talk with mark geist, 202-585-389 zero, free 891 for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. what time did the incident occur, the invasion? >> there are several time lines. my time line when i looked at my watch, i said that to everybody i have been interviewed by and the subcommittee, 9:30, that is what had on my watch when we were called in the incident began and we found out about it. ..

>> >> we were able to get halfway there where they actually reinforce the positions were we would drive so we had to dismount to go on foot. it took at least 45 minutes to an hour to arrive from the initial call and by that time that was already a fire and the ambassador was missing. the building was filled with

smoke and we are very able we could push them off to get in there to clear the compound to get to the people that we could the nobles took an hour to reach the consulate after the initial call. >> why? did you get the call right away? >> that is the $1 million question. >> we were told to stand down. we were delayed approximately 27 minutes of the compound we don't know house side of our chain of command where it came from. we know it came from the standing orders and those came from the base is in libya but anybody hired? we don't know. we would like to know but we have no idea. >> host: what about the libyans? >> about 630 in the morning about 546:00 after the

mortars a militia that is actually part of the libyan government is what helped to escort us to the airport but that was almost 10 hours later but up until that time there was no real significant assistance. the murder brigade a few of their people had showed up that helped out on their own but there was not a substantial force from any libyan militia until about 6:00 in the morning. >> host: city went to the libyan businessman house and

you drove her back where? >> to the annex while the attack was taking place at the consulate we came back on a different route. >> host: you did not take her back to the consulate? >> she was never there. >> could you communicate? >> at that point to be a good listener that i understood the situation they were giving over the radio to make sure i had things ready because may do more than likely they would hit us so we had to be ready to major we had positions and in the meantime nobody but try to sneak up on the

compound. >> host: how many people died? >> on our and we lost four. those of ron and our team can those due to smoke inhalation at the consulate. it was tough. on there isn't we have reports anywhere between 20 and 40. there is a u.s. military element in there but we were not keeping score that is not how works. >> host: when and how was in passenger stevens finally discovered? >> guest: we found out after the fact, the gentleman carrying him with a phone in his mouth was a neighborhood friend.

redgrave finally left the consulate and the smoke died down the locals could go in there between 12 and 130 in the morning they could get far back enough into the of the law because the fumes had died down they found his body in and pulled him now. he died of smoke inhalation the reports of drug industry and tortured is a corrupt -- incorrect. he died of smoke inhalation. >> host: he was locked into the secure area you're a military background? indicated 12 years with the marine corps got out 1996

then i became a police officer's six years three of those i was chief of police in a small town in eastern colorado then i started my own business of private investigations and bail bond then win the war kicked off i had to get back into the game. >> i read your with the ranger regiment and was with the 19th special forces group of a contractor nine years before they got me up and every country in the middle east have worked in and been deployed to. we have extensive experience there on the ground we are very lucky we did. that is what saved the lives. >> host: tactically what would you have done differently? >> tactically personally we would have disobeyed orders

earlier and left if i had control of the supporting elements or had the ability to contact them there would have been there sooner but our movements come of the shooting, is splitting up of teams, i think we did that correctly. i think that is why we're able to save lives and fight off though large force. i do take responsibility. is not leaving early enough or to save the ambassador's wife i take that personally. that is the biggest mistake it keeps me of that night. >> host: it was not our job to protect the ambassador serving in the area of operations that when

they are there we feel we are responsible and the fact we cannot get over their quick enough was probably one of the biggest things the way i would guess it in the most recent report the chief's base was trying to get the zero libyans to find out information to assess the technical information and. i will not depend on a libyan or a nationalist to do that i will depend on americans that are highly trained and retrieve the six of us we had over 100 years of experience. in the wars on around the world. tyrone was the most deletes

military force is with us deals he had retired and was an instructor at the ads and with his experience, if you have a guard dog will you let him do his job or hold him back? >> host: then there is a third gentleman off to the side who was also there in the book 30 hours. let's take some calls from riverside california. >> caller: my question is i heard the ambassador had some inside information in it was possible he was targeted and the victims that were beheaded wanted

the information is that anything about that and god bless our president. faqs. >> i can speak for myself that i have not heard of any information that was similar to that. that would have brought the danger to him. because of those sheer numbers is a possible? it is possible there were targeting for a kidnapping but no veto would have solid information and as far as the headings we do have information on those it has said it confirmed on our and so we really don't have a solid the answer because it

has not been solidified. >> caller: when hillary was testifying in made the ststatement what difference does it make how does that make you feel? >> eight agree. whether it was in that context i have heard it is in the wrong context but the matter what context somebody at that level in politics i always makes a difference. if you don't find out the truth about what happens you can not evaluate what you did right or wrong. eight garett three very much. >> me as well. we had people dying. our friends died. it is a huge difference when americans die on him and soil.

-- foreign soil and today it still makes me a angry to hear that. it makes us to hold on to tell the truth to put it out there. they you for saying that because i will dig give my heels to know that they know that it matters. >> host: san francisco go-ahead. >> caller: fate you for your service. i have a comment i don't think it is fair to take the secretary's comment out of context i know that she did not mean what you are replying. she said these people were dead. and no matter what you could not bring them back. i have watched that testaverde and i did not get

those negative aspects of her response that you imply that you heard. but my question is, i am sure you are aware of the hearings that isis has had of benghazi in the you have opinions of what has come out if it was useful? >> the hearings taking place are useful. we have to get as much information as possible to evaluate and determine what was right and wrong. the only way to do that is

to kick that horse and tell is down. we have not reached that full complexity because neither betty on the ground has been talk to. we were there on the ground. we told the truth. we told the house committee what happened. whetheey want to believe us or not is up to them but there is no other people on the ground but us in our stories have not changed or referred. if the subcommittee wants to say things that does not represent the book then have them on the show. we will just keep telling you what actually happened in the comments but you are in charge you are a leader you don't say that about military personnel when they die. especially the way they died or when we did not have the support that we needed but i

understand your position and is respected. spinach the author of 13 hours in benghazi with the senate security team. illinois please go ahead. >> caller: i want to say faq for your service many times people go into harm's way. that makes a difference it is important. i would like your opinion if the states department participated to close the embassy said in a proper way? he said he did not get out soon enough it sarah is like the best response was you didn't respond quickly

enough to the situation on the ground a and we didn't get you out of there like we should have. what is your response? >> the thing that should have happened first and foremost, before 9/11 is ensure u.s. facility rehab overseas has the access available to protect themselves because you always have that but also a response force to love those people to survive and not have to depend on themselves only this the best thing to do is make sure you have the strong president to put that bigger defense said you don't look like a victim or going down without a fight.

>> either defend your team to make sure they are properly defended or not. we were stuck in the middle you either show the force or the lead so you bring up the good point we will not fully secure our facilities overseas then we should not have been there. no argument. >> you are on the air. >> caller: what do you do when you were in the high style countries? can you go out or interact with people? >> our job is to understand

the community and the environment that we were kids and so when we are not on a specific mission we do sayings to better equate ourselves for what is going on in that environment and we worked out a lot and play a lot of xbox. [laughter] we're very lucky we are allowed to go off site whenever we want to. yes we do mingle in town and go to coffeeshops we know city's better than the locals and there are good people in benghazi that we became friends with that just want to get back on their feet and one their country back somewhere hurts us more than most because we do have a relationship with these people and when we

leave they will die because of their relationships with us. but we do read a lot we read a lot of books arrear over seas to know what is going on within the country and the history and to try to stay busy. downtime is the worst. >> host: is there a libyan security team guarding the consulate that night? when the break-in occurred they fled? >> yes. the murders brigade that group was hired by the state department to provide security at the consulate. vocal forces. they saw one shot fired but

then they were gone. >> they went into the villa was one shot fired? >> they are very, very good at planning. a and they walked into the compound and check and over without having to do much. >> host: is that standard operating procedure to have non-american is guarding the compound? gimmicks security is layered. just like a foreign government or consulate or embassy it is the u.s. personnel guarding that? because the people that will come to that are locals from that country anti-actors of the local security forces.

>> so the reporter needed to be developed was not there. and because we developed a good reporter into afghanistan or kurdistan it has not been developed but the size of the force was not lot of the 417. it was in position. >> caller: from the description of the numbers of personnel and with their rich doing from what this gentleman has been saying and other information i have received it sounds like this

really was not a standard consulate that more of the cia operation and there was more activity relating to intelligence gathering and counter insurgency activities and what would normally be considered diplomatic activities. so if what i said was correct, is there a different evaluation and to be applied in terms of security or the way this situation should be approached? the second question, the man had a lot of courage and was a patriot, but i have to ask realistically commented the

ambassador demonstrate good judgment in going to use the place under the circumstances that were prevailing? >> the cia and expand the council letter to completely separate entities independent of one another. they're operations may be coordinated to gather back in washington but we were completely independent of them and those of us. event that is the case. >> i get what you are saying that it was used for cover but whether it was or not means is still needs security was intelligence

gathering? of course, we are cia that is what we do. we have to find a terrorist or al qaeda or any other organization. as far as the ambassador will he say it is his fault? no way. could use better judgment? if it was me i would have so i will not say i agree with you that maybe he made a bad judgment call there was the ambassador and he felt comfortable but working in the state department before in having almost 80 guys as your ambassador i thought he was under protective but he is the ambassador and will do what he wants to do.

the fiber not have made the same decision if i was him. we all had to resign. imus the job immensely. >> host: why did you have to resign? >> it is a part of it. our names were out there. the book has nothing classified in it but because our word names are out there and our call signs with the affiliation rate cannot do it anymore. >> host: what you doing these gay is --? >> spending time with my kids and my wife. i am a bookseller. we with love it if you cannot to buy the book. >> host: a couple minutes left. >> caller: i just want to say thank you for your

service and for coming forward with your story. this is truly amazing science sorry for the loss of your team members' it is shameful he did not have the support that you needed. with that said, what kind of response overall you were getting now that the book is out? when a you coming to columbia's the you can sign my copy? >> south carolina. >> thank you very much for your support. wed we are out there leading the people makes it worthwhile. it is wonderful to see what people say. is refreshing to see the lovely and the patriotism.

as for south carolina if it was set to rise to read every state in every major and small town. we will try to get out that way. follow-up sun facebook intruder we will though with mir in that direction spitzer personal names. tell the publisher you want us to be in your city. they drive the train. >> caller: they're just was not enough security there in the first place. a report just cannot

yesterday the republicans who did the interviews and there was no stand down order. there was no obama cover-up said you were out there trying to push a book to get your money because you have no job no more to blame it on a bob much and i think that is wrong you should tell the truth is exactly the truth. >> during the house subcommittee i looked at mike rogers in the eye and i said if we had not been delayed which we were, three times we would have saved the ambassador's wife and john smith's life and i will go on the record again to

say that again that i have said multiple times what he cannot with the report he did i don't know what to tell you. what we said in the book is what happened on the ground and that is the truth as far as bookselling i do have my own business i don't need this money we did not do this to sell a book but tell the truth we also deployed one year after that waiting for the administration to come forward and they didn't simply made a decision as a team to come forward to tell the truth so you had your opinion if you are entitled to that and i respect that the book is the truth. bottom line. >> had we stayed working we could make more money working and what we could selling this book. we did it to honor the four guys who died there. there were not honored we were in montana the same

thing happened afire man from los angeles built a monument because he felt there not honored at that time and this started two years ago when he started to build that why we do it in to honor those americans that died serving our country. hearing is --. >> host: here is the cover of the book. 13 hours. you were watching booktv on c-span2. now programming will continue up next is dr. west you saw him speaking earlier

now here is a chance for a call in he will be here in just a minute. the street fair is still going on here coverage is continuing from miami we have several hours left today in a full day tomorrow go to booktv - - speed 23 spee 23 we will be right back with cornel west. >> what could possibly motivate someone to join them ridiculous regime? i made contact and he in the unit were based on top of the it took one day and when i got up there i went through narrow trail to a small village at the top and sure enough sitting in one of five houses was a group of taliban fighters when

sighed and sat down they were sitting cross legged. i check out my notebook and started to interview them to ask questions like why are you fighting against the u.s. what type of society do you want what is the assessment of the '90s regime? he gave me terrorists boiler plate answers for all of them that 1.he said you were the first foreigner i have never met. in the first american and so can i ask you some questions? yes. he would ask me where at obama had just announced that troops surge he said wage your president wanting to surge troops? i tried to explain

geopolitical concerns and domestic politics. then he said why does your country come to afghanistan in the first place? he knew very little about 9/11 and i try to explain what that was about then he asked me questions about cultural life in the united states. i heard in the united states women walk around naked and no one controls them. i said that is not exactly correct. i've tried to explain the differences but at some point he said had you seen the films the titanic? he said hockey their country doesn't make movies like that anymore? he was the big fan as were many members of the taliban actually they outlawed the titanic because it was

popular among members of the taliban they would get leonardo to capriotes hair cuts that was the first inkling that i had got thinking about afghanistan it is complicated when you talk to people to hear the stories on the ground.

>> live coverage from the miami a book fair continues and is the 17th year we have come to miami to broadcast back-to-back coverage on saturday and sunday. this year 25 different authors we are still in the first day and it is a crowded book fair at miami-dade colleges kind of 20 instead of the usual outdoor set removed inside on the bus now joining us live is cornel west black prophetic fire is his book.

what is the format of this book? >> i was blessed to work with a scholar from germany. it was her idea actually serve to focus on the towering figures and martin luther king, jr. but i do want to salute you peter because you have high level quality 17 years you have covered this so thank you very much in makes a difference in the culture. >> host: let's go back to you into use the word prosthetic why are their profits in your view? >> they exemplify integrity and honesty and decency

relived in such a market driven culture and criminality but to the intent to be a person as an integrity makes it counter cultural it becomes more of a liability and though most subversive and when you looked at the figures there is a sensitivity to others but they are committed to be honest persons. >> how well known was dead you e. b. du bois? >> he was an intellectual and half of the 20th-century that the end of his life he was so critical of the men

it -- america's role when it came to support after kin colonial is them and the regime's as well as some latin america but so many courageous intellectuals who for a moment was a darling of the mainstream but continued to hold onto integrity despite the popularity they took his passport away and harry belafonte's held on issues supported emerging gain was the very poor -- powerful speech the most people said it was too popular to be associated with them but thank god for those who continue to push w.e.b. du bois he is like john cole train. [laughter] with that high-level and in

their case it is genius. >> host: who is elevator? >> with the biggest activism of the 20th century and the executive director. but then with the polls in the templeton is the right now and then mix of unbelievable tension they

would exemplify the leadership from the leader coming from the outside. >> host: cornel west what about barack obama? mimics certainly there is no obama with his brilliance and charisma to win the presidency without that black prophetic fired to expose lies and tell the truth to bear witness in a courageous way but he moves through the political system it is true for the black congressional caucus and once you make the move on the inside to have to make choice drones' pursues new drones are wall streeters remain street. gun rights our liberty so that enables him that we understand he has constraints.

which the brothers and sisters regard to immigration and it is important but i wish she would have done a long time ago. >> it to be mistreated and abused that he has not been engaged in any prosecutions or even as attorney-general. we cannot allow citizens of any color to be shot in the back. in dallas be have kenneth chamberlain in michael brown and we can go on and on.

we have moved with ask the federal level and i think we should. ella baker, a frederick douglass. >> host: was that a critique of president obama? >> let the chips fall where they may. that you were criticizing or haiti, a the president and i hate in justice. of the people as a christian to love everybody but let the chips fall where they may. if you choose to bail out wall street not mistreat that is a major critic of the president. i am committed to bailing a main street, orders but not those bureaucrats to have committed so many crimes.

let the others get caught from the justice system is to do tilted against the port. is a against humanity. what do we have? but it is a matter to be consistent. that is all. >> host: you may call a our guest. let's take some calls. dr. west we will start in north carolina. >> caller: hello.

i appreciate you with idb. day you do any writing on contemporary or specifically i have one in mind, what is your feelings on farrakhan? would you consider doing a writing about him or elis gemma homage? they are not in the dialogue guy just want to hear your opinions. >>. >> host: what is your opinion? >> caller: i admire both because they see things from a different point of view or different vintage point. >> guest: both figures are

tiring within the black nationalist tradition. but as the day of our hut is not devalued in america. but i take the position that i recognize of tokamaks who loved him but then later breaks with the light shed himself as he said i have been blessed of course, for many years with that time spent we work together in spend time at his home.

we had a dialogue for seven hours. i was critical about anti-semitism we pulled the biblical text added wrestled with history i learned from him if he learned from the and he can keep track whether i agree hr disagree his courageous that he can hold onto what he believes of the unpopularity. that is the important sign. aicher shibani anti-jewish iraq's store critiques. >> the next time you have a

conversation simic we will vlsi the chicago. [laughter] >> thanks for taking the call. i heard your remarks about music keep referencing data especially when people would play horns if you have the chops you want other people in their review in a race does not make a difference. what is with the same you wear around your neck and also thinking about 20 years ago i saw the reaction of the black community after the o.j. trial. was that instead of reparations or pay back? >> i appreciate the question. it is quite understandable

to after that perceive human injustice that is chronic and systematic. had you had that has the advantage? but every 28 hours is human to the splined but begin but i wouldn't it 1581 but 70 of them have records in 10 times more then the white

brothers and sisters for the exact behavior. you cannot live in the democracy with arbitrary police power at that level. or patriarchal power. is just more of an issue to be consistent. >> but this period of mike ditka sent pitcher this is bob marley's mother. >> how long have you carry this around? >> i have had so many years it is hard to count but it

talks about the musical a genius with this city in the integrity when it comes to so much misery so what i talk about the piano not just entertainers the warriors of the spirit who put love that the center.

[laughter] and now where we raised by the way? >> guest: in black neighborhoods, the church with kate took one of the greatest pastors. i have a great granddaughter. >> host: seattle you are on with cornel west. >> caller: mr. west i feel in the african-american community we are a to problem people so what i say in the united states senate

what will happen in you had democrats for those the food to put them in office. but nixon does not want to state my dash speed up to them i speak up about to do -- it is criminal-justice. but down in the south we should have black congressional members of congress. no whites. they have legalize these. so what can we do to focus on their own community? >> host: we got the question.

>> i appreciate your spirit as well as the question because no doubt we live in a country where the conversation has moved so far to the right of with an attitude to foreign working people that the democratic people move to the right as well from the democratic governor there he is republican into the core. the not really taking the moral stand to say this arbitrary is in the wrong. is a moral conviction. that they won the election to take a stand for justice.

>> host: so what does that mean? what about the militarizing of that urban context? many say the same thing it was under barack obama exemplified of the police department that now makes ferguson and look like baghdad but the politicians need to be rendered accountable as well of course, we have too many black folks to look kid in the mainstream. >> host: you have 25 books now? twenty-one llord 22? >> we invited him to talk earlier today black prophetic fire.

from germany. >> i have critical words about obama telling the truth but coming from such shared great people we talk america as something about justice through our struggles and how low do we keep that alive? they got on with that freedom movement there was a matter to be sensitive to the needs no-no they our fellow human beings who teach what it means to be human.

like the duke ellington and the sarah barnes and others. >> you are on with cornel west. >> caller: i was charged with subject matter with the woman who worked for chase bank in the basic said prime basic rates to be sold to another bank in the dead date is on those types of loans was basically supplied

this delaying can you talk about her in the debate? >> guest: i am so glad you raised that issue. with chelsea manning and edwards noted in with the truth and justice to know about the mainstream institutions are hiding and concealing with the criminality there is a direct connection between the allies that cover-up and the crimes that violate people's humanity. had there not been able investigation of the wall street crime we will say without a recall there he

was strong in voting rights and strong to make sure in that context there was part of fairness. but he fell on his face dealing with the wall street crime. then head of jpmorgan to be diamond he could make a phone call to the white house to set up deals but never savor guilty when you know, they were can you imagine if we commit a crime just to call city hall? we will just send some money and we're off the hook. no. that is not the criminal-justice system that we need and people need to be accountable in person.

i like them of that magnitude just like henry kissinger in chile. too late to have a town hall and to make a movie out of it and they are off the hook and though wiretappers of course, . 60%. they sell drugs. is a war on drugs young people disproportionately black and brown.

but these whistle-blowers but it is high quality public life is better than rush limbaugh. i fight for his right to be wrong because i am a libertarian also. we have the right to be wrong he has told a lot of lies that the same time we you have government telling lies and is not honest that makes it more difficult. we have to straighten him out politically. >> host: have you ever met him? >> no. >> host: when is the last time you had a conversation with barack obama? >> not since campaign in 2008. i did say if he would win i

would be the biggest social critic because i was critical of the system and i tried to be true to my word about the system and the choices that he makes when he makes good choices to expand health insurance that is wonderful and the pharmaceutical companies i am critical but it is just a matter of time from what we are here to you do but what does it take to be a christian? i am very serious about that. through the moves of jesus

christ to refuse all forms of idolatry to put blood in the center is always perceived to be impotent but yet that love can never ever be shut out. armed troops and unconditional love and then it moneychanger its end of lost eight haven't come chris and but that is said jesus that means so much to meet end i love the agnostic brothers and sisters for their contributions but i have to be honest and candid where i am coming from. in what constituted this and

i will go from though boom to the tomb. >> host: calling from tennessee go-ahead to. >> caller: ag for taking my call site can it tell you how honored i am to be talking to cornel west. the one thing i'd like to bring up. >> guest: and i am talking to you sisters. >> thank you i consider you to be my brother. i have listened to you over and over again and you continuously say 400 years of slavery. i have done the math you put it on the united states but it did not come into being i

take the date of 1789 to make it 96 years 125,000 people who died but not all for the abolition of slavery but my family did i don't know why i feel the need to say that. >> host: to what him to define his 400 years >> caller: not you define it but defend it.utm

>> i went just like to add a little comment going back to thousand years back to egypt for the slaves to ponder there masters it and be good to your slaves in the saudi arabia in many countries but question with the brown case how can you convict him if he has not had their trial? >> i appreciate both points but we were talking primarily about the new world africans in the modern context and what has been in place thousands of years you need to read patterson one of the great scholars with 87 different societies were

in place we are talking specifically in the western hemisphere. but it is true i am calling for a fair trial. i don't convict the brother at all. but i do believe he did something deeply wrong but i do not convict him by a belief than the trial but how do you have a fair trial if said grand jury says it is not transparent? talk about the black brothers and brown's sisters in those who would be mistreated. suit is not just about michael brown but i call for of fair trial but to find

you can call -- kill somebody and not even be arrested? i would be arrested in one minute. i could be in jail for when year before they even have a trial. they have a difficult job. i know that. but there is also too many police within the culture that get away with mistreating the black and brown kids. it is immoral. is just wrong. >> host: we have more callers waiting. cavan you're on the air. >> caller: it is up pleasure to speak with you. thank you mentioned a coal

train to turn him on and i will put on myles. [laughter] as soon as i am done with this conversation. but listening to you since race matters and watch on television but i have never heard your thoughts on the great senator moynihan report when he was with of labor department on the black family. with his references were to that and how would that have changed or not? >> very quickly tell us

about yourself. >> caller: i na california boy interested in these issues and a fan of dr. west. is an interesting issue of byte to have him reflect upon. >> guest: i appreciate the question there was as great study of the black family does fundamental your name to reconnect with loved ones but the problem with moynihan he coined the term the nine neglect they make certain gestures to know that black folks will not be

any way taken seriously with their suffering they will be tolerated for a an afterthought. but at the academic level certainly he turns out to be right but not for the right reason because of the behavior of black people doing massive unemployment with a red line of the neighborhoods and the services like water and so forth and so on so they produce said jim crow, jr. the patter's severed deeply characterized by segregation so i am highly critical i

would say all the time we had wonderful all conversations but he loved to drink. i try not to much. >> caller: how are you? >> host: please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: i have a couple. first of all, i have said dad who love you dearly. ion able to refer to everybody as brother a ancestor i remember tony brown saying a long time ago

when it all comes down to where it everyone, as their mother is black. the second question is this is with the farrakhan in the people always referred to as criticizing brother barack obama. what is your comment on an interview with the sister that we should be careful criticizing him so much that we could to set up a climate that could be fatal for him and i thank you know what i am talking about teeseventeen q. we have to get a response.

>> guest: all critiques have to be separated from vicious demonizing. especially the president in the atmosphere that so many people hate him and want to do harm to him that we have to raise our voices in a critical way that actually farrakhan is quite right in regard to welcome max and he is courageous about telling the truth but there was another question? referring to everybody as brother. >> that is how i was raised. but each and every one of us

we're all one species to all coming out for the species itself that he emerged from africa where is the africa of the other. we always make a connection but as the christian ahead great insight you don't want to impose closure but change but to transform themselves into a love that ended as well. we have a deeper level of respect for the eight or nine years. in to spend time we wrestled with the issues i just had a

battle to have another dialog. and others with the magnificent freedom fighters in fact, is true right across the board they are brothers and sisters and people i have deep disagreements with t-72 ever think about a baptist minister? >> that is the benchmark five called a teacher. >> host: may i ask how old you are? speesix 61.

>> caller: i am near orlando. how are you? >>. >> guest: i am blessed to hear your voice. >> caller: i am a high school english teacher and talk about how to disagree without being disagreeable and of course, i speak specifically to those that criticize you or publicly disagree or with a the president or not to be chastising the president to are we to chastise those in authority? says speak to us to verbally sustain the argument as well as being able to sustain the

protest within our tradition. >> wonderful questions. said you hate the fact they're treated unjust or unfairly. you hate policies but you can still keep track of the humanity. i hate the policies on the republican side of things. and if that means spiritedness but that is true for the black leaders as well. you have to be honest and candid lighted helos the policies because of a life of decency and you have a long history of that.

each one of these figures have a tremendous critique of the standard. douglas was called the proslavery president were we can change his mind in the book reminds us of that they did not hate to brother abraham. not at all. he was from the right side of town for he is the first to tell you he hated slavery and is open to the prophetic voice is -- voices but if i say obama is too close to wall street then i hear you talk about the president? no.

clinton said the same thing. i said the same thing black presidents don't say a word but all sharpton said over and over and we should not say one critical word about the black president but i tell brother al sharpton what tradition been produced you not to be critical of any form of injustice but you could still do that by questioning of policies for those who wrote those policies. >> host: you have the last word with cornell west. >> caller: i have a question of prominent black people of the last couple of centuries and one woman is so much for. have you heard of her?

>> caller: a sculptor from western pennsylvania that has passed away but if you look at the roosevelt dimes her profile -- he sat for her for the portrait that ended up on the roosevelt dimes. i thank you should look up selma burke to add her in the next book. >> guest: that is beautiful. i just met somebody from arkansas univ. pine bluff he gave me a magnificent sculpture representation of frederick douglass his name is henry but he is a magnificent artist and is in the same tradition of the

sister that you just talked about. but i do need to know more of the history of black -- black sculptors'. >> caller: she was in the '20s there we're accused of being communist but of course, they were not but they were black. so she was said teacher for all the schools to teach about sculpture she is worth looking into. selma burke. >> guest: and the top down underdog but she has the play on broadway it is

called farmers return from the war. can it is an epic classic. she writes the music as well as the play. it is culture of character but also the foibles and the catastrophes but reminds you of the edginess of tennessee williams. to have that kind of voice still around is a wonderful sign with a genius he was. from the west side of chicago. >> host: the most recent book but i hear you already have another one.

>> it will be coming out in a month and a half it is my attempt to understand with everybody loving him but america did people disapproved of though he died who was this guy? hereof to the poor people including the four babies and trying to keep in mind the abraham what death figure he was. those a great prophetic tradition. >> host: cornel west we

appreciate you coming to talk with our audience let us know when your book comes out. coming up we still have more coverage from the miami book fair coming up in just a minute we will show you what was taped earlier in the day and the book is called the resilience to the event they will talk can show you that it is just a couple of hours old we're on the call in program so that is why we taped it. . .

[inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon. good afternoon, miami. my name is pascal. it is an absolute pleasure to be with you. the book fair is thankful.

we would like to acknowledge friends some of whom i see here today. thank you for your generous support. at the end of this session we will have time for questions and answers. additionally, the authors will be signing books in the autograph area, which is to the right of where you are at this time. please silence your cell phone's. it is now my pleasure to welcome ms. miss grimes who will introduce our authors. >> thank you, and welcome. what a day.. what a day. we have all made it out here in the windy whether. it is an absolute delight to introduce to you today to remarkable women and authors who will have a discussion on the new novel by judith

rodin, "the resilience dividend: being strong in a world where things go wrong." a generous supporter of the book fair for which we are incredibly grateful. previously the president of the university of pennsylvania live, provost of the ale. actively participated in influential global forums including the world economic forum, the council on foreign relations, the lincoln global initiative and the united nations general assembly. in 2012 the new york governor andrew cuomo named her to cochair of new york state 2100 commission on long-term resilience following super storm sandy. a pioneer and innovator, the first woman named to lead an

ivy league institution in the first: and the first woman to serve as the rockefeller foundation president. graduate of the university of pennsylvania and earned a phd in psychology from columbia university. the author the author of more than 200 academic articles and has written or cowritten 12 books. "the resilience dividend: being strong in a world where things go wrong" is her latest book. from cyber attacks to food shortage crisis to strain volatility and energy prices, we can no longer assume we are immune to the world's world's wicked problems. we face extreme weather events, representative up you wish shift and global interconnectedness that make us vulnerable to the worlds problems in new and increasingly challenging ways.

a way of thinking and practical tools for taking action to protect the world's people and communities and shows us how to create a blueprint for change. a journalist, television newscaster, and author, moderator and managing editor of washington week in comanaging anchor. she is a political analyst and has moderated the 2,004 and 2,008 vice presidential debates, the author of the book the breakthrough, politics and race in the age of obama. please welcome to the stage judith and going. app mac.

>> hello, everybody. you are just here to get out of the rain. >> well, our introducer talked about crisis as the new normal, and it surely is. somewhere in the world at least once a a week there is a storm or a new epidemic , civil unrest, cyber attacks, and in this age of so much in addict ability and so much turmoil, resilience is about developing three capacities, the capacity to be ready, to prepare for any kind of disruption, the capacity to respond in ways that allow

you to bounce back more quickly and effectively if there is a disruption, and the capacity to revitalize so that if there is a blow you are developing the opportunity to revitalize, adapter my and change. we need to shift our paradigm, so we are very much focused on relief and not enough on repaired miss and readiness. let me tell you just one short story, and i think it will make the. boston for at least six or seven years had in rehearsing, whether it was a terrorist attack or a violent storm or flooding. they did not know what it would be, and none of us do.

for any kind of disruption. for some reason that kind of disruption, completely unprepared, fairbrother together all of the elements of government, government, communication companies and water companies in transit companies and all of the medical responders precisely because they did not know what it was. they they had a plan so that they knew. they had already decided that no matter what happened if there was a crisis governor patrick would be the communicator. they had already decided the fbi would be the coordinator. in nine teen minutes anybody who had been had been hurt got to a hospital, and no one died. they used every event

occurring in boston as a chance to rehearse. sporting teams who were in and had big parades so that they were unbelievably ready. all, walmart has the goal of increasing their on-site renewable energy by 600 percent by 2020 because they are preparing for any kind of disruption. >> i think about it as bouncing back. does this mean that it always has to be a disaster involved? >> know because. >> know because obviously this is about planning in case something goes wrong. the idea is that not every disruption has to become a disaster. the dividend that i talk about is the investment in repaired miss that pays off

whether or not something goes wrong which is the ambition, whether an individual thinking about your own resilience or lead a company or are a member of a community. there are dividends for these kind of investments. for example,, you are worried about the economy. also us of amazing resilience. one characteristic of greater resiliency is greater awareness, the capacity to take in information. information. so there are all kinds of really good investments. i will give you another example. hoboken, as city we worked with in the sandy commission had for years real problems with regard to flooding,

which was their big problem in sandy but also very little parking in downtown hoboken. what what we are doing now is building underground parking, surface level will be green space with great recreation, bike path, running trails. the trails. the parking will be garages engineered with a new duck technology that will allow those garages to be water containment overflow tanks in case of flooding. so three wins for one investment. you have one example which compares and ikea which was built new and from scratch survived the flooding and disruption. of planning. so ikea was very so ikea was very well prepared. they were close to a

coastline and often they locate insights like that around the world because they want to be in places that are attractive, but their buildings are all built with the parking at the ground level in the showrooms of at the middle level and the storage at the top level. they always put their generators in the middle. they had very little flooding. the dividend was that the dividend was that they became the community resource center because they recovered so quickly. it is where food and supplies were given out. we looked at their sales a year later, and it was clear that the dividend for them is that they had been viewed by the community, and they are a community resource and maintain that going forward.

so much of the disasters are disruption that you write about in the book has to do with water. i think the training is a case where we would be hard put to say that city was terribly resilient or prepared. that takes us to the second and third phases of building resilience,, how you recover and how you adapt and grow. it is clear that new orleans was completely unprepared, and our work actually began because we interviewed and helps new orleans build back by helping them to develop their recovery plan. walter isaacson was just year. think about think about all of the elements that made them dysfunctional, i i

great deal of poverty, having housing in areas that were totally vulnerable to floodplains, even if the levees had not broken. a very dysfunctional city government and high rates of crime. it will be ten years next years since katrina, and i was in new orleans a a couple of weeks ago. and they use their recovery, the most profound and elegant way they took over the public schools. it it is truly extraordinary. completely diversified their economy. diversity is such an important component because it gives you strength. they have been rated by forbes magazine has a cool startup innovation place. finally they directly focused on how to build

community cohesiveness, more trusting communities. >> the government part, when you talk about diversity you have a different definition that would lead to mind for many people. so actually one of the elements of resiliency is diversity, and typically we think about that as redundancy, another example from the book. many people will remember the debacle of lulu lemon yoga pants when they were so unbelievably sheer. they lost $2 billion of market cap. they lost consumer confidence. they were relying on a single manufacturer company

of the single, the single source of that fabric from a single kind of fiber. so redundancy in that sense is critical, but it also is diversity. as we have looked at the communities that flourish in the face of adversity and those that do not, often those that are more diverse have different kinds of resources to call upon. so diversity is a key feature. >> is disruption ever ultimately a good thing? >> no. unprepared for disruption is not good because then it often does become a disaster

a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. when there is a disruption, it is important to be able to utilize it effectively. we have a strong tendency because of our legislative regulations but also to try to get things back to normal it cannot be the same. build resilience. there is something that made you vulnerable. we need to use those moment to rebuild more safely and effectively whether it is a personal disruption for cities or businesses. >> what if it is a different kind of disruption like

watching a bola in a bola in west africa or bird flu fears. how do you prepare for something you have never seen? >> developing the capacity to understand the situation and respond to it. making sure that you have fallback is important even if there is not a crisis. we want to develop a set of redundant capacities. the third element is integration. do we really have transparency and integration the fourth is a critical one

we need to be able to separate out something that goes down when it does. in new york a single generator failure took down the electricity of all of lower manhattan. we are rebuilding with smart switch technology so that you can island toward the network that which is failing so that it does not take everything down which is an important capacity. the final one is adaptability. how adaptable do how adaptable do you think your city or businesses? these five characteristics put you in very good stead in good times and therefore allow. we can never know what the next thing will be.

>> but it does not sound applicable in a community that does not have the basic infrastructure to exist to begin to have a hospital, a hospital, have a trained dr. >> you know, know, we work so much in africa and do a variety of resilience building. i would argue that i would argue that equally poor countries in west africa do better. at the democratic republic of the congo did better. senegal did better. and it was because they have the ability to call on whatever capacity they had more effectively. they effectively. they had more integrated systems, far greater adaptability. and we saw, even if they had health clinics, one clinics,

one did not know what a group a mile away was doing, and that was true and how they were testing the communications patterns. they were not resilient not because they were poor but because they had not held these characteristics into their capacity. >> another example, japan, as far away as you can get from west africa, the fukushima disaster ultimately, let me start this sentence again. the fukushima disaster was made in japan because of layers of layers of problems >> i talked about and analyze fukushima deeply in the book because they had for the first time that they have ever been willing to publicly analyze what went

wrong. part of it they absolutely attribute to their culture,, not being able to be adaptable and flexible the prime minister went to the plant and started calling out rules and regulations and orders. fortunately a lot of the workers did not follow him, him, which is so counter to japanese culture. i contrast that's ability to ship that governor patrick showed because they rehearsed that all he was supposed to be was be the communicator in chief. he kept digital wild fires from spreading wildfires from spreading rumors because he exercised his

effectively, but there is a positive example, and i think that it does show the benefit of entities that did have all five characteristics. if you take toyota, lost almost 700 plants because of the earthquake or flooding or fires. 370,000 cars. they slipped from number one to number four. toyota had this amazing to five amazing culture which in the good times really enables all of their employees to be entrepreneurial, make suggestions about new ways to make the product better, to communicate with one another, a lot of redundancy in their systems. they systems. they did not fall prey to the business guru logic of only real-time production or

trying to tear down. and so they had all five characteristics. they rebounded very quickly and revitalized. lots lots of new models of cars came out of that crisis , new kinds of paints and dies that they invented. two years later two years later riled japan is reeling economically 20 at a is the number one car producer. >> isn't that the natural human instinct to not want to acknowledge risk, let alone plan for it q mac? i got interested in this idea early in my career, and i would argue that we need to a knowledge potential risk or failure in order to cope better and is something that. it is easy to learn how to

succeed. it is hard to learn how to fail. part of resilience building is learning how to fail safely and not catastrophically whether you are a person or a city or a business. that is what this that is what this is all about. so we are building core elements of strength and we are building resilience in people, institutions, and our cities. >> let's talk about institutions because you mentioned the challenges of governmental political will. does this solution always have to start with government,, or does it do better in the private sector q mac? >> it is all of the above and i would add community-based organizations. the wonderful thing is that you need leaders on the top

and the bottom. i tell a story i love so much. a group of surfers a group of surfers who met on one of the beaches and had a surf clubhouse. the community members were sort of nervous. they looked like surfers, kind of scruffy. and when the storm said they were among the first responders. and often your first responders are not the police or the firemen because they do not get there quickly enough. it is your neighbors, the people down the street. so now they are integrated into the fabric of the community in such a phenomenal way. and so leaders emerge, and that is a powerful thing. not only the appointed or elected leaders that are

important, and the benefit of that for the ongoing sense of community that we have been seeing around the world is phenomenal. >> here is the thing as you well know, know, the government does not always work. >> really? >> i just heard this. sometimes. sometimes politics does not work, and sometimes the basic drop on his knowledge knowledge. it is a climate change argument between continue to have around the world. i wonder how i wonder how you circumnavigate that to apply these principles. >> i did a congressional briefing on the hill hill on thursday around this, and as i said to members, both republicans and democrats, these crises hit republican and democratic communities alike in the united states. there is no republican hurricane and democratic flood. this could be an issue that they really could agree to.

about having multiple wins for the investment. we have spent in the united states in the last two years hundred and $50 billion on disaster recovery alone. that is $400 per household. fema estimates that for every dollar invested in resilience building we saved $4 disaster recovery. it seems to me it is a very sensible argument to make to congress, but as i said, often their legislation starts with a build back the same mandate. some of you may be from vermont. incredible flooding, horrible rainfall. they rebuilt to respond they

way better they get only reimburse building it back the same way that it was. we have to figure out how not only the mindset has to change but the legislative action has to change. they are about to authorize a new transportation bill, new highway bill. there are more or less resilient ways. building materials that absorb water more quickly and release it more slowly, pilings made from 3d printing, bend rather than break is an adaptive characteristic of resilience for the same spend why don't we just do it in a resilient

way? >> we have questions from the audience. if you have questions, please feel free. after having talked to corporate titans and community leaders to you come away optimistic that they have heard the message or pessimistic that it will take a while? >> i am incredibly optimistic because so much of our work is with government officials closer to the ground, mayors and governors, and they've really get it. whether they are republicans or democrats or independents, they have to prepare their citizens and deliver services every day. ..