing off camera and said it is time for -- walter said hold on. he is not here yet. you hear the orchestra beginning of the song and she says do something else, he says don't go -- you sing it. i can't sing it. he said you have to sing it. she says you do it better. she said oh please, walter. but she does start to sink. i can't remember the lyrics.

she gets that far and stops, i can't, and he says that you are better, you will do it better than sinatra. and better than montezuma. and the way beatrice arthur turns and says better than montezuma? i can't think of it to this moment without -- just -- and she sings the song and if you remember the character, she had a glorious voice. so if you are enough to remember it, there is a place in the book as i get back to adding up my

life where i realized a lot of what she was about -- i did a lot of things better. [applause] >> thank you. >> a draft dodger episode of "all in the family," among tv is all the time on, i stopped and i was transfixed for half an hour. i didn't leave the tv even during the commercial. it took me back to my childhood in a way i had not gone in decades. it had me upset the rest of the night. the writing was brilliant, carroll o'connor was brilliant, i can't get it out of my mind. thank you. >> tell the what the episode was

about. >> it is christmas eve dinner. one of mike's old high school friends surprises him from canada. he had been a draft dodger, one of the other guests in the house whose son died in vietnam and everybody is afraid to tell archy where the young man is from and why he is in from canada and it comes out anyway. heavy-duty fight starts about the vietnam war which affected all of our families all those years and at the end the father of the deceased boy tells archie i am glad he is here. >> the father of of that that had been killed in vietnam. archie says he won't sits at christmas dinner with somebody who escaped the war. then he turns to the father of

the deceased that and says you tell him, whatever his name was, you tell him and the guy stands up and says very slowly, my son did what he sought was right. he didn't believe in the war and he wouldn't fight and he died. >> he would want to be there too. >> if my son were alive he would be sitting with this young man. >> amazing, thank you. >> thank you. >> i mainly lost a few names but i would be curious to know which of the people you thought were the most brilliant in comedy. i have carl reiner, mel brooks,

larry gilbert, woody allen. >> it is a terrible question. >> it is not a terrible question. it is a great question. >> i miss spoke, i am sorry. >> they all happen to be very close friends, everything you mentioned. larry gilbert was the wittiest man i have ever known. line for line, there was nobody like him. mel brooks couldn't say anything felt wasn't funny because -- i can't start to do it. carl reiner could get up with no notes at all and have you in stitches in ten minutes and it could last 30 minutes. they were all great in their own way. one day a great many years ago in caesar's powerless, i met

him, he liked me, he said i know you are not a high roller but i will treat you like one. two houses with five bedrooms each, one at the golf course and the other in palm springs. therefore guests of the hotel. call my office, you can use those. you can use these houses so i called his office once in the house in palm springs, was open. five bedrooms, full resurfaced, so i invited the writers, bob brookss, the bill barts and dum-dum least, we were five couples with five bedrooms. and we had the time of our lives. so much so that for six or seven

years following twice a year, one house visit the other house, five couples gathered, we called ourselves a yiddish word which means the other word, the jews laughed. which means the other world. down to lease --dom deluise was slicing the cucumbers. great times. >> i just wanted to congratulate you on your audio book. i read it, listened to it, i wrote a note to you and i think this will say what i thought. apparently i got in. just in case i did not get in to meet you or see you, one of the unlucky ones hoping someone

doesn't show up so i can get into the house. i listened to your wonderful audio book, identified with two words you used several times in your book. i was very young, i was nominated for a local emmy award in chicago. the show was called popeye. needless to say the first person i wanted to tell was my mother. her reply was oh please. but mom, i said, i have a ticket for you. the next response was oh please, steve, go and have a good time. i laughed and i cried to. after missing to even this i got to do -- "even this i get to

experience," i discovered i was not the only ones that experience that horrible motherly love, and. i really want your autograph. >> thank you. you will have it. okay. i can't wait to read your book and i am sorry if i am about to -- >> we will wait. >> i am about to invite you to give away a punch line. i can't get the summer of 1931 out of my head, the story you started with. what became of you and your father, your mother, your sister? how did that in for your work? >> i don't know what became of

me. my sister has been sitting in the same chair for several years smiling. there's a lot of that around my life. too much of that. my father died in his 50s. my mother passed at 90 something, 93 i think. did i cover everybody? >> when he got out of prison to the family get back together? >> this was my father. when he got out of prison, wheat -- i was living in newhaven. my mother and sister came, my father was -- got out of prison on the new york new haven

hartford railroad, stopped in newhaven. we were joining him. as it turned out we were going to new york to live with another family, their friends, in not very small apartment that they had two children also until my father got a job. that was the circumstance, when the train came in my father was standing -- in the same suit he wore when he went to tulsa, now a size and have too large. i have that image clear in my head. then i got on the train with my mother's sister and for a while my mother and father were sitting together, my sister and i together and my father and i came and sat with me and while he was with me, he said you are going to be bar mitzvahed next year. i am going to take you and your mother and sister for a trip around the world.

we will be gone a year. you know my father. and i believed him, of course. when i think about all of these circumstances, we will be gone year, it gets me. that is what happened. anyway, we lived that way from handing out throu depression. >> in the house with the most loving, brilliant, prescient and that high note in his high school class he was known as king profit and he was prophetic as you well know, read the book,

it is so rich and wonderful. i have been given the lines from behind the curtain that we have to wrap up. [applause] >> thank you. >> you have been watching live coverage of the miami book fair at miami dade college. c-span2 booktv, 48 hours of nonfiction books every weekend. norman lear, "even this i get to experience," he did a call in with us earlier. he is 92 years old. a large stack of the miami book fair going on. you can see the wind blowing.

we have moved -- it is too windy -- we moved outside set and we are on those c-span bus. you can come down and pick up a c-span book bag. another call in opportunity for you now joining us, two members of the benghazi response team also known as oz and tanto. "13 hours: the inside account of what really happened in benghazi". we will begin here, mark geist, where where you and september 12th, 2012? >> benghazi, libya. that night, we were having dinner with people we had to meet that night and talked to. we had just about wrapped it up when i got a call from tyrone woods and he said need to get

back to the annex as quickly as possible, there is something else going on, there is trouble at the confluence. >> why were you there? >> i was working as chris was, private military contractors with the united states government to protect case officers when they go about their job. >> and where were you that night? >> i was in the cia annex and i was on the reaction force in the development count and standing by waiting for him to come back. basically you are on edge but it was another normal day and making sure our people are supported. >> what was the cia and next? >> a facility that is used to do clandestine operations. >> host: how far was that from

where the ambassador was? >> three quarters of a mile, not far away. >> a couple short turn that you are there. >> was it a known facility? >> in east department facility, work nearby, our facilities are not supposed to be known, but over time basically there for a certain period of time you are just going to see why spaces come in and out. weather and ours was known or not i don't know but the locals knew that it wasn't a local facility but it was known. >> why was ambassador stephen there? >> he was there to open up or open up a school opening a local libyan had helped a u.s. behrman, a pilot who got shot

down in the ouster of the doughty, to support him he had been opening up an american speaking the school for libyans and the ambassador came down to do a ribbon cutting ceremony for that individual. >> use two were not on the ambassador's personal team, correct? did you even see him when he was there in benghazi? >> he was out -- the ambassador did visit us. the ambassador of libya. he him by the day before, had lunch and he will come and meet for a debate. he won't me with the security team personally but he will give a little talk, a great job, what is going on, the state department doing it and it is more of the meet and greet, thanks for assisting to us and the chance for them to get better foods and we did and our

facility. >> what was the security threat at that time? >> benghazi itself was a lawless city. out side of the greater tripoli area and when i first got there, you never saw police cars are around. 15 days before 9/11 when the attack happened you started seeing police cars and even a policeman when they answer to the militias. they worked for the government but would answer to the militia. >> like afghanistan and iraq. that day being 9/11 was more threatening, that is a better question, it it is a threatening environment every day you are there especially in areas that don't have a solid government.

is very dangerous. that is why we are there. >> how many american security personnel such as yourselves, diplomatic security, there was g r s and some cia folks. >> yes. we got diplomat security officer, six of them. and the security team. >> and it stands for? >> global response data and there were six of us and the actual c i a staff personnel, 18, 19 of them. that is what we primarily -- >> 25. >> is that a normal step for a diplomatic compound such as this? >> for the annex there is never a normal staff. it varies on the location and what help they need to support and things like that.

the consulate now, i have been probably in my 30 years of being in the military and contract in, 15, 20 different countries and embassies i have been too, having five diplomatic security personnel only is not normal. >> a low number. >> especially with no other security on their site. they had five libyan guards that were hired from february 17th martyrs brigade but that was it. they were guarding the tears. >> not in my opinion. i worked state department contracts prior to c.i.a. contracts and it was very low, very underand and especially with a high-ranking ambassador. it seemed odd to us. >> the cover of the book, it is called "13 hours: the inside account of what really happened in benghazi". the numbers are up on the screen.

if you would like to dial in and talk with mark geist, 202-585-389 zero, free 891 for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. what time did the incident occur, the invasion? >> there are several time lines. my time line when i looked at my watch, i said that to everybody i have been interviewed by and the subcommittee, 9:30, that is what had on my watch when we were called in the incident began and we found out about it. ..